Week 2 Hangover: The Chiefs are back, the Seahawks look dominant, and the Steelers are sad

Welcome to the athletic football show brought to you by the US bank smartly visa signature card. I'm Robert Mays. The week two hangover today, me and Derek dug into three games that we did not get to in depth on the Sunday night recap. Chiefs Colts, Seahawks cardinals, and Patriots dealers. Let's get to that conversation with me and Derek right now, digging into three games today from the week two slate that we did not have the time or space to really chew on during our week two recap. Derek, we spent some time talking about the end of the Sunday night game at the beginning of our recap show last night. I don't think we have to rehash the decisions that Shane stipend was making and over time and what the Colts decided to do in kicking that field goal. If you guys want to hear our thoughts about that entire situation, you can go back and listen to the yesterday's show. I want to spend most of this conversation really digging into the nuts and bolts of what this game felt like for the first four and a half quarters, let's say. I want to start by floating a theory to you that I started ruminating on after a week one and I think the Colts game really crystallized for me yesterday. I actually did my morning brew video about it like 20 minutes ago that you guys can watch on our social media probably tomorrow. There was a moment last year early in the season when I was watching the bill's offense and I was watching the way the tight ends were blocking and it was kind of a light bulb moment where I was like I think that good offenses you can feel like this isn't a true for everybody, but you can feel the good offenses by which tight ends are capable committed blockers and that proved to be so true over the course of the season at the 13 personnel stuff and then into this off season. This year, it's going to be linebackers. Yes. The good and bad defenses are going to be dictated by what your linebackers can do in space and in coverage because we've gotten back to this place and the chiefs you watch the chiefs offense and what the chiefs offense specifically is doing. The chiefs ran seven play action passes from under center yesterday. That is the most tied for the most in a single game during Patrick Mahomes's tenure. So they are such a good example of where the league has swung back to, but we're still in a place where everyone's playing too high and playing with fewer defenders and blockers in the box. And so we're in this moment where the structural stuff has swung back for offense, but not all the way for defense. And then you add layers on top of it. The number that really stuck out to me through two weeks this season teams have used motion at the snap on 44% of run place per next gen. It was 27% in 2020. So I legitimately, when you think about the changes on offense and the changes on defense, think it is harder to play linebacker in coverage right now than it has been at any point since I started covering the sport. And we're going to really feel the difference between the teams that have skimped at that position and have no answers and the teams that have guys that can live in the conflict that offenses are creating for them. And the cults to me are the purest example of that that we could possibly see right now. We're going to talk about a number of teams today where I think that's true. We'll get to the Steelers and their linebackers later. But I do think that like the cults have been a huge, I mean, it's two weeks now in a row where teams have just picked on them very, very badly both in the passing game with some of the movement stuff that they're doing and some of the play action stuff, getting tight ends running out. I want to say to I think obviously what the chiefs do with their tight ends is not going to be like the bills. They are not asking them to block the way that those guys are blocking. But I do think that what they're doing with their tight ends right now is kind of interesting. You saw in this game, a lot of like full house pistol stuff where you can have these guys. It's like, okay, are they both going to slice left? Are they going to split out to either direction? You can use them as like chippers that way. I think using them in we don't know where they're going to go post snap. I think is like a useful way to use guys who are not great blockers. And I think that the chiefs did a really good job of that in this game. There was also a handful of plays where they would put Travis Kelsey where he's almost in line, but he is standing next to the line of scrimmage. And then he like kind of chips the end. And then he goes out into just like a little slot quick out route. They hit that multiple times. They hit it once on like a really critical. I think third and seven. And then I think it over time they hit it again. And Kelsey just ends up dropping it. But like you finding those ways to make their tight ends useful. I thought was was really important. The last thing to I would say about the linebacker stuff. I think playing coverage in this league as a linebacker has kind of always been impossible. I guess it's just an incredibly difficult thing to do. But I think now the added thing what you're talking about where so many teams are living in too high. You are even more incentivized to be able to come down and take space back as a linebacker. A lot of these guys can't do that, man. Like a lot of these guys just can't do that while also being useful coverage players. A lot of the guys are either one or the other. And I would say in the case of the Colts, they're really neither. And you really feel that over the course of this game. That's the conflict that I'm talking about when you're in that conflict. If there are some guys that as soon as they take a step forward, the play is over. Like they're it's it's always lost. And I think the teams that don't have linebackers, you feel that way about we're going to notice those teams over the course of this year. Let's bring it back to the specific. The first drive of this game. The chiefs are just ripping across their off-play action over the middle of the field. And the fact that the chiefs are trying to live that way to me again is such an indication broadly of where the league is going. And I think that brings me to with this the broader conversation I want to have about the chiefs. It seems like Andy Reed and Travis Kelsey got their group back. Dude, Kelsey, Kelsey looks like listen, we're never going to get the explosiveness top end speedback, but he looks so smooth again. Like exactly exactly the adjective that I used on the touchdown. He looks like Travis Kelsey. Like the smoothness that we usually attribute to Travis Kelsey is amazing. I can't remember who made this joke on Twitter yesterday. I want to give them credit, but I can't remember right now. He got in wedding shape and then just wrote it into the season. You know, I spent a lot of time with anybody who's gotten married understands that exact process. So I respect the fact that Andy Reed or Travis Kelsey just Andy Reed did not by the way. Just no, no offense to Andy Reed, but I respect the fact that Travis Kelsey just got in wedding shape and then wrote it right into the NFL season because he does look so much smoother than he has probably for the last like two years. I agree. And again, like how much is he going to run away from people the way that he used to? I don't know, but there were even a couple of cases in this game where he makes the first guy miss and squeezes like four or five extra yards out of the play, which like he could still do that a little bit the last handful of years, but it just felt like the regularity with which he did it in this game. I was like, okay, if he's actually going to be that reliable of a chain mover for them, getting one or two good plays out of the other guys. Like it actually makes the offense a little bit more viable. I think I still have my questions about whether or not this receiver core is going to be able to do this consistently, especially with like I think some of the colds DBs were just kind of like struggling pretty badly in this game. How well they're going to the chiefs are going to be able to uphold that over the course of the season. I don't know, but this is what the offense is supposed to look like. It's funny that the chiefs are now in a place where I wonder what they'll be able to do on third down because that's