We’re Back! Joseph Sikora Sits Down w/ Gianni Paolo | Ep 61 | The Crew Has It

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Oh, boy. - Last one to the airport buys breakfast. - Buying breakfast. - Day one, day one. okay crew has it listeners we got two very special people in here today um michael he had a little little something something he couldn't make it today so we got chris tardio in the building yeah from force to join us and of course this man needs no introduction joseph shakora tommy egan come on the star of power power book for force he's in the building we're gonna get into some stuff yeah i can't help it now yeah we're in it now what's up guys what you've been up to yo man this awful strike has been has been terrible because we're so proud of our show we're so proud of our second season we're so proud of gary lennon specifically the writing the storytelling has been so epic uh for our second season of power book for force and yet we can't promote it on social media um the rules are has been a little bit wonky it's kind of like you know can i even retweet something answer is no um you know can you comment on stuff yes so there's kind of this gray area and what hurts is that we're so proud of the season so there's that like we want everybody to watch the damn thing but it's at the same time you know you got to be supportive of your union so we can make change and everybody can get a fair paycheck of course of course 100 supporting you know obviously the wga they came to a deal yeah i think sag is up next and i'm super excited for that as well for you guys because like season two is so good season two is so good it's good and it's and it's hard because i i felt for chris because you know i'm with lofton almost every day in my life and i feel for you guys because like i think about when ghost last season was premiering i'm reposting everything i'm i'm clips this that and it i love it so much like and i'm proud of what we do so it breaks my heart to see that you guys literally can't do that like i see your giant billboard of you and the mustang on the 405 yeah if that was me yeah and i just there's like a fool with me on the highway like this and you can't repost that i'm like that's kind of how i close out my girls i'm like i'm like i'm on i'm above saddle ranch right now yeah yeah yeah so do you have an id yeah yeah they're like johnny why are we eating at saddle ranch six times a week i'm like listen i only got a month of this yeah but yeah it does suck and i'm and i'm like i love season two is great and i just it's hard because you can't promote it but listen we do have to support our unions and all that so there's gray areas but i do want to get into some forced up because yeah no we have to but also one of the things i was talking to chris on the way down here is like you look at fifth like how many people there's like 30 million people that exclusively get their power universe information from curtis 50s and jackson right and fifth can't promote it right so it's really has been a bit of a delay but the positive things is that even though our numbers were way down at the beginning we're now back up to where we were perfect so it's a big it's a big wonderful underdog story we're growing we're back up like our work everybody's back but it took people a little while because i've had even people saying right now oh you guys are back and then oh yeah great at least i can't wait to binge and watch you know five five hours worth at least that's crazy that people don't even know it's back on because of that yeah it's true um all right so before we get into some force up i want to get into some chris tardio stuff because listen this man was on one of the greatest shows of all time i got my i got my shirt on today for it um we obviously had joe's episode where we went you know in depth with him so we'll do a little um you know i kind of want to get your story a little bit and hear how you kind of got into it and started and then how you ended up this is a crazy thing he tested for tommy egan against joe isn't that nuts it was kind of like with me because i have to say that we got on we were like we both liked each other like from the beginning right it was probably the first time that i truly meant when i said chris remember i was just like hey man truly if i don't get it i really hope you do we went and had lunch actually something happened in the process the testing process we're like there was this break that wasn't anticipated we were and we went and we had lunch together we were talking and like we became friends we came back and it was you know that was in la yeah wow that's crazy it's so funny i had that with one other person we tested uh for something for a movie against him and i was going to the um ghost writers room season one and i saw him walking on the lot i wound up getting the movie but like we stayed in touch and i saw him walking on the lot um when i was leaving and courtney had just said to me um think about who could play your brother if you know anyone and he was literally walking by the kid barrett and i was like him because he was shooting a show called alexa and katie and they they sent the offer out to him all that stuff but he booked the lead on a show like a couple weeks after that happened and that was only recur but i i know what you mean because you see something like god fuck this motherfucker and then all of a sudden there's such a good guy like damn i wanted to hate you it just makes it easier it's like it's like when you're in a boxing match against someone you're like if i can hate this guy it's easier to beat his ass you know and i'll tell you what and then i watched when i you know watched the first episode of the pilot i was like oh my god i'm like i picked the right guy you know which is yeah yeah so so so again it's like did you start acting in new york or la uh new york okay yeah i you know it's it's strange how i came to it all i um i didn't dream of being an actor you know i i had a situation when i was younger got in trouble something i didn't do got off and then i just knew i wasn't you know i wasn't gonna go sit in an office and i wasn't gonna my i come from all plumbers you know and i wasn't gonna do that and you know life just led me there it's it's weird how it happened but then once i started to i you know fell in love with it i was studying and funny enough sopranos was my first audition what yeah i started strong and everything and then it goes that's that was your first audition my first audition so you did you go in just so green being like like yeah that was kind of how i was for like i see it now i don't know anything holy shit like i would love to get an opportunity to do that again now you know what i mean but yeah and and also at that time you know a lot of actors didn't want to do television right you know that was one of the shows that kind of really yeah yeah this renaissance of television that we've had but i yeah i i had no idea what i was walking into it was completely green you know being on set and then that that was the season the show really took off yeah you know so it was it was wild were people like like did you get recognized a ton were girls like it was it wilder i you know there was a little bit of that yeah i was in a relationship at the time but yeah there was a little bit of damn that's awesome do you have any like wild soprano stories that anything that happened on set or anything like memorable from gandolfina or anything like that or it was just kind of like i had one day where i sat outside with james we uh it was in between takes and we were sitting outside and it was kind of like i was shy man you know i'm yeah i still am i'm i'm just a shy guy i'm not a conversation starter and it was like you know we just sat out there and we we had like a heart to heart you know and it was it was really very memorable and nice and you know he gave me a little advice you know and and uh yeah it's one of those things that i don't remember all the content of the conversation but it was it was great do you remember the advice he gave you um yeah wow yeah keeping it close to his chest yeah yeah he doesn't want me to book shit um no no it was more like just um don't take anything personal forgive move on let go you know i like that in this business right you know just yeah a lot of times it's not personal yeah that's awesome yeah so then so then do that you up i said it's hard it really is it's tough um so then you you obviously have guest art on a lot of shows and then power comes along um the email comes in did you have any expectation like what what was the prep for what was your prep for tommy what was my prep for tommy um well back then i i don't want to say i wasn't far from what tommy was but i felt very confident in those those sorts of roles he was moving copious amounts of weight copious amounts of weight he's like i am strawberry ice cream yeah no and i um but you did the first round of auditions for tommy which initially which we've gone over was called eddie o'neill right and uh yes i was not available for that first round of auditions for tommy because i was getting married um and uh chris ended up going as far as it was going to go with the tommy character if i'm remembering this correctly because 50 was still going to be ghost right and uh keep going don't let me no no that's i just you know we we ended up there in beverly hills when we were testing together and you know it was it could go either way at that point right and um you know i felt great about what i was doing but in in retrospect i definitely i'm not that guy you know it's funny my my parents are now watching force right and my mother is like oh he's so good she's like honey you you weren't that guy yeah you know my mother thinks i'm every guy she thinks i should be in everything so you know uh it all worked out the way it was supposed to and it's great to be there now for sure and we the room was split between us there were certainly people you know who shall remain nameless who wanted chris who their vote was for chris but um what i was told by other somebody else that was will remain nameless was that chris was would have been the tommy character for sure if 50 was playing ghost and part of that is because chris is olive skin he's italian you know and he's he's got a uh darker complexion than me and 50 is dark complected whereas omari is very light complected right so it's not as you know i mean obviously it's a white guy and a black guy but it's still not as distinguishable as a translucent white guy and a light-skinned black guy right so it's like you know there's a good lesson