Ute & Lorenz Moser – Lessons from a Lifetime in Orthodontic Practice

[Music] Welcome to another episode of the European Orthodontic podcast where we will be diving into the theme of old school uniting the past and present, talking about quality, sound decision making, clinical outcomes, humility, and how to keep your patient right at the centre of your treatment and treatment decisions. My name is Finn Gagan. I am a council member of the European Orthodontic Society and this year I'll be the president of the European Orthodontic Society for our meeting which will take place for the first time in Dublin in June 2026. This podcast is brought to you by the European Orthodontic Society, committed to advancing orthodontics through science, collaboration and education. Today I'm delighted to welcome two distinguished figures in European orthodontics, Dr. Ute Schneider-Mosa and Dr. Lorenz-Mosa. Dr. Schneider-Mosa is from Germany originally, earned her DDS in mines and moved to Italy where together with Dr. Moser, she built a practice recognised for excellence and interdisciplinary focus. She's a specialist in orthodontics from the University of Ferrara and has served as president of major Italian and European orthodontic societies. Lorenz trained in Austria, first as a doctor, then as a dentist. He has also been practising in Lorenzal in Bolzano since the mid 1980s and holds diplomatic credentials with both the European and Italian boards. He has held leadership roles such as Secretary of the Angles Society of Europe and both remain deeply engaged in teaching and research. Welcome to you both. It's a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you for this. It was a wonderful introduction. It's a privilege to be with you this afternoon. No, it's really great. I know you're busy but it's been super to have this opportunity because we've seen a bit of each other over the last year, both at the Irish meeting and in Germany with Björn Ludwig, where we had the genesis for this idea. Thanks for agreeing to do it and thanks for talking to us on a Friday evening in November. Again, it's our pleasure, Finn. It's a great pleasure and we are enjoying it. Brilliant. Now, what I would like to do is what I pretty much always do is I ask people how in earth they ended up doing orthodontics. But in your case, what I might say is, A, we'll talk about orthodontics, but also how you ended up moving from two separate countries to another country to practice and have your career. So first, Ute, you are from from mines or you studied in mines? I'm from Frankfurt, born and raised and I have my dental degree from mines as you correctly stated. Absolutely. That's true. And then you want to hear my story? Shall I continue? Yeah, tell me your story. So the story is that, George, the end of Dentist 3 of my Dentistry study, I wanted to become a periodontologist. I was very interested in periodontology because I had listened during the last year to Robert Van Astel, who gave a brilliant talk in Karlsruhe at the Academy. So if you know this education forum funded by Professor Hainas, this was in the mid-70s, I think. And Robert Van Astel gave an excellent talk on the collaboration between periodontics and orthodontics. And I was really amazed because at that time periodontology was not so developed. And I said, I want to become a periodontologist. And then I have to say that I needed a dental treatment. And I went to my dentist in Frankfurt and Frankfurt at that time had a large military base, a big American military base. And he treated many Americans that came with a military and said, do you want to become a periodontologist? I think it would be a better idea to become an orthodontist. I know who one of the leading figures in German orthodontics is. He works very close by Frankfurt in Batzorden. And I have a very good contact. The name of the guy is Dr. Douglas Tohl. And you should go and see him and apply probably for a position. And I was interested and I went there. And indeed, Douglas Tohl, I don't know, have you ever heard of him? I've met him in the past on few occasions. Douglas was an American in Germany, was not right. That's absolutely right. He trained with Alan Brody. So he went to Chicago. And he was one of the first to introduce fixed orthodontic treatment in Germany because German has a long history of removable appliances, as you know. And so he opened a new horizon for me. And I said, oh, yeah, this is really the new thing. And I changed and I decided to become an orthodontist. So I applied for the position. He took me. And I was one year with him when I were meant Lawrence. And Lawrence can tell you now why he came and visited Dr. Tohl's office at that time. I may tell you my story. As you already introduced me, I went to medical school for first for six years. And then I got the specialization in the industry. And I thought to become a maxillofacial surgeon. Then the professor for orthodontics approached me telling me I should come to orthodontics instead of maxillofacial surgery because there is a shortage of orthodontists in our area. So I went to the south to the north to the north of Italy. And so he persuaded me to switch from my idea to become a maxillofacial surgeon to an orthodontist. I never thought honestly, I never, never thought to become an orthodontist because the lectures in orthodontics, they were so boring. So boring, so boring. Just it's true. I had the same experience. And unlike you guys who were advised by orthodontists, it was my mother who told me I should be an orthodontist. But I didn't listen to her at the time. I waited a few years to light extracted a few wisdom teas and I said my mother was right. So I had to give him the response after two days. And so I came to