Unity and Collaboration Part One

[Music] This is Mission Disco. This is Mission Disco. Conversation about Imagination. Innovation. And Christian Mission in Ireland and beyond. Welcome to another episode of Mission Disco. This is a podcast of Praxis Movement. And my name is Ross. And I'm joined by my fellow DJ, Donna Jenning. And it's great to share. And another episode on our Young Adults and Faith survey. That we conducted alongside TerraFund and Vox Magazine a number of years ago on surveying and listening to voices of young people. In Ireland and really the goal of the survey was to really find out where our young adults are asked in terms of their faith and in terms of church and mission and leadership and multiple other things. So we're recording a multiple of series on that. So today, Donna, you're going to tell us what we're looking at. Yeah. Yeah. These young adults report kind of picked up on a lot of different themes. And we've talked about a couple of them in our previous episodes. So you should tune in there if you want to get a bigger picture. But this session we're going to talk about unity, the unity of the church and what that looks like. Why it's kind of rising among young adults. And how do we go forward from here with this new emerging desire for unity? It was a thing that emerged throughout a lot of the little sections of the Young Adults report. And it was kind of, I guess, one of the foundation pieces from all. But to help us kind of talk through unity and young adults and the church, we've got Chris, McBerney, and Nonte. Chris and Nonte, why don't you just introduce yourselves and talk about what you do. Great. Well, thank you for having us. But yeah, my name is Chris. And I worked for Christian Union's Ireland. I have done for the last six years before that I worked for our IFES. That's who you see why I'm a part of. I worked for the English equivalent called GCCS, having become a Christian at university. So yeah, I know I know lead CY. Trying to figure out how to do that. I'm still trying to be happy and cool with young adults. But I'll let Nonte speak to where that's working out or not. But yeah. Hi. Yeah, I'm Nonte. And I work with CY. And I just finished an internship where I volunteered in Limerick in the Republic. And I was working with students there, helping students bring the gospel on campus so that other students can have an opportunity to respond to it. And yeah, Chris is my boss. So I hope whatever I say today won't get me fired. We've got your back, Nancy. Just say it. I'm going to get a lot of high notes. Yes. I'm not eating. How old are you? Just to kind of-- Yeah, so I'm 26. And yeah, I am quite old. I feel old, but a lot of people say I'm young. So I'm stuck in between. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think you've got-- you're the authentic voice in the room, aren't you? Ross and I definitely aren't. Well, we were close to entering the survey, I think, Donna. We just missed out on a couple of years. Purple, yeah. I was looking forward to my survey questions, but they didn't come. Yeah, but it's great to have you both on and to hear your perspectives of young adults, particularly in the University and College space. Yeah. Chris, your remit is North and South of Ireland and the universities, is that right? Yeah, it is. Yeah. So back in, what was it, 1997? C-O-I became independent from the organisation that kind of worked at UCF, over in England, Scotland, Wales. And really, mythologically speaking, the vision was to be able to reach the island of Ireland. And while having its own political challenges and all that goes with that, the feeling was that the best way to engage the universities was across the whole island. So I mean, you guys, having lived in different places and things that will recognise a lot of the challenges of that, but it is also something that we really get excited about in C-O-I and the opportunities for that. And I mean, there's to use across the island will look very, very different. The context are very different. The churches look very different. But this is something that we've probably pressed in on more and more as the years have gone by, really. Yeah. So I think that's good to kind of draw from the north and the south and your experience there. And we're talking about the unity of the church. And we are talking about the unity of the church in a divided island and all the different things that go along with that. So I think that's important to acknowledge from the outset. So Ross, give us some of the quotes. Ross and I were going through the report and some of the stuff that Kim might, Ross, give us one of the little quotes and the stories, I guess, that emerged. Just to say as well, for some of the listeners who want to delve into the report, it's available for free on the Praxis Movement at Delayee website. So if you want to have a look at that, it's covering a lot of topics. And it might be interesting for people to refer to that. There was a lot of talk about unity collaboration in the document and the survey results. One quote stood out to me from a young adult. And he or she said, "I would love to see a real effort by church leaders of different denominations to come and work together." I think big things could happen as a result of more unity in the church and working together on some of the bigger issues facing. Yeah. And I think like we felt that kind of summarized a lot of the heartbeat that was coming out of that. Some of the statistics that were coming out of the report was when the question was asked, "What are the major obstacles for the church in the next season?" 36% of young adults said, "Disunity among the church." And 28% said a polarization of views on different issues was going to be a massive issue for the church. So those are some of the stats that were coming forward. There's a section in the report about the polarization of views and priorities of the church in the context of Ireland. So you can access the report and dig into some of that. Some of those divisions or the differences were across denominations. One denomination thought strongly about one issue and another denomination didn't really-- it didn't feature very highly. So you can kind of read a lot of those for yourself. But there was a shared concern across young adults that the church should move forward in unity across denominations with a real heart for shared issues of local community. So we want to start really digging in to young adults, what's going on in culture, what's going on in the church, what is unity, what is emerging, and how do we go forward? So Chris and Nonte, I'd kind of love for you to kind of dig into your experience of young adults. Like, what is unity? What do we mean when we want-- we say that young adults want unity? What do you think is wanted and desired? Yeah, I think when we're talking about