We Go Deep with the Unlikeliest of Performance-Enhancing Drugs: Smooth Jazz

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out I am Pablo Torre and today we're going to find out what this sound is It's like crack cocaine is although I don't two drugs It's it's it it brings me to my happy place right after this I just need to establish for our audience Mickey that you represent a challenge to the advertising of this program which has been billed as a sports show and yet when you show up non sports things happen That's very true. Yes One title of an episode you did with us is quote I was a goth jock and nobody could stop me But your tennis career. Mm-hmm. That was the most sports I think That you've done very sporty. Yeah, then the last time you were here you did a show that I think pre-saged A phenomenon that has swept the country since we were ahead of that we were a bird watching in central park Specifically with a man named birding Jesus who still texts me. It's a great guy I still want to go to Panama with birding Jesus. It's gonna happen and the Atlantic has published an article This is just last week by the way the headline is quote all the cool kids are birding and yet I think some would say this show that claims to be about sports and what things may or may not be cool Is neither of those things At least when you are here. It's a very specific niche I feel like we maybe also just need to establish that the bird watching episode titled bird watching will blow your mind Was also I think probably the the horniest of all the episodes we've done in in now 400 plus episodes over almost three years Very proud of that um and we might we might top it today though so today The story you're bringing us the thing you want to take us into the world of it begins where So I come to you today Pablo extremely relaxed and stimulated having spent a lot of time with yet another intense subculture This one has maybe the most obsessive fans that I've seen in in any of these and as always I bring you back an incredible discovery So you are an award-winning documentarian and illustrator and I'm going to warn everybody that we're about to show things on our youtube channel here as well as on video and apple podcasts Did I haven't seen yet? Where were we going? So picture of this Pablo it all started in 2014 I was at an out of town wedding in redding, Pennsylvania and Unbeknownst to all of us guests the wedding ended up having a dry Reception which means just ginger ale and like soda yeah like iced tea and Shirley temples and stuff is Yeah, great great time, but uh not like we're like alcoholics or anything But a group of us after the wedding we were really looking for a place where we could have like a stiff drink and uh so can I can I point out that This is kind of how you're bird watching episode started You're in a room full of weirdos. Yeah. Well, you know, this is just the the way that I live This is your rewarding process So my friends and I we stumble into what ends up being the crown plaza hotel in redding, Pennsylvania Which just so happens that weekend to be hosting something called the birx jazz fest As soon as we open the doors Pablo We just see an endless sea of elderly people A full-on Geriatric underground music scene I'm imagining Zion from the matrix But also the exact opposite the exact opposite What's the energy level here give us these sort of atmospherics Everyone is like Grooving they are like dressed to the nines We're talking feathers. We're talking sequins. We're talking high heels This astonishing scene that I can't quite process So we sit down next to these very friendly Very intense people at a bar And I should point out Pablo that Despite what it all sounds like now, this is actually going to be a sports story with This Very specific kind of music that was billowing out of every single one of these conference rooms at the The crown plaza hotel And that music was Smooth jazz You're trying to sell our audience on Kenny G Being sports the kind of music that you hear when they're trying to anesthetize you During wisdom teeth removal That's the one yeah The only data point that I really have for the intersection of sports and smooth jazz Is the center of fielder from my childhood Bernie Williams hell yeah In response to Bernie Williams being the smooth jazz guitarist that you seem to be channeling When you're claiming that this is all very very Cool energetic. I mean Bernie is a real one in the smooth jazz world He has played with the New York Philharmonic This guy has closed down shows at Carnegie Hall He's got cred in this world. It is dissident the idea that guy who plays in a stadium That is brought to life by intersan man by Metallica When Mario Rivera would come out of the bullpen Is also Doing this I see how you feel that way but this Leads me perfectly to the incredible discovery that I'm here to share with you. Which is that In this ever connected Optimized metric obsessed world of sports Smooth jazz Might actually be hiding in plain sight as one of the greatest performance enhancing drugs ever Based on what I can accurately say is extensive international reporting on this I don't know if you spent reporting this episode for us years years Since I could argue since even before the show was a show But I can accurately say that from the reporting there are even more athletes Like your beloved Bernie Williams who really enjoy kind of this softer music But they just might be too embarrassed to say it publicly You're saying there are closeted smooth jazz fans throughout sports Yeah, there are but I promise you this on the