Trump's Revenge Leads to Republican Revolt

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We also have Carlos Eduardo Espina, Simone Sanders, Townsend, Eugene Daniels, David Pakman, Jessica Tarloff, Heather McGee, and then all the other people that we've announced on the website, plus more to come. Great list. Check out the full lineup and get tickets right now at crookedcon.com. We'd love to see you there. That's crookedcon.com. We'll see you there. We'll also talk about how Trump may have made things even worse for his party with his endorsement of Ken Paxton over John Cornyn in Texas. And then just to prove that Republicans aren't the only ones stepping on rakes, we'll talk about the long-awaited release of the 2024 DNC autopsy and whether Ken Martin's job as DNC chair is in jeopardy. We'll also talk about new results from this week's New York Times poll focused on what Democratic voters want from the Democratic Party. Then you'll hear Tommy's interview with California gubernatorial candidate Matt Mahan. 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It seems like just yesterday, because it was, that the White House warned us to never again doubt Donald Trump's political power. And certain journalists proclaimed an incredible few weeks for the president's political operation. This is all because Trump's handpicked primary challengers defeated Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy and Kentucky Congressman Thomas Massey. Well, 24 hours later, here's a text from a Republican senator to Punchbowl News. Quote, Our majority is melting down before our eyes. So what happened? What happened? Well, the Senate was supposed to be voting on Trump's bill to fund ICE. But then he also demanded $1 billion for his ballroom. And he announced that he's stealing $2 billion from taxpayers so that he can potentially hand out cash payments to January 6th rioters who almost killed police officers and basically anyone else he thinks has been mistreated by the justice system. Neither of these things sat very well with some Republicans, including people like Bill Cassidy, whose career Trump just ended. And after a reportedly tense meeting about the insurrectionist slush fund with Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche, where some Republicans proposed restrictions on the slush fund, Senate Majority Leader John Thune canceled the vote entirely and told everyone to go home until June. Here's Blanche and J.D. Vance earlier in the week refusing to rule out taxpayer-funded payouts for violent insurrectionists. You know who never, ever, gets an ounce of sympathy when it comes to that disproportionate sentencing is people who voted for Donald Trump and participated in the January 6th protest. -Will individuals who assaulted Capitol Hill police officers be eligible for this fund? -Well, as it makes plain, anybody is -- -Just let me know if they're eligible for the fund. -As was made plain yesterday, anybody in this country is eligible to apply. -You're not going to submit this proposal to any federal judge or individual? -There is no judge. -Any independent authority? -An independent -- What does that mean, an independent authority? -It means not somebody who's getting to pick five of the members who is the president's former personal attorney. That would be somebody who would be independent. -I'm the Acting Attorney General, okay? The fact that I used to be President Trump's lawyer is just a fact, but I'm the Acting Attorney General. So don't say the president's former personal lawyer will do something. The Acting Attorney General will do something. -Mr. Attorney General, you are acting today like the president's personal attorney, and that's the whole problem. -That's the good news. -It's the good shit right there. -It's the good shit. What a fucking whiner. So after Senate Republicans were in revolt and the majority was melting down, Trump was asked about it in the Oval on Thursday. Here's what he said. -Are you losing control on the Senate, Senate Republicans? -I don't know. I really don't know. I can tell you I only do what's right. I don't need money for the ballroom. You know, I'm making a gift to the ballroom. This is the biggest misreporting that I've ever seen. -Okay, well, we'll dig into that in a little bit. An incredible week for Trump's political operation, Dan. Just an incredible week. -Incredible. Truly unbelievable. -Let's start with the slush fund. You and I talked about this on last Friday's episode, and we talked about how Trump potentially settling the IRS lawsuit by personally pocketing billions in taxpayer dollars was maybe the worst political move we could imagine. And then they did the slush fund right as we were finishing the recording, so we only briefly got to talk about it. What do you think? What do you think about the political move of, instead of Trump just pocketing the cash, deciding to put it in a fund with no accountability whatsoever so they can secretly pay out whoever they'd like? -Look, these brilliant fucking geniuses in the Trump political team, the same ones who spent $20 million to defeat a Republican congressman in a district that Trump won by 35 points, really figured this one out. So instead of giving billions of dollars to one criminal, they're going to give $1.776 billion, which is so clever, to an untold number of criminals, many of whom committed violent offenses, assaulting the Capitol and assaulting police officers. It is a move so bad that even Republican senators can figure out that it's bad politically. -Just so. I mean. Part of this is, it's such a politically bad move that I've been shocked by it. I've been laughing about it because how could you be so stupid? It's fun watching the Republicans freak out about this and everything fall apart. But NPR did a story about it where they, you know, started going through some of the potential January 6th convicted felons or people who were going to be on trial until Trump pardoned them to talk about how this would play out. This guy, Jake Lang, he admitted to using a bat to attack police. He was on trial for assault when Trump pardoned him. He's now a white power activist who's on video saying the N-word and giving Nazi salutes. When NPR called to confirm that he plans to apply for a payout, which he did, he confirmed it, he answered the phone, "Jake Lang's office, America's newest billionaire." And he said that the message, he told NPR that the message Trump was sending what the fund is, and this is a quote from the insurrectionist who beat police officers with a bat, quote, "If you do the right thing in the face of evil, you will be rewarded for your bravery and patriotism." That's what's happening there. That's what's happening. Another January 6th rioter, Andrew Paul Johnson, is currently serving a life sentence in prison for sexually abusing two children who he tried to keep quiet by promising them, quote, "my Trump bucks," that he expected to get as part of a restitution fund. And then that exchange we watched between Van Hollen and Blanche, Van Hollen was asking about that case and asking Blanche to rule out that that fucking guy could apply for a payout from the slush fund. And you heard Blanche like he just he won't rule it out. I mean, it's pretty clear what happened here is Trump wanted his money. I think he someone was able to convince him that him directly taking the money was probably a bridge too far politically. And plus, he's made so many other billions from so many other crooked schemes that he could take a pass on this one. But he obviously wasn't going to let it go. And they were facing this deadline, because if they did, because there was a court imposed deadline. So right the day before the court imposed deadline, they hatched together a poorly thought out plan that they thought would appeal to Trump. Right. It's not as bad as Trump getting the money, although that is actually debatable, but would, you know, it would still fit with his need for revenge. And it's like perfect Trump, like these people, these are my people, I'm going to help my people, I'm going to hook up my people. And they didn't think through any of the consequences. They just assumed every Republican would be for it. And they, as you said, they stepped on a rake, like a very obvious, very clear, very politically damaging rake, but they did it because they're kind of morons. And there's no oversight. There's no oversight, no accountability over this fund whatsoever. We may never know who they pay, how much they pay them, who applies, who gets accepted into this fucking slush fund, who gets denied. None of that, because Trump picks the people on the board, except for one gets appointed by Congress, who, you know, he can find a lackey in Congress to give him whoever he wants. Trump can fire them at any time. The report is not required to be released to the public in any way, shape or form. So the whole thing. The whole thing is just a fucking scam. And it seems like it's, I mean, I guess two January 6th police officers filed a lawsuit to try to stop this, but there are going to be, I guess that's the best case they can make for standing, right? Because they were police officers harmed in this. But the challenge is to have, like, who has standing to sue on this? And the fact that it is a, it is legal because Congress passed a law to give the Justice Department. Basically. An unlimited fund for restitution in the event that people sue the U.S. government and then the Justice Department would have to pay it out, which is like, yeah, of course, right? If someone sues the federal government and they, and they win, the federal government has to get the money from somewhere to pay them out. But I don't think anyone envisioned that the fund would be used in this way. Nope. Just driving a corrupt truck through another giant loophole in our system. Here's a statement on the, on the fund. So the nation's top law enforcement official is asking for a slush fund to pay people who assault cops. Utterly stupid, morally wrong. Take your pick. Guess who that came from, Dan? I think I know the answer. So I'm supposed to pretend like I don't know. Was that, was that a resistance Democrat? Was that someone on MS now? Was that a, was that, was that on Wednesday's episode of only friends with you and Tommy? It was subscribe now. Mitch McConnell, Mitch McConnell. Um, well, Mitch. The reason we're in this place, by the way, is because of you. Yep. Just, you would just just have the courage that could have, could have, could have convicted him after January 6th. And then none of these writers would be getting any money. Um, how likely do you think it is that Congress will impose some kind of restrictions on the slush fund? Legislation was introduced today, Thursday to ban the entire slush fund, not restrictions, just ban it. Um, that was, that was by, um, introduced by Democrat Tom Swasey in the house and Republican. Brian Fitzpatrick, who's in a swing district in Pennsylvania and who Trump just threatened yesterday with a primary challenge in response to a question he didn't like from Fitzpatrick's fiance, Fox news reporter, Jackie Heinrich. Well, it's really clever of Trump to, uh, threaten a primary challenge on Wednesday when the primary was Tuesday, which is also, it's notable that all of a sudden Brian Fitzpatrick has found his courage the day after. Yeah. Do you think, I mean, I know that we were like not scheduled to talk about this, but on that note, like I do wonder if a lot, like we're, we're suddenly going to see an outbreak of courage among Republicans now that most of the primaries have passed. It's going to be an interesting political calculus. Like someone like Fitzpatrick who is in, he is, might be the most vulnerable Republican in the country. Um, or definitely he is a couple. He's a, he, he is up there. Um, we've got some people who have been redistricted. Yeah. Yeah. He's out of existence, but of the people who remain in their previous district, he's quite vulnerable. And, but there is this challenge for Republicans, which is on one hand, Trump attacking you would seem favorable. Like just hit. If I was Fitzpatrick, I would think in that district, I think about taking the, the footage of Trump saying that he votes against all the time and put it in an ad, but in most, but the challenge is they also need Republican turnout. And if Trump is trashing you, are that people are going to turn out for you? And that's the, that's the real question. Yeah, that is a good point. Well, so then what do you think about getting restrictions on this slush fund? Because it does seem like they're going for, uh, restrictions in this ice funding bill, which is reconciliation, which means that you would only need, you know, 51 votes in the Senate. There's two things happening here. One is, as we mentioned, the Republicans recognize this is terrible politics and they don't want to vote for it. And they, they know how bad it is. They feel the same way about the ballroom, which we'll talk about in a second. The other thing that's happening in the Senate is the people are just pissed at Trump. Like they, he took out Tom Tillis and, you know, Tom Tillis retired rather than face a primary challenge. But Roy Cooper is much more likely the next Senator of North Carolina because he's running against a anonymous RNC chair that, uh, Trump installed as the nominee. They took out Bill Cassidy. He just endorsed, as we'll talk about, just endorsed against John Cornyn, the number two person in the Senate. So they're, they're both pissed like on this personal level that he keeps taking out their friends, but they're also, he's making in almost all of these cases, he's making it less likely they keep the majority. And so I think they're starting to get restive here and are looking for some place to show that they have some measure of spine. Now, are the restrictions they're going to put in be going to likely be pretty weak? Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, that, that's the case. But I, I would be surprised. I would be surprised. And I, no one's ever made a lot of money betting on congressional Republicans to do something brave, but I would be surprised if this bill passed without some measure of something that at least is a putative fig leave of restriction on the slush fund. The challenge here is I don't think they get any, um, they're not going to get any democratic votes for it. Right. Even though, even though Democrats would want to ban this, if it goes in the ice funding bill, the restrictions, Democrats aren't going to vote for the ice. Well, you'll get it on the amendment in the, in the voterama to put it. Oh, so Democrats can get it in there. And then vote against it. And then just not vote against it. Okay. I think I just way outstripped my expertise on Senate budget procedure, but I think that's right. I think that's good enough. That's good enough for this episode. Today's show is sponsored by strawberry.me. You think about switching jobs? Maybe. Ask yourself these questions. Okay. Am I growing or just repeating the same experience over and over again? Okay. Flatter. It's a tough question to ask. Can we? Do I feel energized by my work, obviously, or am I constantly drained and counting the hours until it's over? Can I do both? Do I know what my next career move should be, or am I just hoping something better shows up? I mean, I definitely don't know that. 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I mean, look, we're not saying that you can't do that, but it is a 120-night sleep trial. That's right. That's very true. How is your sleep in an upgrade? Well, it's way more comfortable than the old one. And everyone who sleeps in our guest room. And our two boys, they're always like, I love my Helix mattress. It's so comfy. I had the best night of sleep. Damn right. Go to helixsleep.com slash cricket for 27% off site-wide. That's helixsleep.com slash cricket for 27% off site-wide. This offer is exclusive to our listeners. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you helixsleep.com slash crooked. Next up, the billion dollars Trump wants for his ballroom, which he then just said he doesn't need. On Saturday, the Senate parliamentarian ruled that the money couldn't be included in the ICE funding bill because it doesn't comply with the Senate's budget rules. Trump then demanded that Republicans fire the parliamentarian, but Republicans decided to remove the funding instead of the parliamentarian, admitting that they didn't have the votes anyway, probably because enough of them realized that asking taxpayers to fork over a billion dollars for a ballroom no one asked for is fucking crazy. Trump, meanwhile, took reporters on a tour of the construction site this week, which is, you know, that's his passion. And he defended the project as a military necessity. And he said that the roof would be a drone port. That protects all of Washington. Does he think it's like an iron dome over the White House now in Washington because of the because that's what the ballroom is? He also announced how many stories deep the bunker would be, which is probably not a piece of information you just want to hand out to the public. No, no. Is the ballroom in jeopardy? Like, does Trump Trump then said he doesn't need the money? It seems like he wanted the money pretty badly, which is why he told them to fire the parliamentarian and is getting really pissed about it. Is he going to find a way to just steal the money from taxpayers like he's been doing now with this slush fund for insurrectionists? Or maybe he just extorts more rich people with business before the government to just give donations? Yeah, it's hard to say. Once again, it seems that no one in Congress wants to vote for a billion dollars for a ballroom. And they're going to Trump is trying to do the right thing to do. Well, it's not really for the ballroom. The ballroom is paid for by all the rich people who. We're buying access in terms in exchange for the ballroom, but it's the security, the necessary security underneath the ballroom. That is the cost a billion dollars. It's too late for that. It's the one billion dollar ballroom. That's how everyone understands it. An actual impressive Democratic messaging victory in this day and age. So we should applaud that. Maybe Elon Musk, fresh off the SpaceX IPO, comes in and gives a billion dollars to build the rest of it. But I don't know how they're going to get. It doesn't seem like they're going to be able to get money out of Congress. For this this year. No one wants to do this this close to the election. Maybe they can throw something into an end of the year deal after the election. I don't know, but it seems hard. And I don't think that I think that the reason they asked for asked Congress for the money in the first place is they can't necessarily. They can't use private donations to fund like. Yeah, I assume that's the case. Security. Yeah. But then that says in something before we did. I was going to say, I mean, who do we let? Do we let Michael Dell pay our troops once? Do you see the. News that he also said he doesn't need congressional approval to build his 250 foot arc. I have to say, I've tried really hard to. Are we calling it an arch or an arc? Arch. I think it's an arch. Arch. And it's an arc in French. I'm thinking of like the arc. Yeah. Sorry. Yes. The fuck it is. We got arches. We got ballrooms. We got Qatari jets. We got. I don't know. I've lost track. We got new Kennedy centers. We have new marble armrests at the Kennedy Center, right? We have new marble armrests. Maybe we can spend some time and energy on that. New helipad. We got a new helipad coming. The drone port. I've tried really hard to not focus on the arch, as you call it, on the arch. It just seems. I mean, it seems crazy. I don't know. I finally today, because we're doing this on the podcast, I finally looked at where the arch was going to be in Virginia. It's across the river. But it also like the New York Times did a good like sort of AI rendering of of what the views would be. Like, and it kind of just like it blocks the view of the Lincoln Memorial and Arlington Cemetery. It's like bigger than anything else in Washington. It just. Yeah, it's stupid. I mean, yeah, if I was a I was a D.C. resident, I'd be fucking annoyed. But well, like no one's asking for it. Oh, no, I know. Reflecting. Don't forget. We forgot the reflect. Yeah, we are. Yeah, we are repainting the reflecting pool. Once again, a taxpayer dollars, I believe. It's just it really is declining empire shit. It just he is obsessed with. Home renovation projects like this. Like that is his true passion. He cannot be bothered with what he likes. Stealing money, revenge and interior design. It's like the most cartoonish version of corruption by like an aging dictator. He's just stealing money, cats, you know, smash and grab anywhere he can. He's just putting gold everywhere, ensconced in his fucking D.C. home that he's turning into a fucking Versailles on the Potomac. Yeah. You know, pardoning all of his friends, punishing all of his enemies, doing nothing else, decomposing before our eyes. It's just like, yeah, it's not great. It's fucking bleak, man. One more vote. Trump's having trouble with in part because he ended the careers of Republicans whose support he needs. A measure that would force him to end the war in Iran. On Tuesday, the Senate finally voted to take up the war powers resolution with newly defeated Senator Bill Cassidy flipping to vote in favor. The resolution now moves to the House, where retiring Maine Democrat Jared Golden says he now plans to flip his vote in favor as well. And all this comes as Iran is reviewing the latest U.S. peace proposal, which Trump says he'll give them a few days to do. He also said that the U.S. and Iran are, quote, right on the borderline between war and peace and that he's, quote, in no hurry to make a deal as the price of gas inches towards five dollars a gallon. What do you make of the latest developments in Iran and the and the shift of Republicans? Republicans now being in favor of the war powers resolution. Just the cycle. It's every week we wake up on Monday. There is a either a true social or an Axios post with multiple sirens that tells us that we're on the verge of a deal. We are right there. They're circling around it. That reality lasts like five hours. Then we are on the verge of war. Trump is right. We really are on the verge of both. Then we are making war plans. We're threatening to bomb people. We're ending civilization. And then at the moment right before the bombing is set to begin, things get taco'd and we are back to stalemate. And it's just we've been on rinse and repeat of this cycle for weeks now. I will say that each with each and each new draft of the peace proposal looks less like peace and more like a meaningless extension of a ceasefire. Yeah, well, this is the latest one is the latest one is just like this will be like a memo that gives 30 days for peace negotiations. Yeah, well, this is the latest one is just like this will be like a memo that gives 30 days for peace negotiations. But like nothing happens within those like the straight doesn't open in those 30 days. It's basically just where we are right now, but a more formal ceasefire for another 30 days. Well, what have they been doing for the last 30 days? I know. What's different? I don't even understand what the point of the memo is. Theoretically, people are talking somewhere, right? People are talking somewhere. Well, and it seems like the Iranians, of course, have every incentive to continue to kick the ball down the road without having to give anything up because they don't want to get bombed again. Because Trump keeps inching closer to resuming just hostilities. And Bibi is reportedly pushing him towards that as well. Apparently, there's like a tense call between Trump and Netanyahu where Trump was like, give peace a chance. And Netanyahu obviously was like, no, let's bomb the shit out of them. And so, yeah, like, would I be would I be shocked if this time we actually get some kind of a deal this weekend? No. But I would be shocked if it was actually a meaningful. Peace deal that ended the hostilities and actually for permanent. What do you think is more likely this weekend? We take a step towards peace and I'm not a bit not peace, but even like