Week 2 Recap: Patriots Offense, Struggling Stars, Rookie Decisions & More! (09/21 Fantasy Football Podcast)

This is Fantasy Football Today from CBS Sports. What a play! Can you believe this? It's a no-like game. It's time to dominate your fantasy league. Off to the races, and he stays on his feet. He's just going to go the distance. Now, here's some combination of Adam, Dave, Jamie, and Heath. What is wrong with the Chargers and Bears offense? Is Colson Loveland a bust? Is Devon Achan a. Wait, are we just replaying last week's episode? Not much has changed, huh? And the Chiefs won a primetime game, 33-30. We'll recap the Chiefs-Colts game, which was a super exciting game. We've got, I think, you know, it was a pretty bad Sunday for injuries, but hopefully the Monday won't be as bad. Caleb Williams doesn't seem like a bad injury. It's not a season. We don't know. Well, that's what they said. This is like a half hour ago. He escaped a major injury. Mm-hmm. Jaden Daniels doesn't seem like it's season-ending. We'll see how long he's out. A lot of running back injuries. We don't have updates there. But today, okay, recap Sunday Night Football. Yes, we'll talk about the Bears. Yes, we'll talk about the Chargers. Yes, we'll talk about Achan. Also, George Pickens. What's going on with George Pickens? His target per outrun rate actually higher than it was last year, so that is good. The Patriots offense, bleh. And the rookies. What are we doing about some of these rookies? Casey Concepcion, Denzel Boston, Carnell Tate, Jeremiah Love, Jonah Combs. You heard Dan. Now here's Jacob. What's up, Jacob? Hey, hey. Chiefs 2-0. Giants hopefully 2-0 as well soon. Wow. That's right. And I just wonder. Yeah, when's the next time the Chiefs are primetime? They just don't get enough primetime. Let's see what they're going to be. Week seven. We have three straight weeks of Falcons primetime somehow. Who the heck scheduled that out? Really? Yeah. We're stuck with three straight weeks of Falcons primetime. It's crazy. All right. Let's talk about. Last night's primetime game. Kansas City 33, Indianapolis 30. I've got a couple. I got some easy questions, some hard questions for this game. Who is the best just just for these two teams? Best quarterback rest of season. Patrick Mahomes. OK, that was easy. Best running back rest of season. Kenneth Walker. It's definitely Kenneth Walker. Definitely Kenneth Walker. Jonathan Taylor's averaging like 28 points per game or something. I mean, he has been that offense has been better. Especially first, you know, early game script. But you got to take Walker right now. If Walker's these healthy, he's like essentially in the mix for RB1 overall. He's like Jonathan Taylor. If he played for a better team and he's right in targets and got the targets. Yeah, he has three more points than Jonathan Taylor. Taylor's Taylor actually has eight targets. Kenneth Walker does have 16, though. All right. Who's the best wide receiver on this team? Rest of season. Josh Downs. These are all teams. Both. Both teams. Both teams. I'm going to go with Rishi Rice. I was a little bit more enthused than Jacob was with Rice last night. A little bit. It took one Josh Downs game for me to become completely emboldened again. He's the best. Well, Pierce is also injured. That's the other thing. Yeah. Pierce injured and Josh Downs. If you've heard us say on the show, we watch the Josh Downs tape. This guy gets open all the time. He destroys defensive backs. I think you saw it. If you haven't actually seen it, saw it last night. It's what he does for a living. I felt so bad for Legereus Need. He's just not ready for that. Yeah. Yeah. Also, Downs was really close to scoring on one of those quick hitters that Jones hit him on. It was just too far behind him. I just don't think he's going to score that much, and I don't think he's going to make a lot of big plays. And also, Alec Pierce, that was a big deal. Alec Pierce going out. Yeah, so huge target. Well, big, good target volume for Josh Downs. Nine targets on 31 pass attempts. That's a terrific target share. But also, this team basically never passes near the end zone. They just hand it to Jones. And Taylor, all the time, they've run six plays from the five-yard line or closer, and five of them have been runs. Last year, they had the third lowest pass rate inside the five-yard line. Okay, anyway. Which would work in your favor of the Taylor over Walker argument, because I do think the A, the Colts are more committed to the run and run in spots they should run more than the Chiefs do. At times last night, I was like, why are the Chiefs throwing every single first and second down? But B, it's the red zone work. I think that's a good point. I didn't say Taylor over Walker. I know, but you said it's not a given. It's not. I mean, these are obviously two first-round RB1s. Okay, and then who's the best tight end on these teams? He's back, baby. Travis, I'll never go away, Kelsey. I'm so mad I didn't just buy him again in fantasy. You got him for free. He's on waiver wire some leagues before week one. I mean, he's just going to do it every single year. And yeah, it's not going to be what it was at one point, but it's still better than night. Like, you're starting him every week. Like, you have Kyle Pitts or Travis Kelsey. Who are you starting? Well, I mean, who's quarterback? It is going to be Kelsey. What do you mean? It's Kelsey, but I'm not judging. It's Kelsey even when Pennix comes back. Okay, I'm not judging Pitts on what's happened so far, but it's Kelsey, I guess. Kelsey or Fannin? Kelsey. Kelsey. So then we're just talking about all the mid. Kelsey or Kraft at this point? Kraft. I don't know. I'll take Kraft. I don't know. Kelsey or Loveland? No, he won't go there just yet. Kelsey was a top five tight end with Patrick Mahomes last year. Right. It's not crazy. And Rasheed Rice is not getting near the target volume he used to, and no one's emerging here. So it's not crazy. I don't think I can ever take a tight end early again. This happens every single year. We do this every year. Well, McBride is one of the best players in fantasy right now. This just looks like a huge miss for me on McBride. Yeah. We'll see about Bowers. But yeah. Yeah. I mean, Kelsey. So would you take Kelsey over Warren? Yes. Personally. I don't think so. Weird start for Tyler Warren. He has a.83 yard ADOT so far. He's doing nothing downfield. He's getting a lot of screens, though. A lot of design reads, obviously, is what they do. He has three of the Colts' seven red zone targets. Tyler Warren, we're talking about. He has two of their three green zone targets. He has their only end zone targets so far. They've played Jesse Minter and Spags, too. They've played tough matchups, for sure. And things will get better. But man, that sat line looks gross. Six receptions for 21 yards. I think in more neutral spots, you'll be able to see Warren get more stuff going. And they'll be able to take some more shots on the field. Right now, it just feels like they're trying to get it out quick. Which is no surprise. This guy, we talked off the air about Rasheed Rice, his inability to get open. Tyler Warren is not getting open. They don't even try to get him. It feels to me like I've never seen him run an intermediate in-breaker scene. It's all gimmicky stuff with him. A lot of it, it's like he's blocking, and then he comes off the block, and he's open at the line of scrimmage. Now, it wasn't necessarily like that last year. No one has an A-dot under one yard. It's wild. And his touchdown was an amazing route. That was a great release off the line of scrimmage. He has the capability to do it. Will the Colts use him in that way, I guess, is the question. I don't even know what to say about tight end right now. If you're going to rank your top five, tight ends, rest of season, McBride's one, then what? Bowers still two. Kincaid. Kincaid. Jacob, you have Kincaid two over Bowers, right? Wow. How? You're just worried about the Bowers post-injury not being good thing? Yes. Yeah. Unfortunately, we have to worry about that again. It's unbelievable. Two years running with this. Yeah, it's annoying. And DJ Moore being injured right now, hopefully not too long, but that would only help. Laporta's in the mix. I see that in the comments. Laporta's definitely in the mix. Yeah. I think Kraft, Kraft's going to be in the mix. Eh. Eh. Really? I think Kittle, like George Kittle had 80 yards and a touchdown yesterday, and he's only running for half the routes still. Something looks nasty wrong with that Packers offense to me. Oh, I think the rain, I think the conditions were a factor yesterday. Like they played the Vikings. I'm a big weather guy, so I'll give you that. They played the Vikings in week one and did pretty well, considering it was the Vikings. Like they threw two touchdowns against a team that allowed one in their previous eight games. And then the weather, I mean, I watched it. I just watched it this morning. Like there were some drops. I actually think their inability to run the ball is hurting their passing game too. Yeah, that's a good point. And I totally agree with that. Jacobs could be back in like a month, maybe. That's just kind of the speculation. Somebody in the chat mentioned Kittle. I just said, yeah. I mean, he had a huge game. And I don't know that he's going to be a top five tight end. Like