Ulrike Granögger: Evidence For The Wave Genome

Welcome to the Richie Flow Nutrition Podcast. My name is Cameron Borg. This episode I had the pleasure of speaking with Ulrich Granöger. Ulrich is a researcher and lecturer passionate about the convergence of science with spirituality. Ulrich's background is as linguist. However, she's been one of the foremost exponents of alternative or future sciences. With the attitude of a noble journalist, she has met, interviewed and understood the work of many scientists at the fringe of their profession. She has allowed her to explore ideas of quantum biology and the holographic nature of genetic material. Ulrich also contributes to Catherine Austin Fitz's Salary Report, where she regularly writes and speaks about topics under the umbrella of future science. In our conversation, we discuss a variety of experiments and ideas that Ulrich supported with visual aids. Although it's not necessary to understand the contents of our discussion, I encourage listeners to see the YouTube version for additional information, which is linked in the description. Researchers from our discussion will also be linked below for further in depth investigation. I'm very grateful for Ulrich's time and for her tireless work to bring these niche and somewhat forgotten ideas back to the scientific community. Before we start, please consider subscribing to my substack, where I share information that goes well beyond the scope of this podcast. I also share a solo podcast expanding on the contents of this conversation if you'd like to get even deeper insights into our discussion here. Becoming a subscriber is the best way to support my work and this podcast. With all this being said, I hope you enjoy the conversation. Thank you so much for giving me some of your time. It's been a while we met about a year ago at Jerry's Water Conference in Lisbon. And I thought your talk was fascinating. I really enjoyed it and I had been interested in the work of some of the people you spoke about. And it was very difficult to find anything on the internet about this work. Only that I heard that it had happened. So to hear you elaborate on it was really, really useful and insightful to me. And it has given me a lot of time over the last year to think about this and I'm really glad we get to go into the nitty gritty here and hear about your perspective on a lot of this. I guess you could say alternative science. But in reality, it's just scientists who are asking good questions that maybe rub against the paradigm that is dominant today. So how did you get interested in to, I guess you could say, this alternative science view and trying to look into very interesting questions that were being asked in science? Oh, thank you, Cameron, for inviting me. It was a pleasure to meet you. And of course, the water conference is such a splendid event and you're meeting all these very, very interesting people, whether they are participants or lecturers, it doesn't matter there. It's like real high level discussions that you can come up with. And so thank you for continuing your interest in what I presented, which was about the wave genome. And it's one of my, you know, I have a strong feeling that we are missing something in science. I'm not a physicist or biologist by training. I am a linguist actually and I have a degree in comparative literature. But I know the scientific method and I throw out my life I've had opportunity to meet with highly interesting people who have really thought along the edge of what is the scientific paradigm because they also feel there's something, something's missing. It's not complete. And if it is not, then we have to look further. I'm also involved in philosophy and I have followed a mystical and visionary text called the keys of Inoc and that has put me on a roadmap of quite a few very interesting discoveries. And so this has been part of my life, literally. I'm personally also exploring, you know, what could be called more your energy body existence through expansion of consciousness and mind reach, etc. So I'm interested in remote viewing and in other topics we can talk about in the future. But so that's my background. I'm also working for what is called the Academy for Future Science and that has these ideas of future science of how we can best tackle the problems of the future. Not by doing the same as now with the same mindset but by expanding it a little bit. And I'm also working for the Solary Report, maybe some of your viewers, Noid, Catherine Osman-Fitts, who is bringing together quite a few interesting voices and perspectives. And her idea is to help people live a free and inspired life. And so we share this interest and I bring some of the science to the Solary Report and people do like it. You also need science for life. We cannot be ignorant about what's going on in the scientific world. And my invitation is to everybody to get a little bit interested in the science even if you're not a scientist. I very much agree and I think we're on the same page in that something seems to be missing in the current paradigms that dominate science at the moment. And I think this was really sparked by the discovery of DNA by Francis and Crick. And when this happened I think the general assumption was everything was going to be solved based on our understanding of the genome growing. And of course this hasn't been the case at all. It seems like there's been a fundamental misunderstanding as to what the genome is there for what it's doing. And this is why it became so interested in the work of Peter Gadiayev who had perhaps a different view as to what the genome, what DNA was really doing. As have others and it wasn't just him but he has a particularly interesting take and his work is particularly interesting. And this pertains to what you spoke about at the conference as the wave genome. So I was wondering if you could give me sort of a basic overview as to why the concept of wave and this quantum holography view that you've spoken about applies to the genome and DNA and how that changes the way we should think about it. So let me just give a brief summary because I've also prepared a few images and slides that we can go into. So but it doesn't matter if we repeat a little bit. As you correctly said there was this great expansion of the idea of now we got it. We have the DNA and now we know what controls everything in the body and the more we are looking the less it is true because especially if you look at how much money is for example going into the cancer research and looking for genes that are responsible for this and that situation nothing materializes. It's simply not in the genes. And what there seems to be missing is overlooked in that biochemical paradigm in the looking for the you know the human genome has been decoded the exact sense of the new places and we are looking for the genes that are responsible. What we are finding is that it's not in one place. It seems to be that there's an overall and that's where Gaiari's work is coming in and other people's work is coming in. And overall let's say wave or continuum of information in the chromosomes and it's not in one particular place but as we know the cells each of the cells have the whole chromosome set. It is fructally and non-locally distributed throughout the organism. And that it seems far away and far fetched especially when we are looking at what science is doing nowadays and what so much of our recent experience in the last five years has been based on namely the biochemical change and insertion and injection and that whole idea of thinking that we can you know make the body produce something that then will be making it better. that seems to be. really, really, in fact not only limited but dangerous. And if we see that the organism may function literally more like a hologram, a quantum hologram, and why quantum were well the fine later. But more that the information is distributed like we are beginning to realize it's also, the mind is not only in the brain. And so genetic information is not only in the DNA. So if we begin to realize this then maybe some of these things are going to make more sense. And so what Gaya has found is that you can in fact capture the wave form the wave information of DNA and you can transmit it. In this view DNA is an antenna for both to send as well as to receive information, which is then holographically and non-locally initiated or materialized in the various processes of the body. I will show a few pictures I think that would help and so that it doesn't get too abstract. It is very abstract but I think it's important to clarify the reason quantum comes into this is because we are talking about non-local effects of DNA. And this takes us, I guess quite nicely to something that was discovered by Gaya which is the phantom DNA effect, which is a fascinating experiment that is not known by very many people. I have asked around and it seems like people might be aware of it but not so much what to make of it. And this comes back to this idea of DNA being something like a hologram or extending out beyond itself. So I'll let you find some slides to basically describe a little bit about what this work was. Okay so let me share. So this is just, I just want people to be aware of the salary reports and my website at science.solary.com and where you will find that report, that video that I did and also I presented about this at a water conference as we just mentioned. I wrote about water in the Solary website and produced a little book about it. I also presented about the ideas of the Wave Genome this year at the Swiss Association of Complementary Medicine at their master class. And I have produced two videos that this one is from 2018 already so it is now almost seven years old but it's not outdated even though I can add more. I suggest people who are interested go and look for it because a lot of what we are discussing today is also slowly and with visually explained therein. I also made another video about Peter