Two Champions on Mentors, Philosophies, and Why They Coach (Premiere Episode!)

You're listening to the Ringer podcast network. My name is Bill Simmons. This podcast is called Flying Coach with Pete Carroll and Steve Kerr. And one of the reasons I want to do this is because they wanted to raise some money and raise some awareness there in the COVID-19 crisis. We have already raised some money. $100,000 is going to the Warriors Community Foundation and the Seahawks Charitable Foundation. They're going to disperse that to a bunch of different COVID-19 causes within those areas, the Bay Area and Seattle. And we're hoping we can even raise a little bit more money than that. If you go to the wringer.com/wck, we're trying to help out world central kitchen because they are doing a bunch of great stuff. They're working across America to safely distribute individually packaged fresh meals in communities that need supporting hospital workers who are doing their jobs in wartime lake conditions. They've also formed hashtag chefs for America and they have a bunch of different awesome initiatives. You can directly help the heroes and hospitals and clinics for fighting for us and help keep your local restaurants alive. Just go to the wringer.com/wck. So this is a limited edition podcast series, Steve Kerr and Pete Carroll. And they're going to explain why they did this right now. [MUSIC PLAYING] Pete, here we go. First podcast. People are probably wondering, what the hell are we doing? Doing a podcast together. Let's talk about why we're here, what we want to accomplish, and what's going on in our situation here. Well, first off, I'm fired up to be doing this with you just to see if we can pull it off. Technically, we're here. We're rolling, so we can accomplish something. Well, you won the first battle. You won the technological battle. This took me a little while to get going here. But it's not that we were competing, but yeah, I did get started a little bit cleaner than you did, so we were definitely competing. Well, really, I was hoping that we could just have an opportunity to share kind of our perspectives, which are uniquely different and then so much the same, too. And share with the listeners that might want to hear kind of what's going on with our world and cross over between NBA and NFL and see if we can make some sense of the similarities and then the differences, too, and just have some fun with it. You know, when we talked a couple of weeks ago, I called you about Rex Chapman's COVID relief fund for the Food Bank in Kentucky and just asked you if you'd supported and you said to me, let's do something. What can we do? And so this is kind of what we came up with, a coaching podcast. So the plan is to raise a bunch of money for 100% of the proceeds from this are going to go to COVID relief. We've already made big donations through the Seahawks Foundation and the Warriors Foundation. So we're trying to do our part. But we also want to entertain. And we know people are stuck at home and they're looking for things to do while we wait this thing out. So I think we're going to talk a lot about coaching and a lot about how you run your team, how I run my team. And then eventually we'd love to get some coaching guests on from different sports and kind of make this a unique deal. So let's do it. I kind of see maybe one of these shots we can go NBA NFL and Major League Baseball. That might be kind of fun to put them on. It'd be good. You were kind enough to invite me to Seahawks Camp six years ago. And I suppose we should tell the story. Like people are probably watching this, they're listening, saying, how these guys get connected. And so actually, I want to hear your version of how we got connected. Because I've got my version. What do you remember about that? Really, I just wanted you to commit because I wanted to see your shot. You want to see what you're doing all time. Ever's three point guys. I'm always working on my Jay and he's a little help, you know. I think it was Dominique Wilkins say that you lose your hops but you never lose your Jay. I don't know about that. Dominique wasn't as old as me. It starts to fade a little bit, you know. So I never, I never had any hops. So I didn't have to worry about the hops for it. Well, really, you know, when I think we can, I don't remember, even remember how the first phone call took place, but we got connected on the thought of doing something. And I've always, you know, to me, you may have come in to see what you could pick up from us, but I was getting you in there so I could see what I could pick up from you because I'm either competing or I'm not. You know, so I'm looking for something. And so I welcome the guys coming to visiting us, you know. And we had a terrific visit, it was really fun. You were just getting started in coaching, which was fascinating to me, you know, that all of, with all of the great experiences that you had and even the great coaches you've played for and all of that, to think that you never really had called it much, you know, and was fascinating to me. How are you going to ever get going? You know, because there's so much to get organized. And so, you know, I took it as a real opportunity to kind of dig in. It helps me to rethink, you know, and how I advise somebody in that situation helps me more clearly understand what's important to me. And so I was a great exchange, it was fun, I had a few days worth and all that was great. Yeah, I was there for three days and it was, I think July of 14. You guys had just won the Super Bowl. So I had decided to leave my television gig and get into coaching and my agency