Trump DOJ Official Accused of Threatening to CHOKE His Intern

Hey everyone, it's me Sam Stein managing out of the bulwark and I'm joined by Will Summary. It is not mega Mondays. It's not a trio. We don't have Tim. But an article came across the transum that was so delicious, so richly reported, so hilarious that we felt like we wanted to just dissect it for you. Before we get to that, a few programming notes. Sunday at around 830 or so, we're going to be doing a basic kind of town hallish type thing Q&A for our members. You got to be Bullwark subscriber. You can join us live to discuss what's going to happen in the midterms on Tuesday. We're going to have all reporters and some of the editors on. We'll take questions, we'll go through it. Then on Tuesday night, we're going to be doing live for everybody, starting at 7 p.m. Join us. We're going to be taking in the election results with you all. I'm going to stay up pretty damn late. I'm not going to wait for Alaska, but we're going to go late. So join us there live. All right, Will. So this article is in Harvard Crimson, college paper for Harvard, it is called abusing and threatening and harassing inside the collapse of Leo Tarell's DOJ anti-Semitism task force. Leo Tarell is the Chief Justice Prime Minister who is chairing the task force to combat anti-Semitism. But prior to that, he was a prominent Fox News personality. That was a bit about Tarell, and then we're just going to go through this entire story. Yeah, Leo Tarell is kind of a crazy guy even before this. I mean, I'm excited we're talking about this. This is the best article I've ever read. There's so much to get into here. Ever. So good job, Marvin Crimson. Basically, Leo was a talk radio host or initially, interestingly, from the left in the 90s. And then he had a lot of personal problems pile up. He had Republicans done reporting on this. He had $400,000 in federal tax leans in the sort of George W. Bush administration. He has been sued for legal malpractice for like some comical like bumbling where he would settle a case for like $1,000 as a client was like, what are you doing? And so, but sort of in the the first Trump era, he's sort of refashioned himself as this like big Trump guy. And so now in this administration, he is sort of the anti-Semitism czar. He runs the task force on anti-Semitism and this story, you might not have heard much from that task force. And this story illustrates why. All right, we're going to do something kind of different here. We're just going to go through this story. We're going to, because there's again, I have to emphasize this, there are so many stories within the story that my job was kind of on the on the floor of various points. And then I was giggling to myself because it's so absurd. So we're going to go through this and we're just going to talk about these anecdotes. And if you get bored, you could just sign off. But I think you're going to like this. And the thing to point out here is the reason the Harvard Crimson is writing about this is number one, you know, this task force was involved in suing Harvard. But also there was a Harvard student who came back from working on this task force. And was clearly like, this is the craziest thing I've ever experienced. The main source of this is a guy named Tejas Billa who was set to graduate in 2028. He actually apparently was a editor at the Harvard Crimson. So he was just like, I'm going to go spill the beans on Leo here. So this is literally the lead sentence of the story. This gives you a sense of how the story starts out. It's quite the lead. On September 16th, Leo J. Tarell threatened to choke a justice department intern with a computer charger. That's the first sentence of the story it goes on. For nearly an hour, Tarell demanded to know why Tejas Billa had left his charger at home. He accused Billa of lying about where it was and threatened to fire him. According to Billa and another intern who witnessed the exchange, then they said Tarell told Billa that if he brought the charge to work the next day, he would choke him with it. I'll stop there. Has that ever happened to you, Will? No, not even in this office. I mean, it's a little unclear why Leo was supposedly so fired up about it. Like, maybe this guy's computer was dead and he's like, I don't have my charger. I left it at home. But yeah, I mean, the idea that sort of paints this image of this anti-Semitism task force is this weird like, cloistered operation and Leo's just like terrorizing a handful of interns. Yeah, Billa went to a person, a woman who manages the office of the associate attorney general to report happened. She was like, yeah, it's been, he's, her quote to him was, he's been terrible, hasn't he? So apparently this was a pattern of behavior. I should note, Tarell denied threatening to fire or choke Billa, but Billa did resign nine days after this incident happened. Okay, let's go to the next day and a good. This one's titled report interns to the FBI. It begins with a quote, quote, I'll destroy your career was another one of the lines Tarell used