Under the Shadow of Abuse : Escaping a Toxic Parent and Finding Freedom with Serfine Okeyo

Welcome to the Jam Broberg Show, where we expose the truth about child sexual abuse, rape, assault, and trauma. Everything you hear on this show is for informational and educational purposes only. We do not dispense therapy or give legal advice. This show is not for children. The views expressed by our guests are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Jam Broberg Show or the Jam Broberg Foundation. I'm Jam Broberg. Let's get started. Thank you so much to my guest today for being here. This is a woman who has been through something so unique in the abuse world. And I just feel like this will be one of those episodes that is unlike any of the others that we have done. And so I want to just thank you, Surfing, for being here today. And if there's anything that we miss, I hope that you will circle me back around because I have so many questions for you. But you are currently, Surfing, OK, you, is your whole name. I hope I'm saying it correctly. And you are currently a student at Johns Hopkins University. I'm studying economic and I'm so thankful that Johns Hopkins, because I'm the student, I was able to go to the hospital and receive the nominal care. So interesting that it took you going to university with a very advanced in some ways, their understanding of the aftermath and the long term effects of abuse and trauma and being very trauma informed that your university hospital. Would be the place where you would find so much of your healing. So this is so interesting to me because often those who have suffered like you have don't know where to find the help for so many people who have been through extreme abuse and who are telling their stories that I've heard. They often don't know where to go to even find help and yet you going to Johns Hopkins University, you found the help right there at your university. Can you tell us how that happened? Yeah, basically my mom's always been very back and short about financial support. And so when it came to paying for college, she would frequently threaten to not pay if I didn't major in what she wanted just in general do what she wanted. She kind of saw me as an extension of herself rather than my own separate person. But I started working with case management when I became in danger of becoming homeless because I could no longer live with her. And they were able to connect me with more help at the counseling center. Health insurance is covered by school. I started medication finally after a whole childhood until I was 18. My mom prevented me from being on medication. She strongly, strongly discouraged therapy. And I was even in the wrong type of therapy because I really had no idea what I was dealing with. Despite having a mother who is very, very well versed in psychiatric illnesses, having to treat them, signs that somebody is declining. And she told me that I couldn't go to the hospital because I would embarrass the family. And nobody would ever hire me in a job and all these lives. When it comes to saving my life or not embarrassing the family name. And I think the decision is pretty clear. I had to save my life. Yeah, for you, the decision was to save your life and it happened at university, at their medical center. And you didn't even know the extent of what was going on. But you had endured systematic emotional physical abuse. I mean, systemic from your mother, you know, who worked in healthcare. Can you go back how, what you went through and how is that possible that the family name when we're having the stigma was more important to your mother who worked in healthcare. Who worked in the psychiatric care. Yeah, even though I was diagnosed as 14, I was briefly in boarding school. So I had the freedom to ask for help and not worry about my mom as much. But I was diagnosed with depression as early as 14 years old. And of course, she took me off the medicine as soon she found out that I was on it before it even had a chance to work. But I didn't really understand the how severe the abuse was because growing up, my mom always told me that I was ungrateful, that I was attention seeking, that I was basically just a difficult person. And not ill. And so I felt bad. I felt guilty. I felt like I was a problem, which was not the case. As I found out when I went to Johns Hopkins Hospital, I have always been ill and not just making it up. And with that comes very serious symptoms that are hard to ignore and not something that you think just kind of think past it or. Be strong, kind of brief, safe and brushing off. It doesn't work like that. You had clinical, chronic depression and you'd had it since you were a child. And you had been denied any kind of treatment, even when you were suicidal. I used to get severe nightmares too. I don't know if you know this, but there's actually medications with stop nightmares. So luckily I was put on it, but they would always do nightmares about my mom or something like related to ending my life. And that was distressing. It's hard to start the day already in such a dark place. Since we've separated though, I've been so stable, so emotionally prosperous and supported by my dad because she kept me away from all of my life. And lied about him. I'm not the only victim of my mom's views and lies. She said that my dad hit her, which never happened. She said he wasn't saying child support. So that's kind of how I was isolated and nobody