Value in Every Action with Erin Bradley

Hey, it's Phil Treadwell, and before we dive into today's episode, I have a game-changer for you. Top performers don't succeed by chance. They follow proven systems, stay accountable, and surround themselves with the right people. That's where growth happens. That's exactly what the M1 Academy Mastermind Group is all about. This is a free, monthly coaching and strategy experience designed for professionals who are serious about building a high-performing, sustainable business. Despite these group coaching calls, you'll get direct access to tactical training, industry leading strategies, and a community of driven professionals. Each month, we'll dive deep into streamlining systems, building a magnetic personal brand, creating engaging content, and proven lead generation strategies. If you're serious about growth, this Mastermind Group is not optional. It's time to align with the right people, apply the right strategies, and move with urgency. You can register for the M1A Mastermind Group by clicking the link on our show notes or by going to M1A.Pro/Mastermind. That's M, the number 1A.Pro/Mastermind. We'll see you on the inside. Now let's get into the episode. Welcome to the Morgan's Marketing Expert Podcast, where expert guests teach you how to have success in the mortgage and fuel-estate industry. Here's your host, Phil Treadwell. Welcome back to the Morgan's Marketing Expert Podcast. I'm your host, Phil Treadwell. Our Morgan's Marketing Expert today is Aaron Bradley. She's a repeat guest that I'm very excited to have back because we had her way back our first year of the podcast in 2018-2019. Her business has grown and evolved in a huge way. We're very excited to unpack some of that, but she's a speaker. She's the best-selling author, she's host of the Pursuing Freedom Podcast and she's dedicated to empowering real estate professionals. This is going to be a fun conversation. We're just going to jump right in because people can go back and listen to your first episode. They can check the show notes for all the details of your bio, but you're a 20-year real estate veteran. The first question that I have is something we were talking a little bit about before we started recording and that's mortgage professionals and real estate professionals and that partnership around it. How many mortgage professionals are just cold calling or just cold reaching out or trying to meet and develop real estate relationships? That's not necessarily the most effective way to make this happen. Partnerships are about relationships. I'd love for you to share your experience not only as you coach real estate professionals, but in your real estate career, what's the right move here? What's the thing to do that you can go find and create the right relationships for your business? Sure. Well, let me start by saying that it was not pretty. If you do go back and listen to the first episode, you'll hear the story about how I fell flat on my face when I went 100% commission way back in 2007, perfect timing, by the way, to get into the mortgage industry. I was terrified of sales and all things being seen as salesy and when I first got into the business and all of my managers and mentors were telling me that I needed to cold call real estate offices with cookies and rate sheets and I was like, nope, I'm a hard pass on that. Very early on after falling flat on my face, I actually hired my first business coach thanks to more credit card debt because I had just had my credit card declined for a $2 cup of coffee in front of the client and I was at rock bottom and I was desperate. My dad was like, well, if you think you're going to go to this, do whatever it takes. I opened another credit card, got my first business coach and I actually hired a coach that was for real tours, not for lenders and they later opened up to lenders but I was probably on the leaving edge of that and as a result, I was being coached a little bit differently. I was being coached to work my database and out of desperation, I was willing to do whatever it takes and I just said to the coach, literally, tell me what to do and I'll do it. So I would muscle through the activity, I would muster up the courage. It was awkward. It was painful. I felt like an alien. I remember saying to my husband, I don't know if I'm really cut out for this, you know. But anyway, fast forward to 2011, I've been in the business now four years, I'm doing okay, I'm getting by and somebody gives me the book, The Go-Giver and if you haven't read it, I know Phil's nodding because he's probably read it but if you haven't read The Go-Giver, I highly recommend it, it changed my life and ultimately, the philosophy is that the goal is to give value above and beyond what you get paid to do. Give more value than you hope to receive in payment and for whatever reason it clicked because up until that point, I had been the antithesis, I had been The Go-Giver, right? The coaches say, "Make this many calls, write this many notes, see this many people to get leads, to get deals, to get money to pay your bills." So everything had felt very self-serving and in that process, I was missing the real opportunity to be a value to people when they don't need my services because the phone call was all about me getting leads, right? So I felt a lot of resistance around it and even if I did it, it kind of fell flat. So I ended up developing a new approach thanks to The Go-Giver and I developed a strategy where I could