Turn Your CRM Into a Revenue Engine—Building Trust, Consistency, and Better Follow-Up featuring Jason Kramer

If you've told me you've had three different CRMs and they've all failed, it's not the technology. The power of those tools to help you do your job better is going to dramatically change the way that you do business, the way that you close, the way that you follow up, and the way that you actually help people. So there's a couple of things. It's not only helping the salesperson, the sales team close more deals, it's helping the marketing team in the business lower the cost of getting good leads that actually want to buy what you're selling. This is technology that's been around for over a decade that's available in most CRM systems. Welcome to the Selling from the Heart podcast on the From the Heart Business Network. You've joined a global movement of sales professionals who are dedicated to being authentic and building trust. We call it Selling from the Heart. Together, we're on a mission to bring sincerity and substance to the sales profession we all love. Get ready to be inspired and equipped as we join our hosts. Larry Levine and Daryl Amey. Hiring salespeople based on a resume or a great interview is like drafting players based on their Instagram highlights. They look amazing in the clips. That's until the real game starts. Exactly. Every CEO has been there. The interviews go great. You think you're bringing a top performer onto your team. But what if you're not? You're not. You're not. You're not. You're not. Once they hit the field, they can't close, won't prospect, and blame the leads. That's exactly why we recommend Sales Index Unlimited Candidate Assessments. It's your sales recruiting engine that screens every candidate against 21 proven sales competencies, benchmarked against 2.5 million sales professionals worldwide. That is more than a personality profile. You'll know with confidence who can sell and who will actually do the work. Because the best teams, don't just fill positions. They build a bench. They're always scouting for great players who can perform under pressure. For just $2.99 a month, you can build your own bench of ready-to-sell talent. Coachable, driven, and proven before they ever get the jersey. So stop guessing. Start scouting like a pro. Go to unlimited.salesindex.ai. That's unlimited.salesindex.ai and start building your next sales all-star team today. Hello and welcome back to the Selling from the Heart podcast. Your co-host Daryl Amey here today with Larry Levine. What's going on, Larry? Hey, great seeing you, Daryl. What isn't going on? We got all kinds of stuff going on here at Selling from the Heart. Super excited. We're going to have a great time like we always do when we podcast. But let's get this thing started, Daryl. We're going to cultivize some great habits today with our friend Jim Kramer. You're going to get some ideas that are going to help you grow your sales. Jason Kramer. Jim Kramer. That's a good one. Hey, Jim Kramer. I know, dude. I know you couldn't wait. Sorry. We'll make this all right. Okay, thank you. That was so great. We're in such great flow. All right, here we go. Sorry, production team. Wait, let's get Larry on here. Okay, there we go. Welcome back to the Selling from the Heart podcast. Your co-host, Daryl Amey, here today with Larry Levine. All kinds of stuff are going on, Daryl. Great seeing you. We're in for a treat. Something tells me we're going to have a terrific conversation here today. We are going to cultivize some great habits with our friend Jason Kramer. Hey, thank you for joining us today at Selling from the Heart. We're dedicated to being genuine, being authentic, building trust, all the attributes of Selling from the Heart. And our community continues to grow around the world. And we're so glad you joined us today. Yeah, I just wanted to give a special shout out to somebody who just joined a super great team, Jamie Woodward. I appreciate you. You're one heck of a leader already, and you're just getting started. So, hey, thank you for being part of this community. I appreciate you. Yeah, absolutely. We really, really appreciate you as well. Larry, this is just a crazy day for podcasting. The entire intro for Jason just disappeared. So, I think Jason is like, what kind of show have I actually come on? But the answer is, it is. And you're getting the real, raw, authentic part of this, Jason Kramer. Oh, my goodness. Hang tight, Jason. We're going to get this right. It literally disappeared from my screen, and it is back. So, okay. Let's just do this one last time. We're going to nail it and go into a great conversation. Jason's like, dude, these guys. These guys. All right. All right. Hey, first of all, what isn't going on? It's a great day here at Selling from the Heart. Excited for our guest. We just got to get this thing started. So, let's go. All right. We're going to have a good time cultivizing some great habits with our friend, Jason Kramer. Hey, thanks for joining us. You've joined a growing community of sales professionals that are dedicated to being genuine, being authentic, building trust, all the attributes we call Selling from the Heart. And I love this growing community all over the world. Yeah, absolutely. Hey, special shout out to Jamie Woodward. She just recently joined a really super great company here in Southern California that I personally know. Hey, Jamie, I'm looking forward to get to know you. Thanks. Thanks for waving the flag almost immediately around Selling from the Heart. Yeah, we certainly, certainly appreciate you. Well, we're going to have a great conversation today. Today's guest is here to challenge us on how we think about one of the most underutilized tools in sales, your CRM. Jason Kramer is the founder and CEO of Cultivize, where he helps organizations turn their CRM from a passive database into an active driver of revenue growth. Jason has worked with hundreds of companies across the globe, and what he's found is this. The problem isn't the CRM, it's the mindset. Too many salespeople see CRM as a reporting tool instead of a performance tool. In this conversation, Jason's going to help us break down what it really means to adapt a CRM mindset, using your system to guide daily behavior, create consistency and follow-up, uncover missed opportunities, and build stronger relationships all over time. These are all things that are going to help us win. So, Jason, welcome to Selling from the Heart. It is awesome to have you here. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. It's going to be good. Yeah. As we get started, Jason, you know the question that every guest on the Selling from the Heart podcast answers, and that is, what does Selling from the Heart mean to you? Well, I always put myself in the shoes of the person I'm selling to. So, I want to be treated the same way as if I'm on the other end of the table. So, I think Selling from the Heart is being authentic, it's being honest, it's being genuine. But at the end of the day, it's also providing value. And if somebody is selling from the heart, it's being honest, it's being genuine. And if somebody sees the value that you can bring to the table beyond product and features and benefits, I think that's really what sets people apart and why people want to work with you. And something tells me this all ties into how you use your CRM. But before we go down this lane, you got to expand the screen on this one. This is why you all need to watch Selling from the Heart. That's right. Not listen to it on Spotify or whatever your favorite listening platform is, because there's a great saying behind Jason, and it's a heart, and it says, love is all we need. So, Jason, you were meant to come on the Selling from the Heart podcast. There we go. You were born for this, Jason. This is your moment. By the way, thank you for sending me the painting. I got it just in time. I love it. Yeah. Tell us about that background, though. I love that. Love is all we need. And Jason has this beautiful Banksy painting behind him with a heart. And I love that. I love that. I love that. And the heart says the words, love is all we need. When you think about business and, in particular, sales, how does that statement align with what we're here to talk about with our friends in sales? Yeah. I mean, so it all comes from the heart, right? I mean, so you have to be in it to, like I said before, be authentic. And I think that if people are out there just running through the motion, you know, having your coffee in the morning, doing the grind of what you do, and there's no passion behind it, people, in my opinion, can see that. So I think you really need to have your heart in it. And we all know, and that's a completely other podcast and topic about people that are just, you know, the rat in the wheel, and they're just kind of going through the motions, you know, because they're scared to do something different, or, you know, they just don't know how to make that leap and make that change. So I think having your heart in something, no matter what you do in life, is super important. So, so good. Well, hey, this topic of CRM, I just want to start the topic with a, or this conversation with, with a question. Why should salespeople who sell from the heart buy into CRM? Why should people who say, I want to sell from the heart be all in on their CRM? So, I mean, the first of it is, is that a CRM shouldn't, well, let's say this, CRM has a bad rap in that people think this is a place where I'm just going to put data into it. I'm just going to put data into it. into a field, I'm going to go from tab to tab, and I got to put this in here and it's extra work, or I'm doing things that aren't going to really help me. And it's really the wrong attitude to have, especially when the rise of AI over the last couple of years, and it's going to just leap forward past. And so I'll just give you a quick example. Companies on average that leverage that CRM are going to see almost a 30% boost in sales. And they're also going to see a generation of about 50% more leads that are ready to buy. And they're going to do that with a lower cost to acquire those leads. So it's not only helping the salesperson, the sales team close more deals, it's helping the marketing team and the business lower the cost of getting good leads that actually want to buy what you're selling. Hey, I mean, I'm all in on CRM, always have been for decades and decades. Even, you know, back in my day selling office technology, I was a massive proponent of CRM, still am to this day here at Selling from the Heart. But I want to touch on this mindset because Daryl used the word mindset in your intro is, where do we start changing or how do we start changing the mindset at a leadership level on the importance of all of this so it trickles down and helps change the mindset of sales managers? And salespeople on the why behind all of this? So the why comes down to the biggest thing I think is things falling through the cracks. So it all starts with process. And the reason that most CRM systems don't work is because they weren't set up correctly in the first place, but they also weren't set up with a process in mind. And so what happens, you know, you hire a company or you go and go to a new company to get that CRM software. The first thing you want to do is upload all your data, right? They're like, where's your data? Where's your files? Let's upload everything. But you can't do that without actually understanding, well, how's