for people to learn too is that you you you have to be good right of course but then there's factors you can't control like the color of your skin right and it's like but sometimes yeah exactly height and who you look better like against and stuff so there was a part of it is just that i'm just lighter skin than chris that gave a visual that said to certain people that were decision makers that said no no that's it because that's that's what's going to sell on a poster yeah that guy's white that guy's black that's it that's what our story is right more so it's that kind of you know crazy could have gone either way but it was just like yeah yeah it's it's crazy yeah it's crazy and that we stayed friends yeah and that he's on the show now so that's the first time you met him yeah and then you guys completely were just like we knew a lot of people yeah we had a lot of yeah mutual friends right and then you stayed in touch while you were doing power you guys stayed in touch well then i had another friend who was on power catherine arducci and yeah one day i was hanging out with her and she was like oh i'm gonna catherine and we ran into joe and his wife and we ended up you know going back and we hung out all day and blah blah and then i'll tell you another funny thing and perino because he knows the man i love perino perino's the best one day me perino and joe were hanging out and we're just talking about acting and accents and joe's doing all these accents and really gifted with accents i'm not but it was funny when this force audition came up and i did the first round of auditions for that um they reached out and they were like can you do the chicago accent and i'm like yeah and then i remembered him with the accents and he's from chicago and it's like if people try to do a new york accent with you know i'm like and he's gonna be the one who's gonna be and i was like oh shit but then he and he came through clutch and got me to talk to two of his friends who are from chicago two very different an iron worker and a cop and right you know the only thing that i can say is that i had a lot of fun in the audition and i think that's a good thing and i think that's a good thing and i think that's a good thing because i think that's a good thing and i think that's a good thing and i think that's a good thing and i think that's a good thing and i think that's a good thing and i think that's a good thing and i think that's a good thing and i think that's a good thing and i think that's a good thing and i think that's a good thing and i think that's a good thing and i think that's a good thing and i think that's a good thing and i think that's a good thing and i'm like does that mean i got it and he's like oops and i said so my accent was okay and he said well let's put it this way you're probably from new york but that's that's another genius part of gary like gary champions um uh talent right and if it's like gary can be like what's more important that the guys are born and raised chicagoan or is it that does it matter that we have the got the best actor and the obvious answer is the best actor because gary can you know make he can kind of make anything work right um so it was just kind of like he gave a really cool backstory of the character being from new york but living in chicago now for how long was it 20 years or something like that so so every now and again he slips in a pretty kind of a flat a that would uh make my father proud the lemonati has spent decades keeping lemon on top and lime in the shadows their lemon agenda has infiltrated everything even our music that hit song named after the color of lemons not a coincidence big lemon has been pulling strings in the industry for years think about it but now seven up is fighting back with their new lime lemon soda now lime comes first seven up flip the sip so as you know we live in an increasingly automated world but there are some things that do require tedious manual work yeah man ai's taking over right now but luckily for e-commerce business owners shipping is no longer a manual task thanks to ship station they got you covered it's so hard to get a job in a ship station it's so hard to get a job in a ship station so easy to use the ship station dashboard to manage your orders there's a free trial and it's a quick setup so now's the time to try ship 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customers for life damn that's like the opposite of me dude my return rate is not great look spend some more time growing your business when you automate shipping tax with ship station make sure you go to shipstation.com use the code the crew today and sign up for your free 60-day trial that's shipstation.com and use the code the crew listen if you have a business if you have any merch or anything ship station is the company for you back to the episode can real quick can you just explain uh who gary is for the listeners who don't okay uh everybody gary lennon uh was brought on the second season of the original power show and a big reason was was to develop the tommy character uh gary is from manhattan he is from hell's kitchen his brothers were uh very very rough and tumble gary had a really tough life and that's really reflected in kind of the struggles but the celebration of life with the tommy character um obviously courtney made up the tommy character and did an incredible job and i'm super grateful gary really rounded that character out really humanized him and made him 360 and gary was the co-showrunner of the power show in the last final two seasons or at least the last season of the original power show and now he is the showrunner of power book for force uh he took over uh for our second season and hopefully we have a third and fourth yeah and fifth who knows yeah let's keep it going keep it going baby a lot more storytelling to do yeah um yeah gary's gary's great um i just wanted you to explain that because um like a lot of the loyal loyal loyal power fans who've been around since day one on social media they'll see gary let people reposting gary lennon but some people you know are still confused on who does what who does what and how they do it right right but he um uh he did he direct a lot of yeah he directed a bunch of the power shows uh power episodes in fact my favorite episode of the power show is season five episode nine which is uh the one where i kill my father um and gary lennon directed that one he also wrote it and he did one of the things one of the coolest things i've ever had happen in my career and that was we would do scenes and then we would do this scene for a take without any words so he's like now just do this scene but no dialogue so there would be that time and then you'd think about that line and then you do the action like go to here but no words yeah and he kind of cut it where you had a lot there was a lot less words than were on the page in the original script because he used a decent amount of the cut-ups of the takes of like where we didn't say anything yeah you know what's interesting is you know who works like that who i saw octavia spencer i was on set with her and she she does all the motion because i remember there was like a scene in a movie that that i did with her and she had to like kill or do certain like crazy things to all of us in a basement and she would do the action and the lines were like like this and that and that was the first time i ever saw that i was like that's real interesting because it's so weird as an actor like you don't know what will what will work for you what will hit what will make sense to you until really you do it you know and i think that's the best and most fun part of it is when you get there on that day and like 50 worked a little bit like that when he was directing, where he was like, well, what are your guys' actions? Like, what do you want to do? And I love directors that work like that. I had a good time being directed by 50, too, because I think that people lose sight that 50 is very precise. Right. Like, just even as a musician, there's always a musicality to it. And even just, like, how it was interpreted on the screen. Like, 50 knew what he wanted it to look like. For sure. And he never is afraid to ask for help. Right. He's like, yo, what's his name? Who's this? Make it go like this. But he knows his lenses. Like, I was so blown away. From video shoots, I was assuming, too. Right, right. Yeah, he did great. 50 was a great director. Has he directed one of Force, one episode of Force? No. 50 hasn't directed Force at all because he was, God, he was, like, touring at first. And then, yeah, he hasn't. I'd love for 50 to direct an episode. Season three, 50, you got to direct. Yeah, for sure. For sure, for sure. What's up, man? And then he didn't direct Kanan, I don't think. So he's only done one episode of Power, right? I think so. Yeah, that's crazy. But also, just to do that and just, like, to sit there and be like, yeah, I did it. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you live here right now in New York. I do, yes. Because I went out to see the boys in Chicago and the whole Force crew is there. It was awesome. Bro, I finally met your guys' whole cast. Like, you guys have the greatest fucking group of people. Such a nice group of people. The best. The best. And a lot of them are Chicago locals. A lot of Chicago. A lot of Chicago locals. Yeah. A lot of talent. One of the things was, is Gary, again, Gary Lennon, for all of you people who weren't listening a second ago, Gary Lennon, no. But Gary's huge into hiring locals for Chicago. So he has really given such an incredible opportunity to so many actors who are super capable and wonderful, and especially young actors of color, as you know. It's like, if you're in Chicago, oftentimes you're booked over. Right. But now in this modern day and age of kind of, like, sending in your auditions and stuff, it was so many wonderful young actors. I mean, God, Lucian is from Chicago. Lucian Cambridge, who plays my nephew, DMACC. I love him. He's the sweetest dude. Sweetest. He's got such a big heart. And genuine. He, like, asks these really genuine, poignant questions. You know what was so funny? When we were, no one was on stage yet, and he just came up to me. I was just, like, taking it all in. Because I'm starting to try to do that more. I was taking it all in. I was seeing everyone file in for the 50 show. And he just comes up and he goes, what do you want to accomplish? And I was, like, what the fuck? And I was, like. Heavy question. Yeah. I was, like, I want to do, like, a big movie franchise. Like, I thought he was talking about career. And then I