Week 4 Recap: Did Gordon Prove Us Wrong? Pickens Struggles Continue, & More! (10/05 Fantasy Football Podcast)

>> This is fantasy football today from CBS Sports it's time to dominate your fantasy league now here's some combination of Adam Dave Jamie and he >> Coming up on beyond the box score Drake maize big game is he back how good is >> a 10 aerobic millen can we trust price young rest of season is a manual Wilson going to be a staple of this offense going forward Ali Gordon is he going to be a staple of this offense going forward key on Coleman is he going to be a staple if DJ Moore is out in week five we'll talk about those guys will recap last night's game players we regret not drafting I'm going to tell you that there were nine wide receivers who ran 45 or more routes in week four alone okay just think about that that's like a lot of routes for a game but it happens Zay flowers has run 45 routes with Lamar Jackson this year and he has scored 65.3 PPR fantasy points on those 45 routes like could you imagine if someone scored that in week four it's insane essentially what you're saying is that you will have to grow your beard out post-wedding for a long long time yes it's going to be if I was a rich man I'm going to be like Tevye or whatever it is I honestly think you look better with the beard so I'm excited to see it's not a three month beard you don't know that you don't know that because you never tried it you ever seen the movie the heartbreak kid now still can we pull up him with a Jacob now you never see that no idea let's let's find the image of him with the beard in heartbreak kid anyway what's up guys how we doing good that flowers that is crazy I'm putting together beyond the box score episode looking at the biggest busts in fantasy oh and he has like as many points as lad Maconkey and Mecca Buka combined in like one game and it's like those guys were drafted in the same range you know what I mean there's still many pivotal hits or misses where you could have I mean a lot of people liked both are all three of those receivers and just landed on the wrong one it's so brutal yeah I was thinking about that because one of the questions we have for today is who do you regret not drafting and that's where for me Zay flowers only of Zay flowers and one league and truth be told it was a league that I share with a co-manager I don't even know if I would have drafted him because yeah I liked Maconkey and I didn't really draft Tenerobic Millen either it just made the wrong choices at that part in the draft and some of it not you know really within like it's not all that Maconkey's fault it's obviously not all mecca Buka's fault I also think about Bayl Tutan you know Bayl Tutan vs. Jadarian Price is one that I just sweated I was like oh I can't figure out who I like here and then ultimately I was Tutan originally and then I was like I think I like Price better I think Tutan has more to overcome and that's just like a horrific mistake and man the things the logic can be there it's not always your fault sometimes sports happens you know but these decisions they they could be they could really change your fantasy outcomes it's such big ways yeah Dan uh yeah let's uh three and one first place how did it say we're combined what seven and one here as a podcasting trio here with the Chiefs and the Giants I don't I mean look I was in the dumps after the Jackson Dart injury I couldn't really come back from in this season will always be bitter sweet for me because I'll always be thinking what if uh but it's fun to watch a team that actually can compete in the fourth quarter that actually is good coaching and good special teams and all the little things that help you in football games they may be beating bad teams every teams of bad team they're like who's good in the NFL so like beat who you play keep it going and to be quite frank outside of the Cowboys I'm not that worried about the Giants division I think the Eagles are trash football teams uh the Eagles the Eagles are missing like 10 starters yesterday oh my god they get to finally complain about injuries what about every other fan base that said that over the years and the Eagles fans have bashed them for the all the all the crap I heard about Eli Manning we played with those all right are all offensive lines all right all right all right we're getting off the rails this is how to reel me back in this is what I'm gonna look like in three months after the season that good I honestly don't mind that but the hair you don't you can still get haircuts by the way it's just the beard that I think was the bet with with he's it was so before we get into last night's game I have a great team name okay inspired by our email is the email exchange is about Oli Gordon uh Oli G show yeah is that not original no clue I mean no it's not original at all you thought this was great you tell you emailed us in two hours for the show like I can't wait to tell you guys this deep name I thought oh I mean it's better than oil level lava of course I mean that's your worst of all time but you're you're pinning you know you're at least you're going for a reference that people will understand but I mean it's not great it's great it's not great I feel like I stole it unintentionally from people so I'm sorry if you already had that one uh it's the originality Caroline of 32 Detroit 26 fun game here Bryce Sean yeah with uh three good games out of four struggled against Cleveland but he comes back with 25.5 fantasy points a season high 44% of his passes were in under 2.5 seconds that he still you know made big made plays down field and this team passes they are I feel like fifth and pass rate they're fifth and pass rate and they've only had one bad game defensively you know they gave up 59 points week one then three then 21 then 26 they were playing with a lead in this game they just they like to pass Jacob what are you seeing from the panthers uh the panthers are super fun to watch right now um this game in particular was funny because they had this massive height advantage um I heard this from uh Derek class and on the athletic he said that on average the wide series and tight ends were like five and a half inches taller than the DB's Detroit in this game um and it's just this funny team that they've they've put around Bryce obviously with the the high disparity here um they do a lot of really cool stuff they kind of remind me of the chiefs where they're uh like mitigating the the tackle concerns that they have right with a lot of um like pocket manipulation um different ways of like setting up roll outs and stuff like that for Bryce Young getting the ball out quick um because they're I mean in week three they really really struggled to protect um they give up really a bunch of pressure a bunch of quick pressure and in this game even to get say in Hutchinson like they did a pretty dang good job of just um setting him up to get the ball out quick a few times you see like Jack Campbell just get directly downhill on that right away you know what I mean where they try to move the pocket and it doesn't quite work um but generally speaking I think these plays have worked really well for them in this game it was pretty much like hyper concentrated on Ted or McMillan of course um and so they're they're just like one of the most fun teams to watch right now the super high pass rate over expectation and everything and then if they do get the lead then we can see a big um big trooper game like we saw here where he's getting like all the work and it actually amounted to like a bunch of fantasy points so it feels really good and then the volume is like pretty much all concentrated like two or three guys too especially with Coke around yeah I anticipate Coke are coming back after their week five by so you know what would you tell the Teterola McMillan manager try to try to sell them for something massive or just hold out I would just hold I mean we have a decent stretch even dating back to last year where it's been I guess concerning he hasn't been produced McMillan hasn't produced quite to the way that we've seen or that we think that he can when Coke has been healthy Coke is really really good but his actual target shares haven't dropped off in a super significant way within that split um I think more than likely we'll see good days ahead for him he's just so good and him and Bryce Young are on the same page um I think him and Koker and Bryce are all and Hubbard are all positioned really well for fantasy I would just hold if I had them I think to me what's most interesting about watching this team is last year Jacob and I spent a lot of time on beyond the box score evaluating the film of this offense and they're got to a point in season where they pass protected so poorly specifically had a right guard that we kept talking about I think it was Anthony Bradford that might have been the