366. UC Berkeley - Jua Howard - Assistant Director of Admissions

[MUSIC] It's a great pleasure that I welcome back, Dr. Sean Patel, who's the CEO and founder of Prep Expert, the title sponsor of the College of Mission's Process Podcast. Sean, you have a special message for the listeners? >> Hey, John, I just wanted to mention for all the parents and students who are listening to this great podcast, we have a really special offer. Only for listeners of the College of Mission's Process Podcast for Prep Expert. So if your student is going to be taking an online SAT, ACT, PSAT course anytime soon or is looking for one-on-one tutoring with top 1% tutors, head over to prepexpert.com. We offer live online courses for every College of Mission's exam. On top of that, we have the best score guarantees, best curriculum, and best instructors in the test prep industry. And just for listeners of the College of Mission's Process Podcast, you can get 20% off any online SAT or PSAT or ACT course, as well as one-on-one tutoring. So you can get 20% off. Just make sure you use the promo code, College Talk. That's one word, College Talk. And you'll get 20% off just for listeners of the College of Mission's Process Podcast. And I hope you guys can use that to your advantage, save a bunch of money at prepexpert.com. Thank you so much, John. And it's everyone out there. Once again, that promo code is College Talk. Thank you all and best wishes. Welcome to the cap where we are here to speak with college reps and other professionals in the field of college admissions to help answer all of your questions and guide you to every step of the process. So if you're serious about college admissions, you've come to the right place. Are you ready? Let's talk about it. And now, here's your host, Dr. John DeRonté. Welcome to the cap, the College of Mission's Process Podcast. I am your host, John DeRonté and it gives me great pleasure to welcome back to you, Jua Howard, who's the assistant director of admissions at UC Berkeley in beautiful California. Now, Jua was on for episode 206, which was released back in May of 2024. Jua, you are a mentor, a friend. Once again, it was great seeing you at NACAC as always. How are you doing, my friend? I'm doing all right, John. Such always-con words. That's always always such a pleasure to see you and it's quite mutual. But I'm doing quite well, you know, outreach, in it on a positive note. Now, we shifted into the reading process of the cycle. So in good spirits and also a solidity time. So that's a good combination for me. Definitely a good combination. And every time I talk to you, it's nothing but great feelings and spirit. So Jua, let's get right to it and talk about UC Berkeley, for those, by the way, who may not be as familiar. Can you stop by giving us an overview of UC Berkeley? What makes it stand out, not only within the UC system, but also among the major public research universities worldwide? Yeah. And so I always start, I think, first and foremost with UC Berkeley. I think one of the main distinctions is the fact that it is the flagship campus for the University of California's system. Now, there are nine of us in total. I think John, our my first time on the podcast was with my colleagues from the other UCs. That was my first introduction, which was a lot of fun. And so again, but we're the flagship for the UC system. And so I feel like when you're dealing with the largest public research system in the world, the fact that Berkeley started that tradition is a major distinction. And it's a point of pride that we kind of hold that kind of space within the system. So, but in addition to just being the flagship campus, for me, I always think one of the best things about Berkeley already touched upon at this location. So we're in Northern California. We're about 25 minutes outside of San Francisco. So I love the fact that we're depending on where you're standing on campus, you can see across the bay to the San Francisco city skyline. You can see the Golden Gate Bridge. If the fog is not too thick on that day, so it's a beautiful location, as you mentioned. But more importantly, it's easy access to the city for students. So 25 minutes on board, our subway system, you're in the city. We're even closer to Oakland. So you are near two metropolitan cities for research and internships and jobs and really good food. And if you're creative and so forth, so the area itself really affords itself to students, take in full advantage of whatever the purpose may be. We're also about 45 or 50 minutes to Silicon Valley. That is a really big draw for a lot of students. To this day, we still send the most alumni into Silicon Valley. And so a lot of our homes are business owners. They are CEO, so it really helps us in being able to offer really wonderful internship opportunities and research. We're currently building our old space center in Silicon Valley, a conjunction with NASA. So that'll bring a whole host of other internships and research opportunities. So, and then if that's not enough, we're about 45, 50 minutes to wine country, nap a valley. I always say that's probably more of a selling point for parents who are visiting, but students take advantage of it as well. So I think the location is really key as well with UC Berkeley. One of the biggest updates and just for everybody to know, starting this fall that we're in now, Berkeley students actually can ride BART, our subway system for free. So that is actually something that our student government negotiated to win. So students can get around very easily and they'll save them some money. So just something to know. But in addition to that, we're one of the larger UC campuses. So we have a little bit over 33,000 undergrad students. We also have over 11,000 grad students representing all 50 states, close to 100 different countries. So one of the benefits is the very global community. We all talk about diversity and that goes just beyond kind of racial and ethnic diversity, but also geographic diversity. And I think for a state public school, that's something you always want to really stress, because the Berkeley brand and the reach is very much global in what we do. And in addition to that, we have over 150 majors and minors split between six colleges in one school. College of letters and sciences are largest college. That's where about 75% of our students are located. That has everything from your art and humanities, your biological sciences, social sciences, your physical sciences and mathematics and so forth. We also have our school of business, second oldest one in the country. Excellular reputations consider one of the best in the world for entrepreneurship. We have our College of Engineering, College of Chemistry, fun fact. We've added about 16 elements to the periodic table. So that's also something that did distinguished Berkeley. We're very strong in that arena. We have our College of Natural Resources. So if you're everything from environmental sciences to even maybe if you're looking to go to med school, that's a really great option for students. College of Environmental Design, which is more of your architecture urban planning. And then finally our brand new College College of Computing, Data Science and Society. This is where you have three majors. So computer science of course, data science, but also statistics. And so that's a more that college has been around the last couple of years. What I love about is the majors have been around for a very long time, but those are some of our most popular majors. So we've kind of give them their own space as I see it to kind of affect the quality of the experience for students. So you have a wide range of options. And if you know, then also one thing I always give Berkeley credit for is if we're very innovative. And I use that as a term for prospective students and looking at students who have that kind of mindset. But we also have what we call dual degree programs. These are programs where students can earn two degrees in a four year time light. And it's already a formal program. So one of our most popular ones and I'm sure a lot of your listeners and students of your listeners may know about is our MET program management, entrepreneurship and technology. And this is a program where students can earn a degree in engineering and a degree in business. In four years. And kind of those alarms that I mentioned in Silicon Valley, a lot of them have that kind of backgrounds. That's kind of where that program kind of came from. It's kind of the impetus to starting it. But we also have a program, a Robinson Life Science Business Entrepreneurship program where students can earn a degree in business once again. But in this program, it's also mixed with the degree in a biological science. And then bridging to those international students, those students who really want that global experience. Now we have about close to 200 study abroad programs. So that is very much a part of what we do as well. But the dual degree programs right now we're working with Ciance Poe in France and also the University of Hong Kong. And the really cool part about these programs is your first two years of college. You will spend it one of our partner institutions. So first two years, here's in France. First two years, you are in Hong Kong. Last year, as we get to a Berkeley. And then when you graduate, you will see degrees from both institutions. So that's also a really popular program. So again, very innovative, always figuring out kind of what's the need of students and how do we match them? Where do we meet them? How can we kind of build on what we're doing? We are a research one institution. I think a lot of people know us for the work that we've done, whether it's everything from the flu