if we were caught talking to anyone outside of the office or going anywhere that he did not specify according to Billa. Tarell also threatened to have Billa arrested by the FBI for stealing government property after Billa took home notes that Tarell himself had told him to take home. It's crazy. I mean, this is like this weird operation. It's almost like this clown show that Leo because he loves Trump, he got some kind of sinecure in the administration, but no one takes it seriously. It's stocked with undergraduates, like basically no actual staff. And Leo is like very like, he doesn't want anyone talking to anyone out, you know, in the broader justice department. There's a point where he screams at someone and says, I'll destroy, well, he says, I just, I'll destroy your career. One of the people who got in trouble was talking to a gardener. So they were just like, oh, hey, how's it going? And Leo was like, what the hell are you doing talking to someone outside of my circle? All right. Next day I looked at calling a woman in the office a cheerleader. All right. When a female intern came to work visibly upset about a romantic relationship, this is actually not funny. Tarell asked the other interns to leave his office so he could counsel her according to Billa and two interns who heard about the incident shortly after. She later told colleagues that Tarell had said she was, quote, worth more than the man she had been seeing. Billa and another intern were called. One day on the day of the charger threat, again, to remind you, this was Tarell threatening to choke Billa with this computer charger. Tarell took looked at another intern up and down and called her Miss cheerleader according to Billa and the intern. Tarell wrote in a statement that the intern had been wearing a sweater, quote, that looked like a cheerleading uniform. But Billa and the intern said that Tarell had a dress that she was wearing a dress. So just a little bit of creepin on the side. It's striking that that is is kind of like a side anecdote about what's going wrong in this office. Leo also says he's getting upset with this guy who didn't bring his charger. And he's like, this is why I only hire women. I mean, this weird little circus off to the side. Just to jump around and it does, we get another anecdote involving the same intern who Tarell counseled about her failing relationship. At the end of August, the female intern offered to accompany Tarell to a Republican Jewish coalition summit in Las Vegas because her sister would be in the area according to a text message shared with the crimson by Tarell. So he shared the text message. But the intern became reluctant to go after her sister cancelled her travel plans and flight cost rose. Billa and another intern said Tarell ultimately persuaded her to spend $1,200 to join him. I feel bad. You should not. We could go to the sphere. >> Yeah, spend Vegas with me. >> Spend your own money to come with me is like not. >> Go to Vegas with Leo Tarell. We'll hit the tables. I'll threaten to choke you maybe. All right. This a lot of the centers on the national tour that Leo Tarell wanted to have. So let's back up a little bit. Can you talk a little bit about this tour? >> Yeah. So Leo, according to this story, envisioned a Leo Tarell, a barnstormer across America talking about anti-Semitism. It says a 15 city swing through battleground districts. I had of the midterms. He imagined booking Justin Bieber, Nicki Minaj, Jerry Seinfeld, Adam Sandler. >> Wait, Jaylen Brunson's on the list, too. He thought he could get Jaylen Brunson. Number one, I mean, this is so crazy. He's imagining filling arenas. They all want to see Leo. And like, why would any of these, I guess you could probably get Nicki Minaj, but like, why would these others participate in this at all? It's not explained. >> Well, it's because they're Jewish and then Jaylen Brunson is married to a Jewish woman. So Justin Bieber's Jewish? >> Justin Bieber Jewish. >> No, he's not Jewish. >> Maybe he'd help, but maybe he's personal friends with Leo. But I mean, I gotta say, Leo is a detier conservative celebrity. The idea that all these people are just gonna want to see Leo is crazy. It's also crazy that he's specifically saying, we gotta get out there and help the Republicans ahead of the midterms. This is a guy in the Justice Department saying this. >> I know, but we're not, you know, we're, well, past that. Anyways, they wanted to do a 15-day swing through battleground districts ahead of the midterms. The tour has held just one event thus far on October 14th as it was gathering at a synagogue in Southfield, Michigan with Torella as the keynote speaker. No other events have been publicized. So the tour is not going particularly well. And the subtext here is that Leo is very upset that the tour is not going well at all. And he's been trying desperately to get people to be part of this tour. He's talked about various Jewish groups. He's insulted them for not participating in the tour. And he's lashed out at his poor interns for not getting the tour up and