Speaker 1Hi there. Welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud podcast, the show where we get real about mental health and addiction. I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for help. Send me a message on all social media platforms at recoveringoutloudpod or by email at recoveringoutloudpod at gmail.com. You are no longer alone. Thanks so much, Melanie, for coming on. I appreciate you. So you are currently in recovery and you're also, you work at Canadian Addiction Treatment Center, CATC. Do you want to describe a little bit about what you do first and maybe how you got into that role?
Speaker 2Sure. Yeah, absolutely. So like you said, I'm in recovery myself. I used opioids as a teenager, ended up getting addicted to Oxycontin in kind of the height of the opioid epidemic in the early 2000s. This was not a great time, not a great time. I wouldn't recommend it. So I ended up, because of my experiences with addiction and homelessness and a number of other things, I decided to become a social worker. And I actually had really no intention of working specifically in addictions. I wanted to work with youth. I wanted to work with youth who had experienced abuse or homelessness. And addiction kind of comes along with that, but that was never really my actual intended focus. I ended up taking a job at CATC in their virtual outpatient program at the beginning of the pandemic. And I was really excited. I was really excited to be part of that. I was really excited to be part of that. I was at the beginning of the pandemic, mostly just because I was looking for something extra to do on the side and ended up really, really liking it. And I found that it was just kind of a niche that worked well for me. I was able to use my experience to be able to help other people and it was really great. And apparently they thought I was doing pretty well too, because they've ended up promoting me into the position of Director of Clinical Programs. And now I oversee all of the clinical services that are delivered through our three inpatient facilities and our one virtual
Speaker 1outpatient program. Awesome. So that's Trafalgar is one of them, Thousand Islands, and I always
Speaker 2forget the third one. Greenstone. Greenstone. Where's Greenstone? Zimbabwe, Muskoka. Muskoka.
Speaker 1Okay. Awesome. What was that like working through the pandemic in addiction? I mean, that was not a fun time for a lot of us. I was somehow managed to stay sober through that. I still don't really know how I did it, but what was that like for you? Yeah, it was a wild time for sure,
Speaker 2especially because in His Infinite Wisdom, the Premier of Ontario decided that beer stores and liquor stores were an essential service. So a lot of people had an awful lot of time to go out and get themselves into trouble. So it was really interesting, especially making the switch to doing like virtual therapy, because before then I had always worked in person. I had never done virtual programming before. So it was really interesting. And we found that even though there were lots of challenges to it, it was really interesting to be able to do that. And I think that people had a much harder time staying sober in a virtual program than they would when they were in an abstinence-based inpatient program for very obvious reasons. But we also found that it made the services a lot more accessible and people who otherwise wouldn't come to treatment ended up getting like treatment from us. So it was really rewarding in that way too. But yeah, it was wild.
Speaker 1It was a wild time. How do you discern between whether somebody would benefit from virtual versus inpatient? Like what's, how do you, what are the kind of metrics or things that you look at?
Speaker 2Well, the very first thing is that if a person requires detox, they can't come to a virtual program or at the very least, they're going to have to do their own separate detox first. You can't be detoxing while you're in a virtual program. And really the only other like real requirement is that you have to be able to stay sober on your own during groups because you can't show up like intoxicated to any of your individual sessions. And so I think that's a really important part of it. So really like that's, that's kind of it. Those are the big determining factors. If you need a detox, you're going to have to go somewhere inpatient or to a hospital. You can't detox on your own in your house or you shouldn't anyways, it's ill-advised. And if you can stay sober, then you're, you can be a good fit for virtual treatment. Also things like just having a safe place to live, you know, all of that kind of stuff and the available technology, but really like that's it.
Speaker 1Do you find that a lot of people sort of make the connection that maybe outpatient, like I'll try outpatient because I'm not ready to commit to, I've been to three rehabs and let me tell you, like I did not have a good experience looking back now. Of course it was something I needed in my life, but while I was there it was tough, right? It was hard. I needed it. It saved my life. I guess my question is, do you find that people start with outpatient and never sort of, no, I need to be in, in treatment. And that's the path for me. Do you find that happens?