vaccine to vitamins E and K that everybody does not know about. And we have a lot of programs. One that I always mentioned is the undergrad Research and Prinyship program. This particular one, students can apply during their first year at Berkeley. So it was a really kind of gateway to getting involved in research on our campus. And it's open to a broad range of majors. You could be a physics major, you could be an English major, and be in this. So a lot of our programs have not strictly forced them to. and I always want students to know that. But it allows them a chance to work with faculty and staff researchers. We have our undergrad researchers of color program. We have our discovery hub, which is open to all students. And that's a great way to find research, different project-based opportunities. And then we're very into displaying how we teach it, Berkeley. And I feel like, John, you probably can, you know this work with your own students. I think a lot of students now have a lot of varied interests. And so we're always thinking about how do we combine these different interests for students to make it easy. And we're not making it that much harder for them to really explore. So we have a program that we call our LNS Pathways program. And so this is a part of the College of Letters and Science. But this particular program is really cool where each pathway has about three to four classes. They take the classes throughout an academic year. And they take the same classes with the same group of students. So it's a really good way as a large campus. That students can find community. You're taking the class with the same students that you're able to engage in that way. You're taking with world-renowned faculty. But that's a way to be kind of interdisciplinary. Another program that's really cool to Berkeley are courses that are called decal classes. Now this is one of my favorite things that we do. These are courses actually created and taught by Berkeley students. So they have to present it. They have to create a syllabus, the, you know, the timeline they have to have it approved by the faculty or academic department. And if it's approved, they teach it for the semester. So we have about 152, about 200 courses taught every semester. Probably one of the most popular still are Pokemon Academy. But they teach on everything from like adulting, cooking. One of our more popular ones has been one about Taylor Swift. So for the Swifties. So what I like is that students taught about the economic impact of Taylor Swift. So as she's touring, how is she impact these local areas that she's around and having the effect. So that's something else that students can do. But getting beyond the academic portion, Berkeley has over 1200 student groups in organizations. So we are very actively engaged community. It's not just you go to class, like we are becoming a part of a community. We're also doing academic group, affinity group or community service base, creative based. We have Greek life. If that's a ventures, we're also division one in athletics, even though we shifted. Converters says a couple of say a couple of years ago. But 28 varsity teams for the paris Olympics. Berkeley had 59 athletes competing between current students and alums. And we were like number two overall for the most metals of any university. So we do compete at a high level, a math component. So overall, I always say is I feel is a very balanced experience of Berkeley. You have the think 10 component of Berkeley. But again, it's a lot of ways to be engaged and to develop as an individual. And to me, that's what it is. And it goes beyond just kind of the brand and the title of Berkeley. That's really the quality and experience that we try to cultivate and maintain. Well, that is absolutely amazing. You're a global powerhouse, you're a flagship of the entire UC system. Over 150 majors and minors located by the way in beautiful northern California to your point. You have metropolitan cities right by you. And then you have beautiful wine country up there, which is amazing. Not to mention the space center with NASA, which is incredible. And I really love how you dig deep and explain the different interdisciplinary study opportunities in terms of your majors that are combined. Because as you mentioned, students have so many different pathways these days, so many different interests. And so it really does sound. You have something for everyone at UC Berkeley, whether it's the academics, the athletics, the environment. Really an amazing overview that I appreciate. And of course, you know, the UC system is guided by a public mission, access, service, and impact. How do Berkeley students experience that mission in real day to day ways, both academically and socially? You know, I think it always starts with the history of Berkeley. I mean, I never gloss over that fact when I talk to families, the fact that we are the home of the free speech movement. And so I feel like that really set the tone for who we are as a campus. And I think individuals I talk to, that's how they see Berkeley. You know, that sense of to your point, you say a John that sense of service. In addition to the UC system, that'd be one of our core tenants, public service. But for Berkeley, specifically, that sets the tone of really students coming on to our campus and really being those change makers. How they do that in a lot of different ways. So it could be something through our public service center. So one of our more popular programs for students who may want more of a domestic exchange without call is really not a exchange. But it's just not on campuses are UC DC program, which is based on Washington DC. And so students could be a part of the UC DC program. We call it Callin' a Capital. One of the cool parts about that is actually you live with students from all non-UC campuses. So it allows students to really learn and engage with the larger UC family. But students go there, they're taking academic classes, they could be through the academic semester, could even be in the summer. But they're also having an internship that's incorporated into that, whether that's something maybe on Capitol Hill. It may be with green piece. It may be one with one of the Smithsonian museums and so forth. So you have that kind of program. We have a somewhat similar program in Sacramento. So if you want to stay in the state of California and engage in kind of understanding public service that way. We also have through the public service center alternative break. So as I tell students, if you don't want to go all spring break, you don't want to hang out with your friends on the beach. There's a way to help others. So you may go and help a community that has been impacted maybe by a natural disaster. Because that's something clearly that's going on on a more frequent basis. Unfortunately now we also have programs like Deal. Deal is where students help local youth learn how to read. So you know, it's always feel like it's kind of kind of that macro to micro really just depends on the impact and how much they want to do to be involved. They also may be involved in the associated students of the University of California. That's our large that's our student government group. And it's one of the largest in the country. When I mentioned earlier about students being able to write bark for free. That's the result of the work of the student government group. They negotiated that, but they also deal with issues around mental health services, study spaces and so forth. So they do some really wonderful work. You also could do something maybe through our Institute of governmental studies. So we have a democracy camp. Now the democracy camp also come to DC. But that's just like a week long program. I actually engage with the students this past cycle who were at it. And something that really struck me is that most of those students, a lot of them, and ever left the state of California. Some of them, those their first time really doing a lot of different things and engaging learning coming to DC, learning about the different entities of the community. The different entities of the governmental agencies meeting potentially with the congressman or congresswoman. Talking to the individuals for the UC system who lobby for us for with, you know, Congress and so forth. So it really opened their eyes to quite a bit. We also have a really cool program, which is called our John Gardner Public Service Fellowship. This is actually one for graduating seniors. So this is one for students who, and it could be open to any major as long as there's really been a commitment to public service. But after graduating, it's a 10 month program, like a $52,000 stipend, and it places them with nonprofits, also governmental groups organizations. And it's a 10 month program and it really helps get them on their feet in that kind of work life. So I always feel like with us, it's so many different ways that we approach it so that it's, it has some teeth, as I say, you know, it's not just kind of theoretical. No, students get out there, they get involved, they get engaged. A lot of our students are running their whole nonprofits. They're running them before they get to us as a first year student. So they get to Berkman, just kind of grow it. But that's also, I think all of that combined is why we're still the number one producer of volunteers for the Peace Corps. That stays a part of what we do in addition. We're still on the top producers for Teach For America. So you have those educators. In addition, kind of going back to that entrepreneurial part because I do think that's really important. A lot of our students who are kind of in that really taking advantage of our startup culture really based more around social