show today we will out at least one Raining world champion athlete as a smooth jazz lover What I want to do is get out of this segment So So just to recap what you're attempting to do here You're trying to prove that smooth jazz the least pump up sounding music one can imagine is Secretly a performance enhancing drug that actually makes athletes better So as much as we fans like to think that our favorite athletes are listening to Just like this super hardcore music all the time playing out loud in the locker rooms or in their headphones before and after games It turns out that the most hardcore of hardcore players of all time Michael Jordan Seconds after Jordan hit the shot This is the 89 playoffs. It's the calves. It's three seconds left The bulls win one of most dramatic games ever that's the one Jordan literally says in his post-game interview that his pre-game pump-up song was this That's giving you the best that I got by Anita Baker when Jordan is fist pumping so good. He's Hearing that in his brain. So you should know that Anita Baker is not technically smooth jazz That song we just heard is too hardcore for smooth jazz. Well to define smooth jazz is a little bit difficult But just painting with a broad brush a nice soft watercolor brush Smooth jazz is largely an instrumental genre and it's like kind of a vibe actually A radio DJ that I spoke to told me that he privately refers to smooth jazz as quote-unquote "stimulax" It feels like a farm is gonna go drug that makes you poop Well, stimulus is the perfect mix of stimulating and relaxing Which just so happens to be the ideal formula to have you enter a flow state It was actually a radio format. This was in the late 80s. It was designed to be almost like an uplifting mood service. Why do I feel like I'm entering some sort of like spiritual, ritual now with you? It's because you are. So these stations, it was a mix of contemporary jazz, it was world music, it was like spa music with pan-flutes, and it was all designed to be this sort of uplifting, joyful soundtrack to people's lives. People who might have been stressed out in the 80s, which I imagine is very cocaine-y. It's like this was the deprivation tank that they got to hang out with. This was the counterpoint. So the iconic station that started this was called The Wave. It was an LA-based station, and the wave just played banger after banger after banger. 94.7 KTWV The Wave, where the music matters. I think this is where I got to point out that banger feels like a substantive misrepresentation of whatever verb is happening when you play smooth jazz. What's the opposite of banging? Smoothing, I don't know. So The Wave was really a phenomenon, Pablo, and Southern California really could not get enough of this music, especially playing it at work in the background, at the office. Wait, this was the ambient noise of corporate America? Totally. It lifted the mood. It made everything feel sophisticated and classy and arty and world-like. So I am at my desk in the 1980s, typing away on my clickety-clack keyboard. I mean, wouldn't you rather be working to music like this? Oh, crank it up. Come on, you tell me that's not a banger? It feels like I'm on hold. You know you'd rather be listening to this than whatever podcast you're listening to. Yeah, interviewing some billionaires. Come on. It's like this is not pumping me up. This is deep pumping. Deep, deep, deep, deep-lating? I mean, dare I say, it's the opposite of the effect that you're arguing. One man's pump-up is another's deflate, I guess. But back in those days, people could not get enough of this and very quickly, in markets large and small, radio stations started to copy this format. And it wasn't just like some suburban, white, yuppie thing either. It got to the point where if you were driving across the country, coast to coast, there would not be a single moment where on the radio dial you could not find music from artists like Grover Washington, Jr. Talking cities and suburbs, white and black, smooth jazz was born. So what I'm not going to argue with is the data, because the market is speaking. And more and more stations seem to be agreeing with you. So if you want some analytics on this, just to give you a baseline. In the '90s, Kenny G's huge album Breathless, it actually outsold Nirvana's Never Mind Album. You're saying that Kirk Cobain was "Outrated" by. This right here? Come on, tell me you're not pumped up right now. I just like how this is just Kenny G cross fading into other versions of Kenny G in which he's somehow losing more clothes. What a legend. He's on a beach, he's sleeveless. What instrument is that? That is a soprano sax, of course. One shot he's wearing suspenders and like a villa, like an ancient ruin, maybe of some kind, wearing high tops, sneakers. But I should say Pablo that Kenny G himself actually shied away from the smooth jazz label. How could the guy who seems like the face of smooth jazz reject that? So the jazz world really resented that Kenny G, in the ways that we were just talking about with Nirvana, was outselling, even like the greatest jazz artist of all time. And this point's at another phenomenon, something that the other guy in this photo actually, a guy named Dave Caz. My name is Dave Caz, I am a professional musician and I play the saxophone. It's what this guy Caz calls the jazz police. The word smooth, not the word jazz, interestingly enough, but the word smooth kind of became a dirty word along the way. And there was such a bias in the jazz community who looked at smooth jazz artists as kind of lesser than. So it was like a identity