that had represented my whole playing career at a coaching division and the guy they hired to run the coaching division was Mike Tannenbaum, who was just coming off the GM, his GM role with the jets. And Mike was incredible because, you know, I had always kind of thought, well, an agent, you know, it was going to help you negotiate a contract. And Mike was fantastic. He came in, we met, we had lunch and he said the first step is to help prepare you to learn how to be a coach. So let's brainstorm and think, you know, how can I help you become a coach, become a better coach or prepare to be a good coach? And he said, who do you admire? Like what coaches in the NFL do you like? And first thing I said is I would love to meet Pete Carroll because I'd watched you at SC and I was blown away by the energy and the joy that your team's played with at USC. And I'd watch your game, it was mesmerizing. There was like this palpable component of fun and joy and you could see it on the sidelines. Everybody's having a great time. You guys are winning game after game. And it was kind of ironic because I grew up a UCLA fan. I hated USC. But I'd watch you and I think, man, tell me that on the way in. I wouldn't have let it happen. I waited, I waited. So that's how I ended up in camp. I think Mike called DQ, Dan Quinn, who was your defensive coordinator. And you guys invited me up there and I sat in on meetings. You had me come into a huddle like during a scrimmage. I was kind of standing off to the side. You go, hey, go get in the huddle. Listen to, listen to Russell call the plays. Mike, really, you're pushing me in there. I'm in the huddle. I'm listening to Russell call a play standing behind, watching the play develop. It was, it was so much fun. It was incredible. Good, good, yeah. Well, you know, it was the thing that makes it even more memorable than just that we had a good time doing it. It's, you turn it right around and kick butt, man. You start winning games and winning games after game and going and putting together such an extraordinary run with your club. It was really thrilling to watch that, you know. And of course, we're really tuned into hoops in our building. And it's just something that we have fun with all the time with the players. And so we followed your team closely and followed the progress. And knowing that there was some connection to it, you know, it was fun. And just to watch the excellence, man, I mean, it's an incredible, an incredible feat that you pulled up. I mean, I've been coached for 40 years before I was talking to you, you know. And you had a coach at all, you know. So it does show you how it shows your ability to make sense of this stuff. And to make sense of the career that you had, to draw from the coaches that you had and marvelous coaches along the way. It all made sense to you. You must have been a great guy to coach for those guys, because you must, you know, you were one of the guys that you could figure it out. You could make sense. You could probably really help the coach on, you know, when you were playing on the court and all that. So you carried all that over. And you had some pretty good players, too. You know, how we were good players were magnificent, you know. And it was just a, just a masterful job of putting together a team right out of the shoot. So it was always been impressed. We followed the heck out of it. I appreciate it. We were loaded with talent. The team was ready to take off. I came in at just the right time. They were already good. Mark Jackson had done a hell of a job kind of putting a foundation in. They were one of the best defensive teams in the league. The guys, they were just young and they needed a little more experience. But this is what I remember that was so important about my visit with you. And I don't know if you remember this or not, but I sat in on meetings. As like I said, I sat in on huddles. I'm on the sidelines with you. I'm watching. There's all this energy, there's music's playing and the guys are bouncing around. You're going from one drill to the next. It was like organized chaos out there. There you go. And it was really fun. And that's kind of what, as I said, that's kind of what drew me to your style in the first place. But you called me into your office probably the third day. And you go, we sat down and you go, so how are you going to coach your team? Do you remember this? Yeah. Yeah. You go, how are you going to coach your team? I go, so like what offense are we going to run? You go, no, no, that stuff doesn't matter. And I'm like, jeez, I just spent like two years trying to design my offense. And Pete Carroll just told me, no, no, that stuff matters. And I said, well, what do you mean? You told me the most interesting story. You basically told me your story of how you learned how to become a coach. And I think it'd be really interesting for our listeners to hear the story. What you told me was that when you were in New England and with the jets, you knew football, but you didn't quite understand what coaching was about. And you went and joined the Niners as an assistant coach, right? And you told me you visited with Bill Walsh every day at the end of practice. And that story stays with me today. And I think about it all the time. Can you share that story? Yeah. What was going on? I was at San Francisco. And George Ciford was a head coach. And he had coached for years with Bill Walsh at the Niners. And Bill was just an iconic figure in all of sports. But in particular in that building there, you know, they held him in such extraordinary high regard, you know, because he was the king, you know, and