was really there to speak out about what was happening or fight for me. So when you were suicidal, like in the beginning of having that suicide and that ideation happening, would you have everybody that you tried to reach out to or talk to in order to kind of maybe share a little bit or was there just no one because you were too young or moms keeping you away from dad with made up stories. She's keeping you away from anybody who might give you any medication because she doesn't want you to have that. She's accusing you of just being an attention seeker. You know, all those things, was there anybody in your life that you could reach out to? I almost reached out to the elementary school guidance counselor, but because my mom would constantly threaten to get rid of me and send me away to one of those schools for trouble teams. And because she told me I would never survive foster care and told me it was terrible, like worse than whatever I was going through. I was frozen in fear. So I didn't tell anybody. I remember staring at my closet and, you know, the shelf where you hang up close on and imagining is it could hold my weight. Like I was suicidal and I didn't tell anyone for a long one and it wasn't until I ran away from home and had an attempt my first and last attempt that people really started taking seriously. Like when my brother found out he cried, but when my mom found out she didn't. She showed no motion. She also did cry when my grandmother passed away and my grandmother was an angel. So most of my families in Kenya in Kenya. Okay. Yeah. So we were born here, but most of your families back in Kenya. So there wasn't family around to really notice maybe or maybe not. You know, with many families, they're just not educated enough to notice the signs that are truly there, but they can be very subtle because often like you, you kind of hid and you were hidden away from the rest of the world. And even an elementary school teacher that might have noticed if she had asked your mom a question, she would have gotten a whole different story than the truth. So working back on that, I mean, I know when your silence ended, that was when you came forward about your your experience, but also about the abuse that you witnessed towards a disabled patient. Yeah, you tell us that story because this is something I don't think we've ever had a guest. talk about this kind of a trauma. I just want to add real quickly. My mother will not be abusive or behave in a malicious way towards someone if they're not vulnerable or mentally ill or physically and mentally handicapped like this patient. And also when I went to the hospital during my many hospitalizations at Johns Hopkins, we had family meetings and they would ask her about my childhood and the abuse and she would say I had a distorted reality. She's very good at spinning the story and she knows how to play the game. But this patient, my mom had her during agency. So she was living in the home 24/7 and she was supposed to be under my mom's care. And she was being paid very well to look after her to give her medication, you know, help her with her physical therapy. Just kind of make sure that our quality life is nice a bit more normal than like if you've come or something. We actually have home security, but it's at the time we had a different company and she switched it. I don't know if she switched it because she realized what was caught on camera. But it was caught on camera. My mom abused this patient several times. And how we abuse this patient help is it on the head. And she didn't have much hair. So it was quite like brutal. Also verbally very condescending, telling her to shut up, don't talk, leave me alone because she would sleep for her other job. So she wasn't looking after her 24/7. She was mostly leaving her undetected. And that's why she had this security camera. This patient was a huge fall risk and fell on several occasions and she had bruises and all that. But in addition to that, she would also give her extra medication so that she was sleepy and not bother her. And I'm on some of those heavy duty medications that this patient was on. You shouldn't mess with that stuff. It can very easily mess with your organs, especially your liver, and front side of organ failure. So I do really, really feel awful. Nobody spoke up about what was going on. My brother knew what was happening. Your brother did know what was happening? Yeah. He was in the hole at this point also. He practically lived in the home. He goes there every weekend. The guy has laundry and he goes, "Get food that she cooks for him." And so I believe it was a sort of loyalty. Like, "I do this for you. You keep my secret." But I never had that kind of loyalty to keep my mother's secrets and wrongdoings from the public because she was abusing me. And she was actively holding me back from graduating school on time. I strategically provoking me, causing me to spiral. She told me that she didn't think I could do it. I could succeed here at Johns Hopkins, which is not true because I brought in here on my own about her health at all. And what are you studying there? Because I think this is awesome. I'm studying economics and I'm really excited about the potential opportunities after graduation. I might work in finance. I might work with the UN if I can. How would be exciting about it? Yeah. I think that would be an amazing job. That would be incredible. Well, you certainly have an international spirit