206. UC Berkeley - Jua Howard - Assistant Director of Admissions

[MUSIC] Welcome to the College Admissions Process Podcast presented by Prep Expert. Prep Expert offers live online SAT and ACT courses with the best score guarantees, instructors and curriculum. Go to prepexpert.com to guarantee your child success. [MUSIC] Welcome to the cap to College Admissions Process Podcast. I am your host, John DeRonte, and it gives me great pleasure to introduce you today. Jua Howard, who's the Assistant Director of Admissions at UC Berkeley of course in California. Jua was with us on Episode 154 where we did a panel discussion with multiple representatives from the UC system. And Jua, it's such an honor and a pleasure to have you here today. How you doing? I'm doing well, John, and thank you for having me back. I enjoyed the first conversation with my colleagues. We always have a good time, so I was excited to speak with you again and talk about UC Berkeley. So I'm excited to be here. Well, we're excited to have you, and I'm really happy to have you on the podcast, especially because every time I see you at a college fair, there's probably 25 people waiting to speak to you. So I can't even say hello except for some crazy guy in the background just waving to you. But here we are finally sitting down and we're going to have a great conversation about UC Berkeley. And I am excited as I know so many people want to hear about it. So let's stop by asking you to just give us a brief description about yourself, Jua. How long have you been in admissions and how did you end up in such a position? Sure. So I have been in admissions for almost 20 years now, which seems kind of for me personally crazy to say, because I remember starting. So and I started my journey in higher ed, actually at Howard University. And coming in, I was thinking still about law school at the time. I think like a lot of us higher ed, that's at least in admissions. That's not necessarily the goal. You kind of fall into it and it's a really good fit. And that was really my journey. Went to platform job at Howard, boardboard evaluation, administrative, and thankfully the director saw something a little bit more in me and say, hey, I think really, you know, outreach would be a really good fit. So I was like, hey, I'll try it. I could travel, not on my diet. Sounds good to me. And I will still, you know, a couple of years, you know, are so out of college. So it was a really good fit for me. And so after working with Howard for several years, I also had a short stint with the Gates Millennium Scholars Program as a program manager, which I loved. Because it was a different experience for admissions to work in a higher ed. And at that time, Gates had the most UC Berkeley actually had the most Gates scholars. So that kind of already knew about Berkeley, but that kind of data really helped me in understanding, I think the sense of equity and the caliber of the students. And then eventually, I made my way to UC Berkeley. And I've been with Berkeley now for about 14 years. So I've been around for quite some time. Well, that's fantastic. And listen, you have such an awesome personality. We've spoken a few times. I did actually see you and got the chat with you down at NACAC when we were together in Baltimore. So again, it's so great to have you. Thank you. Now, Juah, I recently read the retention rate. At UC Berkeley, 96%, which is one of the highest of all colleges and universities. You know, the national average of is about 70%. So can you provide what else in terms of an overview that makes UC Berkeley unique within the University of California system? And you know, talk to me about your academic programs, campus culture, and anything else you wish to share. Yeah, yeah, we do. I think our retention rate, we're very proud of. We typically kind of waver between like 96% and 98%. So I think we're very proud of that fact. I think people, I think when students come to Berkeley, they genuinely love it. And that really, to your point really speaks to the culture. I think one of the things that we've done and with that we do, I think in helping, before I even jump into the academic programs, one thing that we really try to do is truly try to make sure that we are a place of longing and that people and that students feel that we are safe space. And so one of the things that we do is we call our Golden Bear Experience, which is our orientation program. So to me, I feel like that really plays a really big part with our newly admitted students. It's a four-part process and literally starts like end of May early June before they come to campus and it goes into their first semester like a month and a half. And it covers everything from helping them register for their classes, learn how to navigate the campus, identify resources. Of course, once they get to campus, you know, and really start a network, meet people, we have what we call our Cala Paloza, which is a really big kind of fair or festival with different student organizations meeting the new students. And then we go further into how, you know, navigating the campus, riding bark or subways, so we talk about a lot of different things. And so I really like that because we kind of morphed into that format, John, a few years ago. We used to have them like a weekend orientation program. And now really extending it out to those really months, long orientation program, I think has had a great deal and really trying to help students feel at home really quickly. So that's one piece of it. But other things I think that make Berkeley really special, I think that really goes a long way, especially with the UC system. We are the flagship campus. And so I think that's a really major distinction that we started. The UC legacy of the always say, all nine of us are great, you know, and so we're always very proud when we started it. And kind of set the tone in a lot of way, depending on, you know, I think policies and culture, what people think of with the UC system. So that plays a part with students. I also think the location is key. I mean, in Northern California, 25 minutes outside of San Francisco is a huge part, you know. Berkeley is always say it's kind of an up-temple college town. It's not in the thick of the city. But it's got a little kick to it, as I always say. Very eclectic in cafes and theaters, a lot of music, a lot of small businesses, things of that nature. So you have that culture plenty of place for students to study. And I feel like that's been reflected on to the campus. But then kind of going beyond that, again, you are 25 minutes outside of San Francisco. Before you get to San Fran, I'll actually reach downtown Oakland, which is clearly another metropolitan quality city that students can take advantage of. But you're also 50 minutes of Silicon Valley San Jose region. Push it out further, get out in 40 minutes or so to stay capital in Sacramento, weekend trips, Lake Tahoe region, Napa Valley. So what I always stress with students is that they have a lot of their fingertips, whatever they're trying to do, whether be for academic purposes and research, job placement, you know, we have a huge, clearly Berkeley presence in our alumni in the Bay Area. But also just entertainment, because I believe in balance, you know, if they're creative and they want to be in a band or they are a dancer or, you know, they're a fluey, you know, you have to live everything in the Bay Area. So I feel like that culture of the Bay Area then is reflected on our campus. That really plays a big part, John. I think in students really coming there and feeling a part of it and saying, no, this is really where I want to be. This is exciting. There's a lot that I can do, whether I'm on campus or even off campus. So those kinds of things really play a big part of I think that retention. And then, and then I will say, you know, and we'll talk about it a little bit further, but we also very intentional about a lot of support programs that we have on campus with our different community are kind of everything from our, you know, Centers for Education, Excellence in Equity, which is our educational opportunity program for our first generation college students, our transfer center, which I know we'll talk about that, our undocumented students program, our gender equity and resource center. So, and I'm just naming a few examples, but that is a key part of that retention because we have a lot of ways and things that we're doing to really help support students as an individual, not just the academically part, like really looking at them as a person and doing, saying, how do we show up for you and make sure that you can thrive on our campus? And that starts from day one, not two or three years later. And so that's also another part I think of that retention. Well, I appreciate you talking about the balance between everything that you offer academically and socially, which I too think is so important. You emphasize the fact that you're located in Northern California, 25 minutes from the great city of San Francisco. UC Berkeley, of course, is the flagship campus. And I also appreciate how you talked about the orientation program. It's not just the weekend program, but it's something that's ongoing, which of course, it tributes to the fact that your retention rate, as you put it, is somewhere between 96 and 98 percent, which again, is a testament to the great work that you do in admissions in terms of getting the right students on your campus. But also the great work that UC Berkeley does to make sure that the students are welcomed, they're oriented to your campus, and they want to stay year after year after year. Now, I want to talk a little bit if it's okay about the application review process. And I want to emphasize one of the things, the A through G, academic course requirements, which is something that for us East Coasters, we're not that familiar with. So, what else would you say are the key components of UC Berkeley's application review process, including what you look for when building your incoming freshman class? Definitely. And I'll kind of throw this as a, I'll answer this, but kind of throw back to something I didn't talk about in the previous question, which is important because it's tied into the academic process. One of the things that we look from an academic standpoint, reviewing applications is we are holistic. We look at everything. But a part of that holistic review is also thinking about the programs the students