UR026: Dave Pirner (Soul Asylum) [1993 MTV Unplugged]

Welcome to Unplugged. Greetings and salutations. Welcome back to a very special bonus episode of Unplugged Revisited. The podcast that celebrates, critiques, and dives deep into the last three and a half decades of MTV Unplugged. I'm your host, Music Journalist, Pop Culture Anthropologist, and Unplugged Obsessive Will Hodge. Now, I'm calling this a bonus episode because the show is still technically in the middle of a between seasons break. I just finished up Season 2 back in April and I'm still cooking everything up about how Season 3 is going to look when we return. And of course, once all of that is finalized, I'll drop another quick bonus episode announcing all the details. But today, I'm temporarily popping back into your feed because I recently got the chance to chat with a really cool artist, someone whose music I've deeply loved since I was like 10 years old, and someone I've been hoping to chat with since I first started the podcast. Here, I'll let him introduce himself. Hey, this is Dave Perner from Soul Asylum and you're listening to Unplugged Revisited. That's right. Dave Perner, a Minneapolis alt-rock legend, Soul Asylum, hands down one of the most quintessentially '90s-is-90s bands of the whole bunch. If I want somebody to shove, I need somebody to shove, I want somebody to shove this. To be clear, me calling them that is in no way inferring that they are somehow stuck in nostalgic amber or permanently affixed to that singular Gen X decade. Not only did they amass a rabid fanbase through their ferocious live show reputation and a half dozen releases during a quite prolific 80s period, but also across the last 20 plus years, they've pretty much never stopped touring and have released a bunch more albums, including 2024's phenomenally rock-us slowly but surely. And in fact, the whole reason I'm talking to Dave today is because Soul Asylum has got another brand new release, MPLS Unplugged, coming out August 28th. For Soul Asylum fans, MPLS Unplugged is a really cool live record with a really cool backstory. As most everyone listening to this podcast knows, Soul Asylum filmed a killer episode of MTV Unplugged, complete with a string ensemble and 60s pop star Lulu as a surprise special guest back in early 93. And while we did get a scant few of the night songs sprinkled out across a couple of compilations and singles, sadly the whole episode didn't get a proper album release at the time. Fast forward 30 years and one day later and on April 22nd, 2023, the band finally released their entire 16 song MTV Unplugged set as a double disc live album, the complete unplugged NYC-93 for record store day 2023. And if just getting the album wasn't enough fan-friendly awesomeness, two days earlier, the band also played a live acoustic concert at Minneapolis's historic state theater, to not only commemorate their 30 years prior MTV Unplugged taping, but to also conjure up a little of the original episode's magic, by bringing along another string ensemble to back them up, playing over a half dozen favorites from their original unplugged setlist, and also inviting back guest keyboardist Ivan Nebel, who had joined them on the original filming session back in 93. They also threw in a couple other cool surprises during that 2023 show, like playing the live rarities, what will become of me, and Farmer John, neither of which had ever been officially released, which makes this new MPLS Unplugged album an incredibly rad and memorable entry in the Solos Island catalog on multiple levels. Getting back to me calling Solos Island one of the most quintessentially 90s-us-90s bands, I just want to quickly but properly contextualize that qualifier, because it goes beyond Solos Island just achieving all the normal commercial high points throughout the decade, though to be sure they had those too. A couple platinum albums, a couple Rolling Stone covers, a best rock song Grammy for Runaway Train, over a dozen entries on the alt rock radio charts, including a number one, a pair of top 20 Billboard Hot 100 mainstream pop hits, and a ton of high profile TV performances on MTV, SNL, Letterman, Leno, and all the rest. But it wasn't just all those traditional mile markers that makes them such an iconic "90s band," as they were also a part of so many other uniquely 90s pop cultural moments that indelibly informed and defined the decade. Like for Bill Clinton's win in the 92 presidential race, Solos Island got to close out the huge MTV rock and roll inaugural ball, and were also invited to play at the actual White House. They co-headlined the first MTV alternative Nation tour with spin doctors and screaming trees, and they played a few European tour dates on Guns and Roses infamous, riotous, cancellation prone, usual illusion tour that was constantly in the news during its two-and-a-half-year run. Dave was also a member of the absolute coolest supergroup of the decade, not named Temple of the Dog, when he played with the backbeat band, which featured Dave Grohl of Nirvana, Mike Mills of R.E.M, Greg Dooley of the Afghan Wigs, and others to record a dozen early Beatles covers for the soundtrack to the 94 film Backbeat. And in the midst of one of the decade's most notorious/radiculous musical beefs, when Kulio briefly went after Weird Al for Amish Paradise, on that exact same album, Solos Island was bestowed the left-of-center pop cultural complement of getting not won, but two Weird Al parodies, syndicated Ink, which was a direct homage to Solos Island's top 20 pop hit Miserie, as well as the night Santa went crazy, which was more of a broader style parody of Solos Island that drew heavily from their top five hit Black Gold. And not to belabor the point, but they also appeared on some of the decade's most emblematic alt-rock compilations, like both sweet relief tributes and the massively influential no-alternative comp, as well as some of its most idiosyncratic soundtracks, like clerks, twister, chasing Amy, so I married an axe murderer, I know what you did last summer, and others. In speaking of 90s movies, Dave even had a quick on-screen cameo as Jeanine Garoflo's boyfriend in the inextricably Jinx-rooted reality bites, which starred Winona Ryder, who he was dating, and who he met for the very first time, Dermal Please, backstage at Solos Island's MTV Unplug taping. Has there ever been a more quintessentially 90 set of dependent clauses, or a more flawless bringing it all back around Segway? So that's what today's episode is all about. I'm really stoked to get to my unplugged chat with Dave, plus dive into a jam-packed, spilling over version of the intersection, which, for any new listeners, is the contextualizing part of the podcast, where I spend some time setting up the interview by laying out where an artist was and where unplugged was when the two converged. But before we get into all that Solos Island MTV Unplugged awesomeness, let's take care of a couple announcements, and more on the other side of this vintage unplugged commercial break. Okay. As I mentioned before, I have a feeling this episode is going to have a hefty run time. So just two quick announcements this week. Since this episode is devoted to Solos Island, I thought it'd be fun to do a vinyl giveaway to celebrate the release of their brand new NPLS Unplugged album. Long time listeners will know how easy I like to make these vinyl giveaways, but just so everyone knows the drill, all you have to do to enter is send me an email, unplugged Revisited at GMC. email.com telling me at least one thing you like about the sole asylum MTV unplugged episode or album make sure to put the words sole asylum vinyl give away in the subject line and as a bonus you can double your chances by rating and reviewing the podcast wherever you stream it and just attach a screenshot of that to your email super easy right per usual I'll leave the entry window open for about a month before I pull a random name and contact the winner to send out the goods and if you'd like to enter but would rather have the album on CD instead of vinyl just make note of that in your email and out smooth too since my last episode there's also been some cool MTV unplugged vinyl releases that I wanted to make sure were on your radar first after last year's box set only version Neil Young's MTV Unplugged from the 93 season is finally available in the US as a standalone vinyl album second kiss celebrated the 30th anniversary of their MTV Unplugged which aired on Halloween 95 and came out as an album in 96 by pressing up a deluxe double disc embossed gatefold jacket version and third the massively exciting feverishly anticipated biggie Allison Chains is doing an amazing looking 30th anniversary vinyl rollout for their phenomenal God tier MTV Unplugged album this is the first ever official US pressing and so far I've seen at least five different color variants to pick from in the pre-orders that one's coming out in a month September 25th and I seriously couldn't be more stoked for it so that's why I reached out to my friends in the Allison Chains camp to work up a second vinyl giveaway for this episode if you want a chance to win your very own copy of the Allison Chains MTV Unplugged album