we only have sex in public

[Music] This episode of Everybody Has a Secret is brought to you by Brown Brothers Frutti Range. It's bold, it's flavorful, and it's anything but dry. Sip loudly, live shamelessly. [Music] Hey Shoshis, welcome back to Everybody Has a Secret. My name is Annabelle Lee, and your name, my brilliant co-host, is Charlotte White. Hello Annabelle, she gave me two fingers just now to your name. The finger gums. Hi Shoo, and hello producer Per. Hello! Hi! I'm in a mood. Oh wow. Firstly because I've had two, this is my second coffee. How is that possible? Because I woke up right nearly and I was like, I need coffee. I wrapped up to the office and I was like, I need coffee. You went to get one. Sorry, coffee chat, way too much of it. Yeah, for. The second reason why I'm in this mood is because I have been listening to a playlist. What playlist? We know it in this vault, but I feel we've forgotten to tell the Shushis about this playlist. And you know, Hot Girls, don't get it. True. It's the one we made for the E Has live shows back in March. E Has code, it is what it's called. Oh my god, fantastic, go-tod playlist, by the way. So I guess you could call this a recommendation of sorts. We'll leave a link to this playlist in the show, because there are some bangar songs in there. It's so good, specifically, if you're getting ready to go out for a big night. It's just high-pump vibes. Yeah, so this is the playlist that we were playing as Shushis were entering. The live show venue. I'll give you some examples of some songs just to set the tone. And it's just so funny as I'm scrolling through this playlist. You can see who's added songs. And it's like, oh, a bit of Lucy Hunt out had a podcast, a bit of Louis Hanson, a bit of me. And then all of a sudden it's just like Ruby, Ruby, Ruby. Oh, yeah, you've been keeping this playlist before since the live show's ended. Oh my god, wait, I think I've added songs like recently. Because why? Why is, where is my husband on there by Ray? No, and like that is such a good shout from you. We also have from you work from home. Which is like, oh, hell yeah. The fabrica d'abra, believe. Taylor Swift, the life of the showgirl. So you have been updating this recently. Maybe I've accidentally been putting songs into this instead of putting them on a live playlist. Okay, no shade Ruby, but dare I say. Life of the showgirl doesn't belong. No, I completely agree. Can we just go? I don't think it's good to have discourse. Yeah. Show what do you think? I think, I remember adding Vicarious, like through you guys, being like, you should add this, you should add that. Yes. So I think it's really strong at the beginning there until halfway through about Ruby's. Like definitely. I mean, it's made an error. No, right. We'll have to edit this before we give it to the Shushes. There's a version, Shushes, that you're going to get this morning on a Friday. We'll be edited version. That's perfectly curated for you. Yeah, we also have the song that we used for the video shoot that you created. The live show video before we. Your hype-up song. The hype-up song, yeah. We have, I remember loving the section of this playlist that I added. Good ones. Good ones by Charlie X. Good ones. That one is great before a night. So good, dude. Anyway. Underrated. I have recently added one song to this because I can't be listening to this playlist on repeat at this time of the year without also sprinkling in. A Christmas song, my favorite one. Oh my god. All I want for Christmas, that some would say don't belong in this hype-up playlist, but I would disagree. Yeah, we go for midnight sun by Zyra Larsen, straight into all I want for Christmas is you. I'd say that that's not a very soft transition. But I'm into it. I'm into it. Let me be married. No, Annabelle is so married. And this actually segues into what I wanted to discuss this morning. Okay. May I? Please do. Okay, so Annabelle, it gets to about dare I say, "October." And Annabelle's like, "I can sense the Christmas cheer coming." And so I wanted to anticipate the Christmas cheer. We were discussing as a group the other day. Do people still get photos with Santa like family photos at the shopping mall? Family shopping mall. The shopping center. Okay, America. I know. And I'm like, "Should we do that? Is that fun and funny for us?" I think it's hilarious. Like a completely appropriate Santa photo. Yeah. Or like a serious one. I feel like we get a few. Well, yeah, a few different vibes. I so agree with you. I don't think firstly I've gotten one in my life. It is a family thing to do. I don't think I ever did that with my family growing up. But this is family. And this is family. And this is Ohana. Exactly. 100%. Ohana means getting a Christmas photo together with Santa. That's what we've always said. Yeah. This is actually really exciting me. Even more, I thought that I was like at max levels of excitement. Yeah. But this has shot me through the roof. Yeah. I am so excited to do this. We were also just quickly. We were also like, should we dress up? Look to each other. And we were like, no, we're still a bit too. One of us is too burnt from the Taylor Swift Halloween get. From the who is she doing? She can't forbid our dress up as an elf and people aren't. But who is she? No. I can't play Charlotte. Yeah, the wig was a bit. That is so obvious that you were Taylor Swift. Wait, I'm an elf with a tiny hat. How are you? But elves have tiny hats. Yeah. Anyway. She's actually loving the milk. No, I'm sorry. Also, we'll be vlogging at two, won't we? So it'll end up on the e-haz podcast socials when we go and get this photo. I love this. I love this. I love Christmas. And I'm sorry for yelling. No, it's okay. I just need you guys to get in the Christmas spirit. E, what if you don't celebrate Christmas? Like, my family isn't that big. We don't actually do much for Christmas at all. Like, we have lunch together, like, the four of us on Christmas Day. Yeah. But there's something about the energy in the air. In the holiday season. Yes, gorgeous. And it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can smell exactly. No, it hits you. I can smell it. It hits me from October. 