Hi man. Hi my little McDonald's cheeseburger. Yeah that was a real good insight into your brain though right when it's under pressure. Where does it go? And the answer is straight to the cheeseburger. I love a cheeseburger. This might actually be a lie in today's topic. We're talking gaming, video gaming, that kind of thing and there's one thing I know about you Hayden is that you love video games. Yes yes yes yes. Video games. Yes yes yes. I love video games. What what are you playing at the moment and why do you love playing video games so much? I've been stuck for a really long time just playing Elden Ring over and over again. It's like a weird pattern that's sort of been forged in my brain a road that I just have to constantly walk down and I've played hundreds and hundreds of hours of the game Elden Ring. If I think about the games you play, you like to play kind of role-playing games don't you? You like to sort of inhabit a different life for a while? Yes. Is it inhabit a different life? I think that the thing that really gets me about role-playing games is the constant and incremental improvement. I'm like it's like crack to me. I'm also very high level in Pokemon Go because it's the same thing just slightly improving meeting goals. I feel like there must be some sort of deep-seated psychological programming/malfunction that's going on in the back of my brain that I just have to keep leveling up in these games and it gives me such great satisfaction. I can feel people diagnosing me right now. Do you feel like you're improving in your own life as well or just in the game world? If anything I think I'm getting worse, just calcifying, you know, just calcifying into my bad habits. I'm David Farrier and New Zealand are accidentally marooned in America and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now I get very excited whenever we have to have guests on the couch who are not from America because I get to rant and rave about America even more because I have someone with me to gang up on Rob. In this episode we're joined on the couch by Raul Coley. Raul is from London moving to Los Angeles where he ended up being cast in some of my favourite TV shows including IZombie and Netflix's Midnight Mass. But what really caught my attention recently is that Raul is starring in a massive video game. As in his likeness is the main character, he's the guy that you play. This is interesting to me because while gaming in America tends to be a pretty notoriously white space and Raul is not white. The game Sauros is getting rave reviews, Raul's dreams come true. But along with that he's touched a nerve. We wanted to get him on the show to talk about his impression of the United States and how it's changed over the years, especially through the lens of acting and gaming. So get comfy and grab your controllers because this is the video games with Raul episode. Rob, I'm back from New Zealand. You're back, welcome back. Thank you. Successfully through customs. They let me back in. I bought you some gifts. Would you like them at the top of the show? Let's move to the end of the show. Can I give you one to start with? And I'm going to dribble them out. I am going to bring Zent you with a Cadbury Crunchybar. This is like Gold in New Zealand. It is, we would say New Zealand, Hoki Poki on the inside, chocolate on the outside. I believe Americans would say, honeycomb? We had Hoki Poki honeycomb. We had it when the New Zealand ice cream truck came for one of our live shows. And it was my favorite flavor. The best. Is Cadbury a New Zealand brand? Oh God. Because we have Cadbury eggs here. You know, look, I'm going to Google this. This is a really good example of how the more I spend time in America, the less I know my roots. So it's British. Yeah. Spun off from craft foods since 2010. Weirdly growing up in New Zealand. And this probably is why my brain farted. It's marketed so heavily with very specific like New Zealand things. Like when we did that Milky Bar Kid episode for Nestle, growing up I was like Nestle is a New Zealand brand clearly. The Milky Bar Kid has a New Zealand voice. Not knowing how marketing works and that they localize it in every area. Well, but you can't get them here. Is that true? I have never seen a crunchy bag in America. I mean, it looks delicious. It looks like I reckon give the kids a little bit. Save a little Info Vincent and a little Info Calvin. Maybe Natalie a bit of the middle. And then you have the other half. Uh, smell chocolate. So she won't be able to have it. But just nibble off the chocolate. And she can have the honeycomb. She'll love that. Look. One other bit of trivia. When I got back to America, my neighbor was giving things away from their storage. And she presented me with Hangman, the board game. The cover says Hangman, a classic American game for two. Two things jump out. I didn't really think of Hangman as being American. And I also have only played Hangman as a game on paper where you just draw it out. So I'm curious what an entire board game world is built up around this very simple concept. Yeah. I mean, in the fact it's that game has a hole on paper like Calvin's played Hangman. So say it's such a it's such a bleak game. Yeah. It's like you were hanging hanging is dark. It's bleak. It's execution. But as a kid, I don't know that it was I was fully associating this person's being executed as I'm playing it. You're just drawing a person you draw. Yeah. And I didn't think you draw the rope around the neck or a line. And I never thought this person is the the ground is being brought out from underneath them. That dropping. Their neck is breaking. That was never there. Yeah. I would it would be more like you're getting detail. You're getting fingers drawn and then shoes and you're putting clothes on them. And it was it's pretty fucked up that it's insane. That was elementary school like elementary school you're playing Hangman. Also it makes me think of that board game episode we did ages ago where I discovered that in New Zealand it was snakes and ladders. But in America they made it shoots and ladders because snakes were allegedly too scary. Kind of insane when Hangman is your classic American game. We are killing a man. It's like snakes are no good. This cover has a guy with a noose. It's no it's very yeah no it's a man with a noose. You know he's in sort of Western time. He's in a Western village. But it's still pretty. I mean ages on the box eight to adults. So eight. Not yeah yeah yeah. I don't know. I'm not a parent. I don't know when do you teach your kids about hanging about execution styles. Anyway gaming. I'm excited about today's episode because how this came about I was in a best bite which we don't have in New Zealand. Guy I hope that's still true. And I think they're closing. They're not opening. So they expanded yeah to New Zealand. We just got a Costco a couple of years ago. So we have Costco now. I don't know what the local New Zealand treat is on their menu. I should find out. Anyway I was in a best bite and I as someone that used to play a lot of video games. I'm always curious. So I wander through the Xbox aisle and the PC aisle and the PlayStation aisle. And I saw this guy I know on the front cover of this new PlayStation game was giant poster. I'm like, oh, what are you doing on here? This is insane. Did he answer? He wasn't in the store. I loudly announced it. Nothing happened. People just looked at me weird. And I thought he would be a great person to get in here because I think gaming is a huge topic. He's incredibly passionate about games. I also clocked that he is not from America. So I thought we could talk some shit about America and get his perception. And also just the nature of him being a brown guy as a man character in a video game. I kind of had a feeling that would have created some ripples and was curious to kind of get his take on how that was for him. Yeah. Well, before we get into it with him. Yes. I'm interested to hear kind of your personal background with video games because it's it's so generational. It deeply. Because when I was a kid we had Super Nintendo. And then I remember one then in 1064 came out. You're a little bit older so and and international. So I don't know if that changes. I want to compare. I want to know what your formative the thing we are mind was kind of blowing and drawing into a game like what that was. Yeah. Well, it's it's weird because there's waves. Every time there's a new generation of video games it changes. So when I was a kid we had Super Nintendo. I was big into the sport games. There was Brett Holhockey and big hurt baseball NBA Jam. I know NBA Jam NBA Jam was a big one. So sport all the way for you. You wanted to play these games. And then there was Donkey Kong Mario Land.
