Understanding the U.S. Blockade on Cuba with David Ramírez Álvarez

[MUSIC] This is just Topia now, a show where a comedian and an academic explore the philosophies and religions of Silicon Valley. And the tech billionaires shaping our country, our world, and our future. I'm Kate Willett. And I'm Amille Torres. That's when it's suddenly hit me. Let's let the filthy billionaires. All the famars 'cause we don't want them here. They still won't. Hello, and welcome back to just Topia now. I'm Kate Willett. I'm Amille Torres. And today we're going to do an episode that is a little different than the ones that we normally do. I'll explain for a second. So as you know, listeners, fans of the show, we normally talk about tech and tech billionaires. And we kind of talk about politics through that lens. And today I wanted to talk about something else that is really important to me lately. And for a long time, honestly, which is Cuba. And specifically, the United States' relations to Cuba and lifting this blockade that has existed for decades and decades, but the Trump administration has made so much worse. I am going to, this is another way of saying, I'm going to be gone next week because I'm going to Cuba with a group of influencers and journalists. And hopefully to raise awareness, but I wanted to let listeners in a little bit on something else that I'm doing that is very important to me. And we're lucky to have a guest today who is a true expert on US-Hubo Relations who can illuminate what's happening for us. You know, I do think that most people, if they heard the details of this blockade, are like, why are we doing this? This is just completely insane. But I think, unfortunately, this is a very undercover issue in both traditional media, but also on social media. I just don't really see that much awareness about it. It's growing, but today we wanted to focus on just letting people know what's going on, kind of getting the basic facts of the situation, because I do think that they kind of stand for themselves. So, yeah, I mean, Amel, how are you feeling about all this? I think the situation with Cuba is a piece to the larger puzzle. Right? I mean, the Trump administration feels like there aren't any constraints. So obviously, people are familiar with talk of annexing Greenland, maybe invading Canada. I mean, we mentioned on previous episodes that Canada is quite literally kind of preparing for war with the US. Obviously, then there are the strikes in Iran and in the aftermath, you know, I think it was the first day there was up to 180 children who were killed quite possibly as a result of AI systems, Claude specifically, the large language model, the A model developed by inthropic targeting, you know, some place that was right next to a school. So, in the aftermath of that, Trump said something like Cuba is going to fall next. And so I feel like, you know, focusing, you know, Cuba to put it differently. Cuba is kind of like a microcosm of the dire situation that we're in right now, whereby the Trump administration, I think poses a very significant threat to global peace and geopolitical stability. I'm really agree. And actually, you know, as we talk about it, I think one thing that I want to say is that I don't actually think that this is separate Trump's particular flavor from imperialism. I don't think it's separate from all of these, you know, tech billionaires and bros that we talk about on the show because, you know, one of the things that these guys want to do is have their little cryptocurrency colonies everywhere. And that is how they view Latin America in general as like a place that, you know, they could go to kind of like their mansion, paradise and pay for everything in Bitcoin. And they cannot accept the idea that there would be any government in Latin America that wouldn't let them do whatever they want. But, you know, I think that most of the reason that Trump is really, really focusing on, I will speak about this with our guests as well. But I think that, you know, most of the reason that Trump is focusing on Cuba and hurting Cuba so intensely, you know, is both an extension of what has been US policy for so long. And also, you know, kind of renewed interest of Trump's because of, you know, other neocons in the Republican party like Marco Rubio, for example. But, you know, I think that in general, you know, Trump is also, he's, you know, he keeps talking about the Monroe doctrine of, you know, wanting to, you know, achieve like complete control over the western hemisphere. United States control. And, you know, I think that it just really isn't separate from like the fact that all of these, you know, billionaire slip, he hangs out with all the time or, you know, talking about, you know, how they want the place to like build their little tech topias. I can't say that that's for sure what's going on, but that's that's certainly who's in a zero with Greenland, you know, and so I think as we talk about US imperialism on the show, you know, it does make sense to like think about who Trump is talking to and when his larger project is anyway, I, I know. Can I just add something real fast? Absolutely. Yeah, which is that I would recommend a video that Gilderan put out, discussing the reasons that tech billionaires are interested in Venezuela. Right. So you