entrepreneurship. Really doing things, creating businesses and entities that are really improving the quality of life for individuals. So we have our big ideas contest, which is a group contest. It's a year long process. But the winning team, they come up with ideas to kind of address different social problems and issues. And the winning team receives some funding to help them implement it. So there's always something to do. So always tell students if that's kind of coming out of high school. Those are things that are important to you. Even if you've never done anything, but you know you care. And you want to have the impact in certain ways. Berkley is a really great space for you. But I always say it definitely goes back to the historical component of Berkley in the culture that has been built through the decades. Well, that culture that has been built through the decades has certainly had its impact. All of the public service opportunities, the humanitarian efforts, the real world experiences. Again, it really sounds like you have something for everyone. And I really mean it when I say it for UC Berkley. Now, you know, your admissions process, of course, is holistic and test free, which will unpackage in a little bit. Which of course can be confusing for many students and their families, Joe. So how does your team balance academic metrics with personal insight, activities and overall context, especially without standardized test scores? Right. You know, I feel like this is one of the most, I think frequent questions sometimes I'll receive not worded in such a, in such a thoughtful way. I will say to happen, but I feel like that's a lot of times the question we receive from. from families, you know, and counselor counterparts sometimes as well. You know, it's really that full picture. You know, I feel like the holistic process doesn't work if we don't have a full picture of an applicant. So it really is everything in totality. I think with the UC system becoming test free in the spring of 2020, we've had some years not to really look at how that impacted the quality of our applicant pool who is coming onto our campuses. And we're seeing that same level of intention, the same level of performance from our students who are coming to our campuses. So you're literally just taking one piece of data out of the pie or puzzle as I call it and everything else is still on the table. So if we're looking at academic performance, you know, first and foremost of the holistic process, which are work that we use a lot in our world is context and you said it, looking at really what's available to that student at their school and how are they maximizing it. So we really start there and then look at based upon that, how are they maximizing, let's say, the curricula. So are you taking those challenging courses? Clearly, your grades are important. We're looking at trends of grades. So maybe you've been consistently strong throughout high school. Maybe you're that student who's had a little trouble at the beginning, but your grades haven't proved over time, which is a positive. Maybe that other student who's going down or which we'll talk about, you know, how to address that. But in addition to that, even though we don't look at standardized tests, students who may be part of an AP curriculum and they do take the AP exams, we will consider those kinds of exams, IB exams, A levels for students who are, maybe somebody in national schools. And then we get into what else you bring into the table. I would say that most of our applicants are academically solid. So we're looking at all what we've already talked about, John. You say, you know, Berkeley offers everything. We have a little something for everybody. That's because students are, you know, always say kind of hold our feet to the fire. They demand that of us because they're bringing so much of the table when they join us. So that's what we have so much that we offer and they're creating new things for themselves as well. So we want community members. So I need to get a sense of what are you already doing in high school that'll allow me to see into the per se future to see, okay, what are you gonna do when you get to Berkeley? So I need to have concrete examples. So looking at what you involved in in school, that could be school based or non school based. You may be that student who is a mixture of student government. You're on the robotics team. You're on a sports team, but you also have a part-time job. You may be running your own business, but you're also doing community service and so forth. All of that is valuable information. And then how we kind of accumulate all of that information to do out all of the sections of the application from the academic self-report through the P.I.Q. responses through the extracurricular section. So all of it comes together to hopefully, if students are doing it right to give us a really full picture of who they are as an individual and how that will reflect on our campus if they do join us. So it's really that full picture. And I feel like we work at it every year. I feel like perfection doesn't exist in our world. And I think in a process, especially with a Berkeley and other schools like us, well, we are highly selective. And you have to tell more students, no, then yes, which is very difficult. We are very sensitive to how we go through that. And we do our best to make sure that we are building the best class for our community, but also in the note that most of our applicants would do great things at Berkeley. But we also know that if they don't find a place to Berkeley, they will find a place elsewhere and do great things still. - Yeah, well, no doubt you definitely have amazing students that are applying to the beautiful UC Berkeley. You emphasize the fact that you're looking for, in terms of academic students that are solid, that could absolutely handle the work once they're on your campus because that's what you want. You want students to come to your school that are gonna be successful. But I also appreciate how you touched upon the fact that you're looking to build a community. And you do that by seeing the types of activities, students participated in while in high school. And I appreciate what you said. It could be school-based, it could be non-school-based, whatever it is, if you hold a job students, you have to use the overall application as a marketing package. You have to understand that there are multiple parts, understand what each part represents, how it needs to complement the next, build upon the next without necessarily repeating the same information over and over and over again, otherwise it's this opportunity. You also talked about reviewing students in context, you are. How does that work when applicants come from very different schools, some with dozens of AP offerings, while there's only have a few, and how do you ensure fairness and opportunity in the process because so many families say to me, is my kid in a disadvantage because my high school doesn't offer APs and that's school down the block. And there's always a school down the block, well they offer 30. So, what can shed some light on us please, you are? Sure, yeah, absolutely. So the context starts with, one, I will say one thing that we do, and this is something I'll speak for Berkeley specifically. Several years ago, we shifted to kind of the regional model. So that affects how we go up, how we approach our outreach, and then also how we read. And so from the outreach standpoint, so for me specifically, I handle outreach in the Mid-Atlantic part of the United States. So, Virginia, DC, Maryland, Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey. So in my outreach efforts, typically that's where I'm going to meet students, to talk to them, to talk to their counselors, to understand where they're located, to understand the details and nuances of their particular school. So that when it comes to the admission part of things and we're starting to review applications, myself and my colleagues on my team who read, and we read by region as well, I made it to understand and really talk to them about the particular context of where we're reading. What is the difference as the nuances depending on a high school in New Jersey that is STEM, specific to maybe a high school in DC, that is public charter school and so on. And so it's our job as admission professionals to best understand the context of the region, of the particular school, to then be able to be fair in our review of that student. So if I'm getting a student from a particular high school, for us we have a lot of data. We see information from the last three to four years, sometimes where we're seeing what's the average number of let's say the school offers at AP curriculum and honors level classes. How many APs are students typically taking? How many honors level courses are students typically taking? So if you're applying, where are you falling in comparison to your peers? Are you maximizing what's there? But also another part of that is let's say even let's say AP curriculum, this school has the limitation. So maybe students can only take maximum three AP courses junior and senior year, but they may offer a lot of different options than I'm not expecting students to take more than what that limitation is because that's the structure of their curriculum. And so that is something we have to know. We also a lot of times we have school profiles. So we're having school profiles now, not all UC campuses because the quantity of applications is quite massive. So not every UC campus really can really have the time to really take to really go through and review school profiles. So that doesn't occur at every UC campus. At Berkeley, typically if we have a profile, we