UnEarthed: An Alien Earth Aftershow | S1 E3 "Metamorphosis"

[MUSIC] This ship collected specimens from the darkest corners of the universe. Each one, a unique, deadly species, and monsters. [MUSIC] >> Something's here. [MUSIC] >> It's getting close. [MUSIC] >> We don't lock them down. [MUSIC] >> It will be too late. [MUSIC] >> There's a prize. [MUSIC] Do you know what it is? [MUSIC] >> Welcome to Unearthed, an alien earth after show brought to you by Perfect Organism, the alien psychic podcast. I'm your host, Jamie Prater, and I'm joined by my co-hosts. >> Patrick Green. >> Harry Chico's. >> And Andy Geekro. >> And what a show we have tonight. It was quite the episode as I'm hoping everyone else was feeling the same way. I was breathless at the end. We're going to get all to it, and I'm going to hand it to Patrick to give us an overview. >> Yeah, let's do it. So we start off with boy Cavalier telling Kirsch to recover the specimens, no matter what. Wendy finds Joe who has been cocooned. And she has a pretty epic fight with the Xenomorph, XX121. Moro shows up. I have to accept, I'm going to pause for a second. Babu says maybe my favorite actor right now, I think he's magnetic. We'll get to that more in a second. Anyway, so Moro shows up. He confronts me and slightly, and he initiates the data transfer of mother, which goes to something that I brought up last episode about the chip in his head. And he also plants a little chip of a different color on slightly. We also have the specimens being recovered to Neverland. And we have Joe and Wendy in recovery. We find out that boy Cavalier for all of his talk being so brilliant is not even an engineer. He has other people doing the work for him. We have Smean slightly dealing in different ways with the fear of what just happened to them. They'll fall out emotionally of that. And also this increasing sense that their lives are not really the lives they thought they were anymore. That there's surveillance of many different levels happening on them, including a new level, which is revealed after that. Because Moro starts talking to slightly through that thing that he put on his neck. We have Moro talking to Yutani, who is, we find out the, of course, the granddaughter of the founder of the company. Curly confronts boy Cavalier and says she wants to be his new protege. And he talks about a desire for her to read and start preparing that. Maybe she can be that voice that's smarter than him that he wants to talk to. And we learn a lot about why he chose the Peter Pan characters and why he's so obsessed with the idea of children, which I hope we get to talk quite a bit about tonight. Because I thought that was very interesting and not what I was expecting at all. We have Joe getting a lung taken out. And that lung is not being, you know, I thought when it was first happening, I was like, oh, lung transplant. That's what's happening because it was placed into this machine. An embryo was removed from the oven worth. This is going to be a lot to talk about with that because we're seeing different life cycle stuff. And that's going to always fun to discuss. And we have Wendy who is awakens under the care of Dame Sylvia. She runs and she is subjected to acoustical torture showing that she clearly has some kind of a link with the Zeno in some way. And then we have the episode ending with the little embryo guy swimming into the lung. And we are brought home with a fantastic track from the black album. We have Metallica's wherever I may roam closing the episode out, keeping our string of classic metal tunes alive. And that's about what we got. Perfect synopsis, loves it. All right, so let's just go right into immediate reactions. We're all kind of smiling right now. So let's see why maybe it's something different hit with each one of us. But what do you guys think? Yeah, I really loved it. I thought episode three was the best so far. I mean, obviously things are building up to what we see in this episode. And you do definitely get to see a few things come to fruition, which is really, really great. For instance, like I just love the whole opening sequence. Wendy like saving her brother, but then they have them having to fight the Zeno morph. Like that was really wild. And then trying to trap it, you know, like some nods to Alien 3. In that as well. And then I just really enjoyed everything back on the island. Obviously, I know now that the guys in the suits are the cleaning the mold on the walls, but it's still really creepy and it sets this really just unnerving tone. I feel like as they're walking through the hallways, which is really cool. You're not on a spaceship, but you feel like you're somewhere unknown and mysterious like that in space. And so yeah, just initial reactions, I loved it. The alien tadpole at the end, just icing on the cake. And I can't wait to talk about, you know, additional cycles in this life cycle now. It's just so cool that we have that addition. I'll go. Something that I love is we got a music cue that I really love that I wrote about quite a bit in the in the review today in this episode, which is called procession. And fittingly, it happens while they are walking back into the into the Neverland Ranch. And Neverland Island rather. And they're bringing the specimens and they're bringing Joe and they're bringing Wendy. And we have this completely unique for the alien universe, beautiful multi-tracked surf reverb, you know, telecasters singing guitar track, which on the album, I also love, because I think it's really beautiful and kind of mournful and interesting. But here, it just carries this like emotional weight. I really like that sequence would have been a very easy one to make kind of simple. You know, it's like, oh, they won. They got the specimens. Here we go. Like, let's move, let's move, let's move, let's move, let's move. And then instead of that, we have like, you know, two minutes of really slow kind of like careful music in the sense of this doom, like this fucking doom walking back into the island. And we see boy Cavalier become like, you know, just his eyes just grow like owls when he sees the specimen or what remains of it coming in. I love that. I loved how I again, Morrow, like, is already one of my favorite characters in any alien thing. And I know we've only seen a little bit of him, but like, I know enough already to say kind of no matter what happens, he's going to be one of my favorite. I thought he was so magnetic and so interesting and so unpredictable and unexpected. And his dialogue that he has with slightly went like not at all, how I thought it was going to go. Like, he almost treat, he acted very paternal to him. And clearly, you know, in a manipulative way, like it's like Morrow definitely has an, you know, ulterior motive here, but it almost sensed during that, like the actual father in him was coming out like this, this father who left his daughter 65 years