something like a memo or something. Or we invade Cuba. Oh, I think he was highly more likely. Oh, I think peace. I think I mean, can I just say the memo? I say memo. I say memo over Cuba. But when we're doing rapid response three hours after this response, the middle of its wedding. About the Cuban invasion. Yeah, they will. I will not be doing rapid response. Tommy has to do it. He's got to speak to the people. Well, you know what? We'll be at the bar. We can wave to Tommy. What are we having? Mojito? All right. One other rake Trump stepped on this week that we got to talk about. You mentioned this. The president has endorsed scandal plagued Ken Paxton over incumbent John Cornyn in the Texas Senate primary runoff. Much to the delight of Democrats in dismay of Senate Republicans. Trump called Cornyn, quote, a good man. But said that he wasn't there for him when he needed him, when times were tough. And then he dubbed Paxton a true MAGA warrior who would presumably vote for all the ballroom funding and insurrectionist payouts that Trump asked for. And the SAVE Act. That's the big one. The SAVE Act, right. Remember the SAVE Act we talked about forever? And then that's just that's dead. Yeah, I guess Ken Paxton would revive it in the next Congress. Runoff is Tuesday. What do you make of Trump's decision? Insane. A truly insane decision. And it's in the immediate aftermath. Let's just go back in time a couple of months to the Texas primary, which honestly feels like 10 years ago. But Cornyn did better than anyone expected. The assumption was that Trump said he was going to make an endorsement. Everyone assumed he was going to endorse Cornyn. Paxton was going to have if Trump had done that, Paxton would have probably had to drop out. His campaign would have dried up and Cornyn would be the nominee. Instead, he invaded Iran instead of focusing on this. Dithered for a long time. Could have just stayed. And then endorsed Ken Paxton with a week to go. Almost ensuring that Ken Paxton will be the nominee. Ken Paxton is. by every measure, less electable than John Cornyn. We've seen this in the polling. There is a slice of Republicans who will vote for Cornyn over Tallarico, but will vote for Tallarico over Paxton. And just, like, he is so, like, this is the example. He's so focused on vengeance that he decided to go after John Cornyn. We already just talked about the consequences in the Senate. And just even more practically, like, this day, I think the Cook Political Report moved this to lean Republican. They said they will if Paxton is. They will if Paxton is the nominee. So they probably still have advantages here, but the NRSC, all the super PACs are going to have to spend ungodly amounts of money in this race to try to just win a state they should have already won. All because Trump just could not help himself. Could you make a political argument? I realize it wouldn't be a good one. It's not one that I favor. That it's possible John Cornyn would be a weaker candidate than Ken Paxton because the Trump, like the hardcore MAGA base would be pissed and maybe stay home if Cornyn was the nominee. And so you would sort of, you need turnout in the midterm. Like, is that a thing? Maybe we would have made that argument if Cornyn, we may make that argument if Cornyn wins the primary on Tuesday. So stay tuned. Tune in to next week's next week's Polar Coaster. That's not what we do here. I think that argument is hard to support. I mean, look, if you, all the polling shows that Tallarico does better against Paxton than Cornyn, but only by a point or two in some of this polling, which in Texas could be everything, of course, probably would be everything. He's not winning by more than a point or two, FYI. Right, right, right. But I thought that the delta between the two in the polling would be bigger than it has. It has been. Now there haven't been that many polls, but you know. And there's also, in these polls, there's, you know, like 10 to 12% undecided. And we have to look and see who makes up that undecided. But then if you are in Texas, I just, I think that it just is, it's like, let's not overcomplicate this. Ken Paxton is a man who is an absolute crook, a serial adulterer, a fucking lunatic. And he's terrible at raising money. His own staff called the FBI on him. That to me is my, that's my favorite thing. It's like, how many people have their own staff called the FBI on him? Yeah. And no one here, right? Nice. Checking. They're all the way to the left. But Paxton is such a perfect foil for Tallarico. This nice, thoughtful guy who can, talks about his religion, faithful, like, he just, they're the exact opposite of each other. And that is, that it really helps Tallarico in a way that is, it's not just Republican-Democrats, like a good person, a bad person. And that, that is going to help Tallarico. There's, we can, we can pretend like Cornyn because he sucks as a politician and isn't very good on the stump. And it's kind of a, there, he puts on a cowboy hat every year for an ad and he looks fucking ridiculous in it. It looks like it's basically photoshopped on his head. But Paxton, running against Paxton is way better for Tallarico than Cornyn. Yeah, I mean, I get, you make the argument that, that Cornyn basically is generic Republican in a, in a ballot. And Paxton is less, is, is, is more vulnerable than a generic Republican because he, again, is, is committed bribery and corruption and adultery. But think about how close Beto came to beating Ted Cruz. Yeah, this is what, Tommy and I talked about this on OnlyFriends, which I was like, there's, there's like three factors here, right? It's three questions for, does, does Tallarico win? Do you think the overall national environment is bluer than it was in 2018? Do you think Tallarico's a better candidate than Beto? And then do you think Paxton is a worse candidate than Ted Cruz? I think on all three measures, this is better for Tallarico than it was for Beto. And Beto came within three points. Yeah, I think that's probably right. Well, no, those last three points, that is a long fucking mile to cross in Texas. I also said that, that's where I came down. I'm like, and he could do better than Beto and still lose, like, just a little. But, you know, I think he's a, I think he's a special candidate. I, I have for a long time. I know you do too. And, like, I think you know, everyone should. If anyone can do it, it is James Tallarico. I agree. Right now, in this environment against Ken Paxton. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by the Obama Foundation. Democracy doesn't defend itself. It needs people willing to fight for it. That's why the Obama Foundation is committed to training the next generation of leaders, building communities, and strengthening our democracy. This summer, the Obama Presidential Center opens as a global hub for change, providing emerging leaders with the tools and resources they need to make a real difference in their communities, our country, and our world. But none of that happens without you. These leaders need support now, and your donation makes that possible years from now. When you look back on this moment in history, you'll want to say you stepped off the sidelines. So don't wait. Join the movement for change. Donate to the Obama Foundation at obama.org slash pod. All right, Dan. Some breaking news this morning on the 2024 DNC autopsy. Ken Martin finally agreed to release the full text of the report, which CNN published after the uproar that followed his interview with us a few weeks ago. This is from Martin's statement. Quote, I didn't want to create a distraction, but by not putting the report out, I ended up creating an even bigger distraction. For that, I sincerely apologize. He also said, quote, it does not meet my standards, and it won't meet your standards, but I am doing this because people need to be able to trust the Democratic Party and trust our word. Well, I agree with him there. The 192 page report is riddled with inaccuracies, at times incoherent, ultimately incomplete. The section headlined conclusion comes with an annotation that says this section was not provided by the author. Still all you need to know. There's also no mention of Biden's decision to run again, his age, Gaza, inflation. Um, Dan, do you have some you have some thoughts you'd like to share? I feel like I've said plenty on this. You you'll have more to say. I hope this is so fittingly stupid like it was like this is what we suspect all along, which is Ken Martin hired the wrong person to do the report. The wrong person did a terrible job instead of starting the report over or say that Ken Martin just started lying couldn't stop lying and just got himself into this incredible hole. And then let's he doesn't get points for transparency here because that CNN got some parts they were able to get from some sources parts of the report. And once the CNN had that, then the then the DNC made the decision, which was the right decision to release the rest of it. Like it's so it's it could not have been handled more poorly. Just every part of it. So I'm going to go through a couple things here. One, this is just a management disaster. This is supposed to be a huge priority for Ken Martin. He hired someone to work for free who no one in the Democratic Party would have picked for this role. There was no actual process set up. There's clearly no monitoring of the process or oversight or anyone working on or tracking what was happening because when he got he was shocked when he got the report. Well, why weren't you getting in or weren't there calls every week? Why wasn't someone on your staff in charge of doing this? Why wasn't there a committee of people? I can think of. I can think of dozens upon dozens of very, very qualified, very, very smart Democrats who would have volunteered to be part of this process to do it right. And I know this because there have been a bunch of other autopsies that have come out where they've gotten really, really smart people to do it and completed the work. Someone that we know reached out to me and said, we wrote a 700 page post mortem on the 2012 campaign, the Obama campaign, and it was done in January. The election was in November. And so like that just it's just an absolute management disaster. The second piece is the line like it's the biggest. The line is so crazy. And I go back to the interview with you, which is and we talk you talk about this when we did the interview. We talked about since I just want everyone to fully understand. We did not seek out Ken Martin for the purpose of talking to him about the autopsy. We had no interest in talking to Ken Martin about the autopsy. He complained to you about tweets sent by someone who's not you. Nope. Nope. Ben Rhodes tweet. Ben Rhodes tweet kicked it off. And then he came up to you at the grinder party. Yep. Sure did. And expressed his dismay. You can talk about how he expressed it. And so the response was that he would come on the podcast and discuss it. He like sought out the opportunity to do it to continue to push the lie. Because the argument that they were making, Ken Martin had two points in this. about the autopsy: it's done, it was helpful, has informed our playbook he said the word playbook 10 000 times that interview and we can't release it because it would be a distraction and divide the party before the election the last part is yes it's it would be a distraction but the main reason not to release it is embarrassing to ken martin or not to come come clean with why you didn't you you weren't releasing us because it'd be embarrassing to ken martin not because it'd be bad for the party yeah yeah it's um and it is if it was just the autopsy and this was like uh just one incident here um that would be one thing but the fact that it goes to trust issues and credibility and as ken says in his statement we need to be able to trust the democratic party and people need to be able to trust us again um it is indicative of a larger issue that he has had um since taking this role as chairman at the dnc and um look no further than the april fundraising reports that came out the same day today um that say once again the uh democratic