review it because we really want to best understand the, again, context of that school. What curriculum is available, special programs? A lot of schools have maybe a set number of volunteer hours that students have to meet to graduate. So that helps us better understand, again, the context, the day-to-day world that that student lives in, what they are performing through to really be, give, again, strong and accurate, hopefully, context of what we're expecting from that student. So as I tell students a lot of times, because I get this from parents a lot, they feel that if their school, let's say, doesn't have an AP curriculum, that they are at a per se a detriment. And I have to stress to them, you are not. I'm looking at what the high school offers that your child goes to, what's available, and how are they utilizing it? That could be an IB curriculum. Backup curriculum that the school has constructed because I'm seeing a lot less AP curriculum at schools, and I'm gonna look at what that school offers. That school could also offer a mixture of all the above, AP, IB, dual enrollment, and so forth. So we'll always depend on the concepts of that perspective school. Schools that are under-resourced, same thing. At the school-only offers, let's say, they do have an AP curriculum, it's only five classes, then that's what I'm expecting to see. So it always walls down to the context of the school. I think one of the ways that we do from that checks and balance, I think that equity piece, John, is for us, every applicant is read a minimum of two times. So two different individuals. Because again, this is a human process. How I am coming to this process, in my viewpoint, how I read is gonna be one way. Another colleague is gonna read that student, maybe in the same way, differently, whatever. And if there needs to be additional reads, we do that as well. So there's a lot of filters per se, and a lot of checks and balances to make sure we are being fair to our applicants. Because again, we are human beings. Even in our training, we do implicit bias training to make sure that we are being as professionals, we are bringing our whole self to this process, how we are reviewing these applicants. We train throughout the process, how we ed burkly and how we read. So we do quite a bit to your point again, to really be equitable to these applicants. But for everybody, when it comes to the context, it gets it walls down to the school, then even locally, and then also home life. Though if we have information about the student's home life, students who may be a first generation college student, students who may have a single family household, it may be students who are well-resources at home or those who are not, and how that may impact the student. So it's really a lot of information that comes into play with that, to kind of gauge that context. (upbeat music) Hey podcast friends, if you've been enjoying the College Admissions Process Podcast, I'm excited to share my new book, Straight From the Admissions Office, Insider Strategies for College Applications. It's packed with insights and tips from over 250 podcast episodes with admissions professionals designed to make the college process less overwhelming. Whether you're a student, parent or college counselor, it's a valuable resource for navigating the admissions process. By grabbing a copy, you're also helping to support the podcast. The links are in the show notes. Thank you and best wishes to all with the College Admissions Process. Well, you definitely emphasize evaluating students based on the context of their high school. What are the typical classes that students from that school take? I would imagine that if you've had students graduate or who attend Berkeley currently from that particular high school, you become even more familiar in terms of the quality of the students from that particular school. So again, you keep emphasizing the context of the high school that you attend, but I just have to repeat the question because parents ask it all the time. When you're evaluating, are you comparing a student from ABC high school to the student from XYZ high school? Or again, is it only the context of the high school that they attend? It is only the high school of the high school they attend. And I will also add the fact that a lot of times, and this is not, I'll speak for the larger admission process. That's also where you have letters of recommendation come in, where you have counselors and or teachers who are part of that student's village, who can speak on behalf of the context. Sometimes that the student sometimes can't capture or articulate that. So that is also another way that schools that utilize letters of recommendation. That's another way to capture it. But also I tell students, they also have to self advocate. That's also how we gauge context. If something, let's say, affected your academic performance, you tell me what happened. What's going on? It could be a medical issue. I've had students whose teachers have left mid year. That affected the completion of a course. So a lot of different things the students are dealing with nowadays. So I will, I will want to add that in because those are two kind of key things and how we also can acquire that context being told by the student, but also by again, teachers, counselors, whomever, else, mentors and so forth based on the process and it's for any institution based on the process with letters of recommendation. So absolutely. While we appreciate that and you touched upon it, there's definitely a lot going on in students' lives these days, especially. And Berkeley's application includes an additional comments or additional information section where students can share context that this is fit elsewhere in the application. From your perspective, what kinds of information or experiences make the strongest use of this section and all there? Comment pitfalls students should avoid when deciding what to include. Got you. I will also say this going to the previous question. Though we started the school context, at some point we will look at the bigger overall applicant pool for that year. And also sometimes it also depends on the program. So let me throw those caveats in as well. When we look at the program that students applying for. So let's say they're applying to Berkeley College of Engineering. There are some additional levels that we're going to consider in addition to the school context and performance levels and so forth. But to your initial question, still starting in the school context, but then the overall applicant pool. So I also want to add that in just to give a broader scope as we kind of move through building the class because that is important. Now the additional comment boxes, which really ties to what you and I were just talking about again, context, there are two additional comment boxes on the UC application. So the first one is right after the academic self report section. This is for anything that has particularly maybe affected the students academic performance while they have been in high school. This is one that I tell students, if I see that bad grade, if you have that one C or D amidst a C of all A's, that is something that's going to catch my attention. I'm looking for an explanation. That's where you explain that bad grade. That is where you explain if you've had a downward grade trend. So maybe your grades may be 9th to 10th have been A's, but junior year, maybe they're primarily B's. These are not back, but that's still a shift. Tell us what happened, whatever that may be. In addition, students who've gone to more than one high school, left seeing this quite often, John, where they've gone to maybe two high school, sometimes even three high schools. And that's impacted their performance. Now I can see they shifted around, but that affects students differently. Some students may not affect them, but if that has been a part of what's affected the student, tell me that there. Also students who may go to high schools or maybe the grading system is a little different. That's not it may be a mastery, it may be a narrative type of curriculum. There may be certain limitations. They may be they've shifted their curriculum. We tell students to tell us that in that particular initial common box as well. Don't assume that someone knows, even if we have a school profile, for me, the more that we know, even if you're reiterating those key things, that's important. Sometimes, and this is for my counselor colleagues, if there's something very different that she wants to know about your curriculum for the UC system, and I say it again, that all of us look at school profiles, you can create, you can write a brief kind of brief paragraph that you can copy and paste into your student's application. They can copy and paste it so that that's in the additional common box as well. So that's also something that we will suggest to put in that first additional common box. Now the second one and the first one is around 550 characters. So you don't have a lot of words to work with. So keep that in mind. The second additional comment box is at the end of the application. This gives you 550 words. So it's definitely longer. So I've seen students talk about additional, maybe familiar responsibilities, issues impacted them at home. In addition, some students will list additional extra curricular activities that they were not able to place in the extracurricular section. That's okay. So that's typically what those are. So I feel like with the second additional comment box, I tell students, if there is anything else that you have not shared with us in the other parts of the application, you can place it there. That is what it's there for. These are not additional P.I.Q responses, which