of value for sure. And so how going back to the story with the disabled patient who was in your mother's care, supposedly full-time 127 would she just hit her with her hands on her head repeatedly and then what how did she I mean what happened? Who caught it on tape? Did anybody come to the rescuer? Did this person finally just die? So no, nobody ever came to the rescue. She just declined until she had to be taken to the hospital and then she was in the ICU and then she passed away. I believe briefly before the hospital though she would move to like a critical care like group home like where they're able to provide more advanced health care than my mother could provide. But yeah, I mean for Francis, we really had no one to fight for her. Hopefully I can get justice for her. There's an ongoing police investigation. The video that was captured in her using the patient. Just one of the many because it happened over a course of like two years. But I remember this one instance was so severe that even after I went down to the basement and it continued, I could hear it. And my PTSD was triggered and I didn't leave the basement. I didn't eat all day because I was just stopped remembering what it used to be like when I was the person who was being hit or demeaned or emotionally abused. So I messaged my therapist and that's how I have the date that had happened because I asked her for help. I was like, I don't know how to deal with this. I need to leave immediately. This is just not a good place to be. And it's sad because after I was homeless for a year, my mom wrote apologies for a whole year through email. I have to apologize saying asking to come back home that she would change and she'd never change. She seemed to have changed for a little bit, but she never did. And that's kind of helped me heal because I realized that she has deep, deep issues. Like it's not about me. It's about her and whatever is wrong with her. Do you know anything that brought her life before you were her child and in the world? Do you know anything that might make it make a little bit of sense about why she was this way? Well, she's a middle child of a family of 14 children. So that's a lot. And then my grandfather, according to her, and she lies about a lot. So I don't know what's true and what's not. But according to her, my grandfather was very, very, very strict, almost like a pirate. And he kind of had to be for to have 14 children, keep them all in order. But my grandmother was loving and she'd always come and love on her children and make sure they were okay and give them extra money. And that's how she treated me. She was beyond beautiful. It was unconditional love. But her relationship with her siblings was good. And she always says that to her family is the most important thing. I don't think it's our family like this new family she created. But the family she was born into is the most important thing to her. And I think that's what she spend the majority of her finances on. Instead of helping me get established and get through college, she would send money back home because she would be held in very high esteem as, you know, the American sibling, the only sibling to make it to America. But yeah, I mean, when I talk to my dad, hanging culture is very, very, very not okay with the parent taking their child court. I mean, there was no attempt for even mediation. I'm not concerned because what's in the documents are lies and I have evidence to prove it's a confery. But it's just sad because she also got her husband of six months, who she's known for less than a year, to file a PFA protection from abuse against me. And he listed the abuse as sharing the Facebook posts with him. And I was trying to warn him about my mother, what she's like, and that he should be concerned about this woman that he just married that he barely knows. Yeah, I'm pretty confident a judge will be very reasonable and see that I've never even been a fight. I'm not a threat to anyone just because I'm mentally ill. A mutual no contact order is a thing. And that's fine. She has all my belongings that I still haven't tried to go back and get them. Honestly, they can all disappear. In my ideal world, I would never see or hear from her again. And this is really a protection for you and in your mental health and your recovery and all the things that you have to worry about because sometimes we just cannot have the abuser, the toxic person. They just can't be a part of our life. It doesn't work. And I find that so interesting that her, I guess, new husband or however long she's now been with this person would go so far as to put those kind of protective orders in place against you. That's just so disheartening and sad. What is your father, your biological father? What does he have to say or do in this situation with you? So he has been beyond supportive. When I have the case review from the PFA where they just meet you and they ask you, do you consent to this or do you want to go to court and challenge it? Which of course I wouldn't consent to something that alleges my characters completely what it's not. I'm not 100% certain but I also believe that it would show up on a background check and so all my hard work at Johns Hopkins would be for nothing. I would never be able to get a job which is clearly her intentions. But my father was on the phone with me after the first case review and then the other one. The person never showed up for the second case review and