Tullar, geopolitik och en inblick i hur ett svenskt företag påverkas i praktiken?

[music] Hello and welcome back! It's Friday again and we have a new episode of Muste Podde Maxa Podde. My name is Daniel Jungsdomhoney and I'm the leader of this podde. We have talked a lot of theory during the last few weeks, and maybe not until the last months. It has been a full focus on the different types of American administration. We have gone through the American economy. We can see that the US has a very high debt. You have a budget under your shadow. Donald Trump has chosen to lower the taxes for many in the US. You have set the US first. As a leader, we have made a resolution that states that the US must lower its taxes. With that, you can't have the same kinds of defense duties as before. Europe, for example, must have increased responsibility for its investments and security. This means that countries like Germany, Sweden, and so on, are making very big investments, or planning very big investments in security. This doesn't just mean bombs, it also means building infrastructure, such as roads, railways, ports, security services, chains, and so on. These investments go up to a very high level. In the US perspective, it means that they must invest less money in security in Europe and focus more on their own economy. After that, we have the Tullars. This much-known press conference where Trump goes through all countries' new Tullars. We want to say how much more will the US take into account products imported into the US. This leads to more or less what we call a Tull-Chaos. This leads to a very big insecurity around what this would actually mean. These investments have changed a little bit from what the US has created. The consequences of this have been that it has been very hard to know how the individual companies are affected. Then we get volatility, we get market fall, we don't really know how the companies will be affected by these Tullars, so we don't really know how many companies will benefit. Then it will be very difficult to determine what a company is worth. We have talked a lot about the company's value in the short-term perspective and the long-term perspective. Then you can say that a company's value is almost 100% of future profits converted into a new value. Then there will be news that makes the company seem to be able to earn more money. Then you value the company, then they go up a little bit. Then there will be news that makes the company seem to be able to earn a little less money and then the company's value falls for future profits. The Tullars contribution to this is that it has been a little uncertain how the individual companies are actually affected. With that, you can say that many investors are drawing a curve towards themselves. You won't be so eager to buy new shares until it becomes a clearer situation. There are people who are a little worried to sell because you think that this will affect negatively. And in the environment where many people might want to sell shares and want to buy, we will get big costs starting. And in some sense, we got almost 20% in a couple of days, full of the Swedish-American stock market. Then there will be a little new information about the stock market has gone up again. What has happened now is that we also go into what is called a "report period". And the company reported their profit development quite simply by quarter. We have quarter reports. And now we have come into the quarter report. The company has started to report how they are affected by the Tullars and how they may think that they will affect the Tullars. And with that, it becomes a little clearer what the effect will be for the individual company. And with the addition of that, we have actually invited a Christian Blomgren to the pod today. He is CEO of VD for the company Enkom. And the company Enkom makes such an interesting product as a tilt rotator. And you can say that it is a product you put on a gravel machine. Longest before the gravel machine starts, you put a product that makes you can change the angle of the shovel so that you can dig in 45 degrees. And you can do a lot of different types of digging, so that you could not do earlier. You can also use the gravel machine in a new way and show. Christian will describe this a little closer. But for those of you who are still a little unsure and think that this is a little subtle what Enkom actually does. So I suggest a little search on the internet so you can see how the product actually looks. And since they have a product that is used in the gravel industry, the product will be used when building roads, railway roads, forest use and so on. You sell this product over large parts of the world. You are an additional company, you grow pretty fast. You have worked in the US, Germany, Holland and so on. Which makes it very difficult for Enkom to understand what is going on in the world. For example, you have to sell the gravel machine. The production of your product is also difficult because you import or put together products from different parts of the world, which in turn seem to be affected by these different trade wars. And Enkom and Christian will be our practical case today to understand how the theories we have talked about before now affect and look at reality. So I think this will be a super exciting episode in all ways and ways. Because there is something like that when we talk about a theory at an aggregated level. You can break it down and look at it. How does it affect different companies? Is it