UFO's

Find your favorite podcast on VRT-Max. Radio 1. I know a lot. With Colbe Ilse. Guys, I'm excited in the coming hour. You know, we're curious and curious. And how can you be more curious than about UFOs? Yes, I'm really happy. I have a book with me written by Friedrich de Lare and Wim van Utrecht. Friedrich is with me. Good afternoon. It's a lively book. UFOs don't believe in what we think and see. And what we really see in Borghorov and Lamberigs. A nice view with a lot of pictures with QR codes with links to films. It's a visual phenomenon, of course. This is radio, so we'll have to talk about it a lot. What did you first and foremost bring to the idea of writing a book about UFOs? Was it your own reputation? Because that's a quick way to get rid of UFOs as Zod. Yes, that's right. Especially in the early days. We see a positive evolution and that it's been taken seriously over the last few years. For example, people are waiting for the KMU, which we never got before, to present the phenomenon. And that's a positive evolution that we see. The phenomenon means people who see something. Yes, that's right. Because UFOs are an identified flying object. An unidentified flying object. So we see something, or people see something, but we can't explain what exactly it is. Yes, indeed. We try to make the UFOs an identified flying object. Nice, nice, nice. Does that always work or not? Very often it does. Okay. We've been waiting a long time. I think a quarter of the messages we get are too few. So people who don't answer our questions, we can explain the other messages in a very large amount. It's 1.3% that remains unexplained. Dum-dum-dum. And with the unexplained, we're not unexplainable. We think there may be a difference in every value, but... For clarity, for example, the critical voices in a pan-crypt of "Who are you going to answer now?" On Radio 1, you are from the Belgian UFO report. It's an official instance where people can report things. You also received a lot of prizes. You're awarded for your scientific work, so you're not out of your ectole. I'm just saying it as a disclaimer, because there's a lot of conspiracy theories about aliens and what else. So we're dealing with a man who understands things. I'll read a very brief background. The Belgian UFO report every year gets hundreds of messages from people who think there's something unexplainable they've seen in the sky. Often, they even say a flying bullet, an alien space vehicle they've spotted. We're going to dive in there. And is it not the American president who's talking about UFOs in the most popular podcast world? Yes, of course. Which is a very fast plant. The American president. He was in execution mode, so he was at Joe Rogan. He's also a non-Soviet UFO-lover. If you like that, he's interviewed a lot of people. So the American president says he's talking to jet pilots, pilots of fighter planes, and they've told him they've seen a bullet. So it's time that it's purely in the science fiction or in the true la la of the Sotten, the half-psychedelic boys who look at the sky and see everything. That time is over. As the official American president says, there's everything. Yes, indeed. And they see a bullet in the air. The best Friedrich Delare of the Belgian UFO-melt. What can a bullet be in the air that goes five times faster than an F-22? Because you like to explain that to everyone. What is that? Indeed. He had a hard time hearing about that. If there are images of it, of course you can do that. For example, the radar, the board radar of the devices, they also record speeds and directions and so on. So with these things, you can explain a little bit. But of course, with the simple test. And that's a bit of a problem, what we see here in Belgium, because 90% of the reports we get are accurate. You have to trust how well people can take things. There's something wrong with the eyes, in what condition those people are in. They're in a car. And then how... What state are they in? Are they drunk? Did they take something else? Yes, but most of the time they're not. Not drunk? - No, no, that's not true. You don't often get messages like that. But of course, I have that observation. And that's what you have to do most of the time. If we search for a message, the bullet has already flown. That's hard, isn't it? But according to what you see, it's a good evolution. With the smartphone, there are many photos and videos. I just wanted to say, actually, when you see something, you're going to take pictures. - Yes, most of the time. We get a lot of pictures in a year, and that helps us a lot. Because most of the time, what someone writes, what they see, is completely different from what's on the pictures, for example. Give us an example. Yes, if someone says, "I have a big white cloud seen above the clouds," and then he films that, what is it about a light spot that appears under the clouds? On the clouds, actually. Yes, like a party somewhere a little further, like a spot in the air. - "Skyt Racer". How do you call that? - "Skyt Racer". And normally, these things are forbidden. Then you ask for it, of course. But we see a rise every year on the news of the "Skyt Racer" in our country. I've always thought about it. Wow, it's stupid that