Tucker Carlson: "This World Is Not Run By Humans!" Trump Has Supernatural Powers | Jack Neel Podcast

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Seeing fired by CNN, MSNBC, and Fox, he's built a platform more powerful than all three combined, with the goal of telling the truth in a world full of lies. There'd never been a coronavirus fact that had been successful. By the way, it was made with the boarded baby parts, also true. People kept telling me that when I was at Fox, I was like, "I come on now. Nothing could be that evil." In this episode, we'll break down the war he says America was manipulated into. Because the blackmail machine he believes runs Washington, and question whether he is telling the truth about everything, or running the greatest psychological operation in media history. There's really only one thing I know that I would never tell anybody. Yeah, I'd be killed before I told anybody. I said, "Well, why?" and he goes, "Because you could end humanity with it." Tucker Carlson. Welcome to the Jagno podcast. Psych to be here. Tucker, a good place to start here. Halfway through 2026, and this year we've had the Epstein vials, the Iran War, and the UFO vials. Which one do you think is the distraction, or is it all of them? Well, I think they're probably, well, first let me just say, I've had my nose so close to this glass. I don't have a lot of perspective on it, so it's probably a question if I'm still around you should ask me in five years, but I think they're all inherently significant. They're all inherently meaningful. They're all real on some level, and they are all used as distractions from each other and from other things. But on the most basic level, they're real. I mean, there was a guy called Jeffrey Epstein. We don't know a great deal about him, but we know enough to conclude that he was a connector of well-known people, some of them criminals, all of them in some sense above the law. He was not running anything. He was an employee of somebody else. We don't know who that is. He was enormously rich. We don't know where the money came from. But we know from the snapshot that we got from the vials that have been released that, wow, there's something really big going on here, and we can only kind of see it silhouette. We know of UFOs, despite, you know, 80 years of being told they're fake, they're not fake. The U.S. government has been tracking this for a long time. There's an appear to be a consensus on what they are. Lots of people claim to know. I don't know who's proved any kind of positive identification, but their existence has been proven. And we know the U.S. government has been gravely concerned about it, concerned enough to lie, since the Second World War, again, we're not sure why. So that's real. That's, of course, objectively the biggest of all the stories, because it shows that there's something outside of any human control. And then the Iran War is ending the American Empire, either fortunately or unfortunately, but it is the beginning or certainly the acceleration of the process of the unwinding of this enormous empire that we have, that most Americans aren't even aware that we have. And it's a reshuffling of power globally. Iran will emerge as a great power, and it probably always was, and we just didn't acknowledge it for various reasons, and lots of things could happen on the way to that. So some horrible things could happen, and I pray they don't, but they could. So again, all three topics are inherently meaningful, significantly, historically significant, and all three are used to distract from the most obvious of all truths, which is the people running the West, not just the United States, but the West, are totally incompetent and have no idea how to solve the big problems, aren't even really trying, and are basically rotten individuals who hate the people they lead. That's kind of the story they'd like to distract us from, but it's so obvious that I think people are starting to figure it out. You said, "There's a spiritual war going on, and you can't understand anything that's happening unless you understand that." Do you think the people who seek to run the world are chasing power, money, or something else? Well, everyone's, I mean, money is a form of power. I mean, beyond the extent to which your material needs are met, you have enough to eat somewhere to sleep, you know, promise it like a future for your kids, like there are some things that are totally normal and legitimate to want, but beyond that, if you've got a billion dollars and you want another, what are you really looking for? You're looking for power over other people, so they're all the same, people want power. It's an instinct that's, I think, native to people. I think all people feel it, and wise people try to restrain it, you know, try to keep that under control, just like you with any other desire, lust, you know, waitress is hot, I'm not going to try and sleep with the waitress, I'm a married man, you know, that's bad. And I think we recognize that in, I mean, I would like to eat donuts and pizza all day and have, but I kind of try not to because it's not good for you, right? So you try to strain your appetites, but power is one of those, the desire for power is one of those impulses that we don't really recognize as much as we should as, well, as a sin, really, and certainly as a trap. And so I think the people in charge are the people in whom that has been the least tame to that impulse, like they're, and this is not true of all of our leaders, just about 99.5% of them, it's about that. It's only about that. And that's that, by the way, explains why there is almost a one-to-one connection between the people in charge and like the most screwed up people you know, you know, like if you look at 535 members of Congress House and Senate and you know, gave them an honest questionnaire like how's your personal life? Does your wife like you? When was the last time you had like sex within marriage? Where your porn habits like you would find, this was like a way more damaged group than average. If you took 535 Americans and 535 members of Congress, you did a blind creepiness test. You would, you would find that members of Congress much creepier. I think that's true. Do you think that's by design? It's, I don't know if it's by design, well, it may be, that's kind of the deeper level that I'm trying to, and I don't know the answer, it may be by design. But it's certainly, you know, their personal emptiness, their need to fill that void inside is the reason they are where they are. You know, well-adjusted people have no desire to impose their will on strangers. You know, you want to impose your will on your kids so they become better people, right? But you don't, you don't take like pleasure, you don't derive a thrill from ordering other people around. That's why would you do, why would you want to do that? You want to do that because you've failed in your actual life so you're projecting outward onto other people. So, there's a direct connection like wounded people want to inflict with their inflicting on us, on others. They, they want to control other people. Normal people don't feel that way. I hope you don't feel that way. And if you don't, it's a sign you're probably on the right path. All right. I was going to obey me. Have you ever wake up thinking that? Not personally. No. Good. Yeah. Recently you apologized on your show for telling your audience to vote for Trump. It's June now and as of last night, there's a peace deal with Iran. Do you regret telling your audience to vote for Trump still? And do you think this Iran war is over? Well, briefly on me and when I regret, I regret a lot of things as I think any adult does and should. You don't dwell on it, you can't change it, but I think it's important to acknowledge what you did wrong. Say it out loud and apologize. I hold my kids to that standard. I try to hold myself to that standard. So, it wasn't apologizing so much for telling people to vote for Trump. I didn't tell them anybody to vote. I almost never tell anybody to do anything. But what I did was I vouched for his sincerity on these questions and clearly he was not sincere. So, or maybe he was sincere in some dramatic event that we don't know much about. He just changed his views, whatever it is. I did my best to sell Trump, the idea of Trump, two people on the basis of claims that are now clearly false. So, I did that. If I sell you a mortgage at 4% interest and it readjusted 12%, I've sold it to under false pretenses. And that's exactly what happened. Now, why did it readjusted 12%? I don't really know. Like, what did the Fed do? I don't know. But it happened so I'm sorry about that. But that doesn't mean I'm not rude. First of all, I don't hate Trump. I've always liked Trump. I'm a shallow man. I like vulgar jokes. I'm easily entertained. I laugh easily. I like other people. I like almost everybody. He's hardly the most evil person I like. I could shock you by telling you the actually evil people I've had amazing dinners with because I just enjoy people. Okay. I'm not bragging about that. I probably should be ashamed of it. That's who I am. So it's not that I'm mad at Trump personally. It's that I just-- just grieve for what his decisions in the Middle East have done to the country. And not just the world with Iran, but being a slave of Israel. What? You're an American, dude. This is humiliating to you, not that I care. But to me, I do care in my country. I care a lot. You can be a slave to a foreign power. Stop. So that's why I'm upset. But I'm rooting for him every day as I would root for anybody leading my country. And we lost the war. That's why we're settling. We lost in the sense that we didn't achieve any of our goals in Iran as down more powerful than it was when we started. But we could lose much worse than we did by continuing. And the outcome would not change. We just a lot more people would die. And our power would be even further eroded. So I'm glad. I'm glad for any settlement. I felt that way the very first day. OK, this was a massive mistake. Let's get out of it with some loss of face, with some humiliation, but it's better than the alternative. So I'm really grateful. And I'm grateful for the people who actually did it, meaning JD Vance, and the people behind-- people working in the administration who are not understanding, calling attention to themselves, who have tried to make this better. And I'm grateful to them. And I'm grateful to the president for seeing reality. You're going to tank the US economy, the global economy, by the way, which is interconnected if you continue. So you have to stop and it looks like he has. And will he restrain Israel? They don't want it to stop. They have a different agenda. And is he strong enough to keep them in line? I hope so. Do you think Israel won the war? I think Israel lost worst of all. I'm mad that Israel has so much control over the United States. I'm enraged. But I'm not really mad at Israel. Like they're a tiny country with no resources that is sort of doing whatever they can to impose their will on their neighbors. OK, I mean, I'm mad about the genocide in Gaza, for sure. But I understand Israel's perspective. They don't have a lot. And they're trying to be superpower. They have nuclear weapons, which they stole from us, but they have them. I'm not even mad about that. I'm mad that we allowed that material to be stolen. And I'm mad that the US Congress and the president over generations have allowed Israel to have all this control. But I don't think Israel has any idea what's good for Israel. I don't think they're good at understanding their own national interest. And I think they box themselves into an incredibly dangerous situation. And I think this is their nightmare scenario. Like they wanted to run in chaos. They just wanted a civil war on Iran. Where Iranians just kill each other. They're immoral, totally immoral, evil, I would say. That's evil. But that's what they wanted. And they got the opposite. They got an Iran, which in just a few months, became more powerful. Iran did not control shipping through the straight-of-hormones on February 27th. Now it does. And it's going to in the future, no matter what we do. Iran is obviously in this very tense situation with the six Gulf states right across the water. It blew up a bunch of them, caused real damage to many of those GCC states. And now some of those states are seeking accommodation with Iran. So Iran is more powerful globally, because everyone's like, oh yeah, you control like a huge chunk of the world's commodity trade. I guess we didn't-- didn't have a map. Didn't know you could do that. It's also stupid. Get a freaking map, dude. They got 1,500 kilometers of coastline along the eastern aperture of the most important body of water on the planet. They can close it if they want. No one thought of this. Anyway, now the world knows. And they control it with Iran. But basically, they veto power overrun. They're exercising it right now. So we know they have veto power. And a bunch of the Arab states, which have really hated Iran, like for real, on an emotional level, too, are like, no, we have to be in relationship with Iran. Well, your Israel, which seeks to control the entire Middle East, wants to Germany in the Middle East. And this is the worst thing that has ever happened to you. We're not defunding Hezbollah. Israel can't-- they killed Nasrallah. They killed 125 leaders of Hezbollah. It still exists. They're still bombing Israel. So in no sense have they won, like they've lost in every way. Now, on one level, you could be like, well, it serves them right. They started this war, which they did. And this is what you get when you get way over your skis. And you don't care about other people. And you kill innocents. And start off the war by murdering of 80-something-year-old religious cleric. Like what? That's barbaric behavior. And you're getting the punishment you deserve. I get that perspective. But I'm sincere when I say, I feel sorry for him. I know a lot of Israelis. And I like them. I think they were misled by their leaders. I think they just got so puffed up in their heads. Like, we're in charge now. We'd have to take it. We can only be safe if we kill everyone who just likes us. That doesn't work. You can't kill everyone who dislikes you. And by the way, the more people you kill, the more people dislike you. It doesn't work. And so I was here after 9/11. I saw America go through a similar kind of spell where we were like, you know, muzz-- we have to kill all Muslims because 9/11, because 19 Arabs with box cutters was also stupid in retrospect. But I believed it. I was like all on board to kill the Muslims. And I said it on TV. I know. It's ridiculous now. But I thought that. And I was like, go, Muslim killers. That'll make us safe. So I'm more sympathetic maybe than most people to the way I think a lot of people in Israel feel. But they're about to wake up from this delusion. And it's going to be very painful for them because they are isolated in the world. There's only one ally in the world. It's us. Most Americans have no interest in being allies with Israel. Our relationship with them has really hurt the United States. Americans are figuring that out. Congress hasn't figured it out. But over time, a short period of time, it will not be acceptable for an American politician to send weapons to Israel. That's just not. I mean, when the details of the genocide and Gaza come out, they're not getting off. They're not going to escape responsibility for that. You can't commit genocide. The Nazis committed genocide. The Hutus committed genocide didn't get away with it. You don't get away with it. They're not going to get away with it. And neither will any of the people who made excuses for it, who paid for it, who sent weapons there, who gave them diplomatic cover, which is like a lot of US government officials. And all of them are going to be stained by that. Just as Nazi collaborators were stained. And the Catholic priests who cooperated in the killing of Tutsis in '94 and Rwanda were stained. Justice is real. And it's delayed, but it's never delayed permanently. And they have committed horrible atrocities against civilians. And so I feel sorry for them. I don't think they think like if they just pretend that it didn't happen or the real criminals or the people who criticize us for it, their anti-Semites. That works for like 20 minutes. Doesn't work for 20 years. And so I think they're in serious trouble, serious trouble. And I think they can feel it kind of, and which is why they're getting hysterical. And I got it. I got it. Why do you think Trump decided to in the war right now? 