on the stunning solar flare variant no less which is the swanky red and yellow marbled wax version that's exclusive to the Allison Chains website and I believe is already sold out for pre-orders. It's just as easy to enter send me an email unplugged revisited at gmail.com telling me at least one thing you like about the Allison Chains and TV Unplugged episode of Howble make sure to put the words Allison Chains vinyl giveaway in the subject line and as a bonus double your chances by rating and reviewing the podcast and attaching a screenshot to your email. And just to be clear yes you can enter both giveaways but I need you to send two separate emails so light your Natalie merchant prayer candles for luck and get those entries in quick. Let's keep things rolling with this episodes uncovered. This is this segment where I selfishly get to sprinkle even more unplugged seasoning into the episode by quickly highlighting a couple cool unplugged cover songs that are all tied around a singular theme. Taking a little influence from my previous mention of Weird Ow my pick for this episode's theme is MTV Unplugged cover songs featuring an accordion. So let's run through them. First up, a pair of squeeze box infused highlights from the 92 season. Katie Lang dreamily covering cold porter so in love. And John Mellon can't letting his accordion and violin player go to town on Dylan's all along the watch. Then you know I'm gonna mention Nirvana's unplugged anytime I can. So here's Nirvana basis Chris Novicellic briefly switching over to an accordion for the band's cover of the Vaseline's Jesus wants me for a sunbeam during their unplugged taping in November 93. And finally there's this surprising accordion anchored unplugged moment courtesy of Cheryl Crow from her 95 episode where she masterfully popped on an accordion for her cover of Led Zeppelin's Jamaica. Definitely let me know if I neglected any other killer accordion MTV Unplugged cover songs but otherwise that'll do it for our uncovered segment this episode. What do you say we go ahead and jump into this episode's supersized intersection? Here's the story of how Solasylum answered this prophetic question they had asked themselves all the way back in 1986 as well as their long wind up path to playing MTV Unplugged. So the story of Solasylum begins all the way back in 1981 within the seeds of a Minneapolis working man's punk band called Loud Fast Rules which was originally just a trio consisting of Dave Perner on lead vocals and not yet guitar but drums Dan Murphy on guitar who was in the band until his musical retirement in 2012 in Carl Mueller on bass who was in the band until his untimely passing from a soft geocancer in 2005 loud fast rules soon morphed into a four piece when drummer Pat Morley joined the group so that Dave could switch over to guitar an instrument slightly more suited for the hyper animated lead singer this not yet officially Solasylum lineup appeared on a couple cool compilations from the pivotal early 80s Minneapolis based indie label reflex records 1982's barefoot and pregnant with their songs black and blue and propaganda in 1983's kitten with the songs happy and a rambunctiously blown out cover of credence clear water revivals bad moon rising Loud Fast Rules diligently earned their stage stripes within the vibrant Minneapolis club scene famously anchored around the venerated dual venue Haven a first avenue and seventh street entry they started a massing quite a reputation as an energetic must see live act and their drive to seemingly play as many shows as possible saw them opening for bands like the Ramones Motorhead and the exploited and by the fall of 83 loud fast rules officially changed their name to Solasylum now quick context on the Minneapolis music scene during this incredibly vibrant and creative early to mid 80s window that Solasylum came up in at the time there was a lot of talk about something called the quote unquote Minneapolis sound and it was applied in equal measure to two spiritually symbiotic but sonically distinct musical branches at the risk of oversimplification let's boil that bifurcation down to a funk wing and a punk wing the func side of the house was of course led by acts like Prince more stay in the time Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis the Grammy winning R&B band mint condition and others while the punk side of the house was helmed by early hard core punk slash alternative rock pioneers like the replacements who scour do in the twin-tone records roster what's really cool about these two mutualistic musical scenes is that they were happening not just at the same time in the same city but really happening together for example princess live recordings of purple rain I would die for you and baby I'm a star which would all end up with some overdubs on his monster 13 times platinum purple rain album they were originally recorded during a first avenue concert on August 3rd 1983 and just five days later loud fast rules was opening for motorhead on the exact same stage the following year the revered village voice year-end critics poll featured three Minneapolis bands in its top 10 alone who scour do's Zen arcade at number eight the replacements let it be at number four and princess purple rain at number two in just a note these Minneapolis sound connections still carry through to the present day as solar silence current drummer Michael bland was princess drummer from 1989 through 1996 before then going on to play with former replacements frontman Paul Westberg during his solo career so that's the fertile sonic soil that solace island emerged from in early eighties Minneapolis and even just within the punk branch of the nebulous Minneapolis sound solace island held a unique position as a bit of a one-band bridge between the hardcore punk informed shall we say varsity squad of the replacements and who scour do who achieved their critical acclaim and cultural impact in the mid eighties in the subsequent alternative rock and form JV team of bands like babes and toyland the J-hawks and trip Shakespeare which would essentially go on to become semi sonic who all found their biggest successes in the nineties after solace islands mainstream breakout and our position solace island in that bridge role because around the same time that who scour do was finally starting to show up on MTV and the replacements were playing slash getting kicked off of Saturday night live that's when solace island was just starting to put out their first few albums okay quick-ish rundown of solace islands early output in 1984 the band signed with many apolis indie label twin-tone and went into the studio with who scour do frontman Bob mold as their producer to make their debut album say what you will and while their debut is unquestionably steeped in their working man's punk and proto-alternative. of roots, they also fearlessly dabbled in some of their other musical interests, like the cow-punk country twang of money talks, the Oingo Boingo-esque haunted circus vibe of walking, and the surprise thrill of Dave blowing some slick saxophone on stranger. In 1986, they got a new drummer, Grant Young, who ended up playing with the band for almost a decade, and they ratcheted up their burgeoning exposure to a wider audience by going out on a big Husker du tour and releasing three separate albums. First, in January, they released their second album, Made to Be Broken, once again on Twin Tone, once again with Bob Mold as producer, but this time with an official 7-H single tied to the tracks. Then in June, they released Times and Cinerator, which was a bit of a retrospective catch-all, collecting some of the band's rawest early demos, outtakes, and covers of acts like Johnny Cash, James Brown, and The Monkeys. And around Thanksgiving '86, they released their third album, While You Were Out, which carried forward the band's explosive rhythmic fury. While also elevating and expanding their sound, and to more melodically polished alt-rock sing-alongs, and their ever-present country folk dalliances. In 1988, Solasylum got to add their name to the long list of bands whose sonic individuality and hard-earned live-show successes allowed them the level-up of jumping from hometown indie Twin Tone to famed major label A&M records. This was not only a huge move for them, exposure-wise and opportunity-wise, but it also afforded them with some major label muscle to get to work with some incredibly talented big-name producers. On their first A&M record, 1988's Hang Time, the band was produced by Lenny Kay, most known for his work with the transcendent Patty Smith and Ed Stasium, who engineered and produced some of the most memorable remones, talking heads, and living color records. Across the summer of '88, a couple of Solasylum's Hang Time singles started getting play on MTV's 120 Minutes. First, some time to return, and then cartoon. And by the end of the year, they made their MTV live-appearance debut on the channel's short-lived talk show, Mouth to Mouth. And at the tail end of 1988, they surprisingly appeared on one of the most interesting/quirkyst children's compilations of all time. Marlowe Thomas and friends, free to be a family. Now, this charmingly oddball record, deserves