Victor Davis Hanson: Trump Must Confront America’s Debt Crisis

We are on an unsustainable spending spree. People are talking about $40 trillion in two or three years. We're spending a billion dollars a day in interest, and it's going to be almost impossible to pay that sum back. But government has shrunk dramatically with Doge. All of this fraud we're seeing in California, Minnesota, Chicago is reminding people that the entitlement state is way out of control. For the sake of the country, you're going to have to talk about it. Well, hello, ladies, and hello, gentlemen, and welcome to Victor Davis Hanson, In His Own Words. I'm Jack Fowler, the host. I get to ask Victor questions that I think you would ask. And actually, these are the questions you are asking. This is a Victor's Going on Vacation episode. My one week a year. I take that back, Jack. I had a week. I had a week in the hospital where I didn't do anything. Yeah, that was a vacation. You just ate Jell-O all week. So this episode is going up on Tuesday, August 25th. And the questions have been submitted by the good people at the Victor Davis Hanson Fan Club on Facebook. So we thank them for submitting these. And I'm weeding through. And I'll ask Victor. Victor is the Martin and Neely Anderson Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution. The Wayne and Washington. Busky Distinguished Fellow in History at Hillsdale College. This podcast is finds its happy home at the Daily Signal, which is also home of Victor's other show, Victor Davis Hanson, In a Few Words. Countdown from when the show is out is 10 days away from two weeks away from the actual publication date of the counterrevolution, the fall and rise of Donald Trump and the MAGA movement. Victor's I'm confident. Bestseller. So I hope so. We'll see. The other one was, but Donald Trump may have. What's the word? I think capped stunted. I think, I think he took a very brave decision to end the nuclear threat, but because it hasn't, we haven't completely engaged or we haven't defined what victory is. We'll get into that later. Well, that's, yeah, that'll be the first question. Yeah. Okay, so we'll get into that later. Yeah. Well, later we'll be right after these important messages. Female athletes are being forced to compete against biological males, sometimes without their consent or even their knowledge. In Washington, high school sophomore Callie Keeler was sexually assaulted on the wrestling mat during a tournament. Only afterward did she learn her opponent was a boy who identifies as a girl. With the help of Alliance Defending Freedom, Callie is bravely suing the state over a policy that not only allows males to compete in girls' high school sports, but doesn't require schools to disclose that information to female athletes or their parents. Don't let schools put gender ideology over the safety of girls in sports. Your support today can help fight for Callie and other athletes like her. And for a limited time, your first gift to ADF will be doubled by a special matching grant. Well-funded. Well-funds last. Text Hanson to 83848 or go to joinadf.com slash Hanson to have your gift doubled. We are back with Victor Davis Hanson in his own words. Hey, if you want to get that book, the book, or any of Victor's books, go to Victor's website, The Blade of Perseus. VictorHanson.com is the address, and you will find the link there. September 8th is the pub date for, for the Counter-Revolution. So, Victor, it was very good. You know, there's 60,000 people on the Victor Davis Hanson fan club group, and got a bunch of questions. I put it out there. Hey, Victor's going away. Can you guys, we're going to record. We're not going to have any dead zone of shows. So, I'm doing two with you. I know the great Sammy Wink's doing two with you also. So, anyway, here's a question from an old friend. Actually, she was a colleague of mine. It is. Carmen, Carmen S. She's a great lady. And she has, I think, a very pressing question. We just referred to it. What does Victor believe a true win, quote, unquote, win, looks like for the Iran war situation? He, you, Victor, may have answered this in various stages of the war, but now that we are where we are, knowing the things, no, excuse me, knowing these thugs will never honor any written or verbal agreement, how do we end this thing that would accomplish, all or most of our objectives? The latter part is a very good qualifier. There's a lot of gradations of victory. Obviously, you always want an unconditional surrender victory, but in the long course of American history, we had a non-conditional surrender in World War II, and we had a non-conditional surrender during the Civil War. You can argue that we had more of a armistice or a, an arrangement in the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812. The Mexican War was a negotiated surrender. We won in Korea, but we weren't even negotiating that surrender. They never even recognized their defeat, and that is as defined by the failure to absorb all of the Korean Peninsula. And I think you could