Unveiling the Meaning Behind the Creation Story: A conversation with Jared Lambert

Hi, I'm Larkin Swain, welcome to Sanctuary, an ongoing conversation for seekers like me who want to dive deep into the meaning and power of the temple. These are expansive, transparent, and sometimes challenging conversations with thoughtful and wise people about the history, the symbols, the rituals, and the experiences that make up temple worship. I have a lot of questions. Maybe you do too. Welcome to the journey. Hi, everyone. This is Larkin from Sanctuary. I'm super excited to be sharing this conversation with you that I had with Jared Lambert. Jared is such a fascinating person. Let me tell you a little bit about him. He is a historical linguist, specializing in the ancient Near East and the Hebrew Bible. He's a former military linguist in the United States Army and previously served as the lead linguist over sacred materials for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, working directly with temple-related content. Jared holds multiple degrees across linguistics, history, and religious studies, and is currently completing his PhD in historical linguistics. His work focuses on diacronic language development, temple theology, and the ways translation, symbolism, and later theological frameworks reshaped earlier biblical traditions, particularly surrounding covenant priesthood in the divine feminine. So cool. He teaches courses on biblical language and symbolism, and creates content aimed at helping modern readers approach scripture with greater historical and linguistic clarity. For this episode, we sat down and I got to hear Jared's presentation on the creation story, which was so, so interesting, and feels perfectly timed as we're just beginning the Old Testament in Come Follow Me, which opens with this account. Through linguistic lens, Jared explores the ancient texts, etymological roots, revealing deeper meanings that resonate with both scientific and spiritual perspectives. He shares powerful insights into Adam and Eve, the nature of God as understood by ancient Israelites, and how that very closely resembles the God worshipped by Latter-day Saints today. Most impactful to me was his reinterpretation of Eve and the essential role she played in humanity's story. This conversation was so interesting and left me eager to learn more. We only scratched the surface of Jared's work, and those interested can explore his classes where he guides students on a linguistic journey through the scriptures. You can find a sign-up link in the show notes if you're interested, and without further ado, here is the episode. I hope you enjoy it. Jared, welcome to sanctuary. Thanks so much for coming down here and taking the time to have this conversation. Super stoked for it. I know you have a lot prepared, and I'm really, really excited to dive in. But before we do, let's just start with having you share your background, how you came to this point of being a historical linguist. Anything you want to share at that brought you to this point to give people some context for where you're coming from. Okay, yeah, so yeah, thank you for having me. This is really fun. So who am I? I am. I'm a historical linguist. What does that mean? I study diachronic linguistics, which is the study of, kind of, you look at the oldest rendition or the etymological roots of a word, and then you trace that single word throughout history in order to better find the meaning and understand the morphology of that word over time. And you kind of trace that throughout time. So how did I come to do that? I honestly, I don't think anyone wakes up and is like, I want to be a historical linguist like nobody knows what that is. I fell into it and I really did. I grew up in the church here in Salt Lake City, Utah, ran off to Africa. I served my mission on the islands of west, the islands of Cape Verde, which is west Africa. There's a new small islands off the coast of West Africa. Absolutely loved it there. The most incredible people in the world are there. Love my experiences there and fell in love with language because there are a lot of different languages on those islands. A lot of proto-languages and creoles. So I fell in love with language and loved my mission so much. I stayed there. I bought a house on the island of Fogo and I would live and work going in between college studies and working in humanitarian aid. And then learned a lot of different languages and loved studying linguistics. And then I was recruited in the United States Army. So served as a military linguist there. It was really interesting because then I just met a lot of different amazing people, all different branches, who had a lot of different perspectives on faith and understanding of a gospel. And it became very clear to me with my linguistic understanding that we're all speaking the same language. We're just not understanding what that language is. So it was a linguistic problem that I noticed. And it also gave me a lot more questions as to how to define that in the gospel. So I left the military with this goal, which is I'm going to study until I have answered my questions for what the gospel is and how to best linguistically lay that out for everyone. So that is a horrible idea. Most people go to college because they're like, I want to have this job. I didn't do that. I went to school being like, I need to answer all these questions I have about the gospel. So hence I have been going to school for 20 years. I'm still a student. I have seven degrees to speak eight languages. And I don't think I'm ever going to be able to stop going to school. I have way too much debt if I stop. I'm in trouble. So I will just go forever is the new plan. When I was working in my PhD, I was very focused on temple iconography of ancient texts and like the temple evolution really focusing on the age of the first temple transitioning to the age of the second temple. I was studying that I wrote a long paper on that and I sent that to a few people and they forwarded on to the church, which got my name into the church's system somehow. And so I got a random call one day and they offered me a job as the linguist over sacred materials, the department of the church and I would help implement the linguistic changes you're seeing in the temple today and the ones that are coming. And, and then I left and it was awesome. I love that experience. It was super cool. I enjoyed that and love everybody there. And then I left there and I am now finishing my PhD in historical linguistics, just the study of dichronically linguistics on the scripture text, right, ancient, ancient scripture. And yeah, so that's me in a nutshell. That's that's what I do. And my main goal here is I try to show everybody if you study the linguistics of the Bible, you get a completely different narrative of the Bible because people don't get it like the Bible is this traditional kind of group understanding of what has been interpreted as the gospel. And that has been influenced for geopolitical reasons that had been influenced for just, you know, it's political reasons it's it's a million different issues that we've seen projected onto this text that gives us the narrative that we have today. And so what I like to do for people is I like to take them through the scriptures and I like to show them just how different the linguistics are from that traditional narrative that you've seen because it really opens up a whole new world for you. And I would say what has been the most helpful in my study of the scriptures is like looking at words and Hebrew specifically when I get stuck on something and I push up against something and it has opened up a whole new world for me and has deep in my testimony so much and help I feel like it's helped me to almost experience the message more instead of staying more in the cerebral space. Deeper, I have not that I've done much, but that I've delved into the etymology and some of these ancient, somatic languages, I feel like I'm starting to encounter more the experience of the message if that makes sense as it's expanded my understanding of it. That's great and I love to point out everybody that you don't need to be a linguist, you don't need to go study, you don't need to go get the degrees I have or take on the debt that I have to be able to figure that out. There are so many resources that you can, like you said, you can go to Bible Hub, you can go and dive into the Hebrew there and there's been a lot of studies of that done so that it makes it accessible to anyone to be able to do that. Now, there is a caveat that I love to point out to everybody that you can't rely on that scholarship because the issue we have with the Bible is that the Bible itself, especially the Old Testament, is written in, it's not Hebrew. I mean, that's the problem we have, Hebrew that we understand today versus the Hebrew that it