I'll tell you about. These are just for additional context that you want us to know. If there is nothing that you need us to know, they can be left blank. Most students probably I would say leave them blank, but what I really, and I'm happy that you're asking this, John, is what I really stress is that I want students to know why they are on the application. So you know how to use them when you need to. I have seen them make a major impact in certain applications. Information that students have shared. So they are there for the, it's there, both there for the students benefit. If they need to use them. While we appreciate that as soon as I want to repeat what Joe said earlier, don't assume that the admissions reps know. So again, look at the overall marketing package, understand each part, how they have to compliment each other and build upon each point. And remember, if you leave something out, perhaps there was a shift in your grades, perhaps you were in two, three different high schools during that four year period, anything that you don't express in your overall application, you leaving it up to the admissions professionals to speculate as to why something might have happened. So use those additional spaces to fill in any blanks in the overall application. So we appreciate what you shared with us, Joe, in terms of how to do it. And the examples you also kept mentioning the academic self report. So students are reporting their own academic record. And then at some point I assume later on in the process, you're actually comparing it or just confirming it with the student transcript. Is that correct? You are exactly correct. And I'll go back to really quickly, something you said. And I'm happy you said the word assumption, that speculation. If anything is left to assumption in this process, it's not going to benefit you as an applicant. We do not know you. And I always try to stress as soon as you remember, we are strangers. The whole point of the applications for you to educate us about yourself. That is the privilege for us. That's why we love this process. But you have to tell us these things. If we don't know, I can promise you a lot of us can kind of gauge. And we're rooting for you. We're looking for reasons to say yes. Let me say that. So we're typically, we see something is not clear. We're not sure. That's what we're automatically typically looking for an explanation because we are rooting for you. When we don't receive it, typically it is quite disappointing. And so therefore, that's when you're working against yourself. So thank you, John, for stressing that point of assumption. Assumption, that does not need to be a part of this process at all. More information is going to be better than not enough. And we can extract what we need. Now to your question, specifically for the self report section, the UC application as a whole, it is 100% self reported. So when you all are first applying, we do not need transcripts. We don't need test score reports. We don't need a resume. All we need is your application. UC application, strictly online, typically goes live, the beginning of August. You can work on it in August, September, October 1st is the first state that you can submit it. And then the deadline, traditionally, is November 30th, no early action, no early decision, nothing binding, just one deadline. So let me say that. But in that self report section, since you are telling us everything, it is extremely important that you have your transcript in front of you. If you have a resume or a list of activities that you've been involved in, have that in front of you, if you need test score reports, maybe if you've completed an AP exams or anything like that, have those in front of you so that when you're filling out the application, it's an easy transfer of information. You are accurate. You don't forget anything. so you're not short-changing yourself from the hard perk that you're putting in every single day. But you are right, John, we don't receive any of that upfront. So you have to be accurate, but be careful with your transcript. And I've received emails recently about this, how your transcript, however it lists your courses, whether it's the full year grade, semesters, whatever that looks like, it needs to match what you tell us in the UC application. Because what you don't want to have happen is on the back end of the process once you've admitted it, then you say, yes, I'm coming to Berkeley, that's the place for me. That's when we're going to start requesting those official final documents, your final high school transcript. Maybe you've taken classes out of local university, we're going to need that college transcript. If you take an AP exam, they're going to need that official score report at that point. And we're going to compare what you told us in the application to the official documents. If they don't match, we have a problem. And that's not the goal. Again, if we admitted to you, we want you on our campus. So we're not looking for those. And always tell us, you do not want to get anywhere near that lane of any kind of thought process that you did, something that was not per se only up and up. So please make sure that you're as accurate as possible, because we will definitely verify that information on the back end of the process. And on the application, there's a statement of integrity that you have to say, everything that I'm putting into this application, it is truthful and it is accurate. So you really have to make sure that you are as detailed as possible, because when we admit you, it is conditional. And if there are a lot of discrepancies, potentially, we will take back the offer. But again, that is not the goal. So please do your best to be as accurate as possible, filling it out because it is self-reported. Yeah, it's definitely self-reporting as you explain beautifully. And folks, you absolutely always have to show the utmost of integrity in the process. You want to be accurate because obviously it will be checked later on. Now in terms of the self-report, my recollection in terms of any GPA calculation, you actually have your own and you do not. You see the ninth grade grades. However, you don't use it in the UC calculation. And by the way, that's for the entire UC system. Is that correct, Joe? So when we do recalculate and you are exactly right, your freshman year grades, we do not factor into that calculation. That is seen as a transitional year in our process. Now, so when we're calculating the GPA, we are working with 10th and 11th grades solely. Now where ninth grade comes into play holistically, it still plays a part. We're looking at the rigor course selection. I still look to see your grades. Just to see how you've started. But again, those will not be fact in to that calculation. Now 10th and 11th grade in that calculation, typically we will calculate an unweighted GPA and a weighted GPA. What we weight are your honors level classes, AP classes, IB classes, and college level classes. And they are weighted equally. So there is no preference of which courses that you're taking that goes back to context. What's available and what are you taking? Now honors level, and this is more so I'll kind of split it for California residents. There are UC approved honors level courses that California high schools have to go through a process to have these courses validated. Those are very clear. Out of state, there are some grades given because we understand that based on your state, your district, your school, your graduation requirements, the curriculum, it's going to vary. So it's not based on the eighth of G academic course requirements that we use in the UC system, which California high schools use. It's going to be different for out of state students. So that's also part of our call process. We're looking at academic preparedness for out of state students, but that also goes back to those honors level courses courses that are if this honors level for out of state, you can select H ale, which is honors level. That's a really big question for out of state students. Can they select it if it's not UC approved? Yes, simply because we want to capture the appropriate rigor for your school. So if this is weighted at your school, we want to consider that in our process as well and waiting it. So in honors level, let me say this as well, it could be absolutely clearly if it's honors, it's honors level. But if at your school, it's it's titled advanced. Maybe it's accelerated. It's gifted. It's a ace course. Maybe it's pre AP or post AP. That's one of that questions I got this week. All of those things can be even though they're not technically honors per say, they're still weighted at your school. So honors level, I see it's kind of a catch all in designating it just to make sure that we're capturing the appropriate rigor. And of course you do AP, you'll select AP, IB and so forth. But I want to make that note in designating that, especially for out of state students, because typically that's a really big question. And again, we really want to make sure you're going back to this context conversation, ever capturing this in filling out the application. And in that saying note, for out of state students, something that a lot of students don't know, because I think the wording is still not there on the UC application. When you are filling out the application, let's say you're at your high school and let's say it's not shown. You can select more than one grading term and also more than one grading system. That it doesn't explicitly say that on the application. So that's very confusing. So to give you a great example, let's say you took your grading system is let's say zero to 100. But let's say you've taken maybe one or two classes for