WALL-E with David Ehrlich

[MUSIC] >> Computer to find podcasting. >> Podcasting, a series of tangents involving two friends where bits and contexts match harmoniously with bullshit. >> What's being replaced, especially with bullshit? >> The actual line is a series of movements involving two partners where speed and rhythm match harmoniously with music. >> Right, the dancing. >> Yes, we are dancing. >> We are dancing. >> We are a lot of creative liberties taking that. >> We're in a eternal dance. >> It's rare that you get quite so much room to free jazz in these intros. >> You didn't want to just do. >> I thought about it. >> Yeah. >> I mean, this series is called Potsy, and I was like, can I just do the dialogue where they're trying to explain each other's names to each other? >> You were able to tell him what Potsy was. >> I was. >> There's not a lot of options. >> I mean, it's either in the pot of a cast or. >> We're in the strip and it's just in Potsy. >> Becca Alter, last week's episode did throw out. Would it be funny to just call it podcast or for John Carter? >> Yeah, but we can remove. >> We can never blow that. >> No. >> We can never do this to like, you know what, that's it. >> It's just called like podcast. >> There's the meta joke there of being like, how did this end up with the title that makes no sense and has zero jokes? >> You do like a meta joke. >> Yes, but Potsy is fine with it. >> If you perform it, it's going to look so good visual with the Double D. With those Double D's on that fucking artwork there, Potsy. >> Make sure Griff has a giant rack on our Pots artwork, Pat. No, Ben's favorite. >> Pat Reynolds wrote those Double D's on there. I want to be a stacked robot. Oh, fucking bodacious fish, Pat. This is my new character. >> When and what is it? And what is this? >> He's not here. >> He's been during the Becker talk. Was I quite as confused? >> We're going to find if I the end of this episode. >> He's good. >> We're going to locate this guy. We're going to figure out what makes him tick. How's Becker doing? >> We're not going down there. >> Okay, sorry. >> He's coming back, right? He's got to be coming back. >> Listen, Malcolm in the middle's back. >> This is exactly in the world of like a sequel. They're going to keep digging until the world collapses. >> Becker, Colin, life is unfair. >> Any interest in Malcolm in the middle life is unfair? Anyone watching that? >> I've heard it's fun. >> Once you lose Eric Parcellivan, I am out. >> That is always my favorite thing in the world. >> He's just like, no, thank you. >> And everyone's like, they offered him so much fucking money. They were like, this guy's playing such smart horrible. And he's like, I actually just have no interest. >> And no offense. >> They're offering him so much money to do nothing. Like it's like, you know, you're just going to be the seventh guy. And you're just going to go like, yeah. >> And it's just like, no animosity. I love all of you. I wish you all the best. I have no desire to do this again. >> It's very impressive. >> Because someone who has no desire to watch that show. I feel like I understand where he's coming from. >> I love Malcolm in the middle. Like when it was on, like I was a big fan. It was a show that I tried to rewatch during COVID. >> I can't imagine. >> In my classic kind of, you know, in the COVID way. I'm like, well, this could be something. And I watched the pilot. And I was like, there's nothing wrong with this. Like this is well executed. I remember it fondly. >> This is so its moment. >> It's, yeah. I'm not feeling a desire to return here, yes. >> There's something telling to me in the fact that Malcolm in the middle has not had any like Gen Z. >> Yeah, sure. >> Your rediscovery. >> Right. Despite Cranston's, you know, career. >> That it feels like this show is purely nostalgia for those of us who grew up with it. >> Which, I mean, the point of us. >> I think it's nostalgic for Frankie Munis' tweets about death. >> Frankie Munis seems like a very well-adjusted gentleman. >> I was about to say. >> I don't know what you're talking about. >> Okay. Do you remember that period where he was like racing cars and he got in so many car crashes where he was like, I have no memories of Malcolm in the middle. >> I do. >> And now he's like out there promoting the Malcolm in the middle. Rebootin, he was like, it was so nice to get all together again. And I'm like, don't you not know who Frank Cranston is. >> It's just that great moment where he was like doing a talk back with Cranston. And he was like, by the way, your wife I'm breaking bad. What a shitty character. She's always in his way. And he was like, you realize I was pulling like a sociopathic drug dealer, right? >> It's so funny to be like Cranston, Anagon, fucking Vince Gilligan. I feel like it's been so consistent in talking out against that line of criticism. >> He's always been very good. >> And be like looking right back. >> And to have Cranston there with like his fake TV son and be like glowing and be like, it's so nice to be all together. And then watch the terror on his face where it's like, you have this fucking opinion too? Not shocking again that essentially a brain damage shall start without that opinion. >> Yeah, if it's someone who was not working during the exact years that Reddit began taking over everyone's brain. >> Right. Frank Immunez's like triple crown of press was, I think Skyler's the villain on breaking bad. Two was, I made Skyler Buff's career by turning down the holes. And three was, did I make out with Hillary Duff? I don't know. >> Well, there was also the sub story about how because Hillary Duff's mom insisted that she was going to be in agent Cody Banks, he blocked her from being in the film because he was like your step in on my turf. >> Yes. >> He was like 12. >> But she is in both of them, is she not? >> Certainly in the first one. >> Well, there was some story recently. Some actresses mom, I think it was Hillary Duff. >> Yeah. >> Who was a stage momming for her daughter, essentially, and saying like, oh, she'd be perfect for the lead in whatever your next movie is. And I will admit to not being totally off book on my Frank Immunez. >> Well, let's, because we are doing Frank Immunez next on Patreon. >> Sure, sure, sure. >> So it's two Cody Banks. >> We'll see in the Bar Mitzvah movie with Jimati. >> The Bar Mitzvah movie with Jimati. >> Who's that movie? >> The interesting movies now that I want to see. Well, it was Pivin in the Bar Mitzvah movie. >> That's keeping up with the signs. >> That's very Marshall Neppel Baby movie, right? >> That's sort of aspirational Jewish cast thing. It's like, I wish Jimati were one of us. >> No, Munez, you got my dark skip. You got two Cody Banks, you got Big Fat Liar. And I feel like that's the canon, right? >> It is, it's the American canon. >> Do you know what else is really funny? I'm sorry, I'm just remembering this. And it sort of makes more sense now that Munez is like, "Well, they were begging me to do holes, and I turned it down." And like, Shia picked up my scrap. >> I'm going to movie holes. >> Like movie holes will never not be funny to me, I'm sorry. >> Show holes. >> It was what kids were demanding to theater owners at the time. >> Don't like it in that. The way you say it, don't like it. >> Show holes. At, I think around the time that Wall Street money never sleeps came out, Shia did some interview where they were like, "You've had five or six consecutive number one openings in a row." Like, "Are you the guy now?" And you feel worried about maintaining that track record. And he was like, "Yeah, but like look at the things I was in." It was like transformers in Indiana Jones and a Wall Street sequel with Michael Douglas. I'm not taking credit for that. Frankie Munez could have opened these movies to number one. And I remember that feeling like such a weird burn at the time. I'm like, "He's got negative juice." Shia Laba for finest comedian, very level-headed movie star. >> Yes. Anyway, go over to our Patreon if you want to hear the films of Munez. >> Munez. >> From the Earth to the Munez. >> Yes. Yes, that's what we're calling it. That's not what we're talking about here today. Today we're talking about one of our finest movie stars. His name is Wallace E. >> Is it? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah, his name is Wallace E. No, he's a waste allocation load lifter Earth. >> Correct. >> Waste allocation load lifter Earth class. >> Yes. >> As later in the film, we see the wallets. >> Yeah, and there's the burnies and all that, right? There's all the guys. >> But the wallets are axiom class. >> Yeah, they're big boys. >> Of the same deal. >> Yes. >> They still make a cube. >> Big big cube. >> This movie about make cube. >> This movie is about make cube. >> They should be a wallet that makes hypercube. >> Garbage cube, let's say. >> Sure. >> It's an important distinction. >> Yeah. >> But do you know what's the robot M.O? >> Fun guy. >> The best performance in the movie? >> Yeah. >> I mean, we'll talk about how my wife sexually identifies as M.O later. We'll get there in due time. >> Okay. Today, on this podcast, which is called "Blank Tech with Griffin and David," I must fuck up the name of the podcast. It's called "Blank Tech with Griffin and David Earth Class." I'm Griffin. >> I'm David. >> It's a podcast about filmography's directors who have massive success early on in their careers, such as making one of the 10 highest grossing films of all time. The highest grossing animated film of all time fish. He said, "What if fish were lost and people threw money in Oscars at him?" Given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want, this certainly classifies. Sometimes those checks clear, this movie, and sometimes they bounce next week. >> Maybe. >> This is also true. >> It's a mini series on the films of Andrew Stan. It's called "Podsy." And today, we're talking about Wally, his true blank check. And also, it feels like the culmination of a blank check moment for Pixar at Law. >> I would say both correct on both, for sure. Obviously, John Carter's a huge blank check as well, but at least with that one, you can argue like it is a known property of sorts. And blah, blah, blah. Whereas this is truly like him being like, "I think I want to push my capital on this," and Pixar agreeing like, "I think we should." >> Right, and we will get into this, but it's the thing I'm fascinated by endlessly, which is because of the nature of the deal the Pixar had with Disney. a deal that everyone thought was going to end acrimoniously after cars, the final movie that picks our old Disney from a '90s deal, Pixar just started with Steve Jobs's help, self-financing and self-producing movies with no outside interference. There are three movies they just make completely independently knowing that when the Disney deal is over, everyone is gonna wanna be in the Pixar business, and they just go to the highest bidder. Iger takes over, Eisner leaves, Iger immediately resets the table and figures out how to make good with Pixar and inherits Ratatouille, Wally, and Op, which are the last three movies they make, and the only three movies they make with just like zero commercial consideration, zero outside interference, zero studio pressure, and you could feel it even in how these three movies were marketed. - Griff, and you sound like someone who has a vested interest in passion for Pixar, which is far out of your wheelhouse. This is a surprise to me. - I'm introducing this threat of my interest to our listeners today for the first time. People were like, "Why the fuck would Blankcheck cover Andrew Stan? "Is that a David push?" - What? - Me? - This is the joke, it's a bit. - Okay, okay. - What were you gonna say? - Me? - Yes. - I like Wally. - Wally is a really good guy. - Wow. - He's awesome. - I've only grown to like him more. Producer Ben, how did you see this movie before? - Yes. - Okay, 'cause this is the era we found out last week. - Not a cartoon era for you. - That you hadn't seen Finding Nemo. And this is an era where you were opt-in out of a lot of the mainstream culture. - That and just kids movies I wasn't interested in. - I feel like Trash Planet is up your alley. - That's Trash Planet being the original title. - But did you see that in theaters? - No. - Yeah, you could feel it later. - When do you think you saw it for the first time? - God, I could not tell you. - I'm just curious if it was like shortly after, like if you saw it in the last decade for the first time. - In the last decade. - Yeah, yeah. - This movie has a lot of Ben shit in it. - I really relate to Wally. - He's a really good guy. - I feel-- - Were you ever best friends with a cockroach? - No. - Got to try it. - No. - Not yet? - I really relate to just being a rusty garbage boy. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Our guest today is someone who's made a legitimate bid for most times watching Wally. - I think, I was thinking about this. I think it's entirely possible. If not probable, that I have watched this movie more than any guest on this show, or host on this show, for that matter, has ever watched any of the movies you've covered with a possible exception being Sims and Ponyo. But I think my son's Wally fixation was so specific and unrelenting that I may have taken that particular ground. Not that I'm proud. - When we finally committed to doing this series, one toy story five got dated. We just typed you in. - You're right, I'm a list. - It took months before we even went like, we should ask, or like we should just like double check. But there was an extended period where as you described it to me, my son thinks Wally is movies. - That's right, he doesn't. - He doesn't understand that there's any other movie that's ever been made. - Correct, we were on a plane and the only way to pacify him was to put something on. Was that? - I said Nirvana over here, 'cause they have a song called on a plane. Of course, it's a difference. They mean a plane like-- - We were on Disney's planes. - Disney's planes, fire and rescue. - Fire and rescue. - Fire and rescue. The movie I am very glad he is yet to discover. And we needed to pacify him. Wally was on the seatback screen courtesy of Delta. And I think he watched it six or seven times, except in Jesus Christ, before we did the hands, we're doing the hands, and that was it over the next calendar year. Wally, once a day, twice on rainy day. - It was one full year, basically, right, of the Wally year. - Yes, yes. You probably watched it 500 times. Or it was in your home 500 times? - It was, it was. - But you're not always watching it. - I think at a certain point, your eyes glaze over and you actually begin to retain less of the movie than you did originally. It just sort of blurs together as out of self-preservation. But, and you'll find that I think I have less of a handle on the details of this film and someone who's only seen it two or three times. - It's been abstracted, it's like a magic eye. - I had a little bit of that rewatching it last time, the same re-realization. - I did as well. I actually had to like make an active effort to kind of re-engage with it. We talk about this sometimes on the podcast. Can I try to watch this movie fresh again? Can I try to like really engage with it, rather than take it for granted when it's things I've seen so many times? And I, this movie at the time was the most I had ever seen a film in a theater and might still be. And I watched, I'm scared. - I'm so obsessed with it for years. It might have hit 10. Like it might have. - It was fucking higher. - Eight or nine. - The only way to watch a movie like this fresh eye, in my experience anyway, is through the eyes of a child, especially a child seeing it for the first time, which is what I did with my daughter last night. - Okay. - This is what I was hoping. - I tried to Wally Pillar. We can talk, we can get into that. I don't know if now is the time. - What are you guys doing today? - Our guest today, and this is unique. This is a kind of competitive advantage he has on this podcast. Our guest today is a film critic named David who has children who we watch his movies with. - I'm a real poser in the David category, although I did have children first, I will say. If someone's copying someone here, it ain't me. - I will never forget, David. - I'm sure I've brought this up before being at the theater to watch beautiful day in the neighborhood. Good movie. Movie, I always say I saw it in 40X because I saw it at the Alamo and I ordered a cup of tea and some cookies. - That's good. - I rewatched that movie recently. - It's a great movie. - It's a really good movie. I've always been a fierce defender of that movie. - Same. - So that's Thanksgiving 2019. - Mm-hmm. - I had helped you bring a snoo up your stairs that day, that morning, I think. Yes. - That's not new. - I suppose that it was about seven minutes before we left for the hospital. - Yeah. - You had texted me being like, "Hey, we really need to get this to up the stairs." It's a smart bass now. It's, you may find yourself with a snoo one day, Ben. Like, who know? We can talk snoo whenever we want to advertise on the show. It's a great project. - I did use snooze myself. And, hey, can you bring up the stairs? And then you texted me while I was in the movie. Oh Lord, he coming. - Oh Lord, he coming? - And oh Lord, he came. A little baby Wally. - You did name him Wally, which kind of maybe forced the issue on it being his favorite movie. - I guess a little bit of nominated terminism. Anyway, say my name, bitch. - David Orlich, bitch. - Finally, after this parade of no name hacks and losers that you guys have had for guests to start 2026, someone of real cultural importance, someone who had the, the, the, the foresight, the gall to tell the world, leak Ronan's the mummy. - Not great. (laughing) - That is what you're gonna be remembered for. - I thought you hadn't seen it. - I sure have. - Oh okay. - And reviewed. - And you liked? - Did not. - Let me see. - Did not care for it. - Let me see what you said. - Not a, not a fan. - There's not Lee Cronini enough for you. - Right, that's what I, it's a, it's a, - It didn't even work. - Oh, under delivers on Lee Cronini. - It's messing and Lee Cronini's feeling. - Anyone, any identifiable. - See, mine. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Look, the obvious position they were in there was universal kind of push Blumhouse off of the classic monsters, right? Clearly Blumhouse was like, "Ah, these are all public domain. Can we keep doing our like takes on them?" So they set up a mummy movie at New Line. They don't have the universal branding, and then they find out that universal is gonna reboot the Brendan Fraser mummy when there's already been three different universal movies just called The Mummy. And their pivot is, - Was Brendan Fraser in this one? I can't remember. - No, was to call it Lee Cronini's The Mummy. - Why did they just call it Mummy? - Yeah, Mummy Reborn. - What? - Mummy Reborn. - Yeah. - If they called it Mummy Reborn, I think it would have like, we have real mummy at home vibes. - Yeah, I think also like, because of the Brendan Fraser convention of, why don't they call it, here's this distinguishing from Brendan Fraser, The Mummy, Tomb of the Dragon Emperor. - There's certainly never been a movie by that time. - And put Brendan Fraser's face on the poster, but then be clear in small text. He's not in the film. - All I could think about watching is-- - We just admire his work, Greg. - Lee Cronini's The Mummy is how hilarious it would be if Brendan Fraser cinema's biggest goofball walked into this dire as hell story about child death and possession. It would be like Brendan Fraser walking into like a Serbian film. - Well, he's got the girl, hilarious. - He's got the girl. - He's got the girl. - One of the all-time great quotes. - From whom? - From Marty Scorcheese. Do you not remember this? - I don't. - When people were asking him about the Fraser casting and killed her to the fly moon. And he said he had the look, he had the energy, he had the girl. - It's all working into place. - Yeah. Today we're talking about Walling. - Walling. This is one of my favorite movies of all time. This is a movie and this was the other thing about watching it. - So you think Nemo perfect? - I do. - But you do prefer this, right? - I was swinging back and forth while watching this. I mean, this movie is, it's just very personal to me. And in a way, watching this I was like, God, this thing was fucking laser targeted at 20 year old Griffin. It could not have been more of a like direct hit. So it was interesting to rewatch it and feel nostalgic for what it meant to that guy at that time, not that it feels dispersonal, unpersonal now. - Sure, yeah. - Yeah, no, I totally understand. I mean, this was a movie that when it was announced, I was so hyped by the premise that it did at the time under deliver for me. - Oh, see, it over delivered for me. - Right, my expectations for this were so high [BLANK_AUDIO] I think I had the experience that a lot of people had at the time that we will talk about of the second act hitting a little less hard for me and me being like, right, the Pixar movie, like, which I love Pixar movies, but I was like, right, fundamental. And I grew to love it much more once my daughter got into it. I had a whole real love affair with Wally. And now I prefer the second half to the third. That's interesting. And I just love it. You say half, but this is like, I know it's like, it's an even third movie. Yeah. It's like the first third is Earth, but I prefer the, um, uh, the action, the action stuff. Yeah. But I love it all, to be clear. Yeah. I love, I love it all too. We're going to get into it. Yeah. But I would both of you saw it at that time. I remember. Yes. I saw it at the, uh, Villages. I remember it. Similarly, I saw this almost everything in there sitting, but I, I remember even before it was officially announced there were swirling rumors of Andrew Stanton's next movie. There's a romcom about robots in the style of silent comedy. And I was like, that feels fake. There was a nervousness, even at like the, the, the rumor of the vibe of the thing. That was so my shit. Yes. Right. Is this movie Steve Jobs greatest contribution to society? It's a great question. I was digging through all the, the criterion extras. And the only Disney movie in the criterion collection, certainly the only proper Disney movie with a Disney fucking logo at the top. That's a great question. I have no idea. Yeah. I mean, you might be. Yeah. I'm like, maybe there's like another like touchstone mirror max is no longer owned by Disney, but you could say that Disney commission at the time. This was a olikard, you know, one off the choice that did not personal relationship. Yes. Exactly. Of a sort of a larger track. Although, who knows? Fucking Disney just laid off shut down its entire home media department in order to replace it with wallies. But what was I saying here? Oh, there's a thing on the criterion desk where he said when he was running things by Steve Jobs, Steve Jobs biggest question slash note was, what is the business model that makes sense for Axiom to be running the starliner? Oh, I mean, I've had this question. Yes. Like, like, like, like, how does this work 700 years in? And they always just kind of like settle on like, well, they just want to be alive. So the self perpetuating and they just kind of yeah, but you jobs who never designed anything that did not fail after five years, well, by design, right, we never develop a spaceship that lasted for seven centuries. Correct. Correct. And it's obviously a, it's still a, like, highly consumerist culture, right? But you're not seen trans actor and you're like, who's getting the money from it? Where does the money go? Right. That's what's fascinating about it. I think there is money. No, I agree with the Axiom as sort of the Apple store and all the transactionality is happening sort of within. Yes. But the Apple stores do tend to hold up against where I suppose I feel like it's more just like the Axiom built these ships for profit long ago, excuse me, BNL boxes. Sorry, BNL built the Axiom ship for profit long ago. They made the money. The ship took off. Right. But then after that, right? Of course, like human commerce just sees to exist because they assume they would actually get back to sure and whatever transactions they made on the Axiom would then translate back to a world with whatever fucking digital fiat currencies. What did they eat though? Well, on the ship. Yeah. They have the food in a cup. They're not growing anything. Maybe. No, it's all just fucking. Yeah. It's just like a coup. Yeah. Yeah. Pizza in a cup, whatever. It does raise the question when you see in the movie, the sort of like advertisements for the new products or like everyone's switching from red to blue or whatever. Like, is that one loop that's been repeating for 200 years? Is the thing just fully stuck in like every generation, which is from red to blue? Yeah. Someone also or happens like once a week or once a year. Someone did the math also that humans basically live like 160, 180 years on the Axiom because of the amount of captains there have been. Yeah. Like you see the sort of list of them because it's 750 years. 