become unleashed in communication with my community, my target market, my past clients and genuinely come from one perspective only, which is how can I actually be a resource to this person when they don't need my services? So my insecurity was squashed by curiosity and in order to be a resource to people, I needed to know more resources. So I started developing this strategy of having, like, an old school roller-dacks for everything that they could possibly need, but in this process, I also started having different conversations with real estate agents because when I would meet other business owners, I would start asking them questions on how I can be a value to them, not what I can get from them. And that, for me, changed everything. It went from feeling super awkward and insecure to just feeling like light and having fun and finding ways to help people. And so in those conversations with real estate agents, back in this is back in 2011, I started to realize I wasn't alone, like, we've all been given the playbook. Everybody listening knows what they could be doing or should be doing. So why don't we feel like it? Like, why? What are we struggling with? What's the disconnect? And so I started teaching that strategy that was working for me to real estate agents. And I saw them start to overcome their insecurities and become more unleashed in the activity, the engagement, the visibility, the contribution. And everybody was having a better time with the activity. And my business more than doubled. I went from averaging like 30 transactions a year to doing nearly 80 in 2012, you know, pregnant with my second child, no systems, no game plan, never expected this level of volume. I crumbled completely under it. I was just drowning in my business. And I almost quit the business, but I ended up getting advice to get some help. So I started to scale, and I started to grow beyond my personal capacity. And I started teaching that to real estate agents. And again, what I found was, in honest conversations with other human beings, the job title does not define us. We all as human beings struggle from day to day with the emotional scale that is the human experience, right? We've all struggled with insecurity and self-doubt and exhaustion and overwhelm and anger and frustration, as well as joy and engagement and fun and pride of accomplishment and ease and help, you know, all the things, right? So all this long answer to a short question led me to, in 2019, recognizing for those who have been in the business a long time, you may remember that rates went up in 2018. It was temporary before the massive boom. But they did go up, and the refi business died, and there was a big shake up in the mortgage industry. I know my income, my volume declined. And by that point, I had a small team in place, and I had hired some of my loved ones. So I was unwilling to take the advice and corporate and lay people off. But I did start 2019 in the red, tens of thousands of dollars on my PNL, if I'm honest. So I wish I could say that it's been a straight line, it hasn't. But I looked around and I had a really solid why I was not willing to let my team down. And so together, we applied the same strategy, but we applied it with our database because I saw how loan officers were chasing realtors. And I also was behind the curtain with realtors, knowing what their real struggles are. And I recognize that there was a, in my opinion, an issue in the industry where lenders are just blanket taught to chase real estate agents because of their job title. And we're essentially putting our livelihood in the hands of someone other than ourselves. But as business owners, we have the opportunity to do so much more. And so we decided we're not going to do that. We're going to clean up our database and tail between my legs, pick up the dang phone, start dialing, right? And just admit to people I haven't talked to in three years, I'm sorry, I've been so out of touch. You popped up on my feed or in my phone or in my mind, and I just want to say hello. And over the course of those first four months of 2019, we went from three closing the months to nine a month to 12 a month. And we also watched as our repeat and referral from past client business went from my 22% to 60%. So we were essentially affecting the source of our business by applying our attention and energy and activity in that direction. And the staggering statistic because we were tracking everything is that only 50% of our repeat clients were working with the same realtor. So we had a huge aha moment where we realized that as a lender partner, we have an incredible opportunity to do more than ask for leads and that we are more than an interest rate. We are a business partner and that we know what the challenges agents face are and that we're willing to support them with those challenges. So we created this entire eight week touch point series with realtor us to inform them of what we were witnessing and commit to them what we're willing to do to help this issue and to never allow our past clients to slip through the cracks ever again. And then by doing this eight week program, we could also demonstrate what we were preaching, what we were claiming we were going to do. So that by the end of it, they could see like this team is no joke. They just they just proved it with their actions. So there's no blowing smoke here. And it was a fascinating thing that allowed us to really amplify and more than double our business, you know, having