like this as we say? Or is there something else that we should take into account? I can spoil the conclusion already now that our theories seem to fit pretty well. In the short term, there is a little uncertainty around how the tolls will actually hit. Investors may stop or wait a little bit to make investments. But the long-term case of major investments in Europe, for example, is there. We have talked here about the fact that in the short term, there is often a lot of uncertainty, and there will be a lot of action courses and so on. Because in some sense, we do not really know what is going on. With a fairly short time interval, there will be a little more information security. Now we are in that situation. And in a slightly longer term, and this is what seems to affect the budget over time, that you get your 7-8-9% and so on. It is about a little uncertainty. Whatever happens, the company can adapt to that, to its more or less excellent benefits. And that is why we are going to be a little longer-term on the budget. I want to remind you that before we say, invite Krister to the studio, if nothing of what we say in this podcast should be understood as an individualized advice, you do not know anything about what you are listening to. And all the value papers, actions that are found are connected with risks. And of that, you should always be careful when investing in these periods that we are in now. Manifest the risks in a fantastic way. I also think you should be super confident when you do your needs analysis. So it's easy to get to the point, how should my savings look? What are my goals? And how long do I have for those goals? So that you can structure your investment portfolio in the right way. Then these periods with a short-term uncertainty, and support budget and so on, much, much easier to get through. And you can also add that all professional investors, more or less, they always talk to someone, an investment committee, a colleague or something else, before you make a change in your portfolio. You document the change and so on in a very reasonable way. And that's because you don't want to make a single mistake in your investments. And as a private person, you should note down a bit of that and think a bit the same way. I'm going to find someone to talk to before I make a change in my portfolio. I'm going to define my goal and I'm going to write down why I make different changes. This process leads many times to the fact that you may not do all the changes you have thought about. But when you do them, you're a bit more on the note of why you take the initiative. With that said, tell me if you have any advice before you do something. We are in an uncertain period, so be careful. Now we're going from theory to practice, by inviting Krister Blomgren, WD Enkom. Join us, honey. Welcome to Maxa Podden, Krister. Thank you very much. Krister, have you ever had a pod before? I have a few pods, some local, and then there were some other pod that I don't remember exactly. They didn't make a big difference. We hope that this pod makes a little bigger difference. We have talked a lot in this pod about the American education policy, as you can call it. Donald Trump went to the election to set up the USA in the first room. And that has had consequences during the year, in the form of the beginning of January-February-March. The American representative in Europe said that Europe must have increased responsibility for its own security. And it didn't last long before the press conference was held. It was the global "tull" package. With that, the world became more or less insecure. And it became difficult to judge how this would affect the individual business. Krister, you are here now because you released a report for Enkom yesterday. And you have to say a few nasty numbers and updated data. We will ask you a bit about that. But first of all, Krister, what is Enkom? Enkom is a company that was founded in 1990 by Stiga Engström. We do, as you can say, a trade to the farmers. We do trade with our full-time fast parties. You can do so much more with the farmers than you could do before. Effectively, you do your job 95% faster. You can take advantage of the labor force outside the machine. You can also take advantage of other machines in that way. We simply make the machine a food processor that can do jobs that they couldn't do earlier. And that's why the machine is the fastest growing machine in the so-called yellow industry. What is the yellow industry for something? Construction and construction machines, if you put it that way. You can suddenly dig a lot of different angles. Yes, you can dig on the sides of the machine, back and forth, to a circle. It leads to that you don't have to move the machine as much. You can work much faster. You can do finesse digging, you can do tough digging. You can replace tools, you can take pallets and chargers, or chargers that come or chargers. And you can put on a vibrato plate that you normally put on a gubbe that you can hold in there and dig. You can do a lot more with our full-time fast parties. If you have a gray machine, are you partly between a shovel and an arm? Yes, as I said, it's like handling. If you have a plastered handle, that's what it is like before. And then you get something that is actually even better than the handle. The more you throw, the more difficult it is with your own handle. It takes a stop after a throw. But you get the same function as you get with the handle. You can do so much more in that way. The countertop is big