Trump Hemorrhaging Support In Historic Fashion; His Last Ditch Effort To Stop The Blue Wave?

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And that's when you know there's a problem. And I just love how they advertise their fear of things all of the time while at the same time we're so tough. Also, we're scared of drag queens, books, Spanish people, Mexicans, and now liberal white women. I mean, pretty soon they're just going to be, it's just going to be them. Yeah. Anyway, Mark Wayne Mullin, Senator Booster Box, because he has, when he makes these tough guy messages, which I'm about to play with you, he has to stand on a box when he's acting like a tough guy. So here he is on his box, trying to be a tough guy. Now that he's in charge of I, so let's play the clip. We're there to enforce specific threats. The only reason why we would be at polling places, if there is a threat to that polling place, or we're serving, yes, or we're, or we're serving a warrant on someone that we have been actively tracking down. Okay, Paula, is this an acknowledgement by the Trump administration that the Latino support for Trump has cratered? So I do think they're still counting on the Latino vote, but I do think what we're seeing now is the heart of the entire anti-immigrant agenda, which is relying on fear and uncertainty. So it's the not knowing, it's the not knowing if one can, can expect ice, a polling locations at the soccer stadiums during the World Cup. That uncertainty is then the fear that cripples families to stay home. It's the anxiety that then tells you unconsciously that your voice at the end doesn't really matter that much, and it may not be worth it to go out and vote. And that's, that's old. Now that is, that is literally at the heart of how they wouldn't in 2024. It's the fear. It's the fear of this, you know, specific boogeyman that is always out there, not that perhaps there will be election fraud. And so that's what they rely on. Now, I think the backlash to this when it comes to Latino voters, black voters, whomever is that the only thing that is stronger than fear and uncertainty is the anger that people are literally feeling right now, whether you voted for manga or not, what you're seeing is so in your face, you know, and if you're a Latino voter, a voter for Trump, say you're from Cuba and Venezuela, in that statement that Mark when Mullen said is one that is reminiscent of what you hear in Venezuela, no, when they are not allowing you to go vote, the image of seeing the military folks roaming around your streets. And that sort of omnipresence is always there to deter you. So I think once let them start to piece together what is happening, which I think they're slowly doing, the backlash may be that they will vote to precisely prevent that from happening. So that familiarity of that will cause them to say, oh, this is why we came here. This is why we left. Because I think for a lot of the white rule voter, the familiarity of having a figure and a authoritarian figure is familiar to them. Their pastors were that way, their parents were that way. So they fall prey to authoritarian governments, even though it doesn't benefit them. But I think that's really fascinating component. The Latino vote is somebody who, they're so courted and in a lot of spaces that's treated kind of like as a monolith, and it certainly is not. I mean, as such a diverse vote, of course, I mean, the Cuban-American vote in Miami is so different from the Mexican-American vote in the Rio Grande Valley, from the Venezuelans that are all across the country, no? But I think the through line now is that we don't know. And I think it's really hard for poll sorts to acknowledge that we don't know who Latino voters are right now. In the sense that for decades, we've counted on Latinos as this community that is part of this multi-racial coalition that Democrats have always counted on. The idea was always that when this country reaches majority of the minority, that Latinos would always be at the heart of that, Barack Obama used to say that all the time. Fast forward to where we are, we now know that Latinos too are capable of voting for someone like Donald Trump, 45% voter for him, Latino men, predominantly voter for him, he won Latino men. I think we're now kind of in this uncomfortable, but good space where we understand, and I think this is being reinforced now, that Latinos are up for grabs, they're politically homeless, they have the capacity to do both, and they have to be courted, which is what typically both parties have not done. I think what you're seeing now is this deep disillusionment, which is true with both parties. You see a block that resonated so much with Trump's anti-movement sentiment, they believed him when he told them that he would protect their American dream, but I think what's happening now is very profound, which is that Trump is meeting them feel like foreigners in their own country, like strangers, and that, that to a Latino person that has been here for years, whether you're documented or not, whether you're from a mixed status family or not, in that feeling that you're this kind of perpetual foreigner, that I think is what's awakening a deeper sentiment of like, wait a second, what did I just vote for? In that awakening, I would think that, you know, this is a Supreme Court, they call it the Kavanaugh rule, that an ice officer could say, oh, that person looks illegal. Just looks. And then they can pull them over and Trump pitched this initially, even when he came down the escalator in 2015, 2016, he's only going after