Understanding the Emotional Journey: Mental Health and Enrollment Insights with Dr. Raquel Bermejo

This episode is sponsored by Student Growth Partners, your trusted partner in helping universities, and if you enjoy this podcast, please like, subscribe and share it with friends who might find it valuable. Your support helps us reach more listeners and continue bringing you expert insights from the world of higher education. Welcome to the latest episode of the enrollment clinic. My guest today is Raquel Bermejo. She is the Associate Vice President of Market Research and Planning at R&L. Raquel, welcome. Thank you so much for having me. Now I have to tell you, I'm a huge fan of research. Anybody that knows me knows that I'm a voracious reader of research. I have R&L bookmarked on my computer and every time something comes up, some new research. I just like spitting numbers from various research because I also feel as a marketing and admissions professional, it really, really helps me out a lot. It's, I know what the students are talking about. I know what respective students are talking about and now I know what my next step is. This leads me to the latest research you have done, which is enrollment and emotional well-being of students. This was very kind of dear to my heart as a topic because mental health is a huge topic now. And my first question is, what led you to pick this as a topic of research? That's a great question. Just out of conversation. It was mainly the fact that I didn't see anything out there that actually was looking at students' emotional journey through the college planning experience. Yet, everyone, we were surveying all of the main players and main helpers in students' college planning were worried about a student's mental health. So teachers, I was waiting for research about high school teachers, middle school teachers, and worried about their students' mental health. During the pandemic, post-pandemic, prospective parents of the prospective students were also saying their children's mental health was one of their main concerns as they thought about their college, future college experience. And on the college side, I was seeing the same, yet I felt that we had a void to feel and a need to get information out to colleges to help them understand what are students' feelings while they're looking for colleges. We can't all agree that students' mental health is an issue yet continued to act like we have in the past. That was a reason. Why do you think universities are not talking much about mental health or have not caught up, have not caught up yet with this as being a major issue with new prospective students? Attitude of someone else's problem is its residential life problem, its retention problem, is the student success problem, is the instructor's problem, is their family's problem, is their health center problem, but it doesn't really affect enrollment and admissions. We're protected from that. You and I know we're not because they are the ones we're trying to recruit and support. I don't think it's out of malice, I think it's out of just not knowing what to be looking at. I agree with you. From my perspective, when I was leading an admissions and marketing team, we always looked at what our ultimate goal was and our ultimate goal was recruitment and enrollment. If there's an issue, let's pass it on to, let's deal, let the other department has to deal with it once the students are here, deal with it. Again, that's obviously not the right approach because at the end of the day, the university has to operate as one unit than not as separate individual departments running after their own goals. Some of the statistics there were really interesting. To me, 67% feared the admissions interview. 51% don't know where to start. 60% are scared they'll choose the wrong school. And I think of when I read these and I think of all of the problems that are causing this anxiety are so easily solvable. It's all information, right? It is. It is information. It is information upfront. It's not trying to vary information in the website or waiting for the right time to tell students some of these things. It's also about becoming less transactional and less focused on us knowing the timeline, sorry, when the students are going to need each piece of information because it varies. It varies very much on the student's journey and I think part of becoming a student center which sort of someone everyone is talking about becoming a student center and being able to meet students where they are. I think all part of that is allowing the students to have the information when they need it, not when we think they need it. Also you mentioned some of the things that the students are afraid of or anxious or nervous about. There are things that they're not even there. I mean, I was talking, there are national conference presenting these results and I asked via a poll how many of the institutions that were present at this session actually had an admissions interview and so few of them actually said they did. So I'm wondering are these students actually afraid of the steps and themes that are not even an issue for the institutions they're looking at? And that's sad. I think I may have a theory and that's from your other research that you did with Haldah on the high school students. There was a statistics there that said 53% of high school students don't even know where to start to look for college. So I'm thinking if more than half don't know where to look for college, of course they don't have information whether an interview is required or not. But I also think it speaks a little bit to the issue with these newer generations. They're not having a lot of face-to-face interactions and that being kind of a really big fear of them. So not only have a face-to-face interaction, I have to sell myself and