UFO Experts Come Forward (Full Documentary) - IPN LIVE TOUR

Propel Fitness Water. With Gatorade Electrolytes, zero sugar, and vitamins. Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade Electrolytes. This Labor Day at Lowe's. Get up to 45% off select major appliances. Plus, deals on select materials and tools to keep the job moving. Right now, get a free DeWalt 20-volt max battery 2-pack when you buy a select DeWalt 20-volt max tool. At Lowe's, we have what you need to keep your job moving. Valid through 9-13. All supplies last. Selection varies by location. See Lowe's.com for more details. I just spent two weeks traveling across the west coast of the United States for the It's Probably Nothing live shows. And what I captured during this trip profoundly changed me. ♪♪ First stop was Tucson, Arizona, where the guest was former CIA officer John Ramirez. This was co-hosted by my friend Josh from the Polarity YouTube channel. I asked John if he could share a UFO sighting from the area. Well, I wasn't a first-hand witness to it. I learned about it. It was on surveillance. And I contacted the individual who had the original video released to him, purportedly, allegedly, by a source in Homeland Security. It's about a craft that was followed by a Homeland Security air asset. And the craft was nicknamed the Rubber Ducky because that's what it looked like. And to describe it, it was kind of triangular in shape. And it was doing what we would. We would call that signature management. And you didn't get a really good view of it. And the rubber ducky part came about because at the top of this craft was some kind of appendage or some kind of protrusion that would look like a duck head. So you think about a rubber ducky toy in a swimming pool. Think about that. But think of it flying and doing all kinds of strange maneuvers. So this was tracked by this. And it was a Homeland Security air asset. Subsequently, I believe it was attributed to an asset for the U.S. government doing border security. And it just was a type of drone that was probably not acknowledged. It wasn't doing incredible speeds like a UAP because this air asset was able to follow it. And that's just one of many high strangeness things that happened. It's a great place. If you want to see UAP, move to Arizona. Sedona seems to be like a hotspot for this. Yes, indeed. Have you been out to Sedona? Yes, I've been on a UFO tour sponsored by Melinda Leslie. Oh, yes. She's with the Center for the New Age. She talks about the MyLab stuff, right? Yes, Center for the New Age. She does talk about MyLab experiences that she had. I went on a UFO tour. And it's worth every penny because she gives your money back if you don't see one. Wait, so you saw something out there? I saw a UFO. It was a UAP craft, not a satellite. I know what satellite trajectories look like in the sky. But satellites do not traverse the sky, then turn around, loop around, go left, go right, and then go back to its trajectory again. And it was seen through night vision goggles. If you took the night vision goggles off, you could not see it. But with the night vision goggles on, you can click. You can clearly see this particular object, which I consider to be a UAP. And this is coming from someone who did signals intelligence. Signals intelligence, yes. And I had my fair share of looking at optical imagery collected by NRO as part of my job. So I knew that this was not a satellite. Satellites would tear itself apart doing those type of maneuvers in space. Look at that. We got the crash saucer. This is a cozy vibe. I like this a lot. Yeah. And these seats are damp. I know. We're going to have John Ramirez. How long was he in the CIA? 25 years. 25 years. Sitting in the hot seat tonight. We're bringing up 2027. We're bringing up hybrids. There's no escaping John. Have you seen anything like that while you were working with the CIA? Only from the window of an airplane. I was going to a UFO conference in the summer of 2001. It was before 9-11. We were flying across the U.S. from Baltimore, Washington International to LAX. I was with my friend, another CIA officer. We went to this UFO conference on our own dime, paying for our own hotel rooms. So it wasn't anything official. And back then, United Airlines allowed passengers to tune in to cockpit communications. You can hear a cockpit talking to the air traffic controllers. I didn't know that. And across the southwest U.S., we were over the southwest U.S., probably right over Arizona. The pilot reported that there was an object traversing his field of view, his flight path, from left to right in that direction. And it was like an orange object going very fast. And I was sitting on the right side in the back of the airplane. I opened my window shade and looked out. And there it was, a bright orange orb receding in the background, going north. So we were going west, east to west, from the east coast to the west coast. And this object was going due north. And I was thinking, oh, that's interesting. We're over the southwest. What's north of us? Oh, Nevada. The pilot was asked by air traffic control whether he wanted to report it. And, of course, back then, no, that's OK. We're not reporting. After Tucson, we hit the road for a six-hour drive through the desert. Our destination for the evening was Joshua Tree, where we all took part in a small group meditation before bed. Lots of meteors, satellites. And as you can see, we're in the middle of the desert. for this little thing. That was nuts. That got so bright. Whoa! I'm recording it. I, you know, your guess is as good as mine. It