orthodontist just by accident. I was never thinking to become an orthodontist. So then I went to this department and very quickly I realized that I'm not going to learn anything here. So I was looking for the truth in orthodontics. And I was traveling all over, all over, all over. And so I came in touch with Douglas Thol and he invited me for one of his courses in Batsoden where I met this beautiful young girl. It was the best word that happened in my life. Going to Batsoden to looking for the truth in orthodontics and meeting my great love. You didn't find the truth but you found me. I didn't find the truth but I found you. That's the story of my orthodontic upbringing. Well, probably you have to say that I wasn't finishing. I was not in the finishing stage of orthodontics of my specialty. And you had already rented rooms in Bolzano for opening your office. And so it was a difficult decision to interrupt my orthodontic education and to move to Bolzano. And for many years I have to say that I suffered not being an orthodontic specialist. And very luckily Professor Giuseppe Cicilliani from the University of Ferrara where we were teaching once I asked me, "So what did you do your specialty degree in orthodontics? With it in mind?" And I said, "I have to admit I'm not a specialist in orthodontics." And he said, "Oh wow, you can't bear this. You absolutely have to do an orthodontic specialty program. Come to Ferrara and we'll be happy to have you because you need the specialty degree." And I'm really very, very grateful to Professor Cicilliani because I didn't feel well practicing orthodontics as more or less a general practitioner with a little bit of orthodontic knowledge in my backpack. And so I did my specialty training years later. Okay. Yeah, I think you should know this because it can motivate people to go for a specialty degree even at a certain age. Yeah, that's a very interesting. Could I segue a little bit? I was going to have a geography lesson now. And this would be the first geography lesson. Can you both explain to me what square sodium? is and why it sounds Austrian but your Italians. Just for those people who maybe I'm overestimating or underestimating the geography but maybe for some of our listeners who aren't based in Europe. What is Soutiore? I was raised, I was born and raised in Soutiore. Soutiore became Italy after the first World War after 1918. And this region is a region where we have where we are bilingual. The capital of Soutiore is Bolzano. It's a city with about 100,000 people and here the percentage of Italian speaking population is 80% whereas on the countryside it's 90% German speaking and 10% Italian speaking. Soutiore was a quite poor part of Italy. Remote in the mountains but nowadays it's a part of Italy with the highest living standard. It's a beautiful part of Italy with embedded in the Dolomites and we have very enchanting landscapes and a driving economy. What has prompted that change? Why is it gone from being poor to wealthy? What were the major changes? I think that Italy treated us very well. We are an autonomy but we have been treated always very very well. Not like other parts in the world where autonomy is not treated very well. This can affect how we have to work. It's not true. If you look at your neighbouring country so you have Italy, Austria, Switzerland, Germany, France, every country has a significant public health care system. So the Germans have their Cassins system where the government will contribute a certain amount and you can pay extra for various different things in France. There's a similar where you get paid for malaclusion or a duration of treatment. How did you open your door? The patients who came to see you guys when you opened up, who were they and how did you get paid? That's a very very good question. When I opened my office in 86 I went visiting some dentists and they asked me, "Are you crazy to open, to go to open an exclusive Autorontic office? How will you survive doing just Autorontics?" But since I spent some months in the US I knew that the Autorontists can live very well with moving teeth. So I was very faithful when I started my office and six months later my beautiful wife came and so we were very very relaxed and knowing that we will have a successful, that we are going to be successful. You mentioned that the National Security System here in Italy and also in Saudi Arabia, we have no social system who is going to cover expenses for Autorontics, neither for dentistry. And this may be one factor that we have to provide the patient with very high standard. Because the patient they have to pay everything out of their own wallets and they want to see what they get for their money. Wondrous Tod. Yep. And this may be one of the reasons why Italy is one of the leading countries in the world nowadays in dentistry. And can I ask the patients you would see when you started? Are they different to the patients you see now? So where the patients you saw at the beginning where they all growing patients or where they are mixture and how has that changed as your careers have developed and your reputations have advanced etc to today's cohort of patients? That's another very very good question. We started immediately treating a dial patient as well. And immediately we sent many patients to maxi-lifation surgery. In our area nobody dared to treat patients in combination with maxi-lifation surgery. But we would and myself we had quite a good experience in treating these kinds of patients. And only four years later we have been invited was 1990. We have been invited to NYU where we gave our first one-day course in treating maxi-lifation patients. So we had a bunch of adult patients have treated with maxi-lifation surgery after