Unmasking the Abuser Episode 17 - Getting to Know You

Welcome back to the Unmasking the Abuser podcast. We're at episode 17. I'm your host, Dr. Dean of McMillan. I'm a social psychologist, domestic violence expert, and the author of a powerful book on Abuser's early manipulation tactics called, "But he says he loves me." I have to give a shout out for this episode to Professor Carolyn M. West at the University of Washington and Carol Jeffs in Melbourne, Australia. In separate conversations, both women have provided valuable insights for our topics today. Carol Jeffs was specific in her request asking if I can summarize the 10 best questions we should ask when we're getting to know someone possibly for a romantic relationship. Of course, asking and getting an answer is only part of the story. You have to use your new superpowers and some of what we'll discuss soon to be able to tell whether or not the person you ask is giving you genuine answers. Professor West, as I've mentioned before, is co-authoring my new version of "But he says he loves me." She told me about Robert Greene's sinister book called "The Art of Seduction." The title sounds kind of sexy, but it's not. It's all about psychological tricks to lure someone into bed or into a relationship. To see what it's about, you don't have to buy the book. You can simply look up "The Art of Seduction" by Robert Greene. It offers a fantastic summary of the basic concepts of his work provided with animated illustrations. The drawings that happen while you watch make it easier to grasp and remember the concepts. I found the method so intriguing I'm actually looking into doing something similar with the strategy and tactics of abusers that I talk about in my unmasking the abuser program and podcasts. Watching each selection strategy and tactic being turned into a picture can embed the information into the parts of your brain that are triggered when we're in a romantic or sexual situation. Anything that can increase your superpower is a good thing. The artist doing the art of seduction drawing presents nine different types of seducers such as sirens and rakes etc and includes a brief description. This is because the author knows the first step to learning how to appeal to other people is really getting a firm grip on what type of personality and what type of appeal you have. How attractive you are already to the opposite sex. I'd argue for doing something similar for anyone who's trying to find a new romantic partner even if you're not trying to figure out how to manipulate that person into getting involved with you. Robert Greene then goes on to really show himself when he moves on to the seduction rules. Initially he describes the object of the seducer's efforts as the target. Once he moves into the tactics he blatantly says it's about choosing the right victim. Any time the person you're viewing as your potential romantic partner as a victim you're obviously not looking for an honest, open and balanced relationship. Robert Greene then advises the right victim as someone where the seducer can see a void and claim or pretend to fill that void. He says everyone has something that's missing in their life. That's what we discussed in our earlier episode about how abusers select their targets, using methods to discover what their target needs and wants and then promising to provide it. All the while they're moving too quickly and too intensely for their target to be able to think properly and really consider what's happening or even to properly digest how she feels about it all. The rest of the rules are even more openly about manipulation, encouraging seducers to lure their victims into doing things she finds forbidden or taboo or moving out of the friend zone by pretending to centrist and getting the victim to think the sex was her idea or sending mixed signals to keep the victim off balance or emphasizing the victims' insecurities. There are a whole host deploys listed, all designed to make the target feel uncertain, play up her fears and self doubts and encourage her to give her power away to what Green calls the seducer. As you can already tell, this book isn't really about the art of seduction. It's about the art of manipulation. It's about the art of deception. One major difference from what we discuss in this unmasking the Abuser podcast series is that we focus on those who want to quickly build emotional bonds and gain total control in a relationship. Robert Green's the art of seduction is more like a training manual to get someone to be a regular sexual partner where they're at the mercy of the seducer. It doesn't necessarily or even primarily instruct the seducer to find someone for a real relationship. It's about crafting a willing and compliant sex partner. The methods he describes do require effort and a measure of skill so the victim is more likely to be someone the seducer wants to see more than once. An exception using his methods would be like Ryan Gosling's character in crazy stupid love. Have you seen that film? In the film he becomes extremely adept at using just a few powerful manipulation maneuvers like those described in the art of seduction. He then implements these moves every night on a new and different sexual conquest. You can tell by the practices of his moves that he's gone through hundreds if not thousands of women. The art of seduction tricks sit somewhere in the middle between the scams used by pickup artists for one time sexual contact and the methods used by abusers to craft relationships with their targets. The art of seduction being video is only 15 minutes and well worth watching. I would suggest you watch it purely out of self-interest. You'll want to be able to spot any of these seduction tactics if they're used on you when you're meeting new people. Guys who use these tactics fall