it got postponed. So I'm not sure if she heard me bring up Francis and the evidence and whatever else I talked about in the first case review and she got scared. This is the disabled woman that died eventually. Yes, this is the patient. But there's a there's an active police investigation. I made sure to protect myself open and adult protective services case because I am a vulnerable adult under the state of Maryland law. And yeah, I'm definitely trying to make sure that I'm protected and that her legal retaliation because I filed charges criminal charges against her two days before she filed the case. Hopefully they see her one. Yeah, that was really hard and I you know I don't know that we've ever talked about how you get that and if every state has this or every you know how you get the diagnosis or the the vulnerable adult classification. How do you how do you apply for that so that you will have some you know rights or some kind of checks and balances in place to make sure that you are protected from retaliation and and I'm sure you've had I mean you've already had retaliation so to speak from her and the the new husband that's you know from what they filed but also you know you lived in fear you were physically and emotionally abused all your childhood so you know there's got to be some fear and I'm sure legal attempts that they're making to silence you that's what they're doing right now you know how do you get that classification as a vulnerable adult I don't think there's any sort of past or anything there's just a list of like qualifications and the first one is like trouble taking care of yourself and keeping up with daily tasks especially when I'm spiraling or declining and about to need to go to the hospital it becomes really hard to do basic things like take care of myself the laundry goes down the trash piles of the teeth don't get brushed I recently went to the dentist and she could tell I had depression from it which is a crazy but she gave me prescription strength to face I'm feeling better now thanks to my dad's support it really has made a world of the difference I'm brushing and blossing I mean I have a dog a service animal I can always take care of him no matter what get him food take him out and when I'm doing the work that's kind of the limit of what I can do so if I wasn't going to therapy twice a week and an intensive outpatient program and had a case manager with school was working with occupational therapy which specializes in that kind of thing like making schedules shower and self-care self-maintenance I would not be allowed today I would not survive I have an immense amount of support that goes into everything and I'm so grateful for it and it is hard maintaining health taking all these medications all the time no matter what exercise and getting sun just like basic daily upbeat because of the pressure makes you want to just hide in your bed the whole day it makes you not see a point to life or a future worth living and that's changing for me now that my mom is out of my life I see it as a fresh start I'm taking care of myself more and enjoying it and remembering you know the good parts about life because under the shadow of abuse it's very easy to forget all the good thing yeah it's hard to see isn't it when when that of you kind of a constant and and you it's hard to see the light at all you know and I I think there's also like a physical like people sometimes that I've spoken with and and even myself at one point in my life where I needed some medication for depression because as I described it to this doctor that I was talking to I'm like it feels like there's this concrete block around my head like it's shadowy like everything looks great and it feels heavy I can't understand it and I don't feel right and that's you know basically what he said and I went on I don't know pro's act or something and for me it was just literally reformulating you know the serotonin and the feel good hormones I didn't have clinical depression it wasn't going to go you know long term but I needed something for a period of time and so I look back at everything that you were going through as a as a child and you're not that old now and the fact that you're telling your story is just so encouraging to me because you know when you when you survived you know all through your childhood the whole time you know this this emotional physical medical abuse by your by your mother who's a licensed psychiatric nurse right about her wanting to abuse the vulnerable because you said she wouldn't abuse you if you weren't vulnerable exactly abuse so she picked the easiest part yet her child this disabled person that was in her care and I find that so so sad like what is it that makes a person want to harm those that are already vulnerable that are that are children that are disabled but the abuse of the disabled is like you know if it's four out of ten women that are abused in general it's like eight out of ten if they're disabled or mentally disabled you know it's just a terrible statistic by people like advantage of the vulnerable I just feel so sad about that and so upset I'm really hoping that the Maryland Delaware and Pennsylvania Board of Wicens thing to the utmost best thorough investigation into her and prevent her from abusing any more people because she's already not working in Delaware where the active police investigation is and the agency is aware because you know there'd be problems she's trying