Speaker 2It does happen. Sometimes there's a lot of people who will call in, um, like to our admissions line and they really don't want to come to inpatient because really people don't generally, it's not fun. It's not a vacation. You're away from your family. You have to commit to it. Um, it costs a lot of money. And so a lot of times people really don't want to come to inpatient. That's their last resort. So when they hear that we have a virtual outpatient programs, they're like, yeah, sign me up and let me know if you need to come to inpatient. And so I'm like, okay, I'm going to come to inpatient. And so I'm like, okay, I'm going to sign you up and let me know if you need to come to inpatient. So yeah, like that is honestly the default. A lot of the times people don't want to commit to inpatient, but it's really what they need. So our admissions team does a really good job of being able to talk people through that and help them to understand the benefits of inpatient treatment.
Speaker 1Yeah. Yeah. And, um, I mean, as I'm sure, you know, and I was the master of excuses myself, but I have a job, I have kids, right? All these things. And it's like, yeah, but you know, sometimes you wish you could just show them, like you wouldn't have any of that you're, you know, your sobriety has to come first in my experience, or I can't be a husband. I can't be a dad. Right. But it's, it's very difficult in my experience to make that connection, especially with new people that are just coming in. Um, I mean, I was stubborn myself, right? So it's, it's difficult to show somebody their future, but, uh, I mean, maybe it's not always the case, right? Uh, what are you finding? People are coming in with a lot now in terms of class of drugs. Are you seeing a lot of gambling addiction now with the, the newest, um, you know, uh, the legalization of, of sports betting in, in Ontario? What are you seeing? Yeah, we see like a real diversity
Speaker 2of the things that people are coming in with, but we are definitely seeing a lot more complexities. Rarely are we having people coming in with straightforward, like, uh, you know, I drank too often. There's some sort of comorbid mental health issue going on as well. Or we are seeing, as you were saying with the gambling, a lot more, uh, behavioral addictions as well. So it's not just, I came in because I drank too much. It's, I came in because I drank too much. And then I started doing some cocaine with it. And then I was having a really good time doing that. So now I'm getting into gambling. Um, so like we are seeing a lot more complexities like that and yeah, gambling is definitely on an upswing as well. Um, and just as things become more normalized to see a lot more of them to sex and love addiction is something that's also something we're really seeing a lot more of now, uh, particularly among people who also use like stimulants and stuff as
Speaker 1well. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of, um, heightened sexual desires with, with, with the stimulants. Yeah. I, I definitely, um, you know, I've heard about a lot about that in the recovery community. I talked to a lot of new, uh, you know, uh, addicts and alcoholics that are trying to make the, um, the decision to better, you know, to, to stop doing, what they're doing and, and take a different approach to the way they manage their feelings and the way they manage, you know, their lives really. And that, that comes up a lot, right? Um,
Speaker 2I hear that a lot. So yeah, often people don't even recognize that that's something that's a problem for them until they come in and start talking about it. And something I'll credit our team with a lot at CATC is that like just the, the non-judgment that they're able to have for clients, um, really kind of opens that up. Like we're not here just to talk about your substance abuse problem. We can talk about all of the problems that are going on and often things like sex addiction will surface within those conversations. So we're rarely having people come in saying I'm struggling with sex. Instead, they'll come in with the substance abuse issue and then end up kind of realizing that there's something else going on here as well. And there's
Speaker 1an opportunity to address it. Yeah. Sort of this, uh, peeling back the layers of the onion, right? Exactly. Yeah. It's certainly, I'm still doing that, you know, but, uh, that was a big part of rehab was able to, my treatment center experience was able to, to do that along with army, with the tools to deal with life on life's terms. Right. Um, in your opinion, what do you think the, the people that relapse and then the people that go on to, to put together some, you know, solid long-term sobriety, what do you think the two differences are with the people that like, why, why in your opinion, do people relapse and why do they, what, what a
Speaker 2long-term sobriety? Yeah. I mean, there's, there's lots of different factors. Some of it is just readiness. Um, a lot of times people are kind of pushed to come into treatment when maybe they're not quite ready. ready yet and that's why we often see people coming for multiple stays maybe the first time they were coming in because of some external factor you know my wife or my husband was going to divorce me if I didn't do something so I'm just here to appease them and obviously there's a lot more risk of relapse when a person is not fully committed to it another thing that I would say is really important is like family support family and friends because addiction is really a family issue and it's a whole issue that the entire family has to deal with because there's reasons that a person became addicted to something and so we have to address kind of that root cause so if the family's also not getting their own help they're really not able to support their loved one once they return home so it's really important that everyone in the family is getting help in order to set that person up for long-term success yeah one of the hardest things that my
Speaker 1mother and my wife really had to come to was in the beginning of the pandemic when we were at least now they're they're accepted is that you know they played a role they didn't cause it they can't cure it and they can't control it right but they there was a role in the family dynamic that hey maybe you need to get some some of your own recovery to your own support too that was that was a hard my therapist always says she's in recovery as well she always says that her biggest struggle is getting the family members to buy in and do their own healing their own recovery right