argue that we won militarily on the battlefield due to the heroism of our troops in Vietnam, but we won militarily on the battlefield due to the heroism of our troops in Vietnam. But we lost Vietnam. And the same thing is true of Afghanistan. I, another, I think if the, I'm trying to give you context with Iraq. We did remove Saddam Hussein, and we did install a consensual government, and we did not, and we were not hit after 9-11 at the same magnitude. So those were all wins, but given the nature of the Iraqi government and its Shia components, I'm not sure that, it was an unqualified success, and I'm sure that a lot of people, I don't know if it was worth the cost in blood and treasure, as heroic as the soldiers were and how great their sacrifice was. So when we look at Iran, it's a little perplexing because there's so many freelancers. There's Jared Kushner and Witkoff that are negotiating. There's J.D. who's lending his analysis. There's Marco Rubio. Who's, I think should be, have a monopoly on official communiques. And then there's Trump himself. But if I were to distill what our objectives were from all of that, it was not regime change, which was the only way that we would have an unconditional surrender, but would cost a lot more in blood and treasure than what we did. It would require a full scale effort by the United States. And I'm not sure that that would work without having ground troops. So that was ruled off the table. So there was, first of all, we're not going to let them have a nuclear weapon. I think right now you can make the argument since we can't trust their propaganda that say that, you know, they're not hurt at all. But we can talk to some people and we have satellite reconnaissance that their nuclear program has set back 10 to 15 years. And we know now from the missiles they launched at Diego Garcia and from things that they let slip and from analysis, they were. They're probably within a few months of getting at least one or two nuclear weapons. And they had the ability to put them on a missile and hit every European capital, probably within another year. That's not on the table now. Another, the Strait of Hormuz, we did not go there to keep the Strait open because it was open. But now that during the transmogrification of the war to negotiations to the war, I think we had seven iterations of war, talk, war, talk, war. We have to have the Strait open. Now that even that is ambiguous because in a year or two, it's going to be as far as the world economy goes. Not, you know, not the import and export of commodities and durable goods from the countries inside the Gulf, but from the world economic point of view, 40% of the world will not be using the Strait of Hormuz. Right now, of the 20 million barrels, about 8 million are going out the Gulf of Oman or through the Red Sea. The Saudis, the UAE, and the other Gulf consortia are talking about expanding the Gulf of Oman, expanding the Red Sea pipelines. And also Syria and Turkey are talking about a pipeline from the oil fields all the way to the Mediterranean. And the Israelis are talking with the Saudis that maybe somewhere around Haifa through Jordan, they could get a pipeline. If that were to be true, it wouldn't just make the Strait irrelevant, but it would give importers so many more choices and it would probably be a lot more economical. They wouldn't have to go all the way through Suez from Europe necessarily and go into that Gulf in the first place. They could just go right to the Mediterranean coast as they do now with North Africa, North African oil. So what I'm getting at is Iran, can talk all they want, and they can say they're going to control the straight. They're not. But the straight's not going to be that important. So then the other goals that have been not official, but they have been hinted at are to stop the ring of fire. And the ring of fire is Hezbollah, Houthis, and Hamas. I think everybody agrees, Jack, that Hamas is a paper tiger now. It's a subterranean ghost. There's nothing they can do. You can't pound them anymore. You can disarm them, but they are inert for a while. The Houthis every once in a while send a missile, and then the Israelis take out their port or a key utility, and they're not going to do much because Iran, all the money and weaponry has been cut off to them. The thing that we're also talking about now, and I think to conclude, I think we're waiting. We're witnessing the greatest economic-military strangulation of a country we've seen in about 30 years. We're embargoing it. We're sanctioning it. We're isolating it. We're blockading it. We're debanking it. We're freezing it. Now, I know that they can cheat, and they're master cheaters. But that being said, they're losing about $400 or $500 million in economic output or GDP or income, however we define it. Every day. And they're saying the Wall Street Journal just laps it up and says, well, they're rearming, their factories are. No, they're not. Not to the degree necessary to recoup a half-century, half-trillion-dollar investment that's been