the team going to use the system? How do we decide what data we're going to import, where the data is going to live? And so that's why there has to be a clear understanding that this is a tool, but the tool alone isn't going to solve the problem, right? We need to get in the minds of the salespeople, the business managers, even sometimes the owners of the business to really understand the inner workings of the business so the CRM could be a way to make the business be more efficient on its own versus just being something, like I said before, where people look at it as a data entry tool that does nothing about, it's a generate reports. Yeah. You know, and I just think about our, our, our friends and, and in our business as well, you know, our heart at selling from the heart and serving our clients. And we, you know, we get to work with amazing companies all over North America and, and we don't, we don't want things to fall through the cracks, you know, and, and this is, this is like, if you just take it down to its most simple level if you want to sell from the heart and you want to build trust and you want to establish, you know, a, a really good relationship with someone, so much trust can be eroded like that with bad execution and things falling through the cracks. And look, I, you know, as salespeople, the majority of us are highly reliant on the trust formula, which is fantastic. However, that's where I think some of these systems and technology come in to protect us from things that can take a relationship that's been built up over months and even years and help that relationship keep from being eroded by not forgetting stuff. And it, it just takes what Larry talks about in, in the trust formula. It takes that disciplined habit of saying, you know what? I don't want to be a trust formula. I want to be a trust formula. I don't want things to fall through the cracks. I'm going to have the disciplined habit of actually using this. Sorry, that was a long diatribe on this, but I'm passionate about this from our friends who want to sell from the heart, because I think these are the areas where we have good intentions that fall apart and using a CRM is a part of building trust and driving great execution. Thoughts? Darrell, I mean, you, you said it, the good intentions. It's, I've never met a salesperson that doesn't want to follow up doesn't want to do the right thing. But the reality is, again, if there's no process, what happens? Oh, I'll do it tomorrow. I'll do it next week. I'll do it next month. All of a sudden you forget to do it. And then you've lost that opportunity. And the other part too, is again, with best intentions, you have a great meeting. Well, we all know that a lot of meetings are happening via, you know, a video call these days less, less so in person. And so you have the ability and technology to record word for word. And so you have the ability and technology to record word and a transcript of that meeting, but people aren't leveraging that. And so what happens, you have a great meeting. It could be a half hour, an hour or more. And there are key indicators that that prospective client said to you about their problems, their pain points. You know, the question I love is why now, like, why are we talking now versus a year ago or five years ago, what's changed in your company or your situation of why you need to talk to us. And so when they don't listen for those things, what happens? days or weeks or months go by, then they take notes either on a piece of paper and a spreadsheet in the CRM. But the note they take isn't exactly what was said in that conversation. It was their best memory of the conversation. And so you lose a lot of detail. And that's really, I think, where salespeople suffer is they're not leveraging that detail because they're giving all the answers. It's like being in school and the teacher's like, here's the answers to the test, but you're really not paying attention. You're like, oh, you're superficially looking at them. And then two hours later, you take the test and you're now trying to remember what those answers were. And you're probably not going to do as well. You know what's interesting about all this? I got to go back to this trust word for a second because I want to think about, I'm going to flip this on its head, but I think we can handle it in the time that we have here together is I'm going to look at this through the lens of a salesperson. And they're going, there's a lot of salespeople who probably buy into the concept, Jason, of using a CRM, but it's this lack of trust, right? If I start putting all this stuff in there, right, wrong, or indifferent, how am I going to be viewed? What's going to start happening and all that? So speak to the leaders who are constantly probably coming to you, replacing CRMs and CRMs and CRMs. And where does this trust or lack of trust kind of, it's a long-winded segue into this, but it's a long-winded segue into this, but it's a long-winded segue into this, but there's got to be something in there on why these people are constantly replacing all of this and why salespeople put some stuff in, but yet where's this lack of trust to play out in all of this? It's one word, accountability. And so the problem is, is that there's not accountability by the managers to make sure that things are being done. And they're sometimes not even doing it themselves. So how could a salesperson say, oh, I need to be using this tool when their boss isn't even using it. And they're not even using it. And they're not using the tool themselves. So that's really sometimes where it starts is that at the leadership level, we need to see why is this tool important, but why is it not important for you, but you're saying it's important for everybody