was, like, what do you want to accomplish? And he's, like, I really want to give back to, like, the underprivileged neighborhoods. I'm, like, can I change my fucking answer? I was, like, damn it, dude. Like, he really, like, that's just who he is. Like, he's such a good dude. And, like, it kind of hit me when he said that. I was, like, oh, my, like, this guy cares. Like. You don't really get that. A lot of actors just, like, my answer was kind of superficial in a way. But, like, that's the way a lot of actors can be. And, like, he really, like. Not only actors. Yeah, that's true, I guess. It's also, that's not, it's not like a self, like, you saying that. Like, you know, I just want people who are listening to this. Like, that's not a selfish answer. You're super driven. Right. Like, you're, you inspire me in a way that, like, I'm very, as you know, I'm a little paranoid. I'm a little distrusting of people. People are out to get me a little bit. Because I didn't have success as an actor for a long time. And I was manipulated and put down. And so I still carry the burdens of, like, having to find levity in my life. Right. And you live in levity. Yeah. And I'm jealous of that. Or I have been. And I'm glad I'm not. I'm glad that we're friends. And, like, and to see you win and to encourage your winning is a different way. So when you're, like, I want a movie franchise. I want this. You're going to do it. Yeah. Like, I meet people, like, very rarely. But, like, I believe when you say. You're going to do something. I'm like, oh, yeah. Like, sign me up. If Johnny says he's going to do it, he's going to do it. At some point. So. That really does mean a lot to me. Like, you have no idea. Especially early power. So when I watched the show, I didn't watch it until I finished filming season six. And I remember I watched the show in, like, maybe five days. And I was like, Joseph Shakur is the fucking greatest actor of all time. I was like, Tommy's the fucking coolest. And I was like, I'm on this fucking show. Like, it didn't hit me until then. So that's why, like, I really wanted to just be around you and talk to you. And obviously, you know, we had our little thing. But, like, I'm so glad where we've arrived to. Because we just have so much, you know, mutual respect for each other. Especially Alvin was a big bridge in that. But, yeah, I really fucking love your work. And it's crazy because I'll be watching something. Like, I was watching Shutter Island, like, a couple months ago. I was like, holy fuck. Me too. Me too. Me too. What was that like? Because we didn't talk about that in your episode. It was a 76-cent check coming my way. No. But that's a big franchise movie. Don't you? I thought you gave me. Well, yeah. I mean, I don't know. Maybe $2.50. But truly, I can make nothing on that. But, again, it was, like, it was a bigger role that got cut down. But there was an Irish gangster on Boardwalk Empire from Chicago for, like, four episodes in season one. Dark. I wish I, and I know who the actor is, and it's on the tip of my tongue. But he's, you know, dark hair, Irish guy. Anyway, long story short was, I was trying to audition for that role to get it back. And they were like, and Terry Kinney was even saying part of the story. He's like, oh, yeah, no, I told Marty, wouldn't he be great for this Irish gangster? And Marty's like, yeah, I'm editing him right now in Shutter Island. I want him for Hans Schroeder. And then he was like, yeah, but wouldn't Sikora be great for this other role? And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, he'd be great. Hire him for Hans Schroeder. Which is Hans Schroeder. Hans Schroeder was the guy on Boardwalk Empire who gets killed in the pilot. So, but that was just, you know, another, a funny thing that that job led to another job. And it was just a little bit. But then again, I had most of my lines cut out of the movie because it's not a movie about Glenn Miga. What I believe his name was. And it is what it is. But it was just incredible to be directed by Martin Scorsese. Yeah, I was going to ask, how was that? It was cool because then when we did the pilot, he, when we were doing Boardwalk, it was me, him, and Kelly McDowell. And he was like, oh, tell me a little bit about your character. And I, you know, I was like, oh, can I, mind if I get out my notes? He's like, yeah, yeah, you got time, Kelly? Read them. Read, read what you wrote. So I like read three pages of backstory that I made up for my character. And he was like, oh, yeah, that's great. That's great. I love that. I love your Scorsese voice. That's great. It's totally off. There's a modicum of truth in it. But, but again, like just that, you see somebody of that caliber that cares about every aspect of it. Yeah. And that's the ground for the storytelling and just is so passionate of a storyteller that it's like, yeah, I'd love being around that kind of. For sure. How about you, man? Anybody who's, who's a director? That's literally what I was just about to ask him. I'm curious too. Like, cause you've been on a ton of shows. Yeah. I mean, I, I had a fantastic experience working with Michael Keaton, you know, just watching him and being across from him. You know, that, that was, that was really great. Um, would you work on him with a film called worth with him? Okay, cool. Yeah. It's about nine 11. He was about the, uh, victim relief fund. He played, um, the lawyer who was in charge of that. And, uh, yeah, I had some great scenes with him, but it was, it was an interesting experience, man. You know, he's very serious with what he does and obviously, you know, he is who he is and that was great. Um, I, I loved working with Voight, John Voight on, uh, yeah, on, uh, Ray Donovan. He, yeah, he was, he was awesome. I'll tell you a funny story. We do this scene where, um, uh, they, you know, beat me up in a bar, him and his sons and they dragged me out and they, they take me hostage and, you know, he comes up to me with like a ruse at first. And he's like, Hey, you know, and he's trying to talk to me and I'm listen, man, you know, get this guy a drink, get him out of here kind of thing. And he sucker punches me and knocks me off a stool and they grabbed me and they dragged me out. He actually hit me. What? Like an accident or he was like, I'm fucking, no, an accident, an accident. And he hit me. We finished the scene. They dragged me out of the bar. They all cut. He comes up. He goes, Oh man. He's like, I caught you there. I'm sorry. I was like, nah, it's all right. I'm fine. He's like, yeah, sure. He said, that's what happens when you get older. See, you got nothing left in your punch. So, you know, like a guy like him, he was, he was great. I've been so fortunate. I mean, honestly, you know, you hear horror stories. I've not really encountered any of that. Right. You know, like everyone I've worked with has been great. I'm very generous and, and yeah, my experiences have been nothing but positive. What's your favorite thing you've ever done? Like maybe not, give me your favorite result oriented thing. Like, like what was the coolest thing? Like, obviously Sopranos is such a cool like thing for your IMDB. And what was the best thing that you did while you were on set? Like the most fun you had? This force, to be quite honest, man, I showed up in Chicago and like this guy like rolled out the red carpet and, you know, I met everyone before I ended up on set and everyone that I worked with, you know, I mean, wardrobe to makeup, to every sound camera, everybody PAs, everybody was just great. And then, and I mean that like I'm not a, I'm not a bullshit artist, you know, like I mean that from my heart. Yeah. Um, so that experience was fantastic, but you know, it's, I've had, again, like I said, primarily positive experiences. My favorite job prior to this, believe it or not, was a soap opera. Oh, what was it? It was as the world turns. And I was like, I'm not doing a soap opera and they were like, come on, man, if you do this, you know, you can go to LA. L.A. for pilot season. This is going back, right? and i was so anti um at the time my agent talked me to doing it i went to do it turned into uh quite a few more episodes than it was supposed to be and um it was exactly what i needed because you know we talked about being green with sopranos right well here now you're doing 50 episodes of a pot of a uh of a soap opera and you you know they got three cameras going at once right so if technically it works that's it they're moving on they're not really looking at the acting right how many pages are you shooting a day my first day i had 60 pages yeah i did three episodes in my first day and i was like i was like how am i gonna i was i was shitting my pants to be quite honest with you but that was just it you know like that was just it I mean, I'm blown away. 60 pages. We usually do like six at most on Power. Oh, no. They're doing three episodes a day on a soap opera. Wow, that's insane. Yeah, it was crazy. I mean, they're not shooting a full episode in a day, but they're cross-boarding and all this, and it's like they got you on this day, and you're shooting all this stuff. But it's really like an acting boot camp. That's exactly right. That's why for me it was such a great experience. I was terrified. Yeah, and sometimes you feel for those actors, because everyone watches it at the gym. It's not at the gym. Well, they're a lot better than you think they are. Right, that's what I'm saying. There's a lot of great actors on these shows, but imagine if they just used every one of your first takes for fucking The Force. No, forget about it. No, thank you. You'd be pissed, right? You'd be like, what the fuck? So I kind of feel for those actors sometimes. Yeah, and it became a ton of fun. Once I got over that hurdle of being afraid with all those pages, then it just got fun. 60 pages of memorization is nuts. Yeah, I mean, I might be a little off with 60 pages, but it was close. It was really like, you know. Holy cow, I'm scared already. That's every day too, right? Well, no, but. Some days are less, yeah. And some of these guys, man, they don't even look at their stuff at night when they go home. It's like in the morning, they're looking at it for the first time, and they got all these. Michael Rainey's good at that, but we're only doing four pages, five pages a day. 60 pages not looking at it is. You're bugged out for that. That's crazy. Yeah, man. Yeah. But, you know, it's like, as you guys know, it's sort of like a muscle, right? Yeah. The more you do it, the more, you know. Well, I used to be like that. No problem. Just with memorization was easy. But then after I