106: Using AI Assessment Tools to Reveal Hidden Automation Opportunities with Corey Ganim

You also don't have to be an expert to go and sell these services. Your clients that are paying you $50,000 for an engagement, they expect you to be an expert. I just have to be literally one week ahead in terms of knowledge for those people to trust me and to be able to do a good job and deliver ROI. So let me ask you, are you a vibe coder? Yeah, definitely. I'm an aspiring vibe coder and I have no technical background. I got an F in computer science one, but I was still able to figure this stuff out. Nobody wakes up thinking, "I need an audit today, right?" Right. We actually called an AI tools assessment. Interesting. But the people that you're talking to, what is the ideal state or the ideal outcome from this assessment? We have a guarantee around it too, right? So the guarantee is, "Hey, if we can't identify at least five hours per week in time-saving opportunity, based on what we find in the report where you implement AI, save at least five hours a week, then we will refund 100% of your money." What is the realistic discovery? Like, what are people typically coming in at? So the average is about six hours per week and opportunity. So if we prescribe say three tools, the average tool cost total across those tools is going to be $40 a month. If you get nothing else out of this other than this is to create. Corey Gennie is helping non-technical business owners cut through the AI noise, uncover hidden automation opportunities and use practical tools to save hours every week. Welcome to using AI at work. I'm your host, Chris Day. Each week we'll be learning how today's business owners, entrepreneurs, and ambitious professionals are getting more done with smart use of tomorrow's tech. Let's get started. Right now every business leader is asking the same question, what are we going to do about AI? If this is you, chiefayofficeer.com has the answer. We'll give you a simple path forward where we provide executive and team training so your people know exactly how to safely use generative AI in their day-to-day. We also manage the deployment and implementation to make sure tools actually get adopted and deliver results. And we'll also guide company-wide transformation so AI becomes part of your operating system, not just another shiny object. The companies that act now will increase productivity, cut costs, and grow faster than their competitors. Those that wait will get left behind. So if you want to make AI work in your business, visit chiefayofficeer.com and see how we're helping companies of all sizes finally get results from AI. Hi everybody and welcome to another episode of Using AI at Work. My name is Chris Degel and I'm the host. And rarely do we have the opportunity to be in the same room as the guest. Last time we had that was probably episode 30 something and we were at our studio in Bastrop, Texas, which is just outside of Austin, the home of Starlink and Boring Co. Elon's and I guess now X. So this is a podcast where we aren't necessarily talking about theory. We're not talking about, I've got this great idea. We're talking to people who are doing the thing and that seems to be kind of like the common universal element of all of our guests. And today, no different. Cory Gannum is our guest and we'll be introduced, let him, Cory, introduce himself in a second, but I want to give everybody a backstory. So in February of this year, beginning of February, I guess it was I was had the opportunity to go to Fort Lauderdale and some big, you know, Pablo Escabar Tony Montoya kind of mansion with about 30 other early AI founders, fantastic group. And one of the individuals that was there is our guest today. And pretty quickly, I realized, okay, there were still some people that were kind of exploring that were in that room. How they got in there, I don't know. But Cory was one of those people who was actively touching, breaking, bending, seeing what was working, what's, you know, what does it take to make this viable for a business and that sort of thing. And left paid attention to what he's been putting out and his content is very accessible. And, you know, like certainly good for all levels of individuals who are wanting to discover how do I use AI at work. So before we get into the conversation, Cory, welcome to the show. Thank you for taking the time out of you day. And maybe just we'll pull it an Eisenberg. What do you want people to walk away from this episode with? Yeah, Chris. So first of all, thanks so much for having me. And I do really enjoy getting to do these in person too. I feel like it's a totally different vibe than then online. So yeah, I can go into my background. But as far as what I want people to get out of this, I mean, if anything, just a better understanding for how AI works, which tools are working at this point in time, right? We're May 2026. That's always going to change. But also the underlying principles, like the tools are going to change. But then there are certain principles, certain ways of using AI and applying it that I think is never going to change. And then as well as, you know, I'm sure we can go into the the AI assessment business model. Why that works? Why it can be sold as a service, whether you're starting out or, you know, all the way to the highest levels. I mean, something you guys are are actively doing in your business is assessing businesses and telling them where they can implement AI. So there's a lot of different directions that we can go. But I think first principles is a good place to start. So let me ask you, um, are you a vibe coder? Yeah, definitely. I'm an aspiring vibe coder. So I, I know, I know how to be dangerous with, you know, codex and cloud code. And I've used all the agents, whether it's cloud code work or open claw or more recently hermys. I spent the whole morning configuring some new hermys agents. But yeah, I, I know out of vibe code with, and I have no technical background. Like I literally, I tell people this all the time, I got an F in computer science, one, my freshman year of college. And, you know, so if that tells you enough about my technical background, hopefully it does, but I was still able to figure this stuff out. So let me ask you, are you an influencer? I don't really like that word. I don't like it either, but like how you describe the impact that you're having. Because when I hear influencer, I feel like, you know, I feel like, or just like hot girl who's like peddling, uh, like a makeup brand. Yeah. But like, so I don't know. I guess if you want to use that term, that's fine. But I mean, really my goal with, well, one, with content creation, I do it because it's fun. And I genuinely enjoy it. Like, that's one thing that I really enjoy throughout my week is, you know, if I come up with an idea for, oh, like this post, this would be a good idea. This would resonate or this would really help somebody, I'll like file it away in an ocean document and sit down one day and just create all the content. Right. So I enjoy it. But in general, I feel like it's, I feel like I have a teaching, I guess, spirit for lack of a better term. And I feel like I have the unique ability to convey things in a way that's easy for people to understand. So I feel like I'd be doing people to service by keeping it to myself. And so the fact that I enjoy it, I think it's kind of the icing on the cake. So content creation, especially with AI, like, it's, nothing has a long shelf life, right? It's going to go stale within a week or a month or whatever the case might be. So what are you, are you creating the content as you're exploring the tool? New tool comes out. Hey, guys, I want to check this thing out kind of thing. Are you getting your chops with it first? And then say, hey, this is what this is what I like about it. This way, I don't like about it. Like for somebody, for our audience, if they're not familiar with you and they want to start consuming your stuff, which I do, right? And one of the things I like about the way that you put it out is, I don't have time for the big, the big things, right? But you're giving very good, like, TLDRs or executive summaries of this is what the tool is. This is how I'm using it. Here's a few ideas. And I find that type of content very like boom, got it onto the next one. So what is the, the content creation process look like for you? And how do