to avoid those problems yeah I remember growing up and I would ask my mom all the time if she was depressed and she would say no and I would be so confused not only because I was depressed but because I saw that if I was my mom and I lived her life I would be miserable and so I think it comes from a deep-seated misery with oneself and one's own life and then you take it out on other people yeah but I always showed my mom love I took her on spa trips I took her the her first concerts I would do her makeup her hair I would dress her up the reason why she has so many of my closures because what mine was hurt I showed her love and that's what made it so confusing for me and why I really internalized it for so many years because I did everything I could to earn her love it wasn't me like I did my best right sometimes you cannot burn love love yeah she's incapable is what it sounds like to me she's incapable yeah probably because of some deep-seated something that happened to her and she's miserable and she just takes it out on the on the most vulnerable people which is just so sad I often listen to stories that abuse was by a parent and I just feel so so sorry and sad because that that those parent relationships are like so important you know to be neglected or you know abused and harmed in any kind of physical emotional sexual way is just like the greatest betrayal safety is no more you know it's like now nothing in the world is safe because this is the person that's supposed to keep you safe keep you well keep you growing and healthy and they don't and I can just see like the PTSD that you have talked about a little bit that you have experienced from is it have you been diagnosed with C PTSD the complex PTSD yes complex and let me tell you safety is our requirement for every community you have it messes you up developmentally when you don't have it but my therapist is amazing and I'm able to learn what I should have been taught by my parents. Right. Growing up and regulating my emotions, do the work, work on myself, become a better person and heal at the same time. Although I do feel slightly behind my peers because I've been in college for almost a decade now, although I've taken time all to go on medical read hospitalization, at least I look young. Yeah, so I can kind of blend in. You do look young and so that's surprising that you've been in school, you know, at the university for 10 years, but for you and again, for those that have not had safety to establish safety to establish safety with a therapist or other practitioners that might be helping you in your recovery and dealing with your complex PTSD, all of the triggers that come around. Safety is truly, like you said, it's a basic human need and when it doesn't exist, it messes with you in extreme and extraordinary ways. Yes. You're basically in an intensive outpatient care while you're attending Johns Hopkins University. Yeah, that's amazing. Thank you. It's good though because it keeps me from being isolated and that's where the trouble comes in. I like being busy, distracted, focusing on the outward most of the time and then you know, when it's there and we can focus on the inward. Yeah, I absolutely refuse to let her twist in their div and continue to lie about me. Well, yeah, you're strong. It's a cool day. It is insulting. And you know what else? It's totally wrong and so many people your age and yes, you look young, but I'm assuming you're probably in your 20s and you pressed criminal charges against your mother, your abuser. And then you've already faced this legal retaliation through this false PFA order. Multiple PFA orders, correct? Yes. Yeah, and that's a lot for any person to do and deal with. And then you witnessed the abuse, you know, that overmedicated disabled patient who died, you know, and now you're advocating for accountability and justice for her. You know, even though she's deceased, you're an amazing human being in Kierg. All along this path in your 20s. Now see if I could sound that cry to all the 20 some things, all those 20 year olds who have been through abuse in their childhood or tween hood, teen hood, young adulthood. If you could just know that it point to mess with you as you get older, if you don't handle it, if you don't get your needs met in a different way, if you don't find safety, you'll marry someone that's unsafe. Yeah. That's what you used to. You'll end up in unsafe situations all the time that could be terrible, you know, for you. You might start self-medicating, you know, with drugs or alcohol. These are the kinds of things that happen when our abuse is not dealt with. And on top of that, you had depression, you had mental illness that no one was addressing or talking about. You were forbidden to take your medication. So you rebuilding all of this right now in your 20s gives me such hope, such hope that this generation, your generation, is going to change the stigma, change the stigma around abuse while you are rebuilding your identity, your beauty, your independence, going to school. Wow, you're completely redefining survival, being a survivor. I like to think of it as instead of ending my life, there's another way to start over, right? Because we don't know what happens after death, you know, maybe there's nothing, maybe there's heaven, maybe there's hell, maybe there's reincarnation, it's a gamble. But I know that I can separate myself from her, make it so that she's out of my life for good, filled my