Was "Me Too" Successful?

(upbeat music) - Hello, and welcome to another episode of Based News Network. My name is Sophie, aka Jonavarca, and I'm here with Kaya, aka punk revolution now. Say hi, Kaya. - Hi, Sophie. - What's up? - Well-- - Nice day, New York. - Nice day, New York. - It's a bad day, I'm any apples today, rainy. - It's beautiful today, in New York. - Well, I think that represents what it's like to be a man, and the rain represents what it's like to be a woman. It's just kidding. - No comments, but I respect whatever you have to say on this subject. (laughs) - I'm just kidding. Trying to, I always try to, like, think of a segue into the topic, and always successful. Anyway, today I was feeling really black-pilled about being a woman, and I wanted to talk about Harvey Weinstein's charges being overturned, and what that means for the legacy of me too. And I kind of just want to do a retrospective on that, and talk about what impacts have we seen? Is it still, you know, has it brought about reactionary backlash? Do I benefit from, I don't know, I just, I kind of want to talk about it in general, and yeah, just have a chill combo about that. - I am down, I, hmm, yeah, this whole Harvey Weinstein, with this, you know, convictions being overturned, the situation, you know, I think, you know, for my understanding, he's going to end up, like, it's going to be another court battle. It's not like he's found not guilty, but yeah, it just means he needs a retrial. - Yeah, but I have to say, it's very upsetting, just, I mean, for a million reasons. Obviously, it's just like, it's been known. - Yeah, like, it's not a question. - It's not a question if you did it or not. Like, this is like, just like, this is what happens when you have so much money, you can literally just have a huge army of lawyers to find every single little legal technicality they can. - Yeah. - To keep you out of jail. - And it almost seems like the reason it got overturned, the reason it got overturned was that the prosecution brought up other women, three other women to testify that Weinstein had assaulted them, even though their allegations were in a part of the criminal charges against him. So they had three additional people testify against him, even though they weren't pressing charges against him. And because of that, they found that the judge was at a fault there and that he should have a retrial. And I can see like, okay, because of this legal technicality, therefore he is entitled to a retrial, whatever. But the reason he's getting a retrial is literally because there were more women. Like it literally just proves that he's guilty. You know what I mean? Like the reason his charges got overturned is because additional women testified against him. - Yeah, yeah, it's really strange. Like obviously, I know there are rules in place and things have to be fair for everybody. And even people who've committed egregious crimes, you know, need to be treated equally under the law, blah, blah. I think that's all good and important. But it all definitely feels like quite a farce given that it's like one of those situations like we know what's going on. You know, we all know what's going on. - Like it's very obvious. - It's so obvious, this is all, you know. And there's so many cases too where there's so many people who are put in jail and you know, God knows where maybe like some court system in Mississippi or whatever and they obviously don't have the same, you know, army of lawyers to do the due diligence that they deserve. So it's a very strange situation where like on the one hand, you could say, oh, well Harvey Weinstein, you know, the law trees, everyone equally, which means because he didn't have a fair trial initially, he gets to do it again or whatever. But actually like in my opinion, this whole situation is just another representation of how the law doesn't treat everybody equally. - Yeah, for real. So like regardless of this loophole, this technicality, I was kind of thinking like, okay, how's the mana sphere going to react to this? And are they going to see it as justice? And I'm guessing like, look, is there gonna be more reactionary pushback to women's sexual assault reporting? - Hmm, well, I guess from my perspective, I have not seen really any very much any men, you know, really react to this story at all for me. - Yeah, I don't really like follow them. So, but I will say, I'm just, yeah, in my echo chamber. - Well, every single time there was a story about rape or sexual assault and like a man facing any justice being sent to jail or whatever for any of it, like pretty much guaranteed, there's gonna be replies from men who are saying that like the women are lying and it's like, you know, like I guess there's, you know, a lot of like right wing in cell, he kind of guys who think there's like always, it's always a conspiracy theory. And I'm sure with this story, I'm sure if you go on Twitter and look up some news articles you'll see in the replies, like there are probably a few guys who are like, hmm, I guess he was innocent the entire time and that the me too frenzy just made, you know, was biased because of the media or something, you know what I mean? - Yeah, I'm sure that's what's gonna happen. I don't know, I think you and