that's not a lot of targets so far for Kittle, but it's up for grabs. It's up for grabs. It's like that offense is, I think I saw it again, like number one yet again in EPA per drop back. Purdy had two incompletions. One was a drop. The other was just like the end of the game, just like throwing out a bouncer or like spiking it or something. They just are unreal. Like even if Kittle doesn't get volume, he's going to get such a boost from the efficiency of that offense. And I don't know, Raj saying in the chat, tight end is going to be that bad. I don't know. It doesn't sound bad to me. It sounds bad if you drafted Pitts so far and Harold Fannin, who was okay yesterday, but actually sounds okay. I mean, love. Okay. Loveland. It's just, but it's not so bad. All right. Cause he got, you got Hunter Henry now who's running all the routes and had a good target share. They only threw 22 passes yesterday. You got Schultz who can factor in. It's not so bad. All right. Any, any thought let's talk about where she writes and Patrick Mahomes here. Jacob and I not so encouraged by rice. I guess I felt like he looked better than he did in week one, but still not that good. Dan, you're okay with it. Remember he had an 83 yards, but 31 of them came on the last play of regulation. So really padded his stats. What do you think about Rice Island? mahomes dan i don't i'm not more like enthusiastic about rice from a fantasy standpoint i guess i'm more enthusiastic and somewhat i am i'm more enthusiastic just i thought he looked a little bit better moving without the football last night than he had in week one and what we saw in the preseason as far as the other side of that goes that was what i texted jacob that was the first time the chief's offense looks like that looked like the chief's offense to me in like dozens of games at this point that was the best i've seen patrick mahomes look in a long long time his deep ball accuracy which has been a big problem for him these last years both charting into the eye test was back last night the timing was great the anticipation he threw the ball into space letting his receivers run under it under pressure under duress he manipulated the pocket really well i felt like in week one he'd look kind of not all there movement wise and then it almost looked like one week later he was back to his old self from a movement standpoint both in the pocket then out of the pocket so i was really enthusiastic the whole idea here is like you add walker to the offense and hopefully the passing game gets easier because teams are gonna have to allocate more recess sources to walker that's what it started to look like last night i will note this i think this colts defense is a near lock to be a bottom 10 defense and most likely headed toward bottom five over the course of the season so it's important to note that was a good matchup and they ensure various word uh was heard i believe for the colts so one of their top corners uh double check on that but yeah yeah i mean and and i think you know worthy 73 percent rostered he had the touchdown he also had two drops in this game and if he caught those balls he has a pretty good game right you know do you think okay jacob two quick questions do you think xavier worthy is worth hanging on to 73 percent rostered no no i do i do too adam because i think they're using him like a better version of rishi rice right now like i don't think he's he gets the ball he gets the ball he gets the ball he gets the ball he gets smacked three times per game where i'm like oh he's done i don't think that that's gonna last all right but he's like actually got some juice and he's a short area target guy now and do you think rishi rice is a must start player no okay i think those guys could score points if the chiefs play well and i think the kenneth walker thing is real teams are definitely reacting to that they're getting way more stack boxes the play action stuff is open they were using as a decoy the goal line last night they got passing touchdowns as a result i don't think either of those guys are very good so i don't really want to go there um it seems like i mean like if we're just i test kelsey looks like the best player and he's also getting more first three targets he looks so good yeah i think i trust kelsey i trust um walker and everyone else in the offense is maybe they'll have random weeks but i think jaylen royals is fine and they they're getting him in more and more and they really like cyrus allen too so it's like at any point if those other guys falter which we've seen them falter every single year of their career whether it's injury or they're getting off field stuff or on field stuff i think the other guys are fine and can step up and the offense will stay stay rolling will you would you drop xavier worthy for denzel boston no probably not i mean if you want to just like try to trade boston high or something but it seems like sustainability for the downfit passing game with cleveland is so so unlikely boston had a huge yak play on some pretty shoddy tackling boston's a good player but i really do think it's very if you look at the top 20 scores a receiver his is probably the flukiest at this point okay more on him a little bit later and by the way we talked about who could be a top five tight end we didn't even mention isaiah likely yeah sure sure about him all right that's it for kansas city 33 indianapolis 30 dan uh you know what jacob i think i can do it quicker jacob what's uh beyond the box score looking like this week uh just on our usual schedule so dan and i on tuesdays um do the waiver wire and talk through our film thoughts um digging into all these games so there's you know you want to know it's basically what we're doing today but we have a lot more time to get into that um get into all the film on that today's show we just have like one or two games we've gotten to and then i think the other thing i would point you to is that wednesdays i do these usage shows where i do rest of season rankings and i really dig into the nitty-gritty of these roles for the players like why i have things to do and then i think the other thing for rishi rice why has he gone from like a 30 target per route run player to an 11 target per route run player um you can find all that stuff for running backs receivers tight ends all that on wednesdays and once again for rishi rice's average route depth was more than eight yards and he's never had a game in his career with an average route depth more than seven yards and and had more than six targets in any of those games most of them were early in his career but now we have two to start the year okay uh we're gonna take a break and we've got news and notes and not a lot of them caleb williams update that we just saw and then we'll get into the rest of the show we'll be right back so jayden daniels dislocated elbow his coach dan quinn says he expects him to return this season ben johnson just said that caleb williams is week to week with a hamstring injury and we'll see who starts at quarterback for the falcons this week no updates i haven't seen anything on jadarian price other than x-rays were negative haven't seen anything on saquon barkley he was luckily able to come in back in the game but he barely played jk dobbins hamstring injury rj harvey i think also a hamstring maybe a groin for harvey he missed the game so jonah coleman's going to be popular this week rico dowdle left with a toe injury and that's that demarcus robinson has a high ankle sprain mike evans has a hip injury it is not expected to be serious i hope they get him back this week against arizona and i'll tell you why because i don't know that i'm going to start him the following two weeks against denver and at seattle so mike evans i'd love to be able to start him in week three weeks four and five could be questionable jayden reed left in the first quarter has extremities as has feeling in all of his extremities and he is feeling in them so that's good for jayden reed sometimes those scary injuries they're not long term and alec pierce has the injured heel and x-rays were negative dallas goddard's gonna have an mri on his knee eli raritan left for new england david nijoku i obviously haven't seen an update on david nijoku he was carted off let's see if we have anything here did kolar get hurt too yeah charlie yeah at the end of the game it's a knee injury for nijoku don't know about kolar um yes definitely aranda gatson's going to be discussed on the waiver wire show tomorrow uh kolar had his arm in a sling after the game and uh charverius ward yes did leave with a groin injury for the colts two starting uh or two cornerbacks i believe starters but two cornerbacks for the cardinals left with injuries they face san francisco this week so i want mike evans back those injuries not expected to be serious they both might be able to come back will johnson and jayden reed left for new england david nijoku both might be able to come back will johnson and max melton um i'll just leave it at that let's get into more fun stuff here snap counts trends whatever this is where you guys just have the floor um i'll start it with the saints and travis achan 54 percent of the snaps alvin camara 29 percent of the snaps travis achan ran 13 routes camara ran eight camara did not run a snap or did not play a snap on third down cj donaldson was still their third