Uncomfortable Relationship Truths

[MUSIC PLAYING] Shameless media. This episode of "Everybody Has a Secret" is brought to you by the Testaments on Disney+. A rebellious new story set in the world of Gilead as the next generation find their way. Stream it now on Disney+. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] Hello! Welcome back to "Everybody Has a Secret." My name is Charlotte White and hired my gorgeous co-host Annabelle Leigh. Hello! And hello, producer Rooh. Hello. Hello, you guys. Feeling really peppy today. Yes, so excited. With what coffee's on deck? That's right. But first off, I'd love to address something with you both. Oh, I'm putting my laptop down for this. OK, drama immediately. So last Thursday, you will both recall that we went out for burgers. Oh my god, delicious burgers. We saw-- we had the privilege of seeing a little preview of Louis Hanson's show. Oh, delicious, sure. And then afterwards, we went out for delicious burgers. Yum, yum, yum. And, you know, Ruby and I were just talking about the pits and perils of dating these days. And I got my dating app up. I think I said get it up. Yeah, Ruby, get it up. And I was like, what are we dealing with here? Because me and Ruby were just complaining the whole time. As we do. And she was like, what are we actually working with here? Annabel takes my phone and she starts, well, you actually like, can I just-- can I like, Matt, you've got good people in here. Can I just match? Yeah. And I was like, honestly, fuck it. Like, I'm at that point now. I just like, go on, cupid. Find me a girlfriend. And I'm also like so annoying with this stuff. And I don't want to be something just comes over me. No, but I loved it. Because someone has to be energetic. And so Annabel was looking through my likes. And then Ruby was talking about her situations. It's like-- And we were waiting for our burgers anyway. It was such a treat. I thank you both. No, thank you, belly. But then I kind of like dissociated and just stared into the restaurant as Annabel was giggling. And then Ruby got involved. And they were like typing things out. And so anyway, long story short, Annabel matched with one, two, three, four, five. Because you have six amazing women in there. Yeah. And I get it. I get it. And I know again that I'm annoying. Because I do understand how horrible it is on the app sometimes. But I was in there like, oh my god. She's so funny. She's so beautiful. Yeah. No, no, no. And I agree with both of you. I do agree. But it's more the-- I like to like plan it out. Planch plan. Planch man. Well, anyway. And so Annabel did not plan it out. Let's guess. OK, out of six matches, how many people do you think they'd message me? After I had messaged them, you messaged three out of the six. OK, the others you just matched with. I think all of them responded. Or zero, it was a zero. It was one. And as of last night, it was two. Oh, OK. We're back, baby. That's a great show. Not everyone will, you know, connect with-- I think it's a specific kind of-- With your humor. It's a specific kind of humor that I am putting out into the world. No, no, no. And that's important. That's important. Not your humor, though. But I just wanted to see if you-- It's not not my humor. Like, you just messaged this one girl saying, no, exactly. Did I? Yeah, because she lacked my photo. And then you went, no, exactly. Perfect. And then-- Isn't that the truth, Thorent? And then there was one other girl on her dating profile. It was how to pronounce my name. And it says, wife. And her name does not sound like wife. And Annabel messages and she goes, wife, I wasn't it? [LAUGHS] OK, but I love this. I love it. I love it. This is the thing. When I was on dating apps, my profile was so cringe. No, yours was cute. But I needed people to know that it was my humor. It was very humane. It could kind of be that way sometimes. And your humor is not as cringe, but you enjoy my humor, right? Totally, totally. So I'm trying to set you up for that. I know. I'm so excited. Also, guys, let your friends in long-term relationship flex their muscles. Let them think they still have it when they don't. No, it's really annoying. But anyway, she replied and she goes, close enough. Did you have a nice Easter? See? And are you chatting? No, I haven't responded. Well, because it didn't come from me. The lives of match didn't come from me. So I'm like, I'm not. Anyway, whatever we can talk more about this later. Just give wife a chance. I'll give wife a chance. All right, I'll give wife a chance. But anyway, just had to air you both out for that one. Yeah, no. And speaking of crushes, did you guys know that according to the cut this week, it's Crush Week? It's Crush Week. I didn't see this. OK, so we all know how debilitating and all-consuming it feels to develop a crush. I love it. Like, shot of adrenaline every day. So today, we're hearing from the Shushi community who have fallen head over heels and how they coped. So fun. Maybe we'll hear from Wifi. Yeah, oh, stop it. Yeah, you never know. But first, a quick word from today's sponsor. Shushi's picture this. You're just chilling. Watching a TV show, minding your own business and suddenly your five episodes deep and emotionally attached to the main character, you met early that day. We get it. We love it. And we have your new show. It's called The Testaments. And it's a bit of a side quest of Handmaid's Tale. But you don't need to have seen Handmaid's Tale to understand what's going on. So we find ourselves back in Gilead, but it's a completely fresh story set 15 years later as the next generation are finding their feet. The cast is