ago. Really interesting character, really layered, really dangerous. And I just think Morrow is like such a magnetic addition to the show into this universe. Yeah, one of my favorite aspects to start off the bat is the the whole Peter Pan thing, which I thought going in. I was going to absolutely hate. And it's becoming one of my favorite things. I love seeing adult actors capturing what it is to be a child because it really hits home what how children act. When we see this juxtaposition of these so-called adults, if it was just children, we would just kind of take it for what it is. And I love the interactions with Kirsch and them and just how he, how Tim of the Allfants playing that and this sort of the vibe he's giving off I love like what and Morrow as well. The questions, literal questions, the riddles that are proposed, but then, right? And then these sort of underlying themes with Boy Cavalier and his whole notion of what children bring to the table and why he's fascinated by them. I can't wait to see where this is going. There's so much I want to talk about with that, but just initially that's it. And then of course the biology, just more biology, the little glimpses we saw of the other ones, but then the whole tadpole at the end was so cool. I loved it. Yeah, I love it too. I left this episode very unnerved. I was literally like needing a breath before I watch more, like it really unnerved me, not just of course the creatures. I did think that the treatment of the alien was just Jeff's kiss, how brutal and maniacal it was and how it sort of trapped them and lured them in like beasts do to trap them. It's just so well done, but I think one of my favorite parts of this show, this episode, so far is when it's me, I think that's her name, or is it nibs? It's me, the red head nibs nibs nibs. Okay, when nibs it starts questioning, what is this Peter Pan thing? What are these names? And I love that because we started questioning that right away when we first heard about this when things started leaking about the show and they start coming into agency like I don't, they're not buying everything. For a minute they were, but I think what's really touching me is that I see them as children. I don't see them as adults. These are children in this story and I'm worried about them and this episode specifically the atmosphere was brooding, it was morose, it was dark, it's everything that I want from alien, but also so new and so different and yeah, I'm still processing it to be honest with you. I'm still processing what I've seen and it's going to take me a while to really come to larger conclusions and more thoughts about what I've seen. Yeah, well said Jamie, I'm definitely, I think we're all still processing it. There was so much in this episode and dear point on nibs, I was scared she was going to like try to commit suicide. Like I hate to, you know, it's very dark and she's questioning really like her, well yeah, her humanity in a way, but like who she is or consciousness, how is this all working and that is, you know, a very scary thought for her. And so yeah, just you're feeling, you're in that moment with her and so it's, oh yeah, I'm feeling it. So anyway, how about we move to a little company debriefing and we can dive a little bit deeper into some of these themes. I don't Andy are bringing up Peter Pan again, that theme is obviously running through these characters and sort of this story arc with boy Cavalier a little bit and how he's running a prodigy and how he wants to have these genius conversations, writer, talk to somebody smarter than him, you see a little bit of that more, which is also really great. And the Patrick your point, Morrow, beautiful character, very wonderfully like how his story is being told. I loved his conversation was slightly like in just a way to tell his backstory a little bit. We don't need to see a flashback of him with his child, right? It's through that conversation, that very intimate conversation that you get to understand that he's a father and that the creatures are his life's work and well, he doesn't technically bring that up, but you know what I mean, you're just like we're getting these pieces of information that you have to then put the pieces together in your mind about who this person is and I absolutely love that. So yeah, anyway, let's let's dive a little bit deeper who wants to kick it off. I'll kick it off with some stuff from the chat. What I love is that already we have reached a point with the after show where there's too many comments to keep up with. I'm going to try to kind of filter the minutes we go through here a little bit, but one of them that speaks to something that you're teaming up here and that Jamie was just talking about is Lily Newmark as nibs and what's going on with her and her kind of dissociative state, which is something that I think I've really been hoping was going to be dealt with. And you know, something that has been kind of a complaint of some of the early episodes by some people has been that they feel too much kind of like superhero stories or kind of like, you know, they're kind of just like super-powered kids like saving the world like Captain Planet or something. To me, I never felt like that was what was going on, but we are clearly now seeing that that is not what's happening at all and that these kids really are trapped. And I think Micah brought something up great tonight, where she said, "Not since Lambert have I seen a character so consistently filled with a sense that something is definitely wrong." The way that Lily Newmark as nibs is showing us as an audience that something is deeply, deeply wrong with the situation is beautiful. And it's been there from the very beginning because remember, she was the one who asked about going home and she was the one who learned that she couldn't like. So from the very beginning of this thing, she's been the character and remember, she was afraid of death and she was talking about how she didn't like that and she was kind of grabbing the carpet. I love that we have kind of a new Lambert character in this to give the audience this vessel to pour a lot of our kind of anxiety into and to kind of see the story through. And I think, you know, De Perry's point when she's looking into the mirror and she's like pressing on her eye. I mean, I was so -- I mean, I think many of us have been in moments like that and in our lives where we've kind of felt trapped. Like this was kind of it almost. And the way that she plays that is just exquisite. And just some of the chat comments quickly, Steve Monahan says, he wants to know what's going on with nibs. Does she already know that she's -- hang on, does she already have that thing in her? Is she going to get it? She obviously has a connection to it. I don't know, with that -- maybe the teo cellus. The a cellus, maybe? Yeah, maybe that's what he's talking about. Thank you very much. This