own family of choice, write a memoir for sure, because I've been through some crazy stuff and such a short amount of time. And hopefully help other people be carried, it gets better, is not inspiring. It's at least for me, it wasn't inspiring, but I can defeat this. I'm not going to let her win. There are good people out there. I've been reached out to by so many, just share hardly people that is what inspires me. And I don't have to be punished or face retaliation simply because of personal life choices or the way I choose to spend my time or what hobbies I do or what job I want. There's a huge amount of freedom in that separation. I just think that it just brings tears to my eyes and my voice because, you know, that's a hard separation. For me, my mother was one of the most well-balanced, loving, unconditional, never-judgmental. She was so key to my being able to be those things because she won. It gave me an example. It gave me something I wanted to be like her. And for you to say that with such conviction, it just speaks to your strength and it speaks to so many others who are survivors and they really, they may have to divorce themselves from some of the most important relationships and build their own family. You said that. They're chosen family. And there are people that will come into their life to be that chosen family. And it may not look exactly like what you always wanted with the little picket fence and the whatever. But it will give you and can give you joy, you know. I have one word of advice for anyone who's really desperate has no idea what to do and could use a potentially life-changing moment. Go to your nearest nursing home and ask to visit the person who has not been visited in the longest. At head and sea, all the stories you'll hear, the joy you'll bring to their eyes. Like, there's so much beauty and human connection and it doesn't have to be by blood and that's what keeps me going. I've been so lucky and so blessed to be in the presence of some really beautiful people. And you chose to go there and do that. You chose them, the one that didn't have a visitor that didn't have anybody to talk to. That's just so much like my dad. I feel him right here in the room going, she's got her right. You want to be happy, you want to find joy, my father and his twin brother. They always were visiting the the shut-ins, whether they were at home or in a nursing home. Many of my dad was a florist and he'd take a little posee, a little flower, a little something and just visit the ones who didn't have the visitors and or the ones that who were shut into their homes basically that had no family, you know, no children or whatever. We take Sunday dinner over to a man named Torgi and Torgi had no one, you know, and his house looked very different from my house. It was, you know, very sparse and we'd always see him as we'd drive up and he would be smoking his cigarette on the front porch and my family nobody smoked and it was very different from my own home and at first I was scared but then that we did it consistently, we learned the walk to our gate and with worries and I just think you're giving people the key to a happy life by saying that. There is a key there and that is that when you want to reclaim your sense of family, your sense of belonging, do it by finding somebody who doesn't have one. That's beautiful and then you're writing. Right now you are you're reclaiming your whole, I always say to people, you can have a happy childhood at any age, even if you're 60, let's get this abuse thing figured out, this mental health thing figured out and then you can be free like a little kid having your happy child. So tell me about the process of the writing and how that's affecting your reclamation of your life and your childhood. Doing it a little bit by little just confirmed my choice. So like I'm remembering things that I hadn't thought about in a long time and I'm not sure if you're familiar with inner child work but it's often used in therapy and just imagine yourself as like a younger child. and just like an innocent life, like new to the world, every child deserves safety, love, to be their parents priority, to be able to feel a hopeful and not constantly disappointed or attacked, and so it definitely helps we have more compassion towards myself. And other Beatles too, just always remembering that everybody's been there something, and to just be a little bit more kinder to people 'cause you never know what they're going through. - That's beautiful. I know that you are creative. You had said that earlier, and you said something about strategic self-expression. Tell me what that means. - So, coping mechanisms are a huge thing for me. My favorite one used to be like taking a bath with a bath bomb, but now I just have a shower. I live on campus again. But strategic self-expression, I'm very, very artistic. And not only do I play the viola, I make pottery, I'm very into designing, like in another life I'd be an interior designer, like I did my room. - I know, I was just gonna say, look at your walls of your room. And is this, this is on campus, housing? - Yeah. - It's so beautifully with a lot and the beautiful, are they butterflies or hearts? - Both. - These are hearts, partly hard, regular hard, butterfly, 3D butterflies. - I love them. - I find so much joy and beauty, whether it's nature, I love doing my nails, just making sure that I present myself in dress and appear as the best version of