incredible. Think Chase Infinity, who was the lead actress in the Oscar award-winning movie One Battle After Another. Although you'll see some familiar faces like Art Lydia, this one is really all about the younger characters, so it feels very fresh, rebellious and hopeful. Shushi's, if you don't want to be left out of the work combos, you can't miss this one. Stream The Testaments on Disney Plus. And a huge thank you to Disney Plus for making this episode of Everybody Has a Secret possible. OK, belly, you're reading the first crush submission, and I'll read the next one before we dive into a more juicier secret. Ooh, that right, Bruce. Yep, that's right. I'm so excited to hear this. OK, just clarifying for all, I haven't read this yet. So I'm reading it in real time. Yeah, neither of us. OK, this one reads, "Hi, E. Hasgirlies. I've developed a crush on my hot neighbor, Oh, the boy next door, the girl next door." We'll find out. Oh my god, too. I own my apartment, and over time, I've gotten friendly with the neighbors really well. But there's a single, very attractive man who lives a few doors down for me that I've slowly developed a crush on. He's smart, he's outgoing, we have similar views, and we've even got a few mutual friends. Oh, interesting. Oh, interesting, but a bit dangerous. Danger. It seems like we'd be compatible, and we've even had some of the people in our apartment block make jokes about us dating, too. Uh-oh. I'm so excited. I need your support, because the crush has gotten to the point where I'm stalking him on social media, and sometimes planning times to bump into him, so we can catch up. I'm not super proud to admit this, but last week, his mum caught me having a peek over my balcony. (laughing) His mum. Yeah, I don't know what she was doing there. She was doing that. (laughing) Although the issue is, I have a boyfriend. Oh, that is an issue. Okay. I plan to move into his place soon, which means I'll be moving out of my apartment. When I told my neighbor that I would be leaving, he seemed sad, but suggested we still keep in contact. Mm. Question mark. Don't get me wrong, I love my boyfriend. I'm super secure in our relationship, and I think he could be the one. Engagement and marriage is on the cards once I settle into his home. But I'm flat. I look he don't want to move out now. I see my neighbor almost every single day, and I will miss that. How do I de-escalate these feelings? I cannot believe in my life. I have managed to meet the love of my life and catch feelings for my neighbor. Please help a girl out. Where do we begin? Deep breaths. Where should we begin? Like actually where should we begin? Also, loved her structure there, the twist. Yeah. She has a boyfriend, I was like, fuck. Yeah. What's everyone's like? Gut instinct here. My gut twisted and turned along with this secret. Initially I was so fun, obviously. Then when she had a boyfriend, and then when she said, I'll miss him when I leave. I was like, oh, has this crush gone a bit too far? Would love to know if boyfriend isn't yet. This person's boyfriend is aware of neighbor, is a bit suspicious if he doesn't like it. Well, because the cut that we were talking about at the top of the episode, how they're dropping pieces every day, is it? Yeah, this week about crushes. This is the right crush. One of them I read was titled, "The Secret to a Great Marriage" "Crushes on Other People" written by E.J. Dixon and we'll put a link to this in the show notes. Yes, I read this too. Okay, great. And I'm pretty sure the whole thesis of the piece was that it's okay to have crushes on other people with their inner relationship, if any. If any of you tell. Oh, I got it! It's something it's healthy, yep. Yes, I think the point of that article was to say that crushes can be kind of childlike and silly. Obviously, if you don't act on it, it's just sort of a fun thing that happens on the side that keeps yourself interested without crossing the boundaries and disrespecting your partner. Do you guys agree with that? I agree with the fact that it's like whole thesis that that article was like, external attraction doesn't switch off just because you're in a long-term relationship. So being open and honest about that and even like kind of gamifying it a bit or like turning it into an energy that can just redirect back into your relationship as opposed to like pushing outside of it is a good thing. Yeah. So like I don't necessarily agree. It sounds scary. It sounds like. No, you go because I can't. I don't know. No, no, I'm still kind of formulating my opinion here. I don't know if you guys have. have we spoken about this on A house before? It's kind of like the point in between where someone would decide to cheat. You know what I mean? Yes. It's like in theory I understand the point. Like it would be silly of us to ignore the fact that people are attracted to, you know, randoms they say on the street or whatever. Yeah. You know, I watch a movie and I'm like, oh, you know, Rangol's things hot in Project Hell or it's just what I watch the other day. Yeah, he's hot and silly and whatever. Do you recommend? I do recommend. And how girls don't care, okay, guys. Yeah, exactly. Sorry, continue your thoughts. But then I think maybe do you think duration plays a role or like how often you're seeing this person and the kinds of interactions you're having? Because I remember, I don't know if this is rude to expose on the podcast, but I used to go to a gym ages ago. And I randomly made friends with a lot of the people there. And one of the women who I met and would like, you know, see once a week, I guess, would always talk about how attractive