in the north, where 90% of all gray machines have a countertop. But in the world it's a small product, so it's a classic Swedish invention that will come out in the world. And when you talk about efficiency improvements, you can say from the system before these rotators. What does it actually mean? What does the improvement consist of? I look forward to the fact that earlier you had a gray machine, and then there was a guy or a girl with spades around and around and helped to dig a little here and there and so on. That type of person has been changed, or disappeared, you can say, in the same way. What are the changes that are happening? After you don't have to move the machine, after you can dig all the directions, and you can just stay with the machine there and dig all the time, then you do the job, and through the cut it's a bit different. Some things are in the higher part, but through the cut you do the job 25% faster with the gray machine. Then, as you say, you can replace one or two guys or girls with spades. And you can also replace, if you look in Sweden, what is called skidsteer or bobcat, there is almost no such thing as replacement, and it has replaced the machine. So return on investment is very fast, but if you just look at it 25% faster, then about nine months are just on that thing. Can you replace a guy with spades? Yes, it's about 12 months, so you can feel it in the end, if you buy one more totator. If you can replace another machine, then it's day one. So for us, it's about getting the world to believe in what we're saying, and prove it to them that it is, and then it will be, and with the work force that is out there in the world, you have to effectively see and make it more productive. So we are a little convinced that it will take off. Then it is perhaps the most conservative branch in the world, so it doesn't make it super easy to successfully overcome all of them. And even some countries, this business model where they pay per hour, and then we say, you will do the job for seven hours instead of ten hours, you should just get paid for seven hours, then you start changing the business model and pay for the job instead and so on. So there is a little resistance for it to take off, but with the hard-earned money that will stand up especially in the western world, it will come. Can you describe how you have grown the distribution? Where are you selling today, and how do you sell this totator? We have gone a lot before 2012, so it was 90% of our income from the Nordic countries. And last year, it was only 34% of the income from the Nordic countries. So we are opening up our own totes in these countries, because we need to have those companies that go around and explain to the customers how they can do business in a different way and do it in a better way. And then with mass demo days and everything like that, then we sell it through the distribution led, or the cat distribution, or the Volvo distribution, and so on. Then we have a lot of collaboration with OM, i.e. grain machine manufacturers, such as Caterpillar, Volvo, Kobelco, Litachi, Matsuura, and the others, on the preparation machines, and so on. Today we have our own companies in 16 countries in the world, from Japan to the United States and Canada. And then we have a number of European countries. What are the biggest countries? Europe is a big group with the Nordic countries. 80% of our income comes from Europe and the Nordic countries. And Sweden is still the biggest country in the world. But France has high income, the Germans have grown very quickly. The Netherlands has had a high penetration in, where we have now passed what we call a tipping point, if you are a product of fusion curvy, that you need to pass 20% of the population out of the machines because it will start to become a new standard. That's when it really starts to take off. And it will become a demand from companies like Skanska, NCCA, and others in Europe, that in our workplace you have to have a till-trotator, otherwise it's not effective enough. So it's important to increase the penetration rate in these countries all the time. When did you find a conda in Krise? We found each other in 2008. I worked at Deloitte, and worked a lot with international companies, And Stiga Engström had started to open up companies in Germany and England, and I had been given the evidence that they needed some more qualified forces to save the economy. So I came in as a consultant, worked as a consultant for two years, and then we were appointed at the end of 2009 as an economic director or CFO. And then in the summer of 2011 we had a VD on one conda for the whole group. If I think back, you came in 2008 and you have worked on it today. At that time, as a fellow bus driver, we have noticed that we have gone through the financial crisis. In principle, you will come in when the financial crisis is over, and then we have had a Euro crisis, a Greek crisis, we have had a degrade of the USA, we have had Brexit, and we have had Covid, and what else can I say? The financial crisis, or the security crisis, if you want to guide us through these years, how has it been that the company has grown under these conditions? Have you faced any major challenges? Yes, the crisis can be good for the company as well. You often start to think about new things in the crisis, and what we have actually done in the company with some major crises, have we chosen to sit down on these crises? For example, we took the other generation to the trotate under the financial crisis / Euro