Valencia Grace + Kyle Stuart | Finding your artistic identity and building the right team

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Welcome to Unfamous, a podcast where we talk about the art of collaboration and collaboration of all kinds. Co-writers, co-creators. And in this episode, we have an artist, if you can believe that this person's an artist, and a manager. And instead of like the awkward podcast thing where I just like talk about what you guys have done in front of you, we make it like a really cute moment where you brag about each other. So you introduce each other to the audience and how you guys collaborate and all the amazing things that you've done and why you love each other. Would you like to introduce Kyle first? Absolutely. Okay, great. Kyle is a very, very amazing person and talented manager. Since working with him, he's been able to help me discover who I am as an artist. He works with famous rock band, Duran Duran. And. Kyle! We love it! Obsessed. No, this is crazy. Okay, Kyle, will you introduce Valencia to everyone? Valencia Grace is a total freak of nature. And, you know, she's a chameleon of sorts. And I've never seen an artist be able to sort of. shape-shift throughout her artistry so effortlessly like you do. And she's incredibly kind, collaborative, and so inviting when it comes to the worlds that she creates. And you're like one of the most insane world builders that I've ever seen in music. And it's because of you that you can help me do that, which has been amazing. I've worked with a lot of people, but no one who has. I literally feel like I've come into my own because of you. Your ideas are really brilliant. And I'm very lucky that I've caught you now in your career, because one day he's going to be in the newspapers for, like, being the best manager. Good things, I hope. God, this is how artists should look. God damn it. This is a star. Just really basic question, because I actually don't know this answer. How did you guys find each other? Yeah, so I work at Magus Entertainment. So the management company. The management company that I work for. And Wendy Laster, who's the founder, and then I work with on Valencia with, she got an email from Valencia's agent, Winston Simone at Paladin, about Valencia, all her material, and Wendy sent it over. Sorry, the tea's done. It's so amazing. It's just so good. I'm sorry. Right to the nozzle. Yes. So it was just like an introduction through the. Yeah, Wendy sent me the email and just was like, what do you think? And I think it was the video for Super Elastic, which we got sent over. And, yeah, I mean, it was pretty, like, instant. I was like, let's meet with her. Cool. Yeah. Yeah, no, let me jump in. I was, like, alone. It was just me. I wasn't, I didn't have, like, a team around me at this point. I, well, it's, I guess, tricky to talk about. But I was looking to. To grow the team again. And, but I had a period of time on my, on my own. And so I got to figure out who I was. And I got the music. I figured out, like, aesthetically what I wanted to do. And then I started making videos. And then was, I started, like, building this new world. And then it was just, like, the first thing I thought was, okay, I need to do shows. So I found an agent. And then he's amazing. Cool. Winston Simone. And then I said, okay, well, it's really important that we find a good manager. I had such a great flow with my creative team that it was really, really important finding someone who was like-minded, who didn't, like, interrupt the flow. Yeah. But, and could add to it. And then, oh my goodness, like, the jackpot. Yeah. Seriously. Did the, and I'm going to ask, like, super, like, inside baseball questions, because I'm hoping that people that watch us are trying to, like, figure out how do you get in the industry, right? Like, because it's such a mystery. So how did you, who emailed the management company that Kyle works for to connect the dots? Or did you just, like, cold email them? Or how did that happen? It was Winston. So your agent. Winston and Wendy knew each other. And they were, they were good friends. Was there a moment you remember where it clicked of, like, oh, yeah, we have to work together? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we, we met for, like, a period of a few months. Before we, like, made it official. Oh, that's smart. No, that was amazing. I, like, something that I really appreciated about them was because I had gone through, like, some teams before. It was very important to me not to rush it. And they just completely gave me grace to, um, the date. Slow burn. Slow burn relationship. Yeah. And I think the, when it clicked, you came to the office. And she, she already had a line of shows booked up, which we just did this past March. But when we started meeting, it was less. It's crazy that that was literally the show run that we, wow. But it was last summer that we started talking about it. And she came with, like, you came with a set list of what it was going to look like. A list of songs, rather. Yeah. Yeah. And she just kind of gave it to me and was just like, what do you think? And I said, well, just let me listen through the whole thing and just, just give me a second. Yeah. And. He went, I have the set list. I have the set list. Here's the order. She, she let me tweak it so hardcore. And I just said, I think this is what you should do. But like, take this, do whatever you want with it. And then you just kind of like immediately were like, yeah. It was, it was Kyle. So I like, I mean, I'm such a believer of allowing space for the people that I work with and collaborate with. Because like, you're really good at your job. I'm gonna. Do my job and I'll let you do yours. And we can, you know, like lift each other up that way. So I kind of was like, here's the songs that I, um, I envisioned me playing. Yeah. And then he came up with the whole concept of it being like different acts. And that then inspired me. So I could, I could go on, like, even about like, I'm thinking about album stuff or even future albums, like projects, like even him telling me or asking me. Like, what do you want your mic to look like? I didn't even know that I could like decorate my mic. I don't know why. And, and so you really just, yeah, you opened up just from doing the set list. Like, that's how inspiring you are. Oh, thanks. I mean, that, but that is, that is not, it's rare that there's management that is giving creative feedback that the act, that the artist actually likes because in my band days. In my artist days, I had a couple of different