Updates from Ember, Natalie, and Stephanie | BONUS | Saskia’s Story

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In season five, episode seven, we introduced you to three other survivors of intimate partner violence. Their stories were strikingly similar to Saskia's. And like Saskia, they've each rebuilt in the aftermath of what happened to them. We wanted to give you some updates on where these survivors are today. So let's start with Ember. Remember, her fiancee, John, was drugging and raping her. He confessed everything to their pastor. The pastor goes, how often has this happened? He goes, this has happened probably once a week, almost the whole time we've been engaged. Still, she planned to stay in the relationship to try to make it work. But then she had a chance encounter with John's therapist. He broke a major rule of his profession by telling her, We've run through a situation. He's not a safe person. He's officially diagnosed as a sociopath. And you should get as far away from him as possible. That was kind of the point where I was like, I can't marry this man. This is the moment where back in episode seven, we pause the story. But we want to tell you what happened next. Even after hearing from John's therapist and ending their relationship, Ember didn't seriously consider going to the police. What mattered to her was ensuring that John didn't hurt other people. And she felt that that was possible without John serving time. I said, I'm not going to press charges. I'm not going to go to the police as long as you continue getting the help you need to heal so you don't do this to other people. And he said, OK, yeah, of course, obviously, I'm going to do that. But before long, Ember heard through mutual friends that John stopped going to therapy and whatever treatment he had received hadn't worked. A friend of ours observed him drugging somebody else, called me and was like, things are not better. This is escalating. And so that's when I went to the police. But reporting this crime was far from straightforward. Retraumatizing, I guess, would be the best word for it. I was still struggling to put the pieces together. I don't remember everything because I did dissociate and there are aspects that I don't recall. As a reminder, not only was John drugging Ember, she was dissociating during his attacks. Her mind went completely dark as a way of protecting itself from harm. Her memories were cloudy at best. So when she went to the cops, they dismissed her. They're like, we can't really use your testimony. Like, we need this happened at this time and where it happened. On top of that, Ember didn't have the physical evidence necessary to file charges. I didn't have a SANE exam done right after the attack. I didn't have a drug panel done to prove that there was anything in my system. I just had his words to a pastor in a room that that had taken place. They're like, the best we can do is a temporary order of restraint. And even then, once that's up, you kind of have to reapply for it. In order to reapply for it, you have to prove that he's trying to control you. You have to prove that he's trying to control you. You have to prove that he's trying to contact you and you can't just have this indefinitely. And it was just really disheartening of like, I have no legal ability to protect myself. I had to wait for him to hurt someone else or hurt me in order to prove that he is a dangerous person. Ember's case was at a standstill. That is the most heartbreaking part of our legal system as it stands. You have real victims being courageous enough to come forward and then nothing can be done. And you're like, well, then what's even the point of being courageous? John was never brought to justice, but that didn't stop Ember from moving forward with her life. Today, it's been 20 years since she was raped. And when I hit that 20 year anniversary, it was very like, whew, I'm where I wanted to be. She did finally get married to a man she trusts. They have two sons. John and Ember have been married for two years. And she has a great career. I've been working with survivors kind of as a direct result of what I've been through. She supports victims of sex trafficking and sexual exploitation, especially in creating longer term safety plans. The statistics tell us that 80% of survivors of either trafficking or exploitation will be re-victimized within a year if they don't have restorative help alongside them. So that isn't just like rescue and hope for the best or recover and hope for the best. You really do have to walk alongside them and really giving them the tools they need to identify safe and unsafe people to understand trauma and how that affects us day in and day out. Assisting other survivors has helped Ember on her own journey. I've been able to bear witness to so many other amazing stories that have been healing for me and helpful for me too. She encourages other survivors to reach out to trained professionals for this kind of help. No one has to hold this pain alone. The instinct is to hide, is to run away from anyone who can observe that pain. And in reality, you need to lean in and you need to show what is happening. You need to reveal and drag it into the light so it doesn't keep thriving in the darkness. Next, we want to share the rest of Natalie's story. She was pregnant when she found graphic sexual material created and posted by her husband, Steven. You can see his hands, his wedding ring. And then I realized that I am in these images. It's been over 12 years since that moment. For a long time, after she moved out and got a divorce, she mostly kept what she discovered to herself. The shame was really unbearable. Like, who am