pretty much destroyed. So bottom line, if we had to go home, and we're not, we would say that we crushed them. It wasn't a Libya. It wasn't even a Serbia. We've done more damage to that country than we did to Afghanistan, to Iraq, to Libya, to Serbia, to any country since the Korean War or since the Vietnam War. And where are we now? I think Donald Trump has got, as I said earlier, an anaconda civil war strategy of the North. He's going to squeeze them as much as he can. And as they start to pop, they will send off missiles or drones from their vestigial fleet, and he'll hit them hard. And he hopes that containment will continue to the midterms. I would expect an October surprise by the Iranians to try something, to get in the headlines and lose Trump the election. And then after the election, I would think that the Israelis and the Americans would hit them very hard for the slightest provocation. And that would be pretty devastating. Meanwhile, there's the wild card no one talks about, and that's what are the Iranian people going to do when they can't even afford fruit, they can't afford milk, they can't afford electricity, they can't afford gas, they can't afford diesel, they can't afford kerosene or natural gas. It's all scarce. So they're either going to retaliate against the regime, and there'll be more massacres, or they will just keep quiet, but they're not going to be active economically and fully generating wealth. They can't do it anymore, given what we've done to them. Is that victory? I don't know. But I think in our time for this particular mission, the mission was they're very close to getting a bomb, stop them, and stop them in a cost-to-benefit analysis. Tragically, we lost 17 dead, but the bigger picture to attack a country with 93 million people that was a bully of the entire Middle East and to defang it with losing three or four planes, 17, tragically, soldiers, but about $55 billion. But I don't think anybody thought you could, I mean, take that versus a trillion dollars in Iraq and probably $2 trillion in Afghanistan over 20 years. Yeah. Well, Victor, I'm going to, I have a, kind of a related follow-up on that, but first to our listeners and our viewers, if you've studied enough history, you start to see a pattern. Nations don't lose their way overnight. They drift through debt and division until one day you realize the foundations you thought were permanent were never permanent at all. Today, America is spending at levels once reserved for wartime. We've normalized deficits that would have stunned earlier generations, and policymakers now debate whether the only path forward is more distortion, more intervention, more printing. But here's the historical truth. Every society that pushed its currency beyond discipline eventually paid a price. The wise, though, they never waited for a collapse. They prepared for the correction. And that's why so many thoughtful Americans, especially those nearing retirement or in retirement, are reallocating part of their wealth into something that has outlasted every paper experiment in human history, physical gold, not as speculation, but as insulation. Our reputation, our power, and our strength. 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Victor, I have a bunch of questions from Barry McDonald, but I'm going to leave his entree to them. And I'll ask some of his other questions later. But here's one that's kind of related, because you're just giving your counsel in a way. But how would you, how would Victor, advise President Trump? And I don't think that necessarily is advising him related to Iran. And we know, Victor, that you are not pro-advising the President of the United States. But if there was an issue or a topic that you could give some counsel on, what would it be? Well, he doesn't need my counsel. I'll say that first. And I'm not a political that lives in Washington. And I don't know the scuttlebutt. And I don't know the personalities involved. But just as an outside observer, maybe from a historical point of view, his trademark is that he addresses things that no one wanted to address. Government, the size of government with Doge. And for all the Doge controversies, government has shrunk dramatically by about five years. And I don't think that's a good thing. I don't think that's a good thing. I don't talked about getting rid of the nuclear program or not allowing them to have a bomb, and none of the prior seven presidents did it. Okay, so in that context, I think he needs to talk about the last two years something that is not popular, but he's not going to be running again, and that is we are on an unsustainable spending spree. We have $31 trillion. It's going to be geometric now. We're spending a billion dollars a day in interest, and it's going to be almost impossible to pay that sum back if we don't do things, and what we have to do, we're going to have to take a hard look at Medicare and Social Security, which are death—I mean, that's political kryptonite, but you're going to have to talk about it, and the left will not—all