I've talked about this before, like, was the me too movement actually successful. I know we've had this conversation before, you know, and I thought about it and I was doing some research to see like, is there actual like a demonstrable proof that it made a positive impact and it turns out that there is. - Ooh. - So, from a, I got this information from Yale News, it's Yale's news publication and they're citing a study by doctoral candidates in Yale's economic department. They published a paper showing that me too caused a 7% increase in sex crimes reporting in the United States from October to December 2017. So, I mean, that's just that window, but it did have a small impact. And I do think like, in my experience, like, I don't know, I feel like I have really felt, it's a fox, at least like, I don't know. Like, I don't know if the tangible aspects of this are here, but I definitely think that people are more willing to publicly talk about sexual assault experiences than like accuse rape like people who perpetrated those crimes like more openly like, I think I do see that online more. Like, remember that Andrew Callahan thing? - Yes, I do remember that. - I don't know, like, I think, I think like, I felt the effects of it, at least in the discourse, but I don't know about like, I wish I had some more like, data that, 'cause it's been seven years, you know? - Yeah, well, this is one of the, this is an interesting thing because it's definitely something I've felt a lot about too. And I think there's a couple of things. One, is it's always so hard to know how much does internet discourse actually translate to how things are actually functioning in real life because there's so many times where-- - This is the question. - Yeah. - I'm sorry, go ahead. I was just gonna see. I say this is the question that I have in my head every day. - Yeah, that's basically that. There's so many times where you see on Twitter or wherever Instagram, it seems like everybody feels really strongly about one thing, and then you look at public opinion polls, and then you realize this is actually not really how a lot of people feel. It happens all the time. And obviously you go to real life, go to class, go to work wherever you go, and people you'll see, they don't know. They don't know. - They don't know what the word "manosphere" is. - They don't know what memes are. - Thank God. - So, anyway, so that's one thing, which is like how much sugar reflection is the internet to real life. And too, I just would imagine given the sensitivity of this topic, it's probably pretty hard to get accurate data on assault, and also seeing an uptick in sexual assaults reported, like let's say hypothetically, that's what the data shows. That might be actually a good thing, 'cause that might mean that more women are reporting things, or maybe it's a bad thing, 'cause maybe it means there's more sexual assaults happening. - I feel like that's not what it is. - Yeah, no, I doubt it. I doubt it's this, I doubt that there's that. But just saying, it is a bit of a tricky, inherently tricky thing. And the portion of women who actually end up reporting sexual assault is like extremely low. I think it's very low. - Yeah, you know, I definitely think, unfortunately, given the nature of the crime, and given that it's like gonna be something that's very hard to prove in court usually. - Yeah, you know. - I think unfortunately, that's a whole other conversation about women coming forward with these accusations. But I think, you know, I think it's really critical that given we can't rely on the legal system as we've seen with Harvey Weinstein, like there is just like, at the very least, there needs to be a cultural shift. Where, you know, and I think that's what me too is really about, it's like a cultural shift where, you know, the culture is women are gonna put their foot down and say, like, this has been going on too long and we're all just being quiet about it, and we're gonna change that. And I do think it's been changed. I do think it's been changed. Cult, I think the culture, the culture has changed for sure. - As a man, like, do you feel like you've sort of experienced that change, like culturally? I don't mean like to your personal behavior beliefs. I mean, like, as a man, when you're in like male spaces or situations like that, do you feel the effects of it in any way? - Absolutely, absolutely. And it's really hard to, it's really hard to, you know, it's hard to say, because it's like one, I only have my own bubble of friends and anecdotal evidence. - That's true. - And you know, maybe the internet too, like, I don't know. - Well, I would just say, like, the norm for decades and decades was basically like a man who was interested in pursuing sex with the woman. You know, like, if he wants that, then he can be as persistent as he wants. And even if she's saying, no, you know, maybe if you really persist, maybe things will work out for you. And, you know, if there is a story about like a sexual assault, like you hear, you know, like, like this is how it was, like this is how it was like in the past. And like up to very recently and probably still many places, like this is how the culture is, is like, like I remember going on Reddit in like the early 2010s and like