running. When it makes no sense to do this tour whatsoever, just like focus on the task. He has beef with Harmeet Dylan. And I'm not entirely sure why. >> Well, because Harmeet Dylan seems to be tasked with with Greg and Leo. So basically, Harmeet Dylan is the head of the DOJ Civil Rights Division. And she's kind of a crazy person in her own, very conservative activist prior to taking this role. But she is clashed with Leo because she seems to be, I think, more competent and sort of saying, hey, well, I don't know Leo. I don't know if you can do that. Maybe we don't know where she stands on the arena tour. But I have after magic, she'd probably be opposed. And so he calls her like the biggest Jew hater. And he does this scheme where he starts leaking according to these interns to New York Times reporter Glen Thrush, he's crafting what he thinks is gonna be like the ultimate harming Dylan destroyer. And so to do that, of course he has to bring all his interns in, typically, you know, in bureaucratic infighting, if you're leaking to the New York Times, you don't get like a panel of interns to help you out. But that's what Leo did. - Yeah, apparently he had three interns sit in on his call to Glen as he was calling him on background. So for people who don't understand, Leo's talking to Glen. He doesn't want to be identified. It's supposed to be secretive so that his identity doesn't spill. But he forgets that he puts interns in the room with him as he's having this conversation and then they then spill the beans to the crimson. But the best part of this, and again, I'm jumping around a little bit here is that I'll just read it. The Times article, which described a bit of fear between Dylan and Leo Terrell over settlement negotiations with elite universities and the respective Fox news appearances ran on August 31st. Terrell was eager to see it. On August 29th, he texted Billah that the article was expected that night and he asked for a gift link because he did not have a time subscription. He texted Billah again early the next morning to say he still had not seen it. When Billah eventually sent a gift link to the group chat, Terrell was disappointed. He wrote back that he had quite expected more according to the text messages reviewed by the crimson. Terrell denied sending the message. They have the messages, man. It is truly crazy that he put in writing like, "Hey, do you have the big story I leaked for? Send it on over. I can't spring for a subscription." But if you're bothered to subscribe, help me get around the paywall, please. You know, this is interesting. This is kind of a classic source expectation that they think a news article is going to, you know, accomplish all their career goals. And, you know, this is all accurate. Glenn Thresh is, you know, understandably acting as reporters. Like, great, this guy has an axe to grind. I'll use him to learn what I need from my story to happen. But, you know, I'm not carrying his water here. And then obviously Leo, you know, he brought the whole team in. This was his brainchild and it obviously blew up. It's not the greatest office environment and that might be because Terrell barely put in any effort to actually hire people. According to the piece, this is how the intern application process worked. There was no formal application process. Instead, the Israel on campus coalition, a pro-Israel campus organization founded in 2002, sent a list of resumes to Terrell and Sarah Golbeck Goldman, a career justice department attorney, who served as his chief of staff. The ICC, Denom Response Request for comment. In mid June, about two weeks before the internships were scheduled to begin, Terrell interviewed the applicants over Zoom. The call lasted 15 to 20 minutes and Terrell offered the intern's jobs on the spot. They said Terrell did most of the talking. Billy recalled, at least nine students accepted the offer, but two did not join the team, two interns said. One stayed home for personal reasons while Terrell withdrew the offer. At the last minute, after she said, she would have to join two weeks late. The remaining seven signed voluntary agreements, co-signed by representatives of the universities, committing them to a summer at the justice department without pay. Do you think there's a bit of a shakedown aspect here where these universities are so terrified of Leo's task force? And then they say, "Hey, give us these kids as volunteers." And they go, "Oh my gosh, absolutely." Yeah, that hadn't really occurred to me where it's just sort of like, or maybe they want to get in his good graces, so they just feed in people and they're like, "You should take this, get in there." It doesn't strike me as the most comprehensive screening process, a 15 to 20 minute Zoom call, and then just being like, "You sound good." We're good, come on board, like, you know? Sounds good to me. All right, on the intern's still. By late June, Terrell's immediate staff consisted of just two people, Terrell and Gollaback Gollman. Within a week of the intern's arrival, Gollaback Gollman left her for a job at the