Speaker 2yeah absolutely and and often we see that among lots of family members too like i come from a whole family of alcoholics um and unfortunately my my parents and my sister are not in recovery and so i don't have much of a relationship with them now because they really don't understand why i'm not engaging in in that stuff anymore um so it is really unfortunate when people don't recognize that they played a role or that they may even be struggling with an addiction themselves
Speaker 1how do you deal with that that's i feel like a lot of people have to deal like how do you deal with um a loved one in addiction in your life i mean it's it's sad and i've definitely grieved the
Speaker 2relationship with my mother in particular um because it's something that i really wanted was to have a good relationship with her but it's just not something that's achievable right now and so yeah i've grieved that relationship a lot um and of course did my own therapy as well so that's something that um you have to come to an understanding that some people are just not willing to recover and it's not within my control to change that
Speaker 1what would you say is maybe what's the most challenging part of your role your job and what
Speaker 2is um your favorite part about it that's a great question um i'd say the most challenging part of my job is probably really boring um i i do a lot of like the policy level work so i don't i don't get to spend a whole lot of time with the actual clients anymore instead i'm on the back end reviewing all of the policy and and i'm like i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't and like it's a really important job and i think that it's one that i am probably uniquely well suited to do because i did work frontline for so long as well and i have seen the devastating impacts of poor policy um like in in particular i used to be a shelter worker and as a result of one of our policies following one of our policies somebody died and so i think that it's incredibly important and i take a great amount of responsibility in making sure that our policies are appropriate and that they're being followed and carried out really well but like it's also really boring and i don't i don't love it so i would say that that's probably the most challenging part of my job is just getting through the paperwork every day but the most rewarding thing is even though i work totally remote and i don't actually get a whole lot of contact with clients anymore i do still get to go on site occasionally and i do i do still get to run groups as well um as a part of training our staff so i really love being able to go on site and still run a really great psycho ed group or process group um and really see the benefits of that programming and the way that people react to it so that's definitely my favorite part of the job is still just doing some of the frontline clinical work love it what's uh what's a group
Speaker 1that you like to run or that you think is really beneficial because i used to love those those
Speaker 2process groups not all of them but i used to love them yeah i love process groups i love them so much um i i don't particularly like working from a script and a lot of people don't like working from a script and a lot of psycho ed groups are really scripted and they have to be nobody can memorize all of that information and so like they have to be pretty scripted there's worksheets whatever um so like they're good they have good information but i love a good process group i love it when the group really starts vibing and everyone's able to have a great discussion and you can see when people start to have breakthroughs in those groups so i think that is the funnest and most rewarding one it's challenging too people have like a lot of emotional responses to it but like that's the way it is work that has to be done in treatment to see a real change and so i love seeing that happen i
Speaker 1love a good process group awesome yeah i agree and sometimes they go in completely different directions than you assume they would and that's when yeah the magic really happens you know the lights kind of turn on in someone's eyes um yeah i love that that's one of my favorite parts about recovery is working with other addicts and uh seeing that light kind of come on and knowing today that i didn't cause that but i was able to be um sort of a conduit you know of what i call my higher power and into carrying the message of recovery right yeah yeah i love
Speaker 2being in those groups as well too because you take a bit of a different role as a facilitator in a process group right like i'm not there lecturing everyone i'm not instructing people i'm not teaching them something instead we're all just learning from each other and so i feel like it's appropriate for me to also put some of myself into those groups too so clients that i work with they know i'm in recovery that's something that i'll share during those process groups as well i'll use my own experience to be able to help people with making those breakthroughs and so i really like that as well i feel like it's a really unique way as a clinician to be able to work with people is sharing my own recovery yeah sort of adds that uh
Speaker 1that that you know new added layer of of trust and you know the lived experience yeah it's like i didn't suffer for nothing right um you know there's a piece of recovery literature we were just talking about this before i jumped on here with another uh fellow in recovery where it's like you know one day my struggles my trials my tribulations will be of maximum use to others right i will be able to use it it'll be an asset going forward and uh when i first came in if you told me that i would have screamed in your face and told you to f off right but i've found that to be you know
Speaker 2extremely true today yeah i've definitely found that to be the case as well it's it's incredibly rewarding um to have someone be able to say that my experiences have positively impacted them uh still would have preferred to not go through the experience of addiction but at least if i had to do it like coming out on the other side and having it be worth something um i think it's
