Vagabonding in Paris, France w/ Rolf Potts | You Be Trippin' with Ari Shaffir

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No, we had a remote conversation about Israel. That's right. That's been our only non-imperson conversation. That's right, I was thinking about that too. That was for your podcast? That was for my podcast. It's called deviate with Rolf Potts. Which I've been on twice. Yeah. More than twice. Really? Yeah. I need to go back and listen to the one we did on souvenirs because I have this bag of rocks that I have to like mark and put in something and I've lost the memory of where they were from. I've lost the memory of all my rocks. Yeah. That one about travel has made me think about the Ruta da, whatever in Israel. Oh, right. That you did. No, I tried to walk from Nazareth to Jerusalem. I'd almost made it. I had to start hitchhiking. Yeah. But it got me thinking how there's like those hikes in so many countries. Yeah. These like multi-day hikes. You're just for a pilgrimage, but like just anything. Yeah. My Israel one was special because I sort of wanted to do it Jesus style. Yeah. No, I would have loved seeing those pictures of people carrying across the whole way. Oh, it was so weird. Jerusalem is such a weird city. It really is. Yeah. And no, it was. There was Jerusalem syndrome. Do you know Jerusalem syndrome? Yeah, well, you feel like Jesus once you're there. Or Moses, if that's your, if that's your proclivity. You just feel spiritual, right? Yeah. And then you decide that you need to stay on the street corner and screaming at people about how spiritual you are. I love Christians. Well, we're in Paris now. We're in Paris, barely. Yeah. Okay. No, but there's Paris syndrome too. Which is what? Well, people come to Paris. It's usually East Asian people. And they come to Paris and they have all these dreams built up about how wonderful Paris is. And then they smell dog piss in the alley. And they run into somebody who cheats them out of a few euros. Or they go down, they take a wrong turn. And they're in some area that's not very pretty. And they sort of have a nervous breakdown because. Interesting. Their expectation does not meet up to reality. It's called Paris syndrome. It was first diagnosed. Actually, I think it was diagnosed in the 60s. It's in my book. Actually, there's a chapter about. Well, there's a new book out right now. This is the advanced copy. The vagabons way. The vagabons way of follow up. Well, I don't know. A spiritual success sort of vagabony. Way, way longer of a read. So what you're saying is you haven't finished it yet. I have nothing. I read the other one in the fucking two days. And I'm on a beach. This one is taking me weeks out. Hopefully the young people will keep up with this one. But actually, you're in this and you haven't even read your chapter yet. Can I guess what the quote is? Sure. Yeah. Is it, um, don't be an asshole? No. Oh, okay. It's more zen. It makes you sound really smart. Oh, yeah. It makes you sound really profound. Hell yes. I don't know if I can give it away now. No, by the time this comes out, I will have read it and I will say what it is. Unless you want to talk about it. That can be part of your intro. Right. Um, but I didn't want to point out that we've actually, you've been on my podcast like three or four times because you bought me mushrooms on one of our podcast recording sessions. A true Los Angeles live. I texted it or made a call. Yeah. That's right. A mushroom deal. And for you, that's no big deal. But at the time, I had never done it before. Right. And so then the next season, my next season began with a sort of breaking down how the mushrooms experience went. Yeah. And so, uh, yeah. So not only have we had podcast sessions, we've had drug deal podcast sessions. Have you done all this? Yeah. You like them? I do. Thumbs up. And that was part of our conversation. I sort of, I sort of grew up in the middle of the country and I was, you know, the people who used drugs to me seemed like you losers weren't headed anywhere. And so I sort of was very arm's length about it. Yeah. And then I had conversations with you. And then Tim Ferris, who's actually done a lot of science with mushrooms. And then finally, it's like, well, yeah, okay. I'll do them. And you bought them. You bought my first set of mushrooms. That's nice. On live on a podcast. And that happened. The better for everywhere. This, I mean, we can talk about psychedelics on this podcast, but, but, uh, we can talk about Paris and travel as well. Yeah. We're in Paris. I'm here. I've never, you know, how you're like, do you talk about how you're like drawn to certain places? Yeah. We're in Italy. Yeah. I've just never been drawn to France or Paris. I was the same way. You and I have a backstory for Asia. Both of us have been to tons of Asia places before Paris. I dirtbagged all through Asia before I came to Paris for the first time. Yeah. I talked to Luis Cica. I was like, tell him I was taking this trip. And he was like, my first time in Paris. Because first time, I thought you'd travel. I'm like, yeah, I goes, but you haven't met a Paris. And I'm like, I don't know, man. No. It's such an American thing. We're very Eurocentric, right? And so people assume, I think especially people who are born into sort of the privilege of travel, like their parents traveled and stuff, then Europe is where you go. It's where you go for finishing school or whatever. It's where you go for a study abroad. It's a privilege travel. In a certain sense, you know, well, it's just too, it costs too much. It costs too much. Yeah. And so literally, I've been around the world. I've been to Paris many times because I teach a class here, but I've never been in Norway ever. Right? Well, when you're a dirtbag backpacker, $10 for a beer, are you kidding me? Yeah, no way. I could live for a day in Thailand. I could have three meals for that price. So my wife has Norwegian cousins, so we're going there after this. And it'll be a first. And so I'm sort of in this second half of life phase of my travel career. We're actually afford to go places. I don't have to sleep in a hostel. And that's exciting, too. That's the cool thing about going to, you know, either going to a place for the first time or coming back with money and having both the dirtbag experience and the sort of. It's way different. Long. I mean, I, my friends always call me cheap, just because of the racial parts of it. And also, because maybe I forgot about that. You know, that's a stereotype, right? Are Jews still cheap? Yeah. I would not let that go. Midwesterners are cheap. It's weird. I was in Scotland. And there were like somebody was like, Scots are cheap. And I was like, yeah, they go like, yeah, we have a joke. Like, how was the copper wire invented? And I was like, I've heard this joke. It was go ahead. And they were like, two Scots fighting over a fence. I'm like, that's not the way I heard it. It's not it all the way I heard it. So this makes the Scots the Jews of Britannia. Yeah, I think so. The Jews of Britain. Yeah, but more fighting. The Scots are. Scots are tougher. Okay. But in the cheapness aspect, I guess. No, I think there's northern Europeanness to this, because my mom is of like northern German extraction. And they just don't spend money on things at all. Yeah. Which could be like, if you go out with that. Holocaust shit too, or it's like, it's like defeated peoples. So were the Jews not considered cheap before the Holocaust? I think they were. I don't know. Maybe it's sort of being an outsider community. Like sort of, it's the whole diaspora thing. Well, in Chinatown, they say the Chinatown Bank in New York has the most wealth of any Bank in America. Because the Chinese people, the immigrants, they save. All they do is put it in the bank. Right. They don't have a zero about they're just like put it in there, put it in there, put it in there. And I don't know where that comes from. This could be your travel book. You should look like looking at the anthropology of cheapness. Yeah. You know, you could take it, take away the Jewish stereotype and just say there's an anthropological reason why this happens. Yeah. I'll call it. It's not just us. Right. Well, there's, I talk about Benjamin of Tadella in the book. Have you gotten to the Benjamin of Tadella? Like the great Jewish traveler from the Middle Ages? Yeah. Yeah. He actually traveled from. I saw Levi was in there. Something Levi. Levi? Oh, Levi Strauss. Levi Strauss. Levi Strauss. The anthropologist. Yeah. No, but Benjamin of Tadella. He was from Spain. He was a Spanish Jew. And he made his way. He made it probably to Baghdad. But every city had a Jewish community. Even back then. It was a thousand years ago. Maybe a little less than a thousand years ago. And so his travel account and what I talk about in the book is that by the time we got to Baghdad, suddenly India is way more exciting than Baghdad, which is more exciting than Marseille, he didn't go to India and he didn't go to China, and so he's basically saying, well in India, they embalmed their their dead with spices and you can see your great grandmother and sit with her and as if she was alive. Well, he just heard that about these places. And so in China, it's like to protect themselves against riffens, sailors pretend to be seals. My point being is that my point being in this book is that his stories were great about places he had not been the places he had been he sort of had to be honest about what he saw there. And so usually in the cities he went to it's like, oh, well the Jews live like this in Marseille or they live like this in Beirut, like this in Baghdad. And then suddenly things got really technicolour in India and China because he didn't actually go. So literally he actually go, well he was just telling stories about what it's like because he heard things. So basically he was talking to sailors in Baghdad or Basra who were saying, yeah, I went to India and they embalmed people with spices and you can sit in a room with your embalmed great grandmother. Well, that's probably not true. Right, or these things like it's I guess, but not I asked, I was talking to a friend of mine at New York County Club and I just saw on my calendar were scheduling something and I saw battle the boy is a day. Okay, calendar some of my UK calendar stuff still in there. Point, how do you spell that? B-O-Y-N-E. Oh, I don't know that. Yeah. And anyway, so then we saw this Irish comedian from Ireland. And I was like, hey, what are you doing tomorrow for battle the boy and she was like, the what? And I was like battle the boy and she goes, oh, why did you hear that? I'm like, I don't know what is it? She goes, I don't really know. But the idea that they all know everything about. Is it specific to Ireland or specifically to the UK? I think it's Ireland, but it might be the UK, I'm not really sure. But the idea that it's like they do this. Why is that maybe it was going to be a battle that the Irish lost? I think it might have been. I don't know. But when you hear about it, it's like, oh, they do that there. It's like, no, they have done it there. Were there a consistent, they do that there. Well, certainly there's, there's, well, I know you live in New York. So I've never seen somebody get pushed on the subway. Right. But that's the thing they do there. Right. Yeah. Now, well, that's, that's what travel on peels, you know, that I'm sure, I don't know what laws. You're, you're in Paris for the first time, right? Yep. So what stereotypes are you bringing to Paris? I haven't seen the rudeness. Okay. No, I have seen it a couple times on the plane was the first one. Really? Yeah, the playing of the guy was immediate like that stewardess guy was a strong word. He was like, "Black up!" With the same emotions. Were you on air, France? Yeah. Okay. He was just over it. Yeah. Well, it's got to be stressful to be a flat tenant in this day and age. And then one restaurant a little bit where it was just like, but I think it was also like a burn-in-term place where it was just like, "Oh, it's a tourist. They don't care." Generally, they've been very friendly and nice. Yeah, we found that too. And in fact, there's this stereotype that French people are really bad about responding to English. If you try to want to speak English, they want to have nothing to do with you. But I think if you throw out the bonjour, you know, if you make it clear that you're being respectful, but you don't know the language, but you are respecting and apologizing, then they're like, "Oh, how can I help you?" You know, I've heard that. I've also just had people just break it and they get it when they just break in English when I've tried to be like, "May I have in France?" And they're just like, "Hey, it's one cup." Has Spanish come out of your mouth since you've been here? Yeah. Every time I've been in Spanish speaking countries before I come here, I open my mouth. I'm trying to speak French and it's just Spanish is coming out. Yeah. Any, it's like a non-this place word. So it's "Hablar" comes out too much. Yeah. When, what's the "Parler Bouve?" What's, how do you say, "I don't speak French?" Do you speak it? Jean-Paul French. I know another way to say it. Jean-Paul, "Parler Bouve." Jean-Né, "Parler." Oh, yeah. Jean-Né. I don't. Jean-Né is don't. Yeah. Jean-Né, "Parler." Oh, "Parler." Okay. Yeah, I try and then "Hablar" just comes out. Yeah. Yeah. People don't stink. Right, I'm tripping. The horrible stereotypes about French people. Well, they do walk around with baguettes under their arms. They do. It's pretty cool to see that. Yeah, yeah. But not with Berets. Berets are gone. Berets are done. They're shorts. Like, you're wearing pants. I'm wearing pants. I assume they're really wearing shorts as a tourist in this town. Yeah. So this is what I do. You talk about this a little bit in this book. I just got to this section. I was breaking into today's episode to let you know a little bit about the guest's role of pause. My favorite travel writer. My favorite writing teacher. He's got a, well, this, okay, I don't know where to start. He's got a travel writing memoir class in Paris. It was every year that that's where I was when we did this episode. You should take the class. Small-brained American took it. Bolton bankruptcy took it. I took it. It's great. Like, it's legitimately. It's just a great way to get your writing together. And just like, and first of all, it's just so praying. It's just like this amazing literary journey through an amazing city of Paris every year. You should sign up for it if you think about it at all. If you have memoirs to write travel or otherwise. And it's just a sick way to spend two weeks in this in just an amazing city. ParisRidingWorkshops.com is the website. Sign up for it. He's also a writer of two of my favorite books. Vagabonding that I first read and it got to know him on an island in Cambodia. I read it and I was like, "Oh, I'm, I mean, I was already doing long-term travel right then." But it just like unlocked every detail. And it actually, and the Vagabond's way, this book, this episode's all about that as we move through Paris. If you're watching, if you're listening to this one on Spotify, by the way, to head to YouTube, more than any other episode you've ever done. This is one that we did all over the city of Paris. It really gives you a look of what that city is. And the Vagabond's way, it's just, it's one page per day, 365, 366. No, 365 in a quarter. Days, just a fun thing. I was 15 of those little chapters in. You can skip around. 15 chapters into that. And I was like, "I got to get lost again." But the Vagabonding gave me something that I used for this podcast, more than anything, which is there's a piece on it. It's like 10% getting ready to travel, 80% traveling, 10% coming back. And the 10% coming back, it had this thing where it said that no one's going to be interested in your travels. Just get ready for that. No one's going to be as interested as you are in these amazing places you've been. Oh, what a fucking cool dog in the back of a pickup truck. I mean, even this, if you're watching right now, even this, you tell somebody, how is Patagonia? It was amazing. I was maybe going to be the title of the podcast. It was amazing. That's where everyone says, "The views, you couldn't wrap your head around it." And you can't. You can't. And so you tell people about this and go, "Oh, wow, cool. Yeah, no, I took a drive once in the Midwest." It was really like, "No, don't change your fucking subject." The few people are interested. South Alcano will sit there and listen to every detail I have about a trip. And he's interested. Would you eat? How, my God, that's crazy. What did it taste like? Tell him, "How'd you load? Let's try that." I would never try any pick. I would never try Chantacuros. Beetle larva. Anyway, I'm interested. I'm interested in talking about my own travels, but also in hearing about other people's travels. So is Rolf. So that get ready to have nobody listen to your stuff? Well, that's what this podcast is all about. I'm one of the people who are interested. Please tell me about it. Anyway, take his writing workshop in Paris. It's crazy. I think Chad might have done it too. Chad Wallen. ParisWritingWorkshops.com. Sign up. It's in the summertime. It's just a magical time to be in Paris. I'm definitely going to go back. They have a beginner class and they have an advanced class. I took the beginner because that's all I could work out. And I got a ton out of it. I mean, it helped my stand up and helped with the writing that I'm still trying to get done, just immensely. Then you guys, I don't know. If you're looking for something to do, also it's so fun. You meet other people. You meet other crazy travelers who have tails themselves, and they're all just trying to express it. God, I can't wait to get this book of stories out for you guys. Anyway, let's get back to the episode. Please sign up, episode 99. This episode, maybe you know, it's a dead week. And why I made you like, there's no real point to put out anything this week because everyone's often between Christmas and New Year's. And I was like, well, let me put up one of my classic skeptic episodes, which is this, that maybe people don't know about, and it fits perfectly well with travel. So this is the first one. I'm going to do that every year. That's it, everybody. Next week, we're going to have the Trippi Awards. The 2025 Trippi Awards, the award winners will be out next week or the week after. Probably next week. Hawk, this Hawk's everywhere here. It's crazy. You see him once in a while ripping fucking some animal some poor sucker Just ripping them apart and they're just cash. They fly and you look down the whole time like who can I kill? By the way, this is my whole fucking drive every day. It's been seven days already of just this. It's getting better and better As I drive so All right, let's get back to the episode. It's a Paris Yeah, also I've got stuff. Please subscribe or wherever you're watching or listening YouTube Spotify. I think those are the only places and Take Ralph's take Ralph's class. It really is crazy. By the way, this is fucking every direction. Actually, let me show you here. This is fucking every direction There's nowhere where this fucking view is not crazy. Okay back to the episode sorry to break in for so long But I had to tell you about Ralph's class, and his two great books vagabonding and the vagabond's way. There's also Marker pull it in go there souvenir I didn't read Marker pull it in go there, but I have her souvenirs. It's also very cool. It's with whatever anyway That's it guys follow Ralph Pots on Instagram. Oh, listen to his podcast, which I've been on a couple times deviate with Ralph Pots Start with my episodes deviate with Ralph Pots. God. I don't know how to push that more. All right. Bye everybody back to the episode back to Paris back to Ralph Pots Look at this. I mean if I zoom in it doesn't get any worse. It just gets better and better Damn. Oh fuck eight minutes. Okay back to the episode again the book is the vagabond's way by a roll-pots out now on Valentine books. Yeah, in bookstores everywhere. What's that? There'll be an audio book of it They're really not a book. I haven't recorded as of this as of this session. I have not recorded the audio book yet, so I Did a chapter of my friend's book same talent. He had different comedians read different chapters Mm-hmm, and the feedback was comedians don't know how to read Okay, because we're all doing it for the first time. We're like reading it after reading it No, it's a different it's a different vernacular It's a different kind of thing and one challenge I'll have with this book and like I was just saying some French words horribly just now This book is full of foreign places and words and so I went to hire an assistant to help me pronounce all like it's one thing to see them on the page Yeah, or to read a his a travel history and then realize it. Oh, this is an Arabic word How do you actually pronounce the syllables in this way? Yeah, so It is a well we can talk about says we go. I say we go out in France. Sorry Paris and Both work. Just do this. Yeah, just do this as we go and like see a little if you're watching on YouTube Come come visit Paris with us And we'll just do this as we go. There's like this is a travel tip a day It's pretty much right for Yeah, but it's not like where to get a baguette and France type travel tips. It's more existential and conceptual stuff It's like this is your only life if you want to travel This is maybe why you should travel when you come to another country This is sure you can buy you know a baguette in the store or souvenir, but maybe you should Get off of the tourist Assumptions and do things that you would that would surprise you yeah, so here is yeah It's great. It really has already gotten me like the fever back to like get the fuck out of town There was something in here that I saw that that It is talk about cultures and stuff like that instead of Fuck out what it was instead of like looking at a sub-dude make a dude I'm not in here like I don't know around the courier If I saw dick so we're in like a fifth floor French apartment We can sort of see in the many people's houses here. We really can't I was walk around naked after my shower And there was a cross the street as other people just smoking out there. I'm like well, I could see them perfectly No, and actually that's That's a weird thing about walking at night in a city like this is that you sort of have a window into people's lives As you walk down the street because we these people don't live with big lawns around their houses I guess in New York like similar. I mean, I've seen people fucking. Okay. Yeah, I pulled up a stoop across the street I pretend to type my phone just looking at people on the first floor with windows wide open And what have you been seeing fucking like this? I must have been yeah, I must have been you just do the math on that Yeah, you begin to wonder are there buildings taller than your window anywhere nearby you then yeah, you've been seen Right. Yeah, anyway, here's what I was gonna say was something about I forget how it came up But it made me think of this how you have to look at the customs and stuff So one of the things I do is how do they dress in blank? Like Dominican Republic. They don't wear shorts, right? Yeah, and so I was like oh shit So I don't want to be an outsider. Yeah, it's the same thing here And it's only because I'm wearing t-shirt. It's because my other one is thinking now, right, but no Print t-shirts. Well, I wore a button up. Yeah, just you know because we're gonna be out and about in Paris and you got to wear a Button up and roll out the sleeves. Well, I don't know if the rolling up the sleeves is a thing But that's what I did because it's a little warm today. They said Parisians would they don't wear short sleeve button downs They would wear long sleeves and just roll up if they have to know what they say like in America We have casual Fridays. Oh, and not only we may I read this in a book that was published 20 years ago But not only is that not a thing here that but like someone who has like a New York level of casualness is either American or they are mentally ill in Paris Like there's no either it's a tourist who is like that Casual or they