are applying to. And so kind of going back to that retention and why students hopefully tend to love Berkland, why they even decide to apply. I think it Berkeley, one of the other key things is the diversity of programs. We offer a little of everything. We have all over a hundred different majors and minors split between six colleges in one school. And so students really can tap into a lot of different things. So some things that are distinct to Berkeley, we do really well with very innovative programs. So we have some really great dual degree programs that are highly popular. So one of our arguably our most popular one is one called the MET program, which stands for management, entrepreneurship and technology. And it's a dual degree program between the School of Business, HOS, and our College of Engineering. And it's several different tracks based on the area of interest in engineering, whether it's civil, or whether it's mechanical, and so on. That's a major one. A lot of students apply to that. Berkeley is considered one of the best schools in the world when it comes to entrepreneurship. So that is really kind of one of those kind of pillars. I think of preparation for the entrepreneurship program at Berkeley. But we also have other dual degree programs like our Robinson Life Science Business, entrepreneurship program, where you're earning a business degree, but also degree in molecular and cellular biology. And then for your student to a more kind of global in scope, we also have an this is separate from the study abroad. We have programs with C. Enzpo in France where you can earn degrees from both of us and also a program with University of Hong Kong. So just to give you an idea of some of the really distinct programs at Berkeley, but that plays a part of also the review process. John, so thinking about some of these programs, holistically, we're looking at everything. And so that's everything from your academic preparedness. So your, you know, some students say, "Well, if I have this GPA, am I going to be admitted?" I'm like, it's not that simple. So we're looking at starting with your actual curriculum. You know, are you taking the most rigorous courses all for that your particular high school? So context is key, and that's in any holistic process. Context is the basis. What's available to you and are you maximizing what's available? So are you taking the most challenging courses at your high school? Clearly, what are your grades? You know, but also I tell you it's, you know, if maybe you start a little rocky at the beginning, but your grades have improved during high school, that's a plus. You know, we give you there's some there's some flexibility there a little bit, but also, you know, so those grade trends, but also getting outside of that. And I know we'll talk about testing, but I'll throw something out of you. I'm AP test or I be exams for if that's a part of your curriculum, something that you've done. What are you involved in? You know, leadership, all these various different things, all of these different things play a part of our holistic review. And then those specialty programs, I tell students is also those are distinct that I talk about because they require additional things. So for instance, the general process, let us erect, we only we only will request from a very small percentage of Berkeley and where the only UC campus that actually we even look at letters are at, but we have to request them from students. But if a student applies to a program, let's say like the Ceeants poll dual degree program, they are mandatory. And so that's really the really important part when I talk to students about our admissions process holistic and all of that, but also doing the research ahead of time so that you if you know your plan to very specialized program that you are educated about what additional things of that program need for you from you so that you can be most competitive. I'm seeing students who are not taking all the steps, which then makes them less competitive in our process. And that's never the goal. So holistically, those are the things we're thinking about. And that other piece that A to G academic course requirements that goes back to the academic part, it's very similar to really most states where they have some kind of graduation requirements kind of structure for students who graduate to make sure that they have a foundation academically from their particular high school, whether that's for the district state and so on. A through G academic course requirements for the UC system. And we talked about a little earlier, John, you talked about it for New York, you know, same thing for us, you know, like four years of English, three years of math, two years of a lab science, two years of foreign language, a year of a visual and performing art and so on. So that's really important because for us, we probably, I would say we are a little more strict on in-state students when it comes to the A through G because it is a California system. You can meet those requirements. Out of state, yes, we do look at that. We want to see that you are academically prepared to go to any UC campus. However, we give some grace when it comes to that from out of state kids because your school, your district, your state may have different requirements and we don't want that to negatively impact how we're reviewing you. So that's where the context comes and I'm going to be more focused on are you maximizing again what's available to you. But the A through G that is something that we consider not to tell kids typically when you read about it. Look at it as a guide or as a reference to see that you are best prepared academically to come to one of our schools. Well, that's terrific. And if we want to link anything related to the A through G components or anything else just provide it to me and we'll put it in the show notes. I love the overview of your holistic review process. You mentioned over 100 majors and minors, six colleges study abroad options. You do a degree program and I love how you talked about the MET program that's management, entrepreneurship and technology which is really an example of cross cutting, right? Exactly. And these are skills for the future, right? Because it's not just I want to major in business. I want to be a CEO and entrepreneur, but to have that technology component that really prepares students for the future that we try to imagine. But at this point, we don't even know, right? But growing that MET program together is definitely again preparing students for their future that they don't even know at this point. You got it. And I'll say one of the things that you mentioned just about the distinct thing about Berkeley, one of the key things about us as well is that we send the most graduates into Silicon Valley or any other university. And so that's a major part as well, John. I think of those kind of distinctness, but while programs like MET plays a really big part to what you just said because you're getting that technical background with the business background. And that really helps in the internships and then we have a lot of kids and you know, this even for high school kids, allow them have mixed interest and a lot of them have their own businesses now. And so it's really allowing them to explore different parts of their interest versus staying. You just have to do this one thing. And for me, talking to students, they really now trim why, but think over the last several years, more students really appreciate that. So. Well, that's awesome. And a real example of tremendous innovation. So we appreciate the overview again. And of course, the college application process, Joe, we know it could be overwhelming and very stressful for students and their families. What some common mistakes applicants make during the application process. And how could they be avoided? Definitely great question. We're speaking just in general, correct? As far as the preparation and or yeah, in general, you know, like, in other words, you're on the other side, right? We're trying to take the current back a little bit. You receive an application. Is there a mistake? Is there something that students do that is a problem that they should avoid? Got you. Okay. Just wanted to see how broad I should be my response. I'll start with one that I'll say, this is broader than just UC Berkeley and they're the system. A lot of students are applying to a lot of schools. And I did a program. I talked recently to a colleague and they were talking about, you know, one of their students applying to like 30, maybe almost 40 schools. And I was kind of, I was just floored, you know, but I'm hearing that more often. I'm not understanding why are you applying this many schools like that's it. I mean, you have really done the work to really whittle it down to some to a really workable list of schools that you will literally go to any of those schools if admitted and to me that's the goal. So I would say start with just doing the research ahead of time to really, really work with your college counselor, your, you know, CBO, community partners, your parents, whomever else that is a part of your kind of village, as students to really, really figure out which schools make the most sense for you. And to me, that does start work with your college counselor because that's their role. We really be able to work with them to kind of get a, to create a feasible, um, practical list of your course, your reach schools and, you know, and so on. So that's a big one because I think that's not a good route to go. But one of the key things I'll say, especially in the midst of reading now, mistakes that I'm seeing students do is first and foremost, they're not giving us a lot of information regarding their activities. So, you know, we talked about our school reading holistically and a lot of schools read holistically, the other UC campuses, hundreds of schools across the United States now are holistic in their review process. Um, and really, you know, that's context. The more information you give me, the more I have to work with. So I have students who are maybe listing they've been in an organization for, you know, they really don't tell me how many years they don't tell me how many, how many hours per week they're, they're investing in this organization. They don't tell me if they're a leader in it, you know, if they've been president or vice president, maybe they found it, they don't tell me that. And then they