the other guys in like the little social circle we'd created were. But she had a long-term boyfriend, which she lived with and I'd never met like he never came to the gym. And I always felt a bit weird. Like the kinds of comments she was making. I was like, oh, is this a bit disrespectful? I think it's like a case by case thing. Because you can look at people and admire their beauty and be like, oh, my god, you know, that Bristol was cute. But then I think when you like harp on about something maybe or you're making it a thing in your head, I just, I literally just googled like why do people have crushes? Like what is it about our brains? Because you should be right satisfied with long-term relationship, like an attraction within like monogamy, if that's how you work and that's your preference. And Google AI LOL. Google AI said short answer because your brain is built to light up around novelty, possibility and attraction, even if you're already in love. So a crush is basically your brain going like, oh, new stimulus. Right. And it's like also mixed with fantasy, so it doesn't feel wrong to indulge in it. Yeah. But this is what like fuels like the other concepts of like the idea of like new realities. Right. So is Google saying that it is in a way sort of healthy to entertain the sort of novelty to an extent? It's kind of saying, I think it's saying that this will happen regardless. Right. Crushes are inevitabilities. And I think that's what the cut is saying too. So you may as well lean in. Yeah. And make it fun. And like in your head, come out from a fun perspective instead of a, let's go down this route and eventually cheat. Yeah. Like, well, what about flirting? Yeah, I don't know if to sound prudish, but like I've had X's in the past that like, she's so hot. And it's like, don't tell me that. I don't like that. I don't want to know that. When I don't want to fucking know that when you look at crushes from the point of view of the the partner. Yeah. Because like it's it is inevitable. People are going to have, you know, small crushes here and there. Yeah. You're a long-term relationship. But they're looking at it from the other POV. I think you need to be constantly thinking of the other person and how they would take it, which is why when I look at this secret, my first like point that popped into my head was, how is the boyfriend feeling about this? Does he know about this? How do you think he would feel about where this is gone? Like now, you're saying you miss this neighbor. You're asking us, how do I de-escalate these feelings? Which signals to me that they've already escalated to put on your worried? Yeah. That being said, my final thoughts on this are, I think she'll be fine. Like she's moving out. She'll never see him again. And then that puts a halt in the duration and the kinds of interactions they're having, like what I was saying before. Yeah. I think Shushi's, if you're in this situation in your relationship and you have a crush on maybe someone like a work in your mutual friendship group, whatever, I think you just need to ask yourself whether it's harmless or not. I think that's a good like true North. And like how much of your time are you spending thinking about this? I know. I know. Yeah. Try and figure out some sort of percentage ratio thing because like you should obviously be mostly thinking about your partner. And I do think Shushi, who I can't remember your name, you didn't have one, anonymous Shushi, you've asked us or you've mentioned that neighbor has asked to keep in contact still once you move. Do not do that. Do not do that. That would be weird. Also, yes. At their center, we light up around crushes because they make us feel like ourselves. Do you know what I mean? It's like adrenaline because it's like, oh my god, I'm feeling like a pep in my step. I'm excited. Like, oh, someone maybe someone likes me. Maybe I like someone. It's very like making my way down. Exactly. He's going to be okay. It feels good to have one. Yes, it does. And so I'm just like, if you are feeling really good about like yourself through this crush thing, you need just a new avenue to feel good about yourself. Yeah. And I think this is if it's a problem. Sorry. No, totally. And I think that this move has come at a really great time because I think distance will give you some perspective on this. I do. Yeah. I don't say. No, I'm just going to say I do worry with some of the details of this. I don't love that every time like another neighbor catches you guys together and accidentally mistakes you for a couple. You're like, oh, yeah. He's my man. Oh, yeah. No, you she's expanding the like both of them are expanding like the cinematic universe of this crush where it's just like people. Yeah, people in the apartment complex are talking about them and it's just like I'm not correcting them. No. That V is away from it just being a harmless crush. Yeah. To it being something that I don't necessarily love. But we're moving and we're never going to speak to him again. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Okay. It's time for our next crush. It is shoe. You're reading this one. Okay. All right. No name for this one either. Yeah. These ones I just kept fully in on. The big secret has names. Yeah. Anonymous for she is giving like in the Google dark where it's like anonymous me a cat. Anonymous. Oh, my dear. Yeah. Exactly. All right. Years ago I fell head over heels for my coworker. He six foot six jacked and so handsome. So tall. It is. Being around him at work derailed my ability to focus. I mean, fair enough. I used to sit in a spot where I could see him working and I'd come up with an excuse to fill up my water bottle or to get a coffee just so I could speak to him. He was a really good guy and always talked about how he hated when girls only became friends with him hoping it would be more when he really. He'd always talk about what I said. You know what? You want me for one thing. Yeah. No, no, no, no. It's not my ridiculous like with lots of my really tall. I see. He'd always talk about it. I can't laugh it. Yeah. Okay. Back to it. He was a really good guy and he always talked about how he hated when girls. Oh, yeah. We're doing it again. I need to hear it again. He was. Please. He was a really good guy and always talked about how he hated when girls only became friends with him hoping it would be more when he really was just interested in genuine friendship. I obviously read the subtext brackets thanks to my extremely obvious crush and took the hint. One weekend we all ended up out at work drinks and him and I stayed out longer than the rest. I think the flirting was undeniable. Once he invited me back to his for a late night cup of tea, I thought, oh, MG, we are on here. Yes, you are. Jesus. We ended up getting into deep chats and I stayed well late into the night. He offered for me to sleep over. Some part of my brain decided it would be a good idea to hop into bed with him fully clothed. No, what's happening? No, I totally understood. Yeah, I've done that before. Really? Yes. Okay. It gets cold overnight. No comment. No comment. I was so nervous that once I was in his bed, I couldn't move and just lay there like a log. I'm talking genuinely frozen. That's so relatable. Yeah, because like picture this. What's happening? You have a crush on a guy. This has never happened to me before, but I'm like method acting. Yeah, love it. You have a deep crush on a guy. He's going, I'm not into crushes. Like I just want to form friendships. Yeah. But then you suddenly you're in his house, you're in his bed. Confusion. Okay, conflict. Okay, I guess. Yeah. Genuinely froze the poor thing. Long story short, he ended up kissing me, but nothing more. And I felt like I was on cloud nine. The following week, I had so much anxiety, but he eventually reached out to me and asked for us to go out to dinner to talk. I thought he was going to let me down gently, but it actually ended up being our first date. Oh, turns out he also had an obsessive crush on me the entire time, but didn't want to risk something casual in case he would lose me as a friend. We've been together for almost two years, and he is my best friend. I have never been happier. This is your sign that sometimes obsessive crushes actually do work out. Life's too short not to tell someone how you feel. Love heart. Oh, that's so beautiful. I'm so sorry for making fun of his, his comment at the start to this anonymous sushi. It's just, it's just like, it's such, it's giving like what a nice problem to have. Yeah, and also I think like him now. Now what about him? - Oh, what's that? - Oh, you guys don't know what a hymn. - No, I've seen this, but I forgot. - It's like a bimbo, but a hymn. - Isn't that like Travis Kelsey? - A good looking but an unintelligent young man. - Sorry, no, I don't mean, I don't, whatever, guys. - No, I'm all mean like Ken, the energy. It's like, that's what the lion was giving. - Like, means well. - Like, I'm just, I'm attractive, but no one wants to know me. - And I think knowing that they're in a long-term relationship now and that he had this massive crush on you, I think what he was trying to do was like, divert. - He's crushed by being like, oh, you know, I just wanna be friends, just in case you also just wanna be friends if this is just a friendly thing, knowing that he had this deep, obsessive crush on you. - Yeah. - How exciting, how beautiful. - I love. - That is gorgeous. Honestly, that's the blueprint right there. Like that's how you want it to go. - And that's why crushers have such a great reputation because they lead to love, you know? - Yeah. - I mean, what's your hit rate? (laughing) - Not great, not great. - Anyway. - I'm going as crushers. - Oh, same. I have one for like one day and I'm like, "Well, all right, well, we've got one more crush to get to, but first, a quick word from today's sponsor." - Yay. - Yay. - Sure, she's, we know you love your highly addictive TV shows, so a quick recommendation from us. The Testaments is streaming now on Disney Plus and it's going to be one of those shows everyone is talking about. - Set in Gilead, but with an all-new story and younger cast, it follows the next generation as they find their way. You don't need to have seen Handmaid's tale to love this one. It's a fresh rebellious and hopeful new story. We think we write up your alley, stream the Testaments on Disney Plus now, and a huge thank you to Disney Plus for making this episode of "Everybody Has a Secret" possible. Do you guys remember your very first crush? - I actually do it was in high school. No, and that wasn't the first guy kiss, but he ruled my life. - Oh. - I know. - Why, how? - I don't know, he was just like the cool hot, popular boy, but then-- - How old were you? - Like 14 or 15, and then we dated. - That was your first crush. - What about in the first school? - Did you go to primary school? - Oh yes, okay, yeah, no. I hope that was someone at the movies when I was like 10 or 11, probably. - Oh my god. - Like hooked up with tongue. - Or maybe I was more like 11 or 12. - My first kiss was at the age of 16. - You can pull it up. - No way, no. - No, no, that was 15, so. - Were you like, I need to do it. - Yeah, like I am behind. - I'm behind. - I was on the PR. I