the left will do, is demagogue it, but for the sake of the country, you're going to have to look, and I think they can—all of this fraud we're seeing in California, Minnesota, Chicago is reminding people that the entitlement state is way out of control, so I think they're going to have to just—I think if they could just say, we're going to have a hiring freeze and a budget freeze. We're not going to spend any more than we did the year before and let inflation be the actual cut. I think that— That would be something that has to be addressed. The other thing is, there isn't a multi- racial democracy of our size that works under tribalism. Indonesia doesn't work to the extent that it's a real democracy. India, I don't think, works very well. If it worked, we wouldn't have hundreds of thousands of Indians waiting to come into this country. And I don't think Brazil works very well. And they all have caste systems and tribal systems and a multiplicity of languages and religion and everything. So what I would suggest is then that he's done a great job with DEI, but I would suggest what he does is say, we're all one people. Americanism, being an American is essential, not incidental. And we're not going to talk about tribalism or race anymore. And we're going to make we're going to codify that and try to get legislation if he survives in midterms or through executive orders to expand on what he's done, because that'll kill a society, this fractionalism, sectarianism, tribalism. And it's got to stop. And these democratic socialists have substituted race for class. And all they talk about is race, race, race, and it's going to destroy the country. So that's another thing that I would advise him. As far as methodology and technique, I go back and forth. Of course, all of us say, why does he have to tweet at two in the morning? Or why does he have to make fun of Rob Reiner after he was killed? Or why does he have to do this or that? And it doesn't do any good to say, well, they're worse. They tried to kill him. They didn't just talk about being insensitive or use crude language. The left really, the people who tried to kill him are all imbued with leftist ideology. And then the movie stars and the media, you know, they had a rivalry about how best to imagine his death. And they do it all the time. So he's in the big leagues. It's not, you know, it's not beanball. So, but that said, I think I would be a little quieter. And, you know, I think I would be a little quieter. And, you know, I think I don't say much about Iran. Just say, this is what we're doing today. But when I say I'm ambiguous about that is because that he says things like, I'll give you two examples. So Oman basically crossed him on the Strait of Hormuz and other issues. He said, well, if they're going to do that and they're in our way, we'll bomb Oman. We're not going to bomb Oman. It's an ally. He used more colorful language than that. Yes. Yes. Bomb the blank, blank. And then he, South Korea, he had called up and said, you know, for the Strait and other things, we're thinking of internationalizing and you're a big importer of foreign crude oil and natural gas. Would you want to participate in Iran? Meaning, I think he was trying to imply you have ships, you could help keep up open the Strait. He wasn't asking for ground troops. I don't even think he was asking for ground troops. I don't even think he was asking for air. And they said no. So then he said, well, North Korea has been very nice to me lately. And I'm going to pull out some troops from South Korea. You remember when he came in the first time, he said, we've had 39,000 troops there for how long? Well, we had a lot more. So he's basically saying, 75 years, we've protected you from this lunatic. You're not going to be a lunatic brother and country in the North. And we've lost 35,000 dead doing it in the Korean War. So all we ask of you is to participate, not in a dangerous combative way, but just join a Western effort to keep the Strait open so it would free our ships so we can concentrate on the problem of Iran. And they said no. And under Biden, remember, he said, we're not going to charge you anything. Trump was the one who said, we're not going to charge you anything. He said, we're just charging him $3 billion a year for our troops to be there and talked about going up, I guess, to $10 billion. But the way he said it, the way it was portrayed, Trump is crazy. One day he's saying he's going to attack Oman. The next thing, he's pulling troops out of South Korea because they weren't nice to him. You see what I mean? And I think people are going to say, Victor, we're over that. That's so then. That's so history. So what? We don't care anymore what the left says. I know that. But the key, his agenda depends on the independence. So when I get calls and stuff, it doesn't bother me to tell you the truth, not at all. But I get calls from family members, friends, and they'll say, you know what, if I look at what Trump actually did in foreign policy, it's great. But why does he do this? And