crisis for a lot of smooth jazz artists. And even the fans who became like, because it was such a powerful voice of this jazz police saying, if you're listening to smooth jazz radio, first of all, the artist suck. Your music tastes suck, you know, and you suck. It was so heavy handed that a lot of us guys and gals that became associated with this radio format, we kind of carried this burden. I tried to distance myself like we all did from the term smooth jazz for a number of years. So a couple of observations here. One is the jazz police that sounds to me like a smooth jazz cover band of the police. And the second thing is, dude, zoom background appears to be an enormous house. What's his deal? Do you hear this music underneath us, Pablo? This is why they call Caz the Sultan of smooth. People told me that listening to a Dave Caz saxophone solo makes them feel like they're taking drugs. This guy was a saxophone player in Arsenio Hall's band. He became like the industry's anointed successor to Cany G. Capital records held this meeting where they decided that for marketing purposes, they're going to change his name from David Caz to Dave Caz and then quote unquote Dave Caz becomes this crazy sax symbol. It's hard for me to not point out that by dropping the ID, by dropping the id, he unleashed the id. One newspaper called it "Sax Appeal" and the Kathy Lee Gifford simply called Caz a very hot guy. Dave Caz, great, great jazz performer, a very hot guy. There were music videos with these women faunting after him and Caz is just standing among ancient ruins, just squealing gloriously a saxophone solo while he seductively looks on. I just like how at any given moment you could pause one of these music videos and it's going to be a cross dissolve. So at his peak in the 90s, I topped those ruins, really peaking there. He went platinum as an artist, he was selling like a half million records for each album. He even wrote the theme song to General Hospital. This guy, he did cameos on Melrose Place, he was on Family Matters, and someone who watched a lot of Steve Urkel. I remember that Urkel loved smooth jazz, which feels like a great counterpoint to the case you've been making until this moment. Okay, but there's also sports. Dave Caz also played four teams like The Lakers, Four The Cowboys, Four The Dodgers. He plays this incredible national anthem and he has actually performed with athletes like your beloved Bernie Williams. What we're hearing now is the Caz feature on the track, Reatmo de Otonio, from Bernie Williams's album, Moving Forward. So just to do by elementary Spanish translation, Reatmo de Otonio is rhythm of autumn. And what a great fitting soundtrack to all of their successes. Caz also played with, do you remember the late great Waymond Tizdale? One of the great college basketball players of all time, 6'9", 260, played for the Pacers and some other teams, the Kings and the Sons. Yeah, one of the great power forwards and the gold medalist. And power forward happens to be the name of his debut album as a smooth jazz bassist. I mean, look at these guys. - Pablo. - That's Dave and Wayman. The cause and, wow. - The much larger. - The significantly larger Wayman to his now. - Collaborator. So, cause told me, - Whatever it is that like animates a professional athlete that that focus preparing for the flow state, whatever you need to do. And believe me, I'm Mickey. I am so far from being an athlete. I barely can swing a tennis racket, but I recognize something very distinct with those two experiences with professional athletes that they approach music in a different way than a regular musician. - He said that these athletes as musicians, smooth jazz musicians, were different. Dave cause says that he absolutely believes that smooth jazz can be a performance enhancing drug. I absolutely do think that smooth jazz can be a performing enhancing drug used by athletes, doctors. Actually I've heard a bunch of stories, Mickey, about how my music actually has been used in operating rooms all over America by surgeons. - This is where I have to admit that you've made a persuasive case that sports and smooth jazz actually have a history. And that smooth jazz as a market commodity was quite valuable. But when you make the case for performance enhancement, what happened to the performance of smooth jazz since then? - So things have been a little bit rough in the smooth jazz world, specifically because of something that happened in 2008 when everything changed. - The great financial crisis. - So there was that, but the wave that we talked about earlier, the wave crashed Pablo. Because, and I brought a prop today, in 2008, the radio ratings company Arbitron rolled out this futuristic new device called the portable people meter. - That looks like a beaver. - Totally. - It is a belt clip. - Absolutely, it was designed to be worn on people's belts. And it was brought in to replace what were these like kind of archaic ratings books that people would have to write down long-hand what radio stations they were listening to throughout the day. - This reminds me that Nielsen, the Nielsen rating system for TV, they used to have people input by hand what they were watching. - So the way that this thing worked is that radio broadcasters would actually embed an inaudible signal within every single one of the radio stations. People meters have a tiny little microphone inside of them that would pick up the signal from the different radio stations and log how much rap music or heavy metal, classic rock, talk radio. - This is like how we think our cell phones are listening