mentioned Latin America, like there are, like that that's not just in offhand remark, like people are in Silicon Valley are specifically interested in Latin American countries. And so I know Gild has has much deeper knowledge than I do on this particular issue. So these things, I don't think you're wrong to suggest that they're connected. So today we actually have one of the most knowledgeable guests that I think that we've had on the show, certainly someone who is deeply, deeply knowledgeable about Cuba and US Cuba relations specifically. So I'm very excited to welcome David Ramirez Albares, who is the second secretary at the Cuba Embassy in the United States. And we're just very lucky to have him. Welcome to the show David. Thank you very much, Kate, for having, having me here for us. It's an honor to participate in your show, which is so wonderful. And we have learned so much from everything you guys do every week about international policy, US policy. So thank you. Thank you so much. So if we could start with just a little primer on what's happening right now. Let's say, you know, the audience for this, I think is, you know, people who, you know, are not in favor of hurting any other country, but they may not know a lot about what's happening in Cuba specifically. So if you could just kind of start with the basics. So yes, thank you so much. Well, in order to give an assessment of what's going on between Cuba and the United States and give a quick summary of more than 67 years of difficult relations with the United States. Maybe we can talk about the Hans Burton Act right now today, actually, March 3, the United States is commemorating the 30th anniversary of the enactment of the Hans Burton Act. The Hans Burton Act is basically the legislative scaffolding of what we call the blockade against Cuba. It is a document that was passed in Congress in 1996 that many people consider it a legal aberration because of all the international national laws that it violates because it basically interferes in a foreign affairs, not only regarding Cuba, but regarding third states. So the document that was passed in one of the most difficult periods between Cuba and the United States, we did not have diplomatic relations. We had what used to be called an interest section between both our countries and it was actually during the Clinton administration. It's a 30 year old legislative document that basically codifies the blockade and what you call here in the United States is the sanctions policy against Cuba, but the blockade against Cuba is actually more than 65 years old since Kennedy in 1961 or 62, I'm not mistaken. is taken, he passed what it's called the full embargo against Cuba where they basically prohibited any sort of trade and any sort of engagement with our country. It was in a moment that Cuba was developing its revolution, that for the first time in decades had sobering a government in power that had a national viewpoint of taking into consideration the everything that had to do with the national resources to the people, for the people and by the people. And obviously generated a difficult situation with the United States interests and not to go into too much detail. Basically we are here today, 67 years later with a full embargo against Cuba with the Houndsburden Act in place, the Trump administration first administration imposed more than 242 measures of economic coercion against our country on top of activating what they call the the sponsors of terrorism list. The United States keeps us on this list. On top of that you have the you have the Biden administration which basically did not do anything to change the the US policy against Cuba. Ironically after the President Obama you know imposed or announced a different rapprochement policy in regards to our country where we learned that in less than two years how fruitful having better relations with the United States could be. For both the people of Cuba and the United States. But well that it actually happened 10 years ago but it seems to be like a century ago because of all the animosity expressed by the US federal government against our people. And right now we are in a very complicated point. I would state that we're in one of the most difficult points in our history regarding the relations between Cuba and the United States. The executive order by the the White House announced on January 29 basically called Cuba an extraordinary security threat to the United States which to be honest is very hard to believe. And from that moment on basically has been imposing a coercion, a hard policy coercion in regards to any country that dares to deal with Cuba in regards to trade in fuel. So since December we have not had access to international oil or fuel within a country. So you see something horrible because right now it is having a direct impact in all of our national services, local services, anything that has to do with hospitals, schools, transportation, public private, anything. You name it. It's becoming increasingly difficult for our government to allocate funds and budgets to keep our basic services intact. But the good thing, the good news is that we are not, you know, we are not crossing our armas. We are looking for ways to get out of this situation, increasing our access to solar energies, our investment