was on the PR trip, and I was like, can't be first, can't be last. Also the pressure of like, oh my god, like what if I'm gay, but like not thinking about a role? - Yeah. - I was like, yeah. - I have someone that's like good. - Yeah. - Where was your first crush? - It was with, and bleep his name, if we use this for anything. (beep) Oh. (laughing) - You know what I mean? - No. - No. - Oh, oh. - This was in prep. But then it was totally ruined when I saw him with his head stuck in his pencil case, trying to hide him picking his nose. - Oh, just thinking. - And I was like, oh, we all know what you're doing. - Oh, no husband and mother. - No, that's not what I mean. - Even though I do double. - Yeah. (laughing) - I do it in private. - I'm not a pig. That's so funny. - And yours? - I just had like multiple first crushes. Like someone, anyone that I thought was like remotely cute. - Yeah. - And I thought so many of the boys was so cute, 'cause I used to play Otskirk. - Play. - I'm not cutie playing Otskirk. - I know. - I was like, "Hey, guys." So anyway. (laughing) And then, but nothing really eventually had it with them. - Yeah. - And then I did in year two, I had like a full on relationship with like my first crush. - You don't even. (beep) (beep) - Oh my God, I was such a white woman. - It was like really short though. (laughing) - He was like, "Oh, so short." - He was like, "I can't." - Yeah, I don't care. I reckon he's got your own. - I'm sure he's got your own. - Yeah. - So he was like, "I can't." - I can't. - No, I don't remember anything from like that young. Yeah. Mine's more like high school, like late primary school. - Yeah, no, and then I had a boyfriend. In the end of primary school. - That's so exciting. - Yeah, it was good fun. We love crushers. - We love crushers. - We love crushers. - And onto our last crush I think. - Oh, 'cause that was on my surprise. - Yeah. - I was like, "I'm not clear." - That was the one. - Rooms, I think you're reading this one out today. - I am, the last secret comes from listener Kate. - Hey, Katie. - Hey, Kate. - Strap in. - Whoa. - That's all I'm gonna say. - Buckella. - Sure she's. My husband has a work crush and it's ruining our life. - Oh no. - No, no, no. - No. - I found out when I noticed my husband Trent was glued to his phone. - Hmm. - When I questioned him about it, he didn't flinch and admitted he was speaking to his coworker Emma. Apparently it was all work chart. I teasingly suggested that he had a crush on her which he didn't appreciate. But I explained I thought it was normal to have crushers while in long-term relationships but also asked that he reign in the messaging. Trent agreed and assured me I had nothing to worry about. Until Trent went away on a work trip. He began sexing me, unpronged by sending me noods and I found out a little strange. We did sex here and there but he was only away for one night. So I couldn't help but think is he taking these for Emma. - Oh no. - He sent it to the wrong person. - I caught him straight away and confronted him and he denied the photos being for her but admitted they'd occasionally still share some friendly banter. - Oh. - Oh. - At this point Trent and I were preparing for parenthood. - No. - Sorry. - We'd found out months earlier that we were expecting. - How exciting though, a really exciting time for you. - My hormones were all over the place so I know I would have been extra sensitive but I knew deep down he really needed to cut off contact with Emma. When he got home I was very honest that I felt particularly insecure and I wanted us to focus solely on our next chapter together. - Period. - He got defensive and reiterated that she was happily married but he's still agreed to cut off any chat with her outside of work. - Emma's a happily married. - Emma's happily married. - Okay and we've got a baby on the way. - And he's expecting a baby. - Fuck. - Cut to me giving birth. Trent was amazing during labor and those first few weeks at home but it didn't take him long to become absent again. - Oh you got a lot of training. - I swear to God Trent. - I knew I had to bring it up again. Now maybe for the fourth or fifth time. - No. - Probably more. So one afternoon we took our bump for a drive and I confronted him. I told him I'd notice he always had his phone on Do Not Disturb and would constantly change his focus modes. It felt like he was hiding something from me. That's a thing. - Yeah. - Sound the alarms. - Fucking fishy. - Quote by Trent. I only changed my notification settings because I knew it stressed you out when she would message me, especially closer to your birth. - Oh so it's your problem. It's your fault. - Why is she messaging you? - Yeah literally. - I couldn't believe him. It all came out they were having a full blow on a fair. - No. - It was limited to kissing and talking. Apparently they'd meet up and have a silly little make out session. - What do you mean? - I would keep waiting. - Get the rage. It's so real. - A silly little make out session. - I was furious and incredibly sad. I threw his phone out of the car window while we were on the freeway. - Good. - And he went and stated his parents placed that weekend. My sister had to come over to help me care for our newborn. - Oh. - Finding out I was being cheated on throughout my pregnancy has been the most hurtful experience in my life. I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy. Cut to now, Trent and I are in therapy. I'm finding that it's going really well. We have a newborn together, so we do really want to make this work. - Although. - He still works with Emma, which drives me insane. - Fuck no. - Do you think