100%. So, guys, get around it. I'm so excited. I am also so excited to hear today's secret ruby. All right, babes. This secret comes from Shona. I've somehow entered up in a messy humiliation ship with my older colleague. Oh, I don't know what a humiliation ship is, but I'm keen to find out. Yeah, me too. Let's call him Blake. I'd actually be lost without his guidance at work. He's a fair bit older than me, but he's not my senior manager. Anyways, out of the blue, Blake found an excuse to hit me up. He started messaging me both inside and outside of work hours. Long story short, I started to like him, and the feelings were mutual. Then I got pretty intimate between us after a work happy hour catch up. Blake and I were the last ones at the bar, and he told me how pretty I looked, grabbed my hand, and we almost kissed. The following day at work, Blake was cryptic and made it clear that he didn't actually like getting involved with co-workers, which I totally get, but I felt a bit confused. He was the one who flirted with me in the first place. But his cautiousness didn't stop us. As we spent more time outside of work together, we got to know each other on a more physical level. I am talking hand and mouth stuff. It's giving like foot and mouth. I don't know, it was just a weird way to phrase it. Sure enough. Yeah, thank you for sharing my thoughts. And passionate make-out sessions in parks, dark bars, and alleyways. This is high school. It's giving hand and mouth stuff. For me, it felt so exciting and honestly, a miracle that I was attracted to a guy again. I hadn't been intimate with anyone else after a previous shitty relationship. I was loving it. Until another co-worker commented on how attractive she found Blake. Blake is so sexy. It's a real shame he's in a long-term relationship. Oh, I knew that'd be something. It's a waste of known. My head started running laps around what he must have lied about. When I asked who he lived with, he said of roommate. Oh, my God. They were roommates. When I asked about his last relationship, he said it ended roughly a year ago. At one point, I jokingly asked if he was secretly married, because I didn't understand why he wouldn't give us a proper chance to date. I can't believe it. There are really no words to describe the pool I feel towards this man. I confronted him and tried to tell him it was over, but we still continue to see each other every few weeks to usually have sex, never indoors, or somewhere illicit. Oh, Jesus Christ. Sometimes Blake flakes on me. But if I don't have a surprise surprise, it's in the name. You're a flaky, Blakey. But if I don't answer, he'll double, triple, and quadriple text me in a span of a few hours. It's like I can't have him, but he won't leave me alone. Then he flat out asked me if I'd like him to leave his partner for me. I explained I would never encourage him to do that. It was up to him. And how on earth could I commit knowing he is a cheater? I'm trying to forget about him. I'm dating other guys, and I know he's a shit person and a liar. But I'm struggling to break free because nothing comes close to the connection I have with him. Girlies, I fear my trusted friends are growing tired of the red lent list back and forth, so I need your advice. How on earth do I get over this man, especially while we still work together? And I know this might sound delusional, but is there a chance that he could be my person? I understand that some relationships start out this way, and I fear I won't find anything else like it. Shona. Oh, Shona. Shona, Shona, Shona. Flaky, flaky, Blakey. Let's get into this one, but right after a word from today's sponsor. Hey, sponsor. Shushes, when it comes to wine, I'm loving the flavors from brown brothers. They're shaking things up with their fruity range and their new campaign Anything But Dry. We are talking about wines made for those who like what they like without any guilt or apologies. This range is all about celebrating individuality and enjoyment in a modern way. Think the fruity sparkle of Mascato, the juicy notes of Siena, the pop of their spritz options and the total tropical lift of the new Mascato lush lychee. They literally have something for every moment. This range connects with our vibe, its vibrant, social and full of personality. Fruity Wine is a confident choice when you're enjoying time with friends. Sib loud, live shamelessly. Try the juicy brown brothers fruity range now. It's fun, fruity and may for your next get together. Cheers guys! Thank you to brown brothers for supporting this episode of Everybody Has a Secret. Alright, Shoo. Back from break. Yes. How do we feel? It's sweet. There is like a glaringly obvious power imbalance here. And this man is like, low key of walking. High key of walking H.R. violation. High key like all the way up. Yeah, all the way up here. Really obvious H.R. violation. Even though she said that he's not her manager. I think she said something about being lost without his guidance at work. Yeah, that's correct. So it's like he's older, he's more experienced. I just hate that the onus falls on her. Like her reputation, her career progression. If it all goes wrong, it's just on her. And he's