few years. Of course we saw many many many kids and at the last sense but we were never afraid treating adults with skeletal problems or other problems. We jumped immediately into the into the cold water. Yeah but you have to say that we treated many adult patients also with heroic camouflage I would say. Because not all adult patients they accept surgery and you can be very strict and tell them either we do surgery or we don't touch you at all. But I remember that we treated many for example class two division two patients severe class two division two patients with camouflage treatment. And I remember that we treated very difficult period on tightest patients as well in the later stages. And as I have been always interested in periodontology I did some courses and we performed Whitman flaps and we performed gingery grafts at this time. These were the superficial epithelian grafts in order to boost the periodontium of these patients and to enhance the range or the envelope of our therapeutic means if the patient didn't accept surgery. So we did heroic camouflage as well but we always tried not to harm the underlying structures because of course we knew what is going to happen in the long term. And this is a point of interest for me and I just remind people what I said at the beginning. I heard you guys speak recently and you talked a lot about keeping the patient centered in your decision making, being humble in your approach. And I was going to ask is it like everything else in life as you get a bit more experience you realize that not everything is so black or so white and sometimes there's gray and sometimes as you move through your career there are things that become harder, decisions become harder because you're trying to answer what the patient's concern is not what you what you've come in with in your head. How do you evolve in your decision making when you talk there about someone who could come in for surgery but you did heroic camouflage. Can you explain that process? How you filters through your options, how you try to arrive at a decision that you think is best for that patient without heroic surgery. Let's just call it or you know how do we how do you how do you get there today? What is what is your process when you see an adult who comes to you with his skeletal discrepancy? Well of course the first thing you do is you perform your records and then you do a very thorough consultation with a patient and to evaluate all the possible options. Okay so you have to present the entire array of possible solutions to the patient and you have to tell them about the pros and cons of all these different approaches to the treatment and of course honesty prevails and of course modesty as well. Now we know even more than we knew when we opened our office about the envelope of the discrepancy and the limits we have and of course with all the experience we have gained in these 40 years we are becoming more relaxed. to perform heroic orthodontics. Even though the possibilities with connected tissue grafts or bone grafts, etc., etc., have augmented in the last decades. We have devices where we can, for example, distillize the upper dentition in order to come on phlasal severe claspedal discrepancy, but still most of the clasped tools are mandibular problems that would need in adult patient, probably mandibular advancement surgery. But not all the patients, because they have associated health issues, for example, or they simply cannot face due to psychological reasons, or probably even, because they can't afford it. But we have to say that the facial surgery in Italy is paid for by the government. So you have to come up with the tailored solution for the individual patient, but you have to be honest. There's usually not the best solution for the patient without some drawbacks. And the patient has to be informed, and only then the patient is able to come to a decision that is best for him or her. So you said something interesting there. So you yourself and Lorenz mentioned that within Germany, and the healthcare system does not take care of, doesn't pay for dentistry or orthodontics, but maxillofacial surgery is something that the government will take care of. - Yes, strangely, this is the only thing that is paid for by the government. And the patient just has to pay for the 3D simulation, which is of course mandatory nowadays, absolutely. But these are probably five or 600 euro, and the rest, the entire rest of the maxillofacial intervention is paid for by the government. Attention, orthodontics, pre-surgical, post-surgical orthodontics is not paid for. So patients still has to pay that out of the CSR on pocket, which is different from Germany, because the real difficult or skeletal malocclusions are covered by the government insurance as well, the orthodontie part, if I'm correct. - Okay, so that is interesting from a maxillofacial point of view. And in terms of your patient base today, what are you seeing that's different? Who walks into your door today? And what is your average day of consultations? What are you seeing a wide range of people? Or have you noticed over the years, a change in demographic inpatient who comes to your office? - Yeah, I don't think that, do you have seen a lot of demographic changes? We always had a lot of adult patients, which we are seeing nowadays too. What we are seeing, many, many second or third treatment. - Retreatment, retreat, retreat, retreat. That's what we are seeing nowadays much more often than we saw 40 years ago. - And from those group of patients, because as I mentioned to you at the start of this podcast, I'm actually at a meeting where I've spent the morning listening to Björn Ludwig, and one of the points that he mentions is that he