could just be a rotating piece of space debris for all I know, but whatever. It was still fun to see. It was the next day and it was time to get on to our next destination. But before we did that, I wanted to visit a place known only as Giant Rock. In the middle of the Mojave Desert, nothing for literally miles. And then all of a sudden, this massive rock. Seven stories tall, 6,000 tons of granite. And for years, it was the largest freestanding boulder on earth. Well, a German prospector named Frank Kritzer got there first. He dug himself an apartment underneath it, 400 square feet of home, under a boulder. And sadly, his story ends, well, pretty tragically. You see, in 1942, deputies come out to question him about, you know, being a German in 1942. And there ends up being a standoff and Kritzer dies in an explosion under his own rock. Now enter George Van Tassel. This guy is an aircraft guy. He worked for Douglas, for Hughes. And in 1947, he moves him and his family out to Giant Rock. Takes over the little airstrip, opens up a cafe. August 24th, 1953, two in the morning, George says a man walks up to him. The man got off of the ship and approached me before I even knew there was a ship down. Where were you then? What time of day or night was it? It was two o'clock in the morning and approximately a full moon. Which is like daylight on the desert. And I asked him what he wanted and he said, my name is Sol Gonda and I would be pleased to show you our craft. Was this the guy who gave you the formula for the time machine? That's the man. And what form did the formula take? Did he implant it in your mind by telepathy or did he give you something written in English? He spoke it to me verbally. And you remembered this? There's nothing to it to remember. Will you tell me now? The formula for a time machine? F equals one over T. F equals one. One over T. F being frequency and T being time. Now if I came to you with that story, you'd tell me I'm out of my mind. But here's the thing about George. He told everybody and people came. He started the Giant Rock Spacecraft Convention. First one saw a couple hundred people and by the late 50s, 11,000. 11,000 people. And the machine, well, he ended up building it. It's now known as the Integratron. It's 45 feet across, 38 feet tall. he spent 18 years and every dollar he had. in 1978 just weeks before it was finished and i think josh you told me this was referenced in the raw material i believe they asked if there was any point in completing this because it's not finished it was built and kind of just left i can't remember quite why and raw came back and basically said the time for what it was originally built for has passed and that it's almost like irrelevant at this point in the timeline and it's still standing out there unfortunately it was closed when we came by but this thing normally houses sound baths and meditative retreats and you can just go sit inside it but nobody to this day really has figured out possibly the true potential of this place who knows it remains a mystery next stop is los angeles california where i'll be interviewing daryl anka otherwise known for channeling an extraterrestrial being named bashar you've had your own encounter in that video 1973 to two actually yes yeah so these triangular crafts right exactly uh first time about 150 feet away second time only about 70 feet away in broad daylight with witnesses thank goodness both times um black equilateral triangular ships blue white light on each point dull red orange light underneath first time we were driving down into the valley from west la and it was hovering over a hotel in the distance and at first i was like oh my god what's going on here i thought this was a helicopter or a plane or something but then we realized it really wasn't moving it was just stock still and as we drove past it to go on the interchange it moved from one side of the freeway to the other side of the freeway which is now on my left again because we're moving around in the other direction and then it just took off over the valley like it was riding on a sheet of glass it was the strangest motion i've ever seen because even a small airplane just kind of you know like wobbles through the air a little bit this was just like it was pulled on a string and we are all excited about having seen something like that because you know we've heard stories of ufos but when you finally see something like that it changes everything and then you know we kind of like we're all excited and kind of got over it but a week later when one of the friends was with me again we were in west los angeles we were stopped at a stoplight on a major street and again either exactly the same craft or an identical one flew at about 70 feet above the intersection and went over the neighborhood and we were like looking at each other like what's going on are we being invaded what's happening and so on a whim i decided to just follow it so i turned right she was leaning out the window riding shotgun and she was basically telling me where it was because i was trying to keep my eyes on the road there were a lot of trees in the neighborhood and we would lose it now and then so she would go you know turn left turn right it's over there it's over there and i did my best to stop it and at one point we just completely lost sight of it and i on a whim i just decided i'm just going to make a hard right and i did and she yelled stop i stepped on the brakes we both looked out the window and this thing was hovering just 70 feet above the car we're staring at it and then it just shot up into the