always where my homes has been in his best, but that those are the moments where you're not going to be able to lean on the run game. You're not going to be able to lean on play action. You're going to guys are going to have to get open in one-on-one man covered situations. And the colds played a decent amount of man coverage yesterday, not a crazy amount that we've gotten used to them playing. Essentially, since they traded for sauce gardener, there was the one third down play where rice just got totally caught up against man coverage. But for the most part, the the chiefs did a lot of their damaging zone coverage on early downs, which or against weird funky cover two looks on the third and long. That was the other that's both of the third and plays. I think came against like funky cover two looks, but the chiefs can still with this receiving core with Kelsey with this run game with it playing this type of offense. I think they'll still be able to hurt teams playing soft as own against them, even on third and extra long. It's going to be those third and seven moments against man coverage. Do you have a guy that can win? That to me is still like the last question I'll probably need answered about this team. It's still concerned to me as well, but I do feel better just about because I think last year they were still getting into those scenarios more often than you wanted and weren't able to be explosive to just flip the field. Then I do it does to me feel like they have a little bit more of that now. Like I thought honestly one of the which of the Thornton plays was the one where it puts them like on the goal line. Basically that too was just like catching the colts in a bad look where they have trips to the left hand side, but the colts like rotate their weak safety down. And so that Thornton running that deep over like he already crosses the face of the deep safety on the other side. And it's like that's just an incredible throw to go back to a little bit to the point that you were making about really making these linebackers earn it. There was a play early in the second quarter where they shuffle rashi rice into the left hand side and it looks like that duo insert and he like runs just in between the tight end and the tackle. They actually play fake the other way and get the back out. So now one the linebackers reading run that way. And then he stays down because he's like, Oh, the backside. I've got to take him to the flat. But now because rice is so tight to the formation to the left hand side, him running that crosser and getting right into that hook window, it happened so fast. And the chiefs being able to access that stuff a little bit more and get explosives. That's the way that this thing is going to need to function. That's a good point. The the concerns about what it's going to look like when they have to be in those man cover situations on third and medium, third and long. That was true last year. That the fact that that's carried over, you can live with that if that's the only big lingering question about the offense because the big lingering questions about the offense last year were, can you run the ball? Can you be explosive running ball and can you be explosive down the feel throwing the football. And the fact that they've answered all of those questions over the first two weeks, I'm willing to live with having one relative weakness with the offense compared to the three or four that we had to be living with over the last couple seasons. Exactly. In no offense is going to be perfect. And honestly, if Patrick from homes can just look a little bit healthier by Halloween and he's just able to scr. he already looks fairly good as a scrambler. But if he is like back close to 100%, I think that solves again, some of your third down issues. And so I'm. it's only been two weeks. I don't think they've played anybody super insane, but like the way that this is starting to look. I mean, obviously Denver was supposed to be good week one. I'm willing to like throw out a little bit. And then this cold defense is not great. But I think everything you would have wanted from the chiefs offense you got. And the last one I would say to that, I mentioned it on the Sunday show. This was as good as Patrick, my homes has looked throwing down the field in a long time. Like the throws that threaten were incredible. The deep pile on route, he throws to Xavier Worthy that doesn't get caught. That throw is insane to have that kind of RPMs and like lead him up the field that way. That is like an unbelievable throw. And so just the fact that he looks good. The offense is opening up throws in a way that I just kind of think that they had struggled to do the last couple of years. And now Ken Walker can just seemingly bounce off four people and rip off 20 yard runs. You kind of got all of what you would want. The throw that he had to Kelsey on the corner out of the Kelsey drops was also an incredible throw. It's not an egregious drop. It hits off his fingertips, but it's still a beautiful throw down the field. And he had a handful of those yesterday. So you have the deepal accuracy looks like it's better than it's been over the last couple of years. They're building to run the ball. Their ability to be explosive. And then you still have those just incredible feel awareness moments from Patrick Mahomes. There was a second and four play in the second quarter where the culture and a pressure look and Arden Key just comes completely untouched. And Mahomes buys just a little bit of time to find Kelsey in the flat for 11 yards. That stuff is always going to be there. And again, now when you're combining with all the other positives they're bringing to the table. It's just so nice to feel this way about the Chiefs offense again. It's just so nice to watch them and not feel like I'm at the dentist's office. But that's what it felt like over the last two years. It was just such a supremely unenjoyable experience. And so to be back here, it's so nice. I got you can hear it in my voice. I'm so happy that I don't actively hate watching this team again. Well, and don't you remember last year you had brought this up maybe by like week three, week four, Patrick Mahomes. It's not that he was playing poorly. It just felt a little like tense. Like it just didn't seem like he was super comfortable back there. The Giants game. I remember when we did the Giants game on the hangover last year. It was so hard to ignore that feeling when you were watching them. And in this game, didn't he just feel as calm as he's ever felt in the pocket? Like some of just the sliding, buying himself a half second when he's got to not being freaked out when he's going to get hit. Like he just looked as calm as he's ever looked. And it was like, again, okay, if he's going to look like the quarterback, I think he is and the offense is going to help him enough. They can be like a really, really damn good offense again. I think it's important to provide some context to the enthusiasm in this conversation. The cold defense. I'm really worried about the cold defense. I'm extremely worried just like everything all three levels. I mean, you look at what the edges were doing against the run and just how many the first play of the game, the first play of the game. Arden Key just gets completely lost. Michael Cummins did it later in the game. There are multiple different plays like that. We've already talked about the linebackers and what they were the safeties as tacklers in this game too. I mean, like what they were making AJ Halsey do in the alley. That's not the game he wants to be playing. Overall, in this game, the Chiefs miss 19 tackles. Okay, excuse me, the colds, the colds miss 19 tackles in this game. That is the second most in a single game this season. The most, the Broncos in week one last week. So the Chiefs have the two highest tackle force games in the NFL so far this year, which is another element of their offense that they did not have over the last couple of years. I think that's a little obviously what walkers doing contributes to those numbers, but I also think when you look at the second and third level for the colds defense, I am genuinely very concerned about what that group is going to look like over the course of the season. It was something to be worried about coming into the year and I think your worst fears are being realized when you're watching that group right now. I mean, it was a defense where outside of the