Views from Ballhalla, Valks and Dream Go Up 2-0

(upbeat music) - Welcome to the Ringer WNBA Show. I'm Syrit Sohee, and I am coming to you guys solo after my first experience of Valhalla. I chose maybe the best possible night to make my debut at the Chase Center to watch a Golden Say Valkyries game and what might perhaps be the best home court advantage in the WNBA, the Valkyries, of course, did have the best home record. In the WNBA this season, they have constantly called their crowd, their sixth man. And for a team that is full of six women, I think they understand the value of them. This episode is presented by Walden University, whether you're on the court or building your career, getting better takes work. That's why Walden University helps working professionals get the W with tempo learning, so you can earn your degree at your own pace while gaining practical skills through real world scenarios. You'll also learn from faculty with real world experience and have support start to finish. Walden University set a course for change. Ready to start? Visit waldenu.edu today. Certified to operate by chef, tempo learning available in select programs. But truly, honestly, all started with that. Before we get into what a moment this is for the Valkyries franchise, and I think what that can mean for the WNBA at large, as this is probably one of the most positive stories of WNBA growth and validates investment and also gives future franchise as a blueprint for what they can do in the future if they are willing to have the guts to actually do it. Before we get into all of that, I just wanna talk about the experience of being at the arena. First of all, it's incredibly loud. I don't think anybody would be shocked to hear that. Most people around me had earplugs. I re-friend if only because I wanted to experience Valkyries. I wanted to raw dog it, you know, it was my first time. And I knew that I had to get out there before they potentially, like, you just didn't know if this was like your last home game of the season. They're up to go now. It is very unlikely that it will be their last home game of the season. A WNBA team has never actually gone up to Winnoe in a series and lost before. So that is Las Vegas's challenge. But this crowd, this crowd was incredible. And, you know, it has all the sort of theatrics that you see on television. The handheld was waving, the thunder sticks. Just the general sense of, like, jubilation in that arena in the sense that this is a team that understands basketball really well. This is fan-based rather than understands basketball really well. But I think the coolest thing, especially in this particular game, fourth quarter, you know, this is the strength of the numbers team. This is the team that has one star that's maybe budding into a superstar in Gabby Williams, their major free agency acquisition this season, that they also went after this season before, too. She just happened to be corded by Seattle, so she couldn't. But I think that original meeting sets the tone for, you know, maybe I think it put Valhalla in her mind and influenced her decision to join the franchise a year later when she actually was an unrestricted free agent. But I think that in the context of what the Valkyries are and they're an unorthodox winner in WNBA history if they do go to the finals and do more. Because on one end, yes, they're the number one defense and the number one defense often wins the title. And in the WNBA, it's happened nine out of the last 29 times or all 29 times. But they don't have that top 10 all-time great player. And maybe they will by the end of it, you know, maybe they'll get somebody in free agency. I think this is a very like portrait of the artist as a young man sort of thing going on with the Valkyries. They have Natalie McCarthy who was an assistant for Becky Hammond and is coached right there with her in this series. As the out coached Sharon Sundance instances and we'll get to that and talk about like the Clanny Brown and just rest versus a exhaustion storyline in this matchup. But it's sort of like one has a pedigree and we've seen them do it over and over again. But I kept having this feeling going into this game. You know, everybody talks before and you know, I think the general feeling was Asia's gonna drop 45. You know, Asia's going into a pretty close to a most win game and she didn't have her best game last season. We typically know what follows in those games. So we've seen her do it over and over again. And I don't say this to say like, oh my God, I was right 'cause I'm wrong all the time. But I just kind of kept having this feeling like I don't think so. Like I just didn't think that the Valkyries wouldn't lose this game. And I think it's because I believe in what they're doing even though it is unorthodox. And even though I shouldn't, if I look at WNBA history, if I look at the history of teams at win titles, they are lacking in some of those areas. But they have so much conviction about the things that they do that are unorthodox. Natalie Nicosi said at the end of the game, we have multiple closures. Like she was asked about Veronica Burton, who hit a huge, huge three. She actually and got the ball twice from Gabby Williams on that position. And first time she'd grow, and she saw Asia Wilson in the pain. She very intelligently decided that she wasn't gonna try to shoot a layup over her, but she gets a ball back and a three-pointer and switches it on a night in which she's struggling a lot. And this follows a mid-range jumper made by Gabby. Now I'm not gonna say it was like the prettiest closing, but they were dealing with, on the other end, this ace's team coming back from down 17. And first, it's the Jackie Young bucket. Then it's the Chelsea Gray Three. And then it's the Asia Wilson layup and you're like, oh shit, the cavalry is here. The big three is gonna step up and they're gonna close this game out on the road and the Valkyries will just be, this Valkyries team will just be another footnote in the history of the ace's dynasty. And the storyline will be like, oh, Joe Lake, I shouldn't have given Asia Wilson more fuel and never doubt the ace is, like never count the aces out. The ace is a never fold. Like it would have been one of those stories and you could feel that happening. And I think the coolest thing about the crowd is that I think they have this ability to intuit when the players need them. They understand the big basketball moments. And I think there's also something to just like being completely unburdened by history. I think a lot of crowds watching those three hit back to back to back shots. There would have been some nervousness in the crowd. There would have been some nervous murmuring. There would have been the