Wattage Cottage Episode 7: A New Smartbike, Race Annulments, and Coffee Controversy

Stages has a new smart bike, and Eric and Shane have already ridden it. There's a swift racing league opener that didn't count, and a report on Australian magpies delivered by Shane, and a hot take round on the most debated button in Zwift. This is Wattage Cottage, Episode 7. So welcome back to Wattage Cottage, everyone. I'm Dave Tull, joined as always by Eric Schlange of Zwift Insider, and from parts unknown the wanderlust of Shane Miller has arrived, GP Lava, thanks for joining us, gentlemen, welcome back. So, Eric, temperatures are dropping, and clocks are changing up in this part of the globe. The indoor season is spinning up quite nicely, so it's not exactly a slow day over there. It's Zwift Insider, is it? Yeah, it is not a slow day at all. There's so much going on. This week I've been on the Wattopia expansion, I've been pre-writing the expansion and early release of it. It's coming out on October 26th, so I'm a couple weeks early, but I'm the one who needs to create Strava segments for all the new routes. So I've been busy there, and then in between all that, I've been writing the tour of Wattopia routes, getting that sweet, sweet double XP, and mostly what I'm doing is I'm chasing level ups because I've got a little side quest going with a couple of friends, we're trying to see who can level up the fastest. Anyway, it's fun stuff, and I'm staying busy. Is one of those friends Ryan? No, it's not Ryan, it's, no, a couple of other guys, couple of guys from Team O-D-Z, shout out to old school Team O-D-Z. Shane, I didn't realize until we went to record that you were actually in the United States right now, I had a whole bunch of questions queued up about down under. Oh, when I'm there, yeah, I'm back in the US at the moment. How about that? It's been a good chaotic few months of travel, and it hasn't finished yet, but I won't reveal where I'm next going to be. It's secret, but I might have to call in from there as well. Oh, look, when I'm back home, things are getting warmer, things are getting a little bit more swoopier from the sky as well. So to tell you the truth, I've been on Zwift a little bit racing tour of Wattopia stage one, which, again, you know, when you're in the pens and it's not a race, and how long does it take to become a race, yeah, until I was out of the pens going hard. So indoors a lot, but the weather is getting better back home, but it's currently in the US. So I'm enjoying my time. Okay. Well, here's the quick synopsis for episode seven. We're going to start with the stages SP 200. I know you were both in Boulder and had a chance to get a good, good look at it. Then we'll talk about Zwift racing league and what happened there in the opening race that actually got thrown out when it was all done and dusted. We'll get changed Magpie report from Australia. And then we will finish with the highly controversial only in the world of Zwift. Do you have this much controversy around a coffee break? We'll get our coffee break hot takes from the guys. This week stages released the SP 200 smart bike a couple of weeks ago, both Eric and Shane were in Boulder, Colorado, to ride it before launch. So before we get into the numbers, I wanted to get their first impressions, Eric, you first. First impressions. Well, first let me say it was really good to be in Colorado to spend some time with the stages crew, good to see that the company is alive and well and building innovative products after going through what you could say was a very rough patch and being acquired by giant eventually. We actually met, we all met up at training peaks headquarters in Louisville. I think that's how they pronounce it in Colorado. It's not Louisville. Yes. Louisville for the main event with, and there was maybe 15 people from the media plus lots of key folks from stages and training peaks. So that was all good. And don't tell anyone, but we did a two hour test ride at training peaks HQ. And it was definitely not on Zwift. I'll give you one guess as to which training platform we were on. Anyway, back to the first impressions, I'd say the bike feels nothing like the original stages smart bike, the SB 20, I mean in terms of, it's smooth like the SB 20, but it's, it doesn't weigh as much as your car like the SB 20 did. The SB 20 was so overbuilt and super heavy and the SB 200 is just much lighter, easier to move. You can pick it up and roll it around and it actually looks like a real bike. And there's lots of thoughtful little unique features that are on the bike, which is good to see because that means that means real people are doing real innovating when they design the bike. That's fun. The handlebar, like cockpit layout, there's a cool little hidden tool in the seat stay. There's some patent pending adjustable crank arms. Anyway, I love seeing stuff like that. So that's all. My first impression was real human thought went into this, which I like. In terms of ride feel, when I first got on it, I would say it felt really smooth, super