defensive tackles and soft gardener, you could you could see how it would be good, but you had to tell yourself a little bit of a story to get themselves there in it at least through two weeks. None of it really looks like it's delivering on way. You would have wanted it in optimistic case. I think part of the story I had to tell yourself that CJ Allen would be good right away. He's not even playing. Mm hmm. Like he missed, well, he missed some of like the preseason. And then yeah, he's like the fact that he can't get on the field. I think it's deeply concerning, which like they were going to look tough, even if CJ Allen was like a perfectly average rookie linebacker, this was going to be tough. I think what they're getting out of their linebackers right now is even worse than that. And then again, like you mentioned, the positions that they've put Halcyan as a one-on-one tackler in the last handful of games, which like on some level, it's like it's the NFL. You've got to make those plays at some point, but having to do it two weeks in a row now against Derek Henry, maybe the scariest person to meet in the alley or down the field. And Kenneth Walker, who's been incredible at it. Like it's just it's he's been put in a difficult position. And I think has not played well. And I don't think Bynum has played as well as we've seen him play before. And so like this is a defense where again, outside of the defensive tackles, it doesn't really feel like many of them are playing at their best level. Yeah, it looks like a lot of guys who are swimming on the back end. And that's a problem. We knew the defense might be an issue. I think the optimistic case for the Colts, the best case scenario is that the defense is passable and the offense can carry them over the course of the year. And you look at what the offense did last night against the chiefs. There are plenty of things to like like on zone runs and on some of those pin pulls like the offensive line moves so well. I thought Taylor was exceptional for a good portion of that game last night. Like you just feel the difference he's making every time he touches the ball. But you compare his runs to McLaughlin runs and just how different they look at it's he's so good. And the line is a really well constructed group. The movement skills are so good. I thought downs was fantastic when they really kind of put him to work in some of those one-on-one situations. But that's it. Like you've got Josh Downs in one-on-one situation or some of the slot. And you've got that offensive line and Jonathan Taylor being able to do some work on the perimeter on some of those zone runs. But when you've removed Alec Pierce from the equation, which we'll see how long he's out. We could talk about that if you want to. The offense is just so limited and the things that it can do well that even if it can do those things well, that can only take you so far. And I think that's kind of what that group felt like last night. I think that's what I'm worried about. And that's why I think it is worth bringing up the fact that Pierce is going to miss time potentially because he's he's the create space for everybody else in the passing offense guy. Like he can take the top off. He can run some of those dig routes. He can do some of that stuff. I struggled to see who that's supposed to be other than him. Like Downs can win down the field. But again, you're mostly having to do it him being from the slot. It's a lot of like these outbreaking routes to the sideline. Like you can only really use him in a particular way. And I thought a lot of their other one on one winners like Daniel Jones consistently trying to throw the one on one slant to Keenan Allen versus like press man inside leverage. You can't do it. He threw the pick to full and then throw another in completion inside the two minute trying to do the same thing. And so if they're not going to have these guys who can win some one on one balls, win a slam, win on when down the field a little bit. The offense starts to feel a little bit more constipated than I think you would have hoped for going into the season. And Downs, they're not even trying to use him as anything. They're using him as more of a vertical player from the slot than they have over the last couple years. But they're still almost exclusively using him as a slot player. Like that's where almost all of his targets came from last night is when he's working from the inside. And that's just a very different sort of player than Alec Pierce is, even if there is a little bit more verticality to downs his game right now than there has been over the last couple of years. So you're removing Pierce from the equation to changes how many threats you have on offense. It changes the geometry of the offense. And if Keenan Allen is going to be getting a decent amount of those snaps, like you said, it's it's just a not a starter. Like what he what he looked like in that game. Players like that, we always say, well, their games will age gracefully. They'll be able to do this forever. And then when they stop being able to do it, it's extremely ugly. And as much as it pains me to say this, I think we might be approaching that place with Keenan Allen, which is very sad because he's one of my favorite players, the last like 15 years. I mean, I just think he was incredible. But it's a good point. Like especially those guys where it's like, oh, they're smooth and it'll age and they know how to get into zones and they know how to run routes and all that stuff. And it's like, sure, that can work when they drop to 90% of their athleticism. It can work at 85%. It can work at 80. Once you get to like 70, 65% of what they were, it's like, you just can't beat people the same way that you could before. Do you think it's too early to have the what comes next for the Colts conversation? Because I think we're trending in that direction. Actually, we have three months to have it. But I'm already going there in my head. I think the offense does have enough glimmers of hope that I'm willing to like play this out a little bit more before I like fully put the brakes on like holy shit this team. has a problem. What if Pierce misses like a month, would you still feel that way? I do think that the run game looks good enough and you can maybe start to piece this together enough with downs. Like if they go into games knowing they don't have Pierce, the game plan probably looks a little bit different. I'm not saying that like I necessarily, certainly believe in that version of the Colts, but I do think the offensive line in run game is good enough and we've seen stack and be a really good play caller at enough times that I'm willing to hold off for like another couple of weeks before I'm like, Oh, no, this is fully done. The defense I'm more in like, this is panic mode. The offense, I think, has enough to it. I think you're probably right. I mean, they took that game and over time yesterday. I mean, we talked about it there. One fourth and eight decision away from potentially winning that game. And we maybe not need to be in pan. We maybe don't need to be in panic mode quite yet. But like I said, like I think even if you're optimistic about some elements of the offense, I think the offense needed to be humming on, if not all cylinders, then most of them, if the defense is going to look like this. And I just wonder how possible that even is if Pierce isn't playing and you're trying to build this entire plane out of the run game and Josh downs, two things I love, by the way, I love Josh downs in the Colts run game. But even for me, I'm not sure that's enough considering the quality of the defense right now. Well, that's the thing in the best case scenario. It was the Colts run game and Josh downs and this and that and that. And they just don't have all of those other things right now. It's just those two things. They next week, by the way, they get the Houston Texans. And I know the Texans like it go into how to weird game against the week one against Josh Allen. That is still a defense that, especially I think without the Colts having Alec Pierce, there's a chance that they just get their shit kicked in. And if it happens in that game, and I know the Texans are great, but then you're in three and haven't really looked alive in enough of these games. And then I would start to be like pretty concerned. And that's again, when we can start having that conversation because the Colts don't make the playoffs. It's