got stage fright, which I think I went into the last time, is that I have to be off book because otherwise I freak out. And I'll freeze up. Yeah, me too. I need to know what I'm doing. But I didn't used to be like that. Like when I was doing theater as a kid, like I was, or even a young man up until stage fright, I didn't even think about the lines. Stuff just happened. It just came out. Yeah, that's crazy. It's outrageous. Yeah. The first time you black out and you drop your lines. Well, for me, anyhow, that was the last time I had that sort of like, just willy nilly approach. And then I was like, nah, man, I need to be off book. Know what I'm doing. Now I can play and I can have fun. And because that, when those lines go and you're, suddenly like, that's, that's a scary experience. Do you have any like horrible, like audition stories or like anything that happened on set like that? Or now we have to hear this because he's, he thought of something immediately. I have a lot of horrible audition stories, man. I've had, I've had nightmare audition stories. Oh, I hate auditioning. I had it. I had, I, I've, I've actually, someone told me to do this and it worked for me. Someone told me to say, you like it. So I used to hate it. And then, I did, I, someone, I was like, I fucking hate auditioning. I hate auditioning. And then someone was like, you got to change your attitude about that. Just say, I like it. So literally, I immediately changed it. I was like, I fucking love auditioning. People were like, well, I was like, yeah, I love it. It's like, it's competitive. It's great. And I was lying to myself after two years, I would like, I can't fucking wait till the next one comes in. Cause the competitiveness of it, like, and you know, that feeling when you leave the room, like the, the breath out, but like also you still have the adrenaline. I got like a high from that. So I was like, I literally just said, I liked auditioning for two years and then it became true. And now I love it. All right, man. I'm changing my attitude, Chris. I don't know about you. You got to do it. Just say you love it. Just start saying you love it and you'll just train your brain. And all of a sudden, like you're, I think your body like just follows it. And you're like, okay, I actually start to like it now. It's weird. Someone told me to do it. And I was like, really? And they're like, yeah. And then it worked for me. I do the opposite. I say, this is just a part of it. So you got to deal with it. You know, like you just have to accept this. I hated auditioning. I fuck, I'm not one of those actors who, you know, a lot of actors are also performers, right? They like to be in front of a crowd. They want the room to stop and everyone's looking. I'm not that guy. You know? So when I walk into a room and everything gets quiet and everyone's looking at me like this, I'm like, oh, like that's a nightmare for me. Right? So it took a long, long time for me to get comfortable with auditioning. A long time. And, you know, it would be like I'd go on one and, you know, I'd kill it. And I'd be like, wow, okay. And then the next one, I'd shit the bed. And then the next one would go, ah. And then the next one, I'd, you know, so for me, it was like this roller coaster. It was just this, this, it was a torment, to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. You have to think about it. Like there's nothing natural or what is going to happen on set is happening in that room. Like, it's really like you don't have, you don't have anything. It's just so not the way that it should be. But like, that's the business we're in. So we got to deal with it. But I love it. I know you do. I know you do. I know you do. Me too, Gianni. I love it. I love auditioning. So when, when you sent in your tape for Force, A, what scene was it? And B, did you like hit them up and be like, my, like he read for Tommy back in the day or you totally just like let, was it in? Gary knew. Gary knew that he had auditioned for Tommy. We had like talked about it. And I know that when your audition came in, I mean, it was a great audition. And then I'm, I could, I can also vouch for like, it's, it's like, you know this, it's like, I am like, he's my friend. He's a great guy. He's going to be awesome on set. You know, it's out of my matters too. Sure. Yeah. It's out of my hands at a certain point. Gary's making the decision. Right. Because you're a producer. So you see all the tapes coming in. Yes. Yep. And so I given my two cents, but ultimately it will be Gary in the network and primarily Gary because nine times out of 10, the network's not going to be like, we really want this guy. It's kind of like we, we're trusting Gary. Yeah. As the kind of the guru of the, of whatever talented storytelling is coming in. Right. So we believe him. So it's, it's my responsibility to give my two cents for every audition of every role. But then also because we have a background, it's going to be like, yeah, right. Hey, listen, man, I'm just, I'm I would sign off on Tardio now and hopefully we can get them before he's not going to, because eventually he's not going to be available like in a couple of weeks. Cause he's, he works all the time. So it's like, let's get them and get, bring them to Chicago. Right. So that was, that's pretty much all that thing. But I mean, it was great audition and he's phenomenal in the show. It was a taping, not an audition. It was a taping. It was a self tape. Pretty much all, everyone from force was probably a tape because. Because it was a COVID. Right. That is for me, the, I mean, I say, thank you COVID for that, because it changed this whole thing. Now I get to audition in my home and in the comfort of my home and I don't have to go in this room. You love it. I love tapes. I love tapes. Yeah. I love self tapes too. Love it. I love it. We were talking earlier about LA. That's what I loved about LA. When I used to go audition in New York, I'd walk in and they'd be like, all right, you ready? All right. And it was like, I was disturbing someone's lunch, you know? And after Sopranos, it didn't matter what room I walked into. They thought it was this guy. Like every room I walked in, that's what they saw. And that's what they heard. Right. It didn't matter what I was actually doing. That's what it was. Right. Then I went to LA and they're like, hi, do you want a coffee? Would you like some water? We'll be ready for you in a minute. And I was like, oh, okay. Yeah. Even if it's fake, I'll take that. That's why, yeah. Because it's all about relaxation. Right. Right. Right. I think LA, it was kind of crazy because you started in New York, right? So we kind of have opposites. I started in LA. So when I had, when I was here. I really started in Chicago. I mean, like I'm auditioning since I was 10 years old. Yeah. I forgot about that. That's crazy. That is. And that's what things would be coming. And I'd be coming into town and I'd be missing out, missing out, missing out. But it'd always be like the one other guy that's from, you know, New York or Los Angeles or something like that. But then they would kind of gloss over that. But I still, you know, piecemealed a career out. I never said no. You know, it was always just, always say yes to everything. Industrial commercials, you know, any kind of voiceover, weird like modeling for catalogs, anything that paid money, you know? And then I always had another job. And I think that because I wasn't successful for so long, so long in my career, it allowed me the opportunity of just really being a human being in the world and a lot of observation and a lot of theater. You know, I had a lot of time, a lot of time on my hands. Right, right, right. Well, that's honestly like. I trained my dog. Yeah, yeah, yeah. People, people don't, that's why sometimes these young actors who start off like at 10, eight, seven, six years old and they're so successful, so young, they don't have to evolve. They don't get a lot of, you know, real life experiences, which is sometimes why you see them not work anymore because they're relying on that Disney channel or whatever type acting. Whereas opposed to like the way Michael Rainey grew up, he just grew up on TV, but also just in Staten Island with his friends. And I know all of them and I'm like, they're fucking out of their mind. And I'm like, oh, that's why you're so normal is because this is what you're around. Like I've stayed with Michael at the end of a couple of seasons when I've lost my places for a couple of months. And I've always been like, why is he so like down to earth and normal? And I saw the people he grew up with, even though he, you know, had money and fame at a young age. I was like, oh, that's why you're so fucking normal. Cause these guys are out of their mind. And he just happened to be on TV, but also was around all these normal people. Well, like Shane Harper in our show had success as a young, young man and quite a bit of it. So it's like, he's a, but he's not an anomaly or nothing. Cause obviously Michael's so talented, but like Shane is magnificent. I think as Vic, especially the second season. Oh yeah. Such complexity. And Gary, who was a fan because Gary is the one, I believe that hired him on, um, uh, I want to say it's not, what is it? Hightown. Hightown. Cause I was going to say P-Town, but it's not P-Town. That's P-Valley. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It makes, put them together, but, but on Hightown, uh, which is a great show. I mean, and you got heavy hitters, you know, James Badge Dale, who's a friend is fantastic on that show too, but Shane was great on that show. So I think that Gary really understood how he could use Shane more than I think that he was, let's say how he wasn't utilized. Right. As well as possibly he could have been on that first season, but I think he really is this second season and Shane is stepping up to the plate and he's doing fantastic. I think he got success at like, cause he, we just had him on the crew as it, by the way, I fucking love Shane. He's one of the greatest. Great guy. Great human being. Um, we had him on a couple of weeks ago and he, I think he got success a little, like not so young. I think it was like, so he definitely got some life experience. