Umbria

The city of Gubio, for instance, they have pre-Atraskin artifacts in there. I think it's called the Palazzo de Concelé. Don't quote me on that, but I think that's right. In the main Piazza, inside there are tablets that have the umbrian language as it was originally written. So these tablets are pre-Atraskin, which is very old. And like you, I didn't even know there were things still left over pre-Atraskin. I thought I was living in a town that was pretty old, so there are even older places to visit in the region. Hello, I'm Alex Pate, Editor at DK Travel. And I'm Rachel Ledler, Project Editor at DK Travel. And welcome to Where To Go, where we are in a mission to make every trip extraordinary with the help of global travel experts. Hello Rachel, how are you? I'm doing good, thank you, how are you? I'm very well, thank you. Can you tell us where we're off to on today's episode? So today we're visiting Umbria. Tucked away in the middle of Italy, Umbria is an idyllic region known for its rolling hills, engine olive groves and leafy vineyards. Struing across this bucolic landscape are a host of charming hilltop towns and cities, such as the region's capital Perugia. Like the rest of the country, it goes without saying that Umbria offers some amazing art food and wine. I'm sure we're going to dive into it with today's guests, so without further ado, who's joining us today, Alex? Well, it's a really exciting one, Rachel, both because the destination sounds so incredible, but also it's a really special moment, because we're welcoming back our first ever guest on the podcast, stretching all those years back when James and Lucy were host. It's Tony DeBella. Wonderful. American-born travel and lifestyle writer Tony DeBella lives in Orvietto. Her work has been featured in such publications as The Telegraph, Fodors, Walks of Italy, Culture Trip, Fromers and DK Travel. Welcome Tony. Thank you, Alex. Nice to see you. So wonderful to have you with us today. I'm really excited about this episode. So as usual, we'll start by learning a little bit more about our guest, Tony, followed by her all-important recommendations of where to go and inside the knowledge of Umbria. Then we'll hear about how to plan the best possible visit. So our first question, Tony, could you tell us a little bit about what made you move to Orvietto? It's really down to a simple thing is that I really loved Orvietto. And I really wanted to live here, and I felt like it was a place I had visited, and I felt like it was a place I could settle down, I could build community, I could make it my home. So when I did decide to make the leap, it was a natural thing for me, and it really boils down to I really liked Orvietto, and it called to me. And so here I am. There's no better reason to move to a place I think than just like absolutely loving being there and the whole experience of it. But in terms of kind of like the wider Umbria region as well, I mean that obviously has its impact on your decision. So what is it about that region that kind of makes it so special? Well, the first time I came here was on a holiday, actually. And I hadn't been to Central Italy, I'd been to Venice and I'd been to Milan, but I hadn't traveled to the south or the central part of the country. I based myself in Orvietto with my companion at the time in our children, and it was a place for us to kind of base and move around. So we spent two weeks in Orvietto. So it wasn't particularly Umbria that attracted me as much as I was there and sort of got the feeling of, wow, this is a really nice place. It's a bit quieter than Tuscany, and it's a perfect spot to, as I said, move throughout the whole country because I can, from here I can get to Naples on the train in three and a half hours. Four hours I can get to Venice, six hours to Milan. So it's a really good spot. It's really smack dab in the middle of the country. And so it made it easy for me to come and go because I used to come here to visit before I actually made the move. So it was easy to get to from Rome. I'd fly into Rome, jump on a train. I was here. So in that respect, I think it chose me. It just made a lot of sense. That's lovely. Honestly, like I went to Italy last year and did like a bit of a kind of solo trip down on the trains. The trains in Italy are just, I've probably raved about it on the podcast before, but I'm just in all of them. It's so quick to get around and like relatively cheap as well. So that makes, yeah, if you're like perfectly comfortable. Yeah, it's wonderful. Yeah, yeah. So that's a big plus for Umbria, the location. Definitely. It sounds so conveniently located. You mentioned Tuscany very briefly there, Tony. Do you think there's an extent to which Umbria has been somewhat overshadowed in the past by it's more kind of famous and more sort of people think of Italy and they see these kind of rolling hills of Tuscany? Do you think that that's kind of overshadowed Umbria? And do you think to any, is that changing at all? Oh, it's definitely changed it. I think in the last 10 years, Umbria has been covered by television shows, travel logs, lots of articles. I think people have discovered it, but I don't think it's still