pass fail. That means you're going to have to select two different grading systems. You're going to have to select the zero to 100. And then there's an other option. And then the other option will allow you to type in kind of that pass fail. So that when you get to the next section of the application, you're actually filling out your courses, what your grades were, it'll give you the option for both. And saying thing for grading terms, if you've had classes that are maybe one full year, you need to select full year, but you also have some classes that are semester, you need to select full year and semester. And a lot of times that's not really clear. And I've gotten a lot of questions about that recently. So it's really fresh on my mind. So I went to put that out there as well. And that's just a good kind of really helpful kind of tip in filling out the UC application. Well, that's extremely helpful because you know, the process is very complicated also because of the different grading scales, the waiting or not waiting from all of the high schools that students are sending applications from. So a question that I get, let me give you an example, you have a high school that has 25 AP courses. However, they also have their fair share of dual enrollment. So if it's a school that is highly academic and all of a sudden you have an applicant who is taking more of the dual enrollment classes compared to AP, how do you read that? How do you read that? You know, and this is a student who is basically all A's, A pluses, but Dread decided to select just the dual enrollments as opposed to A or he's when they're coming from a school that has, I'll say 25 AP offerings. Got you. I think it really, it goes back to the context of the school and really how does the school consider those dual enrollment classes in comparison to the AP curricula? I've seen it where a lot of schools they will wait them equally in their calculations. So if they offer AP and dual enrollment, but they say, hey, we wait these at the same academic rigor, then even in our process clearly they're the same and how we calculate, but even in our holistic review, they're going to hold the same type of rigor because at the school, they're seeing equally. Now, if that school says the AP curricula at the high school is more rigorous than the dual enrollment coursework, and I've seen that too, or I've seen schools that have even, it's some type of honorable courses that they have created at the school that it's kind of college level from their standpoint, and they say, this is in our waiting, of courses, this is a more rigorous course in comparison to the dual enrollment offer that, let's say the local community college, then from our perspective, we're going to consider that distinction of rigor and say we're going to give more weight per say so that AP curriculum in comparison to the dual enrollment. So it really depends on the school and that context of us again, our being more educated about that particular school, what students are typically taken and where the rigor, again, is equal or and or more or less. So it'll still fall back to that John, and that's really important to sell for schools that if that's that is how it's structured, tell us that in the school profile because I see a lot of questions about school profiles from councils and kind of how to construct them. That is really key information in your school profile. That is very, very helpful. For the UC system, that is also something that may you may want to include in that additional comment box. That's right after the academic, the self-report academic history. That's something maybe to tell us so that we know that. So that's a really helpful information, but that's how we would view that. And even though we're it's a little different topic, but let me say this because previous to one context, something that I've seen as well, senior year, though when students are still reporting senior year, I'm going to text this just to this portion. We don't have grades. So what we are considering in senior year are course selection course rigor. So senior year is highly important. So even though that calculation that we talked about in the previous question, we're looking at 10th and 11th, 9th and 12th grade have value. 9th grade again, rigor, selection. We still looking at grades and then 12th grade, you have to finish strong. You cannot slack off. You have to finish strong and that's something that we see and I'm strong. because I'm seeing more students, even though we give instructions on this, John, I'm seeing students who are not telling us they're great. They're courses in 12th grade, they say, "I don't know what I'm taking yet." And they don't tell us what they're planning to take in 12th grade and that negatively impacts them in our process. Again, so again, something else to keep in mind, we need all four years of your courses, whether we have a grade or not. - Such incredible insight. I'm so glad I asked a question because again, it points back to the context of the high school. I love the example of again, the school that has 25 APs, but multiple dual enrollments, and it really comes to the fact of whether or not everything is weighted equally or if dual enrollment offerings are not weighted for example, but AP is, then again, you're going to evaluate that student based on the context of the high school. And I appreciate you bringing up the school profile again because it is so important for schools to be really accurate in that school profile because it can make a tremendous difference. And of course, students and families, if you're not familiar with your own high school profile, please ask your counseling department for a copy or it's usually found on the different websites. Now, Joe, what can you share about UC Berkeley's institutional priorities, including how to influence class composition from year to year? - You know, I think for us, it really always boils down to really, I think having a diverse community, that may look different based on maybe newer programs that we have, like dual degree programs that I've mentioned and wanting more individuals to take part of that. I think the key thing for us for it's reformer says, being a state institution, we have to have that ratio of in-state residents versus out-of-state. So that maintain, that has to stay. I always tell families who ask me, though, it's not so much that we're looking for, let's say, we can only emit X amount of students from, let's say the state of New York or from the state of Maryland. It's not like that. Every year we're looking at who was already on our campus, what is the ratio of in-state versus out-of-state and how do we maintain that based on the applicant pool? Where you applying from, where you applying to, the programs, there's a lot of factors that come into play. So, but maintaining that ratio is clearly a big institution for order because we are still a public institution for the state of California. We have to make a sure califery residents, that's first and foremost, as they're looking at the larger perspective of the global community and our global applicants as a whole. So that's a part of it. So I definitely don't want to gloss over that, but other than beyond that, I just think a sense of diversity, again, even with being a public state school, still diversity of geography. Where are students are coming from? And that's not only just by state. You know, that may be from urban communities, or are there rural communities represented? You have students who are coming from more suburbiant areas and so forth. In addition, we have, you know, what we call thriving initiatives at Berkeley. And so these are communities where, you know, we feel like we can always do better. We can always bolster these communities. How do we help these students find their space on our campus and again thrive? Not just at 10 Berkeley, but thrive. So we have initiatives for our Latinx students. We have one for African-American students. We have one for our Native American students and so on. So that, to me, is also part of the outreach perspective as well. Who are we out reaching to? Casting a wide net, being very cognizant of being very equitable about where we're present, where are we showing up? Can we offer virtual offerings? Because everybody not physically may not be able to come to something. So what virtual opportunities do we have for students to make sure they have access to us and we can help educate them about this process? Because we don't know what they may or may not have at their school or at a community-based organization and so forth where they're located. But I feel like that part always goes back to those kind of priorities and initiatives at Berkeley of a really building a very, very diverse, introspective, innovative class every single year. So those are some things that always come to mind. I think that's first and foremost, but I do think, like I said, it will change. I think, depending on sometimes academic programs, what are we trying to grow? Different, you know, initiatives and so forth. So I think that always stays a part of it. I think one of our newer initials has to be, is Berkeley specifically has to become an HSI Hispanic-serving institution. And so we've been working diligently, you know, to move toward that designation and we're getting very close. So that's one of the examples per se. So again, but diversity, I think, is always at the core of it. And really, what does that look like? And I love the fact that we stay true to that mission and we continue to have conversations every single year to stay like, where are we? What are we doing? What does this look like as an admission team, work with our campus partners to still to meet those priorities and