firmly in the frog category on the frog versus prince romantic continuum. There's no reason you should waste your time, your emotions, or your sexual energy on someone who's insincere, playing a game, or trying to deceive you. Terror and throw away anything you have that says you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your prince. You may have to screen out some frogs, but you can definitely do better than actually kissing them. Now, in addition to being on the lookout for seduction techniques and abusers warning signs, how do you get to know someone when you're seeking a new partner? How can you tell if the persona they're presenting is genuine? What are some suggestions when you're dealing with the rest of humanity, normal people, not the drugs who rely on manipulation tactics? Admittedly, normal may not be quite what you're imagining. I'm sure you've seen the studies showing that more than a third of men seeking relationships with women on internet dating sites are already married. If you add in those who aren't married but are living with someone that percentage goes even higher. Lots of dishonesty in the dating world, not just online, so you have to be careful. It goes deeper than people just using decades-old photos or even pictures of other people to inspire romantic interest. Don't be afraid to ask outright if someone is married or in a committed relationship. And there's more. Here, I have to give credit again to Carolyn West. When discussing the importance of asking outright if someone is in a committed relationship, she mentioned how crucial it is to go further with any man who says no to that question. You also need to ask him if there's a woman in his life who believes she's in a committed relationship with him. Ouch! I got goosebumps when she said this because wow, is she right on the money with this one? Here's a perfect example of why that question matters. I was brought in a few years ago to do some high-level education seminars at a seaside resort. During the evening, getting to know you mixer that was happening in the hotel bar, I was immediately hit on by a man who invited me to come and visit his part of the state. He was telling me how beautiful it was and said he'd show me around. He made a point without my asking of stressing that he wasn't married and never had been. I was polite but uninterested. A little later, a woman who was part of the group got me alone and said that this man was currently living with a partner and they had a twelve-year-old daughter together. At the time he was trying to arrange for me to meet him later, his partner and child were upstairs in the hotel asleep. I was relieved I wasn't interested even before I found out what he was like. This sort of behavior isn't rare, unfortunately. A lot of guys keep their options open so they can convince themselves they're not bad guys when they betray their partners. It's why even married men who cheat usually have an excuse. She's cold or too caught up with the kids or she's not interested in me anymore. Men who aren't married, regardless of their home situation, have an even easier time rationalizing and excusing their cheating. So, once you've established the person you're interacting with isn't currently in a committed relationship, where do you go from there? Well, it's a balance. On one hand, you don't want to waste your time on someone incompatible with your personality or values or who's looking for a different type of connection. On the other hand, you don't want to scare them off by being too intense. In a minute, I'm going to suggest some questions that will work whether you're a woman or a man. I should say though, one huge disadvantage for women that I have to include is that for women cultural norms, exacerbated by the use of pornography, have conditioned so many men to believe that they get to decide whether or not a connection occurs. I don't know any attractive women seeking partners who aren't constantly approached by men whom they don't find attractive and they're not interested in these men at all. This happens even on internet dating sites where both men and women can be very direct about what they're looking for and what they don't want. The men who don't fit the requirements often approach the women with a pseudo apology. Such as, "I'm sorry. I know you said you want someone under 45 over 6 feet tall and financially secure, but I think you're gorgeous and I believe we'd fit well together. I'm 62, 5 foot 4, and currently living in my neighbor's spare room. But let's be adventurous and go for it." To be fair, men may also get approached by women who are outside of what they want. It just doesn't happen as often. And women are rarely as insistent after they've been openly rejected. Those pushy guys who believe they're entitled to at least one wild night together can be persistent to an extreme. It gets worse if they're abusers and don't believe their target has the right to refuse them. Whether they're looking for one night or forever, they're like gum on the bottom of your shoe. They don't understand what no and go away mean. Women often have to block them, avoid them, or report them. Sometimes it takes an intervention or restraining order. While we're discussing pushy and annoying romantic interests and before we get into the rest of our discussion, if you have an interesting or funny story you'd like to share about an online or in-person experience, please email me at [email protected]. That's [email protected]. Let me know whether or not you'd mind if I share your story on the next podcast. I promise not to use your real name. Now, when you're looking for a real connection for a committed relationship, what do we do? Let's start with the simplest advice, what needs to be included in your online profile and your in-person conversation with a