Gajjev when he died in 2020 and I think it was untimely death. It was a surprising death and so I made a little bit of an obituary. He was nominated for Nobel Prize in medicine but of course lots of people are nominated just before he died. So what I want to say is that my interest is to promote this here I am with Gajjev in Moscow that is 2011 and here I am at our conference that we organized with Gajjev in 2012 and I just want to say that what I'm not specifically talking about here because I have not looked into that so much is because there is other websites out that are selling material that are selling quantum wave DNA holograms etc. I am not so interested in that I cannot verify that I do not promote them I have not vetted any of these but my intention is to help this work continue so that even though I am not the scientist the laboratory scientist to do this work I hope that someone will be inspired to continue at least to look at this and to think about this. So we were at the phantom effect the DNA phantom effect and that is one of the original discoveries that they made. It was first published in 1991 by Gajjev himself you can you can see this here in this digital library it's it was published in Russian of course and it was later made public in an English journal by Vladimir Poponin in 1995 and he did that in collaboration with the Hart Math Institute which is in California and it seems that they have replicated some of the original experiments that were done in Moscow it seems that this was done at Stanford which I think is quite interesting to to note. So the DNA phantom effect was first observed in Moscow at the Russian Academy of Sciences and it was simply a side observation while they were doing experiments with lasers measuring the vibrational modes of DNA. So the laser that they were using is what is called a dynamic light scattering laser and these are lasers that analyze the brownian motion of particles in a solution. So here this is from Wikipedia so the dynamic light scattering of two samples and they can map the frequency, the motion, the size of the samples but you can also use this for the frequency modes of DNA for example in a liquid and that was done and what was found is extremely interesting. So here are four plots I'm going to make them larger these were published these were originally given from Gajjev to Poponin they were published in in that journal in English so they were doing is you you have you have first a kind of a let's say a control plot you you are measuring the background you're so this is a this is a cavity or this is a dark chamber into which you shine the light and what you want is to refract the light from whatever particles they're in. In a vacuum chamber in a dark chamber you would not expect many refractions happening because there's nothing in there. A totally random distribution. Random, yes exactly you have the random distribution of the scattered light or photons and what you see this is what you see here so there's not much actually to see and then you put in sorry yeah I just wanted agree with you so that the listeners who may not be seeing the the images also know but we've just got a random distribution when there's nothing in the chamber and then when DNA is placed in the chamber you get this beautiful little unilating graph that shows a very clear signature of something interfering with the laser. Exactly Cameron this is this is now on the second chart here the the the DNA was put in and maybe on a petri dish or something and you see the beautiful you actually see how regular the the the scattering is which shows already how highly ordered DNAs and we know it because if you look at the molecule the DNA molecule itself you I have another picture for that later and you see how densely packed of each of the atoms are in a perfect geometry. And it's this in itself is mind-blowing that this is possible. But let us also think of the fact that DNA in the cell is hardly ever static. It's only in the shape of the chromosomes when the cell is dividing. Most of the time the DNA is actually undulating, it's opening and closing, it's behaving like a wave. And therefore it would have all kinds of different scattering patterns. So this image shows the physical DNA sample in the scattering chamber. And the most interesting part comes when you remove that actual physical sample of DNA. And you do not disturb the chamber, dark chamber, then you can still see a phantom DNA. If you compare the first and the third, the background is random brownian motion. And here we see even though fainted and not as strongly defined, a phantom DNA. While nothing is in the chamber. So conventional thinking would have you believe that when the DNA is removed again, you would again get completely random distribution. But instead what we have is quite a clear signature that there's something there that's interacting with the laser, even though it's completely empty space. That's again correct. Thank you for helping me define this for the listeners. This is so important, Cameron. And it's great if we both talk about this. Because what is actually interacting with the light now? Where does it come from? Where is that whole information stored? And how does it elicit something from nothing? And therefore there is this idea, well, there must be some new field or a kind of a maybe interaction with the zero point field with that quantum field that we don't know about. And the fourth picture is another of those. What they are saying is that if you don't disturb the background, this can last for days and sometimes months that you have a signal coming from that place. And they have repeated this quite often. What they're saying is that they can only repeat it with DNA. The other material has not produced that effect. It's as if the DNA, the memory of the DNA is somehow resonating still with that physical space when the laser is shining through what is physically empty. But something about the DNA has left an imprint clearly in a field that we can't measure at this time, but it's manifesting in the way that the laser is going through this supposedly empty chamber. Yes. And it raises already, for me at least the question, if you think ahead, where is DNA doing this or is DNA coming materializing by light into the physical form? Do we have an interface between information and matter, especially with DNA and with the genetic material? So these are for me very interesting questions. And of course what we are doing is we are looking at a quantum biology. It's not biochemistry and simple biology, but it's quantum biology. There's aspects like entanglement and non-locality. And these are very important aspects that are more and more accepted, but also by mainstream science. For example, here we have an article from MIT Technology Review that scientists are under physicists theorizing now that it is quantum entanglement that holds the DNA together or puts it into its shape. Because the atoms and the subatomic particles are in very, very close proximity and their oscillations, their vibrations, their modes overlap. And come into a type of an entangled pattern. So we have quantum effects that are understood, maybe even quantum tunneling because of that very, very narrow space, that so many ordered molecules or atoms are taking up, they are maybe not only entanglement, but through that effect also quantum tunneling. And that can be both positive or negative. The main reason to show this here is that quantum effects, quantum processes are likely to take place in a medium like DNA due to the high order of the geometry of the molecule. And maybe one more image here that leads us to what Gaiai was publishing about and theorizing over many decades, of course, not only in the phantom DNA effect, but based on that, a whole slew of experiments has come out. The idea, namely, that DNA is a wave traveling on the liquid crystal nature of the biological molecules. So it's a type of a liquid crystal grid that is there present in the cell. And along this grid, it's like a crystal, the information is stored. And chromosomes can be seen as they are called diffraction gratings. And that's why when you place a laser light onto such a grating, you are kind of eliciting the information that is stored in there as a waveform. So this is how we can view it. These waves would be the idea of a scalar wave. They would not be necessarily electromagnetic waves. But they might be going into the spin orientation of the individual particles. But all of this, of course, we have to acknowledge is right at the edge of what we are researching, what we are knowing. And therefore, we will probably have to be a little bit more open-minded as to what really is going on. We are observing certain phenomena. And the chromosome continue, therefore, means that chromosome that grating, that diffractional grating, goes throughout the whole organism. And would allow for entanglement holographic information, and maybe even a quantum teleportation of information taking place. I just want to point out that this idea of entanglement, the way you speak about the specific geometry of DNA, which everyone is familiar with, very exquisitely precise. And it has so few degrees of freedom that quantum effect become more likely. And there are great videos on the internet that you can find looking at. People setting off lots of metronomes at the same time, but at different times of the period. And of course, after a few cycles, they all start to synchronize, even though they were set off at completely different times. And I think this is really telling us to what might be happening in the vibrational states of very, very condensed matter, like the DNAs that their vibrations start to synchronize. And I think this is what you're talking about with entanglement of DNA, actually holding it together. It's like all the metronomes, all the particles that make up DNA are acting as metronomes. And even if they start at a different time in the period, they eventually sync up. And you