a lot of very popular threads and posts and subreddits that I would see floating around were literally like, seduction advice threads and subreddits for men. - Oh my god, wait, wait, wait, wait. - Question, was this like that was, you know, remember the era and it's probably still exists but like the pick up artist type guys that would give advice? Was that what it was or was it different? - It was that crossover. - It was like, it was like, it was basically like that, but it was like kind of like more, you know, like Reddit communities literally based on like this. And like they, you know, they presented it as like, this is gonna help you find a girlfriend and get laid and be a more confident man. But like, if you just look at what they were saying, you know, this was like a breeding ground for like rapists, you know what I mean? Like their advice, their advice is literally like treat a woman poorly because it's gonna make her insecure and then persistently to have sex with her. It's like, okay, like that's manipulation in order to like have sex with someone who's not enthusiastic about having sex with you, you know what I mean? Like that's like, that's how it was. And you know, I'm sure you know. - So that's gonna way, I feel like that's just been repackaged now as like looks maxing, like Andrew Tate. Like these like, like grind set masculinity, coaching people. - Oh no, it definitely still exists. - It's still here, but I, I would argue it's even more misogynistic now. - Yeah, I think so, but I would say so, and my perspective, like Andrew, the Andrew Tate, you know, misogynist stuff, it's super, super popular for sure. No doubt about it. But I would say like that is like definitively like right wing coated. While in the past, it wasn't about right wing or left wing. It was just like, if you're a man, this is how it is. Like it went from like, like now it's like, most people can recognize, not, I don't want to say most, but a lot of people, a lot of men can recognize that Andrew Tate and that kind of breed of, you know, that philosophy is toxic and misogynistic and shitty and rapey. And beforehand, like literally just a decade ago or two decades ago, it was like that philosophy was yes, it was like maybe a little bit more conservative in a sense, but it was also just like, like, that's just how it was. Does that make sense? - Yeah, yeah, no, I know what you mean. I don't know, I definitely think it still exists and you're right that it is very right wing coated, but maybe the right is growing. - Hmm, it's interesting. - Among men. Like, like I found this article from Reckon and it's citing this report. It's a consumer report from foresight factory. So if you're not aware, I've worked with a lot of consumer reports in school. It's like, the reason it's a consumer report is like, there's like a lot of research agencies do research on consumers to find out like attitudes so that like they can better advertise to them. It's kind of dumb, but anyway. That's why it's a consumer report. Anyway, in this consumer report, they asked people if feminism is negative for society and according to the report, one fifth of Americans agreed with that statement that feminism is negative for society. - One fifth? - Yeah, so that's like about 20%. - To me, that sounds quite low. I would have guessed. I mean, I would have guessed like the majority of people would agree with that. - You think feminism is negative for society? - I mean, I don't look, I would say for sure. I would say for sure like a few decades ago that would definitely be most people would agree with that. - You know, you're right, like I'm sure it's better, but something that I find concerning though is that 64%, okay, so 64% of anti-feminist are male, that's not surprising. 26% are between the ages of 16 and 34. So they're young. - Well, I'm trying to think about this. So the thing with this data point is that it is very interesting. I just wish that it was like, there was like, we could get kind of these similar opinions. - Definitely problematic. It's definitely problematic data, but. - Well, I would just like to see, 'cause I feel like there's a good chance that if you go back a decade or two decades or three decades that like, I feel like younger men are probably more likely to be anti-feminist in general, because I feel like younger men are more likely to be like sexually frustrated and single, you know what I mean? - Yes, but I feel like we sort of like have this hope that younger people are more progressive, like that younger men are, you know, they are going, they went through out of lessons during the Me Too movement. They live in a supposedly more progressive society, maybe that, you know, Like maybe they would be less likely to maybe that figure shouldn't in theory wouldn't be as high if that were true Hmm, so I have so I have a I don't know like there's data like this is obviously like Sorry, it is fucking guy. It's fucking patriarchy. Yeah, man, stop being toxic. All right, uh, I have a theory. I have a theory. All right, let me just give it. Let me say so so we got so my guess is that That left wing men left wing young men have gotten better with this issue and right wing young men have gotten worse with this issue Like I'm guessing it's been like