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Um, but he, um, uh, he was talking about how he was going, cause he was put in a box. Like as you're, you know, you said you were. You were put in a box doing the Soprano stuff. Um, he was put in a box as a, as a Disney actor. So he was going through kind of like a weird part of his life. And he had that, that Bieber hair, shaved the head, shaved the head, did the audition. And that's how he got Hightown. Cause he was in such like kind of a dark place. And like, he was just kind of living his life. Um, and he did that and that's how he got Hightown. Um, so it was interesting. That's how he was saw, how was it be able to be seen not as a Disney guy because he just did what he wanted to do went on with his life. And then again, another thing, like we were saying before physicality is like, oh, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. Like there's a, there is a place for that. Like just having to change. I don't even know. I wonder just like, again, I'm being such an actor. I'm like, yeah, well, how about me again? But I, I really, I really am thinking like, how did, how did, I wonder how I was viewed as a young, you know, cause I didn't have any success. So they didn't. So I was a bit more of a blank slate and I, I did audition for, but nobody knew what to do with me. Yeah. Nobody. And I would audition for everything. Yeah. I guess sometimes it is a gift and a curse because you like, if you're a little more character-y, like you did Sopranos, they're like, oh, he'd be great to play this guy as opposed to being, you know, and they don't know what to do with you. They're like, yeah, you're a great actor, but like, where do we put you? You know? So I guess there's a, there's a gift and a curse to, to being specific in a way. Yeah. I would totally agree because it'd be like, oh, we know that we can go get that guy. Right. Where they're like, you're not quite this. You're not quite that. I'm like, I'm never, I've never been quite anything. Yeah. But yeah. Well now you're fucking Tommy. Now you're Tommy. You're, you're a sealed in as fucking Tommy. Eating ice cream. Yeah. Yeah. Dealing drugs. Do you think, um, like perfect world forced nine seasons? I'm going to say it right now. Let's do it. Um, we're going to talk about it. It's going to happen. Um, like what would be so ideal for you to do next? A comedy again. I mean, my favorite job I ever had was, uh, um, a show called the heart. She holler on adult swim. Okay. I'm going to watch it. Oh, you, you haven't seen it. No. It's so good. It's so good. Did you do a couple episodes? I did. I did, uh, the first season in the second season was my first series, regular job. And, um, it was me, Patton Oswald, Amy Sedaris, Heather Lawless. Wow. Um, like all these really super funny CB groundlings, legends, just great people, which actually that was the job I had right before the power show. And it was super influential to find the, the humor in Tommy. I had just been working with all these really funny people that, uh, it was, they weren't, they were all comedians, but they're all, their timing was so unbelievable. Just that little bit of an extra pause. And so I, I really ended up using so much of that for the Tommy character. I want to piggyback off that because I have a question because obviously like people make the comparisons. We're totally different characters, Brady and Tommy, but like you're the white guy to ghost son. Um, and ghost, uh, did you ever have difficulty? Because I feel like as Braden, that's the hardest thing for me. And I think it's because I'm so much like Braden is so different where I'm so much like lighter and comedy. Cause I don't come from such a dark past. That's why Tommy's dark. Braden comes from a better past, but like, he's trying to break out of that. So he's trying to get into the darkness. But so I feel like the most difficult thing for me is to, to get a script and see Braden and go, this could be really funny or it could be really serious. So sometimes I like, sometimes I don't know where to go with it. Like, and then sometimes directors will come up and be like, this is a really dark episode. We need you to be funny this episode. I'm like, okay, great. I got to do this. And it's gotta be funny or, or as opposed to the opposite where it's like, oh, like Kane is doing a lot of funny stuff. This, um, this episode. So let's, let's get Braden a little more serious. It's hard because different directors want different things. Or do you feel like that was ever a problem with Tommy for six seasons? Like finding the humor or finding the serious stuff for you feel like that wasn't a challenge. I always, um, follow the director's impetus or, or at least give them what they want. And then I've got to be true to who I think the character is. So I always followed what I felt kind of first and foremost, but I'd never said, I don't remember ever saying no. Um, I, I think I'm, I'm the fourth show. There's times where there have been very infrequent, but every now and again, there'll be a director. We'll say maybe this, or even a writer will have a suggestion. I'll be like, okay, well let's talk about that. Where did this come from exactly? Because it's not, I don't, I don't see the value in it necessarily, but I certainly during the power show, there was a couple of jokes when they would write jokes for the Tommy character in the power show. There was a couple of jokes that I was just like, the lemonade has spent decades keeping lemon on top and lime in the shadows. Their lemon agenda has infiltrated everything. Even our music that hits on named after the color of lemons, not a coincidence. Big lemon has been pulling strings in the industry for years. Think about it. But now seven up is fighting back with their new lime lemon soda. Now lime comes first seven up flip the sip. Yeah, it happens. It happens. I still said it. Yeah. You know what I mean? I said, um, but I, I, you know, I think that we've been blessed through with just such talented writers and the power show and great writing on the ghost show. And I really liked Brett. I had a great time working with Brett Mahoney on the ghost show. And I think that's one of the things that I love about this show. And I'm just, and I really believe in Gary Lennon. He's just such a beautiful writer, but there's always, but Gary also trusts me to make the funny. So there's a lot less jokes written in the, in the, um, in the force show, but still every bit there's humor in it every bit because, cause, and I appreciate that. That's a great symbiotic relationship between me and Gary is that he trusts me to find the funny and that's more. Yeah. And that's more fun for me anyway, but not that's not, that doesn't mean that, um, if there's a, if there's a joke, I'm gonna, I'm going for it. Don't worry about it. But I think just like you, I think that we're, we're both adept at finding the funny ourselves too. Right. I think a lot of the funny, which I love from Tommy is, is like the darkness in him. Oh yeah. There's so much humor in the darkness. Like specifically it's coming to my mind when you, um, in power season five, four or five, you run over, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that as real as real? Yeah. And, uh, you run them over. You run them over with a car. It's just like such a, it's just like, it comes from the darkness, but it's just so funny. Like what did you say to him at the end? You okay? Yeah. Yeah. And then your fat fuck of a cousin could have run faster than that. But shout out again to that was really great writing. There was Heather Zolke, the, uh, um, the present show runner of BMF. Right. Oh, no way. Yeah. So she wrote that episode. Yeah. So that was funny. And that, and, um, uh, though, you know, the one, two, 10, that was, that was Heather wrote that. I don't, I don't think I improv to any of that stuff. And I'm like, you got 10 seconds, one, two, 10, you know, it was like, so, so a lot of credit to the writing on that. I mean, it was really great writing and it's such a funny damn scene. Yeah. Just it's, it is. So Tommy, there is such comedy in the, in the, in the darkness. What was, what was your favorite? Um, I want to know both of you, um, your favorite scene obviously in, in force so far that we've seen, we're up to this is being recorded. Episodes, episode five had just aired, right? Episode five or is it episode five just aired? Yep. Yeah. Episode five just air, which we got to get into some Tommy Flanagan stuff. Spoiler alert. If you haven't seen episode five, stop watching this episode and then immediately later. But, um, what's your favorite scene you've done on four so far. And I want to know like some of your favorite scenes from OG power and some of your favorites from force. My favorite scene so far. Um, I think it's with, um, with the grandmother. Um, what was Dre's name? Dre's character's name. Oh, uh, uh, uh, little, little K, little K, little K, little K's grandmother. Okay. I enjoyed that scene. Why data Carter. who plays the grandmother she's fantastic and i really enjoyed working with her she was great she gave you so much attitude she seems super real she wasn't giving now we've become friends we go see we go see shows together and everything she's here yeah we go see some broadway plays that was that was my favorite scene and you have you have some favorites coming up yeah there's some good good stuff oh man oh man the way you said that well the my the favorite My favorites of his scenes is yet to happen. Oh, I can't. What episode is it? Seven. Seven. Okay. Okay. Well, if you watch this episode and you're watching episode seven when it airs, they'll know. Oh, I think so. Okay. Good, good, good, good, good. Oh, is it? It's so funny because when we do this shit, because me and Michael will be like, dude, season four. Because we were filming Crew Has It last year while we were simultaneously shooting season four. And we would come in and recap three. But we like three, that episode was just sick, 306. But like what we just did today. And people are like, what the fuck? We're not going to see this for a year and a half. Stop doing that. At least you guys only have a couple of weeks until that stuff happens. But people are like, people are like a year and a half ago. Me and Michael like that fucking scene in 407 is crazy. But what was some original power ones that you love doing? If you remember. I mean, so many. I think the biggest career scene was killing Holly. Lucy Walters, who I love and adore. That was just a tough 10 hours of kind of doing the same motions of that scene. And it physically exhausting and mentally. And knowing that I wasn't going to be working with my friend no more for a little while. Yeah, that was a tough day. And that was a tough day, tough scene. Can I piggyback on that for one second? Because I don't want you to go into something else. I have such a new respect for stuntmen. Not stuntmen, but like I was watching Rush Hour 3 yesterday. I hadn't seen it in years. And I watched