Watch and Running Gadget Talk with Kendall Peacock

Comparing Sports Watches: Garmin, Coros, Sunto, and Apple What I was going to say about sunto then, because I have. Speaker 2 Lunch. Speaker 1 And the and the 5-6 years I've been coaching, I think I've had one sunto athlete, yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've I've had a play with one on my wrist for a week. Quite enjoyed it. Quite a nice watch. Yeah, they. Speaker 1 Are very good. Speaker 2 Probably a little bit easier to use than a chorus in my view. Yeah, that's only because the the ecosystems closer to that of Garmin. Speaker 1 Oh yeah. Speaker 2 But it's more about, I think the big one is sports. Sports watch versus Apple Watch is like the first gate. Yeah, because we're either right hand, never get, never get a Samsung. Yeah, because they just don't work with them. They just don't work right. Yeah, not made. They're made to be a smart watch, not a sports watch at all. At least Apple's venturing into sports. Speaker 1 Yes, and doing not too bad. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. And then it's OK. So we we know we want a sports watch. And then you know what, what works well for us as coaches, what we're familiar with. At the end of the day, you get what you can afford. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I'm not really an expert on on them and I don't really notice much difference between chorus and gammon except for I find it necessary that athletes have a heart rate monitor. So yeah, yeah, apples with apples, you know, that's the main. Speaker 2 Thing, but then even that heart rate monitor is a good thing. If we're going to if I've got an athlete that I'm going to be using heart rate as the tool, then I want them to get a chest. I don't I don't want them to get straight. Oh, really not not good enough if I'm solely going to be heart rate, if it's a little bit better than they watch more consistent and they understand heart rate and it's just another metric that they're collecting. I think it can work. OK. But I think if you're really wanting to dial down the heart rate, ECG across the chest is by fast. And then with Garmin, for example, the Garmin heart rate strip, you then Add all the other metrics that it gathers. So you get a lot more detail about. You can look into that data and see what the running efficiency is like by digging into some numbers, you know, ground contact, time, stopping pair, pair or yeah, it's just, it's just better metrics. Speaker 1 Oh yeah, because the Garmin heart rate strap has built in power. Is it into the actual, into the actual monitor or into the watch? Speaker 2 No, it's, it's well, the, it's end of the watch, but the, the meat, the, the potentiometers are all in the chest strap. And because it's central to the body, we get some twisting rotation. We get good lift and right, we get really good ground contact time for each feet. It can tell whether it's, you know, your 4 foot striking well ahead of your, your serum mask because there's a stopping force every time that goes down. You're looking at oscillate gets really good data on oscillation that the watch is calculating based on our movements, not that seem to point in our chest. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 I think chest strap is gold standard if you want, if you want, if you want heart rate data that doesn't rely on this shit and you watch slipping down or you've constantly, you know, want to wear over a jacket and all sorts of other stuff, then the arm band look makes perfect sense, right? Yeah. Speaker 1 I don't mind the arm band because heart rates for me, coaching heart rates, part of, you know, the basket of yeah. Speaker 2 So that's what I'm saying. If you want to deliberately coach with heart rate and really drill down that metric, then that's the chest strap as a heart thing. And then it comes with other advantages from a data perspective. But yeah, you know, you take you take what Shah's doing and how she's getting coached from Simon Arms. More accurate than watch. It's not more accurate. It's more consistent because it doesn't rely on all those funny things. You do it up around there, you get it nice and firm. It doesn't move. It doesn't impact with your arm doing all sorts of stuff, you know. Speaker 1 It's just perspective for me anyway. If I've got a bunch of athletes with the chorus armband, I'm like cool apples with apples I'm not worried about. They've got this model of they've got a 9 by 5 Garmin and they're terrible on the wrist sensor, whereas the 2 by 5 was. All right, Yeah. Speaker 2 You've got a, you've got a Garmin 1A, Garmin 55. Please get a get an arm straight, you know, have you got one of these? And the heart rate model is really accurate until it slips down your wrist and sits in the wrong space. And next thing you think you're doing a your heart rate's at 180. Speaker 1 Yeah. Or if you've got a big watch and like a little wrist, like I don't have particularly big wrists and that's not really going to get the context. Speaker 2 Or it's got tattoos around your wrist. I mean, I wish I'd put a heart strip on for Kings because I don't think my heart rate data was any was any value. At least I don't trust it to look at that and go, I knew my heart rate was going to be elevated, but I can't trust the numbers that my watch was giving me because it gave it gave me that. I did 4 minutes at 190. Speaker 1 Oh yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah, you know, that's that's 10 over my Max heart rate, so. Speaker 1 Find like humidity and moisture can do things like that with the. Speaker 2 Sense of so you know, gold standard is gold standard is chest strap. But once again you get what you pay for. The garment strap that I use is like 600 bucks. Speaker 1 Really. Speaker 2 Yeah, but it does so much and it can do remote. So I can put my watch. I could take my watch off and put it in my pack, push start, put it in my pack and run. That's going to give me everything that the rock genre like. So if you want to run naked, that's a way way better way to do it. Speaker 1 What? So what model of heart rate strep is that? Speaker 2 It's HRM 600. Speaker 1 Yeah, and it's 600 bucks, aptly name. Speaker 2 It's the 600 models. It's also got some other advantages that the actual heart rate monitor pops off so you can wash the strip properly. It's USB charge. So I just plug it in every now and then, you know, so you don't have that same. Oh shit, my battery's six months old and all of a sudden died on me, you know, in the middle of the run. Speaker 1 Annoying when the battery goes yeah and. Speaker 2 You can wash it. Well, yeah, I mean it works in the pool, does really good data in the pool if you use your power as that is just a number to work off. Understanding Power Meters, Core Temp, and Salt Testing And once you know someone's using a gum and they use those numbers because the numbers between stride and Garmin and sort of quite different, very different. So that's the thing. If you're going to use pair, it has to be the same meter all the time. Not not power off my watch sometimes and then power off my chest strap sometimes and then power for stride sometimes. It's going to be like. Speaker 1 And it's the same with any metric. Speaker 2 But I don't think. Speaker 1 It's pretty good because I mean a stride power meter is 4 or 500 bucks on its own anyway. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. No, it's not cheap. Speaker 1 Yeah, I've got one of them kicking around in the cupboard somewhere. Speaker 2 But they're getting better and better batteries better on the new ones. Sensors are better on the new ones. Mine's yeah. I find my batteries a pain in the ass because I mean, I, I put it on the morning, go for a run and then I, those shoes are on my feet for half another few hours before I get out of them. And then, you know, and then they're in my backpack and they're just, they're constantly trying to do shit rather than if, if I was coming back to the, to the bus, taking my shoes off, taking the power meters off, they sort of go into sleep mode. And so the batteries last better. Speaker 1 Oh yeah, do you use power when coaching athletes much? Speaker 2 No, I haven't yet at all. But what the power meters have given me is an idea of what that means. So relating my power to my effort level, my heart rate, my pace, hills, downhills, I've got a far better idea how that power, you know, if I want to maintain an, an average power of 300 watts, I now know what if it that is to do a hill at 300 watts versus a downhill at 300 watts. So it's it's more of a, it was more of a an experiment for me to understand we're that and what would be that we're that effort versus measured effort, because that's re essential power. Power is right, measured effort. It gave me a whole lot more to go and go, oh, cool. If I'm if I'm wanting someone to run a 7 on the flat, I actually want them to run A5 on the hill, you know, on the yeah, yeah, on going uphill because that's how much it's going to impact. So it was more of a experience just like that. I'd spend some time with the core body temperature sensor. Pain in the ass to use. Not really good, not easy to see the data, but some really valuable insight into how much heat actually makes a difference to heart rate, for example. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 You know, I can go for a run in the morning at 5-8 degrees around the farm and then I can go for a run at 2:00 in the afternoon in Hawke's Bay heat. And man, you can see the difference between into the body, team, heart rate, pace for same effort, you know, So once again, going too deep for most athletes. But the knowledge I've gained by using yeah, it just. Speaker 1 Helps with communicating stuff to athletes. Yeah, around, you know, going easy when it's hotter or, you know, it's like giving that permission to be like, hey, you know what? Like if you're feeling fatigue and it's a hot day and you're dehydrated, just go easier. Speaker 2 You know, it's fine and it validates your experience because you've you've looked at your experience against some data, but also it speeds up your experience because you're learning so much quicker because you've got the data to look at and go, oh, that's, that's that correlation relationship. Whereas without that, it might have taken me another year of thinking about that particular issue to learn that, you know, so it's quite interesting. But even comparing ambient temperature on my, because I run with a temp sensor as well, just a external thermometer, I usually put it on my shoe or on if I've got a pack, I put it on the back of my pack. So that gives me a really good guide of what the actual temperature is. And then your internal body temperature and you can see the differences and you can see how it changes. But even even reducing effect level, running along at 8 where it goes my temperature and then, OK, let's let's pull it back to a six. And then all of a sudden you know your body gets temperature under control. Or put the scarf on with or the the flash hat cooling hat and then see your core body temperature start to low because you've done something about your core body temperature. Speaker 1 Extension. Yeah. Yeah, that stuff works. Like doing interventions like that work. Speaker 2 Because we're actually, we're actually threading a really fine needle with body temperature, right? Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Especially if you're really racing, like marathon Ek racing third or something, yeah. Speaker 2 Even in a backyard, if you if you're just wearing a little bit too much clothing and pushing a little bit hard and your body temperature gets up a little bit more, that means your whole total stress just increased by three, 4%. Well, three or four, Yeah, it makes a stricken difference. It's like, but it's the same as my salt testing. So I I don't know if you saw my salt test came in at 2550. Speaker 1 Yeah, I saw you are quite high on the I saw a post from Henner. Speaker 2 Yeah, a very high on the list, right? But I was working. I knew I was a salty sweater, so I was working on that sort of 1800 to 2000. So even at King's last year, I could have been 500 short, which as a percentage is not 500. What milligrams of sodium per hour? Sure, it's a lot, eh? Yeah, Well, and it probably right over 5 or 6 hours, but over 34, that's going to start making a difference. Now, what has made me realize is I know I was sucking on some mineral at times and blah, blah, blah. So I'm going to look back through my because I've got it all recorded, exactly what I what I took. So I'm going to go back and actually do the hard math on what I was taking in. And now compare that to what I think I was losing, and I'll see how close it was. Because I given how I was feeling and how quickly I recovered from Kings, I think I might have been taking more sodium than I thought, which for most people could be a problem. It wasn't a problem for me because my deficit was so big, my number's so high. But let's imagine I wasn't that much of A sweater and I was maybe only 1500. And all of a sudden when I look at the math I've been taking in 2200 that that could be an issue. Speaker 1 Yeah, well, that's GI distress. Speaker 2 All over well, I'm taking too much electrolyte water then I need and that's many. I'm not taking enough of just clean water to help carbohydrate management. Speaker 1 Especially at night time like changes. So if you're hotter like talking about kings, you know, because it's warmer but warmer there during the day and then you're sort of like loading up on water sodium and then you sort of get to that night time where your requirements taper down and as the fatigued runner you. Speaker 2 Might. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not quite thinking that. And I think that's in the backyard. It's about sticking to do the math, work out what you need. Speaker 1 Make a plan, right? Reflecting on Kings Backyard Ultra and UTA Race Experiences Well, that was a nice digression to start things off. And we're going to. Yeah, I took about watches today. But first, how was Kings Backyard Ultra Kendall this weekend? You've just fresh from your third Kings, isn't it? Speaker 2 Yeah, it was the third Kings for me. It wasn't so great winning with a bit of a niggle in the back, so decided on being a little bit cautious and just doing 3 yards. PB was a long way away and even if I could have run 10 it probably would have done more harm than than good. So I settled back and stayed for the entirety of the event and watched what was going on. Absolute fabulous event with Chris and Helen once again putting on a superb event. Pretty good live stream from what I can, what I've heard from people. So that was pretty cool. Benny Fraser on the mic did a pretty good job for the 1st 24 and then Mel did a bit of a shift as well so that you know the event was amazing. The performances were pretty good by a huge number of people and the guy who came in as the assist really blew out of PB of a significant number of yards. So that was pretty impressive and just great humans doing great things. PBS out the gate for one of my athletes met. So that was a solid effort from here. I should have seen the smiles on her face. And then there was a number of other people just all the way through just doing great stuff. A few of the big guns didn't have the greatest of days, but sometimes that happens in a backyard is it's still a long way and you get 24 hours and there's still a whole lot of running to go. So couple of 200, quite a few got 200 KS, which is really cool. Speaker 1 Yeah, so much can happen. I'll see. I sort of like looking at the field and then going, well, Simon and Anthony, Kurt Taylor might be, you know, digging some holes later on, but it wasn't to be. Speaker 2 No, and I mean ants had ants had brilliant in the tank. But that's The funny thing with the backyard, you've got to have the people in the right space to go with you. And it's all very well and good getting to the event with the training under your belt ready to go, but sometimes the minds got to go with you and sometimes fuelling just doesn't work out. So there's still lots of things that get in people's way, so. Speaker 1 So many things. Speaker 2 All those people that were out there, I think they did an Absolutely Fabulous job. The event crew was fabulous. The event itself was just so cool. Lots of chats with really good friends, lots of chats with new friends, lots of chats with some coaches, lots of chats with athletes about their training. So All in all, for me, had an absolute ball. I think people are pretty sick of my voice by the time I've finished that. Speaker 1 Don't give Kendall the microphone. I mean, you might get some empathy. So it's a great course to go long on really, isn't it? It was. Speaker 2 And they