700 plus years. Yeah. It's explained by microgravity where you would have no stress on your muscles or your organs or your bones. Yeah. Right. I have so much stress on my bones. Yeah. I mean, it does. That Steve Jobs note and his involvement in this movie to begin with does sort of speak to the commerciality that was at the heart of the Pixar ethos in a way that I like all of their movies, particularly early on, you know, thinking about Toy Story, Monsters Inc. And now Wally, which is sort of sort of an auto commentary and all this are rooted in precepts of capitalism in a way that I always found as sort of not a barrier to entry, but like a low ceiling on how much I could love them. There was just there were so distinctly American in that way. Sure. And as opposed to something like the obvious comparison of the studio Ghibli, which just were a more of an invitation to wonder for me. And I think Wally, which is so rooted in wonder if anything is an act of trying to reclaim that and merge it with the capitalistic impulse. Well, you're also forgetting that a fucking a bug's life is about communism and collective action. I mean, a bug's life, you know, remake of Seven Samurai, but even, you know, even that is, uh, uh, maybe further afield from, no, but you're right. It was a lot of the Pixar thing was putting adult structures onto fantastical characters in children's films. Like I went on our, our friends Emily St. James and Phil Piscos podcast, podcast like it's and did a monster zinc episode with them. I think him out earlier this year. I was like, this movie is a kind of like ground zero for a thing that becomes a cancer in children's films, which is what if magical thing was a business? And monsters think still is the one that's done at the back, but also Toy Story says what if business was a magical thing? That is sort of, and also like Pixar, right? What if the dynamics of your toys talked like bored sort of like office workers and yeah, yeah. And then this movie is the one that's sort of, I mean, I remember the amount of reviews at the time that were like, this message is nice, but also every store is littered with Wally merch. This movie is being released by Disney. This is true. You know, it has a happy meal. It's the Wally London, of course. Yes. Um, but if you want to make a $180 billion movie, you're probably going to have to sell some toys. But the call is coming from inside the house, it was ever the capitalism, Asputs Riley. Yes. But you're right that the the framework is different in that this is a movie of like someone trying to break down that system and that structure. Yeah. Or at least look for the cracks in it to, you know, have opportunities for wonder to sort of bridge. I mean, this movie is in many ways, which talk about sort of bridging two worlds. And I think in this particular regard, it's bridging the world of art and commerce in that sense, which is what's obviously implicit to everything that Pixar does, but this is doing it a little bit more literally. But yeah, they, uh, you got to eat, you know, these movies are made of profit. You got to eat Wally. Wally. You can just drink up those. I'm hoping that they slow, they fly too close to the sun, which famously, not something you should do. Yeah, but it helps them recharge really quickly, quickly, um, uh, it starts, of course, with lunch. Wow. J.J.'s getting like kind of narrative with his research docs these days. Lunch at the Hidden City Cafe in Port Richmond, Point Richmond near the headquarters of Pixar. Famously, the teaser trailer for this movie. I remember this teaser trailer and I was excited for this movie. Yeah. I was like jerk in a big dick watch. I was just like, get the fuck out of here. Do you know about this, Ben? No. So speaking of Disney, like making the deal, inheriting these three Pixar movies that they had no say in and it's like, good luck. Your next three movies to market are movie better French rat who believes in high cuisine, right? At a time where like Americans did not fucking care about food, a silent robot comedy and, uh, an old grumpy old man whose wife died in a flying house and they're like, the fuck are we going to do with these? And the Ratatouille teaser trailer famously has the thing where it spells out the title phonetically and it's all like a made up scene of the character direct addressing the camera explaining to you with the premises because they were like, fuck are we going to do with this? And then the Wally teaser trailer is Andrew Stanton talking about this experience of the Hidden City Cafe. Like the trailer only has like 20 seconds of animation footage in it. It is basically all trying to explain to you, trust us where pick the trailer where they have the Brazil music, um, I think so. Yeah. Anyway, it talks about it was Lacer, Dr. Joe Ramp, him, and they hammer up bugs like monster sink, finding Nemo. And then the last one they talked about was Wally. Yes. So basically they're in production on Toy Story. They're like, should we be coming up with other ideas in case this thing's a hit and they ask us what our next movie is, we shouldn't be unprepared. So they said this one lunch and all of those movies come out of that one lunch, obviously not fully formed, but that's what they're fucking framing in the fact. Let me tell you. Yes. Right. Stanton's actual report on that slightly massaged kind of advertised. But massage of the teaser is this is the most magical lunch of all time. I have which he's having. Am I right? Yeah. What are they? Every movie that came out of this has been beloved. Trust us. This is the final movie from that. They drink story juice. Oh. Yes. They ate movie sandwiches. So Stanton has said, look, we had ideas that inspired those movies. Obviously, we did not like come up with a bunch of finished things there. It would be fun to have bugs. What if you? make a movie about like monsters and children's bedrooms. - Yeah. - He said the bulk of the launch was a bug's life. We truly came up with a large chunk of the movie in that launch. And then probably the second most concrete idea, even though it was half baked, was the last robot on Earth, a machine left running, not sure what to do with itself, idea. There was no name, no storyline. It was really just a character, but we liked the character. Like we liked that idea. We're in the military story, and we have been really struggling to make Woody appealing. So I think they were really into this kind of like Robinson Crusoe robot, because they're like, that's appealing. That's like a good guy. You're already rooting for that guy. - Exactly. - Yeah. - Although also, oh little sad. Kind of a sad, 'cause I remember saying to a friend of mine when I was like, really hyped for this movie before I came where I was like, it's about like a garbage robot that like Earth is just a pile of garbage and everyone's gone and he just keeps going. And he was like, that sounds so depressing. And I was like, right, but like, that's crazy, right? Isn't that cool? Like, so the film was initially called. - Trash Planet. - Trash Planet then. - I mean, I like Wally's a good title, but Trash Planet really draws you in. The pitch was Pete Dockters. Andrew inherits it. - There was basically a game just like the very, very basic pitch, you know? - For a period of time, Stanton was trying to crack Monster's Inc. And Dockter was trying to do Wally. And then they end up swapping and Stanton ends up also coming up with Finding Nemo, which then supersedes. - Thank God they switched. If Dockter had done it, there would have been like a droid named Loneliness. And he would have been like, you know, there would, yeah. - But that's why Dockter gets the co-story credit 'cause he basically was the one who incubated a very different version of this first. - So Stanton's working on Nemo. He starts dreaming of Trash Planet again. - It basically becomes his like Barton Fink to his Miller's Crossing while he's working on Nemo where when he's hit a wall, he's like, let me, let me noodle on this and type some shit out. He said basically that the first act, his quote, fell from the sky. He was like, that felt like so complete to me. - Right. - What do I do? - And then I never knew what to do once he leaves. - But then he's like, well, the opposite aloneliness is love. So it should be a love story. Okay. He was seduced by this idea of like, he falls in love with another machine. Okay. So where do the machine come from, right? What does that machine have interest in? Now, this is, as you've noted, the man is religious. The greatest commandment Christ gives us is to love. - But that's not always our priority. - Christ is doing a lot of heavy lifting then. - So I came up with this premise that could demonstrate what I was talking about, that a rational love could defeat programming, right? You got these two robots with the base directive, but then the love kind of overrides it. - Yeah. - This is what he's saying, not me. - No, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna sit on my read on this movie for a moment. - Okay. - So, you know, obviously this is a risky thing. They are a little worried. They do have the blank check status of Pixar's huge success and especially Nemo's huge success that I think Stanton can sort of ask essentially what he did, which is like, can you leave me alone? Can I try to write it? Like, let's not do this sort of big edit room, like together or whatever. And, you know, like, can I write like an original sci-fi movie? He loves sci-fi movies, Alien, Star Wars. - Yes, these are big 2001. - I've seen them. - Eventually Jim Reardon, who's a Simpsons guy, he directed Menuson to co-write the best Simpsons episodes of all time. - Such as what? - He directed King size homer. - The one with King size homer, you know what? King size homer is pretty funny. - I'm gonna give you a list in a second 'cause it's actually astonishing. - No, it's often just amazing when you see those Simpsons vets where you're like, oh my God, everything I did is amazing. And you're like, of course, everything the Simpsons did was amazing. - He kind of had a reputation for a while. He was a Keller's guy as well of being the best animation comedy writer of his generation. He became more of a writer guy that he directs. Many Simpsons. He worked on the Mighty Mouse cartoon Under Ralph Bakshi with Stanton, which is where they became friends. His big breakout with his student film was called Bring Me the Head of Charlie Brown. That was a peck-and-pop version of P-Nuts. That was semi-viral in a tape-trade kind of thing. - I remember, right, yeah. - That episode's key directed if I can just fucking like- - Give me a couple. - Yes. It's Ian Scratchy and Marge. Bart's dog gets an F brush with greatness when Flanders fail. Trio support to Homer at the bat dog of death. Bart's friend falls in love. Homer the heretic. Mr. Plough, Duffless. Marge and Chains, Homer at the bat is huge for me. - Bart's part of darkness is so fun. - Lemon of Troy. - Lemon of Troy is so good. - Yeah, he directed like a lot of the best ones from the best air. - The Simpsons. - It was a good show. - Yes. - It was people like it. - It ended, I guess, in '90. - '99, yeah. - Yeah. - So, yeah, they have the idea of Eva, the Eve sort of- - He brings weird in. - Yes. - She's like got this idea of this sort of sleek, futuristic techno robot. This sort of the opposite. - What if you fell in love with an iPod? - First version wasn't set on her. Oh, interesting. - It was just a trash planet. Like, we don't know what. Steve Jobs is the one like, I think you should set it on earth. Like, I think you should have a little bit more of a commentary here. - I saw there was a thing he said in the Critchand Disc where he was like, "When I made this movie, "I did not want to comment on "or engage with humanity at all." When I was like- - Relatable. - Developing it. I was like, "The whole appeal to me "is like isolated robot, outer space, "remove ourselves, distance ourselves from this." And people kept kind of noting it in a way that brought it back to needing some human connection to make sense of the movie. - Now, is he identifiably in New York City or is Wally just been inspired by the architecture of New York somewhere deep in his coding to build a New York City out of Cube Trash? - I think it's the latter. - Okay. - So it takes a long time to get the second half right. Ba, ba, ba, ba. The iPhone comes out in 2006. He was one of the first people to get one because he had a job, gave him one. And through playing around with the iPhone, the sort of addictive quality of a smartphone, he comes up with the kind of human-sejected to screens living in the axiom thing. - He said also, when I first got one and started playing around with it, I was like, "I have not felt this in cigarettes." - It's crazy, because I feel like so much of what was compelling about the iPhone back in 2007 was like the social cachet 'cause there was very little to do on it. - There was less to do, but we may do with whatever lay around. - It was far. - I mean, I didn't get an iPhone till 2012. I had a black bear. You were a black beary guy. - I was a black beary guy, for sure. Yeah, I mean, it was a work thing. Like, yeah. - It was a work thing? What do you mean? - Yeah, well, my job gave me one. - Oh, oh, oh, okay. - Have a little black beary. - Yeah, please. - Lil' keys, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo. Stanton says, "I'm not making a comment on obesity. I'm trying to just make everyone a big baby." Like, the idea of the humans on the axiom is not that they ate too much. It's that they have turned into babies. - Well, okay, so let me get into another thing here. 'Cause there's the thing we sort of skipped over. Originally, he doesn't want it to be earth. And then there was an extended era. They only make this change. Like, I think about two years before the movie comes out. It was supposed to be a ship of green gelatinous blobs who didn't speak English. There were two different versions of it. I don't know which one came first, but at one point, it was truly like, they are aliens. They have sent. - They were gel people who spoke in a language like that was like Monte Python sort of IKEA speak or whatever. - Which was teeing up a planet of the apes and turns out that in the end of the film, it would reveal that they were once humans. - Right, so like a planet of the apes style. - He talks about like there was a version where it was like they were truly impartial aliens. The implication is that humans died off. And now these aliens have abducted these robots and trying to study, you know, extinct cultures, right? And that they have a bunch of robots. And the movie was like a robot Spartacus as they put it. Where the robots are second class citizens under the aliens. And Wally becomes like a figure of the uprising. - But would it be that they're evolved? - Well, so then there was a different version. I don't know which one came first, where it was the blobs are the devolved versions of humans. That is the twist that we've devolved that much and that they don't even remember or understand that they're connected to that lineage. And that's what Wally helps connect them with. And they, like I'm very far along in that, there are like animation models that were built and they had written the whole sort of version of that and done the story reels of it. And they were just like it, the lift became so hard and heavy to get audiences to connect with the blobs who aren't speaking. It is this thing for me where I'm like I accept and I buy, they just tried and couldn't pull it off. But the second I heard that I was like Jesus Christ, if they had made that work, it would have been astonishing. And I say this is someone who has never found a blob that I haven't been able to connect with. - We love blindies. - Sure too, especially blobby, the OG. But best of blobby, one of the most important pieces of media reported that riffing should be due. But I think it's just thematically, it doesn't really square because you implicitly, there's no reason to move it. - That's a different move that being blob is worse than being human. - Right, they need to be babies. Like it's the axiom stuff is what I like more of these things. - They need to be helpless. They need to learn helplessness. - But the iteration was like, right, audiences aren't connecting to this. Maybe we have them talk. It's hard for the audiences to connect to the blobs to make them feel like distinct different characters. There was an era where it was like a aristocracy, there was like a king and a queen and a prince. - There was a royal wedding or like modern structures. And then they're sort of like, let's put a nose on the blob. What if they're not green, but they are. like flesh colored, you know? And then it slowly evolved into the baby thing. And in doing the kind of like classic Pixar research, he spoke to a scientist who said like, if multiple generations of humanity were to live in space, they wouldn't just have their muscles atrophy, their actual physical composition would change. Do you see the video of the astronaut? I mean, we're recording this in the middle of April, but people just came back from the moon or going around the moon. And they had the video of the astronaut who hadn't walked on Earth in 10 days, just 10 days. And she could not pull herself along the parallel bars. She needs to be supported by the reason. Right, right. So it's like, if you're the like seventh generation born into space, you don't need like muscles anymore. You don't need your bones, they're just sort of like shrunk within your bodies. They're big, big babies. Fortunately, technology has not had any sort of negative effect along those lines on us. No, it turned out to be not prophetic at all. It's the problem with this movie. It's a got it all wrong. We solved everything. They also can figure out the ending. Or for a while, it was always going to be like he has to give her his like heart battery. There was like a sacrifice. They never liked it. Finally, they had more of the idea of like, he loses his memory is the kind of crisis at the end. Need to interact with this because it's another just kind of like fascinating stanton story cracking moment like the Finding Ema Barracuda thing. And all of this is important setup to John Carter, where he breaks his own story roles in several ways. I've never been able to understand. You know, they watched a lot of silent comedies and they watched a lot of Chaplin and Lloyd and Buster Keaton, especially because I would argue that Wally is most closely aligned with the Buster Keaton character types. Even if the movie, I think, leans more towards modern and not modern. Well, there is a lot of modern times in it, but also city lights. It's like a Chaplin movie with a Buster Keaton character. And he said the thing we kept trying to figure out what Wally's emotional arc was and trying to force one and what's his growth and how does he change. And then we started looking at those movies. And it's like very often Buster Keaton is an unchanging figure in the center of things. And what he does is subtly affect everyone else around. Sure. What is Stoneface, but of metal? Exactly. And so he kept being like, well, Wally has to like become empowered by the end of the movie. He has to save Eve. He has to become the dominant one. It is one of the latest major changes in a Pixar film because the last 20 minutes were basically completely animated. And they did a test screening where they hadn't done final lighting passes and whatever. And it wasn't even a note he got back, but he watched it with the audience. And I think it's on the disk. There was one guy in the mall in Arizona who was like, yeah, what if what if Wally falls asleep? Why the fever was a girl boss. She had to save him. But there's a there's a clip of him going to the Pixar team and being like, guys, I'm so sorry. I'm about to ask you to do an insane amount of work. We have to redo the entire last 20 minutes. And usually it never gets that far. You you identify those issues at a storyboard phase, but it was completed physical animation. There are scenes in the trailers from that version of the movie. You can see that aren't in the final film, which it like shit never gets cut that finished. But yeah, he was like, it has to be inverted. It has to be that his world view has actually affected her enough that she needs to pick up his mission and carry it out. But you can see the like a lot of the extended deleted footage of. Eve was like batteries been fried and Wally has to save her and he's flying around with her at the end. Stanton very shy about any kind of like topical discussions, not interested in talking about global warming. Like sort of dismisses a lot of the environmental stuff because he's like, I don't have a political ban. The last thing I'm going to do is preach like all this just sort of made sense for my story asked about consumerism. He's like, yes, there's lots of things disconnecting us from each other and that are consumerist. But the reason I made them look like big babies because it was like a nasty guy told me, you know, that's what they would look at. Bob, you know, like, he's like the last thing I'm trying to do is make a message movie. Like he's very weathering up. You want to take this away from him. He's sort of seemingly uninterested in addressing that. Wait, that's so weird though. I agree. I mean, can I, can I, that's not my job. May I give my read on that for a second? Sure. Because this criterion just came out in 2022, right? And that is this framework of now here is an adult cineast physical media package with curated supplemental material to like frame this within an intellectual conversation. And the new material on the criterion disk is so much more pointed and transparent. There was a lot of I have to imagine Disney inheriting this movie. And I think it's what's fascinating about watching this movie now where like the greatest concern was a kind of like an anti-intellectualism and an apathy. That's what culture is falling into. And that anything in this movie that could have been seen as a leadist or critical of an American apathy would have become like a fucking talking point. Because apathy would become Disney's lifeblood over the last 10 years or so in the live action remake era. It does feel like there was a little bit of at the time. You cannot fucking politicize this movie, right? I think so. I mean, a lot of these interviews are also from like Christianity today and like 20. That's what I doubt that I was working for when I spoke to him in 2022. I talked him not for Christianity for around the time the Blu-ray came out. And he was very receptive to talking about the sort of political valences in the film. The more recent interviews it seems like he will be like, I mean, of course, I do get a lot of boxes from Amazon and wonder he said that was one of the main activating things was like early 2020, right? He didn't say it at the time. No, no, no, no, he literally softened up a little bit. I did buy that he wasn't like trying to grind axes with this movie. And I think you hear him talk about organically how the story locks into place, but also it was coming out of personal observations. Wow, I got a smartphone. I'm addicted to this. I now there's a website that sells everything. My house is filled with boxes. Yeah, I mean, my sense talking to him was that all those things were true, but I do feel like the sociopolitical commentary sprang out of what you were talking about earlier, which is like deep rooted love for the movies, the early movies in particular, the movies that were formative for him, where he really sort of sprang to life, which was very convenient for my purposes, was talking about the movie as a expression of the choice of parenting as the act of, you know, we were talking about a bridge earlier, so like the act of taking something from one generation, showing it to another robots acting like humans, to teach humans how to stop acting like robots, the transference of going from consuming everything as well as done for hundreds of years to displaying that, to showing that to someone else, which is a completely revelatory and transformational experience for him. Wally, so in the screenplay, obviously, I guess you guys probably know this, but I'll tell you anyway, like the dialogue is written even if the characters don't speak, so he would say like in brackets, like here's what Wally's trying to say, and then obviously later they put in, you know, all their little noises, Ben Burt, the great Ben Burt, the legend, Ben Burt, Ben Burt is Ben Hossley, the man who like invented the entire Star Wars soundscape, among many other things, but one of Lucas's closest collaborators, and you know, just these things we take for granted of just like droid link, which is in lightsabers and the sounds of ships, and he created that probably with a moog, like analog synthesizer. There's another great thing on one of the Blu-ray releases that's a breakdown of like how many people at Pixar have to touch one single shot of a movie, like how many different departments work on it, and they cut to Ben Burt explaining what his contribution is, and he was like, I was trying to find the right sound for this movie, for this shot, and then I remember that in around 1997, I gone and done some recordings of Niagara Falls, and it's very indicative of how Ben Burt works, which is he just kind of fucking collects sounds. Right, always collecting sounds. Right, so there are things that he would sort of just like construct, but more often he just was constantly building a sound library, and then being like, oh, you know what'd be interesting, what if the sound of this ship is this plus this? What if he was collecting sounds when I collected the sound of a murder? I mean, this is the question, and David. Did he invent, did he invent robot bleeps and bloops being cute? Because we had bleeps and bloops, we had forbidden planning with the jetter. Let me tell you, I would agree with you that no bleep itself, I think, was not cute into R2D, too. Right. Right. I don't know. Yes, I think so. I would love to look at a list of like history's robots, like, you know, the who was there? He's like, Robbie's not that cute. All right. Look at the best bleep bloops. Okay. So during, while they're preparing this, Andrew Stan is going to keep saying, like, I need this to be like R2D2. And finally, Jim Morris, who is the former president of ILM, who now works at Pixar, says, do you want to just get Ben Burt, like the guy who did R2D2? Which is basically the equivalent of like casting Tom Cruise in your movie. It's like, this is your main actor, basically. Not only does he literally end up being the model for the voice of Wally, but it's like, this is the guy who's going to figure out whether or not your entire movie works. If he can make these compelling and distinct. Now Ben Burt, as he puts it, had just finished what he considered a basically 30 year tour of duty making Star Wars movies, and was not that enthused about robots. He was coming right off of the prequel, yeah, he'd just been working on the prequels for so long and was like, I just don't want to do any more robots. But that kind of capro romance, bust or key hero thing, that's an interesting challenge. And you know, the idea also of like, they're going, it's just, they're mostly communicating with each other, so bridging the sort of robot communication gaps, right? Like, which sort of like the R2 3PO thing, yeah, he likes that. But you're removing the humans going like, what? Well, and also like when they come in, you know, C3PO is human cyborg relations. His job is to fucking translate things. And it's like, what if you're not translating it, and how do you still make it read to the audience? I think that guy is. Ben Burr. C3PO. But yeah, sure, Ben Burr. C3PO. There's a guy who could use a crush. Am I right? I don't think so. I think that would just make him anxious. It's kind of wild, nine movies C3PO never even like. Carry on. I think it's your thought. They're even like fucks. It's supposed to everyone else and the fans, it feels fucking nothing right. You know, arts, you could get it or you could get it. And I think he is getting it. I think sometimes he's rolling off to the side and you're like, where did all to go? And you're like, he's. He's gone. He's hidden. He's hidden. So, you know, they, you know, the usual Ben Burr thing of like, okay, now I've got this challenge of like creating character voices all distinct, all have to sort of sound human, sound relatable, tough. He records in a little chamber, he says. He takes those recordings, runs them through his computer, he analyzes the sound and breaks them into component parts like you would sort of break light through a prism to get colors he says. And then you start refabricating, you know, putting it all back together again, but you can control. You can be like, maybe a little more of this, a little less of this. Hold vowels, stretch vocal cords in a way that you could never, you know, pitches. And, you know, if sound was silly putty, you could stretch it and make it longer, he says. I found a way of working on while you were, you could do that. Sounds like something I would not be good at, but it sounds very, very cool. It's very cool. You also just, I mean, I've only seen him in countless making us, but it just seems like a friendly fella. I was going to say, seems like a sweetie pie, super charming. He's not like, this is intense. No. Yeah. So, I also think some of these Lucas see guys in interviews, you're like, you're like, you are the spectrum. You seem like a nice person, but you almost like are a robot looking for another robot to talk to. Ben Burt, I think is, I got to meet him when we went with George Lucas to Skywalker Ranch school. And he has since retired, but was there giving a tour to his friend from high school. That's cool. I mean, he's pretty old at this point. He's in his late 70s. But I assume you must have talked at length on this podcast about the trip you just mentioned, but I have no memory. Not at all. It was pretty incredible. The very casual George Lucas took me to his house. George Lucas did not take me to his house. George Lucas has not acknowledged us. Okay. Yeah. The way you presented it. Yeah. Sure. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Let me clarify. Yes. Go ahead. Yes. Other people within the organization, like the George Lucas talk show. Darth Maul. And have always been like, I don't, I don't wonder if George would like it. There's always been this sort of one degree away. George does like comedy, but he's really sensitive and so on and so forth. The extent to which he can find humor in himself and his work. Yes. It seems to me. It's more than it was, but I'm not detaining a ton of it. It's more than it was, but also like every year at like Comic Con, they would do a panel that was like Lucasfilm's favorite fan films and parodies. Like he's always embraced that shit and Connor Connor, I'll always tell us the story about like the first time Star Wars was on the cover of Mad, they, they were sent like a cease and desist and George Lucas, they mad responded to George Lucas's lawyer saying like, really? Because this is a letter we got from George Lucas last week. And it was George saying, like, I'm so flabbed to be on the cover of Mad, can I please buy the original art? But we walked into like this guy worker ranch library and the librarian looked at Conor and went, was wondering if you were ever going to show your face here. It feels like all people then watched the show. Yeah. Fascinating. I have to say, some of the only joy I've known in the last few weeks was watching Jared Harris on the George Lucas talk show where he was just the first half of it. He's like, what decisions have I made in my life that led me to this moment? That's the joy of doing the show is watching people go through that and then by the end of it be like, I'm all in on this. But it was so cool to watch, basically, we were being given a tour adjacent to Ben Burke giving a tour. And it was at a, on a day where there weren't a lot of people like you could walk 15 feet behind him and just hear echoes of, yeah, I'm watching him talk about it and whatever he's a lovely guy. So Sigourney Weaver obviously is involved with this movie. As he put it to Sigourney Weaver, you get to play mother now. Right. What if your mother she likes that idea? She does it. Sigourney Weaver. So do stuff. It does feel like a great way of incepting your kids with eventually watching Alien when they're seven. It also is on the timeline. It also speaks to the tough sell of this movie where I remember like Sigourney Weaver doing fucking like the today's show and good morning in America and whatever for this movie, even though it's almost like an extended in joke cameo because they were like, we have no stars in this film. Like Sigourney Weaver's the computer. The other lead actors are Ben Burt, a Pixar employee and the Mac text to speech program. And two men who have been accused of being sex pests in different different varieties. Yes, you're right. I was not counting my head. Who was the other? Two of Pixar's favorite. Well, Jeff Garland has gotten so blown back and Fred Willard jacked it. No, he didn't. No, he didn't. Hey, listen, I didn't say I was in the place you're supposed to jack it, right? He was appreciating the art. He was engaging with it. And the manner in which it was and it wasn't a porn theater, right? You take that. I didn't say sex, pests in his derogatory way. You did. Well, pests is a derogatory word. You can't just being like, I'm being a pest and everyone's like, yeah, you're my favorite pest. I would call him a sex fan. He's an appreciator of sex, but yeah, no, it's right. Willard Garland, John Ratzberg, the big three of the 2000s box office. So Wally, you know, there is the right, there is the, I think at the time for Pixar somewhat revolutionary thing of like we will have humans in the movie, right? It's still the only time they've done that, right? Like they've never done anything like that since, right? No, yeah. So you got Willard obviously is like, it's a good joke. I mean, it's sort of like we will turn into CG. What? Yeah. We were once humans and we turned into CG. Yeah, this is also the movie where in Stan talks about that this was kind of his main project of like if we're putting humans in it, then we're presenting this not as a form of like photorealism, but we have to sell a sense of versimilitude. And so the technology has finally gotten to a point. And this is still an era of Pixar where almost every movie is built around a new technical challenge. Can we solve? Like they're actual basic building blocks of this medium working that still have not been cracked yet. And his big pet project on this one was, can we truly make the virtual camera feel real? Unlike in 2D animation where you are the animator also basically the cinematographer to a degree in that you are composing your shop, but you're very limited in the kind of camera movements for even approximations of camera movements you can do, CGI inherently has like a virtual camera built within it. You know, this is a movie where it's like we want to make the camera feel real. We want to own the imperfections and the struggles of what a camera did a lot of analog 70 millimeter tests to try and capture that kind of, you know, the lighting, the texture. And they're like, where is the barrel distortion? You know, where are the imperfections? They got both Roger Deacon's and Dennis Miren to be consultants on this movie. And he was basically like, I explain to them all these things that have driven like Russian lens makers crazy for decades that they've never been able to solve. The weird quirks of just like human limitations that then Pixar is trying to replicate rather than computer, which is always trying to perfect everything. And a thing that happens. You're kind of bad guy, computer kind of bad guy in this movie. But like especially in the sort of Lovian Rose montage, there's a lot of like you feel the camera operator and they talked about this of like, especially the the scene where Wally triggers all the shopping carts and they come like rolling after him against the wall. Like the camera is struggling to catch up with Wally and keep him in the frame. There's like an over correction of the camera movement that's basically the stuff they started fucking with in the bloopers. Yeah. Like the toy story bugs like monsters and bloopers have that kind of like, isn't it funny to acknowledge that someone needs to like refocus? I don't care for those. The bloopers are funny, David. I understand. I don't care for that. You don't care for them at all. No. I was a kid. - It's funny that animation would have stakes because you'd think they would just erase it a long time ago. - We also, we didn't call it something funny Nemo, but that was one of Stan's moves also where he was like, these movies can't start to feel like they're fitting into a pattern in a formula. - 100%. - We got to break the blooper thing because like we're about to start repeating ourselves. - Yeah, yeah, I don't like the blooper thing. - And this movie does not suffer from Pixar, boardroom story, but it's what I'm saying. - He retreated from that. - I mean, very clearly. - I mean, obviously Brave, their best film was still to come. - It's a trip. - Change our fate. - Do you want to change our fate? - Was it the Wisps? - Now, the film begins. Oh, how does Wally fit into the Pixar theory? The witch turns into Woody and then where's Wally in this? - Wally's. - Is Wally pre-cars? Like, will cars come after Wally? - I think Wally is post-cars. - Like, if Wally charts the apocalypse and then up, but yeah, is it post-cars? - Yeah, I think it's that after the cars have died off. - Wally was not originally invented to clean up a squit's name, fucking McQueen, lightning McQueen. - Yeah, Wally is post-cars. Of course, guess what's post-wally in the Pixar timeline theory? - Onward, of course, set in the 4,000s. - This is a fuck you. - Honestly, honestly, this is a fuck you. - I mean, I don't know what you're talking about. - Is it worth diving into? - No, no, no, no, no, we'll be fine. - It's worth saying what it is and why we're not giving it any validity. - It's not a real thing. - The Pixar movies all have these easter eggs, right, where it's like the pizza planet truck shows up in every movie. There are things like that. And most of the Pixar movies include a preview of the next film. So we called out in the final Nemo episode in the waiting room, the dentist, a kid's reading an incredible comic. They would see kind of the next movie in a little way, right? At the end of Monster's Inc. Boo has like a Nemo toy. There's always that kind of shit. And a very annoying corner of the internet started taking it literally. And being like, oh, that means they exist in the same universe. What is the timeline that justifies all these things happening? And with every added Pixar film, it becomes sweatier and sweatier. But you can watch like hour long YouTube essays where it's like, so. - I mean, I believe there was like a hour of meditation. - Cars take over. - Then when the cars kill themselves, Wally cleans up our garbage. - Wally starts with a real shot across the bow. And you're like, immediately it's just out there. And it is so immediately removed from Pixar tonality up until the point. - I thought about our Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon episode where you said, has any movie more quickly announced itself as a masterpiece? - Well, with the opening string. - Crouching Tiger still has it. - Yeah, I don't know if the quality is implicit or what all these are. - Well, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon begins with boop. - But in context, this is telling you, it's a little circa 2008 and you're in the theater. This is not your daddy's Pixar movie. - No, you're also, there's no soft easing. You know, most of the Pixar movies like have like a cold open before you go to an opening credit sequence. And then they start to really minimize the opening credit sequence. This is like Disney logo, Pixar logo. The short before this was Presto, which is pretty good. - In theaters. - Pretty good. - You love Presto? - I think that's the best one they ever did. - She's like, that's the best one they ever did. - Apart from, of course, my beloved red stream. We're the bicycle. - Yeah, what's your favorite? - And lava. - Lava. Lava actually should have gotten Pixar shut down. - You know what I mean? - Everyone's like, we appreciate everything and they release lava in the government immediately. He's like, I'm sorry. - You're done. - I came on one day and found my daughter watching lava and it was like what? - You threw the TV out the window. - I think your kid watching the ring tape. I was just like, I was like, no. - What's your favorite of the shorts? I think Presto is so god damn fun. - I love Presto, but I'm like, the top is interesting. - What's the top? - I gotta think on that. - It's better not be fucking lava. - Well, yeah. - I mean, it better not be fucking what? - I was about to say a funny one, a boundan, but I do enjoy bounding. - Absolutely. - He's boundan. - I like, yeah, yeah, I like lava the most. - Look lava. - I'm sorry, so Presto. Sorry, yeah, lava's the bottom. I love BOW and I've seen BOW so many times because my daughter really loved BOW for a long time. - They sent me the little plastic prop bow when that came out and it's been living in my freezer for like eight years now. - What's in your freezer? - 'Cause I, it's a frozen bow. I don't know if I put it up there. - I'm in a corner. - Yeah, well, I'm talking about. - I'm like, is Jerry's game my favorite? - Jerry's game very good. - Yeah. - He's joining the MCU soon, right? - Can you name which ones won the Oscar? - Jerry's game win? - Jerry's game won. - Okay, so the Luxo Jr. won. - Incorrect. - Luxo Jr. was nominated. - Tintoy won? - Tintoy won, that's the first one. - Did Nicknack win? - Nicknack sadly lost two stack, two bodacious. - Yeah, right. Jerry's game won. - Yeah. - That was the second. - Yep. - For the birds' won, I remember that. - That wasn't that era where it was kind of like, they're just gonna win every single time they do one. - Yes, 'cause it was too consecutive for it. - Bounding on its ass kicked. - Bounding did get its ass kicked. Then it doesn't win. They don't win again for a while. - Did Day and Night win? - No. - La Luna? - No. - My daughter also loves La Luna. - Those nominated, yeah. - La Luna is a Luca prequel. - Yes. - It's got like Luca style. - Yes. - Lava didn't win, didn't it? - No, thank God. - Lava not even won. - Did Piper win? - Piper won. - Piper's good. Piper looks amazing. - Yes. - Piper's just looks incredible. - Yeah, but there's not a win between 2020 and then bow one. - And then bow one. - And then bow one. - Yeah. - Bow so good, she eat the bow. - She eat the bow. - Do you remember when they announced bow, we were all like, "This sucks." I don't want to watch a food baby. And then everyone comes at a bow crying. - Bow fucking rocks. - Yeah, of course, turning red rocks. - Yeah. - Because maybe turning red is the best. - Yeah. - God, turning red so funny. Now I'm just thinking about it. With all their faces, go funny. I had a base style. It's so funny. - I just think the immediate, quick cuts, establishing shots of space, straight it with fucking Hello Dolly lyrics. The weird juxtaposition of what is the fucking tone of this movie. - The Hello Dolly of it is very funny in that that movie is so flawed. - I mean, this is that. Now that movie is so beautiful. - Great. - Exactly. - Stan's also said that he's like, "I find it funny that Wally has bad taste." - Well, it's like, I always imagine. - He's a bit of a cheese ball. - Yeah. - He was not exactly, you know, had a blockbuster video at his disposal. - Guys. - He just wants to hold hands. - He does. But I always do imagine, like, what if Wally had found like a VHS of Citizen Kane or something? - He could go out. - Yeah, I think Citizen Kane's no fun. - Well, it was fun. - Yeah. - I'm obviously not as funny. - Wait, what's the gag where he throws out the good thing? - The ring. - He picks up over the box. - The ring keeps the box. - Yeah. - I love that. - I think that's part of also, like, it feels reflective of, like, you're lucky, or like, that your son hyperfixated on Wally, and that was the movie that had to play 500 times in your- - Oh, there have been other much worse hyperfixations in its way. - Exactly. He's like a child. - That's the stage, the meltdown. - For some reason, he's fucking locked in on. - Meltdown's tough. - That's a tough movie. - So step up from the first stage. - No, it's not. - Step down from the face with the hand. - One time I went over to your place and your son was insistent that we all watch Ice Age the meltdown and got really angry when anyone else was talking to her. - Oh, yeah, yeah. He loves to do that. Yeah. This is part of why we had such a blow-up at the Alamo draft house. - Well, yes. - What was the blow-up? - What was it? - What was it? - What were you saying? - What about it online? - You know, like, you're in media, or like, draft house piece? - Oh, I did. - Oh, yes, right. But that was not entirely his fault. - No, I didn't mean there was. - No, not at all. - That was a problem. - Very serious about taking in his Ice Age. It's not like people talking over it and everyone has to find out. - I barely don't like going, I've been to draft house twice with my daughter. And I don't like it as much as the night off. - Please do not even get me. - Obviously, draft house is right. - But Ice Age boiling points. - The Nighthawk has been better. - The draft house is now, I agree. - The worst place to see a movie. - But so easy to fix. - Yeah. - Like, it's just like, you have the infrastructure. - Guys, we can fix this. - We can fix that. - We can fix that. - Right. - We all told you not to do this. - I think they're going well. - I can't tell. - I'm holding out hope for commonsense prevail, but I also think that they are so deep in it and are so invested in transitioning their work. - Yeah, 'cause they made just stupid technology. - Firing lots of people who are reducing their hours and having no more season workers. - So that was their whole thing too, was they were like, we're rolling this out as a test program to see if it works. - The test, you know how much it's fucked up. - The feedback was terrible. And they're like, great. We're gonna go ahead and force it on everyone. - And it was like, this was your plan all along. You didn't care how anyone felt about this. - Yeah, of course, right. - Some real B&L shit. - It is some real B&L shit. But I was trying to think of the other movies that I've had to endure this many times. He's not really into big city greens, which is not a movie out. - Yeah. - It's a show that I had not heard of until he-- - You mentioned this three I've never heard of. - It turns out that roughly 60% of the guests who have ever appeared on Black Check have done voice cameos on big street. - Yeah, not one version new. - Not one host. - No. - Zero host. - Hossley's been on it. - Yeah. - He's a regular. - He's a regular. But yeah, that's his latest thing. I'm still trying to figure out what it is. - Hi, Ben. My name is David Erlich. You might remember me from such blank check episodes as Wally. So I figured that I would send you a quick voicemail Because something has really been troubling me since we recorded. are Wally episode a couple of months ago. You know, any number of things that I've said on blank check over the years have plagued me. But nothing has really kept me up at night quite like how callously I dismissed the children's television show Big City Greens. I think at the time I was myth that my six year old son, Asa, was forsaking the infinite riches of children's cinema in favor of a streaming television show during his limited after school television time, but it turns out that Big City Greens is a fucking masterpiece. It's basically the Simpsons for eight year olds or younger. I think it ages a little bit, aged up for my son, but he seems to rock with it anyway. It's actually a gateway drug to the Simpsons that I came home one day to find my son watching completely unprompted. I didn't even know he was aware that the Simpsons existed, large versus the monorail, which was a really profound moment for me. Anyway, Insamation, Wally Good, Big City Greens, Very Good, Chipwistler Evil, that's what I got. Thank you. Love you. Bye. Here's a question for you. How long had it been, do you think since Asa had seen the movie last, after watching it hundreds of times? There's a bit of gap when he discovered all the movies. Right. Until last, before last night, when I had to sort of, because he's so resistant to anything that is no longer his choice, anything that he thinks is his sister's idea or preference is not going to fly. So I actually thinking that he would be just sort of enraptured by flashing lights as he is prone to do, I had my beautiful wife, Mo, a turn on Wally as I was bringing the kids up the stairs so that when he walked in, it would just be there and sure enough, you know, slack jaw, you know, the thing from Batman Forever, just fucking watching Wally. It did immediately suck him in. It did and they ended up watching the whole thing, but it had been probably three years. And your daughter had never seen it before. Never seen it before. Immediately. Immediately fell in love with Wally, Ala Wally falling in love with Eve. However, it came from a place of profound concern. I think my daughter, unlike my, I hesitate to call him, so see a podcast that will outlive me. I love my life, but he's not quite the natural empath that my, that my daughter is, but like every three seconds, which would be like, Wally, no, is he okay? Wally, Wally. My daughter is constantly in peril. My daughter, we get so anxious about when the rocket lands because that is, I guess in the first act, pretty much the only moment of real peril when he's chasing the red dot. Yeah. And then like the flame and because you just, you know, and she had to always be reassured whenever he's like, he's also even does shoot Wally several times. She does, but like, that's played more for laughs, I guess, like you never really feel that threat. And then the later existential threat, if he loses his personality, yeah. I think didn't quite land with my like three year old daughter, but she didn't really get the peril there. Uncle Griffin did buy a, I think a Wally and an Eva, or maybe I bought the Wally and bought the Eva. They're still making new Wally's and they haven't made a good Eva in a while. And I bought a vintage Eva. Pretty good. It's no, it's pretty. It doesn't fly. But I don't do so. I'm pleased. Trust me. I did the work to get the best one I could, but it was vintage. Like, I don't think they've produced a compatible. It does have a cannon in like 15 years, yeah, which has blown several holes in my apartment walls. Is that an Eva Funkopop? Yeah. Of course. Yes. Yes. Technically, her name is Eve, but it's just that Wally, and she says, Wally, and can we just say that she's hot, or should I just, should I not do that? Like I walked out of the movie with two, I'm at the time being like, well, I really liked that. It wasn't quite as transcendent as I was hoping at the time. I remember. I am rock bottom. But then I said that it is that boxy robot. She is a bossy round face. She is a birthday round face. That would not be round her. Correct. And she could not be bossy. She's an upside down egg. Oh, she does is go, Wally, and he's like, you know what moment I really love. Please? After she kisses him and electrocutes his face in space, and he's like frozen and floating away, she goes, Wally, for the first time, she's like, come on, you old silly goose. I know that my sexual power is totally fried. She's like waves are arm over. All right. We start with though, Wally lives. As you said, you start without there. Well, that's true. But I mean, read the first act and the silence and all that. And you know, Stanton says we were breaking rules. This obviously was not a done thing, but this is my point. You start with the fucking Blair of like, yes, an obscure musical song. And you're like, this is not how this movie starts. And then it winds down to absolute silence, but then it gets closer to earth. The pivot that they