the stuff that Jackie Chan was doing. And I was like, as a kid, when I was watching that movie, I was like, this is, that is so fucking hard. Because I can't imagine how hard just, you know, choking Holly was all day long. It's taxing on you, especially with the acting. And then you see the stuff that Jackie Chan's doing. They got to reset everything. I'm like, this is so fucking hard. And you don't realize it. Like that shit is no joke. So I have a newfound respect after watching. And I can imagine how long that day was doing that. Yeah. And like, just even to piggyback on that, I was going to just say, and I loved so many. I loved working with Omari. Yeah. You know, again, he was a great scene partner and a lot of fun. And we obviously had a ton of scenes together. I think that his death kind of came out. And that was, it was just felt very real in the moment. Right. At the time when that death scene came. And just even Michael was so engaged to the whole thing. Right. And seeing him. And seeing him. So that was a big one. I loved working with Enrique. Yeah. Who you never, kind of never knew what the fuck he was going to do or say. Yeah. And what another just wonderfully talented actor. I really developed a strong bond with Mike Dopid who played the Jason Mitchich. Love him. We got to get him on the podcast. I tried to get him on last week. He's got the best voice. Yeah. And, but he's just a lovely actor. And again, another guy who's just so kind and able to play so deeply evil. Yeah. At the same time. Yeah. So we just had just an unbelievable cast of characters. And on the Power Force show, definitely my scenes are coming up. My episode seven, again, my friend Eric Aviles, who's actually, he's, I love that he's playing a Puerto Rican gangster from Chicago and he was a Puerto Rican gangster from Chicago. And so there'll be a fun, and Eric and I did a play called Zoot Suit together by Luis Valdez. We did that play. We did that play 25 years ago now together. So it was just great to be back on a set with him. So that was a just huge. Larry Newman Jr., who is the guy who Tommy buys the firehouse loft from. Yeah. He passed away. But, and I had never worked with him in Chicago theater and he's a bit of a Chicago theater legend. And I was just like, when his audition came, I was like, oh, can we hire him? He's, he's just a legend. Yeah. And I got to have my scene with him and, you know, rest in peace. So there's been just really wonderful, wonderful times coming up. And also, man, can we just give a shout out? We got to get, you guys got to get Manny on here. Oh, for sure. We're trying to get, we're trying to get everyone from force over the next couple of weeks. Ahmad's flying in tomorrow. Oh, is he? Yo, we got, we're trying to get everyone here. We got Patricia, who plays your mother. She's coming on tomorrow too. Oh, you're going to have a great time with her. She's a blast. I've been DMing her. She's the best. I was like, I was like, we're going to have a great time. She goes, that's all we ever need to do is have a great time. I was like, cause that's kind of how I live my life. I'm like, I'm pumped for that. Yeah. Yeah. But we're trying, I'm trying to get Isaac. We're going to go back to LA. I'm going to get Isaac on. Great human being. But Patricia's killing it this season. Oh, for sure. For sure. Again, she's been given a great amount to do and she's knocking it out of the park. Right. I really want to get into her brain about OG power and how like, I can't wait. I think it's just such an amazing thing, this whole universe and what we get to do. And I hope we have more crossover stuff, which, you know. Yeah. Hopefully that, that starts happening. The boy's going to come to Chicago. Oh yeah. I want, I had a question that hit my brain. When you brought up Enrique, he talked about when he did his episode, kind of on your John Voight story, where him and Omari accidentally hit each other and they got into something during his death scene. I remember that. I was there. I want to hear a little bit, but like, did you, did you have any of those scenes that happened with you and Omari where like you guys really got into it or some of that accidentally happened or not even Omari? Or Omari with someone else? Yes. Black Grimace. Oh yeah. We, there's a scene where Tommy beats him up in the, in the big warehouse. Guy named Sandy was directing that episode and. His real name's Avery, correct? Avery. Yeah. Yeah. Black Grimace. Yeah. Avery. Yeah. Great guy. Great guy. So they had me wearing this camera and they, they used it for maybe about 20 seconds, but I was filming with that thing on for at least four hours. Total, I would take it off and stuff, but it was way too long to having that camera on and I was exhausted. And then there was a point where afterwards where I have him down and I'm, you know, like punching and there was one time where I knew the camera's here. I knew I had to go a little bit, but I have, you know, I've got this one knuckle. That's a big old bull knuckle there. And I got him right in the forehead and then immediately he had an egg there and I stopped. He's like, no, no, keep going. It's okay. And then I was like, no, no, it's not okay. And then I was like, you know, make sure he's all right. And then the thing was just swelling up like this. I said, God damn it. He's like, no, no, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. And I said, Avery, it matters. You matter. It's never okay to hit somebody. It's unprofessional. It should never happen. I'm sorry that it did happen, but let's make sure it never happens again. Then I made sure there was a bottle of Dom Perignon in his camper. You did that? Oh, that's nice. But it was just like, you know, it's unprofessional. Yeah. In fact, I had- But it happens. Oh, it happens. But I had from when I was on Banshee. I had gotten a cracked sternum and cracked ribs and a bruised sternum that almost cracked. It was awful. It was the most pain I've ever been in my life. And then I did an episode afterwards of, oh, God, Shanna did this show. It's called- Shanna Stein. Shanna Stein. She was a producer, director also on- She's awesome. I'll give Joe a second to pull the name of that thing. Oh, God, come on. Shanna's a great person, really. Shanna's very beautiful. I saw her last week. I want to say unstoppable, unbreakable. There we go. Unforgettable. Unforgettable. Thanks, Dave. Thanks, Dave. And so I did an episode of Unforgettable afterwards, and there was a guy who was playing my brother on the thing, and we were doing a fight scene. And I said to the stunt coordinator, who I know quite well, I said, look, got to let this guy know I got some bruised ribs. We can do the thing, but I have to go down slow. Can we cut here? We did. The whole thing worked out. Well, you know. So the other actor, who shall remain nameless. Joe's a nameless guy. Maybe we call people out in here. Ice Cube, you never showed up to the podcast. Continue. We're going to call that the little three. So he, the actor, was caught up in the moment, as you know sometimes actors do. And then we stopped, and I was like, Jesus fucking Christ. You know, God damn it. Listen, man, are you all right? This is not going to happen again. Well, it happened. And I got up, and he's like, bro, I'm sorry. I said, you are sorry. You're unprofessional. Like, I fucking went off on this guy right in front of the cast. And I said, I need him. It was like one of the first times I ever did this shit, ever. Anyway, the props department became the props department on the Power Show. No. And they totally remembered. Wow. They were like, you did warn the guy. That was, because I was like, I need him in it. And then the first AD is like, we're losing light. We're going to do this. I said, taking a walk. Yeah. I'll be back in a second. Hopefully you get another take. I was so mad. But I always remember. I always remember that, that there just isn't an excuse. Shit happens. But when it happens twice, go fuck yourself. Right, right, right. I get a little bit mad. Yeah, no, I definitely get that. Yeah. Shit does happen as an actor. Like, you want to be as in the scene as possible. But like, to be professional, you can't, don't fucking hit people. Don't do that, because it will fuck up a scene. If you get something on your face or something, you can't continue shooting. Yeah. Especially like, you know, if you do that to a lead, and you're a guest person, which is like, you know, hey, look, shit happens too. Like, then they can't shoot for the next rest of the week. You're costing all these thousands and thousands. It's just like, do your homework. Practice a little bit. You have to know there has, there is. a we're skilled people you know we're good actors and then we have to be a capable at the stunt and we have to know where we're at to you know right make sure that it's in there it's funny because i'm thinking about like avery because i like we've talked about we follow each other on instagram we talk a decent amount and a lot of times actors who especially on power because we have such a big fan base and everyone loves the show that when they come on the show they're like you could fucking throw me off a roof bro yeah right yeah like run me over with nine cars i just want to be on power so i assume when you hit avery he's like no it's fucking this is tommy egan like i don't give a fuck tommy hit me hey exactly it's a story for him um but yeah that's that's i wanted to give him so much love though too because he's such a wonderful human being i really had a great crew of guys you know jr and avery and we had like the a fun fun crew on the jr's a fucking man too oh he's fantastic yeah i just i i really have met some of the guys that i've met in the show and i've met some of the guys that i've met in the show and i've met some of the guys that i've met in the show and i've met some of the guys that i've met some of the i can't you've been here six years five years longer than me um i've really met some of the greatest fucking people in the world and this whole universe everything and it just it keeps growing i was in chicago with you guys i met all your writers i'm like is there a fucking bad person like i love how about how great is kendra the best the best she is and she loves she was a power fan really oh yeah such a power fan she remembers she's like chris lofton when i'm just like what episode was that you know and lofton's like that was season three episode two it's crazy man i'm like and that was like and that and that guy's name was like dominic now he's like yeah it was like dom dominic but like you know it's like spelled it with a k