Trump’s Map Makeover, Milo’s Deportation, and Gwyneth’s AI Dinner Drama

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Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine in the Box Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and it's the final week of. Got reogas. My guest today is the co-host of the "I've Had It" podcast, and I hip news and author of the upcoming book. Not today fascist. It's, of course, Jennifer Wilde. Hey, Jennifer. Hi, Kara. How are you? Thanks for having me. Good. Thank you for being here. You've been on a bit of a robole. I'm always getting in trouble. I know. I know. Yeah, always. What's your latest step in it? What have you done? Well, they really mad at me about the homeschooling. And then recently, a friend sent me a tweet that. Because I said, I think that Melania was purposeful and intentional in her documentary that she wanted everybody to know that she doesn't sleep with Donald Trump. Oh, well, this guy clipped up on right-wing media in the heartbreak hotel in the comment section. Because I think, surely, there's nobody left in the cold. And it's like they do two sleep together. They love each other. At least somebody loves him. Nobody loves you. I mean, they were really defending hardcore. And I'm like, she doesn't sleep with him. Yeah. She doesn't sleep with him. You still believe the people have left the cold. I don't believe that at all. I think they're in it to win it at this point. They're like, "I agree with you." I think they're in it to win it. I do. Right. What, how do you, what is the reaction when you do things? Like, it's like today, not today fascists. For example, explain the name of your upcoming book. It's kind of apparent. Okay. So, obviously, I grew up in the Bible belt. And so, in Bible culture, everybody would say not today, Satan. Right. And so, when we did, when I was writing the book, and we were coming up with a title, it's when Stephen Miller was like, you can't call us fascists. And we're going to make it, you know, fighting words or an act of terrorism to call us fascists. And I'm like, I'm going to put that in the title. Right. I'm going to call them exactly what they are. I'm not going to bend the knee. And so, I wanted that front and center in the title, not today fascists. That's an excellent name. But we talk about sort of the reaction to you. Is it gotten worse or bad? 'Cause I was talking at Maggie Hibberman and she was saying the hits again. The hits that Trump doesn't quite hit it as much as they used to. I mean, he just attacked her this week. Well, it depends. Like, right now, Hassan Piker is really captivating the space where a lot of people would be critical of me. But right-wing media loves to clip me up and go bananas. I recently said, I know what they're really mad at. So, I recently said that as a woman who grew up in the Bible belt, Sharia law or radical Islam is not a threat. Radical Christianity. Fundamentalist Christianity is a far bigger threat to women, a far bigger threat to children, a far bigger threat in the United States of America. And they have gone, "Bah, nannas." And they don't get it. They don't understand that like from my vantage point, the Republican politicians in the state of Oklahoma are about taking rights away. Fast forward, I move to New York City. Muslim mayor here is about giving more rights to people, not leaving anybody behind. But they're really mad about that 'cause I go after the religious right pretty hard and that really riles them up. - And where do you go back a lot? What happens when you go back? 'Cause there must be people there who agree with you. Sometimes, like I have a ton of French, Oklahoma City is a city of a million people, it's purple. I have a ton of progressive friends, and I want to say to any of your listeners that are a blue dot in a red state, you are the toughest liberals, progressives in this country hands down. And you understand, MAGA, more than all of the consultant class ever could combine. And so I have a ton of just great progressive friends, great Democrat friends, that Democratic friends that throw fundraisers for politicians, and they always lose, but we try. And so there's a great community in Oklahoma City. But now it looks like some of these states are turning, and Iowa looks like the handsome man is up, right? There's a lot of people that are pushing very hard this time. I know there's all these hopes and dreams to take Texas or Iowa or whatever states they happen to be. But, and again, I don't trust polling necessarily, but it looks kind of better than it ever had. That's correct. It does, but I have so much PTSD. Kara from 2024, you remember the poll in Iowa that she'll come along, I was like, oh yeah. And then we all wake up, it's heartbreak hotel. We're all devastated. And so I am very adamant that we not listen to a poll at all that we assume that this is uphill barefoot in the snow the whole way. And I assume that they're going to try to do all kinds of interference from all, all ways they can. And I just feel like only we can save us. And the turnout has to be so massive that it's too big to rig and that we send a message to the Supreme Court, to those in Congress, to the oligarchs that we are still in power. We are the guardrail. Yeah, it doesn't, doesn't feel like it on the ground. How often do you go back now? You live in New York, now correct? I live in New York. Let's see, the last time I was back there was February, so a while. Oh no, no, no, I went back in June. I went to an Oklahoma City Thunder game. Oh, good, okay. And what the mood was, what? Still pro-trop, still he's killing it. Well, it's different, it's weird. It's, you know, when you get into a city like Oklahoma City, it's so spread out. And so there's not like this mood that you can tap into, if you will, my friends that are progressive, you feel the mega-policy so much more in a red state. You really feel, because you have an abortion being, all of the politicians are picking on all the people that you want to protect, but they get hopeful, and I always got hopeful when I live there that, okay, maybe the worm's going to turn, but they recently had a gubernatorial race with a Trump-backed candidate in the Republican primary runoff, and then kind of a more moderate Republican with a Trump-backed guy won. Some of my friends were kind of upset, but the crazy, remember our school board guy, Ryan Walters, he's gone. There's whole kind of manner of nonsense around him, right? Or something like that. Yeah, he's, that guy's nuts. Like every time I would get on social media, Kara, he's in his car, filming from his car, talking about porn and gay sex and trans people. And I'm like, what is happening? What's going on here? Like, why are you talking about this in your car? I've been posting it on the internet. Right, yeah, I've found that unusual, but he's gone, correct, he's gone. He's gone, yeah, yeah. So you're still sort of batting down the fucking hatches, essentially, like no one shall pass that kind of, not today, fascist, essentially. Yeah, I do not trust these people. I don't trust the electorate after 2024, and I feel like we have to do reputational brand damage to the Republican brand, their liars. Wealth never trickle down. They treat the military like shit. They always have, look no further than the USS Lincoln. All of this notion that they're so fiscally responsible. Look at the $40 trillion in debt. What do we have to show for it? This notion that they are pro-life when every single policy that they undo, all the EPA deregulations, the food deregulations, the vaccine nonsense leads to deaths. And so I always say the Republican Party is a death cult. And we need to start decades, like they have. They have started decades of propaganda lying to the public about their brand and we need to start undoing it. It's gonna take a few minutes. political cycles. And so I'm hopeful that you see progressive winning around the country. I think that's great for the party. And I'm hopeful that we can get a democratic party that returns to that of FDR. Are you worried about the sort of fighting on the left, essentially? I mean, you-- A little. Tell me about that. So I just-- I'm kind of mystified by it, because we win elections with addition, not subtraction. And so I mystified that they aren't more opening of-- look, we understand the DSA is organized. We understand that they are winning races. And they're welcome in this tent in the districts that the people voted for them. It's so dismissive of democratic voters in places where these DSA candidates want to say they're not a part of the democratic party. Well, that's news to those voters, isn't it? Isn't that kind of just casting them aside? Maga would never do that. They would never ever do that. So I can't understand why-- Well, they did. They did have a lot of anti-Trumpers, or they would call them rhinos. They did toss out a few, right? Like they did. They did toss out people they might have worked with, possibly. And in fact, pilloried them, not just tossed them out, but really attacked them. Yeah, I'm just hopeful that I would prefer a progressive candidate win, but I'm not so precious about my vote. I would always go vote for a corporate Democrat. 