you integrate it into what, like, the deliverables that you're doing for clients? Yeah. So I think one, at least how I approach it is, I like to be, you know, I like to obviously know what I'm talking about before I go out there and talk about it. But it's like, what's the minimum amount that I could have used this tool or done with this workflow to be able to talk knowledgeably? So for example, like, cloud design just came out, you know, a month ago at this point. And I purposely didn't put out anything about cloud design on day one or even day three because I hadn't used it yet. So I waited until I had at least uploaded a brand kit and built, you know, one or two slideshows before talking about it. So I guess the, you know, the moral there is like, I need to know enough to be dangerous. But that's a lot, like, a lot less than most people realize before I go out and talk about something or try to teach it because of how quickly, you know, how, how many things are coming to market on a weekly basis and how, how quickly steps changing? Yeah. You know, I, when I'm in person with clients and they're asking about tools, I take them to, there's an AI for that.com. Oh, I tell people, I plugged that site all the time. You would think I was an affiliate. The reason I do it is to show them how many tools are out there. And their database last I checked, which was last week was like almost 50,000 tools. And it's segments it by industry, right? Yeah. So that's pretty cool. If you haven't checked it out, audience go check it out. It's good. Yeah. I tell people that all the time, like, you know, when we do, when we do assessments, for example, for clients, you know, obviously we prescribe very specific tools for their workflows. But a lot of times I encourage them. I'm like, look, we found these tools on there's an AI for that.com or futurepedia.io is another similar, basically competitor. It'll be in the show notes. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, look, if you, you know, the tools that we gave you are great and they're going to help with what you're doing specifically. But if you're just curious, if you want to know what else is out there, go poke around for yourself and go sign up for the free trials or, you know, sign up for a month and test it out. I mean, there's, you could, you could go two lifetimes of testing AI tools at this point. And by the time you finished, all the ones that you had already tested were new again. Right. And that's why I think it's important too, is like, I think you need to talk about these tools and start putting out content before you're like [BLANK_AUDIO] truly a quote unquote expert, because by the time you feel like you're an expert, either the tools outdated or it's changed completely. It's almost like you have to get to an MVP level of knowledge and then immediately start talking about it or you've lost the opportunity. So for the listener, the takeaway for that, and I feel the same way, you don't need mastery with any of these tools. They're designed to be easy to use. But also if you're like, if you see something, you don't have to get 10,000 hours on clawed designed to be able to put it to work after two or three sessions. And if you listen to other podcasts and they're talking to the, you know, the tool expert, who's listening to one the other day, a big name podcast. And I was like, yeah, I've been using it for three weeks. Right? Now he's doing like a big podcast. So as a listener, I don't want you to think that it takes a lot more than that. Once you, once you got like, like get your head right about thinking in AI, we call it, right? But like, please don't, please don't think that there's some big learning curve. Use the tools. And another way to look at that too, right? And, you know, obviously you, you and your team, you guys are experts. You guys have been in the weeds of this stuff for a long time, like well before it was cool, even well before chat GBT. But a lot of times like the, the demographic that I'm speaking to are these people that are newer to AI or they're newer to selling services or being a consultant. And the point that I try to drill into their heads is like, look, yeah, you don't have, you certainly don't have to be an expert to talk about this stuff or create content about this stuff. You also don't have to be an expert to go and sell these services, right? Like, you know, your clients that are paying you $50,000 for an engagement, they expect you to be an expert. But when I'm out there selling, you know, an AI assessment to a small business who, who has never used chat GBT, I just have to be literally one week ahead in terms of knowledge to, for those people to trust me and to be able to do a good job and deliver ROI. I actually had somebody push back on that last week. He was like, well, I don't, I don't agree that, you know, I think you need to be an expert before you sell these things before you do these things. And I'm like, dude, you're, you're wrong. This is an industry that it's so new that there are no true quote unquote, "experts." "Bingo." Yeah. I put in a week, if you know how to build a Claude skill, if you know how to create a context file, if you know what "markdown" means, like all of these things that are so basic and take you 24 hours to learn, makes you qualified to sell and to talk about. You know, it's a couple of things. It's interesting because we've been training teams for three years now, I guess. And the expectation was that they could prompt, right? Now, sure, that's helpful. But now the reality is that if a knowledge worker, staff level knowledge worker that doesn't know how the basics of maybe Claude code, maybe code work, maybe code, like if they don't know the basics of that stuff, if they don't know whether or not they ever run Claude code from the terminal or anything. If they don't, like if they've never seen that before, like, I would say that the baseline for me to qualify somebody as a capable staff level person has risen a lot just in the past three or four months. Yep. 100% agree. And knowing the right tool for the job, too, is kind of one of the, like, a point that you could draw out from what you just said. I think that is as valuable of a skill as any right now, is knowing which tool to use for the job, right? Like, for example, there's plenty of little scenarios where it's just a, you know, one input in one output out scenario. And it's like if somebody wants to go and automate that, creating a Claude skill might be overkill, right? That might just be a simple zappier zap, which is not even an AI workflow. It's literally just a workflow automation. And then there's things that are more technical or more complex. And then for those workflows, it's like, well, what makes more sense here? Do we turn that into a skill? Do we turn it into five individual skills with an orchestrator skill that calls each five in parallel? Does it, should it be a Claude code routine? Or do we, do we build this in codex because of xyz, right? Like, there's, I think, certain decision making points that, again, if you haven't been in the weeds and you don't know what each tool can do, it's harder for you to make those judgment calls. So you just, either you freeze and you don't do anything or you make the wrong decision. So for those of you listening, if you're not familiar with this concept of a skill file or a skill.md file, it's kind of like, for us, we did a lot of work in chat GPT for a number of years because it was the better model, right? Yep. And we built, so as a result, we built a lot of custom GPTs that were in the SOP environment. Hey, this is how the company wants it done. Use this as your co-pilot, your guide, right? And then we kind of made internally and clients even made a switch to Claude over the past several months. I'm kind of going back to GPT 5.5 a little bit. But skills are essentially, you can use them the same way that you would a custom GPT. Set instructions, anybody can call it and get a likely result. Yep. And kind of how I explain it to people is, so a skill is kind of like a recipe, right? And so for people who are listening, if you're familiar with the concept of an SOP, a standard operating procedure, a skill is kind of like an SOP where it's, hey, this is how we do a task, right? So we do a checklist for doing that task. And a skill just turns that checklist or turns that recipe into a repeatable process