Speaker 1really meaningful yeah um i want to talk about modalities of recovery because this has been coming up a lot for me lately especially um now that i've um you know i i try to keep anonymity and you know respect the principles of the program that i'm in um but i find that there's a lot of people out there at least on the internet and i know this is dangerous but that that kind of don't really vibe well with the main modality of recovery which is 12 step um and when i say main i just mean the most popular i i think um what are the different modalities of recovery that you sort of arm people with when they go to they leave treatment and um yeah i guess just talk about what what do you offer for people what are what are the different modalities
Speaker 2yeah so we include 12 step programming um in our facilities as well i think it is really important that people be exposed to that because for the people it works for it works really really well and then for some people it just doesn't um i did not do well with 12 step that was the first thing i tried when when i was looking to do something about my addiction and i had a terrible experience um probably because the group that i went to was in my extremely small town and the facilitator running it was celebrating i think his 10th birthday and i was like oh my god i'm gonna have to do this and i was like oh my god i'm gonna have to do this and i was like oh my god i'm gonna have to do this and i was like oh my god i'm gonna have to do this and i was like oh my god i'm gonna have to do this and i think his tenure shift that day i was like my friend i saw you smoking crack last weekend so like it just didn't it didn't resonate because it didn't feel real probably because it wasn't um so 12 step it's great it's great for some people it's not great for everyone so we use a variety of different things um one of the big things that we do for people when they leave our programming is we we do our own aftercare so we continue um offering group programming and individual counseling and we do a lot of things that we do for people when they leave our programming to people for at least six months um after they finish treatment with us and we find that that's really important for people to be able to translate the skills that they learned in treatment back into their home environment otherwise we're just plopping them down in the exact same situation that they were in before see you later yeah good luck yeah yeah i mean it's
Speaker 1it's really easy i always say this but it's really easy to stay sober in treatment from my experience um it's when i leave that that's when the work begins and and i get out of that bubble and you know life starts to happen how are you going to cope with it now buddy right yeah um what about um yeah what about like so what are other recovery programs uh outside of yours that people can jump into that are uh you know something like smart recovery or i don't know if refuge recovery
Speaker 2is another one what are some of those yeah smart recovery is a really good option for people who kind of aren't into the whole higher power aspect of 12-step programming um so it's a really good option for people um and i think it's a really good option for people to be able to do that so we found that that especially vibes a little bit better with um like indigenous clients who just really don't care for, um, you know, the, the more not religious, it's not meant to be religious, but it's often interpreted as like the religious aspect of 12 step programming. Um, but like the other things that we look for people to get into is it's typically like behavioral therapy based programs. So often we'll find that people who had a significant amount of trauma and that's what led them to their addiction, they might want to leave and do a DBT program. Um, and you can do this privately or like CAMH has a DBT program that has a massively long wait list, um, because it's very good. Um, but like anything behavioral therapy based, it's going to be really helpful for people as well. So we encourage them to continue on with their own treatment afterwards.
Speaker 1The, and so I, I, you know, you brought up CAMH, um, which is, I don't know, are they full, they're fully government funded or partially? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Can you talk to, uh, I guess the biggest, uh, I always try to tell people I'm like, because they always, you know, people, people ask me is government funded good, right? Is it good treatment in Canada? And I never like to say it's good or bad, right? It's just different in your experience. Um, what is the major difference between private funded treatment and public funded government funded? Yeah,
Speaker 2frankly, it's weightless. Um, no matter where you go, what program you go into, whether it's private or public, the, the specific approach that they use in that facility or, or that program is either going to work for you or it won't. They're all very, very different. Um, and so you can't like really objectively say like for profit is different than government funded in these ways. Um, they're all based on, on different things and they're going to be successful with some people and unsuccessful with others. Really the biggest difference is that, uh, the government funded stuff often has really, really long wait lists. Like the program I referenced through CAMH, um, huge wait lists for their DBT program. Um, even seeing a psychiatrist, like you can see a psychiatrist through CAMH for free. It's wonderful. Um, but you're going to have to wait. And so it's not, it's not ideal for people who are looking to get help right now. So that's the big advantage of any of the, the for-profit places is that, you know, if you have the money for it, you can come and get treatment as soon as you want it. You can pick up the phone today and talk to our admissions line and be at our facility. Honestly, probably still right now, because it's like two 30 in the afternoon as we're recording this. If you called us right now at two 30 in the afternoon, we could admit you tonight. So, I mean, that's, that's a huge advantage to people who really,
Speaker 1really want help right now. Um, how do you, I always, I always wonder this with, with, um, you know, social workers, therapists, uh, that have the, the, their own recovery programs. How do you sort of separate the two? Um, because, you know, you get a lot of recovery out of, out of parts of your job, right. That probably benefit you. I would assume in your recovery, how do you sort of separate the two? Like I, I, I need to practice my recovery over here and then I have my work and professional over here.