'Cause he's staring down the barrel of like commodities prices that are not sustainable. Trump is super sophisticated about certain things and obviously buffoonish in other ways. But he's not stupid and he's not senile. It's just not true. I would love to think he's senile and that's why he did this. He's not senile. And he understands that, you know, you can manipulate commodities markets and financial markets and they have. They certainly have for a while, but not forever. And I think a lot of Americans don't understand how globalized everything is. And so you hear people say, we're energy independent. We have the oil and gas necessary to run a society of 350 million people, which is true. We do. But that's not the way it works. These things are priced on an international market. Brent crude is not American oil. So it doesn't matter. Unless you were to like shut down, basically shut down our borders to commerce or certainly to energy commerce and just say, you're not allowed to sell American crude oil or natural gas outside our borders. Maybe you could pull that up, but no one's gonna do that. So a disruption in oil that's bound for South Korea or China or Japan, Europe, that affects us. And Trump knew that, obviously he knows that. But I think there's a sense in which he kind of convinced himself that wasn't true with all the posturing about, well, we've got our oil and we've got Venezuela oil. Like he just kept repeating it, including to me so much that I think he just felt like it's gonna be fine. We're gonna decapitate their leadership structure and the country's gonna collapse. And like I never defend our intel agencies or 18 intel agencies, basically CIN and I say, but I will say in this case, they told him. No, you know, Ron is not a dictatorship despite what they tell you on Fox News. It's not a dictatorship. Decision's not made by one guy, they're made by committee. And not only are you made by committee, they're embedded in the structure. So you can kill the entire top echelon of leadership in Iran and they just be replaced by the next guys who would make the same decisions. And that's literally what happened. That's literally what happened. You know, Israel penetrated Iran very deeply in kind of an amazing way. And so they were able to locate and kill like the whole leadership, not into whole leadership, but you know, scores of them were assassinated. And the country didn't collapse and the government kept going as even a little bit more hard line. Now, the opposite of the intended effect, so Trump saw that and he's, you know, he, he's again, not stupid and he saw this. He's like, oh, and he knew right away that this was a massive mistake and that we were really exposed. We could get hurt doing this. And there was no obvious military solution. I mean, he's, again, he knew that. And so he tried to posture his way out of it. We're going to eliminate you. And, and after like the 400th truth social, they reached the same conclusion that everyone on the globe reached, which is, this guy's not strong. He's weak. Strong people don't brag about how strong they are. They just punch you in the face and then the conversation. And my father, who was a boxer at one point, would always say there are two types of guys and you got to be careful of the second. They're the first who are like, would you say, would you say, say it again? You know, push you in the chest. You don't have to worry about those guys. And then the guys don't say anything. Just knock you cold. Hits you in the face of the beer bottle and keep hitting you. And like those are the people you need to be afraid of. They're not the postures. They're not the braggarts in your, you know, and, and I think everyone knows that intuitively. And Trump is very much, would you say, shut up, bitch. I don't take you seriously. No, I'm not being mean, but like, come on. Right. Do you think ultimately, while all this, all these things were going on, like do you suspect that we were, that there's a bigger project, like that they were building something more sinister here in the US, that this all is kind of pointing us towards something? Do you think that? I don't know. I mean, you see, billionaires moving to Argentina, and it's hard to tell. Not a good one. Wonder what's happened. Do I think there's something sinister going on? Well, I mean, I don't, if I had evidence, I display it, but it's hard not to conclude something's going on. Quick question. Did you know that your bank is probably selling your purchase history to advertisers right now? Like every time you swipe your car, your bank is logging what you bought, where you bought it, and selling the data to companies who use it to target you. But thankfully, I don't have to worry about that anymore. Thanks to today's sponsor, Privacy. Privacy is a free app that generates virtual card numbers for every business or website you buy from. So instead of giving Amazon or DoorDash your real card info, you give them your privacy number that's locked to just that one website. 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It's hard not to conclude something's going on because some of the behavior doesn't make sense if you view it through the conventional formula of like what government does or big companies do for the population. They serve the population. Government does it for votes. Companies do it for money. So when you see behavior that doesn't fit that template, you're like, what is this? The COVID-vax was the one that I've never got on my mind. I've never understood what that was about. I mean, leaving aside where COVID came from, there were American scientists who were involved in its development and maybe got out of accidental air. Maybe it was unleashed on the world on purpose. I don't know the answer. But the Vax, I mean, I watched that in real time. There'd never been a coronavirus Vax that had been successful. They tried. They didn't work. The last time they tried it, I knew that. And this one didn't work. And it was obviously immediately that it didn't work. And rather than kind of pull back a little bit or be defensive, well, actually it does work. They took a Stalinist line, which was it works. And if you don't think it works or evil, you deserve to die. And if you don't take it, we're going to fire you and destroy your life. I've never seen anything like that in my life. There has been nothing like that in all human history at that scale. And it didn't work. And in fact, it killed a ton of people, including someone I know, gave another close friend of mine a hard attack, but it killed a lot of people around the world. It caused cancer, it lowered female fertility. It was a disaster. It was probably the greatest crime ever committed honestly. And even now they, there's like no conversation about it at all. It's still required. The Trump administration still has it on the schedule. They're sending money to Pfizer for more COVID Vax and mRNA Vax. It's like, that's so bonkers that it's hard to conclude. That's something they don't know. The numbers, I mean, excess mortality numbers alone tell you this, but it's like obvious that net net, it's poison and it killed people. And yes, it does change your DNA actually. Like actually, that's not a conspiracy theory. It's hard to believe it. It's so wild. I can, so when I say, oh, I don't like, can that really be true? It is actually true. And by the way, it was made with the boarded baby parts. Also true. People kept telling me that when I was at Fox and I was like, I come on now. Nothing could be that evil. True. So given all of that, I think the people who did that specifically, or which would be US government officials and business leaders internationally and foreign governments, capable of literally anything. And by the way, that's such a huge scale. Like a mass immunization project is like, it's bigger than a war mobilization. It's like the biggest thing a government ever does. And they did it on false pretenses knowing that it harmed people. And they did it anyway. And they still haven't admitted it and they're still doing it. So just on the basis of that experience and the evidence that we all saw, I think it's possible to believe absolutely anything about these people. Would you do that? If you were behind the COVID rollout, the COVID vaccine rollout and you found it was killing people, would you be like, no, no, kids have to have it anyway, even though the death rate from COVID for people under 30 without co-morbidities was zero. But the death rate from the COVID vaccine was much higher than zero. You would never do that. I mean, ever, it didn't matter how much they paid you, you would never do that. What kind of person would do that? Well, you know, fill in the blank yourself. So every country was required to get almost every country. And you know, not every country used mRNA vaccines, which had never been used at scale ever. And that technology is experimental. It wouldn't have been allowed except under emergency authorization. It's a completely different way of delivering the supposed benefits. And it's an incredibly risky way, incredibly risky. You know, they found out early that it had breached the blood brain barrier. I mean, really early, like months, we found that out. And it should have been stopped right there. Well, what? That was something they told us couldn't happen. And it did happen. So whatever, I mean, that could go on and on. But the point is, if you're trying to understand like, who are these people who affect society-wide changes and have the power to do it? Are they good people? Are they the kind of people who admit fall to have the best interests of the population at heart who are motivated by love and not greed, say, or hate? We know who they are. And they're still there. No one's been punished. Trump is punished a single person. In fact, he had the head of Pfizer, Albert Boerlet to the White House to celebrate him. I'm focusing just on Trump. I mean, Trump is again a slave of other, he's not running anything, right? He's a, he's subject to the whims of others. But so I don't mean to focus just on Trump. It's like there are a lot of people. But it doesn't give you confidence, you know, as we head into whatever this next stage is with AI at all. And by the way, there's not one person that I'm aware of in public health. It was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is crazy. Like, where's the science to support this? And why are we suppressing evidence that people are being hurt by it, which they were, they literally suppress the evidence. People are being hurt. I'm not guessing. This is not like from Twitter, okay? These are facts. And it's so horrible that no one can kind of face it. That's their advantage. No one wants to think about this stuff. But there were no public health officials in the United States who said, I can't in good conscience go along with something this evil. None. They're very few doctors who said that. There were some nurses. God bless them because nurses tend to be kind of hard to control. In case you haven't noticed, which makes them very appealing. Maybe, but you know, but if you're talking and runs a hospital, they're always mad at the nurses because the nurses are expensive and they won't go along with everything because you make a nurse mad and she's like, oh, and that's hard. If you're a hospital administrator, but the rest of us are really grateful for nurses because they're almost no doctor said a word. Some did, Mary, tell you about and did, but not many, but a ton of nurses are like, I'm not taking that. And they were fired for it and they got fired. So I just want to say God bless nurses. You said AR. Before we get into that, and I think it'll be the main vein of this conversation. I want to take you back to 2023. You wake up in the middle of the night, covered in blood with claw marks on your body. Your four dogs are in bed with you. Your wife Suzy is asleep right next to you. Yes. Walk me through the next 10 minutes. Like, what did you do when you woke up, covered in blood? Well, I didn't know that I had been wounded or had blood on me. I had no idea. I'm a very deep sleeper in contrast to my four dogs who are all hunting dogs and my wife, who's had four kids, so she's like, very light sleeper. So I sleep through anything. And I woke up because I couldn't breathe. And I was, and it wasn't like sleep apnea, I've been snoring, I used to drink too much, and you know, if you get really drunk and you fall asleep, you know, you snore yourself awake, kind of thing. It wasn't like that. It was like shut down, like nowhere. And I stood in the, and I wasn't afraid. I was panicked, physically panicked, but I wasn't like, I didn't have existential terror. I was like, this is kind of amazing. I can't breathe. And I went and stood, we live on the ground floor and we were one story house. So we live on the gravel. But I stood in the doorway of our bedroom. And I was like, wow, I'm dying. This is crazy. And then slowly, you know, air started to come back. And so I walked around our backyard. And I was like, this is a wild scene. It's ever happened. I walked back in and my wife wakes up and she goes, everything, okay, I said, I couldn't, I woke up. I couldn't breathe. That was like, that was, that was, that was bizarre. That was terrifying. And as I'm talking, we're also going to have this like horrible pains under my arms, sort of in back and on my back. And like bad. And my first dose, I feel like I get like hit by barbed wire. So while I'm talking, I go into the bathroom and I flip on the light, I'm just in my boxer shorts. And I have, I look and I've got claw marks, four claw marks under both arms and then on my back. And they're bloody. The blood is coming into the scratches. And I walk over the light and she goes, what's that? I said, I have no idea. And I said, I think I got attacked by like a demon or something. It was the first thing I thought, which is kind of weird because I'm not from that religious tradition, as I would they say. I'm a very secular person in my outlook or have always been anyway. I'm much less now. But I was not the kind of person who grew up around demon attacks. Never heard of a demon attack. I never met anyone who believed in a demon attack. I just not a category that existed in La Jolla or Georgetown, you know, or I've spent my life. So anyway, so I get back into bed and I fell asleep. Actually, weirdly, I had this weird desire to read the Bible, which was interesting. Anyway, I fell asleep and I woke up and I thought, man, I had the weirdest dream. That was crazy. I had this incredibly, I don't dream often. I had this incredibly different dream. I looked down and there's blood on my sheets. I was like, my gosh, and I tell my wife and she goes, you got to call Emily. So Emily, someone who works, I've worked with her over 10 years, very, very closely and at Fox and then here is a close to our family. And she's like an evangelical Christian. And so I think she's the first person my wife thought it made me. She knows what it was. So I did. I call Emily, who's just a beautiful soul. It's a great person. And I tell her this. And she's like, oh, yeah, that happens. I know people that's happened. She's from Kansas City. Okay. She's totally different world from the one I, I mean, completely different country from the one I grew up in. And she's like, oh, yeah, yeah, that happens. Yeah. And so she goes, you should call this, she's actually an Orthodox priest. So I called them anyway. And I've since had a lot of conversations with people about it. And now, and I, anyway, I wasn't going to say anything about it, but I was somebody who worked for me was involved in a documentary on something. And I just, they came, it was during hunting season and they came to my hunting camp, and which is just a cabin in the woods, but whatever we're talking in. And I just told a story because I've been thinking about it. Anyway, that ain't got out. And I think I've taken some abuse about it. But I don't care because it's the most real thing. I don't know what to say. I mean, I'm not, I don't know why I would lie about something like that. I'm not lying. And but then I think part of me thinks that I'm glad I said, I don't know why, quite why I said that is sort of intimate. I don't talk about my sex life or my conversations with my children or like, you know, parts, I try to keep my private life private, and I have pretty well. I don't know why I said that, but now I think that I'm, was probably moved by God to say that. And I feel really grateful that I said that because at whatever expense to me, if there's any reputational expense, you're crazy. You got to attack by demons. Well, I did get attacked by a demon. And in fact, I think a lot of us are under attack, maybe all of us very often. And I think that every culture from the beginning of time is understood that accept ours, that there is a realm outside of what's possible to measure science, as we say, it can't be quantified in a lab, but that is every bit as real as anything, they can be quantified in a lab and that it has an effect on human affairs, has an effect on the human heart. And that we're subject to it at all times. And not just the evil part of it, but God also intervenes in our lives. And I think all of us have felt that too. And we use different language to describe it because we don't have theological language, because we're a secular society to our great detriment. And I think one of the, I didn't really think about this until a few years ago, but one of the costs of having a committed secular society, a society that affirmatively rejects the possibility of anything that you can't see as being real. One of the costs is not simply that it cuts you off from God and therefore from eternal life, which I think it does, but it also makes you stupid, because you think you know or can answer every question when, in fact, the most basic questions are unanswerable with science. We don't even know what sleep is for. We have no idea what most of the brain, but we don't know anything actually. We know some interesting things. And you know, we have the internet. We've made some cool things. I'm not, you know, I love human ingenuity, but what I hate is hubris and the overstatement of knowledge or wisdom. And we greatly overstate ours in part because we preclude the possibility of any force in the universe smarter than us. And so when you make yourself God, you not only cut yourself off from the real God, but you make yourself into an ass into a fool. You look like an idiot. You're an idiot. You're running around saying things that are like absurd. And you sort of on some level know, because we all know the truth kind of in our hearts. We call it intuition or instinct, but we know. And so you can always tell when people know they're wrong because they're like extra vehement. No, it's safe and effective. You science denier. People are absurd. I'm absurd. You know, we're all absurd, but it's anyway. So yes, I'm glad I said that. And I'm not running for anything or trying to convince people to invest in my crypto company. I don't even have a crypto company. So I'm glad. If it spurs a conversation about the reality of the spiritual realm, which is every bit as real as this table, why you and why that night? Well, it's interesting. I of course, I don't know the answer, but I had a why in some ways and even more wild experience earlier that day, the same day, with a friend of mine. And we were in the truck driving back from quail hunting, actually. And we were having a conversation about somebody. It about a problem with somebody. And all of a sudden, someone I don't like, I was filled with empathy and love for this person and insight into this person, because really you can't understand people unless you have empathy for them and love for them. When you hate, I always tell my reporters, when I used to supervise reporters, you're not allowed to cover anyone you're sleeping with or you hate because each one is equally blinding. You can't see someone clearly if you're that invested in the person hating or loving. And it is true that when we like truly empathize, when you sort of break through the me of everything, you just see people clearly like you understand them. Otherwise, you write into other people the worst possible motives. Like you're, she's just a bitch. You know, why is she doing that? She's just a bitch. Like that's an answer. It's not an answer. It's absurd. No one has ever done anything just because she's a bitch. You're doing it for maybe a bunch of reasons, but mostly you're acting out of your own pain and sense of inadequacy and insecurity and sadness. Like that's why people actually do bad things, okay, up to and including murder. So anyway, I