the one that should be saying no. Even though yes, there's a connection. I just had to point out the T at the top. Yeah. And like he's the one in the long term relationship. Yeah, if this were to come out, her reputation, as you say, will be marred by this. Definitely. So in the secret Ruby, you mentioned the term humiliation ship. And I'm going to take a, I don't really know what it means. And I'm going to take a stab in the dark. I've got no idea. So please. Okay. Well, obviously it has the word humiliation in it. And do you think it's literally maybe I have nothing up here? The fact that they've got something and it's like not, you know, the morally correct situation to be in. And if things fall apart, she will be the one to be humiliation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it like situation chip, but the situation is humiliation because it's genuinely never going anywhere. And I've seen a comment in our document, please, from Ruby Hall, please. This is what she says. I mean, you are here. So I could, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm, I should have seen anything. Should I put on my Ruby Hall, have I? Yeah, yeah, I've got to be really cute and pretty and smart and also and warm and warm and soft and sunshiney. Okay. So this is what humiliation ship means according to Ruby. Yeah. It's adjacent to a situation chip. It's basically an extension of a situation ship. I don't know if your friends can tell you you're in one. It's something you have to admit to yourself when it turns into a bit of a joke, goes on for too long. No hope inside kind of vibe. Whereas the situation chip may lead somewhere, emphasis on the may, still plenty of mercenaries. Ruby, that is the clearest thing. I like it. I love it, Ruby. Well done. But like also, was I right? You were right. You were right, too. You were right. I was a bit vague. It was a group effort. Yes. It was a club. So it's like humiliation ship is the worst version of a situation chip. Yeah. It also seems like the funny one. If you like, I might as well. How do you see comedy in every situation? Yeah, I try. I try. See, I feel like if I'd left a humiliation ship, I'd feel like way more traumatized than a situation ship. Yeah. Because you're in, I think, a bit more control in a situation ship. Or you know the outcome, I think. Yeah. Wait, so Shona knows that this is a humiliation ship. She's called it that. T. Well, because yeah, he's a work guy, which is fine. Yeah. She's saying a lot of people meet each other in the workplace. Yes. Or she's, I think she's actually saying here that a lot of people meet the one and it might be a result of cheating. I think is what she's saying at the end. Yeah. But a lot of people meet each other in the workplace and yeah, that could be fine. It is fine for a lot of people who do that. I'm not really. But he's got a partner. Yes. Yes, he does have a partner. But also like those people that have started relationships in the workplace, I wonder if they have been doing the hands and mouth stuff in the alleyways and in the elicit places. Like, can we touch on that as well? I think, I mean, I've never experienced this, but I think probably, right? Isn't there some sort of like funness in that idea? Yes, I think there's a specific kink where you only like have sex, slash be intimate in risky places. I wish I had the word for it right now. I'll let it out. There could be an element of this as well. Yeah, it's giving secretive though. Yeah, yeah. And and shading. And yeah, it's giving shading you guys. Yeah. So it's called dogging by the way, a slang term for having sex in public places like parks or parking lots. Oh. And it's that. Are you an orphan? I thought I had like a long word. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let me just. No, I'm sure you're sure. I'm just dogging. Dogging just. Oh, no. And then another word came out voyeurism, the practice of gaining sexual pleasure from watching harm. That's the one. When they're naked or engaged, I guess. So yeah, the risk of someone seeing you that turns people on. But they're doing this because it's such a secret relationship. That's why he's got it out in public. Where else is going to have sex with her? He probably lives with this partner. Yeah. He's giving like real. It's way to the walk out. Let's go to the dark alleyway. And he's also like not even going to rent a hotel room or something. Oh. It's like, we can't also be in a bed. You're just kind of making me and I know something will in power and that's fine. Yeah. But like, show no, what do you actually want? Yeah. Because I think there's also a distinction to be made here, not condoning cheating obviously. Never. But it's not even like he's going, I'm going to break up with my partner. You're the one. Yeah. I see this as my life thing. You are my life thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's being like, I could if you want me to. He's also kind of giving mixed messages because there's been a lot of push and pull for him. Yeah. He's saying, I don't want to really get involved with a coworker. But then he's flirting with her and then he's actually having sex with her or whatever they're doing in public places. It's not like he's giving her any sort of strong indication that he's even really that into her, right? Yeah. Yeah. She's going, I think I found the one. And he's kind of like, I've got a partner. Yeah, yeah. She's talking about like the connection, the pull. The only thing he's done that shows that he wants her in the same kind of way is when he gets weird and could ruple text her or something, right? When he wants the sex. Yeah. And as soon as she maybe pulls away a little bit, he's back