are a crazy person who's walking around the street with their shorts and their t-shirt that says go mavericks or whatever Right. Yeah, it said it said My husband was in Myanmar. We're like This like army guy was like followers around talking to us in English a little bit broken English Uh-huh, and we're like humoring him. We just got chased away from like a like an army Just like hold up or something like that. They were like get the fuck at whatever they were like in no uncertain terms like you got to leave All right, anyway, it's just guy kept talking to us and we're like trying to humor him. And then at some point we're sitting in a restaurant. He's with us And some other guy comes over. He's like that's men He is a fool Like oh, he's half retarded. So it's a crazy guy. Yeah, I'm like, I don't know wonder he's talking to us. Huh? You just found an old army jacket. Well good for him. Yeah, he got it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah And he probably he probably Maybe in a culture like that tourists are kinder to him, you know, that they don't know that he's Minnally handicapped or whatever and so they they he likes that, you know, he's he's humored that yeah In his neighborhood people are tired of him. So Crazy stories and it's like visions. Yeah, yeah, but I read here no shorts If you have to wear a t-shirt It cannot have any writing on it or no bright graphics. So I only pack plain t-shirts. Yeah I suspect that's changing because I've seen so many NBA stores here. Have you noticed that? Uh-huh, especially when I'm in little Africa. Okay. We're saying a little West Africa That could be a multi-cultural aspect of the city that that As immigrant communities become more a part of the French mainstream It's less formal in that old European way and so I have literally seen like three stores in this neighborhood that just sell NBA gear Yeah, and there's more French people Borsdia and like there's a few French basketball players. Yeah, well, they they play pretty well in the Olympics the French national team does Pretty well because they play together we have infighting just like in America in all aspects of our lives, right? Maybe that'll unite us is what once we start really losing in the Olympics. We did it just like hate the Olympics That doesn't mean anything. It's crazy to the end that the America would never just crush in basketball Well, this is a famous. I mean basketball is close to my heart because James Naysmith wrote the rules of basketball in my home Stating Kansas and Kansas is the reigning national champion champions of the NCAA but Actually, I'm an Olympics nerd. So I know this 1972 the Russians won for the first time ever nobody got close to beating the Americans Then there's sort of a shady British referee. You can look this up And he basically they have the Russians a second inbound when the game was over Like the inbound of the ball missed the basket and the game was over Americans are celebrating you can find this on YouTube What and then and then this ref is like no, no, no, no and That has to be replayed so they did another inbound through the ball all the way up the court the guy laid it in Russians beat the Americans 1972 on the bigs first time by one By one. Yeah, I think it's before the three-point shot. Wait, wait What he was on the take? I Don't know. I don't know and I'm sorry for any Brits in the audience, but it was something was suspicious That this supposedly neutral well, I don't know is the Cold War. So maybe the British guy was was citing I don't know what happened, but it was a really weird. It's never been explained why the Russians needed it It was a reason reason for another new inbound To the not Wikipedia could tell us. I'm sure but for for an insane reason they decided to give them a second chance and they won And since then we've lost the gold many times now. No, but once we got the dream team in 92 Yes, in 92 there was I think 88. Oh, hey, we're actually gonna use pros. Yeah, and then it was like game over right It was who's gonna win the silver was the question right What why didn't that maintain I mean when you see who's you see the other players are teams like they'll have two NBA players and we have 12 of the 15 best players Yeah So like, how in the fuck do they lose? I don't know, I haven't followed the Olympics closely. How did it go in the last Olympics? America won, right? I don't know. We lost once, I remember in like the Pan Am game or something like the some like some non, like, Olympic, and then we lost to Puerto Rico once this is like 10 or 12 years ago. Those guys know how to play as a team. Well, no, yeah, seriously, well, this is the metaphor. This could save America as if we lose enough Olympic sports that we should be winning. It may make us realize, well, maybe we should be a little bit less. Maybe people may not necessarily like, we're starting like, actually, we should use trams. If we're going to get some goals, maybe it's actually good ideas. I was thinking, instead of good pick, right? As long as they can post happen. And, uh, dude, I had this secret play. I had to do my buddy's D. Renaissance, he wouldn't pick up. It's like, not illegal, but it's just for, we just, we just give a nod. It's the Princeton backdoor. Um, I don't know the Princeton actor. You just like baskets over there. Mm-hmm. You, you, like, you'll go out to get out, to get an outlet. Pass and then the, it'll defend. It'll be too close, but I will not intend to throw it. Defender sees, oh, I can get that. So we'll make a stab at it and you just take off towards a basket. So it's a fake pass. Fake pass and drive the drive that drive it. Yeah, when it's 10, 10, you got one point to go. Nice. Just like you look at Steve and I was like, Hey, oh, guys, let's go to the left side. And it's just, it's an easy to every time. All right. If you're a former high school basketball star, I tell it like it is. Um, I guess, you know, who's cool? That's right. Uh, some of you might have the wrong answer here. No, it's not because he had sex with his maid and had a child with her and raised him as if it was his full blooded marriage child. It's because it, while he was dealing with all these smoke and cigars, Arnold Schwarzenegger smokes cigars. 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Yeah, we're definitely we're short. We've got our jeans. We're going to be sweating a little bit. Yeah, we're going to be sweating a little bit. We're going to be flinering. We've told you and I have talked about flinering. I love it. I tell everybody about it. Yeah, I'm not going to try to pronounce it. Describe it. Oh, well, it's when you're walking through the city, not in a utilitarian way, from point A to point B, but just seeking experience. You're walking and you're sort of following the mood of the city through the city, looking for something new. And metaphor, one metaphor that's been used a famous book was written by Edmond White, who's a gay author, and he says it's like cruising. But instead of cruising for dudes, you're cruising for experiences. And you're just walking through the city, not because this is the main boulevard because I want to go to the Sean Zalize, but I'm just going to walk through the city and see what catches my and follow that instead. And so we can do that a little bit. I have some ideas for what we can set up. It's like, it's also if you have a direction, like eventually I'm going to head up over there. But then if you're not in a rush, which you always are in New York, where it's like, what's this street? And then you're like, I'll cut back eventually. And it's a good traveler strategy because there's all these prescriptions. Oh, if you're in Paris, you have to go to this place. You have to go to this restaurant, you have to go to this park. Uh-huh. But if you're, if you allow yourself to Flannure, and this was invented in France in the, in the 19th century, it was sort of aristocratic men, you know, but now it's a tool that anybody can use. Just, just let go of your expectations, let go of where you think you're supposed to go. And just, if this catches your eye, follow it. Do you still do the thing we asked your students to follow a color? The city. Yeah. Hey, I tried that in New York, yeah, it was a lot of crossing back and forth on the street. Really, it was like yellow. I was like, oh, there's a sign that we get there. Oh, there's another one. And you're like, oh, okay, there it is again. And then like, not the same one, but it's always, but it's like, we never went further than a block. Yeah. No, that's color tracking. It's psychogeography that also comes from Paris. The idea, it's called the Delive. It's the, uh, it's the drift. You drift to the city and you play games with the city. And so instead of just following the tourist map, you follow the color pink or you follow something interesting. My wife and I saw, there's all these, um, the Chattanoire. Have you seen it? The black cat, that famous picture like that, um, art nouveau era picture of the black cat and every tourist shop has that picture. And I'm going to, I'm going to go off camera real quick because we bought a shot glass of one of those of the, because they're everywhere. Yeah. What is that from? I don't know. Actually, we need to look this up, but it just, we realized that our psychological strategy for Paris was finding pictures of this cat. And if you're in a tourist district, I swear to you, every tourist shop in Paris has a postcard. Yeah, I've seen a, like, like a, like a, like a wall, a cigarette, um, I'll let you hold back. It's like the most borrowed, um, sense of like space and, uh, what's it called? It's like an old, maybe an art nouveau poster or, yeah, it's a, it's a historical poster that's like over a hundred years old, but it's so popular. It's like the scream or other, yeah, famous pieces of art or, or, like the Mona Lisa, right? But I swear to you, this is our psychological strategy the last few days. You can't find a, uh, souvenir shop in Paris without this on something. Wow. It's on socks. It's on cigarette cases. It's on t shirts. It's, it's on everything. Shot glasses, by the way, besides you for the lark of it, but like who the fuck is doing so many shots at home? Like just right out of college, fucking idiot is buying shot glasses. Well, it's required. That's it. Yeah. No, we actually, my wife and I are going to use this shot glass. So what besides a candle holder? Well, no, we might use it to mix cocktails or to humor our guests or something. It is good for her measure. It's a good measure. But yeah, no, we don't line up shots back home. Yeah. Now, this is, yeah, what is the culture? Well, actually, it is a majoring advice. Certainly, this was invented and actually my wife was just here. She was talking about her Norwegian relatives drink aquavit out of a wooden shot glass that they strap to their neck with a leather strap. So I think shots are about measuring it, right. So you have the liquor in a glass. I'm spitballing here. I don't know this for sure. But it's like you, you can't drink too much. So this paces your liquor consumption, right? I sure, but you're going to have that at home. It's just weird and it's and it's a standard for merch is the shot glass. But I know when I know, ever use a shot glasses at home, I've used shot glasses before. I am sorry, but I mean, Kansas truck. Not in the regular sense. But no, I wrote a book about souvenirs as you know. And shot glasses sell because they're small. Yeah, because you can fit them in your bag and sometimes they're kind of funny. And you give them to your friend. It's like great. And then you put them on a shelf and they stay there forever. They're good for the like the, haha, thanks. And that's it. That's all they need to be there for. Maybe yeah, this could be it's a weird souvenir that's always a t-shirt. I get you can wear that forever. Yeah, no t-shirts are great. No shot glasses. There's probably people with like houses full of old shot glasses that they never use. Yeah, they should create a holiday like a special day where you actually use your shot glasses. Like were you create a social event where you're forced to use your souvenir shot glasses. Burning man. That would be nice to bring. Burning man. But for shots. I'll do this when you take my shot glass. Yeah, that's like the janky burning man instead of building sculptures and doing mushrooms or something. There was a big fair in 1974. Thank you. Here you go. You just do a shot. You actually buy specific booze. Now here's the question. Do you buy fancy booze or just like low shelf booze for a shot holiday? Right. Interesting. So I brought my friend, Jojo Rossoe, opened up a sandwich shop/bar. And I got him some Mama Wana from Dominican Republic. I don't even know what that is. It's a bunch of sticks and flavored twigs and amice and whatever. And you put a little bit of wine. So there's a liqueur. It's a drink. Yeah, it's a drink. And a little honey. And then you let it sit for about two weeks, shake it up a few times. So I was like, hey, you can use this in your bar. I mean, you couldn't sell it. And then he figured out he's like, oh, we need to have like a section of shots from around the world. Okay. And so now he has a whole section of like, and so that sits in it. So people are like, oh, okay. Now it's a selling point. But that's a shot. Mama Wana would be a shot. I like the shot around the world. Like, it needs to be a pretext to do something interesting or just a challenge to do something irresponsible. So I like that. I keep talking. It feels like you want to leave, Ari. No, I do. But this is also interesting. Are we grinding? Are we going to edit some of this out? No, we're not doing anything. Like our first podcast went four and a half fucking hours, dude. That was, that was too long. That was the gold standard. We don't go that long. Yeah. But we stuck in Tomkin Square Park. That one, this one, we're going to go all over the city of Paris. Maybe we'll see. We'll see. We'll see what happens if it doesn't work out of it. if you've got stuff to self-conscious, then we'll just come back here. But let's go, Flanora, let's go explore a little bit. - Let's go Flanora, some shit out. - Yeah, you can tell, this will spark whatever. But anyway, the book, guys, I'm too, so well, we'll talk about the chapters are later, but I'm, I think it's a simple day, January 29th, January 30th, January 31st, February 1st. One page each, you'll talk about it somewhere else. - Sure, yeah. - It's 366 pages, one for each day of the year, has a quote about travel and a reflection about travel. And it's, but it's not just about what things to buy in the city. It's like, how travel can change your life, basically. Why you should travel, if you've dropped about travel, why should travel now? - This is why I'm gonna ask you about later. There's a uncertainty about travel that affects, so he starts with a quote, you love travel writers. More than anyone I know, you love travel writers. I know, but I mean, you love comedians, right? - I know, but I'm a, but I don't watch as much stand-up as you re-travel. There's an uncertainty about travel that affects even season travelers. To travel is to make yourself vulnerable, leaving with your papers and plastic, the high-tech security of your home and wandering sumptuously among imperfect strangers. You know what I wrote that? - Thomas Swick. - Damn, dude, nice. - I'm buddies with Thomas Swick. - Yeah. - Really? You quoting, you know, one of your friends. - Yeah, or whatever, per crusher. - Yeah. - I am drunk. It's that, it's how to like, how to be in a place rather than a place. - I'd be vulnerable to a place. I think sort of in the social media culture we have now, everybody wants to be right all the time. Nobody wants to be vulnerable. Nobody wants to make mistakes and learn from them, unless they're performing making mistakes and learning from them. Whereas the best part of travel is just that you're an outsider. You don't know anything. And so if you can't embrace, you're not knowing. If you can't just sort of be willing to be an outsider who's sort of lost all the time, then travel isn't gonna be as rewarding. And that it sort of puts you into this child like state again. Something to this kid, you don't understand what people are saying. They're using these big words. You've studied your French and something. You can't really understand anybody beyond "Hello, how are you doing?" And then suddenly you're vulnerable to a place in a new way. And so I think as travelers, I hope even season travelers, and you and I are pretty seasoned travelers, of not losing that vulnerability where you are willing to just fuck up and learn from it and deepen your life. - This guy, I was buying a pouch of tobacco. And-- - Here in Paris. - Yeah, and I haven't. The last time I brought one was some Croatia, I think. A long, and that's the only other time. So I'm like, I don't know how to do it in this. So I'm like, Tabak, and I guess like, okay. And then like what, I asked him if he speaks English. He was Asian, so no. He speaks that, and then maybe, and then French. He goes, no, so he's like, got away through it, and he goes, "You want a lighter?" I'm like, "Oh yeah." - So you're at the Tabak. - The Tabak. - Yeah. - The tobacco shops are called Tabak, which kind? And I'm like, "Oh yeah." He goes, "This kind?" I'm like, "Sure, yeah, I'm not gonna fight you over it." 'Cause I don't know what I'm looking for. - Sorry to interrupt, but you are, your aim here is to become a smoker. You've gone your whole life without smoking. - Oh, no, no, I wasn't a smoker for a while. - Okay. - Just gonna go back to it. - Oh, you know about that Kentucky bird? - The finest. - The smoker. - Tabak up. He got me filters. - Yeah, dude, just French and shit, bro. Here's this book you told me about. Field notes, great. - Oh yeah. - No, I have one of those. - Anyway, at the end of it, yeah, I saw a post, and I need a durable notebook. This field notes thing is it. It's fucking, whatever. - Yeah. - That's great. - Did you find that in a store? - I don't know. - I took a lot of looking, and then I did find it in a store. - Those are great. I wrote to the people online. I was like, you make more of these, and they're like, no. And then I found it in a store, and I bought the shit load. - Good call. - Anyway, the end of it, tobacco, filters, lighter, papers. And then he goes like this, and I'm gonna shake his hand, and he was like, he was like, the credit card. (laughing) But you can either be really shitty about it, or you can be like, this is fun. Whatever, all right, fun mistake. - You were talking about the guy following you around in Myanmar, people told him, "Oh, that's the town fool." - Yeah. - Well, in a way, the tourists are the town fool. You get the privilege of being the fool all day long. - Laugh about it. - And then you're also seeing beautiful things and eating beautiful food, too. - Yeah. - On the road, away from our routines, our life becomes inseparable from possibility itself. Damn, dude, this shit is making me wanna get out there. But you're right, it's not a like, here's where to eat, and so and so, here's how much you should pay for weed and Denmark. - That's right, yeah. - It's just how to live out there. - Yeah, and it ties into that vagabondity of time wealth. It's like time is really all we own, and if you're not spending your time in a way that makes you happy and deepens your life, then think about it. Do you wanna travel, then do a travel, you know? People put off travel for bad reasons. They don't have enough money. They're scared of speaking other languages. I think you'll see, we have another week in Paris, I'm sorry, but my French is horrible, but I enjoy being here. And if you're willing to be a fool, if you're willing to not know, if you're willing to be in between spaces, it's a good thing. - Yeah. Yeah, I could fucking go into this a lot, but I'll do some of my favorite quotes later. All right, let's get out and fucking Paris. - All right, let's get outside. - Next stop, outdoors. - We are now at. - Hallelujah. - Yeah. - This is gorgeous. What do they do here? Is this the royal palace? - I have no idea. All right, this is the thing about like cities that you think you know pretty well, is that if we were in the fifth Aronde's Monoperas, I could. - How do you say it? - Aronde's Monoperas. - Okay. - And I'm probably mispronouncing, and I apologize in advance for everything I mispronounce in French, even though we're in France, and I've been here a long time. - Oh, those people don't apologize to them. (laughs) - No, but it's the pillar we're out. This is like the first, the second I was in this Monoperas, it's like on, this is the right bank. I know left bank of Paris. And that's the great thing about travel, is that you can go to a city multiple times and still know nothing about neighborhoods that you don't have a lot of experience in it. So obviously, this is a tourist friendly part of France, where there may be five minutes from the Louvre. - I've never been here before. - Really? - Yeah. I've ridden my bike outside many times with my bike. You know, they have these little village, little city bikes here. So this is, yeah, this is brand new to me, and I am ashamed as a travel writer to not really know what the Palais Royale is all about. - It's gotta be royal palace, right? - It's gotta have something to do with the monarchy years ago. 