True Crime Vault: The Secret in the Suitcase

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I'm going to smash your face in. He said he was leaving, and he wasn't coming back. Were you ever angry? Angry enough to want to see him dead. There were times I wanted him gone, but gone doesn't mean dead. And Mel just said, well, I'm a single mom now, and now I've just got to get on with my life. I said, well, no, the next thing is, we've got to figure out who did this to him. And after I got off the phone, I said, she did it. They couldn't find any forensic evidence whatsoever to establish that this was a crime scene. Do you still insist that you're. Innocent? Absolutely. I still feel like, how could somebody think that I did that? I think she did not actually commit the crime. It turns out, it isn't the end of this story. My name is Megan Sachs. I'm a criminologist at Fairly. Fairly Dickinson University. In simplest terms, criminology is the scientific study of what causes crime and how the criminal justice system responds to crime. I've written about 25 true crime books over the years, and I think Melanie McGuire's is perhaps one of the most interesting ones and baffling. This is Melanie McGuire, arrested today minutes after dropping off her children at daycare. Melanie McGuire, a New Jersey nurse, was accused of killing her husband, cutting up his body and throwing it into the Chesapeake Bay. In 2007, what was being called the suitcase murder trial was generating an enormous amount of media attention, not just in New Jersey, but all across the country. Three bizarre discoveries, three separate suitcases, all containing human remains. The woman who was on trial for her very life, she says the real truth behind the crime has never been revealed. With no history of violence and no opinion, with no apparent motive for murder, could she really have done it? She was this beautiful young nurse, and they were this seemingly normal middle-class couple, and the murder happened in such a grisly way. The idea that this beautiful nurse could have actually killed her husband and then cut him up is just incredible. Of course, there were the salacious aspects. Mrs. McGuire is a registered nurse, and prosecutors say she had an affair with a doctor. She didn't fit the profile, I guess, of a murderer. Over the years, students and colleagues of ours have come to me and said, you know, Melanie McGuire proclaims her innocence and would love to tell her story. I started thinking, oh, maybe there is a little more to this case than what you just see on the surface. And then the idea of a podcast came up, and I was all in. On Direct Appeal, we examine the murder conviction of Melanie McGuire following a highly publicized trial. Looking at the evidence that was presented and the evidence that may have seemed insignificant at the time, we form our own. We form our own conclusion about Melanie's guilt. We here at ABC have our own history with the Melanie McGuire case. Back in 2007, ABC's Cynthia McFadden had the first on-camera interview with the mother of two on trial for murdering her husband. Who is the Melanie McGuire you hope the jury knows? The one who tried to take care of everybody. The one who didn't make the smartest decisions, but admitted to those mistakes to the people she trusted most, but did not admit what she's accused of. I have been incarcerated for 12 and a half, going on 13 years now. Do you still insist that you're innocent? Absolutely. You're sitting here a wrongfully convicted person. Correct. Absolutely. And what have those years been like? I tell people, it's not as bad as you think in some ways, and it's so much worse than I could ever articulate in others. After all these years, I still feel hurt. I still feel bothered. This whole saga begins on May 5th, 2004, with an odd discovery in Virginia Beach. The story of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. Early morning, a couple of fishermen and their kids are out on a boat by the Chesapeake Bay. Me and my friend Don Connors was going to go out fishing, and we both had days off, and D, or Don, we called him D, said, keep his kids out of school, we're going to take them fishing. So everybody was excited. We went right out through this bridge here, and if you keep on going, you'll run right into the Chesapeake Bay Bridge, and you'll see the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel. The Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel is about 17 and a half miles long. It really is quite astonishing. It connects the eastern shore of Virginia to Virginia Beach. It has two tunnels for two shipping channels, and once you get on the other side, you go north, you're up into Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey. So we went out there and anchored off of Fisherman's Island, and we were just doing some fishing. And suddenly, one notices that a suitcase has floated by. We wheeled the boat around, pulled up alongside it. I immediately thought it probably blew off of a car, you know, off the luggage rack or something. D and his son had reached over and were trying to pull it up in. It had some weight to it, so I stopped the boat, reached in and helped him pull that thing up, and pulled it up in there and laid it in the floor of the boat. They found a dark green Kenneth Cole suitcase in pretty good condition that was apparently part of a luggage set of three. They put it on board, and the little boy with them is very, very excited. He thinks it's buried treasure, so he wants to open it. The contents were covered with a thick trash bag, like a hefty bag or something. So, I was a little bit nervous then when I saw the black bags in there. So, it's a turn to say something to D, and while I was talking to D, the young boy reached down and ripped open the plastic trash bags. There was no doubt of what it was. It was a set of human legs. There's a pair of male legs from the knee down. Look very fresh, and they recoil in horror. I looked down there and said, "Oh, my gracious." So, I closed the bag back up and I dialed 911. I was out on patrol in Chesapeake Bay when I received a radio call. I made arrangements with him to meet me, and he transferred a suitcase over to my boat. I handed him the luggage, and he seemed surprised. He goes, "What do you want me to do with that?" I said, "Open it up." I was pretty shocked. I'd never seen a suitcase with body parts in it before. There really wasn't any smell. They actually look kind of fresh. The first suitcase being found was big news. It's not, you know, a common find by any means, especially in this area. This is an alarming story. Everybody wanted to know who the man in the suitcase was. We kind of figured there had to be other suitcases with other parts in it. After the initial shock of them finding the suitcase, everyone was just waiting for what was going to wash up next. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ The Chesapeake Bay area, there's a lot of boaters. There are bird watchers. There's Fisherman's Island, a nature sanctuary. This is really kind of a tourist, a fun area. People are going there to relax. They're going with their families. the start of the summer tourist season, which is huge for Virginia Beach, and getting that kind of negative publicity of bodies washing up in suitcases was something they did not need. Six days later, the student was on Fisherman's Island in the middle of the Chesapeake Bay, which is a nature preserve. And she saw a dark green Kenneth Cole suitcase. - She was curious what could be contained inside, and she actually pulled a little bit of the black trash bag out of the suitcase. There was such a strong odor of decomposition that she immediately stopped and notified the refuge workers. - The police, they'd been expecting this, 'cause after the first Kenneth Cole bag with the legs, they suspected there was gonna be more. - It was transported to the medical examiner's office in Norfolk, and that's where we actually viewed what the contents inside. - Inside the suitcase would be the torso and the head of a male. The torso was still attached with the arms and the head. - The head was wrapped in what looked like a medical blanket. - The face was somewhat identifiable, but it had been submerged for a while, so extremely bloated. - The medical examiner is able to determine that the victim's been shot multiple times. There are a couple of gunshot wounds in the torso area, and one through the head. - There were two bullets that were recovered from the bag. They were covered from the body, wad cutter bullets. And wad cutter bullets are not typically used by the average person, but they are used for target practice. - And it became a very big local story. - A student discovered a suitcase near Fisherman Island, inside a human head. - It's getting a lot of coverage. - It's the second suitcase in a week found near the Chesapeake Bay Bridge tunnel, and the second one containing body parts. - And everybody was waiting for the rest of the body to turn up. ♪ ♪ - Well, the third suitcase was found on May 16, 2004, in the water by a fisherman. - He saw the suitcase floating in the water. This third suitcase that had been in the water the longest did have some growth on it from floating in the water for so long. - This suitcase contained the pelvis, so from the waist down to above the knees. Authorities realized they have to figure out, they have to figure out who it is. - Any time you find an unknown body, the first thing you're gonna do is look into missing person cases to see if the profile matches anyone who's currently missing. - Because of the naval bases in the area, they're checking military records. They're checking everything they can possibly think of to figure out who this person is. - One of the policemen working on it came up with the idea of getting a sketch artist in. - I immediately took photographs to our sketch artist, and she was able to do a sketch for us, and we eventually released it to the media. - We're hoping maybe this will give us an edge and maybe identify him sooner. - Right now, he's just-- - John Doe. - May the 21st, Sue sees the picture on TV of a sketch that they had done to find out who this person was. - Sue had been getting out of the shower one morning, the television was on, and as she was getting out, tallying off, she looks at the TV. - This is a sketch of the body that washed ashore near the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel this month. - He belongs to somebody. I mean, he's got loved ones. - She thinks, oh my God, that looks like Bill. - Sue was pretty sure that it was Bill McGuire. This is John and Sue Rice, Bill McGuire's good friends. Bill and John had been friends since their early Navy days. Bill was friends with Sue as well. Melanie knew Sue. The couples had vacationed together. - Sue immediately calls her husband to take a look, and he's not so sure it's Bill, but Sue's convinced it is, in fact, and says, "Please call Crime Stoppers." - He was very good friends with Mr. McGuire. He told me that Mr. McGuire lived in Woodbridge, New Jersey. He was married to Melanie McGuire, and they had two small children. - He wanted to know more about the dynamics of Bill, why I thought it could be Bill, and the only way that I thought it could be Bill is that, yeah, he's missing too. - John Rice had spoke to Cindy Lagosh, who is William McGuire's sister. - I got a call from Cindy. She said, "John, is Billy there?" And I said, "No, he's not." "What's going on?" And she said, "Well, Bill and Melanie got in an argument, "and he left, and he hadn't been heard from." - He said he was leaving and he wasn't coming back. My husband was full of bluster when it came to stuff like that. He would say things like that all the time. I didn't actually believe it was the last time I was ever gonna see my husband. - William McGuire had, in fact, vanished. Mr. Rose was gone. Mr. Rose was gone. - Mrs. Rice and his wife, Mrs. Rice, eventually agreed to come down to the police department in Virginia Beach and view some photos. - Bill had a little red mark right here, and that's what I kept zoning in on when I saw the picture. That's exactly what I zoned in on. I mean, I've known Bill for 22 years. I kept seeing that, and I was pretty certain that it was Bill. - Once we had a name and approximate age, we ran him through our computer system. - He ran a check on Bill McGuire, and he found that McGuire had been arrested in Virginia for a reckless driving charge in the 1980s. - His fingerprints were on file already, which made it a lot easier, and they're very quickly able to confirm that the fingerprints matched. - The man in the suitcases was identified as 39-year-old William McGuire of Woodbridge, New Jersey. - So according to Melanie, she just thinks her husband is missing, but she is about to get the news. That will change her life forever. - And I said, "I'm sorry to tell you, ma'am, that William is deceased." And I just, I just burst into tears. - Now they've sold the mystery of who the man in the suitcase is. - This episode is sponsored by HomeServe. Think about the last time something went wrong in your home, like a burst panic. 