was written in back then is a completely different language. And realistically, if you wanted to actually understand that, the best you would study more like Aramaic today is it's more associated to that ancient proto-Hebrew that it was written in. And that proto-Hebrew, and the reason I emphasize that is because, and what I think you're honing in on, which is awesome that you're doing that, is that proto-Hebrew is what we call in linguistics a soft language versus our English language, which is a hard language. And what that means is hard languages are these kind of one-to-one ratio rigid languages and meaning. So I say dog, it always means dog, it's not going to mean anything else. But see, these proto-languages are conceptual and soft in the fact that they have so many different meanings like when you go to your Hebrew Bible and you look up this one word, you'll see their seven or eight different definitions for that one word. And you have to ask yourself, okay, which definition applies? Because they're not always close to each other. But what you don't realize is those different definitions create a concept together. And that is how you're supposed to read your scriptures. It's in this concept of what it is. So it's much more fluid. We hate it as English figures because we want that rigidity. We want to feel that it's grounded in this one definition, but you have to break out of that if you want to understand the language of God because it's these soft languages that these concepts that are conveying the message, not in this rigidity of our modern understanding. And I feel like that fluidity again draws us into the experience of the message and embodied experience, which I feel I want so much more for us. We're really good at this cerebral and like you're saying we feel really comfortable in this rigidity and this singular understanding. But I just feel this continuous invitation to drop deeper into the experience of God and and the message that's being conveyed to us because I feel like that's where the real transformation happens. Cool. That's awesome. Thank you for sharing. I know that you've prepared so much on specifically the creation story in the first is it the first three chapters of Genesis that we're going to be exploring, which is super relevant to the temple experience as that's shared in the endowment ceremony. So yeah, I'm excited to look at this with some fresh new eyes and extract some new greater understanding from it. That's great. Yeah, no, I have a lot. So what I've done actually is I've developed like 27 28 lessons depending on how long they take, but that kind of help people understand the temple better, right. And it is surrounded around the temple. And what I do is I take people from the very beginning, I go through Genesis and I walk them through the temple experiment of the old experience of the old testament. And then I bring them to the temple experience of the New Testament. I bring them through our modern temples and the evolution that that is in there to kind of show how this message of the temple has evolved over time. And how God uses different narratives of the time, he really showcases different narratives that people understand, right. We know this is doctrine of governance 124. He speaks to us according to our understanding. And so the way he showcases that is the temple narrative changes from dispensation to dispensation. And changes kind of venue or narrative, but the message is always the same. And it's those similarities that help us understand it the best. You know, that of an even narrative is not unique to the hebraic nation. There are many. I mean, frankly, it the creation narrative of the time that we have that predates the hebraic interpretation, like the Gilgamesh epic or the Numa Elish, they tell the same story of this in a garden is where everything begins and here's Adam and here's Eve or here these two first humans and the gods are here discussing over it. God just took that narrative that everybody understood at the time and then he applied his own message to it that meant to teach us very specific lessons. And this is what God does. We see that same pattern that we have in our modern times him doing the same thing and you see the evolution of the temple and in our modern times and and you see how it evolved in that same way God uses narratives of the time and he and then he applies his message to it. And I know this is not what we're talking about, but I like talking about it. So I'm just going to diverge for a second where, you know, when Joseph's trying to put in his his revelation of the endowment into the temple, we see it evolve in different stages, right, his first stage of the Jackson plan was that he was going to have these 24 different buildings that would teach you all the different elements of the temple, because there is this polisemic level to it, which means polymany. Semic meanings, there's many meanings that you find in this text and you find in this narrative that it's hard to express that it's hard to get that out there. So Joseph had in Jackson the plan for 24 temples when we got to Kirtland, he abandoned the 24 temples, they couldn't build one temple on 24. So he abandoned that plan in Kirtland, he noticed he just has pews and then the main place and so he wasn't planning on acting anything out, he wasn't planning on having different levels in in Kirtland, he was really hoping everyone would just share in his revelation, he was hoping we'd all receive that witness. And if you notice today, we're still told that we're still told that you receive this by revelation, this is how it's supposed to be received, we go through the temple and we go through that experience to try to get us prepared to receive that revelation. But the end goal is always the same, he Joseph wants you to have the vision of the endowment that he had, because otherwise it's ineffable otherwise you can't get every aspect of it. But then when you get to Navu, Joseph takes a new tactic and in this tactic, he he borrows the ritual drama of free masonry and he uses that is the vehicle to teach it this form of lipene. We're going to act this out, we're going to go through this narrative and we're going to, so it's not that he steals the content of the free mason, they don't talk about any of the meaning behind what we talk about is nothing like that. But he uses, he speaks to us according to our understanding, so he uses a narrative at the time that everybody understands this ritual drama that is in free masonry at the time. And then he hijacks that, he takes that and teaches these incredible truths in it. This is really where our narrative starts. And he noticed they do the same thing in the beginning in the Hebrew text. They steal this Anuma-Elish doctrine, this notion of how the world began, and they hijack that, they don't teach it the same way. God's not evil, he's not trying to get you like they talk, you know, the mean God's punishing their children, they switch that narrative up and they make it now about a loving God and the God's the Elohim, which is the God's right, who are trying to help their children. And then this is how this narrative builds out, right, which is so interesting. So fascinating. So this larping that you speak of. So how much of this creation story, this Adam and Eve in the garden, is literal versus a vehicle to convey the message? Because I think that a lot of us, I think the narrative is that we perceive this story as very literal. I think that's partly what makes it so confusing. But is it just the same situation as what Joseph did with the free masonry rituals? There was this great vehicle made available to him that the people could understand through, and so that vehicle became what God used to convey a much deeper message that you can only understand through revelation. So what's happening with the creation story? That's what happens. Now, the problem is you're getting very fair, cynical on me because you're like, where's the line? I don't know. If you could answer that cheese, you would be very, very wealthy because the whole world would like to know that we can, we can decipher quite a bit linguistically. I can show the parallels between the new and election, the Gilgamesh epic that show it and it is marginal, right? You only have this much now. All this is new content. We can do it that way. But in reality, I think that's the whole point. I use this word a lot, and you're going to hear it a lot. It's this word, polysamy, which is many meanings, and it's a very fluid concept, right? This conceptuality of God's language is polysmic. There's all these different meanings in that because you have to very fluidly take that, right? And you have to approach that in a very fluid narrative of, OK, I generally understand what the script is saying to me. Now, as you keep going, as you learn more and more about this gospel, slowly that