The President of the United States is throwing a two-day midterm pet rally in Dallas, Texas this week. Let's see what he had to say last night. If the Republicans win the House of Representatives and the United States Senate, both of them, because of our economic, tremendous economic success, like in history, we've never had anything like what's happening. But because of our tremendous strength and success economically, I will issue a dividend to every adult citizen in the United States of America for $5,000. Okay, so let's add buying votes to the list of midterm shenanigans. We just had dueling rulings and Missouri. The rhyme makes it sound fun, but the Supreme Court and a lower court keep budding heads over gerrymandered maps there and don't even get us started on what's going on with mail-in voting on today, explained from Vox. When it comes to AI, there is what we could do and what we should do. What will we decide? I'm Kimberly Neville, host of the Pondering AI podcast from SAS. Every episode, I sit down with innovators, researchers, and technologists to consider the questions that come after the AI breakthroughs. Questions that don't have easy answers, but need to be asked. If you're curious or concerned about AI, join me as we challenge assumptions and ponder the issues together. Find Pondering AI wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Getting better at something is hard, whether it's running, gardening, playing an instrument, or anything else worth doing. You need to commit to the process it takes practice, patience, a willingness to be vulnerable, but it's also really rewarding once you get there. But anyway, BetterHelp is saying that Better is a feeling defined by you, and for BetterHelp, it's a BetterHelp therapist who really gets you. It's a focus on global emotional well-being, with thousands of therapists and millions of members in over 100 countries. It's progress. Sign up and get 10% off at BetterHelp.com/explained. That's
[email protected]/explained. Your elections are crooked, and your crooked and meets the presses crooked, and so is ABC, and CBS, and- Today explains- You're one-sided crooked networks, right? Let's call it quick, because I've had enough. Thank you, darling. Have a good time. I'm Patrick Marley. I'm a reporter with The Washington Post. I cover elections and voting. Let me ask you this. First and foremost, is there now or has there ever been a significant issue with fraud in our mail-in voting specifically? I mean, voter fraud exists. It does happen. It does not happen in a large scale. It doesn't happen at a level that can swing certainly presidential elections. There are cases of fraud throughout the years in individual races where it has been significant, but it's not happening anywhere at the scale that Donald Trump would have your belief. Right, because if you were a close follower of the president of the United States, you would think that mail-in voting fraud is up there with immigration, and the fact that DC doesn't have an arch in terms of importance. What has he been up to in terms of fudzing with our election systems, especially as they pertain to mail-in voting? And mail voting in particular has been a fixation of his. He has call for its outright elimination in some cases. And mail-in voting is a fraud. Mail-in ballots are corrupt. Mail-in ballots, you can never have a real democracy with mail-in ballots. Most recently, in March, he signed an executive order that would change how mail-voting is conducted and put up a lot of logistical hurdles, I guess you could say, that would make states in the post office do some new processes that would determine who would get a mail-ballot, and there's a significant risk that a number of people who would qualify for mail-ballots would not be able to get them. Tell us the specifics, who gets them, who doesn't. So what they want is for every state to upload onto a web portal to the post office, a list of all voters in a state who are eligible to receive ballots. Then when the states would take in their actual physical ballots to a mail facility to be mailed, they would scan barcodes on the outside of these envelopes and compare that to the list of voters who had been provided by the state to the post office. And if they found even one mismatch, according to a whistleblower who has submitted a report to Congress, if they found even one mismatch in a batch of ballots, they would hold back the entire batch of ballots and send it back to the state of the county to rectify. And so you could theoretically have a situation where you've got one ballot where an address has changed or there's been a name change that doesn't match what the post office has most recently, in a batch that also has 999 eligible voters who don't have any issues with their addresses or their names, and the entire batch would be blocked. Okay. And you mentioned a whistleblower. Why is there a whistleblower? Is this not all happening, I don't know, out in the open? Well, first of all, everything is on hold right now because of courts. So what Trump has tried to do has been halted by the courts. It's on a rocket ship to the Supreme Court, probably, and we'll get an additional ruling between now and the election probably very soon. So everything's on hold in the midst of the litigation, some unnamed person who is a federal official aware of what the post office is doing, submitted a whistleblower report