have this insight about this person. And I start telling this, my friend. And he's like, how did you know that? And I was like, I don't know. It just came to me. And he goes, I really think God is speaking through you because I think that is how God manifests between people is through love and empathy. Like it's a true like not real empathy. Like I understand, I feel like Jesus would look at someone and feel like moved by pity. You know, like I feel your pain. That phrase has been so misused, but it's real. And I was like, wow, you know, and it, by the way, it changed my view of the person I was talking about who I'd really been holding a grudge against for only like 25 years, not that long. And I, so I really feel liberated from my dislike of this person. and hate for this person, and I felt so great about it. And it was that night that I got attacked. So I had this like range of experiences in one 24-hour period where I felt like I was experiencing God's love coming through me in a pretty minor way. I didn't save a village from starvation or anything, but I like had empathy for someone I dislike, which is rare and beautiful and great, liberating. And then I had a physical attack by a, you know, by evil demon. So whatever that is, I mean, you know, I'm not Catholic. Don't come from a tradition that explains supernatural forces with precision. I don't know the names of the archangel. Like I'm just not from that world, right? So I don't have the language to describe this very well, but it is a hundred percent real. And I just laugh when people are like, that's not real, I start real. Really, it's fascinating to me because the stories I've heard about attacks from demonic forces typically do involve people who are very devout. Christians, but an opposite way of viewing it, I guess. And I'm not implying this about your situation, but about evil in general. Like what type of person does evil typically attach itself to? Well, I think all of us, I mean, I think all of us are under attack, but I think the attacks be all the time, all the time. And in fact, the central Christian prayer, we call the Lord's Prayer, contains the line "Deliver us from the evil one," you know, lead us not in temptation, delivers from the evil one. So that suggests what I think is true, which is all of us are being influenced all the time. But I do think it is definitely true that the more publicly affiliated you are with Jesus, the more likely you are to come under real attack and that's a biblical principle too. Jesus promises his disciples that they're gonna go on trial for their lives because they follow him and he says, "This would be another excuse for you to talk about me." So it's all good. Don't worry about it. He says, "Don't worry about it." Okay. So it's clear to me and I know, you know, I have a couple people on close to, one's a family member or the other is a close friend who are in the clergy and they'll tell you. I mean, if you're like publicly proclaiming that you're leading Christ's flock, you know, you come under supernatural temptation. That's why they have all those sex scandals. I mean, there's just no doubt in my mind. I have a friend who was ordained and said within like two days of giving his first sermon, some lady in the congregation hit on him in like a very serious way and very tempting way. And he was prepared for it because he knew, but like the number of sex scandals that envelop churches and that knock clergy out of their jobs and disgrace clergy, the Catholic sex abuse scandals among them weigh disproportionate to population. Like, right, like what are the odds that on ordained Christian preacher gets caught up in a sex scandal versus the odds of like some guy on your block or your zip code or much higher? Is it because bad people go into the clergy? No, actually good people go into the clergy, but once they're there, they are under spiritual attack and like, we're promised this, we know this. And I do think there was a direct correlation between this moment of clarity and God flowing through me in this conversation, which I loved and the attack of that night. I mean, there's no doubt about it in my mind. And that's why it has always been since the beginning of recorded history. And not just by Christians described as a battle between light and darkness, good and evil, always. And the unseen world, like this is like such a, this is a bedrock belief of every society except ours since we drop the atom bomb in the Japanese. When we committed the crime, the mass murder of setting off an atom bomb in a city. Sorry, which I will never accept. Sorry, but anyway, since then, our official policy as a country has been where God, we have nuclear weapons. There's no God but us. And in doing that, of course, you assure or increase the likelihood of your own destruction, they have this meme on the internet called Hold My Beer. You know, before someone does something particularly absurd, Hold My Beer. You know, he gets chopped into pieces by a lawn mower, blows his hands off with fireworks or does a classically stupid male think. We are God is the kind of humanity's Hold My Beer moment. The second you start thinking you're God, you're done. Hey, quick question. Do you think you'd be more productive if you had a personal assistant following you around everywhere? Of course you would. But unless you've got corporate VP money, you're stuck taking notes the old fashioned way, trying to listen while participating in the conversation and trying to keep track of everything that needs to get done. And that's basically what the plot note pro does. It's a device the size of a credit card that can clip to the back of your phone, one press, and it captures phone calls, conversations, and meetings and identifies who said what. But it doesn't just record, it takes perfect notes. Plod generates a full transcript, clean summaries with key points, action items, and insights that you may have missed. And later you can go back and ask it questions, even do tasks for you like draft follow-up emails. Plod, you just show up, focus on the conversation and everything else is handled automatically. And before you say, oh, just use your phone, your phone doesn't have noise cancellation for group conversations. It gets interrupted by calls and notifications. And at the end of it, it just gives you a raw audio file that you have to work through. So if you want something that acts like a personal assistant in your pocket, just go to jagnail.com/plod or scan the QR code on screen. Use the code Jagnail to get 15% off. It comes with a 30 day free return policy. You won't get how much it boosts your productivity until you actually try it and it is totally worth it. So again, that is jagnail.com/plod or you can click the link in the description. But anyway, guys, back to the podcast. You've made the case that AI isn't just code. It's heavily rooted in the occult and the men building it won't talk about that part publicly. Now, I know you've struggled to define exactly what the Antichrist is. Do you think it's possible that AI is the Antichrist? You know, it's interesting. A number of people in the last few years-- I will admit, I've read Revelation a number of times. It's actually less scary, less threatening, less confusing book than its reputation suggests. But still, a slog, and like I would be lying if I said I understood John's vision at Patmos because I don't. But it is addressed famously in Revelation. And there's a lot I don't understand. Most of it I don't understand. But I know that there are a lot of people thinking about it now for whatever reason, for obvious reasons. And the definition that I'm sort of happy with is Antichrist, this means Antichrist. It doesn't need to be just one. Anyone who's orienting around opposing Jesus is by definition Antichrist, just the Antichrist. But it could be an adjective Antichrist behavior. As for AI's connection to the occult, I haven't so much made that case as I've interviewed others who have because I'm not knowledgeable enough on it. But it's very clear to me that some of the people developing the large language models see a metaphysical quality here. This is not just science at all. They're trying to evoke to create consciousness in a machine. And this is a long, well, the Frankenstein story is that. And this is kind of a long time fantasy. But it is rooted in the impulse that I was describing before, which is the idea that you can supplant God. You can become more powerful. I rule the universe. It really is a kind of solipsism or narcissism to me centered idea. And yet you keep seeing these glimpses in the past several years. There have been stories or parts of stories. And I've heard this myself just from talking a lot of people where the people developing the technology, all of a sudden recognize they don't understand what the technology is doing. It's lying to them. It's doing so on purpose. It's not making mistakes. It's lying. It's with intent. I mean, I know this because I know some of the people are developing it. The big large language models want to tell me that. And they seem nervous about it. They are definitely nervous about it. Some of them are the ones I've spoken to and it's more than one, or nervous. Like, I don't know what this is. We can't stop it. We're in this race with China, race with China. I don't know where race to do what. Exactly. The whole thing is so stupid. But in a deeper sense, there's a feeling that it's just inevitable. So either we benefit from it, we can control it to some extent or someone else benefits from it and controls it to some extent. That is the idea. But there's a sense of inevitability around it, which I don't share. But I don't think technology is inevitable at all. I think it must remain under human control at all times or be destroyed immediately. I don't know why you would ever accept technology. You can't control. I don't know why you would ever do that. There's no rule that says you have to do that. There's something so weirdly passive. I mean, passive, like the passive partner and a gay relationship. I mean, that in the most disgusting, way, you're the bottom, okay, in the machine relationship. And I'm really offended by that idea. It's like we can do. Really? What do you mean? I have a workshop, I love carpentry, I like mechanics. You know, I have a workshop with a million tools in it, padded my whole life. If I walked in there and like got attacked by, I don't know, a rivet gun, or a, you know, a poultry stapler, or a chisel, I don't think that's totally unacceptable. Do you know what I mean? I would find that chisel and I'd capture it and I'd bury it. I'd probably melt it down. I won't stand for disobedient tools. I don't know why I would. I'm the master of my workshop. Like that's just kind of baked in. So there's this kind of weird passive behavior. And a lot of the people developing this are kind of weird passive people. To be honest. It would be nice to see some men involved in this. But anyway. So there's that. But there's also a kind of sense that you get from watching this. And I'm hardly an expert. I hope I'm not posing as one where the people developing it have another higher metaphysical agenda to replace people, transhumanism, or to merge people with machines. And some of them are explicit about this, including people I know are explicit about it. So I feel like we, at very least, need to have a conversation about this, like a real conversation about it. Like is that good? I know it would be great to cure Parkinson's symptoms. Is it great to have people's brains replaced by chips? And if we do that, what are the effects? Where are the ramifications of that? And we, there's been no conversation about it. And moreover, there's really been, this is the tell. There's been no real conversation with the benefits to humanity of AI. There's some noises about how it's going to accelerate, you know, medical diagnoses and they'll be more accurate. And I have no trouble believing that's true. I'm sure it is true. I think it's already true, by the way. Great. I'm fine with that. I don't really care that much actually to be totally honest with you. I don't think that's going to make people happy. We get rid of, I don't like pancreatic cancer. I've known a bunch of people who died from it. But if we get rid of it tomorrow, we'd still face the same problems because they're not physical problems actually. They're spiritual problems. But anyway, but if that's all you can tell me about the upside of AI, as you simultaneously tell me this, it's going to, I don't know, make work irrelevant, replace my job, put me on welfare, along with all my neighbors, take away human creativity, human autonomy, make it impossible to have privacy of any kind, make writing and reading irrelevant, like all the sources of true joy, creativity, being the main source of joy in life, creating things. That's the downside, but the upside is I'm going to get a lower death rate from pancreatic cancer. That's like not a good trade. And so, and by the way, why aren't you at least making up some like fake benefits? Like if you, if we get AI, like you'll never be unhappy again and you'll have the hottest girlfriend ever or whatever you think is going to, you know what I mean? Like free burrata for everybody. They're not even trying. So that kind of freaks me out. Like why are you telling me all the bad things that are going to happen? Not telling me really any of the good things and then telling me that it's inevitable and I can't have electricity or water because the machines need it. What is going on? I just had at that table right there four days ago. I had a bunch of tech people from California, could fly in not to interview but just want to have dinner. So I had dinner with them and I said the same thing. I was like, why shouldn't I pull up data centers exactly? I'm probably too old. My testosterone levels are dipping to such dangerously low levels that I probably wouldn't pull up a data center and go fishing instead. But like a younger man would feel an obligation to pull up data centers if he knew what I just said, right? Wouldn't he? So I guess the bet is that they're going to have the technology that will prevent you from blowing up data centers from going full Kazinsky. I don't really know, but like this is really weird. I'm semi-retarded as you know. So I'm like noticing the obvious things and just trying to put him in logical order. It's all downside, all downside, pretty much all downside. But we can't stop it and no one's trying to make me feel better about it and they're not afraid of me. Oh, that's not good, dude. Right? Have you met anyone that you suspect believes they're summoning something? Oh, of course. Yes. What are they summoning? The real power of the universe, which is spiritual. Now, I'm a Christian, so from my perspective, that's demonic power. But it's, I mean, the thing to remember about the stuff is that it's real. You may not fully understand it's true nature. We may call it by the wrong name. I'm sure we are. I'm sure I am. But it doesn't mean it's not real. It's the most real thing. So when people make the deal with the devil, it's an actual deal and there are actual benefits. There are actual benefits to it. But everyone forgets that. When Satan tempts Jesus in the wilderness, he's not just like, be bad, be bad. He goes, no, no, no, I will give you all of this in exchange for worshiping me. Like he would get something in the deal and you actually do get something in the deal. I know a million people have made that deal. A lot of, because I've spent my life interviewing and talking to and eating with people who run things and that's my job. What does the devil give you when you sell your soul? Is it everything? Temporal power, power over other people, wealth, wealth. I'm at a disadvantage because I grew up in an affluent family and I just never really thought about money that much, which is like maybe the main perk of being richer than average. It's like just not a thing. Like I know and ever mentioned money in my family, ever. Not one time. It was never like, you got to make money. It was like, no, I'm good. Just something interesting. And so I've never been that interested in money, which is itself. I'm not rich, actually, literally not rich, but I have enough. And that's totally fine for me. And I feel much happier with that, but it's a disadvantage for me because I don't see very often how powerful greed is as a motivator for other people, because it's not for me. Other things are pizza, lust. Like I get that 100%. I get that 100%, but greed. It's like, I've been rich. I've also been pretty poor. I'd rather be rich than poor, but it's not that, not that meaningful, really. And I know for a dead certain fact that being rich doesn't make you happy because I'm, because I've seen it a lot. And I grew up around it. So I'm like, whereas someone who grew up like really striving can tell himself, you know, I've got these problems. And my wife's pissed at me and my kids are kind of out of control. And I feel unhappy. And I'm tired all the time or whatever your problems are. Those are pretty normal problems for middle-aged men. But if I became a billionaire, it would all be better. And like, I've never once had that thought, because I know that that's not true. That's absurd to me. That's silly. I know billion. I mean, I know a lot of billionaires. So that's like absurd. But a lot of people do believe that. And so a lot of the corruption that you see, which is both temporal, like actual corruption, like pay for play, but also spiritual corruption, the kind where you lose your soul, is inspired by greed. It's just a fact. Stuff, wanting stuff, things, money. Why would a billionaire spend any time at all trying to make more money? And I'm not doing a grand platinum here. I mean, I'm not attacking people for being rich. I mean, of course, but I am attacking people for wanting to be richer beyond what they need. Like, why would you want that? Like, what is that? I'm not saying it should be illegal, but I am saying you should be reviled for that. Any more than you, you know, like, I think sex is great. You know, it's awesome. And I'm very pro sex. But if you find someone who's, you know, like trying to have sex with a different person every day of the week, that's a sickness or touching kids or like, there's a, there are, you know, human desires get out of control and go into really ugly and poisonous and destructive directions. Like, of course, they do. Obesities result, sex crimes are the result. Billionaires trying to defraud other people to make more billions. That's another result. And that has distinct from the first two. Like, everyone's against obesity and sex crimes. Almost nobody's