Viral Strengths with Anti-Planner ADHD Creator Dani Donovan

I was owning my weird, but it was one of those things where I really let it get to me more. And so now, so much of my confidence has not just come from like, "Ooh, I've gotten you pretty successful at the things I've tried at." It is, I have talked to so many people who are now able to be open about their struggles. And so when you're able to kind of deal with those feelings and truly accept like, "I am struggling because my brain is literally wired differently." And so holding myself to the same expectations is not only unfair, but it's going to set me up for cycles of disappointment and low self-esteem and sub-anger. And you only can start letting that go once you start to accept that like, you have to find a way to do things your way because a lot of times harder people's ways are not going to be what helps you in the long term. Welcome to Successful with ADHD. I'm Brooke Schnipman. Let's get started. Hi everyone and welcome back to Successful with ADHD. Today I have Danny Donovan. Hi Danny. I'm sure you know who Danny is if you're on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, Danny is a purpose-driven creator, author, advocate for ADHDers. And she's cathartic in her comics. And she has a Neurosiverse Squad hashtag, which is helped build an online community. Hey, for adults living with ADHD. And she's been featured in publications like The New York Times, Speed Beauty News, NPR, and was a closing keynote speaker at the 2021 International ADHD Conference, where I actually met Danny, but I met her in 2019. Her unorthodox self-help book has been amazing. You probably have seen it's called Anti-Planer. So we know that with ADHD, a lot of people say, "Get a planner." Well, she has the Anti-Planer and it's how to get shit done when you don't feel like it. And she does have a clean version for those of you who are offended and offers creative strategies, activities, and games to help the procrastinators understand their emotion and overcome productivity, roadblocks, and Danny's work has encouraged thousands of people to seek diagnosis and treatment. How cool is that? So explore her content at ADHDD for DannyDonovan.com or follow her on social media at DannyDonovan. All right, welcome. I'm excited to be here. It's been a couple of long time coming. I know. I'm excited to have you. So for those of you who don't know, I met Danny in 2019 at the ADHD Conference and she was doing the comics then and she was showcasing them. I'm like, these are so cool. I see the potential in her. Can you do one for my website? Yeah! Let's do it! And we got into this creative mode and talked about it and she's like, yeah, I'm overcombeding myself. Typical ADHD. But I do have a very cool drawing from you and your autograph on it. So I feel excited about that. So anyway, Danny, why did you get diagnosed with ADHD? I was a freshman in college. I'm 32 and I was like 18 and a half or 19 and I want to got it. So I mean, it was a long time ago, but it also wasn't that long ago considering that like my mom asked my fifth-year teacher and she thought I could have ADHD and my teacher said she can have ADHD. She's too smart. We could really send it to my mom. And so it's like, oh, okay, I wonder, you know, what life would have looked like if I would have known about it that much sooner. So, wow. And we talk about that so much on this podcast about how, unfortunately, especially back then, teachers were just undereducated about ADHD, especially in women. So, wow. Okay. So what happens then when you are a freshman that finally convinced you to get that diagnosis? What's really funny is I did not go in there looking for an ADHD diagnosis. I started college and moved to a different small town. I'm from Mom, Nebraska, I went to school in Carnegie, Nebraska. You know, they had a really great design program, but I really missed my, I finally found a friend group where I felt like I belonged and moving to a different area with a much different like culture. I was like culture than I was used to, but like I grew up in the city and a lot of people like didn't and I was having a hard time kind of like fitting in, tried joining a school already, but like at the end of the day, I was not taking care of myself. I was getting really depressed. I was going home every single weekend because I really felt like I didn't, I was trying really hard, but I didn't belong anywhere. And I just hadn't found, you know, found my people yet. And I was getting really sad about it and I recognized those kinds of feelings and thoughts because I had been depressed one other time, when we moved to Phoenix and I had to restart finding friends over again. There's some themes here. But starting over is really hard for me. And so I wait to talk to someone about depression. And I was like, last time I left this gear really bad. I wanted to talk to someone before it was at that point. And she heard how fast I was like splitting from topic to topic and I kept apologizing for talking too much and she was like, why are you apologizing? And I said, oh, because it's annoying when I talk that much. And she goes, who said that? And I'm like, everyone and sort of like crying instantly. And she goes, does anyone talk to you about ADHD? And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, because again, I was 18 or 19. And my brain starts going, everyone I knew who had ADHD was like, annoying boy in my class who didn't have any friends. Like that was the image I hate to say it. You know, obviously