that you can just hand off to the AI. So it's like we turn the SOP or the recipe into a skill and then we hand that skill to the AI agent and then the AI agent can go and execute that skill. And what's cool about skills is that the AI agent is going to do that process the same way every time, right? There's no deviation. Whereas if you were just to prompt it or if you were to just do it from scratch every time, it might get a step wrong or you might forget to include step seven or more is left up for interpretation. Yeah. Or if you're just leaving it up to the individual to be like, oh, I don't need a list. Yeah, or I can just prompt it. And it's like, well, that's, yeah, skills are just more efficient. And from like a token use perspective too, right? It's way more efficient to just for the AI or the LLM to just call a skill. And it knows exactly what it needs to execute. It does it the same way every time it's just cheaper overall too. You know, man, and you bring it up like another thing that I hadn't heard of really wasn't a big deal, even just maybe two months ago, a month ago was token budget, right? Like in all of a sudden, if you're training these people, like you go back to that concept where I said at a base level, they should know how to do this stuff. If they're doing that stuff, they're probably plugging into an environment where tokens are getting burnt. So now, all of a sudden, you've got all these people that are creating all these experiments that cost money, not the $20 a month subscription cost real money. So kind of explain to the listeners why this token budgeting matters and what can happen, what's the downside of? Yeah. So again, for the folks in the audience here who maybe you've been on a free plan or you've been on like a $20 a month chat GBT or cloud plan, and you've never run into, it's called a rate limit, right? And all a rate limit is, it's basically ran out of your usage for your subscription. So when you run out of usage, you have to wait a certain number of hours or a certain number of days for your usage to reset. Once it resets, you can start using the AI again, whether it's cloud or chat GBT. And so, how do people run into those limits? I mean, simple enough, they're just, they're just using it a lot, right? And why is that important? Because a lot of times people are using the AI in a way that's not token efficient. So for example, and I was guilty of this early on when I didn't know any better, I'm sure a lot of people, they're default way of using AI is they just have one long chat thread, right? So it's like any time I need to ask cloud a question or chat GBT a question, I just ask it in the same thread that I've asked at a hundred other questions. And the issue with that is every time you ask another question in that chat or you put another prompt in that chat, is it has to go back and process every other earlier prompt in that chat all over again. So you know, by the time you get 10 prompts deep in a single thread, it's having to process 10 prompts every time instead of just the one, right? Your most recent question. So like the takeaway for the audience, that's probably the simplest thing you can stop doing to save tokens is every time you, you know, you switch topics or you log into cloud or chat GBT again, just open up a new chat. And you know, I, I'm not going to pretend to be like an expert on token efficiency or, you know, these micro optimization strategies. But overall, it's like I tell people you don't need a higher tier plan. Like a lot of people, they start off with AI and they're like, oh, I'm just going to get the hundred dollar month plan. I'm going to get the two hundred dollar month max plan. And I'm like, that's not necessary. Like just start off with a 20 a month. And once you start hitting rate limits consistently, then upgrade to 100 a month. And then once you start hitting rate limits consistently there, then upgrade to 200. But you know, you only want to, I guess, upgrade when you need to. I feel like a lot of people are so gung ho, they want to go like max plan from the start. So great advice for sure with that, nobody needs that mega thread that's got everything from vacation plans. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But so if you're an active user, I guess this makes, this is where projects would make a lot more sense. Where listeners, if you're not familiar with it, project is, you know, multiple chats around a certain subject. And it's not necessarily calling the context of every chat. But if it needs to, if you prompt it to go out there and like evaluate what it's done, you've created this kind of contained memory on that subject without. the mistake of this massive token eater of a thread. - Right, so one again, the way that I like to describe projects to people, and so again, just to kinda differentiate. So chat GBT has what are called custom GPTs, and cloud has something that are called projects. They're the same thing, right? They're just chat GBT's version is called custom GPTs, clouds version is called projects. And so what I tell people is think of a project to think of a custom GPT as just siloed context, right? So for example, I'm a big fan of Russell Bronson, I know you're familiar with Russell Bronson. So I wanted to create a cloud project that's basically Russell Bronson's brain. So that way, anytime I ask a question inside that specific project, I'm getting an answer based on Russell Bronson's teachings or his content or whatever. So how I set that up is I took PDF copies of all three of his books, expert secrets, traffic secrets, and dot com secrets. And I turned those PDFs into, I think it was like 11 or 12 individual context documents. So basically, cloud took the full PDF transcripts, chunked it down into these individual context files, and then I saved those context files as the what are called the project knowledge inside that project, right? So you've got the project knowledge which are the context files and then to tie it all together inside the project or inside the custom GPT, you can add what are called project instructions. And all that is is that's like the system prompt for the project. That is what tells cloud. Hey, cloud, here are the 11 context files that are inside your project knowledge for this project. Here's what each one means. Here's when you would use each one, right? Here's what each one does. It's what ties everything together. So once you have your project knowledge and then your project instructions, then every time you ask a question or put a prompt inside that specific project, it's going to function based on your project instructions and based on the context documents that you gave it. So now, for example, inside my Russell Brunson project, anytime I go to write a new email sequence or fix my positioning or write a landing page or anything like marketing direct response related, I always do it inside that project because it will give me the output based on the project knowledge, all the Russell Brunson information. And it will reference it specifically. It'll say, hey, you need to write the email sequence like this because this is how Russell structure has soap opera sequences. Or this is how Russell leaves a cliffhanger at the end of each email to get somebody to open the next email, right? - Yeah, so a couple of things that I'm taking away from that, I wasn't using project instructions like that. So how I'm seeing this as you're describing it is almost like a skill file where you open up the folder and it's like, here's the instructions, here's what's in this skill, use this if you need that. So it's almost like a, say mechanism, right? Except it's almost like a broader skill, right? A skill is for a very specific business process. Like, for example, I could have a skill that writes email sequences and I do. But if I use that skill inside of my Russell Brunson project, it's going to kind of take into account, like, hey, here's like the strategy behind this email sequence, which is gonna be at the project level. And then the actual like physically writing the copy is gonna be done by the skill, right? That's like the very specialized, this is how, you know, this is a subject line we use. This is all the various process specific information is gonna be handled by the skill. - So you mentioned three books, but you turned it into 11 context documents. - Mm-hmm. - Why? - Because Cloud told me to. I, yeah, so