get this type of frerolic condensate state that was hypothesized. I can't remember when he, when frerally published that paper. - I'm in 68. - 68. - Yeah. - Yeah, so. - And I'm kind of going. - But what it does is this idea really sets the basis for whole organisms comprised of trillions of cells being able to act. as a single entity, and the only way that you can get that is through coherence of every single cell in the body. And it seems like DNA, or this very, very precise structure, which is present not only in DNA, but in all sorts of structures, even collagen is a triple helix, for instance. But all of these condensed matter are perfect candidates for allowing these coherent modes, like a foreralic condensate state, to take place and allow the organism to act as one. So I think it's beyond a shadow of a doubt now that quantum processes are happening in biological systems, for sure. Yes, and it's not just like a metronome, but it's that entanglement actually means, you know, non-local means that it goes past and future. We actually don't know what we are what we are linking to. Where is that? It might be hyper-dimensional, in fact, that we are, we've become into a, come into a resonance, and that's the whole idea of what people are developing on the basis of this, that maybe certain forms of healing and rejuvenation, as we will see, are possible, because you bring yourself back, or the organism back into resonance, with that, you know, hyper-dimensional resonance image, that however you want to call it, that seems. I mean, that seems. It seems like we are existing in a world where lots of things are going on that are beyond our senses, our perception, if you will, but that doesn't mean that they're not there. And I think this is why people like Robert Sheldrake have put forward an idea of another field, a morphogenetic field, or a morphogenic field, one that we can't measure at present, but something that must be there. And I think the invocation of fields that we can not detect at this time, starts to become more and more logical, as you see these effects, like we see, with the phantom DNA effect, come up, how do you explain them if you do not invoke the presence of a different type of field? So it's very interesting to. Yeah, the morphological field, a Rupert Sheldrake type field, we'll talk about this a little later, but it's necessary, because why do we still not able to explain from the DNA how the shape of the body comes into being? We cannot. We don't know why a stem cell becomes a liver cell or a skin cell. We don't know why. There is no. We have not yet reached that level, unless we are looking at certain people's research, that are beginning to crack that code, and this work also is part of this, is we need to include that other field or that other level of information, that we obviously have access to, especially DNA, therefore literally acting as an antenna that can be, you know, also teleport its information. I just want to show one more image about quantum teleportation of organic molecules that is realized, you know, it's. When we are talking about quantum teleportation, we think that it's only electrons or Alice and Bob, only one particle, but really it's now shown through the work of Anton Seilinger that organic molecules and larger molecules can be teleportated, if you will, or can be brought into quantum interference, and that brings us even more close to that whole idea of what Gaiai has been saying as a wave genome. I think it's really important to point out the significance of this quantum interference of large of molecules, not just elementary particles, so I think people might be familiar with the double slit experiment where a photon or an electron acts as both a wave and a particle, depending on the way in which it's observed. This was thought to be only something that. only something that fundamental particles, you know, photons, electrons, those types of things were capable of doing, but what you're showing here is even fuller in C60 has been shown to do the exact same thing, act as if it's in multiple places simultaneously, and this really changes the way we have to think about quantum mechanics, particularly as it pertains to biology, because if this is happening with large molecules, then it opens a lot of doors for investigation in quantum biology. Absolutely right, and you know, we are talking about the foundation of the experiments that I'm going to show in a minute, and I think before people see those, they need to realize all of the physics, all of the biology, all of the mechanisms actually are there. We just have to bring them together, and then change our paradigm about what biology is and what life is literally. Yep, I couldn't agree more. I mean, what we were speaking about before with the inability of genes to explain form or the coming into form, morphogenesis, is one of the biggest issues embryologists face today. We cannot explain form through the genes because genes code for proteins, and being able to say that you know what the form is going to be based on the building blocks is like saying, I know what a house looks like, if you tell me what the bricks are made of. It doesn't make any sense, and there has to be something fundamentally missing here, and that is why I think asking these questions, these alternative science, which I guess I don't really like because it's not alternative, it's just asking questions that other people aren't asking. But they really give us a way forward, which is why your future science is such an important thing to consider. What questions are we going to ask in order to move forward? That's wonderful. You put camera on. Thank you. So what would be best to go to now as far as trying to make this flow? Well, I was thinking that we have established that there is quantum processes. Gaiav was using lasers in order to or with lasers they found out about the first different effect, but he was also using laser light, then in his experiments, which we will see to treat organisms or to affect genetic changes. So perhaps it's an idea to look at where does the laser light come from? If there is any laser property in the body and we know that there is, so perhaps we should look at one of the foundations to explain all of this is the existence of bio photon emissions from the body. Based on the questions that you send ahead, I would go to quickly look at the experiments by Alexander Gowicz and Kastner Chef. And then go over to to Fritzbop and the bio photon emissions. So all of this also for your viewers please, you will find this again in the video that I produced. And this is to give you ideas for further study. The discovery of mitochondrigenetic radiation, namely during mitosis, especially the cells emit a radiation a light. Even though back then he wasn't able to measure it and capture it so well. Alexander Gowicz, a Russian German scientist, they all wrote in German back then. In 1926 and in 1932 published these two books about his experiments where he used the tip of an onion. sprout to stimulate growth in another organism. And what he's theorized is that there are biological photons that are being emitted. This was later a continued, I mean this is very, very fundamental work and this was later continued in Novosibirsk by the now late Blight Petrovic Kassner-Chef who I worked with this is actually the book that he wrote and his associate Alexander Trophymov I helped publish it in English and the photo I made these photos I made myself. He became famous for the distant intercellular electromagnetic interaction effect between two tissue cultures. This is the setup and here I show it once again this is the actual publication that came out even in a Western journal and it's called the cytopathic mirror effect where information for example you have two patriot dishes one with a culture of sick cells they might be two more cells or they might be having a virus or a bacterium and you put the you put them apart from another sealed tissue culture which is fresh and thriving if there is an optical window between the two it happens that the information the cytopathic effect goes over to the other culture and that means that there is electromagnetic communication between these cells even at a distance that is a very very profound discovery especially taking in consideration that it is mainly through ultraviolet light windows that this communication is happening between the cells and Gaiaya himself worked at the Institute of Cousin-Chi-F and of course this is not the only work that Cousin-Chi-F did he's a very renowned scientist who also looked at how we how the organisms are affected by the magnetic flux and by the radiation cosmic radiation flux from the sun and throughout the solar system during embryo genesis this is a whole topic in itself and it's described to a degree in this book and what it leads us to the understanding that there is and something that has then been shown by Fritz-Albert Pop in Germany that there is light being emitted from the cell and okay that that sounds fair enough of course all kinds of chemical and physical processes would emit a photon but it's not just random photons what is found is that through Fritz-Pop and through the photomultiplier that he built you can show that the cells emit coherent light laser light literally laser light I just want to jump in here and and talk about the side of pathic mirror effect that was found by Cousin-Chi-F which again is very very reminiscent of Gov which is original experiments with no effect being seen with a glass between the two petri dishes but effect being seen with courts which implies that the electromagnetic radiation that was responsible for the the side of pathic effect being transferred even though there was no physical contact being mediated by ultraviolet light and I believe this has been done again last year by Reese Mold and those at the Guy Foundation in a very very similar experiment with mitochondria showing the exact same thing that mitochondria perturbed by a