the bad immigrants, right? And now it turns out that a lot of these people that are in custody, the overwhelming majority of them, have zero criminal record, and I want you to speak to this notion that if somebody is here and doesn't have the correct paperwork, that they are criminal, they have been branded as criminals, and in a lot of mega world, a criminal is a word that they use to dehumanize somebody. And I see these issues as paperwork issues, not criminal offenses, so this dehumanizing their illegal, their criminals, what are the stats on who's in custody, who they pulled over? So, so the latest stats that we know from July, right, is that there was this record high arrest. They arrested over 50,000 people in the Guardian to this exceptional report where they found that the majority of those that were arrested in July and were not criminals, had absolutely no criminal background. And so, I think if you are a conservative mother in the Midwest, and you're looking at this group of people, they're telling you that they're criminals, I'll take you to the places where I've literally migrated with folks that have come to this country. In the Darren jungle, across the Darren jungle with many migrants, Cubans, Venezuelans, Haitians, we're talking about mothers and fathers that are literally leaving everything behind, caring children in their backs, crossing one of the most dangerous forests in the entire world, full of paramilitary groups, wildlife, gangs, risking their lives from a purely maternal and paternal instinct, which is to protect your child. Because and that's where I think things get very dangerous, because that idea of the American dream is so strong that you really have to believe in it so much, to risk everything, to cross that jungle. In the same way that I've met thousands of people and migrants that are living in limbo, along the southern border, literally at the hands of the Mexican cartels, in the most dangerous situations, some of the most dangerous Mexican border towns, because once again, they cannot go home, no one wants to leave, no one wants to migrate, no one wants to leave everything behind and come to this unknown land, you really need to want it. And so the majority of people that are in this country are that, no, it is people that were driven here by a dream, and that want something better for their children, that are facing death threats in their homelands, and that for decades, because this is an old story for decades, have been completely intertwined with the social fabric of this country, the majority are good people. There's only difference between me and a lot of undocumented people, my mom was a Cuban refugee, she was a Cuban exiled, it was to your point, that small paper, she was fortunate enough to have that paper, but it's a matter of luck. But to your point, when you start to label this group for so long, ingraining an American's mentality that the criminals, that the criminals, it is really easy to dehumanize someone, because it's a science, or the more you dehumanize, the more you dehumanize, the human brain starts to believe it. I do think that we're now in this kind of awful, but interesting. place where everything has been so vile and cruel that if you're a mother and you're seeing what's happening, you understand that it's wrong because you're seeing moms and children. And so I think I'm really fascinated to see how the American public will react this way. So I know from my life spent in Republican Christian Oklahoma, in white circles, how the white Republicans think about immigrant labor. I've also heard language frequently that they what you just described a mother who has a choice. I can say in this country and I'm probably going to die, get raped, my child's going to get killed. I mean it puts a child on their back and crosses the border. This is difficult for people to understand but in the south and probably in other places too, I've heard people say, well they shouldn't have broken the long come over. Yeah, we just have rules and that makes that person a criminal. And that's why this dehumanizing that Trump does, it catches on with the people who I call it recreational cruelty. They feast on this idea of recreational cruelty and seeing that, you know, you've seen the White House make this ASMR videos of chaining people up like that somehow soothing and putting them on. And I want obviously for our country to see all people and welcome immigrants. And of course we have to have rules and and the proper way to do it every country has to have that. But the dehumanization, the way that this regime has done it. And I heard like, you know, we talked about this last time we were on the Cuban lady, I will vote for Donald Trump. And then I think her nephew or somebody got deported. Yeah. Are they feeling that that spread that it was never just about illegal immigrants? It's about getting all out. I mean if you listen to Stephen Miller, it sounds like that's what he wants to do. Yeah, and I don't know that that many Latinos of voter for Trump will articulate that. I think I think what I think the conversations are based on what they're seeing in front of them. You know, he promised that it would be easier, easier for us to get by. The economy isn't getting better, you know. And he promised that he would only go for the bad guys. Well, they just got my aunt. And he promised that it was also about my American dream and why am I suddenly being racially profiled. And so I think, like I said, I think they're thinking of, you know, of how to survive every single day. So I, so I know one's