the whole time he was there. And he was magnificent, the history of the success was well documented. But he was more than that. He was a personality and all that. Anyway, so when he came back to be an advisor, they hired him back after I think after the Stanford days. He came in the building and nobody wanted to talk to him. They were scared to death of him. You know, everybody was afraid to say the wrong thing. I didn't know anything. I mean, I grew up a Niner fan and all that and loved all their success. But I didn't, I hadn't been overwhelmed by him, you know, in the coaching process. So anyway, he was kind of by himself, you know, and he had a little office in the back corner. And so I just started going in and hanging out and he let me come in and talk. And he was, nobody else was coming by. So, you know, we developed a really great relationship. And what was so exciting about it is I was, I mean, I had loved the 49ers in the system and the history of how they had put it together and all of that. But I had the chance to ask him about all of, you know, how did you do it? Why did you do this? What was your thinking here? And why would you, why this player, why this coach, and even talking through the cycles of their time together with Joe and Jerry and all those guys and Stevie Young come on all, I mean, we have talked to all that stuff, which was, I mean, it was fun anyway, you know, whether it had something to do with coaching, or not, it was going to help me. I, you know, I was just trying to understand it better and learn. So it just became an extraordinary resource, you know, because I knew why he had done what he had, you know, he had chosen to do the things he had done. But what came through wasn't really any of the specific particulars, you know, it was that he knew what he was doing and he knew how he wanted his program to go. And he was really, really adamant and emphatic about the things that were important to him and execution and discipline and practice the approach to the players, how you dealt with the coaches and the players. It just, it reminded me so much of when I look back now, it reminded me so much of what I had learned and what I had loved so much about coach John Wooden, you know, that he was so unique and so extraordinarily his own guy and his own way, totally different than anything I could ever put up, built totally different than anything I could ever put out there as a coach. But it was more about figuring out that you needed to know you, that's why I asked you the question, you know, how you got to coach your team and what, what do you, now what, you know, okay, you've been around this a little bit, you're thinking about it and you're thinking of X's and O's and okay, I'm going to go to camp and all that. But that's not, that's not what came through during the great lessons, you know, with coach wall she was, it was about knowing who you are and the more I looked back at the people who had impressed me over the years, you know, I made your influence from, you know, from Bud Grant, you know, when I was at Minnesota for those five years and some money kiffing a guy, coach for years, it was these unique people and they had their way and their style. That's, so that's what I was, I wanted to get you to start thinking about who are you as a coach, what are you all about? Where are you coming from? What's important to you? Where do your uncompromising principles? You know, where, what are you going to stand by? What do you stand for? I mean, all of those things are going to come into play because they're going to, you're going to be in camp and some guys not going to show up for a meeting, you know, and then he's going to be late for the bus and then he's, then he's going to, you know, spout off at one of your players during the game, you're going to release millions of things that are going to happen. How are you going to react to him? How are you? It has nothing to do with X's and O's. It's who you are and how are you going, you know, and then every time you, you deal with any situation, you're making a statement about who you are, what you are, and then they're going to watch it. Do you really believe in something or you're just dealing with things randomly, you know, so that's the really cool stuff about figuring out how to coach, you know, and you unbelievable job you did. Like I said, I can't even imagine how you pull it off. Well, I know everything you're talking about ends up with authenticity, right? So every coach you're talking about, whether it's Bud Grant or or Bill Walsh or, you know, Seifert, they knew what they wanted, they knew what they were about and that had to show itself to the players. And that's, I think that's what most of my mentors, most of my, my coaches who I leaned on, guys like Phil Jackson, Greg Popovich, Lut Olsen and College, I could feel all that, but you were the first person to ever really express how that has to come through. And so what I mean by that is, you know, everyone talks about culture, how do you, how do you build a culture? You know, we've all been in a, in a gym or a, you know, a weight room where there's a big sign that says like, only the strong survive. And you're like, what does that even mean, right? And what I learned from you was everything that happens in practice, everything that the players feel when they walk into the gym or onto the field every day that they come to the facility, it has to be real. And the values that are important to you as a coach have to come alive. And that's how culture is defined. And when your players feel that, and they feel that authenticity coming from you, and