then they go on a rant, right? So those are, it's a hard call. But does that mean that tough, crude, often profane language shocks people and it's an intensifier or a catalyst for his policy? Or does it turn off people? I don't have that answer, but I think he might experiment by toning it down a little bit. It's the dichotomy. Yeah, I was writing very critical of Obama, but if Obama said all that stuff, and Obama said stuff that was as bad or worse, but he's did it soberly and judiciously. I just think, you know, I think we're, I don't know, we're exceptional to the degree of Greeks and the British. Everybody thinks they're exceptional. Trayvon was the son I never had. He looks like the son I never had. And, you know, everybody knows that the police shoot unarmed black men. And he did set, he sets up that was incendiary, but he set it and he got away with it. And Trump says things that are not as quite as incendiary. They're bombastic, but he doesn't because they're harsh and he uses profanity. So I'm just talking about what's in his interest at this point. Well, this is the struggle of Ethan Edwards, right? From the searchers. It's an ancient, it goes back to, as I said, Sophocles' plays of Ajax and all the others. The blunt, crude person that can solve problems. And then you ask, and then the townspeople or the people who are the beneficiaries at the point where they see success, they become hypersensitive and say, get your six gun and get out of here and ride off in the sunset. You know, that was kind of epitomized with that magnificent seven scene where the old man says, well, they, if they could, if they knew how they would say, thank you. And then I think it's Steve McQueen and Yul Brynner, he said, we're going to, he said, they don't know how to say thank you. And he said, well, we're going to leave. And I think they're going to be happy to see us go to that extent after they'd saved them from Eli Wallach and everything. And that's what Trump is. I keep going back to that tragic sense. Well, is it actually maybe emasculation or something that, that, that you have to admit that you need to be saved by somebody else? A lot of people can't, can't square that, you know, they can't. And, you know, I'll give you one last example. John Kerry, should I stop there with John Kerry? In 2013, he, in between windsurfing, and riding his race, racial bike in spandex, he gave a big talk about the era of the Monroe doctrine is over. And of those 30 nations, as I said, about 22 were communist or left-wing. They had a term they called the pink tide, the Bolivian Brotherhood League, or something of that effect that the Bolivia, Ecuador, Peru, Columbia, Venezuela, and the, the, the, the two pillars of that communist effort, egged on by the Chinese and the Russians were Cuba and Venezuela. And to even, it got so bad that Panama invited a Chinese, the Hutchinson Chinese communist country company to go in there and run the entry and exits to the canal. And we weren't going to do anything. And Trump comes in and I'm going to rewrite that canal treaty. That's not fair. And there's a bunch of commies there. If he doesn't watch out, we're going to give him, and we're going to start, if they send boats full of drugs toward North America, we're going to blow them out. Everybody said, oh, we wish we could have this sober and judicious John Kerry back. He was so diplomatic. He was so well-dressed. And then what's the, now fast forward, here we are, 32 nations in South Central and the Caribbean, America. And I can only think of four that are anti-American communists. Paraguay, that little country, Paraguay has a crazy president. Nicaragua, Ortega, Brazil, Lula, And I guess we'd say Mexico, and Cuba, yes, five of them, if we count North America and Mexico. And all the rest, 28 others have flipped. They're either pro-American, capitalist, or they've elected people who will take office soon to that effect. How did he do that? He did that by saying there's now a Don Roe doctrine. We're going to help our friends and hurt our enemies, and we're going to get those SOB commies out and allow you guys not to be bullied. And you can have free elections, but you don't have to worry about a bunch of Cuban infiltrators or Venezuelan money corrupting your systems. And the United States isn't going to look the other way or secretly, with a wink and nod, support you, as democratic socialists do. We're going to be there to help you get rid of these communists and have free elections and free market. And it worked. It worked. Kerry could have never done that. Biden made it worse. They were almost rooting for the other team. And he did that in two years, less than two years, Trump did. Everybody in South America and Central America said, wow, Trump's on our side. He's going to stop the communists. Maybe I can come out of the woodwork and vote. So anyway. Well, maybe you should add a sixth country, Canada, but that's North here. So, Victor, I have another question from Barry. But first, I want to tell our listeners and viewers about something. So