conceptual language gets such incredible depth and it does become clear. You know, when we talk about these soft languages as being conceptual, it makes you think that it's fuzzy, that it's inefficient. It's not true. They were able to do everything that we were able to do, that we're able to do today. They're able to barter. They're able to get down to specifics. It just requires a little bit more to be able to define those things. So as you read the scriptures, as you come to know the gospel or Jesus Christ more, that message becomes clearer and clearer. The problem is your clarity, my clarity, you're always going to differ because my understanding you're going to understand you're always going to differ. There's always going to be date. Your interpretation is going to be different. My interpretation, who's right? Well, frankly, we're all wrong until we could get that pure revelation, until we get that pure knowledge. So if we go straight into the Genesis narrative, right, we can see this very different. Like we have this traditional interpretation that's been passed down to us, right? And that traditional interpretation is awful. It has all these different influences on it. But most of all, it's telling us that women are dumb. Eve is bad, right? She made a mistake. She screwed up. And that Adam is incredible. And so right off the bat, if you believe in a drug, just God, and you believe in a God who's, you know, there's something wrong here. You can go, geez, just from a perspective of a woman, this doesn't feel right. And that's good because it's there. But more so, I believe in a God, I believe, I'm a concordist. And what a concordist is is somebody that believes that when God gives revelation, he gives it with absolute truth. He is revealing pure knowledge to his prophets. And the problem we have is that the prophets are being accommodated because we, as Latter-day Saints, also believe in free agency. So we believe that this life is a test. We believe that you've come to this earth and you are going to be tested not ABCD, Scantron test, but rather pushed to your limit and tested and tried in your faith, meaning you're going through the fire, right? And so we believe that's the purpose of this life. And if God's greatest gift is this agency, he has to let us use that agency, right? And that results in a lot of big issues that we have, right? So when he reveals revelations of the prophet, it is pure knowledge, pure understanding, absolute truth. The problem is the prophet receives that knowledge according to his understanding at the time. And so what I like to show in the scriptures, like right from the beginning, is that we have a narrative that lines up very, very nicely with our understanding today. But you can also see how they're not understanding it back then. So for example, the traditional narrative we hear is that God created the earth, ex nihilo, out of nothing. And it's this magical god theory, right? Where God is snapping his fingers and now there's the world. And then here's man be made, but that's not what the linguistics tell us, right? And this is one one in the beginning, God created the heaven and earth, okay? So that does sound like a magical god. He just created it from the beginning, right? But that's not what the linguistics say. The word here for beginning is better sheet, better sheet, which is, it's, it does mean the beginning, but it's not indicating in any way that this is the beginning of all things. Or like, this is the beginning of our narrative or once upon a time, or, you know, this is the word used to be able to set up the story. It is letting us know the beginning of this narrative, God created. Well, Jared, it says created. So that means God made it. So ex nihilo seems pretty corroborated here. But what is this word for created? Well, it's barra. God does not mean created snap my finger and now it's made. It is to form to put together, right? So if you're putting something together, what does that indicate that indicates there is stuff there, right? And right from the get go, we see Joseph when he gives us our version of this in the perlegate price. We see this notion of matter unorganized and corroborates so perfectly with this that there is already things in existence that then come together. But then we also have this interesting notion of God at the beginning of this, because what is God? Well, the trinitarian perspective of God is that God is this one God. It's this kind of male blob God. And the problem with that is the word for God here is Elohim. So Elohim everybody understands is the name of God. Well, what does Elohim really mean? So what I love is Joseph hires a Hebrew. Josiah's sexist to come and teach him Hebrew and right from the get go they start in Genesis one and Joseph stops him right at the beginning says, so the word there is not God the word there is God's it's plural. That's why it's Elohim and he's right. It is plural. And Josiah sex is now I'm sorry you're incorrect sure it's plural but it's kind of a royal we like God is so royal. He's so amazing. He's speaking to himself in the third person and this was the reply and Joseph said, you know, I think you're wrong there. And it's because Joseph is doing the translation of the book of Abraham and it makes it very clear the gods went down and said here is matter organized. We will form together a world right. And so he's already on to this clue and Joseph's exactly right because if first of all the concept of a Trinitarian God doesn't exist in Hebrew like they had no concept of it that was invented at the Medical Councils so they're not writing about a Trinitarian God right this tree concept doesn't exist what are they talking about what is this Elohim that they're referring to. Well Elohim is interesting because etymologically speaking the more themes of the word Elohim themselves indicate that it's referencing more than one God because it's comprised of different elements because if you wanted to make L the mail God plural you wouldn't say Elohim. So why even if you're trying to indicate the royal we of God as as Josiah sexist said why did you say it that way why did you say Elohim that makes no sense. Well the Elohim is a much older tradition in the hebraic faith it is this council right we see this laid out again and again in the scriptures. Psalms talks about the Elohim the council where God resides amongst the gods and and again I love to point out to people is when they reference God there it's still in the plural separated from the lower gods. So this old hebraic belief system is very similar to us in the fact that we are not monotheistic we are we believe in a monologist system what we what we believe in Latter-day Saints is there's a heavenly father and a heavenly mother and then below them are their divine children and that's us what's so cool about that is in the age of the first temple in the temple of Solomon the first one that was built. So we have the notion of a mother a father and their children or these lower deities and this is what they worship as God this is the word Elohim and so they worship the whole relational unity of that as God now why is that so cool as Latter-day Saints how do we become where the God makers right so how do you become God in the Latter-day Saint-Payth well you go you find a spouse you go and are sealed together and now you can become God. It is the union of the masculine and the feminine these two opposing traits that make you whole to be able to be God right there is no God and then never will be except they be made of these two component parts male and female united this is what Joseph taught right. So this is our notion of God and what I love about that is the etymological roots of that word the more themes of that word is L the male God now what is this oh what does that come from that's not the plural for it and then there's the illum at the end which is the council so we're missing what is this oh factor well it's L the male God a lot the female God and the illum their children and this is the word for God in the Hebrew understanding at the time you know what's so funny is they become monotheistic and they ultimately ditch this concept of multiple gods the way we understand it as Latter-day Saints and they now believe in just one God where they merged the two male gods together Yahweh and Ellen to one God and and then they completely erased the mother from their text even though she exists throughout it but I love this so much is this notion that this word Elohim is this we call it a polimpsis it's this archaic notion of a previous tradition it's kind of like you know we always there's so many different ways we do this I used the example last time of of you know we say hang up the phone but none of us you know we all have cell phones we don't hang up you don't physically hang it up we just say that because the old tradition was you literally