is actually what he's talking about. Yeah. And then, you know, there's kind of a back and forth about that. And Julian D'Souza says he was interpreting nibs vibe as feeling like she's not real. Like other people are looking through her eyes kind of like what that weird company guy was explaining to me and slightly. And there's some really nice back and forth on that. And I think that is definitely getting at the heart of what's going on. Is they are gradually realizing that their bodies are just not their bodies, that they are living in rented space and that the landlords of that space do not have their best interest at heart. I love -- there's this beautiful moment of kind of layered surveillance that happens when Simeon Slightly, who are also becoming some of my favorite characters ever in Alien, like that shot -- sorry to get off topic already. Clearly, I'm not looking at the timer -- that shot when the person is watching them. And Simeon puts it -- goes to Simeon -- arm around him. Yes. Such a real moment that kids do -- like that is just so -- I mean, I cried when it happened. It really felt so real like things I've seen my kids do. But before that, you have slightly with this really acute sense that something is wrong. The whole conversation, he is clearly unsettled, not just by the monster, but by the situation that they're gradually realizing they're kind of trapped in. And then I love how when Adam Eines comes in and he says, "Oh, we say everything through your eyes," and he goes, "What? I don't like that." And then we see that Kersh was just on the other side of the wall. They didn't even know that. They're going to have to look through their eyes. They're just trapped in a freaking fish tank this entire time. That sense of deep dread is, I think, what is really anchoring me with this series and what I was hoping Holly was doing from the very beginning, which is not saying that this is like a good thing or a heroic thing or a fun thing, saying rather that this is a dread that is all pervasive and showing itself in many different forms. What I'd like to add to that in terms of larger themes is something we talked Patrick mentioned in our first aperture, which is flora disguised as fauna. And I really think, as it relates to these kids, not all of them, but certainly nibs being one of them, she could perhaps be flora disguised or fauna just one of those two. We don't know. And what's scary is they don't know what they are. They're coming in like they're looking at themselves as they're these constructs. They're not just, oh, we're going to save your children. And here's a here's a new life for them. It's they're in a zoo and they are the animals in the zoo. And what are they? We don't know what they are. I don't even think boy Cavalier knows what they are. It's starting the threat of the threat of starting to unravel. And every character, and even in Kirsch, you can just at least for my, in my viewing, Kirsch is looking at things like what's going on here? What's happening here? You just see a little bit more in his eyes and the way that he looks at these children, you know, because they are children. And it's it is devastating to watch them realize that mom and dad, like there is no going home. There is no more mom and dad. We aren't even called who we used to be. It's just that to me, that's terrifying to me. One of the things that terrified me about episode three is that theme right there of not knowing who you are. Not even the people who made you know who you are. And I suppose real agency, you can tell yourself who you are, but really at the heart of this question for me, this show right now is who are we? And I don't think one person can answer that for humanity. I think let's say subjective question, but that question is really pervasive in this episode. Who are we? Who is Boy Cavalier? Who is Kirsch? Who is Mara? What are these things? Because humans can become things. And when we become human, and when we are in our best human state, we have empathy. And we show empathy. And that is very lacking in Boy Cavalier, who is the head of everything. And you can tell that he does not really know what's going on. He's just an onlooker. It's fascinating to me. I mean, that whole discussion with empathy with Curly, where she says, I'm the best one. And her reasoning is, I have the best ideas. And Wendy is concerned about her brother. So basically saying she has empathy, so she's weaker. And I do not. And I just have the big ideas. And there's something in Boy Cavalier's eyes that sparked at that. I mean, I'm loving the obvious ness of his name, the apt name. He's so cavalier with their feelings, the fact that they are kids, the fact that they are trapped. He's just like, it's a game to him. It's this chess game where he's like, where can I make the next move? How can I use this thing that fell into my lap, these creatures that fell into my lap to my advantage? He's even cavalier with his own body by just sticking his face. And you know, all the thing we complain about most people doing, just I'm going to stick my face in this egg and not know what it's about. He's just playing with other people or things because he think he views them as things. And I loved that conversation with Carly because it really set up that whole empathy as weakness. And that's really what tethers us to humanity. And then just really quickly with the nibs thing going back, the two things that she really brings up was the name, you know, her complaining about names, her complaining that the lost boys are name that but half of them are girls and looking into the eyes, right? The eyes of the windows to the swallow and your name is such a huge part of your identity. And the fact that she brought both of those up, I love her character. I thought she's like shined in this episode and really creeped me out. And then just lastly, the whole thing with Morrow, his conversation with Slightly, I got very creepy vibes from that. I got like old man on the internet talking to kid vibes. Like, oh, I'm going to be your friend, like, like come into my van because I have candy kind of vibes. Like he's learning that like everybody needs a friend and he's, he's confusing him. He's, you know, he's creeping him out. Slightly got creeped out by that for sure. So I understood like, if there's this weird dichotomy with Morrow because he's talking about how he had a girl, but then he's just very creepy and it's unnerving me like you were saying. I love that Andy. And I really, what I was going to say, I think touches on that in, yeah, in just a really cool way because I absolutely wanted to talk about Morrow, but really super quick. I just wanted to touch on the whole idea of storytelling through these children, right? As adults, I think it's such a clever way to explore everything that we know about the alien franchise, like the eggs, the, the danger around everything. They're not Marines