quiet, generally good. There's a light rocking motion, which was kind of a welcome surprise, I like rocking indoors. So that was nice. The only thing I would say that felt a little bit off in that initial ride was the way kind of the inertial feel changed as you revbed up your cadence, like in a race or sometimes in erg mode, it felt like it would kind of dropped away too much, kind of in an unnatural way in my estimation, and of course, some of this is a little bit subjective, but I would say in saying that, I would also say the stage has listened to that feedback and they've been tweaking the firmware in the last month or so, and that's been improving. So I wouldn't say that's a damning issue. I would just say it was an issue that was raised in those early tests, and they've been working on it. So that's all good. And Shane, what were your first impressions? Did you think of that side-to-side movement? Does there anything that surprised you? Look, there's one word that I said in my review, and I think I heard from every other review as well, and that is smooth. And then I said really smooth, but that's two words again, but let's just go with really smooth. And that, they've got the inertia, like really dialed for that nice smooth, big gear spinning, chasing down the bunch, you're on top of the gear, and you'll hear that from everyone, super smooth. They've kept that from the SB20, and they've improved on a lot of the, I wouldn't say concerns. SB20 was a really good, solid, well-loved bike, but they've just improved things. Well, by improving, I mean, they've halved the weight. This thing comes in at about 33 or 32 kilos. The SB20 was 63 kilos, it was hard to move. It was a tank. But in that, reducing the weight allowed them to add a little bit of movement, and that's welcomed. I'm still ripping out the sprints that I can rip out, longer rise, a little bit more comfy, because there's a little bit more side-to-side movement. So, they've just improved a few things. I think one of the biggest step-ups from a technical perspective is that the bike is compatible with all worlds, and that was their tagline for the actual, the sales pitch, I think. I saw the promo. It was like a bike for all worlds. And that was a really powerful, few little words that technically answered, well, what does this work with? Well, it works with all worlds, all platforms, because it supports open bike control protocol, it supports Rift Protocol, standard Bluetooth FTMS control from anything else. You can use it with anything, which is a big win for them, and for the general indoor cycling crowd who don't want to be locked into a certain platform, we know if you do this with ride, you're locked into, it's with compatible platforms, there's a few of those now. Yeah, out of the box, though, it looks a lot different. It was welcomed that it was a lot lighter, because I've got roady arms. I'm not a mountain bikeer. I'm not that strong. I'm the upper body. Sprint wise gave a bit of a kickback. Erg was a bit different, and I did see Deziap from Desfits Review. He sounds like quite, well, it's Erg, but it's different. And I summed it up with, it's the most sim mode like Erg feel that I've written, because it's sort of up and down a little bit, and it just responds a bit differently. Good or bad, I wouldn't say it's bad, but we've been conditioned to say, okay, here's what Erg is, but there is no Erg standard. There's no Erg white paper on what Erg should be, how it should respond. So you've got to get on and ride it, but yeah, the one take away is super smooth. And to be honest, I've just stepped off another testing session with the team at stages. They knew I was in the area. They knew I was in the back yard doing a transit, and they said, hey, do you happen to have a chance to spin by the office? We've got something to show you, obviously with the bike, and I'm like, I'm interested. So I can't mention anything more, but yeah, I think they've promised a few different Erg modes when it comes out, and I'll leave it at that. I won't say much more, but I wouldn't say unfinished, but there's still a few things for them to unwrap for the bike as well. But yeah, anyway, overall, I'm quite impressed. What impressed? Hey, the magpies, you know, we're going to talk in the show about seasons and globally how Zwift works, but one thing's for sure, I know when it's mid-October that my friends and Australia are under attack from the sky. So bagpipe reports, have you seen any out there? Oh my, they are on the attack and they're getting more aggressive every single year. It might be that I'm running past them more and more for the videos that I'm getting. I've got some great footage over on Instagram. They are attacking. And I did have to make this swifty a bird flew up out of the bushes on Zwift at me the other day. And I flinched. I literally flinched. I'm like, oh, this was my safe place. But it didn't swoop, but there was birds in Zwift that gave me a bit of our PTSD, but they are nasty, nasty birds back home at the moment. Yeah. And it's almost