pathogen and then put next to a quartz cuvette with mitochondria not perturbed by the pathogen all the mitochondria even if they were not directly exposed exhibited effects of being exposed which again shows another way in which coherence could be achieved in the cell is through you know on the scale that we're talking about effectively instantaneous communication between cells and tissues through light such a small distance at the speed of light is you know we're talking about effectively completely instantaneous communication and this is another way in which the organism is basically sharing information throughout each and every cell instantaneously so and this is what pop continued to to look at exactly and that is very interesting but maybe you should link that to to the video or to this interview that recent experiment that I don't know about yet so that's that's perfect if these things are repeated that's the intention that more and more of this material will then stimulate new questions and new experiments and what you are what you were saying also in terms of the communication being at the speed of light if there are quantum processes it is actually faster than the speed of light or can be so there's instant media there's instant communication possible you know but so going back to the to the buyer photons perhaps pop showed this is these are images from this is for example I don't know if you see my cursor here yeah the leaf put into a photomultiplier and this is the buyer photon emissions so everything that lives emits its own light and even after the leaf has been cut off you still get quite a wonderful outline of light signature coming from it which is fascinating to think that even after something has been removed even after you pick a piece of fruit it is still leaking the light that was held in the chemical bonds that it had collected from its surroundings leading up to that point so very interesting indeed it is interesting and it also gives us a clue about our food yes are we eating and that was one of the areas of research for pop namely for example he was looking at the buyer photon emissions from eggs here's the egg yolk and in the photomultiplier the eggs of caged hence produced this amount of bio photons and the eggs of free range hence produced a much higher output of bio photons more than double more than double and think about coherence and information think about how therefore much more of of of information can be stored in such a biological or healthy or a fresh fruit fresh herbs and plants and fruit etc instead of what much of humanity is made to eat today because it said it has to be you know it I don't think it has to be if we have new technology and a new vision of of biology perhaps we will also find better ways of food production so life is electromagnetic and the buyer photons they are nowadays even though for its pop was ridiculed at it in the 1980s nowadays this is I've proper research and it is taken very seriously that there is emissions of bio photons from mycodocondria and from all kinds of cell organelles mycotubules are playing a major role and also in the optical communication channels in the brain there may be bio photons in the neurons it seems that they are moving especially along the myelin sheets around the axons that it's not only a chemical information transfer or signal transfer in the neurons but it there is the basis for a light network in in the brain and of course there are so many experiments that are showing that the actual synaptic gap you know the jumping of the synaptic gap the action potential would build far too slow for all of our perceptions and for all of our awareness to take place at that speed as it often takes place. - It's fascinating that the more I learn about bio-photones, the more I learn that there are structures of the body that seem to be made to specifically shuttle bio-photones throughout the body. I mean, collagen, the extracellular matrix appears to act like a fiber optic cable that transfers bio-photones around the body. I know hair, for instance, that hair can transmit through like a tube. And now we're talking about the neurons and the myelin sheath around the axons doing the same thing. Seems as though the more we look into this, the more we find very elegant mechanisms by which bio-photones can be directed throughout the body. - Very in very specific and purposeful manners. - Yes. And there's another level which is the microtubules. Of course, which have been already suggested as a foundation of consciousness by Stuart Hammurov and Roger Penrose. But if you look here, the green stuff is microtubules during mitosis when the chromosomes are filing up and it looks totally like an electrical coil. It's called a spindle apparatus with the two centrioles here on both sides. And then it pulls it apart, but it looks like a coil. There is like an energy flow. There's like an information flow between these various sites of the microtubules. And that immediately takes us to the fully condensates and the microtubules and why they are important. Because if we look at the microtubule, microtubule, one thing is clear, we know that they are hollow tubes and they are in perfect arrangements. This is a picture that Stuart Hammurov, I think he published in one of his publications. And we can see that it is to be expected that if these very thin filaments have hollow cavities inside, there would, and we know that all of these organelles and all of these structures in the body are vibrating ever so slightly. They are in constant motion. What you would have is over time, the building of coherent wave interference patterns and they become literally, it's indicated here, standing waves through the microtubules. So you have photonic or light standing waves. And we know that one of the properties of a standing wave is instant communication. All of the note points have the information at the same time. So for the listener, this picture from one of Stuart Hammurov's publications looks like, it looks like almost like a tribal artwork, there's two intertwined spirals, going almost like Yin and Yang. And the idea of a standing wave, if I understand it correctly, is basically when you have a specific distance between two vibrational vibrating objects, is that what you get is constructive interference such that the waves oscillate up and down rather than move from side to side as they constructively interfere. - Correct. So they do move from side to side, but they are reflected back and they interfere in their in harmonics of themselves and thus seem to be standing there ultimately. And that creates coherence that can create laser effects inside of these microtubules. And also it's not only in the microtubules, but all of the membranes of the cell, the lipid bilayers, or everything is oscillating. And that oscillation is not only connected with bio-photonic resonances, but also with acoustic resonances because what you have is mechanical oscillations, even though it's so small, but of course it creates a mechanical, we could listen to it if we had the way of intensified and that is what is called a fröhlich resonance or a fröhlich type of a kind of a acoustic coherent oscillation inside of the cellular structures. That's what Herbert Fröhlich in 1968 theorized or predicted. They weren't able to define it yet. So these are mechanical waves, pressure waves, but they become so coherent, they overlap so that they become one condensate, one wave motion and no longer individualized. That's what the idea of a condensation is or both Einstein condensation is that with atoms, but here we have it with acoustic or oscillations inside of the cell. That here's interesting, I found this article very early on. In 1979 Russian scientists have found, it says here for the first time we point out the possibility of solid on wave packet propagation in the coherent systems of phonons and photons. And so that's one of the basis materials for understanding the wave genome. It's not only bio photons, it's also bio phonons and there may be a type of interplay between the bio photonics and the bio phononic standing waves or coherence patterns that then form that diffraction grating upon which the information can travel and can be propagated through the body. - And if I'm correct, I believe photons when they interact with electrons can pass off phonons or this vibration or this acoustic energy as well. And so in some sense these two are exchangeable. This vibrational oscillatory energy and the energy of a wave packet, I guess you could say, of a photon can be exchanged or interchanged. - I want to say something to this in a moment because that's something really important is also happening about the research of acoustic waves and phonons which so far have been thought to be simply theoretical constructs. Of a wave of acoustic wave is a pressure wave in a medium and so you have this theory of its quantum unit in the phonon. But what is now found is that phonons actually have mass. So they are not just abstract ideas, they have mass and I will mention in a moment what type of mass they have. Here's another discovery in 2015. They for the first time they did show a fruilich condensate in a protein crystal. Protein crystal simply means that the protein structure is very ordered as well and so they find that if you radiate or if you make the protein crystal absorb a certain radiation in here it was done in Terrahertz in 0.4 Terrahertz, there are changes in the vibrational modes of the crystal. And I'm also pointing out in the video of the wave genome that Anirban Bandhibadai who is someone who is working with Roger Penrose and Hammeroff and who is thinking about what the brain might be in terms of a quantum computer has shown that the microtubules actually have various frequency bands along and inside of the tube. In both kilohertz, megahertz and gigahertz ranges. So there is a whole symphony going on in the skeleton of the system. cell. And that is quite really, for me, another paradigm shift