managers and there was one early on who had some good creative ideas, but there was no business infrastructure. He didn't work for a management company. It, so on the business side, it was a disaster. And then the main manager I had for a long time, all of his creative ideas were the worst things I've ever heard, but he had like a proper business background and blah, blah, blah, blah. So the fact that you have both and you respect both and a manager is very rare. It's the jackpot, the jackpot. I'm so lucky. And I'm so lucky that I got in before someone else did. Before the papers. Before he's in the news. No, seriously. And I will jump in and say, so Kyle is my brother. We have been in cahoots since birth. The voice of God is Morgan. The show, the podcast co-creator and producer. Exactly. But I will say, you know, anytime Kyle is exploring working with a new artist, I am always one of the first people to get in. Get all of the links to all of the work. And Valencia, from the moment he heard, he was like, oh my God, Morgan, like this, this is the artist. Like this is the artist I've been waiting for. And to watch him just immediately know, like intuitively in his gut, like this, this is the person I know that I'm going to be passionate about. And then watch them slowly have those conversations, like and make sure that they're, you know, personality wise aligned and then creatively aligned and strategically aligned. has been like a really fun, exciting thing to like watch develop into what they've created now yeah when what how do you know for both of you when something feels like authentically valencia grace because the world you're building is so specific but it's so expansive so like i'll start with you valencia like how do you know like okay this idea is right for me and then kyle to follow that up like how do you know like this does because sometimes artists no matter how great we are sometimes we have an idea that actually doesn't fit into the world and we need those collaborators to help us stay in there so for both of you to answer that question how do you know when something's like okay this is the right thing to do propel fitness water with gatorade electrolytes zero sugar and vitamins propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self what propels you propel with gatorade electrolytes i just like come up with it and then that's it i mean honestly best answer yeah like that's how me if you love it you love it like i like this project and like who i'm developing into or what i'm developing into is so authentically me i'm i like have ideas for everything and they always end up being the video or the thing yeah and then it always ends up looking exactly the way i envisioned it yeah i just i really have a great team of people that's that's what it is it's it's fine it's a team of people who who really understand you and i guess your question is what is valencia grace i don't know what would you say i don't think there's how do you know i don't think there's ever been a moment yet or I've been like no or like I think even even actually before we officially started working together she would come to the office every now and then or like we do brunch or whatever and we were in Seaport in New York and we like went for a little stroll and we sat on a bench and she was just like okay I'm going to see CJ her producer next week and I have this song that I have an idea for and let me just sing it to you and she's saying me like you're a star on a bench oh my god and that is so like pop opera cuckoo bananas ass pop song and she was singing it to me and I was just like fucking hell like you're fucking crazy as fuck and at any time and she does that all the time now too even with slut she facetimed me like immediately after she got out of that session with CJ and and played me the demo and that sounded different it's so everything she's done so far is like it's not obviously I'm biased but I don't feel like she's chasing any trends really it's like in her own space so yeah I don't think I've had that moment with her yet where I've been like no I also think that we're at the start of developing Valencia Grace and so they're kind of it's like the world is really our oyster right and it will become more redefined yeah exactly how did you when did like the pop meets opera thing be like okay this is it okay I like really know how that started and it's because I'm not a belter so like I used to say that I was like an alto mezzo and I never sang high because I couldn't and and then I realized that all I could do was falsetto and but that's boring and also I thought I had like or boring if you do it too much I'm like so and also so falsetto is like weak and so I was like how do I make this more interesting so I kind of just started having fun and also like I'm a theater kid so it's it's in me to be dramatic and to be weird and you know like I auditioned for like Beauty and the Beast when I was a kid I auditioned for Gaston so I auditioned like this my song like I I just loved putting voices in did you land the role I did now when it's on YouTube no it's on YouTube like I'm just gonna say like I used to go to YADA Youth Academy of Dramatic Arts in when I lived in LA yeah and shout out to YADA because I am who I am today looking the way that I am because of you and I'm like I'm gonna do it again I'm gonna do it and it was just this musical theater school and I've done like over 30 productions I was always like the male lead because I had a low voice right until I learned that I could do this like low voice but yeah yeah when I auditioned for Annie I just assumed they were gonna cast me as Annie and I was deeply upset who did you got Burt Healy the radio host hey hobo man I was deeply obsessed but theater did change my life and I went to an arts high school as well yeah and that is why I'm the person that I am 100% it's just the best yeah it's the best and I think that a lot of people I even I had someone's mother tell me like my kid isn't in musical theater and they're getting bullied for it so like what like what do you think of that and I'm like girl like I'm so theatrical and like if if you're a musical theater and you're a musical theater and you're a like daughter likes listening to music I'm like listen to my music and understand that it is so cool yeah to love musical theater to love the arts it is not cringy well also I have been nothing's come out yet but I've been lucky enough to be working on a few musicals writing musicals is the hardest thing in the world it is the deepest level of collaboration there's like a