polarization basically You know, yeah, I don't know. I feel like a lot of left wing men are really misogynistic though True that's for sure true like they both are I don't know it's probably you're right though that I'm sure it's not Great on the right. I'm sure it's way worse, but Well, you know If young men are mad that like they're getting called out like that we live in a culture that calls out men more first like sexual Assault or whatever then they They need they then to boohoo. Yeah, well at the same time though, like I can't mean I'm a man like you're a woman. This mother fucker This that guy is literally that guy is literally listening to Andrew Tate riding his motorcycle around I bet he probably is That's I mean those are the people honestly those are the people who listen to to Andrew Tate probably Yeah, I actually don't know I have no clue. There's a correlation between motorcycles and I mean probably no one will ever study that, but I can believe in look I know some very chill left-wing guys who ride motorcycles and some very not chill right-wing guys who who ride motorcycles So I'm sticking with my folders. You have it here folks. That's my theories. Those are my theories. Thank you Um Well, I guess um I don't know it's so hard because I'm a man But I would say but my honest perspective is that this is an issue where Things all things considered have improved from me to the me to was a net positive and that where I agree Where we're making progress and honestly, I think maybe the reason I feel that way is because I feel like sadly a lot of the progress needed To like improve to like kind of like take to dismantle patriarchy A lot of that progress is literally like a lot of the barriers to progress is literally needing Men to change. Like you've seen those infographics that are like Don't say that woman was wearing a short you know skirt too short instead of say Men don't that does you know seeing this short skirt doesn't give you permission to sexually assault someone. Like it's like men need to change their behavior to be less Yeah, shitty rather than woman needing to like tiptoe around men because they're afraid How does that how do we do that without making like these like reactionary men even more mad? This is something I've been thinking a lot about because I think it applies to so many issues like for example like the civil rights movement you know like You know, I think we could easily say like oh, you know with Martin Luther King Jr You know his popularity Created like a racist backlash and Martin Luther King Jr. got assassinated and that was horrible And it's true. You know, it is there is there is like there is some truth to that there was like a reactionary backlash to the civil rights movement But you wouldn't say therefore we shouldn't have had the civil rights movement, you know what I mean it's good point like I feel like I don't know why like I think I personally need to stop worrying as much about reactionaries and think more about Like I don't know like they don't deserve to be feel comfortable And I like I honest like I don't know like I don't even care Or maybe I shouldn't care how they're going to react Because that's only like limiting us. I don't know The perpetual debate now yeah exactly about I don't know I am no expert on anything other than just being a woman But I don't know I think I feel like things feel a lot Shittier It's so hard. It's so hard. I do feel um I do feel like things are Shittie right now Across a lot of different things I feel like being a woman sucks right now like I don't know if it's like I was thinking like I felt so much more optimistic about women's rights Like five years ago versus how I feel now, but I don't know if it's just that I'm older and I have a better understanding of the world you know But I mean five years ago like Roe v. Wade wasn't overturned And you know it doesn't like Roe v. Wade doesn't really affect me personally, but um I don't know like It's just just seeing my my sex you know like my like My the women like just seem you know women being um Disrespected and and uh degraded like like this is really hard to watch I guess I can't help it feel like pessimistic about it Hmm yeah, I got you It's actually crazy. Did you look at that plan parent hood map? I sent you I'm gonna I did not I'm gonna open it right now like I'm opening it right out to you like look at look at this map So for the listeners, this is a map of wear abortion This is like like accessible versus eliminated or restricted If you look at this map and maybe I don't know I can link it in the description But if you look at this map is very like like there's so many states that Essentially have eliminated abortion Or have serious restrictions look at this I'm looking at this map right now and I have to say I did I did not realize it was this fucking bad Yeah, it's really bad. So there are let me count one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteen I believe 14 states that have essentially eliminated abortion access That's like a lot and then if you count the rest one two three four five six seven eight Nine ten eleven. I don't know. I can't count but anyway like a lot of them have like some restrictions Minnesota has Accessible abortion. That's great. But