it's really, it comes alive in practice and in the, in the atmosphere, now there's something real on the momentum starts to build. Yeah, well, one of the greatest pitfalls is lack of consistency, you know, to be consistent, you got to be going with what you know. If you're trying to do something that somebody else did, you're going to sometimes be on it and sometimes not. So you're going to be sometimes true to the word and sometimes not. And so it's so crucial. And I mean, whatever coach that I'm talking about, whatever sport I'm talking about, it doesn't matter. It just matters. Are you clear? Do you have your sense of it? You know, and so those questions need to be asked of yourself to figure that out. And you got to get to the point where you're clear about what you stand for and what so that you can give these guys the best shot and not having a bunch of distractions in their brain about, well, does he mean this? Does he not mean this? Who is he? Does he like me? Does he not? You know, all the kind of, you got to clear all the air because you got to get these guys to perform. We got to get all the garbage out of the way. So there's a lot to it. Yeah, there's a lot to, I love talking about it. I think it's fascinating stuff and it's every story is different with every coach, you know, and it's just, it's, it's, it's really cool stuff to talk about because it's really about unveiling to you who you are. And that's, that's what's, that's what's crucial. And you obviously were so clear and it made so much sense to you. Well, what was cool for me was you, you explained all that. And then you said, go back to your hotel the night and think about all that stuff. Think about what are the most important values to you, you know, not to Greg Popovich, not to Phil Jackson, you know, not to me, to you personally. And I think that was the best advice that I got was every, every person is different, right? Every, every human being is different and unique to his own set of circumstances. And, and so what our values might be similar, but they're unique to us. And, and learning how to, to make that those come alive in a, in a team setting is really what coaching is about. So this is what we're got cool for me was you said, you share that story. The next day we came in and we kind of talk more in detail about values. And you said, I went through this process with Bill Walsh and kind of talking things out all year. And then I did a lot of writing. I remember you two, you said you did a lot of writing and reading and you told me when you got the SC job, you knew you were ready. You said, I said, I, I said, I, you said, I knew we were going to roll. And so what do you explain that? What do you, what do you mean by? Well, yeah, nobody else thought so, because they were people that people that could keep that choice. They were like the, weren't you like the fourth choice or something? Or like the fourth or fifth or whatever. It was such a bad choice, you know, media wise that they had to wait extra days to kind of let the, let the dust settle in the time frames open up, you know, where they fell. Okay, we've got to hire somebody, you know, so, okay, let's take this guy. But yeah, what I was ready because, you know, a lot had happened following the New England job. And I got, I got fired there. And there had been a, you know, an offseason there that I was, I sat at home and I kind of semi-retired and tried to figure out what, I was trying to get involved in the media because I didn't know what else to do because like, you know, nobody was hiring me as a coach. So that wasn't working out either. So, you know, eventually, I went after asking all of the crucial questions that I met. Really, I was asking you, you know, in my office is that, you know, what's important? What do you come from? And this, this thought about uncompromising principles has always been a really strong thought. You know, what things will you only agree with? And you can't, you know, you can't accept anything but that. Those are huge decisions to make. And when you make those decisions, your philosophy starts to become take shape. When I think, you know, Steve, everybody has a philosophy in that they act the way they act. They've made the choices that they make for how they run their life and how they work their business and how they deal with their family and all that. But not always have we, you know, rarely have people sat back and said, these are my choices. Oh, I really, I do this. I, I, I like this kind of food. I like this kind of activity. I like this kind of music. I like to do this and do that. They, they don't sit back and evaluate it because they don't necessarily have to. But when you're competing on our level and you got to get stuff right and you got to get your act together, you got to know exactly who you are. You got exactly what you're giving these guys to help them be great. You got to know where you're coming from. And so that's what when I went after the process of coming out of the New England thing, which, you know, I was, I was rocked by getting fired and all that. We, we had one, we were winning games, you know, we've been to the playoffs and stuff. But it just, I still got fired and I needed to get my act together. I started all over again, basically. And that self discovery that occurred there and the time that took place got me ready for it. It happened to be USC. And even though they hated the thought that I was going in there, you know, I was so fired up, I was, it had nothing to do with anything. I could care less what they thought, you know, and it just set the stage. I didn't, I didn't inherit, I