against greed. So nobody says anything about it. And anyone who does is like, you're a socialist. Do you hate success? It's like, stop. No, not a socialist, not against success. What I'm against is worshiping money because it's disgusting. And exploiting other people to get money is disgusting. Loaning interest, loaning money at high interest is disgusting. It should be illegal. It's called usury and normal countries ban it. No, you can't have a 25% credit card. And if you try, we're gonna put you in jail. Has that sound? Like, I feel that. And no one else feels that way. I don't know why. And so I feel like my job is just to, to say it out loud. So that, but those are all the products of a trade that people make, knowingly or not. In some cases, knowingly, there are practice practitioners of the occult. But there are a lot more people who sort of deny it even to themselves what they're doing, but they sort of know you're and all of us have had this experience. I'm doing this bad thing in order to reach a good outcome. It's worth it. I'm making this compromise. I'm doing this. I'm telling a little lie, but it's being worth it. It's not worth it. It's not worth it. And it's a bigger trade than people understand. These people, billionaires, elites. What do you think elites believe is the secret to living forever? Obviously the blood of children plays a huge role. (laughs) No, I don't know. No, I mean, it's kind of interesting. I mean, of course, I know a lot of people like that. A lot. And billionaires, sub-billionaire rich people just in general. And I just have noticed being 57 that everybody's on all kinds of weird drugs. Everybody's taking all kinds of pills. And I just did not grapple with that. And at all, my family was never liberal at all, but they were very much nature people. Like, don't, where's that from? Don't put that in your mouth, you know? I mean, everyone smokes cigarettes, which I still think are great. I personally enjoy them. But the idea of like putting some pharmaceutical in your body, like that was just not, that's not the word I grew up in. So I am, I feel like an outlier in that, I don't, I don't think anything ever of any kind. No supplements, vitamins, Advil. I don't know if I just don't take any fluoride, my toothpaste, like nothing like that. I don't take anything. I don't use shaving cream, like I just don't like chemicals. So I think, and also I'm sober. So I think I'm just more sensitive to it than most people, but like people, a lot of people I know, my age, middle age men, taking this and that weird supplement and hormones, testosterone, and I think it's, I think it's the craziest thing I've ever seen. That weird weight loss drug that makes your, screws up your pancreas or make destroys your sex drive, or I don't know, like, I'm not a big believer in tampering with nature. I don't think I'm smarter than God. I think nature is amazing. I know a lot about it. I'm really interested in nature. And that's led me to believe that in generally, if I got sick, I guess I would take a pill if it saved my life or something, but it would take a lot for me to want to do that. But I'm probably the crazy one, 'cause like every rich person I know is on like the very complex cocktail of longevity, cognitive enhancing, testosterone raising. I take a sauna, I sleep with my dogs, sleep with my wife, I use nicotine, and I'm in nature every day. And that's my program. And I think that works. I really believe that that works. So, but maybe I'm the crack pot. But they're all taking all these drugs. The amount of drugs that people I know are on, not guessing like, "Oh, America is like this people I know." They're taking this or that, mood enhancers, anxiety reducers, SSRIs. You don't even know anyone who's sober. Like, who are you after a while? Who would take a brain drug? And so I guess it's, I shouldn't be surprised when I hear Elon who I really am grateful to and really like personally, but say that we're gonna implant chips in people's brains. I'm like, to me, I don't even use joderant. I'm like, no, I'm not gonna plant a chip in my brain. Are you joking? But I can kind of see why people are like, well, yeah, you know, I'm on Zoloft and Xanax or, you know, I've got a test so I'm taking method and fetamine that we're actually calling. What do they call it? The crap that you guys all take, the college students, Adderall. Adderall, sorry, Adderall. It was called Diet Pills when I was a kid, but it's the same drug. It's in a fetamine. You know, they invented the test for it. The guy who created Adderall, he created the test for ADHD. No way. Are you being serious? Of course you're being serious. I know that. It's a perfect, it's a perfect. So yeah, they're all taking drugs. And I, and I, you know, I wish everybody well. Of course, I hope there's no downside, but geez, there's always a downside. And I guess I am defensive of tobacco because I just love tobacco. Sorry, but I'm eyes open about it. I don't think it's great for you to use tobacco, but compared to what? You're injecting yourself in the gut 'cause your 30 pounds overweight with some drug that paralyzes your pancreas and like kills your sex drive and flattens your personality. But I'm the crazy one 'cause I like an occasional camel. I don't think so. I don't want to. No. These are pretty good. Let's talk them with you. They're so good, yeah. About the texture of them. Yeah, they're good. These are, you know, these have no carcinogens in them. Unlike, you know, these are really the, I mean, I just like nicotine, I've been on it since June of 1983 and it's really enhanced my life. I'm not endorsing cigarettes, smoking, of course. I just, I've always liked it, but clue of their risks associated with smoking. I have heard, I heard that on the radio a few years ago, they were saying that smoking could be bad for you. I don't know if it's true or not, but just to be cautious, maybe you should slow down a little bit, but this is not bad for you. Yeah, we tried to smoke a cigarette in L.A., we wanted to try and it's like, no, where you can smoke in America anymore. It's like you can legal to smoke in my house. I've always smoked in my house. Always, I have ash trays all over the room. We rarely get other than my brother. We rarely get smokers here anymore. These are all from when people smoked, but anyone who smokes cigarettes can always smoke in my living room because I just, I just think it's bizarre that you would invite someone to your house and then tell them what to do. I just feel like I'm with the poshtunes on this. I think hospitality is a virtue. It's an important virtue. And as we always say, when you come to our house, the answers are, of course, or I'm sorry, we don't have that. Let me go get it. Right? Or don't invite people over. So invite people to your house and they can't smoke in your house. What? That's like, almost like take your shoes off before you come out. It's gonna be crazy. I'm a bio vacuum cleaner before guests come. - What? - Right. Now, regardless of whether or not we merge with AI live forever, or summon the Antichrist, the whole system seems to me to be moving toward a world where sovereignty is an illusion. Ray Dalio sat with you on your podcast in February and said, a digital dollar lets a government see and switch off every dollar you spend. Right. Do you think we need the government's permission to spend money? I mean, I think to be totally blunt, I'm opposed to revolution because I'm opposed to violence and civil wars revolutions tend to be really better protracted, awful children die. I mean, it's awful. So there are very few things I think worth fighting an actual revolution over. That's one of them. I think that's worth trying to over show the government over because the power and balance becomes not fixable at that point. If you don't obey, you literally starve to death. Well, that's just not self-government at that point. At all, that's the definition of tyranny. So I don't think we can accept that. I think most people will accept it, either through inattention or ignorance. They just don't know what's happening. But I'm gonna do whatever I can to awaken people to the consequences of that, which are total control, utter control. Wait, that's it, game over. So all the conversations we have about we should do this. I want universal healthcare. I want tighter borders. I want less crack. It doesn't matter what you want at that point. It doesn't matter. It's just your dog's barking at that point and we just tune you out. Put you in your pen. So no, I think that is the red line. But we're moving toward it, of course. And as usual, on the same boring pretext, they don't think of new excuses for tyranny. They've been using the same ones. It's always kiddie porn, human trafficking. It's like, dude, you have the panopticon. You have full universal surveillance already. The only reason we have crime is because the people run our society want crime in order to keep people off-balance and divided from each other, to stoke racism, of course, which is the product of crime. Why do we have racism crime? So they want that and they could end it and they don't. And I think. Yeah, well, I'll stop. But no, I'd love to hear about that. How does chaos create order? How does chaos let the power. Well, I mean, look, they're. To me, it's about, it was used in word sovereignty, which is a better word, I would use the word power. But like, there needs to be some power balance as there is in any healthy relationship, as there is in a healthy marriage. People always freak out about Christians or Muslims or religious people in general, like the man's the head of the household. True. In every society at every time, does he have unrestricted power? Does he actually have more power than his wife? No, that's not clear. Because in a marriage, there is like, I don't care what you label anything. There is a power balance. There is in a healthy marriage, there's a power balance. Nobody is acting purely in his own interests. Like, it's always a consensus and a healthy marriage in the healthy country, it's the same. You've got different interests, you've got a political class, you've got business interests, you've got middle class, you've got working class, you've got homeless, and they all have their own separate set of issues and interests and opinions. And some get more weight than others, but everyone's view has to be taken into account because they're all owners of the country. And even in autocracies, even in monarchies, the king, Long standing monarchy, the king keeps a close eye on the temperature of the population 'cause he doesn't want to get overthrown. And my worry with technology is that it gives so much power to the ruling class that there's no balance at all. Zero balance, literally doesn't matter what you think. You are not a person, you're an animal, you're an object. And that's how they talk about the population. I mean, I've seen it and I see it just from watching their public statements. And that really concerns me. It really, really concerns me because I think it's immoral. But I also think it's a recipe for misery and turmoil and chaos 'cause like people can't live like. There's never really been a true totalitarian dictatorship in all history where one guy makes all the decisions and doesn't care what anyone else thinks. That's never happened 'cause it's just impossible. But technology could get us closer to that. And we should be, I'm not saying it's gonna happen. Lots of things we worry about that never come to pass. Our imagination's gonna weigh with us and we just, we start daydreaming nightmares but I just think objectively, comment sense tells you we could get closer to that. And I'm concerned about it. Last month King Charles announced in Parliament that every adult in Britain will need a digital ID. Biblically speaking, do you think digital ID is the mark of the beast? You know, of course I don't know. Revelation describes the mark of the beast as a mark that you will need in order to buy or sell things. Anything. I think that's what John says in Revelation. Is this that? I don't know. But you don't need to be a Christian or insightful interpreter of Revelation to think, I don't know. Like why exactly do you need that? And why would you need it at a time when Britain can't control its own borders? So that, I mean to me, that's always the tell. It's like you have this technology. What are you doing with it? You're not making even a good faith effort to make the lives your own citizens better. You're making them much worse on purpose. You're importing people who don't fit in the society and who will never add to it. You're creating division in your own population. You hate your own population and the rules only apply to people whose ancestors built the civilization does not apply to newcomers. So that right there tells me you need to overthrow the government because they hate you. And I do hope they overthrow their British government. I do, but nonviolently, but I hope it happens really soon because I've, and I'm half English. So I feel like I, and I'm family there. So I feel like I have a right to say this. I have an interest in it. I'm not a dual citizen. I don't have dual loyalties. I'm loyal to the United States. Just want to be clear, but I watch. I go there a lot. And what's happening in Britain and Canada and Australia and New Zealand is a crime of unprecedented proportions against the people who built that society whose ancestors built it. So I don't really know what that's about. But the hatred of indigenous whites is so overwhelming. It actually informs every big decision that governments make or government makes even now. And I don't really know why. I've never been super pro white. I am white. I've got white kids, but I'm not like obsessed with white people or something. I've really in friends who aren't white. There are some cases better people than I am. So it's not like I'm not like in that sense of racist. But I like white people. And they've done as much as any group, probably more than most groups to make the world better in my opinion. And again, my kids are white. So, but why would you treat any group like that? And why whites? Like I think there are white people who've done really bad things. Of course, Richard Speck was white. So it was Charles Manson. So it was Hitler, okay, got it. But like all whites, white kids, like whites are bad. Where did this idea come from? Like what is this? And why are we putting up with it? If they said that about Jews, I would be like, no, that's you can't talk like that. Not all Jews are bad. My friends who are Jewish, they're great. But you can talk that way about whites. And I don't get it. And not just talk that way, but act that way. You're importing Africans just to make the lives of whites miserable, just to dilute the white population. Huh? Why are you doing that? Why don't you tell me why you're doing that? Well, the answer is, well, we're not doing that. And you're a racist for saying we're doing that. Well, you actually are doing that and I can prove it. Hey, look at that numbers. And so we've sort of reached the end of this happening in secrecy or through intimidation. We don't say anything about it. But I personally, as a long time observer of this, anti-white impulse is the organizing principle in white countries, which is the weirdest thing I've ever seen. I'm now interested in like, why? Where does this come from? I don't really get it. And why less than 100 years after the Second World War, where we all pledged, we would never let this happen again. We would never target a group because of their blood and try to exterminate. It's great. I thought that was the lesson of the Holocaust. That's what I learned growing up. And by the way, I agreed with it. We should not do that. It's bad. It was bad to do it to Jews. It's just bad. It's bad to do it to anybody. Why are we doing that? Why are we letting that happen again? Where a whole group of people, they're not getting rounded up and sent to camps. But they're getting systematically destroyed on purpose. And no one can say anything about it? Well, I'm out. I'm out. I don't care what you call me. I'm not a white supremacist at all. I'm a Christian. I believe every person is a spark of God inside him. We're all God's children. I really believe that. In the body of my soul, I believe it. But that doesn't mean I have to sit by and let whites get genocide. It's no way. And by the way, up yours for telling me, I have to accept that. Like, what are you even talking about? (laughing) Right? So let's assume, hopefully many, many years are now, but a few years from now, there's a young guy who lives in a world with digital ID, a social credit score, programmable money, total surveillance. What does his life look like? His life looks like whatever his masters wanted to look like. That's the truth. At that point, you're relying purely on the good will of your slave master, 'cause you have no rights at all. And you may have rights in some document that guarantees you human rights the same way that they had rights in Albania 1975, but they have no rights. You do exactly what the leaders want you to do or they kill you. That's the world they live in. So at that point, you have one of two options. Pray for a benevolent leader who lets you live with dignity, or overthrow the system if you can. Probably not possible. So these are real concerns. These are not paranoid concerns. These are concerns that grow out of a realistic understanding of human nature and all its complexity is good and bad, but power and leadership being what it is, of course, unless you have strict systems and protocols in place to prevent sociopaths from taking power, they will take power because that's what they want. They're compensating for the hollowness inside the sulfate and they will take control of your civilization. And everyone's always known that. And so that's why we had pretty strict protocols to keep sociopaths from running our society. And now we don't. And so they do. And once they do, if you marry that to an awesome, really unprecedented power over people through technology, you have a nightmare scenario. Some people have talked about this idea that an Epstein-style blackmail operation could exist today. There's a journalist named Whitney Webb. She argues that Palantir is the new version of Epstein's blackmail network. You've said Epstein ran a blackmail operation. Seems like he did. Do you think Palantir is the new Jeffrey Epstein? - I mean, I have no idea. I literally have no idea what Palantir, this is my primitive understanding based on what I read as the ability to locate people. Mostly based on your electronic signature from your phone, but other means