over. Right. We're we're clean and house. We're starting over. And I think that maybe it's unfair to start having that conversation two weeks into the year, but we're not very far away from having it. That being said, with three weeks in a row, I mean, we talked about it last night. In the first two weeks of the season, the Texans have played against two of the inner circle force of nature players in the NFL and Josh Allen and Jamar chase. And then next week, they get another one in Josh downs. I couldn't tell if you were going to be a little closer to serious and say, Jonathan Taylor, where you're going to do Josh down. I appreciate the bit. All right. Before we get to Seahawks Cardinals, let's take our first quick break. Let's get to our next one here. Seahawks and Cardinals. I had such a blast going back and rewatching this game. And for a blowout, the Seahawks are awesome that the Seahawks are so, so good. And the two guys that really crystallized it for me as I was going back to rewatch this, JSN is such a special player to just such a special player. I was joking about Josh Downes being like a singular force. Some of the things that JSN does, there, no one else in the league does them with quite the same verb as he does. And to me, the thing, the one specific thing that jumped out yesterday, the way that he floats in the end zone on some of these in breakers, and the way that he can just watch the ball all the way in, almost float in mid-air. And then just gracefully come down, get two feet down. He did it a lot last year, but the fact that two of the touchdowns came on that exact sort of play. And the first one, it's good coverage by Max mountain. It's good coverage. He's in really good position. And JSN just elevates to make that play over him. And so we've got a guy who is so clearly the most, and Justin Jefferson is phenomenal, but I think that JSN is pretty clearly the best route runner in the NFL in terms of what he's bringing to the table. You saw it on the first touchdown, which we can talk about. So you have a guy that does that, but also is making like physicality base plays in the red zone when he's doing things with his body that no one else is doing, just such an incredibly cool player. And he, all of it was on display yesterday, like every element of what makes him special was right there in front of us. That was like he's obviously played a handful of incredible games, but again, some of the plays that he made in the red zone were just his, it's like what you said, he can go up and float for it. And he just has like incredible hand-eye coordination and just like calmness when the ball is in the air. And he is, he, I think what's so fascinating about him is most of the truly elite receivers, like the special guys are bigger than JSN is and like more physically imposing than he is. And this is not to say that he's like a bad, he's obviously an incredible athlete. And he's not small. He's like six foot 200, but usually it's guys that look like Julio Jones or Mike Evans or Andre Johnson or obviously in the league now like a Jamar chase where he is like a truly force of nature physical presence. The fact that JSN is not that, but still feels like those guys because of how well he navigates space and is able to just get in the air the way he does like and also he won offensive player of the year last year. And he feels like he might be better, which is complete. It's almost like when Miles gear like one defensive player of the year and then got better again. Like I just what he's doing right now is special. The only person I can really compare it to in terms of play style and impact is prime Antonio Brown. Yeah, that's probably it. He was like another guy who was not like physically imposing, but he just the way that he was able to navigate it's not just navigate space in between zones or as a route runner or whatever. It's like in the air like the way that Antonio Brown and now JSN can like negotiate space in the air and fight through contact for guys who are not particularly large is is unbelievably impressive. They're I want to go back and watch a little bit more prime Antonio Brown just to kind of get the nuances right of what is similar and what is different. But when what a watch what it feels like to watch these guys, how they impact the game, the dominance they have at their at their size, like that's really the only comparison that I can make. But with JSN, I think when I picture Antonio Brown, it's I'm like more vertical route, some more like big sail routes. And with JSN, it's the inbreakers over the middle of the field and just the smoothness that those happen with. And I talked about this year last year going into the season, Sam when I was talking to Sam Donald during training camp, he said, it's almost like he's ice skate like when you watch him play like his feet just never leave the ground. And I just think about that every single time I watch him and there's really nobody that moves like that. And so you have that on offense where he's every bit as good as he was last year and he's doing the same exact shit. And then for me, the player on defense when I went back and rewatch this game that I'm like, what just an incredibly cool player that there's no one else really in the league. Why can he to me and really embodies what the defense is supposed to be Leonard Williams was insane. Dude in this game like absolutely insane. He is an incredible player. It blows my mind that this is a guy who was like a former top 10 pick had like made multiple probals early in his career. And he's now 33 at 32 33 and he's playing the best ball of his career, the best he's ever played. He is a truly dominant player. Every single play that is against him is just like he just manhandles everybody that he's going against. I mean, there was a play early in this game where he gets they try to run like I think it was like a third and one or a fourth and one at him. And he's just one certain one on the opening drive completely completely nukes to play by himself. And it's like he can just do that man because he has he has like truly like mid 30s like old man strength, but he's still phenomenally quick and like agile for a guy his size and like the way that he sees it like he is one of the most dominant defensive linemen in the league right now. He's unbelievable. He begs that play on third and one on the opening drive. It's him and Byron Murphy, which Byron Murphy also you could say a lot of the same should about Byron Murphy the way that they're using him in past rush situations right now where he's like a spinner and they're sliding him across and they are they are they are truly weaponizing him on like third and seventh in a way that they were not last year. They're treating him like Micah Parsons in like in passing situations which is hilarious. And it's fun. Like he is he can be that sort of force. He is super explosive. And so them being like we think you're our best past pressure right now with our current group. We're going to unleash you in these ways is really cool to watch. But so that happens on third and one of the first drive on the second drive. He makes a run stuff on one play and then makes a tackle like six yards down the field on the next play chasing it on the backside on the second drive. He nukes a third down on a stunt where he gets a sack. There's a third and four at some point in the second quarter where it's a him a twist with him and foul where then almost gets home. And then one of my favorite plays the entire game is the interception where Derek Hall gets the pressure. So they're hitting this stunt over and over and over again over the course of this game where you have Williams in like a wide wide sort of three technique. He pins the defense depends the defense of the offensive tackle and then the end loops around just very simple stuff right it's like normal te type stuff. So they're hitting this over and over and over again. And then on this play, Paris Johnson feels inside as the play is happening thinking that stunt is going to happen and that tiny little split second of indecision is enough for Derek Hall to get the edge. He hits Jacobi percent as he's throwing the ball. It gets intercepted. And that to me just speaks to what it's what it's like to play against this defense over the course of the game. They're in your head You are worried about the shit that they are doing to you and the fact that that stunt is hitting over and over and