myself. - Does it help me feel better? - Yeah, it's also just helped me a lot to be active and eating right. People don't emphasize this enough, but food really can impact your mental health. - Yes. - And I found that getting enough vitamins and all of that has helped immensely. - But strategic self-expression, I like writing poetry, so parts of my memoir will be in poetry and like, you know, describing how I feel, in therapy and really good at giving insight into the way my mind works. And like, one example I like to share is like, sometimes the depression feels like being in a room, a dark room with a TV and one of those commercials where all the dogs that are about to be euthanized is playing and then that really sad song in the arms of an angel is on her feet and you have no remote. You can't change the G and hook, you're just stuck in that headspace. So like, I like to describe myself, use language to help others relate to me. And so hopefully I'm able to do that successfully in my memoir and also help give hope to those who have parents from other cultures, who are living in a different culture because in Pengha, Medjolilness is not really a thing and that may have contributed to why, for over 10 years, I was told I wasn't safe. There's a community to be built and there's people who are willing to help. It just can be difficult to find them sometimes. - But you are doing it. You are building something new for yourself. You know, as you're claiming and reclaiming, you know, maybe things lost or that were not available to you and your childhood, you're now creating it. You know, you're building the story. You are the writer and the author. - Yeah, and you know that now. - Yeah. - Two half sisters. - Okay. - Yeah, I'm very excited. You know, as I grow close to my dad and he visited me in the hospital in January and we're still getting close after a whole lifetime of being wide to and separated. But I'm so excited. You know, that's a whole new family. It's beautiful and I'm over the idea. - Oh, that's so wonderful. - So how do you feel grounded? Well, you're still fighting for justice. Is this, are these the things that keep you grounded? Because sometimes people get so wrapped up in fighting for the justice and the, you know, that it can consume your life, but you seem very grounded. How do you do that? - So my dog is a big one. - Your diary or your dog? - My dog, my dog. - Your dog? - Yes. (laughs) - He's just, he's so playful. He brings out that inner child in me. Just getting to be an age that I never really got to be because when I was typical college age, I was taking time off here and there. For a brief moment, I would even live in New York and I wasn't around people my age. So getting to slow down and really enjoy my college experience is such a blessing. Even though it may appear like I've lost time or I'm behind, I like to think of it as time slowed down and I get to really be present in the moment and not rush myself or put too much pressure on myself because everyone's timing is different. Another thing that really grants me is my desire to travel. So I have hopes for financial security independence, of course, but I also wanna see other cultures, other places, I never got to travel, or go on vacation unless I was going to come to family. So it's gonna be a huge opportunity to step outside of that. And I think it'll also open up my perspective and making even more helpful, just connecting with other people from all parts of the club. - Yeah, I think that human connection, you've hit it on the head several times and it's a proven fact that if you want to heal from complex trauma, from abuse, from those sorts of things that you must find that one of the, you know, there's, I don't know, eight, 10, 12 different things that I've read through that I've had therapists on and explained why and all of them, that human connection, you cannot complete your healing process without finding human connection, a connection with another living person. And on your phone or your social media, it doesn't really count. So it does, it can help, it can also harm. So really seeking that out and I just loved your idea, go to a nursing home and find the person or persons who nobody visits and listen to their stories. What a connection for them and for you. It's so beautiful, I love that. Last question for me is if you could tell the rest of the world something that maybe you think a lot of people don't understand about survivors who have disabilities. You know, about what that is like or what to look for something that they may not know that for no, what would that be? - I would emphasize that it does not look the same for everyone. So the way that I was raised and having to be silent for so long, when I would cry, I would get yelled at. Like if I showed the wrong emotions, I learned to appear put together and normal and healthy all the time. Even when I was in the hospital, I could do not, one time I went like a whole week without showering and nobody knew because I was still like changing my clothes, I was still making sure I didn't smell, like I was putting on doing it. I would just show the press and take care of myself. I eventually got better. It was just like when I first got to the hospital. - And did you go there? - How did you wear suicidal or because-- - Suicide? - Okay, that's why you were there. That's what I thought, okay. - Yeah. - Go ahead. - Suicide, display, being suicidal, suicide scares me a lot. And