just as it was with the bio photons, because all of this frequency, all of this vibrational pattern transmits itself to the environment and maintains itself. And now the mass, what they found in the phonons is negative mass. Negative mass, I don't have a picture here, but I hope that you are going to look this up also. I'm going to do a whole video about this, about sound itself. Negative mass means that it has a tendency of not, for example, a positive mass falls down due to gravity. Negative mass has a tendency to float up in gravity. So yes, anti-gravity effects, yes. And so what we may have is even negative mass effects within the highly ordered phonon patterns inside of the cell. You know, it's interesting. This reminds me of Jacques-Charlberg's talk at Jerry's conference where he speaks about Elma Fuchs's group in the Netherlands looking at the vortexes of water, and they find that certain points of a vortex of water vortexing, you get negative friction. So you actually get acceleration, even though there's no energy applied. And it reminds me very, very much of this negative mass story that you've just told. It actually may be connected, was it? You're right. Well, I don't know, I'm probably not the right person to be speculating on this, but it makes me think very deeply about how these things might be connected and how biology seems to have found ways around, let's say, the constraints of physics in some sense, in order to optimize function in some way, shape or form. So this idea, these two ideas overlap seemingly quite a lot, at least in my mind. Yeah, absolutely. And it takes us, of course, also to back to the water conference and to the whole idea of what water does in biology, how important it is, because those oscillation patterns then create exclusion zone areas in the cell. And if we look, sorry, if we look at the structure of the cell, the cell is permeated throughout by all kinds of these, tubules and organelles, and this is such a filled environment, all of which are vibrating and around each of these surfaces, you have the creation of four state of water, you have exclusion zones. So that provides a very wonderful foundation for much more to happen than just the copying of genes. Yes, well, exactly water when it's structured like this is like a crystal. It's highly, highly ordered and it probably permits a lot of biological functions to happen. And not only that, but also it seems capable of storing light in the form of the bonds in those easy layers as well. So yeah. Yeah, general polygases, it's also like a battery, you create energy. So some of the biological energy may not be just from metabolism, from food, but it may be from our own generation of energy. Absolutely. And I think the idea that we run on burning calories is extremely antiquated and does not do justice at all to the incredible things the human body is capable of doing. And I think that we are certainly getting energy in one way or another from sunlight. It seems like nature would be quite silly to not repurpose that from photosynthesis in some way in other life forms. And I think through particularly the infrared portion of light being able to generate these structures that create a charge gradient, which is a battery, I think it's a perfect recapitulation of what photosynthesis is doing and providing us energy again. I'm not sure in what way, but it must be providing some sort of energy to the body. I think so too. And if we put all of it together, what we have already discussed, especially with the quantum domain, then there might be even an unexplored energy yet that we can tap into. I do believe that because there is evidence in other societies and other cultures and times of history where people lived longer, where there is certain effects of the overcoming of the physics restraints through the mind and through the body. And I do think we have this ability as human beings only not explored and not really looking at. So to look at the role of water, I find it's absolutely fascinating again. So we've just spoken about water and how the force phase of water would form around all of those microchipals, all around the membranes, all around the organelles. And it was recently found that also around the DNA, water molecules are organizing themselves into the same shape as the DNA. It's almost like a mirror image of the DNA. And the question for me then arises, what comes first is the DNA first or is the water helix first that seems to be? And imagine these are water molecules that are connected over long distances. How is that possible? That there would be very long coherent domains of water. And that is another of these very fascinating discoveries of recent years that I think is hopefully contributing to changing our paradigm like Gerald Pollock has with the force phase of water. Maybe you want to summarize the force phase of water for the listeners. Yeah, it's been my pleasure to have Jerry on the podcast twice. And I think the best way to think about water is this fourth phase water that Jerry talks about is like a gel, something between the constitution of ice and water. And something that we see if you cut a cell for instance, it doesn't just drip out like it would if it was just water. It's like a gel. It's like gel or it stays in the cell. And there have been several studies that show that if you remove the membrane from a cell, it doesn't lose its shape, it doesn't like a balloon, it doesn't just like, you know, compress, it holds its form for quite some time like a like a gel or wood. And that's because a cell or, you know, all of our tissues are comprised of proteins and membranes and things that have this effect on water such that it structures it. It nucleates this gel like water to occur. And that's not to say I think a lot of people learn about fourth phase water and think, oh my god, everything has to be fourth phase. But Jerry's first book sells gels in the engines of life really paint a picture that it's this transition between bulk water, the water we're familiar with, the liquid water, and this gel fourth phase water, it's the transition back and forth between those that is actually performing work inside the body. I encourage people to read his first book because it has wonderful diagrams of potentially how things like mitosis occur, where the actin filaments and these cytoskeletal components are actually moved by the phase transition of water between liquid phase and fourth phase actually performing some sort of mechanical work. So I think what the key to this fourth phase water is understanding that the transition to and from liquid water to fourth phase water is capable of doing work. It's capable of actually having some sort of mechanical effects inside the cell. and because our bodies are so non-linear, where on the edge, the very edge of far from equilibrium, small changes, tiny changes can lead to large scale system-wide effects. And I think water phase transitioning is something that could be one of these things that ones up having large scale effects, even if the beginnings or the action is quite small. So that's the way I like to think about for phase water, but of course it's not the only way, it's not the only sort of anomaly that water has. And at the conference, we heard quite a bit about coherent domains, which were put forward by Amelia Del Guida-Cherry and Jacques Benvenest and look Montagnier talking about essentially these structures within water that are basically like Faraday cages inside of water that are capable of capturing and holding electromagnetic energy inside the water. And there were a few wonderful talks about this phenomenon, basically justifying why homeopathy can work. Even when there's no active constituent left in the homeopathic remedy, these coherent domains, these large structures that are like big Faraday cages within the water capture the electromagnetic energy of the substance that was initially in there. And these coherent domains become amplified as the dilutions continue. And this has quite large overlaps with Martin Chaplin's models of low density and high density water. These beautiful large structures of water molecules, which I will try and include pictures of in this video as well for people who are watching, because they're absolutely stunning the way that these, the shapes of the water molecules come together and make these large structures. - I've included some of Martin Chaplin's work in here also. And I'm referring to that as well to all what we are discussing. So maybe people are interested in this solarium report. And what you're saying really is, it's so true. And I think what it shows is that this is another avenue of understanding the wave genome really. It all plays together to bring that greater picture. As you're saying, it constantly is in a phase transition. And it's a gel, it's a liquid crystal gel. But that's exactly what also Gaia used to describe the chromosome continuum. The information is stored in the liquid crystal gel formations of the also DNA, but also in a sense in all of these organelles and structures and filaments of the cell and of the overall organism. - So yeah, it's complementing. - It's interesting in May 1, whose book The Rainbow and the Worms, she actually talks about the gentleman who created liquid crystal displays for TVs and screens. And she writes quite not a lot, but a little bit about how he recognized that biological systems were doing the exact same thing that he had figured out with making screens. And that the body is essentially a liquid crystal. And she writes about that beautifully in her book, which is why I-- - One of the books absolutely to be recommended. She's such a trailblazer in all this work. Yeah. - I'm really glad to see she got a moment at the opening of the conference. We took a moment to appreciate her contributions and still going on today. Even though that book was published in 1993, man has it stood the test of time, my goodness. Yeah, and maybe I'm not sure, do you think it would be a good