potential new partner. First, be really clear in your own mind about what you want in a relationship. Write down 10 to 15 characteristics, personality qualities, even physical attributes. You should limit yourself so that everything on the list is vital. This is going to be your absolute necessities, your deal breakers, and writing things down has a magic all its own. Make sure everything counts, and make sure you write it down. Don't just type it. And beware demanding qualities in your partner that you don't share. I've seen women insist on a man who's tall, dark, handsome and rich, while they're short, pale, plain, and poor. And men demanding supermodel looks in their female partner when they're homely and uninteresting and have a mundane job. Even if these people were successful and drawing in what they ask for, which isn't likely, they end up in a completely imbalanced relationship where their partner has every advantage over them. They're setting themselves up for coercive control and abuse. In many cases, the person that is more attractive who has more advantages is looking for something they're not going to admit outright. A residency visa, perhaps. Or they need someone to help support their family. Or they need someone to sign papers for their money laundering operation. Before you think I'm exaggerating, I've met lots of cases of each. Dramatically imbalanced relationships simply don't work well. At the same time, don't be afraid to ask for something similar to what you're bringing to the table. If you're well educated, attractive, generous, and doing well in your job or career, there's nothing wrong with asking for those same qualities as a baseline for your potential partner. You can add whatever else is crucial. And note, the closer your dream partner matches the same qualities that you possess, the more likely you are to be successful in attracting that partner, and the more likely it is that your relationship will work well. Opposites may attract, but they're less likely to live happily ever after. Second, be sure to be clear and open about the type of relationship you're seeking. If you're just looking for a hook up or a good time, be frank and say it. If you're looking for a commitment, state that. Due to changing norms and standards, if you want what you call a commitment, you have to be explicit about what that means for you. For some people, having someone they title, boyfriend or girlfriend means commitment. For others, living together is the type of relationship you're seeking. they define as committed. With other people, the only type of relationship they want, and that qualifies as a commitment in their minds, is marriage. Be honest, be open, think about it, think about what you're looking for, and be sure to stress that you're not in a hurry. Abusers will welcome someone who wants a commitment quickly, because they want you shackled before you can recognize the bad deal you're actually getting. Third, don't pretend to be someone you're not to draw on a partner. I'm not just talking about claiming you love sunsets and long walks on the beach, like everyone puts on those internet dating sites. I'm pretending to be sporty, or to like opera, because you think that will pull in the type of person you want to have in your life. It doesn't make sense for us to spend so much time learning how to spot phoniness in others if we're going to be phony ourselves. Be confident enough to be honest. I have to include children and pets in this one too. If you don't like cats, love dogs, or don't want anyone with children under five, or whatever, say it. You don't want to meet someone you think is wonderful, only to have a serious deal breaker pop up after you become emotionally attached. Dr. Carolyn West also had some words of wisdom about this, a simple set of questions that work well after you start seeing someone for a while. Ask yourself, do you really want to be in a relationship with this person? Does that person act as though they really want to be in a relationship with you? Do the two of you want the same kind of relationship? It's all something to think about. You're listening to the Unmasking the Abuser podcast with Dr. Dena McMillan. Let's talk now a bit about how to find out what kind of person you're seeing. Thinking about that list of ten questions, I should first mention a little tip I usually provide when I'm talking to people about becoming acquainted with a potential partner. We may be tempted to pretend to like things, or to not mind things, or to be enthusiastic about things in order to increase our appeal to a new person we find attractive. It doesn't mean we're trying to be manipulative or potentially abusive. But at its heart, it's not genuine and can, at the very least, waste our time and the other person's time. We may end up emotionally attached to an incompatible person, or they may be attached to us when fundamentally it would never work. I suggest when people are first getting to know each other, they watch a comedy film together, or go to a comedy club. It's hard to hold it in when we find something really funny. Our humor is also one of the clearest ways to really see our values, beliefs, and the cultural norms that we hold. If the person you're with lasts at things you don't find funny, that shows areas where you differ and significantly. It certainly bears further investigation. Personally, I find that even if you prefer different types of humor, it can signify some level of incompatibility, such as they love slapstick and you appreciate intellectual wit, or you like raunchy jokes, and they like physical improv. A difference in preference for types of humor isn't the end of the world, even if it can lead to some uncomfortable moments. But please, be wary if they laugh at things you find offensive. That's a clear demonstration