national committee has negative three million dollars in the bank um when you account for the debts that they owe and the republican national committee has 124 million dollars in the bank and then when you look at um the fundraising of the rnc versus the dnc the rnc has raised many many many many many more times um the amount of money as the dnc but when you look at the fundraising between the d triple c and the republican congressional campaign committee um when you the two house committees uh you know the republicans have outraised democrats by a little but not as much as rnc versus dnc same thing with the senate committees so it's not a democratic party-wide problem fundraising problem it's a dnc problem and the d in one of the reasons why the dnc is not able to raise money and ken martin has disputed this but many many donors have said otherwise is the autopsy because the autopsy has bred just frustration the dnc didn't do it questions of trust about ken martin what are we giving our money for for not getting it and this is i mean burying the lead here but this is why i think ken martin should step down i think this is a bridge too far he cannot repair the trust here he's he's not everything we've seen here is he's not the right person for the job i'm sorry that seems like a harsh thing to say but it is clear like there's he has an impossible job even under i we have worked with many many dnc chairs even under the best circumstances the job sucks ass it is really really hard no one has ever seen a successful dnc chair people are hammered for it but thing is is that ken martin is now the distraction that he did not he was trying to avoid and because you're the distraction then you should go like he said it like he says in his post my job is winning elections well the best thing for the dns for the democrats to win elections is to have the right to vote now and in 2028 where the trusted issue matters so much more because the dnc is going to run the presidential primary they're going to pick they're going to set up the debates they're going to pick the calendar which is a huge thing they're going to make decisions about how delegates are allocated they're going to deal with states to try to jump the calendar all of this matters and when people don't trust the dnc as happened in 2016 when all the emails came out as part of the the russian hacks of dnc emails that showed that people at the dnc were not the dnc were favoring hillary over bernie people didn't trust the dnc they didn't trust the process they thought it was rigged and it hurt it hurt in the general election we need people to trust the process and i say that as a sixers fan but we need people to trust the process well and what he has opened up to now is any candidate uh who runs for president in 2028 who complains about unfairness the dnc whether those accusations are fair or not accurate or not like no one's going to believe ken martin because he has this credibility issue right and same thing with the excuses on the money right he he did a whole thing with me in the interview about like you know we're actually fine and we're investing in state parties and you need to spend and all this kind of stuff but like i don't know can i believe that now i don't know he he had this other lie for a long long time and tried to tried to hide it tried to cover up this report so um yeah i guess after it was released today there was a call um for dnc members a private call just for the all the all the dnc members and talked to some people who are on the call and um he basically just read the statement that he gave cnn uh essentially and apologized again and then also said that um that paul rivera who did who he um put in charge of this report uh is no longer helping out at the dnc because part of the cnn story said that even after he up the autopsy paul rivera was still walking around the dnc like demoralizing staffers just by his presence because they all knew that he had up so badly um so he said that paul rivera is no longer working and then um no questions on the call no questions for many of the dnc members after this um i also got something from someone at the dnc saying that a lot of the outlets are mistaken and saying that there's no pathway to removal for ken that it's actually just a simple majority vote of the dnc so that's interesting and there's at least one congressman uh representative mark veezy uh said that it's time for ken martin to go so i don't know i mean i tend to think do you think his job is safe um do you think he'll resign like it it seems it seems like a tall order but i don't know i mean i hope he would be willing to look at the reality situation and recognize that because of the mistakes that he made that the best thing for the party would be to step down i don't think he's going to do that we're in this mess because he was trying to protect himself not the party um so hard to say i mean you know is the are we really going to take the even if it's easy it's an extraordinary step to remove the dnc chairs anyone going to do that five months before the midterms i'd be surprised um and then you know i think if it does that it's a real question before the 2028 calendar is set as to whether we have to do something different here also the other problem is no one seems to want the job so you need someone else who would want the job you need someone else who you need the donors to say that if someone else takes the job then the money will start flowing again and they'll start donating right because you don't want the new you don't want a new chair to still be stuck at the same problem financially and it does you know people have been complaining this is a distraction distraction like it does at some point eat up a lot of time and energy you know as we're getting close to the midterms but the challenge is after the midterms happen if they are as expected and and things go well again you can just you can hear the dnc taking credit for it in advance and they will have nothing to do with the victory again if things don't go well it's still not the dnc's fault they just don't have that much to do with with midterm elections at all but as soon as the midterms are over we're into the presidential primary and people are going to start putting their campaigns together and you're going to need the calendars and all the stuff that you were just talking about and so i don't know it's just it's mess fucking mess that's so stupid and we're not digging into the actual autopsy because it's a joke like i was just gonna say like i'm not like it's not worth talking about anything in it because it's not endorsed by the dnc or anyone else it's just like paul rivera's ramblings that are the basis of him talking to just some people involved with the 2024 campaign who aren't even most of the senior people on the campaign yeah there's been a lot i would say to people who are interested in what happened there's been a lot of actual autopsies from outside groups way to win has one catalyst has their report uh we talked about rob flaherty's bulwark piece the other day um there's one from uh i think the strategic victory fund if i'm saying that correctly um has has one there's there's actually some pretty good pretty good pretty exhaustive work about what happened in 2024 that's what that people want they should go look at but looking at this version is not worth doing because you could look for it you could try i would say read the executive summary but that was also not provided so right right all right well you think you'll come back on the pod maybe maybe maybe you guys will meet up again at next year's grander party fingers crossed maybe there'll be alcohol this time all right speaking of democrats being unhappy with democrats the new york times released new results from their latest poll that we talked about on tuesday uh this installment is focused on democrats and independents who uh say they're planning to support democratic candidates in the fall uh overall more than half of these voters disapprove of the democratic party more than half also said the party should move to the center rather than move to the left in order to win the 2028 presidential election but when asked that question about specific issues uh the results the results were more varied on economic issues 36 said move to the left pretty competitive with the 42 who said move to the center and on health care 45 of democratic voters want to move to the left compared to just 27 who said move to the center um and 26 who said don't move in either direction health care was the issue where the biggest percentage of voters thought the democratic party should move to the left um and then i would say economy was next and then when you get to issues like uh crime i think was the top issue where the most the highest percentage of democrats said that the party should move to the right or at least move to the center sorry um and uh and then immigration and actually you know we can talk about this too but uh trans issues was not as there weren't as many people um and this would go against sort of the prevailing narrative but there weren't as many democrats who wanted the party to move to the center on uh trans issues as there were on crime and immigration is still the top two um so what did you make of um uh this novel line of questioning in the poll which they did ask voters like how do you personally feel about the direction party on these issues and what direction do you think the party should move in and then they asked which direction you think the party should move to win so they did both but the the move to win basically asking voters to be pundits is a is a new one yeah i generally hate that idea like it's always just it's just i'm much rather more much more interested in what voters actually think because you would like to believe that that's what informs voting behavior but i will say that this is a very interesting finding one it just proves that among democrats the narrative that democrats lost because we were too far to the left too woke too liberal has taken hold among democrats that the you know plurality of democrats believe that at least on a core set of issues it's a very interesting finding and i think it's a very interesting finding and i think it's a very it's just it's like that's an interesting data point that that has you know there was this battle after the election did we were we too moderate or too left and at least for the people responding this poll it was clearly the problem was we were too left not a lot left enough and the other reason why i think this is somewhat informative is electability is become the preeminent issue in democratic politics you know it it was a huge issue in the texas senate primary it was a huge issue in the main senate primary before janet mills dropped out it was it's a giant issue in the iowa primary that happened a couple weeks and it's it's a big issue in the michigan senate primary that is uh in august and so it's interesting to know what voters think makes someone electable or or in this case may make them think someone is less electable um you know looking at the numbers it is um you did you dive into the crosstabs if the crosstabs are not that they're not that surprising um i i i figured you did but i did too yeah it's just there i was ready to nerd out about some crosstabs if people some real nuggets but it's sort of it's what you is the the findings are kind of across the board what would be interesting would be if there was one group who really thought they should move to the left but really just kind of across the board people or not move to the right or whatever it is but that everyone kind of all feels the same way just in varying degrees uh the call the college split on these issues is notable to me yeah that non-college voters um uh tend to want the party to move towards the center and college voters want the party to move to the left and then it splits on racial and education lines in a very interesting way which is non-college black voters and non-college latino voters along with non-college white voters very much want the party to move to the center and really the only demographic group