idea to maybe discuss the similarities between Luke Montagnier's famous studies and what we began this conversation with talking about Gadi Ayav's DNA phantom effect because the overlap between those two is astounding and as Gadi said at the conference, Luke Montagnier's original experiments have been confirmed now six times independently. So there is something absolutely to pay attention to with these studies even though they have been ridiculed. - Totally ridiculed, which is outrageous, I think the way many people-- Luke Montagnier had to go to China to continue his work. He was so frustrated in the West. And it also tells you something, what they are doing in China and in Russia and in all of these countries, which are a little bit inaccessible to us, especially in their languages, unfortunately. Can we first go to Gadi Ayav's experiments with the rats and then show the relationship to Luke Montagnier's? - That sounds perfect. - Because it's more easy to follow. - Yeah, interestingly, the studies that Gadi Ayav's did with rats and the laser modulation of DNA is even more incredible than the phantom DNA effect in some sense. - It is. And yet it is not, I think both are really fascinating. I just want to show this picture also. It's from one of Gadi Ayav's publications where he's then summarizing that the information is stored almost as a holographic image. He thinks that this may be a future video recording technique. It's a technology that can be used. As a holographic image between the electromagnetic and the acoustic radiations of what we have established is coming from the cell. So we have both an electromagnetic laser and we have an acoustic laser in a sense by the wave patterns. And that also creates a type of a holographic image if we want to have a model for this. And I think that's quite pertinent because now he was going into experimenting with lasers, modulating information from healthy cells or genetic material and radiating this onto six cells. So he has been doing the reverse of the cytopacic mirror effect in the sense which I appreciate because it is easy to emanate negativity and it's much more difficult to create coherence and health and integrity it seems in this world. So this is the experimental setup. He is using a helium neon laser that has internal mirrors which means that and I put this moving little gif in there, means that if you have the DNA probe on the bottom and shine the laser on it, there will be a partial reflection of the laser light that is modulated by the information from the coherent domains or the coherent information on the DNA. And if this goes back and forth, you're beginning to have an imprinted laser beam that is now carrying some of the information of the DNA and if you have healthy cells here, there would be, of course, it would be helpful information. So there is a multi-passages of the laser beam through the tissue or through the solution that is on the bottom here. So this is one of the graphs that they provide in their publications. And that then is stored that signal is recorded. And it is recorded in terms of an audio file. Here we have the laser signal without the sample and here it is reading from the sample. So you can actually see the modulation on it. And what experiments were done is, and it's quite mind-blowing actually. What they did is they were looking at rats that had been poisoned with a poison that destroys the pancreatic function, a loxon, and injecting the rats. And of course, all of the rats become very sick and get diabetes or whatever. And they begin to die and very, very quickly. So they have different groups. One is a control group that is injected with a loxon and the other group is being radiated with that modulated laser beam and of the acoustical file from healthy pancreatic cells of the same species of rats. And when they receive this information, then they do not die. As you see here is the injection of the actual laser pharmaceutical if you want to. It's or the laser vaccine if you want. And the rats begin to get better and their pancreatic levels, their insulin levels, etc. come back to normal and they all survive. So I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. So essentially the setup is a laser pointing directly down vertically down at cells that are healthy. And as that laser is being reflected back and forth, you get a characteristic signature in this laser of the healthy cells. That is converted. That signature is converted to an audio file. And after these rats are injected with a loxon and their pancreatic cells begin to become poisoned and die, they are basically played or they are infused in some sense with the audio of the healthy sample, which imparts something onto those rats such that their pancreatic function is restored. Whereas in the controls, they are not. And this sounds very, very difficult to believe. But I was just thinking as you spoke about this, there is quite good evidence in the literature that things like Mozart, playing Mozart to people, reduces allergic responses. So it's probably not all that far-fetched that audio, something to do with the characteristics of sound waves can actually modulate our responses to certain stresses. Because it's very well known that music even played to plants, for instance, changes the way that they grow. And I think there have been good experiments in latex allergy being mitigated by listening to Mozart, for instance. So maybe this isn't as far-fetched as it first sounds. And this idea that we can pick up a characteristic signature of a healthy cell and recapitulate it over a cell, basically re-imbuse it with the information it needs to restore. Yeah, that was just. Yeah, you were a little bit interrupted. You referred to sonic bloom, didn't you? Whereas sound, dead and certain noise frequencies that are being played to crops and in order to make them grow much more, which absolutely is happening. And also was the new understanding of sound having negative mass, I believe there is a lot to explore that there may. We may actually access, you know, something like the other side of the positive material world through that world of negative mass through sound. And many. All cultures, all cultures have songs. Unfortunately, our culture is no longer singing, no producing sound themselves. We've at the water conference, we both also met Gita Bendavit, who is that magnificent sound healer, and they were destroying tumors over a distance by singing to it, by certain frequencies, producing actually honing in on the frequency of the organism, what it needed and helping to remove the tumor life. It was shown in the video with ultrasound. So sound has a lot to give to us. And if we look at the the cathedrals, the churches, the architecture of all the places around the world, there is acoustical phenomena that are being harvested in order to look at the great pyramid. Look at the hippogium in on Malta, look at the all the ancient stone circles, they all have acoustical properties. So there is something for us to be discovered, most very, very likely. Absolutely. And it sort of gives us an idea that perhaps when we're healthy we could take signature, we could take, you know, a bank of signatures from our healthy cells and potentially use that as a therapeutic if we become ill or, you know, we need to restore some sort of semblance of coherence back to ailing cells. And, you know, the fact that when Gariya was doing this work, his lab was basically ransacked by the people who were funding him after they found out the results he was getting probably speaks volumes to the potential of these types of therapeutics, whether it's resembles his original work or not, there's something to this idea about getting a signature in some sort of wave format, whether that be acoustic or laser. Yes, I mean he told me that story himself and that he came back one day into the laboratory and in Toronto and it was all gone. Everything was gone. He had to recreate a lot back in Moscow and of course people in Russia at that time didn't live with a lot of money. So it's that shakes a scientist like that a lot. You're not in the safety of a university when with all kinds of grants where you can just do your experiments. So that's extremely important what you're saying and what you were also saying is that maybe we should have a library of healthy quantum information of organs and organisms of ourselves. That idea he also had, namely, in another experiment what they did is they kind of injected that laser information preventively to the rats then injected them with the poison and found that all of the rats were able to restore themselves because of a kind of info. It's almost like a it's almost like a vaccination in a positive sense and it opens lots of questions as to what is possible with this technology. What can you radiate? What can you transmit even in audio files these days? We should also think about those aspects. I suppose the flip side of that is sort of using it as a bio weapon in a sense a quantum bio weapon. So you know this is and I had this discussion with Dean Raiden when he was talking about the evidence for things like remote viewing. He said the potential for this to be extremely dangerous is very high and we need to be very careful with the way that we approach investigating these phenomena scientifically because if it falls in the wrong hands it could be absolutely devastating. I know that sounds quite ridiculous that sort of remote viewing and being able to predict future events seems completely wacky and wacky but there is a scientific basis for this and it is growing particularly with the work that people like Dean Raiden are doing but yeah I mean the flip side exists that yes this could be an extremely powerful and potent therapeutic but it could also be used you know someone sends you an email of an audio file with you know something perhaps nefarious on it you know these are also things that need to be done. need to be taken into account? - Yes, for my thinking, of course, I'm