Speaker 2Yeah, it is really important to keep those separate because as much as I said, you know, just a few minutes ago that when I'm running process groups, I like to bring a bit of myself into it. I'm still a facilitator. So like, I shouldn't be relying on that group to support my recovery. That's not the place for it. I'm getting paid to be there. Um, it's, it's not for me. So as much as I received benefits from it, it can't be my only thing. It can't be what I'm relying on. Um, so I, I continue my own therapy as well. And I have my own routines, my own, uh, things that I do to maintain my own peace in order to be able to continue my recovery as well. So they are, they do have to be very separate, uh, because my job is my job and I have to make sure I'm prioritizing the clients and then in my own home life, then, you know, that's my time to
Speaker 1be able to practice my recovery. Yeah. I love that. And, and that leads me into my next question too. And what is, what are your daily essentials for staying sober?
Speaker 2A healthy routine is honestly the biggest thing for me. Um, that's when I would really go kind of off the rails is when my routine is no good. Um, if I allow myself to, you know, stop going to work, um, if I let myself not do, you know, daily exercise, if I was, you know, just willing to start eating out in pubs and stuff again, like that's, that's when my recovery is not going to be going so well anymore. So for me, it was the establishment of a daily routine. And that's what my maintenance is for being able to stay sober. Obviously when I was in really early recovery, it was a lot more than that, you know, therapy that I had to do avoiding certain locations, a lot of relapse prevention stuff. Um, but now it's more just maintaining the healthy lifestyle that I've built, but I've been in recovery for about 15 years. So I've had some
Speaker 1time to build that recovery routine. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, another thing that keeps coming up for me, um, is these sort of, I almost want to say shortcuts, but they're not shortcuts. Um, like med medically assisted medication assisted, uh, modalities to get sober. I E, uh, I don't know, you're seeing a lot of studies about Ozempic and cravings, helping that, you know, helping alcohol cravings, um, as well as, uh, naltrexone for being, you know, a suitable option for a lot of people. I guess my question is, what, uh, are you seeing? That's been effective in terms of medication to assist people. And what, what do you think the future holds for that? What do you think that looks like? I think there's great potential for,
Speaker 2you know, medication to be really helpful in people's recovery. Um, I think the problem is when we start seeing it as a solution instead of a tool, like anti-craving medication is definitely going to be helpful for you and your recovery. If that's something you need, if, if cravings are the biggest reason that you relapse and yeah, anti-craving medication is going to be a really good idea for you, but it can't be the only thing. If you're relying on that medication, then I mean, what happens if you're, uh, if your amount runs out and you can't get a refill right away, you've got to have tools to be able to continue that recovery. So it has to be seen as that, as just a tool, um, and not the entirety of your recovery. I think that's where we got into a lot of trouble with methadone as well. We've had all of those methadone clinics open up and people started seeing methadone as being the replacement. For any sort of opioid addiction. And then we just had a bunch of people addicted to methadone, which was also not a great drug. Um, so I think it, we just need to see these things as a tool. Um, methadone is not bad. Methadone clinics are not bad, but it's not super helpful when we start seeing it as a solution.
Speaker 1Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, the term liquid handcuffs comes up cause I've heard that from, I've never, you know, I never, um, struggled with, I never really liked opioids too much. Thank God. Um, I was more of a stimulant guy, but, um, you know, from the people that I know that have been addicted to opiates and have gone on the methadone program, I've heard that it's the most difficult drug to come off of, um, and to get clean from the withdrawals are really bad too.