there in the DMs texting, hey, hey, where are you? Yeah. Yeah. It's a power thing and it's an ego thing and he just loves the attention I fear. Yeah. Because she could also like, if she's if she's, if she's just listening to this going, but he's asking me, you know, do you want me to leave my long term girlfriend? I imagine she'd be arguing. So he wants to leave his long term girlfriend, but I think he's just saying, tell me you want me to leave my girlfriend because I want that sort of like, yes, yes, I want the stroke of the ego. Yeah, exactly. And then, oh my God, that's so true. If that ever went bad with his like girlfriend or whatever, he's like, well, she asked me to and then it puts the girls against each other, which we hate. Right. You know what I mean? Men do that. Like, I swear to God. Also, I just have to touch on that. I think it's such a clever move that she, so she heard about this relationship when the coworker was calling Blake sexy and then in passing, the coworker said like, oh, two baddies in a long termy. And then from that, she jokingly asked if he was married as a gag. I think that that was really clever, but it's also like, how did the conversation go? Do you know what I'm talking about? I would love more of an explanation as to why you think it's a clever please. Oh, here we go. Well, because I'm like, okay, you have the information, right? You know that he is in a relationship and it's like, almost you dial up the extreme to like really put the veil over the information that you do. Like, this is such a crazy joke, such a wild idea that you could ever be married. Oh, right. So you're saying she's presenting the comment like a, oh, low, are you married? Yeah. But it's all in Jess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She said that she jokingly asked if he was married. Gotcha, gotcha. And so I'm assuming that it was like, in passing at work being like, what are you married? Or something like that. Because there's a roommate or something is what he's told her. And I'm just like, okay, you've said that and then from there he has filled her in question. There's, I've got a lot of questions about that conversation that they have. No, I like, I guess, that she did it in Jess because it makes her come across as if she's not that emotionally invested. Yeah. Like, if she were to find out the truth. Yes. Then it's whatever. But then I don't know. I think that if I were in this position, I would be so broken by this. Oh, no, I don't know. I know by this point they hadn't done anything and they were just flirting, right? Well, had they actually done hand and mouth stuff by this point? I do like they had because I think she was wondering why isn't this turning into something more? Like, why can't we properly date? Gotcha. And then she heard that he was in a long-term relationship. Yeah. If I had found that out, after I'd heard from him that he had a quote unquote roommate instead of partner he was living with, I would be way too angry and upset to be like, so, your married, aren't you? I'd be like, the fuck, Blake? I know, but you've got to play it cool. I can't do that. No, I know, but you can. No, but in this instance you would be playing it cool because of the power dynamic, right? Surely. Or it's just like the pressure, it's like, oh, maybe he won't be interested in me. I think he's so, so, well, she didn't call him sexy, but like, she obviously thinks he is. Yeah. Hand and mouth stuff. She thinks that there's, yeah, I think it's just a reflection of the power dynamic that they're in and that it's all on her to play it cool and not care. Yeah. All of this discussion is just pointing to the glaring humiliation ship. I love it. It is so important to create a term like this. I would love to hear from Shushi's who have been in situationships that have actually worked out, like long drawn out situationships that you may have questioned whether this was anything, how long did the situation ship go for and like, how did it actually turn into something properly serious? Because yeah, it's good to distinguish that from a familiar relationship because it seems like there is no as usual. You say in your notes, Ruby, no end inside. So regardless, Shona thinks that potentially Blake is her guy. - Oh, no. - Do you think, I'm just, I'm really struggling with that. That really surprised me in the sacred way. She was just like, "Oh, could he be the one?" That's not what she said, but essentially. - Yeah, to the effect of that. - After hearing that whole sacred and then her being like, "We have a really strong connection. Could this be something more, it's tough." - Yeah. - To consider. - And I know there have been, and I'm sure we'll hear from Shushes who have gone through this 'cause I just did that call out, but most of the time, I really do believe that the start of a really solid, decent, potentially life-long relationship shouldn't be this complicated at the beginning. - And I know there are exceptions. But Shona, look at me. Look at me. - Look at me. - Look at me. - Just be so real right now. - Yeah, let's zoom out. - Do we actually think this is how you believe your life-love can start? - Yeah. - Do you think that you guys could date someone or end up with someone who cheated with you? - It's a rocky foundation to build a relationship on. That's for sure. - I think I'm too insecure. - Same. - I couldn't do it. Imagine if you found out down the track, like you didn't know, that would be so. - Oh, that's for trial. - No, that is for trial. - That is for trial. - That's for trial. - That is for trial. I think it would shake the trust, obviously. And I think I would also be too insecure to just blindly believe it. Are