take this old rotary phone and you put it on top of the receiver and that's how you hang it up that's who you ended so that that's a polimpsis it's a fossil of a previous time where you believe something different where you did something different that's what the word Elohim is it's a previous dinosaur fossilized form of God they always said God that way but it's the combination of the male and the female together as one with their children so right from the get go this narrative changes drastically it is not the singular male God he is not forming it out of nothing he is creating it from the substances that exist at the time and then we can keep going down the text because it keeps going but we just don't have the time to go through everything but we could go word for word here and we'd have a difference verse two and the earth was without form right again it's not saying there's nothing there it's saying it doesn't have form yet it's floating and then it comes together slowly and so when I say that I'm a concordist what I love is we know today at least most of us know today that the earth was created through this very natural means right this this process of evolution where there's this big banger or whatever initiated this our sun ignites our sun spews all of being this special mineral into the crust of the earth and then the earth is formed through the gravitational pull and it forms into this earth as we know it today and then we know asteroids hit it and it causes water that's inside of the material that is the earth the rise while also spewing water out so that the earth then gets covered with water and then it slowly rescinds and islands are formed and then these geothermic vents heat up the water to this perfect temperature where those that all of being is then heated up to a point where a single cell organism is formed in a multi cell and this process of evolution is formed and so what I love showing people in the scriptures is that I believe as a concordist God is revealing that truth to them they just don't have the vocabulary to be able to say it because when you read the text you'll see this lines up point by point it's now there's you know the earth is then formed and then it says that all the creatures of the earth are come out from the waters and and all life is formed in Genesis 20 let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that half life right Joseph does such a better job within Abraham because in Abraham it tells you that Abraham for 20 it says and the gods plural let us prepare the waters to bring forth abundantly the moving creatures not even the gods being like I'm creating the animals in the ocean it is the gods we will prepare the waters and the waters will bring forth the life that is on the earth and so if you just read this linguistically you're like oh yeah that's exactly what we believe but do they have I mean do they have the language when God's revealing this to Abraham does he have the language to be able to say the olivine that was spewed from the right so no he doesn't know these scientific terms he has no idea to say so the best he can do is I saw this image of the earth being formed out of matter and then like God prepared waters and then out of waters came life this is this is concordism right this is how we should be reading our scriptures right science and religion are not at odds for each other that's the same language just from different perspectives from different angles and I love being able to highlight that while I would love to go through all of it because there's so much more there that I love that is corroborated I don't think we have the time so we get down into verse 26 this is where we get our first misunderstanding that that gets everyone in trouble because in verse 26 it says in the God said let us make man in our image after the likeness let them have dominion over the fish of the sea of the cat of the earth blah blah blah blah and then it says in Genesis 127 so God created man male and female created he then so this is so interesting because Adam and Eve aren't created yet that doesn't have until verse 2 chapter 2 so what is God talking about well and this is what I love now there's different narrations happening right Genesis 1 is more of a zoomed out narration of this and we have different theories here but what I love to point out to everybody is this isn't the creation of Adam this is the creation of Ha Adamah now the Hebrew word for Ha Adamah is the multiple Adams and it's not referring just to one individual man clearly it says right here male and female created he then and then we can corroborate this right by looking just a little bit farther because in Genesis 5 to it tells us it reiterates this scripture but it does it better linguistically it emphasizes male and female created he then and blessed them and called their name Adam so again this title is actually for humanity God has created humanity in Genesis 127 male and female and and then he gave them the name of man and and so this isn't the individual Adam that we're talking about so you're probably asking yourself well that doesn't make sense because how are Adam and Eve the first parents of us how are they the first if God created humanity in Genesis 1 well it tells us pretty clearly because if we jump down now we go into Genesis 2 we see Genesis 2 1 tells us here's the here's when the earth is finished and the hosts of them that are on it the seventh day ended and God did all this on the seventh day he rests and the generations of heaven come verse 5 every planet of the field and verse 6 so so cool here went up a mist what is this mist we should all be asking that question but we don't have time to talk about it and the Lord God then in verse 7 right now we're creating Adam and the Lord God formed man this is now individual man singular man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul okay so we need to break this down because here God forms man singular this is Adam now and how does he form him well he he forms some of the dust of the ground of course so this is where like I talk about having a linguistic and a linguistic spidey sense because this is a conceptual language so it's super bizarre to sit here as a conceptual language to say dust of the ground where the Hebrew term for dust and the Hebrew term for ground are conceptually one and the same so why would you reiterate that why would you say the earth of the earth or the dust of the doth or the ground or the ground doesn't make any sense but when you look at the linguistics of this you see it's actually telling you and the Lord God formed Adam of the and the word for ground here is or the word for dust here for dust here is ha dam ah what is ha dam ah well in Genesis 1 it just told us it's humanity and I formed Adam of the humanity of the earth and so how did you do this how did you form Adam of the of the humanity of the earth says and breathe into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul well first of all and breathe the word for breathe here is nismat nismat haim is the term for the breath of life nismat is interesting because nismat is this feminine singular construct where it means yes to breathe but it also is in the Hebrew conceptual terms is this because as you breathe to your nostrils right you take an air and you can feel it it goes to your brain it invigorates you it gives you this this energy right and so it's the it's the term for ah it's this term for invigoration enlightenment right because you feel that in your brain you they connect this term to your intelligence so it is to imbue into his and then the nostril part right the nostrils which is the gateway to your soul right it is it is it's as we take that breath in we take it through our nostrils and it goes straight to our brain it goes straight to our essence of who we are so it was the gateway to your soul but more so it was the great way to your mind you could literally feel it as you breathe in and so he imbued into his nostrils or his brain a breath of life right now this is the interesting part the nismat haim that breath of light the word for here for life and and breath which is associated in every single instance of that term in in the Hebrew Bible and reiterated through Joseph's writings of or translations of the of the hebraic text is that your life is connected to this term of light or enlightenment right you know this is lighter saints is like you you all first existed right you were never created you have always existed first as intelligence or light this concept of light and intelligence being unified is the key in this because when he talks about the the breath this this nismat it's this imbument of light or intelligence so if we were to reread this understanding these these notions it would be in the Lord God formed man of the humanity of the earth and imbued into his mind or his soul or his essence a