like they're using AI, the magpies. We're going to have to get an ad in, uh, inswift in game where you can put those, uh, like the zip ties that you had coming off your helmet to freak them out. It's going to be an unlock from the, the big spin this year needs to be a zip tie helmet. I think that's my request. So here's what stage is announced. The SB 200 is $2,399 in the US. It weighs about 71 pounds, which stages says is roughly 55 pounds lighter than the SB 20 it replaces. Instead of a big heavy flywheel, it uses a two-stage belt drive with a free wheel to create inertia. It's built to move. The stabilizers have contact points that mirror the front and rear tire contact patches so the bike can sway slightly under you. And there are interchangeable footpaths, uh, plus an optional stabilizer if you want to lock it down. If it's riders from four foot 10 to six foot 10, that is a lot of range. Crank links available from 165 to 175, uh, in the regular intervals between that. This got real shifters, real brake levers, 10 programmable buttons for steering and menus, shifting presets for Shimano SRAM or stages own dream drive and a small built-in display for power, gear, cadence and time. It works with Swift, Ruby, and my WUS shipping starts in October, October 5th. They're already shipping with the UK and Europe following in November. For context, this is the first bike stages has built from the ground up since giant acquired the brand. So I'll start with you this time Shane, your thoughts on the specs, anything special worth mentioning here? Look, a few comments I had on my video because I was ripping out a few big sprints during my power tests and things of these bikes. And look, the bike isn't, it's not a brick fence with a saddle, which the, uh, the stages SB 20 was, that thing would not move. It was locked to the ground with its 64 kilo of weight, um, and it just did not move in as spread. It was locked in. This has a bit of movement side to side. The front, not so much, but it will sway because the rear is moving side to side as well. So there were a lot of comments with people saying it looks really unstable. Looks like you're losing a few, few watts through there. I can guarantee it wasn't not unstable. Um, and I wasn't losing any watts. There was just my legs, nothing out of push out. The kind of watts that I'd like to be doing. Um, but it was just interesting visually how people were looking at it and going, well, the first bike didn't move at all. The second bike does move. Is that an improvement or not? Uh, and for me, on the, on the bike, it absolutely was. Um, and I'm really keen to hear how these go. They are starting to ship now. I was talking to the team today. They're starting to ship now. So what's the feedback that I got? It's too early. No, no one's really unboxing me. We're shipping them. Um, so I can't wait to, to hear how things go when people get them. And the questions that come through from, um, early adopters, it'd be really interesting to see how they find it too. Eric, what are your thoughts? Does it stand out from the crowd? Yeah, I'd say the spec sheet for the SP 200 is really solid. And that's great to see. And I would expect nothing less from stages. I mean, these guys know how to make bikes that don't move, which is sort of a funny thing to say. But it's, it's still worth saying. I mean, they've made and sold hundreds of thousands of commercial level gym bikes over the years. Not everybody realizes that. But that's really that stage is big business. Uh, and in fact, I was looking at the stats and stages claims that over 110 million rides per year happened on their gym bikes. I mean, that's a big number. That's crazy to think about. So they, they know how to build kind of indestructible beefy commercial level bikes. And I think, I think stages really wanted to come back to the smart bike game with a really strong offering. They knew they needed to come in strong, uh, after going through bankruptcy and acquisition. And so, so yeah, they wanted to make a big entrance with the SP 200. So I think they did. I think I think it's a strong offering in terms of the overall feature set. And in terms of the unique features it has to, um, it's still getting like I mentioned, it's still getting a little bit of polish via firmware revisions, which is normal for a, a new and complex product like this is, um, it also is the first bike that uses the open bike control standard for all of its controls, which is a really interesting thing. Uh, it means, I'm sure it means that the things are going to evolve a bit more in that arena as the standard evolves and as the, as real people start using the bike a lot more, that's going to evolve some. But I think, I think where it's really going to land is it's going to land as a really strong modern smart bike that's priced well below those premium bikes from Wahoo and Tax. And I think that's important. Agreed. Well, now the comparison guys that everyone will make. The Swift Ride B2 is just under $1,300 at $12.99. It fits riders from 4 foot 10 to 6 foot 