I've learned a lot since then. But that was at 18 or 19, like the true stigma that was residing in my brain. And I like to think I'm a pretty open minded person. But like that was still there. Then I was like, no, no, no, that's not me. And she was a psychiatric nurse practitioner confided in me that she had ADHD. And so I was like, oh, wait, I can be a cool successful person. Also, she handed me like a list of all the symptoms. I read it. And I was like, oh, no, you know, but I tried meds. And it really was like that putting on glasses moment where I was like, is this it could have been like this the whole time? Is this real life? It's all for other people. And you feel it's like glasses that work like part of the time. But at the end of the day, there's that also like sad and angry feeling when you get diagnosed later in life where you go, why didn't anyone tell me or why didn't anyone tell me or or I didn't even realize that it could be different than this. And how many years of my life did I struggle? I didn't have to. Again, 18 is is older, but it's not like I know people people message me. I get emails from people in their 50s, 60s, 70s, who are getting diagnosed with ADHD and are like, I wish I wouldn't own this like 50 years ago. Yeah. So you had said that you have helped like thousands of people identify that they have ADHD and get that diagnosis. What does that feel like for you? Especially someone who, you know, when you first got diagnosed was thinking, oh, if I had only known this. So it's really rewarding. It's probably the best part of what I've done. And I do a lot of stuff, but hearing people tell me what a difference my contact has made either, you know, getting them a diagnosis or giving them tools to explain their feelings and their internal worlds to the people around them. Whether be friends or loved ones, significant others, parents, and sometimes having that outside person be able to like show it to you and they go, oh, it's not just you making excuses. This is like a thing, you know, I feel bad. And so I get emails from, you know, people of all ages who are really excited to start a new chapter of their lives and feel like, hope for the first time in a while. And then I get a lot of people who are, I get people who, you know, parents who go, I feel so much guilt for the amount of anger and impatience and lack of compassion I had for my child and I didn't understand how bad it really was to try to navigate this until I was able to visually, you know, see someone's experiences mapped out like that. And, you know, I know better now, but like I feel like such a bad mom. And I'm like, your kid is 14, you know, and like you being able to acknowledge that you don't want to, you know, treat them like that anymore. The rest of their life is going to be so much better because there's so many people who never get to that point, never stop blaming their kids for their symptoms. It's all very rewarding to hear from kind of these different segments of people. Wow. So that's huge. I mean, the fact that you've impacted thousands of people so far and families that must be an amazing feeling. But also like when you got that 80 to 80 HD diagnosis, a new one graphic design at the time, like what happens to you fast forward a little bit from there once you started to understand your age, she brain, you said it was like putting, you know, glasses on for the first time and, you know, work sometimes, not all the time. What did life start to look like for you? So like in high school, I really didn't struggle that much academically because I had the structure of my parents and the structure of the routine and like people would know if I wasn't doing stuff and that was what was so hard my freshman year too was like that structure completely disappeared and so learning to function without my parents around and still get my laundry done and still feed myself that stuff that's not just grilled cheese every single night and so learning to find some semblance of a routine for like self-care and I picked up gym stuff and running and reading while I was doing it and so really being able to find time to take care of my meat soup but then the other thing that was really big was being able to show up on time in the mornings because I would fall asleep in my eating classes because I was staying up so late working on the projects for my eating and classes and then I'd get through hours of sleep you know and so I was able to actually sit and focus on a project and not make something that needs to take four hours, take 12 hours because I keep getting distracted halfway through. Totally and so that was really a big big impact and so I actually graduated top of my class program so it was it was pretty cool. So you graduated top of your class but how did you do that so you said that the medication really helps you but what other types of structures did you put in place? The big thing for me was also I helped I kind of accidentally community builds really easily I was really the easy person to talk to in our class I really I came in with a lot more experience than other people in my class my junior year of high school my parents got me a MacBook Pro and it was my it was two birthdays two Christmas's and my graduation present and they're like we get it too early because like we're not just gonna get you a laptop but you know because I had been nominated to be design editor of her school yearbook and so I got to learn how to use a double nine and Photoshop and all that stuff in high school and so when