clouds in the blink of an eye no sound nothing and we got out of the car we're looking around trying to find it it was gone the weirdest thing the most surreal thing is there was no one in the neighborhood no one watering their lawn no one walking their dog nothing it was like this thing had happened just for us and so from that moment forward i realized you know reality is not what i was told it is there is some other level to it here something's going on because what we had just seen we were always told didn't exist but there it was in broad daylight as close as you could possibly imagine for something like that a real machine in the sky so from that moment forward is when i started doing the research to find out what was going on and ultimately led me here to do channeling propel fitness water with gatorade electrolytes zero sugar and vitamins propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self what propels you propel with gatorade electrolytes this labor day at lowe's get up to 45 percent off major appliances plus deals on select materials and tools to keep the job moving right now get a free dewalt 20 volt max battery 2 pack when you buy a select dewalt 20 volt max tool at lowe's we have what you need to keep your job moving battle through 913 while supplies last selection varies by location see lowe's.com for more details yeah i had looked up your journey it was like a decade later that you discovered channeling and that you uh you were interested in finding out how that worked and you attended a seminar and right i had read a few books on it like the seth material and stuff like that so i knew what channeling sort of was but uh um a particular channel who was conducting seminars um at one point when i had gone to listen and then done so for a few months and thought this is really interesting information the channel offered to teach channeling class and i didn't understand how channeling could be taught i just everything i had read was like well it just sort of hits you like a bolt out of the blue and you you lose consciousness and then people tell you you've been talking for two hours and then you wake up and go what what was that you know but so i was curious to see what this process was and what they did was a series of guided meditations and the entity that the person was channeling is actually teaching the class so we're in these guided meditations for about six weeks into the course and then i received in the middle of this meditation what i can only describe as just this download of memory and information of i understood the ufo had been shown to me on purpose to get me to start doing the research i needed to do i remembered having made an agreement before this life with bashar to do this channeling because these things are set up before the incarnation and the mess i saw an image of his face i heard the word bashar i didn't know what that meant exactly and then i was like oh my god i didn't know what that meant exactly and the message that was there was now it's time for you to begin to do this if this is something you still want to do now all this literally flashed into my head in a split second i didn't say anything to anyone but the minute this happened the entity coming through the channel stopped talking to the class and turned to me and pointed at me and said there's an entity here for you right now if you're ready to begin and i opened my eyes and i was a little shocked and i looked around and one of the classmates behind me somehow had picked up on the image that i saw of bashar's face and she was sketching it on a piece of paper so i said okay okay there's two outside validations that something's going on here it's not just my imagination i'm not hallucinating it's not a side effect of the meditation something real is happening and that's what made me think okay i'll keep practicing and see where this goes i did well enough that the teacher asked me to co-channel the next class with him and during that class a woman came named margo who wanted to do a doctoral thesis paper on the connection between channeling and psychology and i became one of her subjects i would go to her house i would channel for her few friends she would sit in her chair and take her notes and write her paper well words started spreading people made recordings they started sharing them and so the crowds every week that we were doing this started growing and growing and growing we had to do it twice a week to accommodate everyone we had to do it in more houses to accommodate everyone people started sharing the tapes and i got invited to different cities to do it different countries to do it and here i am more than 40 years later still there i am this show like tucson ended up selling out we had such a great time hired some actors to play the men in black and the gray alien which ended up being a huge hit with the fans uh this is where a machine comes in transports the humans to go where to where they need to go like in a ship powered by human blood we also integrated some live interactive moments during the show thanks to yoni one of the show's producers this included mini games questions for the guests trivia and much much more now that that was done time to pack up and head to san francisco to meet up with another co-host as well as our guest whitley streber this place was so impressive adorned by massive greek pillars i thought it was a most fitting venue i'm michael phillip a greek philosophy connoisseur and host of the third eyedrops podcast i think the idea of interacting with higher non-human intelligences was something that