12 times out of 10, because that's going to be much better than a Maga Republican. And I know this because I lived in a state where Maga Republicans had a supermajority in the education is 50th out of all 50 states. 50th ranked place for women to live in the United States of America is the state of Oklahoma. And these are Republican policies. These are Maga policies. So I don't know. I'm disappointed about that. But I think that some disagreement is healthy. But in the run-up to these midterms, like a lot of it centers around a duel I'll say, Ed, he won. He's a great candidate. He says, I'm not DSA. I'm a capitalist. Well, so does Elizabeth Warren. And people still, you know, that's Warren. So that indeed she is, by the way. We need to get these people elected, in my opinion. All right. We've got a lot to get to. So let's dig in, Jennifer. But first, President Trump is messing with maps again. He signed an executive or a renaming Lake Ontario, Lake America following a breakdown in trade talks between US and Canada. Google Maps has since adopted Lake America for US users. Well, Canadians can still see Lake Ontario and users elsewhere see both names. On the other hand, Matt Quest has reached the top navigation app in the US after saying it would not change the name of Lake Ontario. Canada has hit back with a giant Lake Ontario now and always billboard near the US border. Let's listen to a clip of Trump's thought process. I don't know whatever, while changing the name. So if you think about it, we have a golf and we have a lake. Now what we need is a notion. So maybe we'll have to change the name of the Atlantic and or the Pacific. I mean, I don't know what's wrong with them. Apple is weighing it. The Trump administration said they're going to change it soon. That's really depressing. If Apple does that on the same thing, none of these people have to. So should Canada rename Lake Michigan on their maps? I mean, this is ridiculous and stupid, but thoughts, thoughts, Jennifer? I mean, part of me thinks that the best way to mess with these people is to stoop a little low. And I think it would be hilarious. We're like, okay, we're changing Lake Michigan to Lake Obama on our side. That's what we're going to call it, you know? And just because this is the type of stuff-- It's a type of thing. Exactly. But this is so stupid. I'm not disappointed in him because he disappoints me all day every day. That's just an ubiquitous part of my life as an American. The Google of it all just like come on. They did Gulf of Mexico, too, in Gulf of America. And they did it. And they need to stop. So did Apple, by the way. I know. And it's these. And you told me this once, we podcasted together several months ago, and it stuck with me. I write about it in my book. This quote where you said, these guys believe in nothing. If Kamala would have won, they would have their pronouns in their bios and a pride flag. And that, to me, is like-- that nihilism is what's feeding all of this. Well, what is there anything to do? I put out a thing of how to get Google Maps off your phone and to switch your search engine to duck.go, or Acocias, another one, or Yahoo, whatever. You can switch to Microsoft and Bing and things like that. You do have limited choices in a lot of these things with mail. You do get locked into these systems, but I was trying to show people you don't have to use Google Maps. You don't have to use Apple Maps. Apple has not changed yet. But it did change the Gulf of America. I mean, they go whatever they call it, the Gulf of-- whatever the fuck that is. The Gulf of Dipshed. Dipshed, right? What do you think is behind? You can change stuff. But the fact of the matter is, the fact that they're doubling down at the end of the reign of Nero, he's fiddling, Rome is burning. And you're still kissing up to him. Shows-- I'm not sure what it shows, because some pushback Disney did around the FCC, or some pushback, all over the place, tends to work on some level. What is your message to these people, these tech people? It's like, why are you such tradwives to this man? Why are you so submissive? Like, why not stand up for your customers? This guy has a high 20% approval rating. Why not stand up for your customers? If they all lined up together, Zuckerberg and Tim Cook and Bezos and just said, enough, we're done. You're old. You're a dementia duck right now. And we have a cassette. That's what I call a pseudo lame duck, dementia duck. And they need to-- but I don't understand it. The only thing I can relate to is, other night, I watched one of these Mormon documentaries. Did you do that in your free time? I did. And so there was this guy. He was, of course, the cult leader. And all of these husbands that worship this guy, they're the ones who made all the money. And then they were giving this guy who was just lazy. Here's our wife, and here's our daughters. And they were so submissive to this guy, the money, everything. And I thought, oh my God, that's really what's happening with these maggot people, with even the oligarchs. Like, they would just do whatever Trump says. I believe I have heard that Tim Cook likes Donald Trump, likes him personally. Like, that's the thing I've heard from so many people. I can't believe. I mean, it's interesting because I'm pretty-- I think the job's family's horrified, but I think they're horrified by these behaviors. I doubt Steve Jobs. Everyone's like, oh, he would have done it. I'm like, you know, he wouldn't know. He wouldn't know this, not this level of-- he wasn't a submissive person. So that would have offended him on some level. And he did think about customers. And companies like Apple used to think of customers. You're absolutely right. They don't think of customers right now. And I know they're like, you know, you sort of that Michael Jordan quote, Republicans and Democrats, both by sneakers. I urge people to shift off of Google Maps. I urge people to shift off of Google search. It's very easy. It's very hard to get away from the entire system. I'd not use Gemini, use Claude, use-- but each of them has a problematic issue. And that's the question is, which do you have more of an issue with? You know, an anthropic thought back against the Trump administration. If that's your side, you should do that, you know, and that kind of stuff. And it's just as good search, by the way, FYI. I think that the biggest message, the electorate, needs to send. And I say this on my podcast all the time. It's to the Supreme Court. It's to Republicans in Congress. Even people in their own party, if you're a Democrat, who haven't fought hard enough for me, they haven't fought hard enough. And also to all of the tech CEOs, all the Fortune 500 companies, we are your customer. You have nothing without the American consumer. You have nothing. You don't have all these subsidies, Elon Musk, without our taxes being paid in. And that's a message that we need to send to now this new extension of the federal government, which is the oligarchy. And we need to send them as crystal clear of a guard rail that we're sending the other powers