make to the first notes of two to the score, which are very ominous. Score very important. And that is a huge, it's a huge, jarring moment. I think it's similarly unexpected where you're like, oh, we're going from the joy of that song to something is unearthing the palette of the first three minutes is already like throwing you totally out of whack of like, don't expect this to conform to the the comforts of the usual Pixar movie. Why are they using like an old Hollywood song? Why is there now just kind of silence and isolation? And they film Wally from like, such a distance. And you're sort of focusing on the spaces and then watching him cross and clear frame and not even clocking necessarily that he built everything we can see totally right. And then the Thomas Newman score only kicks in once we sort of zoom out and understand, oh, he built these structures. And he sat in the low. You watch the process of him sounds music, doing the cubing, stacking the one, the sort of pride he has in doing it precisely. There's a great stand clip on, there's a, there's a like 20 minute feature on the criterion. Ben, to your question, you asked famously in the early days of podcasting, how, how do you direct animation? Draw faster, right? Yeah. There's a really good like 20 minute, but also better. Yes. So like mini documentary of showing what directing animation is. And it's just kind of a compilation of reviews that's Dan's doing. He said basically that like as he puts it directing animation is you have to make a choice every three and a half minutes. He's like, I arrive every morning, my assistant gives me what they call the dance card. And it's here's everything you need to review today. And the list is so long that basically on average every three and a half minutes, you have to make a definitive choice about something, whether it's approving a design thing or a sound thing or an actual shot, giving a note, you know, deciding when a thing is finally finished or what needs to be adjusted or any of that. And there's a really good clip of him in a meeting with a lot of the story team, the design team, trying to figure out, okay, how are the robots going to work? And much like Finding Nemo where he said, I really didn't want to anthropomorphize the fish. I wanted to find a way to make the fish expressive while sticking to basically the physiology of how a fish could actually move secret. What if Jewish solved the answer, right? But for Wally, he was like, I don't want them to mirror our bodies that much. I want to play with limitations. Right. I think that's fun. Right. Talking to me, if their bodies can do a thing that we could never do. And so Angus McLean, who is a big part of this movie later directs Lightyear, which rewatching this, I was like, oh yeah, the whole fucking design language of Lightyear is ripped off from this movie. It is what if it was Lightyear had Wally designs, even all the tech, all the ships have the same kind of weird, like, rounded? It's not the movie that's the origin story of the action figure. Oh my God. Erlik. It's not a movie about the action figure. It's about the real man that the action figure is based on because in 1999, I was like, 1995, a young boy watched a movie and pretty sure he made a joke, the same joke on the Nemo episode. So I think we'll just maybe have to do it every time. There's a lot of life during this series. He has this great line where he's saying to Angus McLean, he's like, can I make the argument for giving him elbows, right? Like Angus McLean's making this plea of like, it's going to make all of our lives easier if we can give him an elbow. And Stanton goes, I'd rather give you a wrist than an elbow. And everyone in the room goes like, huh, and you watch him explain for the first time. Like it's coming to him. Like what if his arms are like this? What if they're small and they're out like this and his wrist can extend in this sort of way? And that's now coming up with a language of movement that you couldn't do with a human being. Which is, I think so much of what Stanton finds interesting in animation is like finding these midpoints between the language of live action film and the language of animation. Which is like, how do you kind of shoot and cut a movie in quotes with what we understand from live action, but depict on screen things that we couldn't ever film and find the sort of midpoint between human behavior and what kind of characters are projecting on. And with Wally and so many of the robot characters in this movie, it is all in the eyes, which are obviously a cheat for animation, you know, whenever they're trying to anthropomorphize something. But I think it's so resonant here because Wally is really kept alive, not so much by solar power as he is by curiosity and wonder. I mean, this is what separates him from all the other Wally units that have been decommissioned. It's that he gets off on discovering things about the world. that has sustained him for centuries. - So tiny pin in this. He, the other sort of part of the lore of this movie is he was at like a baseball game and he had like cheap binoculars to watch the game from the cheap seats and he got hyper fixated on the hinge of the binoculars and how he was like, oh, if you tilt them down, they look sad. - Yeah, it's brilliant. - Right? - And it's so clever. - Which is the starting point of the design of this character. Obviously, the trash planet idea had existed, but that kind of reactivated the like, you could build an entire character or that's the only face you have. - And there is the subtle thing and it's like part of the language the movie teaches you that pays off so effectively at the end when Wally like comes back is, oh, all these robots are supposed to have a straight line for their eyes. - And maybe that's right. When he turns personality less, he goes back to the straight line. - No, no, the droop is when he gets good again. - Right, but that's the moment where you're like, oh my God, our guy is back. - Yeah, our guy. - And he is our guy. - They've taught you this thing where suddenly seeing the droop can vase so much to you in this classic like Pixar teaches you a technology that is meaningless and by the end of the movie, it can communicate a complicated thing in one movement. I think that is sort of the defining thing that this movie is about is like, it's not about artificial intelligence in a sort of designed, we want to create artificial intelligence way. It is this fascinating like, what creates a personality, what creates a soul. If a robot lives long enough, do like aberrations start to happen. - Which is why it tracks so well into a different context of artificial intelligence, which is as a criticism of something it couldn't anticipate necessarily, which is AI. - Right, right. - And the movie being a very obvious, now in hindsight, broadside against what would happen if we just delegate all of our thinking and ability to automated systems. - Which this movie is basically all the robots you see in it aren't trying to comfort you by seeming human. They are there to serve a specific function, right? This is just like, what if a robot did your fucking makeup? And that's the one that needs to-- - Look or impersonate a social interaction because that's part of the dynamic. But otherwise, it's just like, what is the one thing this fucking robot needs to do? And it doesn't need a face, and it doesn't need a personality. It's just gonna serve this one job that we can like, clean up. In some cases, literally make the robot that cleans up. All of the main robot characters in this movie are defined by a moment where you realize, oh, something has weirdly evolved in them, where they now have a personality, where they now take some specific pleasure in doing what they do. It is no longer programming. There is some joy in this that is basically like a malfunction. But in that malfunction, like feelings are developed. So you start with, like, Wally, the sense of pride he takes in the garbage. Is that the reason that he has outlived all the other models? - Sure, yeah, and probably, right? 'Cause like, they're all the other models burnt out. We assume, dead. - And you watch what's interested, you know, right out of yet. - He's just making architecture out of the garbage. - Right, he's doing arms. - Yeah, great thing. - And as I say, that little gesture with the wrists is just like, you see the satisfaction of like another clean wall. - But he loves to curate stuff. He's got his lunch box. - Yeah, he lives in my apartment. I get this guy. I really get this guy. - Yeah, I mean, I didn't quite made that connection, but, right. - Kind of hit me like a ton of bricks. - Yeah, because of course, like, Wally, right. Outside, he's making towers out of bricks and, you know, that's what I consider podcasting. - He lives in the garbage truck with the kind of, like, the rotating, you know, he's got the kind of the tie rack of garbage, right? Like, the curation, right. - And that was supposed to be the racks of all the other models of him. - He hangs his favorite pieces. - You know, that was one of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of ships that were just supposed to be levels of Wally's all sleeping in little boxes. He's the last one we see in the, just like, such fucking, like, clean, quick visual storytelling of his tread start to wear out. He needs to find other dead models. So you're like, this is how this one guy has survived. He's basically been Frankenstein and himself from his dead. - It's like this isn't even the original Wally at one point. He just became, yeah, the Hodgepodge of other Wally. - But you're like, right. The other guy's all burned out. Why is Wally still here? Because Wally wants to be alive. Why does he want to be alive? Because he likes doing this. It's not just that he's programmed to do this. He enjoys it and then in his enjoyment and also the isolation of everything else around him and the mission becoming impossible, you know, unending. He starts to get obsessed with the other options. - Well, it does tell us with what Stanton said, which is, you know, a rational, the theme of the movie for him that he would put on like a coffee cup so that everybody who was working with him could understand every, you know, chain in the system. What movie they were making is a rational love defeats life's programming. And so it's like, if take that to a literal place, it's like his, his love of this activity, literally overpowers, you know, the programming and the obsolescence that's coded into his programming and whatnot. - I also think Stanton is a guy who's like constantly wrestling between instincts of cynicism and sentimentality that I relate to very hard. And I think his characters and his movies are usually about that. Do you see, if you haven't already, in the blink of an eye. - It will be seen. - Okay. - We have to. - Do we have to? - Legally. - The first episode you do where no one has seen the movie. - Legally. - We must. But yes, that there's always this battle within him between the two. I also just like love the idea that it's like, he finds the pleasure in doing his job and stacking the garbage and then over time, he's starting to like pay attention to the garbage and curate the garbage and study the garbage. - Not to overplay Stanton's religiosity, which I think we were talking about mostly before we start recording, but like his vested Catholicism and whatnot that there is an issue of or an element of like stewardship over the earth and there you could easily abstract while he looking to the heavens as, you know, waiting for a sign from God. - Yeah, we agree, in fact, you know, to come down. - Indeed. And indeed, even of course, thought about the on the nose, do we call him Adam or something, but he just was like, Wally is the sad segment. Like I could, that's the best thing, you know? Like, and he's very, very smart of him obviously. - He also said Steve Jobs's single biggest contribution was that the movie was originally called W-A-L-E and he's like, I don't like that name. And then they were like, like Wally? - Adam and Ed. And then it worked exactly what Steve Jobs said, like the rapper. - I think another contribution Steve Jobs made was his money. - Yeah. - That's another one you made. - He threw his wallet, that's interesting. - Yes, and said do whatever the fuck you got. I mean, this is just like a really, it's a rare moment that is very, very short of just them feeling so empowered and having so much money to play with that they can just do whatever the fuck they want and they're confident that it will have to be supported by whoever ends up releasing it. But you get the sort of like Wally activating the video screens, the sort of physical pop-up ads of the by and large deterioration. This one company, a Walmart Costco-esque company has taken over all of the world. Our consumerism polluted everything. We had to leave the robots were supposed to clean things up except it was too late. They never fixed it and humans never came back. - It's interesting that Fred Willard's character. I mean, maybe there is a distinction made and I'm just not remembering, but he's the president of by and large but it also seems to exert the president of the United States and possibly the world. - Yes, but what I love is I feel like whenever you see his title in Kairan's, it's like he hasn't actually become the president. It's that being the CEO of B&L has maybe become more important than being the president. It is. - 100%. - Yes, it's just right. It's like a capitalist, oligarchy, whatever it is like what we became. - Does the president not matter anymore? Do they actually not exist anymore? - It's not that Walmart, you know, still Walmart's still important. But like by and large feels Walmart coded. I know it's obviously also Amazon or whatever, but like, and that does feel of that moment. - I was, there's stuff in this movie that is fascinating to watch now where you're like, the culture has changed more than I thought. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Where you're like the Walmart thing of like right. In 2008, we all agreed with like, is Walmart the most evil company that is like going to kill us. And you're like, Walmart's so far down on the list now. - There is something, Walmart almost feels cute. - Yeah, there is something quaint about this era of consumerist critique. Because we, yeah, the evils that have supplanted it, you stood on its shoulders are so much more pronounced and existential, but. - He also said like the environmental angle of this movie, he was like, this wasn't motivated by me feeling like the movie was a call to arms to shake people into action. - No, right, again, that just doesn't seem to be his vibe, but it's not a polemical. - No, but also like 17, 18 years later, I'm like, I can't believe how much fucking worse this got. And if I knew how little we were gonna do to fight this issue, I made people have made different choices. - Yeah, but yeah, at the same time, it's sort of central driving energy about humans needing to sort of regain control over their own fates and not surrender to automation and thoughtlessness and helplessness is as relevant as ever. - Well, that's the weird thing in the movie that simultaneously feels like quaint and still prescient to me at the same time, which is the greatest concern being apathy. Like people just don't wanna fucking care, they don't wanna think there's just like a complacency, which I think right now in America are one of our biggest issues, if not our single biggest issue, is that has basically been replaced with an overriding anger. There is. is like a rage that is fueling everything in all directions where the sense of being this passive is a little hard to imagine. And yet, we are on the scary precipice of our people gonna start opting out of having to do shit in order to have everything automated for them. - That's fine. - It does, but I think the movie sort of indulges in the sort of AI proponent fantasy of, oh, like when we have a full automation, no one's gonna have to work. We're all just gonna be on magnification. - But then you're like, what is life? - You've already seen that that is not at all the reality. - No, it is wild to watch it now. And it's like, there's like network-y elements of this where you're like, oh, this doesn't even read a satire anymore, but the idea that they're like by the pool and everyone's just looking at their screens and not going in. - They don't even know the pools there. - Right, I'm just like that felt really like exaggerated in 2008 when smartphones have barely existed for two years. And now they're just like, yeah, of course. The fucking traffic jams of no one looking where they're going because they're all just watching the screens. You're like, right, I get the, the heightening here is the hover chair, but the relationships at the screen does not feel heightened. And at the time, it felt silly. World's good. - World is good. Wally is good. - Wally has one friend, Gokruch. - His name is Hal. - Gukaracha. - What's his name? - Hal, because of Hal Roach. - Funny. - It's a fun show. I'm not laughing out loud. - You went, and you smiled. - You caught me. - May the listener know that as you already mentioned, Stanson says, they watched a Keaton chapel in every single day. - They were very interested in like pantomime conveying everything, right? Like, can we make a movie where you turn the sound off and know what's going on? The kind of Chuck Jones. - Well, right, there's axioms. - This axiom, of course, also, is name of the culture. - There's a true challenge of like, let's actually test our fucking bones as animators to see if we can tell a story through movement. And when you remove the kind of recognizable autonomy of a human body, then how do you convey these things? Well, I'm talking about if him not wanting to do the cheats of giving them normal human movements and whatever. And then he's also like, by doing that, you also test every other department more. If you're not gonna have words, even though we wrote those words into the script, then I'm asking the music to convey those things. I'm asking the camera to convey those things. I'm asking color to convey those things. Ralph Eggleston, who was one of like, the early Pixar guys, and is the production designer most of their movies. And was part of that Cal Arts group. He passed away 2022, I believe, very tragically. - Okay. - Was a genius. - Ralph Eggleston. - Ralph Eggleston. And the criterion release has a really nice feature that's basically like a eulogy for him, but also explaining how important he was. I brought this up a little bit in the Finding Nemo episode, but the thing of the color scripts, where they do a kind of visual script of the movie based on the color palette of every sequence, so that you can chart the tonality of like, what you wanna convey through mood and color. - He didn't need to do one of those for John Carter, red. - It's a lot of red, but Stanton said, and I'd never heard it put this clearly before. He's like, it seems a little indulgent to people on the outside, but in animation, it is not a standard thing. Eggleston basically made it a new thing because he was such a student of production design that he found out that William Cameron Menzies did these on his sci-fi movies of like the 40s. - They're crazy, 40s, British, you know? - Right. - Things to come. - Which are super kind of like, it's fresh, it's the kind that's-- - You're like, you got made, yeah. - Right, and would think about like, what are you conveying in color from set up to set up? And Eggleston was like, this was a cool thing and those movies look really cool. We should try to bring this back. And everyone thought it seemed a little indulgent and then when he did it, he was like, right, animation is so piecemeal that you don't actually see the final version of everything until the last moment. You're not getting like location scouting. You're not shooting things and being able to recognize like the color temperature in front of the lens at the time. It takes so long to add color and lighting and all of that to have that as like a guiding force at the beginning to know you're working towards really helps. - One thing I want to note in here that we haven't mentioned and it's not something I ever thought about because I've never seen this movie. A lot of people noted that like possibly accidentally while he does look like Johnny Fie, who is from short circuit. - One of Ben's best friends. - He is one of my best friends. - Though I'm short circuit to having revisited it on-- - There's some issues. - An episode of Flop House. - It solves racism. - Oh no. - It was something that I didn't pick up on as a young kid and as an adult I was quite shocked. - What's this here? - Fisher Stevens lives in my neighborhood and every time I see him at a coffee shop I'm just like immediately short circuit. - The human bomb was bad. - It feels so bad for him because he's done so much work. - You're right though, I've never thought about that. But they're very similar. - It's the eyes. - It's the eyes and sort of on the long neck. - Right. - I found that infuriating as a talking point at the time. It was a little mini version of the Avatar is literally just for a gully thing. - Where I'm like the fucking, come on. Like there's a thousand other things going on in this movie. - I agree. - I agree. So, Wally. - But Johnny V in the set. - Sure, he never did anything. Oh wait, I'm seeing that Johnny V here was a J6. - No? - You basically get-- - Wait, where was he on January 6th? - He's trying to get up the stairs at the Capitol though he's like falling over, I don't know. - It's a funny mistake. - Yeah. - Here's the sightsee. - He's next to Jay Johnston. - All right. You basically see one day of his, right? - Yeah. - And the little dreams. - You see a normal day and then you see the weird day. It's a perfect way to do it. I feel like. - Yeah, Eve comes in at like minute 13. I mean, it's like so efficient. While you feel like you've spent a lot of fucking time with him. I think a lot of that is the silence makes all those moments really you lean in and they matter more. But yes, in going back home, the organization of where do I put the spork and all this sort of stuff, the understanding of the level of feeling and thought he's putting into everything. And then his nightly ritual of like the iPod video playing the Hello Dolly sequence that he obsessively watches over and over again, I think it is such a beautiful, simplistic boiling down of like, if they're robots and they like don't have any biological drive to procreate. - Sure. - They don't make sense that they would like need romance. - Yeah. - That he's recognizing something of like what is being expressed in the statement of holding someone's hand as a show of intimacy or having companionship. It's such a nice like. - Oh, you know, God gave him hands for a reason. - It sounds good. - I mean, are they hands, I guess they're kind of like loaders or they're part of his sort of, you know, his cubing power. - He also said that basically in the time that they were developing this movie, the iPod video got introduced and he asked jobs for permission. Can I put this in the movie when it was a brand new thing? - Who among us did not watch the first episode of Battlestar Galactica on an iPad classic, an iPod classic on a slide where it's screened is like one inch long. - I was watching Lost on those on the fucking closes. - I remember Lost was kind of like the first show where they were like, like iTunes video, like you know. - Nine cents an episode. - Yeah, right. I was, I mean, I watched it on broadcast and then when an episode was good, I'd be like purchased, rewatch at school. - Wow. - But he asked jobs permission because it was such a new device and he was like, I bet by the time this movie comes out, it's already antiquated technology. And he was like sure enough, like iPhone comes out a year before this movie comes out, replaces the iPod video. It already was while he hasn't antique. - Yeah. - But here's the thing about Eve. And Griffin, I feel like you can relate to this along with me, which is that I don't know if there is a better evocation in film animated or otherwise of what it feels like to be a neurotic teenage boy and have an intense crush on somebody. - This is where I'm saying, I'm not getting to say for better or worse, this was the primary concern of my life when I was 20 years old. - Like you're odd by the girls you like terrified of them. - I just, I just terrified of them to them. - They're involved in things that are so far above your station. - Until I have a crush on someone, and then I just show them green plants, and they go catatonic. - I mean, Sims, you had to like deal with even a little later in my life, the versions of this where we be at a bar, and I'd be like, I don't even know what how would, how would I start to set-- - You once, instead of talking to a woman who I think may have been interested in, you can't remember the specific-- - Of course, the tragic irony was, they often were. - Of course. - And I would fuck it off. - Boy, shit. Drew, a picture, I wish I could find it. Let me see if I could find it, of just a sad little guy. - Oh, I remember. That's Jesus Christ. - You do remember that. - This was at videology? - Oh yeah. - This was a girl you met at videology drew a picture. - No, no, Griff was just, instead of like, being a person who talks to a person, he was just instead drew a weird little picture. - You were like, stay note like-- - No, no, no, you just shut, you get to clarify this story. - You could just give it to-- - Yeah, well, people could be talking over me. - Videology trivia. And for like 10 consecutive weeks, I turned to David, and I'd be like, I have such a crush on that girl I cannot speak to. - Yeah. - And David would be like, go talk to her, and I'd be like, I don't know how to do that. And it was one night where David was