'Cause look at this. - Yeah, I mean, this is like, commoners can't live here. This is for the people. You know, I love doing classical art, which has really started here, right? And it's in a big way. - Well, in Italy, yeah. - Yeah. It's all rich people doing rich people shit. - Yeah. - It's all like lounging and stuff. It's never toiling. - Oh no. - Oh, rarely. - Yeah, actually, rich people doing rich people shit. It's very much a part of Paris. And I'm not an expert on this city, but I think one of the reputation for rude parisians or snobby parisians is that the upper class parisians sort of want nothing to do with tourists understandably. - Yeah. And, you know, the people that you end up running into on time like this were here in late July. Are gonna be in the service industry, probably. Everybody who can leave town is there in their, yeah, they're in their summer home someplace. - Yeah. - And so it's actually a pretty friendly time to be here. People try to speak English and they're open to you, but this was built by people who wanted nothing to do with tourists. - I mean, when you just think about, you ever see like pillars like this and just go like, how the fuck? Now I could see it, but like, how was this, before electricity, how was this built? - Well, I think they were trying to emulate the Greco-Romans, right? They're trying to emulate earlier generations. - That's what the fountain head is a lot about, where it's like quit trying to do what other people have done. - Is that an architect? - Yeah, it's the architectist, but it's really nothing about architecture. - Right. No, so I don't, actually, my wife and I have been wondering around the streets recently, and there's all these amazing cathedrals that are clearly not used as churches anymore, but there are hundreds of years old, often almost a thousand years old, at least the original edifice, and it was made to sort of give commoners a place to look up to, you know, like God is magnificent because of this cathedral building, and you go in, and it's, yeah, it serves a different function. I mean, now, stateside churches are like shopping malls, and there's a, you can get a latte at the outside and you're just at the bottom of a building. - Oh, is it? - Yeah, especially the Puerto Rican ones. It's just like, it would be a store, and it's just a church, and there's people live above. - Right, yeah, if I was a theologian, or if I was a social scientist, I could tell you why exactly it's shifted from, an edifice of power, a place like Notre Dame, which took them centuries to build, and it's beautiful. And actually, all the churches here are pretty beautiful, but they're also a little creepy and they're a little empty, and they're full of candles and really weird art. But that's from a time when if you didn't have much in life, you go to church and you saw this art that was amazing and a church that took 100 years to build, and it made you feel like you're in the presence of something greater than yourself. Whereas now you can go online and find anything, and so the mega churches have big display screens and rock bands, or in New York basements or whatever. - So. - It's easier. By the way, I took centuries to build Notre Dame, and it took Jews minutes to burn it back down. (laughing) - We called it Jesus too. So here's what I was gonna ask you though. So we found, without using your phone, we found kinda where you were aiming for the Palai de Royale. - Yeah, yeah. - What is it when you travel? There's this thing of learning a phrase that you can use over and over again. Like today, somebody asked me if everything was okay. a waitress and then I went inside to pay. I got from hand motions, go inside to pay, and then I was paying the major D or whatever, or the manager was said the same phrase, and I was like, oh, I know what that is now. - Like Ducco? - Ducco. - Is it Ducco? - Maybe. I've already lost it, but just in that second time, he said it, I was like, you're also asking me is everything okay? I get it in like, you know what I mean? - Right, yeah. - When you hear something enough times, there's a lot of-- - Well, you get this pattern. It's that state of deep ignorance that you have as a traveler, and you're just trying to find patterns that you find familiar. I think that's why people, they go into the loop and they go straight to the Mona Lisa, 'cause that's the only thing they know about art history is that that's where they're supposed to go. So pattern recognition, I think, is a big part of being a traveler, that you're looking, oh, there's a phrase, that phrase helped me last time. How can it help me this time? - Yeah. - And then, oh, I sort of recognize this neighborhood, or I ordered this in a cafe the last time, and it was pretty good. I saw this guy ordering this. And so there's some, there's sort of a sweet, hopeful possibility-filled ignorance in being a traveler in another culture, for sure. - But what I'm talking about is the joy you get from like, oh, I know how to get from my flat to here now, without looking at my map, or like, I got home from the canal, St. Martin canals. - Oh, you're out by the canals. - But it was like 10, 12 minute walk, but the first few times I'm like, I got lost, and I looked at my mouth, like, let me put away for three minutes, and I'm getting lost in those three minutes. But last night, I was like, no, I know how to get back. And it's just like, oh, cool. I know a little bit of this area now. It feels good. - I think allowing yourself to get lost allows yourself to learn where you are, right? If you're just always fine, your phone, and your phone is telling you what to do, you don't learn, you don't imprint on your hippocampus, how to actually find a place. - Right. - And so you don't learn the lesson. So, on every kind of the world, I've been lost enough to figure out where I am. - Right. - So being lost is good. It goes back to that vulnerability thing of sort of being able to make mistakes as a traveler, and makes you a better traveler, you know? - Yeah, it's almost like the mistakes is what you're looking for. They have this theory and comedy, where it's like if you go into a bad situation, like annoying, like a wedding, or if someone you don't wanna go to, or something like that, like well, at least you'll get a bit out of it. But like, you can't actually intentionally enter into a shitty situation just for a bit. - Right. - It has to be thrust upon you. - Well, there's a travel writing thing to that too that bad travels make better stories than good ones. - Yeah, right. - And so we're gonna go out and seek a misadventure. You're gonna make yourself vulnerable in a dangerous way. Are you going to fuck up all the time? Like how was the line between experience and a culture and sort of creating an incident that you can write about? So it happens in other ways too. That must be, it must be a common temptation as a comedian. - To like, to milk a given situation from material. It's a crazy lady on purpose, or like, yeah. - To go on the sixth date with the crazy lady, right? - Let me see how it teaches you goes. - Right. - We're normally, it's like, yeah, there's no way, but in that situation as well, there could be some material here. - Yeah. I think it's a way to justify bad decisions. Like, I'm already gonna make this, but I'm like, well, it's a tax write off, you know? - Right, right. - I didn't thought of that way. - You actually kind of ducked a shitty date when you're like, I'm definitely gonna write a bit about this. So like, I'll duck this for my, for my bill. - Oh, I didn't thought of it in those terms. Yeah, that date could be written off your taxes if it's a part of your bid. - Yeah. - I think, though too much, I was just talking to somebody about the travel writer Paul Theroux, you know, Paul Theroux. - I've heard of, I just named before, and I've seen a lot of you quoting him a lot. - Yeah, he's been on my podcast a couple of times. - The vagabond's way. And available in bookstores everywhere. No, but he is famously cranky as a travel writer. He's a curmudgeon, like, he doesn't like, he has opinions about everything. And I was just of the impression that, well, that's just, you know, that's how he travels. It's like, the worst thing you can be as a travel writer is a person without a point of view, you know, without an opinion. Like, it's trying to erase yourself from the narrative, doesn't really work because that's journalism. - That's journalism. Yeah, the travel writing is about being vulnerable and making those mistakes and showing yourself, well, Paul Theroux shows himself as sort of the guy who has an opinion about everything. But somebody explained to me that that is his persona, that person to person, he's actually a pretty sweet guy, but he's this more opinion guy who he pops more on the page. In his book, he's the guy who is expressing his impatience with his tour guide in China, whereas the, I would imagine the parallel and comedy is that you sort of have a persona too, you know, but it's not just you're going on the sixth date with the crazy lady for material. I'm not that I'm saying that you've done that before. But also you are, you're entering this heightened version of yourself, they're sort of this narrative R.I. that is the person to whom this has happened in life and it's not the same as the actual R.I. should fear, but it is the comedic persona R.I. and that's how without the parts where it's like, and I tipped him at the end, you know, you just leave that out. You just like, or it's also like wish fulfillment, where it's like, I wish I could have said this and this and this to him. So now I can, because I was having these thoughts, Paul Theroux was like, I'm having some of these thoughts. I'm also like, well, he didn't show me this place. That was really nice, but it's like, leave that out. It's not fun. - That's interesting. Yeah, no, I think it's a similar narrative persona. And I think this is obviously that we have social media personas where we're a little bit more handsome and a little bit smarter than we are in real time. - Oh, that's so much to talk about. - And so, and so you have your comedic persona where you're sort of more as cervic, you're more mean tempered than you are in real life. Travel writers are actually sometimes more smart, like all the stuff that I, like I don't know this, if I was to write an essay about this place, I'd do the research. - After the research and give it. I mean, that's one thing about one awkward part of talking to you in real time in France, which is when Paris, which is city, I feel like I know well, I'm mispronouncing phrases, you know, that there's still wide swaths of French, most of French that I understand at all. - Mutual mistakes. - And so I'm a very, yeah, it's weird. There's, my ratio of linguistic, you know, perfection to time spent in a place is pretty low here. Like my language skills are pretty low considering how much time I've spent here. Unfortunately, like most of the time I come here, I'm teaching travel writing in English to English speakers. And so I don't really have time to go and make those mistakes that a language learning needs to make. So my career in my Arabic, my Spanish is much better than my French, which is terrible. But that's part of being here. It's sort of fun to be optimistically ignorant of the language in a place that's interesting. - Yeah, you need to struggle through something. You need to have a guy to learn any part of the language. Dual language goes nice, for sure. Dual language, to me, is like, I'm learning Spanish a little bit through it, but like I've did about 10 days so far of French on dual-lingo. Just to learn a few things, it helps for sure. Fills in the gas, but it's like central park is like, I need to major. Central park, I buy you like two days of like knuckle crazy. - Right, right, right. - And then it's like, I actually have to get to the woods to get myself for like a month. - Right, like real nature. - So like dual-lingo is like, I really feel some gas. - Interesting. - But like you have to go and learn, make mistakes. - Or dual-lingo is a central park in this analogy. - Yes, exactly. Or having somebody there to translate for you, or having a guy who speaks English at a shop. It's like what you actually need is like, I don't speak any English. So in French or whatever language. And it's like, you're gonna have to struggle through this. And then you can like, learn a word or a phrase. - Well, they say that the best way to really learn language is preferably when your young go to a foreign country and fall in love, or like try to court someone you're attracted to. And like, if you can learn enough to start a conversation with a woman you consider cute, then that's just more impetus. Like if they, I took Spanish in high school. I was terrible at Spanish. If they just brought some cute Spanish speakers in. - The winner over them, yeah. - Right. Then it's like, oh, this is why you learn another language, right? So you come and maybe like, I'm here for the first time with my wife, right? And she's good. She studied dual-lingo before she came. When she was in Germany, she learned German. - Through that. - And so I think, what's that? - Through that app. - No, through a combination. Central Park and the forest, right? - Okay. - But I think it's actually through wanting to keep my wife's respect that I'm gonna become better at French because she's gonna outpace me in French very soon. Probably on this trip, her French is gonna be better than mine. Well, it's analogy, I think I was telling you before we started recording. It's just like, I spent a long time as a bachelor and I just never committed myself in a certain way. And I'm married at the right time, it all worked out. But in a certain sense, I haven't committed myself to Paris in a way that it also involves learning the language. And maybe now that I have committed myself to a woman in life, maybe now I'll commit myself to a language and maybe it'll be French, you know, that I can, you were talking about a unique-- - But you know Spanish, you know Korean? - Well, I have got my Spanish, I have got my Korean. I can impress people by reading a hongle, which is like you reading Hebrew, right? But that doesn't get me very far. My vocabulary in Korean is not very deep. - Hongle, is the language? - Yeah, it's the alphabet that they, it's very easy to learn. - What are you supposed to use this language to learn? - Korean, yeah, how many countries is speaking in? - Well, just Korea, but-- - And what a dumb thing to learn. - Well, I mean, Spanish, Arabic, English, of course, if you don't speak English already. I'm fond of Korean and this is the sad thing. - That's a English trick, yeah. - Is that I go to a Korean restaurant in America and I threw out some Korean and they just roll their eyes and start speaking English? - No, really? - Well, they don't laugh and we're like, cool. - Sometimes, like actually, I was in a story at Queens once and I went to a restaurant where there was an English on the menu and so I was ordering for the menu in Korean 'cause I could read it and understand. And that got this grudging respect that I wasn't just the moron who'd wandered in and they had to get the English language menu for him. And that was kind of fun. But usually, this is another thing about a culture where everybody is ethnically the same. Like they're, they're, they're, they're just Koreans and non-Koreans. There's not, it's not a multicultural country. And so to, for a white guy to walk in and start speaking Korean is a little bit weird. And if he's not fluent, then you're sort of wasting their time, you know, that they would rather practice their English on you than to bear your bad Korean. And so I have some friends who married Korean and speak it pretty well. But I just, it's nice when you say "thank you" or if you say "couple cop" or whatever and, and, and tie. Tie, tie. Nice. It's just like a little smile. Oh, yeah, but, but ties, tie is a little bit more laid-back culture too. And a little bit more friendly and conversational and formal. I don't know, I'm, I'm an expert on Asian cultures. But just in my experience, my cup, my cup, cup, cup goes further than my Kamsamnida in Korea. Yeah, just like. Because Koreans would rather practice their English than, than endure your horrible Korean, whereas ties are just rolling with it a little bit more. That, that's my experience. Guys, it's been so long since I've been to both of those places. This video series is going to say it's this white guy ordering Chinese from a drive-through in like fluent Mandarin or Cantonese. I think Mandarin. And, um, and then he gets to the front, you know, like you order and then you get to the front and the guy's like looking like who's the car? Like what the fuck? Then he's like, you said, then they go like, they bring people out like, come here. They can't get over it. We just don't see people like you speaking like that. There was a celebrity when I was in Korea. He didn't just, he married Korean, but his wife was from from South, the southern part of South Korea. She was from Busan and they have, it's like the Texas draw of Korea. So he learned Korean fluently, but he also spoke in this Busan satuti, this Busan dialect. And so it's like having an Asian celebrity in Kansas who speaks really deep southern draw. That's cool. Texas accent. And so people just loved the guy because he spoke vernacular Korean fluently. Um, usually that's not the case. Usually it's the American is trying to learn. It's hard to learn because Koreans would rather just flip over to English because they're better at English than you are at Korean. I know somebody lived in Barcelona and one of their friends took, um, uh, English class when they were, uh, I guess a year abroad in Alabama. So they're excellent. Oh, it was Southern. It was just like, why did you pick that up? Isn't it have, who, there's this Australian, this white Australian hip hop woman who was study abroad, studied abroad in the American South. Yeah. She does that. I'm so fancy song. I'm so, uh, sing it, sing the whole thing. I, I'm not going to sing show the dance song. I barely know on your podcast. No, but I think that basically her experience, she sort of picked up this Southern drawl lilt that sort of gave her cred hip hop wise, but she's an Australian, right? Oh, is it the one with the big ass? Yes. Mary, the Laker or the Laker. That's exactly who it is. And I'm, yeah, I'm showing you like, I'm an old guy. I'm a guy in his 50s who for me, that's young people music, but it is probably happened like 10 years ago. I heard fancy. I think it's called fancy. That'll be the episode music. It's her name starts with an A right? Oh no no. Iggy. Iggy pop. No. No. No. Iggy. Is there yeah. Something is there. Iggy is there. Yeah. Do her swaggy swaggy pee. That was her boyfriend had this thing where he was doing um there was swimming with the dolphins and dolphins are weirdly territorial um and they do this thing where he was convinced he was like he he grabbed me by the bathing suit and he was dragging me down trying to kill me so we can make time with iggy azalea. No kidding no kidding. Yeah and I looked it up and there's other stories of that where dolphins are like let me just kill this like well animals can be assholes like yeah no we anthropomorphized animals yeah we're always trying to make them into humans but they never dickhead humans right? That was just like the nicest humans like that's true we we project sort of this childhood optimism on animals I was actually at the shut-on-to-plan across the river yesterday there's a zoo there it's one of the oldest zoos in fact it used to have it there is that by the button on the learns? Yeah it is the botanical guy was there yesterday okay the zoo I won't buy it but you see the wallabies yes all the wallabies yeah the wallabies and the pigeons are like fighting for the wallabies food and it's like those dickhead pigeons are stealing the wallabies food and and probably the wallabies have their own assholes right you know the wallabies are dick being this is like kangaroo those are yeah the Jews of the kangaroo have you spent time in that part of the world you have oh yeah yeah yeah I have a video of a wallabie jerking off at the zoo in Melbourne I think right behind me it was great it was like two minutes long you're just going for it I was looking at me well we're washing those wallabies yesterday those guys have to be pretty bored you know the pigeon stealing their food isn't something to think about yeah anyway we went from igia zailia well nothing about except that I think she was an exchange student in the american south and that gave her the vernacular that allowed her to pass as a hip-hop artist that's so cool it's so cool to get it's something like that version of what it English is yeah well yeah well one one thing also heard on this trip to france is that french people for general for generations didn't want to speak english to americans because they didn't speak it well they didn't want to be the pipi the pew you know french speaker I could be completely wrong it's something I heard a couple days ago but there's sort of an honor in france and a formality in france where well it's it's probably why not very good at france is that I don't like you nor fail making mistakes right or yeah it's why like in a culture like korean where you can really be insulting to someone if you're using the wrong verb with someone who's older than you and I got yeah I know korean always just to fall back on that and people like what it's like it'll be like they're like don't call me serum 24 right it's better to error that way than the other way here's one about like cultural things so I read this thing on paris and it said um there's certain thing like don't smile at people it's just not something for people to do and if you're smiling at a woman that's you hitting on her so she's gonna expect you to ask her out next and if you smile at a dude he's gonna be like what do you what are you trying to pull so they're not rude they just don't smile same as russian don't smile it's cool so this happens my students my my I used to have younger like college students and and the women they'd get in the cab or they'd they'd they'd see somebody on the street and smile and that is not done here you don't smile at a stranger right or when you get in the cab when the guy says yeah come sit next to me you say no screw you I'm gonna sit in the back or I'm gonna know that you have and so just some some weird things have happened basically American institutions American non shalons and friendliness and informality is unfamiliar in France and so people they mess up by being too informal yeah I keep watching these dogs struggle over this grading every time a dog is over the grade oh yeah we're actually sitting like 20 feet above a really gross concrete yeah it's pretty disgusting it looks nice on camera it's pretty disgusting yeah yeah the sitting in the back guys I saw once in in Cambodia some woman accused the waiter of being racist wouldn't be the bring the check um just a white lady and uh that is here too they won't get your check unless you say what's your sit here oh that's that's how you read this rudeness or like why is he ignoring me when it's like you pay for the table like enjoy that's you know great lesson travel in Paris is a great city for that I talk about this in the new book actually don't chase you out the lecture just sit there roll cigarettes well we're in efficiency culture and so it's just like let's churn some people through whereas this is more of an asthiculture you know you're enjoying your meal you're not going to rush through your meal you're going to enjoy your meal and you're going to enjoy the company that you're with and so for years I have a chapter about this in the new book that basically yeah product placement the vagabonds were they're off parts available in my maneuver available in bookstores now where people like my students will come to Paris and it's like I want to see Paris I don't be stuck in this restaurant the waiter won't bring them my check and it's like no no this is Paris like the slow meal the the waiter who will wait to bring you your check until you ask for it that's the experience of Paris and it's actually the best part like you rushing off to see the Louvre is not as Parisian right as you having a lunch the last three hours it's almost like if you're bored fill it in with a statue rush the Louvre flash whatever it's like I don't know it's like then go then go back up that is all I was trying to do here in Paris is sit at coffee shops do some writing some cafes drink coffee and just like chill and it's been very nice it's been exactly what I was hoping for and the and the inside table and just just smoke you no one wants to skip the Eiffel Tower the Louvre or whatever I mean it depends on how many times you've come here but like yesterday my wife and I we watched Cross River we went all through the fifth along these month we ate it close really last which is where Hemingway ate and it was a very oh what are they doing and so we walked through these tourist districts you give it up yeah close close there there was an ice family trying to land euro pennies on this pillar and because it's going to be the thing right yeah but there's tons of pennies down there yeah it's a literature is it litter with small change it looks pretty gross down there I wouldn't want to be the guy who picks up the change from down there um anyway so this morning my wife went out my wife finally went out just looking for cheese and that's that was very pleasurable to go from from majorie to from majorie we actually went to a patisserie we went to um there just there's all these businesses that we went to a place that sold fruit and we just had the best cherries ever the best peaches ever and so it was a very French morning we didn't go to any tourist attractions we were just trying to buy some cheese and Like the presentation of fruit and sugar. cheese and wine and food in general of pastries is at a level that does not exist anywhere in the United States. And we were just randomly walking through a neighborhood where you don't want to be the guy who takes out his phone and takes a picture of a bunch of fruit, but you sort of do because it's beautiful because there's an aesthetic to everything. Some of them are seeds from Israel. They're just like they're bigger here and you want to think that how many Rollins was talking about, I know you're like a fan of his, yeah, a few times. Um, we're talking about maybe with him with someone else, just the things you see instantly and he says markets are a great way to feel like you're in another country, outdoor markets, or I was talking to somebody and he was like, uh, just that the cabs are shaped differently or colored differently and it's like, they're not right, homable things, you know, but it makes you feel like you're in another place. There's little differences, buying cheese or whatever, like the process of it. No, I quote, in the new book, I quote, Anthony Durer, the novelist, the American novelist, like you're in Italy and like the, the police sirens are in different tones. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the sea is not cold. It's called that or whatever. You know, it's hot. And so these small, it's like, it's actually in the same chapter that I put fiction. Like Vince Vega is like, it's the small differences. You can order a beer in McDonald's in Paris, you know, that it's that part of being in another place is not just the giant monuments, but it's the, the small differences that make everything different. And in France, beauty is a big part of this city and this culture. And so their fruit is going to be laid out in a way that is my employing me beautiful compared to American fruit or fucking Chinatown or like in China or a lot of Southeast Asian country, where it's like the market's just like, it's just here. It's on the street. Right. Right. Right. Right. They're not really making this nice presentation. Wipe and stuff down. There are some pretty amazing pyramids. They're doing some, some visit acts of physics. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I don't want to knock Asian markets, but there's something very delicate and beautiful about food presentation in this place. And I realize I sound like a weird American who's celebrating France in a very cliched way. But my wife and I this morning literally, the home with a very satisfying morning shopping for cheese. We ended up buying a bunch of fruit and a bunch of pastries and a bunch of pate, right. And that was as French as any of the monuments you would have stood in line for. It's nice. Yeah, I feel like that food here is one of the art forms. Oh, absolutely. It's just like they take care in it. It's just cool. Yeah. Even serving the food. Yeah. Your waiter is going to serve food with a pride. Literally, the appetizer in the main dish at once, you know, where you order a bunch of stuff in America. Just like, here's everything. Like, come on, man. Like, let me finish this. They really like let you, I don't know. They space it out. Well, also the recommendations. If you ask the waiter for recommendation, he's going to know if the fish is good or like where the food is like, you should listen to your recommendations. Actually, I made the mistake once of being in a restaurant in Montreal. No, yeah. It's a Frenchie place and like, asking the waiter for his recommendation and then ordering something else. No, faux pas. faux pas. If you're going to ask, you have to do what they say. He was giving us and it's like, dude, I've been in the kitchen. I know what's good today. I know. They're why he even asked. Yeah. Yeah. What you want is like, is like someone just justify what you're already saying. You know, where you're like, is look, we need the, we're probably better. And you want to say Ravioli and they go, oh, look, we need or this. You don't. Something of the Ravioli. Like, well, then why if you ask, you have to do what they say, right? That's my, I don't know. Well, that's part of the mess. Yeah, here that's, it's part of the professional pride of like, the waiter who brings you your food is that he is, he's taking care of you. You know, he's the guy. He's on your side. He's going to make sure that your culinary experience is the one that you're looking for. There's not a tipping culture here. You can't. There's not. They don't even put it on the bill. I thought it was a place where the IVA is included. I thought it was. I thought it was. Yeah. And so it's not unusual to not tip at all. Yeah. They just don't expect it. They don't expect it. They appreciate it when you do. But that's not what they're working for. They're not here to try and make a bunch of money before they go do something else. Right. Like, again, I'm, I'm being the American who sort of talking out of this ass about France. But the professional pride is a different level for a waiter, for example, in a place like this. Yeah. Um, here's something. Taking parts of culture and bringing it back to your, your standard life. Okay. Like in Cambodia/Vietnam, they have these meals that last for like two, three hours. It's small little pieces that you'll put on a little grill on a bucket. You can see those. Yeah. I mean, it's really common in Korea where you're cooking on your table. Okay. Yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. Or here, I started to, even when I ate like order to cook on cereal or whatever, I was like, I'm wolfing it down when I'm like, wait, wait. I'm going to be here for two hours. Like, why am I wolfing this? Like an American? I've been here for four days and I'm still trying to slow myself down. I'm still. I'm hurting. I'm hurting through walking. I'm hurting through eating. I'm hurting through drinking a cafe. You don't drink the cafe just a caffeine. You drink it to watch the street scene outside you. Yeah. You want to just, it's a shot pretty much. You want to like get through it, but you're like, wait, this is just to keep me here. Yeah. Yeah. It's the pretext to sit and enjoy this moment. Yeah. I'm not introducing anything new, generations of American travel writers have bloated about how the refinement of French cuisine and cafe culture, but it's true, that it's not just about the food. It's about time. It's about slowing your life down and savoring something, because we don't do that enough in America. We don't really savor things. We rush from one thing and we're trying to pack things in. In fact, I quote a Swiss Korean philosopher in the book about, there's two different kinds of time. The active time, I think it's the via active and via contemplate, my Latin is not very good, ladies and gentlemen, contemplate, anyway, it's like there's moments, he says you can't, you can't add your life by adding, adding moments, but by stretching moments out, by savoring moments. It's, and this is a horrible paraphrase, but it's basically, it's through the experience of duration that life becomes enjoyable, not through the experience of instances. So one beautiful experience that lasts two hours is better than a bunch of 10 minute experiences. That cannot be savored because you haven't taken the time to savor them. I think that one thing that French Parisians do better than Americans is savoring moments, is savoring a walk, savoring a coffee, savoring a dessert or a meal, or savoring a conversation, for example. Maybe podcast culture is bringing that back to America that we can just. Long form instead of 22 minutes out of 30 minutes. I felt self-conscious many times that I'm going down rabbit holes, but you don't edit your podcast. So we're just sort of enjoying a conversation. Yeah. You'll have gems. Right there. My job is one of the worst hosts in podcast history of keeping it on focus. Well, I'm trying to see what's going on in the background of us. Actually, I'm not used to doing these video podcasts. I think this might be the first time I've done a video podcast out and about in a city. Not self-conscious here. Nobody's bothering us. Nobody's bothering us, but as a travel writer, I feel like I should be offering something of value about Paris, and I'm just sort of bloviating. Well, we're going to talk about travel in general. Yeah, no. I'm more of a philosophy of travel in the specific travel guy. I'm not going to recommend the best place to get a baguette in Paris, but I could tell you about how slowing, how Parisians experience time in a way that's. So, if I. Okay. Instructive. So, when I got to recommend something to somebody, I'll try not to say specific places. Maybe I showed you this quote by Olga Turchek. Turchek. Olga Turchek. Whatever. She's not bringing them though. But it's about how travel writers have responsibility to not ruin places by naming them. Oh, okay. Ah. This place, the words out, you know, the Eiffel Tower, the words out already, but a restaurant in the tenth. Right, right. Don't let people walk in your shoes like the point is, when you're in France, make sure to get some baguettes at a Boulangerie. They're so fresh. Right. Not go to this one. Yeah. You know? Yeah. But that. How much more satisfying is it to accidentally discover the best baguette you ever had as opposed to looking at your app or getting your recommendations and saying, "Oh, go to this one." And then. This is 4.5. And then it's full of tourists. Yeah. Whereas you're just randomly walking the streets and then it's like, that smells good. Yeah. I'm just gonna order. What this baguette costs less than a dollar? Are you kidding me? Discovery is worth at least three points on a. It was from a 4.2 to a 4.6, you know, just because I discovered it. Yeah. Oh, it makes all the difference. Yeah. And especially, it's like some little mom and pop place in a back alley and they've never seen a tourist before. That wouldn't happen in a town like this. No. The biggest tourist town in the world. But you're in some place and you find a place and it's yours. Yeah. And they're really interested in you and they haven't seen a tourist in two months and I'm sure this happened to you in Ecuador sometimes. Oh, yeah. You're like, "What the fuck are you doing here?" Yeah. Me and Marmore, certain places more. Oh, for sure. But it's like, "What?" Because we don't, especially in Southeast Asia or in Africa, I'm sure, you look like you're not from here. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's easier for people like, "Hey, what's yours? What's your deal?" Well, I think you and I both like Asia because we're obviously not from Asia, right? And so it's sort of like being a celebrity, like a celebrity with other baggage. You walk in and it's like, "Oh, you're not from here." Yeah. Let's practice English on this, dude. And so I'm still getting used to traveling in Europe in a sense because I don't necessarily look like I'm not from here, you know? People come up and they quite understandably. He starts speaking to me in French, even though I'm not near a fluent. And so I sort of have to make that transition, whereas nobody does that as much in a place like Cambodia or Thailand or Korea, because obviously I'm an outsider. And so that's a different travel experience too. And the thing you said about Namibia too, I think it was Namibia where the ones who polished your stones. Was that Namibia? Yeah. Where they said at some point they stopped seeing you as paraphrasing, they stopped seeing you as fish. Yeah. As a mark, I'm not going to buy anything. So at some point, like, well, who's this person then? Yeah. And they were a great company because their English was good. And they were sort of bored. Yeah. And then they don't usually get to have a conversation. It's sort of a negotiation. And once they realize, one, you're not going to buy anything, but two, you're going to stick around for an hour, anyway. And of course, I did buy anything, buy some things at the end. But then they're engaged and it's like, well, it beats talking to the other souvenir vendor who is the only other person on the skeleton coast at this hour. So yeah, tell us about the politics in your country or what? What do you like to eat or how you like to eat? Can I see it? What? Yeah. Wow. Let's move on. When we pick up next, I want to talk about Hobbys, I want to talk about his book came together. Yeah. And I want to talk about if you as probably a great traveler still get nervous. But we'll talk about that. So this is like the opposite of, like, I would be nervous on my podcast if I wasn't to need my bullet points, but you're, uh, you, uh, you, uh, you, uh, welcome tangents. Yeah. All right. Till next time, ladies and gentlemen. Let us talk for a second about the power of chance when you're traveling, of just wandering upon things. We turned around the corner and there's a bunch of, uh, French people, what, what, what kind of dancing is this? Swing dancing ballroom dancing. I think it's just sort of old timey. Just old timey. Yeah. It's a little timey shit. No, but I've seen this in the parts of Paris that there's just places where people would. I think I saw it a couple days ago. Was it by the river? Yes. Yeah. It was smaller. It was only a few people. But, um, there's something that travel, uh, getting lost, something that affords you was just the, it'll just like give you stuff. And we turned around the corner and this was here. Yeah. This is not where we're headed. I have never seen this. I, I relate this sort of dancing to a very specific part of Paris on the river. Where it happens every night, but how cool is this that people are just enjoying dancing for free in the street? Yeah. Uh, on what is this a Saturday? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever come across something here or another place where it's just like, oh, what is this? Like suddenly, there's a tomato festival or at its best, always, at its best, that always happens. Yeah. It's just, I just feel like it's a gift that you only get. So, you know, the Jewish, um, or the, the Old Testament, like, uh, the God didn't part the Red Sea until the guy took his first step into it. Okay. Do you hear that? It sounds vaguely familiar. They were stopped. They got, they were leaving. They got to the Red Sea and they're like, fuck, the Egyptians are coming and like we're worse trapped. And once he stepped this one guy's like, well, we got to go somewhere and he went and then it's God saying, Hey, you took me an effort. I'll, I'll split it for you. I feel like in travel, there's that same thing where it's like you got to take the step. Okay. Well, that's something we were just talking about, that if you're going, if you're always going from point A to point B in order to get from point A to point B, you're not going to see what everything that's in between, right? Yeah. And so this is literally we're going to point B, we're in the Palais de Royale, we're going to Lou, which isn't far at all. We turned a corner and suddenly, um, there's people, probably some of them were tourists, but I would reckon most of these are French people, um, although it's a, it's a, it's a Saturday and July. So, a lot of people are off on vacation, but, uh, who would know how to dance like this? I don't know. It's so cool. I like it. Yeah. Um, you've ever had that where you just like come across it besides this, but like not even a dance party, but just like, really, it's best I've been in India, I've been, I turned the corner and there's a wedding and then I'm watching the wedding and it's like, hey, you want to come to the wedding and it's like, sure, yeah. I think in countries that aren't as industrialized, uh, that happens more often, right? They're not industrialized, so it's a rarer. I think we live more compartmental lives in industrial cultures that it's, they're less open to strangers, right? Um, and actually, we could dance here if we wanted to, but, uh, this is, uh, for sure anyway. The old comers. Yeah. I mean, it's in public. Um, yeah. I mean, you, you have examples, certainly. Yeah, or like in Hong Kong, I remember like, you see like the Filipinos dancing and they get, I talked to the Hong Kong people I knew they were like, they get one day a week off and they party. So they're out by the, the ocean or the river or whatever and they're just like, they're going for it. But like, you have to just come across, no one's, that's not a tourist stop. So there's no one's like on the itinerary to go watch them party. Right. Yeah. No, there's no, there's no guidebook. Yeah. Or you come across a gate, like a sports event where you're like, what is this? I'm like, are they all play volleyball here? Sports is a great example. In fact, I think I've told you before I got my ass handed to me in volleyball in Cambodia on a field where I was the tallest guy by the head. And that was kind of fun to get destroyed in volleyball. Um, also when I was in Myanmar, I know you like Myanmar, it's a story I've told before, but I was one thing led to another and this guy said, uh, you want to come to a play? Well, it's this all night festival. Like basically, I was, there's no story that's in the book, but I was, I asked an old man for directions and asked, asked an old man what this noise was. This is this really loud noise singing coming from some, some temple. I asked him what it was. He wasn't sure what he didn't speak English. He took me to his grandson's school. I spoke to the students. The students took me to the festival. And there's this crazy performances going on, including, I mean, they're Mary Nads. They're public shows, magic, magic shows, comedians, believe it or not. And there was a drag cabaret, there's like a trans cabaret show. It is not in the guidebook. I swear to you. Yeah. But it was just there. And this was like before trans anything was in the conversation in public conversation in the United States, I turned to the kid beside me and it's like, this is what I think it is. It's like, yeah, it's, it's gateway. It's, you know, it's, it's a performance, you know. And so they were fine with it. And I, and I wouldn't have found that in the guidebook that basically I accidentally stumbled into this performance that was not created for my benefit. Where was this in Myanmar? In Myanmar. In Bagon. Wow. In Bagon, near, oh, not Bagon, it's in Goku, which is near Bagon. Okay. Yeah. And this wasn't created for tourist benefit. I think this is a local thing. It's just like you do the square. Some people really know what they're doing. It's pretty badass. Really enjoying themselves. I'm not going to take you on the dance floor. That guy's good. All right. If my wife was here, I would pull her on the dance floor. That guy's good. That guy's terrible. That guy's really good with the shorts and the baseball cap. Damn. Anyway. I think this is the Lindy Hop or something from like a hundred years ago. Yeah. This is one where it's like, especially if you're like that cafe, you're like, oh, sick. Like, just sit there and watch that. Yeah. No. No. Yeah. I've seen this. Lindy Hop. Yeah. It's something like that. Sometimes you get invited in. And it's open. And nobody's keeping score, like it's not an advanced studio. You can dance poorly. That's how Burkheim was. I wasn't dancing. Burkheim. I mean, people are enjoying themselves. Oh, yeah. For sure. The chicken, the blue dress, her dress is made for spinning. Yeah. Oh, look at that. Haha. All right. Let's go to the next spot. All right. Till. Yeah. It's so cool. I wish I could dance like that. This is actually easier than Latin dancing in my experience. Really? Are we still rolling? Yeah. Dance. Like this is basically the one to one to beat we're used to. Whereas like salsa is the one to pause. It's like, there's sort of a rest to be. And so you could learn this, are you? You could learn this in a month. You could also. In Latin America, it's called the whale tuss, the turns. Like, how? Like, wow. See how they're spinning each other? Yeah. Those are actually pretty easy to learn. What? And since this is North American music, basically, this sort of jazz drive music, you can keep the beat more easily because you grew up with this sort of beat. And I'm not a musicologist either, so I'm not sure what kind of beat it is. But we just stick. We just stick. Yeah. Look at that. They know what they're doing. He knows what he's doing. I was like, I ever not get laid. He should never go a single day without getting laid in his life. Well, no. If you look at this and it's even more obvious in the tango parts, where these like, these craggied old men are dancing with these live, beautiful women because they're good dancers. Ferris talked about it to me when he took the tango and whatever in Buenos Aires. Yeah, he goes, it's the silver foxes. All the women were like, I want to dance with that guy. He knows what he's doing because he's been doing it over 40 years. Well, also, Latin dance is very much led by the male. There is no egalitarian dancing that you, the woman follows what the man is doing. And so if you have a less experienced male dance partner, it's not as fun. Right. There are two moves and can barely keep the beat, then it's not as fun as having that silver for that old guy. And you'll see it when you go down the river and see the tango dancers that basically these these old men who have nothing to look at, but are good tango dancers, they're who all the women want to dance with. Yeah. I'm not saying that they're having love affairs, but they are. But they're good. It's good back here. Yeah. I don't know if you have this problem where you remind me of stories. Yeah, yeah, like talking about travel because like oh, yeah, I had one time. Oh, that reminds me of this one time No, that's that's the beauty of travel is that everything connects that because we saw this I thought of something in India You thought of something in Myanmar. I thought of something in Myanmar. Yeah. Yeah, right It's like one step oneself. Yeah, so it's all it's all like well, and then my mind I'm a little bit jet lag so I'm not as sharp like I can't think of like the six greatest times I've stumbled into a festival like I rolled into Cairo once while they were having it was a Ramadan, right? And so you walk down the street and they have the I Free what it's called now, but it's it's the sundown dinner It's the I'll feed to her or something where you go and you have you join together Because you're not allowed until the sun sets. You're not allowed to eat But people are really hungry by the end of the day in Ramadan, and so it's pretty easy to get invited to these these feasts Especially you're not being a dick about it. You're not swimming your water when other people can't But no, it's these moments and weirdly enough often they are religious, you know The these occasions where in somebody is celebrating a Hindu holiday or a Muslim holiday and suddenly you're invited to be a part of it Yeah, none of stay keep on. Okay. Yeah And yeah, and actually this happened to me when I was in Jerusalem. It was What's the day when everybody draves themselves in flags and they walk around with the star David in the flag? Yom Hatsma Udd or Yom Hatsma Udd, not Yom Hatsma Udd, the Independence Day. Yeah, okay. Yeah, it was Independence Day And it's sort of the fourth of July with the star David. Uh-huh, and it's just a lot of Israel is out having fun And I don't look very Israeli, but I was invited to come up with a lot of And so I think there's something about It's it's I write about it in the new book Available in bookstores everywhere. It's it's community toss, right? The vagabonds way is cute toss the idea that You might not speak the same language as this person usually it's felt among other travelers is that you're sharing the same experience You're not even if you don't speak the same language you're doing the same thing together like when I was in Sri Lanka I did the the hike up Adams Peak have you been to Sri Lanka? No, and look that at Sri Gaia There's that a different one. I'm Segeria. Oh, Segeria. Oh, Segeria is great. But this is different. Oh, you know, Adams Peak is the second tallest mountain in Sri Lanka But it's holy and the the Hindus think is that it's Shiva's footprint the the Buddhist think is the Buddhist footprint the Muslims and the Christians thinks is Adams Footprint, but what just some dude named Bill what is interesting is that everybody is making the same hike It doesn't matter what you believe in that you're all walking up the mountain in the middle of the night sweating breathing hard and that Creates community toss it creates the idea that regardless of what language you speak or we were Approached to this place is that you're sharing the community toss of that experience And so I would imagine if you were an attractive woman you could go up to a silver fox tango dancer or dancer here And with you with that language, you're part of the community toss of what this is. Yeah, you got to be part of it It's like you ever you ever hear of sleep no more Yes, yeah, so if you're lucky while you're in sleep more if you're dressed up They will take one of the actors will take you into another room and you get to have this special scene right? Yeah, and a silver fox going up to a woman going come in that's like that moment where like That's almost like an institutionalization of what can happen in this situation where you're invited to the wedding Or you're invited to dance by this craggy old guy who's actually really good at tango and and that creates this Community toss it's not it's not cerebral. It's not about you sharing ideas or language It's about you sharing an experience and that makes that makes it different dance is a great example of this