its own standalone multi-episode documentary, but I'll do my best just to give you the highlights. As a follow-up to her popular early 70s award-winning children's album, book, and TV special, free to be you and me, actress Marlowe Thomas created the free to be a family, album, book, and TV special. And now, from the Hard Rock Cafe in New York, and Gostolaradio Studios in Moscow, it's free to be a family, the first satellite entertainment exchange between the United States and the Soviet Union. The album tracks were split pretty evenly between comedic entertainers, like Robin Williams, The Muppets, Lily Tomlin, Woopy Goldberg, Steve Martin, and many others. Plus, a truly bananas mixture of musicians that included, and I kid you not, Solasylum, Amy Grant, and The Fat Boys, which, coincidentally, is also my personal dream blunt rotation. Oh, and Bon Jovi appeared in the TV special, but not on the album. We don't hear much Soviet rock music here in America, so Sergei, when you sent Josh a tape of Bon Jovi, we were really surprised. Well, now have we got a surprise for you? Here is Johnny Bon Jovi, and Vyaches and Bora, I find Jovi! Here's a little snippet of Solasylum's self-compassion contribution to free to be a family. With the song, it's not my fault. Okay, moving right along into 1989, as the tirelessly prolific Solasylum continued offering up a few more killer releases. Most notably was the six-song EP, Clam Dip and Other Delights, which came out stateside in mid-April '89, and whose title and album artwork playfully poked fun at their recent move to A&M by aping one of the label's most famous albums, Whipped Cream and Other Delights, by legendary trumpetier and label co-founder, Herv Albert, literally the A of A&M. Here's Dave Kendall's quick hit record review of Clam Dip on 120 minutes. Here's something to cheer you up. Clam Dip for another Delights. It's an EP from Solasylum that came out in Britain last year. Now Americans can get stuck in too. And although the first tracks now is like Led Zeppelin, the rest are fine examples of that unique Minneapolis recipe, sweetened melody, dunked in oiling grass. They also got their very first soundtrack placement in '89, contributing the Clam Dip track just plain evil to the indie film Lost Angels, which starred Ad Rock from the Beastie Boys and featured some other great late 80s tracks from Soundgarden, The Cure, The Poems, and Happy Mondays. And during the summer of '89, they also appeared on the absolutely amazing Neil Young tribute record, The Bridge. Alongside the Pixies, Victoria Williams, Dinosaur Junior, Sonic Youth, Nick Cave, and many others. Solasylum was actually picked to lead off the album with their blissfully bussy take on Neil's Zuma era gem, Barstool Blues. Quick side note, this was actually the first Solasylum song I really remember paying attention to. During summer break between 3rd and 4th grade, my older sister, Ashley, had a best friend, Amy, who was over at our house with her boyfriend, whose name I can't really remember. And he overheard me listening to the Pixies do-little album, and let me borrow his tape of The Bridge to hear their cover of Winter Laugh. I was already a Pixies fan, but that tape is what first turned me into a Solasylum fan as well. So thank you to Amy's suburban dirt vault summer boyfriend, wherever you may be. Okay, shifting into the decade where Solasylum would experience their massive mainstream breakthrough, the band first started making some bigger national waves with the release of their 5th full-length studio album, 1990s, and the horse they rode in on. The albums ran bunches lead single, Spinon, landed the band their first billboard modern rock top 20. And its follow-up single, Easy Street, almost repeated, peaking just outside the top 20. Once again, it was 120 minutes that ended up being Solasylums biggest advocated MTV, debuting their video for Easy Street in late 1990 and having them cut a station ID promo in early 91. Hi, I'm Dave, and I'd be Dan, and we're from Solasylums, and you're watching 120 minutes on MTV. And when the show released its retrospective CD, never mind the mainstream, the best of MTV's 120 minutes, in the fall of 91. They included Solasylums hang-time single, some time to return. Amongst all the other XTCs, Shenato Conor, they might be giants and sonic youth awesomes. Now, you might remember that in this specific fall 91 window, the alternative music scene was right on the cusp of mainstream breakthrough, but it hadn't fully happened just yet. The one-two punch of Pearl Jam's 10 and Nirvana's Nevermind were released that August and September, and Nevermind wouldn't overtake Michael Jackson's dangerous at the number one spot on the Billboard 200 album chart until mid-January 92. However, Nirvana's eventual mainstream takeover, along with their fellow Big 4 comrades in the Grunge subgenre, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, and Allyson Chains, they all helped to send big money major labels, scrambling to the alt-rock underground to sign the ever-illusive Next Big Thing. And Solasylums was definitely one of the bands that, thanks to a solid decade of different drum musicality and tireless work ethic, were more than prepared for that fortuitous moment. And they ended up getting snapped up by Columbia records. Turning them into labelmates/strangebedfo with acts like Alice in Chains, Toad the Wet Sprocket, Bruce Springsteen, and Mariah Carey. "Do you think people realize that Soul Asylum is in an overnight sensation?" "You get a lot of time, I really like to be restricted, stuff like that." So that brings us to Soul Asylum's insane 92-93 era, where they released their most celebrated and respected album, achieved their biggest commercial successes, and were invited to play both MTV Unplugged and the White House. "What was that like?" "Well, it was very strange to have it though." Let's begin this rundown on October 6, 1992, when a freshly signed to Columbia Soul Asylum released what would become their signature album, Grave Dancer's Union. And while it would eventually go double platinum, win a Grammy, generate a Billboard Hot 100 Top 5 Smash, hit number 11 on the Billboard 200, and land in the International Top 10 across a half dozen countries. The initial album rolled out, unfolded in a pretty standard measured fashion. A couple weeks before Grave Dancer's Union came out, the band stayed true to their punk rock roots, and released the blistering "Somebody to Shove" as the album's lead single. Unsurprisingly, the explosive track eventually made it all the way to number 1 on the Billboard alternative chart, while also hitting top 10 on the US rock chart, and cracking the top 40 on the UK singles chart. On October 11, just a few days after the album release, the band got their first special guest spot on 120 minutes. "It's Dave and Dan from Soul Asylum with us on MTV's 120 minutes, the latest album is called Grave Dancer's Union, and many ways the music scene has changed more than you have. Perhaps this is a ripe time for Soul Asylum to actually break. As one of the songs was cool that I thought was going to make it onto the album, "I haven't changed." "You haven't changed?" "I haven't changed your clothes." "Well, I'm kind of in dirty." In November, the band contributed a cover of the 70s punk classic Baby Baby to the alt rock covers comp freedom of choice. "I'm going straight to baby baby." Before also making their big splash mainstream TV debut on Letterman. Our next guests are considered one of the best live bands in the country, and they're not too bad in the city. Thank you very much. Guess we've given him the night off. This is their new album here. It's entitled The Grave Dancer's Union, and this is their Network Television debut. Ladies and gentlemen, here is Soul Asylum. The day after their Letterman appearance, they started up a big co-headlining tour with the Lemon Heads, and then celebrated the year-end holidays by playing the annual K-Rock almost acoustic Christmas alongside Durandoran, violent films, Suzanne Vega and others, and then opening for the Beastie Boys at the Michigan State Fairgrounds on New Year's Eve. The band kicked off a head spinningly busy 1993 in January, with the release of their second Grave Dancer's Union single, the acoustic-spiced radio-ready social commentary Black Gold. The song quickly became an alt-rock top 10, and the band got to be special guest host on 120 minutes for an entire episode. "Hey, hey, hey, I'm Dave again, and I'm Carl still, and we're still from Soul Asylum, and we're still going to be your host for 120 minutes on TV." Special guest on MTV tonight. Also in January '93, Soul Asylum played a hugely popular, historically important gig, when they joined 10,000 maniacs, in Vogue, members of REM and YouTube, and others to play MTV's Rock and Roll inaugural ball, celebrating Bill Clinton's first presidential win. "You know, you've got a new president, American, he gets it, enjoy, good night." In TV and their high-profile Rock the Vogue campaign, were considered significant contributing factors in Clinton's win. In Soul Asylum got double tap for the inauguration night event, which the Clinton family showed up for. They first played