hundred people involved it is like it's I love pop music it's obviously changed my life but writing a pop song is so fucking easy to try to write a musical it's like musical theater is if people think it's cringy it's just like then you're just boring exactly you're just boring whimsy in your life and you can't like it's not my fault you can't suspend disbelief and that you're upset that they started singing you know what I mean like well there's music playing at the fucking Ralph's so why can't there be music mid-conversation god damn it um I have a question Morgan wrote this question I really really like it because I think it's interesting very interesting I'm just going to read the question directly normally I try to phrase it like I'm not reading it but this one I don't want to mess it up so I'm just going to say it how has bringing friends family and partners into the artistry changed the emotional energy of the work obviously like Morgan has worked on some stuff with you guys and their siblings like how has bringing these close relationships into your art made it feel better worse no I have my answer I so you can stop talking let me finish thank you so much and and basically no so I when I was first I'm not I'm independent now but when I was first with the label we I was getting like directors like or photographers or writers whoever like given through kind of the world and the company of the label pitched at you yeah pitched to me pre-approved yeah or like they they do a lot of stuff with the label and then I my first manager um he told me that and I thought it was ridiculously unfair but it's the truth but it it's that normally artists like tour with their friends like bring their friends to support them or you end up having a band that's like with your friends or you end up finding your friends and then you end up having a band that's like with your friends and then you end up finding your friends and then you end up having a band that's like with your friends or you end up your creative team and it takes time and hearing that as someone who doesn't have that you're like well that's not fair because I don't have that right how do I find that yeah and it really has taken me this long yeah um it changes everything having your friends propel fitness water with gatorade electrolytes zero sugar and vitamins propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self what propels you propel with gatorade electrolytes in your team yeah like all of my all of my creative team it's not like through a label like I found these people in you know in the woods I captured them I put them in little boxes and now they're mine your fairies my little fairies yeah yes it truly changes everything and it's one of the most frustrating things as an artist to hear especially as someone who's starting out because that doesn't give me anything yeah but it really just is that yeah you just got to be patient and know that if you are being authentically yourself you are going to attract people who are in who are also like-minded yeah and then yeah like I found in my partner my boyfriend who I do my all of my music videos with like he wasn't even a director when I first met him and he said one day like I really want to be a director I said okay you're a director direct my music video and they're really good so good he's doing an amazing job he's so good he's insane yeah he's one of the most talented directors and photographers and how does it feel to be directed by your boy to be directed by Mr. Billy Cole Landers it's amazing I think that it we also cuz we're like involved romantically we have to learn how to respect each other professionally so it also I guess like helps us learn how to respect each other you know like we're working professionally and also in front of people and but we're also both really young so we're just learning how to be had to look after each other and to be supportive and healthy I guess and also shout out to one of the few straight male directors I've ever worked with who goes in with no fucking ego and actually truly collaborates like he really is such a gem no he's he's spectacular and I'm I'm so excited to see what he's going to do and what we're gonna keep doing together so I'm just excited to get bigger budgets I can't wait to have more money and I will say that like even just going back to earlier like I am super careful when it comes to like giving out creative sort of input when it comes to the artist just because I I don't know as a manager I don't want to overstep too much on that front but like she is so inviting in these worlds that she creates so like even when we talked about the set list like I didn't it really feel hesitant to do that. Like you did make me feel super comfortable. And I think in terms of how all these other collaborations have come about, like, yeah, you just offer up so much space to other people and like, you know, have allowed me to bring Morgan in for like the slut video and then also the voodoo video. And one of my best friends in the whole entire world, Alex Young, who's an amazing designer. He, he created her spine mic for her tour, this insane with Kenna, who's your friend and who's also amazing. But yeah, it's just been really cool to be able to, I don't know, just bring all these freaks together and, and have it go really well. Cause that can be a fine line to walk when you're bringing in friends and family and other people. You never really know how it's going to go, but it's been pretty, pretty seamless so far. So it's really cool. And Valencia, a little lesbian birdie named Morgan told me that, um, you are gonna, you're going to play a song for us on this gorgeous antique piano. Well, I felt like it's only right. I mean, it would be, it'd be disrespectful to not kind of rude. Yeah. Very rude of me. Very rude. Okay. Great. Any lies? Is it just me that can see it in their eyes? How many are unnoticed? We buried to move on. So little of the secrets will ever be heard. I remember playing outside. He was a father and I was five. How does it feel to hear my grown self say you're free? How does it feel to hear my grown self say for me, they stay. you're free? for me, they stay. for me, they stay. for me, they stay. a little kiss before you go. And then there was one in DC when we both accidentally looked at the right time and we kissed on stage and everyone went, ooh. So that is a big difference of managing an emergent artist. Oh my God, if I did that to Simon Le Bon, I think I'd literally just die. It was amazing. Valencia, for you, when you went from a label, right, which