imbument or breath of light and man became an enlightened soul so what is it telling us Adam is not the first human in the sense that he is the very first person on the earth no he is the first individual on earth to be enlightened or to be under covenant or God to be to be given knowledge of this something more that exists so he is the first enlightened and this isn't the only indication right if you're like what you're a geez you're throwing a lot on these few terms that you've defined there's so much more all throughout the genesis text it talks about the others it talks about Adam you must guard and keep the word for keep there is to guard or maintain away from someone who's this someone he's guarding the garden from right or or where you have a cane right and the curse of Cain it says they're going to banish him and he's going to leave and he runs over to another village and he marries a woman there and they create a family so it's so funny you're like well who are these other people I thought you were like the only family on earth who's this woman that he goes and marries and who's so that all of these others exist at the time Joseph was very aware of this I mean he incorporates into his temple context all the time right he talks about a money system that exists at the time right he talks about oh there's a whole bunch of people who are accepting the doctrine of the devil except for these two right all of this is indicated in the temple and Joseph is very aware of that he talks about it often actually but anyway so as we proceed we see how perfectly this aligns with our own understanding yes there's people proud of Adam yes the evolutionary process existed we see how they come from the waters and they form into everything and then what's so nice about this is seeing how that aligns with even the deeper understanding that we're gaining now scientifically and I love pointing out to everybody just how cool it is that just in 2023 we had these seven different because we have this problem in science where you can trace the evolutionary pattern of humanity from a single cell organism all way up to homo erectus and then at homo erectus it stops and it's because there's this jump between homo erectus and homo sapien and homo sapien is us we have these big brains homo erectus was like a smaller brained hairier version of humans they were still smart they had money systems they had how seen they had they had cool families and cool traditions they just weren't as smart as us or as enlightened as us and what's so interesting is that the latest scientific articles tell us that while evolution cannot account for the jump from homo erectus homo sapiens because we found their bones within like a hundred years of each other which means evolution can account for that takes thousands of years to evolve so this is that missing link that everybody kind of points out that's like that's impossible like god created them just what I love is that nil de grass Tyson along with these seven other scholars have emphasized that there was a solar wind a solar flare if you will that that broke through our atmosphere and this this photon hit directly into our homo erectus ancestors and this beam of light mutated their DNA to the point where they their children grew much larger brains and they were less hairy and they looked just like us so I love taking this from this concordist perspective where you take it from all these different angles where you go okay I see it from a very religious perspective that god is enlighten with the gospel but I also see it from a scientific perspective where we see that it was a beam of light that broke through our atmosphere that then mutated the cells of homo erectus that then made homo sapiens and so what is Abraham scene is he seen the placemic message of the scientific is he seen the the gospel version what is it or is he seen all of it and he's trying to express everything I love from that cordicordist perspective to think oh yeah no he's smart enough he's seen it all he's trying to do it scientifically he's trying to do it through the gospel he's trying to convey it all so there's so many parallels that and I get it we have this you know there's this term that's apaphenic and our brain loves to make a million different connections that aren't really there and so yes this could be this apaphenic connection but I think the coincidences are just too much I think there's just too much there and I agree that it's not as concrete as we want it to be so it could just be this apaphenic you know tendency that I have to be able to see these parallels but I truthfully believe there's something there I think when we die God's going to be like you have no idea let me show you you know it'll be impressive so now we get down into this narrative of Eve right we're now into Genesis 218 and at what I love to point out to people is we have this problem with our modern interpretation of this text we like to believe Adam and Eve were commanded both not to take the fruit Eve is the dumb woman who's like oh I'm going to do it anyway and loose for trickster and she makes the mistake thus woman is cursed to be the worst for the rest of eternity and this is the traditional narrative we taught but is that what is said linguistically no not at all so so what I've done as a linguist is I've found a I've written a paper that's being published at the Journal of Hebraic Studies and it it was nominated for a lingua packs laureate and what it is is it's a linguistic pattern in the Bible that nobody's found before and I have labeled it the apaphemic arc and what it is is I use maserotic a plantation indicators which are all throughout our text this is one of them right here you know it looks like this paragraph symbol but that's actually these indicators for us to know this in in the sing songy way back when this was an oral tradition they would kind of sing these narratives and that is the stopping point right and we don't need to go into all the different linguistic details of it but it's a very important marker here because what it's telling us is when you would go to your old church right so here I am I'm suited back in the ancient Hebrew nation I go it's an oral tradition there's no written scripture right there is this a doke who is like my pastor right he's like a stake president to us today but he would memorize all the scriptures right and we would show up on Saturday and he would sing song this narrative to us and he would build it up in such a way where he goes Adams introduced the garden and he's supposed to partake all this fruit he's supposed to find joy and procreation he's supposed to be able to do all these things that God commanded him and yet he cannot because he does not have the authority to partake of the fruit God has commanded that he cannot do that and then it ends right there that's what that diacritic marker right there means right it means that it stops at that point you would go home that whole week of be like what is he supposed to do like Adam stuck he's in stasis he is in so much trouble like he's doomed this is awful and then when you come back the next week he starts with a solution to that problem the cliffhangers over now let me tell you how it ends and that what's the very next verse and the Lord God said it is not good the word for good here is better understood as sufficient so it is not sufficient that man is as should be alone I will make for him a help me for him no I hate this I hate that term so much help me it's such a bad translation because here you did you translated all at first of all the English translation the Bible is just the worst truly horrible but here it is you you've done a good job mostly I translated this text in what we call in linguistics a dynamic equivalence right you're trying to convey what each word really means okay so you're picking this perfect word that conveys it all and then all of a sudden you get to this the introduction of Eve but not her name Eve she's never introduced as Eve she's introduced as a Zer Kanendu and you chose the most debased like simplified version of what that means and I guarantee it was pure sexism I guarantee it because that's not what a Zer Kanendu means yes a Zer means help that is true but a Zer there are a hundred different words you could use for help you chose you chose to translate this as just plain old simple help a Zer is only used 21 times in the Hebrew Bible that's it there are other words for help that are used thousands of times a Zer is the root of the word Ebenezer here I raise my Ebenezer and it means salvation means the stone of help it means Eve is introduced as Adam's Savior first and foremost a Zer well sorry Eve is Adam's salvation to this problem and I love that it's so sweet sorry I'm choking up as she is introduced as first and foremost Adam's Savior next is this word meat it's super weird because it's