tell somebody why I did long here. The problem is not necessarily a university problem. It's more of a starting from grade school, middle school, high school and getting students to be more. But it becomes our problem because now these are the students that we are recruiting. So we need to be able to figure out how to help them not only be comfortable with the steps we're asking them to take if you have an interview as part of your admission requirement or an essay, but also to be able to help them actually be successful at those steps so they can finish their applications and we can admit them. So there are so many things and actually some of them are very creative that I've seen people talk about doing when they're talking about how do we help the students, like you said, become comfortable with an interview. Get ahead of the problem and actually offer virtual resources for students to whether they're going to apply to your institution or not, but help them become comfortable with having an interview. And before you're actually asking them to do it. So there are ways to work with them and actually help them. Which should be really the goal of anything we do. Yeah. And I think, obviously, every university has outreach personnel that goes to all these high schools and now roughly about 40% start looking for universities even before they get into high school. So they're going deeper into middle school now. And I think there's an opportunity for both colleges, universities and high schools at middle schools to work on providing that type of information and providing that type of skill. Now, I got a question going back to research. When you sit with your team and you decide what your next topic of research is, what goes into it, how do you decide what is it that you're going to be looking into? We look at gaps and we look at the needs. So we listen to our consultants and sales and people that are working with the institutions and we try to find a happy medium between what's going to be helpful to the institutions and what is going to be helpful to ask us an organization to continue to improve our products and services to meet the needs of our clients. So it's sort of a give and take of what is needed out there, what do we need and how do we get there? And from your experience, what type of research or topics of research universities tend to gravitate to most often, you know, that you see a lot more demand from institutions, both in terms of readability and in terms of, you know, coming to you and saying, hey, we need more insights into this. I think you could put them in two buckets. One of them would be the information they can act on right away, you know, information about first generation families and campus visits. Do you have any information about that Raquel? So I do. So here comes the information and they can act on it and also information they can use for future planning. So for meetings, for budget, for to meet with their board of trustees, to take up to get funding for programs to create. This has been a new one that I have come in contact in the last couple of years. Looking for information that will help them get support from their leadership to create partnerships with either high schools or community organizations. And what, what methods have you seen, you know, students respond to most when it comes to research? And I'm sure there's different ways for you to reach students when you do research. And what's, what is it, email? Is it text? Is it, you know, what are some of the nowadays, some of the most effective methods for you to conduct your research? Unfortunately, I would say, I think a very valuable way to do research with kids because I like to go back to the fact that my market are kids. They're pretty young kids. If you think about it, 9/10th graders, I would love to go back to doing focus groups. I stopped right before the pandemic and I haven't gone back to it. Doing focus groups with kids, it has so many layers of permissions and especially if you're going to go through a high school, there is, I mean, anywhere from background checks to, you know, having to prepare proposals for the district and then having to actually present the results to them, but I definitely love the focus groups. But to be honest, I haven't done in a few years. We've been doing pretty well with surveys and our surveys are then either via email or through this one that we're talking about and emotions is actually done through the ZeeMe app. And that, with some limitations on the amount of questions you can ask, five, six questions, but it seems to work. So I think to go back to your question, I think it depends on the topic you're studying. You just need to think carefully of what you want to get out of it and that will point to the right method to get the information from kids. Yeah, so tell me a little bit more about the focus group part. One thing about focus groups is I wonder how actionable they are, right? I mean, you're talking to seven, eight students, you know, what else? So tell me a little bit more about it and how do you make those types of insights actionable? I was, I taught for 15 years before I joined RNL. So I think to me, that comes naturally. And my doctor research focus was using student perceptions and using their feedback in the classroom as an actionable way to build my instructional plan. So I think I take all of that with me into the focus group and I've gone into focus groups thinking I was going to talk about one thing and guess what? We ended up talking about something completely different. So I'm sure someone listening who actually that focus groups for a living will be like over-cal. Like, you are not a very good researcher. But you know, when you're talking to a group of 15 or 16 year olds and something else is in their mind, well, I can either just go with it and