I tell you, but it's really a bomb. I saw like 10 or 12 lights on the train, and it really hits in a straight line, and it shoots pretty quickly through the air. I said, damn it, what is that? And two minutes later, SMS, my brother, Stein Ilsen, space engineer and the man who is talking about it, he says, "Now look, the Starlink satellites from Elon Musk, they all fly in formation." Or not at all, but anyway, there is a hope that they will now fly over. So they were the Starlinks. But I thought, if you don't know that now, if I don't get that information from my brother now, then I think, "Huh?" Indeed. What did you see then, during the corona crisis? Yes. We got more than 400 reports that year. And that was the combination with the Starlink satellites from Elon Musk. So everyone was at home in lockdown. It was very clear during that period. And the first time they saw those 60 satellites and that train passing by, and then they were overtaken by UFO reports. I wasn't alone. Oof, oof, how do they reach you then? Mostly on the website. That's ufo-meld.be, correct. And that's the formula. First, they had to go via an IFO database. If you search for "Ufo-meldens" you get an IFO database. And then there are, I think, 30, 40 explanations for UFOs on this site. Oh, a little bit like, "Is this what we already know?" That's it, you shouldn't report it to the public. And when people see it from that page, they say, "No, that wasn't it, it was something else." They can fill in their formula. And then there are a number of questions about data, time, direction. Wait, I just went to the website. And so a number of UFO reports since the start, I just read it before, in 2007, 4,045. That's not a lot, right? UFO reports, 20, 25, 145. The last warning, 2 August, 20, 25, 23, 34. Go for a white tip as a train to each other. That could be the Starlink. - Exactly, that's right. And do you sometimes think of mannequins? Yes, again the same thing. Yes, we are mainly looking for the warning of close-ups. That starts to interest us more, because that thing is one that you can't just explain. And that's the challenge for us to investigate these things. I clicked on "Ufo-meldens" and then you first get "drone". Yes, the example of the UFOs, what you said, from the first list of this we all know. Do you really think that people from those toy drones or from those camera drones... Yes, absolutely, because last week, or two weeks ago, we received a message from the Netherlands. And there was a lady who claimed, and that's not the first time we've had that, that there is a light in a bedroom. They also hear a sound, so that someone is indeed going to beep at the neighbour or through the window. We agreed to go on with that, if that still happens. Okay, and after the drone, there is the "verhees-delta". And if you see the picture next to it, you would indeed want to be able to think that that is something... Yes, that's right. ...that is identifiable. I try to guess, it's a sort of three-sided, heart-shaped thing in the air that flows. Yes. - What exactly is that? Well, a number of years ago, we received a lot of messages from a sort of three-sided, indeed, as we said, three-sided statement, that sometimes a sports plane flew with it. And we wrote a number of air intakes, some didn't react as if they said, "I'm from the UFO-mallpoint." But there was one who reacted, and said, "We know that statement." "It rises regularly." And that was indeed the "verhees-delta". It's a small plane designed by engineer Bart Verhees from Limburg. And he built it himself. He flies around with it. And that's sort of for your messages, sometimes, yes. Just a moment ago, I was walking off in a plane helicopter. That seems logical. Indeed, a helicopter, especially at night, are lights on atypical places. I think on the wings a little bit, or on the outings, or something like that. I can imagine that indeed. The list goes further, indeed, satellite or the ISS. Because the ISS, the space station, when it flies over, it's very bright. - Yes, it's very bright, and it doesn't hang that high. So you can really see that pass. Then the starlink-satellite train. Starren planets, meteors, of course. But that doesn't happen so often, does it? No, indeed, because they are very visible, of course. That's two or three seconds. But we once got a picture of a dashcam. Someone who filmed a light in the fall, very quickly. And that was a meteor. But it turned out that it was downfall in the Netherlands. Waterland on Broekheet, the municipality. And it's somewhere in the museum now. And it's very coincidental that that man was able to film with his dashcam. Then the list is long. A toy balloon, light or fire balloon, a foil balloon, those are those... Aluminium metal-shaped outer balloons. Has anyone ever really sent that message to you? I've seen something, while it's an air balloon. Absolutely, but no ordinary light balloons. You can see it. Yes, but still, from a distance, from the distance in the car, people really forget themselves in the simplest things sometimes. A dashcam, I also see a light or a light or a black balloon. The plastic bag. Yes, that's right. We once got a picture of it. In Brussels, someone who was in his office and saw an object that made strange