sometimes gets patients who come in second or third time of treatment and they say, "Oh, Dr Ludwig, I've been come to see you. You're the guy. You'll be the one who does it right, where the other two do it wrong." And Björn mentioned, he says, "Oh, sometimes you can feel very flattered by this, but actually it's a warning signal." And do you see, is this phenomenon? Do you see things where people are now finding it difficult to be satisfied with what the treatment they're getting or is it a wide group of patients who come for the second or third treatment? - Most of the time they are coming because they have been treated with great mistakes. What is one of the most greatest mistakes nowadays? The first answer, what they have to give to the patient, we have to make space extracting some teeth. Or we have to tell them, you have a severe scar at the problem. We have to send you to the maxilofacial surgeon. And of course they are embarrassed when they hear that for the first time that they do have to take out four teeth and we have to send them to the maxilofacial surgeon. They never heard it at the first treatment and no it was the second treatment. And that's of course very annoying for the patients. - What do you put that down to? Is that due to insufficient training? Is that they've been treated by someone who has had no training in orthodontics? Or do you think it's orthodontists who don't want to have the difficult conversation about extractions or a combination? Uto, what are your feelings on that? - Well, I have to say I see a lot of retreatments where severe parodontal problems have been created biotrogenically. For example, severe gingeryl recessions in the low anterior area. This is what I see on a regular basis. And I've never seen so many disastrous, really enormous gingeryl recessions like in the last five or six years because of what Lawrence mentioned, no extractions and a lot of heroic camouflage, which leads of course, if the fundamental situations overpower to disaster's long term. There is this non-extraction hype in the orthodontic world. The expansion hype and the disillization hype and the hype of not being or vote anymore if you try to convince the patients that extractions are necessary, you risk losing the patient if you say the word extraction. We have always preferred to lose the patient instead of trying something that is against our deepest conviction. And you just have to wait for a certain time and we interestingly see many patients coming back after five to six years because exactly what we have predicted that is going to happen in the end to place. So then you have an easy game. If you told them that extractions are necessary and non-extraction treatment has been performed which has ruined everything, of course, it's easy now to sell your extraction treatment to them which is of course a very disappointing because the patient is already relatively fed up with treatment and needs to go for a second or third round. But this is what we see on a regular basis, right? Loans. - Absolutely. - Yeah. - Absolutely. - What do you think you've seen improve over the years? When you look around, when you're involved at a high level with many of the societies, teaching universities, what are the pros points that you've seen during your career? What do you think is better for the patient in a like what's definitely better now in general compared to when you guys started out? I think the interdisciplinary therapy has improved considerably, mainly probably due to the technology because today it's very simple and very easy to exchange records, which is good for communication to do interdisciplinary diagnosis and treatment planning together. This has really improved, I would say. And it is much easier to explain to the patient what the aim of your treatment is. So I would say interdisciplinary therapy has improved. - Do you have anything that you've noticed that you feel has improved significantly since you opened your office, you see with orthodontics? - I said interdisciplinary therapy due to the exchange of the records and doing the treatment planning together. Because you have to know, we don't have a mixellofacial surgeon in our area. Patients have to travel quite a bit to receive mixellofacial treatment. And the same is true for good restorative and prosthodontic treatment. We have excellent restorative and prosthodontist and prosthodontist in Italy, of course you know. And if you really want something special, very nice veneers or a cantilever resin bonded bridges, we send our patients far away to Bologna, to Milan, to Torino and with the new technology and the exchange of the records, our life has become very easy. And yeah, I see that really as a big difference. - And on the opposite end, are you seeing things which you really make you shake your head? That's like new things that crop up, that you feel, well this has taken a turn for the worst treat. - Don't smile, Lawrence, tell the truth. What don't you like? Lawrence is not an aligner fan. (laughing) - I have to admit it, I have to admit it because I have seen so bad treated patients with years of aligners and I know exactly that the providers have no clue about biomechanics. The companies are doing the treatment planning and they just transfer it to their patients without having this lightest clue what's going on. And this could be seen as an advantage for us seeing patients like this, but it's not a problem. It's a pity for the patients. - No, I hear that that's a point that's made right across the board. And I think no matter where in Europe we talk about or we hear that discrepancy because this sense that it's pre-programmed, it'll straighten themselves without any sort of, as you to mention, to start taking your