also, they may usually a lot of times give us acronyms and I try to tell students, please spell it out. Well, you don't know if we know what this organization is. Especially for my, you know, if it's something regional and I have a reader who's, you know, a room reading or so, whomever else is from California, they may not be as familiar with that. So don't assume that they know that. So spell it out. But also give me some information about what are you actually doing? Some students have given me a brief synopsis of maybe what the organization is, but they don't tell me what they're actually doing. What is your role? What have you contributed? Maybe you have helped the membership draws. Maybe you have helped take organization to a state competition or, you know, maybe you've laid a research team. Any of these kinds of things, that's the information that we want to know because that's the information that really helps me learn who you are as a person and how you're going to contribute to our community. So really giving us that additional information about, again, your role, your contributions, the actionable measures, what have you done? So that's a big one that I'm seeing students not do. In addition to that, I'm seeing a lot of students talk about the same vein. I guess what their aspirations are if they come to UC Berkeley, but they're not telling me about what they're doing right now. And I want to know what you're doing right now so that I understand, again, things that you're already executing to really how you're already showing up in your community. That's what I want to know. It's great to know what your aspirations are, but you need to link them to. It can't be all aspirations and you're not doing anything right now. So that's a really big one that we need students to really talk about. Again, what are you currently doing? And then you can tie that to aspirations to say, hey, this is because I'm doing this, this is what I plan to do when I come to your campus because I'm already doing x, y and z. That plays a really big part. Also a really big one for me. Again, I'm going to go back to that work context, which I use quite a bit. I mean, students, you know, maybe have a bad grade pop up here and there. I may see that C or D or I may it may be students and all a student, but maybe junior year, I'm seeing pretty much mostly bees. I'm seeing students not explain to us what's going on. I need to know what's happening. That is you are working against yourself if you don't provide us that information because we're looking when I see anything like that, that kind of the red flag or kind of catches my attention. I'm automatically looking for an explanation from the student to say, hey, this is what's going on with me, whether it be health issues, maybe it's troubles at home, maybe it's something at the school of that student who maybe had a teacher leave, midst the master or you know, whatever that may be to tell us that because you all, we cannot assume if I have to assume it's not going to benefit you. So you got to flat out tell me. So that's a really not the one that students need to do that. And this is for a lot of the processing. We have additional common box from different applications. We want you to tell us what's going on so that we can better understand the situation. That is where you have to advocate for yourself. So that's another thing that I'm seeing students do this path, Michael, of not showing up in that way through the application. So those are some things off the top of my head that I would say where students are kind of missing the mark at the moment. Hey podcast friends. If you've been enjoying the college admissions process podcast, I'm excited to share my new book straight from the admissions office inside of strategies for college applications. It's packed with insights and tips from over 250 podcast episodes with admissions professionals designed to make the college process less overwhelming, whether you're a student, parent or college counselor, it's a valuable resource for navigating the admissions process. By grabbing a copy, you're also helping to support the podcast. The links are in the show notes. Thank you and best wishes to all with the college admissions process. Well I think those are great examples and correctly if I'm wrong, Joe, but you're basically looking at two main things. You're looking at the academic portion. In other words, can you handle the work students at UC Berkeley? But the other piece that sometimes students and their families forget is you're looking to build upon your amazing community. So you want to know the type of student that they are going to be in class, the type of roommate that they're going to be, how they're going to contribute. You're able to decipher that based on what they're doing now. But to your point, when speaking about current clubs, if they just list it, and by the way, don't just list the acronym, I'm actually spell it out because there's so many acronyms out there. But if they just list the club and they don't talk about what they do, what they intend to do, what they're founding, a member of it, do they have a leadership role. If you don't list this student, then you're leaving it up to the admissions representatives to speculate. Same thing with academics. If there is a dip, explain it. If not, again, people like Joe in the admissions office, they're going to just speculate as to why. So it's very important to be mindful students that the overall application is a marketing package. Each piece has to be comprehensive, has to build upon the last. If not, it's a missed opportunity. Am I right, Joe? You are spot on. And I think that was beautifully said. I like that term missed opportunity. We use that quite a bit. When it comes to essays, when it comes to information I provide it, it is a missed opportunity. And what I always try to stress as soon as that, even with the Berk, like the UC Berkley that is highly selective, we're looking for reasons to say yes. We're not looking for reasons to say no. We want you on our campus. So that is how we're reviewing. It's not the other way around. So give us that information. That is why I say when you have to advocate, you have to advocate, you have to brag about yourself as well. So that is when you're not telling us what you're doing in these organizations, when you're doing phenomenal things, I want to know about that. If you started a business, like we talked a moment ago about entrepreneurship at Berkley being a really big thing, if you started a business, I want to know what's going on. Why? What was the idea behind it? What was the concept? Why? How does it impact those in your community? Maybe global community because a lot of kids are doing great work that are affecting the world in a positive way. Those are the things that help me understand who I'm dealing with. And again, if you come to our campus, what you are going to contribute, which is always what I'm thinking about. Berkley is a school where we have, we always talk about, we have over 1200 student groups in the organization. There's a lot to do. So I do want to know how are you going to then be a part of that and maybe hopefully add to that, maybe something new or take one of the existing organizations to a whole other level. So you're exactly right, John. It's both of those components that they have to come together again with that whole list of review. It's not just one or the other. And I really like the way that you phrase that because a lot of students feel like it's one or the other or one is necessarily stronger than the other. It may, it may counterbalance like if I'm really involved, but I have four grades. No. Because then if we admit you, you may not be prepared to handle because you're going to have a lot more at your fingertips. You may not be able to prepare to come to our campus at that time. It's not about ability, maybe about time. And so that's so you are exactly right. And again, how you kind of sum that up. And I like earlier that you said, students, we are looking to say yes. We are admissions counselors, not rejection counselors. So make sure, again, when you're filling out that overall application that each part is comprehensive and includes everything that you can to create that picture where the admissions representative again, doesn't have to speculate and seize how you're going to contribute to their community. And of course, that you're able to handle the work once you're on their campus. So I know that students who apply to the UC schools, UC Berkeley obviously included, the self-report, their academic record. So, Joe, could you just explain that? And at what point, if at any point does the transcript come into play just to verify that the grades that are reported are indeed accurate? Sure. Yeah, that's a great question. I think a lot of my students are confused about this part. And again, I'll go back to my earlier point. This is why you all do your research ahead of time to understand these distinctions about different applications and application processes depending on the school. So you're right. UC Berkeley again utilizes the University of California application. That is shared by all nine UC campuses. And so it is completely self-reported information. So students do not have this in this transcripts up front. You don't have to send us test score reports, anything. Everything that we review, I am going to extract it from your application. So I always say insane that first and foremost, it's really important that you have documents in front of you. So your transcript, even though you're not sending it to us, you should have it in front of you so that you're accurate, you are detailed. If you have a resume, whatever that you need, that you're going to have to pull that information to put into the UC application should be right in front of you to make sure again that you are accurate. You do not want to have any issues on the back end of the process of things not matching up. That's where we may have an issue. And again, that's not the goal. So for us, you're going to fill out the information. All of your information, academic, your, you know, your extracurricular activities, all of that. So for the self-report section, that is a really big one academically where I see a lot of students sometimes get it wrong to your question a moment ago, where they really need to take the time and how they're filling out that section. So, you know, the high school, the particular