going into a hive where they need to be super careful, but they can't use their guns, but everybody don't touch nothing. Type of a thing. It's like, what a cool way for Holly to come up with this idea to explore some of those old tropes again, but in a new and like a fun way, because this is TV. So like, you have to have some likable characters and some comedic more comedic relief than you would in a film. And so what I love is that opening scene when they're like slightly, and who's the other Kate again? It's me. It's me. Yes. Slightly and me are like dancing around the eggs, and they're having that conversation. And I just remember they said, oh, that was full on sci-fi or something like that. They're talking about like what they both experience like the aliens encountered. I just seem like, oh, that's such a fun and lovely conversation and really lightens the mood. But they're, but you also get to like explore all these new organisms again through their eyes as children. And it makes it, it just makes sense in that way, why they would be so innocent around these things and not really fully understand what they're dealing with. Really loved that. So part two, I just wanted to touch on Marl really quick. The things I wrote down are just that like, this was his life's work. He says that. And I think to your point, Andy, like it's creepy, right? But imagine you get hired for a job. And maybe it's like your sole occupation. You studied for it. Patrick, I know you're, you know, going back to school for this thing. And like imagine you had to, it costs you 65 years of your life. You're going to lose both your kid. Everybody you know right now is going to be gone when you wake up. But, but you found like the cure for the most disastrous disease in the world, right? And then someone and through a mistake, the vile that you had that's going to do that gets misplaced in another country. And another company comes in to take it and take your work away from you. You, like you gave up everything for that purpose, right? And so are you going to just let it go that easily? Are you not going to want to fight for that? And I think that is truly what Marl is, is struggling with. And he almost has like this conversation with himself, he's like about the morals and like his integrity and what's ethical and what's not when he's doing the the download transfer, which I think obviously he's going to come up again. But he's, he's really trying to figure out one is a machine, not a machine, you know? I think that's just so great. So anyway, Patrick, bring us into the new segment. Yeah, I think Jamie actually is going to introduce this new segment. Oh snap. Yes. So this next, this next segment comes from just some feedback that we got in order to keep us more balanced and honest, not that we're not an honest podcast. It's called I like griping. And of course, it's a famous quote from Lambert from Alien. And we just wanted to address some things in the show. We certainly talk about this episode, but in the show that aren't working. But before we get into that, just a couple of things, a couple of housekeeping things. While most of us on perfect organism love this show, we are not bought and paid for by FX for these opinions. Yes, FX has bought ads on our formal podcast for the series, which we've enjoyed working with them. We just happen to love this show. Most of us do. And there are some people on the team who don't like it as much as us for specifically do. But like, for instance, Holden, who's a part of our team, he loves the show as well. But just, yeah, we're here because we love the show. And if those of you who have been listening to us during with during the Romulus days, all of us didn't really enjoy that. I had major issues with that film. And I still do. And I think all of us on some level have had issues with Romulus in one degree or the other, even though generally most of us enjoy the film, there are some real big issues with that. That being said, I think it's important to talk about what isn't working on this show. And I'll leave. I'll start that off. Myself, I think that the alien, there's some great moments, great shots of it. I think it's inconsistent. I think that sometimes it looks like a dry puppet other times when it's got the slime over it. It looks really alive. I think there's one shot in the first episode where Morrow's in the mother room and the aliens outside the door and all of a sudden it stops. And it's like someone pulls it on a chair back and the head looks like it's the size of a rhinoceros. It just looks strangely huge. It looks like it, and it looks like it was 3D printed. It just didn't, didn't really work for me. And of course, the the exposition in episode one was really, really clunky. What I love about the alien trilogy, the first three films specifically, is that the directors really trusted the audience. And I think initially with this show in the first two two or three episodes, let's say the first two really, that trust wasn't there and a lot of stuff was just like showing and telling and talking to the audience directly. And I just was like, where's the trust for the audience? Why are you telling us this? Let us explore this naturally and play this is play this less safe. Play this a little bit more controversial. Let us understand because we're curious and we and in that curiosity, we'll figure things out. So that being said, I'm going to hand it off to whoever wants to go next. Yeah, I can say my my issue mainly was exposition in the first episode, which I really thought just set a weird tone for it because it's not really Halley's normal, you know, writing style. I'm glad that it's kind of done. I think, you know, part of that might be because we're just not used to the proportions of an entire television series. And so what might have been a minute and a half in a movie ends up being like five minutes of exposition for a TV series. So, you know, there's I can see some ways of kind of justifying it, but I would have rather not had that. I think the creature design is very inconsistent for me too. I think it's interesting because from some angles like the the xx121 to me looks like incredibly good. But for a lot of angles, it doesn't and it kind of looks like multiple costumes that are to different levels of like being finished. There's just kind of a weird inconsistency to it. I find it kind of unfortunate. You are a friend, Dean Hallett, who's an incredibly gifted artist, who's worked on a number of alien films. You could did this little thing where he kind of fixed the face of it on Instagram this morning. And I do agree with him. Like it does in my opinion, better with more of kind of a classic look. I think that there's this kind of weird shroud thing on the mouth that sometimes really works. Like when it's in motion, I think it looks really good, but a static shot, it really just looks like a piece of rubber to me or