to be. Yeah, absolutely. If Apple does this, which I completely expect them to do, it's really a black eye on the legacy. And 1984, I was just watching that, the famous commercial. It's just so against all what Apple was about, which was customers and freedom, and not being pushed down by the autocrats. It's really quite something to see and grotesque on many levels and sad to watch. I wrote specifically Sundar Pachai, who I liked very much, just his behavior. I don't even know this person anymore. What, Kira, you've been so inside on all of this. I'm fascinated by the evolution of these people, whether it's the person you just mentioned or Marco Rubio. Is it-- Little Marco. Little Marco. Is it that when you go against your intuition and you caved to your worst impulses, does it break you? I mean, because I see all of these people as being broken and having almost a billionaire psychosis. I think they feel like victims. I think they can't. They feel like victims. They think they're victims. Everyone surprises me. Some people surprise me on the upside. Some people surprise me on most of them on the downside. And there's one person I'm not going to say it is, but I thought it would go completely would suck up to mag if they need to, and didn't. I'm sort of like-- he wrote me something to this morning, and I'm like, God, he's become such a liberal lesbian. It's fascinating. So it's really, it depends on the. person. But for the most part, it's about money and power and you never know what's going on inside companies. In the case of Senator Pachai, I suspect he's deeply insecure about his position. Despite a very good management of the company, he's got Sergei Bren, the founder, probably breathing down his neck, who's become super mega. And so, you know, and he also, Ian, I had a lunch once where when they were sort of attacking immigrants, and actually Sergei went to the airport to defend immigrants during that first Trump administration. And I was like, hey, Sundar, you're an immigrant. You might want to say something, right? And he's like, well, I'm not from, you know, I'm not a Muslim. And I'm like, I don't really care. Like, and we had a lunch and I said, you should say something. Like, I need just couldn't do it. I just, they're mostly feckless is what I find. And then it's easy to give in and say, shareholder value and the things they could do to us. And we want to defend a sweet defense department stuff. But let me just say it's only going to go on for so long. And then there's going to be fucking hell to pay. And if you think the Democrats aren't going to take it out on you, you, I think you're saddening the stake and because they are, and they should, and I will bother them to do so. Anyway, we're going to move speaking of leopard's ate my face. British far right commentator Milo Yanopoulos has been deported to the UK after ICE agents arrest him at the New Orleans airport last week. DHS said Milo legally entered the US in 2019, but quote, chose to overstay his welcome. This is not uncommon. By the way, Milo first made a name for himself as an editor at bright party later intern for Marjorie Taylor Greene. He's also worked for Kanye. What a resume. Milo has been a vocal supporter of Trump's immigration crackdown, calling for the deportation of millions very vocally and very, I mean, these ironic tweets that he had. Meanwhile, he's the person who, who got him, I think was correct. Laura Lumer is taking full credit that that hagg for the deportation saying she reported his immigration status to the ice and FBI. Between Milo and the tape brothers, we're currently fighting extradition to the UK on rape and human trafficking charges. America just exporting its far right influence or problem across the pond. I mean, what, what did you, what did you make of this? Now, he's a backer of Marjorie Taylor Greene, who's no longer a backer of Trump, who's no long, who's against Lumer. It's a bunch, it's, it's, it's Magon, Maga fighting happening here. But your thoughts on Milo, besides couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. Exactly. I mean, I, this kind of stuff, when you see the people who just went all chips in on being cruel to everybody else and the rules that, you know, apply to everybody else, don't apply to me. And then, you know, what they voted for, what they campaigned on happens to them. But an interesting thing about Milo, he's like a non-practicing gay. Yeah, he's, he's a gay man, but he says he's, he's no longer having gay sex. So just that one will have it with him. So just for that. And that is an accomplishment. We have a nut. Yeah, we're dealing with a nut here. But I, I just don't ever understand this, this cultish worship of Donald Trump. I'll just, I will never understand how people looked at him, just not only physically, but once he opens his mouth longer than three or four minutes and thought, this is a hill I'm dying on. And it was to the tunes of tens of millions of people. But I think there's going to be so much infighting and so much more Maga on Maga cannibalism, which I love and find quite delicious. I think, you know, whoever is leaking all of these crazy letters from Natalie Harp, the bunny boiler. You know that, remember the, maybe the bunny boiler? Of course. You know that it's somebody in there that's trying to sabotage the bunny boiler. So I think it's the most toxic work environment. I think the culture, who is your vote for that, the bunny boiler? Leeker. Oh, I kind of think, I'm kind of thinking Steven Miller. Yeah, me too. Yeah. I think it's Steven Miller. I love it. But I think it's, she doesn't, that's not. I think it's Miller because I think he probably thinks I need to get her out of the way. So I can be the bunny boiler. But you know, he's always like Steven Miller. There's nothing you can do about that. I'm really into aesthetics, you know. And so, Natalie is a much better looking. Let's be clear. I mean, it's not even close. Right. Yes. Still, she's fine. Still when she's not moving, it's fine. So what do you imagine is going to happen here with all these people? I mean, it's, it seems like there's a Marjorie Taylor green side and a Laura Loomer side, right? That's, and then Megan Kelly's on the outs and so's Tucker. So is a bunch of them, like, and then Mark Leven is somewhere else. So he's fighting Megan Kelly. I forget. Anyway, what is she got? Micro penis mark. Yes, that was, she remembered. She's keeping up with you. I was like, that's pretty good girl. I still think you're not, but credit where credits do. I think what's happening is we always have to be cautious about what this movement is incubating. So the tea party incubated MAGA. And MAGA is a million times worse than the tea party. And so what is MAGA incubating? And on one side, there's a lot of Christian nationalism. So if you look at Pete Hegcess, Pastor Doug Wilson, complete, lunatic, handmade tale, bat shit crazy stuff, right? But then if you look at Tucker and Marjorie and Thomas Massey, I've been calling this for a long time that they jumped off the Trump train first because they saw what was going to happen. They know that this guy is, you know, completely lost it. And they are starting this America first stuff. And I'm very fearful of it because in flyover states like in Oklahoma, it's going to hit hard because it's like, okay, we have $40 trillion in debt. Do we have a bunch of great public transportation? We have great public schools, we have great universities that people can go get a free education. We have health care. No. We have all of this debt from these wars and from not taxing these billionaires that we cannot afford enough. And so Marjorie and Tucker are doing this whole thing like MAGA abandoned us. And it's so clever because they're going to keep these triple trumpers like the hardcore cultists. Oh, Trump got crazy and he abandoned us, but we're still MAGA because it's such a part of their identity. I mean, so many people that troll me online, they're like their avatar is the fight, fight, fight assassination photo. And so I think that I'm very fearful of this because they're younger, smarter, more, the machinations that they are going