Mario Kart were you playing these at your house or friends houses or both both yeah, so we we had a super Nintendo And my friend that lived behind us had a regular Nintendo Okay, so in the games all are different and then my neighbor who was a little bit older had a Sega so We'd sometimes go over to his house to play Sonic yeah, and there's these lines kind of drawn between all of these games I mean like Dreamcast came out at some point to and then took a disc and you're also seen kind of the socioeconomics at play of kids at school that are wealthier completely who has what who are getting the new consoles every new day they come out and it is Weirdly this like status thing that starts happening all the way, but but at first very pure I feel like Super Nintendo with with like the Mario and the Donkey Kong and diddy Kong and then I do remember that are being a big transformation when Nintendo 64 came out and Mario World 64 came out. That was a big moment where it was here's this 3d world with Mario Gold and I golden I cannot express how big golden I was and with me and my friends loved golden I was Still it's still good if you can get your hands on that console. Yeah, I mean later Holy shit It's going through like the vents with our job and the best finding the golden gun. Yeah, hell yeah But that at that young age also being introduced to like weapons as a result But again, it's almost like hangman where yeah, I think societally maybe different But it wasn't Necessarily this like click and association of violence. I couldn't agree more and I think that yeah I mean, that's where the whole debate around violence and video games comes from right is like what it's teaching you and doesn't reflect in real life But I agree I never thought when I was shooting things in video games as a kid Extreme violence in front of me. I never once associated it with any kind of real life action. It was all fantasy Yeah, and I don't know that's because you were so far removed from weapons from gun culture like if if my dad was a hunter and we had guns Around maybe that association would have been different, but yeah, your brain going gone was so foreign Yeah, you're brain if your if your parents were big hunters say your brain would be going Oh, maybe I could do this with a real gun as opposed to going. This is a dumb video game. Yeah, yeah I feel like my way in as you're talking my brains popping in so many ways because there's crossover despite ask definitely having Different things at different times my first video game experience ever the only fairy family trip we've ever taken was to Canada Because my mom up to she left school went into the year in I believe Vancouver babysitting like nannying for a family And so we all went over to Canada when I was about I would have been seven probably she was still nannying at that time just do nannying now we're back to like visit her family that she nannied for and I I'll try and find some photos to put up because I looked incredible So anyway, the family who was staying with They had a Verona very early Nintendo's I wish I could say what it was, but it was super Mario world So it was my first super Nintendo then would it be super Nintendo? Because it was the side scrolling slot where you would put it in not open up Absolutely put it in. Yeah, this was Very long time ago. Yeah, square controller. Yeah, I blow the scroller blow on the bottom of the game if it wasn't working Oh, yeah, absolutely both the shit off and I just remember being Something in my brain fundamentally shifted and changed And a similar way that I think kids brain shift when they get given and I've had these days or something like that brain It's a moment you can never go back from yeah And there's a photo of me and my brother laying on the floor. It's our first time overseas Most of our time we just wanted to be playing that video game as opposed to seeing Niagara Falls or or going and looking at a Mounty or maple syrup or what are the fuck Canadians do? So that was like my first thing and then it went I Was at school sort of fast forward when I'm sort of 13 14 15. I Was a computer monitor, which is lower tier in A social scene than being a librarian. It was rough I basically was in the computer rooms volunteering during the day and Would help out in the computer labs if and I'd like clean the mice like back in the day I'm a mouse would have a ball in it. It wasn't lasers. It got gunked up by like It's hard like sweat public use of a month. Yeah, and so my job was to like pop the balls out and like clean them Have you ever taken like your keyboard in shake? Oh, I do it Once a week. Yeah, awful. Yeah. Oh, so clean your keyboard everyone Anyway, in there I got massively into all the first press and shooters So descent and doom and quake. Yeah, and doom is something that I would Daydream about at school All I wanted to do was get home and get into that world's doom was It's hard to describe how much it took over my head doom was kind of scary too that one beast that would run after you Oh fucking terrifying that you could not it was hard to kill, right? It was hard to kill and Playing through the quakes as well. I was I was it's hard to describe how obsessed I was with gaming I Would on weekends would take my computer my get my parents had dropped me off at a friend's house And we'd network them up and have land parties over the weekend It's I'm basically just trying to say I was the biggest gaming nerd imaginable and Then got into Xbox and then kind of just eventually sort of dropped off. I've completely dropped off. I probably until I was 18 maybe university. It was all I did. Yeah, and now it's like this world that I wish I Was still into but I've just dropped off and that's why Rahul is interesting to me because he Never stopped. He's an adult who is just kept playing and is slowly being Voice like getting in tech she being acting in games. He was a voice in a character in Diablo 2 It's obviously this new one is huge for him But I kind of look at I kind of wish I was still into it. I get what you mean. There's like a nostalgia and a feeling There's an escapism to video games And just like a simpler time. I like I remember playing Video games like a sleepover Sleepover until 7 a.m. The sun's coming up in your playing video game still got goosebumps literally got goosebumps thinking about that It was the best feeling. Yeah, so I miss that time, but there's as you get older there's a guilt to being productive Or not I should you I should that to build I share that with you. Yeah, we're where the idea of Sitting for two hours and playing a video game as a parent Yeah, and as someone that works a lot. Yeah, seems irresponsible in my brain like that's the case. I'm building as To why I could not play video games. That's exactly me. I think you know to I think it's guilt I think it's I feel it if I'm Watching a TV show for too long on my butt. I think you get around that by doing work while you watch stuff I struggle to do two things at once, so I can't but the idea of sitting down like I used to for eight hours It's just I'm riddled with guilt about what I should be doing I can't even imagine what that would be when you're also like raising kids. Yeah, cuz that's a whole other I'm just talking about I should be doing some work or maybe like checking in on some friends We do those start to bleed into like Calvin has gotten a little into the switch So it can be a bonding thing with your kid. That's cool. So you're playing Mario cat with your kid. That's a whole other thing. We've done that Yeah So there is there was the whole the whole world of Xbox versus PlayStation versus computer games I think was interesting huge cuz it Xbox and PlayStation were kind of battling for market superiority They were just trying to one up each other all the time. I feel like still are but I'm doing degrees and success I don't I feel like Xbox hasn't put out a new console in a while. I feel like when I was in Best Buy PlayStation has all the real estate Xbox felt like a tiny section one night I do think recently. I remember reading something controversial happened with PlayStation where You if you bought some stuff that you were supposed to own from the platform. Yeah, they've removed some from their catalog and You you don't have it anymore that adds into the whole physical media debate Where is you don't have a thing on disk and it gets removed your fact Xbox and PlayStation I think heaven moving more and more digital Without the actual physical game and you're spying it from the store and downloading it But then hard drive space becomes the thing this whole all that is all subscription based obviously Yeah, and then computer gaming I feel like was a whole nother world which was almost the next level of Video gaming. Yeah, I feel like and again, I'm talking from the perspective of someone that stopped doing this like 20 years ago And so any gamers I think forgive me, but I feel like PC was always seen as being the elite hardcore if you're a real game You have a PC. Yeah, you got a keyboard unit keyboard. You need a mouse for that specific
shop shooting that you're gonna do. - Well, I mean, we would go to the internet cafes 'cause they had the T1 internet. - And play Counter-Strike. - Internet cafe culture was incredible. - Just counter-strike, everyone in their chain smoking. Next to you, different times, different days entirely. - I can still smell. - Just to kind of state how much I was into games from I guess sort of nostalgia point of view. When I was a reporter in New Zealand, I ended up going to E3, which doesn't happen anymore, but it took over the LA Convention Center and was basically the launch for all the new games that are coming out that year. And I just bring this up because that was the year, because I had to come over and keep the trip really cheap and book the cheapest places possible. That's when I stayed at the Cecil Hotel in downtown LA. And that's where I found out later that it was, I was staying there when the woman was still in the water tank. On the roof, and I showered and drank from the tap. So that's one note around games. I also at one point during that sort of reporting time ended up in Galway in Ireland. And I sat down and played Doom with John Romero, who is the guy that co-created that game. And that was just fucking heaven. That was so cool. - Yeah. - Oh my god, I just wanna say how cool that was. - One other thing before we get another, interview, do you remember when Grand Theft Auto came out? - I remember. - What do you remember the 2D PlayStation version of it? - No, I came in, no, actually, I'm gonna, I sort of lied then. I don't have a defining memory of that. I know this phenomenon, and I know how exciting it was to play, but I didn't have a come to God moment, like I think a lot of people did. - Yeah, I think that maybe can be its own episode, 'cause that GTA, I think there's another one that you and me now, that too, just in future, is everyone's very excited about. I think one and two were on PlayStation, and it was just like an aerial 2D version of it. And then GTA 3 came out, and that was the one that everyone. - It blew people's minds. - Yeah. - 'Cause that was open worlds, incredibly violent. So many side quests, holy shit. - Yeah. - And it's still going. - Yeah. And then last cultural phenomenon came for me, Tony Hawk, Pro Skater, what those came out. I, during COVID, got, they like reissued Pro Skater 1 and 2, and we had like an Xbox in the garage. So I got it. It was insane to see my muscle memory playing that game. 15 years later of like, oh, triangles grinding. And yeah, just how quickly my fingers could click back into that game. - I hadn't gone anywhere. - No. - I literally like riding a bike, jump back on. - Yeah. - Do you play anything now, or you haven't for a while? - No, it's been a while. - Do you do kids? - Yeah. - Post, that whole world would just get in, I would just get into sports games. During sports season, so when it's football season, I would play Madden. - You mentioned NBA Jam earlier. I did get into that, and that was the last point. We touched on this briefly in the Blockbuster episode, but I think we would both do that thing where we would rent a console on the weekend. And I just remember renting it. Siga Mega Drive 2 was the thing that my family would get, and when I say family, I just mean me. And I just remember going so hard on NBA Jam, echo the dolphin, flashback, a bunch of Sonic games, Golden Axe Street Fighter II, Mortal Kombat. - Yes. - As I think about the Mortal Kombat, was a huge part of my life. - Yeah. - And weirdly growing up, again, it goes back to the violence, Mortal Kombat, and I grew up in a pretty, you know, Christian conservative. All that stuff was kind of okay. - Yeah. - Like weirdly, it was all right. It was like fantasy, and I loved it. - I missed the Street Fighter Mortal Kombat stuff. That was more arcade for me. 