in solar energies because fortunately for the moment you cannot block the sun. But unfortunately at the same time it's not very easy because you know these are expensive technologies and we are going through a very difficult situation. What is the US argument for why Cuba poses a national security threat? Because obviously during the Cold War Cuba was part of the this clash between you know capitalist democracies and communism. These days like why is it the case that there continues to be such extreme hostility towards Cuba? Yes, thank you for the question. Basically right now I don't think they even used a specific argument to call this a national security threat. Basically for many years in order to keep us within the state's sponsors of terrorism list, they pursued this idea, this narrative that Cuba was a sponsor of terrorism because we were holding terrorists on our country that had to do with the ELN in Colombia. We're actually we were you know sponsors of peace talks with these people and the Colombian government together with Norway and it was very funny that specifically before Trump left office in the year 2021 about eight days before leaving office they put us on the list using these specific arguments and obviously it's totally ridiculous. They have used arguments that we have a specific you know facilities, military facilities from other countries in our in our nation and we have expressed dozens of times that this is totally false. The only military facility that is in Cuba that is against our national will is actually the Guantanamo Bay military base which we have for decades asked the United States to to give it back to our country. It's a space that is our national sub-interitory and we want it back. So basically that's more or less the arguments that they tend to use. That makes sense I mean I don't want to say that makes sense I guess what I meant to say is thank you for explaining because truly none of it makes sense. I've been to Cuba two times and uh guys listeners I just want to say uh there's like not really terrorists hanging out there as people just chilling you know and also I mean Cuba is a very tiny country like the idea that Cuba poses any kind of threat to the United States is ridiculous. The idea that you know Cuba is a state sponsor of terrorism. I mean if you look at you know Saudi Arabia actually has you know had a connection with the September 11th attacks and they're you know one of our closest allies and I don't I mean there's just really been no instances ever of terrorism coming out of Cuba. This is not a real thing so I mean it's just it's I you know all of these justifications I think are extremely pretend. One thing I wanted to ask you to elaborate on is you know the nature of you know what Cubans call the blockade um you know I think a lot of people believe okay you know the US is not going to trade with Cuba um no you know imports or exports between those two countries but it's actually way more far-reaching. Can you describe for our listeners what the kind of multiple aspects of the blockade is what the laws are how they pertain to other countries beyond Cuba in the United States. Yes uh thank you for your question it's well as I was explaining before it's a huge infrastructure of laws that are have been imposed in the US against Cuba that have a direct effect not only against our country but against third parties and third countries in other in the whole world and that's why we call it blockade you know they're unfortunately there is sometimes a debate that whether it's an embargo or a blockade we call it blockade because it has an effect a direct effect on the people of Cuba and does not allow us to have normal relations economic relations trade relations with any other actor around the world so you might say that the the infrastructure of the blockade has to do with what you call what we explained before which is the Hengsburden Act which has about four titles four specific titles that basically enforces different actions against economically against our country for example if we want to acquire a specific good a specific service from anywhere around the world the product has to have at least less than 10% of American components otherwise we're not allowed to acquire so many times we go through different problems where we we have a specific service that we use from maybe Europe for example with a thermal thermoelectric plants or refineries they have you know we have equipment that came from Europe from many decades ago but all of a sudden an American company buys this specific company that we dealt with so from that moment onwards we have to stop dealing with those people and we have basically a whole infrastructure of equipment of pieces that we need to restore and do maintenance with that we have to basically stop doing business with and the same goes to buying products from I mean anything basic goods food medicines if they have at least 10% of American components, basically you cannot get it. So we have a horrible example during the pandemic where we had to, basically we were dealing with, you know, like everyone, we shut down with gas, you know, the oxygen tanks, we're having issues with oxygen tanks in hospitals, and we had a friend who actually wanted to donate a whole airplane filled with oxygen tanks to