to have. And the problem that I have with Tucker and Marjorie is, I think sometimes they say good things because they agree with us most of the time, but I think at the end of the day, there's a lot of xenophobia, a lot of homophobia, a lot of Islamophobia, a lot of anti-Semitism with all of them. Yeah, absolutely. They hate it. I don't trust them at all. Yeah. Some of them was like, you know, oh, Marjorie and I agree, I go, she's still crazy. She's still anti-trans. She's still like, she's appealing. That is true. That is true in that regard because she's saying things that are just sensible. But you see what she did. So you know this Angie Nixon, who's running for Senate and Florida. Laura Loomer just sent like the most disgraceful racist tweet on the planet. And Marjorie's hair, their green pops up and takes out Laura Loomer and defends Angie Nixon. And I was just like, okay, well, where has Al-Kim defended her? Has Chuckles defended her? Looking around and crickets from them. And so I'm worried about this next iteration of Marjorie. She's very appealing. Yeah, she's very, she's very canny. She's a very canny person. And maybe parts of her have changed, but I don't trust it. Exactly. I don't trust her at all. Even when Tucker says, obviously, intelligent person, all obviously intelligent people, by the way, you know, the difference is, and I think the point you're making is most like p-text that there's a moron. He's a toxic moron. But Marjorie's showing you green is not. Tucker is not. Massey definitely is not. These are smart, smart, canny people. And mostly of people around Trump right now are morons pretty much. Or he turns them into morons like Scott Besson, or Howard Lefnik is a moron. So it's an interesting, you know, they're much more dangerous in a different way or powerful if you if you were for them. Anyway, it's a good point. Okay, Jennifer, we're going to a quick break. We come back. When is Paltrow postpone a dinner with Sam Altman? Support for the show comes from Upwork. In a world where AI is changing every role in every industry, knowing who actually has deep expertise matters more than ever. That's why Upwork connects you with highly skilled freelance professionals with proven track records. So you can hire it with confidence. Upwork is a one-stop platform to find higher and pay expert freelancers across more than 125 categories. Find talent and start filling those skills gaps, launch projects faster and scale support up or down without committing to full-time headcount. You can browse profiles, review people's past work, and get help, scoping the role. Hire confidently while sticking to your timeline. Upwork also has Business Plus, with less you access the top 1% of talent on Upwork. With AI-powered shortlisting, you'll get matched to the right freelancer in under 6 hours. Upwork can also take care of operational stuff like contracts and payment so you don't have to worry about it. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That's Upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's UPWORK.com. Upwork.com. The future of law is agentic, not just tools that assist, but AI agents that navigate complex matters. Harvey was back. on legal agents that analyze draft and execute with precision. But great lawyers don't just complete tasks, they strategize. They build a plan, pull from secure data sources, run sub-agents in parallel, and draft the work product ready for your review. So you can delegate the work and own the judgment. Harvey agents support work across fund formation, litigation, regulatory compliance, M&A, and more, adapting to the complexity of each matter and the way your team actually works. Trusted by more than 60 percent of the AM, law, 100, and leading Fortune 500 legal teams, Harvey is the AI operating system designed specifically for legal work, helping teams move faster, with greater precision and confidence. Learn more at Harvey.AI. Dear Mr. President, I want things to always be right between us. I also know I've been distracted all week forgetting to eat throughout the days and even forgetting to sleep. I never want to bring you anything but joy. I'm sorry I lost my focus. You are all that matters to me. I don't ever want to let you down. Thank you for being my guardian and protector in this life. I have learned so much about myself on this trip. For the first time in, I don't know how long, you forced me to unplug. I didn't have to be human printer. Thank you for always being there for me. To modify a classic, I could not have parted with you to anyone less worthy. And I will add, it is I who is unworthy, with all my heart, Natalie. What is going on with Natalie Harp, President Trump's human printer, on today's explain from Vox? Jennifer, we're back with more news. I know you like dinner parties, and I know you have this incredible interior design sense in him business. But Gwyneth Paltrow's postponed a private off the record dinner or Hampton's home with open AI CEO, Sam Altman, after plans leaked and sparked an online backlash, writers and other creatives criticized the dinner as tone deaf, although it probably would have been exquisite, given growing fears about AI, disrupting the entertainment industry, Paltrow mocked the controversy by posting parody, dinner, invitations, honoring characters like Shrek and Jessica Rabbit. But the real event was postponed with no new date announced. Paltrow's venture fund reportedly invested in Open AI in 2023. I think that is correct. Did you get an invite? I did not. I was not invited. Yeah. What about you? No, no. I know we're pretty well, but you know, it's interesting that she gets, well, she attracts a lot of controversy just by opening her mouth, essentially, sometimes fairly, sometimes unfairly. What did you think of this? What did you imagine? I thought this was very much harsh. She was very much into funding. She's sort of like a, you know, you could compare it to a Ben Affleck, or who she dated, by the way. You can compare it to a lot of these people that just, you know, just do these deals, and just don't, they're just deal makers. She does get unnecessarily attacked at the same time, completely tone deaf to the moment. Yes, but I see it a little bit more intentional than you do. She had some AI defense contractor on her podcast, and she basically says, you know, my husband's so progressive, he has all this empathy, and he's an amazing person. And then she's like, but I'm a moderate. I feel nothing. And you know when you're at that level of star, that if you step and wait into politics, and there's plenty of time that that could have been deleted or edited from the episode, as you and I both know, and it wasn't. And I just don't think that's an accident. And then there was the advertisement she did for the Israeli penthouse. And now this. And I just think if somebody shows you who they are, believe them. I mean, she's in on, she's in on the oligarchy. But again, it goes back to the one thing that connects us all. In order for Gwyneth Paltrow to be Gwyneth Paltrow, I used to love Gwyneth Paltrow, watched all of her movies. I mean, we're the same age. I grew up and just thought, God, she's gorgeous. She's such an incredible actress. We're all in this kind of thing together. And we are her customer base, whether it be for films, for group, or whatever. And I just don't see these tech guys as being even remotely our friends. I mean, I've always thought since I really started looking into this, it was never the immigrants. I always knew it was never the immigrants. They were intake people's jobs. It's always these AI bots. And I just think there's a. Gwyneth Paltrow has the thing she's done is a little bit too in your face. And it makes me think she has no idea. She's so removed from what it's like to be a working class American. What it's like to, like, pay for daycare and then worry about health insurance. And these things that people have, she just seems completely out of touch. Yeah, I think she's very smart. I smell a lot. This is not a dumb woman. No, I think she is smart. I think she is smart. She's like deeply smart, actually, which is, I know people will push back