trying to like, height me up to be like, just like, walk over and say something about trivia. And instead, I drew a sad face. - You're missing out, 'cause you know it's great, then when they're mean to you. - Well, you're like, oh, well, that's, that's what Wally learns. - Sometimes they have fully loaded cannons for all. - Yeah, that's what Wally loves. - That's what Wally loves. - No, I do think this movie is one of the greatest depictions of that. And I love-- uh, the Buster Keaton movie is that lean romantic, uh, because they weaponize a similar dynamic, except the difference is the Buster Keaton often seems kind of oblivious, right? That he's love struck and then it's just sort of like him chasing after and he doesn't realize how much the world is trying to stop him, whereas Wally is like smitten and also terrifying. And it's like, yeah, it's the combination of, of being smitten, being terrified and, uh, being, there was the third thing and then you sort of took towards on my mouth. But anyway, um, odd, odd is the other thing that I think completes the. It is maybe my single favorite moment in the movie and speaks to what I was saying earlier. He sees the red dot. He's chasing it. You realize the ship is landing, right? He's hiding behind the rock. He sees her come out. Everything is very kind of routine, right? The arm comes out. It unleashes her. She activates. The her design is still so fucking cool where it's like seamless unibody thing and then the head and arms can float off to the sides and the hands, the arms can turn into fingers if need be and all that sort of shape. Well, I found a picture of Wilder. I'm so far back in my photos right now that's Wilder. Alan Smith. Yeah. What happened? Wild. I know. He must be. This is 2015. So he's probably like, I think he was like one or two. He was like two, maybe two. Yeah, that came to my mind. If you're trying to find the trivia drawing, that would be like 20,000. I know. I know. I went too far. Yes. I went too far. I think my favorite moment in the entire film is like Eve is there. She's like locked in on her mission. The ship starts to leave and you see her kind of clocking once she's out of the view. And then it's like she takes a breath and has just the joy flight. And it's that moment of, oh shit, she's like him. For some reason, she's a little different. She finds joy in doing things. She is doing things for her own satisfaction. And if he wasn't already going to be smitten just by like, I've never seen a fucking robot like that, there's a personality there. And as much as she then tries to immediately cover it and be like, I am all business, it is every robot we need who is a primary character. It's the same thing with Moe when we get to Moe. And he makes the decision to jump off the line because he loves cleaning so much. I love he do. That's his art. That's how he, you know, whatever finds joy. Every one of those activation moments is so satisfying to me. Is Moe driven by joy? Here it is. Moe driven by it. And found it. This is the drawing Griffin made rather than flirt with a girl. Let me see. Okay. We'll make sure to post that. I don't know what to say. What is his name is number three? No, I did the fuck was a joke might be like, you're not even number two. You're number three. I don't quite know. Okay. Could be a kid cutie reference. I don't think it was. We can show that. Yes, the rappers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no, but it would have pre-data that I think it pre-dates. Yeah. Well, we'll post it on the Instagram. But yes, Wally's just like chasing after her. And then there's the moment where he she hears him exhale. And then just immediately fucking like turbo canons him. Love it when she turbo canons him hottest part. It's their me cute is she think she's murdered. Gosh. Just imagine dating an egg robot with an arm cannon. Pretty cool. Obviously, she's got the cold shower into the back of blank trick two. Indirectly inspired by Apple products. But obviously, she's also kind of like a nesting doll design. Like she's got this sort of matrioshka shape, the egg. This is from Angus McLean. Who that is that the guy who the presto guy? No, that's which one is he. Am I wrong in thinking? No, Presto was in Teddy Newton. Is it is Presto Teddy Newton? Let's find out. Presto film. Because I remember like that, that director Doug sweetlin. Oh, Doug sweetlin. Mio is being like, when's he making a movie and then he ended up making Storks. You know, he left. I never saw Storks. Storks was a Nicholas Stuller joint. He wrote it. He wrote it. Did he co-directed with sweetliners? He might the only director. He might have. How was that era where they kept snuck? They were like, we only led an animation guy co-direct a movie with a live action guy or a comic. Correct. It's correct. It's to both of them. Angus McLean is the guy who co-directed Finding Dory and then directed Lightyear. What year was Storks? 2016. Because Storks was in my come to Jesus after my come to Jesus moment of recognizing that forgetting Sarah Marshall is the greatest of all works of art and culture of the last 100 years and being like, I will see literally anything Nicholas Stuller makes next. He's like, I'm directing a movie about Storks learning babies and I was like, well, I guess there's a line somewhere. That movie never saw. I found to be a bit of a rough hand. Doug sweetlin is like an incredible character animator and especially incredible at like animated comedy, physical comedy and has his responsible. That's why Presto so funny. All the hygiene. But like a lot of the best picks are physical comedy moments. I feel like the one that's always pointed at is Woody acting out in Toy Story 2 when they're like playing Woody's Roundup and he comes out of the box and is like being all hot shit. Angus McLean and Doug sweetlin felt like the two guys were like, when are they going to let them make a movie? And they let Doug sweetlin get away. Right. And then Angus makes light ear, which is worse than making a movie. It's so bizarre. It's like making an executive movie. But he did Bernie, which was the short that accompanied this. Oh, yeah. Really good. Yeah, that's fun. And he did Toy Story of Terror. Jesse finds a way. I feel like when she walked through those early picks are movies. You might like them. Yeah, it's what a blind spot for me. I'm just reading off the doshing anyway. Jesse does find a way to quote Angus McLean. She looks dangly. Eve she looks dangly and when chiming when she's in automaton mode, when she gets emotional, she does more arcs like a porpoise flying around. Yeah. Well, that's when this moment of joy where she just kind of flies around like a fucking flower. They loved the cockroach idea. Also just like that's a fun challenge like making a cockroach cute. Yeah, it doesn't have a face. It doesn't have a face. So one other note on production design, act one is all romantic and emotional lighting and then act two. They say act one and act two. You're right that the movie is really in thirds. But I guess they basically mean like planet, then spaceship act two is like gets to know the axiom act three is like the other rising. Yes. But they know act to essentially the axiom is sterility, order, clearly. It's when it goes from being buster key into Jacques Tati. Right, right. But then yes, sorry, they try to make the lighting more romantic as act two goes on. Like, you know, they try to sort of soften it as, you know, personality enters. Well, the movie starts out really washed out. Then you start to get some warmth when Eve enters. I think the most beautiful sequence of the movie is when there's like the big dust storm and he brings Eve inside and the way Eve reacts to the darkness of the room where she's like glowing and you see the weird ring of like fluorescence inside of her neck and also the reflections of the Christmas lights and everything. And the singing fish, which is between this and the sopranos was having a huge cultural moment. Billy Bass was one of our greatest. But yeah, she basically almost accidentally shoots him and then it's just like, I, the fuck are you? And then you get your sequence, the livion rose of him just kind of like following after trying to get her attention, she's just like, I'm working. I do feel like it's important to point out though that Eve comes into contact with how almost shoots how the cockroach. But instead, she likes him. She likes him and they both Wally and Eve get tickled by the cockroach. This is really sweet. But it's showing that she's kind. Right, right. But that happens before she meets Wally. It's like Wally making such an advanced overture to her. She's like, no, get away. I'm working. She wishes almost he hadn't seen her be nice to how. Maybe it wants to put on the face of all this. Maybe the best shot in the movie is right after she's exploded all of the oil tankers. Actors that shot from behind of Wally and Silhouette just sort of saddling up slowly. Yes. Also that recognizes that's the moment where it's like, oh, she's shown like a motion. In being so frustrated that she caused this much damage, that she had her fucking Adam driver punching the wall moment. But also the little game that he's like, now is my time to strike. But it's also so funny to see her and it's like it's like they convey physical tension in her body even though that shouldn't be possible. As she's watching the ships burn and she's just sort of like her eyes narrowing, like wanting the catharsis of watching something be disappointed. When she when her eye go grumpy mode. The eyes are so good. Yeah. But he he senses the opening of like, okay, if we can just exchange names, we're cooking here. Right. Right. And she's traumatized by the fact that he can't say it. Uh, wow. It's a little funny. He brings he brings her into his home. She loves his collection. Yep. It's possible. And then she laughs to showing showing her one object that is going to so blow her mind. Right. That she's also saying, well, that's that's right. You show her a boot with plant in it and she goes unconscious. But all of those gags of of handing her the light bulb and then getting so kind of like frustrated that he can't turn it on. I like. We're fixing the Rubik's Q. I like when she laughs when she goes like, yes, like or whatever. Yeah. Uh, the pop in the bubble wrap. Like she's finally just totally let her guard down as as fascinated by every object he shows her but also able to solve them so much faster. We also see him turn into a cube. Oh, you mean when he goes into like sleep mode? Yeah. Yeah. And we know that I think is charged by the sun. I think it's just awesome design. Yeah. That he not only makes cubes but is a cube. Yeah, which like, this is a classic Pixar logic thing. Stan is always the first to point out, it makes no physical sense. If you keep seeing the way his stomach opens up to be able to compress the trash, there's no space that his body could actually suck into. Sure. And it's a big fight now that can like fold on top of themselves, man, and anything's possible. They communicate it to you in movement so much that you're like, I just understand what you're asking me to accept. But yes, he's showing her all the objects. He's trying to show her hella dolly. She doesn't give a shit. She can't even like pay attention to it. And then he makes the mistake of showing her, of course, plant and boot. Do you think that if he had shown her a scene with Walter Mathau, she would have been a lot more locked in? She'd be like, and this kind of was like a major movie. Sorry. It's like, I now understand. He did like all genres. He'd be like the romantic lead in things. Mathau? [MUSIC PLAYING] I'm watching a clip. I'm watching the movie here. He makes a little Eve statue. And she's unimpressed. And then he kicks a bunch of metal pipes that it falls on her. Come on, great to die. And his little thread's like flip up. It's adorable. Yes. I mean, it's very childlike. And even as he's like sort of transitioning into like an almost parental mode, although we see him in the parental mode with the cockroach, but I don't know. If you've ever seen your child fall off a bed or something, it's like, you're so concerned for them. But immediately, it's very funny visual, I don't know. Yes. It also helps that we're here just like this guy, his center of gravity is so off. His build is so awkward that doing anything other than rolling on a flat surface, you're just like, I don't know if he's going to make it. But there's also, I mean, I don't know how deep we need to go into the imagined lore of by and large, but some practical application towards designing him to be cute on the company's behalf. Yeah, 'cause they don't want these things to be threatened. Right. Versus the robots on the axiom are less cute because people aren't even really paying attention. Right, they're all in the bowels of the ship, yeah. Do we think there's a flaw in the use design? No offense to my perfect queen. Go on. One boot with one plant is enough to turn around like a ship with 600,000 people on it. Be like, wow, earth seems ready 'cause like I'm looking at earth. It ain't like ready ready. Sure. We might want to wait for like a tree or two. But that's like centuries ago. I'm programming this setting. It's just funny that she's like, well, you know, like there's one plant baby. Yeah, that's not a flaw. It's great. It's like, yeah, yeah. She's doing her job perfectly. That's maybe a flaw in the work she's doing. You also have to imagine that their thought is, we'll put everyone on a starliner for five to 10 years maximum. And if we see the first sign of vegetation, that means, oh, it's coming back. It's ready to go back there. They didn't know that the world was gonna come that fucking awful. And the idea of this one boot making it would be so against the eye. They knew what if there is a guy on the axiom? They knew. They knew and they did nothing. Mark Ruffalo. They said it's fun. So, yeah, what else happened? Now, she's just, she's in the opening. She's just sleep mode. Come on mode. Yeah. And Wally still tries to like, you have the, the Thomas Newman kind of music, Wally doing date nights with coma eve. Oh, we got to call out, he dances for her. He does the little, it's so sweet. And he had picked up the, like, trash lid and it pays off. He's like, coughing his hat. Yeah, he's a cool guy. The top hat. I also love that then she tries to dance and she fucking shakes the whole thing and smashes him into the wall. She's a clomper. Dude, it is so funny. That would write when she, like, Hulk loquies him, right? Like you're like, I also love the moment of him. Forget how he enters the eye in the first place. And I can't remember, but when he gets the new guy, she's so embarrassed that she's like seeing him naked, having to plug the eye back in. But it also teaches you, like, what it's going to look like when he's recalibrating. Oh, it's when he falls. I'm watching here. It's after the dance slaps, slams him into the wall. He falls down and breaks one of his eyes. There's a lot of very clever, some more overt seed planting there. I think you particularly, like, the fire extinguisher, things that are just in front. I mean, even when they introduced the boot, the boot, it's not even the focus of, it's like a half second throw away. It's just part of his collection. Yeah, but they don't give it any special emphasis. No, he puts it in the fucking igloo cooler, but it doesn't get any more attention than the bra. It gets less attention than the bra. I mean, the bra kills. So yeah, that's why, because while he's rocking double the eyes, what about the, um, the lighter? Ben, there's like, it's like two robots. And on this, you know, a band in planet, and they're looking at the original source of, like, energy. Yeah, it's crazy, but the other thing Ben is in the version of the movie where Wally has to save Eve, and she is the one who gets crushed. And he's carrying her for the last 20 minutes. There was some check-ups gone of the lighter being the way they reactivated her. It's why they put a lot of emphasis on it at the beginning. It's still a nice moment, which is why I'm sure they kept it in, but it was supposed to be in some way he replaces her battery with the lighter. It's also a machine using a machine. It places them like a even more antiquated machine, it sort of places them in this continuum where you understand them as a relic, but also as a product of the future. And it's a machine with a natural force inside of it, you know? It's like organic versus an array. That's exactly right. And it's a machine that can create an element, which is so crucial just as he, you know, metal box can feel love. It's, you know, an analog, right? He's got a flame inside of him. A question that made me, a question that I had watching the first 30 minutes of this movie again, was if Disney would ever dare make a live action adaptation of a Pixar movie, or if it is a tribute to the ineffable quality of Pixar's better films that they can't be conceived of in live action in the way that Molana can. Yeah, I have that thought watching this of like, are they ever going to dare to do this? And it's like, what would it be? You know, like it's the line between this and doing a more modern, it basically becomes just like a fucking PS5 rebuild of a PS2 game. Right. Like why bother? I mean, right, which what is now the disturbing thought experiment of like, what is the most live actionable up? It's up, upper incredible. Yeah. I have gotten the sense and I say this with no inside track, but the vibe I've always gotten is that Pixar retains the right to say no to that shit. And it feels like they have to exercise every morning at 9 a.m. when they get the daily email. Yeah. Exercising it fully. I mean, this is the other space. Moana one here is no great. It's no surprise that like Disney inherits this batch of films in acquiring Pixar and Igers like, great, we're going to put our full muscle behind them. We will try to make all of these movies hits. The fucking Toy Story 3 is next, right? Like the sequel run starts right after this. Yeah. It was like, we'll treat these movies as precious jams, but you got to start fucking playing ball with us. Well, up is right after this. Then Toy Story. But up is the last of the three films of quiet, right? I'm saying the first film that Disney commissions is like Toy Story 3 now. It is like the, the Ratatouille Wally up. Toy Story 3 is bridge. A movie I like, although not as much as some. And then Cars 2 Brave Monsters you like, it's a crazy downshift. Yes, like crazy. Yeah, it's, you got to play ball now. You guys weren't fans of Cars 2? I've never seen. I have been working on this theory and I rewatched the film recently. Did you know? And I did, I truly did. You know Michael Keynes in it. It's based on true, he plays Finn McMassal. Well, truth is in truth in comedy. He plays Finn McMassal, who's a MI6 car. His sidekick, of course, is Holly Shiftwell, which is 30, 30, 30. That makes me uncomfortable. I was watching Cars 2. And I was like, you know, this really isn't as good as Cars 1. And Cars 3, which I've never loved, has at least more integrity. Now how do they all stack up against Plains 1? I was thinking that Plains Fire and Rescue makes Plains look like Cars 2. And Cars 2. It's getting too complicated. It might make Cars 3 look like Cars 1. The only Pixar movies I have not seen are Cars 2 and 3. You've seen Onward? Yeah, like Onward. Yeah, Onward's good. I've seen Onward's good. You knew the only two people I've ever met. Yeah, I've seen multiple times on the steelbook. No, I can't say. I don't know if it's steel. Nice steel. Big fan of that. The denim jacket with all the patches on. I, yeah, because I've seen, yeah, I've seen everything else. Yeah. The ones that I've seen a lot is disturbing because of my daughter. So like, well, it's not disturbing that I've seen Luca like 25 times because I like Luca. But good dinosaurs disturbing. When you told me she was going through a good dinosaur phase. That was a pretty brief phase, but it did exist. But like the turning red phase was so great. The Ratatouille phase. Amazing. Raleigh great. Luca, that's a good movie. Like, it's not my favorite. It's a simple movie. It's really easy to have on. Yes. I love it, though. I feel like you. You come around on Luca. I've always been a fan of Luca, but yeah, I feel like your son had a phase where you were happy. I think because it pushes against what we were talking about earlier like the capitalistic, you know, fumes around stuff. Right. It's fun. It feels like pointedly small. It sure does. Although I wanted to, you know, we were badmouthing with good reason, the good dinosaur, but a shout out to Peter Sone. I have definitely had a Stockholm syndrome, like experience with Elemental, which was the first movie I ever took case of the computers, did not click at the time. Can I call this out? Yeah. I mean, put them on blast. I believe it was in our winrises episode. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't here for that. Where do you have to guess on winrises? I mean, if only. No, I was here for, uh, for Castle, not the castle. Fucking house moving castle. Oh, right. Good up. Right. That's the one where I announced Matrix Resurrections. Yes. I can't remember if it was that or crazy that they let you make that announcement for all people, but you did a well. I mean, I was a big fan. There's some episode that people have invoked where you say, I will not let my son watch Western animation. This is a classic sort of like is a shit. Whereas like the one, the one thing I, I know, this child will not be loved. I would not be provided for her, but they will, they will not see any sort of CGI Western animation. You wouldn't show your kid, uh, people in movies is you were afraid he wouldn't like it. It turns out you make it turns out that you're mentally ill. It turns out the reality of raising a child. It's very different. No reality is a weird reality, my friend. At two years old, I was like, son, this is an Apple TV remote. That is the bed where I am asleep in the morning. Use this to watch whatever the fuck you want. As long as you're not waking that. So confident that you were going to hold the line of artistic purity. And then the sun is like obsessed with Italian bread. Right. He got good taste. I know just many good things. I have watched your son watch YouTube videos of 10 wordles being solved. Yeah. So I also have this competing instinctive movie, which is like, I cannot be that parent who voice the coolest kids. And you don't want to be the onion article. Exactly. I was like, it means more to me that you come to my favorite movies organically and like them on your own terms. And I'll show them to you, you know, selectively when the time is right. But I'm not going to shove them down your throat. Uh, I'm going to let you reach these places on your own. Um, I elemental was what was playing. I wanted to take it to him. He came back around an elemental in a huge fucking way. And he really my daughter did have an element. I just want to call out a very distant conversation. I remember having with you, which was I feel like I'm almost ready to take Ace to see a movie, but his first movie needs to matter. And I was like elemental. What matters more than elemental? And you looked at me and said, my son's first movie is not going to be a Pete zone. Wow. Uh, well, and like, six weeks later, you were like, took Ace of the elemental. And I said, it was raining or something. It sure was. It woke up. It was the Sunday afternoon. It was raining. And uh, those are dark times for a parent. I love seeing the movie. Listen, New York City's own Pete's own respect. Uh, but I also took your son to you took him to Totoro because I could not you were like, I couldn't sit there and watch him potentially not like it. Men's whole illness. Wallet. It was the same screen that you took your daughter. I was like, I'm having a meeting with my son. And you were like, if if he doesn't like it, just don't tell me. I mean, my daughter, but like the difference between my daughter has seen Totoro like 20 times. So it was one of her first movies. And my, my daughter, uh, who is a lot more pliable and responsive to, you know, the studio, I believe it all is obsessed with and turn me on to really converted me to the power of Ponyo, uh, which she now wants to watch you do that or Totoro. That was my daughter's first time. Right. But Totoro was like, good. Uh, yeah, dude. Elemental has some charm. Yeah. Great music. Uh, I mean, I struggled to locate the charm of elemental and I've seen it. It has some weight as a little bit of a nuisance, but it's the main character. But I like, I like when Ember speaks fireish, uh, I find all of it. I like the element driving under lower brother. Yes. Listen to you. Do you own that film elemental? I do not ban it. It's actually a really good question. I don't know. I was, but uh, because Disney sent me a free copy. Okay. I was maintaining. I do have a blue. I was maintaining not even a 4K. No, they sent me a blue. And I was like, I'll put it on the shelf. They were like, do you care about the K is on this one? Uh, I was maintaining a own every Pixar film. And even in the pandemic, I like broke down and bought 3D blue rays of good dinosaur. And maybe cars too. Another one I like didn't like. And elemental was the one where I was like, I don't need to own this in any form. Thank God. I'm truly relieved. Now, who knows? Two months from now, I might hit a rough patch and start trolling eBay for the elemental seal book. But as of this moment, I own elemental in no form. I don't even say right now. My daughter's first movie in theaters will by no means be minions, monsters and minions. I'm always like, and I think it's time for me to catch up with the minions bounce off of me. I have never gotten it without any judgment. But I see that trailer. And I'm like, do I gotta do the fucking deep? It is a little