UFO Researcher Reveals Location of UFOs - UAP Gerb | DEBRIEFED ep. 78

I mean, I'll try to cut down on as many acronyms as I can. - No, please, I need all the acronyms today. - Okay, so in the short form, these Western ranges comprise MRTFBs, including the UTTR NTTR in Edwards-Bort-12th test wing for CBR&E or chemical, biological, nuclear, AFTC, the SAF-AQ SAF acquisitions RCO in conjunction with SAF-A, the administrative assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force, and AFTE, Air Force Test and Evaluation, specifically AFTEZ, special program, thinner T&E. - I never mind, I'm gonna walk back everything I just said. So, okay, so break that down for me, please. - Let me just say this, I'm speculating, I'm playing a character here. It's all for good fun and games. DNI, Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper, and his PDDNI, Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence, Stephanie O'Sullivan, we're not only aware of the crash retrieval issue, but also managed it in a senior capacity, and this is under the Obama administration. The man who would have briefed Obama, that briefed Obama on all sorts of intelligence activities, a man by the name of Michael Dempsey. And then he now, of course, is a senior vice president for government affairs at where else but North of Crummon. There seemed to be a coordinated effort to set up a presidential candidate as the disclosure president. That would have been the next democratic incumbent after Obama, Hillary Clinton. In my opinion, the ATIP program was an informal working group, not a real program, besides anything written on a couple pieces of paper. The man at the helm was Lou Elizondo. The age of disclosure now in those figures, specifically put off Elizondo and Eric Davis, and Jay Stratton, are trying to present a false and incomplete UFO legacy program outlining. You know, I spent about 18 to 20 months both vetting this guy and trying to get in contact with him. I call him Ed. This is a pretty senior Air Force intelligence official who claimed to work in what is called the Hidden Wing. His position was test evaluation, test director, for derivative technologies, meaning airframes that utilize one or more components of non-human intelligence craft. ARV, as we like to call it, full-scale alien reproduction vehicles, and on two instances, craft that were a non-human make. I'm basically reaching out to share a specific, high-strangers encounter that occurred during my 10-year as a contractor for a tier one unacknowledged set program, or special access program. My intent is to provide a data point that might align with other testimonies regarding intersection of advanced aerospace platforms and non-human intelligence. I guess the context is while supporting a late-night sortie for a low observable, high altitude ISR platform, I stepped away from the mission operations room to a separate skip to complete task on my secure terminal. And it was passed midnight at that point, and I was so occupant of the room. I became aware of a presence in the room without hearing the distinct heavy click of the skip door. And I observed the person, or an individual, same size as an average person, I guess, standing by a locked GSA approved document safe, and this safe required weekly updates of the codes. So only a very few people knew about it. The person or figure wore like a really tight-fitting, blue uniform, and had a small, I guess, like a motorcycle helmet almost except it was illuminated from the inside, so I couldn't see any sort of face. I looked at this person and I said, how did you get in here? And in my mind, it was like a thought, you're not supposed to be here, your kind are playing with fire, and then immediately the implication was, to me, a direct critique of specific technologies or components that we integrated into the platform. In my professional guess, it's the characteristic, suggesting non-conventional origin. In any way, immediately following the message, the figure, e-materialized. And if it was like just he was standing there, and then almost like what you see on Freaking Star Trek, he just went away, saved it away. In any way, I don't know if it was a projection or an entity. I'm sharing this because I believe the push for disclosure is necessary. I'm a contractor, so I don't get special whistleblower protections. The development may be more entangled with NHI, then it's publicly understood. (upbeat music) ♪ Not a smoke just a little centered pleasure ♪ ♪ Since '47 we've been freshening the air of majestic ♪ ♪ Little moment anytime, anywhere ♪ ♪ Majestic ♪ ♪ Majestic ♪ ♪ So sweet, it looks like a swing ♪ ♪ But it's incense treat, sage in the study ♪ ♪ Lavender by night, rose merry rise ♪ ♪ And everything's right, majestic ♪ ♪ Majestic ♪ ♪ Light and sea, a breath of calm for you and me ♪ ♪ Majestic incense, classified since 1947 ♪ - Welcome back. Thank you so much for having me, Chris. It's an honor to be back. Thanks for coming. We're joining us on the, it's probably nothing tour. We've had you two dates at this point, which is really cool. We haven't done Montreal, that'll be tomorrow, but by the time people see this, get to hang out with George St. Pierre. - Oh, I am beside myself excited for that. - Yeah. And it's my honor. It's a real treat to be considered to be here with you guys, you and Jesse, the Austin show was unbelievable. I don't know how you guys got that, the show to come together like that. I'll remember the crowd pop when Bob walked out. You and I talked about, you talked about trying to freeze time in that moment to remember that core memory as Bob walked out and the crowd was on their feet, giving a standing ovation. I tried to do the same. It was just such an incredible boyhood dream to shake hands with Bob on stage. - Yeah, I mean, it was awesome to see your face light up too. I know that you, like many other UFO researchers, have some type of Bob Lazar Shrine at their house. And so like myself included, this is part of it. But yeah, to be able to meet the man himself and for him to live up to expectations, they say, "Don't meet your heroes." But when you meet Bob, you realize quickly that and many people say this, he's just this guy. He's just a guy who, you know, what he did doesn't define who he is, but what he did was extraordinary. And he understands that that's extraordinary to people, but he doesn't like to think of himself as an extraordinary person because of it. And you realize that with talking to him. He's a really humble guy. - He was so kind what I met. And, you know, I've said on my channel so many times that I try not to talk about Bob as much as possible because it's so hard for me to be agnostic or not like a non-bias towards Bob. But you know, with his story, some of the things I've come to learn as truths about Bob's testimony is the biggest thing the existence of S4. I vehemently believe that S4 is a real place. Primarily because I've spoken to several individuals who have claimed to have visited or in an official military capacity, essentially gone right by S4, observed either the doors in the mountains or observed the hangar. So. - You'd mention this off camera to me. - Yeah. - I'm glad you're bringing it up 'cause I had forgotten about it. But, you know, the hanger door thing is probably for me the smoking gun, right, to, you know, Bob proving his story for everyone else. You know, I'm convinced, I've also, you know, I've been privy to some, you know, behind the scenes cuts of S4, the Bob was our story, but aside from all that, you know, I've pretty much hold Bob in extremely, extremely high esteem in terms of like telling the truth. And no one was saying hanger doors on the side of a building in that part of the world, right? No one was saying that before him. That is a cut and dry thing with Bob specifically. Now, you can say hand scanner. Oh, that appeared in close encounters of the third kind. You can say, oh, crashed UFOs. Well, that's, you know, whatever. Or recovered craft even you can argue. But that is one thing. Aside from perhaps element 115, like if that ever pops up in a commercial use somewhere. - Yeah. - It's the one thing where you can go, that's Bob. And you had a story that you told me about somebody who drove by. - Right. So, you know, if people are watching and they've seen my recent Air Force video, which is intended to kind of take a modern day look at the UFO legacy programs. Not as much crash or travel, but more so reverse engineering and derivation practices within the Air Force through official channels. There's an individual there that I've spoken to many times. And, you know, I spent about 18 to 20 months both vetting this guy and trying to get in contact with him. This is a pretty senior air force intelligence official who to claim to work in what is called the Hidden Wing. That is a UFO test and evaluation program based out of the Western ranges of the continental United States by Western ranges. - Okay, so in the short form, this Western ranges comprise MRTFBs including the UTTR, NTTR and Edwards-412 test wing. - Okay, so break that down for me, please. - Major range and test facility bases are, it's like the skeleton of the defense industrial base. Essentially, these are large scale training ranges for the US military to conduct any sorts of exercises. And when you think of MRTFBs there's, I think 23 or 24 of these spaces across the US, the Western ranges alone comprise millions of acres of land. Examples of MRTFBs here include Pax River, the Naval Air Station Pax River, that's gained some infamous, infamy recently as Tarzan recovered vehicles. Dugway Proving Ground. - Dugway have been another one. - But Dugway contains two MRTFBs including the West Desert test center, which is the Army sort of CBR&E or chemical, biological, nuclear and high yield explosive range. And the southern part of the Utah test and training range. That's an Air Force range to test various fighter squadrons, various vehicles, test evaluation of new interesting aircraft. Similar to that, Nevada is the Nevada test and training range. That also houses the Nevada test site, you know, where so many famous nuclear tests occur, that's now called the Nevada National Security Site or Nevada National Security Site's plural if you're factoring other places across the nation. And then the Edwards 412 test wing, which is the most important piece to this puzzle. The Edwards 412 test wing houses the Edwards TPS, the test pilot school, which is where Air Force pilots, you know, train to test the most innovative and insane vehicles that the U.S. has. And the 412 test wing operates under AFTC Air Force test center. So this individual essentially, I call him Ed, states at this program opposite to him. No, okay, I just call him, I call him Ed 'cause it's for the Edwards, right? Yeah, I see, I don't, I'm not gonna have that bad of operational security. He's like, I call him Ed, he's like, is his name Edward, he's like, how'd you guess? Right, so in one of his positions in this program, it's what he claims and I have to say, I very much believe this man's testimony after extensive vetting is, he's pretty high up. This guy. Correct. A senior intelligence official, or I'm sorry, not intelligence, a senior officer within the Air Force. Military official. Correct, okay. And his position was test evaluation, test director, for derivative technologies, meaning airframes that utilize one or more components of non-human intelligence craft that could be propulsion, that could be an electro-optic cloaking system, ARV, as we like to call it, full-scale alien reproduction vehicles. And on two instances, craft that were of non-human make. He oversaw that or he just saw that. He was a test director. So he was basically coordinating how to fly these things. Not necessarily how to fly, but different test evaluation. I see, so it could have been scientific testing. It could have been like, you know, propulsion, could have been any, you know, just materials testing, that type of thing. Right, it was rare. These craft were actually flown over the ranges. A lot of the time in Ed's capacity, these craft would be kept in an electromagnetically sealed hanger. And Ed would stand behind a partition along with 20 to 30 principal engineers. These principal engineers might be from nearby plant 42, which is just Southwest of Edwards and Palmdale, so Northrop Grumman, Boeing and Lockheed Martin. And there would be various testing done in the craft. What's interesting, though, is the two time there were craft of non-human origin within the hanger, Ed was not allowed to look inside. So he stood, how did he know? They were the composition of them. Non-human origin. Did he lay eyes on them? Yes, okay, but just the testing he couldn't see. Right, I see. No, no, no, no, I'm sorry. He saw the testing. He was not allowed to look at the interior of the craft. Oh, interesting, what? Yes. So he would be in the room with the vehicles, but he would not be allowed to approach close and be able to inspect the hatch way or the entry point into the vehicles. And hold on, so he's the test director. Correct. And they're not allowing him access to inside the craft. Who has access to inside the craft, if not the director, who's bringing these things in? They often would be driven in from Air Force Plant 42 down in California via low boy truck. And then he would just be briefed, hey, this is what we're going to do and that's it. And then they haul it back to wherever it was from. Yeah. His introduction into the program was very strange and this ties back to S4. As a young officer, he wasn't sat down and given a stack of papers and said, here's your briefing into UFOs. You know, as a young Air Force officer, he specialized in electrical engineering concepts. So he would be out on the Nevada Test and Training Range and see weird things fly over him. And it was expected he'd never talk about it. Eventually, there was a major that kind of gave him a more formal briefing, but that included showing him videos of what he calls inspection craft. These were videos from the probably about the 1960s or '70s that essentially showed recovered technical vehicles of non-human origin, that he wager they were non-human vehicles. And because of the shape of them or because the shape, the metallurgy, yeah, they're saucers. Yeah. Okay. And that same major, again, he was operating out the Nevada Test and Training Range. They were driving by Papus Lake. And when driving by, he saw some open hanger doors, some open doors in the side of a mountain. And the major said, I bet you know what we do in there. No way. He continued on. He never worked at S4 in a formal capacity when he transitioned to Edwards, but he had direct exposure to the site of S4. And he saw a hanger door open in the side of the mountain. Would he have described it the same way? Like, did you, when speaking to this person, did you ever question him on what Bob saw? No, I didn't. And what's interesting is he was kind of jaded to this. It wasn't that surprising to him anymore. Right. He's seen some shit. Yeah. This was, this was, he spent years within this program according to him. So it was just a hanger door. Another day in the office. Yeah. He would wake up, go to work. The most insane vehicles that had capabilities that would defy much logic would be brought in. Various tests would be done. He'd go home. And then of course, after that, he moved to the, the Pentagon in various positions connected to Air Force acquisitions. And in this position, he directly observed a enormous amounts of money being siphoned off to go to black projects before any sort of opportunity for review from Air Force financial management systems. Whoa. It is, in my opinion, one of the most important witness testimonies we could have. It's, it's critical to the subject. Not because he has like documents and briefings, but because he can specifically say, hey, when I worked here, this money was slashed. This is where the budget went before it was slashed. This is where it went after exactly. Follow the paper. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Then you get, then you get subpoenas. You get people kicking down doors if they follow the money. You said like, if this guy comes out, is there, is this somebody you expect to come forward eventually? I don't know. I would hope so, but I would hope it would be in, I would hope it'd be in a manner where he could have as much impact as possible. I think his testimony is so important for people to hear because it's very-- Do you Congress? I would hope so, yes. I would like to see him sworn in before Congress. Has he testified to anybody in a skiff? Uh-huh. Okay. He has. So they're aware of him. Yes. That blows my mind. So I hear these stories over and over again about Congress like bringing people in from various departments and having these, life, world altering conversations inside the skiff. And then no slight to the witnesses that were brought up because I think they're great witnesses and I think they're very brave doing so. But we have firsthand accounts of people not witnessing anomalous activity on base. First-hand account of people actively working with the technology. Yes. And that has yet to be presented in front of Congress. And yet we hear stories over and over again. Why is that? You know, I don't know at least in the public hearings we have had, I haven't been outside of two witnesses that have spoken, and of course George Natt, but he's in the lane of his own. Outside of Dave Grush and Dylan Borland, I haven't been overly impressed with the witnesses just in terms of exposure to the actual legacy programs through faux crash retrieval. I think most people would agree with that too. Like it's anecdotal, which is still important, but nothing we haven't heard on a podcast, let's say, right? What you were talking about is vastly different. This could potentially, you know, really kick down doors if this was brought in front of the right people. And it seems like one of the Congress people who is actually acting on some of this stuff is burlison. You know, he's talked about wanting to visit various sites. Now I think he should probably stop talking about where he wants to visit, because stuff could be moved or stuff could be literally buried. - Yeah, that's good advice. - Right. And so forth. But, you know, he wants to go to these sites. I think you need operational surprise. Just as with the subpoenas or interrogatories to send to people, you need operational surprise. You need to catch them on the back foot. The, you know, for 80 years, at least at this point, the legacy programs have been always one step ahead, being able to outsmart and basically work alongside traditional US government elements without having much exposure. do you think these establishments have protocols for when people show up like that? You know what's interesting? Yeah. I think there are teams that threaten prospective whistleblowers with reprisals. But not only whistleblowers, but let's say congressman shows up with like his whole gang of whatever and they roll up in these black SUVs and they have their own security and they got presidential orders or whatever it is. Open up the hanger. I want to see what's inside. Do you think the people there are prepared for that? Because in my experience as a magician, as much as that doesn't matter to this whole topic, we call that having an out. And so we go in performing as if nothing's going to go wrong. But if something does go wrong, I have a thousand ways of course correcting so that it felt like nothing went wrong. And I can see these tactics being sort of translated into this as well that if I showed up it, you know, Edwards Air Force Base or any of these other facilities that they would route you to, you know, a specific area while they're moving stuff around. Like do you really think that that's how we're going to get to these things? Absolutely not. Then what's how do we how do we make them force them to show their hand? Like what's the answer there? I think part of the solution is a long game. And that's not to just try and brute force a disclosure right now even though I think that needs to be done. I think that the American people and humans at large deserve to know that the reality of non-human intelligence and legacy programs. But for the legacy programs specifically, subtly shift oversight back into traditional oversight channels. And that's to basically retain the the reigns of legacy programs. I mean, you know, we heard it earlier from Jesse when we were chatting with Jesse and you hear it very often that the the structure of legacy programs today are is not some monolithic tight order. It's it's like Jesse set a blind man trying to touch an elephant. It is a scattered fiefdom of different programs siloed from one another that all kind of do their own thing. Some of them coordinate, some of them work across compartments, but it's effectively the legacy structure that arose in the days of the Atomic Energy Commission has been scattered into the wind. So you got to somehow pick up the pieces, bring programs and bring enough programs and program executive officers and senior executive service under your wing to be able to shift the tie to transition legacy programs back under full oversight of the executive branch, the National Security Council. And it's a herculean task. I mean, I was going to say because not only is it a herculean task to do this with one department, you're you're talking about departments who don't even speak to each other. Right. Like they have their own oversight, their own way of doing things, their own way of dealing with whatever information they're trying to keep secret. And so going into these different differently structured departments are is probably, you know, we'll take years to disseminate just even one of them. Right. And but it can be done just with enough legwork. The US government isn't that smart. It's not drumming up new program executive officers and SES and cover programs. It's using existing infrastructure. And that's kind of what I try to convey in the Air Force program. It's not some nebulous or amorphous control group in the Air Force that runs these programs. Know it is indeed the SAFQ SAF acquisition, the Rapid Capabilities Office RCO, in conjunction with SAFAA, the administrative assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force, and AFTE Air Force testing evaluations, specifically AFTEZ, special programs under TNE. So this infrastructure can be traced and you can identify people within the the programs. Right. It's just not a traditional oversight structure. Then that's Air Force and you got Navy. Right. Exactly. I mean, space wars. You got all these different. And then you got compartments. Army. Yeah. And then you got high profile figures trying to gaslight the American public into believing only certain elements are involved in the legacy programs, which I think is absolutely abhorrent. Because the Navy, for example, take a good hard look at the Office of Naval Intelligence, Office of Naval Research, some of their historically special projects and so forth. And Army go ahead and look at Army Test and Evaluation Command out there at Dugway. Go look at early 2000s efforts to modernize the US Warfighter Enter the Army. It's, you know, it's not just like some figures would paint the CIA prime contractors DOE. No, there's a lot more cogs to this machine. I think people realize watching your videos makes that very apparent to me. It puts in perspective sort of what I initially thought, you know, in an extremely sort of naive way, the program looked like. Yeah. And then to be shown on one of your videos that's three and a half hours long, about one pro, like one specific part of the program. And I go, oh, yeah, it's none of it's that simple. And, you know, it does, it's almost maybe by design, discouragingly complicated. Right. And it's tough to follow because it skips traditional chains of oversight, right? So you only read in need to know personnel within within the Department of the Air Force structure, for example. And, you know, that Air Force project, I have to say, is the most confident I've ever put, I've ever been in any singular thing I've ever put out. Now, I remember I did, I was listening to it. And I was like, he's really saying these things like they are the things that he said. Yeah. You're not like I think or, you know, perhaps with the utmost conviction, there needs to be subpoenas or way to get subpoena interrogatories to people including Lieutenant General Donna Shipton, Randall G. Walden, William E. McClure, Russell E. Wiler, Terry Phillips, biggest one there, Lee M. Russ, John T. Manclarke, Edward C. Aldrich, you know, I could go on and on, but those individuals there, I got to think that somebody listening to this podcast knows one of these people, like is a nephew or niece or like a cousin and be like, he just named my uncle. You know, there's, it's got to happen. It's happened before with other, you know, people adjacent to the program that heard something and they're like, oh, my uncle worked for EG and G or whatnot. Yeah. It happens a lot. You know, these videos, they reach certain people. Do you have any, do you have any proof that people of that ilk watch your videos? And maybe not family. No, not family, but I mean, people who, you know, who are part of the program, do you have any proof of that that like you've gotten a wink? Yeah. Other than other than just the witnesses you're currently talking to, but do you ever get like a little email, it's like, hey, you were on the money here, but all, yeah, all the time are like, yeah, I'll get a text saying, oh, you know, AFSI or force office of special investigation. It's definitely flagged your last video. What? A winky face, which I wouldn't be surprised, right? We talk about AFOS IPJ office of special projects. You have a date. Who texts you from the OSI? No, not somebody from the OSI, but somebody who, you know, would might know if some people, interesting people are watching one of my videos or something like that. Yeah, OSI or NHI as well. Yeah, and that, well, that's something we've been talking about quite a bit, the keely and type men and black, but also, you know, high profile figures in the subject, not whistleblowers, but more media personalities, you know, saying like, oh, you know, people are telling me not to talk to you and stuff like that. You ever notice how some podcasts feel like pressure chambers? We're talking high stakes. Whistleblowers, physicists, people have seen things they probably weren't supposed to see. The room gets intense. There's enough pressure without me worrying about something as dumb as body other. The last thing I'd want is a guest sitting across from me, mid-revolution, distracted because I didn't handle something basic. That's why. I use Mando. What I genuinely like about Mando is that it's a whole body deodorant, not just underarms. Anywhere odor can happen. Pit, thighs, folds, feet, you're covered. I use a solid stick daily, and it's powered by Mandelic acid to stop odor before it starts. It was actually created by a doctor who saw firsthand how often normal body odor was being misdiagnosed and mistreated. And it's clinically proven to block body odor all day and control odor for up to 72 hours. That's real confidence in high-pressure situations. I've built it into my routine before recording, before live shows, before travel. It removes one more variable. And when you're navigating intense conversations, removing variables matters. So if you want to try America's number one whole body deodorant formula, head to shopmando.com and use code Area52 for 20% off site-wide plus free shipping. Again, go to shopmando.com, use code Area52 for 20% off plus free shipping and support the show. One less distraction, one less unknown. And it's important to say that in terms of legacy programs, I don't have, I don't know everything. I don't have all the answers far from it. It's such a tangled web that I could probably spend my entire life trying to figure out an unravel and still be an arm's length away always. And that's what kind of I see from this. There's like a by design and institutional confusion that perhaps just discourages looking into it any further because if you're not someone who is obsessed with this stuff like you are right you You're pretty much going in blind and getting sia up left and right like there's no way for me And I'm you know pretty well versed in this conversation as far as like a layperson goes But nowhere near having any knowledge that would help me navigate the inner workings of this as well as you do and so I fear that somebody with even less knowledge than myself on this particular subject is Calling the shots on how to get the information out there. Yeah, and that's that's sort of keep bringing it back to I'm like, you know, what's when are we gonna? When are we gonna look to people like you to like help you know move this forward because it doesn't make any sense otherwise if they call out Sir, I mean, I was in that boat - um before Dave Horusch spoke in 2023 the subject of legacy programs or UFO crash of people reverse Engineering was just kind of like an amorphous or nebulous blob to me that I I just thought the big day in the US government We're in charge of such operations most do I have like a very you know come to light moment watching Dave testify in front of Congress where I was able to start slowly picking up pieces and then you know over the last two years There's there's been nearly a dozen first-hand legacy people all of whom I have reached out to and spent many months trying to get in Contact with just to learn and pick up pieces and put things together and and just gain a greater understanding So that's just the mission trying to be able to understand the legacy program structure What they do who's involved and the history of legacy how legacy became such a scattered fiefdom what corporations are involved What if a farty sees are involved all of this just trying to understand a little more every day and communicate that on On a on a more woo Angle do you ever feel like you get downloads? I wouldn't say downloads. I I would say that I have been fortunate to have some weird like awesome Synchronicities in my in my time when I was thinking about doing the Aztec project I kept going back and forth because this was before I had really really really had got a good understanding of the 1948 Aztec New Mexico crash retrieval and you know I was wishy washy on it. I knew some of the debunks. I now I fully convinced that I was a real crash I'm yeah, and I was just debating it. You know, I do I buy William Steinman's $300 book on Aztec and I pulled up Jesse's video with Ross Colthart, right? It's like a three hour long video. I pull it up I just go to a random part in the video because I just want to see what they're talking about and the exact second I went to his Ross saying oh, yeah, Nat Cobitz told me that you know, Aztec was a real crash I just said I think this is a sign for me also with Ed from the hidden wing 18 months I had been trying to talk to him at least 18 months forever Trying to talk to him for so long and I'm inside a grocery store And I'm just thinking gosh like do I call his number again? And then he texted me So it was just it's some some very fortunate synchronicity said at sometimes during this that I just don't know how they happen Huh, and so do you find yourself? Sort of listening to those synchronicities more as they come up now If they come up because they're super rare. Yeah, so if something comes like up like that I'm going to listen and keep pulling on that thread and you know so far it leads it led to extremely fruitful things with Aztec and Ed I'm definitely forgetting a few more because there have been a couple, but all very interesting. Yeah, I can't help but think that that I don't even know what category to put that in and I think most people would feel the same because you know synchronicities look identical to Coincidences it by nature. It's the definition of a coincidence, but you put meaning behind it and It's it it might be hard for someone on the outside to be like oh, it's just a coincidence I don't really get the synchronicity thing But when you have these things happen in and around this particular space the UFO phenomenon somehow there's like more not more merit but more weight to the synchronicities because you're actually somehow at least at the very least affecting your own ontology. Yeah, I mean to me It's extra interesting right because in this subject I