high school, the actual curriculum, something that students sometimes don't know about the UC application today, you can select more than one grading system and also more than one grading tarp. So let's say, for instance, during the pandemic, that's a really big example. You know, students would have maybe a letter grades, maybe eight through F, but also they maybe took some courses past. failed because of the pandemic in the school. You could actually list both of those on the UC application, however you have to set it up, so that it captures that. So when it actually about rating systems, you can select A through F, but there's also an option for other. You can select other and then type in what that is, pass fail, pass, no pass. That way, when you get to the next kind of tab in the application, it'll have both of those options. And then also turn. So if you are a student who may be taken a course for one full year, you can put like one whole year or a year term, but also maybe you've taken classes that are just as semester. You can select one year, full year, and also semester terms. So that's really big when sometimes you're very confusing in our process, just to kind of as a logistical standpoint, with students where they get it wrong. But from there, you're going to take that, you're going to fill out the information, your courses. One big thing that I tell students, especially from out-of-state kids, is really important that to know that we are calculating to come up with your GPA for our purposes. And the way that we do that, typically, is we are working with your grades from 10th and 11th grade. Freshman year, we do not factor that as soon as the transition will be here. So 10th and 11 is what we're working with. We're also looking at grades that are part of that to your earlier questions on about the 8th or G. Requirements or 8th or G academic course requirements. We're actually pulling grades from courses that are part of that 8th or G. And then another really, really big important part of this is the rigor of your curriculum. So it's really important that students are designating courses that are AP, advanced placement, your IB, your international back of the Lord, your honors level courses, and also your college level courses, because those are the kinds of classes that we wait in our calculation process. And what students tend to do, John, is that they will not select it. And then their calculation won't count. For us, our calculation won't pick up. Those more advanced level courses in that weighted GPA. That's really important. You do not want to miss that because you're not giving yourself credit for the work that you're putting in. So whether it's AP, IB, you have that designation. Out of state students, honors level, you can select honors level, which is HL. That used to be very confusing to students. If it's honors level at your school, put it like this. Anything that's on a more advanced level at your high school, that's not AP or IB, you can select honors level. Whether it's whether it's titled honors level, maybe it's advanced, maybe it's accelerated, maybe it's gifted. Those can all be selected as honors level. And so that's something that always just especially from our out-of-state kids to understand that because again, you want to make sure that you're capturing the rigor of your curriculum in our calculation and something that we're going to view holistically. So that's a part of that self-report section, that really important. Also, the self-report section should match exactly what's on your transcript. Right. Exactly. The course titles, everything, the grades, don't worry about the plus and the minus. We don't factor into our calculation. But if it's on your transcript, you can put the plus minus. Do not stress that. Bottom line, make sure it matches what's on your transcript. That'll make it very easy and help you filling out the self-report section. And for those kids who are maybe dual enrollment, who have some college courses, they can also fill out out as well as the section right after the high school section on the UC application. And they'll go through the same process. Well, I appreciate that answer and students and parents. Please play it back again and again and again, because Jewish gave us a lot of pearls here, especially when you're listening to types of course, whether it's honors, AP, IB, would have you. That's very, very important. But also with the grading system. Was it A through F? Was it PASS or FAL? Whatever it is, make sure that you indicate it and of course match it with what's on your transcript. I also appreciate how you talked about the fact that you recalculate the GPA. But you look only at grades 10 and 11. So you're not looking at ninth grade. I would imagine because you feel that ninth grade is, in fact, the transitional year from middle school to high school. So you're looking at 10th and 11th grade. But also you're only looking at the courses that fall within your A through G, academic course requirements, which are basically the major subjects. So that was an amazing answer. We really appreciate it. And again, students, play it back if you're applying, because there's a lot of pearls that you just gave. Would you want to add something else? Let me say this as well, John. This is really important because I tried to, I think this fall, I had to say this quite often, the distinction between what we're looking at for the calculation. But what are we looking at holistically when we're looking at your academic section? Just because the ninth grade is not factored into the calculation does not mean we are not looking at your freshman year grades because I am. And a lot of students felt like we weren't. And I'm like, no, no, no, two different things. The calculation is one thing, but holistically I'm looking at everything. What did you take? What did you earn? The rigor of ninth grade, nine through 12th, all of that counts. And then 12th grade, even though we don't have grades, we are still looking at the rigor of your courses because we're expecting you to continue a level of excellence. So 12th grade needs to be strong. You have to finish strong. So please know that we're still looking at 12th grade. We were looking at, again, holistically the academic section. So I always want to make that distinction between the two because students feel like it's, you know, sometimes that can be a little confusing. So I just want to make it to kind of clarify that part. Well, I'm glad you did in the bottom line students, you have to keep building ramps, keep challenging yourself. As you said earlier, you know, based on what's available in your high school, did you challenge yourself? Did you take what was available to you? Was there some rigor? These are the things that certainly schools like UC Berkeley are going to look at. And so again, even though ninth grade doesn't go into the GPA calculation, they're going to see it. Even though 12th grade doesn't go into the GPA calculation because your grades are not available yet, they're certainly going to look to see. If you continued with the rigor. So really, thank you for that, Joe. We appreciate it. And of course, I know that personal insight questions, the PICUs are using the UC system. Can you explain what they are? How to approach the PICUs and perhaps share an example that's stuck with you? Sure. So the PICUs are what we call our technically of the personal insight questions. And so I will say even though I talked about you all not using acronyms on your application, I will say we use a lot of acronyms on our campus. So just FYI, so even though if you're not sure, I will say when you're talking to us, you're not sure about anything about a acronym, just ask us. Sometimes we will get into that habit as well. So again, they are personal insight questions. And they are short answer questions. So for our process, when I first started Berkeley years ago, we did have the longer essay style. And we shifted several years ago to the PICUs. To be a little bit more intentional about what we're asking of students so that we can extract the information that we really want to get to for the students. For the PICUs, there are eight questions. And students have to answer four out of the eight. And each question has the maximum of 350 words. So that's what you're working with per response. So again, short answer, gotta get to the point. What I like is that students have variety. So always so soon to really read to all eight of them to really think about what they're asking you to really figure out which four are going to be the best fit for you. This is not about your friend, this is not about your parent, this is about your story. Just because your best friend answered a particular four, that is mean those are four that you should answer. So I'll really tell students, I like that they have variety. You know, pick the four that make the most sense to you. But also because they are short answer, get to the point. And then you can get to the point. what they've done. Excellent. again, they were very detailed about it. They gave me the why and again, they show me the impact. And so that really stuck out to me from a lot of different things. But again, and also they were, it was humorous and I love to laugh. So I always still get, you know, that's also being authentic. If you're a funny person, I like to laugh. If you're not really typically a really funny person, this is not the right thing to try. That's what we say a lot in admissions, you know, but that's again being authentic to your own voice. And you don't have to be funny. So that's the one that really stuck out to me this year. And I was like, that was one of those things that we say in our, a lot of times, the Berkeley, a student, have a Berkeley spark, this had a Berkeley spark, you know, just based on kind of, the sense of, of, of innovation, the sense of taking the initiative to really be a change agent. And that change agent kind of factors really big when at UC Berkeley. So yeah. Well, I appreciate that. First of all, you talked about the personal insight questions or the PICUs, you explained how to show to answer questions, 350 words max for each. There's a group of eight of them, students pick four out of the eight. But it really comes down to the point, whether it's one of these PICUs or a regular larger essay for some other school, when the admissions representative reads your essay, whether it's one of the PICUs or a larger essay, did