that um most wants the party to move to the left is white college grads also some um black and hispanic college grads but it's just a larger chunk of the electorate is is white and more with younger people like it's cute it all skews younger and all these yeah and particularly on issues again against the prevailing narrative on issues of immigration and crime yeah you see that they wait you see that you see black and latino non-college democratic voters say they want the party to move to the center oh yes yes i mean that is the i guess i thought we felt like we were past that prevailing narrative um or that even that narrative is kind of but i guess i guess it depends on where you're getting your news these days right yeah just just wait till we get to the next primary yeah i mean and it's like obviously electability is going to hang over uh the 2028 primary in a massive way um and so this this will inform that i think the health care one is very interesting on economic issues it's only a six point spread um which i think is also notable and then what i found also interesting is that there is um they asked people if they asked democrats if they thought the economic system in the country was generally unfair to most americans 88 yes only 11 said fair to most americans and whether the political and economic system needs to be changed and made uh 80s so 63 said major changes 20 said torn down completely and 15 said minor or minor changes and one percent said no changes who that person is which democrat thinks that has no changes i'd be interested in but i think there is a paradox here which is you have people saying we think the party should move right on certain issues but there is an appetite in it for big bold ideas on the economy and health care and like people want real change and so nibbling around the edges is not going to be sufficient both in the democratic primary and the general people want to see that you understand the scale of the problems affecting their lives the ways in which the system is broken and corrupt and you have big ideas so the sort of you know not to pick on kamala harris's economic team but like this is what not to do is we're going to offer um tax credits credits for home for first-time home buyers it's a good policy theoretically but it just seems small compared to what people actually want building more houses would be a better policy well that that would be a better that would be a better policy you you can do both yeah you can do both um but yeah i mean there was a line in here in the in the write-up of the piece of the poll which was uh and when presented with two opposing economic visions more than two-thirds of democratic supporters now we're 65 66 said they favored a candidate who would go after corporate monopolies and price gouging while just 30 preferred a candidate who promised to lower prices by easing housing regulations and expanding energy production now um you know some of this is in wording but that doesn't that doesn't sound very exciting to ease housing regulations and expand energy production but just to give people a baseline because i thought this was interesting so they asked like where do you how do you think about the party is it too far left is it too far right or is it not too far either way 55 said not too far either way uh 20 said two left 17 said two right so right there you're a candidate trying to win the party's nomination you got like a little more than half of the electorate that you're trying to get who thinks the party is ideologically good where it is right now and then you've got almost similar percentage of people who think the party is good and then you've got almost similar percentages on either side so that is a tough thing to navigate i also thought the the delta between when they asked people what would you personally like where would you personally like to see the party move and to win where would you like to see the party move was actually not that different so 28 said they personally like to see the party move to the left and 25 said that to win the party should move to the left um and then 47 said they personally want it to move to the center and 52 said to win um they want to move the center so you do have a percentage of people who are saying oh personally i want the party to be more left but to win it should move to the center but yeah not not a ton it's the delta wasn't as big as i thought it would be i well it's i mean for the reasons we've talked about for many years which is the median democrat is a um is a voter that didn't go to college and is more moderate than uh most people listen to this podcast and we are personally and that that's the party that nominated joe biden in 20 in 2020 and that that remain that remains true i think these questions are a little confusing in how they're ordered like but it is it's just notable that's 55 are generally okay with the direction the party is now how many of those 55 can name what the direction of the party actually is right now well i was gonna i was just gonna say the other thing that stands out in some of the questions that they asked is and we always talk about this but it's a good reminder for everyone is how like those of you listening to this podcast um you are so different than like 70 of the rest of the electorate in that you pay closer attention to politics and know more about what's going on in politics day to day than most of the people who will show up and vote in elections so they ask um uh about schumer and schumer's approval rating in this poll among just democrats and and independents that they're going to vote democrat is 26 in favor 31 uh opposed and you're like well that's kind of low 35 never heard of chuck schumer uh joe rogan uh 11 approved 48 disapproved the rest never heard of joe rogan nick fuentes what is it nine percent approved i didn't even see fuentes in there yeah this is in the uh crosstabs they asked i guess just for fun uh have you heard maybe ezra got this question and uh have you heard of the abundance movement 91 of people in that they pulled uh all of whom again all these people said they're gonna vote in the midterms 91 never heard of the abundance movement um so it's just it's it's a good a good reminder um that people who are even in democratic even in midterms right which is a more engaged electorate even midterm voters are just not paying as much attention to all the that we talk about every week these are registered voters right yeah but registered voters who said they're gonna vote in the midterm um the israel numbers crazy only 20 favor more aid to israel 74 do not 15 sympathize with israel over the palestinians and 60 uh palestinians over israelis the highest group of for israel of any demographic is 65 plus unsurprising there even that group 65 plus only 27 so that they uh have more sympathy for israel and the palestinians that is just a just a massive shift on that issue you can thank joe biden donald trump and bb netanyahu for that yeah that is true and then um and then 49 percent um favor socialism 22 percent no socialism and then the rest had no opinion every age group of democrats has a favorable opinion they'll so they don't they don't support socialism they have a favorable opinion of it that's which i think thank you which is that is important yeah that may be a distinction without a difference in the ads that will be run but i think it does matter on what people say but yeah even voters over 65 if i remember correctly uh democrats over 65 by a more narrow margin have a favorable view of socialism oh last one i wanted to ask you about um 49 percent of voters said it was important to choose leaders with a fresh approach 48 percent want to choose leaders with proven experience it's a real and guess guess which guess what young people wanted experience yeah by like a lot more than other people age groups it was a sort of i think that this one is um i think this is a confusing question and i don't think it says exactly what you think it says um i think the backdrop for this is our reality tv show president who has no real experience in his fucking up left and right every single day and so i think the better the the question that will be more interesting as we think about the 2028 democratic primaries inside do you want someone who is a part of the establishment or against the establishment i think that's a because everyone is everyone who's running is going to have some answer on experience it's just what experience means like we saw this in 2008 like everyone can define experience the way they do and then you either sell it or you don't because if you don't no one wants someone with insufficient experience that is true that is true um while we're on this topic there's a bit of a mess brewing in the democratic primary in texas's redrawn 35th district where sheriff's deputy johnny garcia is now in a runoff with a sex therapist named maureen galindo who has posted wildly anti-semitic comments online including calling judaism the synagogue of satan and promising to turn an ice detention center into quote a prison for american zionists and former ice officers adding quote it will also be a castration processing center for pedophiles which will probably be most of the zionists disgusting a mysterious super pack called lead left which was formed earlier this month and whose website initially linked to the republican platform win red has now spent about six hundred thousand dollars to boost galindo uh demo line super packs have now just about matched that spending to defeat galindo and everyone from james talarico to hakeem jeffries to aoc has condemned her um what do you make of this uh it's it's a mess it's an absolute mess i mean good for everyone for speaking up and trying to defeat this person the republicans are pretty devious in what they're doing they're going to do this and multiple places around the country they've already tried to do it in a couple states including pennsylvania i mean we have we have been involved in democratic groups have been involved in primaries before so this is not beyond the bound beyond the bounds of what's acceptable or what's appropriate but add us to the list of people condemning her and hoping she does not win yeah and if you are in that district if you're a voter in that district if you know voters in that district like tell them to go vote for johnny garcia she got more votes in the primary i know i know that's what that's what we're all worried about this is on this is on tuesday she got so this is the runoff and she got more votes than him the first time around and so you know i think i i i can't even begin uh the most generous explanation is that people who voted for her did not know about all the comments and all the positions i hope um and that maybe and that she obviously had a lot of money and spending behind her so her name id was better than johnny garcia so he needs better name id maybe this controversy getting kicked up will help sort of focus people and people in that 35th district will will hear about this and be like oh that's crazy we've got to vote for johnny garcia but anyway we should um everyone should get the word out because um this isn't just someone who's like crazy lefty this is like uh fucking concentration camps for zionists are you fucking kidding me like it's awful and republicans of course are so fucking cynical and having a field day with this and being like oh democrats democrats are the ones voting for the anti-semites and the and the people who want to put uh jews in camps not republicans and meanwhile of course not saying anything about the fact that there's this like mysterious super pack linked to the republican group win red that is spending to uh on this race which is just crazy so johnny garcia go check it out um all right one last topic today there are two very notable weddings taking place this memorial day weekend uh as we've said one is our own john lovett and ari schwartz which we're all very excited to attend the other is donald trump jr and palm beach socialite bettina anderson which donald trump jr is maybe skipping uh let's listen to what he said in the oval he'd like me to go but it's going to