in, but I'm telling you, very clever. And very, you know, I would say a very good entrepreneur, whatever you think of Goop. And a lot of people critical about I get all the criticisms, by the way. And she's put her foot in it lots and lots and lots of times, like for sure. She certainly attracts that too at the same time. But what's interesting about it is there's a real struggle in Hollywood going on with wanting to embrace and try the AI. Because I think it was, was it Scorsese? One of them was like, I'm going to try some stuff. Ben Affleck sells an AI company to Netflix, right? You know, there's a little bit of, not misogyny here. It's just the men do it a lot. There's a group of people that really want to embrace AI and don't want to take responsibility for it. You know, Reese Witherspoon got in trouble for the same thing, which is try, just at least try AI. And I think that was perfect. And they said, oh, she's being paid. I'm like, I don't think she's being paid. I think she really does think this. And I once had a conversation with her where she's like, if I, if I'm curious or interested in tech, people get mad. So I'm not going to say anything. And then when she did, she got in trouble. And she was right. I thought that was ridiculous. And what's hard here is that, you know, it's this sort of couple of things. Hamptons, Alfresco Dinner Party, Gwyneth Paltrow, Samlman. And you put them all together. And it is like a let them eat cake moment, right? Totally. And that's what's missing the narrative. Not that she has to necessarily hide her interest in AI, which I think she should have as a business person. She should. But it's more like, can you not? Like, I'm curious why she didn't get why this would be a problem. But I don't know. I just think that when I put all of those things together, because I do believe she's smart, I agree with you. I think she's a smart person. It's not accidental. These aren't that many missteps. So why do this? Why? Why? And let it. And then I know the invite got out there. But you have to assume it was going to, right? If you were her. Of course you would, especially Samlman. I mean, you know, he's such a boogie man right now. I mean, which speaking of which, did you ever watch that Tucker Carlson episode where Tucker asked Samlman if he killed one of his employees? Did you see that? Yeah. That was not nice. That was nuts, right? That was nuts. That was nuts. He did not kill him. That was crazy. That was crazy. Honestly, you can attack Samlman for the right things. He did not kill people. Let me be clear here. Yeah. So he did. And that was just a nutty moment and right wing media that I went on. But there is this anger towards people. And when you're sort of acting like a, you know, a French court here, you really, you're not editing yourself by keeping it to yourself, right? Like, why don't you just have a dinner with him and not make it a big deal and not make it a flex and go there and understand their stuff. Do a deal with him if you want to and accept the consequences of people thinking about you. But that to me is like, I can't figure out why. I mean, she had to know it was public. Of course she knew. Of course she knew. And what's the plus? What does that mean? I don't know if it's to kiss ass. I mean, look, I think it's trickle down kiss assery. And now we have going to pal tro kissing their ass. And it's just like shit's rolling downhill at this point. And I think a lot of people that want to be in that world don't get the fundamental anger that we feel. A lot of us, the majority of us, when we see these people that have incredible wealth because of this country, because of its innovation and all of all of the things. And being an American and doing business in America gives you that they went and kissed the ass of this guy who is indiscriminately and arbitrarily killing American citizens, who has built concentration camps, who's dismantling all the stuff that we hold dear, the pond, all the gold, the lake America, the gold. They completely are so detached from what we're all feeling about this. And I just, to me, my interpretation of her during this, it felt very flagrant. It felt very in your face. Yeah, it was wondering. I think it was the word Alfresco that got me. Would you go if you were invited? I would. I got to this. No, totally. I'd be like skunk, skunk, meat, garden party. I would get rid of ruin my reputation. Really? No, I'd be like, hi. I'm going to say everything that happened here. I'm keeping none of it to myself. Sometimes people invite me to things, you know, some of these tech people. I'm like, you know, I'm completely indiscreet. And they're like, really? You can't just come. I'm like, you know, I'm going to have to talk about it. So just a minute. Can you invite me, folks? I'll come. But I will completely throw you right under the bus. I will throw in the bus. I will report it accurately. What happened there? And I bet the food would have been delicious. In any case, I'd rather go with Ina Garten. That's what I say. "Go with Ina Garten." So much better, and the drinks are better. All right, Jennifer, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll be talking to a special guest. So like any good millennial, I have a love-hate relationship with the Gen Z. It's the phenomenon rattling millennials. They just look at you. They want something bigger themselves, lifestyles of priority, motivation is being inspired. But regardless of how you feel about Gen Z, it's undeniable that they're changing national politics. Generation Z is increasingly showing less loyalty to traditional political parties. Many now more likely to identify as independent. So what is going on with the kids? I think the biggest misconception about Gen Z's politics right now is that all of a sudden they're all socialists. That is just not the case. Yeah. They are embracing candidates who are offering new bold ideas in the absence of those ideas from establishment Democrats. This week on America, actually, Gen Z researcher Rachel Jamfasa joins us to separate Gen Z fact versus fiction. It's not rocket science, and this is, you know, I keep saying like, young voters aren't that complicated after all. It's pretty simple. Just every Saturday on YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jennifer, we're back. We were talking earlier about having PTSD from the 2024 election and worried about the Dems winning this time. Well, we're going to talk to someone who just had a big win nearly a year after she was fired by the Washington Post over comments she made on social media following the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Karen Atia has won her fight to get her job back at the time the Post said her comments harmed the paper's reputation and integrity created safety risks for its staff and violated its social media policy. But last week, an independent arbitrator ruled that the Post did not have sufficient cause to fire Karen. The paper is ordered to reinstate Karen and give her back pay, meanwhile, Adam O'Neill, the opinion editor who fired Karen announced in July, he was leaving the post. We're recording this on his final day at the paper. Goodbye, you moron. Anyway, Karen Atia is joining us now. Welcome, Karen. Thanks, Karen. Super excited to talk to you. I know. So tell me, you were at the post 11 years and we've known each other quite a few years and my wife worked with you in the section when she was working there and you were the editor who hired Jamal Kashogi. Talk about what, right now, what's happening? You've got your job back, but will you be returning? But the Post has not said anything. It said it respects the arbitration process, but did not elaborate. So as of today, my team is in touch with the Post. I can say now that I am still fully expecting to be reinstated back to my former title and position and waiting on the Washington Post to sort of comply with that. So what is complying? Let you in the building? Oh, I mean, I think they'll let me in the building, all of that. But ultimately, you know, I was a columnist. I was a writer at the time of my wrongful dismissal. I'm sure the question on everybody's mind