didn't inherit a bunch of great players, but I inherit a team that wasn't played very well. And, and so, you know, Carson Palmer and Troy Polomalo and Justin Fargates and all these great players that that were sitting there in the, in the wings there were just waiting to be kind of tuned in and turned on. And, and so it, you know, worked out pretty well. I think back to watching those teams. And, you know, I've talked earlier about the joy that, that you guys displayed. And that's one of our team values with the Warriors is joy. And, you know, I just always felt like as a player, I, that was when I played my best when I was having the most fun. And I think in general, that's why we all start playing sports as kids because we enjoy it. And I happened to to inherit maybe the most joyful basketball player in the NBA history and Steph Curry. And so the, the culture is, is obviously, you know, your, your values are important, but the connection with, with key players is, is so important as well. So, can I turn you around? Can you help, help me understand how, how did you take, okay, you've developed some time there in here where you were going to put your, your, your approach together. What happened there? How did, how did that, how did you come to the decisions that you made to design the format for your club and the way you were going to come across it? How did that happen for you? Because we, okay, we had our meetings and we talked about it and whatever and you walked away from that. But what's incredibly amazing to me is you did it, you know, and you did it in a couple months, you know, and how did you, how did you pull that off? Well, I think most importantly, we had, we had great talent and they were already good, you know, and, and that was the first thing that we tried to do as a coaching staff was go in there and tell the guys, we respect what you've already done. And you've already built this foundation. And so we're here to just try to help you take the next step. And so I think, I think our players appreciated that because, you know, they were proud of what they had accomplished already. They'd been to the playoffs in consecutive years, two straight 50 plus winning seasons. The Warriors hadn't done that in two decades. And so they were already really good. And I think it was important for our staff to, to connect on that level to explain to our guys, hey, we're coming in. You guys are here. Let's take the next step. And I had such great mentors, Phil Jackson, Greg Popovich, Lenny Wilkins, who I played for in Cleveland for three years, Cotton Fitzsimons, played for in Phoenix. I felt their influence as when I played for them. I felt that authenticity. The one thing that that I felt from all of them was you have to find a way to bind the whole group together. You know, for me, it's 14, 15 guys for you. It's, it's 60, whatever it is. And so what's going to be the common theme? What's going to be that bond? And so we had such a deep team. The thing that I talked about from day one is we are going to overwhelm people. We're going to play everybody. We're going to play a deep second unit. And that means one night it's going to be your night. Next night it's going to be somebody else's night. But if you, if you let it happen, we're going to roll people. And we had really, really unselfish leadership. We had a really well structured team. I think that's important too. You can't have all young guys and you can't have all old guys. We had a really good balance roster. And so we had the veteran leadership of of Andre Agadala, for example, Landro Barbosa, Andrew Bogot, guys like that who who understood that this was an opportunity to be really special. And so I tried to appeal to that part of it with our players. The idea that we're going to overwhelm people with our depth and our numbers. And when you do that and you play fast and you play loose and you have fun every day, it can be an incredible run. Steve, a lot of people that would be in a position where they take over an organization or something like that would be really compelled to really be in the center of it. I'm thinking this is their job and they got to go for it. They've got to put their stamp on it. And it doesn't sound like any of that was the issue was of your concern. You were more about assessing the situation, evaluating your players, the potential. You recognize the history. And you what it really sounds like to me is that you really respected where they had come from to the point where that guided your decisions. And there's nothing better than for those players to hear that you appreciated who they were, what they had accomplished. And you didn't come in there to try to make them something that they different and you tried to maximize what they brought. That selflessness of that part of it, the unselfish part of coming in, there's a lot of ego involved that could have entered into this. And you put that on the back burner. Obviously, you must have. And you went in there and figured it out, complimented what they had. And then really opened up the doors to really let them flourish. I think that sounds like that really must have taken place in quick fashion. You know, and didn't sound there was many hitches along the way. No, no, we had a we had a good staff. I had a couple of veteran guys, Ron Adams and Alvin Gentry by my side who had been in the league for like 30 plus years. So they really helped guide me. But I think the whole point is, you know, if you're comfortable in your own skin, then you can understand that really what coaching is about is serving your players. But you have to do it in an authoritative way. If that makes sense, you know, you can't, you have to be vulnerable as a human being, but you also have to show that you know what the hell you're doing. And I thought that's where where Phil Jackson, Greg Popovich were great pop, especially in his time with the Spurs. I played four years there. You could feel his humility. Almost like a good parent. Like you didn't want to disappoint him, you know, because you knew how much he cared about you, but you also knew he knew exactly what he was talking about. And I think that's that's a really powerful position to be in as a coach is to understand that relationship with your players where, you know, you're not telling them what to do. You're trying to bring the best out of them. And then you've got to balance that that's there. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a dance the whole time. There's no question. Yeah. Greg sounds like that, just the way you define that, it sounds really clear to me that I always loved everything that he stands for and all that. But that the parent part of it is something that over the long haul of all of the years has come through to me that I'm really looking at it like if I was the dad, you know, what would I what would I do to help my guys be the best they can be? You know, you want your kid to be great at whatever they're doing and have a full life and be everything they can be and all that kind of stuff. That's really been the real guiding light for me later on. I didn't realize I didn't know anything for years. I was just coaching, but it took a long time to figure stuff out. But that's really what's come true now. And it's to care for me and you really care. And you care enough that you follow just your thought about what if you love these people, what would you do to help them, you know, make them fully enjoy what they get the opportunity to do. And that's I know Greg has found so many different ways to make sense and connect with individual guys. And that shows how much he cares. And after a while when you're totally consistent like he is, they know that's just who you are. And when you're to that level and they're not there isn't a mistrust or, you know, looming agendas that the guys can think or are out there pending, you know, that you have a chance to start to connect on a really high level and you can really allow people to find their way and they can express themselves. And that's that's the whole idea to me. Yeah. Big time, big time level of trust and and the humility was a big part of it with him. I remember our first championship in San Antonio was 99. And we won game five in the garden against the Knicks. And you know, they bring the stage out just like they do in the NFL, you know, you bring the stage out and the media is up there and all the players are up there. And I remember being up on stage and Tim Duncan's MVP and they're interviewing Tim Duncan and all the players and you know, we're all wearing our hats and the whole deal. And I look down to my side and pop and his whole staff are not on the stage. They're 20 feet off to the side completely out of the picture. And I'll never forget that because it was great. That's a great image. It was so symbolic of what he believed. You know, it's like this is this is your moment. You guys are the ones who did all the work yourself. Yeah, that's good stuff. That's beautiful. That's a beautiful thought. Last thing. And then we'll wrap it up. Okay. When did you know you wanted to become a coach? Wow. It's interesting. I grew up, you know, playing every sport that could play all around the calendar forever and just loved playing. Just like you said earlier, you know, loved to play the games and just have fun doing what we do. And I had in my high school, when I went to high school, my high school coach had a camp, a summer camp, this really cool old style, marine boot camp type of thing. And when I was a freshman, he asked me, I don't know why he picked me and out, but he asked me if I would want to come and coach pop Warner kids, you know, and then earn my way to come to the camp for a couple back-to-back sessions. Well, the point is, for the next eight years, I was coaching with Bob Tropman, my head coach who since passed away. And I never, ever thought that I was ever going to coach, but I was coaching from the time I was 13 years old, you know. And I had always pictured coaching as the high school coach kicking towels in the locker room, you know, picking them up after being class, you know, I didn't have an image other than that, I just, as odd as that may sound. And not until I had finished playing at the University of Pacific, and I tried out NFL team and tried to get the campuses and went to the World Football League. I was trying in any way to keep playing forever. And I was out, you know, I got cut and I was done. I had no clue what I was going to do next. I didn't have one thought of what the next thing I was going to do. And fortunately, my coaches from the University of Pacific called and said, "Hey, I heard you got released, you know, would you like to be a graduate assistant?" I had never even thought about it until that moment. And I had no other choices. So I said, "Yeah, okay, you know, I know what else to do." And so I went back to school and that's when that's when I thought about coaching. I mean, I just didn't, I didn't grow up with that desire, but I had been doing it. And I had been drawn up plays in size of, you know, 13, 14 years old and stuff. And I was just always ball coaching in a sense, but I didn't know what I was doing and didn't know I was doing it. So it just became something