I got to college I already knew how to use a lot of these programs I had experienced designing t-shirts and most of my classmates didn't some of them have never used any of the programs before some of them never even heard of the programs before being able to be that person who wasn't the teacher that people could come in like ask questions and ask for help from and for me it really was like I want all my classmates to get better because I want people to like I'm say compete with but I want people to work on it inspire me you know challenge me and so everybody started to get better and we started to hang out in groups and all work together we were like body doubling if one of us had to stay late and there was someone else staying late like we were less likely to go home and so there was a lot of late nights but that camaraderie and being able to have superior support really made a huge difference and so we graduated with 10 people and it was like the largest graduating class they'd had for like 20 years and they attribute a lot of that to our class being really collaborative and friendly instead of past classes that had been really like competitive like I don't want you to get an offer for the job that I want so I'm gonna hoard this information for myself but I think a lot of us were very nervous it seemed like a very uh neurodegenerative craft script wow I think that is so powerful because you don't have a scarcity mindset clearly when it comes to getting the job and working with the community other people and because of that like look at where you are today and we can talk more about that journey and you know you figured out through your natural strengths and values how to succeed with a HD not being taught it but just because you leaned into oh I love community I love working with other people let me just do the thing and figure out how to how to get this done because you're a team player and that was really what I had said earlier that I hadn't found my crowd I hadn't found where I belong it wasn't until I started to get them to know the people in my classes because at the beginning you start with 125 kids in the program and again we ended with 10 and so around sophomore year which is when like half of the class drops out it's a really hard program but by the time they have that many people you start to finally have the same people in all of your classes and so that's really difficult as an adult especially as you like change jobs or move cities like I just moved to Atlanta like a year ago and I happen to know someone down here who was introduced me to some of you know her friends but starting over that experience as an adult especially if you work for yourself or work from home and you're not in the same spaces as other people on a regular basis it can be so challenging to not just make those relationships but maintain them because that's 88 years or not always so good at the communication what do you mean? Add a side out of mind? Yeah exactly yeah I think that's wonderful and I talk about how 80 HD is like a three like it's stool one is finding your community and other one is the behavioral approaches and sometimes medication so for you you had the medication you found your community and through the community you were able to maintain momentum with that accountability so that's awesome and now you're providing that for other people too. And it's worth my career now which has been really great because there's absolute I love being able to be open about my struggles on the internet and then have a bunch of people tell me that they struggle with that too. There's nothing that motivates me more to go and take care of that thing so I can come back and post an update and be like oh my god you guys I actually did it and then people say you've inspired me to go take care of it now you know and then they post their picture of their thing being done and it's just a really fun feeling I love this community there's a lot of toxic online communities out there and the 80 HD and around emergent like communities online for the most part are so positive and supportive and loyal and because so many of us have been picked on or it felt like an outsider for so long and we're like we found our crew we got stick together. Let's go right and I think that's because you're sending such an authentic message and you're being vulnerable about your struggles that people can really relate to what you're going through so like you're you're just you know like it's not even a job for you at this point it sounds like it's more of a passion. It's just public art therapy and public processing. Yeah because there are people who you don't think about something until you see something and you go oh is that not is that not what happens for other people you know you know there's something that could help explain this because I still remember seeing Jessica McCabe's sheet it was just like an off hand comment as an example in one of her videos about laundry being challenging for people with ADHD because it involves so much set switching and waiting and having to get to it before the mildew sets in and you have to wash it again or the dryer is now all wrinkly you have to dry it again and then you're shrinking on the clothes and it asked me how I met but not realizing that this thing and I put it off until I didn't have any clean clothes anymore and then now I have to do seven loads of laundry and I just load the laundry and I had so much shame about how much I struggle with it compared to other people and she mentioned