started in the red and I think it's important because people listening, you know, if they're feeling stuck and if they have been for a long time can be really hard to get out of that valley and it can be really easy to blame external circumstances for why we're not thriving. But you know through your podcast and I know through mine, there are plenty of real estate and mortgage professionals that have been having their best years ever in the last few years. And the question is why, like what's the difference? Well, it's their decision to do it. And then their willingness to get innovative and figure out how, you know. So anyway, I get really fired up about this because I still feel like there's there's advice out there that is like chase agents, chase agents and the agents don't like it. The lenders don't like it and it's not necessarily the most effective way to do it. I think there's opportunity for us to be a more value to our realtors and get them coming to us because they see us as an example of confidence or consistency or discipline or execution and value ultimately value. That's all it really boils down to like be the gogever to every person in your life and you can't fail. That's exactly right. Now, and I love that you added the context in there because at the end of the day as lenders, if you're wanting to create a partnership like any relationship, there has to be some type of a value. Now we get caught up in this. What is value? And I want to make sure and say this for everyone. We don't have to boil the ocean coming up with ways to add value to someone's business. It can be the low hanging fruit of helping them with their marketing, helping them get more leads, helping them convert more leads. Sometimes value can be the small things. Sometimes it can be as simple as reaching out to them and saying, Hey, I know you like steak. I just passed the steakhouse. If you haven't tried it, you should try it. Right. Having real relationships with people, you can even do this for all kinds of content creation purposes for any avatar or group of people that's running the market to type in chat GPT. What are the big, the 10 biggest challenges the real estate professionals face in building their business or in life or whatever? Let them spit it out and then say for ideas, two, three and seven, I talked about this on a previous podcast ideas, two, three and seven. We're some great content ideas or in person ideas to have a conversation about what are real things of value for people. If you think about a referral relationship, what are things that can be reciprocated? I heard Tim Bohem say years and years ago on stage, no one reciprocates with takers. And to your point, this dynamic that's been created between mortgage and real estate professionals is realtor has leads or business buyers, mortgage people walk up with their hand out and say, Hey, let me show you how good my service really is or let's go for coffee, let's go for lunch, let's go for golf and send me all your business. He's opposed to creating a real partnership. So I love that you that you kind of talked about that dynamic. So what are some practical things that people can do, right? If you don't know someone and you're wanting to start getting to know them, you're wanting to figure out where is it that I can specifically add value. How do I create a relationship to this person? What are a few practical things that you can offer for people to start initiating those relationships and finding areas where they can add value for them? Well, I think it's a multifaceted question, right? So first and foremost, if you have existing relationships and we've been programmed to believe that picking up the phone to call you Phil because you're a realtor and I'm a lender is the thing I'm supposed to do so I can get leads so I can get deals so I can get money so I can survive and pay my bills. I'm going to fill resistance around picking up the phone to call you because I'm thinking about myself. And I think it was seven levels of communication by Michael Marr a million years ago where he said, if you're still feeling call anxiety, it's because you're thinking too much about yourself. And I remember just like feeling that like a kick in the gut and it's like, yeah, like my insecurity around what Phil might think of me and whether he has referrals for me or all these other things, a me problem. So the first thing I would say is this, when Phil wakes up at three o'clock in the morning and he can't fall back asleep, I know one thing for sure, he is not thinking about my pipeline, he is not thinking about my kids college tuition or my rental property that didn't pay rent or whatever, he's not thinking about my life, he's thinking about his, he's thinking about something he's either really excited about and he can't fall back asleep or he's super stressed about he can't fall back asleep or the project he's working on and the place he dropped the ball today and he forgot to do that thing right so it's you, you're thinking about you. We are all thinking about ourselves, which is fine, but that's why I say replace the insecurity with curiosity, replace your fear with love, human beings are going through life all the time and job title doesn't make a special, which means that somewhere deep down inside, Phil's got some hopes and dreams and he's got some challenges and he's got some uncertainties and maybe some overwhelm, whatever. And if I can make it my mission to get to the bottom of that, if I can get to