sort of like looking around. And then I think sometimes crowds in those moments they start to cheer self consciously in a way. They know that the team needs them and they kind of get into it. But what it ultimately does is it transfers nervous energy. Like everybody in the building can end up feeling the heaviness of it. And it was so cool about the batteries. And it's maybe because the crowd hasn't faced too much. They haven't gone through trauma basically. They haven't gotten to put a lot of collective trauma as a fan base. And every time the batteries needed it, they got so hyped. So hyped, like before the Veronica Burton shot, before the Gabby William shot. After all those big shots, when you could feel the players even started to tense up, those were the moments where the crowd just breathed confidence into them. And you can start to understand why on a night to night basis, now Gabby Williams gets on that microphone and she was like, I don't know what comes over me. When I'm in Valhalla, I just need this crowd just does something to me. She almost describes it. It sounds like it's an out-of-body experience as energy transfer. And so she has with this team that of course, it's so defining for her as a team that is in the Bay Area. And she grew up playing basketball in the Bay Area. She's talked about how a lot of these moments are like for the young girl in herself. So it's this incredibly beautiful full circle moment for Gabby Williams. But I just thought that was really cool. Like this relationship that the crowd has, I think is informed in part by the fact that it is a new crowd. It is a new team. They are completely unburdened by the past of WNBA history. This is an ownership group that is completely unburdened, by the past of WNBA history, I caught up with Joe Lake of the bathroom's owner a little bit after the game. And like one thing that's really always been interesting about Joe, I've always seen him from afar like when I was covering the NBA, just reading interviews and stuff. So it's my first time actually talking to him myself, but one thing that you always gleaned from him was that there was just like this sort of swashbuckling conviction that we're gonna do everything better than everybody else. And in the NBA, I think a lot of people have taken that as arrogance. And sometimes, he's hurt him. There's the light years ahead, comments. But the WNBA really needs a personality like that. Like the WNBA is this league where the growth potential is huge and it's a league that has been defined by scarcity and fear of losing when you make a big investment. And I think that it's nice that the league has somebody who's like willing to make big declarations and risk even potentially looking foolish because I think that it has actually just given his team the utmost confidence. He's obviously created expectations. You know, the Valkyries, they said year one, like before the franchise, they'd even played a single game that he wanted them to win a title in their first years. And look, now they are two years in, the 2-0 on the rating champions. They're one game away from making the WNBA finals. And I think a key aspect of how they've been able to do that is when you say something like that, I think they can be a tendency to rush. Like the franchise directive can become, oh, he wants a title right away. That means we have to trade all of our graphics and try to get stars in the building. And I think the Valkyries, while they have had those expectations, they have not operated with the pressure of the team that would make short-sighted decisions. If anything, I think that you could argue they've been overly patient. Some people have argued that they've been overly patient in certain moments, but you're seeing that paid dividends right now. Like I think that they have conviction about how they want to play and who they want to be. When certain players, even like you see a number one pick, their first number one first round draft pick in franchise history does not play a lot of minutes because while she's very talented, it has a lot of potential. She doesn't necessarily fit into what they are trying to do right now. Like I don't think she has a stamina or the defense yet. So she has to figure that out before she actually plays minutes for this team. Janelle Salon, someone who I love, I love, is not playing a lot of minutes in this series because this is a Kia Stoke series. This is a defensive series. And Janelle, frankly, just hasn't had a great postseason so far. They have a lot of conviction about stuff like that. And I think that it's easy to look at not playing young players like that and saying that's short-sighted or you're just trying to rush to a title, but I think it's really more about knowing exactly who you want to be and just executing that vision. And I see a lot of that trickling Jan from Joe. And one of the things that he told me was that like within an hour of his first conversation with Natalie, he knew that he wanted to hire her as a coach. I mean, he was watching her closely when he gave her that directive of, I want to win a title in the first four, five years. And he just didn't censor any fear in her at all. Like he was like, she was very aggressive, she was confident. She was like, that's exactly what I want to. Like if anything, him saying that, it made her excited. And that's when I think that he probably realized that they were kind of kind of kindred spirits in that way. Like those two, you started to realize like when you think about like the competitiveness and the confidence. And what he said, he was like, he said, you know, I shouldn't say this, but she has co-owness. And like we're gonna have to, we're gonna have to find, somebody creative is going to have to find the gender neutral term for co-owness at some point. So please, listeners right in. Now I just really, I'm probably inviting something. Anyway, but there's a fear of listeners with Natalie. And I think there's also like, I think this team, you know, trickles down from who she is. Like she is a five and a half, five one and a half, but UCLA walk on who has an incredible sense of belief, an incredible work ethic has always used her IQ over her athleticism in order to dominate at basketball. She's always valued defense and hard work and the details. And she has this group of players who are all bought into all the exact same things that they are. Like this, this group is completely an outgrowth of Natalie's philosophy and what she looks for in players down to, you know, Gabby Williams, who has like been their crown jewel, their first major free agent acquisition. She's been incredible for them. And I think that they just have, yeah, keep using the word conviction. I think they have a lot of