really putting together the more like profound questions which are when Trump promised, now when Trump said they're taking away your American dream to your point, he was also talking about they being Latinos every Latino. And I think slowly what you're seeing, whether people understand it or not, is a Stephen Miller that is orchestrating a mass deportation. And you've talked about this all the time, closing the borders, making it incredibly hard for any legal migration to happen. And it has one goal, which is to resemble a type of America that they feel is being taken away from them that is being lost. And I do think that unconsciously a lot of Latinos are realizing that. And I think I'll take it even a step further. What I've been doing in the last couple of months reporting is that I think that the real backlash is one that we can't really grasp right now, which is that a lot of Latinos are actually letting go of that initial American dream that we were talking about. Like this idea of like, wait, is it actually worth it? Like is 20 years, 40 years of this? If you're a dreamer, how much longer can I live in limbo? If you're in a mixed status family, how much longer do I have to like hide? If you're in Florida right now and they're literally telling you that undocumented immigrants no longer can apply to schools and go into schools? Like, is it worth it? That question, I've seen it in my own reporting, is leading a lot of Latino families, sure, mixed status families to reckon with something even deeper, which is, can you find the American dream elsewhere? And there is a pattern of reverse migration. Like people are leaving, people are chuked, sure, they're being deported, but some people are choosing to self-deport. Migrants that we're going northbound are not going southbound. Is I think there's something like bigger happening, and that's always my concern. Like if we don't figure this out soon, things may change 10, 20 years from now. And I do think we're looking at like a very different type of America, and like that doesn't scare me, but it saddens me. Do we have concentration camps in this country right now? Yeah. I mean, I think if you're a child and you're in detention center right now and you're in Dilly, you're talking about still to this day, there's over 100 children that are still in Dilly. And what do we know? We know that they're not getting proper health care. They're not getting proper medication. We know that there are mothers in across detention centers that have cancer and that are pregnant. And that are living in horrible, horrible conditions. The point is the same one. It's to make it as unbearable as it possibly can be in order to force you to give up and then force you to self-deport and force you to do what they call a voluntary departure. And so yeah, I mean, you know, we can, there's only so many ways to call it, but yeah, no one deserves to live like that. I completely agree in the way that the children are being treated is so horrific. And as a person who had to live around Maga Christians my whole life and hear them talk, you know, about life and children and wanting to take away rights from women and see that they're okay with children being treated this way and children living in the conditions you've just described. Children, they're still okay, you think? They're 100% okay. They're 100% okay with it because of that dehumanization that their parents committed the crime. Their parents shouldn't have put them in this situation. Their parents were criminals. Their parents weren't good parents. And it's, if these children were blonde haired blue eyes, I don't know that they would feel that way, but this is, it goes to something that the country's been reconciling for so long. But yeah, there's a definite dehumanization for others. But this is the message that Republicans are going with in the midterms. Let's listen to it. By our count, there's almost 40 openly avowed Marxist communists. Socialists, they're all in the same camp. Marxism, you understand? And Marxism, socialism is a step to get to communism, okay? Communism Marx thought would be the utopia of the perfect society. He's absolutely deadly wrong. So I think they've kind of moved on from, they realize that dehumanizing they can keep the cult 30% is all in on that. So scaring people about drag queens and scaring people about immigrants isn't working as much. So they're going all chips in on trans athletes, which there's zero in the WNBA goose egg. And now they are on to socialism and communism, which is a failed play that Americans have done before during the McCarthy era. Does this resonate? This fear mongering to the Latino base is this, are they speaking directly to them there? So historically it has resonated, historically. It's like an old tactic, the red scare. And so why? Because a lot of Latinos are going to include like my grandfather's generation, that fled, feel they lost to those Cuba, that old generation of Cubans, of Venezuelans, of any Latino that has fled sort of the left wing authoritarian regimes of Latin America, which is a real thing. For decades, Republicans have always been doing this, which is essentially label the Democratic Party as a scary Communist Party. It's an old tactic. You hear it a lot in Miami every election cycle, and now you're hearing it everywhere. What's happening though now is, remember, in 2012 Barack Obama, in Miami, was almost the first Democratic presidential candidate to win the Cuban American vote, which was it would have been his story. He was very close to Romney. What that tells you, what