Brandeis Center for Human Rights on her law. That left Terrell and a seven student interns with no career supervising their work in his office. It's just him and seven interns. Well, it's sort of, it's in this idea that like, then they start borrowing lawyers from HHS, who are like RFK's people and they're somehow involved. It is, you know, obviously this office had some problems. You don't want to be threatening to choke the interns. You don't want to be harassing them. But do you think that they felt a little affection for Leo, kind of like their loser boss, their bureaucratic loser here, who's just like, I'm stuck with the interns, Harvey Dillon, who's running circles around me. I can't do anything. I really, I'm dying to know what the office looked like. Was it like just like one, like one desk, and they're all hung around and they stuffed him in the worst location. And he's like, hey, let's, let's leak to Glenn Thresh. I think we can get out of here. It gets worse. Billah and two interns said they worked from about 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. most days. Nice. I'm not a mathematician, but that's, that's a five hour day. That's a five, that's a five hour day. Imagine that being your day. You're like, we need you to combat anti-semitism. Yeah, but I'm only going to do it between 10 and 3. For the first several weeks, Tarell would hand out assignments. And then some of the interns back into his office to dissect what they had produced, often for several hours. Tarell disputed this characterization. It's the best line in the Philippines. He liked to lecture, they said, and can dwell on a social media post for hours on end. [LAUGHS] You know, a point about their work life, because it was so focused on the tour. And so the intern said they would get these complaints about pure hate crimes, where people would say, here's an anti-semitic incident to investigate. And Leo would say, don't worry about it. We got to focus on my Justin Bieber level tour. That's a level tour. But let's not, let's not just walk away from him dwelling. It's not plural. This is a social media post for hours. Like, are they talking about the post he's going to make, or are they talking about a post to bat him, or just like, a random tweet that he sees, that he's just like, I need a couple of hours to go over this. I have to ruminate over this. This Benny Johnson video, all right. Well, there's not that many posts about Leo Tarell. So you can afford to take that much time on each one. It gets worse. It's the same anecdote. Tarell told the interns that he and Golabeck Goldman had once gone 10 days without speaking. An illustration, he suggested, of how he operated. All right. So just to unpack this, for a brief period of time, there's two people in his office, him and Golabeck Goldman, as well as nine interns, or maybe seven, because two didn't accept the offer. The other, the only person who's not an intern, he went 10 days without speaking to that person. That's insane. The office vibes must have been horrifying. And then he's just sitting there looking at a social media post for several hours, just being like, dammit. No, I mean, it's crazy. Everything about this office, and it's striking that these kids who are seemingly like Republican operatives in the making are, we're so willing to leak about it. Yeah. Well, in terms of actual wins, the Tories has been a disaster, obviously, but the effort to combat anti-Semitism on campuses has also not gone particularly well. The Justice Department had sued Harvard, accusing it of showing, quite deliberate, and difference to anti-Semitism on campus. But on August 13th, the federal judge threw out that suit. Now, this is according to Crimson. When an intern told Tarell about the ruling, he erupted, bill into interns recalled. One said they had never seen him angrier. Quote, "I am so fucking pissed." An intern recalled Tarell saying, "Tarell did not deny being frustrated by the lawsuits dismissal." Tarell told the interns that the Justice Department had committed malpractice. Suggested Harvard could bring a counter suit and accused Dylan and her team of undermining the lawsuit by waiting too long to file. OK, woo. All right, we talked about the gif link for the times. We talked about the trip to Vegas. Then it gets even creepier, because this happened. As of September, the interns had not been paid. By mid-September, Tarell was repeatedly telling the interns their work was terrible, and that he wanted to fire them, according to Billah. His treatment of Billah grew harsher. Billah and another intern said, because Billah's connection too Harvard. Around that time, the intern's called Golabek Goldman, the former chief of staff she had left by then, to describe Tarell's conduct. She offered a bleak assessment, quote, "Don't expect to get paid, and don't expect there to be a tour." Golabek Goldman told them. Golabek, I think they had figured it out by that point in time. By the end of September, the intern said they could no longer continue working under Tarell. One by one, they stopped