conviction about the way that they want to win. And they have conviction about who they are. Like they know that they have better infrastructure than everybody else. They know that they have the best fans in the world. Like, you know, when he was selling Gabby on the team, like it was kind of a hard sell because it was like, look, like he's giving the hard sell. So it's like, look, like literally said to her, this is where like the arrogance comes in, but it's somewhat earned here. It's like, you know, she'd be stupid to go anywhere else. And that actually helped convince her to sign 'cause it's kind of like when you really put it in those terms, when you really start to think about free agency for them this season, potentially getting ahead of ourselves here. But I think that they're going to go very hard after Kelsey Mitchell. And I think that they're going to go very hard after a piece of collier. And they can put themselves in a position if they make a traitor too, where they could actually get both of those players. Like this could end up going from the strength and numbers team to the super team as well, right? Like kind of like the Warriors. Like they, there's no, there's no limits to the ambition of a team like this. Like they will try to be better than everybody in every possible way. And you know, Gabby was their first major acquisition, but I think that same, same so. Like this, like there's two game, winning these two games is a better audition than anything that they could say. But yeah, I want to talk about just the game and just the philosophy so that they used to win. So Natalie has talked a lot about rest, especially since she collapsed in game three. She has seemed to have just gone through a lot in the last week. She is somebody who was completely motivated by her dad and his relentlessness and his work ethic. But her dad also had an untimely passing and the way that she talks about it, it seems like there it was perhaps a result of him neglecting his health and choosing work over his health. And she found herself, I think, you know, a lot of kids of parents like this find themselves in similar situations where she found herself doing that. And then to after the game see her sister crying and her sister and her both actually saw their dad pass before their eyes. I think it was like she said, she said it was a huge, huge wake up call for her. So she is at now, she's wearing a heart monitor. She has people monitoring whether, you know, she's eating enough, how she's eating, like really being intentional about her diet, making sure that, you know, she's just taking care of herself. One thing that I thought was so fascinating was that she said that she actually took the day off and she had her coaches designed the game plan. And I don't know if like it's, I don't think you can understate how much trust that takes, not only to do, but then to tell the public that you did that. In a profession that is incredibly competitive and often, you know, like, it seems like this isn't the case in Golden State because she trusts them. But oftentimes your assistance can be the sort of snakes in the grass waiting to take your opportunity away from you because these jobs just are so scarce. So that just shows an incredible level of trust within that coaching staff. And I think that you see it on the floor with the players as well. Like they just have so much trust in each other. They have so much faith in each other. And it's why the strength and numbers philosophy works and why I think it's beating the Aces. Like the first 10 minutes of that game, only Asia and Chelsea had scored for the Aces and like five players had scored for the Balkyries. End of this game, no Balkyrie played more than 30 minutes. Gray, Jackie and Asia had 39 minutes, 36 minutes, and 37 minutes and 36 minutes, respectively. Chelsea Gray, 33 years old, playing 39 minutes. This is a group that has played 248 games together including the playoffs. They've played in multiple Olympics. They have gone through a lot of wars together, but they also just have a lot of mileage. And unfortunately for the Aces, they don't have a lot of health. They don't have Melissa Smith. They didn't have Jewel Lloyd. They got Steph Talbot back who I think made a contribution. They got Dana Evans back. she didn't really quote her. look like she was ready to play. Becky Hammett had to go to Clanny Brown. Frankly, I wish that she had played a small a little bit more and put Asia at the five, but then you also understand if you're going to, if Asia's only going to get four minutes of rest in a game, how much you also want to put her at the five, especially when last game, the Valkyries killed you on the boards. So that becomes an aspect of it too. But the way that this game shook out from the front court, Breeturner was absolutely unplayable. Natalie Nakassi has been putting Veronica Burton on Breeturner and just kind of allowing Veronica Burton to roam and wreak havoc and Breeturner has not been able to make any difference at all. I believe she produced a game with zero points. But beyond that, like this is somebody who's been brought in for her defense. She starts the second half and twice, she just like lets Gabby beat her in ways that just are a little bit unacceptable. Like the first one, she just lets Gabby go right, which like that's like, I just saw Becky there and I was like, okay, that's not what she's supposed to be doing. Gabby gets an immediate layup. Next one, she gets like a really, really easy jumper going to her left. After that, Becky realized, okay, I got to go to some other options here. We even saw it just deemed to saw it getting the game. This is a rookie second or third round pick who was on a developmental contract with the fever and was taken by the Aces, signed to a full contract. Had one great game where she had like four threes, but others in that has not played at all and frankly, like looked a little deer in the headlights as well. So that didn't really work either. So it's Colony Brown who ends up playing 24 minutes in this game. She has nine points. She goes three for eight and she had some free throws and she gets some rebounds and they just needed this size. Colony Brown is like six, seven. She's a mismatched nightmare. She was definitely early on getting some layups on the Valkyries and she started to wonder, okay, could this could this make a difference for them. But ultimately, this is someone who's played like, I think 18 total minutes this season. Like she was late at after Melissa Smith went down and is someone who's ultimately just like, like the reason that she wasn't on a regular season roster is because the way that the game has changed, she just can't really keep up with these guards that