solely deal with crash retrievals and programs like I don't really deal with Experiences, abductions, woo stuff. It's all like very hard paper trail stuff and Yeah, the subject of synchronicities would come up even less than my than what I specialize in which has very little of woo if you want to call it So something like that happens. I'll listen, but surprisingly There seems to be a connection between people who are really deep into UFOs and Whatever's beyond that whether that's the consciousness factor or whether that's you know the trippy science or whatever it is But it there does seem to be a line when you get into UFOs where you're like You're gung-ho nuts and bolts and then you get past that and you go oh, there's a whole other thing here Right that that controls these things or that you know that that might even be the deeper secret Especially dealing with the subject of like psychotronic Technologies weapons exactly. I still think I know I talked about this a lot I still think this was conveyed so well when Dave Grush went on Rogan sure Yeah, and this to me has kind of bridged the two subjects Joe and and Dave Grush are talking about you know how put off the Stargate program remote viewing all sorts of interesting things and Dave Grush basically says well, what if some of these psychic style psionic programs were created so that the agency the CIA and other institutions could figure out how to unlock some craft They had sitting in a warehouse to further that the subject of like a Mind machine interface if you want to call it that to use a pretty technical term is not new You know you go back to Phil Corso in his management. Yeah, Don of a new age Well, one of the things the foreign technology division wanted to do according to him was was was power ballistic missiles with brainwaves Right these these headbands that they would have the most advanced transceiver. Yeah, exactly that can be found all throughout Leonard Stringfield's crash Triebles one through seven of witnesses to crash retrievals in their 1940s and 50s mm-hmm Yeah, an interesting stuff. I got a question also. I wanted to talk to you about recently. We just watched a clip of Donald Trump reacting to what Barack Obama actually ran back, but this statement of you know, broxing was he was it being asked It failions are real and he just kind of like as he sipping his coffee went. Oh, aliens are real But they're not at area 51 and in fact, there's no underground at area 51 First of all as a magician. I'm like, yeah, classic shitty misdirect there. Right. We're not talking about area 51 or underground stuff But now I know that's real Because you're trying to you know, there's there's there's an obvious reason to misdirect their away from aliens But ran it back in the comments and on Instagram or something he was probably told by some handlers, you know Hey, you got it. You got it, you know clear this up. It's getting too much traction and Then Trump in Air Force one I presume this is breaking. Yeah, that's just happened. Yeah, it just happened goes Well, he shouldn't have said that and he goes as classified information if he said it as classified classic Trump being like, you know He's breaking the law. We're gonna arrest him But he reacted really strangely not how normal people would have Assume I don't think any of us assumed he would have reacted that way, right, but what a great idea to stoke Disclosure at least like sort of invoke a disclosure by pissing off Trump and telling him Obama did it first. Yeah. Oh, well, there's so much to unpack here starting with Obama's original statement You know, since he left office Obama has made a couple startling statements about, you know, UFOs and An aliens and so forth and I would like to talk about a whole weird effort that connects to the a tip fiasco and D&I clap under Obama and all that but you know, Obama chooses the words area 51 very carefully remember area 51 was not officially declassified until the Obama administration If you want to say there's no underground facilities below area 51 homie specifically that might be true But what about S4? What about tone of protest range? What about the numerous sites nearby? But even that's not true. Remember our good friend Luigi Vendetilli has found 20,000 plus photographs of EG&G EG&G special projects coring out tunnels for testing and various purposes all throughout the Nevada Test site, which of course houses area 51 that in the larger Nevada test and training range and it's that place is riddled with old minds, right? Borax exactly that they just retrofitted into you know, these sorry these underground facilities Which is way cheaper than just boring it out yourself as well as the works mostly done for you So I think with Obama there's a much larger story to be told to a rather nefarious one if you ask me Now I want to I want to preface this the last time I kind of spoke about Elizondo on my video on the NRO and on Jesse's podcast some folks connected with Lou reached out to me and said hey you better be careful talking about him or he'll sue you So I'm just going to say again, we're we're we are mulling over ideas here And we are just hypothesizing and thinking here understood a legend statements. Okay, understood so Under Obama and this is where the clip starts right here. Yeah So Of course Dave Grush recently came on Megan Kelly and said that DNI director of national intelligence James Clapper and his PD D-D-N-I, principal deputy director of national intelligence, Stephanie O'Sullivan, we're not only aware of the crash retrieval issue, but also managed it in the senior capacity, and this is under the Obama administration. The man who would have briefed Obama, that briefed Obama on all sorts of intelligence activities, was a man who was, I think his title was deputy director of national intelligence, a man by the name of Michael Dempsey. This guy ran in the same cohort as Clapper and O'Sullivan, and he now, of course, is a senior vice president for government affairs at where else, but North of Grumman. Anyways, under that same vein of Clapper, O'Sullivan and Dempsey serving senior roles in legacy programs, there seemed to be a coordinated effort to set up a presidential candidate as the disclosure president. In my opinion, the AIT program was an informal working group, not a real program, besides anything written on a couple pieces of paper that was directed, not directed, but the man at the helm was Lou Elizondo, and this was an effort to drum Hillary Clinton up as the disclosure president. And that involved folks like Hillary Clinton, John Podesta, of course, Hillary Clinton's campaign manager and so forth. And when this plan kind of failed and Trump got in office, then that whole crew and AIT had kind of shifted towards targeting Lou Eliza. I mean, sorry, Tom DeLong and to the Stars Academy. I think this was a very nefarious type of operation to bring about a limited disclosure. If you look at Lou Elizondo's early public appearances, especially the videos he released with Chris Mellon, who Chris Mellon was a, I think, an assistant deputy director in the USDI, undersecured for defense for intelligence, a pretty strange position that also was held later on by Ronald Maltry, who would stand up arrow and appoint his good friend, Sean Kirkpatrick, as director. But I digress, there seems to be a very nefarious plan to give partial disclosure, not of crash retrievals, not of reverse engineering, not of knowledge of non-human intelligence, but just the present of an amorphous threat of non-human intelligence. And this is what I believe Mellon and Lou Elizondo try to push with the New York Times article and the videos they brought forth. Someone should ask Leslie Cain if Lou has ever presented a hard piece of paper that said he was director of AITIP on it. I challenge you, you will not, because AITIP was not a real program. If anything, AITIP operated in a weird cover between the OSAT program and the UFO legacy programs to further this weird limited disclosure mission. It's a very strange thing. And you can start to see weird milestones in that. Like, when did Lou Elizondo start talking about UFO crash retrievals? That was after David Grush went public. You will not find him speaking about it beforehand. And so it seems like that whole crew has always been on the back foot trying to play ketchup now because a dishonest and incomplete disclosure plan was at play to drum up Hillary Clinton like this. And the bridge between clapper and the bridge between Lou Elizondo, I wonder who provided Lou Elizondo the top cover for the AITIP mission? And I would not be surprised if it was clapper. Shortly before he left federal service, whilst he was serving as liaison to the NRO. No, no, I'm sorry, he left federal office and served as liaison to the NRO for TTSA. Lucerv the very high position within the DOD under the USDI. This was a position that effectively does liaison coordination between SAPs and a special access programs at a very high level. This is one of the most cleared positions within the entire United States. Second only to the US Secretary of Defense, more cleared than the DOD SAPCO, or Director of the Special Access Program Central Office. So what are you saying? So some SAPCOs in the past include H. Marshall Ward, a former Air Force general, which if you look in like the Wilson Davis notes, which are kind of weird, kind of bizarre, but I still believe the fundamental facts of that are true. The Director of SAPCO gave Thomas Wilson direct places to look within the USDAT and L at that time, under Secretary of Defense for Ancestion Technology and Logistics to look for UFO legacy program records. What I'm saying here is I would not be surprised if Lou has not been completely forthcoming with his involvement in legacy programs before the AITIP cover program. So what capacity was Lou involved in your hypothesis will say in your speculating what capacity was he involved in the legacy program? Let me just say this, I'm speculating. I'm playing a character here. Well, I think there should be a chance, the same chance Jeremy Corbyl gave Lou when he and George and Apple doing a review of the Age of Disclosure. And I'll say that if Lou Elizondo had a position within the legacy program, he should just come out and talk about it. I mean, it's a big pill for people to swallow. Have you heard from Lou at all after talking about this? There was no, there was one point early on. 'Cause if that's true, let's say on an if, there's no chance that he wants that information out there. No. But I also see like a path to sort of redemption available. If he did choose to come out and if this was true. Yeah. But if not, let's say if he wants to categorically deny this, why not do so? You know why not outright deny it then? Well, I think a lot of the time, the wrong accusations are leveraged against Lou. Okay. And a lot of those time, those accusations are leveraged mostly around the Twitter space. And on the Twitter drama. The counter intel stuff. Yeah, yeah. I think the conversation is bigger than that. And that is Lou having prior involvement and a tip being a cover program. He does have a chance to be an American hero to come clean about that stuff. I know he doesn't want to reveal classified information and that's fine, but if he has played a larger role in the structure of these programs and especially served under somebody like Clapper for this effort to, you know, both of them up here in the age of disclosure, three clips totally less than a minute of Clapper. It would be a good time and it would be a good time to do that and be plain and this would help the disclosure movement tremendously. With partial and inaccurate and, you know, unsustainable weird cover programs, there will never be an effective disclosure through those channels. And that in my opinion involves Lou allegedly, Lou Elizondo, Chris Mellon and the OSAP crew. Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, you think that'll ever happen? No. You're seemingly clinging to it. I mean, in the age of disclosure documentary, everyone from Eric Davis to how put off was labeled as an A-tip scientist. Yeah, not off Turkey. Yeah, that was a very weird directorial choice. Not ass out, not ass out, not bass, not having any. And I know that was filmed maybe two years ago, but the age of disclosure now in those figures, specifically put off Elizondo and Eric Davis and Jay Stratton are trying to present a false and incomplete UFO legacy program outlined. And, you know, people have said, like, how do I know better than former intelligence officials? Well, I'll challenge you that most of these officials have not been completely forthcoming with their involvement in programs as well as Eric Davis has, you know, offered me like plenty of lies in the past about certain things. And in that certain structure, they're presenting in the age of disclosure, which involves the CIA's directorate of science and technology as the manager of the crash retrieval portfolio. With the Department of Energy, defense industrial-based prime contractors, you can think of the big five there, Locking Martin, Raytheon Boeing, blah, blah, blah. And the Air Force being the only four elements within legacy programs. Who do you think is at the head of that structure? It's the National Security Council. Why is that left out? But that's not even to say there's no include, inclusion of the Navy. Maybe somebody should ask Jay Stratton why the O and I was not in there. Maybe somebody should ask Jay Stratton to go chat about Stephanie O'Sullivan, you know, who formerly served in O and I who was PDD and I under Clapper and former CIA DST Deputy Director that Dave Grush had the stones to name, but nobody in the age of disclosure or that would ever bring forth a name like that. And why didn't Clapper talk about her when she worked directly under him? These questions must be asked and it's rather sinister. Do you think sinister or once again, just this really, really confusing web of sort of chain of command? Like I mean, for myself, I would plead ignorance to, if I made a documentary and interviewed all those people and didn't ask the questions that you're asking, I would want to do a follow up documentary and get you to help, right? 