working for him. It made plans to leave. Before the last intern departed the week of October 4, Tarell offered to pay him $250 per week, stipend, quote, "under the table." If he could continue working, the intern did not accept. Tarell did not deny extending the offer. He wrote in the statement that he was, quote, "Looking for official ways to compensate interns like a stipend or grant given the DOJ's very slow hiring process." So here's Old Leo Tarell, offer some cash payment under the table. That's what, $250 a week. So that works out to what, $52 grand? $52 grand, home of $52, time of $250. Jesus Christ, that's $13,000 a year, buddy. I was gonna say, "Oh, $52 grand, that's not too bad for an intern." That's a bad for an intern, that's $13,000 a year, folks. Yeah, I mean, it, it, one imagines him just kind of opening his wallet and being Like, look, I really need you to stay, man. Like, here's 250. - You think he did Vemma or is it just straight cash? - I think a guy like that, I think straight cash. I don't know if he doesn't want enough to be on Venmo, yeah. - But he didn't offer to pay for this poor girl's trip to fucking Vegas for $1,000 to $1,000, he made her pay herself. Keeping on. I hope folks are still entertained by this. To roll out the task force on paper, but civil rights attorneys assigned to its anti-Semitism investigations operated under the supervision of the Department of Health and Human Services, as well noted. By the time the interns arrived, the task force cross-agency operations were largely separate from Troll's Own Office. Troll worked on the ground floor of the Justice Department's headquarters while others in his reporting chain worked on the fifth floor. The interns said they did not witness him meeting with officials from the agency all summer, and rarely witnessed him communicating with other justice department officials. So now I guess the answers are questions by where they tucked him away in some, you know, rinky-ding office and ignored him. The answer is yes. - Yeah, we have a gift shop here, you know, and we'll put you. I mean, it sounds like, I mean, it's reading between the lines. It seems like sort of like they split the office in two and took anyone who was actually doing legal stuff or like real work. They put them in a separate office, just separate from Leo, and then they put him in the interns. They're like, look, you can get the interns to plan the tour. - Yeah, that's basically it. Basically like, this is not serious. This is not a serious man. Here's seven interns. Don't fuck it up, and he just fucked it up and threatened to choke him with computer chords. Troll was supposed to check in with the associate attorney general Stanley Woodward, and people might know the name because he's arguing all these cases every two weeks. But he repeatedly postponed the meeting, spill it in the two other interns or call it. One interviewer called watching the missed meetings with Woodward pile up on his calendar. Billis said the delays were deliberate. Troll told him the 15 city torches are more of his attention in the meetings with Woodward did. Quote, he's like, this is gonna be big. This is gonna be historic. This has never been done before, Billis recalled. The specific words he would use to talk about his work is he would say that he's keeping Stanley in the dark. Let's go back to this is gonna be historic. It would not be historic at all. Even if even in like the great imaginations, like if he had reached those heights, heading out there with Bieber and Brunson to talk about anti-Semitism, I just don't see it as history-making. - It would be unprecedented. I think that would be, but I think the idea that this would be this landmark thing I would have all this impact, I think you're right. It is also funny that he's imagining this as like very much a political thing. We're hitting the, we're basically trying to reading through the line between the lines. It seems like, you know, when Jewish voters in these battleground states. And so the idea that like Jerry Seinfeld and Jalen Brunson would sign up for this political tour, I mean, it would be surprising, certainly. - I'd be shocked. You imagine Jerry Seinfeld just like hit and up random synagogues with Leo Tarell being like, gotta watch out for the, you know, Jew haters out there. Leo has thoughts on Republican officials. It doesn't like a lot of them, it looks like. Tarell boasted about his connections elsewhere in the administration. He told the interns he could call in favors with cabinet officials, claiming he'd close with FBI Director of Cash Patel, Attorney General Todd Blanche and Secretary of State Mark Rubio, among others. Tattas ties to Rubio in particular and said he would support Rubio in a 2028 Republican presidential primary. But if Vice President JD Van secured the nomination instead to intern through calls for all saying, he would leave the Republican party. Oh, okay. I will say Tarell denied, did deny that he didn't like JD, but I don't think it brings Tritamy. His favorite insult they said was Jew Hater. A label he