Speaker 2Yeah. I'm glad I never relied on that one. I guess luckily and also unluckily at the same time, again, I was in a really small community. Um, and that just wasn't available. Like that wasn't a drug that we had. And so, yeah, I, I never ended up on methadone because it just wasn't available to me.
Speaker 1How, how did you, um, kick opiates? How did you get sober? What did that look like? I wanna jump back a little bit.
Speaker 2Yeah. You know, I don't think my recovery journey was the typical one that people go down. So I, I really didn't get a whole lot of help at first. Um, I, I was addicted to opioids as a teenager. I ended up being, um, expelled from high school and, you know, just kind of spiraled into homelessness and just a bunch of other really problematic behaviors. Um, and, and I don't know, it was just some determination, I think, to get my life back on track. I saw all of my friends kind of moving on with their lives and doing things that I wanted to be able to do. Um, and, and I just kind of lost access, uh, to my dealer as well, because I ended up moving to a new city to, you know, try to do a little bit better for myself and I didn't have it anymore. Um, so as much as that is ill-advised to detox at home on your own, that's what I did. I detoxed on the floor of my apartment. Um, and then I ended up re-enrolling in school and got a bunch of help through there too. Um, therapy, I had really wonderful guidance counselor, uh, who helped me a lot and I got a job and I got back on track. Um, and then I did years and years of trauma therapy, um, which was kind of the, the most helpful thing, because that was one of the reasons that I really uh, got involved in opioids because I was in pain. Um, and then I went back to therapy and, and then I was in pain. I was in pain from the trauma that I had experienced and it just kind of made some strange logical sense that I'm in pain. So I should just take a painkiller and it'll make everything better. Uh, and it did until it didn't anymore. Yeah. Um, when, when life sort of happens
Speaker 1to you today and you know, you get, you get into, I'm sure you've had your fair share of adversity over the 15 years. Um, how do you, how do you get through that? Like, what do you, what do you do to sort of navigate adversity today? Well, for me, it's just not an option to go
Speaker 2back to opioids. Now. Um, I have a, I have a three-year-old daughter and that's just not something that I can, you know, that I could possibly sacrifice is my relationship with her in order to go back to that. And so at this point, I rely on the skills that I learned, um, in the therapy that I did. And I also have a really great supportive group of friends. It's like I said, family support is one of the really good indicators of whether or not a person will be successful in recovery. And I don't have that, um, because my family's not in recovery. So instead, I've replaced that with a really excellent group of friends who hold me accountable and who are there for me. So that's really what I do. It's a combination of me not being willing to sacrifice the things that I work for and also a really great group of people who hold me accountable and make sure that I'm using my skills to be able to stay sober.
Speaker 1Yeah, I love that. I couldn't agree more. The recovery community for me has been so essential. And that's why when I started this podcast, you know, the main goal is to stay sober myself. Every time I sit down with somebody in recovery, even somebody that's not, you know, just working on themselves and not in recovery, I get so much. I learn so much out of how to cope and how to, you know, deal. And also when I'm listening to someone else, I'm not thinking about Anthony for that, you know, amount of time, which is a beautiful thing, right? What? If somebody's listening right now, and they have a loved one that, you know, can't seem to put together some time of sobriety recovery, can't stop using drugs, can't stop drinking. What's some really important advice that they could get in terms of how to deal with a loved one in addiction?
Speaker 2I would really recommend to that person that they receive their own support. And from someone who really understands addiction as well. So, you know, you can go to just any therapist, but not. Just any therapist is going to know anything about addiction. It's not actually something I don't know if people know this. It's not actually something that you're automatically taught in school. I had in my undergraduate degree, when I did my undergraduate social work degree, there was one option for an addictions course, but it was an elective and was a very popular elective. So I didn't even get into it. None of my formal education in social work has included addictions treatment. That was something that, you know, from my own personal experience, and also just the training I did on my own outside of school, is what made me able to be able to help people who are in addiction. And so I would say that that's what the family members really need, because they need to understand how they're contributing to their loved one's addiction. Are they enabling? Do they have unclear boundaries? What are they doing? Because they can only address the things that are within their own control. Yeah. To be able to force their loved one to get sober, but they can certainly work on the things that they are doing to contribute to it and also receive their own support as well, because it's hard. It's hard to watch someone you love going through addiction. So that's the biggest thing that I would recommend is that they seek their own support from a person who is specialized in addictions.