'Cause we did not have, that was Sega. - It was all Siga, right? So we didn't have a Sega. So if we were at an arcade, that would be there. But that, it was like too repetitive for me, where you're just, you've got the two buttons, you're matching and shopping. - And you're giving me the combos and shit. - Yeah. - And we're living in a time where Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat films are all coming out again. That is tight, that nostalgic shit. It's targeted at people in their 40s like me. Makes me feel insane. I'm so fucking excited. - Getty like a child again. - If you think we are slightly passionate about games, Rahul Kohli is a whole different level, and he is now starring in this giant PlayStation game, very nice to have him on the couch. Here is our conversation with Rahul Kohli. - Welcome. - Hey. - How you doing? - A very boring question that we are as kids, people to start with. Just sort of introduce yourself, and what it is that you do as you define it. - My name's Rahul Kohli, and I'm an actor. Not super well. I mean, if it depends what you watch, if you're like horror, you've probably seen something I'm in. - Oh, horror people, though. - Horror people. - Yeah, possibly. - I met you through my New Zealand Free and Rose Mugawa, 'cause you were both on the same show, eyes on me. - Yeah. - And so I met you through her, and I just thought you were fucking delight from the get-go. - I think you were staying in Vancouver, right? - I was. - Yeah, it was my first kind of on-set experience on a program, and it was kind of amazing to see all you guys do your thing. 'Cause I've never really been around TV like that before. - Did he mess anything up on set? Did he, like, knock something over? - I can't remember if I was working when you were there. I know that, so Rose, she was gonna have a go at me first. So Rose has, I think there's been a few times where this has happened, especially with me. I think me and Rose were very, like, brother and sister. And we would, like, say we were all meeting up for a cast thing or whatever, Rose might say, oh, by the way, I got a friend in town, they're gonna join us and you'd be like, and we don't know him. And so that Rose was like that. She was very much, like, bringing people around. And there was a point where she hit me up and she said, my buddy, Dave's in town, but I'm at work and we're on location. Can he come hang out at yours? Do you remember? - Yeah, I did. - And I was like, "I'm scared of you work." - Oh no, this is what he did, is? - You made a dark of artigling. - You love him. - You know, can you babysit me? - I was like, I'm sure if we had that much, I had that much context about the documentaries. I remember you came round and you were awesome. And I was like, okay, well, my bad, but obviously, you know, it's just like, - No, it's a very funny way. It's a very funny thing for a colleague and a sort of force they're framed on you for the day. It's like they're in town babysitting this guy, Dave. - This could go terribly. - Look out for him. Yeah, completely. It's like, you've got the shit to do. Horrible. - But it was awesome. - But it went well. - Yeah, yeah. Well, 'cause I was obsessed with the things you've made. - It was nice we had that sort of in common. - That's, you know, your fandom of your own stuff. (laughing) We were both big fans of that. - Yeah. - Came out wrong. (laughing) But my point is the day went well. - Absolutely. - The day went well. And I know we have you in here to talk about gaming specifically, but I remember back then, you did have a lot of gaming paraphernalia. - Do it, yeah, yeah. - I admired some of your figurine collection 'cause I also am. - Collector. - You dive into that a little bit. But before we get to that, I'm just curious, you came, and we can tell from Rex and you came from London to LA? - Yes. - Yeah. - I'm just curious what that transition was like 'cause I came from New Zealand, which is much smaller. - Yeah. - Wellington? - I came from Auckland. - Auckland, okay. - Big city, but compared to London much smaller. - Sure. - But you came from like big British city to big American city. - Yeah. - I'm curious like what that transition felt like for you. - So when I first got here, I was in a very, I don't know how to describe this, Drake mode. (laughing) I was feeling myself. - Canadian. - Canadian. (laughing) - Cody. No, I was like 27-28. - Uh-huh. - I'd never sort of had money. My acting gigs prior to IZombie was like background roles. Maybe a line in a soap opera once, and that was it. And then I went from that to IZombie. So I was on a bit of a tear. I could find, I couldn't have to pre-drink. We used to like buy a two litre bottle of cider and pre-drink it, that'd be us done. And try to keep that buzz. Now, you know, we had disposable income. So the first place I lived was next to the pantagias on Hollywood Boulevard. - Amazing. - So I did LA in the most disgusting in your face. And I was fine with that. Like it fit me for the time. I was constantly partying and. - You lent into all of LA's LA things. - 100%. Yeah, you know, you could see the Hollywood side. I could see the stars, you know, the walk fame and all of that. And I was just around like Spider-Man and cosplay and stuff. - Was that impressive? Like were you grew up watching America on TV? And it was like, oh, this is what I saw in movies. - Absolutely. It was definitely like, I was definitely living my own. Stought like that kind of fantasy in my head. You know, like if you're a kid from the UK, you're only, you know, your perception of America is very much like World Times Square. And, you know, Hollywood Boulevard or the Hills. You know, you just have these few things that you pull from. So that felt like a very different experience. Once I kind of like was like, I don't even want to do that again. - You calm down slightly. - Calm down a bit. I actually disliked it. I once, once the kind of party stopped. I feel very empty.
- It has a lot of people and a lot of things to do, but it still feels very isolating. And I struggled with the lack of transportation. Like, you're stuck in your own space wherever you are. We had a car, you can't easily be at your friend's house. - Exactly. - We lives in a different area. - Almost everything that we were doing in London, you know, there's a 30 minute radius pretty much. - Yeah. - If you wanted to go out for drinks as well, like having that tube system and having public transport. And there was a pub culture and you go out and you do things. And I very much found out here, man, if you're 20 minute drive plus, it's done. We're not even remotely considering it. - Yeah, West Side's a different state. - Yeah, exactly. Yeah, easy to become super isolated when you're just trying to sit up your stability in a new place. - That feels unique to LA and not necessarily America. - Yeah, true. - You've been around America since I'm assuming. - Yeah, spend time in a lot of places now. Do you feel that that tends to still be the trend of America even outside of LA or? - So New York is my favorite. And I think that that's probably to do with where I'm from. I felt like any time I'm in New York, I just shot there for a few months. First time we just did the exorcist with Mike Flanagan. I had only ever spent at that point like a week or so in New York for like press or events. And I never felt more home. Like I knew the rules. I was just like get up and get out and walk and you're sorted for the day. - Yeah. - Yeah. And even the attitudes. I think that there's a personality, compatibility. Like on Ozombie, the people I would say I was the closest to out the gate was Rose. And I think that Kiwi Brit kind of camaraderie and such. - Totally humorous stuff. - Yeah, like that perfectly straight away. And the other person was actually Malcolm. I had less kind of growing pains with him in terms of like humor and not understanding me and he was in New Yorker. And especially when we went out and how we liked to dance and talk shit, it was kind of in the same, getting them a bit aggressive, but you're not. You're just, you know, that New Yorker. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so I'm showing. - Yeah. So those two were like my instant clicks, cultural wise. And I felt that with New York too. But then I've been to other places where I think Europeans don't realize and probably Brits don't realize like it, you are in a different country. It's states are different countries. They really are. - Yeah. - It might not look it at first. You might just keep seeing the same sort of like - Yeah, it really starts taking Starbucks, yeah. - Yeah, but it's so different. That's the main thing that I'm keeping reminded of is how different every state is. - It really is. - It's a mad. - I mean, even like politically, you've got to a place that is red versus blue. Like, is it totally different? - Yeah, different country. - I try not to bring any kind of like bias or things I've heard about it, you know, 'cause filming's filming, I don't get to pick where I go. Like I've shot in Alabama. And that was rough. And it wasn't because I went in with any kind of like notion of this might be a bit different for me. I felt it immediately. The first time I went to my cigarette set, gas station. And I was like, oh, this does not feel good. - Oh, like a race thing, right there in your face. - That felt like straight away. Albuquerque was kind of similar too. I felt this like shift and I was like, ah. But then I, you know, you got a Seattle portland and shot in Atlanta as well. - Completely fine. - Completely fine. - Completely chill. So it's, it's, I don't think I'd run back to Alabama anytime soon. But I don't have a choice, you know, if you film, you film. - It's amazing that still exists. I mean, that's one thing with the show that I'm walking around America as a white guy. I don't feel any of that. - Sure. - You know, as you're having such a vastly different experience to this country than I am. - I think it's accelerated too. I've watched the shift. There was a big shift in Canada as well, a racial shift. One of the things, so when I, when I first got here and we started doing eyes on B, it was 2013, 2014. We're still in the Obama administration. I don't think the culture wars had had, was anywhere close to what it was like now in this whole anti-woke campaign and DE, all of this stuff, I think it started to culminate, it started to really accelerate around 2016, 2017. I think you can probably put a pin in when the last Jedi came out. A lot of it to do. And they'd say, - I mean, the question of this course, there were bots, there was a war that was being manufactured. Which sounds mad when you're talking about that with no context. - I know, right? - But yeah, that film was that had just generated so much chaos. - It started something. Couple that we'd gamigate as well. We were destined for some sort of disaster. But when I got here, there was obviously racial tensions. There was always me walking around. There was always some, but it definitely felt the, especially like in Vancouver, for instance, that's where I spent eight months of the year. So anything that happened in America was, I was barely here. But Vancouver was interesting. I felt like, I felt welcome. I remember a lot of positive attention being in restaurants or bars. People just interactions were always positive. And then after COVID, I went back and it felt very hostile towards South Asians. And