was completely taken for granted by our ancestors not only in like in the greco-roman culture though i am i am fond of that one i mean in native cultures in in from east to west it doesn't matter the idea that we were in this giant ecosystem of intelligence is seen and unseen was just like totally taken for granted by these cultures the muse the daimon gods whatever like the idea of course our minds are submerged in this larger ecology of intelligences and beings and i think we've badly degraded our imagination around these things over the course of millennia first for a ton of different reasons but i know you don't really like the term non-human intelligence but i kind of do like it because it it opens up the palette so much in terms of this what this panoply of intelligences could be and i think to a degree we need to return to this world view to some extent there's me a lot of ulterior motives with words like god or angel or demon right people are trying to trojan horse an entire worldview and whole narrative onto you and they use those words sometimes so i share or alien man like i mean it's there's a very specific version of that whole narrative that i'm very suspect of because it can be used to manipulate people's minds right like whether it's project blue beam or some like religious agenda right but i still think we do need to go in those directions to get closer to truth but but it's a very uh windy booby trap laden path you know well i mean i think the idea of what beauty even is what these structures are what they represent like the the geometric and mathematical rules that underpin all of these things like all of those were considered to be these sacred transmission i think at the end of the day we still don't really know what's going on like with the with the phenomenon or how it could or could not be connected i really do think we do need to bring back the idea that we are in an ecosystem of intelligences and many of those intelligences are higher and potentially something we're interacting with all the time completely ignorantly of do you think that we are currently deciphering the ufo topic much like people are still trying to decipher a lot of these allegories yeah for sure and and i think some of the allegories still fit incredibly well when you project things like the phenomenon onto them i mean as you know one of my favorites is plato's cave right and i think there's a a very obvious version of of that like how those two things fit onto one another the phenomenon on the platos cave story essentially this idea that we're living in this lower dimensional slice of reality and there's truly a much deeper grander truth outside of this cave or matrix of experiences of the physical world that we think that we live within um you know there are only shadows on the cave wall in the in the allegory um and i think honestly that this is what the physical world is like shadows on the cave wall of our psyches well what's happening here is this for better or for worse these things are happening all around the world now people are waking up to this especially in the first world in the second world in the third world in the fourth world in the fifth world in the sixth world and it'll spread and deepen over the years and enter into our belief systems and our cultures and our societies in thousands upon thousands of different ways what's happening is very simple mankind humankind is becoming a cosmic species we will be projecting into the stars and into other levels of reality over the next few generations if we survive and that's the open question always with every species everybody has a chance everybody comes to this point and everybody comes to this razor's edge that we're on it's a great place to be if you can balance on the edge of a razor if they show up in numbers it will redirect our whole attention toward them and we will stop going on our own journey innovating and discovering on our own and that's not what they want so i think that their direct contact with us is going to be as careful and judicious as it is possible to be and certain people will be in on many different levels will be in contact there are people in the government i'm i know or and quite sure are in contact uh people on the outside are in contact i'm not the only experiencer who's had this experience and is in contact but i think that there will always be a level of question for everybody even the people who are in contact because if there isn't a level of question then we lose our sense of innovation and we and they're not interested we become supplicants they also it's a there's a sink or swim level to this too because you know a new world if you can take it was said to phil corso and that's the defining reality of contact can we take it we got to pull this out of their hands we gotta shake them until they for till we force them to give us what we want and they will not give us anything on a silver platter uh i'm in the space of working with the public uh that what happens with the government is that the government is fine i don't do that i you know i'm fascinated by it of course but it's not my my part of it in this my part in this is to take people to the point where they say hey what the heck's going on here that's where i want people to go not to say ah that's nonsense but to what the heck is going on here and then i want them to take it from there on their own and go where they want to go and need to go i don't want to tell them where to go i'm not a teacher i am a um more of a more of a catalyst is what i try to be very well put um lastly willie i just