that it's challenging for people with ADHD and why and I started like weeping just like weeping and then I watched a bunch of our videos and I remember crying during so many of them because I go wow maybe I can hate myself a little less you know like that really was the feeling of yeah everything isn't a personal flaw of mine that you know I've been teased about or I'm self-conscious about there are answers and there are other people who also struggle with and I just haven't talked to anyone about it yeah I hear you I hear you and I know that you and Jessica are like besties now so for those of you who want to know who we're talking about you probably have seen her on YouTube before how to ADHD and when I met Danny and met Jessica as well they were both putting on I don't even remember what you call it but it was like interclass presentations at the International ADHD conference so I am curious like you accidentally fell into this right so you were just doodling and then all of a sudden you blew up I made a a so there's actually a little bit of story here I had just started a new job at Gallup had just started there I was about two months in and they have these like couches that people can kind of work on their laptops out and I was working with some of my you know teammates and they want somebody started talking about therapy and this girl's like now one of my best friends she started talking openly about therapy and I was like wow I have not talked to anyone even my closest friends about therapy and you're just telling me about what you're working on in therapy wow you know you're so brave I was like whoa I hadn't even crossed my mind and that's the thing that you would do and I opened up to people and told them I had ADHD and they go yeah I mean we kind of figured I got that supposed to be. So then kind of got an insight joke about how I tell stories and how the conductor of my train of thought, Donnie Ganivan, is really bad at his job and keeps wanting to take all these D-tours to take you to show you every single class. I love this. Pretty cool thing along the way, because he wants to spend as much time with you as possible and doesn't want to leave anything out. And so I made that little comic as a way to track Donnie's journey because I really fell into that pattern all the time. So I made it, sent it to my friend, and she goes, "Wow, that's so you!" And I go, "I know, I made it!" And she goes, "You have to post this online." And our boss followed me on Instagram, and I had not told him I had ADHD. And I was like, "I don't know, or maybe I should change the title, we're not putting ADHD on there." She goes, "Well, you can post it on Twitter, like you have like 600 followers, so if I like that, that many people would see it." "You're okay, and I posted it on Twitter, and it blew up immediately." And one of the reasons is like Aaron Brooke, who talks a lot about ADHD, also had retweeted it to her ADHD audience. And there weren't a lot of comics that were talking about ADHD. Jessica had her awesome channel, there were books, there were podcasts, but there were not specific ADHD comics being made. And so I saw the response from the community. I read the comments, people, "Yeah, some people were like, "Oh, this is funny." And some people were like, "Wow, this is a punch in the gut. Why am I crying?" That really inspired me to then start making more, because I go, "Okay, well, this was fun for me to make, and it seems like people like them, so I'll try a couple more of these." And the response was really great on all of them. And so I just kind of kept with it, but having those, I was like, ADHD thoughts of, "Okay, cool, I like this now, but how long until this deck of cards falls down? How long until I've given everything in my life?" But you never do anything consistently. Like the negative self-talk was so, you know, as a creative, I finally found that once I hit 100 of something, I'm pretty much done. Like I made just over 100 comics, I made just over 100 TikToks, doing things like that where I don't have to feel like I have to pick one thing and just do that one thing forever, 'cause that's not how my brain works. I want to do that one thing until I get really good at that thing, and I have a collection, and then I can find something else to apply what I have to say to a different medium. Gotcha. So basically, you're never bored. So once you get to that point where you lose a little bit of interest and you've already challenged yourself and it's become routine. New lane. Woohoo! The Donny Conductor is steering you that way. So now, fast forward, you started with a blow up Twitter, because Aaron Brooks retweeted one of your first one. And now you've moved on to essentially putting all of your ideas together into this anti-planar. So I want to talk about that because it's so different than what you see out there. It's not your typical book, it's viral copy, and it's colorful, there's tabs on it. So talk to us a little bit about that. What is in it and what type of people this resonates with? I was like hoping I know I had one at my desk at one point, and I-- Come on, are you kidding me? Maybe you needed a planner to-- I know. --for your entrance. Yeah, it was really important for me. It's so pretty. It's so cool. It's so cool. Because it was really important for me to have that tactile experience and being able to be something that catches my eye, because I like to keep it on my desk, even if it's not open. Some of it said it's a productivity spell book, which I really like. What