the bottom of the 3 a.m. moment, I will then know how to be a value, but how am I going to do that if I don't have a conversation with you. So that is number one is come from a place of love, authenticity, curiosity and contribution and you'll find how to be a value to the person where they are today. It might just be that and this happened like one time I called a rilter buddy of mine and his six year old son had broken his foot and it was the middle of summer. So that really stunk. So we just set a $10 Lego in the mail and that makes an impact on the hearts and minds, right? The first thing I would tell you is we called it opportunity alerts where we're looking for the opportunity to show someone that we've heard them. And then we're going to prove it with some kind of item of value, some follow up, so that follow up could be I'm texting you a referral to such and such, I'm sending you a handwritten note to say I'm sorry to hear about that or I'm so excited for you about that. I found out your kid got into college and I sent you a mug for the college, right? Or it might be you need referrals for contractors or maybe we're going to have a discussion around the long-term wealth building vision that you might have. So do you have people in your back pocket real estate agent that you refer your clients to to get a will and trust set up after they bought the house? Like get their wheels turning, second thing I would encourage people to do, this is what I did is very early on. I started listening to real estate podcasts. So like real estate rock stars was one of my favorites. I was like one of the OG real estate podcasts and I would listen to an episode where I heard something cool and interesting strategy and then I would text that episode out to ten or fifteen realtor connections and say, "Dude, I just listened to this real estate agent in New Jersey who's got this really cool strategy. I think we could implement something like that in our business." And that's how we ended up developing our VIP buyer experiences that I heard it on a podcast from a realtor in New Jersey and then I brought it to all my realtor partners and said, "We as your lending partner are going to handle this. We can split the cost because of respa, but I've got the team in place that can handle the execution because you're really busy, right?" The next thing is honoring and appreciating the fact that agents are driving around on nights and weekends to get our clients under contract. We're not doing that. We're in the office. We have the opportunity to do more and do better with the overall client experience before adoring a long after to help with retention and attracting referrals. So if you really have an honest conversation with most real estate agents, a lot of them will admit they struggle with keeping in touch with their past clients. They feel awkward. They don't know what to talk about. That person doesn't want to buy right now, blah, blah, blah, blah, and you're right. That's a you problem, right? But the reality is they're losing 50% of their repeat business because they're not staying in touch. That's an opportunity and something that a lender can communicate with a brand new real estate partner like potential prospect, whatever. So let's see your meeting in Asia for the first time. If you're able to rattle off your business model confidently and say, "These are the things that we do as a lender partner that are a little bit different than a lot of the lenders out there. We're more than just an interest rate. We want to be the client's resource before, during, and long after closing. And here's what that looks like. We make calls two weeks, two months, six months in a year. We look for the opportunity alert. We then call you who may be lost touch and we alert you to what's going on in their life. And then we leverage the team we have in place to execute on some kind of item of value. So that, again, is like, we talk to the client, Phil, have you, did you hear? Did you hear that something great is happening or something terrible is happening? Did you hear? And now Phil feels triggered to contact that past client to say hello because he feels like he has a reason to call that isn't about himself. So we're helping them overcome their own inconsistencies and we're also leading with that value of, hey, when you're not doing it because you're offered to get accepted or the buyer bailed on your listing and you're down in the dumps and the wind got taken out of your sales, you're not in the mood to make those calls. You can count on us. We're doing it on behalf of both of us and during the times that we're both doing it, even better, right? But we will never let a past client slip through the cracks ever again. That's our commitment to you. And then this is what we do once they go under contract. And so the question I often have for people is like, do you have a business plan, a system and a schedule that creates predictable growth in your business that you can articulate to a potential strategic partner? Because chances are, I'm going to be generous when I say 80% of real estate agents, because I have been coaching them for over a decade and I'm in accountability groups and masterminds with them. 80% of them could not answer that same question. They don't have a plan, they don't have a schedule, they don't have a system for creating consistent lead flow, which is why I don't think Lender should be single, handily putting your livelihood in the hands of someone who can't