when we're young musicians, we all think a label is the answer to every problem. Well, because you don't know anything about the music industry unless you either really make the effort to learn about it or you're in it. Yeah, so you think labels it. And so when you went from being a label to independent, how did that emotionally feel for you? And what do you think it meant for your career? I remember brainstorming ways of how I could call a label a label. I remember brainstorming ways of how I could call a label a label a label. And I remember brainstorming ways of how I could call a label a label. And I remember brainstorming ways of how I could call a label. That's what I'm trying to say. But I need also like in terms of like knowing which song to put out, like timeframe wise, it was December, not like last December, but before. And so this was pre-Magus. Like a year and a half ago. A year and a half ago. And we, so I went, okay, first person I thought about, C.J. Barron. Shout out C.J. Barron. We love you. He, I reached out to him. Did you know him? I, so I was following the, just quickly on how I know him. I was following the portals, Melanie Martinez's album, Roll Out. And I just thought it was spectacular. And so I was, I was curious. I followed it. When the record came out, I just thought, wow, I've never heard these sounds before. Like production approached in this way before. And I was immediately in this beautiful, beautiful, beautiful universe. And I loved the way that Melanie's vocal was done as well. And I just was like, who is it? So I was C.J. Barron. So I followed him on Instagram, did the whole like Instagram flirting thing, you know, and that we connected. And then I did a session with him and then, but I couldn't like afford him. It's all like, oh my gosh, Melanie, I'm sorry. Someone Venmo'd it. Oh my gosh. But like, I couldn't afford it. I couldn't afford it. I couldn't afford him. And that's just like it. Like, even if you connect with someone, you love someone, like also the reality is that like things cost a lot and I couldn't, I just, it wasn't, stars did not align. And then I got dropped by everyone you could possibly imagine and was left completely alone. And he was the first person I thought about. And then I reached out to him and then we wrote. So then back to the timeline, we wrote, I, so I got like dropped and everything in October. November was like, you know, calling CJ and figuring, you know, like let's book this. When are you free? December, he was free. We had like a five day session. The first day we wrote, everything reminds me of you. The second day we wrote the Holy Trinity. The third day we wrote on repeat. The fourth day we wrote Petal and the Thorn. Petal and the Thorn is so beautiful, by the way. It is so good. I listened to it this morning and blown away. Thank you. That one, she gets a time live. We can't, you know, we're not putting her out yet. It's not the time yet, but I really appreciate that. It is, it is, it is so beautiful and spooky and gorgeous. But yeah, no. So, so the timeline, like we were literally, we had these like five, four. I actually ended up only being three, wasn't it? So everything reminds me of you on repeat in the Holy Trinity. I would then have to go, we'd put out a song. It would have to be whatever the song we wrote in the session was. And it, but luckily it was, you know, they, we had really good chemistry. Yeah. So. Um, we liked the songs and, um, then I put out a song, go, oh shit, need a new one. I'd come back here, write a new one, put it out. I'd go, okay, shit, time for a new one. And then whilst doing that, we'd be prep prepping. Cause I do videos for everything. We'd be prepping the videos and everything of the next one while the other one was rolling out. It was in sane, but like, that's also why, like there wasn't really much say on what came out next because I only had. I was done what was done, but like now what's next. What's after voodoo. I don't think we know yet. I have no idea. We actually have some songs now. There's like, they're piling up now. You know, I got some bitches to write about some shit has happened recently. Stare the camera down. Yeah. Give it to them. Yeah. Is there a moment that both of you can. Yeah. Think of in your careers, doesn't have to be together, but in your careers that. Like you look back and you can't believe you did that. Cause it was like a huge mistake, but you grow from it and you learn. Cause I think again, trying to help people, hope people learn from this podcast. Like, is there something you do that? Oh, that was total, like an industry faux pas or a creative faux pas or something that you're like, I can't believe I did that. No, you're both perfect. Okay. Next question. I think I've had so many fuck ups. I mean, I've fucked up so many times. I don't think there's been anything like monumental. Otherwise I don't think I'd be sitting here right now, but, um, I, yeah, there's been so many times, like the industry moves so fucking quickly and your head will just be spinning around and around and it's so hard to keep up sometimes. And like, unfortunately sometimes you will just like drop the ball. Or, or, or forget to do something. And listen, yeah, that's, that's happened many times. I'm not perfect at all. And you just, I think you kind of just have to fuck up in order to do better next time. There's one little, I don't know, little tiny mistake that I'm thinking of right now where I booked her flights to go to London for a show. And I accidentally put her stage name, Valencia Grace on all her flight info. And I was, she couldn't get on the plane. Well, it was the whole thing. It was just, it was just a whole thing. So don't make that mistake, please. It's really. It's really annoying, especially, it's just, you can't go through. We figured it out though. Yeah, we did. I'm so sorry. No, it's okay, it happens, it happens. Yeah, I don't really, I don't know, mistakes are like what you learn. I'm very, like, I will never answer the question, like, what would you say to your younger self if you blah, blah, blah. Like, I would not say anything. Like, I'm, I, maybe I just don't understand the question, but like, I just think that we are here because of all the things we had to learn. Somehow. Yeah. It's also a great way to learn about conflict resolution, and that really teaches you, like, if, like, a, you know, partnership is compatible, like, that's so important to learn from. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. This is a question we ask every episode, which is, what was the song or movie or musical or whatever it was in your life that ruined your life and you were like, oh, fuck, now I must be an artist, I must work in the arts. Yeah. What was the thing that was like, oh, well, that's it, now this is what I have to do for the rest of my life, no matter how torturous it is? You want to go first? No, you go. Okay, so I don't have a single song, but the whole entire soundtrack for The O.C. Oh my god, are you straight? Like, low key, maybe. No, but literally, that soundtrack, I don't care. It's so fucking good. No, it's very good. It's just very bro-y, so that's why I'm surprised. Is it bro-y? It's like straight girl, it's like straight girl slash bro-y adjacent, yes. Well, I was, I was. California, yeah, who's, that's for bro. Not like, yeah, that theme. Great song. Totally. Great song. But when I think about The O.C., also, like, I was, I think I was like eight years old when that came out, and Morgan and, like, all her high school friends would watch it in the basement, and I would, like, sneak in the basement and watch it. Behind the couch, but that's how I first found out about, uh, like, Imogen Heep, Daft Punk, The Killers. Okay, that's awesome, never mind, never mind. Like, I- That's a lot chiquer than I thought, to be honest. Yeah, totally. I wasn't giving The O.C. credit that it was due. And the way they utilized the songs in the context of the TV show, it just, like, I was like, holy shit, I didn't know I could, like, feel like this, but- I love that. I always credit that as the reason why I work in the industry. I mean, that's the, that's the, I love that a lot, actually. Yeah. I think my, my only, my main connection to, to The O.C. is that the original guitar player in my band was definitely having, like, a mental breakdown and watched the entire series of The O.C., like, four times in a row. I do that, too. Yes. So, and he is known to like some very bro-y music, so that's what, that's what washed over me when you said that, so apologies. That's okay. I didn't know there was Imogen Heep in The Killers. Yeah. And I take- Oh my god. That was an insane moment with Hide and Seek, and SNL did this amazing spoof off of it where, like, Marisa Cooper shoots Ryan's brother, and it's, like, just so stupid, and it's so amazing, and you feel so many things, but yeah, it's, the soundtrack is so good. Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do my homework- You have to. -so I can be more respectful to your answer. It's so good. Do you have your answer, Valencia? Shrek the Musical. I love Shrek the Musical. Wait, who wrote Shrek, who wrote the songs to Shrek the Musical? Someone needs to Google, someone Google. I don't know that. I need to know this answer. I actually spoke, 'cause the, I did a podcast, it was the, the one with, um, the- Uh, the Audio Technical Club podcast? Yeah, yeah, that was great, because he knew all the lore about, like, everyone- She knew everything. Yeah, I was like, "Shrek the Musical," he went, "Don't you love-?" And I was like, "Okay, well." Wow. Yeah, no, sure- To be honest, I'm a big, huge theater fan, but I actually did not know there was a Shrek the Musical. I've pulled it up, and it's, the composer is Jeanine Tesori, and- And the lyricist and book writer is David Lindsay-Aber. Okay. I, I, again, more, I have more homework here. The OC in Shrek the Musical. Story of my life. Keeping you on your toes. What is it about Shrek the Musical that connects with you so deeply? Did you play Shrek? No. 'Cause you said you played all the male roles. I played Fagin. Which one? Wait, is that his? No, no, no, wait, wait, that's an Oliver. Lord Farquaad. Yeah. I was like, there's a character named. What'd you call him? Yeah. This podcast is over. no see i was i was fagan who was the male i was lord farquaad i was on my knees god how old were you playing lord what's his name farquaad i was under the age 11 oh my god yeah it's just like does he the one with like the weird yes what a present surprise he's like you know walks on his knees so while you were playing the lord you were like that's it i'm gonna make music till the day i fucking die and it was actually like okay so maybe this isn't this is just i'm just really really inspired by um shrek the musical there's a the verse like the original version that of like the broadway like the first show it's on um it's on netflix i think or at least it's on youtube and i love it because it's a story about someone who feels different and they don't have any friends and they meet like other freaks and that was me i was eating my lunch at school for a period of time with my like in the bathroom with my feet up like hiding hiding yeah it was fucking embarrassing no that's fabulous i think anyone who had friends like before they were 16 is not cool i know i just think that's a i mean i started having friends at theater camp when i was i guess 12 but like if you if you had friends at like normal school at the age of nine you suck weird that's just weird weirdo weird behavior okay shrek the musical i'm gonna i'm gonna do my i'm gonna do my research i'm gonna do my research i don't know i mean i guess i just found i found it during the lockdown was when i was properly listening to it and i was like it just got me through it like i know the whole soundtrack and like the songs are really good there's um like princess fiona she knows she grows up in a tower so she was like a there's a song and it's like i know it's today like i know i'm gonna get out today and it's a like baby her and then she extends the note and goes around the tower and then as she's extending the note the older one comes out at the you know and then it's just so cool oh like the time lapse yeah i know it's today and then it's an older person playing fiona there's a princess any princess okay that's so god i will i will do my homework they're all like me i love it um speaking of pop operas um you are building your own pop opera and you're taking your live show to lollapalooza yes tell me about that creatively and then kyle i want to know from you when you're the the difference of an artist doing a show on their normal tour versus the festival what what what logistically goes into that so for you valencia creatively what are you thinking differently for lollapalooza and don't know spoilers but just in terms of the creative process or spoilers if you want but um no um i um okay let me let me think about how to answer this so as as i'm putting out all these singles i'm that i'm like just discovering myself quite literally like before everyone's eyes like i haven't had this character