to us now. This was actually a device that was designed to openly do that very thing. - It was listening to everything Pablo, but these devices had a significant flaw. They really struggled to pick up the signals from stations that were played at a low volume. (laughing) Which disproportionately affected the music that we're talking about today. - So the bias was music that was made to be blasted out of a speaker was accurately counted but the music that was played almost definitionally as background music that suffered. - Exactly, so in every market where the people meter was integrated, ratings for smooth jazz just absolutely took a nose dive. - We're looking at a March 2008 headline. It reads smooth jazz sinks in rough airwaves. It's pretty hard to recover when you're that underwater. - So it looks that way, but let's go back to this wonderful hotel event that I was telling you about earlier when I'm at a bar drinking with all of these smooth jazz fans or smoothies as I like to call them. It was that night that the smooth jazz fans described to me that in the wake of the collapse of smooth jazz radio that the scene kind of evolved and rebranded as this in-person subculture at small festivals like the Berks Jazz Fest at Wine Taste Things and at an even more spectacular venue that was pioneered by the Sultan of Smooth himself, Dave Cosm. - My first cruise was in 2005 and in 2011, we started doing it ourselves, producing ourselves. And every year we decided to push the envelope and try new places. The average amount of guests that come on the ship is around somewhere between 2,000 and 2,500 per cruise. For the next cruise in Japan, I think our waiting list is up to like 10,000 people. - It kind of reminds me of like summer camp for, I don't want to say senior citizens, but I might have to. It's really diverse. You've got all different races and religions and different ages. You've got gays, straights and everything in between. And for one week, all the lines that separate everybody in our worlds, they just get erased. And that, to me, is the true power of music. - What I'm finding out here is that there are thousands upon thousands of people that board a cruise ship in which the music that they celebrate is music that once again is typically played so softly that electronic devices cannot hear it. - This is all true. And from here Pablo, it's really time to step aboard. Things are about to get very horny. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - I'm PTFO correspondent Mickey Dugey and I come to you from Rio de Janeiro where I'm aboard the Dave Cos smooth jazz cruise. This week, thousands of sequined clad smoothies are packing themselves onto this ship to indulge guilt-free in a massive dose of something that most people think is horrible. What we're here to find out is whether smooth jazz commonly seen as the most corny and loads of musical genre and history is actually hiding in plain sight as the key to unlocking peak performance. Let's invest the game. - I just need to point out that you were lying horizontally on a deck chair before getting up and beginning to traverse the deck of an actual cruise ship docked off of the coast of Brazil. - All true. - As you were wearing a nautical fume shirt. - That's my cruising shirt Pablo. - And your journalism, your embedded on the open seas reporting brought you to where. So my first stop was to stop in at the Lido deck where a large group of smoothies had already congregated and seemed to be really feeling the effects of stimuli. I mean, we had smoothies dancing on top of Jacuzzi's. We had champagne flowing. Everyone was just shaking their money makers in the full Brazilian summer sun. - This is, yes, a rainbow coalition of older people and saxophones and everyone is loving it. But in terms of the performance enhancement thesis you brought to us today, this is not quite what I'm looking for. - I have to agree with you. At first glance, unfortunately, peak performance was not immediately apparent. Not on the ping pong tables, not in cornhole and definitely not in the pools. - I'm glad that we are continuing to do sports journalism. - So for me to learn the true secrets of smooth, I had to dip my toe further into the water. - What I want to know is how do these people, many of them older people have so much stamina this week? - So the stamina comes from your passion. You must know what your passions are. I personally say I know what my crazy is. So my crazy is music. - And when I say you are interviewing a woman who is literally now inside the tracusy. - And she's just getting started. How many shows back to back to back to back? Do you think that you could, you know, take in on a cruise this intense? - So when I get the schedule and of course you have to pace yourself, but there is 24 hours in a day and the day starts about 10 and it's about two. So 10 a.m. to two a.m. and then you can sleep from three to eight. - Those are just through the math here. That's 16 hours a day of smoothing for a week straight. - That's right Pablo. And these people made me as a middle-aged guy think about performance and enhancement in a totally different way. - I have kids in their 30s and 40s. I'm not quite sure that they can hang if they can. to the ship. As you know, we go from morning to night and we probably will put some of them in the shape. It's like crack cocaine is although I don't two drugs. It's it's it it brings me to my happy place. You're incredibly stoned right now on smooth jazz. Absolutely. I am in my natural high. I mean I what I thought would be a downer is instead proving to be an