isolate her on switches and just get to the rim. And Tiffany Hayes, who was the best player for Golden State today, was just doing that not only against Colony, but every time Colony was on the court, Tiffany Hayes was like food. Okay, cool. Like we're going to get a pick and roll. We're going to get switched. I'm going to get to the rim or I'm going to get get a switch on you and just hit a jumper over you. It was really, really easy offense for her. She had 21 points. She got to the free throw line four times. She hit all eight of her free throws. She led the league. She led the team in point. She had 21 points in 17 minutes. And I think, well, of course, she's somebody who could potentially play more. She's also one of the oldest players in the league. She's 37 years old and she looks as fresh as she does. I think because of how much the Valkyries value rest, they actually canceled their shoot around this morning. They didn't practice the last two days. All they do is film sessions. I think that's going to become increasingly important in the WNBA is these seasons get longer. Like 44 games, this is and the Olympics is the first time that any teams are really doing that. So the fact that like, like the Valkyries, I think they don't, they don't even have anybody on their team. That's like top 30 in minutes. And I think Jackie and Asia are both like top 15 or something like that. Like they don't really let their players get a lot of mileage. And after the game, like they're very, very strict about routine regiment, even like, you know, Natalie is talking about, okay, they're going to Vegas. Everyone's going to be dehydrated. Like just things like that, like even the head coach is thinking about stuff like that. And it allows someone like Tiffany. Hey, she can come in and know 17 minutes that she's she's on the court. She knows that she can go full throttle. She knows that she can drive to the rim over and over again. And I think that ESPN had a stat that she has like, she's like top three in blowbys. This this this season, she made Kalani Brown look bad. She made Jackie young look bad. Like Jackie young just did not play very good defense for for a lot of big chunk of this game. And you just you just can't have that when you don't like when you're also just not getting answers anywhere else as well. Like when you when you have like you're just you're leaving too much up to Asia at that point, right? So he's has an incredible game. She completely takes advantage of that matchup. I thought Kayla Soren was incredible. She had some really, really timely threes as well. And it's just this is just a thing with the boundaries. Like it's you just don't know which one you're going to get like it's on Anita guy. And you know, like game one just like complete unknown comes in and like changes the complexion of the game. And then this time around it's it's Tiffany Hayes who like, you know, and just watching the restraint that Natalie had of like not putting her in. And so I think they're like about six minutes left in the in the fourth quarter a little bit under that. She could have definitely gone to the game earlier than that. But ultimately it was just enough, it was just enough for Golden State to sneak home with a was a 20 victory that before they hit the road here. So look, if you're the Valkyries here, the road it's going to get harder from here. You have to go to the Michael O'Barrina in Las Vegas. And you have to win a game against the best player in the world, the best player of all time in an elimination game. A player who thrives in elimination games, a player who isn't undoubtedly going to try to empty the clip. But I think they're going to do it. And I wouldn't be I wouldn't be surprised if they did it immediately because from the ace's side, this entire game had like the tenor of an elimination game. I think the player who probably has the most that they're sort of like asking themselves about what they need to do more is Jackie Young. But the thing is, if you're going to go single coverage on Asia Wilson with Kia Stokes with Kayla Thornton and you're going to just live with that, then it frees up Gabby Williams to just concentrate all of her defensive energy on Jackie Young. And the way that she has just prevented Jackie from getting comfortable and getting into any of the spots that she wants to, preventing her from getting to her right hand, it has just kind of taken her out of this series on the offensive side of the floor. She had 14 points today. She was two for seven. She got to the free throw line a bunch. That's probably something that aces can do. There are definitely times when once Kia Stokes got into foul trouble, things got a little bit dicey. But again, you kind of get into that strength and numbers aspect of it too, where they can kind of just go to that bench and see what they can get. So yeah, I just don't feel very confident in Las Vegas right now because this game felt like an elimination game from them just in a way that Becky Hammond was throwing everything in the kitchen sink at them like the different combination of bigs that they tried with Justine Passat, Kalani Brown, Cheyenne Parker, Tyus, all of them playing different minutes with Asia, Breeturner. I don't know if we'll see Breeturner much again in this series at all frankly. She had zero points, one rebound and she was a minus 13 and she was really tough, like really tough watch on both ends of the court frankly. My alma mater wasn't really able to do anything either. Maybe that changes when they go home make she could definitely be an ex-bacter. But I think honestly, I think I think Becky tried almost everything. I think the one thing I would be curious to see more of is just Asia at the five and see if you can just hit a bunch of threes because that's the other thing like look this series it's all about attrition and it's all about arithmetic. If you go single coverage on Asia Wilson then you're basically saying okay we're okay with you shooting a bunch of mid-range shots and we want to make sure that you don't get to the three-point line and ultimately like that's going to be a winning strategy for goal of the state. Like that's how you keep a really good offense like the Las Vegas aces at bay. It's like you don't let them start spraying through the three-point line. So far that strategy has worked for two straight games so I don't see a reason for them to stray away from it especially just like with Jack Young and her her inability to sort of make a mark on this series. She's a player that I'm looking to see the biggest change out of if you want to if you want to extend this series. If you're Las Vegas like maybe it's a matter of trying to get her onto some more favorable matchups. There aren't a lot of them. You know I think I think in the starting lineup Chechis and Lissini is probably the most favorable matchup that you can find and she's still a pretty good defender and they just she's a ton of size and they have a ton of room protection and they can help with the nail and they understand the game plan. They have multiple coverages that they can throw at you like I just think that they've completely flattened and exhausted this aces team to a place where I don't know like I don't know and all they will frankly have at the end. answers. Let's talk about the other game as well. Obviously, I didn't get like as much of a chance to lock it on this one because I was at the Valkyrie's game, but the Atlanta Dream beat the New York Liberty in overtime. They are now up to O in the series. I think that this is just a really tough matchup for the New York Liberty. New York lost in many of the same ways that it lost the first game. The turnover is a huge story. 