show up for them every single year, to be as best possible to the institution and then support our students in that process. - Absolutely, it's very important to support your students, but of course, to support your own institution, the beautiful UC Berkeley, which by the way, transfer students are a vital part, not only of UC Berkeley, but of the entire UC system. If I remember correctly, I believe every third student that is admitted is actually a transfer student, if I'm not mistaken, is that correct? - You are right, it's a two to one ratio. And that is a middle one reward for us and that end to your initial to your previous question, transfer students are major priorities. So it's a two to one ratio. So for every two freshmen we bring in, we have to bring in one transfer. So for a freshman class of a little bit over 6000, we're bringing in around 3000 transfers every single year. And that's personally one of my favorite things about Berkeley, really the UC system, as a whole that that's a policy. That is built in to make sure that we are showing up for our transfer students. - Well, I love how you show up for your transfer students and it just goes to show that students, it's not where you start, really it's where you end in what you do with as long or once you graduate college. And I know that in California, I'm actually in awe of California because you guys really utilize your community college system, I think better than anyone from my experience for what I'm seeing. And that's why you have so many transfer students. So why is that pathway so important to Berkeley's mission and what advice would you give to transfer applicants, especially those outside of the great state of California? - Yeah, I think it's kind of built into just kind of the structure of the UC system as a whole and making sure that we have, it's already kind of built into the policy of supporting the transfer community. For us, over 90% of our students come from California community colleges. So we're still looking at the state and that's first and foremost, however, beyond that, we understand that our transfers come in that's such, I mean, just such a rich, robust world experiences, life experiences, there's a lot of our transfers, maybe even a certain age. So they have a lot of, they bring in a lot of life to Berkeley. They are parents. I have students in their 60s who come to Berkeley as transfer students who may all in the home. That's a lot of life experience. They raise children. We have students who are part of our underground scholars program who may have been formerly incarcerated. So they have been system impacted. And this is a second chance for them to find their footing and find their place and contribute and they do. We have our Hope Scholars program which is students coming from more foster care systems. That also plays a part, kind of sometimes with the transfer community as well. So it's really just such an integral part of our campus, which is why it maintains a major priority. Separate from just the policy standpoint of the kind of California master plan and what that looks like and making sure that we have representation throughout the state whether first you are or transfer students, but it has been proven year after year what our transfer population does to uphold and really push forth the vision of Berkeley. So and for us, I would say one of the things I always stress to my transfer applicants. I seem to have had a lot either who applied as a first student from out of state and I would say especially those students may be able to go back to the pandemic who may have even chosen to stay home just because there's a lot going on and they may have chosen to stay home to work, to help at home do certain things, maybe take some classes out of community college, it was cheaper. Now their applying as a transfer student. So what I always tell those students is that the process, the application is the same per se, it still leaves the application, but filling it out is going to be very different because we're trying to acquire some different information and our review process is different. When we get to the transfer process, we are very much and that will be called comprehensive review where we are definitely looking for minimum requirements. Whereas for the holistic review for first year applicants, there are not necessarily minimum requirements. If you apply, we will review you holistically. But for transfers, it's really understanding that there's a minimum, typically a minimum unit amount. So typically 60 semester units and or 90 quarter units. There's a GPA requirement. Now that GPA requirement will vary by college at Berkeley. So what they ask for in letters and signs is going to be different, let's say, than engineering, which may actually like a 3.5. And then beyond that, there are journal education requirements. So we have what we call our seven course paddle, where you know, you're reading in composition courses, your quantitative reason, your math courses, your language other than English courses and so forth. So the journal education, and that also will vary by college. So it starts with applicants understanding the world. key elements. Do I have the the semesters? Do the semester amount? Granted, in those, those units can come from when you were high school. We don't care about that part of it, but you need to know the minimum amount. They need to know the GPA requirement because a lot of time suits may not know that and then the journal educational requirements. What does that look like? So it really takes strength and you do as a freshman, it's just different. The research. You gotta take the time and really go through it. We have info virtual sessions for transfer, prospective transfer students. Join us. That's a great way to learn more about it. Then when we get beyond those minimum requirements, we get into the pre-Brequisite requirements. That's a really important deal. So even though you get kind of in the door with the minimum requirements to be competitive, then we're looking at those additional steps. That's first and foremost, are you prepared to declare your major? So can you come to Berkeley and declare that political science major or declare that's a college major or mechanical engineering major? That means you should have already done the work at your current institution. So that's the same for out-of-state students. The biggest piece I think that makes this portion more difficult for out-of-state students, John, is that because the most of our transfer students are coming from California Community Colleges, where we have articulation agreements with every single community college in the state of California, that is very clearly listed. If you take this class, this transfers, this needs that requirement. So there's a very clear guideline. So to go point earlier about our process, that's what makes it very easy. We've really taken a lot of the guesswork out of it. You just got to do the work and know what you got to do. Out-of-state, we don't have those articulation agreements. So if you're going, you know, if you're trying to transfer from, let's say I'm thinking DC area schools, let's say you want to transfer from what's say in American University and understanding, you know, what courses would transfer from American to Berkeley? You know, if I take this class, and I want a major in public science, is the content similar? Is that going to transfer? So I think that's usually the biggest, I think, obstacle a lot of times, but even within that, there are ways to do that. We have one thing I've mentioned is called assist.org. That shows all of our articulated courses with California and community colleges. However, as I tell students from out of state, use that as your guide, mom. If you know that at Berkeley City College, that intro to psychology, we'll transfer to Berkeley more than life. If you're taking intro to psychology at American University, that'll transfer. American is accredited, so we don't have to worry about that, but more than likely that is going to be a course that would transfer. And if you're looking to stay, let's say psychology and intro to psych is one of your core prerequisites, you're good. You know, so it's really more of that comparison. And I think sometimes students don't take the time to really fully understand the process, John. I think we'll come from out of state to really be as competitive as they could be, because they're still thinking first year application process, which is different. They also don't know that we're not looking at what you've done in high school once you reply as a transfer student. We're looking at what you have done post high school graduation. So what are you doing in college? What have you been involved in? A lot of our transfers are working. So work is important. You may be running your own business. We have a lot of military. All of those things are valuable. Again, so it's post high school. And I think a lot of students will tell us about what they did in high school. They don't tell us what they've done since high school. That also will make a very big difference. So some things to keep in mind. Definitely a lot of great things to keep in mind. The distinction when you're applying as a transfer, you're not really interested anymore two years after high school graduation in terms of what they did as high schoolers. But what did you do during that time at the community college, for example? And, John, you have worked with, I would say probably tens of thousands of students and families over all these years throughout your career. What's one question or topic? You wish more people would bring up during their interaction with you or your admissions team. You know, I think and this is going to