upper in ways that are scientifically disturbing. So you got to understand Paul though these two thousand smooth jazz fans on this ship are co-mingling with their favorite artists in very very close quarters. And again, it's it's black white, gay, straight, Democrat, Republican, everybody's mixed in. Yes, the bipartisanship of this horniness is becoming also apparent. So speaking of that, I don't want to get too explicit on your show here, but there was a moment where one night as I was walking along the ship an elderly woman grabbed my wrist and flirtatiously asked me if I would guess her age and then you know gazing at me with the most seductive look she said to me, I'm 80 and I was like and I'm scared. Feels like you you're getting journalistically compromised Mickey by your reporting here. So I actually felt the opposite. I was in these concerts I was searching for my own high and people are wearing these incredible outfits that have flowy fabrics and flashing lights and I'm there in my you know stupid cruising shirt. Your button down. Yeah, so rather than feeling like I needed to stay on the sidelines, what I decided to do was totally double down. So I walked over to this onboard store which is called Glitz and inside Glitz I bought myself a new smooth jazz shirt. I mean it is a button down but it is split down the middle by the buttons. The right side on the screen is white and has musical notes and it's coming out of a saxophone that seems to be blowing smoke out of itself and on the left side is more giant notes and vertical now shooting vertically like you are smooth jazz to face. You are smooth jazz Harvey Dent. I should say I was extremely excited for my new uniform to wear on the cruise and this was made of what fabric. This was a silk. Why did I even ask? Yeah, they don't they don't sell anything on the silk on that boat and immediately just from the reactions of the people who as I'm walking out of the store, this shirt was just a gateway into the unknown. And so as you are now festooned in silk, where do you go? So I'm feeling great with this new second skin. I happen to stumble upon an unbored ping-pong tournament that was happening on the Lito deck. This cruise ship has everything. It really does and I decided to put my newfound stimuli to the test. The moment that I stepped to the table Pablo, a wave of calm really came over me. I mean it's a wave of calm over the guy who is a sleep right behind you watching this. Okay he might he might have had more calm than me. The ball just danced from my paddle like a bubble in the breeze. You're biting your lip with a confidence that I got to say betrays your goth tennis background. This is actually the polar opposite of my goth tennis days but I'm out there and some cracking balls all over the table. Celebrating. Like a smooth jazz saxophone solo Pablo. Is that the guy you beat? Yeah he had to go down Pablo. I was really feeling it. It was like popping your jersey. I don't remember any of this. I feel like I was like unconscious but what I do remember is that after I won the tournament people were coming up to me to take selfies. I had this like totally new stature on the ship. You're grinning so wide that it almost makes me ignore the woman to the bottom right of this frame. She's loving it too. Oh my god. I ended up going to a bar where the bartender just for no reason gave me a double pour of baleys on the house. A literal flow state at this point. Everything I did just felt effortlessly cool and you know heads were turning my way. I had never felt so smooth in my entire life. So Pablo everywhere I was going on the ship. I was suddenly getting love and I was wondering was this all because of this like stupid silk saxophone shirt that I was wearing or did the shirt actually unlock something that was deep inside of me that had been laying dormant. I really needed to go deeper to find the answer. We've arrived today five of this here smooth jazz cruise and I've never felt more comfortable in my own skin. Tonight's theme is Brazilian carnival even though it's early in the day. All of my new old friends are already clad in sequence and feathers ready to dance the night away. Let's check in on the dance floor and see how they're doing. Feels like you robbed an old person and are now wearing a blue feather boa a blue Jim Dolan-esque pork pie cat and and somehow there's enough fabric left over from the at to make an entire shirt. It's also sparkling in the sun. It was it was a set Pablo apparently glitz had a back room that I hadn't initially noticed for the for the serious smoothies and yeah I went went even harder with the the outfits and I have to say that as someone who doesn't typically dress up tapping into my inner smoothie was was really liberating but even as I was reaching you know the the pinnacle of the smooth world I just felt myself wanting more so as night fell on the ship during this carnival celebration I found myself like wanting to be up front like running down the aisle into the front rows of these shows the music is just washing over me and I finally felt like I was accepted into this world and was communing with everyone's fountain of youth in this way that made me feel whole you're doing the john ham meme from friends and neighbors does the camera right downbarrel to your face eyes closed as you're like gyrating a wash in some sort of like moonlight I mean again I I don't remember any of this that tracks I was really living the dream so earlier in the week a new friend of mine told me that smooth is actually a feeling and that if you let the feeling overtake you on