American homeowners, the FBI has been warning about a type of real estate fraud called title theft and your equity. Your equity is the target. With just a forged signature, your ownership can be transferred out of your name. And without protection. Without protection in place, you are left with an emotional and financial nightmare. That's why you should visit Home Title Lock. So you can find out today if you're already a victim and protect yourself. Use the promo code Victor, V-I-C-T-O-R, at HomeTitleLock.com to get a free title history report plus a free trial of their million dollar triple lock protection. That's 24-7 monitoring, urgent alerts, and a free trial of their million dollar triple lock protection. And if you're a victim of fraud, they'll spend up to $1 million to fix it. That's HomeTitleLock.com, promo code Victor, or use the link in the show notes. Don't be a victim. Protect your home equity today with Home Title Lock. And we thank the good people from Home Title Lock for sponsoring Victor Davis Hanson in his own words. So let me read here Barry McDonald's opening now. Listening to you, the great VDH brings me a tremendous amount of joy. Each episode is packed with knowledge and insights that are only found through VDH's wisdom. Discovering the podcast less than two years ago, I've listened to every episode. I haven't felt this enlightened since the days of Rush Limbaugh's radio show, R.I.P. So here's an interesting question. I think, Victor, a lot of people are interested in Victor. And when you talk about growing up and your family, it just connects with people. And I'm going to lump that mindset in with this question. Barry's interested in your perspective on American life during the Cold War. Nuclear bomb drills in school, communist propaganda. How real was the. What was it like to live in that moment? And how real was the threat? Your assessment now, politically, militarily, was it really a threat? What's your take on this? Well, there was a great bewilderment because we had won World War II. Our economy had dwarfed our GDP when the war ended. It was larger than the Axis and the Allies combined. So was our fleet, by the way. And we had supplied 30% of the wherewithal, along with Britain and Lend-Lease to Russia. And all of a sudden, our ally, some people naively thought empowered. I mean, they were empowered by the Roosevelt administration, maybe to an excessive degree. But they were empowered by the Roosevelt administration. But nevertheless, they became our enemy. And they took over all these countries that we had gone in. The Allies under Britain had gone in to free Eastern Europe. That was Poland was attacked. And Czechoslovakia had been absorbed. And they ended up institutionalizing their subjugation to a totalitarian Russia. So that was a profound sense of disappointment, bewilderment, finger-pointing. Swedish grandfather would come over all the time. Cousins, uncles. Thanksgiving was a madhouse of like 10 kids, 12 kids, 15 kids. It was wonderful. It really was. And we didn't think about the bomb then. Do you remember there was a movie, black and white movie with Ray Moland and Jean Hagen? She played the singing in the rain. She was the obnoxious actress, although she was terrific. But it was about Californians escaping to the country. I remember that movie. And then there was one on the beach. Remember? I love that movie. Yeah. That is Gregory Peck and Ava Gardner and Fred Astaire in his first dramatic role. And they get killed, as I remember. And then there was one other episode when Reagan was elected. He said that he was not going to contain but defeat. They asked him what his strategy was in the Cold War. And he didn't say containment. He said victory. Rollback. Rollback. Free. And everybody got scared. And then they put those SS-10 or 12 missiles into Eastern Europe, short-range tactical nuclear weapons. And that broke a protocol of the Cold War. And all the Democrats were astonished when Reagan put nuclear… nuclear-tipped Pershing missiles in Germany and said, when you do that, we're going to do that. And, of course, he went into Grenada and got rid of a communist government. And that scared everybody. And then all of a sudden, everybody should remember Hollywood, before they hated Donald Trump, they hated Ronald Reagan. Remember that movie, The Day After, where the United States is hit by about 50 nuclear weapons. And then the family is, oh, the daughter says, I never got to have sexual relations. And the mother says, oh. Yeah, Jason Robards was the star of it. Yeah. That was such a huge event, Victor. It was. I can remember I voted for John Anderson. But the fact that I didn't vote for Jimmy Carter and my Democratic family, people got really… I was the only one. And I liked Reagan. My parents, who were Democrats, liked Reagan. They just didn't vote for him. But I remember going to the supermarket in 1980. In 1982 or late 81. And a guy came up to me that I went to high school and said, you should be ashamed of yourself. It's people like you. And I said, what did I do? He