over again and you're so concerned about them getting you with it again. And then they do the, they just play it normally one time and that leads to one of the biggest plays of the game. It just speaks to schematically, but also just the play style and what that does to the guys that they're playing against where they're just trying to keep their heads above water over the course of these games. And that's what the Seattle defense does to you, like they're drowning you into the deep, they're bringing you into the deep end of the pool and they are going to drown you over the course of the game and it's incredible to watch. All of the movement they use in every way is, is just phenomenal. Like obviously in the passing game, some of the twists and stunts that they're doing, putting Bayern Murphy like sanding him up and using him as that piece. And then in the, in the run game, a lot of the stuff that they do like in this game, they were getting into a lot of those like three down linemen fronts and then they would move the B gap player and it just opens up like a wide hole for Drake Thomas where there was one where they fired spoon into that and he gets like a TFL like them just creating an open B gap for some sort of hitter in the run game. The consistency at which they do that is, is kind of unbelievable. And then the other play that I want to bring up, so they have that element of like, they're always moving. They're always kind of in your head. You don't know what exactly they're going to do so you don't trust yourself. There's that element, but then there's also the element of sometimes even when you're right against this team, they make you wrong because they're so good. There's a third down in the late third quarter, where Jacobi Berset is trying to throw the in breaker to Michael Wilson right behind Ernest Jones. And that is the throw that you have to make if you're going to beat this offense. But Ernest Jones does like at the very last second like squeezes it just enough and like throws back his hand and like kind of punches Michael Wilson just a little bit that he's not able to wrap around it just enough in Berset. It looks like it's a bad throw, but it's not like Jones just did a good job of rerouting the receiver. And it's just like even on the place where you're like, we think we have them. They make you wrong because they know all the little details. It's unbelievable. I love this because I wrote down the exact same play and just the way they squeeze space in zone coverage. The play before that to me is another really good example of this. So the play before that on second down, it's second and nine. The cardinals are trying to run a concept where number one goes vertical. And then they have McBride in the slot running like a little reverse pivot whip. And what should happen there is that if you're holding the hook defender, there should be space in like the getting toward the flat based on the route distribution because they have a player in the flat. I think it was Jeremiah law. And so you're trying to tie down the flat defender there and create that space from McBride to loop back into that space. But Spoon just doesn't acknowledge the route in the flat. Like he gets depth underneath McBride's route. And that's what's so cool about this is that they break the rules, like the rules that the defensive players should be following their sense of down and distance situational football, how I should be playing this based on how you want me to play it. They really with those expectations. And so on that play, the price should be open like the base, the way the routes are distributed, though, they're trying to get if McBride, he should be open. But instead, Spoon sits underneath it. They're forced to check it down. And then you have three guys rowing to ball at the same time. It's like a three yard gain and it's third and sixth. And that play happens that you're talking about with Ernest Jones. And it's just such a pretty simple and kind of subtle reminder of how hard it is to play against this defense for four quarters. But there's just no space. It feels like there are 12 guys out there at all times. And I left this game not feeling that much worse about the Cardinals offense over the course of the year. I truly think that they're pretty put together unit. And it's just this is what that defense can do to you. I completely felt the same way. I was like, you know what, man, I kind of think the Cardinals called a perfectly fine game. The Seahawks are just that good. Like sometimes they're just going to kick your out, but it wasn't like, I wasn't like, oh man, the Cardinals keep calling this thing and it keeps getting stopped and the Seahawks are just all over their stuff. It's like, they kind of have answers here. It's just that like the Seahawks guys are a little faster and like, honestly, the last playout bring up what ended up being one of the quote worst plays for the Seahawks defense. The Rodney Thomas passing a appearance that he gets where he's driving on that over route. It's actually such a good play by Rodney Thomas and he gets there so fast that because the quarterbacks late, he ends up getting a pass interference, but like, he makes the perfect play as a defender. It's like just all the little stuff with this defense like, and that's the other thing. Rodney last year, Tio Cotta comes off the bench to play really, really well for this team. And then they expect him to be the week one started going into this season. Cotta does not come into this season healthy. Rodney Thomas now has to play and he's looked pretty good for them. Like they're just ability to get this out of whoever the 10th or 11th start around the defense is unbelievable. Steven Warrie played nine snaps in this game. They're working him back. He played nine snaps. You don't even notice it. And again, it's against an offense that I think over the course of this year is going to be competent is going to be an offense that we kind of enjoy watching. I think I'm going to like, I like a lot of the stuff they're trying to do. And this defense is just a buzzsaw and I think they're going to continue to feel that way. The one other play I wanted to point out, I cover exactly when it happened. I can try to find it in my notes, but it honestly doesn't really matter. The Cardinals ran a play. It was early is laying the first quarter and it's 13 personnel and Michael Wilson motions into the formation like he's going to insert on duo. But instead, he flashes all the way across the formation and kind of like a slice action. And the Cardinals run zone to the side that he originally came from and it goes through like nine yards, that motion and that him slicing back across freezes Drake Thomas for just like a split second and allows the Cardinals offensive line to get out of the second level. And that's a good example of like, that's good stuff. That's a cool play like I like a lot of the things that they're doing. So they try to do it later in the game, Wilson slices across. There's a little window of space. And instead of sitting and waiting and being short circuited for a second, Thomas takes the grass immediately and drops the running back for a three yard loss. And so even if there's a moment in the game where you have a half step ahead, the where you're a half step ahead of these guys and you've got the upper hand for a second. At some point, if you try to do it again, they're probably going to take it back from you. That's the other you're not going to get them twice. There are some defenses that like, oh, we found something we can pick on this game. We'll keep getting them that that's just not really going to happen against the defense like this. The other, the other person I wanted to mention before we moved on, I'm really impressed with Drew lock. I'm really impressed with some of the stuff through lock is doing. He had a couple throws in this game where he's buying just a little bit more time. I mean, there's a play. It was the third down. I want to say where he hits JSN on an operator to the left side in the red zone. And the carnels run overload blitz. The offense is right side and they've got too many bodies to block and lock understands that. And immediately as the play is happening, starts drifting to his left to buy himself just a little bit more time and space. And he hits that throw to JSN on the left side line. And I just think he's playing really well. I think it's a sign of an offense that's being