it's fair I ask him to leave his job? - Yes. - Yeah. - They've blocked each other on everything and once a week Trent gives up his phone so I can go through his messages. - Oh. - He told me that she knows that I know as well. I fucking hate her. - Yeah. - Men are so dumb. Seriously, beware of the office crush, Kate. - Fuck. Dude. - Oh my gosh. - Oh my gosh. - That was a ride. Like life actually left my body. - Yeah. - In that last half. You went through the six stages of rape over there. - Katie, I am so sorry. - Kate. - No, I know, but I gave her a-- - I know, I was just testing. - We're friends. - I was just testing to see if you remember. (laughs) - That sounds like a fucking shit show. An awful and just not what you need around the time of being pregnant and giving birth to a child I'm assuming your first. - Oh. And then it's like, you were so Katie. - Mm. - So generous at the beginning. And I mean that in a positive way. Like, you know, you trusted your partner and you thought the best of his communications with office people. That takes a big person to be like, yeah, office crushes. Like just reign it in a bit, but whatever. That's bigger woman than I. - Yeah, true, because it just, even hearing the concept of a crush at work or something like that, that would as a partner, the lambels would go off. - True. - I'd be like projecting the fucking house down. - Oh yeah. - And then when he-- 'Cause he responded quite defensively. Like he was like, no. - Yeah. - Like, back off. Weird from him. - Weird from him. - Weird from him. - Also the just random sexting photo. Yes. - Massive yikes. It's just all a bit much. And honestly, like hearing that secret made my blood boil as it did for all of us. And I just am finding it so hard to talk about Trent because I am not liking him at all. But then when you consider the secret with the fact that Katie and Trent are currently trying to work it through, which I think is credible. - Yeah, like, they're in therapy. - Yeah, working through this because they're both new parents and they want to make it worse. - Yeah. It's like, let's, right, as you always try to say. You're like, I'm like, let's tread carefully, but. - Yeah, it's like, okay, there's a few elements here. Let's just map it out together. - Yeah. - We've got the cheating. The crush turned into cheating, like, crush turned full blown affair, which he needs to be held accountable for. And we're not going to be mean. We're just gonna hold him accountable for it, give our thoughts. And then we've got Emma, who he still works with, but Kate/Kady really hates her, like, a lot. And so I'm packing if that as well. And then any other things we need to touch on, they'll come up, I'm sure. - They'll come up. - So, let's start with him. - Let's start with him. - And the betrayal, because essentially, he had a crush and it turned from like passive feeling to like actual, like active participation. - Make out sessions. - Make out sessions. But even before that, it was like, full blown cheating totally. But even before that, it was like, this micro relationship, it wasn't just like this fan to see or this idea of someone at work. It was like, oh no, they were texting all the time. They were hanging out all the time. - Emotional cheating. - Emotional cheating from the get. - Yes. And this is kind of what we talked about at the top of this episode. The worst case route would be a crush turning into this. And Katie's experience of this is just all time horrible because she was pregnant. And in that sense, I find transpatrial, obviously, the worst kind of betrayal of trust because she was pregnant. And it was like a whole new stage of life that we're about to head into together. It's supposed to be a happy time. I'm sure she was vulnerable in her own way is just by being pregnant. And he's off having an affair with someone at work who Katie has flacked. She's been like, hey, just reign it in. And that's when he should have been like clocked it. I'm about to be a dad, reigning it in. And that would have been okay. - I still personally would have been like, I know, I know, I know. But she's bigger and better than us. - Yes. And that's why it's like, you are Katie, you are so strong. - Strong. - Because you're working through it at the moment with him, even though you had to shoulder it all throughout. - Throughout your pregnancy. - Yeah. - What do you make of trans excuse? I only changed my notification settings because I knew it stressed you out when Emma would message me, especially closer to your birth. - I'm calling bullshit. - Yeah. - Obviously that's bullshit. And it's like so classic. It's like we can say it, that's plain as day. It's just a tactic to be like, oh no, no, no, I did this because I'm a martyr. And I did this actually for you because I care about you and I'm protecting you. And our baby, by the way, like, it's just bullshit. I would love to be a fly on the wall, not to make Katie your relationship, some sort of form of entertainment. But I would love to be a fly on the wall during these therapy sessions to see whether any of that shit comes out like this. - Yeah. - Because if you were Trent and you had fucked up so many times like this. - Yeah. When you've just started a new family. - Yeah. - The only way in my mind that you are successfully handling this therapy is if you're falling in your sword at every turn. - Yeah. - I did the worst thing ever. And I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm gonna quit my job. I'm never gonna speak to Emma. The fact that like, he's still working there. I'm like, yeah, Katie, you tell him to quit. But they're like blocked on Emma's blocked on everything as well. So it's not enough. - It's not enough. - Like, distance, as we were saying before, distance yourself from this person. If you truly care and respect Katie and your new family. - Yeah. - I just think, yeah, I'd be curious to see if he is in any way defensive at this point in time or moving forward because I just don't see how you can defend your actions here. - Yeah, no, I completely agree with that. I think it's interesting as well. 