as high a profile as Tuscany. I've still come across people who say, where do you live? And I say, oh, I live in Orvieto. Oh, where's that? What's in Umbria? Oh, I've never heard of that before. But not as much as I used to hear that. So I think it's the cat's out of the bag, so to speak, in terms of travel. And I think we are more of a destination. Now than we were a decade ago. Is it still like relatively quiet? Have you noticed like that up taken tourism on the ground at all? Well, we get a lot of tourists in Orvieto, especially the summer. It was quite busy. But it's, you know, Tuscany has Florence. They have pizza. They have big cities. Umbria has Paruja, which has, I don't know, 130,000 people. That's the biggest city. We're mostly made up of tiny little villages in town. So in that respect, it is more rural. It's more laid back. It's more natural beauty than fancy art museums and, you know, so it's in that respect. Yeah, it's quite cool and easygoing. Slightly different vibe than, yeah, to Tuscany. Slightly different. Although the landscapes are very similar. Yeah, yeah, beautiful. All right, so moving on to the best things to do round to kick us off, imagine the Alex and I are visiting you in Orvieto for 24 hours. Where are you going to take us? Well, the first stop is easy because we have one of the most beautiful cathedrals in Italy. Yes, yeah. A very small town with a very big cathedral. So the Duelmo is a 13th century Roman Ness Gothic cathedral and it's in the main square of town and it's just stunning and breathtaking, really. And so I always ask people to go there first. In fact, if you come up from the finicular coming up from the train station and you take a bus, the bus to the Duelmo will drive up a hill, come around the corner and it's like one of those bums. And so it'll let you off in front of this magnificent cathedral that will knock your socks off, really. What an introduction to the city. Yeah, it's a good start. Everything's downhill from there. That's not true. And I always tell people if the weather's nice, there's benches across from the front of the facade. It's a great thing to just sit down for a few minutes and just gaze up at this beautiful facade, which has gold mosaics and giant bronze doors and intricate carvings. Just you can spend hours really looking at all the details. There's a rose window. So I really think that that's a really great way to take in sort of the outside of the cathedral. Then you can go inside for some more really cool stuff. On the right hand side of the cathedral there's a famous chapel which has the last judgment painting by Lucas Signorelli. That's a masterpiece of Earth or annaissance. And that's a must-see. So everybody needs to see that once in their life. So that would be my first recommendation. That sounds wonderful. It feels like we're there with you, which is really, we really brought onto life. That's really nice. Where would we go after that then? Where would you send us? My second favorite thing to do is the Oravieto Underground. I love this tour. It's so fascinating. There are hundreds and hundreds of caves and also wells that were dug by the Atraskins. All over the city. But they've sort of isolated a section and you can go down and you can actually tour some of the spots underneath. And that is just a fascinating thing. They were used through to the Middle Ages. So the Atraskins built them to get water from the water table below. But they're engineering feats that I think to this day they really don't understand how they were able to dig these well. and breathe at the same time. It's really fascinating to her and so that's the second thing I would ask people to do if they only had a day say to come towards Vieta. Listeners will know this but we work together on the on the DK Travel Guide to Umbria and I remember not really knowing that much about the region and before I started work on it and learning specifically about like all Vieta underground and it just was absolutely amazing to me. I hadn't expected anything like that. Yeah and just like seeing the images if you Google one of the Atresken Wells I think it was it just looked incredible. Yeah you can't believe that people were able to build it. Yeah and I have friends who have Wells under their house or they have caves and they use them for wine sellers. Some people put plexiglass over the wells and light them. So it's really cool. It's really really cool. Oh wow. Beautiful. That's incredible. And it's Atresken's free Roman as well. So often we think about ancient Italy we think about the the ingenuity of the Romans. Yeah. This is pretty Roman. That's amazing. I love how this tour Tony starts with you us taking the finicular up to the top and then we're going underground. We're really seeing the kind of vertical strings of the place. The over and under. Yeah. So we've sort of touched on some of the incredible history of the city but if we're talking about Umbria's history more generally it stretches back thousands of years. So there are any recommendations you have for where you can explore this incredible history. Well Umbria is part of the Atresken areas that also encompass Tuscany and Lazio. But there