I went into Cloud and I said, like, I literally, when I was coming up with the idea for this project, I told it exactly what I wanted to do. I said, hey, I want a project that is my Russell Brunson brain. And I even asked that I said, well, hey, I have a PDF copy of each of his books. Obviously, they're like 250 pages each. I was like, Cloud, can I just include these three PDF files as the project knowledge, and then you can just use that. And it was like, well, no, that would actually be a bad idea because for one, you're asking Cloud every time it gives you a response. It's gonna have to read, basically read three books and then give you a response, which is going to eat up your entire context window in one prompt. And two, it's obviously gonna be very expensive. So the 11 or 12 context files are what Cloud recommended. It was like, well, hey, based on the content of each book, we need these context files. One is like positioning. Two is email sequences. Three is your ICP, right? And it kind of just broke it out. And then I approved that plan and I said, okay, that looks good. Here are the books, right here are the PDF copies. Generate the context documents. And it did it one after the other. It generated the 11 or 12 individual markdown files to where all I had to do was just save those and then upload them to the project knowledge inside the project. - Did you review them? - Yeah, for sure. And like, I mean, I didn't read everyone word for word because they are pretty lengthy, but like at a high level, I was like, you know, it gave me the plan. It was like, hey, I think we need these 12 context documents. And I was like, okay, based on what I know about Russell, like that makes sense, right? So I approved that and then it started, it built them one by one. And like the first one I read through, and they're all pretty, they just take his concepts and just segment them as essentially what it's doing. So yeah, it worked really well. And I use that project every week for sure. - Yeah, I bet. So when we were teaching, I guess new users about AI, we teach them this concept. I learned it from my buddy Mark Moss, but it's 10, 80, 10. The first 10% is you being clear on what you want. Next 80% is after you hit enter, the model does its work. Final 10% is you, putting, you know, like making, taking it from synthetic to authentic, right? How much, how much 10% on the back end are you doing once you've, 'cause this is a big investment of time and thought and building and all that, how much better is the output than if you, obviously you're saving time because you're not having to reintroduce how you want things done. But are you spending less time on the back end? - I'm definitely spending less time on the back end. Yeah, so like for example, right, to use that email sequence example again. So that, like I had that project, that Russell Brunson project, I had it write an email sequence that it was a five day sequence that goes out to anyone who downloads one of our lead magnets, right? Or are the template for how we deliver the AI assessment? So, you know, I gave it a simple prompt essentially, hey, here's what the lead magnet that somebody's opting in for. This is what they get. This is our offer that I need you to CTA in the fifth email, write me the email sequence like Russell would write it. And then, you know, 60 seconds later, I have a full five day sequence. And so that, you know, the 10% was me specifying more. So just like, here's what our offer is and here's what somebody's opting in for. So make sure the email sequence is relevant. It writes the whole sequence. And then when I go to transfer that into our email marketing software, really the only changes that I'm making are around like formatting. And I mean, there's some, of course, I read every one, like that's something I'll read beginning to end. And there's some sentences where I'm like, this is redundant or this sounds kind of weird. Like I'm just going to rewrite it. I'd say I spend, you know, 5% of my effort actually on the back end, you know, dialing things in. I could have shipped it unchanged. Copy-based. But it just, it wouldn't have felt right. It's good to know that if you needed to copy people. Yeah, you, I mean, yeah, you absolutely could. Did you get away with that? And another reason that I think that works, at least for my setup, is because I have a really strong, underlying brand voice skill. And that's something that everybody needs to have. Like if you're listening to this, if you get nothing else out of this other than this is to create a brand voice skill. And so all that is is it gets called any time, clawed or chat GBT needs to write something that sounds like me. Anything from an email to a marketing material, to a tweet to a whatever it uses the brand voice skill. And, you know, how that works is, and you can ask, "Clawed." Like, "Hey, interview me to put together a brand voice skill." But essentially at its core, it's like, "Hey, this is how Cory sounds." These are words that he likes to use. He's concise, he's to the point, he doesn't beat around the bush. These are words that he never uses. And the reference files for that skill are five of my podcast transcripts. So like I could go and take the transcript from this podcast here, give it to that skill so that it has the most up-to-date, essentially way of how I talk, right? As well as written examples. So it's like, "Hey, also in those reference files are 10 of my best LinkedIn posts." Or 10 of my best tweets. And so that way it has a really good idea of one, how I talk, because of the podcast transcripts, two, how I write, because of the social media posts that it has access to. You know, I did. So 100%. We're going to talk about your audit and how that one particular document is part of that. What I did was I had one of the models I said, "Look at the last 50 Slack messages that I've sent." Yep. Right? Because my style is not formal. If I got to be formal with you, you know, we'll do the ceremony, but that's not going to help either one of us. Yeah. - Right. - So my style is very casual and I had to do that and then it built out what it saw was my style and now that's the document that I'm using, it's nailing it. So for those of you that haven't done this, we're gonna talk about it in a second, but good idea. So with that, let's talk about you guys have kind of hit on a hot point with these audits that you're doing. So talk to me about what you've discovered with that, who's interested in it? What did they do with the information? What makes a good audit? Just kind of like the whole, 'cause this is obviously something you've dived into. So I wanna hear your expert perspective on this paradigm. - Yeah, so I'll kinda tell you how it came about first and foremost. So I was having lunch with two friends of mine, both business owners, this was probably five or six months ago at this point. One of the guys, he's a very successful commercial real estate broker and because of that, he's very busy, right? They're always, you know, he runs a fund, he's their listing properties, he's got a bunch of agents under him, but he really wants to use AI and he knows he needs to use it. He just doesn't know where to start. So he was like, he kinda made it, it all started really with an off hand comment that he made at this breakfast. He was like, "Hankori, I wish I could just pay, "I'll pay you a thousand dollars "to just come into my office "and just follow me around for the day "and tell me where I could be using AI." And I know he meant it, if I would have said right there, like, "Okay, I'll do it," like he would have cut the check, but like it literally, I will never forget that because I'm like, "Hmm, if he feels that way," right, if he's having an issue, then chances are there's so many other business owners in his position who feel the same way. So I didn't take him up on that just because right off the bat, I'm like, "Sure, that'd be great, "but that's not scalable." - So many. - Yeah, if anything, if I want to run with this idea from the start, I need to figure out a way that allows me to do this without being on-site, with a client every day. So that led to the first iteration, which funny enough was asking clients, like, "Hey, we're gonna add you to our LOOM account "and we're gonna have you hit record on LOOM "on your screen while you work "for 90 minutes, two hours, three hours, whatever." And