developed for a while or anything so i'm i'm uh i'm discovering who who who this is and with every video um i'm in every song i'm slowly starting to even get inspired about like album territory and so what i'm doing now is figuring out how to implement um little the storyline and create the storyline yeah so that when you look back you can see the birth of you know this whatever character i end up coming up with for the album yeah um whatever character um but yeah again my ideas are quite like i'm very whimsical and like i i have a lot of crazy things that i really want to do and again it costs so much so i mean yeah it's it's that's i know i keep saying it but that's really just it like i'm just trying to figure out how to make my world a better place and i'm just trying to figure out how to make my world a better place how does dreams come true with the you know little exposure that i have you know we talked about this yesterday because um me and flinthia wrote together yesterday that's my camera we wrote together yesterday it was amazing um i played the stage that you're playing at lollapalooza i played it in 2010 i am so honored um it's it was it was a pretty iconic life-changing moment for me and that stage the bmi stage at lollapalooza has like changed a lot of people's lives um so i can't wait to see what it does for you oh thank you it's a really special stage it's really cool yeah yeah just like knowing that lore and getting to go on that same stage knowing that you did all that crazy shit it's so cool you are going to possess me through the stage yes many people were injured many uh lots of insurance policies went through the roof i'm not kidding you can look it up gaga came to our set unannounced we didn't know she was coming and she stage dove off of it which at the peak of her fame this is 2010 uh so many uh we got lots of press for it but her manager at the time was like amazing press moment thank you however our insurance policies just like doubled i was like it wasn't even her show she was just partying she was partying at 4 p.m why does that affect i don't know that's more that's more here so now as a manager worried that you're an artist is going to ruin their insurance policies yes how do you how do you think about a festival gig versus a normal gig i think this one's interesting because we've only done shows like in just sort of little venues where like she goes on at 10 p.m and you're like in an enclosed space control it gets controlled and i think we've we've kind of started talking about the logistics actually controlled i'm sorry i'm thinking about that like girl who fell on stage that's true some girl got really drunk on the first show of this tour just fell on stage fell onto stage onto the stage on my small tiny stage she was at my feet a star a legend girl yeah rock and roll yeah there you go it's punk but um yeah i mean we've started talking about the logistics of this one and the creative and there's definitely things that we'll have to adjust because it is it is going to be sort of an iteration of the super elastic pop opera show it's just evolving it's evolving and morphing so and then you know again she's playing outside like at 1 p.m and daylight so there's a lot of things that were involved in the original show that we'll be talking about in the next episode we'll just have to be tweaked but we'll probably become cooler and more interesting and greater because of that i love it yeah yeah and it's it's um i don't know if you've had much time in chicago but it's lala palooza is so special because it's one of the rare festivals that are like in the heart of the city so you actually can like it's not like coachella where you are stranded it's like you can like just go to like a really nice restaurant and when i say nice i don't mean expensive unless that's your vibe but as we've learned from this conversation she needs money i was just gonna say but it's like the whole city's right there right it's a really special festival it's it's really really cool i think there's something really cool too about someone like you in a full valencia or dot look in the daylight fucking daylight that's so fucked up and like so wrong that it's just going to be so amazing yeah and those fans that are going to be there they don't fucking care that it's broad daylight they're going to be thrilled yeah yeah yeah because this will i'm i'm like this will be my first time wearing um the wig the wig on on a festival stage yeah it's not a wig look out for look out for the not a wig everybody get excited um okay so to end every episode we play a game called gag or drag um you both speak the lingo so i don't have to explain it to you but for anyone who's watching this for the first time gag means you love it drag means you hate it okay so gag or drag rebranding so hard people think you're a different person gag i would say gag it's a total gag yeah yeah great um gag or drag being called too theatrical for the mainstream music business gag being called too theatrical yeah yeah like you love it because fuck that okay i was like hearing that yeah okay gag yeah no i mean i i was hearing what you were hearing too but i like that you flipped it you're like you know call me two three yeah yeah too much of everything girl like like theater's just this is just the tip yeah i was hearing it more like she's just too i'm like fuck you yeah but even if yeah yeah gag people hating me okay there you go yeah okay gag um industry gatekeepers showing up after it's already working drag wait one more time industry gatekeepers showing up after it's like after something's already it's already killing it yeah fuck off yeah yeah okay great um uh oh i didn't i somehow missed this one i pre-read these more and i really like this gag or drag pronouns in your bio changing how people hear your music whoa your sister's deep over there honey changing how people view your music drag as in like i wouldn't want people to see my pronouns in my bio and then not like my music yeah um is that is that what that means i personally i think it's a gag because it is it's the right people finding your music and connecting with it and then realizing that like especially we so valencia and i have had some conversations about understanding like who they are and valencia has been leading with they them pronouns and we went to a show chrissy shout out but there were so many people who were running up to valencia and it was like queer people trans people non-binary people being like are you valencia grace i know you are like like what you're doing putting out queer