well communicated to him. He's making good decisions. He could always sling it. I mean, the guy's got an arm. And so it's been, I've enjoyed watching him like, it's, I think the, when we knew Donald was going to be hurt for a little bit, the thought was, could they survive for a while? The offense has looked even better than I could have hoped with a backup quarterback. I've enjoyed watching it. It's, it's, it's surprising, but fun. Well, because like he drew like almost is like a very perfect backup for Sam Donald, where a lot of the Sam Donald offense is like, it's like, can you make four, five like sick tight window throws for us? And like, I don't know how much overall drew lock can do for you, but he can make like four sick tight window throws. I mean, the first, the first touchdown to JSN against Max Melton, that's a really good ball. The other one that he throws in the back of the end zone near near the goal post is another really good ball. They have like trips to the right side. And he hits JSN on that like that fake corner into the, the seam route. And then there was one that he had early on in the third quarter. They have Elijah a royal like on a tight split to the right hand side. And he just runs that little like bang eight skinny post. And drew lock is like, all right, it's supposed to be there. I'm going to throw it. And he pins it right on him. Like if you could do that four times a game, man, and the run games are going to look fine, that's kind of all that this needs to be if your defense is going to be the best in the league. And a couple of those chunk plays that they hit. I thought the past protection was excellent, Zable in particular had multiple one on one moments in past protection in this game where I was like, all right, man, but tip of the cap. That looks really good. So just a fantastic performance all around. And there's some games where it's just kind of all go in your way like the fact that they get a fumble on a kickoff returner to turn into a positive play. Good things happen to find this team, but I think that's what happens when you're consistently putting yourself in good positions over and over again. It's one of those things where luck is always chance, but there's a way to make your own luck. And they do find ways to to consistently keep themselves in good positions. All right, before we get to Patriot Steelers, let's take one more quick break. All right, let's go from a team. I really enjoyed going back to rewatch this morning to a team that I did not enjoy going back to rewatch this morning. What are we going to do with the Pittsburgh Steelers if the offense is going to look like this over the course of the year? They are disgusting. They are worse than last year. This is honestly. Like justice for Arthur Smith, man, the Arthur Smith offense was totally functional and fine. What they're trying to do right now is gross and like there are so many different ways that we can go about this and like we can talk about Aaron Rogers already trying to throw the coach under the bus and how he played and all that stuff But I also and I do think that this ties into Rogers their past protection plan in this game. It's insane was horrific In multiple moments where they're just getting like completely picked apart You look at it since the start of last season. I look this up because I had the exact same thought when I'm watching them over the course of this game The only team since the start of 2025 with a worse success rate against the blitz than the Steelers is the Tennessee Titans Who had last year a rookie quarterback and yes now still only a second year quarterback an offensive line set that is not that good and not there's a 42 year old hall of famer. Yes Like the fact like I just don't I just don't even understand fully What they're trying to accomplish on a lot of these like there was Layton the first quarter. There was a third and six where the Patriots put both of their defensive tackles to the left hand side So you've got a slide there. That's totally fine But then they've got a big gap rusher like stood up over there another linebacker kind of standing behind him And then you've got the edge rusher to the right so you've got theoretically three over two Both of the linebackers come so like you end up both like both of the linebackers come the guard takes the off-ball Like inside the guy who was a little bit deeper and then the right tackle is trying to squeeze the big-at player But like then the edge pops off and he's right there for the flat player the the running back coming out And so like you just don't end up picking this up Rogers tries to throw to the flat player who peels off and that's incomplete And then there's another fact that they take where it's kind of a similar Plan was untouched on that play on the other side. It's playing just completely untouched. Like it's just they're they had And they slid the right way. Yes, that's what I don't understand It's like the fact that they are still theoretically sliding the right way and like getting guys still unblocked I just the multiple times in this game where I did not understand how that happened for them I landed a very similar place when I watch what they're doing and I'm like, what is this supposed to be? Like the just a couple different third downplays in this game where it's trying to throw a one-on-one slant a decay and back half against Christian Gonzalez Just completely gloved up the entire way like the little bender. He's trying to throw it a Bernard on that one third down That's just a complete non-starter like I when I was thinking about the Rogers McCarthy pairing in 2026 And the worst case scenario for it like the ugliest possible version. This is it This is it where you're sitting there watching them play this to this static lifeless version of offense that It would be hard for anyone to play in the modern NFL It would be hard for anyone to play this way let alone a quarterback of Rogers's age and limitations And it's been disgusting like right now through two games the Pittsburgh Steelers are dead last and offensive success rate Worse than the worse in the Falcons. They have been worse than the Cooper Rush Falcons over the first two weeks And they haven't played any ball saws here. They played the Falcons in the Patriot and the Patriots defense might be like fine But like they are not played yet. They're fine. Yes, you should not look like the worst offense in the league against a fine defense And like it it was everything like we're talking about some of the past protection stuff Like they gave up a sack in the middle of the second quarter where again They slide to the left and they allow a free rusher off the edge on the left hand side like just shit like that happening constantly and then there was actually a sequence Earlier in the second quarter that I thought summarized like all of their issues and even actually goes into kind of what Rogers was saying where he was like I got to be a little bit better about telling the coaches when we're in the wrong place and that sort of thing Early in the second quarter. There's about 13 and a half minutes left The corner route to firemuth that they have on the left side is going to come open like it's one-on-one coverage And it's going to be open and he doesn't want to hold that ball that long and he checks it down And so they don't get a great play on the very next play offense this way Yeah, you can't do stuff like that and then on the next play They boot naked boot him out to the right and if he was a quarterback with Any ounce of athleticism in his body left you can like run off and go get four or five yards against like that You have so much space between where he was and where the second level defender was trying to crash on him But he can't move at this stage and so he just kind of runs out for a little bit and throws it away And so it's like the fact that like that little two-play sequence happens You are not going to be able to function as an offense if that is happening to you every other drive There was a completion. He had a Jeremy Bernard at some point. I think it was in the first half It was a third and eight and the Steelers popped the Patriots pop back into like some version of cover two And so they clouded DK side he wanted to go there first shocking He was he was trying to go to DK first. They cloud that side There's a little bit of space for him to step up to the right and so he does and by virtue of him