'Cause that would, and so I can't assume that that's not the case either that perhaps there wasn't an actual, you know, sinister motive behind not asking certain questions, but even just the lack of this knowledge which seems to be, you know, for me, if true, kind of groundbreaking. We are recently Dan Farrah went on a podcast and kind of responded to criticism of the legacy program structure. I can only guess, you know, without being ecotistical that that was a response to my criticism 'cause I've been so vocal about it, you know, on some large platforms. But he was pretty adamant sticking through the four elements of legacy as he was told and said, "Every intelligence official life I've been told," said the same thing. So to me, it says that Dan Farrah hasn't gone further and that's not necessarily a problem. He's just putting in the documentary what he was exposed to it and doesn't know further things than that because his argument was incomplete and I don't think fully formed. So I can't fault Dan Farrah for that. I do fault the characters in the film. - Interesting man. This is, you ever get freaked out by what you uncover? - Yeah, but it's mostly frustration. - Really? - Yes. - You don't feel a sense of like, like, 'cause I feel a sense of like holy shit. Well, I don't know if you feel that or not. Like, that's, these are holy shit moments. I've had a couple, like, internal freakouts when doing certain videos. One was talking about the Naval Surface Warfare Center crane that was all fine in the past. The most recent, the most recent video was talking about Terry Phillips. You know, I'll give a quick brief overview again because I really want to challenge the UFOsite guys to enter this gatekeeper's name in the same conversations they do Klin Gaffney that they do Doug Wolf, that they do Dick Cheney. In fact, Terry Phillips started his career as an Air Force officer. He eventually transitioned to AFOSI, trained in counterintelligence field operations and so forth. Within OSI, he moved on to a compartment of OSI, the Office of Special Investigations. Think of like, you know, the Air Force's secret service. Yeah, essentially, yeah. Exactly. This is called the AFOSI/PJ. PJ stands for Special Projects, the OSI Office of Special Projects. This safeguards all of the Air Force saps. They maintain several present permanent stations around the constantly United States, exactly where you'd think, Palmdale, California, and so forth. Weirdly enough, they have a major facility at the Naval Surface Warfare Center, Dalgrin, which is a Dalgrin is, I think Dalgrin's in Virginia. I'm almost positive, which is kind of weird. Why would OSI be out in Dalgrin? Apparently, it's like a joint space type monitoring. I can't quite remember. Well, Virginia is, I mean, but at Dalgrin, but Terry Phillips becomes executive director of AFOSI/PJ. Not only that, he becomes Air Force SAP, Special Access Program Security Director for the entire Air Force. Well, after that, he moves to Lados. Lados, of course, was spun off from SAIC, Science Applications International Corporation. If you've never heard of SAIC before, Bobby Rayanman served as a very high-raking individual within SAIC. Very spooky stuff goes on there. Exactly. They, of course, took the Stargate from SRI and so forth, and then Terry Phillips is now the vice president for security at Nunnell's, but North of Grumman. So this is a man who I would very highly recommend the administration, not just to serve interrogatories too, but to effectively game out a way to extract testimony from this individual. Also, around AFOSI/PJ, again, office of special projects, there have been several first-handers I have spoken to have received reprisals, whether that be threats to their life, their pension, saying, hey, you better pay this amount in child support or you're going to jail, stuff like that. And this is oftentimes from elements of the FBI. In the, I think, 1970s, late '70s or early '80s, the FBI was elements of the FBI, a small select number of agents were selected by OSI/PJ to work together. And this was under the Guardian Angel program to protect saps like tacit blue. There were a couple B2 spirit bombers that were trying to conduct espionage that the Guardian Angel program caught in through in jail. So I'd be really interested and actually quite confident that OSI/PJ and their cadre of FBI agents have had a direct hand in threatening whistleblowers and actively engaging in reprisals against prospective whistleblowers. - Yeah, the FBI thing is strange too because there's obviously a sorted history there of them covering stuff up. But then also recently, isn't the FBI, like, I guess like sort of one of the departments that's at least at face value sort of pushing forward disclosure, like behind the scenes, supposedly, but there's probably even factionality in there, right? Like you think back to Clapper serving as the head of the crash retrieval portfolio out of the National Security Counselor, tied to the National Security Council. If ATIP was a cover program that leu directed under Clapper, then even somebody like Clapper wanted partial disclosure, but then there were other elements of legacy that wanted to stop that. So, you know, there seems to be fiefdoms in opposing parties and factions everywhere. And I think there are traceable times that you can find when that happened. Of course, we talked about that earlier. I won't rehash the whole thing 'cause it's a really long type of discussion, but if you're interested to learn more with for anybody watching, Edward C. Aldrich, of course, as we talked about him, has this one of the most highly credentialed CVs I've ever seen under Secretary of the Air Force, Secretary of the Air Force, director of the NRO. He was a senior vice president or president of McDonald Douglas. He was a high individual, maybe a board of directors for LTV Aerospace, LTV Aerospace became E-Systems, which was a CIA shell company, then bought by Raytheon, and he was CEO of the Aerospace Corporation. Well, in the early '80s, when he was under Secretary of the Air Force, Aldrich created a group of, he didn't create them, but he rolled a group of Air Force outside activities, which were activities that existed outside of the Air Force that the Air Force had operational and administrative control over and rolled them under the SAFAA, the administrative assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force. He did this when bypassing traditional Air Force SAF structure like AAC, Info/Special Access Program, Oversight/Security, it's a really long acronym, even I get tripped up. But that should be like a huge red flag for anybody interested in legacy programs, actually looking at somebody in this position bypassing traditional oversight channels and traditional SAF security structure and like placing outside activities that aren't even in the Air Force under a cover office, that being the SAFAA. So I think there are instances, and this was done during a period of great SAF reforms in the late '70s and early '80s. So there are times I think you can trace when legacy started to fracture and compartment and get scattered into the wind. - Yeah, I suppose. And again, it just like strengthens the idea that this is just like some boys club. Because these guys just jump from position to position to boards, to boards to, they go from private to military, military to private. They go, you know, they're running their VP here, president here, CEO here. And it does seem like that's all it takes is like get to the top and then you get shuffled around to various compartmentalized sort of aspect to the program. - Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You trade in your, I always say you trade in your military suit, your dress for, you trade in your stars and stripes. - Your pinstripes. Stars and stripes for a pinstripe suit. Just do the same thing with more pain. - It's a revolving door of the who's who at the top. And if you look, if you go back in history and look at the proposed MJ-12 list, I mean, those guys are all the same type. They were head of this, head of that, head of that. You know, a president of this, you know, of Harvard, whatever. And like, and they were just transferring over to these different places, like at the top. Again, like, it's just so hard for me and I'm sure I'm not alone in this to wrap my head around this revolving door because it's a, it's a miracle round. It's more than that, it's a maze of purposely confusing structure. I don't even believe that anybody who's, I can't believe that anybody in that top position even knows half of what you know. - The last one was Dick Cheney and he's dad, the probably closest thing we had to him was Clapper. - Right. - Of somebody who's aware of like the big picture. - Overhead silo programs. That's probably the closest thing we have. - Yeah, who can see the beast. - Yeah. - And again, it seems like the early efforts for the legacy programs was a Manhattan Project 2.0. I'd actually like to get your opinion on the majestic 12, too. Do you think it was a real organization or not? Do you think it's just a UFO lore? - I tend to lean, I'm over 50% conviction that the MJ12 was real. Just based on a lot of the work that's out there already on the documents, the Psalm 1 documents, Ryan Woods does a lot of work on that. - Shout out, Ryan Woods. - Yeah, yeah, Ryan Woods. You know, there's, and obviously, you know, Stanton Freeman put in a lot of work, too. And there's just a ton of corroborating evidence that at least the papers themselves, including, you know, the font, the typewriter, the, you know, these type of like piece of evidence work out that, yeah, this was real, this is all, you know, from the era. Now, the information in that, I mean, I look at, I look at the eyes and how are briefing and I feel like that's real. I feel like the twining memo is real. - The white hot, yeah. - Yeah, there's like a few of them. Now, in all of that, there are probably, you know, there's probably passage material somewhere and there's probably stuff that's just completely concocted and fabricated. But I think the core ones, like the Psalm, I think the Psalm 1 is real. Who wasn't, who was talking about it? - Tim Phillips. - Tim Phillips. - Tim Phillips. - The PD Director of Arrow. - Yeah, that was really interesting that that was brought up and wasn't it like, there wasn't a like an off camera conversation where he was confirming that like, oh yeah, this is exactly what we were looking at. And also described two different documents on versus off camera. - That's right. - Off camera, he would say this document had no, like illustrations, but was still like a complex, like extraterrestrial craft retrieval manual. Off air, he would say, oh, it's chock full of documents, which the Psalm 101 is. You know, there's pictures of boxes on how to box. - Exactly. - And Psalm, and Psalm 1 is the special operations manual on, essentially a guide to crash retrieval. Like that might be also, I'm not opposed to the idea of that being based on the actual document. - Right. - And not being the actual document in some type of like limited disclosure way that it was put out to the public. not unlike some of the 4chan whistle blowing going on. Whenever that's brought up, people tend to wince, but that initial 4chan document, that initial Q&A that happened on 4chan, we were talking about this off camera, and I'm pretty high conviction. I get higher and higher conviction as time goes on that this was a legitimate person or at least one person who was connected to a very, very, very, deep part of the program, and a part of the program that is so, you know, I mean, one of the darkest depths of the program, I'm sure, like, past the levels of, you know, potentially where Bob Lazar was implicated, like, way further in. And possibly the deepest, I guess, confession that we've ever had, if real, yeah. I got to say, I do agree with you that I think the overwhelming majority of the USO mothership to spec printing factory 4chan whistleblower is legit outside of a couple of things I think he was trying to fill in his own gaps of information on, and that includes when he talks about the craft approaching the mothership underwater, getting like eviscerated and obliterated often. I think that might be a stretch. I'm still trying to wrap my head around element 115, of course. So I still have, you know, definitive things to say about that. But you and I were talking off air. There has been an individual that I have formed a close relationship with that served for multiple years within an FFRDC. I'm going to keep it unnamed here just to keep this guy's safety. But he had exposure to various naval programs, legacy programs, and the fundamental truths about the 4chan whistleblower post he did state to me were true. And that is a large ship that hardly ever leaves the Bermuda area of the ocean. That seemingly builds tick-tax and other shaped craft to spec. And this thing seems to be very looser if you get close to it. It approaches farther into the depths and it, it seems to be the zookeeper that doesn't interfere as long as the zoo animals aren't trying to break out of the enclosure. That's kind of how he put it too. Yeah, yeah, it is. Which is interesting. Did this gentleman, I assume it's a man, but did this person mention 115 at all in any capacity? No, no mention of it. No knowledge on it whatsoever. Okay. But he said other than that, because that would have been like a deep, deep, deep part of it. But that might also be the passage material that you throw into a story like that to sort of discredit it to people who are higher up. So what's interesting to me is I've been trying to game out that, you know, there were recent efforts to try to unmask the fortune whistleblower and shout out those individuals on, on Reddit who did that. I think I'm a little bit more skeptical there. I don't know how likely it is a Lockheed Martin. Person would have that sort of institutional history. Of course, the individual named the fortune whistleblower as an amalgamation of two now deceased senior Lockheed engineers who had liver cancer. I personally think that this sort of knowledge would be somebody from a federally funded research and development center and somebody who worked in the program's prior to 2011. At least I've been exposed to several select programs in 2011. A lot of the programs work in an onion concept. There's always another layer above and below to bolster the onion in 2011. There was a ceasing of briefings to program income in some program history. And that's just to keep knowledge out of, you know, risky hands with new ideological people coming in the program. Yeah. He even mentioned that though in the document. He mentioned that I think early 2000s, there was a shift at the top that they clamp down hard after that. And it was probably after I think prior to 9/11 or right after 9/11, there was a shift in power at the top and this could be, you know, when they were looking into perhaps the trillions of dollars, the Pentagon, you know, was failing on their audits. And you know, that might have been like, oh, they're going to start coming our way. You got to clamp down. And so it was mentioned during that time, the early 2000s that there was that so that might have happened again. You know, that's intriguing. The early 2000s, you talked about 9/11 because remember when Dave Grush recently went on Megan Kelly, he said that the early 2000s, the onset of the war on terror, so select contractors using IRAD, independent research and development funds, which is essentially a contractor can do whatever the hell they want as long as they deem it a national security interest item and then build the DOD for it. So Dave Grush said that the War of Terror Salvari's contractors harness IRAD to try and create their own breakaway programs, essentially, like do their own crash retrieval reverse engineering. Indeed, I think this is true in specifically in reference to North of Crumman, but that's another story for another day. That's like the UFO version of the Patriot Act after 9/11. Yeah. Yeah. And if some contractors try to pull away and do their own thing, that would make sense there would be a shift in institutional knowledge, right? Like, let's say that the National Security Council might want to bring in some new people under Miter. It makes sense not to brief the Miter incumbents if you have fear that North of Crumman's going to offer them a more competitive salary to poach them or something like that to take them into their breakaway programs. Yeah. Yeah. And he was very adamant about that, how things really clamp down. There was like throughout the document, throughout the Q&A, there was like a clear before and after energy that he had witnessed. I understand that true, to be true as well, I understand that the days of the Manhattan Project 2.0 are long gone and that today in the modern day, there's significant brain drain in the legacy programs. And this is due to the compartmentalization, the silo nature, top talent being elsewhere, maybe in these breakaway programs, the tiredness of the FFRDC. So I understand that true that there's significant brain drain and the impetus for this occurred in the early 2000s. That's when like the greatness of the pyramid kind of lost its pizzazz. I will tell you there was one point, this is, I don't think I've talked about this sort of publicly, but I, you know, after spending a little bit of time with Bob Lazar, I was curious because I'm a little obsessed with this initial forechand document. I'm one of the purveyors of it online and you have the most knowledge of it of anybody I've ever met. Well, because I think I think it's worth looking at, I, you know, read through it meticulously and had help sort of cause forechand to cesspool the comments and you got to really piece it all together, but thankfully people in my discord helped me do that and we were able to make a coherent sort of Q and A out of it. But when I had a little bit of time alone with Bob and I was able to sort of pick his brain and, you know, I started talking about MJ 12 and sort of, and, you know, sort of trying to, I guess, gauge his reaction to all of this stuff and see where his knowledge lies in terms of legacy program, did he do any deep dives, you know, since '89 was he intrigued at all? I would be, you know, his answer for the most part