movements. He filmed it and it turned out to be just a plastic bag that flew with the wind. It was a glider, bird, insect, but the list is long. So you have already been able to identify a field for the lens. If you take a photo, in a hall or a light cell. But it's gigantic. A fall. Now we are there. Because, especially with AI, create a picture of Flanders with the UFO flying. And you have one. And start to explain that. Is that a test at the moment? Do you get a lot of such things in or not? No, I think in our career now with the milestone of 2017, that there have been 20 crashes in. Yes, but luckily, we keep it that way. But these things, people often fly through the man. Because, as you said, when you send a photo, we need a story there. Then we will interview the people in the background. Should things be right? If it's not right, then it's not right, of course. Yes, how do you do that? So you get that message. I don't mind that you first go out of the image material. But if there is no image material, you will then ask a phone number. Are you going to contact those people? Or how do you do that? Most of that happens via mail. So on the other hand, from what they write down, we already know a free flight, what is there in the air. They say, also the time, if they say in the tip. The UFO went there for two or three hours in the quiet air. Then you can go and look for things in the direction of a star or a planet. And we really don't know, we will join the questions first via mail. Where we will not take that place, we will really interview those people, we will take a look at the place, if there is something on the edge. What the UFO message may cause. I also have it in the environment. Sometimes leading to an UFO warning. So you are going to sit in a garden somewhere, in the evening? Now in the evening, in the afternoon. In the afternoon too? - Yes, of course. Most messages are still at night, right? No, that's a bit... - Okay. I'm going to look at it right away, actually. So you're going to sit in that garden and you're still waiting for it? No, no, that's not it. Okay, we're going to look at it slowly. Where did you see something? Imagine now, we never received a message from, I thought, Leuvensen, that someone had seen five light points in the air for two or three hours. And it turned out there was a crane with lighting on it. So if you didn't think that it was at night, that the man was seen in the light, you went out in the morning, but then they were gone, because it was a mobile crane. But imagine that the crane was still there. Then you could say, "Oh, that was your maneuver that you saw there from the morning." And you say, "From 95% to 99% we can explain it, but there's always one percent left." That's right, and that makes it interesting. Have you ever really sat with your hands in your hair? What is this? Yes, absolutely, certainly. Yes, a message that you can't bring home. Like? Yes, a nice case is one from Bunde, just over the border in the Netherlands. And there was a man on the jogging along a channel, the Juliana channel. And at some point he stopped, to get his ass off the car. So I thought, and then he saw a school building behind the trees. A really typical flying school, so to speak. There was a rainbow in it. On the other hand, it was a bit of a form of an euro drawing. I thought that was a bit suspicious, because it gave itself away in 2002. It was short, when the euro also appeared in our country. But good, so that UFO was hiding in the bedding of the channel and it followed him for a while. It stood about two metres under it. There was the UFO in the distance, we were going to fly away and then suddenly the height suddenly jumped in. And that's a message we never declared, but there are a number of problems. The big problem is that the man was alone, so... In a picture or in an experiment? No, he was on the jogging, no GSM, that was a bit before the period. And then we posted letters, I think 500 letters in that area, also in a place where a call was made. And that man said, "I saw that object." So you're going to say it was a LAPS one? No, why did that man interview twice? He also posted it. We had a step-by-step, the whole message was exchanged with that man. And it sounded very convincing. It wasn't a sensation, because he wanted to see a name somewhere. So yes, we don't know. Did something or not fly away? There are some questions coming in, for example, about Area 51 and those things. And let's get to the point. A few years ago, not so long ago, in the Senate, an official research committee, that suddenly asked people to ask questions about UFOs. Or in America, they said, "Frederick, UAPs." What is a UAP? An Identified Anomalous Phenomenal. And that's a big difference. Yes, a big difference. Because under anomalous, you can understand Bigfoot or geese. And that's why we don't use that term. UFOs are about flying objects, UAPs are about things that aren't explained. But that hearing, that hearing, was quite spectacular, with high positions from the American camp. A small montage. I know the exact locations. Former military intelligence officer David Grush testified he suspects the Pentagon is covering up a decades-long program to retrieve crashed objects. Do you