we're slowly seeing is that there are the younger generations of Latinos that are further removed from that trauma of Communism, which I want to be very clear, it's a real one. And that's why I think Republicans are very brilliantly exploiting a very real political trauma, which is fleeing from authoritarianism, but they're exploiting that. And they're creating falsehoods and false narratives, because of course, Democrats and DSA, they're not Communists. I don't know. Anyway, we're not even going to get into that. But it is an old tactic that works. But you are seeing a younger generation of Latinos, including myself and the younger ones, that are further removed and that beyond that are simply looking at DSA and really resonating with some of those simple ideas that are in there. And the most interesting thing is that in a place like Miami-Dade County that is full of Latinos and Cubans of voter for Trump, it turns out that a lot of those counties have some of the highest rates of enrolled folks in Obamacare. And if you look across the country, people that are so fervently against these social welfare policies, they end up being the ones that are benefiting from it. And so I think we're kind of out of place where like, sure, this may work. But the contradictions are like sewing your face out this morning. We're talking about Donald Trump literally took out Maduro. Fine, a lot of people and a lot of Venezuelans were like applauding it. And at the same time, he still has reinforced the very same communist There's what they like to call apparatus and Minnesota under Delcio Rodriguez like she's still in power So I think people are kind of like watching and observing and trying to make sense of what they're saying So all this to say I don't think this attack and will be as powerful as it typically has been because it has worked So obviously all of the framing that I'm doing here so far in this interview is Republicans because the Republicans Despite only having a 30% approval rating are controlling the narrative Of course, they have a major major supermajority. Yeah, but I want to focus on right now What could the Democrats be saying like if I were a strategist that say number one? They said Obama was a commie and that he was coming for your guns. This a comma was a commie They said Joe Biden was a commie, but as you speak to Venezuela Trump of course he took Maduro whether you're for it against it whatever where there was good or bad Leave that there. Yeah, but now he's stealing their natural Natural resources and he wants to set up a state-run oil company right and so where are the Democrats messaging this and if I'm a Latino voter in Florida or in New York or you know down on the border wherever I'm not hearing The DSA is they're organized and they're working hard, but what is the counter message here because it always seems like the bad Messages and the fear-mogering is controlling the new cycle Yeah, I mean I think I think what you're seeing that is working is a good candidate. Yeah, you know It's like for forgot the labels for a second. Yeah And Trump was was a good candidate because because because he had the charisma. Sure. Yeah, the message liar great liar Yeah, and so I think when you look at from a taloriko to a Zoron to a Abdul Which I saw you're in truth and was amazing It is it doesn't the labels if you close your eyes the labels don't matter It's it is the message that is resonating and we side here and I've met Trump supporters That suddenly saw something in Zoron in the Rio Grande Valley I have met people that voted for Donald Trump that are now seeing something in taloriko in Missing it's the same thing which is it's it's it's the very simple underlying message of the underdog deserves to win No, the the bottom deserves to climb the status quo needs to go and Like we were talking about before everything right now is so full of fear and uncertainty and The anger is a driver, but also the hope and I think people I know sounds cheesy, but like people have not felt that and so long like the last like six years And so I think suddenly for someone if you're a Ladino in Venezuela And that is seeing what's happening in Venezuela. You're seeing administration to your point that at the beginning was talking about regime change And now it's full on like I just want your oil. Right. They're stealing right so And so when when you're feeling so hopeless and dissolution, which again, it's both parties have contributed to this and these words No, from maybe even like an Angie Nixon right like she's awesome. Yeah, and so The fact that a democratic socialist in Florida could go this far like that's pretty unprecedented Right for someone like her to like to to rise the release. It's pretty unprecedented So I think all this is a people need good candidates. It's a great answer And it's simple sometimes the best answer is the simplest one in these you know, one thing I'm seeing right now is We have What can make an argument? There's a unit party that you have the Democrats and Republicans and the ruling class of them that are servicing corporations And a lot of the democratic establishment candidates service corporations Um inside the democratic party right now most excited about these progressive candidates Like Angie Nixon who I just had on a couple days ago. She's phenomenal Obviously Zoraan Abdul al-Sayed and others that are winning their races And taking on big money, but do you think these these candidates in these messages Um, I I think they have broad appeal because they're so inclusive Donald Trump's exclusivity You