Cuba, and basically the United States government prohibited this donation from another country very far away, because the plane was a Boeing airplane. So can you imagine how horrible this can be to be dealing with a pandemic, people dying, people suffering, people struggling, and the United States government executing this measure because the plane was a Boeing airplane. This is one just one small example. I mean right now, because of this fuel, actual fuel blockade being enforced against our country, there are about 96 more than 96,000 patients in waiting for surgeries, very important surgeries to be done, that basically are waiting in line because hospitals are, you know, only doing basic procedures. We have had to postpone cancer surgeries, oncological surgeries, more than 11,000 children are being impacted by this situation of energy asphyxiation, right? We have maternal homes that have stopped doing x-rays for more than 32,000 women because of issues as basic as not having the energy to power a highly expensive equipment. So it's such a huge infrastructure of laws and measures against our country that it is so hard to talk to, I talked to you about in less than, you know, less than 45 minutes less than an hour, they're, I mean, there's the executive actions by the United States government where they are prohibited entities lists and prohibited accommodations list to the United States people. And this is an angle that is almost never talked about. I mean, this blockade is too cited, the people in the United States are also being impacted by it. You do not have the freedom to travel to Cuba for tourism. You have to travel through 12 categories, 12 specific categories. It is very hard for you to do free trade with Cuba, you need an old fact license by the Treasury Department. And there is so much that we can talk more about. I mean, you know, I'm thinking about Cuba has produced some, you know, incredible medical advancements. I think I read about a promising vaccine for lung cancer, a drug that can stop the progression or at least dramatically slow the progression of Alzheimer's disease. I mean, these, these would make such a giant difference to so many people in the United States. And you know, the idea of just like, I mean, it's just, I think Americans and people in the US lose out a lot more than you think with this blockade. So talking about the oil blockade specifically, I read on Twitter last night, you'll have to tell me if this is true that I think December 3rd was the last time that any fuel was led into Cuba. Can you talk about what's happening there and like what what life is like without power in in Havana and also, you know, in other areas of Cuba? Yes, obviously it's, I mean, okay, it's sad, but you know, unfortunately the world of the 21st century still needs to operate with fossil fuels. And dealing with the situation, you know, reminds us how important it is to make this, you know, needed transition to renewable energy sources. And right now, that's basically what we're trying to do right now. We're trying to enforce getting solar panels. We are receiving a lot of donations from solar panels, but our government, our country has had to adjust in less than three months to a, to a, you know, a new way of living. There are people that are, I mean, the, for example, basic public transformation has stopped. We are having almost zero public transportation. Universities, high schools have stopped, zero schools operating. As I was explaining before, hospitals are only doing basic procedures. Clinics are almost closed. The working, the working force are basically being sent to their homes. People are in their homes. Some of them are getting their salaries. Usually when they are, you know, public workers, government workers, but the private entities, I mean, they can, they can have paid salaries to people that are home without work. Life has changed drastically, drastically in less than two months to, to, you know, to a, a, a focal basic situation where the government has to deal with the basic issues and not more. And, you know, at the same time, take care of the people of our country. And we are so happy that we are receiving so much solidarity from across the world, from around the world. There are people in the United States that are, you know, doing donation drives to try to help different hospitals, different schools and install, you know, solar panel, energy systems. And at the same time, we, we're happy to announce that in the, in the last two, three months, we have had one of the, the biggest increase of solar capacity in our country, in comparison to many other countries in the world. We, we just reported a record of 1,000 megawatts generation in, you know, peak, peak solar time, which is actually very substantive in our country that basically demands about pre-giggle what's daily, right? The only issue is that when you have, when you generate solar power, you also need to install, right? You need storage systems, which are very expensive and that's our main deficit right now. And that's what we're working on. We are definitely not, you know, we're not sitting laying back and sitting down and not doing anything about it. We're trying to work out how to make things better and how to get back on track, you know, and resist and, and look for a