then we'll take that recording, feed it to Google Gemini, which is the only model that can analyze video, and have Gemini tell us, "Hey, based on how they're working, "these are the opportunities for improvement." - That's a nugget. - Right, well, come to find out, there was a lot of friction there. People don't, you know, they're hesitant to record all their actions or, you know, they're self-conscious that they're scrolling Reddit or whatever. So there was friction there. So we're like, okay, well, what if, what if instead of having them record their screen with LOOM, we just did like a 45 minute Zoom call with them, and we can create a question bank designed to pull out their pain points, right? Almost like an interview, but the goal of the interview is not to prescribe or tell them what they can fix. It's literally just to diagnose, right? It's where can you save time? Where is work piling up? What have you tried to automate in the past that failed? Right, so we've kind of developed this question bank that allows us to really efficiently pull out a bunch of opportunities for AI, and in a 45 minute call. So that's the current iteration of the model. We've actually built a voice agent that can do that piece, but I've done a lot of those interviews myself with business owners. So we conduct the interview, whether it's me or the voice agent, we take the transcript and, you know, to simplify it, I always tell people, we just give it to Claude, have Claude go research off the shelf AI tools that they can implement to, you know, fix some of those pain points, and then we prescribe those tools, but it is a little more detailed than that. It's not just a simple prompt. We built actually a series of skills that do a very, you know, thorough deep dive to find the exact tools that meet their needs. So we, you know, we find the tools, and then we compile that into a report, and this is not just like a Google doc. This is like a, it looks like a five to $10,000 McKenzie deliverable that we built in a tool called Gamma. Yeah. So we, you know, we put that into a report that's basically, hey, here are the three to seven, biggest bottlenecks that we identified. Here are the three to seven AI tools that can fix those bottlenecks, and then we schedule a 30 minute review call to go over it with them, right? And the purpose of that review call is twofold. One, we're sharing our screen and going through the report line by line to make it so that they understand the opportunity. It's like, hey, you said you had pain point X, well, here's to why this is how much it costs, this is exactly how it can help your problem, right? So that's part one is we're trying to actually help them with their problem. Part two is that's an upsell opportunity, right? So that's where the client, you know, they're like, well, hey, this is great, but I'd love if you could just, you know, help me out. Can you just do this for me? Or a lot of times we'll uncover bottlenecks that it's not simple enough to where, hey, an off the shelf tool can fix this. It's like, we can help, but it's gonna be more of a, like, we need to build an agent or we need to integrate XYZ AI tool here. It's not just a download. And so that gives us a lot of opportunity to upsell additional services. So that's really the model in the nutshell. - So nobody wakes up thinking, I need an audit today, right? - Right. - And we like to call it an assessment too, because a lot of, you know, businesses when they hear aud, anybody when they hear aud it, it's like a media turn off. - Yeah. - So we like to refer to it. It's like, hey, it's an AI, we actually call it an AI tools assessment. - Interesting. - So we, I don't talk to the sales team, I guess, to get the latest language, but I think we call ours an opportunity audit. - Okay, that's definitely better than just like, - Then just like AI aud it. - Yeah. So, but what are people, the people that you're talking to, they're, what are they wanting? What is the, what is the ideal state or the ideal outcome from this assessment? - Yeah, so in good question. So we have a guarantee around it too, right? So the guarantee is, hey, if we can't identify at least five hours per week in time saving opportunity, based on what we find in the report, where you implement AI, save at least five hours a week, then we will refund 100% of your money, right? So again, the business owner goes into it with the kind of the, yeah, the mindset of like, okay, if this doesn't work, if they can't find five hours a week, I'm out 45 minutes. - Yeah. - Like that's the only risk. - It's worth it. - Yeah, so basically either I buy back five hours a week or I lose 45 minutes, right? - What is the realistic discovery? Like what are people typically coming in at? - So the average is about six hours per week in opportunity and the average tool cost to the business owner. So if we prescribe, say three tools, the average tool cost total across those tools is gonna be $40 a month. 'Cause dude, you'd be shocked how many of the tools we find where it's like, you literally need a fathom note taker. - Yeah. - Or you need a sane box. It's $7 a month. - Yeah. - And you know, we're talking like one client that we did one for recently, we're doing further engagements with him as well. He owns a business brokerage. This guy is drowning in email. Two hours a day of email. - Yeah. - And the tool that we prescribed him, sanebox, sanebox.com, not affiliated. $7 a month, all it does is it puts an AI layer over your inbox and it forces you to batch, prioritize your inbox. You have your main inbox, which is everything important and urgent. And then you have what's called sane later, which is anything that's not urgent and not important. - Still a match on that. - He came to me a week later. So we always send the report before we do the review call. So I think it was like a week between, when we sent this report and his availability for the review call. But he emailed us before the review call. He was like, "Guys, I went ahead and got sanebox. Like I read the report, I got sanebox. It's crazy." And I saw him in person two weeks ago. He said it's saving him about an hour and a half a day. - Yeah. - And so like, and it's a $7 a month tool. - Yeah. - So that's a kind of opportunity there. And another great example, actually some guys that you met, I met at the Fort Lauderdale event. - Yeah. - They own a, I guess, a e-commerce pharmacy. - Yeah, yeah. - Right? - Sure. - And so because of that, they, because they ship products and all, I think 46 states out of the 50 states, they're responsible for filing and remitting sales tax in 46 states. That's 46 different departments of revenue. That's 46 different sales tax returns, either monthly or quarterly, right? And so Adam, the co-founder of the business whose time is probably worth about $1,000 an hour is doing this manually every single month. - Yeah. - And one of the tools that we prescribed him is not an AI tool. It's literally just a SaaS called taxjar.com that 100% automates the filing and paying of sales tax returns. - No, it's worth the fee right there. - Across every state. - Yeah. - And we ended up doing, we did an assessment for him, for his co-founder Taylor, and then for their head of pharmacy Nathan. - Should we typically do it at the individual level, not at the team level or anything like that? - Correct. - Yeah, we find, 'cause I mean most of our clients are small business owners. They're probably actually some of the bigger business owners that we've worked with, 'cause they have multiple businesses, but yeah, it's at the individual level. So we'll do it. You know, we've done them with like, realtors or like a one-man show. - Yeah, yeah. - All the way up to like the business owner themselves. - Yeah. So this might be for the listener, if they're part of an organization, they might just say, "I'm gonna pay for that for my own damn sale." Yeah, and it would be worth it now. I mean that said we have had requests to Essentially create like a bigger assessment product of like hey, can you come and assess our Department or you know our whole business if it's a eight person business or ten person business and that's Early on the roadmap, but we've we've had a lot of demand with this just kind of single stakeholder product Yeah, you've just been doing a lot of those. I'll tell you what as we talked about it lunch the more people the more complex Yep, and if you