music i'm like really connecting with so i think it's a gag for the queer community yeah also drag if people are negative i see what you're saying but totally gag because it's like yeah bitch i am a day then yeah and you like my music how about that you know then then then oh yeah people who like have have an issue with that they're like well funk i guess yeah this one we've already addressed but i'm going to say it again because you love it so deeply gag or drag shrek the musical yes that will definitely be like the the um what do you call it the teaser yeah that'll make sure people watch the episode and it'll get people sending you venmo's yeah um gag or drag gag or drag men who are blonde as adults you are the biggest fucking bitch i've ever met i really love it i think he looks so hot first of all i was born a blonde white hair what'd you say i said yes you were what'd you say yeah she said born a blonde no you know i can relate to you on this moment i i was platinum until i was about 33 platinum not even blonde platinum and darian darling makeup artist visionary who's sitting right here um darian is still upset with me that i no longer bleach my hair she still thinks i've betrayed her and that we were like a duo looked i mean we looked amazing yeah and so but i feel once well first of all once i saw this silver coming i love silver i was like all right i'm just not gonna deal with it yeah also my hair is proudly thinning i love getting old i'm not gonna fucking touch anything i'm gonna let myself get as old as possible visually emotionally run down um but also i do have the feeling of like there's like this thing you're still way younger than me this thing of like people who used to be rock stars who no longer are right even though i'm a rock star in my own world i'm not a rock star on stage and anyone who used to be a rock star who's still bleaching their hair makes me like want to like do like a 5150 so i just can't do that for myself this was a 5150 but you know i yeah i honestly thought i would never do it again because i was i went to like pitch black hair essentially and i just yeah i didn't want to touch my hair but i was just like fuck it let me bleach a sliver of my eyebrow and put some skunk in my hair and would i like and then i'll turn 30 and then i'll stop what i like the most about this is that a lot of times our gag or drag questions end up not being rapid fire and i like that um morgan insulting you via gag or drag question ended up being our most discussed yes our most discussed topic um gag or drag your artist answering a facetime meeting painted completely green without warning oh my god morgan she knows too much oh my god because i was i was shrek i was she literally went on tiktok live painted herself green and performed the whole shrek the musical i'm shaving my face what was it it must have been before a zoom call or something yeah and she facetimes me and she's just fucking green girl oh my god it was really fun um i mean it sounds very fun what was what was there an actual meeting after the face after this no it was just just i obviously had a free day um gag or drag dressing for the lore instead of practicality good yeah of course i literally wanted to throw up putting this on yeah and that's how you know it's good yeah now i'm comfortable but like oh my god when you're like cold trying to get dressed and like then the thought of putting on a wig but then you're like once you put it on and you relax into it then it's it's iconic and the wig does make you feel like you're wearing a wig and you're like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm warm yeah yeah um gag or drag making art that would have scared your younger self gag yeah yeah yeah complete gag yeah um i mean i think about that even for myself as a pop songwriter you know not every day do i get to work with people as experimental and fabulous as you are a lot of it's super down the middle which i'm very grateful for because it provides for me and my whole family so no shade for down the middle pop but it would have terrified my younger self my two different versions of my younger self and i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god the theater kid would have like pop music you're disgusting you're a sellout and then the glam punk version of me would have been like pop music you're disgusting you're a sellout so even when i make pop songs it scares my younger self and i think that that's a good thing yeah yeah um gag or drag trans rights yeah imagine if you're like actually i came here i came here today i don't know why i came here today i don't know why i came here today no comment no comment no comment i literally arrived in a in the protect the dolls yeah last question is what would you say what advice would you both give from your different perspectives so what advice would you give to a young artist on how to better collaborate with their manager and what advice would you give to a young manager on how to better collaborate with their artists or actually vice versa what would you tell a manager to do better or what would you tell an artist to do better what advice would you give to a young long story not short people who are really desperate to have a manager but don't understand what that dynamic means or people who are desperate to be a manager and don't understand what that means what is some advice that you two have learned in your both short exciting careers that you think could help other people i think on my end as a manager i think it's still something that i'm figuring out like what that dynamic i love that honesty that's awesome is supposed to be a dynamic and i think it also will always sort of differ depending on clients but i think the best advice that i could offer really is is kind of the way that we started to work together was really actually like a slow burn and like really getting to know each other i i think not jumping in immediately is i don't know it's like a relationship it's like you don't want to like go right in right away and like you don't want a u-haul time to drag morgan yeah you don't want a u-haul over here clocky tuna tar tar morgan but i think i think keep going yeah what else kiss me i i think i i think also even just what we were talking about about being scared like hell i'm scared all the damn time and like to appear to be completely honest i mean it is a scary gig and i think you know you just always want to do the best you can for these artists and also yourself and it's fucking terrifying like it's so scary but you just kind of have to bulldoze through it but