somebody to shove and Black Gold during their mid-show slot, and then got to close out the entire show with a cover of Fleetwood Max Don't Stop, which was the de facto Clinton Gore campaign song. Two nights later, they made another big late-night TV stop when they made their first Leno appearance. "Rolling Stone magazine described the music of my next guest as "Thinking Man's Thrash," they were. "All right, they're all going to call the best live band in America, performing their hit "Somewood to Show" from the latest CD, "Great Dancers Union," right from the inauguration Soul Asylum. Across the spring of '93, Soul Asylum balanced their time between a grueling road-eye tenor area, opening for Keith Richards and headlining their own Grave Dancers Union tour, while also popping up all over TV for some high-profile promo spots. Like the NBA All-Star Jam, MTV's Spring Break at Daytona Beach, and Saturday Night Live. Hi, I'm Miranda Richardson. I'll be hosting Saturday Night Live with Soul Asylum. By the way, the Secret of the Crime Games. Whoa, don't do it! Don't ruin the secret! I love a good secret! This was also when they filmed their MTV Unplugged episode. But, uh, more on that in a minute. They then launched into an incredibly busy summer '93. By first releasing what would become their signature hit, runaway train, and mid-may. Now, the acoustic-fronted song itself was an absolute smash on its own merits. Top 20 on the alternative chart? Their first crossover to the mainstream pop chart, where it went top five, an eventual double platinum certification, and even a Grammy win for Best Rock Song. But it was the Tony K-directed music video that really helped cement the song into the cultural consciousness. As its milk-carton-esque montage of real-world missing children, which had a few different regional and international variations, was run in super-heavy rotation on MTV and reportedly led to the physical return for informational resolution of over 20 kids featured in the original video. As runaway train was hitting max exposure on radio and MTV across the summer of '93, Soul Asylum embarked on a few more big tours. First joining Guns and Roses to open some European shows on the ill-fated user illusion tour, and then co-headlining MTV's three-month-long alternative nation tour with spend-doctors and screaming trees. They also dropped a couple cool extras over the summer. First, gorgeously covering Victoria William's Summer of Drugs for the first sweet relief charity comp, which netted them another top-20 hit on All Rock Radio. ♪ From the teens of the late '70s ♪ In the summer of the sun ♪ And then having their black-gold B-side the break, appear in the Mike Myers movie so I married an axe-marker. ♪ I have a kid, my prey ♪ ♪ We got sick, I'm gonna make my prey clean ♪ Both on the soundtrack and within the film. ♪ Hurry, it's me, Charlie! ♪ Also during that whirlwind summer, Grave Dancer's Union landed its first platinum certification. And a week later, they were gracing their first rolling stone cover under the apropos headline Platinum Punx. Heading into the fall of '93, the, shall we say, runaway train of the band's pop cultural omnipresence, barreled on. They first dropped by the '93 MTV VMAs to deliver a killer version of runaway train with special guest Victoria Williams on acoustic guitar and REM's Peter Buck on Mandolin. Though it sounds like I was far more blown away by the one-off magnificence than Dave could cop to during the after-show interviews. It's just a gig, you know. Just play a song. It's no big deal. That's all they're asking me to do. So, it was nothing, really. The next day, they made their return appearance on Letterman. Our next band is, uh, unbelievable. They're terrific. Whenever I hear them, it makes me want to dive right into the old mosh pit. In a few weeks after that, they made their return appearance on Clinton. When they were surprisingly invited to play a few songs on the South Lawn of the White House. Hi, I'm Kurt Loader with MTV News. Solar Sala made a little bit of history on Tuesday morning. Not their usual hour, we suspect. And the band became the first to perform at the Clinton White House. And a month later, they contributed a surprisingly non-winky quasi-faithful cover of Marvin Gaye's sexual healing. To the era defining, alt-rock-heavy, age-relief charity comp, no alternative. Which also featured Nirvana, the breeders, Patty Smith, smashing pumpkins, Matthew Sweet, Soundgarden, Beastie Boys, and so many other legends. [Music] Alongside all these other signs of the band's newfound popularity and success, another example of Runaway Train fully breaking genre containment out into the mainstream, is that it also became easy shorthand for an SNL skit about Michael Jordan's first of three NBA retirements. [Music] [Music] By years in, after all that craziness and about 150 live appearances, MTV's 120 Minutes capped off the band's feverishly hectic 93 by awarding them Number two, most popular alt rock video of the entire year. Amidst an insanely stacked field mind you, Nirvana's heart-shaped box, radio heads creep, breeders cannonball, cranberries lingered, Juliana Hatfield, the lemon heads, Bjork, every single one of them was ranked below runaway trains. - We're counting down the top 20 alternate music videos of 1993, and we are down to number two. And if there was ever a band that deserved success, it was Solasylum and they got it in the year of 1993. After a decade of non-stop touring, non-existent radio support. - Okay, right smack dab in the midst of all of that chaotic, fun/work, Solasylum also filmed their stellar episode of MTV Unplugged, which around this time, as a show, was both experiencing its own well-deserved glow-up after three seasons of musical maturation and pop cultural entrenchment. Thank you, Mariah, thank you, Eric. And also gently shifting his genre anchor from being mostly seasoned rock and metal acts over to the flourishing youth-oriented alternative scene. And while it's true that prior seasons had a few standout, alt-rock-unplugged episodes from bands like The Cure, Pearl Jam, and my beloved REM, the 93 season was gloriously alt-rock heavy on its own. Solasylum, Nirvana, Stone Temple Pilots, the 10,000 Maniacs full episode, even Midnight Oil, while also paving the way for a bunch more high-water alternative shows to come in the following years, Bjork, Hole, Allison Chains, The Cranberries, Live Oasis, even Cheryl Crowe's early all-to-jason era. So it was a really cool window of the show's pop cultural growth when Solasylum filmed their episode on April 21st, 1993. The previous summer, Mariah Carey's Unplugged Cover of the Jackson Fives, I'll be there, jumped from TV to radio to become a Billboard Hot 100 chart-topping hit. And a few months later, Eric Clapton's Unplugged got released as a full-length album, which went on to sell a reported 26 million copies worldwide. At the time of the Solasylum taping, however, the show had not yet hit its next big bump of generating repeat, multi-format radio hits with acts like Jodicy, Rod Stewart, and 10,000 Maniacs. In fact, speaking of 10,000 Maniacs, you know I always like to mention which artists did their unplugged within the same filming session. So in Solasylum's case, they were part of a two-day four-show filming session, Midnight Oil, and the first spoken word unplugged on April 20th, with Solasylum and 10,000 Maniacs both filming on April 21st. Solasylum's episode was first broadcast on MTV on June 2nd, right in the middle of a special unplugged premiere week that aired 10,000 Maniacs the day before in Midnight Oil the day after. - Unplugged premiere week continues tonight at 10, with Solasylum. - One of the things that made Solasylum's unplugged such a rare and distinctive standout performance for the band is that they really seem to pay special attention to each of the four unofficial unplugged characteristics. They reworked their hits and back catalog favorites, spiced them up with some special instrumentation, whipped out a couple cool cover songs, and even brought along a surprise special guest, which was a trend that really just started in earnest during that 93 season. So they were kind of on the front end of that. As far as their expanded unplugged instrumental palette, Dave, Dan, Carl and Grant were joined by a string trio of cello, violin, and viola, as well as Ivan Neville, son of R&B legend, Aaron Neville, on B3 organ and piano, and musical director Michael Blair on Glockenspiel, Kongas, and various other percussion. The band used these ornamental sonic textures and some really cool ways, especially on their current trio of grave dancers' union hits. They built out the B3 bed of set opener runaway train with staccato strings and Glockenspiel flerishes. ♪ Bing is cut and dry day and night ♪ ♪ Earth and sky ♪ And during Black Gold, they had one of the string players switch over to an eerily entrancing water funer to evoke the unsettling police siren samples of the original's mid-song breakdown. (upbeat music) But the most interesting element of the addition of the strings came during the band's agitated barn burner somebody to shove, where the song's gritty electric guitar riff, not exactly the most acoustic-friendly