but also like religious festivals or other things like I'm thinking of a thousand things at once, but actually the physical act of something it's like a hike or a pilgrimage Part of the pilgrimage is spiritual, but part of it's like me walking across Israel Part of it is just the physical act of doing it And if there are other people doing it as well, you share that with them Even if you don't share other things with it That's some of you wrote it back in the new book too back up on sway Available now guys just buy it just click on the bottom link and buy it but like It's great. It's easy fucking reading one page per day. You can stop at it any moment It's people with short attention. Yeah, I told you for a pothead that's been Addled with fucking loss of brain cells. It's great read a page a day and think about it. Yeah But that that gift that pilgrim who went from Oh, I just read that one too. Yeah to Jerusalem and as soon as he started going it's like fuck He didn't say that but he's like what am I doing, but it's that sense of travel It's like forget the reason you're doing it. You're for religious reasons But it still was like that same like oh the unknown. Yeah, that was still present He was little he was barely outside the gates of his hometown It's like what am I doing? This is the dumbest thing. I would if I didn't look like an idiot I would go back right now. Well, he ended up taking he ended up walking to Venice He took a boat to Jerusalem. Oh, that resonated with me. Yeah, because I the first day in Myanmar I was like I made a mistake. I have to come back Yeah, and the same thing where he goes if not for this shame, I would feel yeah, I told people I'll be gone for a while I would have but I would have gone back. Yeah And that's the thing and I think it's good to give yourself permission to feel that yeah, I think nobody's the perfect traveler Nobody always knows the perfect place to go that Unless you feel that there's no way you could stumble upon this if not by chance You would have to research dance. Maybe there's a Paris app that shows you where the public dances are going Whenever they're in New York, I'm like how do they know about this? They have these in Washington Square Park I'm like who who who tells people about this? Well, I think if you're in the dance club, of course, you know, yeah, right if you're in the club. Yeah So I was in Medellin and and we went to a nightclub a Cuban dance nightclub. It's a very modern city Oh, yeah, it's great. And me and this girl in my class And her boyfriend we all went and it was like this one dude was so good at dancing and we were like I'm like get him get him to ask you to dance because I'm gonna try I don't know how to do it and he would just go up to women and he would just like stand over them and like and he knows He's the best dancer and he's like walk around and then he would stand up. That's where I'm gonna just go like that Like all right, and then we just go they're waiting for him to ask she went back. I left she went she stayed like a month She goes I went back she goes that guy asked me And she goes he just throwing me around Yeah, that that's so much pleasure for that guy. Yeah, that's what he's good at It's like the guy who can fix your garage door is gonna offer to fix your garage door The guy who's good at dancing He has so much pride in that. Yeah, is it going to show you how to do this? You're like yes, and look at all the pride this that's behind us, you know That it's basically you've learned a skill you've learned a craft you learned an art and it brings you pleasure This is another another Parisian thing. That's it's one thing to watch your screen and get pleasure from R.A.'s comedy special, but it's another thing to physically come and dance and do it. Yeah, and dance well Yeah, that's that's the fun thing that we discovered by accident here The best rendition of a story I ever told was um, I was in a outside lance in San Francisco music festival And I was on a shuttle back to I was a talent quote-unquote And so we're in a shuttle back into town. It's from Golden Gate Park And so it's some agents and some like maybe a band or two, you know But um, nobody big, but we're in the shuttle with me and my comedian friend and like eight of the people We don't know from different walks. Somebody goes, does anybody know any stories And I go, oh, I am uniquely enabled in this situation And I was just told a crushing story about shitting myself in Australia. You're the best dancer in that band Yeah, yeah, it was like it'll never be this good again. Yeah Let's move on all right, hobbies when you're traveling. Yes, so one thing Henry Rollins does I've talked to you about what I do is try to find some dumb fridge magnet You know, but Henry Rollins just likes going to record stores. He's super record sense. Yeah And some people like going to art in a place museums. We are now at the Louvre Maybe the most famous museum in the world possibly I would say so. Yeah, and the most famous single piece of art They say that 80% of the people who go into the Louvre every year and this is millions of people go to the to the Mona Lisa Yeah, that's all I would do. I would just go in there and there and that's how much of it's like the vines to miles here too I'm like, heard of that one. I heard that. That's one without the arms, right? No, I would the dick No, but I mean that's that's the whole thing Not to do overkill, but that's when you have expectations when you know what you're in there to see It makes it be lying to the Mona Lisa and it's like Then they're all disappointed. Well, of course, you know, why would you have that much expectation about the Mona Lisa? It's not that big, right? It's too small, right? That's like not picking up and then like you're in this museum of great world art If you're so focused on the Mona Lisa thing is something else But again, if you maybe if you're a chemist and you're thinking about how the paints were different in the in the medieval era While they were painting these pictures and how the paint may have changed over the years Yeah, if you're if you're a security guard and you're looking at how the security guards are how the security guards are You know dealing with people in a situation. I'm not saying that everybody has to channel their job into travel But um, but it's a good principle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love it It's so cliche that it's fun I took a picture right there of some woman making her boyfriend take the picture of hold my hand as I walk away Yeah, yeah with the ring or without now travelers become so much more performative because of things like Instagram like Who would have thought to do the hold my hand thing 20 years ago, right? It's the new version of it if if a tree falls in the woods and no one's there to hear it It's like if I didn't take a picture didn't even happen true story about Paris is that if you walk On bridges, they've actually had to take the the fences off bridges because so many people are putting padlocks on them the love locks They're selling but they were they were falling into the river and I read articles about how the ancient habit of putting your Lever's name on and on on a lock and putting it on the bridge didn't happen before 2010 There's a brand new thing that became a total Everybody's doing it. So I'm gonna do it. I'm here with my girlfriend who I might be broken up with another week So I'm gonna do it type thing And so yeah, exactly. You're fucking up in a week. It's like it's the love. It's the perfect example. They sell them three pounds three euros. You get a lot now So that's an institutionalized thing if you come here and then you're a 2005 nobody was putting a love lock on bridges Why not because it wasn't a good idea because it's kind of cool But then everybody's doing it to now that they have these plexiglass walls on the bridges because the wire ones were being torn down by the weight of all these padlocks Yeah, so and yeah, so a lot of tourist rituals are now photographic tourist rituals like I'm sure since we've been here different people have been holding the the pyramid in their hands. Yeah, that is It's a tourist activity that only exists for the for certain cameras, and so of course Of course they didn't have this pyramid here. Sometimes. I'll have a year exactly sometimes. I'll have like of like a picture plaque in certain places in A beach town in in Spain. They had that like this is a good spot to take a picture Yeah, it's part of the government has generated these signs. Well, this is another thing that that's in my book Is that before there were cameras used to bring a sketchbook right and the guidebooks to places like Paris would say if you have your sketchbook Go to this overview, and it's a good place from which to draw a Picture of the city right and so visuals have always been a part of how travels Travelers have traveled even before cameras, and so literally people would exchange tips on the best place to draw sketch of Oh, this is before the Eiffel Tower, but of the Senn, you know, maybe from Montmartre was probably not there either or the second crew was not there either, but Just You're sharing ways to capture a certain place in a certain moment Yet you're back in the day. You're drawing it instead of taking a picture And so there's an exercise we might do it in class this week Instead of going and taking a picture of a place spend two hours in a place draw a picture of it And how does that experience has it affect your experience of it? Because you get to notice more you have to slow down and see more notice more And so that's another way trying to sketch something where I'm like, I don't know how to do it It's because I saw these people in the mosaic or say yeah I'm like, what if I just join it with them there was a stunt contest at University of Maryland And I was like, I'll light up and try it and I I mean, I didn't even get to the net height and I slammed it backwards and I was like, did it go? I don't know. I'll try it. I'll write a sketch Yeah, well, are you doing one? Am I doing a sketch? A sketch? Oh, I was thinking comedy sketches for a second I as the teacher, I usually don't do it, but I should Because it forces forces it's actually it's another way of getting out of what you think you're supposed to do And what I found with my students is that they'll come to a place like this and they'll start sketching And then tourists will come up to them because they want to know what is important And they become a tourist attraction in their own right because suddenly it's like why are they concentrating? Why are they paying so much attention to this thing? I just watched but this must be an important one This must be a thing and maybe it happened that would happen less likely here but um No, it's the thing it's it's it's it's so again back to time It's a way of slowing down time. It's a way of forcing yourself to spin you can take a better snapshot of this in a second Then you could for two hours of sketching, but you'll experience more in two hours Um while you're forcing yourself to sketch. Yeah So what hobbies now I'm afraid that this did not go on. I'm always afraid I didn't press record What hobbies do you have on the road to get you moving? Like that's a good question. Is it is it going? It is all right. Yeah Do you have anything like that or not really? Not like food like Part of what it made Interesting this long walk for cheese this morning with my wife was that she really loves cheese And that sort of structured our walk that she was looking for the good cheese. Yeah, and she was looking at words for certain kinds of French cheese That's not my thing actually Food is a great one. Food is a great one actually running sometimes. I'll go for a run Just as sort of a fitness thing Um It's funny that like the fact that we're here with microphones gives us a kind of authority It's like we're being very polite and differential that reason And so it's yeah, that it's almost as cute as I know five. It's like look up the end of Johnson that kind of music It's very sweet that people are trying not to walk in in our field division here sometimes I'll be shooting a movie in New York And then like hey, don't go yet. I know how to be like um fuck off. I'm not in this movie. All right going home Right. No, you don't get so much to do. Give me a coke then. All right. I'm my sad card. Yeah So yeah, what do you got? Besides going to get from mage There must be stuff that drives you around I mean walking running I'm a great walk until your day entry becomes interesting guy Yeah, basically you just get out and go just get out and go in fact It's a great way to spend your first day in a city is just start walking around you get lost enough times and pretty soon You stop getting lost because you know where you are so dude. I was starving. I I landed I went back to my place here in Paris I'm Paris. Yeah, um took a nap. It was an overnight flight took a nap till about 435 So I'm like I woke up and I'm like what day is almost I was like it's not almost over since it's 945 or something like that So I'm like, oh get out there and I'm Fearful of opening my mouth. It seemed like a foreigner. Yeah, and so I'm just walking and walking and then eventually my stomach gets the better I mean like I have to do this or I'm gonna just be hungry And then eventually you're like, you know go through it. You just deal with it So it's but being out walking is like I have no options here, right? Um, I'm saying walking is a good one No, what walking is always good in a way in a way that's it that's a cheat answer because walking whatever your hobby or obsession is walking is all it Sorry, I was talking to my microphone down here Walking is always a good option because It just takes you into places you hadn't expected to be Do you have a hobby? Do you have an operating principle? Do you seek out? I will see or do you yeah sometimes I go see a comedy show Okay, it's found one in my neighborhood here. Okay, that's a good picture. It's on there, but I gotta check it out A foreign comedy is fun. Mm-hmm It doesn't happen in a lot of places. So there's no sense of looking for it But there was one in Ecuador for sure But it was all like one-man show stuff. There's some in Norway. I don't know, but Thrift stores. No, maybe I don't have one that it's like a go-to one like like record shops like with Rollins It occurs to me that I feel Bad that I don't have a quick answer for you, but I think as a travel writer. I'm always looking for different Frameworks from which to experience a place. Yeah, so it's a travel writer like when I was writing my souvenir book That was my thing souvenirs souvenirs, right? I wasn't typically a souvenir guy But said I was having these really interesting experiences was souvenir vendors who weren't used to people being curious about them, right? And so I think it's sort of an automatic cheat as a travel writer that I always am able to Whatever up or operating principle of of my story is going to be my excuse. That's going to be my hobby right? It's always walking to an extent But it's always something within the framework of the story I'm trying to tell so for one book. It was souvenirs There's a different frameworks like once I tried to I just wanted to walk into the desert in fact that cover of vagabonding is from that They just walked in the desert. I just wanted to feel what was like to be in a sea of dunes and that was my operating principle Um, and it worked pretty well. Yeah, I guess mine are food get get try some flavors of the place um And get that dumb fucking fridge magnet that but that's more just to get me out of the apartment just to get me like moving No, I mean that's why This week we'll talk about psychogyography that just the idea that you're gonna follow a color or you're gonna follow a smell Or you're gonna find ways to play games with the city because that will reveal things like we accidentally stumbled into people dancing Which was awesome. We didn't even need a psychog geographical principle. We were literally trying to come here But we accidentally found this cool dance experience and psychogiography is Psychogiography is called psychogiography. It's a way of tricking yourself into stumbling into those experiences Because you're following in the color pink you're following the smell of baguettes. You're following Some principle that doesn't really make sense but yields rewards, you know like like my wife and I were looking through this This shot noir this this old magnet. It's in all the souvenir shops So suddenly we're looking for black cats. Yeah, and that's our operating principle that we're looking for black cats But suddenly we're seeing aspects that can let's go find one of these Yes, feeling whatever these is that's the x exactly and in a way that's a better Travel principle than your tourist map, but I don't want to know It's like let's say we stopped and let's say somebody let's say you and I were dating and somebody who's like hey, do you want to come dance right? And we were headed to the Louvre to actually go in right we would need to be able to go Yes, you need the Louvre. Yes, I'll go back tomorrow. Yeah, forget whatever reservation I had we could eat anywhere Right Because you've been invited into some chance encounter. So you got to like You have to hear that that Story of a man was drowning. It's like a bible story man was drowning and then somebody came by and a robot and said Hey, do you need help because no gods gonna help me you heard this one? Okay, yeah, and then When buys that we don't have like god. I'll hate me. It's like I said you a boat. I said you a ship It's a true whale like enough like yeah, then there's there's this none he was praying to win a lottery. Yeah, every day She prays to win a lottery day like day 200. She's praying God you forsaken me Why haven't won one the lottery and the heavens open up and God says buy a ticket So I feel what point we're trying to illustrate with this some sort of be able to say fuck the Louvre. Yeah, I'm staying in this No, basically the Louvre is an outline of there's the way you've come here for and there's what the place has offered you And if you can't embrace what the place has offered you then You're selling your experience short. You might have a purpose good experience of the Louvre. You might see this artwork that you sort of studied about in our history class. And then you're missing out on the dance. You're missing out on the crazy guy. He wants to show you his pet. Yeah. I had two things to see in Southeast Asia. Bagan and not Hoyan with the big. Oh, the Sean State Place, the boats. No, that was in Southeast Asia. That's only in Myanmar. I'm talking about all the Southeast Asia. Oh, in Vietnam. Oh, okay. What? Now Vietnam. They had those big pires of like islands. People go out there. Not Hoyan. Oh, in Vietnam. Yeah, the, the, the, um, yeah, Hoyan in the northern, in northern Vietnam. Yeah. In the bay. How long bay? How long bay? Yeah. Two things I want to see in all of Southeast Asia while I was there. I ended up saying, but gone, not the other one. But the whole trip was one of the greatest trips of my life. Because it was like, ah, that's a fucking framework. I think until you discover that by accident until you're like sitting in the, in the hostel or the guest house and you're hearing somebody a couple of tables over talking about this amazing experience that they had last weekend. It's like, hold on. Where did that happen? Yeah. Really? That's just the river from here. I'd never, this is what happens to you with Segeria in Sri Lanka is that I didn't. Segeria is this hilltop, this plateau top fortress in central Sri Lanka. That's just this amazing feat of human. Like how they got water of urban engineering and aquatic engineering. I had no idea it existed until I went there and then I'm there. It's like, why didn't I know, not know about this place? And I think if you allow yourself to stumble into those places and to listen to where other people have gone and to allow yourself to make mistakes and to just say, yeah, I will go dancing instead of going to the Louvre. Then that's when travel really becomes interesting. You see the, he was like, how long do you be here? I'm like, I don't know, like Asia like a few months. I don't know. You can see the Komodo dragons. I'm like, I've always been into those. Where are those? It's like two islands over here. I'm like Komodo, right? Yeah. Okay. New fucking plan. Yeah. Yeah. It's nice when it rewards you like that. Yeah. Let's one more thing and then we'll move on. How does book come together? What? It came out of the pandemic. Okay. Like a lot of great art will. This is the thing. It's actually a long answer. Should we should we should we do the whole answer? Let's save it for some words. Okay. I'll definitely come back. Because it's tied into my entire life as you might have gathered from the entries in the book. Yeah. I mean, there's some of you in there for sure. Yeah. Yeah. But it's not completely you. It's also like what you like. I've also been keeping notes on everything I've read as a traveler for 25 years. And I've been keeping really nerdy obsessive notes. And so it shows up in the book. But what interests me of travel is just that the human texture of travel, how it changes people's lives and forces them into situations they wouldn't have considered before. And people who traveled in Japan 800 years ago or each 3000 years ago have had the similar human experience that we have human experience. Yeah. Exactly right. It's not the same thing. It's the similar human experience being in the unknown. Yeah. And being forced. This is why a pilgrimage was interesting that a lot of pilgrims they would leave their smell of little village in Europe and they would go and they might get drunk for the first time and they might you know commit adultery on their spouse, but they're having these new experiences and it was all the act of doing it was spiritual and existential and life changing. Now I'm not expecting. I'm not suggesting that you go and arbitrarily get drunk or cheat on your spouse on the road. But yeah. Travel forces you into new realms of experience that are just not possible at home no matter how open-minded and open-hearted you are. So people ask me this and always surprised at the answer and I'm going to ask you to do you get nervous when you go traveling to a place for the first time or when you go on a long-term travel? Like is there still fear or nerves or is it all done? I would say it's all done for me. And it's interesting because I am I'm traveling with my wife internationally for the first time and she's really good at languages. I've accepted that I'm bad and so she is nervous about French in a way that I've never been nervous about French because she's nervous about French. She's actually going to become a better French speaker than me very soon. But I think the nerves are a good thing. It's almost like performance. Sometimes it's good to be a little bit nervous before a performance. It's good to be it's okay to be nervous as a traveler as long as it doesn't preclude you from doing something interesting and daring and vulnerable. Right. But like I always tell but like you should feel nervous. It's completely unknown. I do it every time. Same thing with psychedelics. We're like you're fine. I'm like no I get scared every time I have a thing of mushrooms in my hand. I'm frightened. That's interesting to hear. But like yeah I'm done with a bunch. I know how it's going to go. But like I got to reassure myself. Same with travelers. Like I will find this thing to do. I think that's good for the discipline of doing it. Yeah. That yeah. No I think nerves are a good thing. But it can't hurt to be nervous as long as the nerves don't preclude you from doing it. Right. It's good to be nervous. It's not so right. So nerve-wrackingly like no way. No fucking way. Yeah. Yeah. We sat there in Ecuador. They had one of these like you know not bungee things but the zipline across this canyon. Yeah. Where was this Ecuador near Buenos. Yeah. It's a route to the waterfalls. I forgot. I don't know the waterfalls. You can take a bike. It's just downhill the whole way. And then take a cab back up. Anyway we saw this thing. We were pondering it for like 45 minutes. I don't know. Is this even safe? It's $10. That's not