Speaker 1What's the difference, in your opinion, between enabling and supporting?
Speaker 2It's such a fine line. Like, it is such a fine line. And it's hard to know. It's hard to know when you've crossed that line. Because often we see, like, financial stuff is something that can cross the line very easily into enabling. So, like, what's the difference between making sure your loved one is safe and enabling them to continue their addiction? And it's a different line for everyone. And so, I mean, it's something that they have to determine on their own. And a lot of it is whether or not the person is now reliant on you for your addiction. So asking yourself, if I didn't give them... This thing, this money, this support, this whatever, would they be able to engage in their addiction? And if the answer is no, then you're enabling them.
Speaker 1I love that. Yeah, it's pretty, it's a lot easier to understand when you're, when you look at it in a kind of, you know, black and white context, right? Am I preventing them from experiencing the natural consequences of their addiction, right? That was the way I was taught. And if you can, yeah, if you can say, yes, I'm preventing the natural consequences, then in some degree, I might be enabling them.
Speaker 2Yeah, I would agree with that. 100%.
Speaker 1So, okay, so my loved one has a problem. They've agreed to go to a treatment center. Where do I start? How do, what do I look for in a treatment center? Where do I go from here?
Speaker 2Yeah, there's lots of different options out there. So, I mean, the first thing they can do is just call them, pick up the phone and get some information about... the treatment that that particular facility offers. And it's going to look different from everyone. Can you afford it? It's one. If you're going to lose your house in order to send your loved one for treatment, then that's probably not setting them up for success when they return home. So, can you afford the facility that you've chosen? Is it accessible to you? Is your loved one agreeing to it? All of that kind of stuff is what you should look at. And can you continue to support that person once they return home? Specifically... Specifically with their addiction, not support them for experiencing any consequences.
Speaker 1Yeah. And I mean, for me too, in my family, the one thing that was always driven home was to make sure that they're licensed and accredited. I think that that was a big thing. You know, you've heard some horror stories about treatment centers in Ontario that have closed down as a result of not being licensed and accredited. And I've found that... a Accreditation Canada meeting the other, I would say a couple of weeks ago from the treatment center that I attended, the last treatment center that I attended. And I didn't know that they do this, but I thought it was really cool. The Accreditation Canada, it's that little red and white logo. They actually interview past clients and past family members of treatment centers to see what the program was like, you know, what the positives were, what the negatives were. And I thought that was really interesting because what better way to find out about a treatment center than to ask someone that had attended it and ask a family member that had attended the family
Speaker 2program, right? Yeah, yeah. I thought that was cool. And yeah, that is something you want to look for, for sure. At CATC, we're accredited by CARF, which don't ask me what the acronym stands for. I can never remember. But we're accredited through CARF. And it is a hugely in-depth process. Like they come in, they inspect our sites, they look at all of our programming, they look at our policies, they look at everything to make sure that nothing is slipping by and that what we're offering is a good ethical service. And yeah, you want to look for like licensed clinicians as well, too, because they're being held accountable by a college to make sure that they're practicing in a way that's really ethical as well. And there's oversight. So you know that they're not just going to do something and get away with it. If it's unethical, there's
Speaker 1a way for them to be held accountable. And that's really important. I agree. Okay, let's end with this. I learned a lot today. Thank you. If you could go back and say something to your active addicted self, what do you think you would
Speaker 2say? I think I would just want to assure myself that it gets better from here. Because a lot of the time, the reason that I wasn't motivated to do anything about the addiction or about the circumstances that I found myself in was because I didn't really have any belief that I was going to get better from there. I felt very, very hopeless. So I think I would just want my past self to know that it can and it will get better. Yeah. I mean, the first step is always
Speaker 1putting up your hand, right? I need help. And then when somebody, in my experience, puts their hand back out, it's like, I got to take the step, right? The first step. Yeah. I appreciate you, Melanie. Thank you so much for coming on. And I learned a lot today.
Speaker 2Yeah, no problem at all. Thanks for having me. Thanks for listening. Please help
Speaker 3us grow the channel and like, share and subscribe for more content. The discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational purposes only. This content is not a substitute for professional medical advice, addiction treatment, or therapy. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, please consult a licensed physician, addiction specialist, or mental health professional. You are no longer alone. Thanks for watching!
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