be just a small little private affair and i'm going to try and make it i'm i'm in the midst i said you know this is not good timing for me i have a thing called iran and other things uh that's one i can't win on if i do attend i get killed if i don't attend i get killed what you've done forever i saw this this morning i am it is four o'clock in the afternoon i am still stunned by this i mean we have joked for many many years about how donald trump does not love his children and they act this way because he does not love them and he can barely identify them and really did no parenting this kind of proves the point yeah just generational trauma just inaction we're just we're just watching it unfold right in that clip it's just also you know what i gotta be honest with you donald trump's famous for um skipping festivities and any kind of leisure activity because he likes to be focused on the nation's business he's well known for that no one would kill him for going to his son's wedding no like that's one free like he does a lot of dumb shit he's going to us he's playing golf this would free pass for this one it's in the bahamas i guess where he can't like air force one can go go to the bahamas he can go anywhere yeah and go anywhere they could bring a fucking that at mar-a-lago because he wanted to charge his son that is i i can't even imagine i can't imagine so my dad was the president i hope he doesn't get married and also not like he also wasn't even it would have even been different if he was like oh i'm so like i can't make it you know like he was definitive and he had the excuse but he did the worst of all worlds which is just be like i'm gonna try to make it but i don't know i don't know it's not good also it's about me it's i told him it's not he had not good timing for me yeah not good timing for me it's really it's your fault i'm not coming to your wedding son good stuff anyway anyway congrats to john jr congrats to john jr we'll uh and john and john love it yes just cut from the same cloth when we come back california gubernatorial candidate matt mayan positive america is brought to you by a neutrophil real change comes with the small healthy habits you do every day that 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the other um options for this sort of thing or one day you'd just be totally bald and the next day the commercial has a guy like jet skiing with a full head of hair and a sick mullet there's that or there's just uh you're you're standing outside at a press conference and it's a little warm and suddenly you got the you got the new hair dripping down your face his head just melted ah good old days i know let your hair become one less thing taking up space in your head and see thicker stronger faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with neutrophil for a limited time neutrophil is offering our listeners ten dollars off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you visit neutrophil.com enter the promo code crooked that's neutrophil.com spelled n-u-t-r-a-f-o-l.com promo code crooked right now the midterms are the biggest story in american politics but however they go the democratic party is going to have to do some serious soul searching join us washington dc november 5th through 7th the second annual crooked con it's going to be the positive america hosts and some of the smartest people in politics we're going to try to answer some big questions stuff like if we won how did we win if we lost how could we possibly have lost and with 2028 around the corner we're going to be talking about where do we go from here if you believe in democracy community and fighting for the future now's the time to grab your tickets to crooked con at 2026 head to crookedcon.com to get your tickets now my guest today is the mayor of san jose he's running to be the next governor of great state of california that man great to see you thanks for having me good thank you thank you for coming into the the crooked media grand offices what do you think it's beautiful yeah i love the art yeah i'm really digging for compliments today uh all right let's cut to the chase so we've got a motley crowd to feel the king in this race. Election day is fast approaching. People are already voting. I got my ballot at the House. I'm an undecided voter. I want to talk to you about it in a bit. Why are you the best candidate to lead this state? Well, thanks for having me on. I think I'm the best candidate to lead the state because I'm the only Democrat in the race who has a track record of challenging the establishment within my own party to make our government deliver for people. And at a time when we've got an authoritarian president who is trying to take the country in a very dangerous direction, we need Democrats who can govern and make people's lives better. The way we win in the long run is proving that we can implement policies that make people's neighborhoods safer and cleaner, their schools better, make housing more affordable. If we're delivering bad outcomes and people are dissatisfied with our leadership, it becomes very hard to fight for democracy and get people to care about climate change and many of the kind of longer term goals that we have. So I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but just, you know, we're in LA. We have this mayoral race happening that's kind of goofy. I'm sure you've seen. We've got Karen Bastien coming to the Democrat. She's got a challenge from the left from Nithya Raman. And then a challenge from the right from like a washed up reality TV participant. I don't even want to call him a star. Spencer Pratt, who lost his home in the Palisades fire. And I think has channeled very understandable anger about the response into a surprisingly effective campaign. And he's like tapped into this rage at the government, rage at the system that I think was bubbling below the surface for a lot of people. And like, not just, you know, people who are feeling like the economic pinch, like a lot of rich, powerful people in this city are like pro Pratt now. Are you hearing that anger on the campaign trail? And if so, how do Democrats address it and speak to it? Like when we're in charge of everything here and have been for a while. I am hearing that frustration and in some cases, outright anger. And that's, you know, anger. And that's exactly what I'm talking about. When I ran for mayor of San Jose, which is the third largest city in the state, I was hearing deep frustration with the most basic things. There's, there's crime in my neighborhood, sprawling tent encampments, our schools are failing. I can't afford the rent. I mean, the stuff that really keeps people up at night and affects them in their daily lives. And I realized very quickly when I was out knocking on doors and talking to people that we have to own those shortcomings and offer people change that is pragmatic and responsible. We, I believe we are almost continuously in a change election mode because government today is failing to get the basics right. In San Jose, I focused on things that are very simple, but have an outsized impact, speeding up permitting, creating a neighborhood quality of life unit within our police department, building basic dignified interim housing. And when it's available, requiring people, common doors, partnering with our county to get more people into drug treatment, by focusing on very basic issues that people see and feel every single day that you sadly see go viral on next door and everywhere else. We've increased trust in city hall by 40% in my time as mayor. And I think that's the playbook. It'll look different in different cities and different states. But again, I go back to this core premise that we have to be outcome focused. We have to look at the outcomes that matter most to voters. And they're pretty clear. They're, they're telling us it's how it's cost of living. It's quality of schools. It's public safety issues. It's, it's very basic issues. Now it's the cost of gas. And yeah, we could spend all of our time arguing how much of the cost of gas is the, is, is Trump's war, uh, versus a lot of it. Yeah. The last what dollar and a half, $2, something like that is, is thanks to Donald Trump. But the $1.50 before that is largely our own policy decisions. And we need to be honest about that. I've argued that the gas tax in California has become the most regressive tax that affects people living in the kinds of communities I grew up in. I grew up in a small farming town on the central coast, people who can't afford an EV Californians who are driving farther because they live in rural communities or out in the suburbs and they're commuting every day. And we should keep it, but we should right-size it. In fact, I would convert it into a flat fee that makes sure EV owners are paying their fair share. That would be fair. You'd provide some relief to people and you'd show that the Democrats are paying their fair share. And you'd show that the Democrats are still fighting for working people and trying to make a real impact in their daily lives. Um, let me be annoying and ask a process question and we'll get geek out a little bit. So you got into the race pretty late. It was a crowded field. Um, but now you've been running for a couple of months and there was a poll out earlier this week that had you at 4% of the vote. How do you turn things around? If that poll is accurate between now and election day, when it's what month out less, less, I mean, look, there's a lot of fluidity in the polls. We've 10%. I mean, look, it, when it's a low turnout race and voters are holding onto their ballots, it means there's a lot of uncertainty and therefore variability in terms of what can happen. I believe people are listening. They're not thrilled with the choices that they perceive to be the front runners today because they have some very legitimate concerns about Tom Steyer and Javier Becerra and certainly Steve Hilton. And I'm offering an alternative that is resonant with those who have heard it. What we see in our data is when people have seen our ads and heard our message, we go above 20% and we're in the top two. So my focus is on communicating directly with voters through every possible channel, including thank you very much. You know, this opportunity today, I want to talk to people about what we've done to get housing under construction, to make San Jose the safest big city in the country, to reduce homelessness faster than any other city in the state of California. And offer a different view of how we make Sacramento work for them. I mean, we have to own as Democrats the fact in the last six years, we have increased spending in Sacramento by 75%. That's $150 billion per year more than we had six years ago. And none of the outcomes that people care most about have gotten better. That is a systemic breakdown. And that's why I'm trying to offer very concrete solutions. Fund Prop 36, expand treatment capacity, do high dosage tutoring when children are falling behind to make sure every child's on grade level for reading by the end of third grade. These are things that work that we have not done largely because of special interest capture in Sacramento. We don't build condos in the state of California anymore because the trial lawyers like the fees they collect from using construction defect laws to sue builders of condos. So the city of Miami builds more condos every year than the entire state of California. Why does that matter? That's the most acceptable way to build condos. It's an accessible form of homeownership for young people. And we wonder why people are getting priced out of our state. So I'm running against the special interest capture in Sacramento and the status quo. I've done that as the mayor of a large city and it's worked. We've delivered meaningful outcomes. I want to ask you more about homeownership and young people in the state. Just one more sort of process thing, which is like, look, I'm literally an undecided voter in this race in part because as you know, we have this stupid fucking jungle primary system here where there's a runoff, there's a first round on June 12th, the top two candidates go to the runoff. So