down back it was like the second half was more encouraging i guess for travis achan and he worked at the goal line he got the two-point conversion uh but he's obviously been a major concern for fantasy managers dan where are we on the saints here i'm gonna defer defer to jacob on this one because i studied about five games for the show and the saints was not one of them saints look awesome tyler shuck keeps stepping up in clutch moments um they drop back a ton uh the travis achan stuff is definitely concerning he was already splitting work in week one and then camara's got a clear role um joan johnson's role scaled back a little bit but still made some big plays he's really good devon vele is playing really really well and then they've got this rookie bryce lance who's like a competent field stretcher it feels like he's actually been able to step in and play right away which is really really impressive um and that allows them to move the other guys around more and so chris alave right now is just shredding just uncoverable only jackson's bet the jig has more yards than alave he looks like as long as he stays healthy he's going to be a league winning pick at wide receiver this year back-to-back years of that too yeah but for achan i don't really even know like i'm not selling low i don't think i want it i just think that it's so obviously i don't understand you give the guy like 12 million dollars a year and you give camara 10 touches like camara had 10 touches while achan had two it doesn't make any sense camara doesn't do anything with the touches there's no doubt in my mind that travis achan is the best running back on the team i think we all know that kendry miller was a big factor last week i don't i think he was inactive this week um he didn't have any touches and i i feel like things will get better for him i'm however i'm not confident enough to say buy low on him i wouldn't buy low on him me either i moved him behind basial tootin before last week i've got him behind like david montgomery and players like that did i think have similar sorts of roles i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i'm curious does that seem about right to you who's that tootin etn like behind those guys behind tootin for sure for me i definitely have mine tootin who was the other back you had montgomery i definitely have him behind montgomery i wouldn't definitely have him behind montgomery i mean i i think i see them similarly yeah i think montgomery has a much better chance of scoring touchdowns than etn does that i disagree with because i think so far etn travis achan has been the goal line oh achan i'm sorry yeah that's all right he's been the goal line back for the most part for a team that we are buying their offense we think they're gonna score a lot did he have a touchdown call back in this game by the way yeah he did okay and he had a touchdown last week so i'm not sure nine targets in the first game just three in this game i think that trend will continue to come down with camara back um and just that offense can yeah so the don't see the receiving work i guess first montgomery it's like if nico is out for a lot a lot of the season then i'm way further down on montgomery i think just that whole offense looks night and day with nico on the field versus with him i'm not on the field um so maybe i feel a little bit more comfortable with with hn in that sense i just i don't know where the points are coming from i think it's i think he's gonna have to get a bigger role and i've just i think he could and speaking of montgomery played fewer snaps than woody marks yesterday and it wasn't just because they were chasing points the first half he played fewer snaps than woody marks uh so he's been terrible running the football so far he has 26 carries for 70 yards right they can't block potentially tough matchups i mean i think cincinnati is a good run events i don't know about buffalo all right look at least that's the range like if we're drafting champions we're going to be able to do a lot of things we're going to be able to do a lot of things we're going to be able to do a lot of things we're going to be able to do a lot today he's probably like a fifth round pick maybe six round pick something like that uh i think i would just take i think i'd take him over the patriots running backs though uh that's interesting i thought travion looked pretty good yesterday yeah just watch that idea of travion to me is probably worth it if i'm taking i mean if you're talking about a six round pick you're hoping that that's like your rb3 right like an upside pick like to me i don't really understand what the point of hn is for fantasy that sounds weird but like what is he you plug him in and with the semblance of safety as an rb2 but is there safety because he can have games where he has like 10 touches or whatever like i don't feels very dead zone back to me but then again like he is safer than henderson who could have any week where he fumbles and they take him out of the game plan or whatever it may be but henderson can also just on one touch get you nine points which i guess hn can do that uh he did it with the jaguars it's a you know that run scheme has been pretty bad throughout kellen moore's career run the run game has not been a a good aspect of kellen moore's scheme at any point if his role stays like this that then yes travis hn is going to be disappointing i guess i'm just saying that i it's only week two i feel like he he could gain i don't know why he would why wouldn't they do it originally but i feel like he'd get more of a role like we we think jeremiah love is going to have a bigger role as the season goes on i get like hn's different hn should have it right now travis love will have to kind of grow into it um yeah but uh all right i said my piece uh what else j uh jacob what do you want to discuss here well speaking of jeremiah love you're in eight routes to 18 for tyler algier in week two that's fun painful i don't yeah like if anything i would expect him to get that like get him out in space but why do you draft jeremiah love you're not going to utilize his route running i don't know however only five carries for algier algier had 17 in week one and love had nine carries don't nice yeah i mean i didn't think he was a terrible start this week against the seahawks but yeah i mean when you look at both those guys jadarian price and jeremiah love jacob do you have hope that things are going to change for them uh yeah love i think so i think there's a decent chance that he becomes a hot hand that we've heard um michael lafleur talk about right and he gets the steph curry treatment or whatever at some point this year is what you're hoping for that he's just really good and that that shines through um jadarian price looks really good but i think his role is kind of clearly defined and they've got somebody coming back who's actually really good at all the other stuff so like right now they're already giving all the goal line stuff the pass blocking stuff all that is going to like role players zach charbonnet is actually a boss of that like and i think he's just going to get that and he might if he plays well even take some of the early down stuff too um so yeah i think jadarian price you're looking at basically what kenneth walker had last year in terms of a role yeah which was about rb28 yeah per game he runs hot with long plays and touchdowns then he can be useful but that's going to be hard to predict you know i watched the tape of of all those running backs you know emmanuel wilson to his credit had a nice game but i just don't see how you could watch jadarian price versus emmanuel wilson and jeremiah love versus tyler algier and not be so frustrated as a fantasy manager now i think we knew this was a possibility so we were okay like especially with price and with love early in the season you're hoping that love gets more and more work and he did get more carries than algier this week but it's just not even close like like jordan jeremiah love explodes when he touches the ball tyler algier just doesn't have he's not that kind of player yeah it's stupid to me it's malpractice for these coaches to to not be using price and love more i think they'd probably be more likely to be using price and love more because i mean that's how it appears to us but i think they'd probably tell you because this happens every year right this is not we're not we're not going over something that's new to us like how could this coach think they'll probably tell us these guys understand the playbook better they're going to help us more in past production they're going to be well more aware of where to be within the route like for the timing standpoint of the quarterback like quarterback needs to know where this running back is going to be on that route and i guess algier if he's running 18 to loves eight has a better feel right now for that i don't know that's what they're telling us at least but that will change love i will see will change the the price thing is getting scary because when charbonnet is back i don't like i don't know what you're hoping for if you start price i think emmanuel wilson was so bad and short yardage yesterday that they were going to give jadarian price like he got a second and goal carry and he got stuffed right i thought maybe he was going to start getting some of that um he got