under you. And that's a big, maybe not almost a can of worm to open, but it's something that is a conversation that needs to happen because if you've told me you've had three different CRMs and they've all failed, it's not the technology. I was just talking to a marketing agency. A multimillion dollar agency yesterday, who I've been talking to for about a year on and off, and they have Salesforce, they have all these different tools. Their tools are fine. The problem is they were all built incorrectly. And so they know, yes, we may want to switch to a more, an easier solution and have everything under one roof, but they also recognize it was the process that was never defined is why their tools aren't working and why it's so much harder for them. And so it's also a long way of me saying, that, you know, everybody has to be involved. You can't just say, we want to buy this tool and have the people in the lower level seats, you know, use it. The whole company needs to use it, marketing and sales and VPs as well, in my opinion. I mean, that's just the way that I think it needs to happen. Well, you've said a word that's one of my favorite things and that's tools. And so I love, if you came to my home, you would probably see my shop and I have all kinds of, tools and I love buying new tools. And I think what's, what's amazing about a tool is it allows you to accelerate things, you know? So I just think about like, I could use a handsaw to cut a board and, you know, that's a lot of work. But I have a power saw done, right? And, and you've got these tools. And I think, you know, part of the mindset of, of sales, sales professionals, is to look at these tools and to go, okay, I can use this tool to help me accelerate things. And if I'll use this tool correctly and consistently, I'll get better results. And, and that's where, you know, I've noticed in my own life, and we were strong believers in this at Selling from the Heart, that using the tools is a good way to make sure that we get things done and get them done consistently. And I think tools require training, right? I would never hand a power saw to my sweet little granddaughter, right? But I'm curious when you think about what role do the tools of your CRM and maybe some of the related technologies have to do with talking to our friends who are sales professionals, having the potential to help you do your job faster and better? So the big one, which is common in a lot of platforms, is lead scoring, right? So having an ability to create a formula and say, if somebody goes to our pricing page, that's an indicator that there's some level of interest versus them going to the blog, for example, on our website. And so having a way where the CRM can tell you, okay, yeah, you may have to make 50 calls today, 100 calls today, but here's the top 20% that are most likely to take your call that is showing the buying signals that they are ready to maybe have that conversation with you. And so this is a big one. There's a number of different tools that all tie into lead scoring. A product we use, they have a tool called Life of the Lead, which I love. Visually, it's just a timeline, and it shows you every single interaction with that person. Every time they came to the website, what they were looking at, every form they filled out, every email exchange you've had through Outlook or through marketing emails, the opportunity, right? The sales opportunity in that stage, phone calls made, text messages. It's literally the lifeblood of that relationship. And you can see that whole entire history within one click. That's huge, right? Because if you can see past conversations and things that have been said, or you can see what they're looking at on the website, I mean, think about it. If you're selling even a dozen different things and someone fills out a form on your website or calls you, what are you going to do? You're going to start going through all the things you sell, right? And finding out which one they're interested in. But if you already know that they spent 10 minutes looking at one particular product on your website, you don't have to talk about the 11 other things. You just talk about the one product because that's clearly what they called you about. So that's information that is there. It's at the fingertips. And believe it or not, it's in a lot of systems that already exist. We're not talking about systems that are hundreds of thousands of dollars. I mean, this is technology that's been around for over a decade that's available in most CRM systems. It's just people, again, going back to what we said before, they're not trained on how to access that tool. And to your point about with your granddaughter, they're not trained on how to use the tool. So they're just saying, here's all the tools, right? Imagine like saying, here's Home Depot, right? Here's thousands and thousands of different tools and go at it. You wouldn't even know where to start, right? I mean, you would just be completely overwhelmed. And what would happen? You probably wouldn't walk past the front door because you'd be like, this is too much. I don't even know which direction to walk. Yeah. I'm just sitting here thinking about this lack of training. So we're talking about training. Let's just flip this on its head. There's got to be a dollar amount, Jason. I don't know if you know or not, but lack of training in a CRM costs a company on average. How many dollars? Because I'm just thinking about lack of training probably drives executives that go, well, these people aren't using or something's broken. I'll just go get another CRM. There's got to be a dollar correlation here somewhere. Oh, absolutely. And let's think about the lack of training, the result though, of what the salesperson, some