motif, was cleverly handed over to the strings to not just retain, but also reinvent the song's biting angsty polts. (upbeat music) Alongside their radio hits, the band unplugged and expanded a few more cuts from their soon-to-be platinum grave dancers' union album. Amping up the original syrupy string passages of the sun-made and new world, letting the B3 carry the original electric growl without a trace, adding some piano to the campfire folk of homesick, and using conga drums to impuse some extra-percussive oomph to get on out. ♪ Out of my head, out of my head ♪ ♪ Out of my head, out of my head ♪ ♪ Out of my head, out of my head ♪ Throughout the set, they also continually dipped into their bat catalog, reworking grounded in Wii 3 from their 1990 and the horse they rode in on album, highlighting their long-time acoustic bonafides with never really been from their sophomore album made to be broken, and completely reimagining the raw electric rumble of closer to the stars from 1986's While You Were Out. From this. ♪ Can't have been let calling up the big phone call ♪ ♪ Is that somebody that you want to talk to ♪ To this. ♪ You know that pretty soon you'll be able to fly ♪ ♪ How is this going to affect you? ♪ But my personal favor of their unplugged oldies was their decade later take on Stranger, off their debut album way back in 1984. And while I would have absolutely loved to see Dave pull out his swanky saxophone again, his decision to instead play the horn lines on a harmonica was a pretty cool update. ♪ ♪ ♪ For their unplugged cover choices, well, Solos Island has always been one of those bands that cast an incredibly wide net when it comes to their ability to reinterpret other artist songs into their own vibe and unplugged with certainly no exception. First off, impossibly my most favorite track of the whole set. This was the live debut of their absolutely enchanting Victoria Williams cover of Summer of Drugs, which sadly didn't make the TV broadcast as the sweet relief comp wouldn't be out for another month or so. But man, is it so good? ♪ Sister got bit by a copperhead ♪ ♪ Snake in the woods behind the house ♪ Second, they closed out the taping with what was almost going to be their fan favorite tongue-in-cheek romp through Glenn Campbell's rhinestone cowboy. - Wanna do rhinestone? - Uh, we can't. We promised up really stupid. - Before they instead pivoted to a song they've been covering often on since the mid '80s, the 1973 UK hit Ula-la by the Faces, which in keeping with the tradition of this being one of the Faces songs that Ron Wood sung instead of Rod Stewart, Dan handled the lead vocals instead of Dave. ♪ Oh, oh, grandpa ♪ ♪ Left it on his words ♪ - And third, this one isn't technically a cover, but in the grand tradition of oddball unplugged between song snippets, you know, Nirvana and Meet Puppets goofing off on a few bars of sweet home Alabama, Alice and Chains doing gloom, despair, and agony on me from Heehaw, et cetera. There was the briefest of Blinken you'll miss it between song foolishness. This song "Soul of Silom" channel a little Garth Brooks. (audience cheering) And finally, blending together unplugged characteristic cover song element with the surprise special guest element. One of the most unexpected, yet flawlessly awesome moments of the show came when the band brought out 60s UK pop icon Lulu to do it with Dave on her 1967 chart topping, "U.S. Hit" to "Sur With Love." ♪ Those school go day ♪ ♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh ♪ ♪ Telling tales and by heart and nails are gone ♪ And I wanna note, what made this performance so cool and arresting is that this wasn't one of those '90s winky novelty jokes. You know, Tom Jones covering Lenny Kravitz's, are you gonna go my way for the jerky boy soundtrack? Or Steve and Edie doing black hole son on that lounge of Halusa compilation? This was a legit, yes, intentionally nostalgic, but in no wings, genuine tip of the hat tape that turned out a really cool and singularly unique unplugged moment. ♪ To tell ♪ ♪ We're in love ♪ And as an interesting and still completely related side note, this wasn't the first cover of "To Sur With Love" to get a high profile MTV moment in 1993. As earlier in the year, at the rock and roll inaugural ball where solo silent also played, during 10,000 maniacs set, the majestic musical pairing [BLANK_AUDIO] Natalie Merchant and Michael Steit delivered an enrapturing duet of Tissur with Love. ♪ Tissur with love with love ♪ Listen, it's in no way a competition. I'm just saying we were undoubtedly living in an absolute golden age of GeneX musical awesomeness. So, after the initial batch of solosilum unplugged re-airings across the summer and fall of 93, sadly their episode didn't materialize into a proper album release. Though, thankfully for us compilation and CD single zealots, a few of their official MTV unplugged tracks did turn up across a couple releases. Somebody to shove and stranger appeared on their live acoustic electric hybrid EP, Insomniac's Dream in the summer of 94. Somebody to shove showed up on the multi-artist unplugged collection volume 1 in late 94. And closer to the stars, stranger and somebody to shove, could all be found as B-size across various import iterations of the Gravedancer's Union singles as well. But thankfully, everything changed in 2023, when for the 30th anniversary, solosilum finally blessed us with their entire glorious 16-song MTV unplugged set. Even the unaired tracks on the complete unplugged NYC 93. And to bring it all back around, they played their unplugged commemorating acoustic show, again with Ivan Neville in a string section in tow, which is now also being released as the brand new live album in PLS Unplugged. Okay, I am fully aware that I built this episode's intersection as really more of my own love letter to solosilum, and I'm pretty sure most of you actually tuned in to hear Dave talk unplugged. So let us tear you no further friends. Here's my unplugged revisited chat with solosilums Dave Perner. I'm super stoked to be sitting here today with the ultra-rad Dave Perner of solosilum to talk about the band's hot off the presses brand new acoustic live album in PLS Unplugged, as well as their 30 plus years ago transcendent performance on MTV Unplugged. My genuine massive thanks from both my current self and the 13-year-old me for joining the show today, Dave, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me, Will, I appreciate it too. Well, before I mentally hustle you back to 1993, let's actually start in the present day, and have you tell us a little bit about the 30 years in the making story behind your brand new acoustic live album in PLS Unplugged? Well, there's an old theater in downtown Minneapolis where I've seen many great shows, and I think it probably came up that it had been 30 years since the. we had done the MTV Unplugged thing, which was the first time we ever did anything like that. So, I don't know, I guess they re-issued that record or something, and we're like, "Ah, that was fun, it was great." At the time, we did that, we had never done anything even remotely similar to that. So, we've done stuff over the years, but we're like, "Okay, let's do it." Let's do it in Minneapolis and see how it goes. So, it was cool. You know, you're organizing a lot of musicians that aren't in the band, that are some of them are your favorites, like Ivan Neville, or the Robertson background singers. So, it's exciting to be on stage with the people that you really like. And it's still kind of spontaneous because it's not overrehearsed. But at the same time, the string players are reading, and Ryan did a lot of string arrangements for this show, and which was awesome, and we got Ivan Neville to come up, and he was on the MTV Unplugged thing. So, he's kind of part of the thing that links all this together somehow. But yeah, it worked out pretty good, I think. I mean, I think that's good. Yeah, I completely concur. It's absolutely phenomenal album, and it's really cool to have both of the albums, the original 93 filming, and then also the 2023 sort of commemorative live show, and kind of play those together and see not only what's changed, but also, you know, what still feels awesome and familiar as well. Yeah, I think that when we did the MTV thing, it was really good production, and we didn't have anything to do with it. So, we just, you know, we showed up, and we did our thing, and this time around, it was so much more like we can do anything in that strange way, where I had a hell of a lot of ambition 35 years ago, or whatever. But now, I don't need these other people, really. So, it ended up that our bass player Jeremy Topero mixed the record, and I think our guitar player Ryan Smith's brother filmed it. And so, there's a Minneapolis kind of thing, which was nice, because the first time we did it, we were in New York, and we were, well, that is wise as we are now. There you go. But still, that's amazing to have that DIY run through all the way through it. You know, with Solas Island being birthed in the bowels of, like, early 80s Minneapolis working man's punk, what was that experience? Like, how's it been for you, at least twice now, to play your normally