proper records, your proper diagnosis, your treatment planning, et cetera. And it's a phenomenon we see here as well. - Finn, can I say something to that because Laura's doesn't treat patients with alinus. So he refers them to me because I started in 2008 and it's not that we are against, or totally against alinus, but not every patient is the right patient for that type of appliance, okay? And if the patients want alinus, and of course, even in South Tyrol, they come in and ask in the first place, can I be treated with alinus? You have to be honest with them. You can say it is an option, but probably it's just the second best option for you because, biomechanically, we are going to run into problems with your situation. And this means that your treatment is going to take longer. You will need refinements, you will need more alinus than you probably think you are receiving. And if you still want alinat treatment, then yes, we can go for that, but you have to know what the drawbacks are. So we are not against alinus, but we have to select carefully the patients that can be treated. And it always comes down to the bottom line, what do we want to achieve? What are our goals? And if our goals are excellence, then we know that an alinat treatment is going to take longer. In most instances, it's not just aligning and leveling the teeth. If you have substantial malaclusions, we all know that it's going to take longer. And if you feel you can manage this, of course you can sell an alinat treatment to your patients, but you have to be honest with them. And the honesty is lacking in orthodontics nowadays. Can we talk a little bit about different appliances in terms of old school? Because when I trained in the University of Hong Kong with Urban Hague and Backrabi, we used different appliances. And we used some lingual because we were involved with dark fichmen who came to visit. We used some aligners. We had visitors from Japan and Korea. We used fixed appliances and we used traditional removable appliances. But if we take the removable appliances, some things could be treated quite efficiently with removable appliances. But I felt it was clear that we knew what the limitations were. Isn't it time that perhaps from an education point of view we address a line of treatment similarly that we can look at their limitations as a removable appliance. And when we teach our students, we can give them certain guidelines or boundaries that we can teach them. Before we just send them out with very little training in this modality to try things out. What are your thoughts on that statement? Fin, this year, the. in the literature have been published to excellent Delphi studies. One has been published in the. in America, in the AEO. And one has been published in the. in progress of orthodontics. If people would take some time to read these two Delphi studies, they would get the answer what's going on nowadays with removable appliances or aligners. And then take your decision, take your resume. What you can treat with aligners and what you have to treat, still to treat with fixed appliances. You have a very good point. Delphi studies are an interesting topic, I would say, because international experts are asked with a questionnaire about getting a consensus on certain topics. This is a very good idea, I would say, to include clinicians that work on a daily basis in a clinical setting in the real world with appliances and match their experiences with some solid scientific research. So this is a good way forward. And I think for a certain time, there was lacking in academia, we had all these research that came just from the ivory tower. And if we included some experience-based research coming from really good clinicians or experts in a field and published that, it would help the clinical orthodontist to decide very efficiently which patients can be treated with aligners and which better not. And we'll include a link on the bottom of our podcast to the PubMed links for those two studies for people who want to have a look at that in a bit of detail. Thank you, Lorenz. If UTA and Lorenz, you are walking through the door of your practice today, fresh out of orthodontic school. [LAUGHTER] And you had to sit them down. And they're all UTAs moved from the Rhine to beautiful northern Italy and you're sitting them down and say, "Right, guys, here's a little bit of advice if you're starting today. You're opening your door. What would you say to them starting out?" Another wonderful question. What we are doing if somebody asks, where can I study orthodontics? I have to start here. Then we give them my advice, go to the best, because both of us were auto-detects. And we suffered for many, many years about this lack of education. We really suffered. We really suffered. And therefore, the best advice, go to an excellent university and look for a mentor. Look for a mentor. Don't go to KOLs. Don't listen to them. To this naked oil salesman, because there are many around. But solid universities and the right mentors. This is the way for having a successful practice in the future. I would say exactly the same. Don't look for money. Look for skills. And there's no shortcut to that. It's just getting up early in the morning and dedicating the entire day to your profession. Be the first in the office and be the last. And what else? No work by life balance. Be passionate, be dedicated, and you will have fun too. That doesn't sound very millennial. No, it sounds very old generation, but it's the truth. And I was just thinking, I am nearly 50. And I'm still first in and generally one of the last days. And I'm thinking, oh, OK. So-- True story. Cluesa, Sean, Jaron, and Sean, J kind of thing. Yeah. Nobody think it's important. I think