hurt and we never really saw it play out all right uh anything else jacob i'm sure there's plenty yeah for sure so um just with the colts i think it's interesting that keenan allen is going to be the first to get a second and goal carry and he got stuffed barely played yesterday even with the injury to alec pierce it was laquan laquan treadwell who played more josh downs at a 91 snap rate getting out of 51 snap rate 61 route rate had five targets had one catch for five yards so if he's not at the point where he can be a meaningful contributor anymore and like really take away targets as a 34 year old then i do think downs is probably just going to run away with it here um as long as he stays healthy and be somebody who's pretty dang productive for for ppr purposes at least um another thing that i think is going to be a another interesting player to me who's getting more and more playing time it seems like maybe a young guy winning out we'll see here um is antonio williams in washington um had the same number of routes as stefan diggs i checked if it was like a blowout related thing maybe a little bit but it was similar in the first half where he was playing almost as much as diggs um right now they're using daime brown as like the field stretching player i think they could move terry mclaurin more and more into that role and play all three of them or at the very least just get williams out there more um the reason i bring this up is because he's been really productive he's yet to not catch a target um he's 12th at wide receiver in yards per outrun so far this is a guy that they freaking ranted and raved about after they drafted him in round three they seem to really really like him they think he could play inside or outside playing two receiver sets um could win with the ball in his hands and obviously he's a route winner too so he's a really i think a really good stash at wide receiver my favorite stash is freaking emma johnson man 71 percent avoided tackle rate on the year he's gonna walker good kenneth walker has the highest rate out of qualified players at 47 percent emma johnson's is 71 percent now you could see why i had this whole thing with heath adam over the dynasty league when i was supposed to be able to draft emma johnson and i couldn't because of the roster thing i wanted emma johnson i knew how good he was in round two um i wanted that my rb2 in the class he's so good he should be rostered in every league we mean jacob talk about this every day of every week but there's in my mind no better handcuff to have in fantasy football he's the good at football and walker has a no history of being a workhorse some more meaningful players christian mccaffrey 80 percent snap rate eight out of ten running back touches in the first half of this game it was a blowout win so it looked like the same usage as week one um they were given jordan james the ball in the fourth quarter up by 30 it's not it wasn't the same i'm sorry mccaffrey mccaffrey yeah yeah i i guess the only hesitation i have is that calon black was came into the game with an injury he was questionable all week so i like i was also happy about it encouraged i know the yards per carry weren't great but i mean he's working at the goal line it was great stuff but yeah i just want to see what happens if we get a normal week of practice for calon black um i want to talk about parker washington i it's just insane what we've seen yeah so across the six most recent games which is like starting last year with that win against denver until the most recent game against denver the dude has averaged almost four yards per out run like if you look at his efficiency metrics they're basically just jsn puka level stuff um he has a 20 his his lowest game across the past six game his last week's this week's game 17 ppr points that's his worst game across his past six including the playoffs um if you just look at like since he became a full-time player it's 15 points per game across this past six games it's 20 points per game like he's just been unstoppable he's been super consistent he creates extra yards after the catch um even in a game where jacksonville kind of fell apart after the beginning of the game they should have won this game was just like a stupid loss for them i they stopped throwing him the ball i don't know what the hell that was he had nine targets in the first half and then they stopped going to the thing that works the best and started going to btj and he it's just like what you know how this goes like what i don't know um yeah brian thomas jr is only playing in three receiver sets by the way like did not play a single didn't run a single route from two receiver sets so that's gonna leave him leave him pretty - Yes. - Who are they coming after? Who's got the sirens? not me that's me in the background i don't know what's going on out there um bayshaltun sticking with the jags uh sixth in the nfl in yards after contact on the year ahead of bijan robinson just behind jonathan taylor yards after contact is something that liam cohen talks about all the time um he had three of their five touches in the red zone this week for the whole team not just running backs there was a target to look went down in the red zone that he dropped and chris rodriguez got a red zone touch but like i just think we're gonna see him win out here i think he's the best player um and liam cohen has had four running backs over the past two seasons that have been top 20 in fantasy points in the red zone so like even if it doesn't consolidate to him we've seen multiple instances of two backs being really relevant in the red zone and there's a chance that it does consolidate i think just to toot and because he's their best back um we'll see rodriguez you know obviously there's familiarity there but he hasn't looked like he's adding a whole lot relate to this point whereas tootin has yeah and he got a one-yard touchdown run which was encouraging a design play which is that's like liam cohen is i think maybe the best in the league or at least he has been at like designing red zone touchdowns for running backs that are just really easy walking touchdowns pretty awesome stuff yeah direct snap to him cool anything else no i mean that's that's pretty much it all right dan you got anything i have plenty of stuff but got a lot coming for the four big topics so i'll save it for that all right uh juwan johnson i don't know what happened here he went from an 82 route rate to 59 but he did have a higher target charity just missed the touchdown looking at oscar delp came back but he didn't play much but like maybe that changed it a little bit no offense he's running more routes yeah too uh the bears route participation rates romo dunes a 93 percent khalif raymond 78 percent luther bird and 73 percent colson loveland 71 percent loveland led the team in route rate in week one i'm thinking maybe he was blocking more because you know minnesota blitzes every play basically uh watching him just get overwhelmed by d uh by dallas and the last but yeah dallas turner the last play was just like so brutal on top of everything like i don't know it's obvious it's like so easy to blame him and then like literally for it to end like that was just like oh my gosh it couldn't be worse yeah but he but he was he should have probably had a touchdown on the play where where caleb got hurt i don't know if he's going to be able to do that but i think i don't know why caleb didn't throw it to him uh but we'll talk about that a little bit later montgomery and woody marks played about the same amount of snaps i mentioned this montgomery got the first three carries of the game but it was pretty you know marks outplayed him after that or played more than him after that travion henderson didn't run a route on third down he did play four snaps on third down they were all run plays cleveland route participation rate denzel boston 94 harold fan at 83 casey concepcion 74 and quinch on judkins jerry jude was there too whatever quinch on judkins jerry jude was there too whatever quinch on judkins jerry jude was there too 46 percent route rate this is now four straight games dating back to last year including one where he left with an injury where quinch on judkins has run more than 40 percent of the routes he did not do that in any of the first 12 games of his career came close but he is more involved in the passing game and he's got four or more targets in three of his last four games quinch on judkins dating back to 2025 uh you know it's obviously not looking great for him but deshaun watson has definitely been much better than i expected since the first quarter of week one he could be horrible i recognize that i hope better times are ahead for quinch on judkins i'm not putting out any buy low offers but if you're a depressed quinch on judkins manager at least there's some some positives to take away um ted hearst played over jaylen mcmillan for tampa bay lad mcconkey ran 90 of the routes in week one before his injury 71 yesterday he was playing hurt and they took him off the field at times um and does anybody have an explanation for that i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know for the backfield splits in washington rashad white played 52 percent of the snap rashad white was basically a non-factor to the point where i was like man jacoski merit or jacory kroski merrick fumbled in