said, well, you didn't vote against Reagan. And Reagan's going to get us all killed. And I said, no, he's not. But that was kind of a little Cuban Missile Crisis re-duke. Yeah. I remember it was a Sunday night. ABC played it. And the country was gripped by that the day after. And they got hysterical. Carl Sagan. And there was a… Remember that term we heard, nuclear winter? Nuclear winter, yeah. Carl Sagan barmstormed the country giving lectures that we were all going to freeze to death because the dust from the explosions would block out the sun for three to five years. That was before global warming. Now they'd probably say, wow, that's a good idea. But then it was always psychodrama. But… It just reminded me of that scene in Zulu with Jack. Jack Hawkins was playing the minister, and as he's leaving the British encampment, he's screaming, you're all going to die. You're all going to die. Yeah, I remember. Yeah. Yeah, that was the attitude. Well, Victor, I have a few more questions. These shows are going to be a little shorter, but we're going to just take a break. And when we come back, I'll ask one or two more, and we'll come back right after these important messages. Every state is home to significant historic sites that tell the American story, but not every site is telling that story honestly and fairly. That's why the Heritage Foundation created the Heritage Guide to Historic Sites. This interactive guide equips American citizens with the tools they need to enjoy the sites that depict some of the greatest moments in our nation's history, analyzing them for historical accuracy, and provides resources for families or educators planning a visit. From Mount Vernon to Independence Hall to Gettysburg and more, Americans deserve transparency, and sites that steward our history faithfully deserve our gratitude. The Heritage Guide to Historic Sites invites every American to rediscover the places and stories that define our nation, whether it's across the country or in your backyard. Visit historicsites.heritage.org to start your adventure today. Victor Davis Hanson in his own words this episode of Vacation. Vacation episode is up on August 25th. I guess, you know, this is a question from Rose Rand. Very simple, Victor. I thought maybe we'll just close on this. What are your views on data centers? Yeah, that's in this area that's agricultural and electricity prices are high in California, the highest in the United States. So there's been just a kind of a Pavlovian opposition to them because they say they take too much water either for the nuclear generation or to cool things down and the electricity's too high. Then the people from the AI industry say three things. After the initial water, so many gallons, they don't, we recycle the water and we can use gray water from sewage plants. And we, it's self-contained and it takes no more water and leakage or steam or whatever than an almond orchard of the same size. I've heard that so many times now in this area. And then, of course, we're happy to promise or to have it through legislation prohibited from affecting electricity rates. So they're counting on everything from electrical generation. I mean, Elon Musk. Elon Musk thinks he can do the AI, he can solve the power needs by satellite solar things in orbit. So things means huge satellites. And other people say we will have fusion in three years. It'll be many fusion reactors all over. I think there's already one that's going to operate by the end of the year, an experimental one. Right. So I don't see those as problems. They will create jobs. It's kind of like the Amazon Walmart scare in the 1990s and 2000 when they said Amazon is going to destroy Barnes and Noble. And it did. And you're not going to be able to go and have your latte and sit on the carpet and, you know, chant or something in the book section. That was sad. And then I have a lot of friends that I knew own bookstores, too. There were three of them. And some survived, some didn't. But, I mean, this is part of the change. But more importantly, AI is in a different category. It's kind of like oil. When people say we don't want to drill oil in California, that de facto means you want to import people's oil from Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. And you assume, because you believe in planet Earth, that they can extract the oil more environmentally sound than you can. And they can't. No one can be safer. Or has more legislation to protect the environment than the United States. So when you say I'm not going to get my hands dirty with black goo, you're saying other people will do that. And the same holds true with AI. If we don't have a preeminence in it, the Chinese will. And we've seen from COVID. I mean, I don't support gain of function. I'm glad we outlawed it. But we had Fauci thought he could control that. I guess when he secretly and illegally funneled money probably to them and instrumentation and personnel. But he couldn't. And the Chinese let loose a virus. Well, just imagine when they get AI what they're going to