made some, they made some adjustments to the course. They took out a couple of the the horrible loops that that did exist and changed it up a little bit. The course apart from it starting to rain towards the back end was in pretty good neck a little bit faster than the previous year early on. And then I think by the time 30 yards hit, she started to get a little bit slower. So that's partly something that might have impacted on a few people. But like anything, if you're going to prepare to run a backyard, you've got to be able to run on all conditions, all under foot conditions, prepare the body, have that muscular endurance, get your feeling right and and give it a good nudge. Yeah, absolutely. And you've, you've been over in at UTA a couple of weeks ago. Speaker 1 Yeah, we've just been on a mega trip, which has been awesome. So we're about 3 1/2 weeks away in total, split between the Blue Mountains West of Sydney and Bali for a bit of holiday vibes. But yeah, so we were in the Blue Mountains the week leading into the UTA event week and yeah, did 100 plus kilometers in the course, over 4000 meters elevation. Me and Cher, it's like some good quality couples time. So yeah, across four days we got on, we got on 100 odd KS of the course. And yeah, brilliant to see the course actually. So yeah, pretty gnarly. Yeah, gnarly course. So I'm, I'm more, I'm more excited and geared up for the Mylar for next year because I'm excited about that course for me 7000 meter vert on that Mylar course. Speaker 2 Yeah, that's the way it's supposed to be though, right? Speaker 1 Yeah, it's granted, Yeah. So just being there. Yeah. And they have a good, I think there's 450 runners in the Milo. And so I like, you know, a big field as well. That's cool. Better than doing a Milo with like 50 people. Yeah. It's nice to have like a big field. Gets a bit less lonely out there, more runners to yarn with. But yeah, great event actually. And it's a very huge event. It's like so 8000 runners and but you don't really notice the scale of it. It's we didn't find it. I didn't, I expected it to be hard to drive around and support or get around the event. It's not at all. It's quite the opposite. Very easy. I mean, even getting to the area from Sydney, you can jump on a train, hire a car, whatever, and you're getting around the event on event weekend is actually very easy because it's sort of like these three over the Mylar course. There's sort of like these three cloverleaf loops. And so the runners are looping back around back to Katoomba or Lura. Yeah, every sort of loop, every separate loop that they do, 100 KS got 2/2 of the loops. 50K is one of them, so yeah, not really good. Speaker 2 Awesome. Definitely on a bucket list is. Speaker 1 UTA, yeah, yeah, yeah. Highly recommend it. I think the hardest part of it, UTA, is probably just getting accommodation. I know that's a bit challenging, but even then, like you could book a bit further out and just travel in to your start line. Yeah, the Blue Mountains region itself is bigger and more populated than I was expecting when I was going into it. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. And they courses, the big take away for me was yeah, a lot of vert yeah stairs and just a big variation. You've got some real easy running, fire roads and flat running. And then you'll have like, a massive climb that has crazy stairs in it, followed by like, yeah, tricky running with little stairs and ups and downs and rock hopping, and then followed by, you know, 20 KS of nice running again. And so, yeah, big, big, big swing in the variance of what you get under foot, which is, yeah, it attracts me, that sort of thing. There's a strength for everyone. Speaker 2 Out there, all right. Essential Considerations When Choosing a Running Watch Ecosystem Man, you want to talk about watches? Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, let's do, let's do that, let's do that. What are some of the questions you get about watches? Of course I. Speaker 1 Don't know. Speaker 2 Which one I get is, do I need to watch? And I think, I think it's pretty obvious that we it's almost impossible to train someone in this day and age without a watch. It's not not impossible almost, and it's certainly as a remote coach makes our job a lot easier if you've got a good watch that's doing the job that we need it to do. And then the second one is which one? Because there's just such a variety of watches out there now. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. And then what I generally think is another one too, because it's sort of like, do I spend 500 bucks and get this one or do I spend the extra 500 bucks and get the one with all the features? Speaker 2 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the voice I give to most people early on is you want to, you want to spend as much as you can to get the best watch that you can or as much as you can afford. But I, but I think the most important thing is if you're not too sure about your running journey, most of the entry level watches from the sports watch perspective all do a pretty good job. And there's certainly no reason to go and spend a hang of a lot of money on a watch. I mean, I've done that, but I knew I wanted, you know, battery life out the gate. So therefore I needed to spend the money to do that. But most of the entry level watches, you know, the Garmin 70, the cross pace, the some to run, you know that the entry level prices are actually pretty good. And by and large, they all do a pretty good job of what the design to do. And then you can upgrade that capability with a heart rate strap or a, or a, or an arm band strap for for heart rate if you need to. And then after you've been running for four years, if you're anything like me, it's time for an upgrade. But then you know what it is you want in a watch. You've probably learned a little bit about the different ecosystems and I think you can then be a better informed about what it is that you need in the watch. Speaker 1 Yeah, so how much is the entry level for like a gammon chorus sunto? Speaker 2 For example, you're looking at you're looking at 500 probably across the range, there's some of them get down to about 400. You could probably pick up a a gammon for 50, you know, 4 runner 55 for a little bit cheaper than that at the moment because I've released a new model, but there's not too much wrong with the old models. So don't think it necessary for your first one has to be new. There's also plenty of people who are upgrading like I've I've given away my previous three watches because I've upgraded and have no need for them anymore. And so I like to like to pass those on. So there are there is availability to do that as well. The the new ones though do do so much. Speaker 1 They do last I like I've still got an old 245 kicking around from like 2018. Yeah, it's like 8 years ago. Speaker 2 Yeah, still. And if you're only after, if you're only after basic GPS to get your pace, distance, basic heart rate and time, I mean, and the ability to lap, I mean, those watches are going to do a perfectly good job. The things that move over time is battery life gets extended. Batteries do start to slow down. So that's a factor. But you know, if you're running one or two hours a day and you could charge a Garmin or a or a Sinto or a Chorus for for 40 minutes and get 80% of battery life back, you know, so you don't, it's not like an Apple Watch that probably needs to be plugged in or not. Sorry, that's an athlete ringing me. And then you need to, you need to then make those decisions based on what it is you're after in a watch. But yeah, they last. They last really well. So I think the other question is what, you know, when we're talking about the watches as what ecosystem are we living in? I think if you're after a watch to live your life and do a little bit of running, something like a smart watch like Apple, like a true smart watch like Apple works because it integrates your whole life and your whole office job into that. And that sort of makes sense. But if you're after a true sports watch, then I would go the other way and go to one of the big three being Corus Santo or Garmin. I'm a Garmin fan. I make no bones about that. I sell all three in the shop. I recommend Garmin. I think it's got the best functionality, I think it's got the best integration. I think it's easiest to use. It works really well with training peaks without any problems, but it can get more expensive once you move out of those space models. Speaker 1 Yeah, I must admit, like from a coaching point of view, I've had athletes most most, I probably say 90% of my athletes over the years I've had Garmin and that's definitely the least amount of issues with their watches. Like in terms of oh, my watch isn't working, I have to contact them and get things sorted out like a very, very, very really to never. They just don't seem to fault or break kind of thing. Whereas I have had that a little bit with other models, you know, a few times with Chorus and things like that. Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, the new Santos really stepped up and they're a great man. And watch the Santos altometer I think is better than all the others and it's reasonably easy to adjust. I find the chorus hard to adjust screen so and as a coach. Speaker 1 Knob kind of thing. Hey, like the how? Speaker 2 You. Yeah. And that one knob. Once again, I've got used to Garmin. I've been in Garmin my whole my whole running life. So that that just makes it easy for me. And then I know when I see athletes training how that's going to appear on their watches. So if I'm going to recommend anything for one of my athletes looking at buying, I'm, I'm recommending Garmin, even if it's only from that aspect. Because then if there's issues, I know I can solve them on the fly. Whereas with, sorry, with some tour cross, I'd need to go in the shop, get a watch out, have a play with it, go, Oh yeah, I know what's going on now and then sort of get back to them with the solution. But they're all much of A match. I think the biggest thing that people won't need to understand is the watch alone is only a really small part of the picture. The the app does most of the work. So you might get a cheaper watch, but the app is where the the real grunt gets done as far as the usability and the data is concerned. So you don't need to worry about the watch as much as you think. Also, the heart rate monitoring of the watches certainly degrades as you get closer to the entry level, but also even the best Garmin, the heart rate monitor really does depend on how well you've got it on your wrist and a whole lot of other factors like whether you've got tattoos, whether it's weight and other things. So most systems if you're going to rely on heart rate then I would recommend getting either an armband which is not too expensive, or my gold standard is a Garmin chest strap and the most expensive you can buy. Diving Deep into Advanced Watch Features and Practical Use So like when you say ecosystems, different ecosystems, what do you sort of mean by that? Speaker 2 So once it's like, it's like the difference between using an, an Apple product or a, or what's the other, you know, or different a non Apple phone. You know, if I try and pick up a non Apple phone, I get lost and it's so quick. I just don't know where to look. Whereas I find Apple, because I've been in that environment, that ecosystem, I can operate it really effectively and I can I can use it easy. So that that's that could be the power of the ecosystem goes and what you're used to. So if you're going to buy a chorus and you get annoyed with it, any switch to Garmin is going to feel a little bit counterintuitive to start with until you get used to that ecosystem and vice versa. What I love about Garmin is I can go into the app, I can change the settings on my watch through the app. I can just do a lot more with it and turn my ringer off and it just the adjustability and that sort of thing makes sense. Once again, as a coach, if my athletes are using the same as me, I can dive down that quite quickly. Whereas if they're using a different watch, it just takes a little bit longer for me to work out what's going on. But I've got experience with everybody. Like I've got athletes with chorus as athletes with some too. And I have had an athlete with an Apple Watch apples. But funny though, because with the usability with CMF and using training peaks is a lot of those if it based workouts don't sink very well. And I know, Chris, you use a lot of if it based workouts, don't you? Speaker 1 Yes, yeah. So RPE, structured workouts and training peaks do not sink to Apple Watches. Speaker 2 Yeah. So that makes a little bit more difficult and may not, I don't use those. I do use them a lot, but it's not the sole thing that I use it for. So yeah, that can have an impact as well. Speaker 1 If any watch outside of those big three you mentioned was to sort of make the list in in a running realm, Apple would be sort of the only one really, isn't it? I mean, you've got like. Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, they are doing a better job. It is. It is quite good. I mean, the biggest thing for me too is Apple's trying to be a smart. Apple was a smart watch that connects with your phone and your life and gives you a whole lot of things. There is some little funnies like if you've got, if you've got the good Apple and you've got a, it's got its own SIM card, you can make calls without your phone. So you could run without your phone and still have that connectivity and safety, which is quite cool. You also have the ability to text a lot better from your Apple without your phone. I like to disconnect and I carry my phone anyway. So there are some advantage of the Apple, but I just don't think as a pure sports watch, they they cut the the mustard and and part of that's that battery life. Well, they have. I can manage. Speaker 1 One of their models. Speaker 2 They have a big changes so you pay for that as well. So you, if you're really going to get the the battery life out of it, you probably want to go to the Apple Watch Ultra, which is a bit of a misnomer because it's by nowhere near an ultra watch, but it's still you're still going to try struggle to get 18 hours of GPS life on it, which, you know, it can be a bit of a pain. And once again, don't take the advertised battery life as as being standard because there's so many variables that you can plug in. I mean, I can turn mine right down to a spot tracking mode on my Garmin and I can get, oh, crikey, 187 hours of GPS versus standard GPS full full monitoring, full capability. I'm getting about 57 hours. So you know, a huge difference, especially if you're doing multi day stuff. And I mean when I'm doing moldy day, I really don't want to have to carry a a battery bank or anything. Speaker 1 It's just another thing you forget, right? Oh shit, I didn't charge my phone. Oh, Betty. Speaker 2 And I mean, if you're doing a backyard as well, as long as you as long as you're lapping and for example, in 55 minutes you could plug your phone in for for a couple of minutes every lap, that gets a hang of a lot more life out of it. If you're doing moldy days and you are carrying a well just a big day of in and you are carrying a, a battery Bank of some description, you know when you stop for that, that 10 minute break at the top of the hill, just plug your plug, your watch and you'll be surprised how much charge at the bottom level it gets. I think most, most watches are charging to 80% and under, under sort of 40 minutes. And it's the it's the 80 to 100% that takes the time. Speaker 1 So one of the So I need to watch soon. I'm getting back into my training. I've got Coach Curley coaching me now. So I need to get a watch, otherwise she won't be able to see my training. And so one of the things I'm thinking about, you can help me choose a watch. One of the things I'm, you know, one of the key considerations for me is, yeah, I think battery life and maps because, you know, I like to go for missions. We obviously want battery life because I like to do 100 mile races and yeah, maps because I like to go and do missions in the hills and the mountains. It's a nice safety feature. So what are we looking at? Speaker 2 I mean, I think the best value for money for that long mission, big battery life, maps would be the Enduro from Garmin. Yeah, I think it's absolute fabulous watch does a hot, does everything you need and doesn't do some of the stuff that you don't need. It does maps awesome battery life like I think it's 60 hours of full GPS, which is pretty, pretty amazing. It's got solar, so if you're not running a lot, it's almost going to maintain battery life without, without needing charging, especially if you're at was quite a bit. So that that I think is what I would go gold standard for a long range watch without, without spending ridiculous money. They're cheaper than a a phoenix in the Garmin range, a little bit more expensive than the forerunner. I think it's a 975. They're up to now. Don't quote me on that. It might might still be the 955, but the 955 was probably the only one that's going to start coming with maps. I thought I would enjoy maps. Since I've upgraded my watch, I haven't had maps. I haven't used maps so it's a little bit funny how that works, but then I always navigate with a map or my phone so probably doesn't matter so much. Speaker 1 Like an actual map? Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm, I'm just a fan of always printing out a map of where I'm running, like a topo map and marking my route on it beginning. But that's that. That's a lifetime of reading maps. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 And I mean the watch. Even now with your phone, you know, you can use TOPO on your phone and it's pretty accurate, you know? Speaker 1 I find that fine if it's not raining, like if it's raining and you're egg and it's wet and then you're if you're in the mountains and you're got gloves on and it's cold then. Speaker 2 Yeah, but watch screen is also going to be tricky with that too, because then you have to use the buttons to navigate because the the screens don't like wet fingers and stuff as well. So yeah, it's not as, it's not as slick as you like it to be, but once again, the more you use it, the better off you get and, and then that's going to make a difference. But yeah, their Forerunner range is quite good. And then it's just deciding what at what part of the spectrum you're on there. I haven't seen some 2 maps, but I imagine theirs is pretty good. And then it's rugged. How much rug ability do you need in a watch? Like, you know, the cheaper Forerunners, cheaper chorus. I always feel like I'm going to break them. Speaker 1 Yeah, so that's the chorus. Speaker 2 Pastes and the yeah, the paste and then even though Suntu run, it's quite lightweight, whereas if you go into the, you know, the vertexes and the top end sunto and the topping gum and I mean they're absolute bulletproof. I'd be really scared about breaking an Apple Watch. Speaker 1 So the hardware, the actual watch itself is just a lot more solid and rugged it's going. Speaker 2 To hold up, yeah, I mean, I know now with my titanium case on my Garmin, I, I overspent, but only because I could, because I've got a good deal from Garmin as a through the shop, you know, it's, it's absolutely bulletproof, almost literally. And that's something I had that I can. Speaker 1 Just the watch itself being solid. Speaker 2 Yeah, just having the rug ability to do it. But you know, I take my watch into some pretty gnarly places and want it to work, you know, straps, straps another thing, but you can upgrade the straps aimless. There's great, there's great aftermarket non proprietary straps that that work really well. And you know, you can juice up a watch pretty cool by by changing the straps. So, you know, look wise, which is important to some people, you can do quite a bit as well. Speaker 1 So. Speaker 2 I think, I think if you look at usability, you know, it's the usability as an athlete, how you change screens, how you can manage the data that you see when you're running as a coach. It's about how easy it is for the to know that what the athletes seeing is what's what's being used is good. I think the adjustability that what's the ability to change screens to see what you're doing is important. And then there's price. Most of the entry level watches aren't too far apart from each other, But as you go up the spectrum, you know those little add on features, add on size, add on screen brightness, start becoming different. That's actually a good one screen brightness. There's a couple of different types of screens. There's a MIT screens and the the other flash bright screen. Me as an ultra runner and the mounds in the outdoor. I like the odd MIPS. I think they I can see them in all like conditions better, but those new screens, man, they're bright and they look sexy and it's pretty cool on your wrist. So it just depends what you're after from that. But they use more battery as well that the newer screens the old screen. Speaker 1 Brighter, easier to see what's on there. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. At a glance, you know, if you're not used to looking at your watch that bright just really pangs at you, whereas you know the older screens that don't use as much battery. So that's some of the reason why you can get better battery lifeout of some of the watches. Speaker 1 That would be quite an. Speaker 2 Important thing. Speaker 1 Because my eyesights, you know, I wear glasses. And so if I was to be running at night and a race and it's raining, then I wouldn't be wearing glasses. And then so being able to see the screen easily becomes more important. So I could see that being something that would be important to me. Leveraging Watch Data and the Role of Human vs. AI Coaching Yeah, absolutely. So what I recommend is go into a shop that's got the watches, proper watches on display. I only have dummy watches in my shop, but you go go to a shop that you can actually put them on. Ideally they're a great person working behind the counter and you can stand outside in the sun and see the differences. But you'll get an idea. And I think you're right, Chris, if you've got visibility problems, that's that's those newer broader screens are probably better. But the other thing to consider is how big that screen is too. Like I've got an athlete who's got quite a little wrist, but her sight's going and she wants a small watch for her wrist, but she can't, she's relatively new to running. And when she's running, she finds running and looking at her watch to try and keep pace really, really difficult. She we're actually going to upgrade her to a bigger watch very shortly and to give her that ability to adjust it. So there's one metric on the on the watch. Anyone time a bigger screen brighter so that she can just look at the watch simpler. And then the more like my watch at the expensive end that speakers really good. So my watch is telling me over pace, over heart rate, what my next interval is about to be. So that that can sort of mitigate some of the visibility issues as well. Speaker 1 Sorry, what did you say? It's the speaker. Speaker 2 Yeah. So my my speaker while I'm running, I can hear quite clearly. So it will tell me. Speaker 1 Speakers. Speaker 2 Yeah, tell me overpace. If I'm running a workout, this program, it will tell me just prior to the new interval will tell me what my next interval is. Next interval is 3 kilometers at 4:45, you know, so I can always prepare myself for that. And then while I'm running along at the end of the interval, you know, the beat down or, or beat before the start of and it was very audible and very clear. So that's quite cool. Speaker 1 So do you mean it's actually speaking? Speaker 2 Yes. Speaker 1 Oh wow. Speaker 2 Actually I'm I've. Speaker 1 Been out of the game? I've been out of the game for some time, folks. Speaker 2 I mean, I can take calls on my watch too via I still need my phone present, but if I'm running along I can actually answer a call on my watch and say hey, I'll give you a ring back in 10 minutes when I've finished my interval. Or I don't necessarily need to dig into my pack to to get anything. Now admittedly I have mine set so that the only person who's who will ring through to my my watch is my wife. But even then, sometimes it's like she'll ring me in the middle of an interval and at least I can sort of. Speaker 1 I'm sorry, I'm doing 345 pace right now. Can't talk. Yeah. Speaker 2 Can't stop must done. Yes, I mean, there's there is a whole lot to consider, but I think the shorten to all of it is the the basic watches do a really good job and there's an entry level they're more than enough to get you started and for us to coach you via. Then you can add things like a heart rate monitor or arm strap. If you think that that's not giving you enough. And if you put a relatively small amount of money down first, then in three years time, when you're starting to take running seriously at the next level, it's, you know, that's when you upgrade your watch to something that that does more for you. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, especially if you're getting into that ultra space A or overnight stuff and. Speaker 2 Yeah, that's that's when that's when the the more expensive watches is just going to do a better job. I would stay away from Apple as a runner just because that they're not quite there yet. They don't do a lot of the functions that that we sort of expect. It's a lot more bling. Probably fine if you're just a gym monkey and running on the No, they actually Apple are really poor on a treadmill. That's another good point. Yeah, but it won't be long before treadmills are all Bluetooth to your watch anyway, so it probably doesn't matter. Garments I know is very good on a treadmill, especially if you've got a heart rate strap on. It's very accurate because of the potentiometers. So it uses the potentiometers to pick up pace rather than anything else. So yeah, but once again, that's a bit more techo. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, if you're using a Garmin on a treadmill, yeah. How does, how does that work? So. Speaker 2 You can do it two ways. You can just either go off the Garmin and use its potentiometers to work out how far you're running. So basically it uses your average outdoor stride and then matches that cadence and comes up with a distance. It's really good, except we all run very differently on a treadmill and then as we adjust place it changes. The other way you can do it is use the potentiometer in, you know, like a chest strap that will measure all that movement and will work out how far you've run. Or you can calibrate it to the treadmill after run. So you record your run on your watch and you push, stop, push, stop on the treadmill, and then it'll give you the option to adjust the distance on the watch. The reality is, to me as a coach, if I'm getting someone to run on a treadmill, I'm not too worried about a lot of the data. Heart rate's probably the most important thing for me. And the rest of intervals like you do an interval for X amount of time at X, if it's pace, heart rate doesn't really matter. How did you, how did you work out for that length of time? What did your heart rate do? Was it any decoupling? And you've done 5 efforts effort, you know, or five if it's, it's slow, if it what it doesn't really matter. So we can get to and around the actual, of the actual distance. I think most endurance runners realise very quickly that distance is a really poor measure of the effectiveness of a workout. Time on feet is a primary sort of metric for me. So, you know, there's, there's pros and cons. But yeah, definitely a Garmin will work better than an Apple on a treadmill in my opinion. Speaker 1 Yeah, because we had a guy recently, didn't we? He was like earlier part of his journey training as a first marathon. I'm getting his first watch and he's like, I really want to get an Apple because it syncs with my phone. And it's like, yeah, cool, Like you could do that. But there's probably a good chance in like 3 months time once you're into your running or deeper into your training you're going to be like oh damn it sure go to Garmin. Speaker 2 And if you're dropping it there, I don't know what an Apple Watch is worth now, but I'd say it must be based models, probably 900. And then you go up to that. I don't know. But if you really wanted the Apple for your work and function and life, I would be tempted to then just peer that with a cheap Garmin 70 that literally goes on your wrist when you go running and you just do all your running on your Garmin and and and then Apple the rest of the time. That that way while you're running your apples charging and then you can maybe leave it on overnight and get some data. I mean, that's the other thing. As a coach, I like seeing data that the, for example, garments give you with sleep scores, HIV recovery metrics. It's not. I don't look at any one of them in in isolation. But if I'm seeing an athlete stunt to Trump struggle, his heart rate was out the gate. The performance has been a little bit dodgy for the last few days. I'll go in and look deeper at that data and see if I can see what's going on and if they're wearing their wearable all night all the time. It gives me some really good insight into what might be going on so that I can start checking some boxes or or or discounting some things. Speaker 1 Yeah, especially the HIV becomes quite important in those instances, eh? Speaker 2 Yeah. And I mean, I, I look at my HIV and know exactly when I'm about to get crook and so then I can do things to mitigate that. Conventions. Yeah, yeah, get ahead of the curve. So and HIV is awesome. You know, the recovery stats via HIV and all those are really, really nice. And I think as an athlete, if you, if you see your your VO2 Max trending in the right way, your hill, your hill score trending in the right way, you notice that your time to recovery is starting to reduce your resting heart rates not is getting lower. All of those little things, they're cool little metrics that just give us a little bit of but a self-confidence that we're heading in the right direction. And, and obviously we use those as coaches, but as an individual, sometimes that that stuffs can be really, really powerful. Speaker 1 Yeah, can be negative though, too, eh, like if someone is self training. Yeah. And that's where having a coach can be really handy. Like in those instances just to, you know, you sort of outsourcing the interpretation of that data like, oh, I don't. Speaker 2 Worry about that. It's a really good discussions up at Kings with a few coaches and quite a few athletes too, about about AI and coaching and and how they interact with athletes and how athletes interact with them. Some really interesting discussions. But but quite often there was that. There was that simple thing. If if we aren't tracking and we aren't knowing what our athletes up to, then it's really hard to, to get a positive grip as a coach. And vice versa, if you're telling AI that your training is going in One Direction and you're not giving it all the metrics, AI is going to push rubbish back at you. So I, I think AI has a place in the world for someone who's couched to 5K, who's just trying the hardest to get to get moving. But if you want any level of, of coaching every, any level of real performance, I think AI is just not going to do it for you. I've been running an experiment lately with myself using an AI platform and it seems to be tracking really well to what I've programmed for myself. What it doesn't do though is it doesn't take my life into account. Doesn't take an account that I just took 10 hours in a car driving back from Kings. Doesn't take into account that I've done 4 hours of firewood on a Sunday. It doesn't. So it doesn't reflect any of that stuff. And I'm probably making it work because I'm, I know what questions to ask and I know what information to give as far as what's going on. So, you know, if you're a very experienced athlete, I think you could probably use AI to really a really good advantage. If you're a very new athlete and are just looking at the basics and just getting out and moving for 35 minutes a day, AI is probably going to track OK for you. But if you're anywhere on the bell curve, you know, outside that middle range, or you've got something that's making you adapt very differently to what AI can dig, then you know, you really don't need a real coach. Speaker 1 Yeah, and there's nothing like having your coach message you and saying how are you, mate? How's your day? How was that workout you did today? How did it feel, you know? Yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah, and I'd struggle, I would struggle with AI holding me to account to what I'm doing. And so I'm sure there's lots of other people like that too. That's it's very hard to put off a human when they actually ask you a question. Speaker 1 Yeah, it's just that people have accountability too. Like I've engaged like I said before clearly to coach me and yeah, a lot of it for me is just that accountability like you know and not having to think at all like so that's the other thing about having a coach, right. I'm not having to any information. She is going to think about me and think about the how to get me to UTA next year, all the periodize my training, the steps to get there, the lead up events, what I'm doing week to week. That's, that's her. But then, so that's that big thing. And then it's the accountability. She's going