10 uses a separate trainer at the back. The SP 200 is about $1,100 more fits riders up to 6 foot 10. And it's a complete standalone bike. And then there's the front end. The SP 200 has a semi circular wheel shape front kind of built to look like a real bike. Every company that makes one of these has to decide what a bike with no front wheel should look like judging by how many different answers we've seen. That's supposed to be a harder problem to solve than I imagined. So Shane, what's your verdict? Is the SP 200 worth $1,100 US dollars more than the Swift Ride? Which one would you pick for your own pain cave and why? I'm going to put you on the spot. Big question. The angle stages are going for is that a bike for all worlds. You're not locked in to a certain platform for, you're not having to subscribe to anything to actually ride this bike. So I think it's going to come down to that ultimately. That will be the decision people will need to make. If you're happy to be on Swift, if you see yourself being on Zwift for the next X years, sure, Zwift Ride, great, great bundle, good value. But if you want that option of just riding any platform or your wife, husband, children, partner, housemate wants to ride another platform on the same bike, you're really going to have to think hard about that. I think $1,100 is with ride frame and which includes the kicker quarter, that is, that is damn good value and has changed the game entirely about price point and value for these things. So stages, there's a 2400 I think of the top of my head. That's still pretty good value for what it is. But yeah, they've changed the goalpost seven thing with the ride. It all comes down to what platform you're going to be on, who you're loyal to. I don't think when it comes to actual, you know, can I get a better workout on one or the other? I think it's going to be a line ball. That really is. They both got have similar specs, bit of a different ride field. If you ride down the rabbit hole of specific training and things like that, but I think for 99.99% of people, it's one of the other and the decision is about not just the hardware, it's about what you use it with. I love the modularity of this with ride because I can use any trainer and I can test most power meters on it. But if I just had to have one, I'm leaning towards stages with, I love your setup. I love the value, but I'd lean towards stages because it's an all in one platform. It's not modular and it could just be unboxing go. So it might be a controversy there, but I'll go with the stage this B 200. Brave, answer, Shane, thank you. So Eric, peg leg or semi circle. Does looking like a bike really matter? Who do you think ends up picking the SB 200 over this with ride and why? Peg leg or semi circle? The eternal question. I will say that purely in terms of aesthetics, I like the look of this with ride more. I like that it looks like an arrow racing bike. Beauty is in the eye of the holder. I get that. And some folks may like the look of the SB 200 more with its artsy front wheel. So you're not going to get any judgment from me on that. Now to the question about who would pick the SB 200 over the Zwift ride, I agree with Shane. I think the most obvious answer to that is anyone who's using training peaks virtual or my wish. Because it's made to work on all platforms, whereas the Zwift ride really works on Zwift and Ruby. So, you know, and I guess also I would say the SB 200 will also appeal to super tall folks because it goes all the way up to six foot ten inches instead of the six foot six. of the Swift ride. So it's like the NBA stars, smart bike. As a 90s basketball fan, here's what I would note, Michael Jordan could ride the Swift ride, but magic Johnson, he'd have to have the SB 200. What about Shaq? Well, Shaq's out of luck. He's going to have to get a custom one. Next, it's Swift Racing League. The 26/27 season was supposed to open on September 22nd with the new race of truth format. One lap of the malt-marked mixer in Paris drafting off, TT bikes off, scored like a points race. Sounds pretty straight ahead. Well, it didn't go to plan. TT bikes stayed enabled in some events, which gave those riders an arrow advantage in a race where nobody was supposed to have one. And yeah, it just got worse and worse from there. On top of that registration and roster problems kept some teams off the start line, Swift emailed racers and apology and annulled every result from race 1. Every team started race 2 on 0 points, so round 1 standings are decided over the remaining 5 races. Swift promised extra quality checks before each race going forward. But as you can imagine, over on Reddit and the racing forums, the reaction was split. Some riders accepted the apology and moved on. And others pointed out, this isn't the first time that ZRL scoring and results have caused problems. And they put the blame on WTRL, the organization that runs the league for Swift. So Eric, what actually happened that day? You sort of saw it all unfolding. Oh, man, it was a mess. It just so happened that