week one and they put katron allen in i don't even know what the heck rashad white is doing on the team and this week he plays 52 of the snaps jacory kroski merritt plays 37 percent of the snaps rashad white was in near the goal line i don't even know i don't know what happened here this is what jacob was worried about with bill kroski merritt before the year and it kind of played out exactly the same way he was worried about jacoski merritt before the as he said when the game script falls to this level and it wasn't like this in week one where they're kind of in the game the whole time against the eagles when it falls to this level we're not going to see a lot of bill and that's pretty much exactly what we saw in this game i still don't know if it's going to make white that relevant if we have mariota for an extended period of time and i i know they said jayden will play again this year but i don't i guess he'll play again and they'll bring him back and then hope he just doesn't get hurt i assume he needs surgery eventually for this i don't even know but they're not going to be able to do it this year so it's kind of like last year we'll come back and then hopefully it just doesn't get hurt somehow i don't know how you do that as a quarterback at the nfl level with your elbow like that but if it's mariota for an extended period of time i bill is borderline droppable for me oh not there yet not there yet let's see what i don't know how he scores it's like it's not that bad like mariota mariota averaged 7.5 yards per attempt last season jane daniels average scheme yeah jane daniels averaged 7.5 yards per attempt last season jane daniels averaged 7.5 yards per attempt last season 7.4 yards per attempt in his rookie season i'm not saying he's better or anything but mario is not a bad you could do worse at backup quarterback yeah you could do definitely worse for sure all right we'll get into the four big topics when we come back we're going to talk about how the mighty have fallen george pickens devon h and colson loveland we'll talk about the chargers the patriots always negative stuff here and some of the rookies yeah right um i mean it's a really weird week right there are a bunch of injuries a bunch of injuries a bunch of people played really poorly i was just looking around at like the leaders and it was like wow this is really low scoring week there were guys that i didn't think had good games and they were like top 12 of their position yeah interesting yeah all right um we'll be right back on fantasy football today welcome back folks all right our first big topic it comes from what's your name dude nfl robbie says have the mighty fallen examples pickens still a top 15 wide receiver h and still a top 12 running back lovely still a top 12 tight end dan what are the answers to those three questions is george pickens top 15 i still believe more so in pickens than i do any of the other three um and i'll say pickens because i still feel like we're in a similar spot with the cowboys where they're a not so good on defense maybe a tiny bit better b going to be playing in these high octane shootouts and c dac looks like to me one of the best quarterbacks in the nfl i know people don't hate to hear that because he's never won the playoffs and he throws picks in the playoffs whatever it is but in the regular season he processes fast as hell man and he looked that was the best tape i think of any quarterback all season dex tape especially the first half against the commanders yesterday so points will come for pickens uh especially if defenses start to adjust to take away lamb which they have in the past if that happens pickens will have continued one-on-ones and dax the type of quarterback who loves to do that if you're taking away one player that will just out process you and throw the other player so i'm still high on pickens i was never high on h and to begin with he was on my avoid list and drafted many where um it's not worse than i thought it would be this is about what i thought it would be i see that the yards per carry is way down from past seasons 3.7 in week two 3.3 in week one or the reverse of that the targets were there sort of in week one not as much last week just generally speaking this offense kind of stinks um and it's hard to buy into players on bad offenses so i was never in on him i don't think he's top 12 rest of season there's too many guys who have stepped up at running back loveland top 12 is interesting because it doesn't take much to be a top 12 fantasy tight end but we're getting performances that we didn't expect from guys down the board likely kelsey among others um even you could say dalton schultz for as long as nico collins is out is probably a more reliable player than loveland somehow the caleb news helps that he's not so badly hurt uh top 12 is more doable i'd say on my panic meter it's number one hn number two or number one hn as far as being a top 12 guy number two loveland as far as being a top 12 guy is not so hard to be a top 12 guy and then pickens is not a big concern of mine okay i will say that hn was running back six and expected fantasy points this past week he had six targets um he's running back 12 on the year and expected fantasy points according to the fantasy points status model and i just think it's i i don't know for sure because miami could just be so bad that it holds down his efficiency but it just feels like he's so good that it's hard for him to like be underwhelming in xfp all year long and so if he continues to have like a top 12 role in terms of like on paper what you would expect given these touches and where they're coming because the model knows where the touches are coming you know it knows that a rush attempt from the 60 or from the 40 yard line or whatever isn't worth that much you know like it quantifies red zone touches and stuff like that and so i i just would think that like if if on paper he's basically the thesis behind drafting him where you did is like we don't know how it's gonna look miami might be terrible but he's so good and he's gonna get 300 plus touches so we'll be fine over the course of the full year even if we have to have some bad games i think is the idea behind drafting him you and i didn't really draft him that much i don't have a single share either me either not to me nothing has changed with hn um it's exactly what we expected and so i don't really know why anything would be changing with hn and so i don't really know why anything would be changing with hn and so i don't really With our perception of him, that feels reactionary to just- just more bad fantasy totals what i just think it's because there's more good running backs that have emerged behind him that's the only reason for me as far as top 12 yeah well if you think about how the draft was right like let's let's put genti back in this top 12 we always said there's these top 12 running backs just happen to be the number 12 uh that are first and second round picks that you know we'd love to get two of them if we could we definitely want to get one of them listen that right and and hn was in that you know for us more toward the back but for a lot of people right in the middle of it and you know hampton and walker and whatever now we've got guys behind where we've seen giovante williams didn't have a great game but he has you know the best some of the best usage on the cow and he's on the cowboys andre swift without caleb no no i assuming caleb is is healthy i think without caleb i mean they're still gonna run the ball really well i think i don't know if he's gonna need caleb for the explosiveness of them scoring swift is a touchdown maker though it's more than on that i think i would take hn over swift rest of season if caleb's fine he had 20 carries and six targets this week like he could have this one this begs me to ask you the hn question because what are they worth on a team that doesn't score points i don't i think we'll see i mean would you take swift over bijan because he has like the exact same majorly concerning as well not to spend no he's not of course he was on a crap offense last year and he was rb it wasn't as crap because they don't have their quarterback yet all right okay so if you tell me pennix is ready to go and the fact that he's not able to play the first two weeks but he'll certainly somehow be fine when he goes it could be bad dude it could be like pennix is not the pennix we saw last year then what because they can't go to rush and they can't go to strand and then if pennix like they have two uh they have two at some point i guess he's gonna get so many touches and so many catches he's gonna be fine pennix was bad last year but he was able to move the ball a little bit hn is gonna be fine too look hn is gonna be fine but the fact that him not being a top 12 running back sounds worse than i think it is when you consider that he was basically toward the back end of a tier of 12 running back so all it takes is a few guys in the next tier to move ahead of him i mean i don't think we'd be surprised if bucky irving were better at this point wouldn't be surprised if giovante and deandre swift were better at this point breeze hall maybe then and i used breeze hall as an example for devon a chan on wednesday's show when we did the worryometer breeze hall in 2023 he was the number five running back per game and half ppr number six