the inside it'll radiate to the outside that is a hell of a pickup line I really felt that though I really felt that so for one magical week Pablo I really forgot all of my troubles and can honestly say I was peaking as you're walking down the moonlit Lido deck with your arms raised like Jud Nelson in the breakfast club I have to wonder now is your wife aware that you were peaking on this cruise what happens are the cruise ships stays on the cruise ship Pablo until today so this is where now that we're back on land I do feel obligated to disclose that I did not consent to mere sponsored contents for Dave causes smooth jazz cruise which clearly you found to be a very transformative experience so I don't feel like a cause or the cruise or the smooth world needs anymore than they already have but you should know that my embedding in this world my experience with this world over six years in 15 countries and interviewing dozens of people was not just for this episode I really saw something substantive and beautiful in this world and all of this for footage and all of these people that I've met served the larger purpose of me making a feature-length documentary about smooth jazz, which is called Smooth World. And what the film is really about is that despite, you know, the ridiculous optics of it or its history that has been lampooned, that actually peak performances when you stop trying to be so cool all the time and you give in to community, enjoy, and being silly, and being in person with other people. These are the analog virtues of a world like that. And I feel like the world's not just older people, but people, our generation and younger. In the world that like is becoming rougher and rougher could be well served by something that's actually much smoother. As I can silt my notes here, I love that your film will be premiering at the Newport Beach Film Festival in October, where the vibes promise to be exactly as you describe them. But what about us? Okay, so I did promise in true PTFO fashion to out. To break news. To break news and out a reigning world champion of a major American sport as a true lover of smooth jazz. So Dave Caz, a legend of this musical genre, he told me about, you know, a whole legion of closeters that are not willing to admit it in public. But in private, they got it going on. From his own best friends to the Obamas. It's all of a tease to a guy whom you also might recall from his playing days with the Boston Red Sox and is now the manager of the reigning world champion, LA Dodgers. Oh no, even though I don't play sports, I grew up around sports. My dad was a psycho Dodgers fan and had season tickets the whole thing. So we went to a lot of Dodger games. So the Dodgers are very much a part of my heart, you know, growing up in LA. And so it was an event that Dave Roberts was at that I was playing at and I met him backstage. And he was like, he totally, I hope he's not watching this, but I just want to say that he kind of fanboyed out on me. And of course, when the Dodgers won the pennant, you know, it's like the congratulatory messages and immediately I remember texting Dave right after the Dodgers win the World Series. And I was I was thinking this guy's got to be getting hundreds or maybe thousands of congratulatory messages. But I'm just going to be one of those guys because I want him to know that I was watching and I was so excited for the team, you know, go Dodgers. And I texted him literally within three minutes, there was a text saying, thank you so much Dave. We're so excited. We appreciate your support. I'm like, why are you texting me? Like, what the hell is going on here? I know that you guys have standards around here, Pablo, you can't just make claims about a four time world series champion in the same episode that I'm like grinding up an old lady. Yeah, we need to request comments typically for such allegations. So the other day at Dodger Stadium, we had one of your colleagues at the athletic. Fabian, Ardaya, fact check this. And the confront Dave Roberts about my theory that keeping it smooth is actually a performance enhancing drug. So I think that it just puts my mind in a peaceful place when I listen to jazz music. And it's certainly the contrast from clubhouse music. You don't want to get rap, hardcore rap, you get that bad bunny, you get some country in there. You don't have as much rock, rock and roll or heavy metal, thank goodness. But it's a lot of rap, a lot of Latin stuff. But I do think that, you know, for me, it's like I can listen to jazz, just to kind of keep me grounded. I just need to stress how utterly serious he was in answering this question of your theory. And with that seriousness, what is now sinking in to my life and my brain is the idea that whenever I think now about Dave Roberts, that same guy stealing second base on a guy who loves to come out of the bullpen to Metallica. What I'm really hearing underneath is not heavy metal. It's not the drop kick Murphy's even. It's the sultan of smooth haunting me as the red socks come back from down 3-0 to beat the Yankees in the 2004 ALCS. Yeah. So I'm sensing your anxiety here, Pablo, and this is a remarkable practical joke you play. I have something to help you. Okay. So one last thing that I'm bringing you as a surprise here, to really enhance your own performance, not that it needs any hands, but a smooth jazz rendition of the Pablo Tore finds out theme song, The Great Bernie Williams, Ladies and Gentlemen, Bernie Williams. This has been Pablo Tore finds out a metal arc media production and we will talk to you next time. [BLANK_AUDIO]