in my mind, as well as will I be allowed to write in the Washington Post's opinion section, at least unclear at the moment? I'm clear. So they may not let you write. We will see. Karen, what did you say about Charlie Kirk that they deemed so provocative they had to terminate you? So actually, what I said about, it wasn't even about Charlie Kirk in the aftermath of Charlie Kirk, yes, I was commenting more about the political discourse that was happening because if people remember, there's so many folks who are talking about, I mean, they saw the graphic video. And of course, like his death was horrific and violent. But so many people were going to these empty cliches, in my opinion, about this is not who we are. Political violence has no place here. All of that, which I just tend to find, you know, empty, personally irritating, especially considering that that day and a lot of people forgotten. There was a school shooting in Colorado, literally the same exact time. And a couple of months earlier was the assassination of Melissa Hortman, the Democratic Lawmaker in Minnesota, and her husband, dead due to gun violence and due to a white man who shot and killed them and their dog. So for me personally, I was looking at the Charlie Kirk shooting in the context of the reaction of the reaction of what America was showing itself to be. And in particularly when it comes to white men who killed people. You're a columnist, right? And what you said was, and you could have actually written this, refusing to tear, let me read it, just so people know, refusing to tear my clothes and smear ashes on my face in performative mourning for a white man that is about violence is not the same as violence. It seemed, I mean, I get people were upset at the moment, obviously, but would you talk a little bit about why you push so hard also? Why did you push so hard to do this? I remember you and I talking, and I thought when the buyouts were happening that maybe you should dig them because I thought they were going to target you easily, especially with this new guy coming in. And you said, no, I'm going to stick there, Kara. And I admire you for that. And then indeed, that's exactly weighted for a moment to get you in some fashion. You know, to this day, I still think about my decision making process. It's still hard to explain why I just felt at a almost spiritual cellular level that like, no, I'm not going to give up, not only it was beyond just my job, I like, it also is the fact that yes, I was the last black full-time staff columnist left after those buyouts. And I think for me, I just wasn't really interested in making things easy. Did I expect that they were going to fire me with this? No, not at all. But I mean, I think for me, I just felt like, and it's just who I am in terms of being a martial artist, being, I think it's just a character trait of mine, that I wasn't going to give up so easily. So when I saw that the termination letters specifically, when I saw that they terminated me because they claimed I was disparaging white men. So they accused me of being racist against white men, and violating their social media policies. I was like, this is absolutely absurd. It's going to be an annoying fight, but there's no way, there's no way I was not going to fight it. So what I first saw the termination letter, and particularly when they accused me of such a grudges act, they said that I was guilty of gross misconduct, that I was endangering my colleagues, and also that I was disparaging white men based on the race and gender. I just thought it was so absurd that I couldn't not challenge this, no matter how long it would take. A lot of people lost their jobs because of this. And I think it's interesting how the pendulum swung from, you know, we're so anti-cancel culture, we have to do a way with woke point one. And then when the other side got power, the cancel culture is out of control right now with maggot. They are canceling everybody and everything. And I think you were a part of that. Do you have any information about other people like you that lost their jobs that are now being vindicated for exercising the First Amendment? For sure. I mean, we're seeing the settlement cases in terms of university professors who are getting reinstated, who are getting huge payouts. I mean, I think part of this is, and it's interesting. I mean, this is beyond to me, cancel culture. I've been saying this is Maga's annihilation culture, right? I mean, using whatever sort of weapons they can to come after journalists, academics, even, I was hearing about someone who was actually arrested, over Charlie Kirk comments. I mean, just a disproportionate response, right? And against for me, particularly because, in my case, the Washington Post or whether it's universities, journalism academia, the whole point of our institutions is to, we are trying to suppose to sort of take a step back, be objective, collect facts, be above emotion, even for me and my post. There was a reason why I didn't comment very directly on the breaking news about what was happening in Charlie Kirk. I wasn't speculating about the news or about motives or anything like that because that's my training as a journalist is to wait until the facts come in. And this is the post academia, they succumbed to the hysteria at the very least and at the very worst being accomplices of Maga and going after people. Do you think the post can return to what it once was? I mean, you brought in Jamal Khashoggi, they Jeff very much a backer of that, as you recall, at the time he was murdered. Do you think they can return to it while he's still at the home? You know, I don't think that, but you know, a lot of people have been asking, I mean, about this question of return can the post go back in you asking me, Karen, can you go back to the post? And you know, the way that I think about it, and perhaps again, I'm a besieged idealist, but this is what helps keep me going. Right now, I'm wearing red. Right now, it's the color of the yellow, it's the Washington Post skill that helps that fought for me to get my job back. I would not have been able to challenge this. It wasn't for the fact that I was a union member, filing a grievance. You know, hiring Jamal Kishoki, I hired a Jamal Kishoki. I'm saying all that to say, like, the Washington Post, yes, we have management that has been making terrible and reckless decisions, but I see the post as more than just them. Like, I recognize that I'm also going back to people who fought for me, people who saw that this is wrong. Some of the news, they're breaking a lot of really breaking a lot of news. Trump administration, you know, people are going after them for recent reporting on the military and Iran right now. So, you know, I always want to distinguish any institutions as only as good as the people and as the journalists there. I am the Washington Post. Right. You don't have to like, I am America. But they continue, like, I think the editorial section, the news section is doing great job. They've broken a lot of really excluding about the Lincoln Memorial, the Kennedy Center, you know, the reflecting pool, but a lot about military right now, the Lincoln, they were way ahead on that. They seem to be poking at Trump really hard in the news section. In fact, sort of back, you know, I wrote Matt a note saying, great job. This is amazing. And two of the people that were involved in your attempted demonstration, a demonstration are gone. Will Lewis and Adam, it's kind of interesting. Like, I can't tell what's happening there besides your ability to like cast like something like, they're just bad karma for those two in terms of what happened here and the shift. So, you don't know. Well, I mean, what can I say? I was hoping to be able to say good night and good luck to Adam, but I don't think. Yeah, you don't get to go on the office. I don't get to go into office yet. Yeah, but bye bye goodbye. Yeah. But sure, I mean, you know, honestly, I think it's a bigger lesson in terms of this whole, this whole political wave that we're seeing. Like, it doesn't pay off to do the bidding of censorship and oppression. You will not be protected. You