to Congress. And that document is public, although we don't know who the person is. They say that there has not been adequate testing of this online portal that I was talking about that things have been very rushed and that they see a lot of technical flaws that could result as they put it in catastrophic failure. Okay. So this unknown whistleblower says that this attempt to make our elections more legitimate and safer could actually result in, sorry, catastrophic failure. Catastrophic failure of this online portal to which states are supposed to upload their list of voters. So in other words, a complete breakdown potentially because they believe it hasn't been tested fully, it has not been made available to the states over this time. That there would be this giant hiccup backlog inability for states to get their voter rolls in or for somewhere along the line for the post office to not be able to access the list when it needs to or compare it to the ballots that it has and that that would gum up the works. What's going on with the Supreme Court? You said that this is sort of being held up right now, but it sort of sounds like it's also going ahead right now. So help us understand that. Well, the president signed it and then there were a bunch of lawsuits on this right away. A group of Democrats sued states led by Democratic officials sued voting rights groups sued. These are in different courts. They get through in a federal district court in Massachusetts and judge Indira Talwani finds that this is going to be a problem and blocks key provisions of the executive order that would prevent the post office from doing this. That gets appealed and it makes it in August to the Supreme Court. The question before the Supreme Court at that moment is not, is this system okay? Can they do this? The question is, was the judge right to block it at this stage? And the Supreme Court said, yeah, this decision was rendered too early. The states don't quite yet have the right to sue and so allowed the administration to move forward implementing the executive order. Then things just went right back to the lower court. The administration took further steps to advance it. It became clear that it was at a point where the states would have standing to sue and she blocked it again essentially on, you know, similar grounds that this was going to be very disruptive and that it was not ready to go for the midterms. And now Trump is trying to get it back to the Supreme Court for them to put it in place for the midterms. It sounds very messy. That's messy. Sure. Welcome to election litigation. I mean, this is the new world of elections. It's just, you know, a lot of changes, a lot of challenges, a lot of stuff going to the courts at the last minute and then holding an election and then having a bunch more legal fights. That's the new reality of democracy in America. So if ballots are already out in some states and the Supreme Court makes a decision, let's say, I don't know, later today that recalls them how much does that affect what the voter experience in, you know, Missouri or, you know, Kansas or wherever. Yeah. So first of all, I don't think you could say that any ballots would be recalled. North Carolina is the first state that needs to mail ballots in the country. It had to do it last week because it has a state law that says mail ballots must go out 60 days before an election to any voters who requested it. So 40 or 50,000 people who requested ballots.
Well, it's tens of thousands of ballots got put in the mail. I know at least the future sections of Wisconsin have started mailing ballots to voters. So there are ballots out there. Now let's say tomorrow or today, the Supreme Court said that Trump could implement this plan. So it could be that the court would say those ballots are fine and any future ballots have to fall under these new rules. Honestly, we would probably have more litigation over what would happen to those particular ballots. But I think that's maybe less of a concern than the tens of millions of other ballots that would clearly fall under this new rule and that the states would have to comply to get those out the door. Okay. And is there anything further to say about the president? I mean, it seems sometimes, you know, he catches a lot of heat for being more concerned with his ballroom than the issues voters care about. Be it inflation or the price of gas or, you know, the amount of debt this country has. But on the other hand, he seems very concerned, maybe not with those issues, but with the integrity of our elections themselves. What is that about? I don't know. His long time fixation of his is something he's been very concerned about and real about. I think anybody who even glancingly follows politics knows that he has many concerns about elections in the way they're on it and wants to see big changes. He himself uses mail voting. He recently voted in Florida's primary by mail ballot. But he wants to see serious restrictions on that, you know, a challenge for him is that the Constitution says states for elections and it does give Congress the power to step in and regulate them. But it doesn't have any explicit authority for the president. So he's trying to do a lot of things that, you know, many legal scholars say he just doesn't have the authority to do. Mail in voting conspiracies feel like the president's new big lie. Remember the one about how he won the 