believe that our government is in possession of UAPs? Absolutely, based on interviewing over 40 witnesses over four years. The Pentagon has denied Grush's claims. And then there was the uncorroborated testimony. The U.S. is in possession of alien material from crashed UAPs. Biologics came with some of these recoveries, yeah. Most of all, I'd like to tell you that these are high-ranking military and American campers who effectively say, "We are in possession of disfigured rooms." Or UAPs, but it's really called that. And at the end of the day, Commander Crouch, or so it's called, is fairly high in the camp. He says, "We even have biological matter." I'd like to tell you that we also have a body or an entity that was in those things. These are not whittling hippies. These are real official military officers. Yes, that's right. Friedrich Lari, you studied these UFOs for years. What do you make of these things? Well, in my opinion, about 30 shots have been shot down. And the entire history of the UFO phenomenon is 47. I wonder where the evidence of the shots have been. But they don't want to give you the prize. No, that's all more complicated. But Crouch, who will soon be at war, says, "I can't give you all the information "because I'm bound to a non-disclosure agreement. "I can't tell you anything." You're invited to a different place, not in the open. And they sent him two or three investigations. He never went there. Because they say, of course, they prove their evidence. We think that if you do a criminal case, you have to be able to prove it with criminal evidence. But you know Ungetwijfeld-Boppelizar? - Yes. That's also a figure. At the end of the '80s, the man comes out and says, "I worked in Area 51." Area 51 for the people who aren't there. What exactly is that? It's a military base in Ergendenwurstijn in Nevada. And the American government has always said it doesn't exist. That's nothing to do with it. Until there was no evidence that the base was there. And there, the last new aircrafts were developed and tests were carried out there in the desert. For example, the B2 bomber, who now leaves Iran, who dropped bunker busters, is a very futuristic thing. That's what happens in other countries. So I can imagine, if you see that for the first time, without knowing that it exists, you'll be shocked. But so Ungetwijfeld-Boppelizar, also a sensible man, when you hear him say, "I worked in that area and I worked on those facilities." He's talking about back-engineering. Because when it was made by America, we didn't have to look at back-engineering. He wanted to look at it and say, "How did they put it together? We're not going to try to reconstruct it." That's right, yes. That's it. When you read the interview, he says so many detailed things. He also talks about a certain chemical element, where there was no talk about whether it existed in the meantime. 15 or something, if I'm not mistaken. Yes, proof, that's what we need. But he says, "When is the proof?" If it's really the green moon in front of us? Yes, and then they can say, "It's insane to put this in a real man." No, even if the government comes in front of it, and many people say that the government is more in compliance with nature, especially proof material, we need. And that has been the reason. Why would a government like to keep that secret? We don't think so. We don't think that the government doesn't do it either. What comes in with the media is the same as what comes in with the government. Yes, because the air force also has a radar. It also has eyes in the air. That's right. And yes, if they don't know, we don't know either. It's all a bit the same. People think that you can't forget a government that doesn't have scientific institutions, that doesn't investigate the air force. If something is spotted here in the airfield, it's a threat. If they don't know what that is, it's a threat. So the air force keeps the air in the air? Yes, absolutely. And if they see what a threat is, they will be sent to the air force. That was during the Bellse-Ufoholf 1989-90, just the same. So on 30th, on the 30th of March 1990, there was also something wrong. And there were a number of terrorists, as it started, who saw a number of light points. It was then determined by two raiders on the ground. I have a sound source, so it's nice to hear that. In Wallonia, there is a real UFO-mania. People turn day and night to the heavens, in search of unidentified flying objects. And there are assumptions inside. Amongst amateur stars, scientists, rich black people themselves, collective mind-boggling, according to some. There are also descriptions of all parameters, about what you can see on this amateur film. A secret light-gift triangle, that flies at low altitude without noise. And that separates military observational devices, like radar and infrared cameras. Of course, that alien, that can't work, that can't work. Yes, I didn't think so. - Sorry, back to the story. End of the 80s. - Yes, indeed. And at night, 31, 31, on the 30th of March 1990, there were a number of terrorists on the ground, who saw the light points in the air. Simmershaken, radar, Simmershaken and Glayen. They picked that up, so there's a lot of stuff in the air. Then the final air force