Seahawks this was another version of that that they had to completely change their game plan and become this run first team with Rico Dowdell this year it seems like that's not the case they can do what they want to do at least outside of the Cleveland game and I believe a big reason for that is Bryce Young he's seeing the field so much better he's getting the ball quicker and it's not just like quick game quick throws around line of scrimmage he's getting the ball out into the intermediate range of the field and I think he has I saw the stat earlier something like some of the most 20 yard plus past 20 plus yard passes in the NFL right now and with him seeing the field the way he's seeing and his ability to diagnose things fast you saw it on the touch down early in the game it in some ways mitigates their offensive line because that is somewhat of a concern for me they lost their first round pick Monroe Freeling last night I don't know the extent that injury they have to go to stone foresight that right tackle that could be a major issue if he has to play a lot in my personal opinion they're going to get a hell of tackle because as they start potentially with moat with moat and coming back eventually yeah I think one other tackle but yeah I don't know the the timeline on those but regardless if Bryce Young is seeing the field the way he's seeing it right now it's not going to matter as much because he's getting the ball out fast and he's attacking intermediate and vertical areas of the field by diagnosing it pre snap and he's always thrown with in my opinion with good touch and when he's throwing with anticipation he's a deadly quarterback because in my opinion he has the ability to throw the football with touch and accuracy in these moments and that aerobic millen we'll talk about him a little bit more later in our regret section my guy is he a good football player and it's just like Drake London with him it's it's so hard to defend him all right what do we think about the Lions you know Jamison Williams with of the really good game six catches 102 yards on eight targets. But this is a 15.7% target share for James and Williams. That's as high as since week one, 10 per, you know, week one was 20, where are you James and Williams? It was target share was 23% then 10.5, then 12.9, then 15.7%. So, you know, good game, but I don't know if it was an encouraging game for him. He also dropped a perfectly thrown deep ball up the sideline that would have been a huge play. Anyway, that's maybe the most interesting guy in the team because I think we kind of know what we're doing with the others. For sure, 136 catchable area yards for James and Williams in this game. So, that's a second game with over 100. There's only a handful of players who have two of those games this year. He's seventh in the league in catchable area yards on the year. So, I would think it would get better, right? I mean, it comes down to him, basically. I feel like I've been pretty stubborn about him in my life. I do a rest of season rankings update every week and every week people want me to push players above Jamo because he's not producing right now. It's like, I think you see why in this game, why he's worth holding on to. Even with the current setup, I think he could produce. And then obviously, we know the upside is massive if he goes down. To me, the biggest winner Detroit this year continues to be same Laporta. And I just think we finally saw it come to fruition here in this game, but the setup is so nice for Laporta to run a ton of routes and get a ton of volume. Obviously, we know with, like, Sun God and Jumeir Gibbs, like, who they are. So, they're the most valuable players in fantasy, basically. But like, Laporta is not seen that way, really. And there's a bunch of Titans who are out producing him really on the year or before this week. They were at least, and I feel like you somebody you could get in trades, maybe still can get in trades. Just running this many routes that Titan is going to lead to a ton of fantasy points. All right. Yeah, Jacob's right on that. Yep, go ahead. Yeah, Panthers 32, Detroit 26, that'll wrap it up. What's coming up on Beyond the Box score this week? Who wants to do it? Raise your hand if you want to do the promo. Jacob's the promo guy. All right. Jacob's the promo king. Yeah. So, Dan and I do our signature show every Tuesday where we get to dig into film. And there's a lot to dig into for sure. Like, we just have so many new coaches and everything this year. So the first four weeks, like we're just trying to sink our teeth into as much of that as possible. So that's on Tuesday. We do start sit on Thursday. And then the other thing is the rest of season rankings updates that I do every Wednesday. I think are really good if you have time to really dig into what's happening around the league. So, that's for like, I mean, mostly for deeper dynasty players and stuff like that. But anybody who's interested in that will have time stamps on there. So you can go to the specific team or player that you're interested in or whatever I cover every play in the league. Let's go through the news and notes. Lamar Jackson has an ankle injury, Marcus Mario to re-entered his MCL. So he almost certainly didn't see a timeline, but I wouldn't expect him to play quarterback this week. It could be Jaden Daniels, though, against the New York Giants. Tyson Baygent is going to start for the Bears. The one game that I haven't watched any tape of that I really want to is Bears Jets. I do not understand how the Jets ran, I think, 32 plays. Just had the ball for 17 minutes and 15 seconds, horrific offensive performance for them. And also, yeah, I think Khalif Raymond ran about half the routes. Luther Burton ran about half the routes. It was a weird game and I didn't think Baygent said this with Heath yesterday. I didn't think Baygent played as well as his numbers, but I don't know if you guys have had a chance to watch any of that Bears game, but no. No, not yet. Yeah, that'll be a good one for this week. Yeah, it's just too much to watch. It's like 90 plays on the air. So I was like, I'll clearly just watch that tonight or something. Yeah, yeah. They had the ball for two hours forever. Kyle Menongai, I didn't see any update on his thumb, but we're keeping an eye on that. Sequan Barclay haven't got an update on the hamstring yet. And Chris Brooks ankle injury for the Packers Kyle Yuschek has a knee injury. Looks like Yuschek, at least this is a very important fullback for the Niners. He avoided a serious injury, but he's going to miss a little bit of time. They are at Seattle this week. Huge game Niners at Seahawks wide receiver. We got Rishi Rice leaving in the first quarter. We got DJ Moore with the shoulder injury. Tyree kill looks like he's going to sign in the next few days. Where do you guys want Tyree kill to go? Chiefs. Yeah, it seems like chiefs. I guess is where he's gone. Yeah. He was pretty good last year. He really he was good. He was had a gruesome injury. So I don't know what to expect. But definitely I mean, he's a guy to be the number one waiver wire guy this week, right? I sure a manual Wilson could be could be that. Yeah, but who didn't scoop him up? He's only like 64% roster, believe it or not. Really? Yeah. I'm going to get him in any leaks this week and when I tried to. Yeah, I don't know who else it would be. It's not a great waiver week. So yeah, Tyree kill's going to be up there. Other news. Jamar Chase and T Higgins are both hurt. Jamar Chase has a concussion. T Higgins and a doctor injury. They're at Miami this week. Then they have a buy. So we'll see who's that who's available. Pat Bryant ankle injury. Lad McConkey left with a foot injury. Mac Holland's calf injury. Emily neighbors does have this shoulder issue that popped up again in this game. He came. He left the game. Came back. But I guess we'll consider him healthy, but playing through something. Okay, we'll take a break. When we come back, we'll look at some of the numbers, the snap counts, the trends that you need to know, who the running back rotation for the chargers, what you need to know about that. And a holding call that I looked that like seven times and still haven't been able to find that negated a long touchdown. We'll be right back on fantasy football today. You know, Dan losing weight can feel a lot like getting so close to the end zone and then losing the ball right before you cross the line. Winning the game is great, but maintaining that success season after season, that's where the real challenge lies. That's right. So say noom. The leading behavior change company pairs GLP one medication with behavioral tools, bite size daily lessons and coaching to help you build sustainable habits. It's like having a full coaching staff to help you lose weight and keep it off, even if you stop the meds. The noom GLP one program starts