are a lot of Roman towns, Roman bridges, Roman homes. There's really quite a bit of ruins that you can visit within the Umbrian countryside. The city of Gubio for instance, they have pre Atresken artifacts in there. I think it's called the Palazzo de Consoli don't quote me on that. I think that's right. In the main Piazza inside there are tablets that have the Umbrian language as it was originally written. So these tablets are pre Atresken which is very old. Very old. And like you I didn't even know there were things still left over pre Atresken. I thought I was living in a town that was pretty old. So there are even older places to visit in the region. It's quite quite interesting. That sounds absolutely amazing. And in terms of kind of like Roman ruins, is there anything that you would pull out in particular that is like a must see? I haven't personally been to it but I've heard of it. And it's Casuale and it's almost like a Roman town outside of this city. And you see ruins like you do in Pompeii. Wow. So yeah, it's really amazing how much you can see. I mean you could be walking in a town and oh that arch is Roman. And that wall is Roman and you just really don't think about it. I mean I know England has Roman ruins as well. So it's kind of like that. I mean you can be almost anywhere and you probably will see something from the Roman era along the way. That's amazing. I love that idea of just being completely surrounded by history wherever you are in the region. That's such a such a beautiful thing. So we've kind of like covered history but in terms of Umbria's wealth and credible landscapes. Like if we wanted to explore them a little bit more where would you recommend going to? Oh, that's a tough question. Sorry to hit you with that one. I have to give you the disclosure. I haven't been to every place in Umbria. Yeah, I have to confess. Although I'm working on it. I would say for if you're someone who likes outdoor activities and there's a lot of mountains regions, there are national parks on the eastern side of Umbria. There are mountains, there are river gorges, there are fantastic waterfalls. So there is a lot of hiking. I think one of the things that Umbria offers for outdoor z people is a lot of hiking trails. And around where I live there are just numerous hiking trails that you can take. You probably could take one different one every day and see different sort of landscapes. So I think if you're a hiker, a tracker, I think Umbria is a great place to come. There's also lakes where you can do saline, fishing. It's a very outdoorsy kind of place. I mean, you've sold me with the hiking side of it. I love a bit of hiking. So yeah, the idea of just being able to come and explore multiple trails across the region is, yeah, that sounds pretty sweet. That sounds incredible. Yeah. And so once we've come back from our adventure, from our hike, this is obviously a huge draw to people going to Italy, what should people eat and drink when they're in the region? Well, Umbria is, cuisine is quite meat-based. So I'd have to say, if you are a vegetarian, you'll be fine. But if you want to eat a typical Umbrian dish in a restaurant, you'll probably find that a majority of those dishes are meat-based. So the Chingale, which is wild boar, which is a very traditional dish in Umbria. Pigeon is a dish that is typical here. Pork is really big in Tuscany and Umbria. So I'm sure you've heard of Porquetta. So these meat-based dishes, I would say that eating here is very earthy. But the vegetables are also very earth-bound. They're plucked from the earth. There's a lot of foraging. So there's a lot of Chicoria, which is Chiquare. And lots of greens. Like this time of year, there's lots of winter greens, which are really delicious, spinach and fennel. And all those kinds of winter vegetables are really a great source for vegetarians who don't eat meat. You'll eat well, even if you're not a meat eater. I have to say. Nice. And of course the pasta. Of course pasta. Are there any specific pasta dishes that you would recommend meat-based or otherwise? Well, the pasta that's typical of Umbria is called Umbrikelli. It's similar to Piti, which is typical of Tuscany. It's a really fat spaghetti. So it really grabs the sauce and is a very yummy dish. And you can get it with Porcini mushrooms or truffles or just a simple arbeata sauce. So it comes in various sauces and various toppings. But it's the typical pasta here. It sounds delicious. And what about wine in the region, Tony? Is there lots of good vineyards around Umbria? Absolutely. I mean, I don't think there's a region that doesn't belong to Umbria. But Umbria is very famous for, sorry, I keep bringing up Orvieto, but the Orvieto classical is a white wine that is very, very popular around the world. And also the Sagritino grape, the Montifaco reds are also a great wine. So those are two big popular wines in the region, just off the top of my head. Sounds amazing. If you could recommend one wine bar in Orvieto, or is that, I mean, there are too many to say. No, I have my favorite. You do? I have my absolute favorite. And it's a very unusual place. It's called Vincafe. And there aren't many places I've been