there's been this huge backlash against Indian immigrants. Student visas, all of this type of stuff. - Same thing in New Zealand. - Right. - And Australia as well is going that way. And so I've always fell into this category where because of how I present people will sometimes assume I'm Muslim or I'll get some form of Islamophobia, thrown my way, whatever. That's been since 9/11. Like, it's just been the way it's been. It's nothing. But I'd say in the last six years, racism towards South Asians has just increased and has completely changed how I feel about like, I'm about to go to Canada next week. And I know that in Nova Scotia, there's been huge flare-ups about Indians being there and accusing them of shitting on their beaches. - Yes, so instead of just enjoying a new job that's coming up, you're thinking, what is this gonna feel like? What's this gonna be like? - Yeah. - Yeah. - And I don't feel it too much in LA. I don't feel it. I definitely felt in Vancouver, I definitely felt it in Nova Scotia when I was last there. That definitely, my presence seems to annoy people. - It's fucking mad to think that it's gotten worse since you got here. Like, it seems obvious now you're saying it, but it's still like, it sucks. - It's the permission that's been given from the top to that, like, people were embarrassed probably to feel like that when we had Obama and they knew that wasn't culturally accepted. (upbeat music) Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from article. Now, when I first moved to Los Angeles and, well, I'm going accidentally Marundia and moved into my first apartment, I filled it up with just a whole lot of crap. You know, I just needed to, like, get by. Since then, I've been trying to make my home much more stylish and long-lasting with quality items that are still affordable. And that's where article comes in. It makes it effortless to create a stylish, long-lasting home at an unbeatable price. 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I think in a lot of ways right now, everything has been accelerated, homophobia, transphobia, Islamophobia, anti-Semitism. We are all, I think, together pushing towards intolerance, like a place of intolerance. And that's just, I think it's being accelerated by social media and it gets attention. Yeah, and it gets attention and an administration doesn't help. And so I know we're headed there, but on a personal note, I have never felt more racism thrown my way than I have in the last, I'd say two years. Yeah, fucking hell. It's like open season on Indians. And when I see the comments, I see that it's really normalized. It's normalized in a really strange way. So if someone uses an F-slur or the R-slur or they're using the N word on someone's post, if you go on that profile and you look at it, it's usually no name or numbers, you know, it's generating that nonsense. Go and watch an Indian person doing something, plain tennis. I don't know, whatever they've posted, and look at the comments, regular profiles with people whose jobs are listed, making racial stereotypes about Indian South Asians, and I've never seen that before. And I was like, wow, the craziest one about this is that it's socially acceptable to accuse me, or you know, when my game came out, I was saying to my partner, I was there for the height of 9/11 and Islamophobia and traveling. We were pulled out of a group, and whenever we tried to go to the airports, we were interviewed in private screening rooms. I've experienced all of that. I've never received so much racism as I have in the last four weeks. - From being the star of a huge video game. - The amount of stuff everywhere. - And it's so normal. It's not bots. - It's people. - I know who I've been-- - You don't kind of profile and you see them with their kids. - It's just like dude with his whole last business address on the hairdresser, and I'm like, what is going on? - It's combining acting and games. It's almost like, 'cause gaming can be so septic and toxic, and obviously you see there's an amazing side of gaming, but it has a seething underbelly, and that's what you're seeing now, right? - I live in Breedos, embedded in the culture. I was playing from three, four years old. It's all my parents' remember. It's just how obsessed I was with that. The first job I wanted, wanted to go into development. I worked in the video game shop, selling game, being part of the community. It's a really strange one with Saras, 'cause you make something that you're proud of, but I-- - And just for people that don't know about this game or that, and can you just explain how you fit into this world and what the game is? - Oh, sure. - Like what type of game it is, and there's no clue. - So Saras is a game that came out beginning of May, and it's a third person action sci-fi shooter where you play as Arjun Devaraj, which is played by myself. And it's a type of game that has its roots in more of an like, they call it bullet hell, but if you see it's akin to like an arcade, shoot a-- - Chaos, action, action. - Yeah, you are the central character. You're on the box. You're on the poster. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did. - Which is when I texted you being like, "Oh, there you are, friend and center." - Yeah, I did the motion capture for it. I did the performance capture, which is the face dots with the camera. - Which is like your dream to be in this like, front and center giant title, right? Kid who worked in a gaming store. I know you've been involved in games in all a variety of ways, but it doesn't get more involved in like this. - It's the real. - It definitely feels weird to be 40 and feel like you, like, "Oh, that's it." - Yeah, yeah, now done this now. - That's it, that ceiling's done like, but I always thought one day you'd get to that and we'll finally get there and then, it's everything you wanted. I mean, and even like the little stuff like, okay, you might get all that, but then like critics might hate it and you might end up with a three out of 10. - It wasn't, no, this stuff-- - This is not far from really, really, really, really well. - So it ticked everything. - Yeah, so you've got that on one side, you're releasing you're really proud of, it's sort of critically a claim game. At the same time, you've got a whole lot of gamers giving you, we're just being racist, yes. Which is, did you know it would be, and I wasn't intending to talk about this, but like, were you surprised at that? Like were you prepared for that knowing what you know about people? - No, no, no. - I remember the first Zoom where they offered me the role. - And I didn't have context, right? So I knew how smart the studio who made it. I was a big fan of their work. I don't know who they wanted to have a Zoom with me. No context, didn't know it was a lead role, didn't know what it was gonna entail. And I've had those where like, you sound like you're being set up for a big meeting, and then it's like, and we'd like you to play this coffee mug, and it's four lines, could you do it? And you were like, why'd you do that to Zoom on? And then-- - It's kind of in an email, why are we having a freaking meeting over it? - So I had the meeting with them and all the pleasantries were out the way, they were about to play me a pitch, like a slide show on their screen share, and I stopped them and said, I'd want you to know before you play this, I'm in, it's a yes. That's off your reputation. I have no idea what this is gonna be, and then they hit play, and then it was the lead, holy shit, face mocap, all of it, the works. You will be a PlayStation mascot, you know, exclusive. Is that normal now, that an actor is portraying, 'cause that wasn't counter-strike as a kid playing that, was not like, you're a specific actor. - It's been done, I would say it's not the norm, they'll have high profile actors come in, and end up doing a voice, I mean, Gary Olman's done video game voices and stuff like that, but full mocap is much rarer, isn't it, with like that introducing a person. I feel like the other big thing that jumps out to me, was what meds and death stranding, right? - Yeah. - That was like the big example. - Yeah. - Hideo will combine voice and looks, and yeah, he's sort of scanning any reaction. He's got that joke around him, right? Like any actor and down, you're scanning. - You're getting scammed. - He's got them in as fucking data, but. - Absolutely, yeah. - Yeah, I asked that just 'cause it's a big deal, that they were like, you know what it is? - And especially the thing with the video game stuff is that like, like if you look at a Kratos, you know, from God of War, if you look at a Nathan Drake from Uncharted, like Nathan doesn't have Nolan North's likeness. There's baggage that comes with an actor that you recognize of TV or a film. Oh, it's them. In film and TV, where we use that muscle a lot, where we see a recognized face, but accept, we put that aside and accept. And I think in gaming, you don't, you haven't had to do that. So it does stand out when you're like, and it's happened, that's Kevin Spacey. Well, but that also then changes hate that's coming towards you because it's not of this character you're voicing. It's you on there. - Yeah, to be fair, once I knew what they were doing, I knew the back of my head. Well, I'm sure this is going to go smoothly, you know. I know I'm not an idiot. I'm part of the culture. I knew what was going to happen. I knew even at just a base level, like one or two things were going to happen, right? And it's most kind of like normal and chill. A brown dude on the front cover, never really happened before in AAA games. I'm probably going to get Indian puns, usual trolling, you know, call center, Indian scammer stuff. And that was going to be fine. At worst, it would blow up and become its own like, thing like, you know, like it become a giant kind of like out of control, misinformation, hates anti-work campaign. I knew we were going to be on somewhere on that spectrum. And I don't think we ended up being on the worst case. And I think that's because I think it was popular enough. And I think that was probably it. It didn't occupy enough space. It wasn't Halo, whatever. It wasn't Halo. Yeah. Wasn't a sequel. There were a few triggers to trigger that group. Yeah, if they had seen you come in and fuck up their favorite franchise, which is traditionally bad kicks off normal. Yeah, this is a little mermaid backlash because they put a black woman instead. Yeah, so with us, because it was a new IP, because it was sci-fi, like they still, I mean