per game in full ppr he was top three overall in those formats and his offense was the 30th they scored 13.9 points per game and they had garrett wilson who had 168 targets and guess what he scored 15.7 points in week one breeze hall that year and then the next three games he combined for 14.5 fantasy points and the next three games he rolled off three straight games of 20 or more points and that's kind of i just don't think you're going to get consistency from hn like you used to but i don't i don't think the chat is interpreting what i said right at all i'm not trading bijan i'm not panicking on bijan at all obviously he's a phenomenal player but until he gets semi-competent quarterback play his ceiling is wildly capped he scored like a 50 points i know week one 30 points a week one the chat's going off i get it he had that week but then he had a week like this as well so it's not like every you know this is not at the level of gibbs with actual competent offense there's going to be weeks like this but of course like if pennix is back or they stabilize somewhat i don't think the chat is interpreting what i said right at all i'm not trading bijan i'm not quarterback it should be fine all right he's bijan robinson scored 11.1 points yesterday he scored fewer than that four times last year right that's that's a quarter of his games it it happens i mean i'm just saying it happens you know even to the best of them yeah all right i think all this is a point about hn basically yeah like yeah his longest play this year is 17 yards he only has two plays that are longer than 10 yards like breeze hall this week had like what one yard per carry or whatever but he had a good fantasy game he had 14 points he's like running back eight or something and a terrible game just because he had some big plays as a receiver he had six sketches i think hn could do that i don't i'm not buying low on hn but i'm also not panicking if i have him i just like wish i had taken ken walker instead yeah for sure probably i would have absolutely yeah yeah i had him ranked considerably higher that's fair on pickens real quick i don't know if we really talked about him much i do think there's some relevant context i'm not i don't see him as like being worth worrying about at all um i guess with hn and love that that's fair especially if the caleb injury is serious um but pickens has a 21 target share you mentioned his target per outrun rate is higher than it has been um the cowboys only have 106 plays yeah across two games on offense only the browns and titans have fewer and they have 104 and 100 so they're basically like the fewest plays in the league is where the cowboys are last year they led the nfl in plays per game and i think that that's a more realistic expectation than being near the bottom they're also first in the league in pass rate over expectation so given the circumstances of any given play um are they passing or running relative to like what you'd expect they're by far the highest and that's that so i think everything is set up really well it's just been a weird result yep and they have the sixth six fastest pace so um they had one kind of blowout win and one game where they barely had the ball it's lowered their pass attempts only stat i saw from pickens that concerned me 34.4 percent of his routes have been go routes according to true media and those are bad routes we don't want that last year it was 22 but two game sample size i won't panic he's like the definition of the player you don't worry about that with though like i worry about that with like every single receiver except for him basically or like jamar or something you'd rather them have a good role but like he can't succeed within that role we saw last year all right let's get four minutes here on the next topic patriots the patriots are in trouble offensively says robert and you know what robert i think i'd have to agree with you but i also think yesterday was was bad weather um drake may only threw 22 times they had a defensive touchdown they didn't have to do much but they just don't have a lot of talent on this team and they just lost their right tackle probably for the year dan what are you thinking about the patriots how much trouble is this offense in and is drake may a sit until further notice he's at jacksonville this week i watched this entire game and i actually came away pretty enthused with what may put on tape there are moments where you're like okay maybe he's not seeing it fast enough and that's been the discussion like have teams adjusted enough but there's still the moments that make him shine where he's just like standing in the pocket and he's understanding like because his offensive line has been really bad that's the biggest concern for rest of season for fantasy for me this patriots offensive line looks as bad as it looked to me at the end of last season and now they just had a major injury but he'll stand in a pocket and deliver a ball to eli raritan that's some like despite not having a balanced base not being able to set his feet he puts it right there for raritan to make the catch great and then he'll like navigate the pocket later in the game create a chance to win the game and then he'll be able to escape and find dobs down the field for 67 or whatever it was and it looks like the same magical player at times but overall this offense is going to take a step back without aj brown and people might look at it like well last year they didn't have aj brown i hate to say it but like a player like kashon booty was something they lost like losing him was not in my mind good for this offense because dobs is not the same kind of player on the outside and at this point they're not giving kyle williams enough opportunities to potentially be that player and so defense is a shrunk the field and digs too and digs as well of course that's like a different a different aspect of what they were able to do but it's a big one as well and so teams are playing them a little differently i think we'll see trait like the run game probably benefit the most by the way that teams are going to play the patriots uh specifically because they're in gun a lot and there's a lot of opportunity i think to create big plays out of that as we saw with henderson in this game but right now from a fantasy standpoint drake may is not scrambling as much as he was and there's just not as many explosive playmakers and there's a lot of opportunity to create big plays i'm not that worried about it from what i saw i thought may look pretty good and i thought the connection with dobs was much improved from week one to week two like that's a player on my radar moving forward dobs especially for at least for the weeks that brown is out but it's not going to be the same offense it was last year at all and the matchups are much harder which definitely plays a role as people obviously noted right i think that's important they face seattle and pittsburgh so that's gonna make their pass rush look bad but losing their right tackle now he's being replaced by morgan moses who's very experienced player but had his hands full yesterday with tj watt obviously but this week like i'm avoiding them i think jacksonville has a pretty good defense i'm avoiding the patriots for the most part this week i'm sitting drake may again at buffalo i think you know they're gonna have to throw a lot that game and then raiders jets at the bears at miami starts to get pretty damn good and in the midst of that you might get aj brown returning i will say i am very concerned about aj brown because like high ankle sprains yeah so i think they they have kind of a bad reputation high ankle sprains and i've already given examples of players who didn't really lose any efficiency after missing three weeks with a high ankle sprain in the past saquon barkley jonathan taylor and last year's cd lamb and i would say jeremiah love to me looks pretty damn good right now but this is obviously a more severe high ankle sprain and that does have me concerned about aj brown i'm trying to offload my aj brown chairs i don't know how this is going to work out i could be totally wrong about it but um i don't i just i i think he might not be the player that we hoped i i am concerned about the patriots offense i think they're going to struggle uh especially in the short term but henderson and versus stevenson will be the split we're all focusing on next week and hunter henry five targets which is actually a lot he led the team in targets they only threw 22 passes rariton's hurt um he ran a ton of routes so definitely a waiver wire guy kashon booty had the highest passer rating when targeted as the first three target last year behind only jaylen coker in the whole nfl among qualified receivers so to dan's point i think him and then also losing aj brown is pretty tough especially if you are you refuse to play kyle williams then yeah i don't know good luck with matt collins or whatever jacob um wes whose twitter name is hi my name is wes hello Wes thanks for coming by what's up Wes wants to know what to do with these rookies so I'm gonna give you a rookie and you tell me buy sell hold drop pick up whatever stash carnell tate uh chill and pick them up in a few weeks jordan jeremiah love damn every time jeremiah love I'd buy I'd trade for love but again I think he's gonna probably be even less valuable in a week or two I