our neighbors are very bad North Dakota South Dakota eliminated Wisconsin There's some restrictions. So Yeah, it's scary For you know women who are affected by this Um, I don't know. I can't imagine how scary this would be for you know some some women Hmm terrible terrible. I remember when um I was in high school And Obama was president and I remember thinking like You know If abortion ever becomes illegal in the United States To me that might be my red line where I'd like to move out of the United States You know because I just feel like it is just Yeah, that's how I felt and I mean and that's interesting well, I I mean Yeah, I mean obviously just because you're not affected. Well, just because you're not affected by I was just I'm not judging I'm just it's interesting. Yeah, I don't know. It's interesting. I just felt really strongly about this I mean, I think a lot of people do you know, yeah, it's just like us like a it's like a human rights kind of situation It's a human rights issue you know, and it's like for me. It's like really just the fact that we as a country would Do that? I mean and I think my thought process was like if America ever crosses that line and America has truly His truly been is does it get in a truly fucked up horrible state and And here we are where robots versus I mean abortion is still legal and You know a decent one of states but It is the case that We live in a post-row world and a post post-row in America and America is in fact in a very very fucked up state right now so I agree. It's like very hard to you know, feel optimistic when you have like the me too Step forward, which is very cultural step forward very hard to actually quantify step forward And maybe very hard to say if it was actually a step forward at all And then you have the row versus Wade step back which feels extremely to it is very tangible. It's like it's very hard to say You know all things considered You know If there really has been progress because it certainly feels when you weigh those two things together like there hasn't And you know, actually going back to the conversation about reaction, you know, I think, um, because like I think the me two movement was when what when was that 2017, 2017, seven years ago. Yes, it's interesting. Well, I was going to say maybe Donald Trump's election was sort of a reaction to me too, but I guess maybe not quite. But, um, I mean, Donald Trump's election was certainly a reaction to a lot of things. Yeah, you know, but I don't know. I do, I do very much think that like as someone who was like very closely following the 2016 election, you know, one thing that a lot of people, a lot of commentators were saying like abortion is on the line. And this election in 2016 and if Trump wins, Roe versus Wade might be overturned. And that's exactly what happened. So, you know, I kind of feel like with the Roe versus Wade conversation, I feel like it's almost like a delayed impact of something that happened in 2016. Right because he, who he nominated to Supreme Court. Yeah, he planted the seeds. Um, that's a whole, that's a whole, I mean, that's what I was kind of saying is like if abortion gets overturned in America, if Roe versus Wade gets overturned in America, America must be in a really fucked up spot. And because in order for that to happen, something really fucked up must happen like Trump becoming president and the Republican stealing a Supreme Court seat. Like, so here we are. Yeah. Yeah. So on Wednesday, like this Wednesday, Florida will have a new law going to affect where most abortions will be banned after six weeks of pregnancy. And before for context, it was up to 15 weeks. The law changes on May 1st on Wednesday. And just for context, most women at the very least find out their pregnant at six weeks. So by the time most women find out their pregnant is too late for for a lot of them in these states. So it's really like unfair. It's basically just making it illegal, but it's their way of doing that. They have, there are some exceptions for victims of rape and incest and human trafficking and stuff like that. But, or and some for saving the woman's life, but I don't know. It's just, yeah, it's like basically illegal. No. I don't know. It just makes me like, and I don't, I don't know. I'm always wondering like, this is something wrong with me because I'm always worried like, what are reactionaries going to say to this? What are reaction to how am I going to get owned for saying this? But we shouldn't think we should not worry about being cringed because that's what like leads to bad stuff. So we need to stop worrying about being cringed. Anyways. I don't know though. Actually, I don't know. Maybe you do need to worry a little bit about that. I don't know. Like, I feel like my, well, I don't know if I can call her my friend because she's too cool for me. My friend, that adult on Instagram and TikTok, she's like a really, really smart person. She talks about like fashions, but she, she's like very smart about everything. And she, she made like a video about how we were all worried about being too cringed and ending up in like SJW cringed compilations and because of that, because we're like too afraid to speak out and sound cringed. We're kind of like letting all these awful