galaxy brain to be like, the minions obviously love earlys, like Swardensandle cinema. Of course. I think that's fine. That's great. Is this their like Wally moment? You know, where Pierre coffins like, I've made you so much fucking money. Right. I want to make my passion project. Right. Yeah. I can use the minions to express my interests in the in the birth of cinema. I feel like nobody liked the second minions, right? Rise of grew. That was the one I feel like really past, you know, that's the only one I've ever seen. But you could slap the word minions on anything and it would min to hit. You could have the minions, minions and mosquito coasts. Yeah. You have the episode right here show that most recently aired. And that thing would print money. Minions and solo. Well, maybe monsters and minions will have a shout out to a solo. It doesn't really fit into the fight. But why not? Yeah. Minions movie needs it. Three could be entirely solo dependent. I feel like that would fit very organically. That's another one. I don't get this fucking thing. Okay. So they get to the axiom. I think we need to get to the axiom now. Right. Taxiom time. He's just trying to take care of her, right? As she is now infirm basically and shut down until her ship returns to retrieve her. But he's staying out in the elements. He's getting struck by light and he's getting rained on. Yeah. But he's then covering her up with the garbage cans. Yeah. He's really sweet. And but her ship comes and he has to make a split second decision, which is like I'm going to grab onto the back of a fucking spaceship because I don't want to lose her and I don't know where she's going. Him telling the cockroach to stay put where it is is as anthropomorphized as I think Wally ever gets. Yes. And now two hours into the episode we've hit the 30 minute mark, which is when he blasts off into space. Yes. And you have the beautiful sort of five minute sequence of him seeing the solar system touching the rings of Saturn. Just beautiful shit. We argued in the Finding Nemo episode that that's Thomas Newman's best score. And I think it's the best like use of the Thomas noon and thing. Thomas noon and the great Tom noon and who recently died. I think Finding Nemo was the best version of what Thomas Newman does really well. I was surprised rewatching this how different it is from most of his work. It has the strains of the motifs. But I think partially because the movie is putting so much more weight on the score to convey story, it has like five different tonalities that switches in between. And it feels like this sequence where it's, you know, the kind of like magical beauty of the stars is when Newman goes into Newman mode for the first time. And they're flying too close to all of these planets. They are. But he lands at the axiom, which is a luxury starliner where babies just do baby shit. And he meets the main character of the film. Mo. Mo. Mo is incredible. And I feel like Mo had largely kind of been hidden from the marketing. I think they hit a lot of the axiom stuff. They really front loaded. Yeah, they did because I remember everyone being so focused on this movie and being like, and if you watch the trailer, it does look like it's not all on the plan. There's one shot of the captain in the trailer. Right, yeah. But no one was really prepared for any of that, which I think might have been also part of why it did bounce off some people. Like some people did bounce off it a little bit. I also think, I mean, I, I compare it to like shit like full metal jacket, right? Where it's like often Wally is compared to full metal jacket. Yeah. It doesn't feel like you had a lot of people being like Wally sucks. No, but I think you had a lot of people who are like the first act is something that nor me take amongst my friends. Right. First act, incredible. Second act is fine. It goes from being like, right, perfect to being really good. I always like the purity of it is, it's just astonishing where you're like, I can't believe they're getting away with this and it's working. I agree. And I think it's all good. I love the first act. And I think it's so special. But I think the movie needs everything that happens. I, the sci-fi kind of dork that I am just love the axiom. And I love all of the kind of like kids version of rebelling against, you know, the ship computer. And it's just like, it's, it's classic sci-fi storytelling that I respond to. I think it's so well done. I also, and I like that it's goofy farce. Yes. Like that it is like a mad epic. That's where you feel the reared into, of like bringing in a Simpson's gun. And obviously, the, just the Pixar, you know, like, yeah, there's ink has a bit of that. And of course, I also, I, I really like that. captain. There are so many two versions of this where you're like, this is the cop out that we finally introduced a character who can speak all the subtext and explain everything directly to camera. But I think the arc of the captain is really well rendered. And I completely agree. The captain could have used a wife who kept telling Wally to get the fuck out of her house. That really would have added a bossy face. Well, that auto's kind of his work. Yeah, auto the true villain of that. Right. There's Captain McRae, Jeff Garland's character who does not, he's only called the captain really, but who is not a villain. Right. And then auto voiced by Mackins, Mackins, it is voiced by, and credited in the uncredited. Mackin talk. Mackin talk. It's called Mackin talk. Right. Right. Which was that that era's talk to. When is deliberately that the antagonist of the film is the only one not to have any sort of trace of human? Right. Benberg didn't do that. They just typed words into a computer and that's the Mack voice. Portal is the year before. Right. The portal connection was strong. But I think it's in parallel thing. It's parallel. Right. Because it's not, but I remember at the time, portal, obviously, the greatest video game I've ever made equal to only by portal two, like not being able to shake that comparison. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously, glatos, obviously auto is a lot more how visually coded. I mean, the red eye at the center is kind of dominant. But yeah, I mean, I think it was like the Mack aesthetic combined with evil super intelligence gives you glatos, slush auto. But I just want to talk about Mo. I just, I married Mo as I alluded to earlier in this episode. And well, can you speak on that? Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to in that sort of pause, figure out how best to do that. You're a wife of lovely human being. One of my favorite people. And I don't project what you're saying. You're like as derogatory, but I need you to unpack it. So the audience understand every time your wife texts me, like, you know, are you going to this screening tonight? Like, you know, David's out. And I'm like, no, divorce him. I'm just in me. I'm just like divorce. I'm like, divorce. If she could carry our children up to our fourth floor lock up. But I am definitely the every relationship needs a Wally and a Mo and Eve is sort of off in her own lane. She's the other woman as far as I'm concerned. But yeah, my, on one of our first dates, I drew similar to how Griffin drew a sad version of himself at a bar. I drew a crude, maybe the best thing I've ever drawn as someone to know or to sit down with, so ever, a, a little character of Mo on her legs. And on both across both legs. And the ballpoint pen. It turned out pretty well. A lot of just boxes. She identified this movie as a shared point. Yes. We've been dating, fuck, we've been dating, started dating 16 years ago. So you're too after Walla. Yeah, I mean, we, we knew each other since college, but we didn't start dating till get drunk one night as happens. But the, um, yeah, she is very compulsive towards cleaning. And I am more of a Wally type in that I like arranging and collecting things that other people might think of as trash. I did appreciate there's a thing on the criterion desk where the stanton calls out that he is an obsessive physical media collector. And it's like the balance between being like, I buy these things, they give me comfort, they make me happy. I want to be in a room surrounded by all the things I care about. It doesn't actually solve anything. I'm not critical of Wally's compulsion. Right. Of course. And I, but I wonder about Mo. And you know, it's sort of the classic one must imagine. Sisyphus happy sort of thing. Like is he delighted or she delight they? I mean, the robots are aggressively coded in this movie. Mo not so much, but aggressively gendered, I would say. But is Mo happy to have the excuse to pop out of letting clean something or is Mo more irritated? This is a question I am often asking in couples therapy with my beautiful. But, but you know, Mo is when Mo sees the dirt trail goes, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Moments. He lives on a, he lives on a, he lives on a, he lives on a, he lives on a, he lives on a line. Yes. Again, from portal two, I mean, everyone on the axon basically, the axon all runs on lines. Right. His big moment obviously is, is daring to jump the line and one assumes, tempt death. Like, I, I feel like he's thinking like, if I jump the line, will I just explode or shut down or something. But like his job is to obsessively clean everything and what is a very sterile environment. And Wally enters the ecosystem covered in dirt and creates a new. But does this give Mo a purpose that Mo has never had before, justifying Mo's life and therefore should Mo not be pleased to have the opportunity to clean up after. I think that's a great question. I think similar, when I was saying like what defines Mo and makes him similar to Wally and Eve is that he takes pleasure on what he does. And you said, is it pleasure? Is it like obsessive compulsive? There is an argument that Mo is like mentally ill, rather than like driven by joy, but it still is an aberration that gives him a personality. I feel like we're broaching territory that it's no longer fair to discuss without my wife. I speak not of your, your lovely. Yes. Anyway, I will say that the dynamic between Wally and Mo is I think a very complicated and familiar one to me. Yes. And I love Mo very much. Mo is so funny. Everything about him. His like his intensity. Yes. Very intense mindedness. I mean, he's earlier on a journey that Wally is far along on. And even Eva is a little further along on. Right? Like we're watching just the beginning spark of rebellion or consciousness or whatever. That's the question is like, Wally and Eva, when they start sort of deviating, is it at first out of an obsession that then they let turn into a joy, you know? It's very recondo. Yes. But Wally has. For hundreds of years, we assume been iterating and thus getting weirder and weirder. This is most first moment of activation. Right. And then the other droids we end up seeing the kind of like, I figure with a car in condominant. Yes. But the sort of like reject bots. Yeah. Are all like they've had their first kind of diagnostic bay. Right. Right. Aburant behavior. That is maybe the activation of something. I'm just watching a Mo video now. It's just so fun. He's so disgusted by Wally. He's so filthy. I think Mo's a little trapped. Like even just within the Pixar canon and the characters that are like, often. Mo was in line to replace Tim Cook it out. Yes. I think he was one of the three. I think he should have. There's a lot of politics. You know, Mo doesn't know he's, you know, he's tough to the big personality. No. I like that the way he says his name has all this wind up to it. Like Wally, it's effort. Like Wally and like Eve can get out quickly and Mo it's. Mo. He's just efficient. Just want to clean so bad. That's all he wanted to do. He just want to clean. Okay. So Wally is chasing after Eve. We get to the roadway. Yes. And we see another aberration, which is that we're seeing the humans. They're, you know, laying on these little beds. Right. And yeah, there's like chairs. It's a chair bed. Yeah. Chair bed. Which I'm assuming there's a toilet built into it. I think we know it's option necessary. That's going on. Yeah. Yeah. Wally runs into the first human. This is where we start to get right. The key thing of can Wally just start to throw things a little bit off out of whack, right? The amount of dirt he introduces in the ecosystem makes Mo jump the line. Him chasing after Eve knocks John off of his axis. He's looking away from the screen for a second. He makes the introduction. And I think it's a beautiful moment of Wally introducing himself and John being like, uh, uh, John. Like he's out of habit of needing. I think he probably hasn't done it. He knows what his name is, but he's sort of like, what am I? What do I do here? When was the last time he met a new person or a new anything? Yeah. But I do need to give a shout out to the brain bug computer that I will never be able to look at without thinking of the brain bug from Starship Troopers. The secretariat with the little thing. And I love that we don't really go back to that guy, but it's, I say guy. But the same thing of like Wally waving makes them sort of look at their own articulation point and be like, can I express an emotion? There's a go for the go for. Well, those, that's, they're like, they are legion. But there's the first mate one that's the one that like tries to, yeah, in the, uh, plant, I mean, they suck their cops. They're, fuck them, huh? They're, they're little fucking dwee trying to think of other Wally robots. Um, the, the painting one is named Van Gogh. All right. That's a little too cute. It's really good. Um, but then you have the beautician bots. You have the boxing robot that's supposed to be the watch out. Yeah. I don't know what his job would be. No, the idea is that he's for like physical training. He probably has not been used in a while. Yeah. He's supposed to be the exercise bot that like, he's like the vision pro of the ship. Right. Right. He's your coach and you have the defibrillator bots. You have the vacuum cleaner bot. That one this year that also has allergies. Yeah. I'm just like, there is an incredible amount of entries on the Pixar wiki. There's a golf bot called birdie. Oh, sure. You see, yes, you see the guys on his own short film. Uh, yes, yes. There's also bird comma Brad who made a lot of movies. - He did. - He did. - Thank you. - Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for indulging that. Yes. Yeah. What is Bernie? Bernie's like a welder, right? Bernie's a welder outside of the ship who gets locked outside. And it's sort of a blackout gag of like, what's this guy going to do? And Angus McClain pitched like, what if there's a subplot of him trying to get back into the building? And Stan was like, we don't have room for this in the movie, but like, I think that's a good short idea. And this was the era where there were enough shorts being commissioned as developmental to play in front of movies, but they also always wanted a short on the home video. Yes. You had your Jack Jack attack. You had your Bernie, you had your Mike's new car, but Bernie is really fucking good. They're often good. I always worried. I always thought with those like wondered with those like, isn't annoying at Pixar where it's like, hey, you got this sort of cute spin off versus the original short like, I feel like more people might watch it, but it's I think shadow. Yes. It's a little bit of a double-edged sword. My daughter's in touch with Jack Jack attack was very intense. They basically fall off a cliff right after this. Yeah, because Jack Jack attack was directed by birds. Yeah, birds involved with that. But a lot of these things are gifts to parents, especially in the streaming era, whose kids are obsessed with these movies. And instead of watching Frozen 2 for the 97th time, you can watch Frozen Fever or Olaf's Snow would vent whatever the fuck it's all. Well, that one that they played before. Hoko that started a mutant name. It's like 40 minutes long. It was insane. But the one on it starts Olaf. The one on up, they don't even fully fuck animate. Yeah. It's like on the disc as like story reals where they were like, yeah, we ran out of time money on this one. But I find shorts before now like bringing kids to a movie, a short before movie is very, very anxiety inducing for me because there's a narrow window where the kids' attention will be locked in enough to the movie and the candy won't fry their brain. I can't drop it. It's a very different. I think elemental was the last one. Your anxiety is too high, I would say. Wait until bebop and rock study are a little bit older and exerting that boy energy. It is very possible. Did you see what I placed on your desk, David, in the little tray? You know, you always struggled to remember which one's bebop and which one's rock study. I gave you a little study guide that has a photo on one side in the name on my bebop, as I think I've told you, the toys are still in separate crypts. bebop has bebop, rock study has rock study. But at the start of every morning, bebop demands both. Like he points like, you know, like I give him both. Yeah. And then he plops in my lap and holds them. Okay. And what is rock study doing now? He's still drinking his bottle. My bebop drinks his bottle like done, you know, which is his energy generally. Whereas rock studies a little bit more like, I shall pause, you know, I'm going to want to drink. Bebop is not going to be a big fan of short films before films. I'm bebop is the one I have my eye on reattention. He's got some bruiser energy, too. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you brought us everything. A very funny picture of rock study reading a book. The other is he so far. He looks like a little intellectual. I mean, that's just what is my rock study likes to find a corner. He likes to find like an egress. You know what I mean? Like if there's a part of the room that he can kind of wedge himself into, that's where he wants to. And then he Adam drivers the wall. No, no, no, I'm saying like he then he picks up his book or plays with that rock studies. Whereas bebop likes to just like walk around and throw shit and stack things and, you know, put things another thing, you know, classic baby stuff. Um, my crazy children. Other robots is the flashlight. There's the umbrella. I mean, there, there's so many of them. There's the makeup robot. Yes. But what I like is that I, it feels like one of the things that's activating all these robots is that they're barely kind of engaged with anymore. There's something about much like Wally. They're forced to do a routine behavior over and over again without even engagement. Like when you see the golfing robot. And it's they're watching the screen rather than watching the bot itself. Right. Yeah. Um, yeah. Everyone's, it's like they're depressed. They're just in a days. Yeah. And Captain Craig is the one who's sort of like half in. Yes. He is the one whose brain has to be the most awake, even though it's only a little awake. He doesn't, he does have to do like talk to other people, but he needs to perform. He needs to get on a fucking zoom and do the announcement. He's like, you're getting a new cup this week or whatever, you know, whatever your purchase. Yeah. Right. His brain's still a little bit active and he thinks of himself as more engaged than the right. He's the only thing only person who has even an illusion of responsibility. Yes. Even though at this point, it's like to what end auto doesn't even wake him up. No. No, I mean, he does the morning announcements. This is only joy. Right. And the idea of switching from day to night, which no one even notices. Like he oversleaps and then sets the time back to morning. I love that. So that he can do the morning because he's the only thing he gets to do. He loves to do it. He he asleepy king. He's a good boy. Um, obviously his big triumph is walking. And to me, it's another just triumph of physical animation as good as the robot stuff. Yeah. He's like making his walking like compelling, you know, he's like, okay, I got to actually get on my feet and walk. It's so funny that the uniform they've made it's just like one side. He's right. And so it's just to come. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Do you think like children immediately understand the spoke Zarathusha as like, yes, this is of course the music you play when someone is evolving. That it's like so hardwired and for DNA at this point. So it's like, you know, it's like the fucking, oh, this is what you play when someone's graduating. This is what you play when someone's getting ready to play the magic music. Yes. This should play the graduation. Yeah. Yeah. But I like that it is this sort of reactivation of curiosity that that drives him. Well, it's the, yeah, the machines becoming more like humans. The humans have already come machines, but then the humans then have to reactivate it into their humanity. Right. The two-pronged thing of all these qualities. Eva showing up with a specimen. And he's like, wait, specimen, right? That's what I'm supposed to be waiting for. Yeah. But it's been so long that it's felt like it could even happen. I don't even know how to react to this. His moment when auto hands him the like guidebook. And he lifts up the one page and it's like, wow, what do you look at that? Right. I think he speaks to it at first. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty great. He talks into it like a tablet. But I do think it's always a morbid line for me when Fred Willard says that like, oh, just a few laps around the jogging track and your bodies will be right as rain again. It's like I think in reality when they go back down to Earth's gravity, they are going to be plops. They're not going to be able to. Again, it is hard. It's hard to imagine quite what their life will be. You know, this is why they put in the uncredits sequence because when they did the test screening of the almost finished movie, the first note everyone got back is like, well, I don't think they survived. Right. Don't they just die? Right. And they were like, we have to like put something on that tells them like, they're going to do the work. Well, figure it out. We'll see how far the work. Yeah. And that's basically the credit. Yeah, the cute like over that. Is it Peter Gabriel? It's Peter Gabriel because this is the year. This is this is slum dog. I'm going slum dog. Jaiko beats this for best original song. I have a I have a logic question. We see babies. Now I think there's a crash question. There's some harvesting going on. I think this is an artificial situation. Okay, because I was going to say, how do they now? How are they extracting these things? I don't know. Yeah. Are they come in or they just test tube in? Who knows? Yeah. Are they Jeffrey Tuben? Because we see the release. There are two ones in a row. They're on zoom all the time. They might actually have to do what's the last time someone didn't Tuben. We see the relationship with the two humans. Yeah. I don't remember the character's name. It's John and Mary, I think, but it's clearly like voiced by caffeine imaging. People haven't touched one another. Yes. The act of them just making skin contacts. It would be like an older and old boy. They just like instantly eject. It is funny. They're like, okay, let's not make two songs from slum dog. One song from Molly. I think we're done. I got that. There's one that I'm sure they couldn't even care to nominate five. Right. They're like, yeah, you know what? I think that covers the songs of 28. That I and Warren didn't have something important. I should like written a frost mix and so was oh six. The year we're dream girls has three out of the five song nominations. And then they're like, what are we doing here? And then I think they sort of went. I think they went to a sort of like, it can be up to five, but it can be smaller. It can be lower and no movie can get more than three girls to get three. I don't know what article it's about Diane Warren, the scourge, the scourge, the scourge of Oscar season. And I saw, I don't use Facebook anymore, but I got an email that said, Diane Warren has sent you a message. And I was too afraid to look at it for an entire calendar year. And then finally, after she lost another Oscar, I was like, I'll go check what it was. And it was just a smiley face. It just is so funny. We need to rip off that fucking band. And give her an award. But she has to stop writing songs for movies that are like, Diane Warren, the Diane Warren, where she wrote a song for a documentary about how she always loses a fucking Oscar in the scourge. Sometimes you lose. She's like, we're not giving this to you. I'm sorry. Like, fucking famous people write songs. Sometimes you, like David Mime's holding a microphone while he was singing that, even though he is sitting in front of a mic. The documentary, the documentary about her. I mean, she does. She does it. She has written a lot of great songs. I don't want to be overly harsh, but like she is so embittered, even when she lost to like, fucking like Billy Eilish, like Lady Gaga for a starsboard, which was like, she was never gonna lose her. Right. You're not winning this year, but she also rode the stars up her shit and walked some. Right. The problem is that there were so many years where it felt like this category was so irrelevant, where people were like, do you just fucking eliminate it from the telecast entirely? And we should have given it to her one of those years. Now that I want to find it. I want to find when do we give it to? The last 10 years has been like songs that people actually know written by giant pop stars. She's not going to beat her chances. I'm just going to give you some of her losses. Her first nomination was for nothing's going to stop us now from mannequin, an incredible song. What beats her? Time of my life from dirty dancing. You're