something. So yeah, there's just kind of weirdnesses with that. And in terms of like larger complaints, I don't have any, like I really don't. One complaint that I have is the fact that we get accused of being bought out by a network for having a positive opinion. Like just like, come on, just like shut up. Like don't do that. Like it's so frustrating because it makes me feel, it makes me feel like I have to reach for things to complain about. When the reality is, it's like this is an after show, we have a pretty limited amount of time. And we're really just having a great time and very excited. If you think that means that we're not credible, then like, I don't know, go find another podcast to listen to because because we are, you know, but that being said, we are not bought out by FX to Jamie's point at all. And for whatever it's worth, you know, one of the major simulations of the contract that we signed with them for advertising was that we would never have to get approval on anything and never have to sacrifice any of our honest opinions. And they were 100% in support of that. So we can say whatever we want. And what I want to say is the show's dope is fucking. I'm really, really excited about it. Yeah, I agree. I'm kind of with you on all the gripes. Really, the only issue was the beginning of the first episode. It just kind of felt clunky like you were saying. The inconsistency, I think the acid to me just looks a little too neon and glowing and just a little too unrealistic as compared to something else. I really liked the opening shot of this one, but there were some scenes where it was hard to follow and it did look like two different creatures. It did look kind of inconsistent. It's a minor gripe because the way the format is, the show, it's hard to really, people are picking apart and that's totally their right. But it's hard for me to pick apart everything until I get the big picture anyway. And I kind of just want to let it unfold and I'm loving this format because it's allowing me to just really ponder the bigger questions and not look at the details just yet. I'm sure when I watch it back again and again and see the whole thing, maybe I'll go back and say, oh yeah, it doesn't look quite right here. But overall, I'm loving the vibe. I love the music. That scene that you were talking about Patrick absolutely stood out to me. It was like just the setup. It was really like it hit me to the core. I was like, I am loving this. I feel like it's modern and yet still in place. I like trying to discover what things they're showing us. At one point, and maybe I only know this because I have little girls who grew up, you know, like 10 years ago, we watched this movie called Epic. I think that's what they were watching. It's about this like scientist dad who like has to convince people that there's this world in the forest of fairies and like little things and there's a battle between nature and like, you know, destroying nature. I guess it's kind of like avatars. But I think that's what they were watching. But I love looking for that and like finding clues. So really, my gripes so far are minimal. And I just kind of want to let it over. I think after seeing the whole thing, I'll have more room. But I also don't like having to search out gripes. Like, if they hit me in the face, great. But so far, nothing's doing that. Yes. I also agree with some of the gripes you guys have brought up. I was really just going to touch on some things from episode three because overall, I don't really have a ton of gripes. Like, I'm definitely not a super analytical person. Like, when I'm watching films or things like that, like I can be for certain things. But I definitely, I'm grateful for the fact that sometimes I can shut that off and just watch and like go for the ride. I think though it is important to bring up that we're all sort of searching for this first time thing again. Like, you remember the first time you did something like really cool or fun or the first time you got drunk or something like that. I feel like with every other alien piece of artwork cinema that has been created after the original three, we've always been like, you sit down. It opens up like it's a ship traveling through space. And then you're like, all right, I'm going to get drunk for the first time again. Here we go. And then it's like, oh, no. Oh, man. You know what I mean? I feel like that's like what we've been going through with Prometheus with Alien Covenant and then a little bit with Romulus as well. I feel like Romulus maybe was the closest thing to feeling drunk again for the first time. I'm sorry that I'm using that analogy. I'm sober by the way. But it's it works, right? Like in a sense. But it just never really hit the nail on the head. So what I love about Alien Earth is we're getting something very different and we're getting a very new way to tell this story around these things that are familiar to us. But it definitely for me is feeling like that first time you did something again like in that way, right? Like it just it's really beautiful to me and I really love that. So I mean, with all that said, the two things I really don't like Andy, I agree that the acid is very like predator green. I'm just like that's that's too green. Like the acid in Alien was very murky and and more yellowish, right? Had more yellow tones, which just felt more like a real substance in a way. This feels like alien slime more. I don't know. It just doesn't it just doesn't fit with what we've seen in the past. And so I was kind of like, uh, okay. And just the way that it bled out and things like that, I was like it should have been more a little bit more frightening, I think. And I almost thought instead of hermit Joe getting the tail through the stomach or the lung, I thought it would have been cool. Feel like his hand would have got burned off or something when he was like trying to move under it when they're in that shipping container. And that and then Wendy just like pulling the alien around with with the tongue, the hook in the tongue like cool mechanics. I'm sure it was fun to shoot that in the stunt and everything. But I'm like, you guys, the alien is like a perfect organism. Like it doesn't get its tongue caught in a hook thing. If that's how scary you want to make this creature be, I just thought like and and and her killing it. I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, like it should have escaped again. It should be like that thing running around prodigy city. And then them, you know, doing whatever they're going to do with the eggs back on the island. And so I don't know that personally for me, I really loved that, you know, more if I wish it would have lived. But yeah, those are really my things. And I just feel like those are super nitpicky. I'm just like, that's fine. I'll get over it. All right, let's keep watching the show. So anyway, Patrick, you want to read some