to put stuff in my training peaks and all I've got to do is look at my training peaks and I go, cool, I've got to do this one hour easy run today or maybe it's 4 by 1K or whatever and I just go, cool, that's what Carolyn's got for me. I'm going to go and do that and then she's going to check to see if I've done it. I'm going to put feedback in there going cool, that was good, feel good today. Everything's fine. Or maybe it's not or I was tired today or whatever. And she's going to look at that and she's going to reply, you know, a good job. Or if I'm tired or rundown, she'll be like, OK, we'll dial back tomorrow or have a rest day. And you know, there's all that, all that stuff and. The Indispensable Value of Human Coaching and Sweat Testing And I think I think a good coach also takes the next step like, you know, I I need to know what's happening in my athletes lives so that I know how to judge what training I'm putting them under. I need to know what's happening in their lives. So as we approach race day, I'm saying the right things that are going to either getting them GD up or calmed down. Sometimes it's and with an athlete recently I spent a lot of time and that's three weeks prior. Like where are we at with our mindset training? What are we doing? Are we doing any psychological skills training? Are we what mentors have we got lined up to to focus on when life gets hard? What are the five things that you think are going to go wrong in the race and how are we going to manage those? And having the knowledge and the depth to dig out from real world experience and from a number of athletes experience to how we might manage some of those situations. So that sort of stuff becomes critical too. And even post race, you know, there were a number of athletes at King's that the day didn't go to plan and a couple of good my friends that didn't go to plan. And even though they were my friends and not my athletes, you know, I was in their tent giving them the brief afterwards, reminding them that the self worth does not rely on on them performing today. It's not their a race. You know, lots of people out there were having fun and enjoyed your company. We we failed. We learned we picked up some stuff that might matter when we go to our big race. So those those post race conversations are just as important as a coach. And then and also making sure that the athletes not doing too much post activity. Why are you why are you trying to get out for a run? It's only week 1 and you've just run 150K, you know, maybe. Speaker 1 The thing? Speaker 2 Is to recover and not to push. So those those things are really, really important. Absolutely. Speaker 1 Couldn't agree more. Yeah, there's so much life coaching involved with run coaching, right? Speaker 2 There's a bit of life, it's all life and and some coaches do it to to to a bigger degree and some coaches do it to a lesser degree. I like the way we do it with CMF. Speaker 1 Couldn't agree more. Speaker 2 I've talked to all of our coaches about how they like to coach and I think we're all very similar in the amount of contact and and things that we we have with our athletes. So I think that's really awesome. Speaker 1 Personal touch, a human to human speaking. Speaker 2 Of what our other coaches are up to too. Hannah's getting salt testing off the ground and using a few of us CMF coaches to deliver that sweat testing on her behalf, which is pretty cool. Speaker 1 Yeah, can't wait. So I think most of us will be doing it once we get it all rolled out. So you're off the ground had had your training? Yeah. Speaker 2 I, I was hopefully start with my first few next Wednesday. So that's going to be fun. Lots of interest. It'll be interesting to see what interest turns into action. But I think as a endurance athlete, you can't account for what you don't measure. And if we can measure the stuff and know that we're doing the right thing. But, you know, I think that's a massive performance game. Yeah, it's a simple. Speaker 1 Leave at a pool really, isn't it? Yeah, because getting your sodium levels right or getting that insight is going to help you fuel better, which is going to help your YEAH performance. Speaker 2 Yeah. And I think, I think a lot of people forget that sodium is really easy to dial. But once you've got that dialed, then you can work out what, what else is going on. You know, you've taken a, you've taken an unknown variable and making it known. And then you know, you can focus on how much fluid do I need to take to, to deal with X amount of carbon take. There's just so many things stem from it that make running distance a lot easier in my view. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Can't wait to get into that more. Yeah. So what have you learnt so far about the sort of testing mechanism? How does it work? Like what can folks experience when they come and get sweat tested? Speaker 2 I think the test is going to take about an hour because we're going to do sweat volume at no sweat rate at the same time as doing the the sodium test. Now you can do sweat rate test by yourself all the time, but it makes sense to combine the two together. So an hour just makes that math easy, easy. But essentially it's, it's come to us. Get on the scales, have a have a non start weight, go for a warm up, get sweaty start to get that, that body moving. Then come back, put some, put some patches on and we're going to put patches on 4 parts of the body. So not just one spot, put those patches on. There's a bit of a process that cleaning and tidying make sure that we're we're not introducing any unknowns and then or contamination and then we go for a run. We finish that run, we jump on the scales. So that gives us how much sweat we've volume we've lost. So when you're. Speaker 1 Talking for a run, we're just an easy run. Speaker 2 I, I think for my view, as long as they're working hard enough to get some sweater, I think depending on the athlete, like if someone really wants to dial in their, their 201K pace, then let's do it AT21K pace at race pace. Or you know, close to if someone's going to do an ultra marathon or a backyard, let's do a backyard loop. It's similar to I think that's the advantage of the system we're using is we can get it as similar to our race demands as we possibly can and sort of count a few things at the same time. Yes, and then? Speaker 1 You're training for Yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah, Yeah. You know the temperature is going to have a big impact on sweat, right? But it's not, you know, the sweat, the sodium contents going to be fairly, fairly within margins once we've got it. And then you come back from the run, take jump back on the scales to measure that, take all the patches off and basically run a number of tests on those patches and, and take an average of that. And then we put that number into the into an app on our phone or you put it into that app on your phone and that gets sent to Hannah. She does her magic. And then you get sent a document that says this is your sweat rate, this is your sodium content. And there's a few other tools that she's posting out with that around how you can manage that sodium intake and and management and race type environments. Yes, So it's a pretty cool process. I, I think it's worth the money. It it pretty much from the sodium is is for most people will be a one and done. But I think the more serious you want to take as an athlete, it's probably worth doing that again at checking sort of pretty close to race day just to make sure that everything's still tracking correctly. But more importantly for most athletes is doing that sweat test. The sweat right test as often as you can, understand what happens in different environments so that then you can manage that volume intake to sodium once race day hits. Speaker 1 Awesome. Sounds great. I'm going to be getting my training soon from Hannah. I'm I'm the next cab off the rank. Speaker 2 Next cab off the rank it's cool and I mean I'm I'm doing a lot with myself and my wife too. So if those who don't know, my wife's a, a budding triathlete, I'm heading to do her first fall in Germany next year. So you know, she's training 1516 hours a week as well. So I'll be learning a little bit more by dialling in and off here. And I think that's the other, the other cool thing as a coach, it adds another dimension to my knowledge base. As I went about learning how to conduct the tests, I'm