they learn something to about you? That's the question you have to ask yourself. If they did, great. If not, again, missed opportunity. So, Jua talked about a student who mentioned something related to leadership. That person was able to articulate their why, their impact, what they did throughout the process. Perhaps there was something that went wrong. And the student talked about their reflection, their thought process, and how they pivoted, whatever it is, it's got to be insight into something new. If you just say that you're a member of the DECA Club, right, I'm listening one of many, many high school clubs. And that's it. And then you write, you know, an essay just talking about the fact that you love DECA and you want to major in business, again, you're not really learning anything new from the admission side of things. Am I right, Jua? You are spot on. I have not learned anything else, and I can go back to the other parts of your application. And my car, I already got it. That's the missed opportunity. Doesn't mean necessarily, you may not be admitted, but that's another opportunity for you to provide additional information about yourself. So you have to take full advantage of every opportunity that you have to expound on it. Something I tell students a lot of times, even with our PICUs, I've had students who do a really great job where they may answer two different PICUs in one in one response. So those are the ones who are very, very, you know, I would say very creative in their responses, where I'm like, they're tackling two or sometimes even three. My response has been one. I'm like, okay, this is the one. You know, this is because clearly they've done their work to really read through all of them, to understand, okay, I can really talk about various parts of who I am and answer more than, you know, I don't have to split it up. You know, I can really kind of go into detail in this particular one. So that's students, you know, those are students who really shine because it's very clearly they've done their work and taken the time to really understand the questions and how they relate to that, to them as an individual. So that's a really big one. I'll say this as well, and this is going back to our previous question about what students do that's kind of something to avoid. To your point, John, about this is our chance again of learning more about you students. A lot of times we'll talk about somebody else. That's not a goal. If you want to talk about someone who, you know, a loved one, I love those, I love those responses, but it needs to be like always say maybe 10% that person, 90% you, 15% at the max for that person, set it up, who they are, the dynamic of your relationship, but then you need to shift it back to your point. You said the word John reflection reflect on that relationship. What if you learned as a result of this of this relationship? Maybe they've inspired you and they maybe that inspired you to, you know, be a part of something or to create a business order organization or whatever. And that helps me learn then more about you, even though that person is really the impetus of that. And so always tell us there's really very careful about where you where you put the focus not on someone else. It's not about them to start all about. Well, that's great advice and a common theme throughout the podcast episodes is that, for example, a student might write about a grandparent and the reps say how much they adore the grandparent and they want to admit the grandparent, but they didn't learn anything new about the student. So it's something to think about student. And unless you could do what you said where you talk, you know, he put it 10% about, you know, a loved one, but 90% of it has to be about you unless you could do that. Perhaps stay away from a topic like that, which seems to be a pretty common theme amongst a lot of essays, whether they're a PIQ or a longer essay. And so if you're reading 40 essays or 40 PIQs a day, you know, it might be nice to, you know, get something that's a little different than the norm. Would you agree, Joa? I wholeheartedly agree. So my engineering students, I don't want to read about Legos every time. Talk about stuff to you else. Maybe you've a lot of students nowadays are doing research. So you know, some students are talking about research are doing, I like to hear about those, but Legos think about something else. I have a lot of people who are like master's chefs as I call them and I love food. So I love reading, but I get a lot of kids who talk about food, but they don't write it where I'm learning more about them beyond that, okay, I know they enjoy cooking, but it doesn't go anywhere else. So a lot of times those are missed opportunities. And then I'll throw this last one out, if I get this quite a bit as well for my creatives, which I absolutely love. You know, I tell a lot of them, if you're a gift-of-creative writer, that's wonderful, but you have to temper that. And I'll say it specifically for the PIQs because you don't have a lot of word you switch to work with. It is very limited. You know, a poem, "Journaly Mrs. DeMarc," a lot of students, you know, they they they're very create a very abstract. Typically they miss the mark. I tell kids, usually I'm confused. I don't know where you're going and going back to your point. I didn't learn anything else about you beyond that. Okay, your gifted writer, I get it, but I'm again, I'm trying to understand what kind of community member are you going to be. Be creative. There's nothing wrong with that, but it needs to be tempered. So that again, I am learning more about you through that response. That is where feedback is helpful. Talk to your counselor, someone else who understands this process. It's for them to be able to say, "No, you need to work on this a little bit more." I see where you're headed, but you need to temper it a little bit more and give some more, you know, specific detail, nuance, and then, you know, come up with a creative approach to it. Well, that's such great insight and great advice. We really appreciate that. So let's shift a little bit to the test-blind policy. Do you see system adopted at test-blind policy for admissions? Joe, could you explain what does this mean and how it affects the application process and applicant evaluation? Sure. So we call it test-free for the UC system. I was very, very UC. We always come up with a new terminology, but to your point, John, the more commonly used term is test-blind, but basically we do not consider the SAT or ACT in the admissions process. It is not a part of it at all. So on the application, the UC application, there's not even a space for students to self-report the SAT or ACT. That's not my, it's not error. We don't consider it. Please do not try to send us test-core reports. We don't review them. That's a waste of time and money. I have students who will still email me or even come up to me at events or even parents sometimes who think, you know, I'm playing or they'll say, well, what else are you all considering or even though you don't read it, okay, how can I give it to you? It's like, no, we don't consider it. It's not an option. Let's move on. And so for students, I think where they get confused is schools that are test-optional. That is not test-free or test-blind, test-optional. You know, clearly it is an option to still submit your test-scores. If you feel that they are strong and they will make you more competitive within that admissions process, then it's an option to still submit those test scores. Now, if you are a student who maybe your test scores are not really strong, but you are a stellar student in every other way, that you don't have to submit those test scores and you are still equally as competitive within that process. For those of us that like the UC system who are test-free, it is not an option. So that's the biggest thing. But what I'll try to stress the students is that it does not make us any less competitive. And it doesn't mean that we're looking at anything else more than we did when we did require tests. It's still holistic. It's still competitive. So I'm looking at everything else holistically. So I tell students, you know, I mean, clearly you're more than a test score that you did for a few hours in a test score. Clearly, you're much more than that. I've had to tell parents that. Your child is much more than a test score. I hope you know that. So, you know, we're talking about four years of continuous academic excellence of their grades and rigor and challenge and research and all the things that they're doing day to day. That's where the goal lies for us. So I'm looking at everything else. We just don't have that test. However, tests still play a part, potentially. Students still have the opportunity to submit a test scores or upfront, they're self-reporting their AP scores, IB scores as well. Also for my international students, they have maybe A levels. Things of that nature. That is still a part of our process. If students have that as a curriculum or part of their curriculum where they choose to take those exams, we will still consider those kinds of exams. This is your host, John. They're on thing. It gives me great pleasure to welcome Welcome back, Sean Patel, who's the founder and CEO of P.E.O. Prep Expert, Sean, welcome back. - Thanks, John. Thanks for having me, and I'm so excited to announce that Prep Expert is the official title sponsor of the College Admissions Process Podcast. This has been a partnership in the works for a while now, and I'm so glad we got it off the ground. We're so excited to work with families, parents, students of the College Admissions Process Podcast at Prep Expert to help them through our live online SAT and ACT courses. Not only improve their SAT and ACT scores, but help them get into college, as well as win hundreds of thousands of dollars in college scholarships. Thank you so much for the partnership, and we are so excited to work with your families. - Thank you, Sean, and to learn more about how Prep Expert can support your child's academic journey, visit prepexpert.com today, and best wishes to all. (upbeat music) - I appreciate that, and I was gonna say two things. Number one, I appreciate the test-free nature of the UC system, so that students don't have to worry about submitting SAT or ACT scores, but a follow-up was gonna be what about the IB and AP scores, where there are schools out there that they're test-optional, but