that leads to strategic voting, right? There was all this anxiety about Democrats splitting the vote to Republicans ascending and right. And then we have a de facto Republican governor that probably won't happen now because the Chad seems to touch cuckoo. And Trump has chosen the British short King is his guy in California. What's going on there? I guess the Fox. But then, but then there's people like me who are just like overthinking it. Right. Cause I have candidates that appeal to my heart and I worry though that if they can't win then maybe I'm doing a harm reduction vote because I have candidates that I think are bad and I want to vote for someone to displace them. Um, why do we have this dumb system? I hate it. Well, I hope I'm speaking to your heart. We'll find out. We got 15 more minutes. Yeah. You can let me know at the end. Look, I don't think people should overthink it. It is almost statistically impossible for two Republicans to get through. There are not that many Republican votes in the state of California. Donald Trump is not on the ballot, which means turnout will be lower than it would otherwise be. Bianco is hanging in there with his third of the Republican party, but not any more than that. And I just, I think it's more likely we'll have two Democrats than we will have two Republicans by far. It's just not going to happen. So I think people should vote for the Democrat who they believe will do the best job. And I get rid of this process at some point though. Uh, the voters can't. Let's do it. They can. It's annoying. No one likes this. Who is this for? Well, the theory, I do want to try to articulate it because look, there are trade-offs. Partisan primaries also tend to drive candidates to the extreme. Agreed. And so I don't know that there's a, I've heard another interesting alternative, which is, um, I know this is going to sound crazy, but I was intrigued when someone pitched me on this the other day, having the top three or four candidates advance. And then in the final, the second round do rank choice voting. I would do rank choice for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that solves the problem. If you, if you winnow the field from 62, which is literally what we have on our ballot today, which isn't someone named Barack Obama, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. Good move on his. Well played, sir. Yeah. If you narrow it to say the top four, then you're almost certain to have ideological and partisan variety. And then because it would then theoretically, if you did rank choice, you would then optimize for whoever's kind of the best overall choice. So I'd be interested in something like that. I worry if you go back to a partisan primary, you get the most extreme Republican, the most extreme Democrat, it's already, it's all decided in the primary. And that's by the way, looking at the other side, that's how you ended up with a Ted Cruz in, in Texas. He got 5% of the vote, but because it was enough to make him the top candidate in a hyper-partisan Republican primary in a red state, he became the de facto senator for years to come. Well, he is a very appealing human being, so I can see that magnetism drew that 5% in. You have come out against this proposed one-time billionaire's tax, a 5% wealth tax on billionaires in California. This could be on the ballot this fall. Why? What's your opposition to this plan? Yeah, so it's not because I don't think billionaires shouldn't be paying more. I mean, look, I think there are a lot of loopholes in the tax code we should close. I'll give you one example. Today, very wealthy people can borrow against their stock options or other assets that they have not yet paid capital gains on and then deploy, use those dollars as a way of funding their lifestyles. Their investments and then never having to pay capital gains. That's a loophole. We should close that. Actually, I'll give you one more. Elon Musk, if he were to die today, would pass his stock onto his heirs, 500 billion or whatever it is, and it would automatically get repriced at market rate, meaning they, even if they turned around and sold it the next day, would never pay capital gains on it. Fundamentally unfair. So there are a whole bunch of things in the tax code I would fix. I also think with automation, capital gains will probably. I also think with automation, capital gains will probably need to go up so that we can lower income tax on those who are working for a living. Yeah. But when it comes to this wealth tax, the concern I have is it's going to punish the middle class in California. We've seen about a trillion dollars of capital flight from the state already. And this is right in line with what we've seen in every other place that's tried a wealth tax. A trillion dollars in wealth asset value, right? Not taxation. Correct. A trillion dollars worth of wealth, of assets that people hold that no longer reside within the state of California because their owner now has a primary residence in another state. Like Reno or something. Yeah. Nevada, Florida, Texas, whatever. And that's what we've seen. So there are 14 European countries that have tried wealth taxes at the national level, not even the provincial or state level. And what they have generally rolled them back or had to. Significantly modify them for a couple of reasons. One, they have seen the overall tax base shrink as they've had capital flight. People with very high net worths moving their assets and their primary residence out of the country or out of the state. The other is to assess people's wealth is not a trivial thing. You actually need to have an army of assessors go out and go through people's belongings and figure out what are all these things worth and value them and then tax them. And there's a lot of distortionary effects. I just think it's likely to. It's likely to backfire. It's likely to be very costly. And ultimately, I think it's the middle class that's going to be left holding the bag. Because there will just be less revenue, you think. Yeah. And that's not just me. The legislative analyst office, the independent policy shop in Sacramento says that we've probably already taken $10 billion a year off of our future revenues based on the capital that's already left the state. Right. But if we could recoup that with this one-time tax, I mean, there's estimates that it could bring in up to $100 billion. I mean, it's hard to pencil out the math, right? Because we just don't know how many people will leave. We're talking about like 200 people, right? Like 200 billionaires in California. If they all left the state, do they all really have that much income that gets taxed? Like Jeff Bezos famously pays himself 80 grand or something and has since 1998. But all of his wealth is in often unrealized gains in Amazon stock, right? Which is not getting taxed no matter what happens. It's like, how do we get at that money? Well, that's why I point to those other two reforms that I think make a lot more sense. One is if he's borrowing against those unrealized gains, there should be a cutoff at which point it's considered realized and you can't just endlessly borrow against your unrealized assets. I think that's a way smarter way to do it that's less distortionary. And I mean, really, ideally, that would be a federal policy. Yeah. That's because it's a family business or a farm. That's fine. But don't rebase the value of it at market rate at the moment the person dies. Leave the original cost basis so that when your heirs sell, they pay capital gains. That seems only fair. Yes. And there's so many carve outs for farms and it's like tens of millions of dollars is already exempted from the wealth tax. It's insane that we are not focusing more on that. So you're the mayor of a city at the heart of the American tech industry. In a past life, you worked in the tech industry. Americans, I think, increasingly have a negative view of a lot of tech companies, right? I mean, as recently as 2015, Pew found that 71% of Americans thought technology companies had a positive effect on the country. By 2019, that was down to 50%. Now you're seeing like AI explode onto the scene. People are worried about the data centers. There's polling that finds an increasing number of Americans are more concerned than excited about AI. You've got people getting booed for mentioning AI at college commencements. What would you say to voters who are furious at Silicon Valley because certain tech CEOs got fabulously wealthy while they did not. The news media got hollowed out. They feel like harms were done by social media. And now it just feels like the same companies, the same people, they're getting to run it back with AI, which we're all told is this unbelievably powerful step change new thing. And I don't trust those people. I don't trust Elon. Or Mark Zuckerberg or Sam Altman to be in charge of it. I don't trust Elon. I don't trust Elon. I don't trust Elon. I don't trust Elon. Elon is good. And let's just have this sort of unbridled capitalism and see what happens. I reject that. Yeah, the David Sachs approach. We're laissez-faire until Silicon Valley Bank is going to collapse. And then we're screaming for corporate welfare. Yeah, exactly. So I reject that mindset and approach. I also think, though, that there is a more extreme version within my party that wants to just hit the brakes. And I think, I just believe we are better served. And I think historically we have been better served by regulating the economy. What's your AI drug of choice? You a grok guy, Claude? chat gpt what are we using i go between clod and chat and um yeah chat gpt mostly although i end up by default and on gemini a lot just because of the browser yeah but then it's always wrong you know you're just getting bullshit and then you go then you have to go yeah i'm a clod guy these days yeah i was using chat gpt and then sam allman did something shitty when he swooped in was like i'll take your pentagon contract to build the autonomous killer robots i was like i'm out then you went to clod see you buddy yeah who's just i don't know secretly building the autonomous killer robots who knows um so you raised a bunch of money from folks in the tech world uh ceos at google dropbox snapchat twitch i think some prominent venture capitalists what's your response to people who worry look when you take all that money there are strings um and it could make you beholden to the tech industry yeah i mean look it's a very fair question and my response is one i've regulated tech and as an elected official over the last six years i have never done one thing to benefit the biggest employers in silicon valley in silicon valley over the people of san jose and i sure as heck i'm not going to do that in sacramento i'm actually running against special interest capture in sacramento and i'm not going to replace one set of interests with another i have been very willing and have have consistently put restrictions on how we use technology how we interface with tech companies i think the the honest reason that there are tech employees tech leaders investors etc who have contributed to the campaign is that they're not going to be able to do that because they're not going to be able to do that because they're not going to be able to do that because they're not going to be able to do i lead the largest city in silicon valley and they've seen that we have led the state in reducing crime reducing homelessness building housing fixing our problems and i think people are drawn to results and competent leadership and i'm just better known in the bay area where we have a number of tech companies but that's why i'm spending so much time traveling around the state getting to know people in other places and really making the case for good government but um i put out a very clear ai accountability plan that is based on everything i've done in san jose over the last six years and is where i am on these issues and i put that out transparently for everyone from voters to my donors to see it and if donors don't like it they can find another candidate one donor name that surprised me was a guy named joe lonsdale he's a co-founder of palantir big republican