gripes from the. Yeah, we got it. We got to get some comments. Just to that last point, I definitely agree that I think there's a kind of a scaling issue going on because it's easy to forget that like the hybrids are like truly like incredibly strong, you know what I mean, because because they kind of come across like kids. And so I think there's this weird kind of visual thing going on where we're seeing the alien getting thrown around by like, you know, kind of young, skinny people. And it doesn't really feel right. I mean, minor gripes. But I definitely hear you on that. It kind of looks a little a little weird, but you know, whatever. The comments tonight are off the chain. There's so many theories getting I'm like getting distracted reading all the theories. People are writing in here. And I'm just going to just touch on a few quick ones before we get to our final section. Um, so one is our buddy Mario at wired workshop who you need to follow because he does incredible builds of really, really cool stuff. Said I loved when Simeon slightly met up and we're describing the creatures they saw. I thought it was hilarious and accurate of how I would talk to my friends in middle school and I 100% 100% agree that our buddy LP Long Meyer follow him as well, especially on TikTok says I desperately need to know everyone's theory about the prodigy wall. What is the guy cleaning all three episodes made a point to show us that that though freaking mold growing on the wall or whatever it is is one of my favorite things in this show. It is just so full of dread. And I love when, you know, nib is when she's looking into the into like the eyes of the guy and he kind of turns around. They had that weird moment in the hallway. Um, just, just, just so cool. They did not look like the guy from Blade Runner. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I was like, oh my god. Yes, it looked like chew, but with a protein farmer outfit from 2049. Uh, so, uh, yeah, there's a lot of back and forth about the design of the alien. Steve Monahan says he's not entirely happy, but you know, the rest of the show has been so great that kind of makes up for it. There's a lot of discussion about if the aliens wet enough. Um, I do think that is a design choice that Holly's been pretty up front about in a lot of places. I don't know if it's necessarily working that great because it does look a little dry to me. And I think that's part of what makes it look sort of artificial. That being said, you know, we'll see if it kind of grows in us, uh, throughout the rest of the show, maybe we'll get kind of more used to it. Um, and, uh, there's been a lot of cool stuff about Tia Celis and how that character seems to be really a hit so far. I freaking love that thing. Every time it's on screen anywhere, I am like, I need a toy of that. I need like, uh, you know, uh, stuff the animal, uh, maybe a tattoo. Um, anyway, just, just so many great things in the chat. This has been so much fun, uh, reading all these and, you know, maybe we will, let me do our roundtable circle back and, you know, do justice to some of your really cool stuff that you're saying. Um, the last thing that our last kind of section, uh, before we close out is just on lore and world building. Oh, Jamie, it's something else. No, I just wanted to add this one last thing. One thing that I, I mentioned, I think in our green room or offline in terms of a gripe, um, plus of a gripe, it's just more concerning the atmosphere. When they're in the facility, it's very melodramatic. And it reminds me of alien resurrection, which is not a good place to be. But there's this show is working on almost every level for me that when that happens, you can kind of forgive things, you know, but the melodrama sometimes will pull me out like this, this dramatic pause after every line just like just just and like they don't really act like scientists. They don't really seem like real like real people, but then you get to the kids and all these other people and they seem like real people. So that would be my only gripe. But again, um, this, this segment is going to be interesting as we go forward because the more I watch this show, the more any gripes I have are falling away. And I think like the only thing that I want to say in terms of the beast is or the creature to Patrick's point because he doesn't like that word. Uh, it's interesting in alien and aliens, which are the litmus tests for these creatures that they can get them, they can shoot them so perfectly. But we, there's this struggle ever since then to get to shoot this creature to make it look like incontinuity with itself. And I don't understand that. I don't understand why this in this day and age, why there's issue with this thing looking good and every shot. Like what's happening here? I don't know, I'm not, I don't work in studio effects. I don't know how that tons of work goes into that. So I'm never going to be like, fuck them. This looks awful. I'm never going to say that. It just looks inconsistent. To that end, this is going to be an interesting segment. And I'll hand it back to Patrick. Yeah. And I think a major reason for that is it's just so brightly let the whole time, you know, which is something I'm not personally crazy about. But I think considering how brightly lit it is, it looks really good. All things considered. Um, so getting to the end here, we're talking a little bit about lore, world building and stuff. To me, the, the biggest thing is whether or not Holly is, you know, retconning or revising or kind of writing over play jars, play pretends, which of course is something that those of us who are monstrous Alex White fans might be a little bit upset about. I personally don't know if that is necessarily what's happening here. For those of you who haven't read something like, you know, Cold Forge, for example, uh, and or seen Alien Romulus because this is also now an Alien Romulus, uh, play jars, play pretends is this idea of like a pluripotent, um, you know, little nugget of cells that is that basically starts like a black goo acceleration process inside of a host. And that's kind of what creates the egg and it's implanted there by, um, by a face auger. And here, of course, we have this tadpole-esque creature that is removed from, you know, the face over almost like a cesarean section or something. And, uh, I think that's really interesting. I think there's, I think adaptive biology is a multivariate and interesting thing, and I think in certain environmental conditions, certain animals act in different ways and certain creatures can do different things. And it could be something where, uh, this, you know, face auger in the egg that it was, you know, inside might have sense that there was some sort of an environmental threat and that it needed to jettison something, almost like a spory-related, you know, fungi or something like that, fungi, uh, in case Dan is