actually the word Kanendu which means to stand face to face okay this is important and I need people to follow this okay at the very least we should be able to read Kanendu and say oh it means face to face well that describes equality that describes like facing each other and it does mean that it means like here's this force that's that's unstoppable and immutable and here is the supposing force that can match it and that's what meat means that's what this Kanendu means something that can match it right but here's where it gets even better Kanendu is actually this term this idiomatic phrase that is used every time in scripture to indicate priesthood idiomatic means it's just a it's a what any time like here's an example Moses goes and talks to God and he uses the phrase before he becomes a prophet he uses the phrase and I spoke with God face to face right God calls the Levites to go preach for him and what does he do you must come and speak to me face to face before you go right all throughout this is just two of probably 50 different examples of this where you where God is indicating standing face to face is indicative of priesthood I mean first we needed to find priesthood what is priesthood we see it as like power right and it is it is power but we have a better definition in the elvious faith which is it is the authority of God to do something different the authority of God to do something that someone else is not authorized to do and look at what is being described in this text Adam you cannot partake of the fruit but now I will make for you Eve your savior who will stand face to face and is your equal in priesthood power and authority she can do this what the linguistics are telling you so what does Eve do she comes down what we see in this narrative is that Lucifer enters the scene right and there's this issue with Lucifer entering the scene because one there is no concept of when this is written down of Lucifer he doesn't exist in the Hebrew nation like they don't know a Lucifer that's not a concept are they actually get this word Satanus right from a from a Persian influence it's a Persian word actually that they use to describe ill will so you can be Satan or you can have someone do Satan to you but it is not an embodiment of evil that they understand as Lucifer this person who is a bad guy so when they talk about the influence of Lucifer in the garden it doesn't mean what we think it means now this gets hairy and it gets kind of tangled up because Latter-day Saints have a problem and I've noticed Latter-day Saints have a real issue with this because Joseph revealed to us right that this is the role of Lucifer Lucifer was there this happened and I don't mean to push back on that in any way what what I want people to understand is that when Lucifer is introduced into the text he's introduced more as a concept than actual Lucifer because it says that he comes in the form of a snake and it says the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made and he said it to the woman yay hath god said ye shall not eat of the tree of every garden so when it says he comes in the form of a snake what is the snake what does what does that mean to them why did you do that like why did you put them in the form of a snake you old Hebrews what what is the purpose of that well the snake in Hebrew culture was the symbol of their Messiah we see this all throughout the text right Moses goes and talks to God God says go talk to the Pharaoh says well how's the fair going to know I came from you give me your staff what does he turn it into say snake a certain bit yeah now you know you're coming from me oh okay Moses is in the desert right everybody's getting sick which when I do God oh I know put the symbol of a snake on a cross lift it up anyone who looks at that will live this is the role of Jesus Christ this is because they saw the serpent is a the most humblest vault in the midrash teaches us the serpent is the most humble vault creatures and that's actually the better interpretation it's not the server was most subtle it's that the server was most humble they would say the serpent has no legs to stand on it's the humblest of all creatures it slithers on its bellies it's the loliest of them all but at the same time here you are in this Near Eastern culture where you're surrounded by deserts and a single snake bite will kill you it is a powerful creature so their interpretation is it is the most humble creature but it is also the most powerful creature so this is the symbol of our Messiah and so this is where this symbol comes from so when it talks about loose for coming in the form of a snake it's not saying like we don't show him in the temple film is like a snake slithering on stage right no no no we're saying he comes in the form of the savior this is why he comes in our temple film out in robes right there used to be this line in the older versions where he would say they would say what is what are these robes that you wear right and you say oh this is the form of my priesthood he's mimicking the savior he's trying to dupe Eve right and so what I think is so so funny about all of this is that we have this issue of Eve being tricked Eve being deceived and thus causing all these problems but what I like to point out to members of the church is that our our text says something different you have your book of Mormon doctrine of covenants and pearl of great price all three of them tell you Eve made this choice in wisdom it was a wise choice of Eve so I also ask how can you be tricked and be wise at the same time it's impossible yeah both cannot be true it is either she is wise or she is tricked so then you have to be like okay Jared so if that's true why does Eve admitted herself in Genesis 3 she says I partook of the or the serpent beguiled me so I partook and so what I love to point out is hey if something feels wrong if something feels off if you read that and you're like you like that it's typically because the spirit's trying to tell you like this isn't right this isn't correct that's a bad notion so that always was the case for me when I hear this admission from Eve I always hated that I was like what is going on here like my religion teaches me she's wise so why here in this text is she saying she was duped geez that bothered me so then I got a bunch of linguistic degrees and here we are and I think I figured out the answer when it says the serpent beguiled me it uses this term it's a very archaic term to use there you could have said a lot of different terms in Hebrew and proto Hebrew to indicate trickery to indicate like fooled but you chose this one term and this term is an accounting term that means when you're doing your accounting you're balancing a checkbook it's like it's you know a tax season in the Hebrew nation what you're doing is you're all the income and all the outcome and you're deciding that final the finality of that where it lands and and what's so funny is traditional interpretations of this text said well clearly this isn't the accounting term version of this word it must mean beguile because that makes so much more sense Lucifer is tricking them and then they alter the text accordingly right both forward and backwards they they alter it so that she really is duped in the text what I think is so funny is it wasn't a mistake it indicates in the text that you says the the serpent beguiled me thus I partook well the word for serpent there is the term nahas the word nahas is a super strange word to use because yes it does mean serpent but it is completely unaltered is the based form of the word serpent which you don't do there are over 1000 different words for snake it's kind of like Eskimos with snow there's so much snow they now have like a thousand words for the word snow well in the Middle East there's so many snakes they have a word for every type of snake like here's the word for the snake with the diamond on its back here's the one with the you know and they go through all the different variations so all through the Bible they use these different terms for snakes very specifically it is not a coincidence that they decided to write the base root word nahas and it's because the term there noon Hatoche scene right that sorry I'm just I just threw some Persian out there is because the root of that indicates the foreshadowed it is it is what the root of the Messiah is so what she's saying is it's not that the serpent beguiled me it's that she says I for saw the Savior and I weighed it I balanced it this is what she said now that is wisdom that is wisdom she weighed the consequence of partaking that fruit right and I love it because president oaks loves to emphasize to us in his talk that he gave once and I can't remember right now but he gave it we can look it up he loves to emphasize that Eve was not committing a sin but rather a transgression now it's very lawyerly of him to be able to