you guys alike, are you lying? - But I'm genuinely-- - I'm not saying that with my eyes. - Okay, okay. But there would be people out there that would be more like, oh my god, he chose me. She chose me, I'm the chosen one. This would never happen again. That kind of delusional sign, no offense. - Or maybe they end up happy together forever. Who knows? But yeah, what would you think? - No, I think all of the above. - Okay. - Because this happens, obviously, there are people out there who are in happy relationships, who may have gotten together because of the cheating in the past. But she happens, and I'm sure it is also kind of, a stroke of the ego to find out that the guy you're with chose you. - Yeah. - It's a big, some people are competitive. - Yeah. - And it feels good to be the chosen one. Shona's trying to break free from this. Even though she thinks that Blake is the one, she is kind of trying to distance herself. - But she's dating. - She's dating. - She's dating. - So she's trying, which is really good. I'm proud of you for doing that. That's hard if you have that strong connection with someone else, she's trying to distract herself. - Just you know, it's well, like a fully nine to five. - 24/7, he's just there, and he's not stopping. He's relentless in his communication. What do we make of all of that? How do you think that one can fully distance yourself from the humiliation chip that you have at work? - Oh, I just wouldn't even know how to do it. - I think the idea of a relationship, this isn't what you asked Annabelle, but thinking on it, like the idea of a relationship based off of someone you've met at work and work with, are we considering the full realm of how intense that is? Like going to work, seeing your partner, God forbid you move in together, like that is really intense. And your identities will like fuse together. I know that some couples do it, and they do it really well, and I admire that. But in this instance, it's all shaky, shaky ground that they've built this on. - Yeah, the people who do it well are the ones who. I'm sure you have their start be a lot cleaner. - Yes, yeah. - They're not healthier, and they can have that channel of communication being free of all this mess. So, shown as friends are hearing about this, which I think is really interesting, because I think other people in this position, and I'm not saying secrecy is the way to go. I think some people in this position might not tell anyone. So props to you, Shona, I guess, for being open with your girls. - With your girls. - With your girls, 'cause you need to talk to the girls at all times. - It seems as if she's exhausted the girls, no? - Yeah, relentless back and forth or something. - And I think this is why I say you should always talk to the girls, your besties, because if you are clocking on to the fact that you've exhausted your girls, I think it probably means that you have to reconsider your actions here and your decisions in this situation. - 100%. - That's your answer right there, babe. But I think that the girls are sick of it. They know, they've told you over and over again, their opinions. And I think that in that case, we should probably start listening to them. - Yeah, the girls want. - I guess that's a good way in here as well. - I would love a call from the girls. - Yeah. - They probably worried about you as well. You know, with this guy at work who's been older than you, like there is that age gap there too, and he's in a long-term relationship. - I know. - But you also work there, they're probably like. - Oh, your girls want what's best for you. - Yeah. - Exactly. - That's why they are communicating to you that they're tired of having to tell you the same thing over and over again. - Yeah. - Which is what they're saying that. - Oh, totally. - It's not because they like, can't be fucked obviously. - Yeah. - No. - Because they're like, oh, well, maybe stop talking to us about this because it's clear you're not listening. - It's that whole thing. - And I'm sure we can all relate to that. - 100%. But that's why we here as an extension of the girls, what do we think, guys? - We think, well, I know that it's like, probably hard for Shona to let go, because she is on one hand going, well, he's in a relationship, so I guess I'll try and distance myself from data to the people. But what's that really gonna do at the end of the day when on the other hand, you do think this guy is the one. Like, it's great you're trying to expand your dating life and try and distract yourself from Blake. But if you're like in love with someone at work and you think he's the one, it's gonna be impossible to let him go. I think you just actually have to, like, yeah, cut it off. - Fully cut it off instead of distancing yourself. You cannot ghost someone who you're dating or seeing when they work with you. I think that's a bit tricky. - Also, what is this relationship looking like outside of work? Like, what do they talk about? Do they just talk about work? - I think a lot of it is mainly physical now. Yeah. So I don't know what the connection is. Like, do you have an emotional connection with this man? - But she's saying she thinks he's like her person, right? - Yeah, yeah, but it sounds like it's very heavy around public sex. - For sex, yeah. - And obviously they're probably getting dinners and coffees, I'm sure as well. - I doubt it. - Yeah, it's a high-pitched. - That was a shame. - I think he's putting a no-ever in work. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - That's shade on him, show, no, not shade on you. - Yeah, so what do you think Shona should do, Charlotte? - I think that Shona should spend her money on a flight and she should go away, take a big leave of absence from work, really get some perspective and touch base one last time with the girls that you think that you have exhausted. And just be like, guys, I'm far away, I've got some perspective, but I do want to run past this theme, that theme and this concept, just one last time and then I'll shut off about it. - Yeah. - I think that she should just get away is what I'm saying in whatever way that that should look like, whether it's like taking a little break and zooming out, which we love to do in this vault doing. Zooming out and then getting like a just a broader look over how she actually feels about this. Also, how do you feel about the job? - Yeah, is this your like passion, your career? - Yeah. - Passion? - Back from your break, I'm loving the runaway for a moment. - Yeah. - Yeah. - In a situation where we love birdsying. - We do. - Right away for hot sec, and if you come back thinking, I can't go to work without talking to him and falling back into a really toxic pattern. - Yeah. - Unfortunately, I do think you might have to consider your place in that workplace. - Totally. - And whether you could find a job like that if you like it somewhere else, 'cause I think you need physical distance from this man. - Yeah. - I don't think it's a matter of talking to Blake and being like, hey, I don't want to do this anymore. You're in a relationship and you're liar and whatever. - Yeah. - 'Cause you're just gonna unfortunately seem the next day and it's gonna be weird and he seems like he's just gonna message you again anyway. - I'm bombard you with his like weird pursuit. - Yeah, 'cause he's weird like that. - He's weird like that. You're gonna have to actually probably not talk to him and not seem every day. - People that kind of hyper fixate on someone at work in this way, it's like, okay, well then do you really like your job very much? If this is something that's like bringing you to work, it's exciting, you're about work. It's like how much of your actual workplace do you enjoy when you just strip him away from it? - Yeah, like let's just focus on the work. - Let's focus on the work. - Yeah, let's focus on you. Like what do you want here? It's all about him, not a fence, but he's gonna be fine. - Yeah, don't worry about him. - No, I'm sure you're not, but let's not like he'll be alright. - Yeah, he'll be fine. - Let's just focus on those KPIs. - Period, period. - And those quarters. - Yeah. - And then yeah, us as creators. - Yeah. - In our budget. - In our budget. - Yep. - Excel spreadsheets. Alright, I'm about to read you another submission that landed in the inbox. - Oh, tea. - And it might change your mind, potentially about showing a situation. It might not though. I'm really interested to see what you have to say. - Okay. - Right after a word from today's sponsor. - It's gonna be a cheating success story. Anyway, sponsor, hey. - Oh my God. (upbeat music) - Sure she's a girls night out, has just got a whole lot more flavorful, all thanks to brown brothers. Their fruity range is redefining what it means to enjoy one today. It's bold and absolutely bursting with flavor, whether you're pouring the fruit sparkle of miscardo, the juicy sienna, the tropical miscardo, lush lychee, or mixing it up with a passion fruit spritz. There's a wine for everyone. This range is for those who are fun, social, confident, and unapologetically themselves. Brown brothers is anything but dry. Sip loudly, live shamelessly, try brown brothers fruity range today. Thank you so much to brown brothers for making this episode of Everybody Has A Secret Possible. (upbeat music) All right, this comes from Alice. Someone we're gonna call Alice. - Alice, Alice. - My secret is proof that messy affairs can turn into something amazing. - Yeah. - See, this is what I, yep. - Years ago my new boss and I hit it off, let's call him Derek. So boss, boss in this situation. He was in an open relationship at the time, and the chemistry between us developed slowly until we went overseas on a work trip. We hooked up and it ignited a passionate affair between us. Derek was new to being in this open relationship, and he told me they were trying to fix their relationship. That's why they opened it up. I have no idea whether his partner knew about me. Firstly took a break, later they broke up for good. And look, I'm not proud of the fact that my existence was probably the final nail in the coffin, but I told you this was a messy situation. At some point Derek ended up with me too. He was confused and needed time to heal. What followed was the most heartbreaking year of my life, a secret on and off relationship with my boss, who I saw every single day at work. When it was good, it was really good, but when it was bad, it was unbearable. At the same time we couldn't keep our hands off each other, both of us felt that this was the best sex of our lives, paired with the friendship we had developed prior. We had genuine feelings for each other. We've since made it official. Derek healed his wounds and figured we were supposed to be together, but the only people who know about us are our closest friends. Why have we kept this a secret? You might be wondering. Isn't love more important than work? Yes, of course it is. But after all the drama, we needed time to build a solid foundation and enjoy the tranquility of being just us before sharing it with the world. We also love working together and didn't want anything to change or have our coworkers treat me differently. He is the love of my life, he is the person I trust most, and I've known for a while that I care more about being his partner than this job. So we've both decided to resign. I can't wait to