I saw way too many comments and I should have one when we were talking we're not talking like oh I saw 10 or 50 We're talking in the close to a thousand. I'd seen over the course of a year or two of just pure outright I'm not touching it fuck Indians. Mm-hmm. Had this game had been a sequel had it have been a Character on TV that was now played Ray swaps had there been any of that it would have been done We would have been a massive problem, but the marketing was an aggressive with this game for Internal reasons whatever you ain't being shoved down people. No, we run we really have done anything so and I think that that also Not to say that it they their response is justified But there are ways to fan the flames of that and I think over marketing. I made a conscious effort as well So this is an exclusive for this podcast finally. We've been waiting for years. I wouldn't discuss race Discourse with this game publicly. Okay. Yeah, so when we did when I did my little press days I had contacted Sony prior to that and said I Will not be answering any Questions about representation. Mm-hmm. And Alana taught me that my partner. She taught me this really interesting trick And she said so she was a as a woman in games She said the the thing that oh Makes her stand out as she sort of has been a trailblazer in her in her way A lot of people when they call her in for podcast interviews journalists They want to talk about that and that's completely fine. That's what you are that's you know It's it's out of curiosity. It could be celebration. It could it's always in good faith However, if Alana continues to do that. It seems like it's the only thing she wants to talk about and the narrative changes on it Yeah, she's pushing there. She's pushing. Oh, fuck woman in games again talk about something. It's all she's been asked She gets stuck in this like cycle and I'm so glad she gave me this because she said Every single person is going to ask you first question. What's it like to be a South Asian on the front cover of a game And all that's gonna happen is is that that's the class out bite That's the article head and all of a sudden I have 50 fucking articles that are only about me talking about my race When it has nothing to do with the game. Yeah, and a tiny part of the interview as well Yeah, and that's to be everywhere and then and usually the headlines aren't with your best interests They have they don't have your best interests at all. Yeah, and then you're meant to represent the entire race Yeah, which is probably now why you got into exactly So, so I had a no talk about rule because I was like when this game does come out The other thing that bad faith grifters do is Look through that find isolated quotes find something where I said it's about time We you know, we move away from the straight white mouth boom got it clipped Content and I got you and I got you for white erasure. Yeah, and then I'm and then I'm cooked So yeah, I did a very I did a very controlled. I never spoke about it There was and it felt my heartbreak. I watched an Indian dude who was so Excited on your side. He's like. Yeah, and wanted to do it And he was like I just have to ask you as a South Asian How does it feel to be the lead of this PlayStation game? And I went well It feels great to be the lead of a plant and I completely Just bloop clipped to that bit out and I watched him go Ah, he didn't give me that I wanted to talk about that thing that connects us So I'm doing it now with you guys because I don't care My watch is over the game's done. Yeah, fucking they've moved on to bond dance on thing The new one was like the first 15 minutes of bond game play came out the double A7 game Yeah, and they didn't like the way in which the woman in his earpiece is talking to him That's the new one. Fuck it's wild. Yeah, dude. You said this was the top of the mountain for you But yeah, you wanted to be the lead of a franchise or in a video game But then to have such a dark cloud be tied to it. I'm wrestling with it man We're so similar. I have such a similar reaction to I'm much more scaled than you But I get so I take everything very personally and I want to address it whether it's good or bad And I go around telling myself it's for good reasons, but a lot of the time it's just I'm fucking sensitive just shit And I want to be honest about it. Yeah, but it's not though. It's it's exhausting It's like it gets really like catering to everyone's comment online. It's a fucking insane way to live I do think it shows in your work and I'm assuming yours too though that you care enough about it that you're not just Disconnecting and walking away once it's out. Yeah, there must be a middle ground Yeah, of like not going insane, but also caring in some way. Yeah, there has to be but you're also like me as well Like you're you're like all of us that you're online like you're connected to that world And it's just part of your life that you've always been Yeah, there is a middle ground to it where that's probably a cambia superpower To care to be passionate to be sensitive. I think is isn't it's not a bad thing but anything in excess is obviously not good And I think the internet in magnifies all of it. Yeah, it just accelerates getting worse the internet is getting shit Yeah, it's time goes on social media has made it more charged and it's breaking and it's harder to use in Google sucks Yeah, it's all getting horrible. It's just I mean yeah The the new I think I want to say like 12 months Changed that we've had to now like sort of reprogram ourselves is immediately seeing something And then having to then pay triple attention to make sure it wasn't just AI and jet not even real and yeah Poorly written headline. Yeah, there's that now is this real was this street fight real and then you look back And you're like no, they got eight fingers. Yeah, why someone made that or like look at this cat eat a burger Yeah, even kept or even kept videos are all bullshit. Yeah, and you're like And it's not because I'm I'm media illiterate or like you I'm so easily duped I'm like a you know A 90 year old pensioner who thinks you know don't can't discern that from the inside shit. My problem is is that I keep getting tricked by AI because I don't know why someone made it. Yeah Yeah, doesn't make sense. Why don't I make this The motivation is not obvious. Yeah, if you see Trump punching Obama Yeah, I get why someone made that right I get why that was put through whatever I don't get why the cat eating a burger in a funny way you did to happen braze a really good point It's love. Yeah, completely the motivation is what makes it as equally confusing as the actual AI generated whatever Yeah, I get the sex ones I get the like the cat fishing it was always going to happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah We've been doing that as The I guess people only humans yeah, they're going to always you know catfish. Yeah, I don't know what is exhausting someone's bedroom And and and how they've moved their furniture and assemble is complete bullshit AI and you're like suddenly you've been watching this Computing power for this yeah building data centers and like small towns for this. Yeah, it's like fucking up your friends water Yeah, I don't want to do like it's such an abrupt change, but like what are you particularly excited about at the moment like I feel your back with fan again shooting some cool shit Yeah, where is the stuff you're particularly excited about are you just still in a a day he's from this gaming stuff I'm off to go and shoot the second series of a show I did for Amazon We will I as and we shot the first series in the Nova Scotia summer I slated it kind of like island I kind of in welcoming it it in my head. I know I have a job to do Um, but to me it's gonna be a real nice way to like get away from everything nice You mentioned just before visas. Yeah, I've literally just got robbed to fill in a form saying he'll um work with me for another three years For my oh one you're oh winning it as well. I oh one it yeah. How is that going for you? I'm about to send it in so hey my money to my lawyer I have a heartbreaking news for you So I'll say this weirdly because the oh one's Uh, and your audience knows what no one is right. It's for artists I ramp around about it enough. Yeah, you talk a lot about it blah, blah, blah. It's the most braggie visa because it's a alien alien of your own area of the world with all the letters that famous people write for him about how great his character is and how valuable he is to our society all of that I wish they changed the name of it dude That's right because I've had the amount of TSA agents who I who already might have a bee in their bonnet when they see I've I've had it said to me in a shitty way and what's your extraordinary ability and it's not my words It's like But weirdly Every single time my renewals happened. It happened during the Trump administration Right, so I always have this heightened like oh it's done. It's cut. I'm done. There's always I'm never going to get it renewed It didn't you know it didn't need renewing during Biden. It just am I weird timing. Yeah, it keeps happening during Trump in three years fine easy It's I'd say it's like it's never been easier So that's fine, but one thing he did change which I didn't find out until Two three weeks before I had to do it remember with um the way the oh one works
You could, you need to go to the embassy, process it outside of America. Yes. So, a lot of us in American, LA actors in particular, where we went to Vancouver, not allowed them. Well, country of origin only. You have to go back to New Zealand. That's right. Yeah. Did you know that? Yeah. Okay. Recently got that knowledge. It's a massive pain in the butt. It's a huge trip. It's a big difference going to Canada to go into New Zealand and cost and resources. And they're also, I believe, doing that to people applying for a green card now. Yes. I saw that too. Yeah. You used to be like, you could, if I was, I don't know, one, and I wanted to play for a green card, I could do it all within the US. Keep working. Keep having my life. Now, you've got to fuck off back to New Zealand. You have to stay on ice in your own country. Yeah. It's so annoying. All this shit. Hold on. So, this doesn't make sense. So, say I have a '01 visa for three years and next year, I still have like two more years left. Next year, I play for the green card. I have to leave. You've got to go. Even though I have a '01. Yeah. The great for the green card to be processed and for that to be, you've got to be out of the country. Even if you look, I've been to be careful because I often talk some bullshit. And I do occasionally get things wrong as I'll really headline. Yeah. I'm pretty confident as change enough where people are pretty up and arms about how disruptive it is. Yeah. Because you used to be able to just stay within the country and you would process it and you maybe have to go back to, out of the country to get it approved and come back in. We had a really funny thing happen with Alana, who's Australian, so she had, she was on the '01 train. Uh-huh. I'm decided. So, I brought an '01 conversation out. We're also sorry. We're just going to bitch about America. Um, no, this wasn't their fault. So, it's in the fall of the house of Usher and, um, a show I had done the pilot for was, was picked up. And, uh, one of the biggest reasons I wanted to do that show was it shot in LA, which you never hear. Yeah. That is the holy grail. Yeah. I said, Saros was the apex. It's nice. It's just doing any show in LA and home for a few months would be like, oh my god. So, so Alana knew that, okay, he's out in Vancouver during the fall of the house of Usher, uh, for, I think at that point, I was like, I think they had to be quick with me. So, they blocked shot me, which is why I'm always in the loft. So, I was like to, yeah, pretty much they had to release me, um, so I was only there for a couple of months. And then I'd come back to LA and we would start filming this series for six, seven, eight months. Alana was like, hold, wait, hold on, I don't have to travel up to see you or, or anything. I'll do my green card now. So she applies. They take her passport. Now she's grounded. Right? Yeah. And then the showrunners call me about a week later and they're like, hey, uh, interesting news. We're shooting in Vancouver for this new show. And, uh, that's it. And you're contractually obligated, you're obliged. So they took the LA thing away that had just disappeared. And she didn't have a passport now, can't go anywhere. And then we had to reshoot the half of the fall of the House of Usher because we changed cast members, which people can Google. Um, so I ended up being out for a year when I didn't have to be, uh-huh. And we had a stalker. Oh, great. It happened. And I had to fly home between every, like, basically anytime I wasn't on camera, I went home to protect the house and be there. That's how we ended up with Banjo. So a good thing came out of it. We got Banjo because we were like, we need, we need, you know, you know, we have stalkers and stuff like that. And that's what you named your gun. Yeah, that's my, uh, that's my, uh, I obviously know whatever. No, uh, we, we, uh, adopted a, uh, a German Shepherd Husky. She, yeah, she couldn't leave. She stuck there. She stuck. I couldn't be there. Stuck with a stalker. So that whole green card thing, none of it was America's fault. Oh, no, this was America's fault. Rob. Are you ready for this? I'm sorry. So, so it works out because I said I'd be gone for a year, right? You need six months. So it worked out that for the last month or so of filming, she'd have a green card and could come visit me instead. So she gets the green card in it arrives and they put mail on her green card. Just a