try to learn from what they're talking about or I can dig my heels and say, well, no, we're going to talk about it's college websites. So let's all look at the screen. An actionable to us when we were doing the focus groups and I'm talking 10 years ago when I started doing them, they were very actionable because we were actually, I was playing games with the students, but I was games not as in games, games, like I was actually playing with them. I understand, yeah. We were talking about subject lines of emails and I was letting them sort of dream with me. So I was giving them a subject line and they were telling me what they thought that email would tell them when they opened it. So yeah, that was goal. I mean, think about it. This was, I'm saying, this was 10 years ago. So things have changed a lot. I don't know what that research would look like today, but it was so much fun. I think it was fun and it was actionable, which made it a success. I spent four hours in high school and I talked to 30 students in those four hours and I came up with just awesome insights into what was a good subject line for any now for them. That's just one example. Yeah. I think you have to be very flexible when you're going to focus group with the group of kids. And be willing to be surprised. What do you think universities do wrong when they look at research? There is always research to prove whatever point you want to drive and whatever budget item you want to stay attention to and whatever company you're working with. I think those things drive the research they're looking at. I have spoken to folks from institutions that didn't know we were doing this research on the motions of students and absolutely loved it. And they're not our clients. They work with other companies. But I think they don't have enough time and resources to actually be out there. Like you were saying. You had a specific staff member that actually looked at research. I don't think everyone can do that. So I think it's about just keeping your eyes open and being willing to see other ways to do things. And even then, sometimes the research points to things that not everyone can afford or they just don't have the staff to do. They're just not at the right time for the institution to actually have someone calling the students to ask, what can I help you to finish your application? So I think it's about budget at the end of the day. Now full disclosure at Bay of Plano, where I work that we do use R&L for our student surveys, for our yearly student service, the academics team definitely worked with your team, I suppose, on that kind of a thing. But I also do think that just using my example with the person in my team who's in charge of research, it didn't take much. In the sense that once you bookmark R&L and maybe a couple of more other sources, It's not something you have to spend eight hours a day, right? I mean, there's a research that comes in every month and you know that at least once a month somebody is presenting something. But the reason why I think it's very important and every team should do this. Every school should have one person You know, just kind of look at research is because this specific one for example that you have on mental health like when you look at page three of it. It's literally every single fear that a prospective student has when they come to school and as a as a marketer you're like, okay, well, what's my job? You know mental distribution and physical distribution. How do I do that? You know making sure all their fears are Eliminated making sure all the hopes and dreams are kind of matched in in the conversation and it's right there It's just like The key is right there page three everybody You have to be right and do you know any other business that is trying to sell something and is actually dismissing information that tells them how their customers are feeling. I can't imagine anyone would do that. So why would we do that? I mean it's just Yeah, so page three everybody this research will change your life Um, and you know and the funny thing is that then in the end you also kind of give like here are the things People are looking for here. So how do you do you kind of either eliminate alleviate or kind of mitigate these all of these things? Exactly Yeah, and you can do all of them or you can do you know, I'd want every month to your list, but there are They are very actionable steps in these in these In this research that I think every institution could implement some of them next week. Yeah Yeah, and a lot of them already have all those things Exactly. It's just a matter of you know targeting the content correctly You know to meet whatever that fear or need or question That's that's laying out exactly like um I I Of course it didn't surprise me to to hear from students that their own safety is something they think about when they're looking at colleges and Like every college is spent so much money on their safety programs and their security and So tell them tell them but don't wait until they enroll because there are some kids that may actually Never come to your door if they don't hear the information upfront like These are the things we're doing to keep you safe when you're on campus And these are the things you can do to stay safe while you are here And these are the things you can do to help your friends step-save So it's things that they want to hear way ahead of time that institutions already have So I'm curious and I was having this discussion with on another podcast on this safety issue, right? My understanding is and again, I don't I haven't Dived into these types of statistics that you know, we're we're safer now than we were you know 10 15 years ago and safer than we were you know 25 years ago, but it just seems to me like everybody just feels like That's the number one issue, you know safety. I