was he didn't really look at any of this stuff because of John, John Lear. And you always, you know, John had all these crazy ideas constantly and, and Bob couldn't separate wheat from the chaff and it was, you know, a guy to a point where John thought people lived in the sun. And so, you know, if you come to, you know, I'd mention Aztec to Bob, the crash and at first he's like, I don't know, John talked about that, but you tell us he's a bit reticent and sort of reluctant to like, want to engage in that. And I was like, well, I think Aztec happened, you know, and I started going in in details and showing him Simon's work and, you know, Scully's work and all of this. And he was starting to come around and be like, oh, wow. And like, he was making connections himself with the, you know, especially the, the craft or whatever. And eventually the conversation got into, you ever heard of this platform called 4chan? There's this whistleblower that mentions your name and he goes, really? And I go, yeah. And then I caught myself saying this and I'm like, God, I should've said that. It was, I go, he goes, what do you say? And I go, oh, he basically said, well, he talked about one 15 that they would extract the one 15, the people, there was like four teams, he was on team two. Team one would extract the bodies in one 15, team two would like rip out whatever the loose parts were and team three and four dealt with the bulk of the craft. And so he said that there was one 15 and somebody asked about Louis Luzando and Greer in the questions and he goes, I don't know any of these people, but one person you didn't name was Bob O'Sar. And in fact, if you mentioned his name, they would take you out back and put you down like a dog. I told this to Bob and immediately upon telling him, I regretted telling him because what a terrible thing to tell someone, right? But I was just, I was just so excited to talk to him and like to tell him this thing. And you know, in my head, even though I'm high conviction, there's a part of me that's like, oh, this is lower. Right. It's fun. Yeah. And so I say this and I see him completely like debalanced, like put his hand on the desk and go, oh, shit, like he had this realization like, oh, and you get the energy completely shifted. As all I can say, in that moment for me was one of the strongest pieces of holy shit. This is real. This is real for him. This is very real. And again, I'm incredibly high conviction on Bob. In fact, I would, you know, I would go to bat for Bob any day that he did work on this program. And in that, what he's saying is true. But it wasn't until that moment where I saw this human being and it was just him and I, no one else around, no one, you know, no one to perform for, no lies. And it was so off putting that it. He lost footing for a second and I felt so bad for saying that and I apologized and I was like, "I'm sorry, I brought that up." He goes, "No, no." And he was kind of reliving this. And so, you know, I don't know where that stands in all of this story, but it was hearing Bob's name in that document and then being able to talk to Bob, I mean, the first one to sort of tell Bob about this and seeing his reaction. Like, it sort of corroborates this in a very fundamental emotional level for me and maybe not so, you know, technical and provable, but definitely as far as just human interaction goes, I went, "Oh my God." Yeah. Well, I think that's really interesting with the 410 Whistleblower says then about don't say the name Bob the Tsar and yeah, and one that's really encouraging to see that human side of Bob to see that kind of trauma he faces to think that people might be getting hurt because of him. That's kind of inspiring to see the human side of Bob. That's something I got to see when I met him, right? Like, of course, the stage is jeering everybody's clapping, but when I met Bob, he was so gracious and so kind. I, again, a boyhood dream come true, but one of the things we talked about the Austin show that, you know, I haven't talked about before, so it might be kind of fun to talk about, but I've said I spent a long time about a year hunting down a guy who claimed to operate in a UFO crash retrieval program and this was based out of the Nevada test and training range in the early 2000s. This individual would dress up in a mock gear, mission oriented protective posture and essentially his job was to get debris, help get craft either loaded up onto CHM 847s or get debris into Konex containers to be shipped out. You know, he would follow several scientific teams and several arm teams that, you know, Alfa Bravo, Charlie and Delta. And this guy has claimed to have been on, you know, eight retrievals up to eight really interesting ones, eight shaped craft was the most common. But he was sheep dipped out of the army, according to him sheep dipped, meaning taken elsewhere into a weird black program and this the training for this program was out of the Nevada test and training range and the books they had, the briefing books were from the NRO and a road joint task force. So this this crash retrieval team seemed to operate quasi army quasi NRO, but during their briefings, there were there was extensive, you know, discussion of program secrecy, you know, you don't even they use fake names, right? They use to Irish names to so they don't use the real identity and you don't talk to brothers about, you know, your history, your real name, all that. And one of the security briefings was an example of a man who had violated a program protection structure before and cost a cataclysmic shift in the security of the programs. And though he wasn't mentioned by name, the outline security breach was the story of Bob Lazar. Whoa, and I've always found that so interesting because I have to remain agnostic to Bob in my research and my videos just because I've been infatuated with his story since a child. I just have to remember that and because there is like a sort of his story is so real, so so jarring if real, that it has to be the one that they try and debunk. Well, because if they let that one go, yeah, the whole stack of jenga blocks falls over. Another interesting thing about this specific individual when the C847's MH47's would deliver craft parts once they were within the Nevada test site, they would be delivered to Papus Lake in two different areas. So probably the S4 crowd specifically coming to collect those vehicles, right? Yeah. Crazy going back to the 4chan guy this person. I don't believe also I don't believe that there was like a liver cancer situation, right? That was like the easiest thing to debunk out of the whole document. Even a lot of the comments were like so easy to trace. Yeah, it's not everybody has liver cancer. I think that's just a throw off the trail. Definitely. We talked about this, but on red airing. Yes, on red it, there was the guy who produced some big low advance, stereospate, big low advanced aerospace, base systems, documents, bass documents, and tic tac claim that tic tac was hours and that there were 2000 saps dealing with UFO legacy programs, which you know, that might be accurate. You don't need that many people to create a sap and so forth. But this guy also stated he was sick with cancer and that was a lie. Like I know that person. I know who that is. And that was just a red herring to completely to try and make interested parties reading that document, think that I was old and possibly sick with cancer of old age. A reason to come public. Right. Because they wouldn't just buy the reason of fuck it. Here you go. Yeah, that makes sense. And you know, there's been a lot of subsequent reddit slash 4chan quote unquote leaks or whistleblowers. And a lot of them have been really interesting. A lot of them deal with lore. They go with this map. But there was one. I think the only other one, there's two other ones that I hold in higher conviction than the others. One had to deal with the molecular biologist that sort of goes through the anatomy of the grays that, you know, seemingly were pulled from a craft that were like mangled. That one I hold in really high regard because there's a there's so many interesting connections. Have you read that one? Yeah, yeah, I don't have the scientific expertise to be able to get to pass through the information. Yeah, no, I had to I had to use, you know, community and AI to get through that. But, you know, for the most part, there are some really, really interesting things that you can look at past all of the organs and, you know, the secretion of the excrement through the skin creating this like ammonia sense and like all all of these things that line up with, you know, modern alien lore. There is something in whether you talk about the brain and he goes, the studying of the microtubules was paramount for him. Interesting. Yeah, that was his ease like he was given like he had two tasks and like the number one task. One was like, you know, I forget one was the one that was more important was sort of gene sequencing or looking at the DNA to figure out what the formula was to create these microtubules that exist. In the alien brain, they had brains that were 20% larger and they had, you know, a larger lung sack so it could produce more oxygen because they had a bigger brain needed more oxygen like all these really interesting, you know, physical attributes, but the one that really stuck out with me was the microtubules and I'm sure. You know, I'd be interested to hear what like how put off would have to say, but that you should get him on here and also ask him about his exposure with legacy programs. What's your opinion on how life long spoke, probably did some work with north of Grumman in the past and definitely has not been totally transparent about his involvement. But you're talking about these tell us how you really feel. Well, you're talking about these Reddit and 4chan like whistleblower ones. Have you read. I think it was May 2024 the X OGA contractor whistleblower testimony. If you want to call that, is that the one that corroborates the the initial 4chan one with the where they see the undergrad, the underwater, the giant underwater. USO no, it's much more sober than that. It's it's super simple and it's become one of my favorite one of these anonymous testimonies. What's it? Can you go? Can you say it again? I'm sure it was taken off of Reddit like any good. Yeah thing, but it's called X OGA contractor. I might have. Okay, go ahead. So OGA here in this sense is not the CIA's office of global access started by CIA deputy to DS and he deputy director Doug Wolf back in 2003. OGA here means other government agency a lot of the time when people retire from special forces are so forth, they'll work under an OGA mean the contract under an agency that they kind of need to keep vague. So this individual here was part of the air forces soft unit special forces unit the 24th STS special tactic squadron, which is a tier one unit under JSOC joint special operations command. This individual claimed, you know, when he was done with service and the 24th STS he moved on to become a contractor for an OGA. It's probably agency still because he was overseas and when it's overseas. It's probably the CIA. Yeah. And so he's just doing general contracting and so forth and you know, he he recalls. So he's doing general contracting and there comes in a flight of C 130's AC one C 130 planes and there was no manifest that these plans are coming in. There's nothing saying that these are landing, but he sees his old troop chief get off the C 130's and he sees his troop chief old troop chief when he was in the 24th STS immediately bored. I think it's a CH 47 helicopter and fly off. He's like my old troop chief. That's interesting and previously there had been some weird stuff with his troop chief like, you know, when they were in the 24th STS the troop chief just randomly disappeared for like a week or so and came back. They thought there was a death in his family or something, but he came back. The XOGA contractor was also kind of non plus the troop chief was there in whatever country this was because he knew the troop chief was playing fantasy football in Virginia, just a couple days prior because they were in the same league. So I think it's at dawn the next day, the plane lands again. And sorry, the CH 47's and he sees, you know, as troop chief another Probably contractors get back onto the C or C 130's. The troop chief looks super like days. He looks exhausted. He looks confused and the XOGA contractor tries to run up and talk to him and is immediately chastise and gotten trouble. He just heard from the troop chief, we retrieve something. And that was it. And so this XOGA contractor is chastise and so forth, but cut to when he's done contracting for probably the CIA, he finally meets up with the troop chief. And the troop chief essentially said that he was part of a parallel unit to JSOC joint special operations command that served for retrievals of craft of unknown origin. In his many years within JSOC in this parallel unit that have its own siloed umbrella authority, he had only been on four, either three or four retrievals. That recent one, why he was so messed up is his crew was sent out to the retrieval of an egg-shaped craft, only a little bit larger than an SUV. This craft seemed to just be metallic in a singular color. And it seemed to impact the earth at a very fast beat, but there wasn't damage. There wasn't fire. This thing seemed to be like a bowling ball dropped from the sky. Right. We're just completely ballistic impact damage. This is like it was like someone laid an egg. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. This troop chief said the air around the craft felt soupy. And also he felt like there was a weird smell, which kind of combines with Dylan Borland said about the triangle over Langley and Jonathan Wagant with the weird mother of Pearl effect and just feeling strange around the craft. He observed this egg was cracked. And of course, the interior, something we've talked about looked like nesting dolls, layers upon layers of hold. And that was the story. Wow. The troop chief was never told what it was, just that it was not made by us. And that he'd been on similar retrievals before. The reason I put so much creams in this story is just the language used. It's ultra-specific, ultra, you know, Air Force guy language. And that's the type of retrieval encounter I've come to understand is true. And that's the exact protocol for retrievals. And that's what you've sort of encountered as well with a lot of the people that you've spoken to is like these egg shaped. That eggs are very common. I mean, you know, a good bit about them. Jake Barber was I think the person who a lot of people, you know, refer to when speaking about the egg craft. How high is your conviction on that egg video being real? The one that we never got shown ultra high. No, the one that we did get shown. Oh, I don't know about that. I don't care about I don't care about that egg video. There was supposed to be a different one. Why it was not shown. I don't know. But this video was supposed to be body camera footage. Who says who? Says individuals that I'm quite close with that, you know, I'm not going to betray their confidence here. Right. But where did you hear this? You heard it from them? Has anyone else talked about this? A couple people. And I'm sure people watching now will have heard in rumor circles of a different video that was supposed to go around as far as I've heard as well. That's very true. Yeah. This one apparently they just spoke about recently that it was dropped off in the snow and there's some weird sort of like, yeah, bizarre handling of this the USB key. Right. Right. But that video from what I understand pales in comparison to the video that was supposed to be shown. What's the difference? Well, the video that was shown on news nation is an egg whose size you can't really gauge from the camera shot dangling under a single hook on a basically a single rope under a small chopper. But this other video was supposed to be axion body camera footage or helmet cam from a GoPro of a retrieval team actually standing with an arm's distance of a retrieved egg's craft. And the egg looked the same. I've looked white and seemed to exhibit a mother of pearl