is this witchcraft? Just go in there. Yeah. And so when it really is a lot of recipes, essentially, of experiments, right? If you have, here's what you need. Here's what kinds of things it's for, and here's how you do it, and here are some tips. And so much of the book is in that format, but it's broken up by emotions that are kind of getting in the way of you getting the stuff done that you want to get done. And so whether you're feeling stuck or overwhelmed, unmotivated, disorganized, and discouraged, and then each of those sections are further broken down into overwhelmed being intimidated, over-committed, panicking, or burnt out. And so how you're really feeling, and it's got a little bullet so you can read what those kind of look like. And if you're reading it, you go, oh my god, it's me. Then you can go to that section, and it's got little activities, exercises, games, strategies for you to try and see if that could help, versus you having a giant book of 165 unorganized ideas. Like that's so much stuff, about two, versus being like, here are 10 strategies that can help. And then at the bottom of the sum of the pages, it's like, this pairs well with this exercise on this page, or like you might also like this thing on here. And so being able to make that, again, I made this for me initially, because I've been doing a lot of these things in the book for years and years. And so I started making something for myself so that I wouldn't forget all of the strategies that I've been picking up. And then as I started to build it, I go, people would probably like this. - I've seen in my experience that things that help me help other people and really blow up. So, sounds like you have a vision there. - And then as I talk to more people with ADHD, and I'm like, nothing about me is original. - Your drawings are original, your ideas are original, but yes, you're right. Isn't it crazy that other people feel the same way? - For specific examples of things that you think, you know, are just you think, like the, oh, I believe, I have a bad habit of leaving half-dright coffee cups on my desk until they grow mold like science experiment, you know? I saw that page. That's awesome. Speaking of which. (laughs) - So actually one of the things that I've got upcoming, which I have not really announced anywhere yet. So it's secret. - E first to hear. - On successful with ADHD. - I'm doing a podcast in YouTube channel. And so it's going to be about, you know, how to get stuff done. You don't feel like it's still, but it's each of the episodes will focus on a specific task that sucks. And so it might be doing dishes, doing laundry, filing your taxes. - I love it. - And I think those episodes is going to break down. Here's the most common obstacles and why you're probably avoiding it. And then here are some solutions that directly can help with those specific obstacles. And then I get to take all that stuff and put it in a, in a follow-up to the anti-cliner. So I'm really excited, but it turns out that it's going to just talking about ADHD now, being able to figure out the byproduct of ADHD where that executive dysfunction, learning how to understand it from the inside out, and be able to like, wink at all of the things and be like, I want to understand why I keep doing this thing I don't want to do, or why I keep not doing this thing that I want to do. Like, it's not logical. Make it make sense. And then if you can see it for what it is and go, oh, the reason I don't like doing dishes is I hate the feeling of that stuff on my hands. I have never worn gloves, like those big kitchen gloves while I'm doing dishes. I've never done it. My mom parents didn't do it. I haven't tried it. And then you do it and you go, oh, this fixed it. Yeah. That one little thing, it's like, ooh, it's unlocked. Yes, or like the, it walked through your face, right? Somebody on Twitter had mentioned putting on scrunchies with those like tennis wristbands. So that when you're washing your face, that like stream of water doesn't run down your elbow. That's such a great idea. But yeah, and I guess you started washing your face more, right? And so finding out little hats like this that can really, really help. I want to be able to help share this knowledge and make impact on people's lives on a daily basis with that like kind of mundane stuff versus the anti-planar. I kind of call it a procrastination fire extinguisher. The point is not to use it every single day. The point is when you're like, I have so much stuff I want to get done today. I'm like, oh, like I've got this thing that I've been putting off and I want to take care of. I'm like, oh my God, I have so much to do. That's when you reach for it. And so even it's got that reduction of shame and guilt that planners kind of have. Oh, I stopped using this for months. Now it's, I've got all these blank pages and I feel like I don't want to touch this anymore because it's a giant reminder of my failure. Or I guess I'll just wait until Jamie will be next year having something that doesn't have calendars or dates that is meant to be used sporadically. So if it's been a year since you used it, it's still as helpful as it was the day you bought it. And so that's really sort of my goal with the book was to create a toolbox, kind of strategy guide that can help people when they need it. More of like a reactive type thing when you're just having those bad executive function. Hopefully it gives people that same kind of relief that I got when Jessica had mentioned on her YouTube channel, the