applied to administration officials, Jewish Democrats and others who questioned his approach. He called Education Secretary Linda McMahon, a Jew Hater, said Van surround himself with Jew haters, called as far of Boss Dillon, the world's greatest Jew Hater, according to the interns. At one point, Billah said Tarell even called Mary and Adelson, a pro-Israel philanthropist and one of the largest donors to Trump's 2024 re-election campaign, a Jew Hater. Yeah, I have a theory about this. So when you got this position, I thought this is odd. I don't think of Leo Tarell as someone who's so specifically on anti-Semitism, like Mark Levin or someone who got this while it makes sense to me. But I feel like at some point, this is a guy who I think it's fair to say is a bit of an opportunist. I think I mentioned he was previously a liberal talk radio host. He's had these financial issues. I feel like at some point, he kind of stumbled upon this idea that anti-Semitism is just this great cudgel in the Republican Party. And that's why he's just like, you know, if I'm the anti-Semitism guy, I can go on a huge tour. And I can, you know, I, I should be able to do anything. And if I just call people, Jew haters, you know, that'll work for me. So I mean, look at this, you know, this is odd. He's got the office in premature to back him up, right? He's the czar. So he can, he can issue these degrees. He issues the, you are an anti-Semitism. Certificate. Yeah, Marian Adelson of all people is a Jewator. I mean, that's wild stuff. All right, so the tour is a disaster. It's not happening. But like, Leo starts really flipping out when he's law, he can't get, he can't score a side and fail. He can't get Bieber, he can't get Brunson. He starts looking down lists for other sponsors here, you know, kind of raining his ambitions a little bit. So he tries to land two Jewish organizations as tour sponsors and they both walk away. The Jewish Federation meeting, Jewish Federation is one of these groups, went badly from the start. Federation officials were wary of Torrell's appetite for publicly calling out local officials who were closely with their affiliates and according to Bill, Torrell started shouting when the CEO of the Jewish Federation air finger hut, raised the concern. The Federation says the account is holy and accurate. I should note that. The other organization is called the World Jewish Congress. That looked more promising at first. A mid-August meeting with the World Jewish Congress, Vice President went well enough that Torrell fired off 20 plus late-night texts to interns laying out a grand plan. These are college kids and he's just like, oh, he says leave it out. - Every stop would have merchandise samples, band music, a green room with refreshments and a dedicated content creator. He also wanted congressional candidates and cabinet level officials to attend. And then he says, okay, if a cabinet secretary can't appear, we need a high level sub-gabbitant member. - All right, the vision didn't last long. During a second meeting involving Torrell Billa and the World Jewish Congress in early September, WJC representatives said they didn't think the tour was feasible in 2026. Billa recalled they were being asked to bankroll the entire tour and were more interested in panel conversations. And so that's that, Leo Torrell. - Yeah, it's sort of like these people are like, I guess we could fund a couple thousand dollars that it's like a panel or two. And then Leo says, okay, you know the era's tour? It's gonna be like that. And obviously they backed out. - Well, he's like a ceiless character in this administration, but this story just about summarizes the entire experience, right? Like, high on his own supply thinks it's gonna go great, thinks he's gonna win the midterms for the Republicans, thinks he's got a cudgel, ends up in a ground level floor with seven interns and thorns to choke them and creeps on another one. It's just like a great metaphor. - It is just really incredible to be like, all right, here's my big knife in the back of her meat play. I'm gonna leak to the New York Times. I better get the interns in here. (laughing) - But I can't even afford the subscriptions as someone said, the gif link, please. All right, Leo, if you're watching, look, I mean, we had a lot of fun with you, but you're welcome to come on and talk about it. If you wanna talk about it, I'm happy to go through these one by one, I think it could be educational. And yeah, you could call me a Jewator, that's fine. All right, Will, thank you for doing this buddy, folks. Hey, I always say subscribe to the feed and you should do that. But in this case, give the Harvard Crimson some kudos. I don't know if they have some subscription service or whatnot, but give 'em a little high five. They did some great journalism here and the presentation honestly is great. Just the way that they laid it out with some of the quotes and the scrolls. It's fantastic, check it out, it's at the Harvard Crimson, but also subscribe to the feed. Will, talk to you later, buddy. - Thanks, everyone.