16 to 7 turnover margin, 28 to 10 points off of turnover margin, 11 to 5 offensive rebounding margin. The biggest stat of the game to me, and this is Carl Smesco playing the Zoolaball, trying to win the possession battle and trying to make the most out of possession by getting offensive rebounds, forcing turnovers, and shooting threes. Atlanta got 20 more shot attempts than New York in this game. That you will not win a lot of basketball games getting out shot by 20. Frankly, it's a miracle that New York was even able to drag this game to overtime. It's a miracle named Marine for through. She was fantastic in this game. She hit a ton of big shots. She hit the go ahead three to send the game to overtime. Best believe we were freaking out on a media row there, but the turnovers really did them in. Sabrina with the driving kick into the stands at a key moment in overtime was a really tough turnover. Then the final play of the game, which I'm understanding was a source of controversy, because Brianna Stewart thought that the Liberty didn't have any reset timeouts, because that's what the referees told her according to her. However, they did have reset timeouts, and the reps are saying they didn't tell her that they didn't have reset timeouts. This is one of the more absurd, he said she said, and it will be going on my running list of referee decisions that potentially determine high leverage moments in big games, lists that I'm making. If anybody has suggestions for that, please send them my way. I'm going to probably, I don't know, maybe I'll debut it before the finals. Maybe we'll save it for a rainy day, but that list is growing and that that moment is definitely going on it. But then even if you look at the play itself, it's like you have guard-to-guard screening action going, and both guards are going away from the ball. So there's a miscommunication. Neither of them are going to the ball, and then Leonie Febidge is forced to throw a really long pass over the team that's been getting steals on them and turning them into offense all game. So an Atlanta dream player gets a hand on it, Brianna Stewart ends up getting the ball, but she has to take a chaotic last minute attempt. They don't really get a shot off, and the Atlanta dream survives. And I think that this is all repeatable. I think even with Alicia Gray out, like you have this like Bermuda Triangle of Angel, Reese Jordan, Canada, and Brian Howard, and the defensive end that's very, very difficult to deal with. And then you throw the one-up honor in there as well. And it's just, it's just a line. I think, I think, you know, size was going to be really important in physicality, was going to be really important. I think JJ in particular has really, really struggled with the physicality. And that's why you see some of the turnovers, like Angel Reese getting that huge, huge tearing the ball with the jump ball was incredible. Angel had five offensive rebounds that were huge too. But Haan Ju, like I think, you know, going into the series with an illness was a huge X factor. Just played a total of 15 minutes in the series so far and had a total of three points. I think in any version of the Liberty winning this series, like she probably would have had a big part of it. Same with Pauline Astaire, who's kind of been taken out of it as well. It's just, it's just kind of, it's a really tough matchup. And I don't think that thing don't want to do with like, with Ryan Howard, who again, like, literally has like another, another five or 20 game, but another one where I felt like I'm not mad at it because it was a really impactful one as long as she's being aggressive and trying to get to the rim, like I'm not going to be upset about what she does. And then just the things that Angel Reese is able to do defensively, like I think she clogs up in each space, probably better than anybody else in the league right now. I will, I will refrain from like saying too much, like those are the things that I saw in the times, like that I watched this game. Stefan, do you want to come in as our resident Liberty fan offer your thoughts on the New York side of it? I need a cigarette, first of all, between watching the Liberty and the Yankees tonight. I am just, it was just so bad. Just I watched, let me tell you like the five minutes fan that I had, I had watched the Liberty. Basically, I watched Sabrina throw the ball into the third row. And then I look up and Max free gives up a two run home run. The game ends and then Anthony Boep, he looks like he's hitting a two run home run, which turns it to a fan interference or the fan grabs the ball out of reach instead of it being a home run. It's just a one run lead. Yankees lose four three, the Liberty just look, um, they just look bad, but uh, it's given it's given three to one cancun. Yeah, it is. And I will say it's something up, it's like the turnovers are like four team that has won a title and has been a contended team for years. Like this is just like, I don't get it, like it's just like weak passes across like nobody can throw an entry pass. Nobody's like looking to make a cut. Like it's literally just very stagnated offense. Whereas it's like, if it's not coming off a stewie pick and roll or a JJ pick and roll or a pick and pop, there's no kind of offense being created outside of that. And it's like, all right, this team's just going to sit and watch you guys do the same thing over and over. And it's like, Oh, okay, we see it coming. We're going to just go take them. Yeah, they're literally, they're literally for you. They're literally, they're ball watching. Wait for somebody to make the wrong play. And I think the other thing that it's just like, my bozzling is that they continue to stick to the same script. They're like, we're just going