things happen because like standing up against it is like cringed and she articulated this way better than I am right now. But it was like, I don't know. I thought she was a very, very smart about it and on the money. So I don't know. I'm trying to like, I took it to heart and I'm like trying not to like worry about sounding cringed. Well, I do think it is important though that like, I hate to say it, but I do think persuading people. I hear you. I hear you. It's not necessarily like, I don't know, it's more like we shouldn't worry about like, we should be able to like, actually like not be passive. I guess she was talking about how like being politically engaged has seen us cringe now and how like we should be more politically engaged. I would agree with that. I would definitely agree with that. Yeah, it's interesting. It's like, this is always the question is, how do we change the world for the better? You know, that's really the question. That's really the question we're asking right now. You know, do we keep to ourselves because we don't want to come across as radical and scare people away and make them think we're cringe? Do we be, do we say, no, we're going to say the truth and we're going to, you got it because you need to hear the truth and if it makes you mad too bad, you know, lots of different things to think about. But I don't know, I kind of, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong here, but I just feel like in my gut that for, I think for many reasons that it's, we, we want, don't we just want, like, don't we just want. You know, things to be healthier, you know, don't we want our society to be healthier and happier? I think, like, fundamentally, like, it's a good, because feminism is a good idea and because it should make society better and has been making society better. For me, it just, like, it just seems so rational and it's like the winning argument that so for me, it feels like I'm almost like inherently my gut says that, like, the world will become more feminist over time. And obviously, things don't always work out that way, but I don't know, you know. I'm not speaking from, like, any real, like, academic perspective and I'm not, like, not really using data here, but in my experience, like, I, I've definitely, like, it feels like there's a reactionary shift with feminism. Like, think about it, like, even with women, like, the tradwife sort of archetype that's, like, infiltrated social media again, like, that's probably, like, a very small portion of actual people, but, you know, pop culture encodes meaning, you know, I mean, like, it's pop culture, like, shows us, like, how to think about things and how we see things and, like, I feel like this past year was very bad and pop culture was very bad for women, I think, because what it, what, and in the past few years, it's definitely been, like, sort of, like, anti-feminism and that, like, being a feminist is hard, like, being working and being a mom at the same time is hard and these things are true. So, like, instead of doing that, like, why don't we, why don't we just let a man take care of us, you know, like, who cares if we're equally talented or smart, like, it's just easier for us to put our heads down and be a stay, stay at home mom, you know, like, that, that sort of idea has, it was permeating through culture for the past few years. And this year, like, I'm by this year, I mean, like, 2023, it was all about girl, this, like, girl, dinner, girl, math, blah, blah. It was very infantilizing and sort of reduced, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know what I'm trying to say. But it just, it felt infantilizing, it felt like, like, a way to sell products, like, hot girl lock, like, and so many ads, like, targeted ads I got as, like, a woman, like, in their demographic, psychographic, whatever. It's always about, like, hot girls do this, girls do that and it's always about buying, you know, buying some, 'cause they're advertising, so about buying something. And I don't know, it just feels infantilizing, it feels like a marketing ploy, I don't know, I just feel like in pop culture, it hasn't been, it hasn't been great for us. I believe you, I don't know, it's just really hard to say, it's very hard for me to say because one, I'm a man and two, you know, I don't know, I've always, it's so freaking hard again with the social media stuff. are the algorithm? Yes, there's obviously the sales stuff, the ads, which are terrible. And then are these social media algorithms purposely, you know, like I feel like ever since Elon Musk bought Twitter, it's like I feel like I'm seeing way more reactionary stuff because obviously the algorithms are different now. You know, it's like all these questions. And then also like, yes, obviously things are very bad still culturally for women. Very true. But again, it's like, has it gotten worse or has it gone from really, really, really bad to only really, really bad? Like that's, I know that's like not the most satisfying. Oh, don't complain. You know, we went from a horrible patriarchy to only pretty bad patriarchy. Yeah, I think that's possible definitely, but I don't want to like underestimate the power of pop culture. Like I said, like because pop culture is behaving this