was 2 aircrafts and 2 F-16s. Before you're that pilot. - Yes, that's fantastic. So I thought, nine times, lock on to that object. So they can lock it with a radar, but it accelerates enormously. And also the altitude. It goes down in a few seconds, 900 meters. And at some point, even under the ground. So it turned out there was something wrong with the radio radars of the F-16s. But that doesn't matter to the big clock, because of course you don't want to say... So both F-16s record that? Yes, and then they say there's a fault in both systems? The one F-16 has the other F-16, even in the lock on at some point. That went wrong, but it didn't hit it. The other F-16 has already hit everything, and then they saw that something wasn't right with those radars. And the big problem was... - You said you didn't work with the radar, but you saw a lot of people who saw it on the ground, including Rijkswachtersass, who couldn't trust it anymore. But the problem is, as a board radar of an F-16, that something is to be seen, that it has to be fixed visually by the pilots, and that never happens. That was the big problem. But what were those three light points in the air? Do we know that? No, for a number of reports, there were reports of star planets, but a big part wasn't revealed. So it could have been something. Yes, but I'm convinced that the UFO-golf of '89 and '91 has to be removed now, because we have a lot more images than we have with image materials. In 1955, in Lothenölle. In 1955, on July 21st, the national holiday, I was 18 years old, sent to the Belgian Congo. We came here, there were people from '87, neighbors. And they were looking up, and we stopped and looked up. And five UFOs, information from east to west. And I thought they were under, or maybe more, a meter, a piece. And they moved from east to west, above the road. And I suspect that if they were on the road, all the people, including you, would have been able to observe. And 10 minutes on the speed of the cyclists. Two from the front and two from the rear. I think that's so good. The speed of a cyclist. A cyclist, I guess. We'll copy that on your website as... -One of the explanations. -One of the explanations of a cyclist. But 1955 was full of hype. -When was it? -It was '47. '47, a couple of years later. Do we know what that was? I hear him say, "On the national holiday, there will have been some fireworks." Yes, there will be some airplanes in the air, of course. But there are a number of problems with Maran's recording here. Maran claims that the five people... Maran is the lead of the person we just heard. That the sun was shining on those shots again, it was a bright day. We asked VATKMD for the 21st of July '55. It was a dark, rainy day, so it was almost rainy all day. So that's not true. There would have been one other test, but we never found that man. So we suspect that 20 people, as he claims, also saw him on the street. -Never found him? -Never found him. And the very bizarre thing is that Maran says he only remembers Maran five years later. Tomorrow he wakes up, an hour is up at 3-3-3. He wakes up and remembers that he saw him in '55, on July 21, '55. -Hmm. -A little bit for us. -No, that's nothing. -No. That's nothing. Of course, '55 still doesn't say anything about photography. And Neil deGrasse Tyson also says that he's an American scientist. A scientist, a communicator, very, very good. He also says this about the current UFO images. It would catch spaceships that are not airplanes moving on our surface. If we were being visited, I'm thinking we'd have something better than fuzzy, monochromatic video of objects that apparently reveal themselves only to Navy pilots, right? -There's a point. -Yes. There are so many cameras, so many satellites. There's so much looking at the air, radar systems. No, that's also where we want to go. We'll look at it with police services, if that's possible. Imagine someone seeing a shot of a camera close by, and it happens in an environment where a camera is hanging from a company. And that can be determined if we can see those images through police services. -Of course. -Then the man doesn't see it. But is there something in the air? So is this a call from give-ons-to-hang or give-all-the-instant? We have to think about privacy, of course. But if there's a real message, give-ons-to-hang to control the camera that would be able to see that. Yes, indeed. That's the fantastic... I'm not sure, but if someone sees a spectacular UFO and those images... There are actually pretty good images of things filmed by a real F-16 pilot or a fighter pilot who is somewhere above in the air with his own lens. They're very special. So there's also pretty good image material. Yes, there are relative images, actually. But most of the images can be explained. Not everything, like I said, is one percent. And what do we have to do with that one percent? What's your personal opinion? What are the Chinese technologies that we don't know yet? Are the Americans... They say, "It's not a propulsion system." It's a sort of closed-down ball, or it's an equal thing. Now the air is shooting, without any smoke or anything. Now they say that. In the 1940s, shooting with sticks and ladders... That's also something we see. The