cranked to 11 songs, backed up by a string ensemble? Well, you know, when we did the unplug thing, it was very experimental in a way that we hadn't never done anything like that before. And we've always kind of done little acoustic sort of, we go out and play a acoustic show just for the hell of it basically. And it's, you know, I think right before the MTV thing, I started writing more on the acoustic guitar, and realizing that it was just as viable, I suppose, as the electric guitar, and they, you know, lucky for me, they both played the same instrument basically. That looks out pretty good. So it actually, you know, funnily enough leads into the next question. I kind of wanted to even zoom out a little more just to the concept of, quote unquote, acoustic music. Even before you ever started writing songs, when you were just growing up as a kid, what was your connection or lack thereof to music with acoustic guitars? Oh, I think I went to the local community place one summer when I was very, very young. And that was the first time I ever took a guitar lesson, and it was like songs like Tom Dooley and Eerie Canal and like real, funky kind of simple songs. And I don't know, my hands were too small or something. This guitar is hard, so I switched to trumpet, which is way harder in a lot of ways. But always, my mother was encouraging of that. She always wanted her kids to have music as something to fall back on, which I think is kind of funny now. So, you know, I got enough lessons on the trumpet and then in high school band. The other trumpet player who's still a friend of mine gave me his brother's copy of, are you experienced? And at that point, I kind of threw my hands up in the air because I had switched to saxophone because like Bruce Springsteen and Bob Seager and all these saxes were big and rock. But really, I just wanted to get into, you know, into New Orleans for 24 years. So, I still suck at the trumpet. That's my joke. You're supposed to blow on it. But I suck on it. But anyways, it all kind of comes together. I was, you know, just a radio kid when I was really little listening to the transistor radio under the covers. And when we got home from doing, going to the grocery store, I would ask my mother to leave the radio on so I could hear the end of the song while she went inside. Little things like that, you know. Then I just went, you know, had first into it when I started my first band, which was called The Shits, by the way. Amazing. I love it. On those early solo silent albums, so I'm thinking like pre-graved dancers union, there's a scattered handful of acoustic numbers, like Never Really Been, P9, Twitley D. Was there ever any pushback, internal or external to including those acoustic moments amidst all the other cranked up barn burners? No. I mean, I guess Never Really Been was kind of the first sort of song in that kind of a vein. But I'm the record. I don't think I even played acoustic guitar on it, if I remember correctly. but not really. I mean, you know, the The band was called loud fast rules before it was called full asylum, so Everything was supposed to be loud and fast. Yeah, so It wasn't really something I was thinking about I guess never really been was the point where people just went okay But let's put this on the record because we're never gonna know what kind of band this is or something Yeah, well just in reading a ton of interviews with you over the years and you also kind of already alluded to it a little bit I know there was sort of a shift in how you related to the acoustic guitar around that you know late 80s very early 90s window Can you tell us that story of what was going on for you like instrument-wise and hearing-wise and stuff as you were writing the songs for what would eventually become grave dancers union? Trying to remember the sequence of things Yeah, I started realizing that I was fucking up my hearing We were just playing at unbelievably loud volumes in very small rooms and You know doing stupid things like getting drunk and putting your head in a bass drum because it's funny and And I just keep it things like that just feeding back your guitar for For shits and giggles, I guess so it kind of resulted in a crisis for me and I talked to Pete Townsend about it. I talked to Steve Albini about it. I talked with a couple other people about it and Once you fuck it up, you can't really fix it. Yeah, yeah, look through that whole thing It's like I have to go to another Expert to also say there's nothing you can do about it Which sent me into a whole weird thing with a holistic medicine and All this kind of crazy crazy stuff So while this is happening I got so paranoid about noise that I just started playing the acoustic guitar and I didn't want to go to band practice with the loud shit and I didn't want to expose myself to anything that was gonna make it worse But in the meantime, I'm learning that you can get used to anything which is very Important lesson And if people are like you're gonna get people tell you you're gonna get through something and people tell you other people get through these things And people tell you all this kind of stuff, but you don't believe it or I don't believe it because I've already gone So far down this spiral of like how am I gonna play music if I can't hear it, you know there's a scene and The movie about Beethoven and Gary Oldman is playing Beethoven and he puts his head on the piano so he can hear it Because he's blown his hearing out, but you know, it's it's What do they call that? It's an occupational hazard. Yeah, yeah, and I've learned to Manage it if you will and that's kind of the side effect was like doing acoustic gigs Turning out kind of good because it people actually like that which I wouldn't be willing to admit when I was 25 Like fuck all that mellow music, you know, or whatever it is So come from a very sort of punk rock place where I had thrown classical music out I went to a music class at the University of Minnesota and I just felt alienated and Yeah, the more I the more I was driven away from the the classical training and all that kind of stuff The more I was driven into the world of the Ramones and the sex pistols and and that kind of thing Which I was where I was at when I was 18 or 19. I was pissed off about everything. Right. Well, it's off about stuff Will but you know, yeah, right you'll find different ways to make music or it just becomes pretty redundant So there's always that there's always some punk rock records every song sounded the same other Records punk rock or whatever there's a lot of different dynamics and what is you know different time signatures and feels and all kinds of stuff going on And that's more what I gravitate towards a band that can play something really really loud and aggressive and effectively But also play like like some girls from the Rolling Stones was it was great record for me because it had like a country song on it in and like kind of a disco song on it and Yeah, so it had these elements or Led Zeppelin, you know, they have these quiet passages and yeah into that sort of more dynamics and stuff Which just kind of evolved out of just playing everything loud and as fast as you can. Yeah, that's awesome I love sort of here and you talk about that journey of kind of there being some aversion to acoustic guitar But then also sort of being driven into experimenting with it and playing around with it because one of the things that I love so much about how you utilize the acoustic guitar Especially around Grave Dancers Union is it you really found this sweet spot between like versatility and sincerity but also like familiarity Meaning like no matter if the acoustic was front and center like sun made or new world or really going toe-to-to with the electrics like on black gold It never felt like solar asylum had I guess maybe gone a different direction or anything It just felt very sequential and intuitive. Did it feel like that to you at the time or did it feel like something brand new for the band? Definitely felt like it was just part of the evolution and the exploration of what can you do with the limited amount of knowledge that is required And you know the mother of invention thing where you take what you have and you make something else out of it But yeah, it seemed pretty pretty natural to me in a way that like our last record slowly but surely there's nothing acoustic on it The Steve Jordan was just like just play the electric you know forget about the acoustic guitar and it was great because you're honest it's a little more fun to play an electric guitar People anyways Right, yeah, you're very animated frontman as well so while don't get me wrong You you have managed to make an acoustic a low-slung acoustic look very cool There is just something about being that animated with an electric guitar that just it just hits the eye better you know than an acoustic sometimes It's easier to swing around for sure There you go, that's right, yeah So I love hearing you know when you're when you're talking about these sort of like punk roots and the Ramones and stuff like that I was curious when you guys did get asked to play MTV unplugged back in 93 what was your own impression of the show at that time