'Cause this secret is like a case study for, you know how at the top of the episode we were kind of being like, where's the line between crush and like a fair? - Yeah. - I think this is the line. Trent didn't cross the line when he was kissing her. He crossed the line way before I think. Let's all give our opinions on when the line gets crossed. - I think it's the second it becomes a secret. - Yes. Before you said that, I was thinking, I actually think crossing the line is when you're texting that often. - Yeah. - But I'm trying to picture whether it's like hiding communication and/or investing emotionally. - But I'm trying to figure out if just communicating this much with a coworker is an amber flag. Like even if you were to be communicative about it, I'm trying to think like, oh, what do you need to be texting someone from work? But it's like only you know that. Like you as in Trent, only you know that you're like getting giddy when they text you. Or like you're the only one that can articulate this and it's just like so fucking annoying that it's like on Katie to be peering into his life with like this trust, I don't know. - Well, this is the murky thing with crushes and this is why maybe crushes can sometimes be a bit destructive is 'cause like I would love to know Shushi call out. - Yeah. - If there's ever been someone who has had a deep, deep crush, Allah first anonymous Shushi who had a crush on her neighbor. - Yeah. - And successfully pulled themselves out of it. Because with the first Shushi she was saying, you know, he's asked to keep in contact. What do I do? And it seems like she's really struggling with this idea of distancing. - Yeah. - Because maybe she's in a little too deep. - You can still save it though. - Yeah. - But with Katie and Trent, like I wonder how feasible it is for someone who's so deep in a crush to be like, hey, I'm feeling you know adrenaline from this and I'm really liking speaking to them this often. How easy is it for you to pull yourself out of that if you're you know trying to be a decent person? - Which we all are. - And if good morals. - And you've got good friends that can bring you back down to reality. I think that's the difference here, right? It's like we've got a crush which can be fantasy and like you can be hyper aware that it's just like a giddy kind of cutesy silly thing. And then you've got actual emotional investments in something and there's intention to like do more. - Yes. - Yes you, yeah there's intention to pursue. It's on you to be able to clock the difference. - Yeah. - But it's like how to diffuse a crush is like, genuinely being brought back down to reality and coming to terms with the fact that this was always a fantasy or this was always something more and you need to like re-adjust. - Yes. - And obviously it goes without saying, people can slip up. - Yeah. - Not that this is a slip up, this was the biggest mistake ever. But people can come back from cheating hence why they're in therapy now trying to come back from his cheating. What do you make of regaining trust here? Because as I said before, I think he needs to be like fully on the floor begging for forgiveness, doing anything Katie wants. And I'd be interested to know if he is doing that at the moment. - Well it's kind of what you're saying. Like in order to rebuild and regain trust, you have to fall on your sword and you have to make sacrifices. And I think right now given his proximity to her still to Emma at work every day, knowing that it's setting off his wife's fucking nervous system, quote driving her insane, was it? Like, yeah, she's like, I feel insane. Did I think my fingers are in secret? - No, you didn't. I just thought you would dissociate. - I was like, "He's not blinking." - Do you know what I was thinking? Do you know what I was actually thinking? - Tell me. - I actually couldn't, and I know they have a child and I know that like, I don't know if this is their first born or if they have other kids too, we don't know. But like, you'd better go. - I could not come back from this. For a really long time, I probably would have to move out. I probably have to care for the child elsewhere. And I probably would just have to, they disdissits myself. 'Cause this greats it you. And like, she doesn't trust him. She still needs to look through his phone. - It's not fair. What would you be able to? - Eventually maybe, but I honestly have no clue. I think speaking as someone who doesn't have a kid, and if I would put through something like this or if I would cheat it on, I knowing myself would need to do to distance myself. Once trusted broken, I tend to go, bye. - Yeah, yeah. - But I don't know what it would be like to. - Bye. - I don't know what it would be like. To have, I have some reason assumed that this was their first kid, I might be wrong, but I don't know what it would be like to go through this during my pregnancy, give birth and have my partner in Trent want to fix the relationship and kind of be like, sorry enough to go to therapy and be like, we could be a family again. Let's work on this. I genuinely don't know. That's hard. As I said before, you're kind of vulnerable. I don't know what their