not beating that. No, but you're like in any other year. Maybe. Yeah. But I think that's like, okay, here's when she should have won. It's her second, although I wouldn't give it to her. But her second nomination is for because you loved me. Oh, which beautifully sung by Celine Dion from the forgotten film of close and personal. It loses to you must lovely from Evita, which is ass. Yeah. That will be called ass song. That should have been her winner. We couldn't have we did a lot of the correct winner there is that thing you do. Yeah, which is better and was nominated and was nominated. Yeah. But if they give it to Warren, that's still better than the stupidity. So that's nomination two. Nomination three is how do I live from Conair? A banger of great hilarious that is from Conair, but a banger. What beats it? My heart will go on. Yeah. You're not winning. Break. You're not going to win in the year after that. You don't want to miss a thing. So the next year she has, I don't want to miss a thing from Armageddon, beautifully sung by Erasmith. There she loses to when you believe by the Prince of Egypt. I think we could have given it to her. I think that's also really like right. I got pretty sick of it. But like I don't think there's a huge problem skipping fucking when you believe there's definitely an element of continued injustice that has fueled her. The next year she has what's it called music of my heart for music of the heart. Well, that's she's starting to get that. That loses to you'll be in my heart from Tarzan. And that's obviously blame Canada. Right. But that's an in sync Gloria Estefan song. I remember in sync performing at the Oscar. I definitely remember Gloria Estefan as my winner, but you'll be in my heart. That okay, talking about that's the one she loved me from Toy Story two year. That's what should have won McLaughlin and Newman. Now, I'm going to shoot you in the head. Don't do that. Now, the next, then her next nom is for there you'll be from Pearl Harbor. A terrible movie with, it's a, it's regular Diane Warren. It's diet. What's the fucking con air song? I'm already forget. It's very similar. Yeah, it is. It loses to another situation of the Oscars giving someone their, their much delayed award. Randy Newman for, if I have you, right? So, so they had to give it to Newman. Then 13 year drought. That's Warren vanishes because I feel like the kind of work she did was no longer needed, right? Those are the years where she could have eaked out a wind. What's the hero we wanted? Yeah, not the one we deserve. Is it the, the sexual assault on campus movie? Is that in between that hunting ground? Yes. And Pearl Harbor is the her song from Beyond the Light? It's grateful. Oh, yeah, which is pretty good. Yeah. And that loses to Glory from Selma. So she could have won there too. No, Gloria is strong. It's fine. Glory strong. It did make her time cry. Let's also remember that year was the whole thing where Selma only got two Oscar donations. And it suddenly was only Selma. And it was like, if we don't give Selma the Oscar when we look like assholes, she definitely could have won for the documentary about sexual assault with Lady Gaga's song. And Joe Biden. And Joe Biden. Yeah. Because writing on the wall from Spector was a song that sucks. Another loser. Yeah, terrible. That's the sandwich one. Yeah, especially given the one that we eventually heard the song that radio had. Yeah, that's incredible. So like, I do feel like into that night, everyone thought she was finally going to win. And the fact that Joe Biden was on stage presenting the song with Lady Gaga, it was like, this feels like a moment. And then they were like, you know, whatever. Since then, it's been like, stop it. Because like, the nominations have been for Marshall, RBG, break through the life ahead, which was like an Italian movie break through. Breakthrough was a Chrissy Metz. Yeah, she's like stuck under the ice. Of course, Lucas. I can't die. Sometimes you're under the ice. I don't know. They pray a kid back to warmth. That's really what the movie is. Like these movies you've never heard of the life ahead for good days, which is the, like, Neal Acunis heroin addict. David, why are you reading off my Spotify rack? Then in 2022, the Oscars are like, here's an honorary award. Stop it. She gets four more nominations after that. Tell me like the woman or the layman hot. Yeah. She got nominated for the Cheeto movie. What's the song? It's called the fire. Is that the year that Billie Eilish beats her for the second time? I mean, I don't think she was ever going to win, but it does. Yes, Eilish wins for Barbie. That's the year that I'm just can should win. Yes. And instead of giving it to the Eilish song, but the do-leapest song wasn't even nominated. She's too hot for the Oscars. Yeah, I can't believe they never give Oscars to hot people. The six triple eight, and then yes, last year, she was nominated for the movie Diane Warren Relentless. And Relentless, she is. And we cannot deny that. And I just like that it wasn't even considered to give it to her. You felt like everyone who wrote her in an nomination ballot put parathenical, but I'm not giving her the way in the golden year. Yes. All right, Wally. Wow. Just to end this tangent, to close this loop, what do you think she would need to do to win? Like if we were like, I think right, oh, well, like regarded song from a movie that isn't like Diane, you're not going to rope a dope bus into giving you a competitive win. We're not going to be shamed by you. Like we stopped being embarrassed at nom 10 and you're like nom 24 like exactly as you were alluded to earlier. Now that it is also not just for the end credits, but baked into the meat of movies nowadays, like very strong original songs by major artists. And I think that has never been so difficult. It's come back to like golden. You're like, right, like you're not. This is not a kitty category. I mean, like these are right big pop songs make it. And the days when she was writing songs to compete with golden, they existed, but they are so funny that they were like con air. Okay. It's like a really violent, orated movie about like cons on the near plane. Like do you think we need a fucking just about what this is the air I miss, which is what I refer to, even though often this was not the proper title blank, blank, blank, parenthetical love theme from any like action movie or disaster movie later on or I think is famously the one I always show people because it feels like this was too late for this to be happening. It feels like an aberration that snuck through and I'm constantly pointing out and saying like, can we bring this back is Adam Lambert's time from miracles love theme from Roland Emmericks 2012, which has a music video of him, like all decked out in leather and spikes walking through the wreckage over like shots of John Cusack, driving a limo over like the fucking Pacific range. My friend care. Watch this video once a month. I've had Carolyn never seen it about this day. I watched it recently. Rewatched it, but I didn't say it's kind of crazy how in that movie, the first lady dies like, right? Like she dies. She's returned to area 51 and she's like, goodbye wife and I'm sorry husband and daughter. They're like five minutes later. Never everyone's like high-fiving. She's like killing America. Like she says happy and dependent state that he's like, yeah, happy and dependent state of you. Like they're just like, I mean, it's already a movie where like no one sits down and it's like, I think a billion people are dead. Sure. Like they are just booming cities one by one. The question is like, should Diane Warren have hitched her wagon to Feige and gone like every Marvel movie needs a love song sung by like a Grobin. The Grobin sounds like a robot and wallet. I am the Grobin, the MCU other than just the theme song itself. There are the Mankin songs in Captain America, the first Avenger that are fun. That I actually think should have been nominated to get cut down a little bit in the film. Did they not nominee one of them, the star-spangled man? I think they didn't. Yeah, that's the one time where they wrote and then I guess the Hawkeye TV show has the fake. Don't know what that is in America. Okay. Wally. Wally. Wally. Okay. So the plant get take it. The plant get take him. Eve is deemed defective. Well, you have, she's brought up. He's like, oh my god, plant life, chest opens up. Nothing in there. What the fuck? We the audience also go, what the fuck? It's another good stand move where he originally had the audience see auto clock that Eve had the plant and organize hiding it. It's another deleted scene that you can see in storyboard form. And he was like, a, I think we need to stay with Wally's perspective until basically he starts to get crushed. And b, the audience is going to follow you and b, they're going to lean in on the intrigue of genuinely where did the plant go? It helps us the we can't figure out what happened. It's a, it's classic Pixar, you know, Toy Story 2 them looking for the bag. Yeah. Monsters think obviously like the door chase, right? It's good. It's a good way to end the Pixar. I know it became schematic for them, but like it's good. It feels like a matter. trick two where it's like, we've been watching Eve this whole time. Her chest has been closed, where the fuck did the fucking plan go? And that's of course what Captain McCrae says, verbatim. Where the fuck did the fucking plan go? Every magic trick has three parts and the second one is Wally. They throw the plates a great shot of Wally poking his head out of the tube. Eve's defective, they put, they put the red kind of like cable fucking lock thing on her. They put, yeah, it's like the boot and send her down and Wally's chasing after. We meet the other reject bots. And, you know, what do they call the rogue robots? They're also fun, you know, island and misfit toy boys. Cuckoo's nests kind of mental hospital vibes. Yeah, exactly, right. The weirdo's plaster behind him in slow motion. And they all run rampant through the hallways of the axioms. Fun. And then eventually at some point they wind up, oh, he winds up in the escape pod. Well, they're wanted and all of those, those aren't the gofers, but those sort of like big screen guard bots have taken the photo that now everyone's waking up a little bit by the danger of our robots turning on us, which is another example of Wally starting to create the ripples that affect everyone. Right. The whole system runs on everyone behaving like it does not run if the robots have their own idea. And some things that's just alarming enough to break everyone out of the trance. But I guess basically in running away and hiding out from the guards, they see the gofer trying to eject the plant. The gofers got the plant in his tummy and he puts it in the escape pod. And Wally wants to go after it. What were you gonna say to it? I just, that's the idea that I love of like this. He's been infected with consciousness, right? And like he brings consciousness back to all these people who've lost it. Like it's not just the robots coming to life. It's everyone coming away. That's why I love this movie. Yes. I agree with you. That's good. And that's why, yes, everything on the axioms important. I think when I was 22 and I saw this movie in theaters and I was so hyped for it and was then like probably mad that it was not like a Philip K. Dick styled Gonzo depressing fable of, you know, like I was like, oh, I don't like all the kind of farcey kid shit at the end, like boring. And now I just watch that. I'm like, that's the point of the movie as much as anything else. And it's so funny. Like, and it's so fun to watch with a kid who loves all the eddics, of course. Sorry, I was just pulling up my iPad, but that's the other part of it is she's bleeding him to the escape pod because she wants Wally to leave. Right. That she's actually fully angry at him. Right. Is like the fuck are you doing here? The plants gone. It made, it made Eve look bad. This is your fault. Yeah. I got this stupid fucking thing plugged into my head now. I'm on like all the wanted screens. And in trying to get him to go into the escape pod, they then see the go for show up hiding the shadows, put the plant in there. And Wally gets stuck in the escape pod, trying to save the plant, which she then thinks explodes. You see a moment a little bit of Wally being all manic in the port hole. Yeah. It's like about to explode. And the fucking parachute coming out like all the crazy gag shit. And then the no, no, no, no, no, no, no, of Eve actually. She does care. She doesn't want him to die. And then like one of 10 check-off gun moves this movie has is like, Oh, right. We saw him learn how to use the fire extinguisher on Earth. He knows how to use this. He can propel himself. They start dancing, define dancing. Right. Because Captain McCray has also already now watched Eve's camera. And he's like, the fuck is this place? Earth. It's not the cute paradise of my storybook. Shreeze water. It's basically the same plot as under the skin. I guess of like a creature becoming increasingly humanized. You know, in this case, not to their detriment. And Captain McCray, getting obsessively falling down a Wikipedia rabbit hole basically. Right. I guess it's important to remember we then restoring the planet. They do have the robots. And the robots will be helpful. Now, where are they going to put all the cute garbage and stuff? I don't know. It does feel like that's got to go somewhere. Well, my thing is send it into space. Put it on the action. That was probably the way they could have resolved the problem in the first place. Instead of building a ship to get humans to leave the planet, fill the fucking ship with garbage. They send it out to space. So like the low orbit, anyway, is so cluttered with satellites. Thanks to Elon Musk. Thanks to Elon. You know, that it's like they can't even that's already their backyard is full of junk. But I wonder if the robots, like the character robots are not going to want to do their functions because they have now discovered love in the joys of life and whatnot. And they're going to have to rely on the wall A's and sure, but you see in the end credits the way that like the robots are helping with the efforts, the way their programming can be reapplied to making the farming and such. Yeah. Yeah. They're going to make a pizza. Well, like I would feel bad asking Wally to like go mix, take on my trash for me or something like he's got stuff to do. He's got dates. He's really got to put the work in on this relationship. If it's ever going to survive, you have the divine dancing thing, which I just think is so beautiful. Beautiful. Then creating their own like colored trails. That is between you and fucking unleashed. Yeah. That is a really. This is what it's it's the argument that like it's the other one. I think you could say is his best score only because it forces him to do a lot of stuff outside of his usual. Yeah, you've got to quite challenging, I think. And then you have moments where it's like, and Tommy, I'm going to let you do your shit on this one. He actually, the whole score was written by AI. It's like writing me a pretty score. Well, it was written on David by David when he was sad about missing his mommy. Oh, David, we're talking about the one from AI. Yeah. His love is real, but he is not. There's just too many David's in the room right now. I'm sorry. Too many David's. You see lost score obviously to the slum dog, I guess, which does have, you know, pretty aggro music. Yeah. Thomas Noon in another way. I keep saying Noon. Thomas Noon is in this film. Thomas Noon is another one who I think is at 20 nominations. He has so many. Yeah. He might only be behind Diane Warren. And also had 20. It really fits Noon. He's 15. His thing of like he's workman like, you know, like he's he's pretty reliable. He's distinctive, but he can't also taken for granted. I've laid he's been, but he's not taken for granted in that they like, will nominate him for passing. That's the crazy where you're like, they clearly know him and recognize him. You're noticing the passenger score. And you also refuse to give him a trophy. I mean, the connection between passengers and Wally is pronounced. I mean, I think they should. That is the live action remake of Wally. His 1917 score, which was his last nom. I listened to all the time. The film that was playing that I was supposed to go see the night that you're going to see. He comes to my apartment. The one where he was coming. I didn't get to see. I didn't. I was spared having to see 1917. And I ended up fucking I had twins. And I was like, well, I'm not going to get two snooze like. And then like SpongeBob meme. When months later, like the second snoo is being brought into my house. He should have won that year because he lost a fucking joker. Yeah. Jesus. But that was, I mean, it's like the slumdog went like even giving dryhoe best song wasn't enough. Slumdog was such a fucking juggernaut. He should have won for this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He should have won for this over. But the slumdog moment. Yeah. Obviously that is not my favorite film of 20. No, it was, it was rewarding. It was probably would luminary and like his music. It does make sense. It's like, it makes sense in the moment. Part of the kind of energy of that movie is the music and all that. Yeah. And then I had the Nemo conversation, which was like, he would have won if Howard Shore had been disqualified, which is kind of aberrant that they didn't do that. Well, usually. But the score, that's why the score branch is so hated. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I made the case of, of course, the return of the King's score being hard. But also it is just, yeah, sometimes they're like, well, you can't have, we're not nominating doon two because it's too, it's too similar to doon one. And I'm like, the doon two scores completely different. And you have allowed other sequel scores. Fucking rise. The skywalker got enough. That same year, they shortlisted Beetlejuice Beetle. Right. And I'm like, guys, what's the line now? Let me show you what instrument he used for that one, a phone. Okay. He found it. Excuse me. Okay. Sorry. He used a keyboard and he copy pasted control V, control, or it's control, control, control, see, control. See, this is why you could never write it after. He is print. That's the problem. That's why I had to be V. Wally and Eve Wally gets back on from being out. I know, it's another three hour. Yeah. I know, I know, I know, I know, there's a point at which she gets the plant back to bring it back to the captain. She's they're starting Wally to stay behind. They've also seen Gofer. So they're just like something weird's going on here. We should be suspicious and cagey beyond the fact that everyone's looking for us now. But she gets through, she brings the plant to Captain McCay McCray and also sees the video footage. He's been watching of her on earth, which now has gone into her hibernation period as it's like continues auto playing. So she gets to watch Wally taking care of her when she wasn't conscious. They don't really milk that moment as much as they could. And I'm not saying that's as a negative, but like there's a real opportunity there to sort of squeeze you by the heart. They use some restraints. They use, yeah, they it is restraints. But within that footage is Wally showing her Hello Dolly, her like standby mode body directed at the screen when she wasn't paying attention before. So now she sees it for the first time and you see her have the same hand realization. Activate fingers. does the interlock. Activated fingers. Right. So now Eve kind of gets it, but she's already shunned him off. And auto is going turbo trying to block Captain Macraeza first. Keep your wreck at Ralph terminology out of this conversation. I'm sorry. Well, he's a good guy though. That's not be saying me. And then auto reveals the second video from Fred Willard. Right. Looking like they just busted him at the Tiki theater. Very disheveled. Was he wearing a life jacket? Yeah. I didn't want to drown because he says a lot of fluids in the place. This is our episode on the children's film. But the idea that it's like five years later and things have gotten so bad. And he's just like nevermind abandoned. Right. And the secret protocol. You're actually just going to stay out here forever. And there's an argument that auto is showcasing the same thing we're talking about with our other like hero robots, which is like auto has clearly made a decision to hide this information from the humans. Auto has been serving all of these captains. And it's following protocol. I mean, that's that's auto's design. But like was protocol not giving the captain the complete information? I think it was by any means necessary making sure that humans do not get back to. It was following his prime director. Yeah. You just could argue that auto is starting to make like creative decisions of how to execute that. Maybe in the way that like a learning language model, a large language, whatever the fuck they are, would would make what appear to be creative decisions to gas somebody up when they're asking Chatsy B T for. But I mean, I don't think it is actually thinking for itself in that it's irrational feeling is defeating its programming. And the way is all the other robots in the film. I think that's what distinguishes auto from all of them is that it is bound to, it's bound to its order and can't really think novelistically. They both get knocked down the garbage shoe zapped by auto. Wally gets crushed and smushed. But Eve sees that he has saved the plant and all is not lost. Yeah. Yeah. It's also a fun moment with Mo. Right. Wally makes the introduction to Mo, who just uses as an opportunity to clean his hand off. But like that. Mo joys the team. Yes. The doors when the garbage just be. Mo takes a big risk. Yes. Yeah. And then Mo says life can be messy. I love the moment of Wally's sort of like back hinge flipping out his hook that he had previously been using for the igloo. And you're like, that's a pretty perfect place to put Mo. We got our fucking core three now. You know, like the three of them, like Eve can carry Wally. Mo can be on Wally's back. And we're just fucking all business now. What I'm taking from this is that maybe my marriage needs a third. Just like that. Right. The chief harmony. We need an Eve. You need an Eve. Maybe the Eve is your couple's therapist. I'll bring that up to her this afternoon. I think the last time I was hearing both of the couples therapy in the afternoon, which is not a daily occurrence, but short of coincidence. But I do like cancel it once because of blank checkup. I think I actually have to cancel because of Schindler's list. Black, it's an ender marriage. I remember being quite a bashed about that. It is a point of pride. It is a point of pride that blank check has not yet knowingly ruined a marriage. I'm sure it's happened. Because you don't know about it. Right. Like maybe someone just listened to us so much that the other person was like, you know what I'm adding? You know, like enough already. Anytime I meet a guy, I apologize. People come up to me like, hey, I'm sorry. I don't actually listen to show, but like my partner is obsessed with it. So it's on all the time in the home and I just go like, I'm so sorry. If this is not a thing you're opting into. Could be worse. They could be really into ice age, the meltdown. This is true. Wally. Yeah, they're just in fucking mission mode now because Eve is just like, A, it's like her protective instinct is kicking in. Wally is close to death. His circuit board is fried. There's no time to waste. He has, you know, in a slightly Christ like way, potentially sacrificed himself. Yeah. Or the sense of humanity to try to save them. But that always, I was watching the movie and I was like, he'll be okay. Like that would be too. I had half a moment of his picks are going to do it. Yeah. I think future generations of people once they repopulate the earth should worship Wally. They should. Yeah. As the child or at least the child. This is a good movie. But they've locked Captain McCray up. Wally even Mo are trying to find a way to get to the Lido deck. Because if they can put the plant in the. The hollow deck. The hollow deck. The ship will autopilot itself. It will override autopilot himself even. And just go straight to it. And I just, yeah, McCray just need to give a shit. He's still trying to stay in the hover chair and do everything he can. But then you finally get to the breaking points. You said this excellent piece of animation of, I got a fucking lock. No, this is going to happen if I don't make the effort to take the first step. Yeah. And it's such a beautiful walking little bobby boy. I mean, this is really when Wally sacrifices himself. No. He gets, it's not, gets, gets close to the trash compactor. It's that auto is trying to drop down the chamber where they're supposed to put the plant into. Yes. Well, right. The first thing that happens is that auto like shocks him, which free, uh, fries the circuit board. And then now he's additionally physically crushed. I like that they fool auto with a drawing of a plant. Yes, there's a lot of the projection. Um, and, and yeah. And it's just like the ripple effects of everyone that Wally has affected in some way are woken up. Now everyone is suddenly joined in the effort. Very padding to nesk in his way. The, the sort of, I know that guy thing where people are. Oh, yeah, I said, it's like, yeah, it's Wally. Go Wally. Right, the window. Right. In a, in a civilization where people have no social interactions, Wally is like their favorite thing they've ever met. Because it's the last time they had a feeling about anything. Uh, it's a smart choice that it's just hyperspeed. And it's like once you get the boot in there, we're