I didn't race ZRL on that particular day because of a scheduling issue. And that actually turned out to be a really good thing because it gave me time to communicate with Zwifters and WTRL and kind of figure out what was happening and try to help the situation. And anyway, I could. But what actually happened. So the problem is there are three big things that went wrong as I see it. First, you've got the last minute kind of registration, roster, time change issues. Teams were allowed to register really late in the game. And WTRL was juggling leagues and moving teams around and changing start times in the final hours, which meant that some riders had signed up for races that then got canceled and moved and race passes got canceled. And they had to sign up for a new race pass. And sometimes those were at different times. And it got really confusing, which led to some riders missing their race entirely, including our good friend, Nathan Guerra, who who's no dummy when it comes to tech. But he missed his race because of this issue. Uh, secondly, you've got the, the T T bike debacle. This was, this was caused by just a simple event setting that wasn't toggled. The event setting that says no T T bikes are allowed. T T bikes are so much faster than road bikes that if you, if you say they're not allowed, but then the event actually allows them, it makes the race results essentially meaningless because some people are going to have T T bikes in summer. I knew as soon as I heard that T T bikes were being allowed, that the whole day was just going to be annulled. It was just going to be too much of a mess. There's nothing else you can do. Uh, the third issue and last issue was the actual communication that happened around these issues on that day. It, it basically all happened on WTRL's Facebook page. And in, in kind of a goofy and unclear manner, the way it came out, I tried to share maybe some more, tried to bring some more clarity to it on my page over on Zwift Insider, but that's an imperfect situation at best. Uh, there were just, in the end, there were just so many folks who simply had no idea what was going on. So, so yeah, mistakes were made. But I don't think we can really pin those mistakes on anyone person, not that we're looking to anyway, but the truth is it could have been handled better by both as Zwift and WTRL. Those two, they both work together on ZRL, sort of like any subcontractor relationship would work, Zwift sometimes tells WTRL what needs to happen. And other times decisions are left up to WTRL. As I understand it, the issues that I just talked about, they weren't caused by only WTRL or only Zwift. It was some sort of a messy interplay between the two that, that ended up causing it. In the end, it's, it's WTRL's job to make all this stuff happen and to make it all a great experience for Zwifters, which, which sometimes might mean pushing back on what Zwift is asking for. Uh, there's definitely a sort of a push pull relationship there is kind of what I'd pick it up on in my talks with folks, which, which is healthy to some extent, but it can really be dysfunctional too if it's not managed well. And I think, I think really in the end, what we saw with race one was just some of that dysfunction, sort of working itself out. Uh, it sounds like Zwift and WTRL both learned something from that experience. They're implementing some changes because of it. But like you mentioned, similar stuff has happened before some ZRL races are feeling that sort of once bitten twice shy thing because it really sucks to go all in on a race only to have it annulled. Like I said, I'm glad I skipped the race. Shane, what are your thoughts on this? Look, I kept, I saw what happened, but I kept clear of the comments and the forums and the post because I'm sure I know personally that when riding at threshold involves frustration elsewhere, the comments come from a different place and all my words, I feel for everyone on all range. I'm not, I'm sure it wasn't on purpose to make things go the way they did. And when people really put a lot of stuff on the line and these people, they train for this. This is, this is, you put your everything on the line. You hope that everyone else also has the same level of commitment at all levels. But again, nothing was on purpose. So, it's just the way it is. It's just unfortunate that we get a lot of these in East, what a lot of early on in the seasons as well. But look, onwards and upwards, every session is a good training session, even an FTP test. It's a good training session, even when you fail. So look, let's see how they go from here on in. I'll keep an eye on the results. It's always good to see how much power that I've got no hope in putting ass other people doing. Well, we've learned it's spring in Australia, which means it's magpie swooping season. I don't know if that's technically what they call it. But for everyone listening here in the Northern Hemisphere, there's a YouTube video that Shane put up. It went viral. It is mind blowing how terrifying it is when these magpie's