not at all surprised about remote viewing. This is one of the research areas I'm also looking at. And I've discovered that remote viewing actually recently I discovered this. Has its origin, of course it has its origin in the ability of the human mind to interact with the vacuum, to interact with hyper dimensions. And it has always been there. However, the remote viewing that we are talking about from Stanford may have its origin in MK Ultra experiments that these experiments of mind control that were done in the 50s and 60s, all were geared to do remote viewing. - Yeah. - In their subjects, in their test subjects, and that, for me, if they are saying they have stopped MK Ultra experiments in the 1970s, which is when remote viewing began as a big experimental series at Stanford, I wonder if they just exchanged one for the other. And if they had enough information about the human mind and about the way of the human being can interact at a distance that they didn't need to have more of the gross experiments any longer. We also know that from Russia, where much of the material that we were discussing today is coming from, there are ways of remote viewing and by the way, Kasnichev, he was researching remote viewing in terms of the causative mirror installation. There's ways of remote viewing, remote influencing by the mind. And remote viewers can find each other in wherever the either or wherever they are meeting, whatever is happening, they can, they actually realize if another remote viewer is there. And so I think this is a very, very important discussion because it shifts and it expands our whole horizon of where we participate. We, if we are satisfied with simply the material, that's fine, but then we may be much more influenceable and manipulative, we can be more easily manipulated if we are not aware of all of our other faculties and reality of what it means to be human and what it means to be a biological organism with that contact, with that connection to a background field that we are only beginning to explore. So perhaps I'm going back to the slides. - Yes, I think it would be pertinent to maybe link this with Luke Montagnier's work if that's coming up on your slides. - Yep, that is coming up right now. So here is simply the where Guy I've published this and I want to say that this has been replicated also. There was a dissertation in 2012 at the State Medical Academy in Nishni, Novgorod, in Russia where Nikolai Kokaya submitted a dissertation with exactly the same experiments and they were showing the same results. - That's amazing. - The professors that were overseeing that dissertation were Irina Mukina, who is, someone who writes about brain networks and controlling of robots by bio-electric signals and someone, another famous person, Sergei Peret-Jagin, who is the main person of ozone therapy in Russia. So I think that the, there is, we all know that in Russia there's a little bit more of this openness to those types of fringe science that we have difficulty talking about here still in the West and these are very well-known figures that are discussing this. - Fascinating. - So with Luke Montagnier, he in fact did something very similar and I really appreciate his work because he has, he's been such a voice of positive research and of opening the mind, even after he has been such a famous person of winning the Nobel Prize for discovery of the HIV and maybe all of this is related. What he was able to do is have DNA information in very high solutions or potentiation in water and filtered so much so that there was actually no more of a physical DNA molecule to be found in the solution. However, it seems that in the water, the information domains and patterns are still stored and this was placed into a generator of seven hertz and it was possible to transmit the DNA information onto other vials which then could reproduce by PCR the actual original DNA molecules or at least assign the signature of that. That is in fact a type of a DNA teleportation of nothing in fact. You are teleporting just the informational pattern to it. So that is a very similar research that was done by Luke Martin Yee and he was publishing this with Dan Doudici and other very important researchers of water and of these effects of DNA transduction through water. Here I have a schematic once again, you have the DNA fragment in one of the solution which then is diluted many times so that there's actually no more physical DNA in it which is then activated with an electromagnetic signal and that then can transmit the phantom again of that information into water and reproduce or materialize reconstitute through PCR the original DNA pattern. The particularly interesting thing about these experiments is that water was the information carrier and that again, getting the same signature, again it was an audiophile that truly emailed from one country to another and then that same audiophile was capable of allowing the reconstitution of the original DNA fragment through water and even though the water that it was reconstituted never had anything to do with the original DNA fragment. The information was transferred to the water through the audiophile and it sounds again quite ridiculous but the overlap between everything we've spoken about so far is so great that what we're starting to see now, when you have one coincidence, yeah maybe it's a coincidence but when you start to have 10 and 20 and then 100, we're no longer talking about a coincidence anymore, there has to be something foundational going on that all of these different experiments are highlighting they're all showing sort of a different angle of the same thing which is this idea that there is sort of a holograph projecting outward not just that DNA is not just physical, there's something beyond the physical whether that's electromagnetic in nature or perhaps a different type of field but all of these experiments are essentially talking about I think the same thing just from a different perspective. - Yes, exactly. It's exactly this and how water and the liquid crystal in water in the body plays a major role in all of this. So I do think that as you're saying something is happening, Bagaia, by the way, has also recapitulated a similar type of a materialization of DNA fragment in through PCR and published this in 2015. So that is after an independent from Luchmontonier. We should still talk about other researchers, I think. I agree. I think. Just a little bit, at least. Yeah, I think Ebner and Shirk, if I've pronounced that correctly, another key piece to what we're speaking about here. And again, sort of just taking a different perspective on the same idea that we're talking about here with a wave genome. I find their work fascinating and personally, until I had been introduced to them through you, I had never heard of this, which is really disappointing because I think this should be much more widely known. And the patterns still exist for these techniques. So this is not fairytale. This actually has happened and is seen to be potentially useful. Yes, you're right. It is disappointing. Just like the treatment of Fritz Pop is disappointing. And Giaia, you know, it's all kind of even Luchmontonier, it's hushed up. It's a side-lined, it is disappointing. Ebner and Shirk, I'm going to show they are two Swiss scientists from Siba Gaiji in Basel, back in the 1980s and 90s. And they discovered something that even went into German television. It was really making some waves here. And then suddenly it was all shut down. Nothing, and it's now being ridiculed and old. But because they were standing scientists and from a big pharmaceutical company in their basic research, it couldn't be denied. And in my video, I show a little clip of what was possible and back then they made a German documentary about it. So here are the two men both soon died after they had come out with this, unfortunately. The son of Mr. Ebner is continuing at least in the German area or in the German world, German speaking world, some of this research and is hoping that people will continue to work with that. What they did is they put into an electrostatic field the eggs of trout or the spores of fern or the reproductive cells of a species. And they treated the, let's say, let's say with the eggs of the trout for a day or for a week. And the reason why they did this is they wanted to see what happens to cells within an electrostatic field because they were looking at developing pacemakers. And they had to do fundamental research on that. And then they let these eggs of the trout develop. And instead of the modern trout phenotype from which they took the eggs, they discovered that the eggs developed into a different type of morphology of the trout. One that lived in Europe 150 years ago, but since had been so much domesticated that he changed. And they also saw the same effect with the fern. Here's the modern type of fern. They had the spores of this fern in the electrostatic field. And when the fern was allowed to grow, it reverted back to a type of a fern that is known to have been in existence millions of years ago because it's there in petrophotrified formations. So what they were all thinking what is possible? How is that possible to go back to an ancient form of a organism? And where is that evolutionary information stored? So they found that the application of an electrostatic field to these germ cells for lack of a better term essentially caused a phenotypic regression. So back to a morphological state that no longer exists but did in the past. Yes. Correct. And the question is how is it possible? So is that yes, it's probable that the time of evolution is stored within the germ cells. But still, why don't we all express that sometimes? Why is there not more of the trout of 150 years ago when the modern trout contains that information? So maybe that the electrostatic field had an influence of perhaps changing how the germ cell resonates or taps into that background information. And therefore was reading something that