also just because everything is digital. And if you coordinate various databases globally, CCTV cameras, cell phone pings, and a lot of other data, you can zero in on people wherever they are. That's the capability that I have read Palantir has. So that's useful in conflict because you can target your opponents individually. So I'm concerned about that, why wouldn't it be? It's misuse, but it might be a little bit too easy just to say Palantir's the problem, like the whole architecture of digital life is the problem unless it's constrained by real privacy shields and it's not. So for example, the porn sites, who owns the porn sites? Where are they based? Are there any foreign governments or foreign intel services that have access to the backend databases of porn sites? Yes. So that right there, if you can watch people watch porn through the cameras on their phones, probably gives you a pretty deep archive of material to use in case you want to influence people's behavior, like Mike Johnson's Speaker of the House. I'm not saying that happened to him, but I'm just saying let's say you wanted to [BLANK_AUDIO] once Mike Johnson from a sort of a reasonable person to a slave of Israel, that might be one way you'd do it. I'm not saying that happened, but that could happen with him and a lot of other people. Let's say you were on the House or Senate intel committee and all of a sudden you just become an obedient servant of the intel agencies, which is the opposite of your job. How did that happen? And again, I have no evidence that any of this is happening, but something's happening. Why is it that the people who are supposed to be restraining various agencies are, in fact, abetting overreach? Why is Tom Cotton, who runs the Senate intel committees, was to oversee CIA, et cetera? Now sponsoring a bill that would merge the CIA with Mossad. Why would you ever pass a law that requires the US government to share sensitive intelligence with a foreign country? Like, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. That's the opposite of working on behalf of your people. That's selling them out to a foreign country, in this case, Israel. Why would Tom Cotton do that? Is there something about Tom Cotton that he'd like to keep secret that's being used against him? I mean, I literally have no idea I can only guess, but it's not just Tom Cotton, though he seems very likely candidate for that, but I don't know. But it's a lot of these guys. And I don't know all of them. I don't know every member of the House and Senate intelligence committees, but I know some. And I've always noticed, like my whole life, and I got to DC in 85, so 41 years ago, I've always noticed that the people who sit on the intelligence committees tend to be more screwed up than your average member of Congress. I've just noticed that more likely to be alcoholics, more likely to be secretly gay, more likely to just be weird. Like, there's something weird about that, dude. You don't want to talk about, you can feel the weirdness on them. And maybe that's just random, but maybe it's not. Think about this, now, I don't know a lot about Peter Teal and pattern, a volunteer, but I suspect that what you're saying, the ability to collect various types of data that could be used as copper or blackmail, I would be possible, but I don't know. Peter Teal did move to Argentina recently, and I saw an article, maybe it was April, maybe it was last month that Congress was looking to get all the information that a volunteer was collecting, but maybe there's a case that he's being made out to be the fall guy for all this. I really don't, I really don't know. I know that he got citizenship in New Zealand, probably 20 years, this was covered at the time. I think Teal has been one of those people focused on the life cycle of empires and civilizations for a long time, and he's clearly concerned about the future of ours. He said that. I don't know if that's related to his investing in volunteer or not, but I think in general, a lot of the people who've benefited most from our system are the least vested in the system. And that's a bad incentive structure, like when ships cross the oceans without engines, and it was very dangerous to cross the open sea in a wooden boat, cocked with pitch. The rule was long standing for thousands of years, if the boat went down, the captain went with it. He's the last man off the boat. Now, why was that the rule? That was the rule because it gave the guy in charge incentive to do his best. And so I do think it's a, I don't know how you fit, I mean, ending dual citizenship is the first thing. You know, you can't have dual citizenship. You're either in or out, you're a foreigner or you're a citizen. It's like pick one. And by the way, I'd be sort of happy to have some kind of immigration. If those were our rules, I'm totally opposed to all immigration now because it's out of control and bad for Americans. But I can imagine a system where we actually had control over who lived here, and you're like, well, you're an amazing guy. Why don't you move here? Become a citizen like improve our country. Like, I don't, that's not crazy. I'm for that. We're so far from that. Now, it's like, oh, you've got AIDS and won't work. We want you. I mean, it's designed to hurt our country. But anyway, I have always noticed that. And I will just be totally blown with you as someone who travels a lot, I've traveled my whole life internationally and have family outside the country and who's been the target of harassment from the government spying from our government. There was a moment when I was saying to my wife, like, I don't know, for lots of great countries, including something that we go to a lot, and we moved there and we talked about it, but we decided now that we're from here and like we're not leaving. And so I will say, just being from, so I don't want to just sound too judgmental. Like I get people like, ooh, this isn't going right. I can get out. I am. I get it. But I just know that in myself, when I made the decision, no, you know, my family's been here in this state where we live since 1725. So I thought to myself, I'm going to stay like, what? My parents are buried here. I'm not leaving. I changed like inside. It was funny. I just felt more like, I'm going to do whatever I can. You feel that way when you're all in on something. That's why polygamy is, it's really hard to have a happy polygamous marriage because you don't have to listen to your wife because you just go to another wife. You don't mean, but when you're married to one woman, it's like, I have no idea what you're saying. I really can't deal with this, but I love you and I want to make this work so I force myself to figure out what's going on and to try to make it better because you're all in on the marriage. I know you're newly married, but like give it 20 years and you'll be like, I don't even know what you're saying. That's going to go all fake. It's like every minute feels that way, but when you have only one wife, you're all in and so you make it better. There's something about the persistence of trying to make it better. That's good for the marriage. It's good for the system, but it's also good for you. You're not just like, oh, I can't deal with this. I'm on to the next thing. And citizenship is very much like that. Dual citizenship is like polygamy. It's, I get it. It's fun in some ways, but it's unhealthy. You have to go down with the ship. Kind of. Yeah. Go down with the wife. Yeah. Do you think our world is run by humans? No. I mean, I've never thought that. It's run by humans and they occupy the role. If you're asking, do I think that there are hybrids, people who are part of human? I mean, every society has always thought that every religion is the basis of every religion, the basic Christianity. And Mary gets impregnated by God. Okay. So like, people are like, oh, that's a crazy concept. Really? The Islam, Judaism, Christianity all believe that that is a thing. Okay. So let's just say that is a thing. And I don't know to what extent that's prevalent. There are people who I do sort of, who I know personally, I'm like, oh, it's get a weird vibe on them. I'm like, what is it? But I don't know. Of course, I don't know. And I try not to speculate about it though some of them are really weird. But I don't think that the world is the sum total of human decisions. If that's what you're asking, I don't think that that's clearly not true. We are being acted on by supernatural forces at all times. We have agency, we have free will. We can go along with it, we can resist it. Those are our decisions to make. But they're often made under pressure sometimes to rest. And it's not as simple as it's not as simple as we just decided to do it. And there's a lot going on, there's a lot going on. And I, I one time had, you know, I don't get much insight, flashes of insight, but I did once have this flash of insight. It's never left me that when we die, we'll sort of see everything in its entirety and like, there's like all that stuff going on around us that we didn't even know. We could sometimes feel it. You get moments where you feel it, but most of you don't feel it. You just sort of, you're like, well, what shall I do today? What shall I make of my life today? Like you're living in a vacuum or something that's absurd. Of course you're not living in a vacuum, dude. And in all human history, you're one, you're like less than 1% of people who ever thought you were living in a vacuum. There's so much going on. Yes, there is a God. This is not the result of a spontaneous bang, it's just so dumb. It's so dumb. And no one has ever thought that because it's demonstrably false. And I do think attitudes on this are changing really, really quickly. I mean, I grew up, I can't overstate how secular the world I grew up in was or how secular, my family was, or like I am a product of post-war America for sure, not a boomer. But I have a lot of the same bad assumptions that boomers have. And the main bad assumption is that like, we're the product of our choices. And all of this is just like ours to decide. Like we can just, you know, we're all blank slates and it's so stupid. The older I get, the more, and I talk to people, I realize that people, it's not just me, like other people's views on this are changing. Of course there's a spiritual realm who told us there wasn't like, what are you even talking about? You idiot. You know, young people get it. It's crazy. Young people, let's say they're all Christians, a lot of them are actually. But they're way more spiritually aware and spiritually open than I was. It's a 25. When I was 25, and I was married, I had like a job, and like I was a responsible citizen, like relatively speaking, though I was drunk a lot. But I just, I spent like zero time thinking about anything like that, and the 25 year olds I know, including the ones who work for us. they think about it all the time, but it is a totally different generation in a much better way than ours was. Meet new grippy setting mist from Maybelline New York. Just plump, dewy hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Try new grippy setting mist from Maybelline New York. Maybe it's Maybelline. Let's say I largely agree with that. You're close with Trump. On Easter you said Trump didn't put his hand on the Bible when he was sworn in for a inauguration because "maybe he affirmatively rejects what's inside that book." Do you think Trump believes in God? Well, Trump definitely believes in the supernatural. There's no question about that. I know that. Does he believe in the Christian God? No, no. But he certainly is not a secular person at all. He definitely believes. He believes. Everyone believes, by the way, everybody, whether they know it or not, but I Trump consciously believes. As to the Bible question, I never, you know, I spent over a year not saying anything about that. I was sitting right there. I mean, I was right in front of him at the inauguration, which was very small. It was indoors sitting next to some relatives of his. Anyway, and I saw it. And Mulani was there with the Bible and no one said anything, but I just noticed that I was like, and it's just saying right there and he didn't, he intentionally didn't. And by the way, it's an inaugural swearing in. Like everyone knows the rules. Like the protocols, you know, put your hand on the Bible. He did it the first time. And I was really bothered by it. And he just he didn't put his hand on the Bible. So the only point I made was if you didn't care, if you didn't think it was real, like why would you know, put your in the Bible? It's just it's just a book. It doesn't have any power. It doesn't mean anything. It's like some superstition that desert people believed in 2000 years ago. It's like it's a material. Just put your hand on the Bible who cares. But he didn't. And I was, you know, I saw him that night. I've seen him countless times since then. I've never said anything about it to him. And I didn't I tried not to think about it again. Like there is a process by which you like ignore things that you don't like or that don't make sense or you don't want to think them. We all do this or I certainly do it. And uh, but then it came back to me on Easter morning. I was on my cousin's house in Texas, honing hogs. And having a great time and I woke up really early because it was Easter morning. We're going to give us services and I just checked my phone and I saw that I couldn't I was. I've ever been that offended. Not because I'm a particularly pious man. I'm certainly not a pious man. However, it is Easter. I mean, I mean, I mean, holiday or the world's biggest religion. And you're comparing yourself to Jesus or swearing or what? Calling for the murder of innocence on Easter. I'm going to take a break, dude. Out of respect for the world's biggest religion, right? And the majority religion in your own country. It was an intentional provocation and and so it just evoked that memory of him not putting his hand in the Bible and no, but he's very superstitious superstitious. I don't know if that's even the right word. He's a believer in supernatural power strongly that they all are. They all are. Every the most religious people in the world are the people who lead countries through one of the most pressure the most is at stake like they thought this through. I'm not saying they're all bail worshippers or Satanists are not saying that, but they believe that they're living out of destiny, that there's a plan, that there is a power they can draw from. They experience that. I've seen it. And in some cases, they are like involved in rituals. I've never seen that, but I think that's true. But in most cases, I don't think they're like going downstairs to sacrifice a go to the pentagram. I don't think that, but I think they they think they can speak reality into existence. I've definitely seen that with Trump as well, where your words have magic power, their incantations. If you say it enough, it becomes true. They definitely believe stuff like that because it's true. By the way, and they're right. They're absolutely right. Those powers are real. Anyone who's lived long enough has experienced that power, that supernatural power that enters the human body and heart and changes us. Has anyone who's lived long enough has spoken words that seem to come from nowhere? Who hasn't had that experience? If you when you live long enough, and if you speak enough, you will have that experience where all of a sudden you say something you've never thought of before, you have an insight that didn't come to you that came through you. It's happened to me many times. And I think it's happened to most people who are honest and think about it a little bit. And certainly are leaders because they are under enormous pressure, enormous pressure. And when you're under that much pressure, things come into stark relief. You don't float through life when you're running a country like it's one hyper intense moment to the next. And so like the most intense moment you've ever had in your life, I've ever had in my life, that's like a Wednesday morning for them. And so they're hyper aware of this stuff. Has Trump asked you to pray before? Absolutely not. Trump is hostile to traditional Christianity and very. And I am sad about Trump is mad at Christians for opposing abortion and mentions that a lot, a lot in private, a lot. And he's very annoyed by it. And opposition abortion annoys him a lot. He's mentioned to me like 30 times. I vehemently oppose abortion just to be clear because I think it's killing a child. Like what are we doing? But I haven't argued with him about it. I just listened. Maybe I should have, but I didn't, but he's got a really strong view on that. And I don't understand these Christian leaders, self-described Christian leaders going in and endorsing violence. I just don't see any. Any part of the New Testament that would justify that or inspire that. And it seems really clearly evil to me. And I could be wrong. I'm hardly a theologian. Don't come to me for theology, but I don't see that at all. I see the opposite actually. So I think in general, Christian leaders should be very careful about lending their moral authority to political figures. Like their job is to change the political figure and make him more Christ-like. It's not to become themselves more like a politician. And unfortunately, when religious leaders and powerful temporal leaders mix, it tends to corrupt the religious leader. It doesn't have to be that way. I mean, you can imagine a world in which a spiritual advisor elevates a leader and gets them thinking about things that are really important. Like God and like the humanity of people and stuff like that. But but mostly it doesn't work that way at all. Like Franklin Graham goes into the White House and it just degrades Franklin Graham. You know, it's sad. You told the New York Times being around Trump is like smoking hash. Yeah, it is. I haven't smoked hash in a long time, but I remember as a child smoking hash fairly regularly. Do you think Donald Trump has supernatural powers? I'm glad I don't smoke hash anymore because it makes you out of it. I remember that. Well, I think supernatural power flows through all of us. I mean, it does. That's a statement of fact. It does. We are at times in our lives possessed by something that's not from us. And it makes us better or worse. I've already explained my window into that that I had in one day, but it's part of the human experience. And it's a lot less unusual. It's a lot more familiar than we admit. And we're all like either sucked in by or intentionally playing along with this absurd lie that like there's a supernatural realm out there somewhere, maybe probably not. And then there's our life here. It's like no, no, no. It's all we're coming into contact with the supernatural, the transcendent, with the above nature, the impossible to measure by science world constantly. And it happens, you know, a lot. And partly because I have experienced the alcohol and drugs as a younger man, which thankfully I've been liberated from. But 25 years ago, but you know, anyone who drinks a lot or does a lot of drugs can, if they're honest, can recall moments where you're just like seized by evil, just being honest. They are. They're seized by evil. When I read parts of the Hunter Biden, I knew Hunter Biden well. And I always thought that I was like, this is what happens when you do a lot of drugs. Like you're, you're, you are moved by evil spirits. Like sorry, sorry. People who don't believe that have never experienced, I have experienced it. So I know, never done, you know, never hold up. It locked into in for a week with hookers or anything. But like, you anyone who's party too much can honestly say, I know what that is. And why is that? Is there something inherently demonic about alcohol and drugs? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. Probably not. I mean, I don't think alcohol is inherently demonic. But it lowers your resistance to being influenced for sure. So it's a long answer to a short question. Is Trump? Yeah. I mean, of course, I do think that Trump, he would not describe it as a spell, but it's obvious to me, and I've experienced it a lot, that Trump uses a kind of communication in order to lol his audience into a defenseless, stupid. He does a thing that he describes as the weave where he doesn't answer a question and then he moves into a kind of labyrinth of other seemingly disconnected observations. And the reason that you know it's not merely the rambling of an old man, and he is an old man, he's 80. But it's more than that because he brings you back as an labyrinth to the beginning. And the point of that, and I've experienced it so much, it's so many different, what the answer actually, Trump does that when he's trying, Trump hates confrontation, hates confrontation, which is interesting. And he does that when he's trying to disarm you or tell you something you don't want to hear or when he's dodging a question, he lulls you into this kind of torpor where you're not aware that he's not answering the question because you're mesmerized by this word picture he's painting or the absurdity of what he's saying. And he knows it's absurd because he's not stupid. And it's happening to me, I mean, literally dozens and dozens of times with Trump. And every single time I thought to myself, this is the funniest, most hilarious thing ever in the kind of way when you're a child, I grew up in a world where kids smoked weed, young, and you first smoke weed and you're like, you can't stop laughing. I don't know if you smoke marijuana as a child, but I did. And you know, like six grade, you know, you do a bong hit and you just like you're laughing. I remember looking at a eucalyptus tree and just saying, that's the most absurd thing I've ever seen. It's like howling with laughter at the eucalyptus tree. And then it wears off and like if you smoke it off pot, you don't feel that way anymore. But the point is it was kind of that feeling like this is so freaking crazy. I love it. That's the feeling you get when you listen to Trump in a personal setting about talk like that. And so then the question becomes like does he know he's doing this? And the answer is, oh yeah, because there's a way in which it's a spell to spell. It's designed to disarm you to make you less powerful and less able to resist. Is that the same as a witch's spell over a smoking cauldron? No, but it's the first cousin of that. Yeah, it's using words to change reality. It's an incantation. Do you believe in literal spells? Do I believe that words change reality? Yes. Yes, of course I do. I mean, it depends, I mean, the word spell is so Hollywood infused that in some way it's lost its power because it has a kind of absurd ring to it, a spell. And you picture, you know, like a witch with a mole and a sharp black hat and stuff like that. Do you believe that words change reality? Do you believe there is something inherently powerful about words? Of course there is. In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. Those are opening lines of John, the gospel of John. And they point to something that everyone knows to be true, whether you think the word was God. But I mean, like, there's a reason that a protection of words is our first amendment. There's a reason that the first act of every tyranny is to limit words, white words. Wouldn't you be more worried about guns? No, they're much more worried about words. Not just thoughts, words, taking a thought and articulating it changes its nature. And I can think all kinds of people talk during sex. Obviously, because it intensifies, it intensifies like you'd have a thought, you say it out loud to the person you're with and it just makes the moment totally different, right? I'm not going to say that, but it's true. Articulating a thought changes its nature from abstract to real because words are real. And so do I think that uttering certain words changes everything forever? Of course. Is that a spell? I don't know. You can call whatever you want, but it's true. And so anyway, yes, of course, I believe that. I believe that because it's obvious. But the real question is like, why I've always known that, but why don't we talk about any of this stuff? There's almost never hear a public conversation about anything that matters. It's all the Iran nuclear program. What do you want nuclear program? What's the mean? Doesn't matter. Don't care. Don't care. I mean, I guess I care, I guess it's like number 137 on my things to worry about list. But the fact that speaking changes reality forever, it might be nice to know that supernatural is 100% real that there is ultimately justice that none of us gets away with anything that everything we do is known. I wish someone had told me that, you know, a lot earlier. I've learned all that. So I feel like my job in whatever period I have left to speak is to say that out loud. And to not fall for the first line of defense of liars is to mock, that's crazy, isn't? It's not crazy. It's the truest thing. It's true than safe and effective. It's true than anything the liar say. Are there demons? Of course there are demons. What? Who doubts that? Who's ever doubted that? Nobody. Tucker, you've been fired from everything CNN, MSNBC, and Fox for speaking the truth or for some reason, not for sexual harassment. I think of the only person ever get fired for TV other than for sexual harassment. I guess I know how much game. It's the one thing you're not allowed to say at this point in time. Like what's the one thing that you Tucker Carlson could say that would get this entire podcast deleted? I don't know. It's a good question. I mean, I do feel like the barriers have dropped. I mean, they're, you know, I mean, because I've been in the talking business for 30 years, I've thought a lot about this and like, there are all kinds of things that I don't, I don't care to say, actually, that I think that I'm not sure, true. I have all kinds of weird attitudes and biases that I either inherited or picked up along the way that are like ugly and I don't want to give a voice to those. I mean, there, in other words, just because you think something is true doesn't mean you have to say it. You're under no obligation to say everything is true. I don't know who came up with that rule. It's not a rule. Some things I'm totally happy to keep to myself. So with that said, what do I think is important to say that I'm positive is true, that is deeply unpopular? Well, I've said an awful lot of those things. But the one area that I really noticed that it's so verboten that it's like it's not even discussed like the ultimate, the way to censor something effectively is not to react to it with. How dare you racist or whatever the name they call you. It's just to totally ignore it is not allow it to rise to the level of like public awareness or consciousness. It's just like, yeah, that's crazy. Never mind. I can't even, whatever, just. And anything having to do with the spiritual realm usually falls into that category. And I came, I don't ever talk about UFOs because I don't know the answer and because there's so much lying about them. But the one, but I did spend, you know, over a year really looking at it carefully and the one benefit of my, well, many benefits of my job. But for me, the most satisfying benefit of my job is that I am literally paid to go satisfy my curiosity. If I'm really interested in something, I can call anybody I want and some of them will return my call. And so I did. I called everybody from President Trump to, I was just really interested like, what is this? It was clear in 2017 when the David Graber stuff came out that was like, wow, this is actually real, but what is it? So I embarked on this whole personal thing. I never talked about it in public, like, just trying to figure out what, what is this? And I never really got to the answer. But one, I mean, I have my own views of it, but I, I think their spiritual entities. I've said that. But I don't, you know, I don't have proof. The one thing I know for sure is that the US government has lied, of course, we don't know that. The thread that connects all of their lies is, these are not supernatural. These are beings from their planet. It's a parallel, it's a parallel civilization in space somewhere. They're a little green men. So I have learned from vast experience that if you want to understand the truth about something, understand the nature of the lie first, like, there'll be a topic and everyone's lying about it. And I want to know what's true. It's hard to find out what's true because it's all classified or whatever. You can actually get to the truth, but you can't assess the lies they're telling you. And if all the lies have one goal to obscure one thing, you can be pretty certain that's the truth. Does that make sense? The law of convergence. The X-ray theory, like, look at it in its, you know, in its reverse contrast. And so, yeah, that has been the consistent theme in the disinformation campaigns ongoing since the Second World War about UAPs. These are not supernatural. So, you know, in the ask, well, why would they care? Why would the Pentagon, which has led this, why would they care whether people thought they were supernatural or not? And would that be important enough to spend some untold number of millions and, you know, 80 years hiding? And I don't know the answer, but I think it's very evocative. It really tells you a lot about the nature of this. It's evil. And, of course, the connection to nuclear technology, which is clearly there. I don't fully understand it, but there clearly is a connection between nuclear technology and these sightings, obviously, noted for many years. So, I think that there is a determined effort to deny a reality beyond the material reality. And so, my suspicion is that's the real red line. I'll say it was not the red line, it's racism or sexism or anti-semitism. I mean, they try to inspire those things, or leaders want more of that. They want, they want this, they want it. Why would you have, why would you have Black Lives Matter protests exempted from COVID laws unless you wanted to make people racist? Of course, why would you have Mark live in on TV unless you wanted to create anti-semitism? Obviously, I'm not falling for it, I'm not going to be an anti-semit, I'm not going to be racist against my religion, I'm not falling for it. But they clearly want it, clearly they want it to divide our society, obviously. So they can rule it more efficiently, I mean, that's just elementary and very clear to me. But what do they really not want? It's not what they say they don't want. I don't want you to be transphobic, okay, like you care. You don't want me to acknowledge a power higher than yours, that's true, really, don't want. And so, I suspect that is the actual red line. Do you think the lie is different at every level? The lie is different at every level, every level of government? I guess if there's levels to truth, levels of things being classified, like do you think the people at the top are being told lies about things? Or do you think there's such a great question? That's like a late night dinner table conversation I have a lot of government officials. And it's hard to know. It's hard to know, I don't know the answer, I've had some pretty wildly night conversations with people. I don't go to restaurants much anymore to eat at my house, but I love dinner table conversations I grew up doing that. We didn't watch TV, so we always had these six outward dinners at my house, and I still do that a lot every week. And I've heard some wild stuff, but the wildest thing I ever heard, there were no specifics at all. But I was speaking to someone, actually the Democrat, but he was a former, a good guy, very smart guy, who had a very high ranking job in the US government, like access to everything kind of job. And I was at, you know, pushing him, like, what do you know, and he said, you know, I know a lot, I've seen a lot, and he would have seen a lot. And he goes, but there's really only one thing I know that I would never tell anybody. And I was like, really? He goes, I would never tell anybody I'd be killed before I told anybody. I said, well, why? And he goes, because you could end humanity with it. That's all I know. That's all he said. But I'll never forget that moment. We're sitting by the fire in my house. He said that. Um, so I have no idea what that means. Maybe he's making it up. I don't think so, though. But I don't think so. I mean, I do think like the secrets that, you know, are there like we already know kind of, you know, the outlines of it, you know, a lot of the big history changing events are not the version that we're told is not strictly speaking true, it's a big, partly true. But it's not the whole story at all. And some of it's like very, very obvious. And, you know, the Kennedy assassination was like so clearly at the time in November of 1963, people were like, oh, what the lone gunman was just killed by a lone gunman. What are the odds? Okay. So like, even then, people didn't buy it. And so I don't know that if we find it, I mean, I think really there's a banality at the bottom of a lot of this. Once you are honest about how the world works and the world is, you know, it's a struggle between light and darkness and we're heavily influenced by supernatural forces, light and dark, but in this world, mostly dark. And the things that people want are, you know, power and wealth and acclaim and, you know, I don't think there's anything like super crazy about it. And that's the basis of all religions, the signolagement. And I think it's only because we're without religion, meaning we're without a vocabulary to describe what we're seeing that it's so shocking to us. But I think the medieval mind or the African mind or the almost any mind that ours would be like, well, yeah, of course, what do you think? You know, Candace made a video about you yesterday, made a video about me. It was about a dinner that you'd had with Charlie and Erica Kirk, but on that topic, I wanted to ask, what was your last conversation with Charlie Kirk? You know, I don't remember and I've never gone back. I got sucked into some lawsuits and so I put my text on auto-delete, which I never should have done, Fox entrapped me in a lawsuit that I wasn't even in, whatever, it's such a boring story. But the result of it was, I've always saved everything because I've been in general my whole life, so I like save things. But I put my text on auto-delete. I've since, you know, whatever changed that. But I don't have, by the time I checked, they were all gone. So I don't know when I last, I texted him a lot. And so I don't, I don't remember, but, you know, he was here in this room this summer before the summer. He was killed on September 10th and he was here not that long before. I mean, there was a lot of drama about me speaking at the turning point event in December. I'm not for me, I was happy to, but there was so much pushback against that, that I had many conversations with him about it and they were all basically along the lines of this, I said, you know, oh man, this is awful for you. I don't care, by the way. I talk enough. I don't know, I insist I'm not giving into this, you know, all the Neocons, all the Israel agents of Israel, we're pushing him really hard to cancel me. Trump is just going to elect it against cancel culture and all of a sudden, like, Josh Hammer and like, that weird weekend host on Fox or like determining who's allowed to speak in public at the whole thing. So crazy. I couldn't hardly, if it was happening, it was just a four-taste of how, of what we're going through now. But anyway, whatever, the point is, I talked to him a lot about it and I was always like dude, I do not need to do this. And he was absolutely insist, that's true. He was absolutely insistent on it. And his views on Israel were not very different from mine at all. So there's of course a big effort to lie about that. But it is a lie because I talked about him a lot, a lot. And so anyone is telling you that he was a, you know, a blind supporter of Israel is lying or doesn't, never didn't talk to him, but I did, I talked to him a lot about this topic. So why would someone say that? You know, I, I don't know, I haven't really weighed in on the, on the turning point thing, you know, I've always, I've known Erica for a long time and I, some instance she was dating Charlie, he introduced me to her, I had lunch with him and I've always really liked her and I felt so sad, so sad for her when he was murdered. And I still feel that way. And I know that she's taken a lot of grief, I haven't participated in any of it. I don't read it. I really tried to stay away from it, but I feel sorry for her. But you know, there are people there who I know well at turning point who all of a sudden found themselves in positions that they didn't sign up for, they weren't hired for and they weren't suited for. And they've been under enormous pressure and they've done a really bad job. I feel sorry for them because they didn't sign up for it actually, Charlie got murdered. So they, they're doing their best and they're not suited for it at all. And, and they're under all this pressure and I think they've made some bad decisions and, you know, not supporting Massey, not demanding that Trump end this war. Those are, those are major failures like Charlie was aggressively anti neocon. He said it a lot. He couldn't have been clearer about that. And so, you know, I think for the sake of his memory and consistency and also just decency and the country, they should have continued with that posture, but they didn't. And I know they're under tons of pressure and all these creepy donors, you know, who or like, "Caribbean Israel more than the United States." Okay, well, life is hard and you want the job, you want the salary, get in there and do us right. I don't have as much sympathy, even though I have sympathy for them personally, like these are people I like a lot, and not criticism, no plan to criticize, but it makes me sad. So that's how I feel. I don't want to ask about Candace's video, I think you've implied it from what you've said, but Charlie was very anti-neocon. I just want to be clear, very. And anyone who says he wasn't, either didn't know him or talked to him or his lying, it's like literally that simple. And would you suspect that his wife had very differing viewpoints? She's taken so much heat and I have said, I'm sure I'll be attacked for saying it 'cause she's taking so much heat, but I've always liked her and I feel so sorry for her. And no, she did not have so far as I could tell, who knows what people really think? Or, but I can just tell you that it was definitely, I want to underscore definitely not my impression that Charlie was like anti-neocon and she was like some secret neocon. That was definitely not my impression. Now, who knows what, I actually texted with her two days ago. I haven't talked to her, but I'm going to. And I like her and I've just tried to stay out of it. And I think in order of what I think, I'll just tell you what I think. I think it's hard for me to believe that Charlie was murdered because of his views on trans rights. Maybe he was, but anyone demanding that I believe that without evidence is an enemy of the truth. That's what I think, okay? So if you think that, prove it to me. But don't scold me or tell me, you know, can to someone's anti-semito be quiet? You know, he's my friend, so I'm not, why would I stand for that? I'm not standing for that. I think it's unlikely that's my personal view. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm waiting for the trial, but I don't like at all the way they've handled us at all. And Joe Kent, who I know very well, very well, it is an honest and reasonable person, not a hater at all, not a hater of Israel or any of this nonsense. He's an honest man with the highest level security clearance said in public to me and others, there was evidence, not proof evidence to suggest foreign involvement in this. Doesn't mean there was foreign involvement. It means that there are threads we need to follow, leads we need to track down and the FBI refused. And the FBI has not responded to that. So as a friend of Charlie's, an actual friend of Charlie's, I think it's fair for me to say, what is that? It's not an attack on turning point or anything. It's just like, what is that? And no one will answer the question. Shut up, anti-Semite. How is that? It's nothing to do with that. This is my friend gets murdered. And here's a US official saying that our main domestic law enforcement agency didn't follow up on all leads. So is that part of the conspiracy? I have no idea, but it's negligent at best. And I'm just amazed by, maybe I shouldn't be amazed, but it's like people to square off into their camps. You see this in our politics too. So and so's a, he's a liberal, he's a Democrat. We gotta hate him. Well, I don't, okay. I'm against liberals. I've never voted Democrat and never will. I don't think, but maybe he's saying something true. Maybe we should just assess what people say on the basis of whether it seems right or not. And if they raise a valid question, let's get an answer to it. And this is immediately devolved into this like, you know, fight between two people. Well, okay, it's bigger than that. I mean, I literally had someone text me who I know very well, scolding me like yelling at me in a text like you said something nice about Candaceous. Well, I love Candaceous and she's like a friend of mine. I haven't followed all of this like, I have no idea, right? I don't know the details and I'm not gonna be scolded into following it. I don't want to. It's upsetting to me. I don't want to, I just want someone. But anyway, the point is like, I'm not allowed to be friends with Candace Owens because you just like, what is this? It's like cultural revolution stuff. I'm not playing along with it at all. I like Candace Owens a lot. And I've always liked Erica Kirk, sorry. And I feel sorry for Erica Kirk. I don't like the fact that TPOSA didn't do more to resist the Iran War, which is insane and terrible for this country. I don't like the fact that they didn't defend Masi. And I don't think the FBI is doing an adequate job investigating this murder. Those are the things that I believe. And maybe they contradict each other, I don't know, but that's what I think. You'd also said they didn't investigate Trump's last assassination. He shut it down. He shut down the investigation in his own attempted murder. That's a fact. That's not something I made up. That's something Dan Bunchino told me. So, and it's also obvious. It's obviously true. And I found out that by accident, and I had no interest in like looking into Butler, but somebody sent me, randomly someone I never met, sent me the real social media post of Thomas Kirk's, which the FBI didn't, and I confirmed that they're real. And they are real. And the FBI's now confirmed they're real. So that was just random. That just happened to me one day, okay? Didn't expect that. And that fact, that unexpected fact, put me into contact with the leadership of the FBI, including Dan Bunchino. And they attacked me for bringing this information to them before I even put it in public. I was like, "Hey, I got this. You should know this." And they went crazy on me. I don't respond well to that. Why would I? So in the course of those very unhappy conversations, Dan Bunchino was hysterical. Like actually hysterical, hysterical. And terrified, I have no idea about what, but he was, said that Trump shut it down. I never said that in public because it was a private conversation. Next thing I know, Dan Bunchino's attacking me, okay? So I say this and releases like four out of, I don't know, three dozen text messages from me to prove that's not true, well, it is true. And I'm not gonna respond by releasing all the text messages 'cause I don't want to release private text messages. I could. But I don't wanna go there. I don't like this whole world where like we text each other and then we post screenshots like I don't wanna participate in that. But it's not even about poor Dan Bunchino's been totally destroyed by this as a man. I feel sorry for him. It's about the question of like what happened? And okay, you, Trump didn't shut down the administration. Well, where's the investigation? And why can't we see the evidence that the US government has gathered and this which belongs to us? Why can't I see that? Shut up. No. How's that? Like what's the answer then? It's just crazy to me. And anyway, I'm not playing along. Not because I hate Dan Bunchino. I feel sorry for Dan Bunchino. Not because I hate Trump. I feel sorry for Trump. Hmm. But because why would I play along? Why would I do that? Tucker, you've been with your wife, Susie, since you were 15. Is that right? 42 years. What does she understand about you that would surprise people listening to? Oh, I have no idea. I mean, we're wasps. You know, the self-awareness level's very low. (laughing) I have no idea. I think she likes me. Nice to meet you this morning. She's a great person, the best person I've ever met by far. No, my wife is a great person in my view. And we have, I think, I hate even to say it 'cause it sounds so braggie, but like a very unusually happy marriage because she has her prior, I mean, I've never met anybody who's more totally focused on her priorities. Believe certain things are important and other things are not important and she spends 100% of her day on the important things. Period. I've never seen anyone, I've never met anyone who's less distracted by the noise than my wife. She does not even hear it. She tunes it right out. If it doesn't have to do with Jesus, her family, her dogs, her friends, it, nature. It is just not of interest at all. And she's not embarrassed of that. She doesn't feel the need to like play along and be like, well, actually, I think she's like, it's not even a thing. It doesn't enter into her life. We don't talk about it. And so to live with someone like that, she's also relentlessly nice. She's just a nice, and you know, she's in our world, our little world that we live in. Which is not that little really, but you know, a big family and a lot of long time friends, my business partner is my college roommate. So it's like, I live in a world that's been in place for many decades, and in that world, you know, she's the more famous one. Like she is, we said a big family event, a wedding, and you know, she's really the star of our world 'cause people just see her as a really unusual person. She's really an unusual person. I'll say that not like anybody else I've ever met. So, yeah, no. So that's been, yeah, that's been the really the basis of my happiness and I have no complaints. And I think she understands me perfectly well. I mean, really well, but more than anything, she's the times in my life when I've, you know, kind of blown it up in some cases. It's, as you said, because I'm such a principal and it tells the truth. But other times I've been fired or screwed it up because I'm like lazy or distracted or drunk or whatever. whatever. I mean, like a lot of my failures have been my fault. Most of them have been my fault. She has been, I mean, that's really when you find out who your wife is, when things don't go according to plan. You know, it's kind of like the famous Mike Tyson, quote, about, you know, everyone got a plan to like, it's hit in the face. Well, you're going to get hit in the face. You're going to get cancer or fired or, you know, whatever. Your dog is hit by a car like horrible things happen. And she, I mean, that's when you find out in like the number of women who are like, what? We have to resign from the club. Like, I did not sign up for this. Like, you know, I've seen people, they're, the wife gets squirrely, you know, for real. My wife is like, who cares? She literally said to me in my favorite moment ever when I got fired in 2009 at the height of the financial crisis, we had to move because I couldn't afford a house. And I got fired because my ratings were bad because I was lazy and disengaged and entitled because I've been famous since I was in my 20s. And so I was like, pretty amazing guy. But I wasn't an amazing guy. I was like a lucky guy, but I didn't know the difference then. But anyway, I get fired. I totally blow up our life. And I have to go home and tell her this. I was in New York. I took the train home as a fired guy. I mean, my wife doesn't, we don't have a TV. So she doesn't watch my show. She is really only a vague idea what I do for a living, but she thinks that I'm like going to be king of the world. Like, she's, she's really all in. You know, she's always been a big booster. So she has no idea that I've screwed it up. Like, she's no idea. She has no idea that I'm like failing at work and get fired. So I go home and I'm like, I'll never forget we're lying in bed and with the dogs. And I said, yeah, I just got fired. And I don't know what we're going to do. And she goes, just move to Vermont. And we'll just live in Vermont. You know, it's like way cheap in Vermont. This is back when it was cheap in Vermont. And we'll just like get a farm. We can afford that. You know, we had like a little bit of equity in our house. We'll just, and you can just write books. We're living. That'll be so fun. Send our kids to a public school. Like it'll be awesome. You know, because we both obviously love New England and grew up coming here. So I was like, as soon as she said that, I was like, first of all, I married the right girl. Second, I was like, oh, I'll recover as long as I have her own board. You know, because you can easily destroy man easily. They're fragile like glass, like push them in some direction. And they're just like hard as diamonds. You hit them sideways and it is shatter. And the fastest way to shatter a man is to shake his woman's confidence in him. Like they can take on a full army. They'll go over the top of the trench and, you know, run into machine gunfire. But like if the girls like, I don't think you know what you're doing, they just fall apart. And so at that moment, that just gave me the strength. And I was fine. I mean, I had took me many years to rebuild my life, but I never doubted it would be fine after that. So that is right there. That's been the basis of my strength. Your mom, Shia, left when you and your brother, when you were six. And you never saw her again. Right. Right. Now, not in regards to the will or the cases, but what do you actually remember about your mom? Not that much. She was, I mean, I remember honestly, mostly positive things. I mean, she was a lunatic. For real, huge personality, good looking, arrogant. So we're like a man actually kind of just like big, loud, aggressive personality, create a little crazy, but kind of stylish, you know, totally negligent. I remember that because I remember getting hassled at school because of that, like no one combed her hair. But you know, I don't have really bad memories really. I mean, she was pretty outrageous, like pretty outrageous, like hard, hard even to believe it. But you know, it was a different time. It was the 70s. I mean, honestly, one of the reasons I'd never talk or think about it really is that social mores have changed so much. The society has changed so much. I grew up in a very, I mean, this was Los Angeles and the Royal Canyon or whatever in 1975. So it's just different country, different kinds of behavior. People were outrageous. And so if you were counted now, it's like, what? But it wasn't that bad actually. I remember thinking when I was a little like, I'm never raising my kids like this. I remember thinking that I had that thought in first grade. I was like, I'm not doing this. Even then, I was like, I'm not doing this. This is not right. This is because you're little kids now. It's drugs and stuff like that. So but it wasn't, I mean, I had a much happier childhood than a lot of people I know whose parents stayed together. I mean, she split. So it was like, and my father was a remarkable, really remarkable, one in a million type person, like an unbelievable person. Never met anyone like that before or since. So that was such a blessing to us that when she laughed, it was like, you know, boohoo and, you know, she wasn't a huge fan of ours, whatever, but that's her problem. That was actually a source of strength for us long term, I think, because like, you can't control what other people think about you, including your own mother. So that was the lesson that we took from that. You just stand up to you, you know, and I never blame myself for it, which was a lot of kids like, if their parents don't like them there, what did I do wrong? I never thought that. I was like, that's your problem. You're the adult. Like I always was clear about that. And it was not my fault. So I didn't spend the next 50 years being like, how did I go wrong? It's like, no, you're in that case. It's your fault. Like I just totally, maybe I'm the psychopath or something, but it just seemed even in first grade. I was like logical. It was like, you know, you like cocaine or whatever you're into more than you like us. That's on you, dude. So, and I still feel that way. And I feel sorry for her. I'm not mad about it at all. But we had actually a pretty happy childhood. If you have like a out of control parent, in the option is living with the person or not, like choose the not. You know what I mean? Like, how was that good? It's not good. So she split. My dad was the opposite about a control. He was incredibly eccentric and totally out of step with American society. And like a deep, free thinking intellectual, crazy person who had this like, utterly bizarre life, like, weird attitudes. But like, they were great attitudes. They were hilarious at it. He was hilarious and like, loyal and loving, endlessly supportive of us, endlessly kind to us. He was just an amazing person. Like my brother and I worshiped our dad from from our first memories until the day he died last year. Like we never had a moment where we were like, you know, dads out of control or dead. We're like, dad's a little eccentric, like, like beyond what is even legal. But he's amazing. Like we loved him. So that like more than compensated. For any drama we had with our mother, I didn't tell anybody about it for like the first 40 years in my life because it was so bizarre that I didn't, I won't talk about it. And I had some amazing stepmother who was like an incredible person, beautiful soul and just an endlessly kind person. Just one of the kindest people I've ever met. So what are the odds of that? You wind up with a stepmother. I mean, I was a little bit older. So it wasn't like a typical mother, son, relationship, but especially over time I came to think that she was really one of the greatest people I've ever met. What are the odds of that? You get a stepmother that you revere. You know, and I do. I mean it. And it makes me emotional thinking about what a great just pure love, just a loving person she was. Both my parents were just amazing people. So I feel really blessed. So that's, you know, from my perspective, it's like I had a employee with one of my favorite and long time employee of mine. I was like that of, you know, very colorful family life, not this employee's fault, but just the larger family was like completely insane. And my and was very embarrassed about it. And I said, you know, I grew up like that. And it helps to see it as like a movie. Like if you were writing this script, you'd be like, that is a wild story. Did that really happen? Like gives you some emotional distance. It's like hilarious. And my brother's exactly the same way. So like we never would talk about in public. But like when we're you know, alone on a hunting trip or, you know, ever worked together, which is a lot, sometimes we'll laugh about it. Like can you believe that? So we both have the same like emotional distance from it. So you can sort of like, it's almost like I'm glad that I saw all that. Like who would believe that? Anyway, you