listening to this. That that could be an interesting way to look at it. That maybe this is like a biological adaptation where under stress, you know, uh, certain mechanisms are put in place to ensure survival at any cost. And so instead of just releasing this, you know, little black goo pod that would just dissipate into, you know, whatever substrate it went into, um, out in the open, it, you know, was released as like a little kind of creature lit that could, you know, have some degree of motility and could implant itself. I love the idea, you know, it's, it's crazy. The, the, the long, the, uh, so, so, you know, Joe Wunder goes a new monectomy, I think, because what you'd call it, right, if the lung is removed, um, one of his lungs. And, uh, the lung then becomes this substrate into which this playjarris prepotenz or this, you know, embryo or whatever you want to call it is going to be harvested or going to be grown in. And, uh, I'm really excited to see what happens with that. I think that's really cool. The, the shot of the lung in that case has been there since one of the first trailers for this thing. And we have been going back and forth, like nonstop on this thing, like what it could be. And I thought it was one of the creatures. You know, I, I thought it was this weird kind of histological looking, you know, alien or something, which maybe it will end up being, I guess we'll see what happens. But, uh, I really love, oh, actually, I just, I just connected something that I saw on another trailer and I just figured out what's going to happen. But that's okay. Uh, I'm really excited to see what, what it goes on with, with that. I think that's really, really cool. And, and something else also just to get to quickly is the idea of like a psychological link with the aliens or with an acoustical link with the aliens, there's that is something that has shown up in a few places, uh, and especially in the comic realm, to varying degrees of, uh, you know, believability, uh, none. And, uh, it's not very cool. Here, it's interesting because it's treated almost like an acoustical phenomenon. Like it, it, it's not like when Morrow was talking in slightly ear, and it's just this like voice back and then, you know, which makes sense from a technological standpoint. Instead, it's almost like there's this kind of acoustical relay going on where some, there's almost interference being caused like feedback from a microphone. And Wendy seems really attuned to it. And that gets me to this idea that's been bandied about quite a bit where maybe, maybe Wendy, sorry, if I'm going off, whatever, we're just going to talk. We're just going to talk. We're going to let her run. So we've been talking around a lot of theories about this, about the idea of why these children in particular were selected. I have put forth, and I have not finished this show yet. I will have soon sad about that. But, but for now, uh, I don't know what's going to happen yet. So I'm going to say this anyway. I don't know if these kids were ever actually sick. Like I think it would make a lot of sense if they just had certain genetic markers that the company had identified. And the company might have reversed munch house and these kids and convinced the parents that the kids were sick and that the kids needed treatment and been poisoning them, and poisoning them to the point where they said the only way to ensure the survival of your child is to do this new procedure. And you know, you'll never going to see them again, but at least you'll know that they will live and they'll be safe. And the parents basically signed the children away and that those children then were, you know, used for this horrible experiment. And we're just completely just outright murdered that these kids were poisoned and killed because they had something potent within them that could allow this transference to happen. And I think that might be something that's going on with Wendy with this acoustical transference thing that there's there's there's something going on with her mind and the way that it works, especially in concert with biological adaptive species like the alien. There could be something to that, I think. That's something that I would love to see explored more maybe even in another season, you know, and just to that end, you know, we don't know what happened to her father who of course is awkwardly played by Noah Holley himself. My current theory or you know, something I'm hoping happened is the company, you know, had him killed somehow to get him out of the picture because he was her last remaining parent and they wanted access to her. And I just think that prodigy is a, you know, like I've been saying a lot in the chat. It's a, you know, a technocratic monopoly run by a sociopath like it is just a it's a bad organization with bad morals and and it gets what it wants and it owns a city with all the people in it. And I think that it can kind of do what it wants, you know, no matter what. And I think these children could be a really great example of that. And I'm very glad that the show, even though it's our only episode three, we still have more than half to go. I'm very glad the show is already kind of getting to that idea and showing us like the the dark underbelly of what on its face looks like progress like Dame Sylvia, right? Like I believe that she in her heart believes that she's doing the right thing for these kids. I believe that she thinks that they are doing the right thing for disease and for, you know, suffering, but I think she's gradually realizing. And so as Arthur Sylvia, of course, that's something very different is actually happening and that they are not only party to it, they are committing it. And I think that is a pretty desperate thing to realize. Yeah, all really great points, Patrick. I am, yeah, I wanted to touch on a few things that you brought up, but for the sake of time, I just you are so articulate in a way that you describe them. And I really love the The Reverse Munchausen by proxy. Right is the whole process where you make your kids sick for attention and all of that. And so that that is just super interesting to me and how terrifying is that? And I would love if that is built upon in these furthering seasons as just like an overarching theme specific to prodigy and just a boy cavalier and knowing all of these things. But it's his selfish need to want to have like another genius person to have a conversation with like that's such like such like a butterfly of an idea, right? That you write into the show, but you're like, how horrific can we make that end product? Like how do we trickle that down through a story? Let alone like alien and be bringing that in. So that that's just one huge piece that I really love that the show is bringing about. And it's very Westworldly to me. I loved season one and two of Westworld. And I loved the whole idea that, you know, they were they were