at $39 and medication can be delivered to your door in as little as seven days. Get a real game plan for lasting success. Start your GLP one journey today at noom.com. That's n-o-o-m dot com. Noom. Lose for keeps. Initial one month subscription from $39 plus tax and $99 plus tax per month thereafter. Cost of medication not included. Final pricing depends upon program selection. All right, welcome back. Let's go through some of the numbers that we noticed over the weekend or in Sunday's games. This is where I throw it to Jacob to start things off. What do you got for us Jacob? Number man. Yeah. The jets play in total has to be pointed out. It's the second fewest of any team in any game dating back to 2000. So last year we actually did have that Raiders game against the Chiefs where they only had 30 plays. But the jets with 32 is the second lowest. So that's relevant for all of the baseline counting stats. Like Kenyansodic actually had a 40% first retarget rate in this game, but like you didn't really notice that much, right? Because they barely ran any plays. So yeah, Sedique was one of four titans who had a first retarget rate of 40% or higher week four, which is really an unusually high number for reference trimic bride generally leads in that stat by a wide margin with like a 33% rate. And then it drops off to like 20, 25% is like the next highest guys. And we four McBride, Sedique, Isaiah likely and TJ Hawkinson all had a first read rate of 40% or higher. Likely's lowest first read rate on the year in any game is 25%. It's been at least 32% to every other game. So that's very, very high for a tight end. Neighbors had a 32% rate in week four as well. So it was lower than likely's. And neighbors seem to be back. Like you mentioned, like you did get banged up visibly and came off for a little bit. But something I've been tracking is his route depth and the way they're using Mike neighbors. In this game, it was more like what we had seen in the past from him. So it seemed like he was healthy. I'm curious what your read on it is Dan or Adam Giants fans. Go ahead. He looked fully healthy to me. I've actually came out of the game with the injury. It's just something he's going to manage all year that shoulder injury. But I thought he looked phenomenal on his touchdown up the seam had a great release on the Theo Johnson touchdown and should have could have called another touchdown. But he he went the Theo and that was fine. James. He's going to take those chances. Still haven't seen like the true like underneath drag route that he like houses or like turns into a post catch. Still didn't seen that burst yet. But the releases off the line of scrimmage have been phenomenal. And he made the play of the game. I thought the catch of the game where James Winston kind of just threw an effort ball up to him. And he just adjusted midair behind him to catch a ball and high point it. So to me, he looks pretty good. And I think some of the panicking we had on him was probably a little overdone based on the weather. The Giants played with last week and based on the fact, which was fair at the time, which was a concern like Will Nagy and Harbaugh tried to manage him and make James become a quarterback. He's not. And we saw from week two and three, like you really can't do that with James. If you're going to start him, you have to let him be James. And if he is going to be James, that means 250 and 300. Or I'm sorry, in three TDs type games with a lot of shot plays. And that's really good for neighbors as well from a fantasy standpoint. I know. Totted who almost got to that 40% range was Colson Loveland, had a 35. Oh, yeah. First three target rate in week four. So it was high as rate before this was 14%. In any game, it's been 11, 14 and 10% and then it was 35% this week. The rates have really been all over the place for the Bears. If you're watching on YouTube, you can see on the screen here, like Roman dudes. at a 22% rate. And this one, Luther Burton's rate was only 17%. And so this is the percentage of the team's first three targets. His lowest rate before that burn was 28%. It was all the way down to 17%. So it's fluctuated. Game to game pretty wildly. Colleague Freyman's rate has been as high as 33% but was down to 9% in this game. So maybe this signals a desire to get Loveland more involved. I think honestly though the more troubling data point here and the more important one is that his route rate, Loveland's route rate continues to be low. His route participation rate hasn't been above 70% in any of the past three games. So he was tied in 19 and the percentage of the team's drop-axe where he ran around in week four. They're struggling with their left tackle spot and he's been asked to block more as a result. And just running routes is the most important signal for tight ends in terms of scoring fantasy points. So I don't know if we're out of the woods with Loveland yet based off of this one data point in terms of the first three targets. I'm going to talk about him more on the box score when I dig into the busts. I do think he's run pretty cold in terms of like the expected fantasy points. The target that he's got. And obviously everybody who was watching Red Zone some come very close to scoring touchdown, but not get it. Yeah, it's been pretty rough. Two in a row. Two weeks in a row he's almost at a touchdown, Loveland. And I think with another man's tough to, you know, try to pick up on patterns with the Bears. They've had three quarterbacks in four games. Right. So you don't really know what the what the tendencies are, I guess. And I think it could just be frustrating for this team. This hope that they for enough point. I mean, look, obviously, if you listen to the show, you know, I have a lot of Clief Raymond. Now I went pretty big on him on waivers this past week. But I hope for everyone else to say that Clief Raymond kind of fades away because if Clief Raymond stays a big deal, it's going to be really annoying. If he doesn't, then we'll have more consistent production from the guys that we actually drafted have production from. I'm an unselfish guy like that. I will tell you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. A few other things wanted to point out. One was Kyron Williams is getting tons of targets. He has 20 targets over the past two games. He has back to back games with 40 or more ariards. So he's actually getting targeted down the field, which is unusual for running back. It's unusual for him. He's never had a game about 40 ariards before the season. Now he's done in back to back games. So they've obviously been down a few pass catchers and they're leaning more on him, which is interesting to me. He was running back one unexpected fantasy points in week four, which is the fantasy points data is modeled that accounts for where all the touches are coming from. If he's going to play this type of role, I think the game scripts have favored him a little bit and have boosted these numbers a little bit. Obviously, injuries and stuff too. But this seems like it might be an evolution where he's not just out there for passing down, but actually getting targeted. Whereas in the past, he's just not really. He's passed protecting a lot and he's running routes sometimes, but not getting very many targets. Yeah. Well, the Rams, you know, I think staffers back to back games with 50 or more passes right around there anyway. And we just didn't expect that from them. You know, they're supposed to have Aaron Donald and Miles Garrett. And they're supposed to be this dominant team, but they're two and two. They're almost one and three. So I guess things, I guess I could say things could look very different in like a month, but I think that's fair. But but the fact is like, Corms really not getting a lot of carries. Kyron is being treated like like the number one guy. Yeah. You know, he scores. I mean, that's he just has a propensity to score. He's going to be freaking awesome. I wish I had more Kyron. Another regret. Another player had a really high first three target rate this week. Unusually high was Taekwam Thornton. So Rashi Rice missed most of the game. And Thornton had a 35% first three target rate, which was by far as high as rated the season. He has the highest pass or rating win targeted as the first read in the NFL this year, nearly perfect 156.3. He's average 17.4 yards per first three target compared that to 5.8 for Xavier Worthy. I don't really know where these targets are going to go with the Chiefs. Like he was a really important part of their offense. And I don't know if they have anyone else who can really do what he does. Worthy, you would like to think can feel that role, but it just hasn't ever really looked like that. So I'm very curious. Maybe this is Tyreeke where Tyreeke lands. And he just steps in and does it. I mean, I think of George Giddle right away when I think of