they're happy to take those scores on the consideration. So I'm glad you mentioned that, Joe, I really appreciate it. And I was just curious, do you accept those scores also for credit? - We do, we're actually, I would say for, that I mean, I would say definitely for Berkeley and our kind of pure set of schools, we're pretty liberal. So typically we give credit for three, four, or five, while the AP exams can, or the IB exam, students have to take the higher level exam, first and foremost, and a five, six, or seven, they'll get some credit. So we're actually, we're actually pretty liberal giving out credits, and a lot of these students, they come in with a pretty good amount of credit for their work. And for again, highly selected schools, a lot of times that's not the case. They, they, it may help in placement, sometimes it doesn't help even with that. So yeah, but that is something we do quite well. So definitely. - I appreciate that. And I'm glad I asked the question. So of course, Joe, many students and their parents are concerned about the course of college, which continues to be on the rise. And it's a big consideration for so many students and their families. Can you explain UC Berkeley's approach to financial aid and scholarships? And what steps can students and their families take to help ensure that they can afford whatever school they're gonna attend? - Sure. For us, it really starts first and foremost with, and again, I'll say this, even though I'm speaking for UC Berkeley, it's also important going back to their research that you all are doing research for any of the schools that you're applying to in their respective process. For us with the UC system in Berkeley, we utilize the FAFSA. So the free application for a federal student aid. That is the only form that we require. We do not use this as a profile. We don't have in a supplemental form. It's just the FAFSA. Now for my, if I have my California students, they also have the California Dream Act application. That's another way to apply for financial aid. But for most students, FAFSA is going to be the way that a lot of them will apply for need-based financial aid on our campus. And I'll tell students to apply for that. Even if as a family, you think you may not qualify, it's very important that you still feel that out, because that may be tied to scholarships. That we may offer you for us to gauge how much need we have that you may have or just to have the paperwork and just kind of dotting your eyes across in your T. So really important that you fill out the FAFSA. For us, need-based aid looks very different. Of course, a federal aid is one of the main ways. I'll talk to my audience that gets first. The need-based aid, honestly, for through Berkeley and a lot of the UC systems, you don't see a lot of it. I'm going to be very transparent. Federal aid is the most of what you will see when it comes to need-based financial aid. So being that, let's say a student is pale-grant eligible. That is definitely something that you can use on our campus to help pay for school. I'm hoping that that more money will be allotted for pale-grant to knock those up, for students in general federally. But pale-grants can be used in our camps for out-of-state students. Now, the institution-based grants that a lot of times we give to students where you're not paying it back. It's like your scholarship, it's not a scholarship, but students are not paying that back. You don't give a lot of that to out-of-state students anymore. We used to do that when I first started with Berkeley. We don't do that anymore. So you really won't see much of that at this point. So the most of the need-based aid is going to be more federal aid that you see. Now, for in-state students, you will see more of that. You will see grant aid that may be a minister if you're a California resident. You will also have programs such as our blue and gold kind of scholarship program where we are kind of capping tuition at a certain level for families that make a certain level of money or not above to kind of make sure that their middle class, it's kind of, well, that's actually called the middle class access program to kind of cap that amount of what students and what families have to pay. Something we have done, I will say as well, and this is for all students in-state and out-of-state, we have what we call a tuition stability program. So this is where now when students start with Berkeley really, you know, our different programs, different campuses, we're going to cap where your tuition is, where you start, and you'll pay the same amount of tuition for up to six years that you're on our campus. So that's really good to know. - Yeah, so I'm excited about that because it is expensive. So my thing is that is something that we are trying where we are capping that amount with the tuition stability program. And they get in beyond that kind of bridging from more of the need-based state to more scholarships. So if you give some merit-based scholarships, one scholarship, which is at Berkeley, our top scholarship is called the Regents and Chancellor Scholarship. So when students apply for admissions, we will automatically consider them for that particular scholarship. And we will actually reach out to them to let them know their finalists. They will go through an interview process if they've selected as pretty much a fully paid ride, search funding, guarantee the housing, and so on. And again, that's open to all students who apply. In addition to that, for we have our leadership scholarship, that's through our alumni association. We have an African-American initiative scholarship the students can apply for. And then for in-state students, we also have like, again, I mentioned a few months ago, our Blue and Gold scholarship program, we have what we call our Fiat Lux Scholarship, which this scholarship is attached to certain high schools within the state of California, that our Fiat Lux schools, they have certain programs, and that's money that students can receive. One of our newest scholarship programs, and I'm really excited about is our Native American Opportunity Program for students who are provided indigenous native students in the state of California, who are part of a federally recognized tribe. That will pretty much cover pretty much most of their expenses. And that's a newer program. So there is money there, but as I mentioned, you have to learn how to navigate that and see what's going to make the most sense because college is expensive and we're no different. And that's also why I make the distinction between the in-state students versus out-of-state because there are a lot more financial aid opportunities for my in-state students in comparison to my out-of-state students. And so for my out-of-state students, I always really try to stress to them. Please, please take your time to understand our process, what is available. There's also money once you're there, the different scholarships and contests and different things that you can qualify for as a Berkeley student, but knowing that you're coming in that you may not be offered a lot of financial aid. So hopefully you are doing your research on outside scholarships. So for instance, we do a couple of things through our financial aid page. We have what we call our calculator, which is our net price calculator, where students can kind of gauge what the financial aid may be if they come to Berkeley. So that's a tool that I'll always tell students that they should check out. And that's for any school. All of us have to have them in the United States so check that out. But then also we have a really cool scholarship search engine John for outside scholarships. So I tell students to like go there, just look for scholarships. You know, look for ones that are going to be a good mat for you, start applying for those because as a high school student, I've always been an advocate for students applying for outside scholarships. And they don't have to be a gate. They don't have to be a Coca-Cola. They can be 500 dollars through your local firehouse. They can be the church. It can be whatever through research you're doing. But there's a lot of money out there. So I always really try to encourage students to really start that scholarship search process as early as possible so that when it's time to come whether they come to Berkeley or not, they have other monies to help pay for their education. And that's really big one for a lot of my out-of-state students. Our freshman class brings in about annually about $64 million in outside scholarships every year. So that's a major way that a lot of kids will help kind of pay their expenses coming to Berkeley John. - Well, I really appreciate that comprehensive overview. You took the time to talk about your in-state, obviously your California students, and the many that come to Berkeley or want to come to Berkeley from out of state. You mentioned your net price calculator, which is very important. All schools must have it. Sometimes it's as simple as doing a search. You see Berkeley net price calculator, but you also mentioned your scholarship search engine. Jua, anything that you want to link again in the show notes to help students with whether it's the net price calculator to scholarship search engine or you listed so many different types of scholarships for in-state students and out-of-state students just provide it to me and I'll gladly put it in the show notes. - Dr. Cooper. Bowies out. I'm sorry, what'd you say? - No, I said, I've got you covered. I will definitely send them your way. - Thank you so much. I appreciate that, Jua. And transfer students also play a significant role in the UC system. So what unique considerations do transfer applicants face and how can they best prepare for a successful application process? - Yeah, definitely. That's a great question. And I always appreciate the opportunity to talk about our transfer students just because everybody's not going to be admitted as a freshman. And a lot of times, even if they are, it may not be the right timing. And so the degree is a degree. And it doesn't matter how you get there as long as you get there, if this is something that you want to do. Yeah, transfers are a major part of our community. We have a policy where for every two freshmen that we admit, we admit one transfer student. So we bring in around 3,000 who transfer every fall. So it's a large part of our population. Some things to know about our process is that