better future for our people. You mentioned the word asphyxiation, which just seems so apropos. You know, I mean, it's just the picture you're painting looks so dire. I can't imagine it. I can't imagine being there and dealing with all of the unnecessary gratuitous suffering and harm that is being inflicted upon the Cuban people by the US for no apparent reason, really, no good argument, which I guess gets to my next question, which is, how do you think this end? So maybe on the one hand, Cuba is able to enhance and expand its solar energy infrastructure such that things like the oil gas blockade that that doesn't have a significant negative impact on on those people, but alternatively, like maybe there's some kind of deal. There's some way to reestablish a working relationship with the US. So my question is, like, what is the US demanding? Like, what are they saying that Cuba needs to do for them to relieve, you know, all of the harms that they're inflicting right now? Yes, I mean, the demand of the US government has basically not changed in decades. It's basically the same MO. They want our country to be, to have a different political system, to have a different type of political system more in line with the US way of doing politics. That's basically their demands. They accuse us of being a communist dictatorship, a totalitarian communist dictatorship. They have even been very strong statements by high level officials saying that we are enemies of humanity. Basically, the status quo is the same. The MO is the same. The narrative has not changed and it's very sad because that's what we're here for. We're here to do diplomacy. We're here to, you know, build bridges. We're here to make, you know, to open opportunities of engagement between the people of Cuba and the US. And We're here to be serious people and to try to work out a middle ground and understanding. We have stated so many times that we're open to a dialogue, to a respectful and honest and candid dialogue with the United States. But the only condition, which is nothing that is too hard to ask for, is that the United States respects our independence, of sovereignty, our nationality. And this is nothing, this does not have anything to do with the way that we organize our political system or with a specific ideology. This has to do with our history. We are in Cuba, we consider that when we are being threatened that when our country, our security is being threatened, we gather around the flag, we gather around our nation and we protect our nationality because that is something that we have protected and we have fought for centuries. It doesn't have to do with a specific ideology or anything. It has to do with our feelings of patriotism in our country. And when you want to condition a dialogue by changing our way of doing, or X-16 or our way of being a country, then that is not a serious dialogue. And it's not based on good faith. - Both Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio have said that their families fled the authoritarian communist state in Cuba. Could you explain why that's inaccurate? And then also, I'm just curious, if you don't mind me asking, like what does it feel like to be in Cuba and see people who have their genealogical roots in Cuba now holding positions of power in the US and advocating for policies that are harmful to the communities from which their families came. - I mean, yes, there is unfortunately a lot of misunderstandings and a lot of this information regarding the Cuban community here in the United States. We consider that the Cuban community in the United States above rhetoric, above policies, above propaganda, the great majority want to have better relations with their country, with their national, with the land that they were born with that they descend from. And there are several polls that always state that they want to continue to do remittances, they want to continue to traveling to our country, they want to continue going back and forth trading with our country, investing in our country. And it's unfortunately that there are many politicians in the United States that exploit quite the opposite. Whereas the people that come from Cuba here in the United States are very hardworking people that, you know, in private and in public state to us that they, you know, they are tired of the status quo, they are tired of this hostile policy that they want to be like any other country in the hemisphere that has a diaspora that has a direct connection to the country and that want to come and travel back and forth without any restrictions, without any, you know, political, and strangeness and distancing. So the main message is that there is a lot of misinformation, a lot of fake news, and that we consider that the majority of people from Cuba here in the United States are not at all, you know, in favor of this hostile policy by the United States government against Cuba. Yeah, 'cause my understanding is that actually the parents or the relatives of Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, they fled from the previous Petista, if I'm remembering correctly, regime, which was before Fidel Castro took over. So oftentimes they have repeatedly said in public that, oh, you know, it's because of communism that we ended up, you know, my family ended up in the US. That's