have to do a lot of mental gymnastics as a woman I know his policies right are going to fuck me yeah, I know that and I'm white I am from the south um, you know, I don't know how many generations on both sides have been here But it's a long time yeah, yeah, and I know that they're coming for me. So I can't imagine as a Latino voter That you wouldn't feel that I think what the more quote-unquote progressives have to offer is is I mean is what Zoraan did right which is um Again, whether you like him or not whether you're conservative not it is it's it's a populist message that is for everybody They don't get into the nitty-gritty's and that has also been criticized not but what about trans people and about It's all baked in the same message. No, it is it is a very simple one which is all of you deserve the same thing Now you deserve to be as rich or have the same equal opportunities as everyone else And so I think People want to feel like they're part of that now like they're part of that dream like they're part of that coalition And sometimes and sure and like you can get into the back and forth as to like well Do you start do you have to start naming everyone? No, but what about trans people? No, it is it is already understood know that everyone is part of that vision And so I think I think that that kind of message of inclusivity is gaining a lot of attraction And my fear is always the same one that I that I fear every election cycle We usually feel it more in the presidential cycles, which is then there's a moment in which the grievances that were once there You know come back up again the the people that were once crying When zero tolerance was happening and everyone was like bawling and there was this moral crisis like people forget about that You know the ice razor now becoming normalized in the dehumanization is not kind of like part of our Normal routine. I'm now so used to every time I see my sister seeing the national guard like walk around so Like we're starting to like normalized from some America And so it's like what will it take for us to understand that like this isn't normal again And so that's that's where I'm like cautious about so let's let's oh now let's talk about Texas so The Hispanic vote in Texas is an absolute force yeah, and this Race is coming up, but let's pop this headline up So something extraordinary is happening in Texas Hispanic voters are shifting away from Republicans By the same historic margins they shifted to them in November 2024 The size of the shift will determine who controls congress and the country for a generation yeah so Yeah, I would love I was born in Dallas and I would love to see Texas turn Blue I mean obviously it would just be incredible But it's such a weird it's such a weird thing being an American because when you go to Texas If you go to Dallas if you go to Houston if you go to San Antonio go to El Paso It's blue if you go to Austin. It's blue. It's right and then there's so much rural parts of the country yeah that Trump motivated a lot of first time rule voters that never voted before to go out How motivated are people in Texas number one and then number two if you've seen all of this interference they're closing down polling location polling locations throwing people off vote voter rolls tell us all about the Texas race the Latina vote etc So when I think of Texas I think of The Rio Grande Valley in the it just as a as a testing ground I don't remember that Trump won 14 out of the 18 counties that are within 20 miles of a southern border Wow, it's huge. I mean he was able to to to really flip some of these Really really strong historic democratic stronghold I spent so much time there four years ago during the midterms Is of that rightward shift the Chuck Roke shot is talking about like I saw it very vividly And someone like might have floated. It's like very mega a member In the Rio Grande Valley and someone like her was able to to win, no if That was historic However, I'll tell you a conversation that I had just yesterday with a pastor pastor long Salis was in the Rio Grande Valley in Edinburgh And she told me something really interesting which is She's one of the first people that has named what's happening a crisis We talked about a border crisis all the time we talked about this migrant invasion crisis But she said these mass deportations are creating a crisis in the Rio Grande Valley. Why it's decimated the local economy And people are so scared to go to work People are not turning to their hospitals, but they're going inside these churches She explains to me to get like basic healthcare because they're so scared to go outside And she said the older generation may not be voting But all of these young kids that for the last two years were maybe empathetic Maybe didn't vote in 2024. She's she told me they're angry. They're gonna vote Is I think that's kind of what we're seeing coupled with good candidates. You have Bobby Bullido Pejano, Texas singer. He has charm. He's going against Monigay La Cruz who's a super mega woman Again, objectively like there's something happening there. Tallarigo. He said it himself. He said Um, hope is a dangerous thing. He's absolutely right People are feeling hope for the first time in a long time as everything around them is kind of like crumbling Know everything that Trump promised in the Rio Grande Valley and I saw it very vividly. It's not happening Is I think when you couple the bad stuff the crisis with the hope with set looks but only something like Bui Puli in the charm, like something different may happen. - And I do think