Tyreeke. And could he just be the outlier that is able to look like himself even after a massive injury, maybe. But if he's not, I don't know what that's going to mean for this offense. I think having an actual field stretching presence is really important, right? Like there's a lot of players who benefit from space in this offense. And it could it could get kind of congested if we get back to like what we've seen in the past from the Chiefs and not being able to attack down the field. I know y'all know that I've been very high on like Cyrus Allen. I don't know if he's going to get that opportunity. Like Jalen Roy was clearly played ahead of him this week when Rashi Rice went down and that's been the case all year. He's clearly been ahead of Cyrus Allen. Allen barely played. But I do think he's like there one hope of like somebody who can beat man coverage. Now the Taiwan's gone. Is this rookie receiver? But we just haven't seen him get those opportunities yet. So are you worried about my homes? Yeah, a little bit. I mean, you're saying like for fantasy purposes. Yeah, sure. I mean, I think out of his mind right now, he looks right. But I think he's playing so well. He's going to run and everything. But like between lack of a deep threat and then also the tackle situation scares me. They've been able to do a pretty good job with these rollouts and everything of avoiding that being a problem. They've been really, really efficient on these rollout plays. And they lead the league in terms of the number of plays that they're doing this where they're like resetting the pocket. But I do think devences might catch on to that with more and more film. And it's just, I don't know, it's almost kind of a gimmicky offense again now. So we'll see. There are next three games after the buy week. Chargers at the Seahawks at the Broncos. It could be tough. But who knows? I mean, it doesn't seem like there's any defense that really stops people right now. Maybe Minnesota unless you're Dolly G show, of course. Yeah. The last that I had was on Cardinal Tate. I tried it on the high note, but I don't know how much we really believe in the Titans being able to sustain this. But Seven Ties first read Targaryt in the NFL on the year belongs to Cardinal Tate, which is honestly pretty shocking for a rookies first four games. I mean, it's higher than like, I mean, well, everybody except for six players, it's extremely high. Three players had a first read Targaryt above 50% this week. It was CD-Lam, Tatarabung-Millen, and Cardinal Tate. It a 44% Targaryt share, 76% of the area. It's like he's, it's not like the Wondale Robinson scam thing that we thought it might be with Brian Dave Hall. It's like this is our actual wide receiver one, which I do think is really relevant because that's, we never, we didn't have any proof of that coming into the league, right? We didn't see him do that at all in college. And I mean, to be fair, it's the Titans, and I guess they're just, they don't really have a lot of else, but it's still meaningful to be able to do that, to be able to run an offense through a rookie receiver who's, you know, getting a lot of downfield targets too. I've been really encouraged by that. Yeah, it just, can we get Cam Ward to just throw some touchdowns? Cam Ward in his career has a 2.7% touchdown rate. That is just awful. Gosh, I did see touchdowns. It's crazy. I want to see that game though. That's one of the games I want to talk about for tomorrow, Jacob, because I felt from watching the tape a week three, giant Titans, that, that Tate looked unbelievable, and we talked about that on last week's show. Really? It was creating separation. Yeah, Tate, I'm sorry, Tate. Yeah, we're not worried, obviously. And then clearly, the Titans watched that tape, and we're like, all right, Cam, look at these plays. He's wide open, figure out how to get this ball and just like lock into this. And that's how it felt on those plays. They were like, first read, like you said, Jacob, that might just be a thing moving forward to like make things easier for Cam Ward. You can just have him rely more on these first read targets to carnaltate. A guy who's winning the routes very easily. So I kind of love Tate moving forward. We'll see. I don't expect the Titans offense to look as bad as it did the first three weeks. It think it'll get better and better and double scheme. But it does rely on Ward, like you said, creating a little bit more. And he's really struggle, but their old line hasn't been as bad as people thought they would be. That's another thing that's plus for them. Who's your favorite? Let's go to the Cleveland game from Thursday, right? Who's your favorite rookie wide receiver? Right now, a rest of season, or at least for the immediate future. Oh, I would go with this. Wait, what are you asking Tate versus the Browns versus any other? I mean, is there anyone I'm forgetting any other rookie receiver? I mean, we're still weeks away, according to report today from Tyson. And he could be a big, big one, but that's still more speculation than anything. It's basically Boston concept, he own lemon, I guess, um, and Tate. Cyrus. Oh, Chris or Malci fields just kidding. Boston. It looks pretty good. Boston's got some real, really encouraging stuff. I mean, Boston is like Boston. I lost a lot. It's really good. Yeah, I just favorite target, right? So it's close between you can make a case for any of the three of them. I think the hardest case to make just based on production would be conception, but the arrow seems to be pointing up for conception. I think I'm going to go with the, I'm going to go with the Tate. Tate, I think you have to be like Boston. Yeah. Okay. All right. I'll give you a few numbers here. Nico Collins only ran 40% of the routes. And he's still at a huge game. So good. Let's go. Antonio Williams ran less than half the routes. He had a big touchdown call back, but if McClurens out again, you want to count on Antonio Williams, maybe Antonio. Williams for rookie to keep an eye on too. Yeah. Keep an eye on. Yeah. Dalton Concade, Dave talked about this yesterday. Dalton Concade only ran 54.1% of the routes. That's, uh, what's going on there? That's not good. Yep. Um, Collie frame and I already mentioned 55% of the routes. That's two games around 75% for him. Two games around 57% route rate for Collie frame and Luther burden was in the 50s as well and route rate yesterday. The Jets ran 32 plays, but Braille and Alan played 94% of the snaps. Uh, the chargers, this was from ESPN. The chargers 13% pass block win rate was their lowest in the 10 seasons that ESPN has been tracking has block win rate. At one point, the chargers had four rookie offensive linemen. They had three guys leave with injuries yesterday, including both of their tackles. And how did their rotation at running back play out? Basically, all three of them, Hampton, Videll and Mitchell played the same amount of snap. They all played about 35% of the snaps. They all ran 11 to 13 routes. Keaton Mitchell played the most on third down. Hampton and Mitchell had nine and 10 carries respectively. Come on, he by Dell had five carries. He had a touchdown catch. The fact that both of them, that two of them scored a touchdown is, is wonderful, but this is obviously a fantasy nightmare. We cannot have a three headed monster where none of them get more than what? Well, actually, what's 15 touches for Keaton Mitchell, which is great, but you can't really expect that. They ran a lot of plays. All things in nightmare. Yeah, it sucks. And now, like, all these offensive line injuries well. And then I don't know, maybe the broadcast was better than the all 22 version, but I didn't see a hold on basal toot and 44 year touchdown run. And I didn't see a replay, like, sometimes they show a guy like grabbing a jersey, but I was like, where was the penalty? So that was disappointing. And I was looking at that because I want to see what the Bangle's run defense is all about. First two weeks looked like they had a really good right defense. Then they got destroyed by Jalen Warren. And then they really got eaten up by basal toot. And even though the numbers aren't as good as they could have been because of that holding penalty, because next week, who do they got, Dan? Respect. They got the Ali G show. Okay. Okay. So I want to see what you know, I watched the Ali G show, but I don't have any quotes for me to remember anything. It's probably something we should be saying on air anyway. That's what you could quote from. It's very, it was very funny. It was, it was my least favorite of the three characters from the original Ali G show. You thought he was the least funny. Well, I liked Borat. There was the, there was the other guy, the gay guy. I don't remember Bruno, Borat and Bruno and Ali G. And I, I don't know. I think Ali G was my favorite because he was so stupid and they took him