relationship exactly is like, you know, with money and all that. When you picture a live a certain way, pregnant, I'm assuming it's like, now we're doing this together and we're sharing the load in that sense. So I don't know if I were to have a kid with this. - That's a fair answer. - And what about you? - Oh, I don't, I think I wouldn't be able to do this. If he's not quitting his job, and she's still in my orbit, then that's not blank canvas, you know what I mean? - Oh, if he's not willing to quit his job, Trent, I don't care what you do. - Yeah, exactly. - What kind of work you do? - You do 100%. - You can do what elsewhere. - He has to be doing all the things that you were saying, like falling on his sword, falling ready to rebuild trust. Right now trust is just being managed. It's not being like rebuilt. and like I don't like it. love the fact that you're still checking his phone every week. - That's so. - And if that's what you feel like you need to do to move forward, you do you. - It's so traumatising. - How come you have to be like, I understand it's like a reassurance thing. She just wants to make sure. - And I can totally imagine what I'd wanna do this time, so. - Same. - Given these circumstances. - Sames. - Oh yeah. - But you are the one now having to be doing the thing, you know, making the actions to try and fix this whole mess. He could just be doing more to make you feel reassured instead of you having to be like, cough up your phone. - I know. - It's time to check. - Exactly. - I'm like, if he, I know therapy, but if he were to be continuing something or keeping in contact, I'm sure he'll find his other ways. - Exactly. - It's just like, oh. - I know. And we don't know what's happening on the inside of that therapy room. But yeah, to be a fly on the wall, because I'm like, it's so awesome that there are couples that can go through such turmoil and then go to therapy and find a new way to clear path. - It makes you stronger. - Totally. - Yeah, true, true, true. But it's just like, maybe we need to get a, like, couples therapist in the Shushi Trust. - I love that. (dramatic music) ♪ There's someone in the Shushi Trust ♪ ♪ Go right before Shushi Trust ♪ - Cool out. - Second, cool out. - Second, cool out. - Couples therapy Shushi's. Hit us up. - Yep. - Yes. - I think the other thing I just wanted to quickly say as well is that like, it's so unfair finding out something this big shot, like obviously amongst being pregnant, that's fucked. But even when you sideline the pregnancy and just like kind of generalizes to treating it, you then look back on all of the times that you caught him on his phone or just like, it literally changes your entire perception of however long you've been together. And it like severely shakes your trust, I assume, and your entire identity. So it's just so much mental load for Katie. And so I think it's just like saying what we were saying before is it's just like, fuck how strong would you have to be in order to like carry this load. - Also like, strength aside for Katie, I imagine it's easier for her in her mind and also for a lot of people who might go through cheating. It's easier to try and patch it up than to lose everything. That's what it feels like I'm assuming in your mind is if we break up right now, I lose so much for Katie, she's losing like a co-parent, all that jazz. So I imagine Katie is strong, yes. But I think maybe a lot of people try and fix and repair something like this out of a desperation to keep things normal. So just final thoughts are Katie, you're doing everything wonderfully and we're so sorry that Trent has been a shithead. And you can say that too, I'm sure. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, without a doubt. - And you don't deserve to be driven in saying by the concept of this other woman. - Exactly. - But like, especially when you've already been driven in saying. - Because that was true. - Exactly. - He was with Emma. - Yes, he was. - I thought some feelings are with you Katie. - Yeah, I love you, queen. - Love you so much. - Love you so much. - You're doing so well. - Yeah. - Yeah, thanks for sending your secret in. - Guys. - That brings us to the end of today's episode. - Oh, we kind of lulled there at the end. So we got a bit flatsky. - Yeah, I'm sure there'll be a jingle now and hopefully pet things up as we leave. - Yeah, sing a jingle, go. (singing) - Everybody has a secret. It's produced by Ruby Hall and Lucy Hunt. If you have a secret, you're ready to share with us. Submit her at everybodyhasacecret.com.au. Everything we read will of course be kept completely anonymous. You can find us on Instagram and TikTok at a house podcast and get our weekly Ask Us newsletter in your inbox every Friday morning. We'll see you next Friday, Shushis. - Bye. - Bye. (singing) - Oh, you're out of good. (upbeat music) - This podcast was recorded on Verundery Land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land. (upbeat music) - Hello everybody, it's, uh, it's us again. - It's us again. (laughing) - Oopsie, we felt like we haven't spoken to you guys about shame more much recently. - No, and the thing is we may mention shame more a little bit in our general episodes every now and then, but if you don't actually know what it is or you've come on and we feel like we've never explained it to you, shame more is the subscription arm, our subscription arm of shameless. - Do you get it? Shame less? - Shame more. - Ah, when you subscribe to shame more, you get a few perks, that includes early access to most of our episodes that are completely ad-free. 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