data mining. All these people went into the park and then they were storing all that data into like one person's chip in their brain and Adelis's brain and like those twists and turns in that show. I just hope we get some of that in alien earth because I thought that was just so perfect in a sense. And so anyway, I just loved all of those. I love the alien tadpole. I'm really like, that's what I'm going to call it. But I just am loving that whole life cycle. And I really hope that we get to see something scary with that or like the teoselis like latches on to the xenomorph or or you know something like that where we get this sort of mixing of organisms. So I'm yeah, just super excited and looking forward to see how they do that. And if we don't see that until season two or three, like great, I'm like I'm here for that journey. So yeah, I can't wait. So so many good things. Yeah, the things I'm there were two things I want to just comment on in terms of like previous films and what we've seen. The one air is the subtle nod. Like this is how I feel you nod back to Ripley and previous characters. The mora's character were basically he weeks at 65 years have gone by. He even says everyone I know who of you know everyone I've ever loved or known as dead. I had a daughter that you know clearly, I mean immediately I'm like Ripley. He's you know this is this is Ripley's story, but then there's a part where she's like well you signed contract you knew what you were getting into and he's like I'm not complaining. So it's almost like a sudden like a subtle dig at Parker and Brett too, right? Like like he knew what he was sending up for. He knew this was part of that. So I liked that reference. And there was also a couple comments to one with Morrow and Kirsch where they referenced what it means to be a man and the best parts of a man. I think Kirsch's comment was or boy cavalier telling Kirsch you're supposed to be better than a man, right? Because he was he was like coming up with excuses why he let Wendy go into the thing and he's like you're not supposed to have excuses. You're supposed to be better than that. And then at one point Morrow says something like I'm the worst parts of a man or I have the worst parts of a man. So I definitely think you know and then coupled with boy cavalier's conversation with Curly about empathy versus ideas. I love where they're going with this and what makes a good human what you know what are like innovation and ideas are wonderful. But if it's lacking empathy or those softer sides then that can be too much of a good thing I guess. So I can't wait to where they where we they take us with that. Yes and in terms of themes and I love what they're doing with the alien itself opening the egg things that we've not seen before that that layer underneath the outside shell that I don't know what you'd call that Patrick probably know that word that like a membrane. Yeah the membrane. I love that and just the the the amniotic fluid or whatever you want to call that pours out and the essentially it's an embryo. That's what it is. It's the embryo of the xenomorphic. It's really really interesting to see it. We've never seen that before. But of course that's what it has inside of it. I suppose it could have in another iteration used the the black goo and put that and then that develops into something or whatever but it they've made the choice like no no no this thing is stuffing an embryo down whatever throat into their body which makes sense that it would be and I love that I love the the care that they're taking to explore what this is the care that they're taking to move you know we've seen an alien film them dissecting a facehugger to varying degrees but this is different this is a slower investigation of what this is or what it could be and I'm here for it and the effects the effect of that tadpole of that embryo is perfect it looks real it doesn't look like it doesn't move to CGI I don't know if it's a mix between CGI and something real it could be I love that effect and you don't know where it's going you don't know where it's going and I'm I mean I do because I've seen it so far but but I still don't know where it's going I don't know what's going to happen and that terrifies me and I what I and I love to kind of pull back larger picture and someone said this earlier in a chap Patrick and I iron in as a as a critique that they didn't like the blade runner stuff in this show I fucking love it I love it I love these questions I'm here for it I'm here for what makes us again something I alluded to earlier what makes us human and these themes are being explored by everyone by the by the androids by the hybrids by the people in control the only person who's not having that conversation is boy cavalier which I think is very very telling because he's in give a shit he you can see in his eyes played so wonderfully by the actor who I can ever remember his name Samuel Blinken Samuel Blinken oh okay you can see so wonderfully the lack of empathy like that's how well he's playing this role there's they can see there all you see in his eyes are I want this I want to be better I want to be first I want to own this you don't see even when they are like he's around the kids he's not hearing them he's only hearing his usefulness of them what they can do for him he's a fantastic character he is a version of Neander Wallace without the grace no one knows who Neander Wallace is Neander Wallace was in 2049 played by Jarletta a wonderful role a wonderful character but Neander Wallace had this again this panache this grace this elegance about him even though he was still smarmy and gross you didn't really get that sense from him whereas with boy cavalier he lacks that grace he's just there for himself and I'm interested to see where he comes from who is he obviously he gave himself that name he gave himself the name hot wide he gave himself the name where are his parents who is this guy and even though he's not questioning who he is we are as the audience so we're questioning everything who are what is in front of us and we don't know and I don't know if we'll ever know we'll just ponder it and that's where I want to be amen we do have to wrap thank you so much everybody for joining this has been wonderful the comments tonight are incredible and we will a hundred percent circle back and get some of these on round tables in another place is so please stay tuned we have a special treat for those of you who are gonna be listening to the podcast version of this and that we have some interviews that are going to be playing right after we wrap this and we are happy to tell you that there's going to be quite a lot of these coming in the coming weeks and we will let you be surprised by exactly who's coming on the show but it's going to be pretty cool day two next week everybody awesome yeah see you then everybody thanks for watching everybody thanks everybody.