seriously. Like that they had to debate once about, like, there was a panel and he was talking about math. And he's like, what is three plus three plus three? I just remember that clip. Like, that was a great one. But times 25, he's like, no, you can easily do this with the calculator. I don't remember that. Anyway. Okay. So we're going to take a break and talk about our big topics. Before we go to break, question from the chat from Wisco Disco. Dan, not a single badger decoration in your background anymore. Fake fan. He's not wrong. I need to get my badger decorations back up. It's more of a case of me being too lazy. But look, the badger's baby, we're back. That's all I can really say. Colton Joseph still a little spectacle. But he does make great running plays and has occasional good throws. We just blew out a team. We'd be Penn State the week before, which unfortunately now looks like a less important and interesting win. But just feels good to have a team that's not horrible again from Wisconsin. Would you say, Dan, as a fan that you are fickle? What? Isn't Luke fickle their coach? Yeah. What did you say fickle? As a fan that you're fickle? No. This is a bad dad. Let's move on. Okay. Jacob is like looking up stats right now. Not even big. We were back on fantasy football today. Big topics today. John Kean says players in week four, gold or fools, gold, Drake May, Teterol, Mcmillan. Okay. We think gold there. Emanuel Wilson, Olli Gordon. We're going to get to him in a different topic and Kean Coleman. So the three really that to focus on here are Drake May, 32.2 fantasy points at Buffalo. Emanuel Wilson, 27 fantasy points against the chargers and Kean Coleman with a huge game. Six catches 116 yards and a touchdown on seven targets against the Patriots. And he ran 94% of the routes in the second half with DJ Moore on the sideline here. So, all right. How do we go? Just one, two, three. And then we'll get into it more in depth. Gold or fools, gold, Drake May. You know how we feel about Drake May? Well, I'm gaining more fools, gold. I want to see it. I'm gaining more gold. Okay. He's running. I mean, only the Mark Jackson has more rushing yards and Drake May this year. I think he's basically there. He's basically doing what you want, except that he keeps turning the ball over. I never felt from watching the tapes, especially even the Jaguars game. Like he was just, oh no, his arm shot. He's gone. I just felt like he was still making insanely good throws, but also just so many mistakes. And he wasn't trusting his line. And like this week, the chism touchdown was the exact same throw he made on the move, rolling right. The Holland's last week and Holland just bobbled it and dropped it. So like, he needs some plays from his guys. He's going to get AJ Brown back soon. The rapport is continuing to improve the Romeo dobs. He's still running, which is so important to his fantasy value in the first place. I'll say gold in the sense if I think he'll be a startable quarterback for you. I don't think he's getting back to last year's pace of like QB1, QB2, QB3. But I still think he'll be a startable QB1 within weeks. And for sure, once AJ Brown is back. Okay. Yeah. This upcoming week against the Raiders, I'm not sure. Raiders have a really good pass rush. And I think they do have a good defense in general. So, yeah. Okay. So we get into drake May a little bit more, but a manual Wilson, gold or fool's gold? He's good. I mean, neither, but if I have to lead toward one gold until sharpen A is back. Yeah. Okay. Which could be one sharpen A is back. That gold is turning into bronze or whatever is next. Silver. Silver. Now it's probably worse. Like, you know, silver's next. It can't be as good as silver. It has to be like worse than bronze. I don't think he plays one sharpener. That's what I mean. Like once, no, he'll play as little, but like he's done one sharpener is back. So sharpen A is going to be back. I mean, what's the point of a manual Wilson? None really. But they'll still give him some random touches. Like, sharpen A is not going to come back with a full workload. I don't think. I mean, I think the plan would be him and price. sharpen A is going to be back before price. Yeah. sharpen A has to be back before price the way I understand it. They opened up his three week practice window. Right. So I and if you look at sharpen A and Wilson and you just did like a blind, you know, look at these guys, take away their names, look at their advanced metrics, look at their yards per carry, their big play rate. Who would be better? I think maybe Wilson or at least no one would really know. sharpen A sharpen A has some great advanced stats to him as far as like not limiting negative runs. He's one of the best in the NFL since he entered better. I don't think he's better than a manual Wilson at limiting negative runs. I looked at it this morning. It was over a much, much bigger sample size. I mean, Wilson is a successor at machine like he does have really good advanced stats for what it's worth. sharpen has been better for fantasies over a much bigger sample size. Like I don't trust it as much from somebody like Wilson who's doing it over a small sample size. Definitely a smaller sample size. But, you know, sharpen A has been really good whenever he's had the lead role when other, you know, when Kenneth Walker has been out, but he's not in the red zone. He's not explosive runner. Neither is Wilson. They're both, I mean Wilson was used as Wilson was used as sharpen A when price was healthy. So right. So Jacob, you seem to think when sharpen A comes back and price comes back, Wilson will be on the sideline? Yeah. I mean, that's my guess, right? I mean, they love sharpen A. They absolutely love him. Like he's, Mike McDonnell talks about that all the time. They drafted him around to all they've done is make him really relevant when he's healthy. And then, yeah, he's running back eight out of 33 qualifiers and fantasy points per touch since entering the NFL ahead of guys like Breesall, Derek Henry, Jonathan Taylor, Say, Quan Barkley, Kenneth Walker, one of the same team has averaged more. But when you are the goal line back, that's going to help, right? Yeah. Sure. Yeah. For sure. I mean, all those guys are the goal line back except for Kenneth Walker and Breesall. And he is good at avoiding negative play, but he has a 21% rate, Zach Sharbinate, 21% of his carries have gone for zero or negative yards. And for the manual Wilson, that is, oh, I'm looking at his receiving numbers. Sorry about that. 21% for Sharbinate and for Wilson, 20.8%. So basically the same higher avoid rate is a manual Wilson by 3%. But it is all much smaller sample sizes. You're right about that. Explosive play rate, 5.7% for Wilson, 7.5% for Sharbinate. All right. And then the last one was Keon Coleman. And I think it's easy to say Fools gold for Coleman if DJ Moore plays. But this is another injury for DJ Moore. I'm thinking, let's just assume he, let's just assume he misses week five. I'm not saying he will, but in that scenario at the Rams, gold or Fools gold for Keon Coleman. I think he's a great pick up. I mean, I feel like he's looked a lot better this year. Yeah. It's interesting. interesting. I wrote about this last night for the site. And it was like last year Dave was this was his guy. This was his breakout pick. He went to camp. So all the joint practice talked to at the time. It was their OC Joe Brady. And it felt like it was all there for Coleman. And I think his confidence got shaken a little bit at the beginning of last season. And ultimately the offense just didn't really emerge the way we expected to from a forward passing game. I thought last year, at least everything was kind of designed off the play action in the boot. This year, there are definitely a more forward thinking offense passing wise. And he looks way more confident to me. Always had the talent. I was a big fan of his coming out the way he ran the gauntlet drill. It's just the GPS test at time versus the 40 yard dash time. And I think if he's playing confident, he can be a really good player for the bills. So I with Josh Allen, I think it's probably more so a fantasy asset when more is out. If more is back in the lineup, that's tough to, but with more out. Yeah. I believe in it. I'm not as much of a fan of Colman. I just think he's too slow. I mean, I didn't see him get a lot of separation except on his last target, which was at the time, look like it was going to be the game winning touchdown. He made a great move. Burn the defender. Allen through a frozen rope. I won't say what Tom Brady would call it. Frozen rope into the end zone for a touchdown. But other than that, I mean, he really like just, I just don't think he gets any separation. He's like, honestly, it's like Marvin Harrison out there. He had a 34% slot rate in this game, which I like. I think it's