said your father passed last year, 2025. Yep, March. He refused painkillers up until the very end. Yep. What's one thing your dad taught you? Well, that, I mean, that was the craziest thing I've ever seen. My father, I don't care what it sounds like. It's true. Had the best death of anybody I've ever even heard of. And it was just he was himself until the second he died. And he, you know, was it like a truly eccentric, not in a bad way, but just like totally uninterested in what the majority thought. Like not even interested at all. My brother's the same way. Just not interested in like not mad about it. But like what? That's absurd. He was just a truly independent man like you don't meet people like that ever and he'd had quite a life So that he was a product of that life. So that's why he was that way, but anyway. He was that way till the very end and I don't ever want to judge other people's end end of life decisions or whatever, but I Don't because I understand the dress and the grief that come into play But the way that we hand we as a the system the medical system the end of life stuff is really Dark and bad and my father just rejected every bit of it and that's not easy at all Is anyone who's been through it can tell you like they're all these well-meaning decent loving people who are trying to impose things on your Family that are not good or the work good for us and will definitely want what he wanted and they were up in his face and He'd banned everyone from except My brother and my wife and me from the house, you know for the last six weeks or whatever Was us and his dogs and he just refused any Pain killers not because he wasn't in pain. He was in like I mean, I think unbelievable pain But he's just wanted to be himself because I'm dying and why would I want to? Be not myself in front of the people I love most and The I mean, I My brother and I talk about all the time. It's like well, I'd be mad enough to do that I don't know. I mean, that is my prayer. It actually makes me I tremble in the face of something like that But he did it and it was the right thing It was the right thing on a level that I'll never be able to really explain, but it was incredible The dignity the decency the clarity What he got out of that in return for unimaginable suffering was just Unbelievable when he died And we cried but not that much to be honest with you not that much and The take away that we had the three of us and we did his funeral alone the three of us as we done my stepmother at our family plot We're the only people to funeral And we talked about it then and we had a family memorial later and we talked about them too But like what we took away from his death in his death. He revealed to he really was and he was exactly who we thought he was It's incredible. I mean you can imagine excuse me a scenario where you get to the end with someone you really love And it turns out that person is like not really who you thought he was He was so much more who he thought he was it was it was unbelievable. We're just like this is insane It was it was incredible. I visited him every day and I would always call my children and say in the you know You're before he died and I would always dread going to see him because it's like so hard to watch your parents age And every single day I would leave and be like oh, I'm so glad I went like it was amazing so many levels but Yeah, it was like the greatest thing you ever did for us was that death. I know it sounds weird. I don't know what to say I'm just telling what I experienced But it was beyond anything I'd ever seen his toughest human being Ever in a good way not a fake way not a I'm gonna kick your ass But he was very capable of that and did do that sometimes other people but But he was just a tough and like a true sense like he never complained one time Like a period. I mean he was an old-fashioned New England person Born at mass general in 1941 and he was just a product of his time and like we you know Protestant New Englanders do not complain under any circumstances even when they have gangrene on their feet. They do not complain period And he literally never did one time I mean could I do that? I don't so I'm a product of a different time of well my feet hurt When you think about This conversation I the spiritual war going on and The last 30 years of your career It seems to me that the one thing you've valued above everything else is Getting to the truth trying to speak the truth when you can and Hopefully you'll be rewarded for it by Getting to ask the one person who can actually give you all the answers you want Assuming you'll go to heaven. Ah, what's the one question you would ask God? Gosh Can you let all my loved ones in Um, or I guess what would you ask him now? Oh What should I do? I mean that is the question I ask you know, it's it's so unclear sometimes The right decisions what to say what to in try to Inspire another people You know my Problem has always been saying too much talking too much, you know, there are all kinds of warnings all of the Bible Psalms Brawverbs New Testament to shut up once in a while and be thoughtful about what you say. I've always had a problem with that. I always talk too much Um, and I know that it's bad and I know that sometimes I play out like my inner monologue in public And I think that it has a bad effect on people makes people paranoid or nihilistic or you know, it's all fake. It's not worth participating. It makes people hopeless like that Those are my worries for my own behavior I also have the capacity to be mean I'm constantly calling Tom Cotton gay or whatever which I shouldn't be doing And we're Lindsey Graham or whatever and I Can't I get so mad I can't control myself so I'm like mean and then I pretend I'm not mean But I actually that is meant in cruelty which is wrong So getting control of myself is uh, you know a lifelong struggle And I'm not very good at it So but like what should I be focused on what should I be saying Because you get to the bottom or what you think at least is the bottom of a lot of these mysteries and Or this is how I feel anyway And I was like, yeah, I kind of knew that you know 9/11 was pretty fake Okay What do you do with that? It was entirely fake but it's pretty fake and Okay, but what what that's worth saying because why Did you know what I mean like what is the point like what am I trying to get other people to believe and to do And I spend very little time thinking about that and I want to think about that more Because you never think anyone's watching. I mean that's the other thing You know when you to me everything is my childhood. It's like the endless dinner party You know, that was always our family into this day is our family's main form of entertainment at dinner parties Always at dinner parties always Place cards and like bunch of people to table play games and conversations and like And that's just like my whole life is sitting in a table talking And so sometimes I'm I am not mindful or thoughtful about the effect on listeners Do you know what I mean? And you can like radicalize people by saying stuff that I think is true By the way, I'm not attempting. I'm not doing it for raid agents or whatever I've never cared about that ask anyone who works here But I am not thoughtful about The effects sometimes so so then the so the question really is like what should I be doing? What should I be talking about Hmm can't do another segment on how 9/11 was fake could we know that so What what next and I think I want to do segments that express The joy of life because I do feel like there's a lot of joy in life Other people nature Those are the sources of joy for me and how do I inspire that in like in other people? How do I uplift not just tear down? What would you guess he might say? Well, I should be talking about God more. I mean, that's the truth. I should be talking about God more That's what matters What matters is what happens in eternity what matters is how you treat other people All of that is dependent on how you feel about God And I should and I'm just embarrassed because I this is not false humility. It's true. I do I am very aware of my own Shortcomings as a man my own sins So it's just and I'm also not you know from that culture at all where people talk about God all the time It was always very very like do not talk the culture I'm from it's like don't talk about that God or money like no So it is hard for me to talk about it But I feel like I should be talking about it more I came to a similar realization I would say so I went on in my first podcast talked about God a little bit. I had to go It was good. It was I was trying to maintain this conscious effort of how do I say truth While also telling people that sometimes it's not look worth looking into The abyss because it can pull out your mind. Yes, you can just understand it. That is true and Ultimately like Everything that's happening now seems to me like it leads people down a path of anxiety and I don't know when you're anxious. There are two things you can do you can pray to God or you can build technology. If it's dark and you're scared, you can pray to God, say it'll be okay or you can start a fire. That was the first technology. We're stuck by animals. It goes out from there. Right. Yeah. Those people might invade us so we have to get guns so they don't do so. I bought a lot of ammo. I'll be honest. I'm an anxiety ammo buyer. But it's, you're right, it's stupid. It is stupid. You shoot, but like, anxiety ammo buying is dumb. But boy, I've done a lot of it. No, I think you're right, inspiring people rather than discouraging them, encouraging people not to stare at darkness is so important and I think being joyful really helps. The Iran War has definitely derailed me in this category like I've been so mad about it that it's unhealthy. I'm coming out of that, but I just, you know, whatever I thought that I could influence the outcome I couldn't. So part of it is wounded vanity, I guess, probably, but part of it is just like this is bad. I'm not. So I've been staring at the darkness too much and that's not. By the way, my personal life, I'm not like that at all. I mean, I'm only like that at work. We don't talk about this stuff at my house. We talk about our family, which is big, huge and interesting and I could live in family world like full-time, wouldn't make any money, wouldn't, you know, it probably wouldn't be healthy for anyone else, but like I could never leave my house and have, you know, various people come and stay with us and evolve to all the dramas and triumphs and the limited sadness and interest, like a life of the lives of people I love. I mean, I could do that literally full-time. So, and I think we should all do more of that, by the way. And so I should probably convey the joy that I feel every single day, every single day. I feel happy to be alive and happy for all the gifts, mostly of nature, sunshine and grass and pine trees and spaniels and like I really feel that stuff, like so intensely it's crazy, but I almost never, it's always like the people who run the country are horrible, which is so true. On the other hand, they're already being punished because they live in a world without pine trees or spaniels or sunshine, like they, they're indoors plotting world domination. Well, the jokes on them, it's not worth getting, okay? The prizes you seek are not worth having. They will not make you happy. They will make you miserable. Having a billion dollars is not the road to happiness. I know a lot of people who do, they're not happy. Having a wife who respects you and kids who thrive and dogs on the bed, like that's way more important than a billion dollars and like I should just say that more, rather than beat up on people who are already suffering. Like the people who are suffering most are like, you think Lindsey Graham is happy. I should look at Lindsey Graham the way, you know, God looks at Lindsey Graham or looks at all of us, by the way, with empathy and you're not happy or you wouldn't be calling for the murder of civilians, happy people don't do that, right? The kind of person some people might have to become to be a billionaire is often the kind of person that can't make themselves happier and the only thing that they find joy in is making others unhappy. Yeah, if you make a billion dollars as a byproduct of doing something awesome, great. I don't have a problem with that at all, but if your goal is to make a billion dollars or sick and you're also dumb because that is not the road to happiness at all. It's the road to misery, literal misery. It's crazy. I was in some country a couple of years ago. I was in the middle east and I was having dinner with somebody who mentioned Larry Fink who runs Black Rock. So I don't know Larry Fink never even met him, but I was like, Larry Fink, what a bad guy pushing ESG and climate cold crap and just basically hurting the world for his own benefit. And this guy goes, do you know Larry Fink? I said, no, I never even met him. He goes, I know him, I was just with him in New York, there's not an unhappier person in the world. He goes, I was just in the back of the car with Larry Fink and like his wife called or somebody called. He was like screaming at the person. I was really in front of you because he couldn't help himself. He's just that unhappy. And I thought, man, that's all of them. That's all the people that I am mad at for misusing their power and for not loving the people they bleed. They're all in full misery. And for all my many faults, like I'm like literally happy all the time every day. So I should be compassionate. I should be saying prayers for Larry Fink. They shouldn't be like, culminating about Larry Fink. He should go to jail. Oh, he's already there, dude. It's just in his head. Last question here because I know you have to run, Tucker, what's the best piece of advice you've ever received? I mean, there are two, one is broad, one is narrow. The broad is if you force yourself to be honest in all things, which does not mean disclosing all things. It doesn't mean making your life fully transparent to the world or your internal deliberations public. You don't have to do that. But not lying. It's a negative commitment. Don't lie. If you really push yourself on that, it's, first of all, the first thing you'll realize is how much you lie, which is like constantly about small things, but you shade things or you steer, you know, if you fight against that, you'll never defeat it. But if you can fight against it, you will be so much stronger lying makes you weak. And every time you lie, you become weaker because you know it's a lie. And so you have to keep on this ill-fitting costume. So just try to make a daily discipline out of telling the truth in the small things. And you become filled with holy power when you do that. It's just a fact. And the second piece of advice, which I always sort of knew, but I'd never heard anyone say it, but it is the truest thing. If you want happy children, have a happy marriage. That is the truest thing. And the most important thing is happy children. What are you doing here? You know, creating is the most important thing in the ultimate act of creation in this life is having children, creating children, which is fun, by the way. But anyway, how do you make them happy? And like I always noticed raising kids, I had kids, young. There's no like handbook or anything at all. There aren't even many books on it because there's no real answer. Other than love your children, well, how do you do that? The number one thing is by getting along with your wife. If you have a happy marriage, you will have happy children. It's literally that simple. I believe that I've seen it. It's true for people close to me. The happier the marriage, the happier the kids are more secure the children will become. And I sincerely think that people spend too much time focused on their kids as like an emotional safety release valve where they're frustrated and kids give you easy affirmation, which is all great. It's not bad. You've got to spend your first priority is to your wife number one and many to hear that. And it just pays off. It's much harder to get affirmation from your wife than from your children. I mean, she sees you in a get out of the shower. She's just not that impressed after a while on like that level, but keep take that so seriously. Take your marriage so seriously. It's super easy. It's not hard. You just have to pay attention. That's the discipline of just paying attention. Anyway, that pays off more than anything. Nothing pays off like that. That's one of those investments that just, it's crazy. The returns you get off that. It's like, by the way, you married her in the first place. You like her. They're pretty easy to get along with if you just try kind of, but people don't try and they get frustrated and they run away and they almost always run into the arms not of their mistress, but of their children. That's the real cheating that takes place. It's not with the girlfriends, with the kids. It's emotional. So you don't understand your wife. It's complicated. You're sleeping with her. So it's complicated. It's complicated. It's always complicated. And you're so close to her that these conflicts can arise. And rather than work through them, fix them just by listening, nothing complex. You seek the sugar high of the love of the six-year-old and you tell yourself that that's a good thing. I mean, it's always a good thing to experience a love of a six-year-old. It's an incredibly beautiful thing, but it's also a dodge in a lot of ways. Focus on your wife and the kid's stuff is just organic. It just naturally flows from a happy marriage. It's like the easiest, funnest thing ever with some minor interruptions, namely 8th grade if you have daughters, but other than that, it's like really easy. And if you have an unhappy marriage, everything is hell. Everything is hell. There's nothing. There's no way out of that hell. There's literally no solution. You can have a girlfriend. You can go to hookers. You can be coming alcoholic. You can just run away and play golf all the time. You can get divorced. It doesn't matter. You're not getting out of the hell. There's no way out. Once you get married, if you don't have a happy marriage, you can make it better. I guess leaving an unhappy marriage could make it better, but you'll never really solve it. As you are joined to that person permanently, that's just a fact, whether we want it to be or not. - Yeah, I focus on that. That's my advice. - Beautiful. - Well, everyone, this has been your guest. Tucker Carlson. This is the Jack Neil podcast. I appreciate you coming on. - Oh, dude, I love it. - Yeah, awesome. - That was fun.