of fundamental incompatibility, even if they later try to explain it away because they want you to like them. Okay, so when you're first getting to know someone, what should you ask to find out who they are? The humor information is very revealing, but what else? I'm going to give you my top 10 questions, but they're not written in stone. I'll mention some substitutes after we go through the list in case you need slightly different information to make up your mind about compatibility. You may also have some really good questions that give you the kind of answers you need. If so, please share. Email me at [email protected]. That's unmaskingpodcast, all one word at gmail.com. Something you should also do to prepare yourself is ask yourself these questions first. Most of us want to get to know someone if we're considering them as a potential romantic partner or a life mate. But do we even know ourselves? Ask these questions of yourself when you have some time and space and make sure you provide yourself with brutally honest answers. It's much harder to find a compatible partner if you aren't self-aware enough to realize who you are and know your values, your beliefs, and your priorities. Now, if you're not absolutely certain regarding your personality, your temperament, how easy or tough you are to live with, or anything else, just ask your loved ones. Of course, only ask people where the relationship is sufficiently strong and long-standing, so they both know the answers and are willing to tell you the truth. An example, I have a sister whom I love dearly. She is moody, though, and an absolute night out. I remember her coming in one day and announcing to the family that she's really an easy-going morning person. We, her family, laughed until we cried. Okay, that's not terribly sensitive, but we couldn't help it. So, see what I mean about humor? Monitor your reactions when you ask the new person. The more you're able to control your facial expressions and keep yourself from interrupting, the more likely it is you'll get honest responses. Try to keep yourself from looking disapproving, or cynical, or skeptical, or scowling, and don't nod in agreement. Just listen. It's also better not to ask anyone anything that you wouldn't want to answer. That's a good rule of thumb. Don't try to ask these questions all at once. Go with the flow of natural conversation. It's important for it not to seem like an interrogation. A perfectly decent person may be hesitant to see you again if they feel like they've been subjected to a police-style interview. And when you ask these questions, if it starts a flow of conversation a bit of back and forth, they may also want to know your answers. It's better if you have them ready. This turned out to be a little tougher than I expected at first. I've selected questions that I believe are appropriate for the very beginning of a possible new relationship. There are other questions you may want to have answers to later if the two of you decide to get serious. They aren't really appropriate at this early stage. Email me if you want to discuss those other questions in a future podcast episode. I tried to find questions that aren't found at the top of everybody's list of what questions do you ask someone to get to know them on Google? There are also books on dating or finding a partner, blog posts that all lists these same types of questions. You can research it yourself if you'd like more options. For this podcast episode, I wanted to find questions that would be enlightening, non-intrusive, and less likely to inspire a smooth practice dancer that's designed to be widely appealing rather than frank and revealing. There are some questions that seem to be on almost everyone's list, like if money were no object, where would you like to go? Or what's your favorite way to spend your day off? They're okay questions, but it's too easy for them to morph into a version of "I like you." like puppies and kittens and working for world peace, the people claim on dating sites. Easy to practice so they sound good, but not necessarily the truth. Keep in mind what I said about abusers and their long conversations deep into the night. They do it to lower your guard and get you to reveal information that would make you pause, or even that you might refuse to answer if they asked you in the cold light of day. Abusers use of that method is cunning, inappropriate and manipulative, yes, but also cunning. By asking you in-depth questions when you're tired and you've been chatting for a long time, you're far more likely to give honest, heartfelt answers. This is just part of a range of employees' abusers use, as you know, all designed to encourage you to give candid responses to their intrusive, highly personal questions that are really none of their business at that early stage or perhaps at any stage. You'll want to ask questions that are appealing, appropriate, and non-threatening so you don't subtly encourage your date to lie or hold back. This way you can get useful information without using employees and tricks. I don't think it's fair for us to complain about manipulation and then for me to teach you how to do it yourself. The questions I chose for today should be used as though you're assessing the other person for a potential friendship. I mentioned already, you should ask about current romantic relationships. With the questions I'm suggesting though, there's nothing about sex, numbers of partners, or anything pushy or intimate. These early screening questions are just to see if the two of you are compatible personality-wise. You don't necessarily need a credit rating and a five-year plan at this early point. The questions themselves can be used in any order. It could provide important information though. So I'd suggest you try to remember the answers and think about