crisis, which we launched between 2011 and 2014, the other generation. And there we had incredibly good feedback when I got the technical lift compared to our competitors. We had a number of years where we grew very well, started to come out in the world also a little bit, and that was actually from 2014, we started with Frankrike, and then we took new countries all the time, we had Laktyskland and England, actually normal, under the financial crisis, because it costs too much money from 2014 we started this international journey outside of the north. We have grown a lot in the north, we have taken a lot of market share with the fact that we have this technical height, so we became very strong, and it has been the heart and lungs that have pumped, that we have had the opportunity to go into new markets all the time. Then we built up, just because it would not cost too much to go into new markets, we made sure that the sales teams would be extended to sales and services support. All other functions were central, such as economy, IT, market share, everything was central, in a way that it is quite easy to start small and start to build more of these. And the crisis is hard, but with COVID, it was very uncomfortable what to do with it, but it was just a crisis for two or three months or something, so then it turned into a crazy question, and it led to supply chain problems, but there were no problems with sales, there were problems with the future, things and things, and then there came the inflation and the high rates, so everything stopped building. There were also many of these countries, where the birth rate question came up, "Why are we building?" "Why are we building today?" For one generation, half the population came, as they discussed in Korea and Japan, for example. So we ran through a lot of things, you know, if you got knocked out, you got a lot of pictures, there are a lot of interesting questions and angles you need to learn, in respect to the country. And then there are all people, so basically you can sell me the same thing, but you need to tweak it a little differently depending on the challenges of respect to the country. Could you say that a little bit of crisis is the natural condition? There are always a lot of things going on. You can actually say that, so then you usually get some calm years in between, but now it feels like since COVID it hasn't been a normal year. We usually say now when we go back and look, but if we go back to the last normal year, I would say 2019. That's the last normal year we can find them. If we were to talk about the Trump administration and the development of the Tullar, increased security in Europe and so on, how does that affect you? And how does that affect you in the future too? Well, it has affected us but it creates a new moment of uncertainty again. I would like to say that we have a war-like crisis that we have learned to live with in some way, and now we are creating a new world vision or something. So we think it's positive that Europe maybe will be tougher, stand a little more on your own legs. We are not so bad, I think, as everyone says here in Europe, I think we are actually pretty good at a lot of things so I think it will be good in the long term, in the short term, you can create some words. In the US we became these tariffs, it became like a wet filter, because you got a little bit of information on what these Tullars really mean. We are going to count all the prices with like 25%. We did that, and now we have adapted, when we have tried to get more data around the Tullars, and at first the American service men were able to help guide us, and we have actually been able to do that, we have created a number of weeks ago here in the US, we have now been able to do that with new tariffs, and we were able to do that, so we have counted them. It will not be a great effect for us, but in the short term it will be somewhere around 5% higher than the price we need to do because of these tariffs. And in the long term, in the short term, there will be some storms, and so in the US, absolutely, but in the long term, it is good for us, everything that has become more expensive has to be less effective, and more productive. So the big machines have become more expensive, and it will lead to the need to look at and make it more effective. I hope that in the long term, we will see that as a hacky curve, or we will see how long the tariffs are there, and everything like that, we do not know that either, but our customers are very strong Trump supporters. It is not possible to have a discussion about whether it is good. Yes, exactly. If you think about it, how did you already know what the tariff would be, did you get it as a cost-effect, what will the price be against the customer, or did you get information on it in any other way? No, we got to look at that data that came up all the time, and try to calculate what is inside this, because it is the steel price that we are looking at, about 25% on steel. And then it is not on the extension we have made on the steel, but it is the original steel price that will be 25% tariff on. And there, when you fully understood that, it took a week or something like that. And then I got to think about how much steel we have in our products, how much is that in weight, and how much is that on sale, we had to find a law that the steel costs this, so it was a difference if it was the original steel, or the original steel, or you understand. And then it came to this, on everything that is not inside