stepping up and running that direction His eyes just by default Clicked back to the right side and he hit Jeremy Bernard on the back side of the play But it's only because he tried to start scrambling that his eyes went to the back side to make that throw He was like seeing a unicorn Mm-hmm. I remember that exact play where I was like that doesn't feel like he was trying to get there And he just kind of did by accident which like It's just so frustrating because like earlier in his career He could do this and so it's just kind of bizarre seeing him not operative And I think he was always a little bit more of like a pick what I want to do pre snap kind of quarterback But still earlier in his career he was better at like cycling and getting to stuff late in the down But he just doesn't do it as consistently anymore And so if the passing offense is gonna be so like I still want to get the bottom of my hands. I still want to win pre snap I still want to throw some of these one-on-ones They're still not talented enough to do that especially without Michael Pittman really playing in this game Like I just I don't understand How it's supposed to look good. I thought that this had I thought maybe they would have enough pass-kitchen talent to like make this stupid offense work But it doesn't seem like they do It can't you can't make this offense work if it's not 2019 and you don't have Devonte Adams It's just impossible to play this way and I think people are gonna hear the way that We're talking about Rodgers that I'm talking about Rodgers that I've talked about Rodgers for the last two years And Take it the wrong way. I think it's almost The place that I've reached with all of this is that it's just sad Like I think back to Aaron Rodgers is my favorite player in professional football For a multi-year period and I think that's part Stockholm syndrome From being a bear's fan and watching what he would do to this team twice a year for an extended stretch But I loved watching him play When he was at his best and you were watching him in 20 time when he really came on the scene and then into 2011 And over that entire stretch like the 2014 season There was no one like him He he was playing the position unlike I had ever seen anyone play the position And there are guys that were dynamic forces and think back to like what Steve Young was and what Michael Vick was But the the plays that Rodgers would make Extending from the pocket and I remember the like his little signature thing that he would do Is that on slightly on the move whether it was extending a little bit or stepping up in the pocket He would almost he would plant on his front leg almost it was like a kickstand And the torque that he could create while doing that it was just unlike anything I'd ever seen like what he was physically bringing to the position If we're doing it like Pokemon He was like my homes evolved from Rodgers like that was he was the first glimpse we saw of that sort of player And it was exhilarating It was the coolest thing about the NFL every Sunday for a multi-year period was getting to see what shit Aaron Rodgers Would do and the fact that now we're in this place where the almost the offensive ceases to function And I actively hate watching it my main emotion as I watch him at this stage is just disappointment and sadness It's not bitterness. I just hate the fact that we've arrived in this place considering what he was for so long He he up until my homes and I think maybe even Josh Allen was like the most talented Thrower of the football I'd ever seen and I think that might even still be true like I think those guys are Arguably better for different reasons, you know Josh Allen is a complete force of nature as an athlete Patrick Mahomes has a very special way to maneuver around the pocket now obviously Aaron Rodgers did too But some of Mahomes is playmaking is incredible But purely in terms of Can that guy put the football where he wants to put it from anywhere to anywhere on the field? I don't know if I've ever seen anybody like him at his peak And so the fact that it's funny. I was even actually saying this to our producers before we went on I really hope that in 20 years I this stretch of his career the last five years. I kind of just forget it because like you said like 2011 2014 the back-to-back MVPs with Matt LaFlure where it looked different than any other point in his career He had so many of these special peaks and to watch it be like Such a limited version of what it had been at his past is it it is a little bit Yeah, it's not even bit like I feel like other bad quarterbacks I get Frustrated because I'm just like what's wrong with you that at this point I'm just like with Rodgers. It's just I'm kind of just tired of seeing it. It's really frustrating And here's the problem with this we knew this was gonna happen If you watched them play last year, I don't know know how you could talk yourself into there being any other outcome than what we're watching right now. It's probably worse than even people who were skeptical about this would have thought. Like the fact that they'd been the worst offense in the league through two years. And I understand it's a new coaching staff, right? But it's, yes, sort of, you got a 42 year old quarterback with a guy that he coat that he played under for like 10 years. So this may be some of the other players are new to this. But I'm not giving them the same leeway that I'm giving a lot of these other first year staffs in terms of the ramp up period that it should require for you to walk and shoot gum at the same time offensively. And so I just don't know how much better this gets if he's gonna play like this. And that sabotages the entire point of the season where you have all these young guys that in theory you can get excited about. And that's going to be so, so hard to do because of what you're having to fight through watching the quarterback and watching this style of offense. And I think that's such a great point because last year for as gross as it looked, they were like an average slightly below average offense. Like they weren't bad. They could kind of move the way they look right now is bad. Like outright going to tank the season sort of bad. And so I think it like in terms of like what he's doing and what they're trying to do. It probably looks like exactly what you would have expected. I just think so far the execution and the results look degrees worse than I think it was even supposed to the other not sad. I wanted to throw out just because I again, I think it's so telling for where he is. Nate used this term when we were watching him play and it's probably 23, whatever his last year in Green Bay was, but all the performative deep balls where he's just chucking it down there with no hopes of it being completed on throws of 20 plus area yards this season. He's 0 for nine. They're averaging negative 0.9 for E pay per drop back. So they lose a point every time he throws the ball 20 or more yards down the field. That sounds about right. And you know, before somebody else mentions it, I know he had the one drop by DK Metcalf on week one. I don't care. That is not good. That is extremely bad because that's the other problem with this though is that like I said, it has to be 2019. What's Avanti Adams trying to build this sort of offense through DK Metcalf, you were asking to have the most frustrating experience you can possibly imagine trying to play this way. Like he is, he is talented enough to trick you into thinking you might be able to do this. And then as you try to do it, you're going to be filled with nothing but regret. Yes, 100% and like DK Metcalf always works because there were always other like solidifying factors around him where some of the up and downs with him didn't matter. If like Michael Pitman is not going to be what they want and some of the tight ends, maybe aren't going to be what they want. They're not going to have that. And so the other thing I want to mention too with like them just being such a frustrating passing off into, especially when they want to go peer pass, you mentioned the performative deep balls on this season when they are passing on third down, they are five for 25. That is horrendous. And again, these are not like juggernaut defenses, they're playing. These are the Falcons who have a lot of like young players in the back seven. And then you have the Patriots who like Creshing Gonzalez is great. But otherwise it's like a DB