tell you what their business strategy for success is. So you've got to develop your own, you've got to be able to communicate that to potential partners. And that's how you stand out from the rest. And you're no longer just an interest rate. So we don't need to worry about being reached out because we're so much more than just a mortgage lender. I love that because, again, when we go to this, how do I break the ice, how do I continue to provide value, how do I follow up with them, podcasts are an easy thing, right? Book recommendations, podcasts, I heard this, I saw this, check it out. Those are massive values because that could create an unlock for them. There's so many things you can do and then you get into the tactical things of follow-up and communication. I'm right there with you. I think it's probably higher than 80%. I think it's probably closer to 90% of real estate professionals and realtors and for those that are in our audience. You're not in that group because you're actively executing on it. But in the industry as a whole, 90% of them are very, very poor with communication and follow-up. So you can create your own strategy there. You could have a simple conversation and say, you know, how many deals did you close last year? Let's say they close 20, which is a really good year for a lot of realtors. Let's say they close 20 deals. Okay, about how many people do you think you talked to to close those 20 deals? Let's just for argument say it was 100 because it's easy math. And ask them, do you think it's realistic that some of those 80 people that you talked to went on to buy or list a home and just didn't use you? Of course. Now the sudden you have a place that you could help them add value. If you have a strong CRM, if you have a great follow-up strategy, if you have a great communication strategy going in and doing that alongside them with them for them. Now the sudden you're converting more of the deals that the leads have already created. And you're able to ask them, okay, well, how much do you make per deal? Again, freezing math, let's say $10,000. If I can help you close five more of those people that you're already talking to, do you think you could probably use an extra $50,000 this year? Absolutely. And now we're talking like very tactical specific strategies, but to your point, and I want to make sure that we don't bury the lead on this, guys, it all starts with a conversation. You need to be doing this with your clients. You need to be doing this with your realtors. You need to ask them, what is significant about? What is important about? You're asking why, but we don't want to ask why. When you ask someone why they get defensive, it's a defensive question. I could say to Aaron, hey, Aaron, that's a really nice jacket. Why did you wear that today? Is opposed to, hey, Aaron, that's a nice jacket. What was significant about you wearing that today? And if we'll have those questions with our clients, what's significant about you becoming a first time home by how important is this next home purchase for you? And you get down to the nitty-gritty of the things that are actually important to them or challenges they have, which in turn allow you to open up with value with real estate professionals. Everyone should write this down. If you're having a one on one with a realtor, first of all, don't talk to them for hours. Don't take up their time and don't sit there and sell yourself. You're not going to sell yourself on a relationship in one coffee appointment. Keep it to about 30 minutes and there's three questions. The first one, how'd you get in this crazy business? You probably weren't raising your hand at elementary school saying I wanted to be a realtor. But then you get to find out about their background and their story. Second question, how are you navigating the things that are going on right now? Because there's always something going on in the business, and then you get to hear about how their business is made up and how they're trying to get results. And the third question is the most important. What's your focus for this quarter? Because what we should be focusing on are things that we're good at. But most of this, when someone asks us what's our focus, we're focusing on getting better at something or a challenge or a pain point. And now the sudden you can step in and out of value. And I've got multiple stories of this where I asked people that question. They would talk about a challenge. We were able to come in and it gave us a reason to follow up a few days later with a solution or potential solutions. And it created a lot of other conversations and internal lot of business. So I wanted to make sure, and I feel free to add anything to this, as we've got to get better of having that go-give or attitude and sometimes asking questions and having a conversation is in and of itself value for people, because you're not just walking there with your hand out. 100%. Well, and it was also seven levels of communication that says you want to leave every interaction with an action item. And so often, I remember, as early on in my career, that during those years of feeling like a go-getter, you know, I had the game plan, I knew what to do. I didn't feel very confident with it because it didn't feel very aligned, but I did it anyway because I was desperate. And it was fine. It was fine. It wasn't great. I wasn't really having fun, but it was like, I needed to deal with it. So I needed the money. And when I looked back during