you've mentioned this now, like two or three times in this interview, and it's, it ranks through every single time you say it, anger, driving people to the polls, is something that is universal as an American right now. The universal anger that I think we all feel, and I would even make an argument that even a white rule, triple trumper, triple trumper feels some anger to an extent, because this government has not delivered materially for anybody except for Donald Trump, his sons, you know, some cabinet members. CNN's most recent poll on Trump's support among Hispanic men is this, pop this up. Trump net approval with Hispanic men falls to a, falls a staggering 51 points from plus 10 and early 2025 to minus 41. I hope, hope is a very dangerous thing, and it's hard to consume, hope be 'em right now, but I want to, but I just get so fearful, because I remember a lot of the polls, I remember, you remember the one in Iowa in 2024 that showed Kamala up, like Apple Digits, and I was like, oh, sometimes I think there's some unknown, unpollable entity out in the United States of America. - Yeah. - That is envelops anger in them, of them not receiving, and the Republican Party for very angry people offers that recreational cruelty to them as an exchange. You may be angry, but watch what we're doing, watch us punish these people, and I don't know if that polls, but what do you, so I think what worked really well in 2024 were all the like trans attacks, and I think Latino men really resonated with that, because I think there was something that made them deeply uncomfortable around this like, changing world and changing gender norms, and here you had Stephen Miller and Donald Trump saying, and they targeted a lot of Spanish language, Latino men, I saw it everywhere in Arizona and Nevada, where they were like, no, no, no, this is too much, like you're in control. And now, I think this drive towards Trump that I think was very much based on like insecurity, and I'm perhaps a really, a very real insecurity of like, you know, what do you do with this like, changing America? Like how can I feel like a man again? And at the end of the day, that material, you know, what people were grasping for, which was, give me the money so I can help my family. Let me build the thing that I wanna build. Whatever men do, I'm like, I'm like, I don't know, I don't know, how does one feel like a man like, I don't know, but like, like, the material, whatever it was, that like, people or men needed to feel secure, like, that's not even there. And so I think you still see like, the Trump world, trying to label Taylor Ego like as someone that has three genders, whatever they do all the time. Yeah, no, no, you hear this, I'm sorry, yeah. Yeah, like, oh, he's, he's, he's three gendered, he's a trans woman, like, and then they're like, oh, and he has a hot girlfriend. And it's like, wiggling, yeah. You know, I had peppermint, do you know peppermint is? No. She is a trans woman, I had her on the podcast, and she had the best come back to all of this. She said, trans people have kitchen tables too. Yeah, yeah. I thought it was some of the best political strategy I'd ever heard. And it's a great way to combat a lot of the transphobia and homophobia to say, you might not get it, and you might not understand it, but they have the same kitchen table issues that you do. And also exposure. Like, I am, you know, a gay reporter that has to go into these spaces, I've walked into so many, like evangelical churches. Once they touch me, I'm like, oh, you're okay. It's so, everything is so scary. Did they ever try to pray over you? All the time. Oh my God, no, no, no, no. And you've created you for conversion therapy? It hasn't been as extreme as that, but like, I know that a lot of people are like, oh, we can turn her back for sure. But all this to say, like, everything is so scary online, everything is so scary as a narrative. But the same thing, whether you're an immigrant, you're a trans person, a lesbian. Like, when you're exposed to the human self, things become very, I mean, human and real. In the same way that when I've met, like we talked about last time, when I've met like extreme, mega men, they seem so scary from afar. But when I meet them in front, I'm like, whoa. Like, you're, like, I can work with this. Like, I can deconstruct you as a person. Yeah. And so what I'm saying is like, you need that exposure. And some people don't get to have that. But when it happens, it's, you know, there is some hope. And obviously, you know, trans people, LGBTQ people exist in every facet, every place in the world. But historically, I think because Latino people are more religious, the homophobia is something that works, is this an exchange? Like, you know, they say that I think it was W.E. Dubois that said, you know, the exchange is for real white people. Like, we're not really going to deliver for you, but you can still, we're still going to say that you're better than these black people. Is that the exchange to Latinos with marginalizing trans people? We're not really going to deliver for you, but we're going to elevate you above these trans people. I mean, I think it, it always is, we have such a complicated history of colonization. Like, such-- and that is so deeply ingrained in us, right? Like, coming from countries and from histories where the Spaniards didn't just create caste systems, right? Which explains a lot of the colors and that we deal with in Latin America. But a Spanish system that also ingrained these very deep and profound gender norms were literally when the Spaniards