the steel, of course it was 20%, then the young people are 13, so it was just 10%. So then we got to think about the pieces and find this cut, and then we will, we sell a lot of packages, but it will be that it will be lost at the time, we will take it back to the carousel to find when we put the cut price on sale. So you report, what do you say, you break up your product and report the parts of the product to the American authorities? Yes. It sounds a bit advanced. Yes, we have to do that in that way, because they contain different steel products. And then you get a cut cut increase, and that was about 5%. Yes. And what you say, the cost increase, it is not seen in the long-term effects, lower the demand, for example, or lower your margin, but you just put it on the point. We put it on, because we went out, we were pretty fast, because if it would be 20%, and the steel bits, we would have said, we have 25%. So it became, psychologically it became good, we have 25%, because now everyone thinks it is only 5%, that it was not so dangerous. If we had started to say it was 5%, we would have complained, but it was not so dangerous. So it actually means that the effective cuts, which actually become cuts, may in some way not be as dangerous as it was experienced at first glance, but that it is a bit of a tricky process to handle there. Do you see in the future that these cuts will be existing under a long time? It is what is most difficult to say. I mean, he wants to be a deal maker, and I think there will certainly be a certain pressure that there will be zero cuts between Europe and the US. So I would guess that there will be no life. I do not think so. There is China in the song, if you can guess. So, I think that I do not think so for a long time that we will have cuts on our products, I do not think so. But in the end, as I understand you, you do not see it as a huge problem if everything that is imported becomes a bit more expensive, then it becomes a much more expensive way for the users. And then they have to find a new way to do things. So products and solutions that mean efficiency profit can be prioritized and get higher after the question. The oil is very large, and then it becomes much more expensive. And therefore, you have to look at how you are going to do this in a smarter way. And if there is inflation of the tariff, and those who can save better than me, then it leads to higher wages for them. And then it becomes even more important to do business in that way. There have been other important questions in this case. There have been quite big value changes. And the dollar has weakened a lot, the relative price. How does that affect you? Of course, it affects us as well. And the advantage is that the costs of wages in the US goes down in terms of the economy. And as long as the US is a small market with a small contribution if you have to express yourself on the result, then the dollars we use in the big part of the US, it will not be a great effect for us in that way. But when you sell your rotators to the US, then you produce them in Swedish crowns, and you deliver them in dollars. How can I say that? Yes. Our daughter company in the US buys them in dollars. So we get dollars for our Swedish production company. And we get that, of course. But we have a Swedish price list in the background. So they buy it for a higher dollar cost than what it was before. So in that way, the country is in that way. But we have to look at how long our effect is. We don't want to change the price list before we have seen where the dollar actually is. Now it has taken a lot, and very quickly down. We may have a disappointment that it is moving up again. Because it has a pretty big bearing on inflation in the US. So in any case, a dollar fluctuation is a bit annoying in this situation for the Americans. I can think of that in a few scenes. If we release the US, then we can say that the current crisis, which has had a lot of focus in recent times, has both good and bad sides for you, but in the bottom, let's look at what came before this. That you are talking about increased security in Europe, and with that huge infrastructure, big security package, which many times are about infrastructure subsidies, roads, trains, ports, and so on. Especially from Germany, which took a pretty big step and announced subsidies. But later on, even Sweden, which says that we are going to invest in the future, how do you see that this affects you? That will be positive for us. Germany is the fastest growing market for us in Europe. We had this big mess, the biggest mess in the building, in Munich, and there was a lot of infrastructure everywhere. They changed from just having an age-old party that is now going to the entire solution with territories. And then Germany put so much on infrastructure, railways, and the construction, and such things. It will be super positive for us. Europe is a key market for us, and where the volumes are already quite high. If you get that help, then you can really deal with things. And Germany is the biggest European market for machines. This is a good year, 35,000 grams of machines in Germany. And if we are able to do that, then it can really be an interesting and good growth for us. How do you see in the future that this is going to be played out? Do you see in the future that you are getting a relatively moving order, or do you see it as something that is going to come up? I think that people are quite simple reasons. Do you see that it looks pretty good here? I have a job