that season in my career, I realized that I was not leaving any of my conversations with an action item. I was just checking the box to feel good about having done it. And I was very, very busy, but not necessarily productive. The answer's lie in the conversation to your point, like nothing comes without a conversation. And so one of the things that I used to do to help myself overcome my own insecurity early on, especially after reading the go-giver was, if I needed nothing, that's how I would start my day. If I needed nothing, how would I want to feel? How would I feel if I needed nothing? Okay. So first, I want to get myself into the optimal state of energy and clarity and focus before I even engage with the world is like, how do I want to feel? And how am I going to get myself there in spite of my circumstances right now? Second thing is how can I be a valid people? And third is how will I know? So social media, and mailers, and e-news letters, and even handwritten notes, and all these things are a beautiful thing to keep you visible in top of mind and that's marketing 101. But if you're not in conversation with somebody, how are you really going to know how you can be a value to them? That's right. And that's why I think it's tricky with even hiding behind DMs and text messages. Like sometimes people will see something on social media and they'll like it, or they'll love it, or they'll send a little message, but like, I would pick up the phone. I would pick up the phone and say, I saw what you post on social media. I just want to check in with you. How are you holding up? Right? And the best way I can also describe this would be to say, think about how you show up on the weekends when you're not thinking about work, when you're hanging out with your best friend, and your best friend is going through something wonderful and you're celebrating with them and you're feeling all the joy with them, you're just totally tuned in to them. And if they're going through something horrible or tragic, you're there right beside them. And if it's somewhere in between a lot of times, we show up as a problem solver. Like, you know what you should do, Phil? I've got an idea for you. Let me connect you to so and so. Have you thought about this, Phil? Right? Like this is just us, heart and soul, unfiltered. And then Monday morning rolls around. You put on your workout and it's like, the hat workout weighs like 400 pounds is like a dunce cap and it's like, now I look at the thing I learned at the training last week. Well, my manager wants me to do or the statistics of the metrics and all the things that everything just feels like a grind. And I know exactly what I should be doing or could be doing and I just can't bring myself to do it. And I get distracted and I am to the dishwasher and I run some errands. And I say there's not enough hours in the day, but I didn't actually do anything, right? So what I would encourage people to do is take the workout off, like put it on the shelf, drop the agenda that's making it all uncomfortable. It's because we're thinking about ourselves and it just creates this whole like clogging of the pipes, right? So we just want to lighten up a little bit and I would say just open up your database, look for the people in your life that bring a smile to your face. Look for the people that you know are energizers and get in touch with them from a perspective of how can I get to the bottom of how I can be the value to this person? Well, I don't know if I, I don't know how to be a value until I talk to them and I'm coming from a place of love and curiosity. It's sincere. It's genuine. And that one conversation can breed multiple action items. And when I execute on those action items, I have to show the same version of me, curious to find the action item with every interaction I have, you'll have no limit to what you can be taking action on. And hopefully it'll feel a little bit lighter than it does when you're wearing that heavy workout and you're separating your heart and soul from this business, which is you. And I also think literally every single person listening is equipped with the life experiences you've lived to date to be uniquely capable of being a value to somebody based on what they're going through, based on what you've been through, based on what you're interested in, what your hobbies are, you know, what your skills are, whatever, like you're already uniquely equipped to be a value to somebody else if you sincerely care about them. And if you let that be the impetus for everything you do, you will not fail. The only reason anyone's failing right now is because they're trying to play a secret agent and hiding behind push marketing and they're not actually being a valued anybody because they're caught up in what am I going to get out of this and it feels awkward, it feels salesy. And this person has a rate of 2.75 and they're not buying right now, like, yeah, they're not. That's not why you're calling. We've got to go for the ripple effect. We can't see the conversations that are had at the dinner table and at the office beyond the interactions we have with people. They promise you there's a ripple effect happening if you're making an impact on people's hearts and minds. And if that's the only purpose for your engagement, you cannot fail. It's about taking action. I was going to ask that question, but you already answered it. Why aren't people taking enough action and it just circles back around to what you said earlier? They're