2020 election? But it turns out the big lie is alive and well in 2026, and that's next up on today's Explained. What will we decide? Every episode I sit down with innovators, researchers and technologists to consider the questions that come after the AI breakthroughs. Support for the show comes from article and for all those of you who are like can't wait to read, not so fast. Have you ever looked around your home and realized you've had some of the same furniture for years? And you're not even sure if you like it anymore? Article can help you update your home. The curated range of quality furniture and affordable price. Whether you're like a mid-century modern man or a coastal gal or a scandy inspired type or some mix of all of the above, you can find beautiful pieces at just the right price for you and your space, clear white has tried it, clear. 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You get visibility into your profit loss so you can make calls about your business with confidence. You can take back control of your business today, don't wait. You can open a found account at found.com. It's found.com. Found is a financial technology company, not a bank bank, and services are provided by lead bank member FDIC, F-O-U-N-D.com. Found does not provide tax legal or accounting advice, optional subscriptions to found plus for $35 per month, $350 per year, or found pro for $8 per month, or $720 per year. There are no monthly account maintenance fees, but other fees such as transactional fees for wires, instant transfers and ATM apply, read found fee, schedule. You've got mail. Fred. Today's plan is to show Andrew Kaczynski is the guest. He's a senior reporter at CNN and he recently reported on the 2020 election deniers running for big, important roles in 2026. The interesting thing is that we talked about in this article that we did on five, the five most key swing states, a governor's races. We're talking Arizona, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin and Georgia. These are all states that Trump won 2016, Biden wins 2020, then Trump wins 2024, and what we had talked about was how in each of these of the five most important states, there are candidates running for governor who, in four of the cases, just outright denied the results of the 2020 election. You'd have 61,000 votes that, on a by-time stamp, come into Donald Trump, and then the next thing you know, at the exact almost within a minute or so, the exact thing never goes to Biden, and then a subtraction goes to Donald Trump. Who won the election in Arizona? Donald Trump? We don't know. We know that he won. How are these candidates in these five races fairing? Does it look good for any of them? Well, with the caveat that we've seen some pretty big polling misses already in two of these states, most of these candidates are behind in the polls, but, you know, there's always the caveat that these are states that Trump won in 2024 and 2016, so they're going to be their true battlegrounds, so, you know, anything could really happen in them. And how much is their dispute lie about the 2020 election coming up in their races? Not a ton, but what we did see was when we did this story pointing out that in, you know, at least in four of the key states, these are candidates that outright denied the election. When we reached out to three of them, they immediately gave us statements saying they would accept whoever won in their states in 2028. They would certify the winner. They said that Biden did win in 2020. So we've seen, you know, election denial is kind of a liability. It would seem for these candidates, especially because just give you the example of Michigan where John James has been down by like seven or eight or five or six in some of the polls. And you know, he was somebody who originally, he got elected in a swing seat in 2022 as a member of Congress after he had two failed Senate runs and he was like, yeah, of course, Biden won in 2020. And then when he ran this time, he actually went the other direction when he maybe was trying to get Trump's endorsement. There's a rally where he said that Trump won Michigan three times, which obviously did not happen. Well, again, thank you, Mr. President for coming back to Michigan where you've won three times. So you have a situation where, you know, it is probably a liability, but a couple of these, you know, candidates are running for them. But at least two of them, Andy Biggs and John James didn't say that Biden won in 2020, didn't say they'd certify the winner and didn't really give us a comment at all on that. But three of them said they would certify the winner. Do you see this as part of like a broader effort on the part of this administration or the Republican Party more broadly to sort of legitimize the big lie into our institutions into even election administration, which there's been lots of reporting about. Or is it just a coincidence, are there so many election deniers now that like inevitably some of them are going to be running for office in key battleground states? Yeah. I think it's more the latter, which is just that we had all of these people who like 20, I mean, I'll give you the example of Tom Tiffany in Wisconsin. It's just, it's just like election denial in 2020 was so through the Republican Party. You looked at that amicus brief in the Texas lawsuit that tried to throw out the results in those five key swing states before.