mean, I don't know. Am I wrong? You're into statistics every day I don't have any comparative data to compare to what perspective students were thinking about 10 years ago And I but I can tell you that even though is num is not number one on the fear List for these students they are thinking about it and Is there it's For some of them is going to be a really pressing issue for some of them is going to be less of an issue Uh, but it's there. They're thinking about it. They're talking about it and Each institution needs to needs to own that story for them. They need to be very clear about safety statistics and Everything they're doing to keep the students safe while they're on campus. Um, because because students whether is Real or not the students are thinking about safety. So let's just put their minorities and just be upfront about it Yeah, speaking of priorities, you know in terms of uh, is that I think you uh, you had ranked priorities Um, uh, in terms of the importance one thing that really struck me on on that list was that 59% then again, this is not 80. This is not 90% 59% of high school students Basically said that that uh, they look at the school they choose whether it aligns with their political views and philosophy That to me was I don't want to say mind blowing because I get it, but that 60% close to 60% You know want to go to universities that Match how they feel when they're 15 16 That surprised me too. I don't think that it was going to be way less uh because we're talking about kids. Yeah, that's that's that's what I'm thinking but Yeah, I was talking about this with a friend who teaches um politics in in a college and He ditches uh, a first year seminar. So they're pretty close to the age of the students that we surveyed with Zimi in this study So I Wanted to triangulate this data with him. I was like Is this a lot like did I get this by chance? I mean, we're talking about 6000 students. So it's a really good Representative and he said no actually he said it didn't surprise him that it was um that it was a little more than half um Yeah, I think we we've Leaving a very polarized Society in the United States and I think That because down to kids so um They they are looking at that too Mm. Yeah, I think um, I think you're right. It's um and I you know of living in the US for 30 years now But I kind of progressively seen you know politics become more center stage, you know and this you know my party your party um, it kind of reminds me of What politics is where I come from which is really a formal entertainment, you know What did they say today? What are they gonna say? You know and um yeah, so but but it's but it's interesting to me because I wonder from a university standpoint right when you see that You know 60% of the people that are applying choose you Because they feel you align with their political views right or their political philosophy you kind of wonder What types of Environments different universities and up creating right um because you're more Hey, you know a certain type of student and then it becomes more siloed right from uh from um The laws of standpoint on you all are just standpoint and things like that But again, that's not we're not gonna solve that here. We're not gonna solve it today Oh One one last question is that that I that I like to ask everyone is uh what do you think is one thing that We're not talking about or we're not talking about enough in in higher education Um Well, this was it for me until last year um, so I sort of can check that off the list, you know We're going to continue this research by the way. We're already on the first round of the 2025 study um I think for me the next thing is Going to be to understand Why are Some kids Not going to college which I understand it's you know not everyone Wants to go to college and everyone needs to go to college But what are the motivations and how are they different when they are in high school like what are kids thinking their options are Um are they thinking about taking a year off and then going to a two-year institution are they thinking I don't know yet, but I think um like just taking Taking that is to like until now I've been serving kids that are college bound So I would love to just take that one step farther or backwards and talk to them before they say yes, I want to go to college. I I would love to To do a study where We're talking to all kids Whether they're going to college or not and just try to see How are they different what are they thinking about doing and ask We I mean we are in the And you know with everyone talks about the the demographic clip we are there already so how do we work with them to help them. It's certificates. It's said, you know, non-degree programs. It's said, job and training while they're working. What is it that they need and what are their goals? I think that's the next thing on my list. You're on to something about being able to learn more about the motivations to get into higher education, how you get that goal. I would love that. I would love to to help. I think the end of every research project needs to be, needs to be actionable, it needs to help institutions and at the end of the day is about helping students. Yeah. But I think that kind of research would be fascinating and understanding what differences are in terms of motivation and goals between first-generation students and continuing-generation students and then helping institutions take the necessary steps to help first-generation students and their families. It just would be super practical and very fulfilling for me. So we'll see if it happens. Awesome. Well, Raquel, thank you so much for being here and I'm hoping that your next research we can drop it here and kind of analyze it page by page for the rest of the list. Absolutely. I'll be reaching out very soon. Awesome. Thank you so much.