enough to be safe. Right. And then you're like fuck but we're gonna regret not doing it. But still I don't want to do it. And then eventually it was like one of us like so let's just do it if we're gonna be doing it. I'm like fuck and just talking to yourself into it. It's fun as shit. Yeah. But we could have easily been like nah. And usually that's the case. Usually what? You go nah. Usually it's totally worth it. You know that the anxiety is part of the process but having done it is so much. I mean plus a negative of not having not done it. This kick yourself. The first time I've been in the bag of mine is 23 years old. I lived in a van. It was safer, cheaper and easier than I would that any of my fears would have imagined. And now everybody is that the van life thing. But that basically it's so we're actually it makes it more rewarding when you do have anxious when you are anxious. The beautiful moments are more beautiful just because you you didn't go into them with confidence and the privilege of thinking that you deserve this that you sort of you allowed yourself to have there's there's a lot of gratitude among travelers around the other side of the world. And maybe this happens a lot early in your travels and you're just so thankful that you're here. You're smelling new smells. You're eating new food. It's cheaper. It's more beautiful than you thought it would be and you're just grateful. And that's a it's good to exercise your gratitude muscle I think. There is something like that you're right to stop it like oh cool. I'm at this spot. I've seen this some books but now I smell it right now I smell it and it's like this is cool you can stop right it's fun to be like this is cool or sometimes it's like I never saw this in a book but it's sort of cooler than I imagined anything in a book would be you know oh interesting all right let's go somewhere else then we'll talk about how you got into this book all right you know I can give you a whole story okay cool all right we're back I do love the people like I'm messing everything I'm like this is not on TV right it does not matter I was just thinking that this the video aspect of this lens a weird officialness to this it's like I almost feel like I should look into the camera like I'm presenting a documentary or something yeah when I so I always resisted this because I felt like it would make people feel like they're performing instead of like being natural and it's something I do when I was just doing audio too is I'll just talk to them for like 25 minutes about nothing and that I'll get into like how to just survive tower two or like you know or like I say like you're rape when you're a kid or like you know whatever but like I try to get them to like forget that they're holding a microphone right and this makes it harder right when I'm in a more comedians are used to it now so that's easier but when when you're in a studio all like set them up and then press record before people even get there okay okay and then I'm like hey sit down you want some coffee right and it's like no we're on no I'm tempted to talk to camera sometimes no I know I know they're feeling though so it's like natural to talk to each other like this like you're in a car dynamic cars too that's a good one well we've we've done two together in cars we drove around Los Angeles on Los Angeles twice one of which involved a mushroom deal right one of which involved the wish deal it's right we talked about it already how are we looking good I shouldn't tilt this but how's the background does everybody know where we're at Luxorburg oh yeah yeah yeah yeah in the six all on these one uh the the classic we're on the left bank of the sen this time yeah um these I believe were originally built as royal gardens again I'm not the I'm not Rick steves I'm not going to give you facts I'm just gonna sort of smart with randomly you don't know what Rick steves he's like the PBS travel guy he's nice guy I met him but he is very much sort of here's going to be an hour about a place and you're gonna come home with specific ideas for how to travel to this place whereas I'm much more of a big concept travel guy like a life philosophy travel guy and it occurs to me this is the first time I've talked with anyone like officially for a podcast about my new book available in bookstores everywhere but you don't have my stick down yet like when you interview the vaga bonding vaga bonding had been out for 15 years yeah and so I sort of knew my talking points oh tell him what happened after we did the podcast we saw I saw a lot of books that's right skeptic tank bump I told you guys in the past that's what happens skeptic tank bump yeah is this skeptic thing but I think I told you before that I sort of have this this R.A. fandom yeah which which is like oh I read your book it was great I haven't read a book in 10 years but I read your book and I liked it where's the Tim Ferriss is like the crowd is like oh I read 10 books this week in vaga bonding was one of them so it's like the the most people too smart the the straight A students of life listen to the Tim Ferriss show I like Tim but his fucking audience is dorks the sea, the sea minus of life. - That's right, I read your book four times 'cause I don't remember reading it each time. - But they're very sweet people, your followers are very sweet, aren't they? - Yeah, I'm very lucky with that. - Yeah, but like I don't have my stick, so like you're asking me questions about the book and I keep forgetting to actually talk in that nice concise way that makes people interested in it. - Well no, I'd rather, okay, so you are gonna get a stick eventually. That's why I found it in like any time a big thing happens on like in like comedians, eventually they get like Rogan had this thing with Carlsman C and eventually radio whenever you start to ask 'em and he was himself at first and then he was let himself and then it just tears the routine. I'm sure you get that with your students or when you do like public speaking in colleges, we're like, this is already set. - Right, well actually I recently spoke at my own colleges, one of my first post pandemic events and you have your stick that works. There might be an equivalent in comedy that you know what people respond to, you know it gets people excited. And so for that book, I've been talking about for 20 years now. I know what people get what people excited about that book. But for the new book, like my stick isn't down yet. And so. - So great, so now you're more natural. More natural is the way to go. What's Rogan's stick is at one point. - Don't ask you what this is. I just have, you can just hear another interview already. - Right. - Right. - Anyway, I'd rather get you a few. - So this is the raw version. Not only is it on an audio, but it's on video too. This is sort of the raw, raw, not really knowing how to answer his questions. - Yeah, later when he has a stick. - And he's like made up details. You can be like, that's not true. I saw the original story. - Yeah. (laughs) - So yeah, how did this book come about? 'Cause you have this long history with vagabonding. Not the verb, but the book. Where it is, my friend says it like on your tombstone. It's in your Wikipedia, is the new version of that. - It's my career book. It's funny, it's my first book. vagabond's way is my fifth book. But it's just what people have responded to. And still people are responding to it 20 years on in the same way that they did before. - It's universal. - People get excited about it. And so actually this ties into our friend Tim Ferris, that I asked him like, what's that? I'm thinking about writing vagabond, I thought. - Right, no good guy, good guy. But I said like, I'm thinking about doing vagabond too. Vagabonding too, what do you think? Because at the time, I was thinking, well maybe Tim could just publish it. We could be an audio book that Tim has-- - That's what he told me to do. - proprietary. What's that? - That's what he told me to do. - To do, to publish. - Self publish. - Yeah. - So I tell you that? - Yeah. - Okay. - You're like, what are they gonna offer you? You have your own fan base. - Well, that's true. That's true. That you could self publish in a way that's what's gonna be way more remunerative. You might not get your times review, but you basically, you're automatically gonna sell the books to the people who are skeptic tanks fans for example. - Yeah. - So, but and Tim said, yeah, don't water it down. Don't write vagabonding too in a way that water's down. You're messy. You've already written-- - What does that mean water it down? - Well, it's not like, right, sort of say the same thing in a slightly different way in such a way that people will buy the book and it's like, eh, I kind of like the first book better. - Right. - And so then, yeah, and so I was a little bit disappointed by that 'cause I thought he'd be excited and he's like, he would be-- - He loved the first book. - 'Cause he loved for, he published the audio book. Like, random house didn't use their rights to publish an audio book. And so he said, you know, those rights revert to you. Why don't you let me publish your audio book until he did. - For vagabonding? - Yeah. - Wow. - And so it makes a lot of sense. So I thought he would be all over vagabonding, too, and he gave me what turned out to be good advice, which is just like, yeah, don't say the same thing twice with a different cover. Think about this. - Yeah, literally people do that where they're just like, let me rehash this thing. This is like, great thing I did. - Well, like almost every movie franchise has diminishing returns every time they make a sequel, right? - So the fuck dinosaur movie, whatever the fuck it is. - Yeah. - It's like, all right, well, they're got loose again. - And there's books, I'm sure there's comedy routines that are sort of, guys are talking about the same thing. They were talking about 10 years ago, and it's not as funny, but it's safe, right? - It worked, so they keep it going. - And so I wasn't sure what to do for a while, and then I started reading the Daily Stoic. You know, Ryan Holiday, he was just on Rogan, maybe two months ago. He's a young guy, he's barely into his thirties, but his thing is Stoicism. - He's true. - Okay. - The philosophy of Stoicism, he wrote, the obstacle is the way, stillness is the key. He's been on my podcast, and there's just the, actually, what's the quote in the background, no? - Nobody's quoted in this book. - Okay. - And so. - I've heard about Stoicism recently, what is it? - Well, it's the old Greco-Roman philosophy of that you can't control your circumstances, but you can control how you react to your circumstances. And so it's just this idea of think before you act, calm your passions, and he wrote a book called, Ryan Holiday wrote several books about Stoicism, but he wrote what was called the Daily Stoic. It became a bestseller because it came out the year Donald Trump was elected. People were really nervous about Trump. Stoicism says you can't control your circumstances, you can control how you react to them. - That's kind of Buddhist, too, right? - It's very, it has a lot of overlap with Buddhism. It became popular with professional athletes, like Aaron Rogers of the Packers has been on Instagram showing his copy of the Daily Stoic, right? And so basically, every day of the year, for a leap year, 366 chapters, Ryan had a quote from a Stoic philosopher, and then a meditation on the quote that sort of maybe brought in an example from sports or from Teddy Roosevelt or the Bible or something. So basically, each day of the year, you have a meditation on Stoic philosophy that sort of meant for self-help and sort of make your life calmer and more focused. And so I ended up basically, long story short, pitching a travel version of the Daily Stoic where every day of the year, I have a quote by a philosopher, a travel writer, a poet, at one point, I quote, "You are a." - Not in the epigraph, I'll tell ya. - And then I have a meditation on that quote. - Yeah, there you go. It's kind of like early Seinfeld when he would do a bit, and then the whole episode was something to do with that theme of that bit. - Yeah. - And then they stopped that after a couple of years, but like, it is exactly that. - Right, and so it has, it's not vagabonding too, but it's very much of the ethos of vagabonding. But basically, each day has, so basically January is about inspiration for travel. February is about planning for travel. March is about getting started in travel. And so basically, the year cycles through the phase of journey. - It's overlaid. - The vagabonding a lot, because sorry I interrupt you. Because like, vagabonding is spent in the three groups getting ready, small chapter, traveling, 80% of it, coming home, another small chapter. - Yeah. - Yeah, vagabonding is 11 chapters, sort of book ended by leaving and coming home. This is similar. So December is mostly about keeping the journey going once you're home. - Yeah, how do you keep the vibe? That's something I'm trying to do. When I got back from Ecuador, I was like, how do I keep that Ecuador vibe? That's freedom. Then I, like, how do you keep it? Introduce yourself to your neighbors? Or do you get all this when you mindful about it? - Yeah. But then it's Ecuador vibe, but it's not specific to Ecuador, because if you wanted that vibe, you would stay in Ecuador. But like, the idea of waking up and not knowing what's gonna happen, but being excited about it. And walking across town, I'm saying, I am going, that's wedding music. I'm going to stop at this wedding and watch. And if somebody invites me to join, then I'm going to join this wedding, right? It's giving yourself permission to do whatever to, you know, again, walk until your day becomes interesting, letting yourself not be bound by your plans, but whatever's exciting in your life, right? And so that's December in this book. Like November is about sort of the long haul and the decision to come home. The middle chapters are about the meat of the journey. Like early in the journey, your vibe is gonna be a little bit different than when you've been traveling for a long time. - Yeah. - And so March is getting started. It's those first impressions. It's being excited about everything. But by the time in this, the vagabonds, by the time you're in June, July, August, you're in your more seasoned part of travel. And it's like, well, how can I experience something in a different way? - So there's something you wrote in here that I've gotten to already. I've done the, as of now, I've read the first, or whatever, I'm like two days in a march. - You're in a march. - Yeah. The first, basically the pre-travel stuff you've done. - Yeah. But something in there was the more you're traveling, the better you're gonna get at it. - Yeah. - The, oh, my bus left an hour early or oh, my bus leaves four hours late. That's me saying it. It's like, shit, like, uh-huh, I've dealt with this. - Yeah. - Not a big deal. - Yeah. - Well, there's also, is it the mediocre now brain chapter? - Maybe. - The idea that you can plan your travels, but now is your mediocre now brain. - You're doing it right now, yeah. - It's not gonna be as, it was, it was this name, I think your name was Julie Roxanne Gravorkin. She, I was on her podcast, her and her husband's podcast. - Yeah. - And I was talking about this about how you're smarter once you, once you leave. Like your first week of travel, you're gonna be smarter. You could read an encyclopedia about France. Once you've been in Paris for a week, you're gonna be so much smarter. - Oh, it works, it works, right? - Yeah. And so she said, well, it's your mediocre now brain. You know, that why, why should I plan my trip around my mediocre now brain as it understands France or Cambodia or Australia? When I'll be so much smarter after one week in that country. - The comedy version of that is people make these catch phrases when they're three months in a comedy. And then they're 10 years in and season now. And then it's like, why are you still honoring this fucking dork open micer? - Yeah. - That decided something. - Right. - He was a loser, dude. - Right. - If he said, how do you now? He'd be like, get away, you suck. But you're doing whatever he told you. And the mediocre now brain says, that's what I remembered. It was like all these decisions comedians made before we knew we were doing. - Right. And it seems like good advice at the time. But basically, and this is, it's sort of to honor your future self. You can study the heck out of your travels. But until you're out in the road making mistakes, you're going to be smarter every day of your journey than you are when you're planning your journey. And so, unless you allow yourself to make mistakes, like if you plan this very detailed itinerary in Ecuador six months before you get there, then you're in Ecuador and you realize that it's way cooler than you thought it was, but you're stuck in your old mediocre now brain. You're not in the smarter every day person that is on the road and that it's traveling. Is this making sense? Yeah, totally. Yeah, totally. So that's when you're like, oh, I'm supposed to do this thing, we're like, no, no, I know that's not the thing you're supposed to do. Well, it's like, it was just like, now we were walking to the Louvre and we found people swing dancing in a courtyard and they were not tourists. They were French people swing dancing and doing it well and we stopped and watched it because yeah, your mediocre now brain is looking for the Mona Lisa when travel has gifted you with the dancing in the courtyard near the Louvre. There's some guy who can never stop thinking about is we're going up to where I found that the fool guy. We're getting on a bus. It there was another bus that left, I guess before the advertised time and this dude was screaming about it. I checked out at my hostel. What am I supposed to do in these people? The bus stop like in their minds are like, the bus is not turning around. I don't know what you're screaming about. I have no power to help you here. And me and my friends are just kind of like smiling at them. And it's like, I don't know if I'm gonna stay in fucking whatever city it was, not sway for an extra day. Just stay in today. You just got some, it's like, I would know better. There's a chapter in the book about cancer. Okay, go home or stay. You know, like, there's a chapter in my book that it's, I didn't set out to honor my father-in-law, but I did because my wife has this story about when they went, they're going through Italy. They got to the airport at, I don't know, Milan and her dad read 1500 as five o'clock into the three o'clock, right? And they're done that. And we've probably all done that, right? But and so instead of, can I just use our American system? Well, instead of getting an airport hotel and waiting for the next plane, he said, let's just go to the Alps. So they drove up to this place called the Oste Valley and they stated this enchanted, mistrotted place. And part of the fun of being there was that it was an accident and that they hadn't gone there to find the Oste Valley. They they had gone there because dad screwed up and missed the plane. But he was willing to say, no, let's just, let's don't stay by this, let's just, let's use this mistake as an opportunity to do something amazing. And so they, not knowing where they're going, they drove in the Alps, they stayed in this little valley, and it was enchanted. It's one of my wife's favorite travel experiences because her dad messed up, but was willing to turn it into something better. Yeah, there's that too, right? The ability to turn something into a positive where it's like, yeah. So, so you miss your bus. Well, stay in the village, make a friend, you know, get in the soccer game, try it, eat that guinea pig that you didn't think you were going to eat before it. Try it now. I knew I was going to eat it, right? Yeah. Okay. So you're rolling a cigarette with a mic. You want me to hold your microphone so you can roll in the cigarette? It's okay. I breathed it here. I'm the worst at this in the world. I can go on a monologue. I don't know if you know I'm listening. I'll bring it in. I'll just keep fucking these. I've already lost two papers. So pandemic comes. Have you been thinking about this type of thing for a while? Well, this is a deal. It's the commonplace book. I think if you and I talked about the commonplace book before, what's the commonplace book? Well, this is another Ryan Holiday thing that basically in during Renaissance times, their aristocracy would keep a commonplace book that you didn't have access to a thousand books. So if you're read a book that moved you, you would write your favorite quotes into your commonplace book. Basically, it's a notebook where you stored your knowledge, right? So you would take a book from the from the from the library in the center of town. You would read it. You would copy all the best quotes of Dante into your commonplace book and you would have them for the rest of your life. Early Napster. You would just take it. But you wouldn't you would transcribe it. And so you were as you were transcribing it, that forced you to think about it in a creative way. And then you had these quotes. And then suddenly your Dante, your favorite Dante is in a commonplace book that you had in your own house. Thomas Jefferson had one, Leonardo da Vinci had one, all of you know, the great men of the Renaissance had commonplace books. Well, without knowing and Ryan Holiday, because he writes about the stoics, writes about commonplace books and he keeps them on paper. I as a young nerd with my Apple II e computer or my Commodore 60, we're not my current gash, my Mac Classic computer, I would keep it on my hard drive, right? Right. So I've been saving quotes since the mid 1990s about everything. Because you have so many. Yeah. Yeah. And so vagabonding has a lot of quotes. And that came out of my commonplace book. I love the aspect of it because that came out of that. So you would just go to your old book. I didn't know it was called a commonplace book. I didn't know that the Thomas Jefferson Da Vinci kept a commonplace book. I was just saving these quotes because I didn't feel like I was smart enough to like quote them at memory. So I would hold onto these quotes from Walt Whitman, you know, from Annie Dylan and other people who are in that book. And so I wrote vagabonding maybe seven years into my commonplace book. I wrote this 25 years into my commonplace book. It's a lot bigger. And so it's it's a lot deeper than vagabonding, right? So I think not to discourage people from by my mind, like your 20-year-old who just wants to get excited about travel is going to read vagabonding in two hours and hit the road. Actually, a 20-year-old also read this book, but it's going to it's harder to read because it's a page a day. There's a lot to think about on each page. Can you understand this stuff before you've been on some sort of long-term travel? Well, like as with vagabonding, hopefully you read it once and get excited. Then you read it again when you get home and it's like, oh, of course, like there's two ways of understanding it. There's reading it to get inspired and there's reading it to understand, right? So there are there are this book is pretty dense. It's denser than vagabonding. It's harder to read quickly, but it's more likely to be a book where you read a page or two a day and then think about it for the rest of the day. And then it builds up over the course of a longer time, right? This is our this is our first walkthrough person. Yeah, it's not bad. No worries. Pada de problem. What would you tell yourself at 26 that you can tell yourself now? Like if you went back in time, that it keeps getting better, that there's, there's about travel. There's nothing to rush that about travel is that you don't need to burn your candle now, that you can have an amazing experience and it doesn't have to scratch it off your list that you can go to Paris. You can go to Mongolia and it doesn't have to just be, oh, now I don't have to do that anymore. You can come back to a place that basically you can, I'm not saying that you always have to go back to the same places, but that as you get older, travel gets better because you become a more complex grounded. And let's face itself confident person when I was 26, I like to think that I was smart and hopeful, but I just had less life experience. I let's self confidence, you know, that all these years later, I'm better equipped to be a traveler and I miss being, I miss being a traveler in that everything was new. Everything was new when you're like that young, it's like, what the fuck is this? What's Korean bar with you? And it's straight to your heart. Everything moves your heart. Your first country is just like my wife. My wife. My wife is the same way that she went to drama school in London and she had things that happened to her in London in her early 20s that will never happen again because it happened to the young her. There's things that happened to me in Thailand and Korea in India that I can't compete with those because I'm an older version of myself. It goes, you know, I've been in the Nick Adam stories. He was like, you know, I've been, which is just him, I guess, I've been around the world. I've had beautiful women wives and girlfriends, but everybody's like nobody compares that young Papusa his word of when I was, you know, when we're both 16 in the woods. It was just like, yeah, it's like wild. Well, there's a first love aspect to this, you know, that you can, you can, you can retrospectively be annoyed by your first love, but your first love affects you in a way that stays with you, right? Even though you would never make that choice now, well, your early travels, especially the ones that when you're traveling for yourself with your own money on your own initiative. Yeah. That just goes straight to the heart and it feels like Indonesia, Myanmar, there's places you've been Thailand, maybe that are special to you because those were your first true vagabond experience. Yeah, I don't know if it's like, do I love Myanmar because my first spot or because it's so foreign, so like wildly undiscovered. Yeah. And I don't know. Well, that really shifts you out of your comfort zone too, that I think. And of course, as we all have our travel first loves, Asia will always be my travel first love because I was young when I was there. And maybe Europe would be it if this is where I came. But because I was so obviously not from there because I was so confused every day, it really forced me to make sense of things. And I don't know, it was fun. I was like when I was living in Korea, I was stressed out a lot. That's a workaholic place because I was working. I was working as an English teacher there. Oh, did you finish? You finished one. I think so, buddy. I think so. It's your affectation is is rolling your own. I think it's just for 25 minutes. This is the longest one I've ever taken. I've never, I used to have a table. You are holding a mic and trying to thank you. I appreciate it. It's funny at the Louvre we had. Maybe a thousand people were walking through the camera and you know like a few dozen of them decided not to through the camera. We've only had one person walk through the camera here. And she noticed too. Yeah, and then she felt bad. Oh, that's good. It's your face. Yeah, no, she, she apologized. But it's like, it's fine. It doesn't matter. Yeah. So how long did it take? It'll in a second. Yeah. How long did it take to write this? Um, eight months. So, so this is in this, I don't know if I've said this in this podcast yet, I also met my wife during the pandemic. And so two months in the pandemic, I had a blind date where with a woman where we had to stand 10 feet apart, we still don't know how it was. So it's not the fucking weirdest things part of it. It's going to be part of our history. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be tough to remember. Like why the like in the in the metro, we're like, why these seats so far apart? Like, oh, they took out every other seat. Yeah. They haven't put them back in yet. Yeah. I haven't been on the metro yet. But so I haven't seen that. But areas of you can't push anybody. It's, it doesn't, doesn't make me feel like I'm home. Right. Right. No, I mean, and I'm not super fond of the metro because it's such a good walking city. Paris is a such a good walking city. But during, and this, I'll remember this the rest of my life, that I was a grizzled bachelor going into the pandemic. And then two months in, I swiped right on Bumble, which I don't usually do in Kansas. And then I met my soulmate, basically. And then I was instantly. It's more of a J-Date, please. I have a story about J-Date in Kansas, because I was just curious about who, what Jewish people are looking for love in Kansas. So when on J-Date, I said, I'm not Jewish, I'm not looking for Jewish. I don't want to convert. I just wanted to see who was out there. And it's all like really stressed out university professors at Kansas State University or something. They're just not a big indigenous Jewish outside of Kansas City in Wichita. There's not much of a Jewish population there. But in so my wife, who had been living in Berlin for a long time, went home to be with her parents during the pandemic. And so at the time, I lived next door to my parents. And so our first date, our first date, my parents were there, our second date, her parents were there. We couldn't touch because the pandemic. And so it was very Victorian. What's that? It was a death sentence if you got it. Well, at the time, I don't want to kill my parents. I didn't want to bring some random bumble match onto my property, introduce them to my parents, and have my parents catch COVID and die. And now that the reason you're going to die, it's just like, it's so much different. In retrospect, it seemed silly. Like I was washing doorknobs. On our first two dates, we were washing doorknobs, washing dog down. If someone else pet my dog, it would take her straight to the shower and shower myself. In retrospect, it's an absurd thing. But that is the circumstance. It was that then under in our minds. It was that. Yeah. God. Yeah. And so so basically I fell in love. And so then my fiance at the time, fiance, um, said, you fired your agent 10 years ago and you haven't gotten a new one. Like you've your last two books have been unagent. And it's like, yeah. And she's like, find a new agent. Rolf, you have the lack of drive of a stand-up community. You really do have that lazy spirit of a comic. Like it took me like 19 years to build a website. No, well, thankfully I had a friend years ago helped me. The brother of mine, my cigarette. I did roll myself. Right. Right. Nice job. No, but actually I, and I'm also a little bit like, I like to change the subject. I like to wander around and get lost. So I wrote my third book is about the ghetto boys. You know this, right? I wrote a 33 and a third book about the ghetto boys. What's 33 and third? Oh, it's a series of books by Bloomsbury academic about famous music albums, right? What's 33 and third besides one third? Well, it's the revolutions per minute of a long playing record. 33 and third revolutions per minute. And so they named this series of music books, but like I made no money from that book. And actually, I wrote a book about the ghetto boys. I didn't write a book about like some super popular band from the 90s. It was this obscure Houston Bushwick boys. Yeah, I mean, which would bill up bill at 12 obscure ginks and Willie D Scarface, who's probably the most famous and then DJ Ready Red. Two of those guys are now deceased. Anyway, so I wrote like my third book is about a gangster rap album that nobody listened to and was really offensive. But I thought it was interesting because on my first vagabonding trip, I went to Houston, not to see the Johnson Space Center, but because I wanted to see fifth ward that was the ghetto boy sang about, right? Okay. So this is why this is in the no agent side of my career. Nobody's read that book because it's it's I'm proud of it, but it's about a weird topic. It's about cycle. It's the psychological approach to Houston. Basically, this ties into what we're talking about. That's what you're into. So travel writing and the travel industry. You talk a lot about this where it has changed the idea of travel. It tells you you can't go to Houston for that. You have to go for barbecue. But it's like be true to yourself. Like this is what I'm interested in. So why do do these other things? That's why I have a book about a gangster rap group because when I went to Houston, I was mostly interested in seeing these neighborhoods that they wrapped about. And so I went to those neighborhoods. And it was interesting. And it was actually it was interesting going back to those neighborhoods 20 years later and writing and researching the book. Because why shouldn't you go to a place of part of the town that's called dangerous? I mean, you wouldn't go there in the middle of the night, but you go there and it's still bad or the barbecue is justified. Well, no, it's actually identified a little bit. But it's just it's a poor part of town. And poor people have to eat. So you go to a restaurant there. And this is a crazy thing. I don't think it made it into the book. I met dudes on horseback. We were sort of just like black dudes in the neighborhood writing on horseback. They have horse clubs in Houston in the poor parts of Houston. Black rodeo people are most interesting. And that's part of the culture. So basically, I was able to see a side of Houston because of the ghetto boys that nobody ever seeks out unless they're poor people living there. Right. And so my point is not to be a warrior going into the poor part of Houston. But it's like, I really wanted to see what it was like in that part of Houston. Okay. But if you're into art and you come to Paris, it's obviously set up for that mostly. Right. Yeah. If you're into, I'm trying to think it's small. New York has this. Berlin has it. Berlin has it a lot. There's something. Whatever you're into, there's a scene. So there's a ping-pong scene in New York. And so if you're way into ping-pong or jazz. There's ping-pong tables about 300 yards that way. Outdoor ones. If you bring your pals, you can play. Well, in Luxembourg, near Luxembourg gardens. So yeah, so you did travel in Houston to honor what you're into. I did it at the time. Like I was living in a van. I was 23 years old. It's like, I don't want to go to a junction space center and NASA interests me. But the get a boy scared me. Like I would listen to this album and this is, I really wanted to see what they were, it was like, they were singing about this neighborhood as if it was the land of mortar or something. It was, it was so over the top. Right. Anyway, that was my, this is all an illustration of why I'm not a very good professional writer. That I wrote a money that I made a book that I made no money on. It's about an obscure Houston gangster rap group that I was interested in when I was 23. But my wife said, why don't you get an agent? Why don't you write a book that is successful as vagabonding instead of just writing these weird random books? Yeah. My souvenir had the same publisher as the other voice book. Well, here's the problem with any artist, writers are, it's that you get influenced to do what's, one would get influenced to do what is financially better for you. Yeah. Yeah. But that's not what you would do artistically if it was like, there's no money in this. You would do what you're interested in. Right. So wait a while, you're fucking art, man. Yeah. In a weird way. You know, I was telling my wife, it would have made sense if I would have met her 10 years earlier. I could have gotten married when I was 40 instead of 50. She says it would have been a bad time to meet. But so yeah, I wrote some weird books. I wrote a comic book. But then I read the Daily Stoke. I realized I got a good agent. And then I realized I've been sitting on these travel quotes. I've been thinking about travel for 25 years. I've written one successful travel book. What if instead of going broad, I go deep and each day has its own less, each day of the year has its Daily Stoke style lesson about travel. And so I pitched this book. It sold very quickly. One advantage of selling a book that sells 300,000 copies is that your agent can just go to the publisher and say, by the way, do you want another book by this guy who's who's thrown 300,000 copies, right? It's way easier to take a chance on that. Yeah. Take a chance on some guy. So it was easy for me to sell this book because random ass is like, oh, yeah, you're right. This has sold a lot of copies. Yeah, we'll give, we'll, we'll give him another book. So then basically, I had all these quotes and ideas in my commonplace book. And I spent eight months, well, actually, I got married. I said, can you let me have a honeymoon? They said, sure. Kiki and I went to Colorado for a honeymoon. And then I came back and started writing. And when she went to Brooklyn to pick up her things, she had an apartment as an actress in Brooklyn. Yeah, were you met her? I was writing chapters of the book in the pickup while we were driving from Kansas to Brooklyn. So this book, part of it was written in Colorado, part of it was written in Kansas, part of it was written in Brooklyn on, on I 70 in Ohio. Do they give, do they give you a, when you're writing a book, do they give you a deadline and say, we want this many chapters by this? That's so it's like, you have to follow their schedule. Yeah, but it's funny. Writers are so flaky that they sort of give you sort of fake deadlines. It's like, we went this book by October. Well, I didn't, I wasn't finished with the book by October. It's like, I can maybe get it by November. That's like, yeah, fine. And then in November, I wasn't done. This is November 2021. They're like, yeah, that's fine. So I handed in the manuscript on December 21 and they're like, cool. And then Basically, the book is coming out of October, 2022. They sort of tricked me. They basically gave me a one year ahead of publication deadline, knowing that most writers are gonna turn them in way late. So I was two months late on my deadline, but I was still like four months sooner than most writers would do it, because artistic temperance are not very good with organization. And so my wife will tell you, like I was writing seven days a week, those last two months, but I've got it done. I'm having with the book. This is my first hardcover book. Like this is an advanced reader's copy. This is my first book that will be-- - That's what it goes. - That's what it goes. - Ari has the special advanced reader's edition. - You will not be getting the copy with this black letter in on top. Saying advanced, uncorrected proofs, not for sale. - Not for sale. - I will see about that. - October 4th, right? So on eBay, when I get hit by a bus. But yeah, this will be a hardcover book. So this is like, this is my first growing up book. Like I was a kid. I was barely out of my 20s when Vagabon and came out. I was just happy to have a book. Now, yeah, like they hired an artist to make the cover. - It was a place. - It's a fictional place. They basically wanted to create desired. It's like an old 1930s travel poster. But instead of putting a person, it's just like they wanted to create a landscape into which you can dream yourself. - This reminds me of two spots in the world. - Really? - Yeah. Edinburgh, there's a Arthur Sea Hollywood park. Arthur Sea is at the top of Hollywood Park. If you go over the backside, there's just old ruins of an outlook post. And as you can go see probably what you would do down there. And then also maybe Camelback Mountain or somewhere in near Phoenix. - Okay. - There's one of these stone structures. You can just sit out there and smoke a J. And just be still enough where the squirrels at Chamosco are right up to you. - Okay. - Because you haven't moved in too long. - Right. - Yeah, both those places, more Edinburgh, 'cause of the green. - Well, that means it's working, because we made it intentionally non-specific. Because you could put a picture of the Eiffel Tower on it, but it's like, well, it's a book about basically, we designed the cover and they actually hired a British artist to make this cover, unlike vagabonding, which is like a picture of me on a $5 camera that somebody had taken, one of my friends had taken when I was walking through the desert. And so we decided to create a cover that would make people dream themselves into this landscape. So that ideally when someone's reading this book, there might be reading about a Japanese traveler from 800 years ago or Thomas Swick who wrote a book 10 years ago, but they're thinking about their own travels. And that's why vagabonding was successful, I think, because people read vagabonding, and I talk about my own experiences, but they dream their own experiences. Same with this book that, hopefully, when people read this book, they'll think, yeah, this could be me. Yeah, this may have been a traveler who lived 500 years ago, and he was feeling nervous about going to Jerusalem out of the city of Ulm. And I feel nervous about this, but travelers always felt that way. It's relatable, yeah. It's about the human experience of what it's like to people. There's a theory I made for standup, where instead of going like, hey, men do this, just go, I do this. And then the men can relate. Yeah, but you're not alienating the women, because some women also relate to your like, whatever the thing is you do. It was like, oh, 80% men, but 20% of men were like, I've never done that. Well, there's a lot of women quoted in this. I intentionally got a lot of, and global writers are African writers. There's Chinese and Indian and Japanese writers. So basically, what I tried to evoke without going straight out and saying is that the human experience of travel hasn't, isn't that different from continent to continent and century to century? That's a century to century, yeah. It's easier to travel now, but what's special about travel hasn't changed since the 15th century or the first century. So there's one in, I think, vagabonding one. Let's call it that, right? That is about addiction to internet. And when you're on the road, and I think I've told you this like one time, my Danish friend spent all night up on Facebook. Not you, it was just one night she did it. And wasn't able to tire to go out on our trek with us the next day, wherever we went. It was in Myanmar. And it's like, hey, and she's like, and for what? To check in on shit, like dumb shit from back home. It wasn't like I was doing business or anything like that. It was just an addiction. You heard about some guy, super rich guy who got a train, I think, across America. And he brought us stenographers, we get all the news. Yeah, that's in this book. That's in this book. It is. It's in the other one too, I think. It's JP Morgan. JP Morgan, yeah. And he, he, this was, this was more than 100 years ago. So he got like a, a teletype machine. He got, he could do cable grams from his train car in Egypt. He went to Egypt and his companions are like, what, what the hell is wrong with JP? He's just in his train car sending telegrams. Call me internet all day. He was keeping up with his stocks. He was like worried about his stock prices. And it's like, this is, this is the pyramid. This is the ancient genius of humanity. And you are inside your car because it's convenient sending cable grams, right? Yeah. And so that's why I have my phone in my pocket right now. This came, and actually I don't have my data plan. So smart, smart, because I only works with Wi-Fi. I put my, I put mine on. I was like, I'll let me make sure I have whatever I call whatever. And I was like, what a mistake. Because now I can go on and check instead of like, oh, I'm going to cafe. Let me see if I can get on the Wi-Fi and return something real quick. But in between I can't. And then I'll just have to figure it out. I fucked up. The only time it was good is when I was down to like 1% battery two days ago, and I'm like, oh, shut up. I just got to find a metro station and figure it out. Yeah. But that's also your head is down so much when you're, when you're, when you have your phone. When your head is up, suddenly it's like, are they rock and roll dancing in that square? Is this guy painting a picture? What is that? Yeah. But suddenly you're, so you have to see in the world through this screen that you're not seeing the world that's right in front of your eyes, right? I do a thing where I'll check, I'll just check a YouTube upload. I'm like, let me see if it's doing like with, with views and some, just see what it's, what the numbers are like. And I was going to see what last week's podcast was and it was in my flat. And I went to, and I stopped myself. There's only a few moments where I win, you know, I'm like, what am I doing? It doesn't matter. It's going, as it's going. I just slammed it and just went out and went to a cafe. Yeah. But like, what do you like? What are you like? What are you looking at the stats? You're wasting your time. Your podcast stats too. But at home, in fucking, an hour outside of witch top five, what else is going on? The grass is going to grow regardless if you watch it or not. No, but like, no, one great thing about having my first date with my wife on my own deck is that we can go out to that deck and there's a beautiful view and we can just sort of breathe in the moment. And actually the reason we read the daily stoke together is we wanted to have, we wanted to start each day like reading to each other. So we would read like Mary Oliver poems or Tick Not Han meditations or stoke meditations. And it forced us to be in a place and it occurred to me just now. It's been a while since I've sat this long in Luxorburg Gardens. And I've seen all this, it's a touristy place. But it's gorgeous though. I mean, we're looking in the other direction, but it's beautiful away from the camera as well. And so by the nature of having a conversation with you and this sort of a informed conversation, but I'm able to to be still in Luxorburg Gardens for the first time in a long time. And my wife and I figured out a way to be still on our own porch by reading poems or meditations to each other. And it forces us to actually do this with cigars that it forces you to be still and endure a moment. You got an hour. Yeah. Yeah. And so probably six days a week, we still try to do that to read to each other. It forces us to be in a moment and experience in it. And similarly travelers the same way. And so that's in that's in Boring, Kansas. That's in my beloved home state that doesn't have this excitement going on. So why on earth would you wake up and look at your phone and have the rest of your day dictated by that, right? It's easier said than done to put your phone down. But you have this, you know, why do you need? I went on love line once and Dr. Drew told me something about he called marijuana addiction. I've already heard him say this and I was like, Hey, I got to stop you because I've heard it. Talk about that. And he goes, Oh, okay. He goes, sure. He's your friends with Joe Rogan, right? I'm like, yeah, he goes, so listen, Rogan and you already, I'm sure you can like smoke weed and write a new bit or go out and do your chores because there's a lot of people who can't smoke weed and stay in their apartment all day. Don't do anything. Play video games and like their day passed them by when they wanted to do something, right? And he goes, that's the addiction when it's getting in the way of your life and the cell phone addiction. That's what it is. It's like, I know that I'm only in Paris for two weeks, 13 days and every moment I'm on this dumb thing, right, unless it's straight for work where I can justify it, it's an addiction taking you out of it. It's not helping you. It's hurting you. And it's an addiction which previous generations of travelers were not tempted by. JP Morgan was the patient zero of this. He was rich enough to put a telegraph in his train car in Egypt and it ruined his trip. People were with him like, this dumbass didn't see any of Egypt because he was worried about the same shit as at home. Actually, this came up recently. I have sort of a weed specific thing in vagabonding where it's like, weed is like TV. You can do it, but you don't need to do it. You don't need to enhance every experience. I've recently felt a little bit bad about this. It felt like that was sort of a push back against the baby boomer travelers who came before me