them later. If you're someone who journals right down the answers you're given. If you continue to see each other, that information can be useful further down the line to assess whether the answers you were given at the beginning were honest or half-truths or even outright lies. A note of caution here. If the person turns any of these questions into something sexual, that's disrespectful. If they're looking for an easy hook-up, they're not worth your time. This information is about finding a potential partner. So are you ready? Question one. What's something about you that I'd find surprising? I add at this question because appearances can often be deceiving. This can be a fun question to explore some unexpected aspects about the person that you may not otherwise even think to ask. If they answer with something trite-like, that I'm still single, haha, push a little further. Most of us have interests or experiences that may not be obvious at a glance. You wouldn't look at me and automatically know my love of interior design and needlework. Question 2. What's your favorite memory from childhood? Even people who've had a tough upbringing usually have at least one thing they remember that can make them smile. Question 3. Who's someone you really admire? Now this question was on a lot of lists, but they usually use the word "hero." Who's your hero? I don't like to use that word because it often implies putting someone on a pedestal. You're looking for a more earthy and honest reply. Tell them the person doesn't have to be famous. It can be someone from their past or someone they know now. Ask them why they admire this person. Question 4. If you could change one thing about your life, what would it be? This can really open up a discussion about something that either really bothers the person or something they love to do that doesn't happen as often as they'd like, such as travel or spending time with their family. Question 5. What's something you believe in strongly? Something that guides the choices you make in your life? This can be a good opening to find out someone's spiritual and political views. These are really important if you're thinking about making a life together or even having a relationship that lasts some length of time. Question 6. If you could go back and give one piece of advice to your 18-year-old self, what would it be? By the way, if you're listening to this podcast and you're still in your teens, just go back five years. I know this question is also pretty popular, and I said I didn't want to use questions that the person could already have practiced polite answers to. But this is an exception. It can really give you some insight into not only the values of the person, but also where they believe they've made some serious mistakes. It also opens up the opportunity for you to ask them why they chose that advice. They can offer more superficial polite answers at first, but it gives you a place to explore further if you continue to spend time together. Question 7. If you could pick one skill you don't have and immediately do it exceptionally well, what would it be? This is actually a very revealing question if the person answers honestly. Do they want something that they admire in others that would be nice to have? Like singing or playing a musical instrument? Do they want something that would make them admired or brings them wealth or something that gives them power over other people? Meaning of power, a variation on this question, is to ask the person if they could choose one superpower, what would it be? Question 8. What are you the most grateful for? Look out for easy answers like my health or that you're here with me. Shrug it off if they try this and ask them to think about it. Complaining is easy. attitude demonstrates not only a more positive attitude, but can also indicate personal resilience. Life has a lot of challenges. Being with someone who can handle the ebb and flow without falling apart is important. Question 9. Life is very uncertain right now. Who or what's in your life that's helping you cope? This one leaves a lot of room. The person may talk about their values, their job, their family, their friends, their personal philosophy, their spiritual faith. These are good things to know about someone before you choose to have them in your life. Question 10. What's the most difficult thing you've ever done? This could get interesting. It's asking about something tough, so they may have to think about it before they give you an answer. It may also change the person's mood, and you don't want to make them sad or regretful, so choose your timing well. It is revealing enough, though, to be worth knowing. All of the questions are designed to get the other person to think. They're purposely not something that can be answered with a simple yes or no. You want to invite a conversation that gets both of you to open up about who you are and what you value, not just about your basic demographics or your life experiences. Now, did you find them helpful? Do you have some different questions that you've used successfully? If you'd like to share, please let me know by emailing me at [email protected]. Again, that's unmaskingpodcast, all one word at gmail.com. Next episode, we're going to discuss something that's been on my mind a lot lately, resilience. How do you pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again after you've been hurt in a relationship? How do you rebuild your confidence? Importantly, how do you avoid remaking any mistakes you've made in the past? We're going to look at the past. at how your next romantic relationship can be your best romantic relationship. As always, we'll be practical and realistic with some key tips you can use right away. I hope you'll join me then. Thank you for listening today. I'm Dr. Dean of McMillan.