did it feel like sort of this experimental songwriter showcase or did it feel like you know a lame acoustic show I think at that time we were just doing whatever we were just constantly traveling and we fly to fucking Japan to interviews and a show or whatever So it was just another sort of thing moving so fast that it's like okay, let's do this let's do this and we're gonna do that It's like that's intimidating yeah, so to have it work out was a big deal Wow, we did that. I didn't know we could do that So to that effect it was a pleasant surprise and I wasn't really in the in the way of oh this is what whatever people think of MTV unplugged now It was the only thing on MTV that was people really playing their instruments Absolutely Which a pretty big deal yeah after a while I was like oh I'd be sitting here going now and watching tiny desk and the reason I like to watch it is because it's people really playing And if you think about it MTV was on like 24/7 but everyone was lip syncing and everyone was doing videos where they were pretending to play So that was the real thing and that's what made it cool for me Yeah Absolutely Mostly that we could pull it off right yeah, and I mean you absolutely did I've always if it's not plainly evident having an MTV unplugged centric podcast absolutely love the bands that really took the time to really see what the show could be more so than just like Oh yeah sure we'll play our normal songs on acoustic guitar or whatever and so because y'all did it so well I wanted to see if I could get your specific insights and memories on just a few like key moments from your 93 MTV unplugged That I think really sort of set you guys even like at an upper level even from some of the other cool unpluggeds that were going on at the time So if we start with the show opener runaway train B3 organ a string trio Glockenspiel you know how did that version feel compared to when it was just you for playing it live during a normal show I always forget that we open with that single hadn't come out yet. So it was all pretty still pretty new. You know, it was resolved very. I don't think when we made the record, we were thinking, oh, this is adaptable, adaptable. I keep trying to figure out how to say that word. Do, uh, you know, something like that with strings and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, when we, when we played somebody shoved with strings and then decided to drop out the drums, it became a completely different animal. Same song. Yeah. Same lyrics. But, uh, the strings were doing what I would call the chugging that a guitar does. And it does have some, you know, some momentum that's then it needs, uh, so I think that surprised us all that that was even possible. Yeah. So that's led to many more. Well, maybe we could do this like that or this like that. So to that effect, it was, uh, it was great. It's just very surprising, I think, to all of us going, wow, you know, we can do this. Yeah. Somebody in the show was actually the, the next one that I wanted to actually about because I was very curious like who had that sort of like amazingly clever idea to say instead of just being like all man, somebody to shove is like too loud and awesome to play acoustically to actually move that riff and everything over to the, uh, strings. Like who, when did that idea first started coming up? Like who gets credit for that? Uh, I don't know. Okay. I have no idea, but I do know that this is the first time I've brought up Michael. I think his last name is Michael Blair, a percussionist that I was a big fan of. I didn't, I thought an MD was a doctor at that point, but that's a musical director. We kind of hired him to do that. He was playing percussion, but also kind of gone, uh, maybe more of that and less of that or something. So it very well could have been his idea to just not have drums on that song. Oh wow. Yeah. I think only knew him. Didn't he play with Tom weights? Yes. Yes. He played with like, uh, yeah, I kind of tracked him down. Very cool. Okay. Um, so the next one I wanted to ask you about, how about that arresting acoustic reworking of closer to the stars? What inspired the idea for that sort of creative sonic overhaul of that song? Well, I was song, I think the acoustic thing was sort of bubbling for a long time. So closer to the stars was written on an acoustic guitar, but at the time, as we were saying, the band didn't use acoustic guitars. I immediately adapted it to a punk rock kind of a song. And at one point or another, we did it acoustically and that was probably closer to what was accurately going on in my head at the time when I was writing the song. So yeah, it took a while to to realize that, I think, yeah, everything had to have a certain amount of brute force and intensity and, uh, reverence. That's so cool to think about that not being like a new reinvention, but more like that was actually getting back to the genesis of how you wrote it. That's cool. I'm going to be thinking about that next time I hear that. Okay. I mean, you're getting, you're discovering music as you're growing up. And like you hear Metallica for the first time, but you're also getting turned on to Woody Guthrie. That's kind of how it works for me. Sometimes you're finding new things that are new and sometimes you're finding new things that are old. Yeah. There you go. So another oldie to ask you about stranger while I totally dig the harmonica that you played on unplugged, I got to know if there was a moment where you considered actually playing a saxophone on unplugged. Well, it's funny when I played saxophone on that song on the record. Paul Stark, the guy that ran Twin Tone Records was recording it. And I could sort of tell that he was telling and it was just as terrible instrument that I bought at a garage sale or something. And to me, it's it's not great. It's like I wasn't really even playing sax at the time. I think, oh, maybe I could play it on the harmonica, which is, you know, no, it didn't make me want to carry a saxophone around for one song. It's going to get kicked off the sax stand at some point or another. And I've had these experiences before where you want to take a shitty instrument on the road because you don't want to bring your good trumpet. Yeah. It sounds terrible or you're just a terrible player, but there's a couple of things that I've done as a multi instrumentalist, which is basically Jack of all trades master of none. Where I probably, if I were to do it today and I needed to have sax on that song, I would get a sax player to do it. Oh, okay. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. Try it myself first and then go nah. Right, right. We'll keep our eyes out for that. We'll see if it shows up one day. Well, as far as your unplugged cover songs, I got to say, first dude, anytime you sing summer of drugs, it's like one of my absolute favorite covers of all time. So I was just curious, how'd you first get connected to the sweet relief compilations and what drew you to picking summer of drugs for y'all's entry? Well, the speaking of acoustic stuff, not that long ago, we did me and Ryan did to run up the West Coast and Victoria opened for us and that was a great full circle sort of thing. Victoria Williams is one of my favorite songwriters. And at some point or another, there was a connection between I had members of the J-Hawks had been roommates and I became aware of Victoria Anton Fear had produced her first record and he said, you have to fall in love with your singer. And that was his producer advice to me. And, you know, by and by, I listened to more and more of Victoria's music and then I mattered and then we wrote a song together. I just remember going through her record and because it was like, oh, we're going to make this benefit record and raise some money and we're going to cover Victoria's songs and the summer of drugs just jumped out at me and I still call it one of the best first verses ever written and I love singing it. But yeah, she's great and we got to play it at McCabe's in LA together and I sort of, I was like, watch this Victoria and we do this, whoa, whoa, and the whole crowd is singing back to us and she's just like, holy shit, you know, now it was really cute. I changed the key or something but is incredible. And she's going to put a new record out pretty soon, which is pretty really. Oh, that's so good to hear. Breaking news, I love it. She's, she's absolutely one of my favorite musicians. She does my absolute favorite cover. I've had yourself a very little Christmas just, I mean, it's, it's absolutely amazing. But I also love knowing that you love singing that song as well because that, I think that helps it solidify in me even more whenever I've heard you sing easily 30, 40 cover songs, but there's something about when you sing that one that just feels like you're really like channeling it in some sort of unique way. I just, I love it. I'm glad you guys did it on unplugged. And then of course, if we're talking unplugged and unplugged cover songs, we can't let you go without talking about you getting to do to sir with love that duet with Lulu as your surprise special guest. Tell us how that killer moment came to be because the special guest