attack. Shane, give us the magpie report. Yeah, they're in full swing of things. Lucky they're not swinging bats or anything at us. No, they're just swinging their beaks at us. But yeah, they're improving every year with their aerobatics and ability to pick. They're now landing on my shoulder. I have a slow mo video of their claws actually sticking into my shoulder into my jersey and their beaks going around and picking my glasses. Now, I could only pick this up with a 360 camera before I was just doing flat filming camera with the three with their GoPro and things like that. But now I've got a 360 camera. I can really zone, you know, how these things attack you. It's in slow motion. And oh, my word, they are, they're brutal. Having said that, there is nothing more hilarious than watching someone else get frightened. Almost off their bikes by these sweeping magpies. Firstly, because you're not getting attacked, but watching people react to it is actually quite amusing. But yeah, look, they are nasty. If you feed on Instagram or anywhere you're scrolling through things, includes anything from Australia, this time I can guarantee you that we multiple magpie instances in that feed. And yeah, that depends on which end you are on. If you're an observer, hilarious, you're the receiver, pretty fronty. I tell you, watching a magpie attack is probably like watching your best friend walk into a sliding glass door. It's hysterically funny for for a moment, even though it's not you guys will both have some good insight on this. It leads to a bigger point about this show and platform. When Zwift says indoor season is starting, they're talking about where Eric and I are up in the northern hemisphere for you. Well, and you are right now. But for you, in general, the days are getting longer and warmer right now at home in Australia. And Christmas is a summer holiday. So how does the Zwift calendar look from Australia with the big winter events landing in the middle of your best riding weather would stuff? I think people accommodate for it, though. There's one of the top riders and I'll call it the name Marka Brian top Australian rider. It's amazing that the power numbers these guys are putting out, they'll enter a race. And I think it's the ZRL that was at stage one the other week, whatever it was. He put out something like 380 watts or near on 390 watts. I think it was just off the top of my head for 40 minutes, 45 minutes. Now that was me and my prime back in my racing day, back in my day when I was at the top of my game. It's a Marka Brian. That's Tuesday night after work this week. And it's probably going to be more next week. Uh, I think they accommodate very, very well, but man, those numbers we're seeing people put out absolutely phenomenal, but the calendar can turn us around giving out time zones, but hardcore export races, they're on, they're on any time of the day. Eric, what does Zwift Insiders traffic tell us about the hemisphere split? I guess we'll call it if anything. So, so over on Zwift Insider, traffic for us peaks from about November through March, which surprises no one, uh, and it drops by around 30 or 40 percent during the Northern hemisphere's summer, so like May, June, July months drops around 30 or 40 percent. Of course, traffic from Australia and New Zealand during those months helps to soften that drop off, which is nice. But even at the height of summer, I checked my stats and Australia plus New Zealand only account for around 6 percent of our traffic. So, and my guess is that Zwift usage some numbers are really similar. That's what I've heard in the past. So, so Australia usage is significant, I mean 6 percent is not, not a small thing, but probably not significant enough for Zwift to shift their plans about around any of their major events. Last segment, coffee break hot takes. A quick refresher for anyone who hasn't used it in a group ride coffee break lets you stop pedaling for a few minutes and get carried along with the group so you can refill a bottle or take a break without getting dropped, that was the plan. Anyways, things get a little out of control. So the first question is it ever okay to take a coffee break at the front of a fast group ride, the tour of Watopia running right now, the group rides are full. So pretty intense out there sometimes, they'll be riders hitting that button at the front and frustrating the people behind them. Let's start with you Eric. You know what? I'm going to say it's not okay because you said the front of a very fast group ride those are two really important qualifications. If you're somewhere mid-pack or near the back of a ride or if it's not a fast ride, then coffee break all you want, I don't care. But in the front of a fast group ride, particularly like in vision like a tour of Watopia ride, there's 300 people racing riding, sorry it's a group ride, there's 300 people riding, but the front of those rides is essentially a race. You're not even there unless you're putting out a level power. Everyone there knows that using a coffee break goes against