I see people here at the meeting today and they're through various stages of their career. And they still have some of those lights on about how they do things. And they still have that passion about what they do. Their lives may have changed. They may have added to the world with families or other passions or other things, but they still bring great enthusiasm. And a word you used during our preamble lorenzes, they have a humility to their approach. That they-- how would we discuss that? What does the humility be? It sounds like we're humble bragging. But what does that mean in context or being an orthodontist, being humble? And in every profession, humility is at least for me, for us, a sign of greatness. And even one of my heroes, Warren Buffett, is a very, very humble man, a guy, OK? Very, very humble. And humility, will-- I'm sure that humility will lead to success in any profession. I think what you're aiming at is also respecting biology, respecting the old principles of biomechanics that haven't changed, because we are using more technological appliances nowadays. And I think Peter Greco was absolutely right when he said that we should treat our patients as if they were one of our closest family members. And this has been our attitude since day one. Absolutely. This is one of the most important advices which I would give to a young professionally. And probably this means-- also that sometimes we shouldn't immediately start a treatment. But we should do some watchful waiting or do guidance of eruption. All these old principles were just slicing some deciduous teeth but we are not placing any appliances. Or we are just extracting some teeth, some deciduous teeth first and then eventually some pre-molars, okay? And let Mother Nature do the orthodontist's job fatigue. Because Mother Nature, Mother Nature is still very good and sometimes much better than the orthodontist. And keep it simple. This is our principle. We have also used from day one. Keep it simple, stupid. This is stolen by Wic Alexander by the way. We are not reinventing the wheel here. I would like to add to this wonderful podcast, my last sentence, that after 40 years in private practice, we tried very hard but we never were able to finish one single case with an excellent treatment result. Even not our only son, where we tried very, very hard but we were not able to do it. Unfortunately, after 40 years, we were not able. But we are still striving until our last hour in orthodontist to finish one of these, one patient in excellent treatment. To achieve perfection. And this is what keeps us going. What motivates us every day. We are striving for perfection, but we were not able to do it until now. I really appreciate you taking the time out to talk to us about this. And talk on what is a very wide range of things in a very finite period of time that is this podcast. So thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciated both your time today. Thank you for it. It was a great pleasure. It was a great privilege. And an honor as well. Well, it's actually important because we will have both of you coming to Dublin in June again. And we're going to have Loren speaking separately during, as one of our keynote speakers, but Uta, you are going to co-host the pre-congress course along with our own Dr. Kiran Daly. And I'm so happy about that, because Kiran is a fantastic orthodontist with a lot of vision, but he's using the old principles, implementing them, and then of course, he matches us with new age technology and he's doing a great job. So I felt really super delighted and very happy that he invited me to join him in this endeavor. And we're delighted to have you both coming next year. And I think for people who are members of the society, or people from overseas listening to us from non-European countries, it would be great to have people to come along and see you guys in real life, or maybe even meet you after in the opening ceremony for a glass of wine. We would look very forward to that soon. After this nice conversation, we have to tell you, both of us, we can't wait to come to beautiful Ireland. Before we sign off, I just wanted to give a quick reminder to our listeners. Please be sure to subscribe to the podcast, the EOS podcast, which is the European orthodontic podcast on Spotify, to receive a do-notification when a new episode is available. And while you're at it, could you look and explore the brand new EOS resource library, which is a growing collection of webinars, Congress recordings, abstracts, and more, created to support all of our EOS members at every stage of their careers. You could find that online at www.eosEurope.org. Finally, mark your calendars. 7th to 11th June, 2026, Dublin, Ireland, will be the 101st Annual Congress of the European Orthodontic Society. And we will bring together over 2,000 orthodontists, including Simon and Paul Rigg, from all over the world, with an outstanding programme on the theme, innovation, meets clinical excellence. We can't wait to see you there. This podcast was brought to you by the European Orthodontic Society, sponsored by DWLingle Systems, Improving Orthodontics. Visit lingalsystems.co.uk for further information. The EOS is a membership organisation with over 3,000 members from all branches of the orthodontic profession, working in private practice, hospitals, and universities throughout Europe. To find out more, visit www.eosEurope.org and follow the EOS on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, and X. All views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and guest speakers, and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of the European Orthodontic Society. Sponsors have no input into the selection of speakers and topics.