so if I can get help, I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna go to the hospital. The last thing I want anyone to ever say about me is that I didn't try. I didn't fight. I fight every single day. And I don't intend to give up. So yeah, but yeah, it doesn't look the same for everyone. I am on medication that people take and they wouldn't be able to go to school like Johns Hopkins. Every brain is different. I've been on medication. He needs severe allergic reactions, like involuntary motor movements. This stuff is no joke. And my dad actually works. and manufacturing medications. We don't exactly know the long-term effects of all this stuff, but it's a matter of keeping someone alive. So I think a lot of people get angry when someone's suicidal or they think that they're using mental illness as an excuse, but I think a little empathy and placing yourself for someone else's shoes and realizing that none of this has asked to be sheer. Some of us are blessed enough that experiencing life experiences that make us feel like life is a gift, but that's still something I'm working on believing. I do believe life is full of surprises, beautiful surprises, but I have to work on maintaining a little bit of life. And my dad has been the supporter of that. But yeah, be kind to those who might be mentally ill. Sometimes it's temporary even. Sometimes you end recover. Sometimes you can't or you won't, but you shouldn't feel any less than somebody without a mental illness because you didn't ask for it. Right, absolutely. And I think that people that have never felt maybe, you know, real serious depression, often can be very glib or unsympathetic, you know? And I think when we have an experience, something like what you have, we tend to go to, well, we just want to fix somebody. And this is the easiest answer. And it's not an easy answer to just really look at a person and allow them to be where they are. And like you said, for some people, it's never going to be fixed. You're going to need medication, you know? To stay alive. And you have to work on your will to live every day. Even though you see the beautiful, you know, you see the beautiful and you see you have tons of tools and you're using them. You know, a lot of people have tools that they don't use. And then they do fall into a depression where they just almost can't get out of it. You know, where it's like, what is the purpose? Why say here? You know, I think I'll just go now, you know? And that happens. So I just love your Instagram handle because I think it's a sprung. It is where you are in some way. So Instagram @the@signdraining, drag and fly. But the L in fly is a one. And it reminds me that we all are the one. You know, you are as important as the next person. And that my desire to help the whole world heal from, you know, to trauma and their tragedies and their terrible abuse, it's just one person at a time. And it's one person, one conversation, and makes a difference for the one. Like you described for that one person in that nursing home. And that one person who can do that for you. And for you to do that for me today on this podcast. And for the many ones that are listening, you know, you're not alone. It's a domino. It is a domino effect. And yet those dominoes go down one at a time. And so we're lifting each other up one story at a time, one person at a time, and you're just such an inspiration. I just, I just appreciate you so much sharing your story and being so honest about where you are and who you are and how you got here and what you're doing to create your, your chosen family. I want to be one of those chosen family members. Okay. Thank you. Yes. The more the merrier. Right? Right? Okay. So from homeless. From abuse to here you are. John Hopkins University. And we're doing well. And you're choosing the things. You make sure that you stay. Healthy. I want you to. We appreciate you being here, surfing. And if there's anything that we can ever do again, to keep these stories going out and to keep people knowing they're not alone, you've totally done that today. I can't wait to meet you on the sunny or side of the street someday in person. And for anyone who's need support from another survivor, my inbox is open. Oh, your inbox is always open. I love it. We need so many of you. Okay. But they got what it is. That'll be in the show notes as well if you forgot. But thank you so much, surfing for being here today. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. And that's a wrap for today's episode. Thank you for sharing this journey with me today. If you're enjoying the podcast, please take a couple of minutes to rate and review the show. This really helps to spread the word. And if you know someone who would benefit from listening to our show, please do me a favor and share one of our episodes with them. I want every survivor to know that they are not alone and that there is help available. Links to my website, our foundation, the new book, our online community, Thrive Ivers, a newsletter can be found in the show notes. All of my contact info is there as well. This year, my number one focus is on sharing our stories. This is so important because it's the launching pad to our healing journey. And it inspires the survivor who is still suffering in silence. I don't want anyone to suffer alone anymore. So please reach out. I want to hear from you. Until next time, my friends, this is Mama Jan signing off over and out on two.