misprint. You got to file again? Yeah. Cause it doesn't match the passport. Oh, that's so frustrating. And it was it. It's not that a Lana's cis woman, right? Yeah. Like pronouns. Oh, she, her. Mm-hmm. It was just a misprint. Daddy. It said mail. And she had to surrender it, took about two months to reprocess. Oh, that's so annoying. So she cleared, she cleared the whole shoot. That was our green card with a Lana. So that's why I've put mine off here. I'm like, you're completely, you know, I haven't thought about when I'm going to do that. I think maybe with the green card, it's the case of when you actually want it in your hands, you've got to leave and go back to your country of origin like with the O1. So well, that's been processed, you can stay, but if you want it, you've got to go back to your country of origin. For us, like, line it, if there's a world in which you know you're working abroad, just do it then. Just do it then. Because there's no point. Like, I should have thought about that now, because I know I'm going to be in Nova Scotia for pretty much all of it. I could have just submitted Seren and left time it a bit better. Yeah. It's so scary Seren, rendering stuff, though, like seeing that passport away. It's a horrible feeling. It really is. As we wrap this up, I'm curious. What Americans, where they think you're from with your accent, are they confused by you? I get Australia, I get South Africa, people, you've got the race element, and then you have to deal with. Do people go like your British? It's a 50/50 roulette of British or Australian. So whatever my voice is though, in American ears. Yeah, okay. It depends what mood I'm in. It changes. Yeah. There's a really, I have a really cocky. If I thought I was particularly handsome that day, or I got a compliment in my British, I get really like cockney, and I don't think it does become bottler water. That's if I'm feeling myself. So I think that's when I'm having a British day, and I think when I'm more vulnerable and I'm speaking a little bit better. Do I more for all with my personality, or is it always just a annoying voice? Careful. You're absolutely the same. You're the same. Do Kiwi's changed tone? The whole isn't the whole Kiwi thing that you, like, the whole is just flat, so it's pretty flat. Yeah. You're American accent. That was pretty ridiculous. Yeah, I don't do a good American accent. You do a much better American accent than me. I'm not going to do it here, and now embarrass myself. You've got an American accent down pretty well. I believe it. I'm very envious of Aussie actors, Kiwi actors. You're getting there better at it, there. I'm, yeah. Rose does a great American accent. She does. I got to show her some love here, 'cause, like, I was very isolated, like, actor who thought everything needed to be method. Mm-hmm. I was a bit exhausting when I started. She, for the record, she never said that about you. No, I mean, no. She's, I know we have such love for each other. It's a, but. But you're a bit in sufferable back on those eyes on me. You became a zombie. How does one get method for eyes off you? Dude, I went to a real walk, looked at real cadavers, learned to do others' quality, I did some stupid. When I started doing brains, 'cause when you eat a brain, you adopt the personality. I would go method on just the personality, and Rose would be like, dude, it's just a CW dickhead. Like, I snuck into an N.A. meeting when I played a heroin addict. It's incredible. You know what it was? Insecurity. Learning that you can do it without that, but you're doing it because you want to be Robert Tineiro. Don't be Robert Tineiro. Be roll coley. Yeah. And those was the biggest leader of, dude. Just act. Just act. And that, 'cause I was green, and I'm so glad I got him a rose, because Rose was the most extreme version where she's doing Kiwi, like a half a second before the camera's role. And boom. Floorless American. Yeah, yeah. That's the cow scene to do that. It's crazy. You're watching someone do that while you're like, I must stay in it all day. I'm Russian. But it's so funny that the thing you were going method on was a show where a big trope in there, a big part of the show is like you're a different, vastly different character. Often. Yeah. It's not a whole season. You're a cop. It's like, no, when you read a different brain, you're someone different. That's so stressful. Honestly, it's, it's, it's literally my next episode. Fuck. I think when I'm scared, yeah, I'd resort to that. Which is all I knew. I knew that like I could commit and research. That was my superpower. Like you took a passion and sense I could really affect like if I kept doing a physicality for a few hours, it could lock in for months. Yeah. I'm really impressionable like that. And so when I didn't feel like I was smart enough to like understand a character from reading it from the script. And when I was at school, I realized, oh, wait, if I, if I put in maximum effort into this method, I get good results. And now, the only times I get like that is when I look at a role and I go, oh, I missed cast. Oh, I'm the worst actor on the midnight mass was the closest I got to being like that again. Where I stayed American all day. And I,
went to, I did it right along with the police and it came back. But it wasn't because I needed it. It was because I was terrifying and insecure. Yeah, and that's exactly it. And I think Rose was the biggest supporter of me of stop being insecure. You could do this without that. Yeah, cool. You didn't need to listen to the Soviet Union anthem all day just because you had Russian brain. The one thing I like about that whole method thing is you get to hang out with some other interesting people and that's the thing where it's good stories from it. Agreed, you don't have to do it. Oh, that's probably where you picked up your skill to be good at it. Was you shape shifted in all these different ways and now you can do it a little more naturally. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, you train that muscles. You don't have to go back to all of those basics. I'm very glad that Rose was the one that came you down from your method chaos. Yeah, she did good to know. I was looking back at it. It was a privilege and one of the best acting lessons I ever got was being paired up with Rose Mugova. I learned how to be a lead. I learned what it took. And I didn't realize it at the time and I didn't appreciate it as much 'cause I was in my Drake era. But when you started with a Drake comparison I've always been back. I've always been back. So what era are you in now if you had to pick? I don't know what era am I in. I'm in my, that's hard. That stumps me. Yeah, that's hard. 'Cause you know what my problem is. All the names running through my head I'm like, shouldn't say that. I think they've caught a case. Dave said that they just recently said something they shouldn't have. You're in your fucking era. I mean, my era. Yeah, that's what you're in. Yeah, thanks for coming in. Thanks for having me. You're great. No, you're great. Loved him so much. Yeah, that was one of my favorite conversations we've had in the era. Yeah, I feel like he got hit sort of 'cause he had already done promo for this game a while ago and had to kind of keep locked up on certain things, like talking about race. I think because he knew us, he could sort of just be like, okay, comfy, can talk. And super insightful into what that whole experience was like. Yeah, I mean, listening back to it again, it's just annoying how bad actors ruin things for no reason. Completely. And there's no reason. And actors, but as in bad people. Yeah, there's no reason for a reaction to be that to him. No, the internet has given people a deeply strange power where they can gang up. Even the way people crash scores on Rotten Tomatoes or something, if they don't like a certain actor. And it usually is over something as dumb as race. Yeah, I mean, and for something that should have been a celebration for him and for culturally that this was someone leading a video game. Completely, just fully soured is very unfortunate. Yeah, and just the fact he kind of knew it was coming as well, but it was a sort of shitty and then he thought it would be. And the game, I was just scrolling through some reviews of the game. It's quite critically acclaimed. Cyrus is a triumph in every sense. Cyrus is excellent at builds on the foundations of the former one, a blistering rapid fire epic without peer. It's like the game critically is friggin incredible. Yeah, none of this was about gameplay. No, it's just an insane thing to face. And also just the fact that he talked about how it spiraled out more for him in the last couple of years and got an increasingly shitty. It's just so deeply annoying. This is awesome. It's also that was such a surreal thing. I went to visit Rose on set because she was in IZombie. And I wanted to see how a TV show was made. And yes, she just offloaded me on him. So he's just having his normal day playing video games actually on that day and Rose turns out with me and is like, can you babysit David for the day? And he was lovely. He was such a good person to get into Canada with. And he's just always been awesome. And I thought when I saw his little face on that poster, I holy shit, this would be a perfect guest because this is just such a fascinating thing to talk about. Yeah. It doesn't make me laugh. The idea of your friends having to get babysitters for you when you go visit them. Oh, yeah, I couldn't go for my own. It's like someone in their 30s. It makes sense. Knowing you at 100% makes sense. David's here from out of town. I need to get a babysitter. Yes, she could have just left me at her place or let me like roam the streets. Yes. That wasn't, I actually hadn't really thought about how ridiculous it was until now. That's really fucked up. It's probably happened a couple times, do you? Yes, most times you go visit friend places. Also, something I thought was interesting listening back. He talked about how he was nervous to talk about race in the original run just because of how his quotes could get taken out of context. And that's such a problem, I think, for anyone speaking now about anything is that you can't often do it in good faith because, you know, including this episode, if there's some asshole listening to this episode, they could clip a couple of words and that becomes a headline on 100 aggregated websites reporting on something. And that's still the hate even more. Completely. And context is everything. And that's such a shitty thing to have to think about when you're trying to have an opist and honest conversation, knowing that that whole context necessarily won't spread, but some tiny quote will be clipped. I mean, there are a whole, there's a whole industry about just getting clips for views on people's accounts, you know? Yeah. And finally, briefly him touching on the joys of AI. Oh, well, both Halo. We touched it. We forgot Halo. Halo was a pretty transformative game. I feel like there was another pinnacle when that came out. Years of my life playing that game. And when we were talking about it at the beginning of the EP, completely forgot about it. Yeah. Yeah. So many games that were played. And just him talking about AI briefly about how it is just getting increasingly difficult to know what is real and what's not. I think AI video has now reached a point where it is not easy to see, even if you know the tells. And we're living in a really insane time where you don't even know if the information you're hearing is said by that person or is just a simple show. I can assure you that every the viewer watching this video or listening on our official channels, it is the real thing. He said this. Yeah. Is it somebody I don't know. If you have any feedback about video games, anything that Rahul had to talk about, we have