effect. A mother to Jonathan Wacant described like oil on water. Any other details? We're tiling on it. We're tiling. That's bizarre. I know. The we're tiling is strange because this is also what you hear about those giant black sort of pyramid shaped crafts as well. There's black tiling and then glyphic writing on some craft as well. Yeah. That's just so strange. I mean, Lou who's sitting there last year, he was telling me that, you know, for the first time, I was like, oh, you have, you've seen writing on eggs before specifically. And he goes, yes. And I was like, hold on. Like etched or and he's like, no, etched into the egg. There's like writing on craft. Like he confirmed that that he saw those images. That's kind of what I've heard too. Really? Yeah. One of my favorite crash retrieval cases is really little known. But I talk about it a lot. It's a maritime crash retrieval that occurred off the coast of Aberdeen, Scotland in 1992. And it was a DSRV deep submergence rescue vehicle team that pulled up this triangle from like 10,000 feet underwater. And that this triangle had no cockpit, no landing gear seemed to be made of one shape rounded edges, but had glyphic writing all around the side of it. Yeah. And you see that with Kecksburg as well. Yeah. Yeah. Kecks crafts have that even even the one that Jeremy weeks saw, which was a disc. It also had this like glyphic sort of writing, you look at Rendlesham same thing. Let me ask you this Chris. Who's that for? I don't know. I don't know. You know what I mean? Cause like if hypothetically, if I am traveling to a different planet and I'm doing reconnaissance or I'm doing anything whatsoever, I'm making sure that my craft has no language on it. Right. I'm making sure that I don't have a Northrop or a Lockheed sticker on my craft if I'm going to Mars and exploring another civilization that's living there. The last thing I want to do is for them to like, oh, oh, you know, look at that logo. We've seen that before. You're stripping it of all of the things before you're sending it to a planet. Yeah. So what that tells me, like what that might say about these craft is that a, this is this craft isn't meant to be here. Or be there's something here that can identify it. Yeah. It almost that practice of like etching in symbology into a vehicle or something of great importance almost seems archaic to us. Like that's like putting large gunkworks decals and stickers on the YouTube spy plane that was shot over over Russia. It depends what it depends what it says. Right. Right. Because if it's not just a decal, it could say something like, oh, rescue craft. Don't worry. We're here. Like whatever that is. But what I'm saying is that like, that, that has to be for something. Right. So there's something out there that can read that language. Who knows? Maybe it just says no step in their language. Like we put on a lot of air. Sure. But again, but again, you're writing it on a craft and you're, you know, hovering on this planet with beings who can't read it. So why is that? So it's either, you're not supposed to be there. This craft wasn't meant to be here. He's meant to be somewhere else where people can read that or there are people here. I assume people are non people, whatever that can read that. Right. That has to be the only two options. Like that could suggest there's a more permanent NHI station. That is what else does it suggest? It suggests that it's either not supposed to be here. It's here by mistake or something can read that. That's on the ground. That's like or elsewhere in the sky that needs to read it. Well, whether it's the 4chan whistleblower or so many other, so many other testimonies. There's plenty to reference of different NHI species with a permanent or semi permanent presence on this planet, which is both awe-inspiring and terrifying to know we're not the masters of our own planet. Do you think, do you think OSI is alien? I see in nature. Do you think, okay, do you think there is a faction of our government that is hiding the UFO secret that is working alongside NHI? And I mean in a very stable and present capacity. So that's something we've been talking about. And I have to give a firm right now. I don't know. One because like OSI PJ, I am as near confident as one could possibly be in this situation, does program protection for legacy stuff. The non-human intelligence type OSI, men in black type thing, it like it hears to John Keel's idea of men in black sort of weird NHI entities. So many interactions, though. There's I know there's so many stories of that. So many. Is that an element that works? Is that a real element? I don't know. Is an element that works in conjunction with OSI and program protection? I don't know. Is it a rogue thing of NHI that tries? Right. Better time to sweep up. Yeah. It seems to me though that like the way that this has been covered up is much too perfect. Like my brain defaults to there's no way you can keep a lid on this if it's happening this often. We hear so many cases. There's no somethings bound to give. One of these things is bound to go down a little too close to town. Like there's just too many variables here to contain that there either has to be a some type of time variable. And I'm not saying time travel, but I'm saying even if you had this magical mirror, let's say this magical piece of glass that could give you, you know, where to go next. That's all you would need, right? Or just like show you probabilities of things that might happen if you don't go here, then they just go there. Or you're working alongside something that is far more advanced and that is helping you keep it covered up. Because there's no way humans, I don't think, can have successfully covered it up without the help of something really extraordinary. Well, I mean, even Dave Grush has said that agreements have been made with NHI. What are those agreements? Does it technology in exchange for various things? Does it guidance and wisdom? What do you think? technology. You think we traded tech? What do we trade for? I don't know. There's so much lore about tech traded access to technology for reduction. Rearrange to pick us up however you want. I think that could possibly be true. You know, I at least in the abduction phenomenon, phenomena, because it's not just one thing probably. I understand that to be a more recent development rather than like an age old ancient abduction thing. You know, maybe there's credence to that theory that technology was exchanged for people essentially. It makes sense to me why the legacy program structure has largely been kept secret just in terms of how saps work, but you're right in terms of like just the general human. Yeah, public not stumbling across definitive NHI vehicles, NHI bodies. Besides a few select cases like Virginia and others, it does seem to be a larger secrecy element at play. Yeah, or even like, I mean, so many stories of taking photos of them of the craft and then those photos either mysteriously disappearing or even more bizarre feeling compelled to delete them, which I've heard too. Yeah, which is a wild thing when you think about it. Like you take a photo crystal clear of a craft hovering in the sky. You say this is it. This is the one. This is the one's going to break the world. This is it. It's disclosure. And then you look at it again, and your phone, your thumb goes to the delete button. Then you go to recently deleted and you delete that too. And you go, why did I just do that? Yeah, and the testimony of people who say they've had extremely close encounters with craft, but like consciously think, I will not take out my phone and film this. Right. Which that's so weird. Or completely paralyzed and incapable of doing so. Yes. A lot of, you know, I get a lot of phone calls of people who have all sorts of wild testimony. One of them, I mean, a whole video on the, you know, the black triangles and things. I've got over. I think I'm up to between 50 and 100 separate triangles, triangle sightings and not just triangle. I was like a triangle in the sky. It's like low hovering over the head, no noise, darker than the night sky, you know, and just hang in there and then take it off. And there was one guy who is in Germany and I remember this call because he called back three times to try and get his message straight because of the, you know, he's German and he's just he wanted to get it, you know, and he's like, I have a, I was outside having a cigarette with my, with my girlfriend at the time and, and we look in the sky and there was this black triangle and all of a sudden it comes and it goes right in over our heads and we can't move and we are paralyzed. And then it just takes off. And, and then he goes, and now before I was a atheist and now I don't know what to believe, but I know there's something more. And that's how it ended. That was like, that's just a confession. That's all that is. Is that the guy from Germany who had editors recreate his experience because there's a famous triangle sighting from Germany that like R UFOs or Reddit community recreated and it's essentially somebody sitting in their backyard that a triangle comes right up to them. It sounds identical to that guy's, but I've heard a few of those, right? I've heard a few of those like where they're right above and you can't move. Well, to me, that makes sense because in my opinion, there's non-human triangles and there's our hours too. Right. There's one story that I'm kind of working on right now. And, but the witness said that like when she was in the presence of these beings and this is, this is neither here nor there for this discussion, but it's kind of interesting. I thought I'd share that like the beings there and she even though she was in her apartment, she felt like it wasn't her apartment. She felt like I don't, she's like, I felt like I was nowhere. Like even though I could physically look at my kitchen, I didn't feel like I was in my kitchen. And so she's like, I don't know if that was in their ship or something or there was, and I thought and I said, oh, that's really interesting because you hear so many tales of these beings somehow and some capacity controlling the flow of time around a certain area, whether that's the craft or the being. You know, there's stories of people sitting under a craft and they feel the grass growing through their toes. And like, there's time behaves differently around these, around this technology, around these beings. And I thought to myself, well, what would it feel like to be in a timeless space? Right. You would have no anchor to reality. All your brain knows how to do is to anchor you through time and space. They're linked. We have time so that we know when we are and where we are. You know, we have time and space. Those two things make it so that we're here and now without one of them, I think you lack the other as well. If you take away, just as if you take away space, if I sit you in a black void. There's no time. You will not, you will have no clue about the passage of time. I can have you and they've done this experiment where you write down how slowly time goes by and you're off by months, right? And so, you know, for her maybe, if time didn't exist, you would feel like you're nowhere. Even though you can recognize your kitchen, you'd be like, this isn't my, I don't know, I'm nowhere. That's interesting. I thought that was a really interesting take. It's also very disturbing to think that another intelligence can basically strip away your like temporal and spatial understanding of where you are. But there's been many weirder things that have happened with abductees, including what you just said about people feeling like they can't move, feeling frozen in front of beans or craft. Yeah. Let me ask you this. In terms of UFO stuff, I don't think we've ever talked about this specific thing subject before. What are your top five crash retrieval cases? And if you're leaving some out because I talked about this with Jesse and I just forgot to include some and I kind of got people saying, why didn't you include this? And then on the spot, it's hard. So just five of your favorite that come to mind. I think Aztec is number one. Nice. Aztec is only because I think I've researched that one more than any other crash. And so therefore my conviction is very high on it. Kecksburg, I think, is a really interesting one as well. I guess I'm trying to, I'm trying to just think of other ones right now. Like if we, if we were to name a few, okay, Roswell, but there's multiple in Roswell, I think that if there's, I heard somewhere from someone that it might have been two crafts that hit each other that collided. People might be confusing that with this 74 Koyama case, because in that case, so that is a case that's, it's very speculative because it's mostly based upon one weird report that supposedly came out of the agency, but that was where a disc-shaped craft impacted a, a small single engine airplane. Oh, interesting. Whoa. And then the UFO crash, Mexican retrieval team goes to get it. Mexico, Mexican retrieval team is dead. The US likes to say it was from like a contaminant or toxic biohazard within the craft. It was probably because we killed them. Why? It's a great case. It's really interesting. What's the name of that case? Koyama, 1974, Koyama, Mexico case case. And I can send you the didn't that report that this is mostly based on. I love the case. There's also, I mean, Kingman, I think, is one of the big ones. And that one, I think, is the genesis for a lot of what we know about these beings, I think. It was referred to by, I think, Dan Berish. And I really ate that up when he talked to it. I was like, really? And he's like, yeah, that was like apparently that meeting was a planned meeting. But it went down in a different, like it wasn't supposed to be a crash. Right. It was supposed to be an exchange of like biologics, which I thought was really interesting. You know, there's the, there's the historically, like the lost city of gold, the lost work of Harry Drew on the Kingman case. And according to him, there were three separate cases in late May of 1953. His work's called Seven Days in May. And primary witness Arthur Stancell observed the second of the three crashes. And according to Drew, similar to the Aztec case, it was a new experimental radar system, like the Lashup radar that, you know, triangulated radar fields interfered with various systems of the craft in this three crashed. Well, wild. I guess another one if we were to stay out of America would be Shag Harbor. Nice. That's a great case. Yeah. Because there's a lot of corroborating evidence there in Shag Harbor as well. And I don't know, there's something about the maritime as well that I, I kind of trust those people out there. There's salt of the earth, you know, and there's a lot of weird things that happened in the maritime's too. Right. You know, obviously you're by large bodies of water. But even in Newfoundland, there was, what was that big boom that happened? I think in 78, there was like a massive like underground. Whoa. Sort of boom. And this is wild too. This is a wild case. I researched this recently. I'm forgetting some of the details, but essentially one of the witnesses was biking home as a kid. And like this huge like boom happens, right? Now fences are knocked over. Power lines are blown up. Circuit breakers TVs are burning up. And it was like a large like boom. And this kid even sees this like orb float in front of him. Well, this like colored orb that just like floats in front of him, pulsates and then darts off or disappears. And other witnesses say they witnessed a lot of lights in the area as well, like floating orbs or whatnot. Well They were never given a satisfactory explanation. It wasn't an earthquake. The seismograph never went off and You know, obviously there's no nuclear testing in the area but what it did do it triggered loss alamos physicists there was one I'm forgetting their names I blanked on their names, but there was a physicist from loss alamos and There was a weapons engineer and both of these people traveled to Newfoundland, which is this island in you know the East Coast The Maritimes of Canada went to this tiny little town Bell Bell Harbor I think is the name of the town and And we're taking soil samples. There