of my salespeople, what they're doing if they don't have the proper training. They're probably doing a lot of administrative cleanup work and tasks that they shouldn't have to do at all, either because automation could do it or other people on the team can do it. And so if they're spending just two hours a day doing that cleanup, let's just throw out a number of 150K that they're making a year. That means they're spending almost $40,000 for that salesperson just to do data cleanup work in the CRM, which is. Astronomical. I mean, think about how much more other factors are going to play into a role, right? Lead acquisition, all these other costs. So yeah, I mean, it could get very expensive, Larry. I mean, extremely expensive. And the problem with training is that most consultants like myself or software providers, what do they do? They provide cookie cutter training videos that have nothing to do with your CRM at all. They're just generic. So they don't really teach you anything. Or if they are doing that customized training, they'll say, okay, we'll train you for three hours or we'll do a one-day training. It doesn't take one day to ride a bike. I mean, it can take weeks or months to learn how to ride a bike, right? I mean, we've all been there. So our training goes on indefinitely. We're training for months, for years sometimes. Not to say it takes years, but we stay on top of our clients' teams. And every month we meet with them and say, okay, let's just check in. Are you guys doing what you should be doing? Is everything working the right way? And that training is continual. And that's how they learn. They learn from figuring out there's easier ways to do things. They figure out from mistakes, but they need somebody like the rock star Jason or somebody there to keep on top of them and make sure they're doing what they're supposed to be doing. Because yes, leadership should be doing that, but leadership doesn't know the system as well as my team knows the system. So it's our responsibility to make sure leadership and the team are all moving in the right direction. And we just, we never look away. I mean, that's the thing of it is like, once you look away, things could go back to those bad habits very quickly. Now I have a flashback, Jason. So when I started in my career in, it was in the early 1990s. And I remember the company I worked for, they, they had like, they gave us literally, this is crazy. They gave us a shoe box to put three by five cards in to organize our prospects. I was like, this is absurd. So literally I drove to the back then it was thing was office depot at lunch and bought a windows 3.1 machine and a floppy disk with this program called act. And I remember like, I'm like, I am not going to run my career. This is like my career in a shoe box. Like this is, this is dumb. And so I, I remember I bought that. I brought it back to the office. Everyone's like, what are you doing? And I said, you know, why, my commitment was I'm building a business here. You know, I, this is my territory, I'm building a business. I'm going to do it now. Fortunately today, you know, salespeople go to a company and they hand them a laptop and they hand them a login for the CRM. And, and, you know, I just, I want to let, let people know that this is a gift. This is a tool. It is a, you know, it's amazing thing. So I'm curious to wrap this conversation up. This has been really, really a great conversation, Jason. I'm curious, what tips would you give to our friends who are, you know, just around CRM usage? Like what are some best practices, some things you've seen along the way that our friends in sales could really, really benefit from? Well, the first thing I would do is, you know, for yourself, if you're a salesperson, take out a piece of paper and write down, you know, what does your schedule look like, you know, Monday through Friday, you know, even in one day, right. What, what do you, what are you doing? What are your activities and how much of that time is spent in the CRM? How much time is spent writing things down on a piece of paper, right? All the things you're doing to follow up, like how are you keeping yourself organized? Because sometimes you just make assumptions in your head of how things work, but when you don't put it on paper, the reality check starts to happen. So that's one thing I would always suggest doing is it gives you a little gut check of where things are at. Second thing is, you know, look at this CRM, whichever CRM you're doing, and this is a great, AI kind of like little, you know, shout out here, go into chat, GBT, Gemini, any of them, and just say, this is the CRM I'm using. Like, what are the things I should be doing in my CRM every day? If I only had a half hour a day to spend in this particular piece of software, what should I be doing? And you'll get very detailed instructions of the tools you should be doing and everything that would help you do your job better. You know? And the third thing I would say quickly is that look at your follow-ups, look at if hopefully you have some type of pipeline, even if it's a Google spreadsheet. And when was the last time you followed up with people and how consistently are you following up with people? That's the one that gets people the most because they're like, oh crap, like that was something I should have followed up three months ago on, and I never did. And guess what? I bought something from someone else at this point. Yeah. Hey, Jason, thanks for hanging out with us and talking about this because CRM usage is near and dear to me. And, you know, I just think, you know, and selling from the heart, I wrote about the difference between sales rep and a sales professional and a true sales professional is kind of the CEO of their