can hit that sweet spot with just the like the individual professional who wants to know how to either run my business better or just Perform as an executive better. Yep Interesting you cracked the code turned that into the soccer mom angle - yeah, then your business. How do I run the house better? Yeah, oh, yeah, I love that the only issue with that is like and like take my fiance for example, right like she's she knows I'm obsessed with AI but she kind of gets Not weird about it, but like she's like will you better not ever have the bot like talking to me? Yeah, like I feel like there's gonna be a lot of that pushback She's like I feel like there's gonna be a lot of that pushback from People who aren't in tech or like you know take like a soccer mom for example Maybe not even in the workforce. They they like the idea of AI, but they don't want it to replace Some of that like yeah, which you know, of course you'd use it tastefully, but yeah, I just thought that was that just reminded me of that so I like this concept so The and it's something that that can be done in 45 minutes of bandwidth because the number one thing that when we're working with companies Early on pretty much you're like well, how much time is this gonna take? It's like they're just gonna take what it takes it doesn't take a lot I don't want the listener to think that it takes a lot, but it's also not you know Fairy godmother magic wand that somebody's just like ding. It's done. It's a process For sure. Yeah, and so again for our our very specific assessment product It's 45 minutes on the front end for the business owner and then 30 minutes on the back end for the review call Right and then in terms of my workload 45 minutes for the assessment You know it takes us roughly 30 minutes to put together the report a little less and then 30 minutes for the review call now I did mention how We do have an AI agent named Annie who can handle the Initial discovery call now, right? And so we built her what's the voice agent you're using? Retail AI. Okay, so it's she's built on top of retail AI, but again the idea with that is A lot of times business owners you know when they're talking to me and other human being Things tend to go off try and get ready. We start bantering and we're talking about whatever, but We find that when they're talking to Annie like they know they're obviously they know they're talking to a bot It's on a secret. So they're just like very Direct into the point and so Annie can get a assessment done in 20 minutes. Yeah, they would take me 45 And she's and honestly not to to their own horn, but she does a damn good job like she's She's designing a way where she Starts off broad ask kind of more general questions and then she'll kind of drill into Very specific use cases like if if she finds that like okay, well, you know sales is a big problem here She's gonna drill into sales and we're gonna we're gonna uncover a lot of Very specific sales use cases when it comes to AI I can see a lot of uses for that man. I'm kind of a on on repeat. Let's say there's Something that's been on my mind a lot since I first got turned on to it about six weeks ago was And I don't know if you paid attention to it, but Jack Dorsey fired a bunch of people from block right 4000 people they fired Is it when you read the terms of the layoff it was it was a kind gesture for sure they're well taken care of Me I just thought oh AI got him right they came and they did some stuff like this they didn't audit they identified some opportunities for Efficiency and that sort of thing right, but that that's not what happened Did you are you familiar with the paper from hierarchy two intelligence that he came out with About a month after that announcement. So I I heard people talking about it, but I'm not familiar. Maybe you can just yeah, so Basically, he was saying that we were you know, we're AI forward. We were evaluating our company and asking the question of what does the organization of tomorrow look like and he said of our our analysis We revealed that a big portion of the middle layer of our org chart. It looks like a pyramid right big portion of their role is They get information from somewhere either externally or internally They do something to it they review it they compile it they analyze it And then they ship it back out. Yeah, right or report on it or make a dashboard all things that can be done by agents Bingo right and he said that's what we did It wasn't about that that we made a better mouse trap with the existing organization He said we just flattened that organization. Yeah, so I know that when we were at lunch You talked about how when you guys are evaluating these processes that you're looking at the processes not just as is because You know odds are it can be a better there's a there's There's fewer moving parts required to get the deliverable from the company right so you guys evaluate the process once it's captured for efficiency In general and then introduce the AI angle to it Are you guys taking into account like preparing companies for I don't know Their data today still usable but ready for ingestion In the future by some intelligence or an agent. Yeah, so what you kind of hit on is something I've been just kind of like talking and tweeting about recently Talking about the concept of building an internal knowledge base like a second brain. Yes kind of the yes the popular wording for that recently now Again because I'm not like a data analyst. I have no technical background. I'm sure it is more complicated than The way I'm envisioning it in my brain maybe not but maybe not you're right But but really at its core it's like you know my in my business partner actually created a really good pyramid style graphic to depict the like kind of the levels of of AI and the foundational layer is data right it's you know your internal data your internal knowledge base everything from emails to call transcripts to copies of proposals to SOPs like everything in the company is at that data layer and I think the companies that create a really Strong structured data layer of all their internal data. It's going to make it so much easier for them to be AI forward and for them to you know deploy AI agents and And start AI projects because again that data is the foundation of every AI Everything right so it's like if that date if that foundation isn't in place There it's going to be a lot more difficult and a lot slower for them to roll out AI versus if they do the work to to build that foundation one time Everything builds upon it and they can law you know they can ship AI projects so much faster So what I've been saying is one there's that's going to be a multi multi billion dollar industry of people offering what I call second brain as a service Going to you know companies like your clients and saying hey we will help we will build your knowledge base or essentially create the data systems That'll act as the foundation for all your AI deployments So that'll be that'll be a whole multi billion dollar industry and then two companies are going to start to do that internally too like if you're a You know one to ten person business You probably don't have the funds to go out and hire somebody to build that for you But it is something you should build yourself. Yeah sure and I was at a workshop. I think it was last week one of the guys presenting talked about I guess Arthur Anderson the the hospital Did a I think it was Arthur Anderson or no MD Anderson. I believe The hospital system did an AI pilot with IBM to something around piloting their Watts and AI technology They were like it was something like there were 58 million dollars in and hadn't treated a single patient with the initiative And the reasoning come to find out is because The the data layer was not intact at all they jumped straight to in the you know the using the Image that my business partner created that they jumped straight to the top of the pyramid Which is you know the agent harness on top basically the automation layer and the lllm And they completely neglected the foundation which was the data layer So it's like if they would have Built that foundation first interesting and then you know jump to the automation and the the lllm layer They would have had a much higher chance of success. Well, man I hope that I hope that companies can work with sloppy data because I mean, that's a big lift especially for like a small