phenomenon evolved with time. In the 1940s, we didn't see that. Things that... We always saw details, a window, a bowl. And now we don't see that anymore. Also, landings are completely lost. In the 1970s, there were even UFO landings here in Belgium. UFOs that landed, men that stepped out, that's all gone. That doesn't come before, and that's also a bit strange. So you say, "Variations vary or change over time." Because of what people might have seen on television, or what. There's certainly an influx of science fiction films, like the ones we hear in the beginning of the program. But still, imagine an object without a propulsion system. Without a system that actually takes care of it, it has steam. That's a balloon. You're programmed to shoot it all down. But could it be possible that there's a certain country, technology, that the heavy force is working against it? That's the theories, the anti-gravity systems. There's material that's not being pulled through by the weight, but that can be used to shoot it all down. There are stories that say that the Nazis had that technology. The Nazis? - Yes. Hitler would still have lived after the war. He would fly his day to the South Pole. And he has the same basis. - You make this ridiculous. No, no, no. But those are things that have been taken seriously by some people. That's a shame, actually. Is there something scientific about those things without propulsion systems? Could that be possible with magnetism? Or is that something you know? There are things produced by the Lockheed Martins, the Nazis. That we just can't do. - That we don't know. We can do that, that it exists somewhere, that they work on it. And there are observations about the whole world. Antiquels are around Roswell, or this or that. Are those the same things that are seen in different places in the world? I understand your question. Yes, that's striking. In Europe, as in South America, as in North America, they see exactly the same ball or that thing. Yes, because that happened in the past. Like the UFO-Holfen-Belgium, the three-way train. It took a while to get there than in England. It's the same three-way train, actually. So it was something that was something similar. It's still going on. Do you have contact with your colleagues in the outside world? Yes, contact. We're in a European forum with, I think, a hundred researchers who have been working with UFOs for years. And then we can ask our questions about what these are, picture them, share them with each other, to try to explain it, most of the time. And also with the largest countries worldwide, is there one percent unexplainable? Yes, I'm talking about Belgium. Worldwide, how many percent is there? I think that's about the same amount as in Belgium. Friedrich comes in with a question. The grain circles. That was also in the nineties, when I was young. Yes, in the eighties and nineties. Was that all of a sudden something that was going on? Yes, that's right. But you said there's a UFO-Holfen-Belgium, and it left that mark behind. Yes, there are traces of UFOs, but grain circles are different, of course. Grains were the first simple circles. And in the past, there were very complex figures, often western figures and so on. And I think you have to be careful, because it's all human work. Right. You can do that in a wrong way, which also affects... If you look at those figures, if you look at their photos, they usually start to trace the tractor, because it's easier for them to dig the field to leave no traces. But then you do that without a tractor, come on! No, the traces are already from the tractor, and then they go in to dive the field. Oh, yes, that way. To leave no footprints, with a stick in the middle, and a rope and plank, you can do that in a wrong way. It's special that it doesn't happen anymore, because probably everyone has gone through that. Yes, it's stopped again, just like the alien abductions, also in the 90s, people who were taken with them by aliens. So it was a tenth of a year in hype, especially in the VS, that people had experienced, they saw all the same creatures, gray men, big, big, black eyes. And suddenly they disappeared again, that phenomenon. Yes, you heard them, also Ken Bucklemore, a famous hip-hop artist who has already said in a radio show, "I have been carried away by aliens for six years, and that's why I became a musician." Yes, you did something good with aliens. Yes, and of course it's too clear that it's not, that it's not possible. But let's just fantasize. Tell us, you didn't doubt that you've been looking at the heavens since you were fifteen, so you want to say that you're curious. Yes, absolutely. And who is curious also fantasizes, because you have the science and the research, but you also have the human curiosity. And what does he say to you after all those years to look up, to look at photos, to look at UFOs? What do you say? Yes, it remains a mystery and it attracts people. The unknown, people in the book always say, "Now imagine that there was space for brothers to eat, to come here and protect us." Because there are certain stories, people who say, "Thanks to the aliens, we still live." They have already caused us many wars or major incidents. Yes, I think that people will