that other people saw in me. And then they helped me get connected to it. And then then it's been, you know, it's been a lifetime really of joy in fun and games and winning and losing and all that and the lifetime that I'm really grateful for. So you went from UOP to the NFL eventually? Like straight down. No, I went all through the whole college thing. I went, I was a graduate assistant for three years at UOP, which many of you are at the bottom of the totem pole. I used to save the letter, the rejection letters I got from coaches. You know, when I try to get on at some of those little small school, but I offended my eventually from Pacific went to Arkansas when Lou Holtz was first, the first year that Lou Holtz went to the University of Arkansas. And I got to go there as a graduate assistant for under Lou. And then that's where everything popped. And then I went to Iowa State and eventually went to NC State, Ohio State and all over the place, you know, and eventually got got to the NFL, you know, years later, 12, 15 years later. Yeah. I always thought I was going to coach. You did. Probably when I, yeah, my dad was a teacher. My mom taught as well and kind of come from a family of educators and it was kind of in the blood. And I didn't think I was going to play in the NBA. So I was thinking after I got done with college, I'd get into coaching. And then I started playing and kind of surprised myself, you know, with how long I ended up playing. And by the time I was done playing, my kids were young. And so I decided to just get into TV so I could be home more often. But I always had my eye on being a coach. And one of the great things for me doing the TV stuff was visiting with the coaches. I'm sure you do it like Saturday afternoon or whatever. You know, you visit with the announcers and you give them 20 minutes or whatever and you talk about strategy, talk about whatever. So doing that when I was at TNT and visiting with all the NBA coaches, I learned so much. And so there was about a two year period. My kids were off in college. I was doing TV when I said, all right, this is what I'm going to do. And, you know, I couldn't have imagined inheriting a team like the Warriors in my first coaching job. But man, it's been a fun run. That's a great joy. You had the opportunity there with your family. You made good choices with the family. We were, you know, we were just chasing coaching jobs. We were moving all over the place. And Glenn and I moved, we moved, I don't know, it's 17 times or something like that, you know, from one place to the other, drag and the family all over the place. And all the choices went to the next football opportunity, you know, and so I regret that the drag and the family around so much and not being able to have a settled atmosphere. The first time we were, I think, we're in Minnesota. We were there for five years. That was the first time we stayed anywhere for five years, you know, and we just, you know, we did, had no, no home really. We were just, you know, kind of mercenaries. And it was fighting everybody else's wars. It kind of what it felt like, you know, and so, but now we've been able to settle the last couple jobs, which has been really good, the family's been able to stay together, connect and really be a tight group. But I regret the fact that we had to move so much that we were, it was so unstable. So I admire your choices. You did it for the family. It worked out great. So it's awesome. Well, I was lucky. I was lucky to be able to do so. And yeah, we're all pretty lucky. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that the truth? And so we'll wrap it up. And on that note, you know, thankful that, you know, we're both safe and healthy. And you know, we're going to get through this, this whole thing. And we're going to try to help everybody out there as best we can get through this together. And hopefully we'll keep you entertained with this, this podcast, but just want to make sure everybody out there is following the advice of the experts and sticking with it. And we'll get through it together. Yeah. I do think that we have the opportunity to make, we have choices now, you know, and how are we going to do it? And I hope that you and I can continue to just reinforce how important it is to be disciplined and to be tough about this, you know, this process and figuring our way through it. And I mean, just like we would coach our guys, you know, this is, this is a challenge, you know, it's an extraordinary opponent that we're up against. And we're going to have to do the hard work, you know, and it's tough and it's challenging and that, but if we make good, you know, really sound choices and look after our people that we love so much, we can stay safe and we'll do better. So we wish everybody the very best out there that's working so hard to make it through it. No doubt. No doubt. Thanks Pete. That was fun. All right, Steve. We'll do it again. Great talking to you, buddy. See you. You too. All right. Thanks for listening to Flying Coach with Steve Kerr and Pete Carroll on the Ringer podcast network. We will be creating a new feed for this. Stay tuned for that. Check the ringer's Twitter feed and Steve Kerr will probably tweet about it too. But for now, you can find it on the Ringer MBA and Ringer NFL feeds. And when we launch that feed, you will be the first to know. Thanks for listening. Don't forget about the ranger.com/wck if you want to help us raise money. The Warriors Community Foundation as well as the Seahawks Charitable Foundation. They're doing a great stuff as well. We'll see back on the feed later in a week with one more.