business or something like that. Yeah, they're just They're just hanging on right so for them to prepare so I can see that certainly being a role that so we've got this the situation Right where you're you're talking to people. I'm talking to people and you and I probably have an expectation that oh everybody knows this or everybody knows that And what I'm realizing is that even when I try to dumb it down um The feedback that I get from smart people is like oh that was over my head kind of yeah Right And that would say that's the bulk of business people staff level for sure even executive level. That's the bulk of it Right, so that's that's what the American workforce looks like today But the technology continues to improve right like like the whole last six months with cloud code and co-work and blah blah blah All that so agents cloud bot her me's all that that what didn't exist or it wasn't as usable right So we've got these people who they're they're still they still need to learn like the basics of prompting But the technology continues to pull away. Yep, right? So like where does that meet up? Where does the does it get to the point to where it's just so easy that the that the workforce at large can say Oh, I can just use this to I don't need to know how I don't need to know how to do anything like that. What do you see happening with the trend and adoption? Yeah, I think it'll get easier. I think it'll just get even, we'll get to a point probably in the next two to four years, where people's grandmas are going to have an AI agent in their pocket or on their phone. It's going to be so user-friendly where take open claw right now, for example, setting up a simple cron job sometimes takes an hour of debugging to do properly or connecting. You run into issues trying to connect it to Gmail or whatever. That's just not going to be an issue. I think the technology is going to improve to a point where it'll still all be natural language in the sense that I can just tell my AI agent, "Hey, call this restaurant and book a reservation for APM and it'll just do it and it'll just work." Whereas right now, it's like, "Well, before I can do that, I've got to get a phone number through Twilio and then connect it." Then I've got to set up an 11-labs voice profile and then I've got to make sure that I send it the proper URL for the restaurant. All that is going to go away. You're just going to be able to tell it to do things and it's just going to work. I know that when we met in February, you were already clawed-bottying, but my experience with clawed-bott was huge pain in the ass. Learned a lot, but I think maybe I've got one chief of staff that's up and running, but I haven't even used it. But you said over the past few days you've been messing around with Hermes. Better. Better so far. That's my background with clawed-bott. When I really started getting into the weeds, it was with clawed-bott and it's because my business partner, he's very technically minded. He's a developer on day two. So this was January 3rd or something. Yeah, because you presented on it. Yeah, yeah. So we had been using it at that point. So I presented on it. That was probably January 27th or 28th. I had been using it for maybe three weeks at that point, only because my business partner discovered it on day two. It was still completely unknown, but he messaged me one morning, he's like, dude, you've got, we've got to start messing around with this. This stuff is crazy. And he built actually Annie, the voice agent that I mentioned. Yeah, yeah. The first iteration of Annie was as an open-claw agent. So I started experimenting with her and on day two of using her, I was like, I could never picture myself without this technology again. Like it was that impactful to me that early on. And so we just got a three week head start on everyone else, which is the only reason I was able to present on it at that event. But I say all that to say, and the reason that was so impactful is, and just open-claw in general to like our little bubble of the world. Is that was the first, I think, like real powerful demonstration of agent AI and that company mainstream. Like that was the first time where you could tell an AI agent to do XYZ and it would go do it. And it had no guard rails and it was smart and it would just like, it would just get the job done. And yeah, and you just, that wasn't possible before that. So I was open-clawed everything for two, three months after that. Really, I've stopped using open-claw almost entirely over the last probably two months. Using mainly like clawed coerc and perplexity computer. Not as powerful, but better user interface and they just work better. Yeah. Now that Hermes is kind of the big thing on the scene and kind of replaced open-claw in the, I guess, the vibe for lack of a better term. Yeah. Everybody's kind of switching to Hermes because people say it's like Hermes just works. Right. Out of the box, it just works. It's not as finicky as open-claw. It's not, you know, it doesn't get stuck on these loops or like cron jobs. Don't fire like it literally just works. So one thing that I actually spent my whole morning this morning doing, are you familiar with G-brain? Yeah. Have you ever had G-brain? Gary Tan. Gary Tan's, that's his kind of open, and so Gary Tan's the CEO, Y-combinator, which is like the. That was a thing you're, too. Yeah, most prestigious VC incubator in the world. But he created this open-source project called G-brain. What G-brain is is it's just. My understanding is it's essentially a knowledge layer for AI agents, but it's very robust. It can ingest thousands and thousands of context files and documents and notes and everything. And it has a retrieval system that it can easily retrieve that context as needed. So for example, this morning I spent the whole morning building out my G-brain, connecting it to my Hermes agent. So I've set up my G-brain in a way where it pulls in. You know, when I get on a Zoom call or a Google Meet call, it uses Fathom. That's a note-taker that I use. Right? Every Fathom call generates a call transcript. So I set up my G-brain to where every call transcript that gets generated from my Fathom automatically pulls into G-brain. So that if I add. Like if me and you had a Zoom call today and a year from now, I can ask my Hermes agent, "Hey, what did Chris and I talk about on, you know, whatever today's date is?" It could easily, quickly, cheaply and accurately look up that transcript because it's in my G-brain and tell me exactly what we talked about. And then I can. Anytime I create a new Hermes agent, I can connect it to that G-brain and all that context is there forever. So I connected my calendar to it, my Google Drive, my emails, and my call transcripts. So it's just a big shared knowledge base for all my agents. So for the listener, this is a trend you're going to start hearing and seeing a lot about where people are just. They're not using chat GPT like a drive-up window where they ask for something, they get their answer they leave. They're going to be integrating it through the connectors and through the agents and through all this. The ingestion of all of these business artifacts, like your email and your Slack and your fathom transcripts and all that sort of thing. So that you're going to be able to have this, I mean, literally second brain, except something that on demand or will even surface things that you're not even thinking to ask, "Hey, Chris, maybe you should think about this kind of thing, right?" That's going to be a trend that I think that the. And you don't have to be like, "Great, a quick, great, AI to set that up." You can get that going. But once you do, I think that those are the people that you're really going to notice like, "Oh my gosh, they've got a superpower." Yep. And so to your point, right? It's not like the benefit of having that G-brain or whatever second brain you end up building. It's not so much so that if I, you know, six months from now, I need to figure out what Chris and I talked about on May 29th. It's more so exactly like you said. It's like, the AI is going to be able to draw parallels between inputs that you would never be able to draw. Right? It's like what it might say, like, "Hey, Quarry, you know, based on your last 50 call transcripts, every prospect you talk to, every one of them has this one objection." And like, sometimes you overcome it, sometimes