to let Jordan can't shoot. And it's like, no, it's not working. She's hitting the shots. You have to like guard her. You have to guard her. And you have to box out. I feel like every, uh, their coach said it in the last, they, they biked up the coaches in that last like 30 seconds of regulation. Where they're like, he says, yo, get a good shot. We're up three. Don't give up a three. But if the shot goes up, we're getting a rebound. Like not even a second guess of like, make sure you box out. No, we're getting a rebound. Guess what they did, sir. They got the fucking rebound. So it's like, if everybody in the world, those who's going to happen and you guys don't what's going to happen, there's no extra effort there to like stop this from happening. It's so frustrating to watch. But I mean, this is the same team that we've been watching all year. This is a reason why they are in eighths coming into this playoff run. Um, yeah, the size, the size is bothering them. Uh, do we have to have a conversation about the links being even worse than maybe we thought they were after that series. I don't know. I think I think the dream are good. The dream are good as far as and then there's just something different. Like Jordan, Canada, knocking down these threes all the time, really. And like everybody shooting a ball really, really well on that team changes the complete outlook. And the fact that they're doing us without Alicia Grayson's like, even more stunning to me, but they just they're playing with an energy where is it's like, we know we could beat you guys. We're way more tougher than you guys. Like, and I think that's been happening to Liberty all see but I want to yeah, they look small. Yes, which is what they look at. They look physically small. Sometimes when they play them, like not in the way that they're like actually small as a big team, they look shrunken down. Yeah, there's nothing no one can do. Like, but they do have a lot of like Ryan Howard and DeWanabiner being your wings and then you still got Angel Reese down there. It does help it down there. It's like, all right, yeah, that is pretty tough to do it. Like Jordan, Kevin, it's just a menace on defense in passing lanes, just doing whatever the fuck she wants. Just getting on the Sabrina skin. We and to your point, I am shocked. They didn't change the coverage on her. She's shooting 47% from three, but then also the other thing is like she's one of the best drivers in the lead too. So if you're gonna spend the game closing out on her, well, she's just gonna drive on you and then it's gonna pull all this pressure on your front court that frankly does not handle pressure very well. Like, I don't care what the block numbers say at the end of the day, with JJ, like the block numbers pile up because players just keep going at her and going at her and like, they're gonna win the math. Yeah, overall, even if they do get blocked sometimes. Yeah, I don't know. I just I just don't like the idea of like every time they're gonna get the offensive rebound, they're gonna kick it out, but there's no one to like guard or like follow the swing or like help to help. There's just like everybody scrambling for the rebound. You don't get and then you look up with risk going in. It's like, all right, somebody has to do something differently here. And I don't know what it is. Phoebe just looks a little bit outworked as well. I think she's just like not in a good spot defensively like she I don't think she can keep up with the smaller guys that they have and I don't think she's quick enough to keep up with like the Ryan Houds at the world and then I think it's frustrating her to yeah so you see it on offense as well where it's just like it's not there it's not there I don't know I don't know what more Stewie could do I'm so sorry Stewie you you did you did everything you needed to do they had 50 and half and you had 25 it's like and you're still losing by two I don't know what else you can do like there's no other like there's no other response or no more energy where it's just like she's tired like as you look into the second half she just can't put anything in a cup but she's expended all her energy in the first half trying to keep this team afloat like just to keep this a 2.1 point game going into half and it's like oh well we still need you to save us at the end of the day like Sabrina is being hassled and I don't know if she has to get off the ball to catch the ball I'd like a lot of she just can't get any of these wings off her there well she's dealing with Ryan Howard their honor that's like ultimately the issue it's the same it's honestly this is a very similar series stylistically in terms of like what the big issues are for the players that are struggling like I watched Jackie young and I don't know what the solution is I see the frustration on her face because she can't get anything going on offense and she keeps getting beat on defense it defense and it's like did well that's Gabby Williams and with Sabrina it's just like that's Ryan Howard like what are you going to do about it yeah this uses happen it's just tough but I don't want a heart more on this I just that that was a I've tried to give Chris the marker a lot of like rope I think he burnt in a complete rope tonight yeah like not knowing you don't have not knowing you have an advance time out it's just like yeah that's all a message bro like not knowing I think Jonathan cold is going to have to really look in the mirror at that higher the only thing I can see him the only way I can see him coming back if they come back and win the next three games and even then I don't even they're not going to do it right they're not going to do it there's not I just I don't even know if that saves him enough like I still think that's like well if you pull off the first comeback from down oh two in w and b a history yeah you'll get to keep your job but it's just not happening I don't honestly I don't even know if the win a game in this series to be honest I think they come out with something at bark I think bark they just gives them a little juice to get them something on Friday I don't think they come out I think they come out with like a test. They come out with something or but they'll come out with something but will they win I think they'll have enough desperation on Friday I do I do believe they'll win just right now Sunday for their own say now Sunday I don't know if they if they'll have anything left in the tank but I think they come out with a sense of desperation on Friday and it looks like a team that wants to stay alive I don't know if they make it past the game for and I hope but I just I think this series is a total matchup nightmare for them yeah like you said Phoebe just