obviously learning about why I'm conducting the tests. All the other advantages that gives me as a coach to understand yet another aspect of our our environmental conditions and our body. So yeah, I think it's really important to keep learning and this is just another string to that bow. Speaker 1 Always learning to do, isn't it? Embracing Lifelong Running, Aging, and Smart Goal Setting Ways more to delve into Pretty pretty awesome, eh? Speaker 2 I've just got to avoid going down big rabbit holes but it's OK. Speaker 1 Well, as you've said before, we go down rabbit holes so you don't have to. Speaker 2 That's correct, yeah. Speaker 1 I like that, Tim. I like that, you know, turn it first. Speaker 2 Yeah, so that's sort of we were at at this part of the world. Obviously personally there's some some some goals to be set, some missions to get underway, some some training to to fix a dodgy back and get get back moving to where I want to be. We've got Blue Lakes going to be fast approaching, then I've got Satellite Champs and River Run that I'm looking after from a cool event director sort of type standpoint system event director, and then some other missions. Starting up is a car worker challenge going to start up again in December, which I'm pretty excited about. I'll be on the team today. Speaker 1 What's his name? Andrew McCrory. Speaker 2 'S getting that off the ground as a fundraiser, which so, yeah, so that's going to be awesome. And then, you know, there's a few other fundraisers and stuff along the way that are worth digging into as well. I mean, if we can use our our running life to raise money for people, that's I think it's pretty cool. So that's happening December, then we get into busy race period with January, February, victor time and then hopefully Kings is going to happen again next year and we can get amongst that as well. Speaker 1 It just all keeps rolling. Speaker 2 It just doesn't stop. But you know, the reinforcement in that if we want to build a body that's going to last as long as mine's trying to last, we've got to do all the right things, right. We've got to be sensible about our training. We've got to make sure that we build enough robustness in our body. We've got to keep our flexibility going. And I'm, I'm 50 now. It's not nothing. Nothing comes easy. I take nothing for granted, but I want to be a lifelong runner, so doing things smart, following a process, trusting that process I think is really important. Speaker 1 Yeah, health. And I've noticed changes. I'm 44 now. I've noticed changes in the last 6 to 12 months just in my body and stuff. Yeah. So that's part of my motivation at the moment of also being like, oh, don't didn't like where a couple of little things were going there. I'll need to, you know, give myself a kick up the butt and because I sort of spent the last year prioritizing some work things and that, you know, work outside of CMF and, and that. Speaker 2 I think it's easy to look back and go, I used to be able to do this. That'll be fine. I'll get I'll get myself back there. You know, I can, I can train, I can get, I can run myself fit in six weeks and go and do something epic. Well, you put probably could do that at 20, but in your late 40s, in your 50s, nothing, nothing comes easy. And you've got to work hard and and. Speaker 1 Yeah, be more patient to a building back and stuff and just take your time. Yeah, take a bit longer and honour that recovery time and all that. Speaker 2 Absolutely. But also getting things like what gear you know you're getting your shoes, right? Your shoes that you used to be able to run fast and when you're 20 and not shoes that you probably need when you're 50. The you know, you know, I've always been, this is anecdotally, but I've always been a barefoot runner. Well, that's cool and it's great when your body can handle it. But as we age, maybe we need to look at what we're doing. So maybe a little bit less running and barefoot, but staying in some zero drop shoes with some cushion, maybe training in in five fingers, but maybe racing and something that's flat, but with a bit of protection and cushion and stability. Maybe thinking about our long run needs to be a bit more protective. So maybe not a big flash soft shoe for long distance run, but something that's more stable and going to look after our our knee and hip joints in the long term. So thanks, Matt, about what we're preparing for and how we're moving and keeping our goals in check too. Like I say to a lot of people, you know, what I do to my body is probably not healthy. I'm pushing big distances, I'm getting big mileage, I'm pretty demanding on my body and that can go peer shaped really quick. So if you really are running for fitness and well-being and health, then maybe big audacious goals, the thing that you should be seeing, but maybe good solid health goals that I, for example, maybe you just want to be fit enough that if a friend says come and run 20K with me, you can go and do it. Or maybe it's I want to be fit and healthy enough so that I can move well, I can look after my children or grandchildren and stay, you know, relatively aerobically fit as a better goal. And if that means that you can then go out and run 50K at Tapo, then that's cool. But maybe, you know, get those goals in the right space and for your time of life and what's going on in your life, You know, if you're a busy, young, budding Dr. in the middle of study, your running is probably going to be more about mental health and performance and. Yeah. And. Speaker 1 That's totally fine too. I can always be on this and competition and stuff. Speaker 2 There's just different periods of life. Speaker 1 Yeah, dial it back and change the focus of it. Speaker 2 And I've got a couple of athletes that they run purely for mental health and they need it for their mental health. And that's great. And then because of that, they can then go and achieve some outrageous stuff. But I do have those conversations with athletes quite a bit about what's what are our goals, what's realistic? Let's not get too focused. And I know you've done this with me, Chris. So it's sort of it's turning the turning the spoils. But turn up to race day with a, with a big outrageous goal that you haven't trained appropriately for. Is not, is not asking for success, That's asking for failure. So re evaluating a couple of three weeks out from race day, how's our training gone? What, what condition are we actually in? You know, is it reasonable for us to to keep pushing for that goal or do we need to adjust it in time and distance or something that makes it more more realistic and more achievable. I'm a sort of person who sets a big goal, strives for if I miss out, it doesn't break me. I'm more worried about the process. But some other people struggle massively if they don't achieve a goal. So therefore the the goal setting has to be a little bit more risk adverse. Oh sorry, less risk adverse then more. Speaker 1 Yeah, ABC's things like that. Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, Chris, we've we've now segued well off what we wanted to talk about. We've probably raised just as many questions as answers, probably. Speaker 1 Leave it here, I've got to go and do. Speaker 2 A bus run, we're always for those, those chats, you know someone wants to chat about a watch or whatever, give us a ring either at work or at home and we can have a little bit of a chat about those offline, but I think we've covered most of the basics so. Speaker 1 Yeah, and so people can find you at Shoe Science, Havelock North. Speaker 2 Yeah, that's correct. Speaker 1 And you'll be in there most days. Wednesday's your day off. That's why we're talking. Speaker 2 Yeah, or, or they can hit me up on on DME on Instagram or or Facebook. More than happy just to keep keep talking about stuff and passing on as much knowledge as we can. Speaker 1 Now. Awesome man. Well, thanks for coming. Hope folks enjoyed our little bit of watch talk and a little bit of everything talk Yarns with Kendall. Eventually the title, we'll put that as the title of the podcast can be Yarns with Kendall. That's good though, mate. Good day. It's the good stuff. But of all. Speaker 2 Sorts guys hope everyone has a good next few weeks leading into the tough time of winter and their training. Keep stuck in. Consistency is more important than just about anything else, and discipline beats motivation. Speaker 1 Nice. Well said.