define the two here which good for him though because he's spot on linguistically because Eve was not commanded not to just Adam was but there's still consequence right there there's still a if you partake of this fruit whatever the fruit maybe which I think people very incorrectly attribute this to like motherhood right it's not the case it is indicating priesthood it is indicating different aspects of the feminine nature but whatever that may be and I don't think we have time to dive in that today she is yes transgressing something and a consequence is coming and that consequence is this life this celestial state this rough world where you're going to and it makes it clear in Genesis 3 it tells you she understands that there's going to be pain there's going to be suffering you're going to work by the sweat of your brow and only thorns thistles briars and noxious weeds will grow it's going to be horrible but it is the wisdom it's the wisdom of Eve that she weighed that she saw the savior as this text indicates and she knew this is the way this is how we leave stasis this is the pattern that we need to follow to become better this sound growth works and that's the beauty of this narrative now where you ask where does it line up where does where does all of this align how literal or how figurative is the text being in this honestly it doesn't matter because if you look at it conceptually the concept is clear you can only have prog it's the plan of salvation like it's the plan of salvation in this in this notion you can do everything you write in this life right and we talk about how the experience of the temple mimics our life and it is it's supposed to mimic it where we are supposed to see ourselves as Adam men women as Eve and we're supposed to put ourselves in the shoes right in the original version of Joseph you literally play the role of Adam and Eve you would walk up on stage and you would use the lines right as if you were them you are supposed to apply this to your life in a conceptual way so what is that concept well the concept is I mean honestly it's the protocol son you can try to be the son that stays at home you can try to be the one that does everything perfect there's no growth in that you are just there you're stuck in stasis or you leave oh it's going to suck you you're going to live right easily you're going to do stupid things you're going to make mistakes oh and you will suffer you will suffer life and life will hit your heart but only through the atonement of Jesus Christ and only through that experience of pain suffering and agony will you have growth it is the only way this is the plan of salvation summed up right in our temple text and so I love that I love this notion of the true role of Eve as shown in our own scriptures shown in our own text as the savior of not just Adam not just their situation but the savior of all mankind and what I love so so much because I tell everybody the traditional text the problem with that and that narrative is it oversimplifies everything if you would not oversimplify it but instead lay out the text linguistically as it says it is so much more beautiful so much more point especially in the role of Eve because when Eve is introduced she is not introduced as Eve as I showed you she is introduced as a Zer can and do as she's introduced as a Zer can and do she is never referred to as Eve not once in the text until she fulfills her job because we have a concept of new names in our religion it is very unique to us and you think wow these Mormons they are so weird like you are just pulling anything out of the hat what you don't understand is I studyonomastic studies which means I study the roots of proper names proper nouns in the Hebrew Bible and well just in the Bible in general because you can go through the New Testament as well and if you notice there's a pattern in the Bible nobody ever has their real name everyone is given a new name in the Bible Paul becomes you know Saul becomes Paul Simon is Peter right a Zer can and do becomes Eve Joseph tells us that Adam receives a new name after he leaves the garden a new name that he then receives after the fulfillment of the garden and at each point at each juncture of these narratives every narrative where you receive this new name it tells the same story you are known by this and then when you hit this pivotal moment where either you fulfill your role or you think you fail in your role God at that point meets you and gives you a new name in this narrative Eve is introduced a Zer can end you she is brought before Adam and there's this kind of sexist notion where they go and Adam names Eve and I love it I love that our temple text has been updated to emphasize this Adam does not name Eve Adam in this beautiful expression where she is only referred to as the salvation with a priesthood equal unto his own after she partakes the fruit God shows up and says Eve of a life and only then does he emphasize her real name then he turns to Adam and says Adam and the problem with this narrative is it says what will you name her that's not what is being indicated linguistically right this is a rhetorical question God is saying Adam do you know the name of this person next to you now that you have partake in the fruit at that point Adam turns and says I do this is Hava this is Eve why what does this word Hava mean well it is the word for life it is the root word of your heavenly mother life at this point Eve is then given she's not punished she didn't make a mistake as the traditional narrative there's no punishment whatsoever God does not issue one decree of punishment or or malice or negative connotation towards Eve he only says to Eve Hava you are life I love in the temple now it says that is right Adam she is called Hava she is called Eve this is the name of the first of all women who is the first of all women mother Eve mother Eve our mother our heavenly mother she is given the name the title of our heavenly mother I love it so much can I ask just a question do you do you think that Adam is is Eve transforming and becoming something new and therefore her name is Eve or because they took the fruit is Adam able to see her more clearly for who she already was does that make sense which is I know that's tough that's so tough to answer because I want to say yes to both because you're actually pulling from two perspectives there right is Eve from Eve's perspective becoming what she should be yes free agency is always there she had the choice 100% to do whatever she wanted God's not going to mess with that right but she did what's right and she took that bitter cup again mimicking linguistically paralleling the role of the gosh sorry paralleling the role of the Savior thus giving her the title of the Ezair that Ebenezer but then from her perspective of Adam he's so unaware of it the text indicates that he's unaware of this he sees it as bad he's like Eve what are you doing right you're not supposed to do that he doesn't quite get it and it's God who requires Adam to go hey Adam do you get it now do you understand and I feel bad because people pointed out to me again again hey Jared you're kind of you're a bad feminist in the sense that like in the olden days the feminist was a negative term because it was like anti-man right right and they're like you're narrative of this is like anti-Adam and I'm like I'm so sorry it's not it is not it is not anti-Adam the fact of the matter is the linguistic text emphasizes this this point which is Adam didn't see it yet he did not have the eyes to see it when God points that out to Adam then sees I yes I see who this is this is Eve the mother of all living it's so beautiful now that shouldn't be seen as a negative Adam he has so many incredible traits his name himself indicates that he is the earth he is the he is the standard he is the the stationary thing by which all begins right um there's so many positives to his name so I don't see it as this anti-Adam narrative I think I emphasize the feminine because it's the feminine that has been pushed down for all of these years so it's not trying to be anti the masculine in this narrative it's just I think we've we've harped on the masculine enough and lifted that up that I think it's time that we lift up the women where it's supposed to be where it was originally indicated to be um so yeah so that's it that's Genesis 1 through 3 that I that I take you through there's so much more in there um I I love you know we we always have this issue of the creation of you as well where she's made from Adam's rib and I and I want it to so badly be able to show how that's uh completely misinterpreted and I know it is I think we all do as linguists know that it's wrong the problem is we can't show how we don't know it's such a strange idiom to be pulled from his rib it's not the word rib it's side and there's so many different cut like you know that