mega donor he's like a big elon stan give a million to elon's like pro trump super pack maxed out to you what's up with you with that guy he seems a little crazy i don't know you'd have to ask him i mean i have i have probably thousands of donors he's not like someone you knew back in the day when he was a palantir or something no i know he's from he's from the bay area and i i yeah i don't know i'd look he's just an aggressive tweeter i've we've come we've crossed paths that's why you guys have been tweeting at each other you know look we all have our weaknesses and that's one of mine um it does feel like though like the there was a time look i i was in the obama administration and like the routine phase of like the there was a lot of excitement around tech there was a lot of cooperation between the administration and tech industry probably too much to our you know discredit in the obama world um now it seems like a lot of the tech industry guys are like gloves are off fuck this we're battling regulation right like indreason horowitz according to new york times has made more than 150 million 115 million dollars worth of disclosed federal contributions to candidates or entities on the upcoming midterms that's like 50 mil for like a ai pack another 47 million for crypto super pack like does that worry you does that disgust you that like this one vc firm can dump 100 million to advocate for like it's you know book of portfolio companies yeah absolutely i mean i'm i'm worried about concentrated power in politics in in all forms the the biggest uh donors and and tech now is is becoming one of the the largest um industries or donor bases in the country of any industry you've had oil and gas in the state of california it is worth noting there are other groups as well from public sector unions to trial lawyers who spend a tremendous amount of money sometimes for things i agree with that i think are generally good for society sometimes for narrower interests that are that are not always good for society i actually got involved in the way i ended up in tech was building tools for grassroots organizing and i think that's one of the things that i've been recognizing the early petitions like the change.org tools early fundraisers go fund me these kinds of early tools um to try to basically help people organize at a grassroots level and make the system more accountable to the people than to the donors i've always been worried about the influence of concentrated money and power in our politics so it does worry me i do think though that the democratic party has to also recognize there's a split within the party yeah right now and we have also driven away many people who are uh have started companies or and i'm just talking about in tech i mean generally speaking as i go around the state just set tech aside when i go talk to people in agriculture in hollywood in manufacturing in in a wide range of industries the regulatory burden in california is a real issue and i think we we become very dismissive of it as oh deregulation is a republican thing that's just because they want more profit i don't think that's the case i mean we broke the housing market by overregulating it in california that's i mean making building more housing creating room for new people for future generations making housing more affordable is actually a very progressive aim i totally agree but i feel like we're just so far from overregulating like social media companies i mean australia is banning accounts for kids under 16 right and i think that's a very progressive aim i mean we're just we're doing nothing right and that's part of my proposal is actually to to require at least parental consent up to up to 16 um so yeah i think that's i think that's fair but i but i do think we we risk losing natural allies of the party if our answer to every problem is another regulation another tax and i i think look within tech maybe it's appropriate the regulatory environment is not very mature at this point but there are plenty of other industries like housing agriculture where you could argue we're punishing we're we're actually restricting economic opportunity and pushing people out of state um you've uh criticized governor gavin newsom for like kind of focusing too much on trolling donald trump i think you said he made a quote blind leap into meme land um gavin and trump have kind of a ross and rachel will they won't they frenemies you know antagonistic thing going it's probably unique to them right they're they're big larger than life people but trump and the conservative media they love to beat up on california right fox news all day is like some video of something that happened on the street um so i don't think the trump attacks end when gavin is gone how would you manage that relationship differently than him or or continuity whatever i mean the way i think about it is there's a set of things that are just red lines for me and for the state of california we're going to fight to protect our vulnerable neighbors we're going to push back on ice we're going to fight to protect constitutional freedoms we're going to fight for our fair share of federal funding there are a number of areas where unfortunately we are going to have to fight fire with fire as governor newsom has said and in san jose we i've led us to sue the trump administration multiple times we've used our budget to backfill cuts we've we're funding legal services for immigrant neighbors who are at risk of deportation we've banned ice's use of masks and their use of public property uh so i i will use every tool in the toolbox legal budgetary bully pulpit whatever tools we have to fight back i i do though want to go back to the the place i started which is i also think that we've got to take ownership of our shortcomings and start solving highly visible and visceral problems that affect people every day i mean i this may sound superficial but when people drive around los angeles and see the state of the freeways and see thousands of people living outside in misery and tents and trash and fires and graffiti it just undermines our credibility it undermines trust in government it makes it that much harder to stand for something different that people can believe in and i'm not pretending that the republicans have got it all right they've got plenty of problems and red states have plenty of problems we we do a better job in many ways of being economically inclusive and certainly more welcoming socially and politically but i just i think we've got to do something about it i think we've got to do something about it i think we've got to also fix our fundamental problems starting with the high cost of housing and until we grapple with that i don't think we're going to be a very effective resistance yeah my last question for you is about housing which is in california we have something called prop 13 i'm sure you know about it listeners naturally don't it was passed in the late 70s younger californians mostly hate it because it means that new homebuyers pay much higher property taxes on like the identical house to someone who bought it 40 years earlier you can correct me if i'm getting the details i'm shorthanding this it creates this general unfairness and i think it's a big problem and i think we've got to fix it um and it can lock up housing supply because if you're a senior you're not going to downsize if that means you're going to pay a much higher property tax right you want to lock in that privileged tax rate um over time prop 13 has gutted revenue for california's public schools and like smart kind of wonky people i know almost literally will blame it for like all of california's problems right there are a number of books to that yes and so like sadly it feels politically impossible to repeal the thing because uh high propensity to vote seniors like it because it keeps their property taxes low. So like, what do we do? here. How do we bring some fairness to property tax collection and unfreeze the housing market with this anchor around our neck? Yeah. How many hours do you have? I mean, look, I think one is just across the board, our housing issues come down to a lack of supply. So we need to build more housing and that will slow down the rate at which the value of housing goes up, which will help moderate property tax increases. The reason Prop 13 was passed was property tax increases were happening so fast that people were literally getting pushed out of their homes because they couldn't keep pace with the rising costs. So it doesn't freeze it, but it caps it at a one and a half percent increase per year, which you could argue is too low. Maybe to properly have a more functioning market, it should be higher, right? That's a debate you could have. I think there are some pragmatic things that could be politically feasible. One is we should enable older residents to take their property tax benefit with them, if they downsize, so that we can free up that housing stock. So if you're an older couple, or you're living alone, and you've got four bedrooms in a suburban neighborhood somewhere, if we could incentivize you to capture that benefit and continue to have low property taxes by moving into a condo by the beach, great. We should allow for that flexibility and fluidity in the market. Another thing that could be done is you could say, well, having property taxes go up more than one and a half percent per year, which is a lot of money. So we should allow for that flexibility and fluidity in the market. Another thing that could be done is you could price people out. But what if some of that actually accrued over time and then was assessed at the time that you sold the home? And so that way, you're not getting hit each year with a larger and larger property tax bill that you can't afford when you're raising kids or whatever else you're doing. But when you eventually sell the house, presumably the house is appreciated, that's why your property taxes are going up, that thing gets paid back in. But I would also just note, I think Prop 13 reform is about fairness and distortions in the market. I think it's a mistake for Democrats to make it a big revenue generator, because the truth is, while it did reduce revenues to the state and to school districts, after it passed, we went and found a bunch of other sources of revenue. We created an income tax. We tax capital gains. We tax businesses. We tax everything. So our overall tax burden is the second highest or third high, depending on how you measure it, third highest in the country. I've noticed, yeah. Yeah. So you're experiencing it. We found other ways to tax. You're right. We could talk about this forever. But you got a lot of things to do. Where can people find your campaign if they want to get involved, support you, knock doors, donate, whatever? Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. I appreciate all the great questions. And my website is Mahan, M-A-H-A-N, for california.com. You can find me on social media. If you have any follow-up questions to this interview, shoot me an email. Otherwise, hope to see folks out there. Excellent. Mr. Mayor, thank you so much for coming in. Thanks for having me. That's our show for today. Thanks to Matt Mahan for stopping by. Alex will be back on the feed on Sunday with a conversation with our buddy Norm Eisen about the slush fund and all of Trump's other self-dealing. Check it out. Everyone else, have a good weekend. Bye, everyone. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. Our show is produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Rubin, McKenna Roberts, and Farrah Safari with Reed Cherlin, Elijah Cohn, and Adrian Hill. Our team includes Matt DeGroat, Ben Hefcote, Jordan Cantor, Charlotte Landis, Kiril Pellevive, David Tolles, Mia Kelman, Ron Stott, and Rachel B. Stott. We'll see you next week. Ryan Young and Naomi Single. Our staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. We possibly have lost. And with 2028 around the corner, where do we go from here? If you believe in democracy, community, and fighting for the future, now's the time to grab your tickets to CrookedCon 2026. Head to CrookedCon.com to get your tickets now.