in Italy where you can sit at a wooden bar on the stools and have a glass of wine. They also have tables. But it's a very quiet place. They play music on the audio, but it's just background. And it's just very cool and just locals come there. It's not a hot spot. I sometimes finish work late and I'll just walk over. It's not far from my home. Go in, sit down at the bar, do your crossword puzzle, drink a glass of wine, have a little salami and red dish, or just order a bowl of soup. And yeah, that's my all-time favorite. Vincafe. That is so beautiful. I want to be there right now. So, finally, are there any towns and cities that we haven't talked about yet that you think are worth mentioning? Definitely. I love a CC. Have you been to a CC? No, no, but I know that it's got an amazing basilica from what I remember. Yes. So, same Francis basilica. It's a UNESCO heritage site, the basilica. But it's just, it's a very small town in population, but it, you know, expands with pilgrims, especially during the summer. And this year is Jubilee year in Italy. I don't know if you know that. So pilgrims are going to be coming fast and furious here in December is the start of the Jubilee year in Rome. So, there are going to be a lot of people coming to Italy for that. And I imagine they'll be coming to a CC because that is a pilgrim destination. But it's also just a really lovely town. It has a Roman temple of Manurva. We talked about Roman artifacts. It does have a Roman temple in the middle of town, but it has the basilica. And it's just, it's so different. It has these beautiful, rosy white buildings made of stone. And it's just, you can walk around the streets. You have to just sort of slog uphill sometimes. It's very hilly. It's up on the top of a hill. So you have beautiful, expansive views all around. It's one of my favorite places in Oumbria. Sounds incredible. It's not quite a typical thing in the region, because am I right in thinking that all the ethos are kind of hilted? I historically, it's a hill town, isn't it? It's built on the top of the hill with the sort of newer part lower down the hill. Is that quite typical in the region to have these kind of hill towns? Yes. From my understanding, there were a lot of feudal towns. And so they built them as fortresses, and to be able to see attacking forces coming at them. So, and as I say, there are so many sprinkled all over. I mean, it's almost too many to count. I always say to people, if you've seen one hill town, you've seen them all, but there are many different ones with different characteristics. And Assisi is one of those that really stands out, because it's just so different in terms of its coloring and its makeup and people that it draws. I find it really interesting. Even looking at the images I saw when we were working on the guide together, and it was just amazing, like the basilica kind of right on the end. And it is just, it's one of the most impressive buildings that I think I've seen. It's just very striking. Yes, yeah. So, that's a must see. You have to see them. And the frescoes inside are top notch. And yeah, it's just, you know, just every day. Maybe that. From enchanting hill towns and ancient ruins to epic mountain scenery and wildlife filled national parks, there are countless reasons to visit Umbria. Whatever your dream trip involves, your decay Umbria travel guide is the perfect companion. Okay, so Tony, the last little section is just on planning a visit. So, for any listeners who are keen to come, could you recommend the best time to visit the region? The best time I think to come to almost anywhere when you're visiting on holiday is probably fall. And the reason that I say to come to Umbria and fall is the obvious that crowds are thinner because families are back in school. And so, there tends to be less travelers at that time. It's a bit cooler, which is nice. The weather can be glorious. Up until last week, we were having quite nice spring-like weather. Even the winter weather isn't like up in North England. It's quite mild. So, you know, a jacket and a hat and gloves is all you really need throughout the winter. So, early fall to late fall is my favorite time to be here. It's also the time for vendemias and the olive harvest. So, you are going to get a chance to maybe try the new olive oils that have just been pressed or taste the new wines. A lot of makers will offer, even the bar that I was talking about, they'll offer new wines that haven't been aged yet, that have just come off the delivery line. I don't know what you call it out of barrels. So, it's a really good time if you want to participate. A lot of agriterees most offer to let people participate in their great harvest or their olive harvest, which is a really great experience. So, if you have a chance to come that time of year, I recommend that people really sign up to do something like that. Tours of wineries will sometimes offer this during that time of year. So, that's a really great draw for fall. The idea of getting stuck into it and then potentially tasting the fruit of your labours, let it run. That, yeah, that sounds absolutely fantastic. And the tradition is, if you help out with an olive