started to conquer around the continent and they saw two spirited people, or indigenous folks, and people were murdered because they were too feminine or not. And so these are, generationally, these are things that we grow up with. You don't want to be that person. And so I think that is what a Trump world and the right knows how to leverage really well. No, they know how to push the moral panic button that is a very familiar one from a lot of the countries that we come from. But I still do deeply, deeply believe in our ability to be compassionate and people, deeply, right? And so I believe in everyone's ability to do that. And I think all it takes is explaining where it gets complicated is that you know this very well. When we migrate to this country, some of the first stops end up being the churches. For a lot of people. And if you're talking about Texas, if you go throughout the Valley and the border, some of the first stops then end up being evangelical churches. And so a lot of these kind of biases that we hold are then weaponized by politicians and some pastors that have met that start to kind of like really exploit those biases. And it becomes a fight of good versus evil. Oh yeah, as you know. Yeah. And so yeah, so we're kind of in that like perfect little storm. But yeah, people are good, I believe that. Okay, let's talk about Cubans that are living in Florida are now being deported to Africa. I just want to close on this. I sent them away under a controversial policy without knowing where they were going or what would happen next. So this is something that just seems like it's an extra layer of cruelty. Like let's, you know, we stabbed them, let's get the lemon juice in the salt and just really show people. Yeah. How fucking mean we can be for sport. Yeah. That's just being mean for sport right there. So Cubans typically lean Republican. And Raphael, Ted Cruz, we were talking about earlier. Cuban, Lil Marco, Cuban, Cuban. And of course Cubans are not a monolith. But how does this shit resonate in Florida? I mean, this is so diabolical. It is. And the thing is this is perhaps the first time in decades where Cubans as a voting block have felt like immigrants, right? The Cuban and the Cuban American has always had a very specific pathway in this country. Now, the line from being an exile or undocumented to residents, to citizenship has always been a straighter line than any other sort of Latino in this country. It's a way more privileged experience. It is more likely for Cubans to kind of be untouched by the immigration system to never see ice knocking on your door until now. That has completely changed. Now, if you go to Miami, I mean, people aren't talking about this. But Miami has one of the highest rates of ice arrests in the country, in the country. It's just very silent, very silent. We don't talk about it. But those 287G agreements between the local police and ICE are happening in Miami all the time. So all this to say, the very Cuban American voter, for the first time, you're seeing things that you're not used to seeing. You're not untouched anymore. At least you know someone that has been deported, that has been detained, that has been an alligator alcatraz. And not only are they sending people to Africa, but they're doing something that selfishly for a Cuban is even worse. They're sending them back to the very same communist country that you fled from. And that is, like, I have been Cubans that have been deported to Cuba. Now, the very same quote-unquote country that Trump is allegedly trying to save Cubans from. People are being sent back to Cuba. And so, again, this is, it's like how much you can and see these things. anymore. And so will the Cuban American vote, is it more fractured? I think so. Does that mean that they will vote for a Democrat? I'm not sure, because once again, that communist messaging is kind of there, but it's not as solid as it was. What do you know what happens to these people, these Cubans that are being sent to Africa? Does the paper trail just stop? I mean, what people are describing is no man's land, and that's taking place everywhere. No, you're your loss. There's no familiar resemblance of anything. And it's a matter of like, how do you get back home? But more than anything, what is home? What is home? Where do you go back to? If you can't go back to Cuba, you can't go back to the United States. What is home? Or is the United States paying these countries to take these people? I believe so. I think there's I think there's been agreements in the same way that there have been with Mexico. And there are agreements in the same way that there was what it's all about though, and to deport people to these third countries. But to your point, it's cruel. It sends a message. And I think that there's a larger humanitarian crisis that's happening, which is that there are thousands of people. Even if you go to Cancun, where I just spend a lot of time there, there are literally thousands of people that have been deported, that are living in limbo, trying to ask the question, so what does a homeland mean? And just to kind of wrap it up, they're like the flip side of that question. It's a really brutal cruel question. The flip side is that if generations from now, the answer to that question is, well, the American dream is no longer it. So what is it? That path can lead to kind of new dreams, and new experiences, and new migration patterns, and your reverse migration patterns. And that I'm also seeing, or that people, sure, have been forced out, but they're finding something elsewhere. And