you don't. But in all your sales materials, you should be optimizing for this objection. Yeah. And like, that one insight might make you an extra $50,000, $500,000. Or save you a ton of time. So it's those insights. And when I tell people, because a lot of times people, when I've been kind of telling them about this concept of the second brain, they have trouble wrapping their heads around like, "What's the ROI here?" I was like, "Well, I can't tell you because I don't know what you have under the hood." But what if every bit of information your business has ever had, if you were able to ask AI one question, "Look at all my information and give me 10 things that will either save me more time or make me more money based on every bit of context you have about my business." And then, I guarantee you, you will be baffled by the-- Yeah, put a price on that. You'll be baffled by the information that you get. So that's the exercise. And that's a great point. If somebody says, "What's the ROI?" I mean, I'm locked in. If you're not that engaged with your career or anything, maybe it's not going to have that big of a difference. But if you're locked in and your business is important to you, having another you, like, "Dude, if I was my own copilot, forget about it." For sure. And that's what you're building, right? And you can have a bunch of them. Like, that's what I like about Hermes. You can have a bunch of them. As you can have with Hermes, it's called profiles. So I can have right now my main Hermes agent, which is kind of my operation/executive assistant. But on my to-do list this week, actually on Wednesday, I'm creating two additional profiles. One is going to be a marketing/content profile. And one is going to be my CFO, my AI-CFO. So each of those, that's essentially three individual Hermes agents. They're all going to have access to that G-brain that I mentioned. So that's like the shared context layer. And then in addition, each of those Hermes agents that's going to have their own individual private G-brain. So the content agent is going to have a content G-brain. Sure. The finance agent is going to have a finance G-brain. But they're all going to have access to that shared one. Yeah, yeah. That has the call transcripts and the email and everything. So it's like, imagine it's literally like me building out my org chart of AI agents that one get better over time, because that's what Hermes is fundamentally designed to do. And then two, have shared context across everything that you're doing from a general level and also have private context. So that way you're not muddying the waters with your finance agent doesn't necessarily need your content pillars. Right. And your content agent doesn't necessarily need to know about your May P&L. Yeah. context that does matter, they all have access to that. - Yeah, so man, we've covered a lot of ground, and it's been awesome 'cause I don't get a chance to geek out with somebody that I know most of the people that are on the podcast, we've had a pre-interview, I'm interested in their subject matter, of course, but we don't really know each other, right? We haven't, and we broke bread a couple of times all that jazz. So if you're listening to this and you're like, "Whoa, I want you to think about something." If I ask you, "Hey, where are you on a scale of one to five when it comes to using eye eye?" I get this all the time. I have enthusiastic executives tell me, "Oh, I'm four." Like, "Great, man, what are you doing with it?" Right there, you use it all the time. Okay, great, well, tell me what it is. I use it to write emails and summarize documents, right? And that's great, that's an awesome use, and the fact that you're using it regularly for those things only opens the door for you to go, "Oh, I can also, like, it's part of the process for sure." But what we've talked about here, and this is like, like, Corey is literally like, on the edge of things trying to break these tools. This is where, this is where a four or a five is. They are thinking about these boring documents that are very powerful, but it's the design.md, it's the skill.md, it's the context document, it's the company brand voice document. It's all of those things that aren't really, like, that's not AI, right? That's you documenting the soul of your business, really, like all these different elements. And that's great, you get one context document, it's better than nothing. But then you start getting into, you know, these levels of it. Now I've got an agent, well, great. Now my agent has specialized agents that that agent can call on to. Like, and you're not doing this for a major enterprise. You're doing this to run your business to allow you to be somebody who's influenced is much greater because the ability for you to touch the full spectrum has gotten so much easier or it's being done on your behalf because you invested the time to think about, well, what do I want this agent to do? And what skills should it have? And how should it be structured? So that I'm not spending $1,500 a month on this one agent and it's tokens and all those sorts of things. So folks that are listening, we've had a wonderful conversation, but like, there are layers to this stuff. And we could have gone all day. - Yeah. - We were toning it down a little bit. So fantastic conversation. And then now you're off to go enjoy the fruits of your labor. - Yeah, yeah, absolutely. - Very cool. - And he's on his way to get his new Tesla. - Yep. - So nice. Well, thank you for taking some time out of the day here. And I want people to plug into what you're doing. So if you don't mind, maybe take a minute and just kind of share like where you're, 'cause I know how much time and energy you're putting into creating this content. I read the content, I don't waste my time. So for all of you that are listening to this, I would encourage you to pay attention to all the places, queries about the tell us to go catch up with them. - Yeah, so I mean, the main place I would send people is, so you're listening to this podcast, you obviously enjoy podcasts. Go listen to slash subscribe, build with AI. That's an even my podcast that they have a link to it in the show notes. - Yeah, and so check it out on audio platforms of course, but it's best experienced on YouTube. Because I do my podcasts in screen share style. So everyone of my episodes were sitting down, we are sharing screen and we're building, it's called build with AI. Like we're building things live or we're testing tools or we're tweaking workflows. And you can get the video version of the podcast over on my personal YouTube channel, which is just my name at Cory Gannum. But yeah, that's right, send people. And then if folks are interested in an assessment or they want to work with me directly, they can send an email to Cory, [email protected]. - So I mainly follow you on X. Where else are you putting out content? - X, LinkedIn and then YouTube slash podcast. - Yeah, okay. X is definitely my most active and the sense of like when I come up with an idea, I fire it off on X and if it does well, we turn it into a YouTube video and YouTube is where we go like super deep on a very specific, nice build or a gender topic. - I didn't know that, so I'm gonna have to catch those as well. - Yeah, very cool. Cory, thank you so much for taking the time, man. And everybody, thank you for being a listener of using AI at work. I always strive to bring people again, who are doing the thing, not just selling a product or whatever, so that we can get into these types of conversations. And you can see what it's really like to be an AI fluent, you know, ask kicking executive or business owner out there. So if you enjoyed the episode, please think about sending this along to somebody else, you know, who was on the journey. And we'd love to have them as listeners. So thanks everybody, we'll see you on next week's episode. - Thanks for tuning into using AI at work. Don't forget to subscribe for more conversations about how to use AI at work. And a special thank you to our sponsor, Chief AI Officer for Empowering Businesses with AI Education and Training. Visit their website for a free AI readiness assessment and AI strategy guide to help you get started using AI at work. That's www.chiefaioffacer.com. Follow us on Twitter at the handle using AI at work and visit [email protected] for free resources to help you harness AI in your role.