possible. They're starting to figure out like how to use them and that they don't necessarily have to have them on the outside because of cushting and I'm blanking on the guy's name from the chargers. Paul Marl. Yeah. Peace missile. I love it. Yeah. All right. Anything else you guys want to say about Drake May? I kind of hurried that along. Guess where Drake May ranks in highly accurate throw rate on throws of 10 or more air yards with no pressure out of 29 qualifiers. Oh, good question. What is it? 10 or more air yards. No pressure. Highly accurate throws. I'm going to say he rates. Third. Last year, maybe. He ranks 25th out of 29. He's missing those. He played great yesterday. I mean, he did great football, dropping it in the bucket. I thought he was awesome. It's ended with his legs, but I am nervous about him against the Raiders. I really believe in the Raiders defense. I mean, they, they got after Patrick Mahomes and they don't blitz. They get pressure with four and this is a Patriots offensive line with some questions. So we'll see how he did it. It's fair to wonder based on the numbers if this bill's defense is going to be bad. I think they're around 27th in EPA or something of that nature. I saw a stat for this earlier. Don't have the exact number in the 20s. I have a lot of faith in Jim Leonard and what he can do defensively from his dramatic standpoint from watching it at Wisconsin. I don't know if it's translating yet the NFL game. So I wonder if that we'll see that this week if Drake may kind of comes back to earth. I saw that Drake may had a pass rating of 56 within this split throws of 10 or more air yards with no pressure. I'm like, that's got to be the worst. Justin Herbert's is 23.1. Oh, man. And so also with with me, Christian Benford and everyone cornered back for the bills was out. And I'll only played 32% of the snaps. He left with an injury. That's an important defensive lineman for the bills. So not a great bill's defense and banged up to boot. He did play great though. Okay. Here's Matt's question. Who are some players that you regret not drafting? I already said for me, Zae Flowers, Teterol McMillan. I just, I think I kind of botched the three, four turn with too much too much Maconkey and DJ Moore, you know, like it just, it just has, it's just so annoying. It's like, listen, if you're on my freaking fantasy team and you want to get hurt, get hurt. Stop doing it in the first quarter of the second. Like, not doing it in the middle of the game. I'm getting a real frustrated like just like we're all getting killed by these. Oh, it's killing me. It's killing me and so many. It's killing everybody though. It's not just us too, Adam. It's been a problem for. It's only me. Adam, would you say that's an eye for an eye? Is that a joke about my walkie eye? Yes. I still have a bad eye. Yeah. Still have the eye. All your problems tend to linger longer than they should. You know, I haven't been sick. I haven't been sick in a while and you have been. So, yeah, no, but it got to get over it faster than you do. Okay. Oh, I have trouble getting over things like not drafting Zae Flowers. What are some of your regrets then? I would say you named a few of them. My biggest regret is I love CD land preseason didn't come away with him in a single auction except for the one we did with your friends at the end because I was just like I have to do it. And I think the reality was I was hoping and wanting to buy him at the price of where he was ranked ADP. And the reality is I should have scrapped that and been like, this guy can clearly be a top five top six fantasy player, which he and now obviously is and it seemed so obvious now. And I think Jacob, you made a great case for him at the end of draft season when we did our ADP value tiers. And I just wasn't able to at that point get him. So that's a big regret of mine. Lam, I think is just an obvious league winner this year and should have known that should have been obvious. The other regret of mine that I ended up fixing a little bit at the end was Chubah Hubbard. I kind of had the feeling that we were overrating Jonathan Brooks the entire process talked about that throughout, but didn't do anything about it. And what is there to do about it? There was something obvious to do about it. It was by Chubah Hubbard at an insanely decreased and depressed cost. I kind of avoided the whole thing in Carolina. This is similar to Teteromic Millen, another big draft. Forget a mine, but those are the two that stand out the most to me, specifically because I felt like there was a way for me to fix how I was feeling and I just didn't lean into it enough. I think one other one would probably be not fully buying into the Zay Flowers hype and thinking he was overpriced similar thing with Parker Washington and just too much hype from Van his analyst. And I was like, I don't want to pay this price, but the reality is the price was worth paying on both of those players. Adam, Dan and I did an auction draft together and it was complete chaos. I was doing all sorts of stuff that was like stressing Dan out, including just buying Zay Flowers without really asking our team. Our team's like, perfect. Yeah, it's like, we've had a like every single thing. And of course, we're just like my young was super lucky of a pick, but we hit it. I'm really randomly for like no money or anything. It's going to be for now. No, it doesn't matter. I love that though. That's awesome. Yeah. Hey, I don't know if Jacob, you want to go through your regrets. I do have one thing. A lot of the same stuff. Go ahead. Sorry. I didn't mean to go. No, I was going to tease like I'm going to disagree with Dan on one thing that he said, but go ahead. Well, who are you? Okay. Not drafting a lot of the same stuff. I don't have any Hubbard either. Hubbard. I guess you could have gone there. I was worried about the offensive line. So I don't really have any panthers outside of like dynasty. I already have a ton of them in dynasty. So I didn't really draw from any of them this year. But also Hubbard. It's been kind of a lucky run out. I think where it's like both backup running backs got hurt. I actually think Trevor HN is pretty good Travis HN's little brother. But they both been out. So it's been like 90% Hubbard. I mean, H8 Dylan is the backup. Like this is where we're out here with this situation. So that looks really bad. But I don't know. I think that that one's kind of lucky. The bad one that I'm shocked you didn't mention Dan as a marine Hampton. Oh, I thought we were doing the regrets. This is the ones we want. This is the other side. I was going to say is you didn't draft plenty of other side of the regrets. We didn't draft like CD Land because of Hampton or we didn't draft in my case Kenneth Walker because of Hampton. Yeah. I was high on Kenneth Walker. But I was drafting Hampton and Derek Henry had a famine. So Henry looks good. But Hampton looks like a that team's dead because of this pit now. And if you had Kenneth Walker, you might legitimately be like three and one or four and four and four and four and one and three. Yeah. I was talking to Jamie about that. He's like, he loves Kenneth Walker, right? Love him. And he said, Dan, my FFT team, I decided I just want to be different and diversify a little bit. And he took Barclay over Kenneth Walker. And he's, oh, he's about to be able to talk with his rank. Yeah. That's the thing. Everybody likes to diversify. I've learned through the years. You don't diversify. I think you should diversify. You absolutely should diversify based on the injuries you should. But yes, exactly. I mean, you're, look, you might have more bad teams, but you probably have more good teams if you diversify. So you probably more, I think the opposite. You don't diversify. You have a better chance to win a league. If you lean into like the Ken Walker thing. So part of the reason I ranked him lower was his injury history. And we started doing our analysis, Jacob and I had him above Hampton and I had him as my RB 5. He was going to be my flag plan. And then he had that foot injury that meant nothing, that ended up meaning nothing. And I'm just reminded him my head of like, can this guy do this and stay healthy? As we don't know, yeah, it's only been four weeks. I know. I know. Yeah. Both Walker and Alave are that way where it's like either one of them, they have a pretty long injury history. And we're only four weeks in, but right now they look like some of the best picks you could have made. Yeah. Alave to me feels kind of like JSN last year, where I was very high on him for all these reasons. Had him ranked as like a borderline round two guy, but didn't end up drafting any alave this year. I drafted neighbors ahead of him. I drafted Pickens ahead of him. I drafted, say flowers ahead of him right now. He's like the only one from that group barring an injury or something is