harvest or a grey harvest, the host will have to feed you a great big lunch. And so, you have to work, work, work. But then you get to enjoy this wonderful lunch. And so, it's a really wonderful thing to do. Fabulous. And from what you've said about the food as well, I would definitely. That's enough to sign me right up to that sort of thing. If you like to eat, come to Wumbria. In terms of standout events then as well. So, you know, falls the best time to visit. But are there any events that we could pin our trip around? Well, I think some of the biggest events would be. Parooja has a chocolate festival, which actually starts tomorrow and goes for a week. It's called the Euro Chocolate. And it's. Parooja is the home of the bachi chocolates, you know, the little kisses. So, there's this big festival. And I've been to this festival and it's just chocolate left and right. You know, people throw candies at you. And there's just all kinds of different ways to taste chocolate and lots of events and lots of stalls. And it's a really fun event. And I think worth coming to. Parooja also has in the summer a very famous jazz festival. The Wumbria Jazz Festival. And it's a 10-day festival. They've drawn some really big names in the past. Like Lady Gaga has performed there. And Tony Bennett and some really big names. So, that's a really great event. The smaller events that I would say are really fun to see are the medieval festivals. For instance, in a CC, there's this in May. There's this four-day, three-day festival. And I've been to this too. And it's like a pyrotechnic, like Skrkdravaganza. There's, you know, torches everywhere. And things are being lit up by fire. And thank goodness the houses are made of stone. I mean, I've seen anything like it. And they're, you know, medieval costumes. And they're just fire eaters. And, you know, it's just, it's incredible. It's so much fun. And I think that that's something in May that you can plan your visit around if it's possible. Spaletto has the festival of two worlds, which is also a big international festival. But then there's also just everywhere you go every weekend. There's an antiques fairer, sagra, which is a food festival for a particular region or areas special dish. I mean, there's really no problem. No matter when you come, you're going to find something going on somewhere. That's great. I just love that about Italy. You can pick a single kind of food or item of local produce that doesn't have some festival celebrating it somewhere. Right. It's so wonderful. Yeah. People identify with their products and their dishes. And it's really important to them. And they like to celebrate it. Yeah. That's absolutely fantastic. Thank you, Tony. And just at the end, we always like to ask how travelers can make a positive impact when they visit the region? Well, yeah. That's a concern all over Europe and all over the world, right? Over tourism has become quite a problem. And I think because of the way that Oombea is set up and that there is a lot of open space, there's a lot of green. There's a lot of opportunities to purchase things from local businesses in town. To eat at small restaurants, family owned businesses. I think that really makes a difference. Also, take a train. We talked about trains. If you can, take a train. I mean, not every place you can access by train because as we said, there are little towns everywhere that aren't necessarily near a train station. And you may have to drive. But there are buses, links from train stations. And if you really put some effort into it, you can limit the amount of carbon footprint you leave behind. Other than that, just eating locally and buying locally helps everybody. And then you get some special items that are just really authentic rather than going to an international brand store. Really try to keep it small. And the idea, I think, of eating out locally like you say and getting to enjoy all of this amazing produce that people are so proud of as well. The locals are so proud of. They put a lot of effort into it. Yeah, and then you get a delicious meal as well. It's like it's a win-win, right? Right. And people appreciate your interest in their foods or products or their artisan crafts or whatever it is. Absolutely. Wonderful. That's a perfect place to end, I think. Thank you so much, Tony. That was really great. Thank you. So thank you very much to Tony. That was an amazing episode. I'm particularly interested in going to one of those medieval festivals. I had a little look at pictures of them online. And it's a lot of fork and costume, a lot of fire, like she said. So sounds right at my street. Nice. I mean, it was a fantastic episode. It's not a region that I know very much about. But hearing about the Etruscan Underground in Orvietto sounded incredible. So yeah, thank you so much to Tony. Listeners, you can find more of Tony's work at orviettoobust.com. And our next episode is on Poland. So be sure to join us then. This podcast was produced by Julia Baker and me, Bella Tolbert. For more information about DK Travel, visit DK.com/travel and follow us on social media. Please rate, review and follow the show. We really appreciate your support. [Music]