I'll say over 90% of our transfers are coming from California community colleges. That is our first part already. Because they, first of all, everything is articulated. It's very clearly articulated. If you go to this college, and say Santa Monica College, if you take this and take that, this is how you can be competitive and get credit for these particular courses. But also, we want to make sure that we're covering those students who cannot earn a four year degree. So a lot of students feel like they can go to another UC campus and they'll have a kind of a step up as a transfer student. I'm like, no, you're not first priority for us because you can earn a four year degree from a great campus. So our first priority, our California community college students, then just community college students have a hole. And then last, we really are students at four year institutions, whether it is the other UC campus in state or out of state four year universities and so on. And the difference is, where with the freshman process, it is holistic. With that, if you apply as a freshman, we'll review you, period. For transfer, there are certain kind of benchmarks they have to meet before we kind of go into our comprehensive review for transfers. So that's the biggest distinction. So for that, there's a minimum GPA requirement. So like for us, it Berkeley specifically, and this is just Berkeley, I'm speaking for us because there's different things that we utilize for the system versus per campus. Berkeley 3.0 minimum, 60 semester units or 90 quarter units. And then also a journal education requirement. So you know, your English, your math, your language other than English. So once you kind of meet those three kind of benchmarks, then we move into our comprehensive review when we look at everything else. One of the biggest things for transfers that makes a huge difference in our process is that are they academically prepared to declare their particular major once they get to our campus? So I'll say if a student wants to study psychology, you should have already taken those prerequisite classes. Psychology courses that your other institution first, so that when you come to Berkeley, you're able to declare the major and move forward. So those prerequisites play a really, really big part of our process to be more most competitive in addition to the GPA and those other things. And then what else are you involved in? And for transfers, they look different. You know, these may be my full time, you know, people who are working full time jobs and who are parents, you know, who are, who've got more life. This may be some of my military and so on. So that population looks very different. I love that population. I love reading those applications. They have a lot of life. So those are some differences in the process as job as far as kind of how we review transfers in relation to freshmen. But we have a lot of support systems for transfer students. And that's a really big one for my transfer students. If you're looking at schools, really do the work to understand how do they support you when you actually matriculate? Once you get there, how do they make you feel a part of the community? And what do they have in place? Like for us, we have our transfer center, which is amazing. It is a huge hub to really support transfer students. But we also have our student parent center. We have our reentry student program. This is for our students who are 25 years and older and so on. So again, that support system is really important for transfer students, depending on whatever school they're going to again, so that they know that they're a part of the community. And they have what they need to thrive once they get there. Well, I really appreciate that. And you emphasize all of these different support systems that you have for your students, which I think is terrific. I was curious, Joe, what support does UC Berkeley have in place? For students that may have had an IEP while in high school, that's an individualized education plan. Of course, to help them ensure that they continue to be successful once they're on your campus. Sure, definitely. So that's started to what we call our Disabled Students Program. And we use that for any type of disability, learning disability, neurodivergent, physical, whatever that may be. It compasses all. We actually have the first program of this kind in the nation for school. So that's a really big one for us. Yeah. And it's really-- it always makes me smile when I meet students who may have some type of disability who know that. And that's one of the reasons that they're interested in Berkeley. And so it's really important that when students apply, first of all, that's something that you can talk about in your application. Let me just say that first and foremost, because a lot of students sometimes feel like that's not something I should share. There's some time, but sense of shame, there is none. And it shouldn't be a part of your story. Because if this is a part of-- if you have some type of IEP and it is affected your performance potentially and/or access to anything, I need to know that. Because I can't just read the application academically see all of us without the context of that. So let me start by saying that. That's a really important context. Please share that with us. But once let's say you're admitted, you decide to come to Berkeley. The Disabled Students Program have that information. We're going to send you information so that you can communicate what you need. What kind of accommodations do we need to provide to you in the classroom, in your dorm, whatever that may be on our campus so that you have the support that you need? That is a part of that. So it's really, really important to students just to communicate that to us so that we know that. Some students don't tell us at all. And you don't have to. It's not mandatory. But if you know that you need certain things so that you can do your best on our campus, always tell us who's please, please share that with us. We will definitely meet you where you are to support you from day one on our campus. Well, I really appreciate you emphasizing that if in fact you had an IEP or something else while in high school, definitely let someone like Joe who's in admissions obviously at UC Berkeley let them know about it. Again, it comes back to anything that you don't share. You're leaving it up to the admissions representative to speculate, which is not going to help you. So if there's something you have a learning disability or whatever it is, let people know like Joe or so that they can put resources in place to help you again so that you continue to be successful once you're on campus. So we really appreciate that inside, Joe, what about aspiring student athletes? How does the application process differ for them? And what advice can you offer them? Sure. I will say the process is the same as far as the admissions process when it comes to the reviewing of the applications and so forth. I will say, but before I've been kind of digging that I will say first and foremost, especially we are Division One. So we are making the shift to a different conference this fall and we shall see how this turns out. But because we are Division One School, there's a lot of policies and restrictions first say that have to be met and kind of in place to make sure that we are meeting guidelines and not being put into any kind of liable space for us and for you. So when I was still student, first and foremost, if you are an athlete, let's say you have not recruited, actively recruited yet by a team on our campus, it's go to our website on the kind of the cow part of the website, Cal athletics. When people talk about cow, like the shirt I have on you guys can see it as a cow. That's the athletic part of UC Berkeley cow. And so there is a website for Cal athletics. On the top of the page, there's actually a recruit interest form that you can fill out and submit it. So I will say start there. Make sure that you go ahead and submit that form. And if you have not already started the conversations with the coach or coaches, submit that. There's also communication information for the different coaches on the website. Follow up with the email. Go ahead and put them to the form and then follow up. That way that the communication starts early. You know what sports and moves quickly? There's a lot going on. Maybe they're coming to your area for recruitment. Maybe they'll get a chance to speak with you of them in your town, your city, your region, whatever. So make sure that you start that communication as soon as possible. And a lot of times these coaches are looking at students for years. So you really want to make sure that you start that as soon as possible. You can be a walk on our campus. But clearly, the sooner you have the communication, always the better, not too much and they have money. So you never know that also might be a scholarship money that they may help. So I will say start there, start the communication. We also have sports clubs. So this is separate. So we have varsity level and we have sports club. Some sports club teams also recruit. They compete nationally. They're no joke. So that also may be something you at least want to reach out and ask. As a prospective student, you are always welcome to reach out and act to what you need to know. We all recruit. Now just admissions. So feel free to reach out to that coaches and just ask questions and see what's going on there. So I would encourage them to do that. And what will happen, that's one part of the process. So you're taking care of the athletic part of it. From the admissions standpoint, it's the same process. You're still going to talk to us. Hopefully you talked to me. Remember, as you're in a region, you come to college fairs the whole bit. You still apply to the UC application. And in our office, we actually have athletic liaison. So I have colleagues who that is their role. They are actually are the liaison from admissions to the athletic coaches. And they work with the coaches to make sure to identify all athletes who will apply any issues with the process. They work for a stand with the coaches. So that's-- kind of the behind the scenes where they will work with the coaches to make sure everything is good. If the coaches recruiting someone, they communicate with us. So that is the behind the scenes part of it. So from a student standpoint, really it's just again, start the communication, follow