here we go the this apathetic you know realization again again your mind can grab a million different things it'd be like right it's because he's she's equal she's being made just like him and and the one thing that I can show everybody is that in Genesis um in Genesis 3 or sorry Genesis 220 it tells us an Adam gave names to all the cattle and to the foul of the air and to every beast of the field but for Adam there was not found a help meat for him and we read that it's such a strange location for that to be because you're indicating you were searching for a woman again for all everybody thinks they're the first people on the earth they're looking for other eaves like why would you look if there's only Adam um so you're looking for this woman for Adam and you can't find anyone for him so what a bizarre sentence to put in there right before the creation of Eve right but what I love and and again again this would be such a goldmine mind to be able to find a linguistically if this text was wrong like if it could just say like and for Adam there was found Eve it would it would bury so much sexism because people have used this notion that like Eve was made from Adam thus Eve is subject to Adam right and she is lesser than Adam she's made from so he is her master and it's it's caused so much strife for women this one notion but what I love is once again Joseph didn't fail us because when you look at the Abrahamic version that Joseph brought in how does the narrative of Abraham garden narrative end the very last verse should be the most groundbreaking discovery of all time because it says so clearly and Adam gave names to all the cattle to the foul the air to every beast of the field and for Adam there was found a help me for him Joseph changed one word one word in that entire chapter there's only one thing that he modifies in his their rendition of it Adam what or Eve was found for Adam she was not made for Adam or from Adam or under Adam or subject to Adam she was found for Adam she exists completely separate created in the same way as Adam and I love that so so much we should be hard like we need to be preaching this in our rare missionaries we need to have our missionaries like read Abraham 5 instead of the Genesis 2 version so yes if we would just read our scriptures from a more linguistically dynamic perspective instead of relying on the traditional interpretation that we've placed on the text it's so much more beautiful it connects things in such a better way and there's just so much more there I wish we had the time to dive into but maybe another time that was amazing thank you so much I yeah so many thought so many questions I hope we can hear more from you because there's a lot here just just to close out you shared you know you mentioned the power of studying the scriptures from a linguistical perspective and how I can open up understanding and I feel like there's a lot of people in our community who are wrestling with this creation story and with just wanting to understand the temple experience more what have you what have you learned about how to prepare yourself to better understand what's being given here in the story in the temple experience yeah you know I it's tough it is really really tough because if you're unprepared and you just go straight to the temple you're like what is this yeah I'm so confused like this is strange this is a weird experience and there's so there's a couple things at play and I think it's really important that we A understand the history of our modern temple evolution like why why did Joseph use what he did you know I tell I tell everybody this because I love this so much as a linguist it's so great Joseph would often start his his discourses his lectures with a prayer of his own he'd let whoever say a prayer maybe like I'd like to offer another prayer and then he would say oh Lord God please free us of the prison that is our language and let the spirit convey the message that I have prepared for them and I love that because yes English is a prison we are stuck in Joseph's biggest issue with the temple was he had no idea how to express what he experienced in his revelation into words yeah what a horrible feat he is not it's not like God's just whispering the endowment so that he can be like let me write this down word for word is God that's not what's happening this is this polisemic revelation how do you take this visual this emotional the spiritual interpretation and put it into the confines of words yeah or Joseph poor sucker and that's why I love it I love that he's like hey guys I need you all to get this revelation like this is the point and I love that we've maintained that in our temple experience because that's the problem if you're going to walk into the temple without any history behind it it's going to feel weird if you walk into the temple without understanding the real linguistics of the Bible it's going to feel patriarchal it's going to feel I mean I feel bad for all women because it doesn't look great what I love is notice I mean if again notice the changes that are happening in the temple notice it's all about women and it's all about restoring this message that women are equal in every way so I love that now caveat if you're going to the temple first time do not try to learn lessons that aren't there okay the temple's trying to teach very specific lessons and it is not a replacement of scripture it's not trying to do that it's not trying to say like this is the true narrative so anything you read in Genesis or anything you read in Abraham is not true this is that's not what it's trying to do so that's the beauty of our temple experience we're not trying to say hey this is the lesson you have to take from it we have you come there is no instructor you don't have the words of the prophet up there saying this is what the temple means no one is going to say that to you why because it is for you and the Holy Spirit to then say oh my goodness I just learned this I just this aspect is so beautiful this is what I learned right this is the this is the concept of the temple this is what you're supposed to take from it but for all those first time goers please study before you go that's all I have to say it's like yeah study a little bit at least at the very least understand this is a symbolic interpretation of what god is trying to express to you in a very conceptual way not literal it is not literal please don't take it literally right well like what you said earlier about how it just wasn't tasting right or there is something about the Eve narrative that just was not sitting right for you and I feel like those moments are an invitation when when we're pushing up against something and it tastes bitter it's not tasting like the fruits of the spirit then maybe that's that's where you begin and that's invitation to start digging into it so that you can understand it better absolutely you know a great example of how we flatten things is this word shema in Hebrew which we have translated as a word for call like god calls you but we flattened it our rigid our rigid language has made it just singular as a call but in reality that conceptual term is and they understood it this way it's showed linguistically through over and over again it's used many times in the scriptures this call this beckoning from god what it actually indicates is god is calling you you have heard the call understood the call and are are now coming towards that call responding to that call all of that is contained in the word shema and the reason that's important you may be like well that's that is the concept of being called and responding so this is stupid no it's not because what's missing in our flat inversion is this notion that god is only calling those that can perceive understand know what the call is and then respond to it if you feel like something is off that is not the shema that is not the call and you have honed into that you have heard that right you're proceeding that now you just have to figure out what is the call like what is the meaning what is the notion that I that I need to figure out for this and so that's what I I love about that the the proto Hebrew that conceptual understanding of the text because it's so much more deep so much more layered in and has the different aspects to it but I love that and I think what I found is when we truly perceive the call it's delicious it really oh and perfect and yeah and so perfect that it will not leave any of those crumbs on the side where you go I don't know that that bothers me no no the gospel is pure the gospel is true the word is true imperfect if you have the eyes to see it yeah thank you Jared that was beautiful I really appreciate everything you shared thank you for coming I'm excited to now go dig in and do my historical linguistic studies and hopefully come to a class yeah I would love that cool thank you yeah thank you