I going to tell this to? On top of the shame, she felt like she had to keep quiet for the sake of her kids. Steven's voice was still in her head. He was their dad. I didn't want my kids to grow up in a divorced or like a single family home. I was ashamed of that too. And it was like the stigma of everything. And I look back now and I think it's not silly, but you know, that was my mindset at the time. So for many years, Steven's secret was hurtful. But it was her secret. They continued to co-parent, trading off time with their kids, But Stephen would often push the boundaries they'd agreed on. He would ask me, I know you're not working today and you have the kids, but I'd like to see them. Can we do something together? And I would still agree to it. Sometimes he would even come to my house and just knock on the door and just say, come in my house. And I just wanted to see the kids. I'm like, you can't just do that. My son would be like, oh, hey, dad. Hey, mom. Can dad come in or can dad eat with us? And I'm like, OK. I would always give in. I thought it was really better for the kids. It took her a while to see she needed to prioritize herself. That was how to be the best mom she could be. He shouldn't be this comfortable. I don't have to let him do that. Eventually, I'm like, no, enough. You're not going to do this anymore. If you've ever tried to find a psychiatrist who takes your insurance, you know how frustrating it can be. Long wait lists, no availability, or finding out they don't accept your insurance at all. That's why I'm excited to tell you about Talkiatry. Talkiatry is a 100% online psychiatry practice. It provides comprehensive evaluations, diagnoses, and ongoing medication management for conditions like ADHD, anxiety, depression, and more. Unlike therapy-only platforms, Talkiatry connects you with licensed medical providers who can diagnose mental health conditions and prescribe medication when it's appropriate. Their 800-plus clinicians are in-network with major insurers, and getting started is simple. Just complete a short online assessment, get matched with a clinician who fits your needs, and you can schedule your first appointment in days, not months. Plus, you'll continue seeing the same provider, so your treatment can grow with you over time. Head to talkiatry.com slash betrayal to complete this short assessment and get matched with an in-network psychiatrist in just a few minutes. That's T-A-L-K-I-A-T-R-Y dot com slash betrayal to get matched in minutes. Talkiatry.com slash betrayal. I'm Melissa Jeltsin, and in my new podcast, What Happened to Her, I'm bringing you new stories and conversations every week. Stories about women whose deaths were too quickly ruled a suicide. She was starting to get worried and get scared for her safety. Stories of survival. The only difference between me and her, frankly, was a little bit of luck, because by all rights, I should be dead. Cases that everyone else has experienced. They can't convict her, right? Like, she has so much evidence. These stories all start in the same place, with a woman failed by a system that didn't believe her, that didn't protect her, that didn't see her. No child should ever experience that. And we were babies. She did all of these brave things and came out and spoke about it, and he got a year. You never know who that devil is because he's wearing a disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform. Listen to What Happened to Her on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Lisa, we should tell them about our new show. Oh my God, Lexi, we have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Iwano. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisi DiGiulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. I'm not going to get any. You and your fighting. That is wild. I learned that about you today. Now in my 30s, being the founder of New Shoes, good taste is my business, and I've always got something to say. If men were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. We're going to talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser. We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating you are. Obviously, I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight. But there's only so much fight I can fight. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Liar. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't really care. Over time, Natalie started setting firmer boundaries, gaining confidence. And slowly, she began opening up to people about what her ex-husband Steven did. One of those people? Was her best friend, who was also her ex-sister-in-law. If you'll recall, Steven was Natalie's best friend's brother. Back when Steven and Natalie separated, Natalie protected her friend from the truth. I didn't want her to know. I didn't want that to change her relationship with her brother. But years later, I ended up telling her. Sadly, her friend came to Steven's defense. She didn't want to believe that I was drugged or that he was doing anything like that, that I was probably misunderstanding. She chose really victim-blaming. That's another just big blow to me. But there were people who were there for her and who continue to be there for Natalie to this day, like her sisters, her friends, and her therapist. Talking about it and sharing my secret and letting this go, and not caring so much of it, really helped. With the support she's received, she's learned how to trust other people again. She's even had romantic relationships, including a fiancé who believed her without hesitation or judgment. He's been continuously supportive of my process and has helped me feel safe in my trauma. She's also