is not current but that has been years ago, 150 years ago. And I wonder if it's possible to read something from the future as well. It goes back to our remote viewing discussion actually because remote viewing also shows how there is past and future predictions. I believe they did this with crops as well like corn where they were able to basically take the seed, do the same treatment placing it in an electrostatic field that's, you know, of energy that's not native to the earth. So it definitely a man made type of exposure and it was it referred to electrostatic fields up our native. You have electrostatics in in thunderstorms, for example. So it may be it may be more often makes me think it was especially within the atmosphere of the earth. There's a lot of electrostatics in in thunderstorms. Is there some connection to the phenotypes to the morphologies within that electrostatic field of the earth that of all of the organisms that are expressing now. That's interesting. Yeah, I hadn't considered that but yes, the corn essentially is the same as the firm same as the trout reverted phenotypically back to an ancient type of corn that no longer grows. Yeah, which had more of it of those crops, not only a single crop. Very interesting. And that leads us to the final person I would like to show is the work of Sien Kunchen who I for a long time couldn't believe that this is true. Yeah, and I really had difficulty bringing this into my original report about this and video but since then I'm so so happy to have found that this work is being continued. And this is very, very real and also through the work of cousin, she have I know he was speaking about him that that this is real. This is not fake. This is not just fantasy. Sien Kunchen is a Chinese scientist. He was born in 1933 and studied electro electronics and electro engineering and he fled China when the revolution started. He was also imprisoned and he went to Russia and he did very, very interesting experiments with the mixing of organisms of, for example, here we see chicken and geese or duck. And without actual genetic interfering or genetic. contact he was able to produce certain features in the for example here in the chicken of the duck feet the duck webbing or he was able to produce ducks with chicken claws by putting the eggs of the receiving organism into a receiver installation. I show you what it looked like so this was the installation and he had microwaves radiating probably used microwaves for this it's not exactly sure how it is done so I'm glad to have recently found this new contact I'm going to write to them and I want to know more about his the continuation of his work which seems to be now going on in China. For those listening this contraption is a don't-deckerhedron with each surface having a cone sticking out of it it looks looks like quite a bizarre little like Rubik's cube sort of toy but yeah it looks fascinating. I think it looks fascinating and he obviously knew that it is necessary to experiment with certain geometries for the let's say quantum geometry of those trans trans trans transverse of information so in in one area he placed let's say the duck and here he placed inside of the receiving installation the eggs of the chicken and that information was transferred onto the eggs and where the eggs developed the chicken head the webbing between the claws and of course this this really sounds gross and there were other experiments also with corn for example where he showed greater growth or he was able to make an interference between watermelon and cucumber and measurably changed the sugar content in the cucumber and he was also working with such installations for rejuvenation and for healing and it's it's it's a type of work that I hope that will be researched much further is once again the biotron here I'm sitting in Nova Sibias in the Cosmo biotron which is probably based on the inter the communication with San Cunchins work that was used to also do certain forms of healing and medical changes in certain patients and this is the website for those who want to look it's now being continued in China in Chinchu bio and I hope that there will eventually be some type of corporation or at least exchange communication exchange with them that this this man was a student of San Cunchins work apparently it's so fascinating he was able to produce something like a crossbreeding effect without any sort of physical contamination I guess you could say of the genomes but only through through microwaves and the influence of those microwaves on the organism or on the embryo rather yeah yeah let's think about this a little bit because nowadays we think we have to do CRISPR and we have to do you know mix the genes and to create something new that may be a very wrong and dangerous approach when things are actually happening within the field information and not so much in the biochemical contact or material field and if we continue along this road perhaps we are in fact interfering so much with the genome by all kinds of mRNA and CRISPR technologies that who knows if we still can use our DNA as that antenna for the design that is human I think you said it best when you said tapping into it does really seem like the DNA is basically a way in which we can tap into a field of information and all of these experiments that we've discussed all suggest that that is perhaps a logical endpoint as to what DNA really is and what this or this wave genome is about is like you said not only in antenna but also a transmitter a bidirectional communication with some sort of field that contains information not only of the present but also of the past and maybe future and like you said you know the possibilities of the forward era of time being involved you know clearly this goes well above my you know beyond my capacity to understand but what is clear is that there are enough inconsistencies as we've shown with the experiments we've discussed with the with the current regime the current dogma that we need to start investigating you know other ways in which DNA could be exerting influence and I think this idea of an antenna that taps into a field of information is not so far fetched as it sounds when you look at the work that has been done over the last 50 plus years yes and the work which is being done now I don't think we have the time to to go into Mike Levin's work but it with there are people who are looking at developing that paradigm and who are proving literally you beyond this shadow of a doubt that morphology and perhaps more than morphology even with functionality of the organism may not be in in a material genes but needs that whole chromosome continuum needs that whole grating mechanism and needs the field reality as Mike Levin is doing with again with electromagnetic and the voltage potentials along the membranes changing those voltage potentials changes the morphology and is able to produce new limbs and even eyes somewhere else on the party I mean imagine this this this is work and I know you're going to present this and interview him in the future which need to know it and find our own space within that whole if you want holographic universe and and understand that if we don't grasp this someone else will grasp it from us or grab it from us and we might be exposed to all kinds of manipulations if we don't understand this in a positive way as a type of knowledge that belongs to everybody and because it changes my whole perception of myself of my of my body and of my interaction with other bodies and with other living organisms and it actually makes life more beautiful and more inspiring I couldn't agree more I really think that having such a deep appreciation for what nature has done and the absolute work of art that the human body and and all all living organisms are really makes you know it's very funny you know I think about this a lot that everyone in this health space there's not an atheist to be found and the reason is I think because we have such a deep appreciation for what we can't understand what is just so far beyond the intellect you know the wisdom of nature that there has to be something greater than ourselves and and I couldn't agree more with you that having these ideas and thinking about it deeply the way that we are trying to do only makes life richer even though at times it can make it more difficult at the same time but this has been such a wonderful conversation and I'm so glad that we've had the opportunity to go through all of the and I commend anyone who's listened to from start to finish and I hope people watch and I will make sure to link everything that we've discussed in the notes so that people can access it easily. But again, I think the best place to start would be your Celery Report documentary because there's so much wonderful information in there and graphics and videos that really tie all of this together so I'll make sure that all of the relevant links we spoke about are easily findable and I so so appreciate the work you're doing. It's been such a pleasure meeting you and having this conversation. It's been a real pleasure for me, Cameron, and you are wonderful host. You know so much more and you have such an ability to summarise things beautifully so I will also make sure that your website is being found and people go to your interviews. Thank you so much, Cameron. Thank you so much for listening. I really hope you enjoyed the conversation. If you want more, I have an additional solo podcast available on my substack expanding further on my conversation here with Ulrich. I've left a selection of relevant links in the description if you'd like to learn more about Ulrich's work and our discussion topics. Again, if you'd like to support my work, please consider subscribing to my substack as it is where I share most of my thoughts and insights that go beyond the scope of this podcast. Make sure you follow me on x and instagram so that you don't miss a post or a podcast. Thanks again for listening everyone. Take care. [Music]