go public with our relationship. This secret may be too cheesy, but life is complicated and I believe some objectively bad decisions can lead to something beautiful, even if this might be the exception to the rule, Alice. Wow. So to clarify. Yes, Alice and this man, Derek. This man. Sorry to this man. Alice and Derek are together and Derek is no longer like they're not open or anything, even though he wasn't an open relationship before. Yeah, he was in a relationship. It opened up. I'm assuming he met Alice. Well, at work, they started talking up. The open relationship stuff was messy. Don't know if his ex partner knew about Alice and then obviously he's left that relationship completely to be with her. Okay. Gotcha. I wonder why I'm lying to you. It makes you in the belly. I want to be really happy for Alice. It seems like she's happy. She wants to quit her job and put love first and have her and Derek live happily ever after. Yeah. Well, that's kind of what's happened. She quit her job. Yeah, she quit her job. And it's all very like, yay, let's put love first. Yeah. But I was feeling very twisty and turnie throughout that. I think firstly Derek is confusing me here. Yes, I'm on him. Because he's healing throughout this whole year of him and Alice sleeping together. Yeah. And then like he's in a relationship, he's trying to fix his relationship, he's sleeping with Alice and that maybe is fine for his relationships open rules. But yeah, what are the rules that we, yeah, that's so true. What are the rules? Because I don't know whether this is cheating or whether it was like all fine in Derek's last relationship for him to form an emotional and physical connection with Alice. Because she's saying she had feelings. Can we, Ruby, can I just request a name for the ex? Stephanie. Yeah, we'll call her Stephanie. Okay. I can Stephanie, what were their open relationship rules when they were like, okay, let's open up the relationship in pursuit of like trying to save it. What are their rules? That's such a good point. Because some open relationships, obviously if that's what they decide, they're allowed to like just sleep with other people. Yeah. Maybe not even for a second time. Yeah. Maybe no emotions. And then there's like, caviar, it's just like, but you just have to ask me first. Yeah. Like there's lots of different versions of it. There are some open dynamics where you can develop an emotional bond with someone else. I'm not sure what Stephanie and Derek had going on for them. Yeah. Regardless, I am a bit like Ibra raised at the fact that Alice isn't sure. Yeah. That signals to me that he was doing something during that year of Alice and Derek, sleeping together that he wasn't supposed to be doing. Also not on home soil, like on a work trip. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then Derek, as I was saying, has been healing. He also broke it off with Alice for a bit because of his healing. And I'm like, yeah, go off king. Into that. I like healing. Yeah. Don't get me wrong. Healing is great. Don't get me wrong. Healing is great. And I'm all for him healing. But he's just kind of like, he's flopping at the expense of other people's feelings. Yeah. And I love healing, but like, let's just like not get the expense of other people's feelings. Yeah. Let's no no hundred percent. It's so hard because it's like healing journeys are so independent. They do require you to go inward and search internally. Well, that's quite, you know, that is the selfish road. And sometimes in this case, it's like, okay, he's a bit tunnel vision. Yeah. So I get what you're saying. Let's just be aware. It's great to be healing and great to be on your journey. But like, let's not be fucking anyone over. And let's also be aware of the fact that Alice is saying she's happy. And she's hoping this will be forever. And I'm like, great. Me too. But I don't want to lie to you, Alice, that my tummy was a bit weird throughout that. Yeah. It was grumbling. What was yours doing during that secret readout shoot? I just have whiplash from the last secret. I'm honest, because we went pretty hard on the power dynamic. And this is arguably worse. This is like, oh, this is my boss. And I've just so got, oh God, I don't know. Honestly, guys, the boss thing is not good. No, but I'm just like, oh, I think I'm at this just happens talk. Like I'm on that side of TikTok in this conversation. As just cheating. As just cheating. Sheamus podcast did an episode recently last week about cheating and kind of like unpacking this idea of cheating because it is so common. And it does often result in like happy endings and beautiful relationships. And Zara and Ilish spoke about this idea of like sometimes objectively bad decisions like cheating can lead to something beautiful, like what Alice is saying here in a happy relationship. So I'm trying to check myself here to be like, why do I feel negatively? I feel weird about this one, but she's saying she's happy. So I guess we should believe her, even though there are power dynamics and weirdness a bit during that year. And secrecy. 