today, and with these packages that will come they will not come from 2026 again in Germany. But then you feel confident that I will have a job next year. I dare to invest in a new machine, I dare to invest in a new technology. So in that way I think there will be a good effect of conversion in that way. And that is what we have seen in Sweden, among other things, also here. These policies that have been led to a more positive view among our customers. They needed to change machines, they could count on a different way when he changed the machine. Now I see a little bit that the impact with the increase in security that is easy with these trade wars from the USA makes it possible to wait again a little bit. So it will be a little exciting to follow what is happening with these games. I mean, there are not that many people who are working on stocks. You want to know what is happening. If you are confident, you dare to invest. Then you could say that the short-term that there is a little insecurity in the air is, what do you say, a little bit careful and a little bit careful because it is not super, super dangerous. But then you can say that within a relatively short time you will have a little more information and then you see that this takes a little more time. There are different Netherlands where we come very far on this Product-to-Fusion curve. They have had a government earlier that has been very strict with environmental issues and they have changed from a year ago to a government that is a little less strict around environmental issues. And it has made the building start again. And now we see that the Netherlands is a very positive trend. Even Belgium, the UK has had a positive trend after Brexit when it suddenly got a problem to take up work force or cheap work force. Then it had to focus on new technology and the operators got more power and see what they want to have and so on. There are many factors that play into it but the security is that makes it a little more catch-up effect than it is at all. There is also a big X and that is Ukraine where you discuss different types of operations and it might not be a clear peace operation but it might still land in and it might be realistic some form of an official war end that you stop shooting at each other and maybe start building up again. How do you see that that would affect? It is also both the security part and the end of the war but there is also Europe helping to build up a lot of Ukraine and they will have a great need of machines and everything so it should be very positive in many ways for us. To sum up a little you could say that in any sense with the American administration who is playing in Europe around security it means in any sense that you get a higher price on products in the US but it might not force a need to increase efficiency and therefore increase demand on products and services that increase efficiency and therefore lower production costs and we look at the development in Europe even if it is in many ways that we should think about security and so on it is still net and positive for you because you will need to make pretty big investments and then you will have part of the idea and then we have a little unknown factor that we are hoping for in Ukraine who in turn could take this even further. If you think about it when you go and put it on and then you get a little untimely I am convinced that the question will come as you said there are so many parts that speak for that and now with this increased hunting with the security part and the defense industry there will be a lot of money and that is where we can get new supply chain problems especially in China, the US they would have to get support from there but also we have a lot of local in the north but the defense industry in the whole field can also lead to that many of our suppliers get a lot of work there that can lead to challenges in the supply chain again as there was time after the pandemic how do we handle these parts in a good way? How important is China for you? As a market or... I think that you can buy things from or use them in the production process Yes We are very small, we buy directly from China but we have suppliers that buy most electronic parts come from China you have to be honest and that is where you get a little uncomfortable what will happen when they require licenses to deliver things so that they don't have to go to the US and that can be a little hacky the curve before you get these things and our suppliers have gotten these licenses to get these things and so on so there is a problem in that way Kristian, when I look at a company I see that you have a high P/E that means that you are being evaluated as a growth company Yes Do you see how long can you continue growing? I usually say at least 20 years you should be able to do that and do you always grow as a niche company or do you see that you are spreading the production lines? Yes, we will be able to spread and there is so much now we are very focused on what is going on on the machine and that it is something that fits together with Tiltrotator we also have our fast party the hydraulic fast party that you can look at what fits together with it if we do a spread on the machine there is much more work we could have and spread our work so we can grow if you look at the north where we are more or less fully penetrated there is more different types of work so we can increase the turnover there but Europe is still in the P/E with Tiltrotator but also different types of work