[email protected]. Always have to hear from you. Tell us what games changed your life to sort of curious to know your age and what the game was that completely, you know, we've got, we've got listeners who are 80. What was the thing that changed your life? We've got listeners who are like kids, tell us what, listening to their parents. Are we in that many kid listeners David? We've got a few. I met a kid in New Zealand with their mum who was like, "Yeah, I listen." And I felt a bit nervous because their mum was there and I'm thinking, "Should you be listening?" Yeah. They're gonna love next week's episode on drugs. Oh God. Listen to your parents' kids. But just email us what was the game that changed your life? Super curious about that. A lot of feedback to catch up on 'cause I've been in New Zealand and so have been missing out on some of the feedback to recent episodes. A lot of people from New York wrote in about New York trash saying, "New York, beautiful, we deal without trash." Look at all the people we've got here. We do it in a wonderful way. As someone from New Zealand, I say that some bullshit, sturdy, sorted out. I guess I will concede to the fact that maybe it could be much worse. Yeah, that's the way it's the way it's the way. And that maybe they are doing a great job and the version of it that exists is the best version of what it could be. But I have higher notes for New York first. I feel like they could do better. And this is not a criticism. I can't be critical. And New York, I'm about to be there. I'm gonna be there in a week and a half. So chicken on the rubbish situation. Tell me if they've started to reinstate that plastic bins. It's also so hard 'cause New York's so big. I'm sure you can go to different pockets where it doesn't feel that way. I stick by my assertion that New York is disgusting and dirty. You like to double down? I like to double down. A lot of people also wrote in about Justin Timblek. I talked about how his dance moves were lagging a little bit. A lot of people pointed out he is battling a Lyme disease diagnosis. He has said publicly that he has massive amounts of nerve pain and crazy fatigue. All this, therefore, makes you feel incredibly guilty about shitting on Justin Timblek's dancing ability on his recent tour. A lot of feedback to one of our Wisconsin episodes, suboclubs, where I was shocked. Shook that children were allowed to drink at bars. As a New Zealander, I found this abhorrent, awful. I thought this is an example of how America has lost the plot in many states. A lot of people wrote in from New Zealander telling me that it's also the case in New Zealander, which was perfect feedback. Thank you for your running in. Duck wrote in. Duck is a great name. You've probably had a flood of these emails already, but New Zealander allows parents and guardians to supply alcohol to minus. When I was little, still in primary school, but nearing intermediate, eight years old, my dad would pour a beer and pour me a little shocked, sized beer mug to match. I was so stoked to share a drink with my dad. I didn't actually drink much of it at all, so I'd have maybe one sip and be thrills. I'd also try different types of wine or beer. A tasting sip at a pub or restaurant when my parents. were around and interested. They considered it no big deal for me to taste it, much like trying a bite of that food. Cheers, duck. So look, New Zealand and America, we have more in common than David knows. Than David knows. And it also explains why sometimes at restaurants in New Zealand, when I was a kid, I would also get given alcohol by my parents. I just thought they would be incredibly naughty. It's legal. - Wait, so you partook in this? - My parents would sometimes slip me a little dribble of a drink when we were out. I thought it was them just being a bit cheeky and naughty. Didn't know it was completely legal and okay, at the time. - Did your parents drink a lot? - No, no, my parents would have like a wine at dinner or a beer at every dinner. - Not every dinner. - Every. - Okay. - What are you doing? - I'm so scared. - I'm so scared. - I see what you're getting at. - I don't know. - Did your mother drinking a lot while you were pregnant? - No, this is all coming together. - My parents didn't drink at all. - Really? - So that was why I was asking. - Yeah, no, my parents did. Alcohol wasn't a big deal. And they would give me a little reciprocationally. I think just with the idea, when I was a kid, this would destigmatize the whole thing. And it did. So I feel like when I was older and a lot of kids at my school were out getting crazy, my attitude was sort of-- - I could do that. - So I was four. It was one. - Yeah. It wasn't a big deal. Like we had an aunt and uncle that would drink wine all the time. But yeah, my parents-- - All the time, nonstop. - Often. But my parents didn't drink like almost ever. I don't remember being a kid seen. - Yeah. - But you didn't have a beer. My mom had wine. Which I feel is I wonder how common or rare that is here. - Although church, you have wine, which-- - But it's just juice. - Sure, but you're not explaining that to kids when you're going up to have wine at mass. It was a weird-- - No. - I was talking to my Catholic friend, Dan, when I was in New Zealand. And he pointed out the fact that, 'cause I would have communion in my Baptist church. And it was just, you know, a bit of juice. But in the Catholic belief system, according to my friend, Dan, you actually believe that it transforms into the body of Christ physically. Inside you, once it is like gone down your throat. - Well, here's the body and the blood. - Yeah, I thought it was symbolic. But apparently in some types of Catholicism, the belief is that it actually changes. Might just be my friend, Dan. But that was-- - I was shocked. - I was like, what, you've got bits of human flesh inside you and blood at one point from the bread and the wine? Is that, yeah? - That smell and taste of communion wine. I still remember very distinctly-- - I loved it. - I loved-- - I loved it. - You loved it, too. - Oh, didn't have wafers. - But the wine-- - The little bits. - Now, we had a little bits of bread that was like-- - The bread was really good, too, and like certain holidays, they'd bust the bread out. - What else did it just be? I'd be so fucking bored sitting in there. It was something different for me. It was, oh, we get to have a little drink? - I love the wafers, though. - I don't-- - What was it? - You can wait at wafers? - No, they were, I've never had a Catholic wafer. - I don't know if I want to admit this. - Admitted. - You can get communion wafers on Amazon. (laughing) - Wait, you've got-- - I've done it once. - And I realized you could order communion wafers and I love the taste of it. I mean, they're little cracker things, but pretty flavorless, too, but it would again with just like the nostalgia of communion wafers. - I love the idea of you being watching a sports match in your garage or something with a voice in your friend's and wacky, Doritos, and you've got your little dry wafers of Amazon. - I have any questions or Catholics out there listening to it. I don't think they hold any weight until they are blessed anyways. So, at that point, it's just a snack. (laughing) - I fucking love the justification so much. At this point, it's just a snack. Oh my God, that's really good. A lot of feedback about drinking, actually, with kids. Camilla Rodin, I'm Danish/Scottish. When I was two years old, I believed all fizzy drinks were called beer, so I would loudly declare at many opportunities of thirst that I want beer. Much to my nice middle class mums horror, but it did allow us to jump the queue in a few instances when I started my chat. I apparently loved beer and did develop a habit as a toddler, which was picking up empties to take the last swig or share it with the family dog. That's wild. I'm Danish drinking culture is fairly relaxed, and as much as me drinking beer too, obviously, wasn't encouraged, was never a big deal, more a funny story. Tamsen loved the OC Rachel Bilson episode. Your recent episode with Rachel Bilson brought back such core childhood memories for me. I'm from South Africa and attended an all girls boarding school. We were completely obsessed with the OC, so it was a truly global phenomenon. Every week, one of the day scholars would tape the latest episode of the OC on the VHS and bring it into school, and all of us borders would gather together in the evenings and watch it in our common room. Abort a sense of home and community that we would otherwise not have had. All the soundtracks would be played on repeat at all the girls, CD players throughout the dormitories. Now I'm feeling quite ancient, but thanks for the blast from the past. A lot of OC fans seem to enjoy that EP. A lot of people enjoyed the joking nature between you and Bilson, I also enjoyed it, and I think I might start watching the show. - Me, you should. - I hear it's quite good. Lauren Rodin, about life spring cult. I love your show. I did several life spring courses and workshops in the mid 80s. Listening to your episode on life spring had lots of details coming back to me. I've done so many workshops over my life, starting at 18 years old with EST, which my mum got me into. I've so many stories to tell about these experiences. I can't estimate how much I spent on these, but at one point, I spent almost $75,000 on something that was promised to have a lot of value, but turned out to be just cult recruitment. Incidentally, and it goes quite dark here, trigger warning, et cetera. Incidentally, a friend of mine lost her life along with two other people in a sweat lodge at that organization. So many people emailing in with either spending a shit ton of money. Some people were emailing in saying they got a bit out of it, and then some people were saying incredibly dark stuff, like a friend went off the edge, or in this case, died, full on, specifically about Landmark, which is in New Zealand, it's in America. This is from Laura. My sister-in-law started taking Landmark classes. She was texting me about how amazing they were and how much she was learning. In April of 2023, she texted. I was doing the Landmark Forum in Seattle 13 hours a day. It was amazing. In October of 2023, she texted, I'm taking another class with Landmark, and I think I'm starting to understand this concept of creating new possibilities in our lives. I would like you to hold the following image of me when you think of me. Here is my mantra. Listeners, you can chant along to this if you like. I am at ease. I am at peace. I have lots of time and all as well. I am at ease. I am at peace. I am an excellent health. I am creating wealth. I am prosperous. And I am happy. I have a beautiful home and a beautiful marriage. Both more beautiful and anything I've ever imagined. I am loved. I have an abundance of dear friends and family. I am prosperous, and I am happy. I learned in my class this week that the fastest way to manifest new possibilities in our lives is to enlist others in those possibilities. This means to inspire others to be part of those possibilities. So I thank you for seeing me having and being these new possibilities around me. I know you love me, so I'm asking you to hold these new possibilities. There's something I'm already got it goes on. I'm going to stop reading. Anyway, persistent seeing her a big mantra and wanted to win this through as well on their mat. I just found the mantra really full on. - Was she married? - Or was that all? - Don't know, I hope so. - I think the manifestation. - I think the manifestation fitted her life a little bit. I couldn't use that manifestation though, because I am not married. - You can try it. - Maybe you will become married. - Maybe we will become married if I said enough. - I think that's. - Oh my God. - Manifesting, David. - I have a beautiful home and a beautiful marriage. Both more beautiful than anything I've ever imagined. Beautiful. - Rendon, Broden. Spout like Brendan, but with no B. I just want to know Rob's thoughts on his beloved Chicago Bears, potentially moving to Hammond in Deanna. - Well, yeah. Well, I'll see. Is it complex? Or are you holding back? - It's complex and it's weird and political and Chicago where I think they're trying to get the city to pay for some of it. And so the organization keeps threatening to move. They bought like a racetrack near where I grew up. And we're gonna move to Arlington Heights at one point. And now the threat.