100%. I think, okay, let's just call it what it is. On paper, everything reads like it's easy to point out the themes and where we should be highlighting this and highlighting that and making sure we're talking about this. But it's like everyone's story is different. And if Alice is happy without this is gone, then hallelujah. Good for you, Alice. Like who might have tell you that like what you should or shouldn't be doing. Yeah, she says this secret may be too cheesy, but life is complicated and I believe some objectively bad decisions can lead to something beautiful, even if this might be the exception to the role. It's not like, so what should I do? She's not asking. No, if anything, she's just telling us something that worked for her. Yeah. And if show nurse sacred was like, and we are XYZ and thank you so much for listening, I'd be like, what period thanks for telling us, you know? Yeah. It depends on the intention behind the sacred. I think I feel a bit weird weighing on this one anyway, because she sounds resolved and she sounds happy. And I'm like, who am I to tell you that you should it be? So true. I've fallen into the trap of dissecting this one. Oh, yes, well, as we should on this part. No, no, no, no, no, but you're right. She's not asking us for our advice. She is saying, this is, hey, you know, sometimes bad decisions lead to good things and I'm an example of that. It does need dissecting though, because it is a peculiar story. But I think it's like too peculiar to summarize in like a few paragraphs of text, like what we've done here, you know? Yeah. I think if she's saying it's good, there must be other stuff in between that we're not getting on paper that makes her feel so good. And so in conclusion, I'm also feeling good about this. Yeah. Well, like it was, I think that's the dissonance. So I think that's why like when we were reading it, we were like, oh, where is this going? Also, like trust issues from the vault you guys have touched on before. We've gotten some crazy secrets in here. I was not expecting it to end with, and so we resigned and we, you know, set off into the sunset. And it is a bit of whiplash hearing that after a show in a situation. Yes. Does it make us reconsider our advice that we gave to Shona? Because Shona asked us for our advice and we said, quit your job and never speak to what he's facing again. It doesn't make me change my mind. Is that double standard vibes? How do you feel about it? I just genuinely, I'm just like, I'm trying to interrogate it, but it doesn't make me change my mind. Yeah. Well, because I guess there are obviously differences in their situations. Yeah. Between Derek and. I know, I know. My mind draws a blank. What's his name? Blake. Blakey Blake. Mainly between Derek and Blake. It's like, okay, Blake's intentions were like manipulative and very secret and just not giving good energy. Whereas Derek is like, I'm going to work on myself blah, blah, blah from this secret. And I may or may not have been in an open relationship that allowed me to sleep with you, but like. Yeah. Question mark. But Derek, a boss. Like, potentially like a mental figure. I'm going to say managerial mental figure. It's all just a bit like, I don't know, it's murky and they're both acknowledging the fact that their situation's a murky. And so I guess that that's that. Yeah. And they're both acknowledging it. Alice is saying, I've acknowledged it, but I'm in a good place. Shona is saying, I've acknowledged it and I also think it's a bit weird. What should I do? Yeah. We're being honest with Shona. I think that my advice to Shona still stands because Blake is probably in what we can only assume is a committed monogamous relationship long term with someone else. And the situation is different with Derek. And Shona, think within yourself, look within yourself again. Look in, get that monochool. For real. We have them if you'd like to buy a magnifying glass. The magnifying glass. And just go, hey, do we feel a bit uneasy about this? Yeah. You know, like, is your tummy a bit weird? or have you had a couple of coffees, I just think that Alice was like, okay, I'll give the names a really confusing so she's, I understand, I'm also, whoa. But Alice was going, okay, Derek wants space to heal. And it was like hard for her, I guess, but they came together and it was all good in the end. Whereas Shona is feeling weird. She's trying to test out the water with other people. She's trying to protect herself because she fears, I think, that it's gonna end badly. And like, taking it for a ride. And still feels like he probably could be her person. Whereas Alice is resolved. It's resolved. And whilst there is a small chance that eventually Shona, your situation could be resolved, if you keep hanging out with Blake and I don't know, he dumps his girlfriend and you guys end up together and both quit your jobs and it's the same trajectory as Alice and Derek. Yeah. I just don't think it's worth the risk, I agree. Because being the exception, I think he's like a tiny percentage. And Alice and Derek have happened to fall in that percentage. Yeah, I completely agree Annabelle. I think comparing and contrasting secrets is a fun little exercise. Yeah, I thought it would be. It's tricky, tricky. The destructible work. But I think we did well. You guys did so well. Thanks for hanging in the vault with me today, you guys. Of course, I want a pleasure, what an honor and a privilege. And thank you, Shushy, for listening to this episode of Everybody Has a Secret. A has is produced by Ruby Hall and Lucy Hunt. And if you have a secret to share with us, submit it at everybodyhasacecret.com.au. Everything will be kept anonymous. You know what else is kept anonymous? What? The identity, whoa. Yeah, I'm ready for it. Oh, the identity and the details of my confessional guests. Wah-wah-wah-wah-wah-wah. So if you have a confession that you want to talk to me about in studio, DMS. On Instagram, we are at ehaspodcast. We're on the same handle on TikTok as well. But yes, tell me your confession is coming in studio with me. I want to chat in person. I want to meet you. Oh my god, so fun. Thanks, guys. We'll see you next Friday. Bye, bye. Bye, guys. [MUSIC PLAYING] This podcast was recorded on Verundery Land. Always was. Always will be Aboriginal Land.