just not true, right? Also, does someone have fireworks going on in the background? So I'm in Spain and little kids, - Oh, this. - All these balls of gunpowder and they blow shit up all day. - All day, everything from dawn, from like 9 a.m. until 11 p.m. It's insane. This is a whole other conversation, but it's insane. I can't do anything about it. This is my like work environment. - Oh my God. - Oh my God. - Constant. It's so, really sorry about that. - So back to Cuba, how is morale in Havana and outside of it? Like how are people doing with these devastating changes? I was thinking the other day about if something like this, this kind of imposed economic crisis happens in the United States. I honestly think that there would be people being violent towards one another. There would be, yeah, there would be just a lot of hate and a lot of violence. And that doesn't seem to me like what's happening in Cuba at all or how people are treating each other at all. - Yes, the issue is that we're used to this. For decades, we have been used to this, going up and down with rhetoric and having a better situation or a worse situation or more hostile and a more engaged focus situation with the United States. And we have people, society that has adapted to be innovative, to always search for a way out from their problems on their own with their own resources as few as they might be, as cars as they might be. And we are really proud of that because we have, I mean, we have so many cool experiences of finding ways to step up our game and to seek for a different moment with a better future for our people. And just what happened. - We're really also-- - We also practice, yeah, sorry. - People are picking themselves up by their own bootstraps. I mean, it's very a bear kind of sense. Like you're adapting, you're doing whatever you have to do to keep going. And I'm sorry for interrupting you there. Please continue. - No, no, thank you. Thank you for your words. And basically, yes, that's what we're doing. We are, we also practice, we don't only practice solidarity with other countries around the world. It is a common practice between each other. So, I mean, in Cuba, our neighbors are like our families. We help each other constantly. If somebody needs, you know, somebody needs sugar, and we have sugar, we share the sugar. If somebody needs coffee and doesn't have coffee, we share the coffee, but if somebody has to do plumbing, have a plumbing issue at home. If we are able to, you know, land the hand, we do it. Because this is how we have grown as a society for so many decades. And it's always, it's obviously also has to do it. The socialist system that we have in our country, which is focused on the human being, focused on the people. We, and this is something that we replicate not only in our neighborhood, we replicated in the biotech institutions, as you were mentioning before, in which we are only centered, on preventing, you know, diseases, on preventing epidemic, and that's why we have had so many good results in doing research against lung cancer, for example, against the diabetic foods from, you know, from amputations and ulcers. We have now working on a, on a medicine called Neuroepo, which treats early and middle stages of Alzheimer's. And there's so many opportunities that we have, you know, for engaging with the United States through our biotech. But the, I mean, the, the results that we have had through our biotech has been because we have scientists that have actually been able to seek for answers with the few resources, with the scarce resources that we have. And have been able to, you know, use, I mean, resources or materials that usually scientists in other countries do not even think about because they have everything in their hands to seek for. So it is something that is ingrained in our DNA now, in our blood. It is our result of decades of resistance. It is our result of, of so many years of hardships. And, you know, there is always a joke that, you know, we have cars that are moving with the motors of washing machines. And this is, this is a fact there. You know, we have made this happen. And we have been able to repair, you know, machinery that are decades old, for example, without further ado. more electric plants with you know the innovatedness of the engineers that you know instead of not having access to a spare part they have access to their their ingenuity and they try to constantly fix the problems that we have. I mean I'm just I mean I'm so I'm so impressed I'm I'm so impressed with the resilience and resourcefulness of the Cuban people but at the same time I I think it's you know it's cruel that the United States you know keeps expecting that or in some way like people shouldn't have to be resilient all the time people should get to chill and just enjoy their life and you know be with their friends and family and the US cannot tolerate you know can cannot tolerate a country with you know a different way of life or a different political system. I think you know in terms of explanation for this why this is you know a lot of people in the US will you know offer the explanation that there are that it's because of the electoral politics in Florida because you know there are Cubans Cuban people diaspora that are you know very very against the current Cuban