now in a place where after 12 years, she's considering reporting Steven to the police. Even after all this time, she's held onto all the evidence of what he did. I have my son's tablet, I have memory cards, and I have old cell phones that I just have saved that I have not gone back and looked at. And I feel like I'm ready to. Recently, she contacted her local rape crisis center to talk through her options legally. Just having someone who understands my slow process and can give me legal advice on what I could do about that is helpful. It's been hard for me to accept, like, I don't have to put everybody first all the time. What I feel matters, my struggles matter, and what I'm going through matters, so I have to stop protecting him and follow through with what I've been wanting to do for years. None of this feels easy, and Natalie still has a lot of hard days. But that secret, Steven's secret, doesn't weigh on her. I remember thinking about it like this huge elephant that I was trying to hide behind me, like, by standing in front of it. That's how I felt on the inside. Now, it's like the elephant is just further and further and further away from me. Lastly, I want to give an update on Stephanie. She found something terrifying on her husband's computer. He had a Flickr account that was on his phone. It was filled with nude photos of me. Hundreds of pictures. We first met her in 2023, when Betrayal Weekly was just an idea. Her story became the show's first two episodes. Back then, she talked about how her discovery affected her relationship with her body. When I was married, I had longish hair, and I wore very feminine clothes. And in the days following finding out, I cut off all my hair, and I wore very plain, baggy, nondescript clothing. Today, a lot has changed. In the few years since we met her, Stephanie's gained a better sense of why she needed to alter her appearance. I saw so many of the images, the photos that he took, and so my truthfulness, trauma was very rooted in the sight of my face and my body. And so in those couple of years after I discovered what he was doing, the sight of my own face and my own body was very triggering for me. It was very difficult to even change my clothes or take a shower by not taking care of myself, cutting my hair short, and by wearing the baggy clothing I could keep myself safe from seeing myself. And since the podcast, and as I have continued with therapy and yoga, I have been able to reclaim myself again. I'm growing my hair out again. I actually make a little effort with my clothing. And when I catch a glimpse of myself in the mirror, it's like, oh, that's actually me. I look like me again. She's dedicated herself to being an advocate, telling her story in the hopes that new victims will feel less alone. I strongly believe that this is happening to lots of other women out there, and they just don't know it yet. And as these women start to. to discover what's being done to them, I want them to have a softer landing than I had, to have some resources so they don't feel like they are screaming into the void, saying, am I the only person in the world that this ever happened to? She also wants those people to know that there is life to live after a crime like this. For a long time, I thought the dirtiest, most foul word in the human language was hope. Fuck hope. There was no hope. And now, yeah, I can be hopeful. For resources on sexual violence, visit RAINN.org slash betrayal. That's R-A-I-N-N dot org slash betrayal. You can also find me on Twitter at R-A-I-N-N dot org slash betrayal. You can also get free, confidential 24-7 support through RAINN's National Sexual Assault Hotline. Just text HOPE to 64673 or call 1-800-656-HOPE. You are not alone. If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team or want to tell us your story, email us at betrayalpod at gmail.com. That is betrayalpod at gmail.com. Or follow us on Instagram at BetrayalPod. To access additional content and to connect with the Betrayal community, join our Substack at betrayal.substack.com. We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. Don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five-star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcast. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison. Hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning. Written and produced by Caitlin Golden with additional production by Olivia Hewitt. Our supervising producer is Carrie Hartman. Our story editor is Monique Laborde. Also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our associate producer is Leah Jablow. Production management by Kristen Melchiorri. Additional support by Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ben Fetterman. Our team is Allie Perry and Jessica Kreincheck. Audio editing by Tanner Robbins with additional editing and mixing by Matt Dalvecchio. Special thanks to Saskia, her friends and family. And special thanks to Will Pearson and Carrie Lieberman. Betrayal's theme is composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by MIB Music. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you next time. iHeartRadio.com by selecting work mode. Available on Plus and Pro plans. Gain confidence. Choose healthy habits this fall. This episode is brought to you by Bobcat. They started the compact equipment industry through grit, determination, and a whole lot of think we can't do that? Watch us. They set standards, broke records, empowered people to build bigger and higher, to dig deeper, to make the impossible possible. We've all been there, with doubters telling us what we can't do, who cares what they think. 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