wanted to thank you you know being here today with all these people in the crowd it isn't lost on me that a lot of this is attributed to you and your story and what you did for the world and in terms of helping experiencers come forward it was massive and to this day people i interview from all across the world reference seeing the cover of that book and that changing their lives so this tonight is in big part thanks to you so i wanted just to thank you well you know thank you i have to tell you if i had known that when i was starting this out i don't know what would have happened my wife knew she knew from the beginning exactly what was going on she was amazing but she kind of kept it to herself and i i just went out there and did what seemed right we talk about disclosure and we kind of lump it all in like disclosure aliens ufos it's all this one thing but i kind of see it as like there's this government disclosure and there's kind of characters within that realm and then there's kind of like historical ufology that's always been there and there are some so many great stories that that have out you know they outdate this government disclosure by a long long time and i feel like people who are maybe newer since like the last 10 years into this topic see that as all one thing but i feel like as people begin to get more and more maybe like discouraged and losing faith in the government side of things they're going to realize that there's actually and there's two different sides to this and when that fatigue happens they're going to realize that they don't need the government to tell them the aliens are real or that we're not alone or whatever it is that they're looking for because there's enough sort of anecdotal evidence and evidence to be able to tell them that aliens are real or that we're not alone or whatever and just a wealth of stories that you can kind of put the pieces together yourself and it might not be that concrete answer that they're looking for but it's enough to give themselves confirmation and that's where i think it's going to go i i mean i would love for the government to come out and tell us all the things you want to hear but i don't have too much faith in it next stop was portland oregon where we would add my friend and memory champion nelson dellis to the list of co-hosts and we're about to get started so let's get started let's get started let's get started let's get started we're about to surprise the audience with our next guests i've always wanted it to be real that there are aliens or something else out there and i've always thought there was my mom had a experience um with a phenomenon when she was when my my sister was a baby and she'd tell that story all the time and have i ever told you that story no she was um we lived in england until i don't think i was born yet uh and so my sister my sister was born in england and my sister's two years older so she was still a baby in like an infant chair in the back seat of a car my mom was driving home we lived in england at the time and if you've been to england which you have um you know there's streets like that yeah they have highways but their normal streets are very dark um there's no like street lights you know they're winding roads through forests and stuff very common and she was driving home one evening in the dark pitch dark you know in winter where it's like dark by four and she was driving home one evening in the dark pitch dark you know and um yeah suddenly just a bright light right above her and i always asked her like mom could it have been a helicopter a plane she's like no there's we live out of nowhere you know middle of nowhere and that light was so bright it was right on top of me and it stayed with me for like five ten minutes and i was terrified i had this feeling of yeah um like unease she said the radio was static and like her watch stopped um and i was like what's going on and i was like what's going on and i was like um and she like never wants to talk about it because this like the the feeling it gives her um and then it disappeared but yeah anyways i would love to i loved hearing that story i always try to get more out of it like were you abducted what was what did the time say you know like when you stopped and but she could never give me much more than that um but anyway so it's been something i've been fascinated with for a long time um and then i had those experiences with uh remote viewing and kind of out of body and and just tapping deeper into my mind also because of the memory stuff and i don't know i just feel like there's more out there and the more you believe in the that the ufo stuff doesn't seem so impossible anymore knowing you and you tell me all these stories i don't know the whole history like you do and all the different cases and how crazy they get i've also heard stuff from you that i just think i don't know i don't i don't know if i believe that so um you've taught me to be very kind of i'm always i've always been skeptical but you've taught me to kind of be just here at all survey the landscape and pick out those um commonalities you know and the commonalities there's a lot you know that at the very basic level are there and so if you just take that um i think it's very clear that something's out there we tend to remember things that are out of the ordinary that are not of the norm out there bizarre emotionally striking so an experience like that uh is filled with all of that right just probably the wonder the fear the excitement um the novelty are you remembering the actual experience are you remembering the