in terms of advice i would just say get to know the fucking artist yeah first and um just make sure you actually are clicking on the link in the description before you start working together absolutely what i would say is to the managers that if you are not 1 000 million percent passionate about the artist do give them the grace to go and find someone who is because then you are unfortunately going to waste each other's time i think you need to what i've learned is that the only times that it really starts to work is when the people around you and who you put as your team are like as invested in it as you are and you have to think or I at least I think about Valencia Grace not anymore being just me but like we are we are all Valencia Grace yeah um and it's so it's like if you as a manager are ready to take on the role of like being an artist or like helping this artist out yeah um and then and then like yeah there's any sliver of doubt don't do it yeah don't do it um and then for artists I would say my biggest piece of advice is to trust your intuition and also something that I've been doing for a long time is to trust your intuition and also something that I've been really helped me with you was like ask asking around and like asking other people like because when I first met um them both um uh Wendy was you know taking the lead in in the conversation and I was getting to know her and um I knew that I would be working with Kyle but I I decided or I couldn't work out how to get through to him and so I then you know went to someone's show and then bumped into some people and I I oh you were talking to yeah yeah I'm talking to Kyle he's really great I'm like okay tell me about him like what like what's so great about him because I like don't I like I can't really tell I asked myself that I'm not I'm not getting the greatness vibe tell me I just like didn't get to speak to him yeah and so like not then also shout out Angela Barkin who was who you spoke to I love her to death and that's who told you all this absolutely and um yeah she was a great person and she was a great person and she was a great person and she told me to get have some one-on-one time with Kyle and and I really just trusted my intuition really I just could see like the same way that you see like start like a star you're like you're gonna be a star like I feel that way about him yeah and I didn't honestly know that you that you could have like such talented management wow so I think you just have to trust your intuition but again it's the manager's job to not commit if they're not 100% passionate I really love that point a lot because especially in in our current world where everything moves so fucking fast and the manager might go after an artist a writer or producer because one thing is going viral but we all know that unfortunately virality is not a business plan so if you're not obsessed with that artist writer producer whatever they do if when that virality falls off if you aren't obsessed with the art that they're making you're not gonna do your job well yeah because you were just showing up because something was exciting but now that something might not be exciting in four months and if you aren't obsessed with us get the fuck away absolutely yeah yeah yeah also listen to their ideas because it was like working with before we worked together you did the set list and I was like wow you you created these different acts that really inspired me the reason that the show has props and shit is because you fucking told me I could do that yeah so once you realize oh wow I'm getting something from working with you I'm learned like I'm learning uh or I'm being told stuff that no one's ever told me before and I really just got the feeling with him like oh my goodness I feel like no one else knows it the way that you do what I love about that too is like before you were officially working together you presented ideas that you actually liked yeah that a lot of times I've done it where you get into management relationships and there hasn't even really been business ideas presented or creative ideas presented it's just all this sort of very vague wishy-washy conversation and you're desperate so you don't know so the fact that there was actual ideas that you liked before you worked together is something I think a lot of people can learn from it wasn't even just like I'm passionate about you and I I think that whatever whatever it was here is the set list I think you should perform here's I'm gonna break it down and this is why these songs are like this and and you liked it and yeah and then also just you're so good uh this isn't your question but like an advice for like just artists and management teams because like I swear to god no one thinks like you and like it's so important to tell as many people but like you're so good with like fan engagement and interaction and just coming up with little fun things to give the fans or just bring them into the world I was never thinking about shit like that well you know what I think is really important and actually CJ Barron said this about about you um is that it's so rare to have a manager who is the fan base so many times it's you know especially specifically with pop pop coming from the feminine point of view that it's managed by an A&R'd by old straight men yeah and old straight men for the most part are never going to buy a ticket to your show and we don't need them to because the girls gays and theys are going to buy a ticket to your show right so to have a manager who is actually the demographic you're trying to sell your music to yeah that's also pretty lucky it's very fucking rare the amount of times that I have 60 year old straight men telling me what a 19 year old girl should be singing about I'm like I don't even tell her what to sing about right if if the artist isn't bringing it herself I'm gonna make sure there's another young woman in the room because that's who the fucking audience is not you grandpa yeah so it's it's yes you're really fucking good at your job and you're connecting with your artist but it's also like how smart to have a manager that's the actual demographic you're trying to engage with and one of the first things he said to me was like I really really want to find my pop diva my pop girly he said my pop girly yeah and I was like your pop I was like I really hope I can I can be that for you I'm so it really is just so special that we found each other yeah yeah I love it yeah I love it very lucky that was unfamous motherfuckers watch unfamous on spotify subscribe for no ads I'll see you there