so that we can spread and increase the entire base even more Why don't you do this development in the north a little bit we are still in the we are in the end at the beginning of our journey and the next step when you change your team you can have several legs now you have fully established new countries and find people who are good enough to drive all these parts now we maybe start to build a larger base central with people who could work to take these different other legs or segments I will go into the demolition for example I think it is a growth journey we need to do a mental journey in the organization so you want to be there as long as possible to not lose focus a little bit but it is also we need to bring in more people when we start a new leg to drive that leg the times you have been maybe you have been to try too much we have now the third generation we have invested a lot of money so that we will be stronger in this crisis and when we start rolling out we launched the first model here in december and we will come with the other model in december after that it is also easier to use R&D to look in other areas Christe, do you have an IDRO background? Yes, I have played basketball and coached basketball at the highest level in Sweden and Norway at what level did you play yourself? I played in Södertälje when I played in Jämtland then I coached here in Jämtland and coached in Norgen and called Kongsberg What can you take with you from the IDRO in your current job? Very much, I think partially I build teams and how to work with people in that way but also the habits and results in that way here we play a game for the public once a quarter when we release the report there we play once a week and everyone is looking at what you have done and how you have been analysed in that way you are used to live under that pressure which I think is very useful and I think the IDRO is a very good school to work towards goals and results and dare place high goals and things like that and know that you won't be there if you don't put in time How do you experience that? I don't follow basketball that much I was born with very short legs so it was never my sport but I understand you have become much better at basketball we get some stars that have moved to the American league How big is that for you? It's really fun that once the love IDRO gets bigger and bigger in Sweden and I agree that we have got a lot of good players a couple that are in the NBA some that are very high European level and it's really fun and they are much more good than what we were in my time even if we were at the national level we actually had bigger success during that time when I played where we were in the US and something else that we didn't manage to take us to but it's also been with Phonar Jogoslavien divided up into many countries and Russia divided up into many or Sweden divided up into many countries that are much tougher both of them were big basketball players so it's been tougher to come along in that way I can think of it as a Swedish basketball player when you reach an international level it's a lot about being underdog all the time Do you like to be in underdog position? No I think I work with a lot as a coach you have to you have to train that you can think that you always win because if you're always underdog and everyone is really happy that you can do something then you will never be the best I think that we at Enkon have a very clear mentality that we are we are number one we are the best that all of us should reach I like that mentality it drives us a lot more underdog is a classic Swedish favorite in that way that you don't want to have too much pressure but I think we should have pressure we are good we should stand for that we are the best the others should try to reach us How do you convince the organization about that? our focus is a lot on R&D innovation that we should have as the others and that is a part of it and then we show the results and everything that we get better results than the others we are bigger than the others we meet a lot the market share countries and other things and where we are not we are in some countries where we are not the biggest and then it is a big focus that we should be the biggest we should be the one that has the biggest market share in all countries that is our ambition and with that tough mentality I think that some of us don't like that but we need to find those now you have a very different job so to speak how much do you think about health and motion and so on I feel better about this in the last years I have started to train a bit more but it is more about going to gym and then I like to go out for slalom that is going up to the years but don't think about anything else when you go out you need to focus on that I think that is the perfect connection to health and motion Christy, it has been great to talk with you you have put color on our theories in a fantastic way I thank you for that you want to set up thank you very much it was really fun and a nice discussion that we were going to sit here but I thought that you would like to have a long time how do you look in the evening my son is coming home from Stockholm so I am going to pick them up on the plane and then we are going to eat some lunch and have a look at some good food then we are going up to the annual weekend the annual session there are a lot of artists including William Bryant and Simon Seperti I wish you and your family a fantastic weekend see you soon thank you (translation) (translation)