laundry thing. Mm-hmm. That's huge. So that's what's next for you. So what-- so people can understand it. It seems pretty obvious. But what is your mission? I have not talked about this anywhere else either. So I'm just saying, but-- exclusive number two. My company is called the Antiboring Project. And so the anti-planar right now is the first sort of like productivity arm. you know of this company, but the idea is that I want to take things that are good in theory and things that are helpful for other people typically, and maybe neuro-typicals, or people who don't struggle with that thing, and I want to make a version for the invisible people who are struggling and don't have a tool to get them to that same outcome. And so being able to, especially taking mundane things that aren't difficult for other people and making them and are going to be fun, taking something that, you know, maybe in the future being able to do accessibility devices. So I've got a physical disability, also about Ailer's Danlos Syndrome, and so eventually this is years on the line. This is just an idea, but being able to make mobility devices that are really cool looking and like stylish, because a lot of them look like medical devices, and in the same way that glasses, right, glasses are a medical device, but like you can pick, you've got tons of options, you've got really cool looking ones. There are people who don't even need them, right? I just think that there are underserved populations out there, people who deserve nice stuff, and I really want to make cool creative stuff for those people, but also first and foremost, stuff that I want. I'm going to just put the I want to know that people know that it's going to be an amazing product because there's a need and you've tested it for yourself. So you can sell anything if you yourself believe in it, and you're doing this for you, but also for the greater good. So I think that's all. I think when there's not so difference when again, you've got that mentality of I'm building this for me and people like me versus, oh, I found this niche target audience that I'm not a part of, but I want to be able to exploit them to make money or I want to find it, you know, maybe even ask other people what their experience is like in order to gain information to develop products, but it's still not coming from that authentic place of first hand experience. And I think that I hear you. Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot of like ADHD planners out there, and I look at it. This is a regular planner, which is with more stuff on it. But the word ADHD on top of it. Come on. No, and then they're selling. It got, you know, thousands of reviews on Etsy kind of thing. And if it's not to say that some people with ADHD can't use planners, but the issue that I kept running into with planners was that I had to copy, like I use my Google calendar, Google counter is like, but yeah, I would have to rewrite down. Yes, meeting. And then if I mean, I'm rescheduled, like it messed up my whole thing. I would like to with your, yeah, when when it came down to it, it was so inconvenient that I dropped it. The momentum can keep going if you decide that it's going to keep going. Yep. Captain, Captain Donnie. It's going to take you back onto the tracks. That's so funny because there's so many like overlaps in what you're saying with my upcoming book activate your ADHD potential. I have a cover with like lines that go all over the place until you get to where you need. And it's all about building and maintaining momentum. But with ADHD. We get burned out. You're right. We have that overwhelm. But then we get that new setting a exciting idea after we get down to underwhelm. And then it starts all over again. And it's just that cycle. Right. So how do you take that cycle and just keep moving and building and maintaining momentum with it. And you have such these like practical tools that work for you and are colorful and work for the community. So I love that. Thank you. I think the big thing is that I specifically develop tools that are not who are meant to not be used consistently so that expect internal expectation of if I can't keep this going. I failed that storyline disappears. And so if you are planning like I will pick a productivity strategy. And I'll be like, I'm just going to do this this week. Or I'm just going to do like the kind of on boards. I'm just going to do this for this one. There's no attachment to it. There's no expectation. And honestly, if I sometimes look at it like a challenge. I'll do like a challenge where like I'm going to get up at 530 every day. This week. And I'm going to do three that I made a list of things habits that I want to do more often. I'm going to pick three of those things. I'm not going to tell myself what I'm going to do every morning. I'm going to let myself pick from this menu of options of things that I want to do more often. And I'm going to do three of those. But I tell myself I'm only going to do it for a week or sometimes I do two weeks. And then sometimes that two weeks will pass by. And I will continue doing it, but like at a even like not giving it my all. It's still so much more. So I like really sprint so that I can just kind of like me under down to a walk versus trying to get up to a walk day at a walk. I like that. I like that. So it's interesting. So you're saying sprints, but really like you are telling yourself that you're going to do this thing in the way that you want to. And if it only lasts a week, that's fine. Or if