flowers that could produce him maybe. I also occasionally drafted Colson, Lovelin ahead of him in round three, which is absolutely brutal. And then Team Ack is the other one. I drafted Ladmakonky ahead of McMillan. I drafted Jalen Waddle. I drafted Luther Burton ahead of McMillan. So those have been brutal. And then the last one is George Kiddell. But I don't think I was ever going to get there. Honestly, just drafting somebody that old off of the Achilles, it just wasn't, didn't make sense to me. There were lots of later on Titans to like. And some of them have been big hits, but not to the extent of Kiddell. Kiddell has been. and he looks like a complete league winner. And especially if Mike Evans can't make it through the season, which it seems like there's like a 2% chance of him making it through the season. Kittle is gonna go nuts. Like it's like all focused on him. There's no, they don't even throw it at the receivers when Mike Evans isn't out there. - Right. I wanted to disagree with you just on CDLAM and this is so obvious, this should have been obvious. And I don't agree because if you just look at when Lam came back from the injury, he missed a couple of weeks last year when he came back from injury. He had like half a target more per game than George Pickens or something like that. It was the last 10 games, excluding week eight. And Pickens was on pace for 146 targets and Lam was on pace for 156 targets. And Pickens was better than him. And if you look at CDLAM's target per out run rate last season, it was 25.8%, which is way below what it was the previous two or three years. I mean, the two years before that, it was 29%. And I think you could see an obvious, obvious issue, not that he was bad or anything, but that he wasn't the player that we thought that used to be with George Pickens on the team because the targets just were not there. Like this was the first time he was playing with a legit guy opposite him. And even going into last week, he was on pace for 141 targets. And then he gets a career high in targets and catches in week four and now things look different. But I don't think it was obvious at all. I didn't draft CDLAM. I didn't draft Pickens. I just traded for him in one league. So all my leagues, I have one Cowboys receiver. We'll talk about Pickens in a little bit, but I am a little surprised. And I think the numbers are a lot more lopsided now than they were a week ago, or a two days ago. But I'm a little surprised at what we're seeing from, right now he has a 32.2% target per out run rate, which is by far a career high. So I don't think it was so obvious with CDLAM. But all right, let's go to our next one. Let's talk about Oli Gordon, Brandon from on Twitter wants to know about Oli Gordon. And I think a lot of people do. He's still rostered in only 78% of leagues. So he might be available in some leagues. Nine carries, a hundred yards and a touchdown at the Vikings, two catches for no yards. And not just that then, he played a ton. He ran the most routes. I mean, he was like basically their true lead running back, even though he only had nine carries. So how much are you buying into the Oli G show? I think what's most interesting is that the plan was not for him to be their true lead running back. As I went back and watched the tape of this game, the first play of the game was a run for him. The second play of the game was a sign screen that didn't work for him. And then Jalen Wright just came into the game during the first possession after their first first down. Jalen Wright eventually came back into the game. And through the first five possessions, I believe it was nearly split between him and Wright. And then in the second half, we saw Oli G take over more. And I'll use that as well. 'Cause I think it's fun to use the Oli G show. And big up yourself, says Ben Sat. Yeah, I forget all of this stuff. But like that was one of them. Bumiakasha, Bumiakasha, I think is another one that I see in there. Another pronounced that, right? But and then the plan kind of changed. I did feel like out of the 100 yards, 53, I believe, for 51 came on the one run. It was a good run. Do I feel like the Dolphins caught the Vikings in a really weird pre-snap formation that sometimes you can catch Brian Flores in? And then they ran like an outside run to the left where there was just one linebacker that needed to be pinned down. And then it opened up like a massive spot, a massive hole for Gordon to run through. Yes, it's not gonna happen every week, I don't know. But his touchdown run was phenomenal. That was the second big run he had where he, it was again a pretty well blocked play. But he did have to hurdle over a defender who was flat on his feet and then keep his balance after hurtling and lost no momentum. Shook off one more ankle tackle with pretty much ease again and wins the end zone. He's a big back. Like this is how it worked for him at Oklahoma State. When he was in the Heisman running his second to last season at Oklahoma State, it was because he used his size to basically bully players and he's got a lot more lateral agility than you would expect for someone to size. I comped him coming out because the Giants really interested him. They brought him in for a pre-draft so I watched his tape. I comped him to like the Marco Murray. He still reminds me of the Marco Murray tight player. Not as good in my mind but has that ability like strong high cut runner. I feel like he makes more sense for what the dolphins are under Bobby Slavic than Jalen Wright does and I think what they saw on film will probably be like, all right, the plan that we went in with, which is basically a split with these two, is probably gonna have to lean more toward Ollie moving forward. I still don't get too excited though Adam because again, those two runs were what defined his game and they were in my mind just kind of taking advantage of Flores as aggressive nature. I don't have excitement about this offense and I don't have excitement about him getting a lot of scoring opportunities. So I'm not very excited about him moving forward personally. Okay, good to know. And what do you think about the team name? Oil of Ollie. No, no, don't ever run back the oil of in your life again. Please. Nobody's lighting at that but your soundtrack. Can't just soundtrack your way to a laugh. All right. That's not how this works. Anything to add Jacob or shall we move on? That's crazy. Okay, we'll move on. Carlos Taran wants to know about George Pickens, David Montgomery and all of the Bucks wide receivers. Jacob, who do you have of any of these people? Who do you have hope for? Pickens Montgomery Bucks wide receivers. Pickens, yeah. So I do think that the LAM stuff was something we could have predicted. I think just playing through a high-angle sprain is a very real reason to believe that his numbers came down last year. And it wasn't just that Pickens was like alphaing him or whatever. I think both these guys are insanely good. Like truly two of the best, like, I don't know, eight receivers in the whole league or something like that. I'm the same team. LAM is the more consistent reliable winner and has the rapport with Dac. Like him and Dac have been together forever. He's the guy in the red zone. That's the way it was last year, even when he was playing with a high-angle sprain. So he was my preferred pick for fantasy. But we're going to see big games for Pickens. He has so many yards called back, or not called back, but like negated by a pass interference already. He's had drops to, which are, I think, kind of random. I just feel fine with Pickens. The other guy's here. I got a little bit worried about. The Texans' offensive line continues to really, really struggle in the box. I mean, I watched the whole game, and it's just not happening for Ibuka. I don't think it's happening any time soon. Maybe the second half, or something. How many catchwear areas do you think Ibuka had this week? Oh, man. Oh, 30. Nope. No, he hasn't had more than 43 in a game all year. And I'm pretty sure he had four this week. Did you see him get wide open? And Daniels didn't see him. Could have been a touchdown. Yeah. Didn't see him. And he had to drop in the end zone as well. I said, I'll be on the box for this past week. He's not a top 36 receiver. And he should be dropped in the rankings. I stand by that, and I don't really view him as a startable player at all at this point, outside of just his name being what it was, and what he was the beginning of last season. I'm sure. No, I didn't think Daniels played that poorly, though. Did you? I thought he played better than I expected. He played better in the second half. He was a pretty sure. Yeah, it looked really bad at first, I thought. And then he kind of settled in and played better. So that's maybe some sign that it could get better. But as far as what a book is role within this offense