lose your jobs and your credibility by going against people's rights. And the powerful people will still discourage you anyway. Yes, I lost my job, but I'm back. That's great. But over the weekend, like Donald Trump said, NBC's Kristen Wilker, it's always a woman he attacks would be reported to the FCC for a book or punishment for comments he didn't like about it. I think she said it was mixed, it was a mixed record. It was, it was factually correct. What's your message then to fellow journalists in this moment in terms of that? And I was glad you fought, but I was worried, as you know, I was worried for you and said that, like, they're going to find something Karen. I think I could find that, you know, because I know how these assholes think, right? They're trying to find any way to attack you. But what's your message to fellow journalists? Because it continues. It doesn't stop. And it's often a woman. It's often a woman of color. Like, you think of Rachel Scott at ABC. You think of like Maggie Heyberman. It's not a woman color, but still, it's just Caitlin Collins. It's the same kind of attacks all over the place. Yeah, I just hope that this is this is proof of standing your ground, if you can, of course. I mean, I took a very calculated risk. I'm not going to pretend that this year wasn't hard, but I think it's, it's another lesson in these mostly men are extremely thin skins, right? And I think that the facade of strength and what they're trying to project is is weaker than it really is. And again, thank God that we still have a functioning court system and legal system that allows us to fight back. So I think if anything, particularly for black women, I think the message when people see my story is like, fight back, suit, make it harder. At the very least, I recognize that I, I still could lose. I mean, I'm still not out of the woods. But at the very least, it's, it's a message to stand not just for me, but the folks who are still at the post, the members of the guild, other journalists that at the very least, you can see that I'm willing to stand up for our profession. Even when it's time, look, Gemakashotchi died for being able to write. I mean, I'm worried about a job in each chart. That's peanuts compared to what true. The journalism is life and death. You know it, I'm fighting back. Sometimes you win and when he feels good. Yeah. But what is your first column for the post going to be about? Do you have any idea if they accept it? Yeah. If I definitely think there's, there's a column to be had on fighting back and about, about, yeah, about censorship. I mean, I'm free markets, free markets and the personal, you know, fighting for your own liberties. Yeah. Right. So we'll see. Yeah, that's a grant for what he wants, right? He wants you to write about liberties and free markets and the ability to say what you want. The marketplace of ideas for the markets include unions, all of that. So we'll just see. All right. Jennifer, do you have a last question? Yeah. Final question for the layman that consumes news like me. I now, when I'm reading the news and it's aggregated and I see something from CBS, I'm meeting him like, if I see something from the Washington Post, I'm like, and it's tainted this, this type of partisan ownership, distinctly partisan ownership. What do you think that's doing to journalism and to public trust and journalism? Because I'm a podcaster, but I always say I'm a podcaster. Journalism is the gold standard. Yeah. I mean, I think about this a lot because in my year of exile from the Washington Post, of course, you know, I joined Substack. I was writing freely. I saw how, and even when I was not being invited on cable TV mainstream media, it was the independent media that kept going and kept platforming. So I do think that places, even when I was working there, places like the post, like mainstream media, do have an image of credibility problems and that there are alternative sources of of information and ways that people can be courageous outside of that space in ways that they can't be inside, you know, those spaces. So I feel like, I feel like in, and we're just dealing with a lot more, I think podcasters and independent, I think you're a part of the news ecosystem. There's always been news anchors who don't actually go and gather the news. They read and they determine what is important to their audiences. I mean, it's like someone described it as town cryers, right? The town cryer, Dan. Yeah, it's all those curses and cacles. A digital town cryer. So I always see this as an ecosystem, but that being said, I mean, mainstream news is not adapting, not even not adapting fast enough, actively resisting, changing, and if they want to be relevant in the next six months to a year to be honest, they're going to have to understand that that voices, you know, like caravs or like mine, that this is what people come to, people want to be able to trust people. And so we'll just see, again, like I said, will they allow me to maintain a voice, the post, to be continued? They fucking better, Karen. I'm on this now. I think you're about us. Absolutely. Anyway, Karen is wonderful. People can find you on Substack and The Washington Post. They better like, they better sack up Jeff Bezos. Sack up Jeff Bezos. Let Karen have her paste. She's a great voice, and we need lots of different ones as we go for it. If you believe in that, as you say you do. Anyway, Karen, thank you so much and congratulations, and I really appreciate your fight. Me too. Thank you. Thank you guys. He's in Karen the best, Jennifer. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Jen. Let's hear some wins and fails. All right, Karen. My win is a judge in Texas that said no more bands on drag shows. That's BS. And he said, I have a simple solution for this. If you don't like drag queens, drag shows, simply don't go, which is what I've been saying all along. But to hear a federal judge in Texas say this, I thought that was such a win. It's so simple. I love it. Excellent. And my fail is a bomb squad was deployed in Washington, D.C. shut down an entire block over a $600 sex toy. Was that in your neighborhood? So Karen, my question is, was that yours? It was. That was so we were laughing our asses of although we were like bomb squad. Then we're like next toy. Like it was like one of these moments of art in the neighborhood that everyone was laughing. Yeah, yeah, it was mine. I have to say it was I'm really sorry. D.C., it's all right. It's always been a thing. It's the last thing. Well, that's my zone spend $600 on the toys, anyway. That was-- it was not a fail. That was a win in a weird way. All right, I'll go next. I have so many kind of nice wins. I'm really loving all this sort of love of Dolly Parton because it makes you feel like good, good America. But I like that the National Airport's going to be named after her. I like that. I know it's a small stoop. It's like, it's like not the biggest deal in the world. Someone said they should change the call sign to Triple D. It should be, and if you're leaving there, you're department. You're department, you're department. I just like the whole thing. And you know, Tennessee's a problem. And so is that governor, but it just-- that was good. But I think more to the point, it's sort of spurred me like someone who followed, I think, in her footsteps, really nicely. This weekend was Olivia Rodrigo's Daisy Chainfield's Music Festival. She raised $10 million for women and girls, issues, and then Melinda Gates, French Gates, came in and doubled the amount for these women's cherries to $20 million. I heard it was flawless. It looked fantastically fun. You know, Olivia Rodrigo, speaking of celebrities, does not have to do this. She could just sing and shut up essentially. She has been outspoken. She's a wonderful artist, by the way. And she really is kind of channeling Dolly Parton in that regard. Every time you turn around, there's something else she gave money to. I really like that Olivia Rodrigo did this, because there is a cost to a young woman on the upswing in a career doing this. And Dolly Parton did the same thing with some of her songs about