and this and i was like what the wait he talked about his tape when he when he came on crew has it for his first time he talked about how his tape he went crazy he was he was breaking shit he only going he showed me you seen it yeah i was like they hired you after they saw that they hired you wait why what was it like because you're a producer you've seen it but like i didn't know you seen it what was that tape it was wild it was wild you know it was like could be a liability i mean yeah you know but he's he's fantastic what a sweetheart right yeah yeah yeah he he was in like a hotel he said he did it like a four seasons that makes it even better yeah it was a damn salad it was raw it was raw yeah and he's been so raw this this this uh gen zell uh episode episode four knocked it out of the park he showed up ready but also we got to give credit to kieran hawks who directed that episode because i like i often say that when people are like hey man that was a great episode i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god it was a breakout performance well you can give the actor some credit and other people deserve the credit blah blah you got to spread that out but when every actor in the entire episode is shining which is what happened episode four you kind of got to look to the director for sure and and he just did a magnificent job what a fucking episode it's the first episode i watched three times i gotta say wow that's that's wrong i watched it four times because i saw it raw too right the original yeah yeah that's crazy what um i was gonna ask wait what was my uh oh oh the tommy flanagan stuff r.i.p walter flynn rest in peace walter flynn how great of a guy is he he's the best the best he's the best he loves you sings your praises of course bust your nuts and sings your praises so we'll literally he will i'm not joking he will text me now at like 3 a.m like what are you doing you little and i'm like nothing you'll fuck what he's doing he's like let's meet at malibu uh so uh tomorrow for lunch i'm like bet i'll see you there you old fuck i like see if you can make it it's so fucking funny like that's just a relationship we have i love it um when you saw those like when that was being written or because you do i went to that film to see to watch that being filmed not that not the entire night but i was there for a huge part of that day um and uh lisa domain who directed it she's also a supervising producer on season two of power book four force she i think she did a great job um uh it was really uh you know highly coordinated and uh you know she did a great job um and uh lisa domain who directed it she i think she did a great job um and episode five and i think that what they did as well to give some love to guy van swearengen who plays paulie pierogi uh he guy went out like a boss you know and he it's a shame to lose him too i hated it because he had such the authenticity of chicago that it's like he's such a chicago guy and you know he's got that's his accent and you know that it's like he's he's the real deal so it's gonna suck to lose that um but man what a fucking episode i mean and gary has uh he's got uh had he still has because it's not over with yet uh a really tough task of kind of like you know shrinking this world and and expanding a world at the same time i think and he's doing an amazing job at it for sure i'm really i'm really really enjoying being um an audience member this this season and i'm really getting into the characters yeah you find it you find it hard to be an audience member also as the lead of the show and a producer for some reason it seems easier now yeah because like with anything i mean you have to fight for your seat at the table and again to mention our show's name is that nobody gives up power freely so just because you get called a producer it doesn't really mean anything you know i want to be like hey i want to help because not only do i love chicago but you know being from chicago but like i i study the shit out of that because it's like i've been gone for i've lived in new york for decades and it's like i went back early to get to re-know the city to re-find these places to to have this influence you know and i i did grow up around a as we all did as as urban guys grow up we know the shady characters and i want the show to reflect what i know to be real but then i want to know what real is but then if you're not paying attention people are like oh i'll tell i'll do this i don't know why right it's gary's much more inclusive but gary's in la a lot you know gary's not on the ground every single second so it was hard to it out i don't want to step on toes i don't want to hinder the process but i'm just like i want this to be amazing i care so much well i feel the same way like and even you've been here way longer than me i go up after i'm done shooting for the day i'll go up to brendan's office who's our um have you met brendan walsh great guy um i'll go up to his office i'm like what's the next script look like like like i just want it to be great so season four we've actually found a lot of like little little things because as we know like for shows sometimes the littlest things are like the biggest things that the coolest things like a lot of stuff that um tommy and ghost used to do like the little things were what people fucking loved about the show like your guys's brotherhood like when you're in you know for example uh um changing changing clothes oh yeah burning them that was a great scene but like sometimes that stuff's not even scripted like you guys are like okay they're having this conversation or maybe in early drafts it's like something so small of you two in a thing burning clothes and talking about something fucking real that matters it makes the show so much better because people at home are like well that's fucking badass like these two are burning clothes they just murder people as opposed to before it just being like them walking down the street yeah like and i feel like force this season has done such a good job of like honing in on that the minutiae i think you're totally right right they really have done a great job like even uh dr kendall's uh when they uh broke his hand like i just thought that that's what you know forgive me i wish i could remember that actor's name and i'm sure i've seen it a million times he did well he killed it yeah he was amazing and manny was great too and max arseniego who you know plays uh max or manny's number two miguel's number two is just i thought everybody was so pitch perfect in that scene and then making smashing his hand with an award yeah i was like yo that's fucking rowdy wild good for you sammy yeah who also plays joey in the thing our writer who wrote that episode he was great in that scene he was great and again a chicago voice a real chicago voice oh sammy's chicago sammy's grew up in the northwest side but he gangbanged on the southwest side did did you stay there for um the whole the whole year you lived in chicago for i was actually i was there for i think uh the first like two months and then i started to go back and forth between episodes yeah yeah yeah it was the way i was bored and it was great great we got to go down to the art institute man i loved it i i fell in love with chicago like really enjoyed it but i was there in the ideal time because it was i got there in what june beginning of june and i was there until very beginning of october or september that's a perfect time the weather was you listened to the shana harper episode you told me when you walked in and i was saying in that episode i was like i just want to fucking shoot in la and i want to leave set and i want to go to your fucking boots and bellows i want my parking space i want to go to booty bells but i just fucking got upset with the bottles that's my i don't i and i'm gonna start appreciating shooting in new york more um do do you where do you like shooting like have you shot in la yes and what do you think about it um i you know when i was listening to all that i thought it was interesting you know and and in in ways i feel like you do but then i also like what chris was saying right you know about going to this so it doesn't really feel like work right you know um i like to travel i'm a traveler so i'm going to go to this place and i'm going to go to this place so it's like a summer camp uh yeah summer camp type vibe yeah and i had that that's what the experience was in chicago you know and it was like i'm learning the city and all these new people and you know it was um i felt like i was on a high for three months straight you know when when you get that new job or you meet a new girl it's something you know i just met a new girl i'm on that right now yeah yeah i'm down bad boys yeah you know when you're riding that high well this one was an extended period usually it doesn't last that long yeah you know like three months straight and i remember being in it like you're saying now you're you're stopping to like yeah take it all in and yeah i i was aware that i was in that i fucking love that i love that you're in that place because i want that's why i want to be because for so long i was just like yeah this is fucking dope cool cool cool what are we like i really want to start cherishing it more okay i love shooting in new york it's my i love it you like it better than chicago you know i better choose my words wisely it's i i love shooting in new york so much i loved shooting in chicago too It was nostalgic for me, but it was also, I think that I liked, I appreciated when we got into the neighborhoods a little bit more in Chicago in season two. I don't mind using the beauty because it is an architecturally beautiful city. And that's cool. We still got that in. But I like showing the super market, the little taco stands, and I love showing not just the barbershop, but the areas around the barbershop where we've had two victims already, innocent victims in our season. And I love that they had that because it's, and we don't just pass it by. We follow that person into the hospital or into death or that mother. And we're showing, man, this is amazing. You really want to be part of this life? I mean, it's terrible. It could be just terrible. Right. Really vicious. Right. Fuck. I love that they're doing that. Me too. Yeah. Me too. And I, yeah. So I love how they're utilizing Chicago. I think that Courtney and the writers did a magnificent job of utilizing New York City too. Because it wasn't just all these scapes of Manhattan. It was a ton of great stuff in Queens, a ton of great stuff in Staten Island, quite frankly. And the Bronx and we utilized every borough and I, I just felt they did an incredible job because power isn't, wasn't true. It wasn't the wire and that was never meant to be. Right. It was kind of an, an skewed version, but that's really tough to do because if you make something askewed, you have to stick by those skewed rules that you made up and stick to them, you know, as best as you can. So I think that they did that. And I think that, I think that Gary did that to Chicago. It's now ours. Like we own it. Yeah. There's a, I think there's a real possession. It's part of the city now. I just can't wait to get back and do season three. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. This strikes fucking almost over. Thank God. But, but to go back onto what you said, yeah, like it, it is really cool. Like last night I was going, I just went out in Brooklyn and I was with my, my videographer, who's a huge power fam before we even met. And, um, I was, do you watch ghosts? Have you seen all the episodes? Yeah. Yeah. You know, where I couldn't kill the, uh, the progies. Yeah. I was, I was, uh, we were driving, we literally passed that church and I was like, oh, that's super cool. Like we literally, um, and I was with Garrett who's on Canaan. He was on the original power as well. He's a base camp guy. Great fucking guy. And, um, I was like, yeah, that's where I couldn't. And then Tariq shot the, um, the guy with the progies. And he was like, wait, what? And like, you don't realize like how, I was like, yeah, it's just like a location right there. And I was like, wait, where's this party? He's like, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa. You like have to like roll down the window and be like, dude, it looks so different. Like that's so cool to people. And I was like, I was like, actually, you know what? That is really fucking cool. That like, he's like, you guys just shoot on the side of the street. And I was like, yeah, like that's literally what we do. Like people don't get that sometimes. It's funny that you're mentioning churches because, um, there was a few churches that I got to shoot at in the, uh, um, in the original because, you know, remember the father Callahan character? We did that. Was that Jim Norton? Jim Norton. So fucking cool. And what a great actor Jim Norton is. What a great underestimated actor is. That guy was frigging brilliant. Yeah. And hilarious. Like anything, like, of course he added like that. The levity and that stuff to the character, but like, he was so good at being damn serious. It was Jim Norton. How, how amazing is this guy? He's a comedian and he's great and he's brilliant and funny. And yet he allowed me to be funny with him. Yeah. Generous. Cause he could have taken everything. Right. But he allowed that. I was, I'm eternally grateful to Jim Norton for that. Yeah. He's a good dude. Yeah. Yeah. But then also the place was right on Washington street, the church where the Koreans shot up and ghosts came out of the nowhere. That was a fucking amazing scene. That was a great scene too. A lot of, a lot of churches. And then Shane Harper's character in there, the Vic Flynn character lives in an old converted church. Yep. Yep. Which I kind of love too. All that stuff. I think there's so much beauty in, in the, in churches. So a lot of times. For sure. Scouts are like, that looks cool. You're like, oh, okay. You're right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, all right. So before we, I did, did, uh, Alvin tell you I went to Poland? We were talking about traveling. Did Alvin tell you I went to Poland? You told me you went to Poland. Oh, did we talk about this? Yeah. In Chicago. Oh, right, right, right. Oh, I did. Oh, I talked to you about it. Not your brother, Alvin. That's so funny. We were supposed to get lunch. Yeah. Cause I know you're a Polish guy. And so is Dave. Dave's like dying. He's like, um, you've never been though, right? Never been to Poland. Gotta go. I know. Dave. Yes, you're Polish. He doesn't know what that means. He went. No, did you, did you, did you see what he said? He said right back to me. He just said. You're right. We'll, we'll dub it in. Hey, give me a kiss. Depends on who you say it to. Where's, where's favorite places you guys have traveled? I just was in Crete for a month. Oh, wait, why were you there? Just chilling? Yeah. Strike. Wow. Yeah. Wow. It was dope. I'm, I'm, I'm partial to Greece. I mean, and I don't go to Mykonos. I don't go to those places. Yeah, it's too touristy. I mean, there's no, all the food, right? It's all grown there. There's no chemicals. There's no GMOs. Everything's fresh. The Mediterranean is like healing. You know, you, I just. Hands down, Greece for me. You meet any girls there? I did not. Wait, are you, are you married or no? I'm not married. Oh my God, dude. This guy looks like this and he's fucking single, dude. Get out there, baby. Yeah. Get, slide in his DMs, okay? Look at that fucking hair, dude. Are you kidding me? I know, I know. I'm so jealous. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Wait, did you meet girls out there or no? I did not, man. I, from what I understood, it was like, so I stayed in this Airbnb and this couple there, the woman, you know, said to me. I told her I was looking for a Greek wife and she was like. Is that actually where you went? No, no. But, and she said, you know, you've come to the wrong place. I said, why? She goes, my husband from Crete, he's from Sphakia in this, in Crete. And she goes, I'm from, I don't know, Kaz is the island. Kaz, yeah. Which is like, I don't know, very close to Crete. Right. And she said it took his family 10 years to accept her as his wife because she was not Crete. Oh my God. So she's like, yeah. And I mean, there were other women from Europe there, but that's not why I go. When I was young, that's why I would go. No, that's why I go. I just went to Europe for a month too. That's why I'm going. Yeah, no, no, no. At this age for me, it's about like, that's the cradle of Western civilization. Right. The Minoan civilization, all that. That's what I'm interested in. Yeah. I love the architecture, but I love. Yeah. Chris is big into the science behind the architecture, which I also love too. The old mathematics, the storytelling within the architecture. The myth. Yeah. All that stuff. What's your favorite place you've ever gone? Probably Italy. Probably Gala Mattesi. Joe Perino's village. Where his parents are from in Italy. I went and stayed with him and his family up in the, it's about an hour into the mountains from Naples. Joe Perino played Vincent, what's his last name? Vincent. He was the mob boss that beat up Tariq with the orange. He was the boss that beat up the orange. I'm like, hey, let's go out. Let's get a glass of wine. Let's go play pool. Anything to plug? Anything coming out that you can't? I don't know what we can really say. I've just been writing. I have nothing coming out, just this show. You've just been writing since the strike ended three days ago, right? Chris is a great writer. Chris has sold scripts. Yeah, Chris, he's been writing for a long time and really interesting stuff. He writes scripts from the ground up. Yeah. Well, I want to start when the strike is completely over doing force recaps. So I would love to have you back on, Chris. Obviously, Joe, you can literally call me at 3 a.m. and be like, I want to do a crew hazard right now. I'll be like, all right, the crew's coming. And then you're going to text me right back and be like, all right, old man, you can make it. Get over here, old man. But honestly, I'm so glad. Obviously, I miss my boy Michael today, but I'm so glad that we got to meet him. I miss your boy Michael, too. I know. Love that kid. He's the best. He's the best. But yes, JosephSakura4 on Instagram. Yep. And then plug your Instagram. Look at his fucking hair. Slide in, dude. Slide into his hair. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for having me. What is your, say it again for your Instagram and all your hands. Just ChrisTardio. ChrisTardio. No underscore, no nothing. No nothing. Dude, look at him. He got the ChrisTardio. I'm GianniVPayolo on Instagram. I fucking, whoever has GianniPayolo, we need to fight. But yes, TikTok, Instagram, we got crewhazardmerch, vlogs, you know, all of it. All right, so Joe. Michael's not here right now, so I need you to, I need you to do what we usually do at the end. We yell. What do we yell at the end of the episode? The crew has it. The crew has it. Yes, baby. The crew has it. And you have it. Thank you so much, guys, for pulling up. I appreciate it. Thank you. You know what else I do love? I do love that you and Michael have the handshake. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It is cool. In the show? Yeah. Yeah. That was actually my handshake with my friends growing up. Oh, yeah? And we were trying to figure out in the day, like, what's our handshake? And then we did it, and I was like, oh, that's kind of cool. So me and Omari's comes from. Oh, wait, wait. We're not ending this episode. I need to hear this. It comes from my old graffiti crew would shake up because in Chicago, graffiti culture is so enmeshed in gang culture. Yeah, you guys are slower than ours. So ours, no, no, it's not. But our whole thing was, so for UAC, we'd go like this, U, and then you'd slide back on the same finger. Yeah. And it would go like, well, we'll just be careful with that. Anyway, there was a whole handshake. A whole handshake. So ours is just basically this, so we're pointing at each other instead of making the handshake. Yeah. Yeah. We're pointing the U. Yeah. And then what do we do? Then it was just like quick, right? Yeah. And it was like something like that. And then I throw up the four, and he throws up the five. I wasn't ever sure why. I never asked him, because we would always do that back, and then I would always throw up the four, because it was the second part of our thing. And then he, oh, I would always do five. We need to get him on here, me and him together. I would love Omar to come on. Please get him on. Oh, come on. Let's go do this Crew Hazard show together. Yes, please. And here's the thing, what just kind of like broke my heart a little bit, you haven't, when's the last time you did that? When's the last time you've done that handshake with him? It's been a while. It's been a while. I'd like to break the fast here on the Crew Hazard. Yo, oh my God, that would be crazy. Look at Dave, he's salivating. Thank you so much, guys. Wow, that was a cool little epilogue at the end, you know? We appreciate it. Woo! Thank you, Joe. I appreciate it. Of course, bro. Woo, of course. Thank you.