think people are nearing the fever pitch of panic we're not quite there yet Casey Concepcion uh he's great I think he's playing exactly how you can expect I don't think his role is going to change much maybe at some point he plays ahead of Jerry Judy and two receiver sets right now he's only playing in this slot they're getting him design targets as a catch and run guy he's very good at that so whatever you want to do with that I just don't want the browns really Denzel Boston yeah so he's very good I still think he's an ad though I mean 52% rostered you could sell him for something better but I think he's worth rostering um and then Jonah Coleman with JK Dobbins apparently good to go it looks like JK Dobbins probably gonna play this week but Jonah Coleman nice game for the Broncos yeah um he was getting in there already I think he might be their best running back and Dobbins hasn't looked quite like himself this year I think Coleman has a lot of juice he can pass protect he can also play on passing downs as a receiver um he can do short yardage stuff he's really complete running back I think that we're only gonna see more and more of Coleman this year I have a couple different thoughts the first would be and just on two players and not different with Coleman Coleman I thought had great vision on the cutbacks to me kind of look like a younger version of what I saw from Dobbins both at Ohio State with the Ravens remind me a little bit of like a young MJD MJD Maurice Jones drew for a throwback low center of gravity understanding where to cut back when to come back when to bust outside but also has that ability to kind of like narrow his um I guess narrow his path to get extra yards really good or really good debut for me watching his film I didn't watch his week one tape Boston for me is actually a bye I'm really high on what I saw from Denzel Boston I watched that entire tape I thought he had excellent timing on an intermediate back shoulder with Watson the fact that Watson's already throwing him back shoulders was interesting to me I counted three times where Watson went to him on third downs uh that to me is extremely important there was almost another touchdown for Boston on a third and six red zone fade vert that he just wasn't able to come down with that would have made the game even bigger obviously the big play touchdown was some bad tackling it was also great contact balance burst post catch I thought he did a great job of running that route too he had to get it it was a really tight coverage throw by Deshaun one of the best throws he's made in years and Boston had to run a really precise route to get to that spot and he did and then there was a late third down where they had uh Casey Concepcion come in motion so they could guarantee that they would get the right leverage from the outside corner and it was just a quick out to Boston but Boston was the guy they designed that play for and I just think we can't forget how good Todd Munkin is all the advanced stats all the metrics show he's been one of the best five play callers and play designers over the last two seasons as bad as the Browns are I feel like a Boston was the go-to guy on third downs be he's showing great timing and rapport and building a timing report with with Deshaun Watson and see you still have Todd Munkin so Boston for me is somebody I'm really interested in moving forward based on what I saw on tape and you could discredit the the fluky touchdown he had bouncing off tacklers that's fair but he also had a six he almost had a 16 yard touchdown up the left sideline and just didn't wasn't able to hang on to it so he's becoming a pretty looks like a favorite target for Deshaun Watson who is not playing a variety of ways by the way the outbreaking routes he had a comeback route he had the vertical route you talked about and then that deep in cut there was just a lot of different routes that he won on which I like I would also say that look this guy's by no means a must roster player but if you're in a deeper league I wouldn't give up on Caleb Douglas he had a bad game and you know they had they had a bad game at San Francisco but he played again he ran pretty much all the routes and we think he's a pretty talented player so it's going to be 49ers defense is legit this year too might be one of the better in the NFL I'd like to see them play a team that's not the Dolphins and a team that's not sleep deprived did you see that he had a boot on after the game oh no is that Douglas did oh how the hell did I not see that no I didn't say I'm sorry about that all right well both those guys are good it's just like I don't know it's just like Cardinal Tate like I just I've got a really hard time buying into these offenses I think there's a real chance these are the best games Boston has no matter how good he is right we kind of thought you know some of these rookie wide receivers just didn't go to the best spots but at least they're not on the Chargers our last big topic what is wrong with the Chargers offense they had three drops they had eight penalties they had the second worst pressure rate allowed they had their right tackle Joe Alt had a terrible game apparently and it's Arizona and the Chargers Arizona and the Raiders to start the year this is going to be amazing well it really hasn't been amazing Jacob you can go first I think you're going to spew a lot of hatred right now direction of the Los Angeles Chargers yeah I watched this game it was pretty rough but I think it's I think it's mostly the line honestly and there were it could have been so much different I it's it's it was a really frustrating game if you like want to believe in it so just like throughout the game I can just take you through what happened there was Brendan Thompson dropped this perfect throw from Herbert at the beginning the game would have been a 25-yard gain to move the chains they end up getting into third and three on that possession it's Thompson again massive win at the top of his route wide open for a 20-plus yard gain Herbert steps up avoids two pass rushers delivers the ball perfectly and around a gas and tries to intercept it and then like the next drive third and five perfect pass to in Joku any freaking like volleyball sets it like alley-oops it to the Raiders for an intercept and it's just like here we go like that it's yep like we're all nervous heading into the afternoon games that it's going to be bad again next drive starts at the one yard line and of course their line can't block so they just try to run the ball it doesn't work they punt next drive third and 11 to McConkie finally like we actually get something moving a little bit here um the line creates some room to run we're actually moving Hampton caps it off the touchdown it's like okay this is kind of what we thought it could look like but that was like the only good drive for the whole freaking game um two minute drill perfect ball to QJ along the sideline right in his hands would have been 18 yards dropped that one uh there's the Trey Harris play third and one in the third quarter he's in motion they snap the ball into his leg as he's like in motion and Herbert gets credited with a fumble he has three fumbles on the game one of them was that um and at that point I think it's just kind of over like it's really really derailed and it's the everybody's kind of panicking it really does seem like Herbert is uh in panic mode a little bit at this time and so that's where you get to the I think the the sack fumble that everybody kind of saw in red zone where he's like trying to stiff arm the guy um that was a that was the first truly bad Herbert play I saw so in week one I was actually really critical of Herbert I thought he did not play well um but he was still pretty accurate in that game for the most part there were a couple of bad misses but he was pretty accurate and in this game I thought he was very accurate again I'm curious what the charting looks like but to me he threw it well throughout the game until that Trey Harris play and then it all fell apart um so on that fumble he has Trey Harris wide open and doesn't take it and then immediately there's a free blitzer coming and he decides to try to like make the rollout hero play to the right and fumbles and luckily they get it it could have easily been a touchdown and it just keeps getting worse then you you miss QJ along the sideline I think a lot of people saw all this stuff at the end of the game and so it feels a lot worse than it was but really this didn't have to be this way man like it really spiraled out of control and at the end of the game it's like there's the the play where he fumbles trying to do the stiff arm and then there's the freaking Amari Hampton fumble and I just feel like the vibes at that point were so out of control bad just horrific it was just so over at that point and then it all culminates in the second straight week of Herbert for some reason trying to fit it into five foot eight pound Darius Davis a double coverage for an interception to end the game it's just like what is going on and so now we're at the point we are today where everybody is like Mike McDaniel is not going to make it through the season Justin Herbert and his his girlfriend's the problem he's her wife he's he's an idiot he's terrible like I don't know I think all the players are good except for the line the line's playing