there's not much of a role for her in this series if she's not hitting her three is she doesn't like she's not playing much Joe Hannes will ask me is like it's some matchups just don't work like sorting Canada is is like a perfect like of all of pulling nasty like against 14 other teams 13 other teams nobody can really stop her from getting to her first step and getting to the rim well you have Jordan Canada guarding you and then you got help coming in from the nails in the form of a bonner or a Ryan Howard and if you get through all of that you're dealing with Angel Reese that's just a lot and then Sabrina Ryan has taken her out of it JJ the physicality like she like she put her numbers up offensively but the physicality is just a lot for her still we can do silly things it's ultimately not enough pond isn't herself this is not a marine series this can't this is not a marine series for the same defensive ball pressure reasons back allens retiring in five minutes like you just go down the list like this just it's really hard like you got you got the miracle marine game and you could you had to win this one you had to win this one for this to be a series I like the only thing to me like okay maybe to want a bonner like like obviously like did it she didn't have the same offensive performance yeah I thought I think the game she was trying to validate a little bit too much personally I think like she had a lot of good looks she was trying to get an M1 instead of just going up straight and shooting it that stopped her from scoring like her last like five shots that she put up but yeah like you said I don't see a way out of it but I do I do have faith that they'll come out with some kind of energy on Friday I do for some strange reason I do this team is weird like they'll come out everybody look they are strange they are the most unpredictable team they are like if you told me they forced the game five as well I would also be yeah it's fucking team they're gonna bring me to a game five just to like rip my heart out like stop for it one more last time like we're gonna leave you with something special they are absolutely that type my official prediction is honestly that delivery loses in three I think that they have a real you just get ready there's a human there's a human element of this too where I do really think this team is like dying to keep hanging out together the fact that you act that it's like oh man I mean would you would you think that do we what are the greatest players of all time way to the ref to act the ref they have a timeout rather than her coach it's very I'm sorry that is so that to me it's just like that's the telling side where it's just like all right something was off there because like at least you will look at the bench and you'll be like yo we got a timeout or somebody would tell my coach hey we got an advance let's just take it here yeah set up to play I know you have a a game winning down to replay that you could run yeah that that was that was insane but I know this sounds okay but I truly believe that when it comes to winning elimination games I think the teams that like each other have a psychological edge and I don't see a lot of reasons for the players of liberty this is nothing against any of them individually I just think this season has been such a nightmare that like sometimes it's like you get to the end of the day and you just want the day to be over so you can like turn the page and let it be tomorrow like this is not a commentary on any of them individually is like competitors I would have a very hard time if I was them looking at the person beside me and thinking I really want to fight for them and I think that's like what separates them from the aces like the aces I could very much see winning two games in the series like like winning three is very very difficult um I could still like the aces are the aces are obviously exhausted but like it's Asia Chelsea and Jackie it's Becky Hammond we've seen them in elimination games we've seen we know how hard they ride for each other they don't win that title last year exactly like they want this for each other they want to do it together they have more matchup advantages as well that they can potentially try to exploit to like I could see them actually like like I ultimately at this point I like my prediction will be that the boundaries win but like that's a team that I could see actually like mounting a comeback I don't see that for the liberty I just don't like I just feel like they're going to be like all right I guess that's the season you know and yeah it will there's going to be some more questions that need to be like there will be an identity crisis what is this team um is this the end of the big three-era like yeah a lot of questions need to be asked if it that ultimately goes out this way which I we all predicted this going to go out this way um and yeah I can't believe they were in my Olivia Miles profile see you guys you guys you guys you're gonna do this and come out like like come on you're like you're gonna sweep the links and then this is what you're gonna do like are you kidding me they played a really good game tonight it comparison to Sunday they played a good game tonight Sunday was embarrassing because they just kept throwing just terrible chess passes to each other and tonight thank you I went a little more hard still very sloppy still very that executed the right way but a little bit more hard I'm sorry your Olivia Miles profile was amazing by the way and thank you nobody will have read it we'll reheat the nachos at some point this all season like remember that don't story you wrote a few months ago that you spent a few days you know one of your favorite stories wrote this season um yeah it's I think it's over for them I truly do yeah you're not wrong like I'm not you're a thousand percent right on no for sure you're fed like you should believe in them no no I I know this is like getting ready to be over I didn't expect this to be this far I honestly didn't think we were gonna be the links to be completely honest I thought this was over like you know what you just happy to make the playoffs and whatever happens when they play pretty good against the links you're like okay maybe there like one of those weird teams is gonna get high at the right time but like As you mentioned, it's just a nightmare matchup for them and I don't know, man, somebody has. They haven't beat him in a real game all season. Also another point. Yeah. It's just not the right, it's not the right matchup. Yeah. Angel is just, I am, I, I will be on a bandwagon after the good of some sort riding it because she's just done like some things in this series where it's like, all right, well, we want to force the bow