is that they're gonna move to Indiana, the threat. I don't fully believe that the Chicago Bears will move to Indiana, that's my response to it. When it comes to sport, I tend to believe what you have to say, you know a lot more than I do. And I hope not. I mean, it would be, it would be devastating if the Chicago Bears moved out of Chicago. But that put in every aggregate, put in every headline, Benay wrote in, like Renee, but with a B, in regards to our live show episode recently, Holy Shit, Back Guy Rocks. She's referring to Merlin Tuttle. Got a lot of positive feedback from Merlin. Merlin Tuttle, it was amazing getting him on that show, he's, he'd just come back from a massive expedition, he's getting on in years now and just getting him there was pretty friggin incredible. And yeah, if you want to meet someone that loves bats, meet Merlin Tuttle, he's friggin incredible and he's got a documentary coming out soon. Finally, Sarah writes in about our Titanic panic episode number one, she's got a bullet point list. These Titanic super fans are very real, I went to college with one, he was more a friend of a friend, but I still follow him on Instagram because every year he celebrates Titanic Day by sharing a detailed, step-by-step timeline of the sinking on his Instagram stories. It's honestly quite interesting and informative, so I thank him for his service. Number two, you briefly talked about the phobia of deep water. There's a sort of related phobia called sub-mechanophobia, which is the specific fear of manmade objects that are either fully or partially submerged underwater. Think mechanical things, statues, that kind of thing. I personally don't have this, but watching videos about it does make me feel a bit eki. So the sub-mechanophobia, if you wonder why you're fearful about seeing and thinking about the underworld's sunken objects out there, that's what you might have. You and Rob, this is point three, discuss briefly the idea of seeing certain images of topics of the young age that get sort of ingrained in your psyche or really change your worldview. i.e. Kate, Winslet's Boob and Titanic, the movie Species, the Holocaust, etc. This list sounds quite to-range, but if you listen to that episode, it makes three things. It makes a little bit of fun for me. Those three things, this context, context is everything. Mine is seeing that famous image of the cross section of a slave ship that used to be an every textbook ever, known as the Brooks diagram for reference. Seeing that image for the first time completely blew my mind in the most shocked and horrified way, I just couldn't fathom how people could do that to other humans and how anyone could survive that journey. This somehow recently came up in a combo with my husband, and he had the same exact formative experience. So I assume this might be common one for students learning about slavery in the U.S. Did that come up in your timeline? Rob cross section of a slave ship? Yeah, I remember that. That was a run, yeah, that wasn't in the image. Yeah, holy shit, Katie starts by writing, my name is Katie, and I live in Bentonville, Arkansas. My great-grandparents, along with a pair of their friends, lived in Ireland and had tickets to board the Titanic, luckily for them, and for my family line, their friends fell ill prior to the day the ship was supposed to leave, and they all decided to stay by. It is also the plot to the first Final Destination movie, with a plane instead of the Titanic, where a group of friends go to go on a doomed flight, they don't go on. But then in that case, in the film Death Thames, stalks them, it appears in that particular story, Death has not stalked them because the lineage is writing to me at FlightlessBredTraderGmail.com. Pretty parting words, Rob. Presents trickling out gifts, right? Oh my God, okay. All right, just quickly, from New Zealand, I think I've given this to you before. Whitaker's Hoki-Poki Crunch, it's the best Whitaker's in my opinion. Thank you very much. Tim Thames. Tim Thames. One of the best biscuits from down under. This is a packet of the original Tim Thames. Love Tim Thames. Dunk it in a hot drink, and suck the drink up via the Tim Thames like a straw. That is a very famous thing we do down under. Delicious. Ah, okay. Because the center is chocolate. It will melt. Okay. The biscuit will keep the structure of the so-called straw. Fucking beautiful. You done that with the twizzler before? Uh, no, can you do that with the twizz like you can? You can suck your teeth. Holy shit. Same thing with Tim Thames. Okay. Suck your matcher up through that. This is special edition. Dark Tim Thames. It's like you're darker chocolate. Yum yum. Natalie will love these. At Hayden's birthday party, there was a Vales concert happening. I sent you two a days, twice. You did. You said, are you going to the Vales? It didn't respond. And I sent it again. And it was like, dude, are you going? Yeah. And I said, I have Hayden's big birthday party, Hayden, a friend of the show. You'll hear him droning on. At the beginning of this episode, for instance, I was a big birthday. I couldn't do both. I picked Hayden over the Vales, but the concert was happening a 10 minute walk away. I did something I've never done before. I walked into that venue. It was very close to Hayden's party. It was, it's comically close, comically close. Literally round the corner at a venue called Power Station, one of my favorite venues in Auckland, New Zealand. I did something I've never tried before, and I don't know if this will always work, but I'm keen to try it again. About halfway through the show, I turned up at the venue. I went up to where you get the tickets from or on the world call. I said, I don't want to see the Vales, but I want to get merged from my friend Rob. When I go into the venue, buy merch and then leave, security can watch me do this. She said, go for it. This is like my popcorn move out of movie theater. This is, that's where you learned it. I walked in there and I bought the merch. I admit I stayed for one song, I filmed a bit of it, I sent it to you. I left, said thank you to security, went back to Hayden's birthday. I got you. This T-shirt, look at this, beautiful Vales T-shirt from their latest to it. I also got you a long sleeve from the Vales, and I'm also going to hand to you. I got you their record of their latest release, Fred Jyle World. It's a fucking wonderful record. This is it on vinyl because I know you love vinyl. You love vinyl. That's very kind of you, David. I'd like to thank the staff of the power station. Also deep, be curious if I could go to a Beyonce show, say, we're at a Taylor Swift show. I'd say, hey, it's to go at the beginning and say, how I'm not here for the show. I don't have tickets, but I'd love to go in and buy some merch. Will you let me in? I think the size of the venue is going to play heavily into this, but be honest, or Taylor show, there's long security and you think my plan might not. I thought I might have found a hack to get into every concept for free from now on. I think I do think most smaller indie shows, you can probably go by merch. And I would, musicians doing it pretty hard at the moment, I would encourage you to buy merch if you're on a show. Yeah, I think you should pay for tickets and go to the show if you want to. You should sneak in. I don't, yeah, I don't think this is a move to get into shows for free, but no. If you do want to buy merch at a show, for the record, I think if you can find a way to sneak in for free to a Taylor Swift concept, do it. She has enough money. Sure she does. If you have a band that is much smaller, you pay for that ticket. You buy merch, because God, smaller bands are doing a hard right now. I am a big proponent of buying merch at shows, especially because I don't often have to pay for the show. You've got friends coming in, you pay, buy lots of merch, I have lots of t-shirts. Also, I feel like concert tickets for a venue are split up so much going to the venue and to the promoter and all that stuff, whereas I feel that merch is much more of a direct route to the artist, the person selling it will get a little cut, but the artist gets most of it. So merch is. It's the most direct line. Or just fling cash at your favourite band while they're playing. Yeah. Might be a bit weird, but give it a go. Alright,
[email protected]. We will see you next week, see you next week.
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