terrible I don't think the players are that good though I do I don't think the McConkie is good he's McConkie's very good they don't have an explosive you know they don't have an explosive receiver like Quentin Johnson's not that good he's fine I don't know I I think their talent's overrated McConkie's really really good I think Trey Harris is actually really good he played really well in this game he didn't play great in the first game but I played really well today he's like wide open for a big play you know and ran I I mean I'll trust you on that he got himself he was open a lot he was open a lot I I don't think he's a really good blocker I think he's just a good player and then Brendan Thompson I think is actually really good too he was winning repeatedly he had a bad drop at the beginning of the game but like he's actually good if you have to go to him I don't know man I mean I think so it might be good but this is not I don't think he's one of the most talented offenses I think it can be but I don't think it is right now for a lot of reasons from what I saw on the tape Jacob did a great job going over how stupid these drives ended but there was one more stupid one where Herbert goes to the play side on a two-man concept trying to find McConkie it's not there he somehow finds a way to navigate the pocket step through it and throw to a wide open Thompson and Gadsden like thinks the ball's coming for him and like oh you said that when I was third and three I was at the beginning of the game that was the beginning yeah I missed that one but that's another one and Thompson missed the drop earlier it was a really bad drop you had the joke I put all five of the plays on Twitter that ended drives that were either horrific drops by Johnston Thompson, uh, Johnson on another, and then the stupid fumble snap on third and one that killed the drive. But they're also playing at a slow pace, which is not helpful. And I think the bigger issue that I have right now, outside of what Jacob said is, is Mike McDaniel a fake sharp? I'm starting to wonder that because this offensive design does not fit Herbert's skillset. There's way too many of these slow, long developing play action passes with a bad interior offense line. But where the time where like Herbert turns his back to the defense, by the time he turns around, the pressure is like right in his face. And it's like, all right, you might've developed a good route combination behind this play action pass McDaniel, but there's no time for it. So now we're all scheduled immediately. There's also times where Herbert, who I think has looked way less comfortable in the pocket than I've seen him since last season, when the offensive line broke down is just missing reads, like missing open in breakers and over routes on the backside of digs that on the backside of routes that I usually see him understand the concept of and hit, but he's not. Because he looks a little more, I guess, I don't want to say the word panic, but just uncomfortable in the pocket than he's used to because his offensive line is bad. But then there's also stats that kind of back up the idea of like, maybe it's not all there for McDaniel as it used to be. Um, and then these are, uh, courtesy of Pat Thorman, who's really good at doing this. And he said, Mike McDaniel, neutral pass rates with Tua 2022, 63% second in the NFL, 2023, 62% fourth in the NFL. This is when he was actually an amazing offensive coordinator in my mind. And they were actually an explosive offense that I thought they would be with a player like Herbert last two seasons. He's been 18th and 22nd with Justin Herbert 31st in neutral pass rate through the first two weeks. The chargers are 31st in neutral script drop back rate with the Rams still pending tonight. Another one that he had is related to that. The chargers have a league worst minus 19.7 EPA as a rushing off in through two weeks. So for some reason, he's running the ball neutral game scripts more than all, but one team. And they've been one of the worst, if not the worst so far, the league worst team at running the football, um, in through the first two weeks. So I don't know what is going on. I think personally, they need to do some of the stuff that Herbert was, was great with in the past, instead of just leaning fully into the things that McDaniel thinks will work to me. It's like, he's running the Tua offense for Herbert, which I don't know, but the more recent two offense, the two offense before it was, you know, Waddle and Hill, not the 2022, 23 version, like the more recent version, which maybe is because he doesn't trust his offensive line. McDaniel, that could be the case. I don't know, but this is not working schematically at all right now. And I feel like Jacob was spot on with Herbert through a lot of on-target passes. I mean, you could, someone tweeted, I tweeted the cutup Adam and Jacob, and someone's like, ah, that Njoku pass was a little bit thrown under thrown. I'm like, dude, he's throwing a far hash rip 35 yards down the field. 90% of NFL quarterbacks would be under thrown to the point of intercepted or not even trying that throw the ball hits Njoku in the, in the chest, in two hands, it pops it up. For an interception. I mean, I don't know, man. All right. Well, I think there's their sixth and running back rush success, right? The EPA is because of the fumbles. Okay. The, uh, the dolphins, it's a fair counter. It's a Pat's tweet. That's fair. But the neutral pass, the run rate still is really high. Let me tell you his first year with the dolphins, 2022. Um, if they started, this is the points per game, 20, 42, nine, uh, 21, 15, 17, 16, 16 to pretty bad for the first seven games. Then 31, 35, 39, 30, 17, 17, 29, 20 to a gets hurt. 21 Bridgewater gets hurt. 11. They got better in the second half of the year. And there's a article from the LA times. It says Mike McDaniel's complicated scheme is turning chargers offense into a disaster. I mean, it's possible. They just need time to adjust to it. It is possible. Yeah. I will say one player I'm very worried about though is a player was super high on Quinton Johnson. The reason being the reason I liked him so much was the improvements he made throughout his career, specifically last season. Right now he looks like a player who's playing without confidence. The concentration drops are back. This is back to back weeks. And I think it's a big problem because that was what he was in his rookie season. He was a player who was playing unconfidently and that could happen to players throughout their career, more so corners than receivers, but you see it with receivers as well. So he was a player super high on and I, and I'm very worried about right now. All right. If they can have all the random stuff, not happen with all the drops and everything. And then also if lad can be healthy, I think that they could be fine. Um, QJ is not playing very well, but I honestly do think that they can replace him with the guys that I said, Trey Harris, Brennan Thompson, even keep Mitchell on some of the drags and stuff like that is fine. They've been lining him up at receiver a lot. I don't disagree that they could be better, but I've run into this problem on this particular show where I've looked at teams. That are struggling. And I've gone through the tape and I've been like, Oh, well they had this play. It was a drop. They had a penalty here and you know what happens? They keep messing up. Yeah. And also a lot of teams that are doing well on offense also have these types of setbacks during the game, but they're good enough to compensate for it. Right. We can't have a team with the chargers where it's like, everything has to go right for them to be okay. And meanwhile, they just played the Raiders and the Cardinals. And next up they've got the bills, which I think they're going to have a lot of fun and I think it's going to be, I think they're going to have a lot of fun. I think they're going to have a lot of fun and I think they're going to have a lot of fun. Yeah. I'm pretty freaking concerned here. Great point. Yeah. Yeah. Schedule is horrible. And yeah, if I had to guess, it's probably like 75% over like 25% chance it could get better, but probably not happening. Yeah. Probably gonna go bad. Um, all right. You still start McConkie with confidence and Hampton with confidence. I don't know. I only had like a 40% route rate. I don't, I mean, Hampton, you still for sure. Hampton. Yeah. Yeah. I'm talking about McConkie. I just don't know when, when he's back and they're letting him play. Sure. Yeah. I think it's 70% route rate. Uh, maybe I saw that right. Maybe I saw 40% snap, right. You could be right. Okay. Either way, they weren't doing as much of the over the middle stuff. Um, like when he got over the middle target, he immediately went down. Like it just seemed like they were trying to protect them on that 19 yarder. Yep. Okay. Thanks guys. Great show today. Fun stuff. Even though it was all depressing. That's what the people want. They asked us about the pressing teams. They always, yeah, they always want to know more about the players who are doing poorly than the players who were doing well. I would love to talk about Bryce young today, but that'll be tomorrow on the waiver wire show. Thanks for watching. Listening to be on the box score. We'll talk to you tomorrow on fantasy football today. Paramount podcasts.