was military there There were like men in black telling people hey, you know, we don't know what this is whatever whatever So I thought that was really interesting that like a nuclear physicist from loss alamos at the time You know, this is still Cold War era would be traveling because they probably picked up some you know some signal So that's another case in Canada. That's just interesting But there's no other there's no physical evidence. There's no crash. Right. There's no sign of a bomb Just something something happened there that alerted them and not to mention during that time they also had the what is it the Vela satellite system, which was like this 12 They had like a dozen satellites that were looking out for like gamma ray flashes and like this is all you know in preparation for some type of imminent You know nuclear strikes, so they had all these satellites running up and so they might have like picked something up And that's what signaled to them to go there, but Neither here nor there not really crashed but an interesting Canadian event. I feel as though there are many maritime crash retrieval stories That have just yet to be told and will we ever hear about them who knows but there seem to be quite a few What's what's your top three? So top three I'll let me try and be really specific just so I don't try and leave anything out Okay, and I'll say no Roswell I will say no Aztec just because you know I've devoted so much time to that already and I'll I say I do think that was a real you've moved on from Aztec to me It is a real crash retrieval case where non-human biologics were recovered and there was a massive cover up And the primary witnesses the case were slandered and William Steinman was able to figure out that dishonest court case Do you hear about the pastor that went there? Yes Yes, it's talked about and that pastor's talked about in scot and Suzanne Ramsey's book. Yeah, wild, right? So I'm gonna take out Aztec Okay, and I'm gonna take out Roswell of course, and I'll also take out Kecksburg Okay, because for me that's another four. That's another cut dry Yeah, one Kingman I've covered Kingman before but there are still so many secrets yet to uncover with Kingman and just so many people of Importance that were named in the Kingman case whether that be Erick Henry Wang or Dr. Ed Dull both of whom you know It's it's so Wang I talked about my Air Force project and talked about how he's connected to former major commands in the Air Force that comprised the modern day Air Force Material command and you know that interesting kind of evolution and how I think Air Force material command inherited you know a lot of the 1940s 1950s legacy program elements that involved the Air Force. I'm sure I'll say Jonathan Wagans Because oh, yeah, his his is wild as well. I believe that's a real crash retrieval case, but I'm still inside of a mountain Which is like so I mean so bizarre in terms of flight trajectory and but I'm gonna include that one Just because I think there's more to be told from that story including like one of the two from Sargent Allen and Adkins trying to get a little cute with me When reaching out to them. I think I've said this to you before but one of the two Sargent that Wagant was with Allen or Adkins I emailed from my UAP girl about gmail.com email just said hello, you know You've been implicated before and there's this. There's a real nice greeting email nothing accusatory And they respond back with my full like legal birth name. That's like they're just trying to get cutesy Give my full name there and I don't like that, but you know, there's more to be told Have you tried to reach out again? Have you responded? No, I might though You should I might though. Uh, so I mean they can take a cue from Jonathan Wagant who comes out says this has he Has he like felt any reprisal any any not since he faced some nasty reprisals back in the early 2000s and late 90s? Right, but not since your podcast. No, okay, so maybe they can take a cue from him be like yes, that's a bad I think as he was already dragged the mud and probably you know same thing with with Dave Grush and what people did to him and Dylan Borland People are fine with letting Jonathan Wagant fall on the sword and you know be picked apart. Sure, you know He's he's lived a hard life since them and my heart goes out to that man A last one gosh, let's uh, so Kingman Jonathan Wagant and I'm going to say that 1992 deep sea recovery off the coast of Aberdeen, Scotland Right. Yeah, I'm in terms in terms of mechanics of that case and involved elements and and maritime elements involved in that case I do think that is a real retrieval case by naval elements as well. Yeah, and that's an interesting thing too because you know When you talk about retrievals there are Patigories of retrievals. There are these archaeological digs not unlike, you know what Ross Coltart, you know presented on his show Which I don't think is you know whether or not a crash happened I don't know but I don't think those bodies are legit. That's just my my personal gestalt on the matter But there are archaeological days we've heard this from Bob was are we for this you know throughout Throughout you have a lure that you know they come across these these things whether in the water or whether you know Deep down in the dirt or whatever or whether they build a building Around it, you know, whatever that is But but then there are like the water ones. Yeah, which the Navy take care of and then there are like the land ones Which the Air Force seems to take care of and then their compartmentalized also like you know You have the Department of Naval Intelligence that allegedly ran you know S4 and Those I assume are all recovered craft from the water Yeah, where's like, you know, you go to a right pat and those I assume are all like the land ones and they've got their own sort of collections And then you have the spooky privatized crash retrieval groups like Northrop's that take down craft and then you have the craft Right are down to versus crashed and then you have the craft that are gifted and and then you have the craft that are small enough That a CH47 can pick it up or small enough it can be put in a Konex container and then a craft too big You might need a low-boy trailer and then a craft too big. You might need to build something around it. Yeah It there's there's many many many a category and that was one of the things that frustrated with the age of disclosure too for maritime recoveries You know Dan Farah went with his kind of retort to my comments and said well this CIA can just contract like seal team six to drag these out of the water That's untrue. You need a large naval logistics elements to get this craft. So yeah, there and then of course There's craft retrieved and then where do they go do they go to the army to they go to the Navy to the go to the Air Force which compartments at their programs do they go to Maybe they're they go to a joint space Yeah, joint pot that the NR row or this or or UFO chop shop. Yeah, yeah, that takes them apart and splits them up into you know all the where I don't think they go is the Contractor. Yeah, the lucky martens unless it's the weird privatized and not and not in a You know because a contractor you can just send it part of the bulk or part of the hall and just be like hey This is some new thing we're working on can you you know make this out of it like they're not gonna know no The safest place to store the crafter in the go coast the government-owned contractor operated installations and these are the DOE and an essay national labs say in Dia Lawrence Livermore Los Alamos and including Oak Ridge and the Y-12 complex and most people don't know this Air Force plant 42 Plant 42 is a go-ko complex It's government-owned contractor operated the three that's the one south of Which Air Force Base Edwards Edwards and of course southwest of China Lake as well. It's Antelope Air space Valley Of course, uh, I can't remember this specific division, but plant 42 is a division of Wright Patterson Hmm, and it's government-owned Air Force owned contractor operated the only three contractors that are allowed on the special government airfield of Plant 42 are Boeing Lockheed Martin and north of Perman right three of the the big five defense industrial prime contractors Wild what do you make of that billionaire that came out on Ross's video? T.T.W. T.M. T.W. Yeah, I Have not given that it's fair shake yet in terms of listen to his whole testimony But I'm like you I think the the bones presented. I'm very skeptical life. It is interesting though What struck me is more interesting than well, not maybe not more interesting than aliens, but more interesting than the fake bones I presume is the idea that this guy would have been because he's the head of like some logistic you know Enterprise and he would have been contracted for a crash Retrieval in his words The D.O.D. hit him up and said, you know, we're gonna send you, I guess, JSA guys or whatever and you're gonna you're gonna go handle You're gonna run a Retrieval using your logistical knowledge, right? I just thought that was so interesting because One, I'm like how easy is that to fall slipped through your hands and leak you're dealing with a civilian contractor who is Pretty green to this matter. Maybe he's done other contracts in the past, but something so sensitive You know if true Would mean you're risking Decades of secrecy in the hands of a civilian that is, you know, not as Doesn't have a track record like the like the big five Number one number two could that just be like a limited way of You know, maybe they don't know if If it's a real retrieval, and they send him in case as sort of a scapegoat, or is it completely confabulated and they're like, "Go there," and then while they're misdirecting and going this way. My money would be on possibly retrieval down to the point where DOD elements know it's not a real retrieval. At least from what I understand for the in-house national security council derived retrieval programs, these use parallel JSOC elements and actually institutionalized logistics coordinating groups such as the CIA, OGA, Office of Global Access, not privatized logistic companies. Right. If it was privatized, I would expect it there to be a private retrieval team, like North RIPPS team, which doesn't answer to DOD, it answers to North of Grumman's own win. But there wasn't even a crashed UFO in this account, right? The crash was the bones, right? Yeah. They buried them. Apparently, there was a crash, and they built a church over it, and then there was this excavation that yielded these bodies. But I will say too, like this could also just been a way of sort of litmus testing, right? The contractor in this case and me, like, could this be another guy that helps us out? Well, that seems to somewhat make sense to me. I told you about the crash retrieval operator, the claim-clarash retrieval operator that got the briefing about, "Don't be a leaker like Bob Lazar." This guy's first retrieval mission, they would have technical briefings about just standard aircraft retrievals and how to get them in Konex containers and clean up different parts. His first retrieval operation was a triangle craft on the Nellis range, but this triangle craft was super light, and it was like a crappy group of rivets. So in his mind, he thinks that this was just a dummy craft, like a weird shape. See how he would fit. Exactly. Like a litmus test. I think that that makes a lot of sense. You wouldn't throw anybody into the deep end like that, so safe to say this guy will not be hired again for another crash retrieval. As soon as I saw him come out, I was like, "Even if this is real, you know, like that they did hire him, you got to do all the due diligence on the body's first. Because then if you smell that it might be fake, that the body's might be fake, the contract was real, the bodies are fake, then you can piece together yourself, you're like, "Oh, this is a test." But if you're not, I think if you're not bright enough to figure that out, like, you know, they're happy to see that interview with Ross and be like, "Oh, glad he did that." Yeah, maybe TW's organization could have served a strategic purpose like to aid rapid reaction teams because they have assets in different parts of the conist or Oconis outside of the continental United States, and this was just to see how he would react in a bizarre situation. So you uncover bones and, you know, maybe he failed the obvious test, which was to take pictures and release them up the bones and just to see maybe how he'd react if there were real bones or real bodies or a real odd craft. And but hats off as well because, you know, being in his position wanting to disclose that type of stuff, I mean, it takes a lot of bravery and it takes, you know, you're going against the defense department who just gave you probably a really hefty contract to do something, and you're outing them for the sake of, you know, disclosure, I think that's a noble sort of quest, but ultimately probably helps them more than it hurts them. I've only given TW's story so far, one pass over. So I'm, I'm really poorly forced on it, but to me, fair enough, and myself as well, I'm not maybe fully informed and there might be some information left out. Right. To me, he doesn't seem like a grifter type trying to press fake skeletons. I don't think so either. So I just think there's more, I think it's a complicated story. I do too. I actually commend Ross for covering it because, again, most people won't see past the bones potentially being fake. They won't look past that and see, oh, the DOD is hiring people on crash retrievals, right? This is very interesting. Like weird excavations. Exactly. Who passed the litmus test is what I want to know? Are there other. Exactly. There are other contractors outside of the big five because they're being named dropped in every single Gerb video. We're probably like, we need some new blood in here, we can't track them. Those big five can make their own shell companies. Sure. And of course, like that's true too. Lockheed has some of those. Of course, there's spin off companies of all of these like Lockheed Barnes, former enterprise integration group. That was, yeah, but I mean, like a successful logistics company would be of a pretty valuable asset to these retrievals. About 100%. Especially if up until now, they have to rely on the CIA OGA and maybe the CIA OGA is getting burned lately because Lou and co are tossing the live hand grenade to that saying, "Here you go. If we get disclosure, you're screwed." That's right. And maybe these, you know, retrievals, if they don't fall under sort of official sap or usap designation, maybe there's more money to be made for the program. Or maybe there's also such heavy competition with privatized retrieval teams. You send a contracted asset to not risk your own blue assets getting destroyed. A lot of babies. I know. Well, that's because both of us are not too well-versed and it's fun to think about. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to go and turn on this camera. We got some questions from the audience. Okay. Be right back. All right. So as many of you know, if you're part of the Discord here, and if you're not only part of the Discord, but if you're a member of the channel, which you can be, sign up below or go to Patreon, you get a chance, one of the many perks. You get a chance to ask our guests a question. Now, this was extremely short notice, it was actually today while we were filming some other stuff. I had a quick minute and asked our top secret little Discord about, you know, I asked them to come up with some questions. And they did. And like, I mean, last minute, I'm just going to show you this is last minute. These are all the questions they had just for you. So that an awesome team. Yeah. Oh, they're hyper responsive. I love these guys so much. So unfortunately, we couldn't get to all of them. But I did choose three and we're going to show those up right now. Bup, bup, bup, all right. First one here is by Tattle Slug. This board is so cool. I'll never get sick of that. Why have you not investigated Pratt and Whitney? Well, what is Pratt and Whitney? Pratt and Whitney is a division now of Raytheon. In terms of their importance to the possible larger conversation of UFOs, that is just what I know about them so far. Well, Tattle Slug, to try and answer your question of why I have not investigated Pratt and Whitney thus far, I try and spend as much time as humanly possible on basically a contractor, a group of contractors, or an FFRDC at a time, I'm going to try and soak up as much knowledge pursue as much as possible. If you have seen here, Tattle Slug, I barely even talked about Raytheon at all. Just as I even talked about general dynamics, just I haven't really talked about Sparry Rand unless he's all out of coming videos. Maybe. I think so. Raytheon's a tough egg to crack. Raytheon's a really hard one. It's almost because Raytheon, so the last supper at the end of the Cold War when the five primes were formed by soaking up a ton of smaller defense contractors. Raytheon seemed to get in their foot in the door really late in the game, by swallowing in stuff like eSystems. Raytheon to me is one of the newest contributors to legacy programs. That's going to probably take me some time to be able to get like a really firm understanding or some really direct information there, but Pratt and Whitney and Raytheon will 100% be a future video. I just need to make sure I expand my knowledge base. So funny. I can just imagine everybody at Raytheon just like quivering right now and being like, fuck. Yeah. Gurb's talking about making a video about us. Now I'm like, not just shit. I'm 99.9% sure that Pratt and Whitney is under Raytheon. So on the 0.1% chance I'm wrong, please forgive me, Tatl Slug. But I don't think that-- And even if you're not wrong, you'll eventually correct yourself, even if you are wrong, rather. And speaking of being corrected, great segue. Have you ever been corrected by someone on the inside of one of these abbreviations? A abbreviation? So we'll just say that as like an acronym. Yeah. All the time. Yeah. All the time. I had to be corrected in terms of how I viewed the contractor DOD relationship. I initially bought into the false idea that people like how put off like to say that UFO legacy programs are hidden the contractor specifically to avoid from FOIA. I had to be corrected by several people over the course of over a year and basically learn that the missing link there is the FFRDC, federally funded research and development centers. So much more will be discussed about FFRDCs in time, and I cannot wait to see it. You seem very excited about FFRDCs, possibly more than anyone on the planet. Miter aerospace corporation, Rand corporation, Center for Naval Analysis, IDA, there will be more coming. I can't stress enough the importance of FFRDCs, especially DOE and NSA, national labs and so forth. Any go-co institution I will be all over. Noted. So that's probably the biggest thing I've been corrected on. Other subtle, smaller stuff like, you know, maybe this person you should have talked about them, but I don't really do that. I don't talk at the behest of other people. If somebody will say, hey, who has worked in the program, hey, Gerb, I saw this video. It was pretty interesting that you talked about this, but I noticed you didn't talk about this person or this person. It doesn't mean I'm just going to. to regurgitate that name or anything, that's going to mean, hmm, maybe I need to go search into that specific person's work history or what they've done or who they've worked for, how they might tie into the larger conversation. So maybe like four or five months down the line, I'll then include that person in a video because I haven't expanded knowledge base of how they might fit into a certain piece of the puzzle. What's your workflow like for these videos? Is this, do you have, I can just imagine this beautiful mind scenario of all these red cords tying together these piece of information on a giant pinboard? But what is your workflow like? I see you got a notebook here. Are you constantly taking notes? Are you on your phone? Are you, do you have like filing cabinets at home with a lot of this information? Like how do you, how do you get this information coherent? So I write everything down with hand just because I remember things better. I had to learn the hard way and college while studying engineering, that taking notes on a computer, I would not remember it. So yeah. So I will, I will do that. Everything I come across that will be of importance, I save. I've, I've learned some hard lessons of having sites or some websites or something. I want to revisit that are then taken down and of course not archived on the web on the internet archive. Really? Yeah. So everything I come across, I will save immediately and put it into a relevant folder. I'm, I'm hyper organized with my folders down to like a painstaking degree, whether it be a document, whether it be a website, whether it be a LinkedIn profile, whether it be a video. I save everything. Nice. So when I embark on a project, I usually make a notion or an off, I usually make a handwritten outline of how I want to structure something because like you said, I have a billion different ideas in my head and I, I need to somehow transfer that into what I would consider a cohesive something. Yeah. I'll start by writing out what chapters I want to cover, what large overviews and then within those chapters subgroups and I'll always have a separate list for personnel and dates and names because I in videos, you know, starting a while back and being around out, I want to be as hyper specific as humanly possible. Of course. So always get the names. And then I'll do those chapters. I'll do any sort of relevant data I can get. Anytime I have a name, I'll find their work history. I will find public interviews they've done, I'll find connections with other people. She's constantly spiraling down more and more rabbit holes as you get to like the bottom and start digging into these things. You're finding a name. Well, you got to go down who they worked for. Oh, this is a new business. Got to go down that. Who's the president of that? Oh, got to go down that and you're constantly falling down these holes. Yes. I need to get it to the point where when I write the script that I don't have to sit with like wondering what I'm going to write, I need to get my brain to the point where the script then for the video is begging itself to be written. You understand every all the ins and outs. The knowledge has to be able to go directly from my brain now onto the page without like relying on my notes, checking things off. Yeah. I need to talk about this. I need to talk about that. And that's the lovely thing about talking to you in person is that you realize that all of this stuff that you're, you know, this isn't some Chatchee BT script, this isn't, you know what I mean? This is your life's work and it really means something to you because you talk about this stuff with not only conviction, but you have a reverence for it and you have an insane memory for it, which tells me that you're, you know, obviously exceptionally passionate about it. And so and that's the only way that you could convey these ideas. Yeah. Well, you couldn't convey them in a way that's in any capacity half-assed because it just wouldn't it fall apart. Yeah. Like I always say, the whole channel idea started off as a PowerPoint for some friends. Yeah. And ever listened. Who are no longer your friends? No. No. No. They saw this. The specific ones that asked me now would be like, hey, so you know, you met Bob Lissard. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because for the most part, you know, if you want to keep your friends, don't show them a slide show of, you know, FFRDCs, you know, well, unless you want to keep using the friends because I'm down. I'm down to listen to them. But yeah. But the must've been a shock, a bit of an ontological shock for lay friends to sit around and what's Gerb going to show us? And then just like, wow, the UFO history. Most of my friends don't know I have my channel. Really? Yeah. I really am not big on kind of the notoriety or stuff. I, like you said, I'm just so passionate about the topic. I have to talk about it. I have to try to investigate legacy programs. It's not like something I want to do for glory. I just have to do it. Do you just bite your tongue when you're like, you know, you're training MMA or you're like hanging with friends and they go, and they go, oh, did you see that video of the fleer tick-tack the other day? Do you just go, yeah, that's cool or do you go, hold on a second. So at my Jiu Jitsu gym, a couple of wise guys, I guess they've been on Reddit because they'll go around saying, you know, hey, they're Sam. He's in the CIA. So now there's a running gag around my gym that I'm in the CIA. Which for the record, no, I'm not. But so that's been going around my gym now and the hilarious. It's all fun and game. You should lean into it. No, no, because I don't know people because I every now and then I see like on Reddit or something that I'm in the CIA. That doesn't make sense. The CIA would be lucky to have you by the way. But still that doesn't make sense, I implicate the CIA and legacy stuff all the time. Exactly. And then people use the argument, like, people might be a CIA agent because they're saying UFOs are actually advanced stealth aircraft. I say both. I say there are UFOs that we've recovered and our own derived technology and that the CIA works on both. Yeah. And do an illegal shit. Yeah. I despise the CIA. That's something a CIA agent might say. But then the worst part of the video shortly is the recording because I hate hearing this out of my voice and then editing that takes so long. Yeah. You get used to that. Oh, I have. No, it's actually good. I actually like at the first you revere sort of looking at yourself, yeah, especially on an off day. Yeah. You know, it's not we all get off days. We look like feel like we look like shit and you just got to be in front of a camera. And you just got like muscle through and like edit your own face and your voice and it's terrible. But after a while, it's actually great because that part of you that was a little vein starts withering away and you kill it with every video. You just start killing that part of you. That's vain. And you just stop caring what you look like. And then when that happens, I tend to feel your personality shines a little bit more. And people actually begin to get more interested in what you're saying. Right. So it's kind of like a cool lesson to, you know, go through the mud and you know, hear yourself and see yourself. I think it's over time. It's a good thing. All right. Thanks for giving us a little glimpse into your mind. Yeah. Thank you, Stan B. We got one last one. And this is a really great question from Hex. Hex always comes through with these awesome questions. Shut up, Hex. If you could be president for any legacy program event, what would it be? Like historical event? Any legacy event, any program event. So, um, and any part of that event, you know what I mean, like where the, where the legacy program comes in and does something. Oh, president. Sorry. I read president. Yeah. If you could, if you could be president for any legacy program event, what would it be? If you could be boots on the ground, whether that's, you know, unloading, testing, being there for the initial retrieval, the bodies, uh, which would it be one of your favorite crashes? No. So, what I, what I think I would want to do is, is president Truman from what I understand helped set up a lot of the legacy structured by empowering the National Security Council. What would become the, uh, Air Force Systems Command, the defense, no, the Office of Research and Development and involving Vannevar Bush in the Office of Naval Intelligence to kind of spearhead legacy programs, including allegedly classified presidential executive orders in, in July of 1948 that gave custody of recovered discs to go co-institutions like DOE, NSN, NNSA, FFRDC, National Labs, and DIA and so forth. But from what I understand, it was Eisenhower that set up much of the legacy program infrastructure that would evolve and really perpetuate the Manhattan project too. So, you know, as I understand, there was stuff like the 5412 Committee, a special subgroup of the National Security Council that actually housed, well, we, what, it was called at one point the MAG-12, just a 12. I don't know when that disappeared, uh, I don't know if it still has a skeleton of itself, but it's not the definitive authority it once was. I would like to be present for that series of decisions by Eisenhower who basically set up the entire skeleton for legacy stuff. I think if I understood that because I'm starting to understand how legacy scattered itself into the wind and where various pieces broke off, it's so much more to learn, but how things transitioned and how fiefdoms developed and starting to think like who might those fiefdoms be and then what contractors broke away their own breakway, Northrop Grumman, their own. It would help you understand the, the entirety of the program. Right. Because also if I understood those efforts by Eisenhower, I could, I could find at the, the starting point for the entire reverse engineering and, yeah, and material exploitation program and find that whole infrastructure because the empowering those legacy program elements probably also had some sort of understanding or read on our adversaries' capabilities, you know, China and Russia and what they might be doing. And I would want to specifically be there for the, the legacy guidelines that Eisenhower set up in the 50s. Yeah. A boardroom with the, the famous 12 would be interesting, wouldn't it? Yeah, 100%. I mean, sure, like being on Jonathan Wagen's shoulder and, and watching his experience might be more interesting, but the way I could best understand and learn would be that. That's it. That's a great answer. Sam, thank you for sharing. Where can we find you? You can find me on YouTube at UAPGurb. I will be working on a website 'cause I wanna put some of my scripts and ideas just a page because I know some people like a reading medium more than watching medium. So just so I have some stuff on text, but you have to find me on YouTube at UAPGurb or Spotify at UAPGurb and on there, you can find links to my discord. If you wanna chat with me directly, I'm always in there trying to respond to people. So I'm always happy to talk about if it's legacy programs, you will get me there in a moment's notice. Well, you're gonna get blown up after this, I have a feeling. And let me just say, I always put this shout out. If you, I ask you only to honor this email address if you have had first-hand experience or exposure to legacy programs, this being UFO crash retrieval in reverse engineering. If you have knowledge or tips or points of contact, please email me at [email protected]. And I would be very much appreciative and of course, respect your privacy and employ a better operational security than some. Well, you're a true gentleman and I can vouch for you keeping secrets. I even, small anecdote, but when I told Gurb in Austin who the guest was, and it's something you didn't know, but I told you who the guest was. And I said, you know, you gotta keep this. It's gonna be Bob Lazar. You gotta freak down, oh my God. And I said, you can't tell anybody. And I was like, there's other people coming here, but I just like, we don't want too many people knowing. It's gonna be a surprise. And Xander Jones from the Night Shift podcast. He told me, confided in me. He's like, you can trust Gurb because I pressed him. Oh my God, yeah. And he goes, who's it gonna be? And he actually guessed Bob Lazar. And you said, nope, yep. And so at that moment, I was like, oh, you can really trust this guy. Dude, Xander's definitely watching this. - Yeah. - I stirred me like a nap. - And you would not stop asking it. - And you were steadfast in your resolve. So I commend you on that. - Thank you, Chris. - Thank you for holding that secret. It means a lot, so you can, you're definitely trustworthy. Thank you Sam, appreciate your time. And yeah, let's go, let's go do the show in Montreal. - Sounds great, thanks Chris. - All right. (upbeat music) ♪ Step out and style, take a little breather ♪ ♪ Majestic in your hand, you're feeling fine ♪