I think it's important. I think the Democrats are feeling to message that a part of our success as a country is because of immigration. A part of our economic recovery from COVID, as mad as everybody was and turned that on Biden, the recovery, the reason we recovered economically, so quickly was because of immigration, it created jobs. And I want to ask you, this is just something I'm kind of fascinated in. You may or may not know about it. Peter Teal is down in Argentina. And at first, I thought he fled because he was like, oh, you know, the Democrats are going to win, blah, blah. Well, I started reading into it, Paula. And he, you're probably familiar, he tried to set up his own government in Honduras. And then that fell by the wayside. But now he's down here in Argentina. The Argentinians are protesting outside of his house. Are they? Yes, it's great stuff. I think he's trying to set up like his techno-fascist thing. It makes sense because there's the moments in that they're seeing is that there's a right-ward shift happening in Latin America, from melee in Argentina to Bogele and Salvador to now Costa Rica. Like there is a rise in authoritarianism. And so there is there they are creating the environment for this to happen there. Are they are the citizens experiencing the same pushback? Is the pushback also rising? It's so fascinating because one of the most popular figures in Latin America is nae Bogele. Like Salvadorians and Latin Americans love Bogele. Have tradition love Bogele. Maybe that support is maybe you're seeing some cracks now. But I think Trump learned so much from those figures because because there's a moment in which the like Cuban consciousness has to kind of figure out what it wants more. What are you willing to give up in favor of your security? And so that was Bogele's strategy, right? It was like well you can give up some of your civil rights but I'm going to clean up the streets and you're not going to see gangs anymore. And it worked and he is beloved and people love Bogele. But it's a real phenomenon that has to be studied and is being studied which is like at what point does the authoritarian figure resonate? And Latin America has a really complicated history of the rise of authoritarianism that people have been conditioned to believe that they need them in order to feel safe. And that in a way is Trump. In my book that's coming out. I can't wait. I make the link of authoritarian religions. Yeah. Authoritarian parents. And then that jump to thinking you need Trump. You need it. They call him daddy. Do you think Catholicism can be authoritarian? Latino parenting can be authoritarian. And then that it sets you up to wear this abuse because what authoritarians do is abusive. It is abuse. And that abuse feels comfortable because it's all you know. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's I mean I but but I think it is a I think even to give you further the United States and Latin America conditioned a lot of Latin Americans to believe that there were certain certain authoritarian figures that were needed. The same way that we supported Binochet or that we supported in you know in El Salvador during the Civil War we supported the like right wing military figures in the right like there is there's a history of American imperialism totally conditioned so many of us to believe that certain right wing authoritarian figures were needed in order to shoo away those like crazy communists. And in a way in a lot of people believed it. And now when you come to an America where you have a US government that is telling you everything that you fled from is happening here. Those crazy leftists are becoming communists. Those criminals are around you. You need me too. And so I do think there's there's a lot of that happening which is the wagele effect and which at the beginning was was Trump. But a Trump was like no no no things are dirty things are full of crime things are full of you know criminals like you need a strong man figure. And the strong man figure does resonate with Latin Americans at times. Yeah. I think that probably bouquet le what happens is I think that I like in the strong man's arc to that of a drug addict. So they take and then this is enough of a hit to get a high but then they have to take more to get a new high. Right. And they're tolerance. And so as their tolerance like look at Trump he was never interested in military. And he wanted to have that Barack Obama moment. He sat and watched and he watched them go in and get Maduro and he's like dang it. I got a whole military. This is incredible. And so he's like yeah. And then y'all who you want me to go into Iran? I can't do that. No problem. Right. And they just escalate like a like a junkie. And so eventually he you know he's clean the streets up and that's one fix. But he's going to want more and more because it's just the nature of the narcissism and the dehumanizing and the sociopathic that guy has that eventually he's going to go and then it's like oh god this guy fucked us. Yeah. And it's like the signs were there. Yeah. But you know anyway. How I could talk to you forever. I love it. Thank you so much for coming on. Of course. Imagine setting your makeup then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new groupy setting mist from Mabelie, New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours with flexible all day comfy grip. No tightness. No stickiness. No residue. Just plump. Dewey hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Try new groupy setting mist from Mabelie, New York. Maybe it's Mabelie.