the election. You had like a hundred numbers of Congress. I think that like signed on to that, including Andy Biggs and Tom Tiffany who are both running in this cycle. Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton is suing Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin, claiming they made unconstitutional changes to their laws before the 2020 election. When you deluded and changed wrongfully your laws on how to vote instead of going through the legislative process, etc. What you did is you actually watered down the votes of states that were following their laws to the letter. It was just so thoroughly embedded in the Republican Party in 2020 in front of such a stranglehold over the party. But in 2022, many of those big election denier proponents that he backed, like they did lose. So I do think it's more of a liability for these candidates. But it's also part of why Trump supports a lot of them. So what you're saying is there's a bunch of proponents of the big lie. People who have propelled the big lie narrative running for office in key states. They're not crushing it, but they're contenders. And the big lie isn't a part of their focus. But obviously what that suggests is that dormant in all of these key elections is the possibility that when these candidates lose, they themselves will deny the results of the election. Does that feel like something that is concerning voters at this point? Or are people just mad about their gas prices? People are mad about the gas prices. Trump, I mean, dude, Trump campaigned on what were his big things, like no new wars and lower prices, right? And what do we have? But also trends. And everything is trans. Everything's transgender. Everybody transgender. That's all you hear about. Trans, no wars, lower prices. And we have a war that like dude, like he was the no war candidate. Like he was running in 2016 against like, even though I've covered this so much. But like he said, he opposed Iraq. He didn't oppose Iraq. He was on record supporting it. But like he lied and said that he did. And that was a big part of his appeal was like we don't want dumb American foreign interventions. And like it's almost like we have extremely high prices on everything that he said, we'd bring down. They've gone up and we have a war. So like he's at 20% with independence. And those are the people who are going to decide the election. And being so tied in with Trump is like not a great thing in some of these states, especially in Michigan with like mic Rogers, like, you know, they're talking about his, you know, Abdul al-Saheads ties to Hassan Piker. But like, it's a much bigger liability that mic Rogers is so tied in with Trump, you know, like he's the president. We've got a lot of candidates who deny the results of the 2020 election running for office in 2026. We've got people who deny the results of 2020 election administering our elections in various key battleground states. We've got the Supreme Court fighting with lower courts about what maps they can use. We've got the president trying to redraw the rules around mail-in voting. There's probably things I haven't even mentioned. What do you think this all amounts to for president Trump? Is this about the midterms? Is this about 2028? Is this just a pastime of his? It's a pastime. It all runs through the fact that he thinks or is lying that he won in 2020, you know, and this is all just a part of it. It's all part of the same, you know, delusions about mail-in voting or fraud or this or that. It's like, you know, like Arizona, like, I'll give you an example of like Andy Biggs who's running for governor in Arizona. He was a huge, huge stop-the-steel proponent. He was like, you know, the governor could have, like, de-certified the results. And if they wanted to, that couldn't obviously happen. And it's like, that's what Trump likes. He likes candidates who, like John James, who set it up at a rally with Trump. He won Michigan three times. Like, Trump just likes that. Trump likes the candidate to lie and say that he won in 2020. It's just like a pastime of his for trying to find this fraud that doesn't, like, obviously it exists. Like, obviously people do commit voter fraud and very low, like, levels. But like, never has it been shown that it ever is on a large scale or enough to, like, change the election. Dapping said, though, it's a pastime that could have real tangible consequences in these 2026 midterms, and potentially even in the 2028 presidential election. Do we have any sense of whether the frustration people have with Donald Trump and his real policies can overcome all of the shenanigans we're seeing around our elections so far this midterm season? Um, yes. I think if we have really close races in house senate governor, that's where I think some of this stuff could come into play with people denying the election, saying they want trying to throw out ballots or this or that, you know what I mean? Like, like, election fights, like, that's where things could get into a shit show. But I do think everyone was worried Trump would deny the 2024 election, right? If you lost, but then he won. So we didn't talk about it. If like, Democrats like do so well that we're actually seeing, like, they're poll that showed shared Brown up eight points in Ohio. Like, if that poll, like, that doesn't need to be accurate. But if he's up by like four points in Ohio, like, then it's going to be a really bad year for Republicans. And I don't think we'll be talking about this if they win by like, pretty like good-sized margins or or as big of a wave as we say. And obviously, Trump can say whatever he says, but like, the results will be the results. If it's like that. Andrew K, CNN, before it was Patrick Marley from WAPO, I'm Sean Ramosperm from Box. Today, explained was made by me and Hadi Mahwagdi, and Dustin DeSoto, and Miranda Kennedy, and Gabriel Denetav, and Adiyama Spuru, and David Tadashore, more tomorrow. When it comes to AI, there is what we could do, and what we should do. What will we decide? I'm Kimberly Nevela, host of the Pondering AI podcast from SAS. If you're curious, or concerned about AI, join me as we challenge assumptions and ponder the issues together. New customer offer for initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes me slow when network is busy sea terms
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