government and you know they're putting pressure on political candidates who you know especially for who run for president to have very harsh policy towards Cuba. To me I'm kind of confused and I don't know if I think that's the explanation at this point because Florida is so solidly Republican but it's like you know Democrat is going to win there it's just it's pretty much said so that doesn't seem true to me anymore. I guess why do you think that why do you think that you know people who run for president or or senator or congress like what's motivating them to take these very sadistic positions towards Cuba. Yeah I think that I mean this is my personal opinion they have an obsolete and you know very very ignorant view of what Cuba is and sometimes it pushes their policies their agenda but you know the Obama administration and the engagement that we had in at the beginning of you know in 2016 2015 proved that you know there is a different way to to deal with Cuba and that it's highly popular it's highly highly accepted and basically it's basically an alliance of mainstream media that also ignores a lot about you know the reality within our country and unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation about our people and about our our political positions in regards to the United States it is very you know scars when you when you read a headline that says you know Cuba is willing to to sit down and have a dialogue unopened and candid and honest dialogue with the United States and it's something that we have been saying for decades and you know you you you never hear on that you never hear on you know on mainstream media that you know we are we were open to trade with the United States the United States is willing to trade with us and you know we are open for investment for foreign investment and that you know that we're open for American tourism and you you only get the you know the the hardliners talking points and that is why we're you know we're trying to work out and reach out to more people here in the United States and obviously that is why we appreciate the opportunity of of sitting down and having this conversation with you guys who are awesome you you mentioned trade investment and tourism how Cuba is is open to those things what do you see as some of the the other like biggest misconceptions that Americans have about Cuba right because I mean I could I grew up being told that you know Cuba is like it's kind of the enemy you know they're they're a bunch of communists and so on and that was you know I I feel like that's to some extent kind of like in the culture like their cigars are really good but you know the country is it represents something that that it is worth us in the US fighting again so like yeah what are some other examples of like if you if you you know got a chance to talk to somebody on the street what you say like you you are understanding Cuba in the wrong way yes yes there I mean there's so many misconceptions I mean the the the first misconception is that Cuba is not a safe place which is totally false we have one of the safest countries in the in the whole hemisphere basically the United States has put Cuba like in a in a tier three country that is not safe to travel to and we he's totally false I mean we have one of the higher highest you know you know security in in the in the Caribbean we have one of the most beautiful beaches in the world we have you know very welcoming people I mean the there is also that's also a misconception there's a misconception that you know if if an American comes to the you to Cuba they they will be treated badly because they are American and it's quite the opposite we are very friendly to the American people because we are very welcoming people we are a very welcoming country and it's it's not it doesn't have to do with you know your nationality it's part of our the way of conducting ourselves as a society and yes we have one of the best C.R.s in the world but we also have one of the best rums in the world and we have beautiful coral reefs and so much you know beautiful you know natural sites and a biodiversity and a beautiful beautiful fauna and that you you almost never see that and neither on discovery general natural geographic you only get the you know the communist boogie man right which is totally false and we are there is there is also a misconception about you know our political positions in regards to other countries we always pursue dialogue we always pursue you know a friendly conversation we have great relations with you know almost every country around the world and we have trade with almost every country around the world and yes I mean there is so much that it could be learned from you know coming to Cuba so I ask you you know what are the the misconceptions that you that you have about Cuba maybe I can answer if it's true or false yeah I I just talked like 20 people into going to Cuba I'm organizing a delegation next week and I'm thinking about the questions that people ask me you know and people were yeah a lot of people were like are you are we welcome there do they hate us and you know I told everyone that based on my experience you know you're gonna Cubans are gonna be really glad that you're there and very nice to you you know I mean I think that I mean I think that