way, it might push things in a worse direction. Yes, it's, you know, pop culture teaches us how to think about ourselves and other people. You know, I mean, like it is a really important socializing tool. And I think like seeing like this, like bimbo feminism and girl, this girl that I'm just a girl is pretty, I think it's damaging. And then it also makes us look like children and that like caring about women's rights is like childish and stupid. I don't know. Yeah, you know, it's very strange because I feel like, um, I, you're right. You know, I feel like feminism, like for example, okay, here's, I think here's a good example. All right. Eight years ago, if you would have posted a picture of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, everyone would have said like, I love this woman. You know, I mean, that was a caption. You know, then you're obviously going to get people who are right wing who, who dunk on you. But generally people who are left wing are going to be like, yeah, cool. Now if you do that, people are like, oh my God, like you're such like a cringe lib. Like I feel like, you know what I mean? Like I feel like I feel like right now like celebrating feminism. And like obviously, yeah, Ruth Gator Bader Ginsburg, like her legacy is tarnished for legitimate reasons that she, you know, like she didn't do everything perfectly. But the point is, is like, I, you know, I feel like across the political spectrum, and it's very hard to be like a feminist with any, any sort of way, shape or form. I hear you. I do think like part of it, though, is maybe like we've like taken off the rose-colored glasses when it comes to feminism, though. Like I think that the feminists that do exist right now that are very serious about feminism, are a lot more critical of like this lib femme, lib liberal feminism that was sort of like commodified pretty 2016 and even after, you know, honestly, 20, no, up to 2020 I think was like the bad time. Like during Trump's like election and then like his presidency, like there's a lot of like RBG type, like like like there was this like glorifying of female liberal politicians. In a way that does like seem very cringe now and I think like it's possible that like maybe we are just like a little more smart about who we celebrate as being like feminist, important feminists. I mean, it's true though that like RBG was you know important for feminism. I don't want to like say she's not, but now like I feel like we're just like like maybe in general like feminists especially are like a lot more critical about feminism like making it less than the marketing thing and more about um real political action. Maybe that's why there's reactionary pushback. I don't know, probably not. So in my opinion, I think maybe we need a little bit more liberal feminism because first off the Barbie movie had a good amount of liberal feminism and I enjoyed it. And second off, you know, I think, you know, we can do like these kind of you know like postmodern critiques about how women in power, you know, just uphold the current system and therefore blah blah blah. But I don't know like at the same time like we could use some more women in the supreme court who are liberal to to to make for sure for sure. I definitely get that. But I don't know as a woman like I'm glad that feminism is taking a more like critical you know stance like I'm glad like like like feminists are are um critiquing these things like I think it's good for society. Yeah. No, that's absolutely true. Like I don't know I'm tired of like feminism being commodified and like sold to us like a feminist like I'm a feminist t-shirt is like being made in like a factory in Bangladesh, you know like exploiting women like it's just I'm sick of this like fake feminism. And it's not like it's like hey like I'm not a perfect feminist by any means I support feminism. I'm not a perfect like I don't like call myself the like perfect wrap like representative of the feminism I agree with you know what I mean like I could always be about our feminist. But you know I don't know like I'm happy to see like more feminists like criticize like come out as commodity feminism and and remind us like what the actual goals of feminism are because we've like been satiated and satisfied by like like this like like feminism like seeing feminist themes stuff and movies and clothes and stuff like that and it's it's great but what is it really it definitely accomplishes something but I'm glad like the conversation is being shifted to like for example like women outside of the United States who are you know dealing with severe patriarchy you know. Hey everybody we're having um technical difficulties. You could be saying crazy stuff right now and I don't know what you're saying. I am I'm telling the yacht like Sophie. Sophie can't hear me right now. Sophie can't hear me. So this is a tough so so Sophie for some reason can't hear me. But anyways so we're having technical difficulties. So we're the episode has to stop here. Um so but because Sophie can't hear me I'll get the last word and just saying. I'm having so much fun. I can talk. Feminism is epic. Thank you for listening. I bet you're going to be football. I don't know if it'll be them in the pool. Based on your work bye bye.