women and girls early in her career. She took a risk by not selling her song to Elvis. She did all kinds of things. So I really appreciate it. More to Olivia Rodrigo, but I'm glad Melinda did this and doubled the amount, because she has the means. It's always women who are doing this thing, whether it's Mackenzie Scott or Lorraine Powell Jobs. This is who does these things. And I really appreciate it. I just feel like, women have just got to take over. Someone wrote me like, "Matriarchy has to start like yesterday," or something. But it felt really nice in that regard. So those are mine. OK, Jennifer, I'm going to pass the rain to you for a minute before we wrap up. You said you had something you wanted. So all yours? Yes. So you may remember when you were on "I've Had It," we played a game called "Had It" or "Head It." Yeah. Summer list, if you think-- Hit it means fuck, right? Hit it means not necessarily fuck, mind in the gutter carat. It means that-- It means that-- yeah, I'll hit that. It doesn't mean you'll fuck it, but it means that you like it. Oh, good. I'm fine. You need to get laid to not care. I'm the one. OK, I'm in San Francisco. All right, Kara, "Had It," or "Head It," the bunny boiler Natalie Harp. This is a strange thing I'm going to say. I am like, I haven't had it yet. I want more. I want to know more. What a strange relationship. I want to know more about her and what her-- it probably is garden variety, weirdo, stalker or kind of thing. But it's really an interesting, weird relationship. And it's-- you know, your now historians will plumb it and understand it better. But I want to know more about what's happening with this young woman, like what-- I think it's-- She's home-schooled. Yeah, and then Liberty University. I get it. I get it, but there's lots of people. It didn't end up like this. And I also know how it's going to end. That's-- I feel like it could go off the tracks. I do too. And I'm kind of here for it. I'm me too. Yeah, "Head It," "Head It," "Head It," "Head It." I'll hit it too. OK, "Head It," or "Head It," the DSA. You know, it's interesting. Because my son is kind of DSA adjacent. So I listen to a lot of stuff. He says, I think everyone should do what they want. I'm not like-- I feel we had a good discussion about it. And you know, a lot of the stuff is great. A lot of stuff-- you know, Medicare for all. I'm for that, you know, $25 minimum wage. I'm for that. Not as many wars. Yes. Like, cut the deficit. Sure. Like, I just think sometimes, you know, and compared to the right, there's-- to me, it's not the same thing. But I do think they need to stop with this insoriousness. But I think the anti-semitism is disturbing many times. Often I saw a Brad Land or getting sort of pilloried. And I don't know if they were DSA people. But I'm not like in that. I don't think if we tell them, they shouldn't call trans people names. They shouldn't be doing that. And even if you're angry at Israel-- and I do think there's an absolute lane for people who are supportive of Israel and Jewish people in this country. And hey, Nanyahu, and that's OK. And shouldn't be attacked for that either. So I certainly haven't had it with them. But I think you know, just if you want to convince people, hatred is not the way to go at the same time, some of these ideas are terrific. Yeah, yeah. I saw the thing with-- the message-- let me just start with this. The message I overall get from DSA is one of universal human rights. But I saw-- and Brad Lander's a friend of mine. And he's incredible. He is a really, really great person. And I saw that. And I just-- I don't like that. The same where I saw Wiener in San Francisco. I think we need to be really cautious about our message-- and I'm not DSA-- but the message that we should all have on the left or center left or far left of universal human rights and making sure that we don't leave anybody behind. OK. Next up, had it or hit it, life coaching or life coaches? Had it. It's ridiculous. It's fucking ridiculous. It would be dead in 50 years. I think it's a whole thing. Like I get it. It's a whole world. And it's like all the household health books. But I'm going to write one of those. Mine was called Know is a Complete Sentence. That's my life coaching. Oh, I love that. Thank you. OK, here's the last one. Had it or hit it, cats? Cats, the musical-- No, the felines. The analogs. Gellicle ball was amazing. Gellicle ball was so good. But what about the-- I hate it, the musical cats. Cats, I love cats. I have a cat. How could you not be for cats? I'm four cats. I hate cats. But you know, I have cats. I hate a cat, which I hate cats. I eat dogs, I want to-- I'm not hitting on ferrets. I'm in my house where I raised my two older kids. And one time my son came home from school with, I think it was a ferret or one of those animals. And I was like out of this house immediately. So cats and dogs, I love them all. Love them all. Me too. They're great. That's all I have for you. All right, OK. Let me ask you a question. What is your latest last thing, your name? You have all these name cancels. I like dementia, duck. I like that. What is your favorite new name? And can you just give people how you come up? Do they just pop into your head? They just come to me. I get worked up. And then I just start going. And then just the insults just come up. My favorite one lately is the bunny boiler. Because it had been a while since I'd use that. When we were younger, and I remember in college, when if there was a before cell phones, if you wanted to go hook up with somebody, now you'd have to go screen scratch. And so we'd call kind of a bunny boiler or screen scratcher. And then what also screen scratcher could graduate to bunny boiler. And so I had used bunny boiler in quite some time. When I saw her, I was like, we have a bunny boiler on our hand. That's one of my favorite movies. I think Glenn Close is phenomenal in it. The nominal. It's so good. And so I really enjoy the bunny boiler. You will not ignore me. I won't be ignored, Dan. That's right. Oh my God. Oh my God. I got to re-watch that movie. Because I've a feeling it's not very nice to women. I have a feeling. Like, you know what, Karen, you remember that a lot of songs-- I've listened to a lot of Yacht Rock. It's so rapy. I think about this song. She's just 16 years old. Leave her alone. They said, if I could fly or take you up, I'll take you into the night. It's like talking about a 16-year-old. Yeah. Same thing. You go back. Do yourself ever go watch an episode of Three's Company. You're about the right. You're knock on my door. It's my dog. Come in, knock on my door. It's a rape show. It's a rape show. Anyway, just-- I'm sorry, founders of it. Just go watch it. It's like this, like, very-- one of my sons was watching it with me. And they're like, mom. And I'm like, I know it wasn't. It wasn't that-- yes, it is. Like, it was really. Anyway, anyhow, I appreciate it, Jennifer. We want to hear from you. Send your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show. We'll call 85551Pivot. OK, that's the show. Thank you so much, Jennifer. You can listen to more from Jennifer on the I've had it podcast. And you can pre-order her book, Not Today, Fascists. Now, when does that come out? October 6th. October 6th. This is great. And is there a party? Will there be a party? I'm going a little tour. Four stops. DC, New York, Chicago, and Boston. And so you can go to I've had it podcast.com. And hit us up for tickets. All right, that'd be great. I will-- if I am in town, I will be there. But we should do some sort of party for you. Anyway, thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday with one final, Scott Free August session. Today's show was produced by Larry Namens, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Todd Weissman, Ernie Andredont, engineered this episode. Nishaot Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot. From Vox Media, we'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. OK, Jennifer. One thing you have to do is say, welcome back, Scott. Or say, whatever you want to say, you can do a Scott impression, whatever you want. (upbeat music)