unity, one thing that we find in our work, particularly with students. And I think it's quite common maxim, but unity isn't uniformity. It doesn't mean that we all look the same. It's not that we all believe all the same things. It's not that we all do the same things. And I think that sometimes misconception of that a little bit, and I think maybe in the north of the island we're a little bit more susceptible to that. We think that unity means that we all must-- I mean, in my family, it means that we eat the same things. But I think in the church, it means that we sing the same songs, that we all believe the same secondary things. And I don't think that's what unity for young adults is. I think it's much broader than that. I think they want-- in my experience-- and let Nonte speak to this-- but I think they want to be able to hold to values that the church cares about while not needing to look the same, or that having to have the same outworking. And I think that's something that we've seen a little bit more, not just even in students, but even inside of our own staff team, and the ability to have disagreements in that, but to be held by the same kind of values and things. Yeah. I'll say unity looks super different for young adults, because young adults really want to have that sense of, oh, we're different. We're from different backgrounds, but we're here for one purpose, which is to serve Christ. And that's what young people desire. They just want to come together from different backgrounds and say we're here for one mission. And it may look different. It may sound different with languages. It may just be different in certain ways, but they just want it to be overall the same purpose, the same mission to present Christ. That's what young people desire. Mm. Yeah. And like, how do you think people, young adults, understand their unity? Like, what do they have in common? Is that being narrated by the churches? How are they finding that commonality? I had a conversation two days ago where my previous housemates, who were students in Limerick, just randomly called me, and they were talking about different denominations. And it just took me by surprise, because I didn't think this would be something that we'll be talking about. And they were just talking about-- about different denominations, what they believe, and what they personally believe. And they were like, "We really want to understand this because we don't understand why so many people are fighting or have been fighting over the years about different beliefs or different different things that are practiced in churches. We want to just come together as one and just present Christ because on the outside view, what they've been seeing is how there's so many things like scandals coming from churches or arguments coming that none believers get to see and they're like, "This is not the mission that we want. We want Jesus presented, but this is what none believe to see." And they're like, "Oh yeah, Christians always fight amongst themselves." And this is what like young people say, "Okay, if this is something that's happening with different denominations and stuff, other people have never heard the gospel with disassociated Christianity overall, despite the different politics, the different cultures, different backgrounds that certain denominations have in that sense." Yeah, gospel, was it like when you were growing up? When I was a teen, we were definitely kind of narrated into maybe not just denominational lines, but there were very clear issues that that church does something very different to us. I'm in that, so that's the north. Yeah, that's the different and we had no social media back then, so. Did we have email? I don't know. VCRs, VCRs, no one knows what they are. Yeah, but I think unity was definitely around responding to issues rather than a more collaborative perspective on unity. And it was probably only actually when I got to university, was I exposed to people from multiple denominations when I was in the CU, and that was actually a real pivotal point for me in terms of my world, opening up to see that there was a lot of other people who believed in Jesus and followed Him, but completely different perspectives and it definitely enriched my experience. So I think that's, I think that is the difference here. And I like the way both of you touched on that it's not just uniformity or we're all to be like each other. I think there's a richness in the community of the big church and so we lose something when we try and be like each other. But then I think we fall into that pit of for unity to happen. We have to literally believe all the same things and come around the same issues. So I'd love to kind of hear maybe some examples because obviously CUI is dealing with Christfather is from different denominations. Have you few examples where what you've said non-T around people want to come around the mission of Jesus? Is there some examples that you can refer to where that happened? Yeah, so we've had maybe like a coffee stand and then we're well, we're trying to invite people in to come and just talk about you know faith or whether they believe or not. And then you would see someone who comes to you and's like, oh yeah, I'm Catholic. I don't know if I'm welcome here. And you're just like, oh yeah, yeah, you're absolutely welcome. And then those questions will come then like, oh, but you know, this is what we learned about, you know, the history and this is what we learned about other people who said maybe they were perspitarian or people said they were non-denominational, where we felt like, oh, we couldn't be in the same room together. And yeah, it was it was about that message where we're like, okay, we may be diverse and there may be ways that people relate the message in a wrong way. But the overall point is Christ. Christ on the cross, Christ defeated death and Christ is alive. So it's about that message bringing people in and saying, this is about Jesus and we want you to come to see Jesus. It might it might it may be related in a wrong way. It may be related in a in a church-hurt way because there's so many of that these days with especially with the young people, they hear that from their parents and they're like, oh, just because my mom went through this or my dad went through this, I don't want to hear it. But the people that are open to hearing it, they come to you with those questions and those different, you know, denominational questions or political cultural questions concerning Christ. And then from those questions, that's when you're trying to say, okay, this this is what we are about. This is what the Christian unions about. This is what faith is about. And you even saw that a little bit up in Belfast. A couple of years ago, they started sort of the Belfast sort of CU City Mission. And what was really cool about that