the finish line, you don't make it. That's okay, because you're going to do another thing that's going to continue to build that momentum for you. So it's just activating yourself. And being able to do adjust what makes sense for you and like customize things. This is just sort of like a base to start from. And so I sort of look at trying new things in that way of when things don't work, it's not failure. It's just more information about what doesn't work. Love it. Love it. So there's definitely a theme that we've, you know, talked about here, you know, starting with what feels good to you. And then keep, you know, putting it out there and not feeling like everything has to be an all or nothing thing. You can change things up. But what would be one thing that you'd want to lead people with here today. If they're looking for help with their ADHD, one success tip for them. Okay. I'm going to give one that's really short, but getting an ADHD coach is life changing. It was like it was so helpful. And the mindset that I have now I was able to develop because of all the different things I tried from ADHD coaching, having someone who was there to remind me that I wasn't a failure. And that do we want to pivot or do we want to try something else, you know, having a guide will help it to sink in and stick. So that's sort of part one, but that's not accessible to everybody because, you know, coaching takes money. And there's things cost a lot more money than they used to. So that's not a bad option for everybody. But as far as a general one or kind of success, I really would say learning to write, like write down the things that have worked for you at some points so that when you forget you've got that front of you, I feel like I keep discovering the same things and therapy because I wasn't writing it down that I forget that I already had that a 50, you know, it's crazy how fast things kind of fall out of my brain. And so having that sort of menu of things that you could try trying to get have that mentality that you don't have to stick with it forever. I love that. The body double anything. Okay, I'll do that. The body doubling thing is amazing. So I knew there wasn't just one here. Yeah, the body doubling thing is amazing for anyone who doesn't know what it is. It's where you just work alongside someone else typically might be doing your own work and you're working quietly. And my favorite thing to do is virtually with friends to set up like an online meeting. And we will share a screen that got a pomodoro timer on it. So we'll do 25 minutes of working. Everybody on mute. And then we'll set, you know, that'll go off. We'll do five minutes of talking and we'll talk about what we got done and what we're going to do for the next timer. And then we put ourselves back on mute. Start another 25 minute timer. And so I call it avoidance murder party because we always do the things we've been dreading the most. And so if there's something during the week that comes up that's like, oh my god, I don't want to deal with this. I go, I'm going to put that I got a little list and I go, I'll put this in my avoidance murder party list. And I'll get so that you know, I've got a planned day to take care of the most unpleasant things with people that I like. So I can play a whole touch. I love it. Your terminology for things. That's great. And before we go, can you share one thing that you would tell Danny before she was 18. Now that you know your ADHD. You're not as weird as you think you are. You're really not. There's a lot of people who are just like you. You just haven't met them yet. Or own your weird, right? Well, and I was, I mean, I was owning my weird, but it was one of those things where I really let it get to me more. And so now so much of my confidence has not just come from like, oh, I've gotten pretty successful at the things I've tried. It is a lot of I have talked to so many people who are now able to be open about their struggles and you know, our understanding and need someone to be seen that when someone tries to tell me, definitely ADHD. You're just lazy. I'm like, you don't know what you're talking about. Like you can. You do. ADHD. And so when you're able to kind of deal with those feelings and truly accept like, I am struggling because my brain is literally wired differently. And so holding myself to the same expectations is not only unfair, but it's going to set me up for cycles of disappointment and low self-esteem and self-anger. And you only can start letting that go once you start to accept that like you have to find a way to do things your way because a lot of times harder people's ways are not going to be you know what helps you in a long term. I love that. So we'll definitely share. Yay! We'll definitely share your links in the show notes. And Danny, thank you so much for coming on Successful with ADHD. So good to see your face and hear your story. I know this is going to impact a lot of people who might be 18-year-old Danny or 18-and-a-half or 32-year-old Danny or even 50-year-old Danny. So really appreciate you sharing your story to impact hundreds of thousands of people out there. So thank you so much for having me, Greg. Thanks for listening to this episode of Successful with ADHD. I hope it helps you on your journey. And if you need any additional support for you or a loved one with ADHD, feel free to reach out to us at coachingwithbrook.com and all social media platforms at coachingwithbrook. And remember, it's Brooke with Danny. Thanks again for listening. See you next time.