the guidelines, clearly keep, you know, do whatever sports you're in, you know, keep going what you're doing, and then academically make sure that you're still prepared because as an athlete, you still have to be at the same level as everyone else applying to Berkeley. And our athletes are, you have students who are junior Olympians and they still have excellent grades and are highly involved. So some students feel like, well, I don't have to be as strong in that area. I said, unfortunately, you do because coming to Berkeley, you have to be able to academically also thrive. Now, let me say this, there are a lot of resources for our athletes because their schedules are very different with the travel schedules and the, you know, practices and so forth. We know that. So there's a lot of support to support them. But you have to also, again, be academically prepared to come and still thrive at Berkeley in addition to being a world class athlete. Well, we appreciate that, especially all of the different parts of your website, the recruit interest form, the different contact information for your coaches. And what I'll also include in the show notes is the link to the NC double A because, you know, the rules and the guidelines, they do change. So it's very important if you're an aspiring student athlete to make sure that you're up to date with the NC double A rules. So, Joe, this has been an amazing conversation as I knew it would be because not only is UC Berkeley awesome, but you're amazing yourself. Thank you. Yeah. Well, thank you for your time. And before I get to the last question, I just have to ask, is there a question I didn't ask that you wish I had or perhaps a topic that I didn't bring up that you wish to share without listeners at this time? Not really. Not anything specific because I feel like hopefully we've been able to kind of bridge off into other parts of the conversation from maybe some of the initial points. I think one of the biggest ones for me that I'm always, I think focused on is a support part, which I think you can tell from my response. In addition to admissions, it's not just enough that we admit you and you get to Berkeley, but how do we support you as an individual, as a scholar, as an athlete, as a creative once you come to us? And that's a really big one because to me, that goes back to that, that, you know, rate of keeping our students, you know, again, of like, how do we support you? So it's not, we don't just, you know, I even know what helped get you in. I want you to love being at UC Berkeley. I want you to love the experience. So that is always a part of my response. And so thank you, Webb Bay, we kind of bridge all of that in. So I will say so no. So there's no additional questions, but I will say this as well. If you all have any questions moving forward, you can go through our website through the admissions page. There's a kind of contact us form. You can send us messages. We have a virtual front desk where you can sign on Zoom and ask questions. You can submit your questions. If you are, you know, if we come to your school for a school visit, talk to us. If we're at a college or come out, we will post these things. So always feel free to ask your questions. Always want to encourage students to do that because I know we've covered quite a bit, John, but there's always, always going to be a lot more questions. But I always want you all to know you are always welcome to reach out and ask questions that you may have. That is why we're here. Well, we appreciate that. And you did an awesome job. Not only explaining your review process and how you get students to your campus, right? Admitted to UC Berkeley. But also one student stair, you really explained the many different supports that are available to all of your students, which of course makes that amazing UC Berkeley community. As you put it up to about 98% retention rate, which is just incredible. This has been a phenomenal conversation. You are unfortunately, it does lead us to the last question, which is, what are your top piece of advice you would provide students and their parents getting ready for the college admissions process? Yeah, sure. So I have to think about this. I like this question. So I would say one of the first things I always tell students is start early. I'm seeing a lot more even freshmen coming to me at college fairs or sometimes it will school will allow it to a school visit the different programs or panels, whatever. So start early. I think the sooner that you can start the better, just so that understand that you all are not going to learn all of this. What we're talking about overnight. It's a process and a lot of time that takes years to get it, we even internally in admissions. We sometimes it was confusion because there's a lot of this that the landscape is constantly changing. So start early, the early that you started, the more comfortable you will be with the process. You'll learn our terminology. You will learn the right questions to ask for you and they may change during the process. And that's okay. But you'll learn the right questions to ask for you. You'll understand what kind of schools you want to apply to and so on. So the early that you can start it is a better scholarship of applications, all of these various things. So definitely start early. It's again, so that you're not procrastinating. You're not getting to the last minute or it's right before you have to apply it, then you're trying to figure it out. Avoid that because it's a lot to take in. So you really want to start early. That's my number one thing. Start early. Please as parents always stress to understand that your student is in the driver's seat. This is their process. This is their education. This is their life. This is not about you in this way. You are in that passenger seat. You should have a role. Definitely. They you need to support them through this process. You're the one with the life experience. You may have gone to college. You may not have but bottom line you are the adult. So you want to support them, but they are leading this process. So that means that if you were coming to college fairs, they need to come to the table. You can come step behind them a little bit. Let them ask questions first so that they become more comfortable asking questions. And then of course, if you have questions, come up and ask your questions as well. Let them start that process. If you are coming to campus visits, which are really important in this process, let them check in. You know, when you're on the tour, let them process what's going on. Let them ask questions. Don't take over the process. Maybe you all talk about it after the fact, but let them process it for themselves as an individual. And that way you all can have a really meaningful conversation with you may be imposing your thoughts or your kind of desires like, no, I want you to do this in the moment. Let them have that moment. So understand again, they are in the driver's seat. You are a support. But our role is very important when it comes to financial. What can you afford? What makes sense? How far do you want to be away from home? It's a lot of thing that you definitely again have a parted. But again, your student is driving the process. Let them let them lead. Please, please. And then finally, I will just say, please do not let this process take over your lives. That is not the goal. This should be fun. Your student, you all should be excited about this next days of their life. But some individuals, they will let this take completely over. And that, and when it does that, it's a negative process. It's overwhelming. It's not fun. And it should be fun. So please don't let this take over your life. Try to set some parameters around maybe when you talk about the process a lot of times, there's a mission reps. We will say, maybe set a certain week, day of the week, maybe a certain time on that day, maybe on Wednesday that five o'clock or six o'clock, whatever that may be or after dinner, whatever that is. And you set it like an hour. This is our day. And this is our time that we talk about admissions. What did you learn this week? What schools are you thinking about? What things matter to you? What kind of schools, you know, and then as a parent, maybe as you're doing your research, you can share what you're learning. And then that's your time to really communicate about the process. And then you cut it off and deal with and talk about other things that have nothing to do with college admissions and you just live your life so that you can really appreciate and enjoy the process. And again, do not let it overwhelm you. So please again, do not let this process take over your life. Give yourself some grace, set parameters, as you go through this process. Well, those are amazing pieces of advice. This whole conversation has been a tremendous overview of the great things that UC Berkeley has to offer at students your overall review process and the advice not only to students, but their parents. Joe UC Berkeley is obviously so lucky to have you as well we on this podcast episode. And I have to tell you, I'm so happy as I know that this conversation is going to help so many students and their parents as they navigate the college admissions process. I do hope to have you again in the future, Joe. You're awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you, John. I appreciate being here. Thank you for the invitation to participate in the podcast. Well, my honor and pleasure and one last thing to say to everyone out there. Good luck with the admissions process and best wishes to all take care. Thank you for joining us on this episode of the cap to college admissions process podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. If you did, please don't forget to tell a friend and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and wherever you listen to your podcast. I am your host, John DeRontan, and I look forward to seeing on the next episode of the cap. Hey, podcast friends. If you've been enjoying the college admissions process podcast, I'm excited to share my new book straight from the admissions office insider strategies for college applications. It's packed with insights and tips from over 250 podcast episodes with admissions professionals designed to make the college process less overwhelming. Whether you're a student, parent or college counselor, it's a valuable resource for navigating the admissions process. (upbeat music)