do, either accidentally or on purpose. So I think it's absolutely critical that the United States maintain. And I just looked at a data thing today, as I said, Jack. The largest AI platforms in the world based on daily traffic, eight of them are American. And the top seven are all American. So what I'm saying is we have already established a lead. And I don't think we would want to give that up to the Chinese. It would be too dangerous. And I can imagine what they're doing with it now and what they would be doing with it. And if we don't. If we don't remain preeminent, I'm very scared of it. And I think we can control it in a way that Chinese can't anyway. And even if we have remained preeminent in artificial intelligence, it's still going to be a challenge because they're going to do stuff that we wouldn't do to get an advantage militarily or in some economic sphere. Yeah. So cautiously optimistic and it's incumbent upon the AI companies to go to these communities and say to them, we're going to have an AI. plant, and it's going to bring in this number of jobs and this amount of GDP to the local economy, and here's $20, $30 million for the expansion of sewer and roads and infrastructure, and we pledge that we will not use any more water than another industry, and we won't raise the price of electricity. And then I think it's a positive. I'm actually a lot more worried about solar farms, Jack, because— I agree. Yeah, and windmill. I drive to Palo Alto, and I go down Manning Avenue, and I saw about 100 acres. Now it's thousands of acres of these panels, and the way the west side works, as it gradually has a slight increase in elevation, that land drains better. It doesn't have the selenium problem. And that's— That's really good land, and it's thousands of acres of farmland have been taken out, partly because Gavin Newsom doesn't want them to have any water, so he cut off all the water to the farmers, and then they sold to the state, who paid them pretty well, and you have these ugly solar farms for miles, and the idea—an AI plant would take up just a small fraction of that acreage. And we have 110% capacity. And we have 110% capacity in California for daytime energy, and we're—I think we have about a 40% nighttime deficit, and a cold day—a cloudy day, rainy day deficit. And so—and then I go over Pacheco Pass, and I see these ugly, gigantic wind turbines. The other day we were driving, it was very windy. I think there were 10 of them, and only three were working. Yeah. So— There's this one—when I came down there from Napa to Fresno— Through all—yeah, you— Probably came through the ultimate pass, ultima. Yeah, it seemed like there were, well, there were hundreds. Hundreds, no, there are there. That's the biggest one in Northern California. Yeah, it was quite ugly. The lie of all that, Victor, is that the energy cost to make these solar fields and make these monstrous bird Cuisinarts does not equal the energy they produce. And what do you do with them when they're useless anymore? It's a catastrophe. Literally a few miles away from that solar plant, we know the Monterey Shale formation has huge amounts of natural gas. We know that the land is hilly and unfarmable and arid, unlike the rich San Joaquin Valley supplied by the Central Valley Project and the State Water Project. And so what I'm getting at is… It would be so much easier to tap natural gas right there in the coast range above I-5 and build a 300 or 400-acre natural gas generation plant and use the water from one of the reservoirs, you know, build lots, then do this. So I'm not as worried. I want the AI companies to make, you know, to abide by this. by the needs of the local community for the infrastructure costs, the electricity costs, the water problem. If they can meet that criteria, then all power to them, because we as a country cannot let other countries be ahead of us in AI. It's too dangerous a technology. It's like the arms race. It's very similar to the nuclear arms race. Well, I wonder if, and we're closed, but a byproduct, you mentioned these nuclear little facilities being tested, but if a byproduct of these data centers is an industry of really small, portable nuclear energy. Yes, fusion with no waste, no waste fusion, at least not like fission. And what that could do for our economy and the world economies is probably dramatic. Well, Victor, we know no listener, viewer comments. Yeah. The end of these vacation shows. So I just want to thank you for answering these questions. I want to thank the people from the Victor Davis Hanson fan club for submitting them. We're going to record another episode of those questions, but thanks again, everyone for watching and viewing. And we will be back soon with another episode of Victor Davis Hanson in his own words. Bye-bye. Thank you everybody for watching and viewing. Thank you for tuning in. To the Daily Signal, please like, share, and subscribe to be notified for more content like this. You can also check out my own website at victorhansen.com and subscribe for exclusive features in addition.