unit that like you could probably get some of your matchups if you wanted, especially like Carlton Davis didn't play in this game. Like this should have been a unit you could get some stuff on and they still could not find them. Yeah, I think you know Michael Pitman didn't play in this game, but you shouldn't look like this just because Michael Pitman is not playing in the game. Like that, that should not happen. And so I'm looking at it right now. You mentioned the third down numbers on third down so far this season, the league average motion at the snap rate is 30.4%. What do you think the Steelers are at eight? That's exactly right. Wow. I was just going to guess I'm like maybe one or two plays eight percent. They've done it twice on third down. And again, it's not some magic wand where it instantly makes everything better. But when you watch them play, it's just so incredibly static. The only other team that is down at that range and motion at the snap rate is the Bengals. The Bengals are allowed to play this way. And that's what they can do this. If you're going to be static, you need at least one of these two things. You need someone who is a force of nature, freak receiver. The Bengals have to really the in Jamar chase and T Higgins. And then you need a quarterback who in those situations can see it and is going to be right and on time. Joe Burrow can do that right now. Aaron Rogers could do that eight years ago, but it's not currently doing that at the rate that you would need him to to make this work. Let's get to the other side of the ball. What are your impressions of this Patriots offense from this game? I so I have a couple of, I mean, I thought they ran the ball well. I mentioned actually at the top of the show, I think that that mostly came down to the Steelers linebackers in a couple of these situations, especially when they needed to take on blocks was horrendous. The passing game worries me a little bit. I feel like Drake May is a little bit more gun shy this year. And I'm a little bit curious as to when to see that's going to get fixed because I thought that there were a handful of moments in this game where he either could have been aggressive or like would have last year and didn't take it like early on in the game. I forget if it was like the first or second drive, but he had a whole shot against cover two if he wanted it, but he got burned on that in week one and really got burned on that for like last five NFL games that he's played and didn't want to throw it. And I'm not saying it was the most wide open thing that I've ever seen, but that's a throw that like when you have the arm talent that he has and when I've seen you do it, I get to come to an expectation where I expect you to try and make that throw and he just kind of turned it down and ran for like seven yards or something like that. Watching him for most of last season, the thing I was most impressed with is just the shot selection. Like his shot selection for such a good chunk of last season was so impressive where he knew exactly when to take those chances, when not to he was taking a lot of stuff underneath there. It wasn't just explosive plays. Like this was an offense that was just consistently stacking up completions or positive plays on scrambles over and over and over and over again. Some of that is competition based. We've talked ad nauseam about the schedule like you have to acknowledge that, but it just feels like the shot selection just isn't there right now like when he should be checking it down. He's not when he should be taking chances. He's not that he's not trusting the past protection and the offense overall just feels so unsettled compared to what it felt like for a good majority of last season. And I can't pinpoint exactly why it feels that way, but that's the general sense I get watching them right now. Yeah, I mean, I feel the same way again. He just feels a little bit like he's, I do think like you said, like the shot selection is a little bit up and down. I mean, even the interception that he throws where they're in like two by two, they have open field to the left side, two tight ends to the right side. They run a hunter Henry from the right side and run that cross over into the left hand side. The sealers bring this like pressure, but they still have the weak hook player Patrick Queen who in theory, they're trying to tie him down with I think the fullback coming out of the back field. It's killing him. Yeah, from from also the right side, he's attached, but they're trying to run him under the whole that guy there. And I think Drake is just assuming that the hook player is going to see that and like sit and then he can throw the over out on top of it, but he doesn't like queen actually gets up under and floats under it and takes it high and gets under the interception. Yes, and I will say I think this is the other element that I would say Drake may is sped up there because the right side of the line loses and he kind of has to make that throw at the very top of his drop. And so he's making the assumption hook players not going to get under that. He's not going to see it, but he does and he takes it. So I do think that that's another thing where especially over the middle of the field, I feel like defenses are kind of realizing that he wants to take those throws a lot of the time. And maybe we're seeing teams like squeeze that a little bit better. Then they had for most of last season, I would say. Yeah, you may lose Mike and Wenu in this game and there were a couple of moments where you felt the fact that there was a backup right guard in their Derek Harman, just I don't even know who the backup right guard was. Apologies for that. Greg Van walk. Oh, it's right Van Roan. So he's walks him right back into into Drake May's lap at some point. And so I do think I can understand being a little bit apprehensive about what the past protection would look like on the right side of the line. But overall, again, it just the offense feels really unsettled. And I don't know if that something that will change over the course of the year, if that's something that we should be worried about, it's two weeks in. I don't want to overreact too much to two games against the Seahawks and a Steelers defense that over the course of the year, I do think is going to be pretty good. But it just feels so much different than it felt last year when this offense really did seem so in command. Yeah, I mean, even some of their best plays in the passing game like early on, they hit a couple of plays against man coverage against not their corners. Like they hit Hunter Henry on a corner out against Shaquan brisker, I think, and then Peyton Wilson lost on like a deep corner out to Eli Raridan. So they hit a couple of those. But otherwise, it was like that. And then the big play that Drake May gets when he's rolling out to his right. And it's a little bit of a busted coverage and and dobs is open deep, but like incredible throw, by the way. I mean, those are going to keep you coming back. That's the one where I'm like, why did we stop being as aggressive as we can? Because like again, the arm talent is phenomenal. And I don't think Drake May was like bad in this game, by the way. It's just that I think that there were, if he was operating at the level that I think that he was at his peak last season, this game would have looked and felt a little bit cleaner for the Patriots overall. I think that that's the way that I would put it. All right. That is all we've got for the week two hangover. We will be back tomorrow with Dave and Dane building the beast talking about the week that was in college football. Some good stuff coming over the course of the week on the athletic football show. Got a good midweek show. Bill Barmore was going to join us. We're going to play a little is this real, which has been a show we've done. I think every year that Bella has been on the show at the very least two weeks into the season. We always like to play. What is real and what is not about the NFL season? This year I think it's going to be particularly difficult because there aren't a lot of things that stayed consistent over the first two weeks of the year. So I feel like it's a more muddled picture than it even normally is at this stage. But look forward to that conversation and a lot of the other stuff we've got coming on the feet over the course of the week for now. That's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.