own business. And part of being the CEO of your own business is you got to enter in stuff like this, because this is a mindset thing. And especially the older you get, your memory's not what it used to be. You can't memorize everything. You literally can't. As much as you all think you can, I'm here to tell you, this, you can't, I got to share a quick story. This is, this is just puts a bow on this. And then Jason, I sincerely appreciate you talking to a CEO friend of mine. This is just about a week or so ago. And we set up the time to talk and all that. And he goes, Hey, Larry goes, Hey, before we get started, I just got a quick question for you. Do you use a CRM? I'm not BS and anybody on this is, this is like, I've told their old story. I go, yeah. He goes, did you put a trigger in there to actually reach out to me a couple of weeks ago to set up this call? And I said, well, yeah. He goes, do you use your CRM? I said, well, yeah. what do you use? And I told him and I go, why are you asking? He goes, I just dropped well past six figures on a new CRM here. And I'm already upset because our salespeople aren't using it. I'm going to leave everyone with that thought because Jason's nodding his head and experiences it, but there's a lot of wasted money. I just had to share that quick story because he was, the CEO was so infuriated. He was like spin firing bullets. So if I can just say two things to that story, that's great, Larry. So first is, and this is like my motto and it's, I didn't coin it. I wish I did, but software doesn't solve any problems at all. It's the people, right? That are going to solve those problems. And second, Harvard business review did a study that showed nearly almost 73% of companies, and this is probably your friend, that will buy a CRM, will completely fail at the setup of that CRM. 73%. The reason being, they don't know what they're doing. They're assuming the tool is just going to work out of the box. They assume that the dog and pony show they saw of all these great things is going to magically adapt to their business. It doesn't work that way. It's not complicated, but you need an expert that knows that particular product and not only knows it, but understands your business to apply it to the product. And most importantly, like we talked about, training. And they can train your team on how to use it. And so that's probably why it's not working for him. They probably didn't set it up correctly and they didn't have the right training to make it work. So good. Well, hey, what a great conversation, Jason. I know our friends are probably asking the same question I am. How do you get more Jason Kramer in your life? Oh, I think that's about three years away with the cloning. So for now, you can talk to me, the one and only. So the best way to reach me is afterthelead.com. Cultivize, I love the name of our company, but trying to spell that while you're on the treadmill and remember that. That is pretty difficult, I think. So afterthelead.com, you can connect with me on social there. Also, book a call with me. Happy to have a conversation with any of your listeners. Love it. Jason, thank you so much for sharing your heart and your expertise with us today. It's been a fantastic conversation. Thanks, guys. Hey, Larry, what a great conversation. I know you were like, we're really talking about CRM. Yes, we're talking about CRM. And in my reflection, I'll just continue that story when not a year later, my company gave its laptop. I adopted it. I was a champion for it in the organization. Guess what? I became the sales manager. Not too long after that, I was running the entire branch. You go, okay, well, there's some people listening in that go, maybe I don't want, I'm not excited about CRM. Well, if you want to advance your career, one of the best things you can do is become a champion for your CRM on your sales team. I promise you this, that story about the CEO who is frustrated. Look, look at this as a friend. A tool, something to help you sell from the heart, literally. Disciplined habits, follow through. You just go on and on about this. But I look back and go, CRM helped me advance my career quickly in ways that other people were stiff-arming it. And I said, you know what? Let's get on board with this. And I encourage all of our friends to do the same thing. Absolutely. And these are things that business professionals do. And in selling in a post-trust world, I write about an inspirational experience. This signals to people what type of an experience you're going to provide them. Because I will tell you this, Daryl already knows this. We're in a ton of conversations. I take notes in our conversations as we're bringing on new clients and prospecting for business or selling from the heart. The minute our call is done, I go right into our CRM. I enter in the notes because I know if, yeah, it's not going to work. I'm going to do it. I'm going to happen later. This is the things that professionals do. I encourage us all, go back, watch, re-watch, take notes. Jason Kramer's a great guy. It is. Can you imagine if you went to the doctor and the doctor never wrote anything down? And just simple stuff like that. Yeah, we could talk about this forever. Thank you for joining us today. Hey, thanks to everyone who's leaving reviews, sharing this podcast. We really appreciate you. We're committed to bringing you ideas and insights that are going to help you be better at what you do and help you sell from the heart. So stay tuned. We've got great guests coming on throughout the rest of the summer and on into the fall. We really, really appreciate you joining us today. Until next time, keep being genuine, keep being authentic, keep building trust, use your CRM, and most of all, sell from the heart.