story that you tell right and inevitably when you tell a story we talked about this that you're trying to bring the person into the story and to do that you have to you'll naturally i don't want to say embellish because that sounds like you're purposefully making it false but you're trying to but you do want to try to give the person you're telling the story to the feeling that you had and that requires storytelling drawing out explanations and inserting details that might over time kind of grow and and fluff up uh to something more than it was i i i know if i am if i'm honest with myself and some of the stories that i told i'm sure um with the experiences i've had they probably aren't as accurate as um i now remember them to be the story so you have to be careful with that um and i'm sure every experiencer um there's always going to be an element of truth well not always but uh in the honest ones that are really telling a story of something that happened to them there's going to be an element of truth but you always have to be skeptical and obviously take everything with a grain of salt every little detail propel fitness water with gatorade electrolytes zero sugar and vitamins propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout get back to your best self what propels you propel with gatorade electrolytes this labor day at lowes get up to 45 off select major appliances plus deals on select materials and tools to keep the job moving right now get a free dewalt 20 volt max battery two pack when you buy a select dewalt 20 volt max tool at lowes we have what you need to keep your job moving battle through 913 while supplies last selection varies by location see lowes.com for more details wanted to get your take you know we're in oregon um this state is known for a lot of sightings it has the mcminnville ufo festival it has a a real sort of like collective effervescence around this topic where you know people feel the sense of community around here and now with this show that we're bringing here what does it mean to you to be a part of this in a way that isn't so serious it's good to see that the attitude has changed i mean people are accepting the fact that you know hey maybe all this is real and that really wasn't that that really wasn't the line of thinking back in the 80s so it's it's good to see that you know but i'm kind of a reluctant participant you know i like i said i was i don't follow ufo lore stories or anything along those lines and i certainly didn't believe in any of it before you know getting the the job but um it it is good to see the attitudes changing now i'll be posting this entire show on the channel soon so stay tuned for that and if you want to see all the behind the scenes shenanigans of the entire tour you can join the membership here on youtube or on patreon for just five dollars a month you'll get early access to every upload access to our top secret section on the discord as well as weekly update videos on upcoming and past episodes now oregon has a pretty good amount of history and a pretty important role as far as ufo history goes you know the words flying saucer well that was actually born in pendleton oregon later when asked by a reporter to describe how they flew arnold said their motion was like saucers skipping over water june 1947 kenneth arnold tells a local reporter what he'd seen over mount rainier and within a day the term is everywhere on earth and then in mcminnville 1950 a farmer and his wife look up grab a camera and take two photographs that ran in life magazine and nobody has ever fully debunked them can you tell us a little bit about the mcminnville one do you know anything about it well more about the shape of the craft that always fascinated me and it's got this uh it's it's it's it's a looks like flying saucer in a way doesn't have the it's flat on the bottom and it has a looks like an antenna on the top of a sphere kind of an antenna and it's crooked it's like angled and i found that to be very interesting based on some of the information that you know i retrieved from bob throughout the years and you think about the sport model had a wave guide terminator which is like this little antenna on top of the craft a lot of people draw antennas on the craft even the kids at ariel drew uh an antenna on the craft and here's this craft that has and it's on an angle it's it's tilted and the antenna is tilted which almost makes sense if you really know the science a little bit of the science behind it so we took liberty at a certain point when we were building s4 and there was you know bob saw a whole bunch of a whole bunch of jason anger doors opened a whole bunch of crafts but he didn't really get to see past the two the two but there was other ones he says i couldn't tell so we had to create have creative liberties and put anything further away so when our vr experience comes out the fifth hangar has the mcminnville ufo in there so so right now currently it's in the movie you just can't see it you can't see it but it's there but it's there it's there yeah just for fun because we thought if we have to create our own designs why not use some that people saw so we even have the one from falcon lake in there yeah yeah we have one from falcon lake we have the mcminnville and we have another one i can't remember which one it was but there's three known ufos that are further out there i say this to you all the time to me it's like the best outcome i could have seen in my lifetime at this age where i'm still you know knock on wood healthy enough to go around hang out with friends talk about it