was seeing students from different CUs from different backgrounds coming together. And what it what it did, and this is probably based more of my conversation with church leaders up even in Belfast, was it showed them something beautiful in this next generation of a willingness to partner and focus, I think, there's not these pointing out there on on Jesus and seeing him as fundamental. And the beauty that comes together when people came together to, you know, together, despite challenges, despite background differences, and we're just looking to make his name known. And it was really beautiful. And I had a number of churches reach out to say that they've not seen something quite like that before. And even, you know, just recently we had our student conference equipped and on the Wednesday night. It was all a little bit chaotic, a little bit crazy. We had some intercultural worship. And I mean, it was chaotic. I think that's the fair term, Nonte, in terms of Highland, Kim Three. But what was really beautiful was just chatting to students after he were going, this is something that we've not experienced before. We've not, you know, we've not sang in that language before. We've not sang these songs before. But what was so beautiful was how they responded to it as students. And they were going, isn't that just beautiful? And I think that was really, that was really lovely to see. And a really good example of students almost modeling that for this next generation coming through. Yeah. So Chris, and Nonte, what would you say if you're saying and you're seeing some of this emerging, what exists in church life or church culture that is a, that's blocking unity. Why, why is it being seen maybe in different spaces? Yeah. I think, I think from what I'm seeing, and again, I can't speak for Nonte on this, but I think some of it comes from a fear is that fear of, you know, will I be removed from my own group? And I suppose that idea that, you know, particularly maybe more in the North, but I was chatting with some students last weekend. They see this in their context and the site a little bit as well. You have those people that you feel like will accept you and include you for who you are. And if you're to push beyond those boundaries, oh, so you suddenly become not accepted by the people around you. And so whether that's even, you know, I was chatting to a girl who goes to an Iterian based church in the site and she was saying, you know, they don't really want me going to a different church in Ireland. You know, even though it'd be much closer to where I'm still eating and things because, you know, well, then I wouldn't be included necessarily here or telling to some Northern students who go and open. If I went to this or I didn't go to that, I wouldn't be deemed assigned. And I think that was in some of the report as well. And I think it's that, it's that fear that, you know, will I still be alive to be where I am? And will I be sometimes it can be that idea of will I be contaminated or will I do things that our denomination or our background really values or holds firmly to whatever sense that is? Will I lose that if I am involved in that thing? Interesting. So yeah, like I think sometimes, you know, in our, I don't like to use this word tribes or in our common spaces because I think it goes beyond denominations. We narrate ourselves in to belong and be part of that space. But the other effect of that is that we put this kind of mental division against anyone who's not in. Yeah. And we don't want to, we don't want to sit in that middle ground, do we? Like it's uncomfortable. Nobody really enjoys it necessarily, you know, you don't feel included by necessarily anyone. And I think there's that sense of security. And I remember when I, when I become a Christian, so came a Christian at university 2012-ish. And I remember chatting to my mentor and I was really wrestling with some theological topics. And I was like, I can almost argue this either way. Like even the subject of baptism, I was going back and forward on. I was like, I'm not sure where I stand on this. I'm not that sure. And I had arguments on both sides. And I remember him saying to me, you know, because people were like, you just need to be super confident and sure of where you sound on this. Other people saying that to me, and he said to me, he was like, but Chris, it's sort of, you want to do that because you want to feel secure and you want to feel like you're included in that you belong. And I think when we have that, you know, you're right, it's, let's say, tribes, it can be our cultural background, it can be theological areas, you know, we can have these different areas. And we just don't enjoy sitting in that middle ground. And it kind of gets squished. And as I think Ross, you noted social media and, you know, there's the aspect of polarisation that comes to social media, those pressures to have a strong opinion in either direction becomes increasing. And unless you have that, do you have a voice if you're not really lied on it? And I think, but I'm saying that that middle ground is much more difficult to sit in, I think. And I think that's when we're talking about unity. I think that's incredibly important because that's almost area of being able to have to be able to sit in that grind if you want to see unity I think. Yeah, no wonder you have any middle ground. Yeah, so the main thing that would be recurring is acceptance like Chris was talking about. There's a lot of people who feel like they won't be accepted because of I don't know ideas that may have regarding the church or ideas that may have based on perspectives or people's opinions that have sometimes nothing to do with the gospel and they say, oh, it's in the Bible or because they have this projection of the name Jesus, they think, okay, because this person is Christian, this is what the church is like. And if somebody doesn't feel accepted, they won't, they won't come around. So a lot of young people, they have that desire to be accepted. So they just wonder, will I be accepted the way that I am in this environment? Will I be accepted for having this perspective when I come into the church or when I come into the Christian groups that will be there or whether it's the Christian union or just friend groups. So a lot of young people just have that desire to be accepted the way that they are or accepted the way that they behave or the way that they have this mindset of different things in general. And there's that division that may come into their mind like, oh, if I'm not accepted, then I have no need to be in the church. I have no needs to explore religion, but there's that openness as well. So there's just two ideas with acceptance and the rejection that they fear that they have. We're just pausing together or thoughts. Just on iTunes, SoundCloud or online at praxismovement.ai.