sound well, it's not going to sound a little weird, because it's something that we don't consider, but it's still a big question is testing. I think the testing policy question is still really is a major one. And I say this because I do a lot of panels. So I'll sit on panels with other colleagues from other institutions who maybe test optional. They may be test required. They may be test free. But literally, I've had parents take up about 70% of the panel with asking about testing and they don't ask us about anything else. And so, when students, so when parents come to me and families, the question to me when they learn that we're test free, their question is usually like, what else do you guys consider? Like, and I'm like, well, I'm assuming that your child is much more than a test score. So, and even if when we did require test scores, that was not the determining factor. I can promise you that. So, I'm so my thing is what else do we consider? So I'll always tell families, please get beyond the testing question. Yes, you should understand that you need to understand the policy for that respective school so that you are best prepared. Absolutely. But there are so many other factors that are considered in the admissions process, especially for let's say a Berkeley or the UC system where we're not looking at a standardized test, what other things are we looking at for you to be competitive within our process? So I always want students for families news for any admission process, any institution, please move beyond just testing. Understand it, know it, go on. What else do we look for? What kind of academic, you know, preparation should you have? So when we talked about context, we'd be talking about a lot through this conversation. What does that mean for that school? You know, what other things are they valuing when it comes to extracurriculars? Leadership. What other things in addition to demonstrated interest is that something that they consider demonstrated interest? What can that look like? Do they work, you know, do you need to do a college visit? Do they look at that? Let us recommendation, who can write them? When are they required? Is there an interview involved? There's so many other parts of this process, which I think can make the process quite complicated a lot of times. I think our jobs are trying to simplify it as best possible, but it's a lot of information to take in. So I always want families to move beyond just testing. That's just one part and a lot of family seeing to very much so probably more parents and students to a certain extent really seeing to hold tight to testing being the one key thing that's going to secure admission to an institution. Where most of the time that's not it. There's so many other things that you need to be concerned with. So really just move beyond testing. Ask that, understand the policy and definitely, but make sure that you're asking questions about all of the other parts to make up the admission process. And then, of course, the institution and the thing that you value as a family besides location, all the other key things that are very important. It's interesting that you bring up the testing because you're absolutely right. It's almost as if people don't believe it when you say you test free, which the UC system is or squeeze, let's say that there are test optional and the advice that I always give with the test optional nature of college admissions is look, there's this thing called the common data set. So you could write common data set, add the name of whichever college or university throughout the country or beyond. And all of a sudden, you'll find a document, an extensive document that lists a lot, a lot of information, including testing percentages, you know, the number of students that enroll that submitted an SAT or an ACT. So again, my advice there for students and families is type in name of school, common data set, and you know, you'll see the information right there. Joe, as I knew, this was a phenomenal conversation. You truly are a gem. Unfortunately, it does bring us to that last question, which is what are your top three pieces of advice that you would provide students and their families getting ready for the college admissions process? Yeah. I will say first definitely start early. Well, with your planning, I think one thing that has been very encouraging for me the last few years is I'm seeing younger students attend college fairs or high school that are offering programming for the sophomores of sometimes freshmen to engage with us earlier in the high school experience. So I feel like that is a major benefit. The earlier that you can start, the better, that way you can start understanding what this process is, what we're seeking in the different colleges, you as a young person and family can start thinking about what things are important to financial limitations or what can we afford, you know, and you have plenty of time to do it. So I feel like the early you can do what the better you can really navigate this process so that you start learning the right questions to ask that make the most sense for you. When you go to college fairs, you got a list based on the last one, you like, okay, I've got that answer. I really need to know that or based on that question. Let me ask this the next time when I talk to college, to talk to college admission professionals and so forth. So start early that also includes working with your high school counselors, working with them. They have a process, get to know them. So they're early that I think that families can start this process, the better so that you all feel empowered in navigating this process. So when it's time to apply on your senior year, you all are good to go. You have a realistic list of colleges, not 30, preferably, say it or so, but you are ready to go. And you've in students, you feel secure in applying. So start early also lean on your support network. I kind of touched upon that also already. That is why you have your college counselors. They are the professionals. They know this stuff. of lean on, you know, teachers who may be a part of the process, if you need lots of recommendation and so forth, if you have a community-based organization in your area that you may work with that may do everything from helping you write your essays, taking you on college tours, you know, finding, understanding financial aid, what does that look like? These are the professionals around you. This is your village. Please lean into that. That is one of the biggest things that tells students all the time. Have you talked to your college counselor? What did they tell you? Are you taking the class that they've suggested? When do you go in there? Do you look for scholarships? They are there. So please lean on your network. They are the professionals in your life. In addition to us, you talk to it in admissions, but we work in conjunction with your counselors to best support you all. So please lean in and take full advantage of your village. And of course, that automatically is parents. But parents as well, they are there as well. You all are part of leaning into talking to counselors and so forth. As a family, that is your network to support and talk to counselors and CBO partners and so forth and CBOB community-based organizations and so forth. So please take advantage of that. And finally, please do not let this process take over your lives. Mental health is a real thing. There's a lot of things going on. There's a lot of positive things going on every single day. This is just one of them. And so I never want fans to let this take over the entire high school process where everything you do is related to college admissions or as a student, everything you do is to kind of bolster, per se your resume. Pick things that are fun. Do things that bring you joy. That is really what's going to help move you through this process, help you enjoy it and still find the right place for you. So while we typically, a lot of times my colleagues and I say, pick a day of the week, pick a certain time of that day, maybe it's Thursday at six o'clock. And you will allow it an hour, maybe two hours at the most. That is your time to talk about college admissions, colleges that you checked out, where are you in the process, whatever that may be. And then after that, let it go. All right. And then you move on with your lives and do other things. So I always want to say, please don't let this process take over your lives. And I think that'll help it be fun. This should be a fun process. This should be an exciting process. So please hold tight to that. Well, those are tremendous pieces of advice. I can't thank you enough. Number one, for being one of my mentors, a friend and truly a dear colleague. I appreciate you more than you'll ever know. It's always great to see you at NACAC. It's always great to sit down and have a conversation with you. And I'm so happy as I know that this conversation is going to help so many students and their families. By the way, regardless if they're applying to UC Berkeley or not, you truly are amazing, Joe. Thank you so much for being here today. We're so very welcome. Always a privilege. It's our pleasure and just one last thing to say to everyone out there. Good luck with the college search. Take care, all, and best wishes. Thank you for joining us on this episode of the CAP, the college admissions process podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. If you did, please don't forget to tell a friend and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and wherever you listen to your podcasts. I am your host, John DeRontane, and I look forward to seeing you on the next episode of the CAP. 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