always say, "We're going to the unknown, that's what it's about." Is there actually also been UFO sightings in the Middle Ages? That's described in the old age, do you get it? Is that something of this time since the Second World War? Yes, yes, that's right. It's a bomb that has been seen a lot, so to speak. Because you still have the sighting of that rock, but I don't know if it's true in the pyramids, that there are sightings of rocks with those three lights in the air. Yes, a lot of the things from the old age are going to be lost. People who are dealing with UFOs, I think even a vice-word of the state, from their education to UFOs, are going to see things in there. They probably won't be there. They're going to give their own interpretation of what is going on in those art works, the painting, for example. In our book there is a nice example of a painting of earth, "Dope of Christ," and there is a shield, apparently a shield above the dome, and there is a small, strange point in the middle. And you also see some light rays coming out of the UFO on that dome. But what is to be seen on that painting, that is a shield indeed, it stands in front of the sun and the dome is the Holy Ghost. But on the other hand, because that shield is a little out of perspective, you can indeed see a flying shield in there. But if you look at the painting from a different period, that will represent it, then it is indeed only about representing the Holy Ghost and the sun, the carrier of life. But you will find that necessary to go around with your own theory. We are of the opinion that you have to leave that out, the explanation of such a painting by an art historian and not by an ufologe. So there is no 1% report that is not explained in the history or described by... Yes, it may be, we don't say that. I don't think the modern ufologee, as we have said, in the beginning of the 24th of June '47, people have also seen things like that before. Blixham Donder used to be something that was unexplained, something that people saw. Yes, of course. We see a puber in the Middle Ages, without the knowledge of meteors that come down, and there is a light flash with a star falling out of the sky. Yes, hello. - Indeed, yes. We also quickly called Elon Musk and this is what he said about aliens. There's either a lot of aliens or no aliens. Either one is equally terrifying. Meaning if there are no aliens, then what we have here is very rare. And then odds are... - I think no aliens is more terrifying. I think it's more likely, though, right? If the universe is 13.8 billion years old. I have not seen any aliens. And I think I know. He hasn't seen anything yet. But he says it's maybe more creepy or scary. Scary. The Netherlands is difficult. More scary than there should be anything. And that also has a point. - Yes, definitely. So I think there has to be something to live on. It's almost impossible for us to be the only one in this big universe of life. What do you make of this week's start? A Harvard-led scientist. Not a hippie who has been killed too much. A Harvard-led scientist has seen something on the edge of our Milky Way. And he says, this can't be. This can't be an object that flies through the cosmos because of gravity. Because this delay, this does this, this does that. This only has a 0.00015% chance that it's natural. Yes. - What do we do with that? Yes, that has to be investigated, I would say. It is, Professor Avi Leup, I think. Yes, yes. But he has already done some criminal activities. He has made a very long-term forecast that, according to him, he is in an unnatural way. And he has made that known to the person. He also made a book about it and sold it well. And his colleagues were not satisfied with that. Because they also say that the object can be prevented or sent forward by gases, and that it is a comet effect. And then you can... A explosion on that stone can give an increase or delay. Delay, yes. God, that's actually... Yes. - Think twice. The object is called 3I Schuynstreep Atlas. Maybe it will appear later, that it is Mr. The Nelian... Yes, that's possible. - ...that you can still drink, as they have done in their sketch brilliantly. We have a minute, Fredrik, let's get rid of your own work. UFO, don't believe what we think and what we really see. People who find this fascinating, what advice would you give them? Of course, YouTube with many films, but where are you going to watch them? Yes, I'll watch it with YouTube, and it's a lot of sensation. It's important that you go as close as possible to the source, to the viewer. And we always try to post neutral information on our website. There are a lot of publications that people can read and then form their own opinion. No one is going to give an opinion. We don't decide anything, we let everything open. It's a mystery for a part, one percent remains a mystery. And we keep that in mind. How old are you now? - I'm 43. I'm 15 now. Will you ever know the answer? I hope so, but I doubt it. It's already more than 80 years since I've been working with you. Who knows? I'll thank you for this hour. It's very nice. And keep doing your work, especially, Fredrik de Lare. Do you want to know more? You'll find many more topics, as I know many. In the podcast on 4T Max.