making it about them as opposed to the other people. If we take the zig-zag or approach of you can have everything you want if you'll help enough other people get what they want. That's the irony of this business is we know how to create friendships and relationships in our personal life. And then we put on our mortgage hat, as you said, or our real estate hat and everything we know about people and creating relationships with people goes out the window because our purpose isn't to create a friendship or to create a relationship. It's to get something from it. When you go into your personal relationships, you're typically not just solely focused on what am I going to get out of this friendship from them? What are they going to do for me? You're like, no, we have common interests and I want to offer a piece of advice. I want to refer them something. I want to tell them something that they may not know. I want them to do that for me as well. That's what we have to do in our business side is we need to put that aside and say, this is someone I genuinely want to get to know and I genuinely want to find out how there's some way for me to potentially help them and then everything you want comes on the other side of that. From an action standpoint, I love that you gave an every example of that now gives you an action item. It gives you something to do. Here's what you have in the conversation and then once you walk away from the conversation, here is something for you to do. Here is how to follow up. Here is something that you can do. Guys, this business is all about taking action. I don't care. We talk about mindset. We talk about frames, we talk about our marketing and our branding, all the stuff, but there are going to be people that have a fixed mindset, God forbid, that don't understand all the things that aren't thinking about all the things, but they're out taking action and they're going to get results versus someone who has the perfect mindset, who has all the education, who understands all these concepts, but isn't doing anything, they get nothing. It is a balance of both, but you have to take action. Don't get analysis paralysis, don't sit here and listen to dozens and dozens of podcasts every day and listen to webinars and read the books and then don't do anything with them. You've got to go take action. I love that you shared that and I want to be a good student of your time because when we're coming up on time, we were too busy catching up at the beginning of this, so I want to ask you one last question and we ask this of all of our guests and that's if you could just give one tip to mortgage professionals today to go out to use to build their business. What would it be? Grab a pen and a paper, first thing in the morning when you're still a little in your dream state uninhibited and write out this sentence. I wish I could and fill in the blanks. What is the burning desire on your heart? You want to double your business, you want to move to a different country like what really? What's the pipe dream on your heart? And then listen for the butt that pops up, I wish I could but and then fill in the blanks. Be okay with whatever follows, just write it all out. Here's all the reasons why I can't or why I'm not or whatever. And then evaluate because everything that comes after but is fear. It's fear. We allow fear to dictate our choices so often and essentially, I can't because is me defending the limitation of my mind. And so I always say like, if you say I can't because and you fill in the blanks, you're also getting intimate with your fear and there's nothing wrong with it. Every single human being experiences fear. Nobody we admire was camera ready when they started. So I always like to say that I can't means I won't because it means I'm unwilling to figure out how. So it's not a matter of what we can. It's a matter of whether we're willing and the only difference between us and anyone out there that's thriving right now, running business or living the life that we want for ourselves, the only difference is their decision to do it. It's the it's the delta between where we are where we want to go as a decision and we can't wait for the fear to go away. Just take the action anyway and for sure get in the room. I mean, hopefully you're already in Phil's mastermind. It's like get in the room with people that remind you of your future. Anytime with the people that are dreaming and doing not complaining about what they can't control because anyone who's complaining about circumstances, they can't control and waiting for circumstances to change is going very slow or they're going backwards. So we've got to be willing to create our future in any environment and the fact that anyone is doing it means any of us can. There's really no difference and we're not special like you and I are not special. It's like we just face the fear found the right mentors took the action, found our next valley and then get with the right people to get you out of that valley and then you climb a little further and then you hit another valley. It's like this is not a straight line but it's worth it and I really just encourage everybody out there to get intimate with the fear and the story that's become the narrative that's become the excuse and then challenge it and then say what do I really want and am I willing and then hang around people that are doing it and you'll start doing it too. Thank you for joining us. This is the Mortgage Marketing Expert Podcast.