and it's it's no longer taboo at least in many new circles and it's like there's there's people interested people asking questions curiosity is growing but in a positive way the questions are not to trap people but inquisitive questions to inform people which is a completely different thing you used to get a lot of i want to catch your lie questions now it's i want to know questions which is so different the 80s and the 90s and i'm not sure if i'm going to be able to do that but i'm going to get a lot of i want to know questions which is so different the 80s and the 90s and i'm not sure if i'm going to be able to do that but i'm going to get a lot of i want to know questions which is so different the 80s and the 90s and i'm going to get a lot of i want to know questions which is so different the 80s and the 90s and i'm going craft video which was featured at the beginning of one of the episodes that i made about triangular crafts i'll leave his instagram below where you can follow his page he sailed across the atlantic in a pirate ship and captured some really amazing sites in seattle we welcomed forensic anthropologist dr michael masters i sort of saw a lot of skepticism um some dismissal and a ton of ambivalence for a long time people just kind of like see what you're doing over there don't want any part of it just going to ignore it um i kind of challenged that in my institution specifically because i taught a 300 level ufo class like not how psychologists or society sees ufos but this is real came in day one we're going to talk about this posters all over campus it's on the books and um kind of forced a lot of people in the administration of my academic colleagues to be at a point where they can't ignore it anymore and the class went super well um Um, my administrative assistant said I had the highest student evaluation score she's ever seen. Um, the students loved it. Word across campus spread. I've been asked if I'm teaching that class again, probably 50 or 60 times since. Um, and yeah, like the administration's been supportive, uh, went on Rogan in December and that kind of made its way through the vice chancellor, chancellor Dean. And, uh, despite talking about a ton of weird shit with them, they kind of accepted with, um, some level of skepticism, the reality of the phenomenon and what we were talking about. And I think to answer your question, it's really been legitimized a lot over the last five to six years, especially since 2019 with the New York Times article. People testifying in front of Congress under oath obviously had a lot to do with it. And then things like this, things like what you're doing, going out, being public with this in digital form, in person, just really normalizing the topic. I think that's the biggest part of this. Are you going to pursue this more on an academic side? Are you looking to do more personal study into this topic? Or are you like, hey, I've laid my cards out. You guys make of it what you will. A little bit of each of those. After a year and a half, I just finished the audiobook version of my novel, which was kind of the third piece in this puzzle for me. There's like a hard science book that's been called Dense by a lot of people. One that brings the science in, but it's more stories, it's more readable. And then this novel is just kind of like a book that I've been reading for a long time. Kind of a fucked up journey through time, but appeals to a different audience. Also bringing that science in in different ways. So there's that side. I'm also collaborating with a number of academic colleagues at Harvard, Ohio State. Rizwan Virk is one of our co-authors on a paper that we just started writing two weeks ago. We just had a meeting over Zoom. So I'm still doing a lot of research. Fun with science fiction and really trying to get this question and discussions about it out in academic journals, peer-reviewed journals, and really bring this conversation to the scientific masses. You spent a lot of years teaching. Has there ever been an overlap for you in an academic sense with a student or a peer where you've engaged with sort of talking about the phenomenon? I don't know if that's true for you at peace or aliens specifically, but definitely, you know, I've gone into mind stuff. My memory, of course, always peeks its head in because I'm teaching them. So I use my techniques and eventually some student looks me up and it's like, oh, you watch your YouTube videos. It was amazing. I learned how to memorize this. And so then I sometimes at the end of the semester or when appropriate, I'll do a lesson on memory. And a couple of semesters, I even did some remote viewing when we had extra time. I didn't explain what I was doing, but I did some little classroom tests where I brought in a box. I had an item in a box that I chose at random from my home. And I was just like, all right, guys, everybody, piece of paper. We're going to try a little mental exercise. Has nothing to do with class right now, but, you know, it's a fun little reprieve from our studies. And I just see who would get the closest or if anything would come up. And of course that led into like, Nelson, and I was like, I don't know what you're doing this. And I'd have to explain kind of this whole thing. So we sometimes would spend a lecture just talking about that part of the phenomenon. Remote viewing and sigh studies. Yeah. Did you ever, how was the interest level there? Because I feel like hearing Dr. Masters talk about it, like the stigma doesn't exist with them as much as it exists with us or our generation. Right. Yeah. I'm