is, what the quarterback he has no rapport with in the timing is way off. You just see so many moments in Jacob. You put a couple on Twitter where a book is open, but it's not going to get to him because in order for it to get there, the anticipation and the timing has to be good. And that's just not happening with Jalen Daniels. He made plays in that second half, but most of them I thought were off schedule to me, at least outside of a few here and there. So it's just tough for me to get excited about anyone in this passing game right now at all. 39% pressure rate for the box with 2.24 seconds as the average time to pressure. That's going to be very fast. So Ganon Packer's defensive coach here was constantly crowding the line and showing different looks. And the box really struggled against it. And it's like, if the offensive line is a problem, if the pass protection plan is a problem, then you have nothing. That's supposed to be the strength of this team. - I just think that's the move too. All the good OCs do the bad ones, just stupid and I'll play my scheme. No, when you play a rookie quarterback who has no experience in the NFL, this should be the game plan every single time. And I think until further notice, DCs are going to watch this tape and know this is how you play this box team. They don't really have a deep threat anyway to worry about. And can we even get the ball there? So to me, I think this offense is going to look pretty bad. Until Baker's back personally. - Two screens to Ibuka in the game. Two screens to Chris Goblin, one to Ganwo, one to Odin. They're throwing a ton of screens, but it just hasn't been effective at all. Among offenses that are averaging three or more screens per game, only the chargers, dolphins, Patriots, Bengals, and Vikings are averaging few or yards per screen target. They have zero explosives on 15 screen targets this year. So that's just generating nothing. And that's been a huge theoretical strength of what this team should be, right? That's what it was when Liam Colman was there. And Zach Robinson is supposed to implement a lot of that stuff. He's kind of tried it, it just hasn't worked. I think that this stuff that like should be working is not working. They're also running a weird amount of the offense through Kate on and he's killing them. He's playing parable. And he has like the highest first free target rate again in this game. He has only one fewer first free target rates, first free target in a mech at Buka on the year. - In a bad way. I don't know about. Yeah, I don't know what that is. I know, like my cockpit's got used this way kind of for Zach Robinson, so I don't know if that's gonna continue or not, but it's just not working. - Yeah. - The only thing that really worked and it didn't work that well is just running with Bucky Irving or talker occasionally, but just like, they went to a lot, they simplified things in the round game. Just like man gap zone, less outside zone, just man gap up the middle, and those worked all right. But again, just no explosive plays. That's just like, as long as this doesn't get blown up, in the backfield, then we can get four, five, six yards. But that run game isn't good enough for them to not eventually run into these like third-long situations, and it just feels hopeless on those. Yeah, it's too explosive, it's always the all day. - Yeah, I'm not sure there's a single startable player. I think the only one that's in question is Bucky, and if Sean talkers the goal line back, and I freaked out about this yesterday, and I'm still really upset about it. It's just, it's so annoying. - You could still play. - I think Bucky at least has potential to become startable, 'cause that's clear from what Jacob said, and I think the obvious solution here to me at least is run this, and operate this offense through Bucky Irving until Baker may field this back. Does that mean I think they can successfully do that? It's gonna require things like what Jacob said to get better at the timing in the screen game, and things of that nature, using him as an outlet. - They're not, at least in this game, they didn't really use him that way though. - Yeah, and you need to use him as an extension of your run game as well in the passing game, or if you want to just generate any yards. - But Daniel's is gonna be more likely to take off and run with it. Nate Carey is for 55 yards. - Yeah, for sure. - I'm talking about design stuff more, but yeah, less than like the check down, just like design space to get him the ball in space. But again, this is just hopeful thinking at this point, it's wishful thinking, and it's certainly more wishful for me on his front than it is for Godwin, or Ike Bukka. And Bukka to me is somebody I'd be devastated to have on any team right now. - I would kinda buy it with Bucky, then maybe that would happen if it was like after week one or week two, where the usage felt like it was centered around him, and it wasn't that way. - Oh, you're right, it's not. - The part mine are also, they compartmentalize the back, feel it a lot more this week. It kinda felt like they went away from him, and it's just there. - I don't know, he's the best player, yeah, sure. But he's also made some mistakes this year. Past protection and fumbles, drops, stuff like that. I just don't know, it feels like a bad team that has no identity. I would not wanna play in this, guys. - Can I play the Cowboys by the way, this week, and you know, Pickens is in this discussion. Pickens is facing a team that has been awesome against wide receivers. It's really weird, you know. Only Jordan Addison has done well. Look at Jamar Chase and T Higgins. They struggled against Tampa Bay. Actually, Denzel Boston did well, but he had that fluke long touchdown. Addison did well. Matthew Golden, 21 yards on seven targets, Christian Watson, three targets, 47 yards. So that's what Pickens is going up against. Fourth best against wide receivers so far. Pickens with a good target share in each of his first three games are good enough, and then seven percent last week yesterday. But I think I would worry about what Pickens is, the man, the go routes, 30%, a little bit more than that. And he looked like he's running clear outs for LAM essentially. - Exactly. But worse yesterday than in previous games. - Then before, yeah. - But yeah, he looks like the sacrificial X, which is crazy because he isn't, but it's kind of, it's been a little scary. All right, what were you gonna say, Danny? You could finish the show with your brilliant thought. - Oh, there was nothing brilliant about it. Varen Burns in the chat has multiple times told this Adam that you and I are mispronouncing the school that Sean Tucker played at. When I think he's actually wrong, he's giving some kind of weird finger lakes, living growing up in the finger lakes type of accent. It's not Syracuse, no one has ever called it Syracuse. Okay, it's Syracuse. Everyone who has ever pronounced it has pronounced it Syracuse. - You know what, I asked my cousin who went there because I've had this debate before and I had her pronounce it for me and she said Syracuse. And I will never bend on this. John Furikus, who the town was named after, if that exists, could tell me that it's pronounced Syracuse and I'll say, you are wrong guy. It is clearly Syracuse. I will never say Syracuse. - No one's pronouncing it Syracuse. It's insane to even consider that. Don't ever put that in our chat again 'cause we'll never move off this Adam and I. - Bad guy said, is Dan the laziest person on the board? - Wow, you put that on here. I'm not the laziest person on this pod. When it comes to things like my background maybe, I'm not great when it comes to my hair or his hair or hoodies. - I'm not the hair and the hoodies. Whoa, whoa, whoa, you've just crossed the line. - You just said before the show that you won't get a haircut 'cause you want a golf. - True. - That's pretty easy. - That's just priorities. I'm not gonna waste a Saturday getting a haircut when I can be on the course. Get a haircut on a weekday. You should never get a haircut on a Saturday. It's a great call. You know, more important things to do. All right, well, we'll talk to you all tomorrow with the waiver wire on fantasy football today. Make sure you check out Beyond the Box score. It's got its own feed on YouTube channel. Thanks to Dan and Jacob. Talk to you tomorrow, everybody. See ya. (upbeat music) - Paramount podcasts. It was a gruesome discovery off a dirt road in Georgia. - Hunters had found a body. Was it immediately clear to you that this woman had been murdered? - Yes. - But who was this mystery woman in the woods? - That looks like Mindy. - I'm Erin Moriarty and from 48 hours, this is the woman in the woods. - I have never wanted to be wrong like this in my whole entire life. - Follow and listen to the woman in the woods wherever you get your podcasts.