you love you you love to answer this but I think that people in Cuba know that not every person in the United States is a supportive of this insane blockade I think in fact to the you know when they've pulled it the blockade is very unpopular and people watch you know normal relations with Cuba don't see any reason for this wacko cold war nonsense anymore you know I guess what do what do Cubans think about people in the United States yeah I mean that's a great question my experience after being about more than three years here in the US is that every person that we talk to is friendly to us and the first thing after we say that we're from Cuba it's like oh I would like to go to Cuba can I go is it possible you know the second thing they say oh I love Cuba I love the people of Cuba I love the culture I like the music I love the dance I love the cigars I love the the rum the beaches it's you know 99% of the time we get friendly reactions and I'm not being you know I'm not you know giving you a you know a story for you to fall for this is of course this is the real life facts and we have traveled to southern states you know red blue states and they are all very friendly to us and most of the time they consider that the US is of solid it's not gotten anywhere after decades of hostility and that they want to have better relations with the people of Cuba with the government with our businesses with our cultural institutions with basically everyone I think as in American, I feel so privileged because having traveled quite a bit, it is amazing how people consistently, even in countries that are on the receiving end of American hegemony, etc., how they are able to distinguish between the US government and the US people. Right? And there are so many places where they say, yeah, like your government, I think it's terrible, but nothing against the people, that's not always the case in the US. Right? Oh, you know, you're from Asia or from Nigeria or something. Like that fact alone makes me sort of like single you out as problematic in some way. So I'm just, I guess there's a sense in which I'm not surprised that humans are so welcoming to Americans, despite the fact that our government is in my opinion so awful. I just wanted to say thank you so much for coming on this show, David. This has really been an interesting and informative conversation and I guess, you know, just to close out, you know, is there any way that do you see that, you know, people in the United States can support Cuba right now? Obviously, I know it's very difficult for, you know, people in the US to, you know, to donate money directly to like, you know, a non-profit and Cuba, it's, I don't know, but like how can people actually help? Yes. Thank you so much for having me here. It's been a great experience with you guys. You guys are great and highly appreciated again and once you're questioned, I mean, come to Cuba. I mean, that's the first answer. Come to Cuba, visit us, learn from Cuba, from, from your own eyes, from your own experiences. Don't listen to us, you know, visit Cuba, leave the experience. And the second answer is that, yes, there are people in the US that are organizing and doing several donation drives and there's a few organizations that have licenses to send, you know, aid to Cuba. Some people are doing drives to buy solar panels for our country. Some people are doing donation drives to get medicines to our people. Some people are organizing to travel to our country. So yes, that's basically it. My advice is that you come to us to our country, you visit us, you leave from our country, from our experience and then come back and, you know, you know, share this experience with the people in the United States. Usually everybody's like, "Wow, this is a life-changing experience. I, for many years, I have been lied to. I visited Cuba. I came back and it has nothing to do with what I've learned." And we get this talking point constantly. So honestly, thank you so much for this opportunity to speak to you. Thanks for joining us. Thank you so much. And yeah, and I do want to say that it is, and I think one thing that, you know, a lot of people in the US don't know is that it is legal to go to Cuba. Like, you can buy a flight on American Airlines. There are multiple flights per day. There are some restrictions about where you're allowed to spend money in Cuba and, you know, if you need to pursue educational or humanitarian activities. But, you know, it's, it's basically legal, just like, straight up legal to go to Cuba. It's not hard to figure out. You can just fly there. A flumb Florida. So, and it's like an hour, it's an hour-long flight. So yes, I hope you do consider going to Cuba listeners by the time you hear this episode. I may be in Cuba myself. So, I'm really excited to visit next week. Thank you so much, David. Thank you. Thank you very much. This Topian Howe is a co-production of a meal Taurus and Kate Willett. Our theme song is Hunger Strike by a meal Taurus. Our art is by Ellie Valley, and our producer is Michelle Luos. We have no outside funding or advertisers. So, if you can become a contributor on Patreon, we deeply appreciate your help keeping the show going. Please rate and review us on your platform of choice. It really helps get the word out. Thank you so much. [MUSIC PLAYING]