the spirit of the game. You may end up winning that group ride, but you're going to lose the respect of the other riders who worked hard to keep that pace up the whole time. Over to you Shane, your take on this controversy. I never knew coffee would be so controversial, but here we are, it's a lift. In the comments section, people get angry, someone coffee breaks on your wheel, people are waving around, you turning, trying to break them off, and now the kilometres don't count, nothing counts. It's all a bit of fun. Look, just do not take away my descending kilometres from Elktersworth. I've gone all the way up that hill. I want my three kilometres on the way down, so don't take that away from me. I don't get drops for it. Nobody gets drops if you're not putting power out, so we're already penalising the drops. Let me get my XP, but look, as long as XP farming still exists, and people are still posting on Reddit, I found this small hack that isn't really a hack, but it's a way I can level up fast. I want to, I'm a big XP farmer myself, actually, a big fan of route of the week, and what are the route of the week, climb of the week, and the multipliers that it's happening now during turbo-idotopia, I'm all for that, but yeah, coffee break, my word. I love the controversy. I love it. Good engagement. Eric, it doesn't end there. There's the abuse as well. The riders joining a group behind a steady pacer, like Constance, the robo-pacer, activating coffee break and collecting free kilometres. They do it again and again from the couch, so Eric, how widespread is this? Is Wiff going to do anything about it? Yeah, I mean, this is just, this is blatant abuse from lazy gamers, and I get it. There's this weird attitude among some gamers that if the game allows it, it's okay. And I just, I just disagree. I think, I think there's still morality and personal responsibility, even in gaming, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. How widespread is it? I mean, I never ride with Constance. I'm not strong enough, so I can't say from personal experience, but I've had riders tell me that when they've been riding with her, at least in the last few months, I've heard this report multiple times that they see other riders just constantly popping in coffee breaking and then popping out, multiple times. So I think it's fairly common, at least in the Constance group. Is Wiff doing anything about it? Well, that's the good news, actually. Word is, there's a change rolling out in next week's update, probably just a few days after this episode releases, there's a change rolling out that will fix this. So stay tuned, we'll find out. Well, Eric, and Shane, it sounds like the people have spoken, at least the people of Watopia. So guys, thanks a lot. This was not an easy episode to record. You both really went above and beyond. So thanks again, gentlemen, Shane, first to you, safe travels home. I hope you had a good trip to the United States, and thanks for all you bring to the wattage cottage, my friend. Yeah, yeah, cheers guys. Cheers for accommodating a bit behind the scenes for the listeners. I'm Dave, I'm probably only an hour from, I'm as close as I've ever been from you, but I'm this far away as I could be to committing to getting on here, finding some bandwidth. And because I've got no schedule at the moment, everything's just moving and it was like a certain area. I won't discuss where I was, we won't talk about that next episode. It was raining and raining a lot. So we went riding bikes, we were doing other things, and then, well, today was just absolute chaos. I had to rebook a flight and ended up testing ERG mode, and it's chaos over here. So yeah, I'm glad we're finally aligned. And I mean, I could talk about this stuff all day, so I'm glad to be sitting here just for a few minutes and catching up on all things, WIFT. And indoors. Well, as always, thanks a lot, Shane. Eric sent people to where they can find your good work. And thanks again. There's WIFTInsider.com, that's the place where we're on all the socials too, but the website's really where all the content lives, so I'd love to have you over there. So as we say goodbye, I wanted to tell you about something that matters a lot to me. It's called Roormate. If you've got a rowing machine at home, maybe one that's been sitting in the corner for a while, well, dust it off, as Roormate turns it into something that pulls you back in. Roormate uses the iPhone and Apple Watch to count every stroke, track your distance and pace, and give you real meters per stroke. We urge anywhere. It also connects you to rowers around the world, one stroke sensor, one worldwide crew. So we're in beta right now, and I'd love for you to be a part of it if it fits. Go to roormate.com, sign up, and you're on the list to get early access and help shape the app before it launches. So that's roormate.com, R-O-W-E-R, the letter M, and the number eight dot com. Thanks. Looking forward to seeing you next time in the Wattage cottage. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music]