on MTV unplugged thing, you guys were kind of on the front end of that trend. I think the story goes something like this. We were covering that song. And yeah, we used to cover just anything that like sexual healing because, because you don't really want to hear a punk band play that song. And that's what makes it interesting. Yeah. So to sir with love was, I had the 45 when I was a kid, it was just a song I was loved. Well, that was another moment where I learned the song, brought it into practice. And we're like, holy shit, we can kind of play this. Um, so Lulu was doing, I think she had a record coming out or something. Um, and Natalie Merchant was also doing an unplugged thing. So somehow or another, Natalie Merchant wanted to do to serve with love with her too, but she chose us. Oh, wow. For some strange reason. Then we played it with her in England. And the punk rock crowd was like, who the hell is this person? Like it's so interesting the way all that stuff works out. But you know, she was absolutely delightful. I mean, if you cover a song for a while, that's the same thing with Victoria and then you hear the person saying before you did. You're kind of, you're getting a real-time schooling somewhere. But she was really sweet, and it's a really weird choice, and I think that's what makes it interesting. And that was just a coincidence that she happened to be, like, in town promoting something. But yeah. That's so cool. Do it. You know? Yeah. Because it also just feels very genuine and, like, not winky, like, we're trying to, like, make fun of it or something, because, like, I remember around that time, you would see, like, I remember seeing Don Hose, seeing the Beastie Boy sabotage on, like, Conan O'Brien, or you'd hear, like, Steve and E.D. covering Black Hole Sun, and you're, like, what is happening here? But this felt like the inverse of, like, something very cool and authentic. So I love that one. Wouldn't be weird, right? Yeah. Well, last unplugged question. If you recorded in April, it airs at the beginning of June, and this was right around the time where, y'all, right, we're about to go out onto, like, really interesting runs of shows. You did the European shows with guns and roses, and then you went on that, like, multi-month alternative nation tour with spin doctors and screaming trees. So I was just curious, just being a 90s teenager obsessed with all those bands. What's a snapshot memory from each of those two tours that sort of encapsulate those moments for you? No, I was just gonna say, you seem to remember this stuff better than I do. So there was, if it's spin doctors, the screaming trees thing is, you know, that just makes me think about Mark Lannigan, you know, and, you know, what a good soul. Man, what a vocal force, yeah, and yeah, a good soul, like you're saying. What was the other thing? Oh, I was such a weird memory because, you know, I was never into guns and roses, but I guess if you asked to just get to get played that gig, you'd take it, you know, so there was a lot of sort of shenanigans with Axel's helicopter and this and the other thing. But my favorite memory from one of those shows, it was somewhere in England, all the G&R fans of whatever were, there was a gate and they're all waiting to come into this like soccer field or whatever it is. And they open the gates of all these kids, start running towards the front of the stage. And the crew guys are the sound man or somebody plays this tape that's going, you in the black shirt, stop running and 200 kids in black shirts, I think it was priceless. That's amazing. I think suicidal tendencies was the other band. Oh nice. This is where it is. It's kind of surreal, I mean, I was kind of remember half going, what the fuck am I doing here and the other half going, that's just another day at the office, you know. Right, right, yeah. Wow, what's the view out the window today, yeah. One last question, this one non unplugged related. I want to ask you about this record from 1988, Marlo Thomas and friends, free to be a family. After so many years of wondering, please tell me everything about the song, it's not my fault and how y'all ended up alongside Amy Grant and the fat boys on this charming odd ball of an album, it's so funny, I told somebody that the other day, because they were talking about free to be, anyway, I was like, yeah, we were on this record and I couldn't remember who else was on the record, but we got asked to do it and Marlo Thomas, who was that girl, you know, who I watched growing up as a kid, I'm like, it's that girl, it was just already kind of a funny joke, I'll do a sum for that girl. It was the first time we worked with George Tricullius, yeah, absolutely, just great. I called him recently to see if he was interested in producing anything, it was kind of funny, but anyways, so they put us in a studio and they gave us this song that it's like kids music, so I didn't know how to interpret it. So it's kind of that thing where, you know, I was just talking about Prince Covered one of my songs and I listened to his interpretation and my interpretation of Summer of Drugs is different than Victoria's and this and the other thing, but I didn't really, I didn't, I had no understanding of what this project was supposed to be about, and I started singing the verses like the fresh kid from Bel Air or whatever it's like, "We'll smet the air." George is just like, "Now I want to try something else," and then I just kind of sang it in my own voice and he was like, "Okay, that's better," but I kind of had the music both figured out, I wanted to make it, I can't even remember how it sounds, but more whatever. And yeah, it was just one of those things where you just record something and you give it to somebody and they put it on a record and you never hear about it again or some dude name will ask you about it 35 years later, but it was a good experience, it was great. I love this and you know, that girl has always been cool with me and it's a great cause. I love kids, you know, all good. Yeah, I think it's one of the most interesting, you know, entries in the solo silent catalog and when you just read down, cause the other half of the album, it's only like half musicians, the other half is all like comedians and entertainers and the muppets and people like that. So it's a. Revisit that record. Yeah, yeah, I'll send you the files, it's no problem, it's easy just as an MP3, but it's great. Yeah, I actually interviewed George, I guess maybe two or three years ago now I was doing a piece on the Barbie soundtrack that he worked on. So I got to talk to him about the Barbie soundtrack. I was like, after all these years, I get to talk to George, Draculius and it's about, you know, none of the, none of the deaf jam stuff, not Black Rose, but Barbie. That's funny. I didn't know he was involved in the Barbie project. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah, he's a music supervisor, right? Yeah. Good gig. Good gig, yeah. I have to be a music supervisor for one movie. That was with Kevin Smith, right? Yeah. Really fun. Yeah. When the music goes to this, then you got to call the publisher and they go, no, are they go, you can use it for a million dollars or they go, yeah, sure, if I can give us 10 grand, yeah. I don't know. It's just weird, but it's really fun. Yeah, yeah. So you're still in the market, if there's anyone out there listening, then he's a music supervisor. Absolutely. If Dave can ever get a day off the road, awesome. Well, Dave, again, I appreciate you so much for coming on the show and for entertaining all of my questions. Thank you for literally decades of awesome songs and I hope it gets a chance to talk again real soon. Thank you. Well, I appreciate time, man. Oh, man, what an absolute dream chat for me. I'm glad, you know, you all could be a part of it. My sincere and immense thanks again today for taking the time to join the show today and for blessing us all with so many fantastically memorable songs and wildly entertaining live performances. Be sure to check out SolarSylums brand new acoustic live album in PLS Unplugged, releasing August 28th. And don't forget to send in your entries for our SolarSylum and Alice in Chains vinyl giveaways. Alright, I think that'll do it for this very special bonus episode of Unplugged Revisited. If you'd like to get in touch to share your own unplugged memories, offer up a correction, ask a question or connect with the show for any other reason. You can send me an email, unplugged [email protected], leave a voicemail by calling 234 Revisit, which is 234-738-4748 or reach out on social media. As always, please take a moment to follow the pod on your platform of choice so that it'll automatically pop into your feed when it goes live next season. Or at least until I'll pop back in with another bonus episode or special announcement. Until then, my friends, be kind to yourself and look out for each other. Unplugged Revisited is a son of a book production. The show is written and hosted by me, Will Hodge. The show is edited by Amanda Hodge and myself. Podcast artwork is by Jordan Hollum and you can find more of their incredible work at JordanHollum.design. That's J-O-R-D-A-N-U-L-L-O-M.Design.