to Angel until like make her make, make free throws to beat us and she's just sinking them to the line. No problem. Those, those, those free throws were ice cold. Also that lay up, that lay up from the pass from Nazeleman to, yeah, and just every freaking rebound, she just falls in, like she is getting under J.J. skin, like J.J. is so frustrated with her because she just, it's relentless. She doesn't stop. Like, it's just constant, I'm going to get this rebound, I'm going to get this block, I'm going to force this jump bomb, just going to wreak have it for all 40 minutes of the game and she's just there every moment that she don't think she's going to be there. She's right here in the middle of it. Oh, here's another thing. Do we play 43 minutes? There's nothing more than she could do. Like, I'm sorry, you, you were incredible tonight. You'd ever seen that meme of the kid who like yells at his football team was like, we didn't lose, it's that job what we lost, the coach is lost, that's the most incredible meme. Who's your, who's your dream Liberty coach next season? Man, I don't know, honest, what does the team look like? I can't, what's your, well, do you have a dream pre-agent acquisition to trade that you really want to see? Don't know, like, to be completely honest, I think they need to, I think it's going to hurt me to say this because I love her, but I think it might be time for Sabrina to go. I think so. I just, it's feeling like that and you kind of just make the most out of story and JJ and maybe you turn Sabrina into like somebody who's a little, I don't know, more defensive minded at this point. Like, I have no idea. Like, I'm. Sabrina, Sabrina, you asked you for the Portland fires first round pick in the series draft, which would be what? Top five pick? No, it's a top five pick, yeah, it'll be, I think it'll be three, I mean, double check. Oh, no, it's five, I don't know, I thought that. So it'll be, it'll be fifths or it's odds or that'll be, it'll be fifths for her Carla late and salary. Take your pick. Anybody but Bridget Carlton, Sarah Ashley Barker toward her ACL, me and take your pick of who you want. I could be talking to that. I don't know to the, this Portland make that rules is Sabrina's like value that high today to get a top five pick, like, would you trade a top five pick for Sabrina and Esco right now? Well, you know how I feel, I wouldn't, but I think maybe for a team that thinks that they can revive her, maybe for a coach that is looking at it and saying, okay, Sabrina, you know, excuse, probably never going to be worse. We're going to get her at a bargain because of that. She's still Sabrina, you know, excuse. She's going to go back to Portland or she played Hoops at Oregon. There is that automatic immediate connection there and then maybe Alex Sarama can put her under the CLA and try to make some magic out of her and she she can regain her confidence act. She's just like running in offense and getting to just gun as well running more pick and rolls than anybody else in the league. I could see it. I mean, it is a good shake up. You go into next season, you got Carla late running point, that's much better defense. And then you could try to get in the draft and you get your shooting guard in the draft, you know, get like an actual, Michaela Williams type, I think she could, she could do some things. Yeah. Yeah. Or if the bench. Well, Marines are going to try to make some money. Yeah. This off season. Um, I don't know. Washington, Mystics would be a good trade partner too. They need some shoe in desperately over here. They need some shooting. They need a point guard and they have what you guys need as far as like athleticism and defense. They could kind of mask all her deficiencies. And they have, yeah, exactly. Like it'd be a really, really good fit for her as well. Oh, I don't know. Let's get to get to Friday. I'm not ready to write the picture. It's getting sad. I'm ready to write my Yankees, a picture area by hand and like we need to get rid of our GF, and our coach right now. Uh, our GF, but our band is just saying now I'm just like. I'm not going to count our coach. I think he could still like slip a good prospect and get somebody and like, you know, he's. He's pretty good at getting his free agents. I won't give him that. He's pretty great. He's great at that. He's just a hiring coaches. Yeah, he's got he's got to figure out how to hire better coaches. Yeah. I don't know. I throw something out the wall. Teespoon. Can we throw a teaspoon idea at the wall? Is that out of pocket or is it like too close to home? I just don't think she has the experience for this gig. Okay. Throw it out the wall. She just. She could. I will, you know, I think I think as the Houston comments first coach, I think that could be very interesting. Her own low coach for her. Yeah, but I think trying to coach a championship team like. I don't know that like Brianna Stewart at her age like means like a raw raw motivator coming in every day. Yeah. Like I just not really what you're looking for at that at that point, but you know, if you got like you got the young Connecticut son coming in, I think I think she can move. I think she get get something shaken with, with a, but it's tough. You just came across my head as you like said, kind of coach. No, it's because it's very difficult to actually come up with these candidates sometimes. Yeah. Which is don't really. It's hard to know. Renika Hodges. Maybe. Yeah. I could, I could get down with some Renika Hodges. But there's going to be some vacancies. The two biggest markets might have some vacancies could be interesting. Stefan. Thank you so much. Appreciate you. Appreciate you too. Thanks for having me. Thank you for producing. Thank you for staying up late and waiting for me to get through all the interviews and stuff. Thank you, Paul Holler for an incredible experience. That was very, very cool. So if you are a dream fan or a Liberty fan, we're left a little wanting. I do apologize. I am heading to New York right after this. So we're going to flip things around for the next episode. And I will be able to give you guys a ton of insight on, on that series or potentially a finals preview as well, depending on the way things shake out the next time we pod. Appreciate you all for listening, playoffs have been incredibly fun. I guess now we wait and see what the Sid T. P. Slaughterhouse podcast holds with the Caitlyn Clark exit interview as well, everybody, reminder, drink water, touch grass. And remember that the WNBA is pretty great and the doctors are pretty good evidence of that. So let's, let's, let's, let's maintain perspective tomorrow. Let's not doom scroll. Talk to your families, play catch, shoot some groups, etc. [Music]