just going to go straight. Yep. That's how it's all designed. But then you have what I find so emotionally affecting is eve in that panic mode of like I don't have a second to waste. How do I keep him alive? How do I save him? And going, trying to like reconstitute with all the spare parts inside his little trash home. Blowing the hole in the ceiling to like light him up. And then that moment where you're like, are they going fucking cuckoo's nest? Like is he gone? And, and the long recalibration of the eyes, readjusting. And then the satisfaction of the drew satisfy. Yeah. I just, you can't end a Pixar movie that way. Just picturing like Mo breaking out of the window and running away into space. This movie felt so audacious that I was like, are all rules out the window? Can they get away with doing this? I didn't want it to happen. I thought a big slap. I felt a genuine tension from it. Yeah, there's tension for sure. And then obviously Toy Story 3 is like actively towing the line of that tension even more of like, are we going to do it? Oh, guys, I don't like it right now. I know that's what you don't like. But others do. I don't find it credible at all. It's not credible. I just, I'm like, I'm like, you know, just don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. I think it's a credible moment. I think what's credible about is it's more about the acceptance of death than the fact that the threat is actually real. That's what I want. I think we're done in Toy Story movies. That is exactly what I want for my Toy Story movie. They're immortal. They can't die. The part that's their curse, which is what I like about the Toy Story movies. The only good thing about Toy Story 3 is that Toto rose in it. You're like totally just white, white, green, potato head turns into the toy story. That's what you're talking about. You don't like lots though? No, I do not. Why would he like lots so much? He's like he smells bad. I'm not into it. It's nice to think that Wally played a big part in clearing all of the debris that enabled the plants to grow. Right. You're like even if they still have these giant trash towers to deal with. He did at least create open enough spaces that they can plant things. And that thing wasn't in vain. Yes. Yes. And society rebuilds itself as depicted in the evolution of artistic styles and movements. It's a great movie. Oh, he's my boy, man. When you get to like fucking point a list, Wally and Eva under the tree. It's a great movie. I love this fucking movie. It is. It hits the ending quickly. It's it's not abrupt, but it's like it's very efficient. Yeah. And at the greatest tension at this point is just can she save him? And if it takes too long to get home, then you don't believe there's any way to save him. Yes. It is. My only reservation is that I think that the the bit with the ship tipping over and all the baby's sliding is thematically on point. But I always wished it were a little bit more visibly satisfying after the 30 minutes of this like great tati like scramble through the ship, which feels so athletic and fun. This feels a little clumsy. But maybe it's, I don't know, just I always wanted something like pulled me in a little bit more at the end. Yeah. This is one of the movies that broke the Academy Awards. It is. Let's just briefly touch on right on the research here. There was some concern. Like, you know, up. I feel like it's the bigger anxiety point, but they'd already had. Ratatouille where they had some of the kind of like, fuck is there like, there's no merch. It's this movie pretentious. And Ratatouille did well, but it was down. Right. It was a hit, but it was leg year. It was less front loaded and it still ended up way below. Wally doesn't even have legs. This is true. He's got treads. Um. Wally was an uptick, but they definitely were worried about it and the marketing I mean we'd mentioned the fucking hidden city cafe teaser, but I remember the Super Bowl ad for this movie was Buzz Lightyear and Woody watching the game and Woody turns to Buzz and go you hear about this Wally guy and they were so freaked out by this movie that they were like Can we just remind you of our legacy and our track record? That to buffer please trust us movie also very expensive is a hundred and eighty million dollar budget Yes, very high It opened to 63 domestic it grossed two twenty three million 21 so was below Ratatouille Yes, which had been below the incredible how to play it was below Ratouille worldwide. Yeah, how did it play? Ratouille was 200 domestic It went above Ratouille Wally feels like a union right to we made six 23 worldwide. Yeah Cars also obviously had been a disappointment to to some extent on release. So though It had a long tail you know merchandise. Uh, it won best film at Lafka, which is big deal big deal There was a real feeling of like is is it time to let this into the bigger conversation instead? It does get six Oscar nominations so you can play animated you want to get screenplay animated It gets Both sound categories correct and then score and song right so it's like Six is a lot, but at the same time it is you know, they're kind of in their categories Arguably the only two other nominations it could have realistically come were picture and director And it felt like they were on the bubble and it was a real conversation And it felt like you were reading a lot of think pieces of like had there been ten nominees. Obviously It's a best picture nominee and and that's what breaks the Oscars You know becomes has toy story three. Right. It's that this doesn't make it dark night doesn't make it And I've always contended that grand terino not making it is the third one Although you know dark night and wallier a much bigger deal But it's like if we're getting like more elevated serious blockbusters Do we need a space to recognize these if these animated movies are becoming this artistic? Do we need a space to recognize these? And yeah drives them insane despite as we said in our Some dogmolean our episode Slown dogmoleaner was the highest grossing best picture nominee until up in Hymer They had a movie that was a genuine blockbuster crossover success And they were so freaked out by the fact that they didn't show enough respect to wallie and dark night that they They go to ten the next year and up becomes only the second animated film to every nominated for best picture in a ten Toys 3/3 is the third has not been another one in 16 years. Um, I have it. Where do I have it on my 2008 list? It's my number two. What's your number one? It's an activity. It's an activity. Mine too. Yeah I have a 12. Maybe I should get a higher get the fuck I'm gonna throw my wallet at you. What do you have above it a lot of good movies? I think I'll get a little higher though. I really like what's about it name one Happy go lucky in New York Happy go lucky Uh, I think we're gonna get it up to 70 you have it the reader. What is it? What is it? What is it leapfrogging? I'd tell above it. I definitely have movies that like connect to key happy go lucky speed racer Milk Wendy and Lucille milk these are big movies for me milk is the best I love these movies. They are lower than 10 and then like it's sort of in more like the Rachel getting married in bruge hunger stepbrothers See race really good Rachel's maybe my third not a bad year for American film good year. No, Rachel got married incredible But it's a terrible Oscar here. I'll take very bad. I'm part of the nightmare over milk any day of the week You're like we had good fucking options and like three of the best picture nominees are kind of web blankets Uh, yeah, of course. I mean, I think Like Frost nixon is obviously That is that frost nixon contributes to the 10 best picture nominees as much as dark night and while we readers Like one that's egregious, but frost nixon is a little bit of like are we just like auto nominating anything that feels like an Oscar? You were like I could find a few people who thought that was good right? There was not one person on her who is like one of the best five movies of the year Is Ron Howard, it was also like if that play was really good. Yeah plays pretty good. Yeah, then I really translate it Translated poorly right. I saw the play let's give it eight Oscar nominations And it was like, you know, it felt like that you know those moments were the like a like green book Where the old Oscar voters like I know we're changing. I can't help it Like you know like one more time, please, you know like frost wait. It's slum dog frost nixon reader milk the milk So so much better than most and what's the air the fifth one the fifth one? I'm forgetting Benjamin button and I like that movie a lot But even that one is set the time everyone's like a little underwhelmed. It's a little treatly, you know like Just and like we're nominating that over dark night and wally which actually kind of really hit The zeitgeist my son is it was never seen a minute of Benjamin button is fascinated by the premises I was like, what's that movie about the guy who's born to being a hundred years old and ages backwards? You maybe should show as a Benjamin button supercuts like best of blobby like I don't think he'd like a movie Someone make a Benjamin button supercut that isn't just their stuff. He would like like enough like You would like Benjamin button and the revival tent. Yeah So farx office game, right? Yeah Uh, sorry, I'm just coordinating a little photo shoot maybe okay coordinating a little I interviewed somebody and they won't they're they're gonna take pictures of you of I should do that for any time interviews something that's just like me going like and who interviewed him But David sims here seen can I paint you? I interviewed what's the name came parts. Yeah, well, no, by the time this comes out I'm quite fond of it especially all the parts where they are in the back room Not cool. That's like good percentage of the movie, but there was uh, yeah, sure But there was a moment during our interview when he said yeah No, I started to get into this stuff liminal heart all that stuff you my first year of high school Which was the first year of covid 2020 and I each just you can hear it on the audio of our interview right the loud Shotgun parts due to my name you ate a bowl of bullets soup Well, it's like oh part of me Drink poison. Okay, so it's number one of the box office cliff and what's it opening against opening to a very surprising $50 million wanted. I feel like wanted like massively over-indexed because It was sort of the Angelina Jolie moment of like this is serious like she is A magnet the only thing I wanted was to never see that movie again. Am I right? The movie is a little appareable She is really good in it though I because this is the changeling year, which is a movie, you know, I don't like and I always contended It'd be a her for best supporting actress would have been a more deserving nomination and wanted over changeling for lead actress I I think that's a bad take. I don't like that movie and I think Jolie is really good. I think she she definitely like Gives wanted some pep Uh, and she's doing her assignment, but I'm a strange specific performance, but maybe I need to rewatch changeling I like never needs to be thought of again. Once it's wanted. I mean that guy. I mean More Beckman bettoff is a product of a hairy nose. It's just them gasping up. The what was that the night shift? Yeah, whatever the fuck it was No, there's a movie in progress. Night watch. Night watch. Yeah I wanted I remember I haven't seen it since 2008, but yeah, every time it made a choice it may be loud as most as we just the wrong one They have loomers who we've tamper trees that tell them where to bend bullets when McAvoy Creams Chris Pratt in the face with a right at with a keyboard and then the words fuck you But the teeth are filling in like the ozer or like in the you know like comment your spirit visual choice and that's right And that was in that movie. Chris Pratt plays his co-worker who comes up. It's it's Chris Pratt and like sweaty chubby mode Right back when he was in playing office workers. Yeah, but that movie. Yes. You're right Massively overperformed massively are performed number three of the box office right these are all films I like saw alone in cinemas in my first year living in New York comedy TV adaptation It's the it's the first sex in the city movie. Is it not you are correct? That movie is that number nine though. Oh, okay It's a different TV. It's an older. It's not the honeymooners movie. It's an older. What's it opening to? Well it opened last week uh-huh to 38 million. It's going to end up at 130 domestic. Oh, it's get smart. Get smart. It was a hit. Forgotten. Forgotten They kept threatening to make a sequel and they were like did you guys like this and people were like what? There is what there is not an inch of pop culture that is not somewhat connected to and halfway over the last 30 years I think she rocks she's gonna she's having to have a very uh defining year this year and we will recognize by defining You mean every single movie features Exactly. Yeah or having an arm wrestling actor who in work against her. Yeah, I mean in some senses, maybe But I think it's just four or three some day has got dune drama spider-man Odyssey Odyssey and then you for luckily it seems like euphoria season three is going to pass without anyone talking But I do think that this year will sort of cement in the public consciousness to an even greater degree than it had before Then and hathaway is an institution hathaway fucking rules. I mean hathaway we're very pro hathaway in this house Yeah, in this house we respect and hathaway. I worry this year will be too much hathaway. So it's a mother married Devil Wars Prada Odyssey Verity House at the end of Oak Street. Is there a sixth one I'm forgetting? - But with the exception of Verity and Devil Wars Prada, I think those movies have such different core audiences that I don't think it's gonna feel like- - It is a widespread. - Sure. - Is it just five or is there a set? - I'm just seeing five, although I could have sworn this. - Oh, and then pick up the slide. - There's a movie called "Alone at Dawn," the Ron Howard movie, that's coming up next year, I think. - That, right, doesn't have a date yet. But that's the other one on her. - I mean, my main concern is that Prada too might suck really bad. - I've heard that it is basically the same as the first one, but obviously diluted. - The first one's a masterpiece. - It's fine. - It's diluted, I'm fine with it. - Right, if it's kind of like a base hit, like that's okay. - I was worried it was gonna be like Super Mario Galaxy of Devil Wars Prada where just shit happens. - It just starts telling me- - And they point at the screen. - The mirror street has been nice. - She goes like- - It's got a color! - And you're like, "Yeah!" - Yay! - I really have been worried of like jangling keys, shit, with that movie. - I'm troubled by the implication of the trailer that she does not remember and have to look. - How advanced is her to mention it? - But she worked for a long time. - No, she did it, she worked for the six months. - It was a memorable six months, come on. - For us, the Joker's, it was not. - I know what the Joker was saying. - I do think that trailer did make it seem like it was like a men in black, two-style, a memory character, yeah. - That might be too difficult a bit to sell in the trailer. - Exactly. - I get the idea that she's a loof when they're doing that joke, but to the point where you're like, hey, Joe Biden, anyone else. - Yes. - Is Kung Fu Panda still on the top five? - Kung Fu Panda, you have crests correctly, is number four at the box office. - That's another one that overperformed, and there was a real arms race of, they ended up very close in terms of the final totals. - Sure, sure. Kung Fu Panda's fun, it's got a Kung Fu Panda in it. - Yes, there you go. - But I think there was a little bit of leg. - That's true. - Did he- - He's there? - You go to Esoteric. - Sure. - Versus Kung Fu Pandas. - Right. - Pixar's like, ah yes. The existential crisis in Kung Fu Panda's like, the panda's large. - Get does Kung Fu Panda. - The title explains the plan. - An anecdote here. - So many times, but the urban legend I have heard that when Jeffrey Katzenberg was pitch Kung Fu Panda, his first response was, I like all three of those words. (laughing) And that movie is the best executed version of Kung Fu Panda. I think when it came out of everyone's like, oh, it's actually like good. But, you know, Wally was trying something very ambitious and they ended up at the exact same number and Wally cost me. - You don't hear a lot of podcasts about Kung Fu Panda these days. - No, they're four of them. They're four. - But right, Kung Fu Panda did injure, I guess, as right, sequel, fodder and all that as well. Number five of the box office is a film in a cinematic universe that's getting its start. - This is here in 2008. - Is this Hulk? - The incredible Hulk. - Yeah. - Uh, yeah, bad movie. - Really bad. - But did it interest me to my favorite MCU character, live Tyler's Betty Ross? (laughing) And I finally got to see her one more time recently. - I love, we're at, yeah. - Or like can we quickly, if you want to salute our president, there he is, Brighton Red. I thought you were going to say Tim Roth's abomination, which is most American's favorite MCU character. - Yeah, come back. - Also, actually, we clearly, the most delighted to be at that film, having a great time. - Charming to everyone around. - Do you know what my favorite Betty Ross scene is? - Uh, tell me. - It's tough to pick, 'cause you've got so many good moments on the MCU. - I can't guess, 'cause there's too many. - My personal favorite Betty Ross scene is when her human body walks into the raft to visit her incarcerated Red Hulk, former president, father, and her head is definitely the same. (laughing) As her human body, both things were shot at the same time. - All in union. (laughing) - On a real set, next to her is in court. - God, what if it turned out Joe Biden wasn't insane? Yeah, I'm sorry, losing his mental faculties when said it was just suffering from Red Hulk's disease, and that would have been-- - It would answer some questions and raise others, yes. - Number six was, oh, a good film here, The Love Guru. - Wow, we covered a lot of these. Number seven, we've covered this one too, with this very person, Indiana Jones, the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. - Number eight, another film we've covered, Amnit Shyamalan's The Happening. Number nine, a film we've yet to cover, Sex in the City. Number 10, a film we've yet to cover. I wonder if we will. The opportunity is kind of passed us by, you don't mess with the zone. (laughing) - Yeah, that's maybe top of the list of movies I used to argue our masterpieces that I am terrified to ever read. - In my memory, it is a movie that has a good, heart, like it wants everyone to be friends. Maybe it doesn't have the most textured view of the geopolitical situation. - In 2008, it felt like the politics were surprisingly good for the time for a movie. - I was gonna say that movie is the moment when the Democratic leadership stopped aging. - Yes. - It's been frozen in time. - Right, so people still don't like so him. Today, that movie might feel like a weapon mass destruction. - The Zoran, maybe. - Well, truly don't mess with the Zoran. - Yeah. - That's all about this game. - Not me, that's happened three times. - Yeah, it happens. - On the full moon. - We're done, we've been talking for so long. Wally is a very good movie, and I think it's nice, and he's my good friend. - He's really the best of us. - Yes, now next week on the show, we're going to meet another good friend, John Carter, a slightly less successful movie. - You have a Pulitzer Prize winning writer, Tony Kushman, the echo now one. - Yeah, go now on. - Michael Shabban is the co-writer of. - He was a co-writer of some shit. I mean, God bless you. - Yeah, but this was a passion product. I mean, we'll get into all of it. - It is a fascinating movie. Arguably has become the shorthand. I think we were saying this. We were talking about this in Madison Bend, that we were like, "John Carter kind of took over the like, water world replaced Ishtar, Ishtar replaced Heaven's Gate." - John Carter just is the thing that people- - Yeah, and Jonah Hex made a bid for it, but couldn't compete. - No. And I think some of it just boils down to, this movie costs this much and it's just called John Carter. And I'm supposed to know what that is. We will talk about it next week. I'm very excited. It's a fascinating movie to look at now and pull apart 10 years. - I'm excited to rewatch. I've only seen the one time. - I really like, thank you for being here. Do you have anything you want? - You've been like, "Done, we are done." - Do I have anything I want to plug? - Writing a book that's gonna come out in like three years. So start- - I'm excited. - Start getting hyped. - But you have a man on that. - You have a man on that. - So for this recording, not written a single word. - Yeah. - But working on it. - I was gonna joke your finish, but you just wanna leave the manuscript out in the sun for three years. - Three years. - We're very happy. - Right over here. - You could bear it. - We're on my demo. - You could bear it. - You could bear it. - Yeah. - The wife discovered it. - Oh, I want to say, I got an idea from Wally. There's a Twinkie that Wally feeds. - That's hot. - Howl. - Howl hangs out inside. - I think I might start bearing Twinkies with the jeans. - Yeah. - Continue. - No, I mean, how can you say anything after that? - I'm worried about that. - It's a brilliant idea. - I'm also gonna force you to plug fighting in the war room because your co-host always get mad when you don't do that. - Yeah, I guess if you wanna listen to it and you can, I think it's entire audience that's listening to your show is already well away. - 100 Best Podcasts ever. - Yeah, sure. Yeah, you can find me on the internet and my name and the indie wire reviewing movies. By the time this comes out, I already've been to Canon back and life will go on. - Is that for Canon? - Am I excited for Canon? - Yeah, I mean, if you're not excited for Canon, what are you doing in this line of work? I suppose. Yeah, I'm excited to hear if the Scorsese episode I nominated myself for if I was ghosted by Abject Silence from David Sims was a rejection or just omission. We'll find out. - I just wanna remind you that the episode you threw your hat in the ring for is basically a calendar year away because Scorsese is so long. - And that's what I figured. I didn't feel like it was gonna be stepping out in the toes. - We're just not making decisions about those yet. - Right, we're trying to keep things. - We're not giving you the silent treatment as much as it, here we'll say it on Mike. Your interest is noted. - I don't even remember. - I'll say it off Mike. - Fine, great. - Okay, let's be done. As always, our friend Wally. - Thank you all for listening. - Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Tune in next week for John Carter, over on our Patreon. We're finishing up a book cup. Who you guys got for John Carter? - The great Matt Singer. - I'm looking now. - Yeah, we're still in Robocop mode. I think it's Robocop three is next. - Yeah, it's just a funny Robocop. - If you enjoyed the Robocop talk and you want more Robocop, then go over and listen to us talk about Robo Ninja's fighting Robocop. And as always, he's a big. - Stay your name. - Easter. - Good name, Aisa. Who is your favorite character on Big City Greens? - Cricket. - What do you like about Cricket? - Well, he's a Robocop's boy like me. He's about the same year as old as me. But in number, the big brother, but he's a little brother. It's kind of weird. He's kind of six. - What would you say if somebody asked you what Big City Greens is about? - Well, it's about. - It's about 22 minutes long. - Yeah, it's about 22 minutes long. - What's the show about? What happens the family moves from the country? - The family moves from the country to the big city. And they get all cry when they don't want to go. But before they think that they don't want to, they think that's going to be like a creepy mansion like a crime. the door, but then they'll say like that remove that were leaving the country and moving to big city. And they cry and they let cry. And why is Chip Whistler so mean to them? Well when they first want a big city cricket like um the chip told um cricket something and then and then cricket kicked him and then it is all began. And last question what do you think of the movie Wally? What does that have to do? It's unrelated. What do you think about Wally? You used to love Wally. We watch it every day for like six months. Nope. Okay, thank you. Bye. Blankcheck with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me Ben Hossley. Our creative producer is Marie Bardy Salinas and our associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy. Researched by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lame Montgomery in the Great American novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Holley Moss and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon blankcheck special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social @blankcheckpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by blankcheck productions. And Wally is kind of a vehicle. Yeah. What do you think about that? Wally's kind of got some main character syndrome with regards to this move. He does. He does. He's also kind of a great friend. We'll save this for that. That's the kind of observation that must be recorded at all times. Okay, David, I'm going to send you a thing in a second. Did you guys record finding Nemo already? We did. We did that one. Good movie. Very good. Fish. Okay, David. Yeah. No. Nice to meet on your name. Yes, sorry. Ben, are we ready? We are.