very, I was very hesitant to do that in my classes, but then I did it twice. And both times, different semesters, both classes were really engaged, had tons of questions, even more engaged than some of my other like actual lectures for the class. And I've had a few people come up to me and be like, tell me their stories and that they had some weird, you know, coincidences or synchronicities or, you know, premonitions and things like that. I never got into UFO type stuff, but, um, they were definitely open to it more than I would have imagined, um, the topic, you know. Do you see a future where there are classes like the ones that Michael taught or perhaps like a remote viewing, you know, lecture done in an academic sort of prestigious, you know, institution? Is that something that you see happening? Yeah, I think so. And then I was talking to Michael about it last night. And I was like, I said, I was a professor and I even have tried to create a course, a memory course, just a memory fundamentals course, which would be immensely helpful for any student. Um, and you can kind of find, uh, survey classes about memory and sometimes delves into memory techniques, like in psychology courses, they usually have a course where they talk about memory methods, but it's not like a practical tool building class. But anyway, so I I'm a bit familiar with trying to create a course that's really helpful for any student. And I think create a class and, you know, bring it to the people who need to approve it. And he was saying like, yeah, when I came up with the idea and brought it to the Dean, I mean, he's the chair, so he kind of already has a bit of a, an advantage. At this, in this age, I can't really say no, you know, it's all about being inclusive and open. So that kind of, I think has it going for it. So I could see more of that coming to light. I mean, I would love to, I don't know if I would say, hey, we're going to do a remote viewing class, but definitely something, even if I worded my memory workshop course, whatever, as a little more mind cognitive training, I could slip that in there. And right before hitting the stage, I decided to perform some magic and comedy. All right, Tom, have you ever seen magic this close before? You haven't. Have you ever seen magic? I don't think so. Okay, good. All right. That's a good thing. Sounds weird, but was this in your, was your browser history recently? Was that? Who are you here with? Your friend, Chris. Maybe it's, maybe it's Chris. Maybe Chris's browser history. Yeah. I think, I think I know what this is. Z. There's an E. There's a B, an R, an A. I think I'll, I think we all know what this is. On the count of three, I want everybody to say one, two, three. All right. Not the word I was picking up. It was a different word. All the, like a half the audience in stitches. He's like, yeah, it's, I'll tell you on the ride home. But all of this was just to set up a very special surprise. I do want to try one more thing here, but I, I need a couple. Any couples in the house? This guy up here, we'll go up in the second. Yeah. You with the hand up. Yes. You. Yes. Give it up for this couple. Come on. Megan, nice to meet you. Megan, step right this way and thank you for joining me. And you are? Troy. Troy, nice to meet you too, Troy. Hey, Troy, stand right here. Megan, do you mind? I have a blindfold here for you. Okay. Can you see anything, Megan? No. Megan, Megan, will you be my forever partner? The one of my darkest hours and my brightest moments. Will you be my human until my body falls away? You are the closest person I've ever known. Once I saw those beautiful giant eyes, I knew our lives would be intertwined. Will you marry me? What propels you? Right now, get a free DeWalt 20-volt max battery two-pack when you buy a select DeWalt 20-volt max tool. Valid through 9-13. While supplies last, selection varies by location. Of course. Congratulations. Congratulations. Ladies and gentlemen, give it up for this beautiful couple. Come on. Come on. So amazing. Right this way, guys. Oh, you just made my night. Thank you. Enjoy the show. My goodness I feel like I was just as nervous Totally different show she said no the vibe would have just Now I don't mean to get sappy but it isn't lost on me how truly lucky I am and I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful for this wonderful community for the friendships. I've forged and the knowledge I've acquired The places I get to visit and the stories I get to hear Seeing people outside of chat groups and online feeds makes you really remember how much fun this human experience can be and one more thing Will there ever be another desert blast? Yes, really there will absolutely be another desert blast. Do you think because that's probably You know, it's one of the most badass things I've ever seen in my life. It's a it's a great time I actually Luigi's been pushing me to It didn't make that happen. So but yeah, I there's absolutely gonna be another desert blast and it's gonna be awesome Out of control. Yeah If you poured gasoline on Burning Man, it's like yeah, yeah is yeah, we're going through some photos, you know Just the other day and and seeing some of the explosions that you guys had never like that Do you think like doing a desert blast today would be possible like you did it back then? Oh, yeah I've already got it late the plans laid out. There's yeah, it's a for-sure thing. Can I get a ticket? Yeah. Yeah, you're going. Yeah All right, I'll take up any more of your time. I'll keep there. Thanks, Bob. 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