when I wrote the book. And they're like, dude, you know, well, I wanted to push back and say, you don't need, you're in Thailand. You know, you're in New Zealand. You don't need to smoke weed to enhance this moment. So I have that. It doesn't say don't smoke weed, but it says, you're half to smoke weed. You're not in Dayton, Ohio. And so, you know, I started writing an essay. You told me it's some good advice of like, I'll give you a chapter and you're like, oh, half of the. these are like essays. - Yeah. - Like take this out. And he goes, but you're like, he, you're like, don't lose it. It's a good essay. Embellish that and then you have an essay, separate from your story. And so I was writing up this essay of worst travelers and Chinese number one. And then I was writing, I was like, that's not to say they're all, I have met two different Chinese person. And one was in Pi, these two Chinese guys, away from their group, you'll rarely find them. Got me high and we talked about what parents will expectations in China. - So it's like, if I'm seeking out weed, it takes me out of the thing. If it's like, comes up, sure, sure. This is, it's cool, man. You know, if you're on Amsterdam, it's like, absolutely going to a coffee shop. - That's a good point. That's a good point. No, but it is, it's almost like, it's like a cell phone and you have dumb habits at home with your cell phone. You're watching the same dumb Instagram accounts. Why should you look up Instagram and Paris? If you smoke weed because you hate your job and you're bored in Ohio or Texas, why would you do it because you're not bored here? And so maybe, yeah, if it catches you by surprise, if there's this cool Chinese vagabond, vagabonder who comes and says, you know, let's smoke a joint and talk about life, then that is a better opportunity than using it as the crutch, right? And I'm not saying that it's not, this is not exclusive to weed and smartphones. It's, it is any habit that you bring with yourself that is getting in the way of the raw vulnerability of travel. - Right. - You're putting, you're throwing a joint or a cell phone screen between these new experiences that you could be having, right? - Yeah, you'll see it like some chuds, like, well, like, hey, we're all gonna smoke weed. I'm like, I'm in the middle of a conversation. And I've done it where I'm like, oh, let me make sure I smoke. - Right. - But it's like, no, you fucked up. But other times, like, I'm bored, like you wanna smoke weed, like, sure. - And it goes back, how old are you starting smoking weed? Late college, and then, like, only a couple times, and then, like, once I became a comic. - A lot of friends in junior high who smoked weed, which is when I sort of decided that I wasn't gonna do it because I didn't wanna be like those guys. And then, but then, I think a lot of people start smoking weed so young that it's like their TV or it's like their smartphone, that they, they very unimaginably do it. They do it because they're bored. - Yeah. - And, yeah, so it was interesting to hear you say the doctor drew thing, because a part of me feels bad. You know, now that weed is legal and, but I think it still can be a traveler's crutch in the same way that a smartphone is a traveler's crutch. Or the desire to have an ice cream cone or a pizza when you're in a country that doesn't really make ice cream or pizza, you know. - I just stopped, I was getting ready for my special, I just stopped smoking weed for about six weeks. - Okay. - 'Cause I was coming home in Jacksonville back to my apartment, or my Airbnb I was staying in, and I was gonna smoke. - Jacksonville, Florida, is where you filmed it. - No, no, I was just getting ready and it was one of the weeks I had on the road. No, underrated town, though, the beach there is nice. But I was like, I know what's gonna happen, under smoke weed, I'm gonna watch Family Guy, and I have to go over my notes. I have to go over this and like say what's extra and what's not, and I won't do it if I get high. So I was like, oh, I'm not gonna get high tonight. And then I was like, what am I doing? Is it too important? I got a not smoke weed on them with a special. - Well good for you. - Yeah. - When is your special come out? Before this comes out, I think, or right around when it comes out. Are you sure if you're a Jew, guys? Watch it now. It's available on smartphones, computers, and television sets. - Yeah, on platforms everywhere. - On platforms, yeah. And then we might do, I'm gonna try and talk you and do an event with me in KGB in New York on November 14th. I mean, I'm gonna do it with or without you. I'm gonna do it, but if you can join me, yeah. - Absolutely. So you wrote this book. - Maybe by that time you will finish the book. - I will. (laughing) - I love it, it's really interesting. And it's also really good right before bed reading. - Yeah. Well, it's really dense. Again, vagabonding you can go through an afternoon, you would be cheating yourself by belonging through this in an afternoon. But it is written in stoner-sized chunks. - Yeah. You ever do this thing where you're like reading a book and you get to a chapter and you leaf a head to see how many pages it is? You were like, oh, I don't have 29 pages in me right now. - Right. - This is one page. - Yeah. No, I do that with Kindle sometimes. It's like, I have 15 minutes left. Or, you know, 15 minutes or pages anyway. It's just like, nah, where this is, there's one page, one day to think, oh, are they closing down, they're closing down the park? Well, I guess there goes our Luxembourg. - What time is it? It must be, the clock is ringing, that the police are gonna kick us out of the, yeah. - Do they know we're filming in a United States podcast? - All right. - It's the podcast police. No, it's nine o'clock and they're telling us to leave. - It's not a clock? - Yeah. - God, it stays light out here, right? - Okay. I wanna talk a little bit about, we can go to a cafe, about the coming home and how little everyone cares because I have started a podcast called UV Trippin that you'll will do. - Oh, is that the name of the podcast? - UV Trippin, yeah. - I'm standing up out of the frame of the camera. I just, I want the cops to know that we do mean to leave. - Yeah, you gotta like make efforts and like. - No one gives a fuck about your travels, you wrote about in vagabonding. I'm assuming you're gonna write about it here. - Oh, when you come home and nobody gives a shit, yeah. - I care still and I wanna hear people's travel stories. - Okay. - So that's what it is. - That's 'cause you're a traveler. - Maybe. - No one gives a shit and I give a shit and you can talk to me. I might change a subject, talk about work shit. - Yeah. People who haven't done it don't get it and so that's why they're bad to bring it up with. But yeah, I mean, I think the question, like for our travel conversation, this podcast is when, it's already nine o'clock, when do we end? Because what can you not talk about? Like, we barely talked about three countries right now. - So, where do we leave off? We were so rudely chased away by those. - It was the nine clock. - We walked like, probably five miles to the kick out of the park. - We walked so much looking for a cafe that was not packed. - And we failed. - We failed. - And now we're on a famous pedestrian bridge that crosses from the left bank to the right bank. - Of the San River. - Of the San River, right? - Why is it called left bank right like when that is north and that is south? - I don't know, so that's north. I'm not sure, maybe it's like upstream downstream thing. - Maybe, maybe it curves up over there. - Left bank, I don't know. I feel like I'm failing my way. - Like the 101 North goes directly west for a while. - Right. - But then eventually it cuts back north. Maybe it's that. - I think maybe it flows out this way into the Atlantic eventually, and so the left bank would be when you're going downstream, the left bank would be the left wall downstream. I don't know, I'm babbling about things about which I do not know, but it's fun to speculate on your podcast. - Okay, so let's get to the end of it. You gotta get the new book, "Vagabond's Way." To me, it read a lot like "Vagabond" in the way that it filled me with this sort of like, "Shit, I gotta get back out there." It's philosophically, it's philosophically the same as "Vagabond." It just goes, it goes deeper in different ways. It takes 365 little themes and meditations about travel and it goes deep with them. - What are the sections? They're split up into two month sections. January, February is preparing. - Yeah, inspiration and planning. - Getting started on the road. - Getting started on the road, then probably the long haul. Actually, it's funny, I've sort of said that I didn't, Tim Ferriss told me not to write "Vagabond" too and I thought, "Okay, that makes sense." Then I wrote this, but it has a lot of parallels to "Vagabonding." It structurally, it sort of also deals with different phases of the journey. It's also very much about time wealth and spending your time well and time experiences that go beyond expectations. But yeah, time wealth is huge. The idea that time is really all you own, that you're given so much time on earth and you should find ways to make it rich. - Yeah, there was a, quote, a section or a day about Chappelle and how we walked away from $50 million. - Yeah, yeah. - And I remember this and it hit me that the same thing was happening. To me, I had a small section of it where I'm like, "No, you're not gonna tell me how to do my, "I'm just like stop my show." But everyone said you have mental disorders 'cause how else could you walk away from $50 million? - Right. - And it's just like, the quote was, not from him, but from someone else, like if you're a ladder of success, if you've reached the top of your ladder of success you don't feel fulfilled, maybe your ladder's on the wrong building. - You hung it against the wrong wall. That's actually Thomas Merton. He's the same guy who said, "People ask me if I've seen the real Asia." Actually, it's all real to me, right? Well, he was a, he was a trappist monk and he also wrote this, it was a famous quote that if you get to the top of your ladder of success and you're not happy, it's probably leaning against the wrong wall. That's a paraphrase. And so what happened with Dave Chappelle, I remember this happened and you probably know him professionally, but he had this huge, like this unprecedented offer for Comedy Central. And then he left, he didn't fulfill it. He went to South Africa and people said, "Oh, he's on drugs, he's suicidal, whatever." And then years later it's like, "No, I was just trying to, like, I didn't feel happy. I was super successful, but in a way that meant nothing to me." And I just wanted a place to be away from this milieu of success and think about things. And I think, feel like he sent it himself in a way, I don't know Dave Chappelle, but he moved back to Ohio. He moved back to Kansas, he moved back to a place where he was comfortable, he had a connection to his youth and he raised his family. I went back to Kansas after traveling the world, I've written more books, but I found a place that is more in accord with my time wealth, which is different from being a successful author. It's one thing to be a successful author, it's another thing to be a happy author, right? And so I found ways. Oh, here's the party boat. Is that the, uh, oh my god. Is that a punishes? Yeah, so it's like a, it's like a party booth. They always scream underneath each bridge. Well, because it echoes back on them. That's why I was like, do they tell them to scream? It's like honking in a tunnel, right? Ever been with one of those people who honks when they drive through tunnels? Yeah, it's very annoying. It's very annoying. I'm probably especially in that New York adjacent tunnels. Oh, this is a full tower. Tip top of it. Yeah, and it's going to glitter. It glitters on the hour. Do you know what? I'll check my time. Yeah. On every, after dark, every hour, it starts to glitter. Oh, well, it's 10/07. So it just stops. So I missed it. Fuck. It's impossible. To finish up that Dave Chappelle had the trappings of material success, but wasn't happy. And I think I believe that he found a way to be happier and do his own thing. And I think. Is that same thing is where is your ladder of success? Which wall is your ladder of success leaned against? Yeah. Because if it's not leaned against a wall where you feel good about yourself when you're at the top of the ladder, maybe you should find another wall to lean a ladder against. Duncan Russell told me this, the Buddhist and comedian. When I was fighting with Comedy Central a little bit, and they were trying to rush me into new seasons of a show. And I was like, I want to do things. I want to see. And Duncan was like, so. You want to go see the world? And I'm like, yeah, and he goes, and they want you to not see the world. And I'm like, yeah, he goes. I mean, do we have to keep talking? That's like, you're right. That's a very well done Duncan. That's very wise observation. Because, and I think the entertainment industry doesn't realize, there's people who play the game. And people who don't. And actually, I think you found ways to be successful in a way that, and be true to yourself, right? That you, this podcast being one of them, you know, having sort of connecting with your fans in a very specific way, meant that you didn't have to be beholden to whatever Comedy Central wants you to do. There's also like I had this yesterday. I have a clarity. I don't know if you get this when you're traveling. Just, just, maybe it's because you're away from all the noise of home, the drama, politics, the news. But like, I'll just have moments of clarity when I'm gone. And one of them two days ago was like, I'm trying to plan this like, I want to tour Europe, but it's been a while. But also, I'm so far behind in touring America and all the spots I want to do there. And there's more money we made in America. And then hit me like, I'm going to Europe in April. I'll still make more money than I made when I was five years into Comedy. Like, what am I even talking about? I'm going to go see Europe again. I'm going to Finland for the first time. Like, why would I not? That's a good thing to keep in perspective. You know, I think that there's a certain, we both sort of have artistic pursuits that are rewarded by certain types of public exposure. And financial reward. I think a lot of vagabonding people are working in jobs that they're sort of ambivalent about. It's not their dream job. But then it's like, where are you going to split? What's going to make you happy? Is it the beige house in the suburbs? Yeah. You know, is it having your kids in the baseball league that cost $2,000 a season? Like, what is it? Yeah. And so I think. You're going to remodel your bathroom again. You're filling a hole, dude. No, no, that's it. And so I think that there's sort of a person who's not necessarily following the artistic ambition, but is playing the game of success. We got to think about where your ladder is leaning on that, too. It's like, yeah, sure, sure. You could get a 3,500 square foot house in the suburbs. Or you could just live simply. Or you could move to Southeast Asia for half the year. Or you could move to Paris. And some of my former students do this. They just. well, they have friends who say, well, you know, we travel for two months a year. We're based in Paris. But we travel two months a year. Come house it for us. And you can stay there for free. And so there's just anywhere in the world. There's ways to finagle a more location and dependent life. I mean, if you have kids, it's a little bit more complicated. But yeah. It is more complicated with kids, for sure. There's ways to do it, though. I've seen people travel with families. Oh, yeah. I've seen people travel well with families. And travel happily with families in ways that are cheaper than sending your kid to boarding school. So, I guess, all right. Yeah, exactly. Damn, there's more I want to do with you, but like, I won't. Are we running low on battery? Oh, it's just going long, but like this. All right. Let's try to keep going. Well, you could edit it. No, it's not that. I could split into two podcasts. We all do that. People listen to it. I feel like 5% of people are listening now. Versus who started with it. All right. Well, there's a shit. I want you to describe this. There's a feeling of freedom that I've not been able to describe to people that comes with that I found later a complete lack of responsibility that you get when you're traveling. Where I don't have to go anywhere. I don't have to see anything. I'm free to go and do whatever I want. So like, it's just feeling. I don't know. I don't know. Do you know what I'm talking about? I do. And in DevTales with like the vulnerability and the willingness to not plan that we're talking about. Because it's one thing to wake up in a city like Paris and have 10 things in your to-do list. It's nothing to wake up. Go down, drink, drink a coffee, and just sort of let the day happen. Yeah. And realize that I can do whatever the hell I want. Like, nobody here knows me. I could talk to this pretty girl or I could go to this rock concert. It's. And I think you feel it strongly when you're in your early days as a traveler. Yeah. Like in your youngest days as a traveler. But I often find myself trying to recreate that. Where it's just like, I want to have that day that is special and nothing counts. And because nothing counts, anything can happen. You just, yeah, you just, you can go and do whatever. I just, it's just, it's, money's never bought me that. I guess enough money that I could like not have to come back to a job has bought me that. But it's not that much. Use what money you have to buy yourself the time freedom to do what you love. Yeah. And maybe it's not travel. Maybe some people don't love it. Some people like don't care about it. Yeah. Some people don't care about the outdoors and some people do. But man, it's just great when you have nobody to go. It happens after like a week or two usually. Yeah, what your initial anxieties wear off and pretty soon. Yeah. You are fully present and you realize you can do anything. Yeah. Anyway, I love it. I got to figure out a way to really describe it to people. All right, let's wrap it up. We can do one more location too. But I mean, we can go back to the apartment and find a cafe. I mean, this is pretty classic, but I don't know if. Let's see if that's a way to wrap up in the sunset. I feel like they can see us. Okay, the cameras now are fucking crazy. But anyway, the book is the vagabonds way. Guys, just get it. There's a link at the bottom of the screen or the bottom of the podcast. You can buy it. Kindle audio book or the real book. You can't fit in your pocket and walk around with it. But like the other one who can't roll it up and stick it in there. But it's great. It's great reading. And it has already gotten me. Two and a half chapters in has gotten me the fucking right away though. It was like, I gotta get the fuck out of here. Yeah, if you dream of travel, it's a book for you. Yeah. Or if you know someone who does, it's the. Yeah, I've bought vagabonding for a bunch of people. Yeah. Where I'm like, just, I think you'd love this. You should read it. I know you've talked about wanting to go to New Zealand or something like that. Just read this book and see what it does to you. I feel like this will do that same thing. Yeah, I say in the introduction chapter. If you stop reading it because it doesn't fit in your bag for a trip, if you decide you could no longer take, then this is your book. Yeah. Then the book is done as a job, right? Yeah. Huh. Anyway, travel's amazing. It's cool to be in Paris doing this. Thank you for getting me here. I would not have come without you. You've had one. Let's have you write some kick ass essay so you can have your book. We'll come back and we'll do a podcast about your book. There you go. Thanks. You're travel book. Yeah. Deadline actually very much helped me finish a little bit of it. What did? Deadline. You got to submit this by this date. I'm like, ah, I'll work on that. The process is so much different for what you're for versus comedy. Yeah. It's a different monster. All right. Bye. Thank you. Thank you. Oh. Ah. Oh my god. Ah. Look out. Whoa. Well, that is the episode everybody. That's so fucking cool. Oh. It completely flipped over. It's a fucking titan. Look out. It's so blue on the bottom. Oh. Whoa. Oh. Is it? Oh, is that one? What the hell? Whoa. It's like fat chicks having a bath. Like the fucking kind you cut out of the house with a crane. That kind of fat chick having a fucking bath. You got to put them in a lake to get. Whoa. wow okay well thank you Rolf Potts for coming in go to his writing workshop in Paris every summer oh my god it's the best you guys should really take it he'll tell you how to express this stuff I don't know how to express nature other than videos or pictures activities and stuff yeah but not not nature whoa cabin C-A-L-V-I-N-G take his Paris writing workshop like I did like small brain-american did every summer in this city that this episode was it go to ParisWritingWorkshops.com I am going to go back to another one I loved it you should do his podcast deviate with Rolf Potts I've been on a lot and his books the vagabonds way when you want to feel it you know vagabonding when you want to plan it and marker poll it didn't go there when you want to when you want to hear about it Instagram @RolfPotts follow them let them know that you love this episode and how cool he is ask him any questions damn that was cool and YouTube at vagabonding 2017 he's barely on YouTube guys by the way I should tell you I don't think I've ever told you this before happy New Year's by the way I'm on you know a lot of comics they they they won different platforms it was a Dane Cook one Myspace crystallia one vine Jorogan one podcast I want to win none of those who on YouTube Andrew Schultz well I'm fixing to win all trails yeah I'm on all trails you should follow me and never tell anybody I'm on all trails follow me at orish affair and I've got a ton of reviews on there of stuff like this I'm on this trail right now it's actually the most up-to-date way to find me about time this comes out happy New Year's I'll be you know I won't be here anymore but all trails I'll post this today you'll know exactly what day I did it yeah all trails dot com slash why don't it's a slash but orish affair find me on there I think I'd appear myself in front of much of each other that's on all trails thank you very much Alan Kathy for editing this episode this is so cool how crazy this is how much different Patagonia is from the intro bumper to the now bumper to the outro this is all part of the same region more or less Alan Kathy for editing today's episode why am I for producing the episode and all episodes next week Katie Nolan will be on and we're going to talk about all the barriers to to to traveling yourself as a New Year's resolution episode the trippies will be in two weeks because I won't have time for it but happy New Year everybody thank you for successful 2005 and that reason this isn't nominated for best pictures or best episode is only because it was a reboot from Scarie Schubert skeptic a now defunct podcast that was so cool that was cool oh so cool you can like hear parts like smash it please subscribe wherever you're watching listen guys this is a this is a YouTube podcast I don't know anything it's more of a YouTube podcast than this one all right well thank you very much Rolf Pots the fucking man if I'm if he's a 10 travel I'm like about a seven or six and a half I travel for comedy I'm a 14 but like for life I'm not the god damn you know Tim Ferriss owes his whole fucking career to all thoughts he credits it with him he's been on broke his Ben on the Tim Ferriss podcast a bunch this Tim was like reading Vagabond it was like it's freed me I would like to say about myself too but I was already in Cambodia four months of trip while I was reading it but it did like legitimize what I was doing god damn this is cool my hands are cold let's call this an episode I'm done thank you for it look at hey fuck yo dude does it work yo this bike rolls next week see you guys wow