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For 50% less your first year, go to HomeServe.com/2020 to find the plan that's right for you. That's HomeServe.com/2020 for 50% less. Savings compared to renewal price. Void in Florida. California suburb. One family's home is unusually quiet. When detectives walked into that house, they said that it was like time just stood still. It's 2010, and the McStay family is nowhere to be found. Inside the home, no clear answer where the family could have gone. Husband, wife, and two children all gone. Like, poof, disappeared. The search for the McStays quickly captures the nation. But for years, the search for answers only brings more questions. Who's ever heard of an entire family going missing? A family of four doesn't just drop off the face of the earth with no contact. Is this a family on the run? Or is the truth far more sinister? From ABC Audio in 2020, this is what happened to the McStays. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or your favorite podcast app. Or subscribe to 2020 True Crime Plus on Apple Podcasts to listen early and ad-free. ♪ ♪ The Melanie McGuire story is centered around New Jersey. ♪ ♪ They lived in the working class part of New Jersey where the Sopranos took place, which was perhaps the hottest show at the time. ♪ ♪ ♪ You woke up this morning ♪ ♪ Got yourself in ♪ ♪ ♪ Melanie is at Jersey. She's a Jersey girl, born and raised there. Her parents are Linda and Michael Caparero. ♪ ♪ She's a great, great daughter, mother, friend, full of life, fun-loving, a good girl. Never in trouble. Never in trouble. Always trying to help people. ♪ ♪ She's working in the restaurants in Jersey. She's a waitress. And she met Bill McGuire. He was also a server. ♪ ♪ Bill was known as the rude waiter because he would speed people up in a jocular way. But they loved it, and he would ask for the rude waiter. What was he like? Funny, clever. He had a big heart when he wanted to. He wanted all the right things. He was very, very loyal. He was a tremendous friend. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ When I first met him, I was like, I didn't know what to make of him. Because he was really a practical joker and whatnot. And I thought, well, this guy could probably to get on somebody's nerves with all this. But he was so funny, he just kind of overcame whatever resistance you might have to him. - Melanie was a fertility nurse when I met her. She was so caring, so nurturing. - She was working with women who were going through really tough times trying to get pregnant. She was very compassionate, and her patients really loved her. - What made you a good nurse? - Type A personality. - The way I looked at it, I was not going to be happy with anything less than the total comfort level of my patients. - In 1998, Bill called John and I and told us that he wanted to bring Melanie down to meet us. Melanie, she's a really nice person to be around. Physically, she's beautiful. She's very smart. - She had a lot of the same sense of humor that Bill had. When Bill was a little bit older, he was making jokes. Melanie would be right in there. - He liked to razz people. She would razz him right back. He really was crazy about her. - What was your relationship with Bill like in the beginning? - In the beginning, it was the challenge. It was the chase. It was, we had a bit of a tempestuous relationship. Even before we got married, we would break up, get back together. - Bill and Melanie dated for quite a while. - There were infidelities. They'd fight. - I think she thought she could make a difference in his life. I think she thought that she could maybe change him, make him happy. She truly did love him. - You guys want some more champagne? - Yeah. - All right, let me go get a bottle, 'cause there's nothing in there, is there? - They got married in 1999. It was probably one of the most extravagant weddings we've ever been to. - Mr. and Mrs. William McGuire. Melanie, on her wedding day, looked absolutely gorgeous, angelic, you know, just perfect. - Both Bill and Melanie seemed like they couldn't have been happier. - She was a little buddy. - He was marrying a girl that he absolutely loved in a way that maybe he hadn't loved anybody before. - Bill, could you put your hands up? This is the last time Bill's gonna have the upper hand. - Bill McGuire got a $65,000 a year job with the New Jersey Institute of Technology. - Bill and Melanie settle into a rented townhouse in Woodbridge, New Jersey. - Woodbridge is a sprawling, densely populated township on the suburban end of New Jersey's industrial flatlands. If you're going down I-95, you're taking exit 11 to get off to Woodbridge. - We were both happy new parents, and then things changed drastically. - He had a dual personality. He could be very likable. And then on the other hand, he'd be very calculating, manipulate you. - He had always had issues with gambling. - And he would go through periods where he would go down to Atlantic City a lot. - There were times that he would just take off to AC and gamble, and she just wouldn't hear from him, wouldn't know what was going on. - He found he could make some money gambling. There were good times with that, and there were bad times. And there were a couple of times I'd put my foot down, and I said, "That's it, no more." So then he would get involved in the stock market. He wanted what he wanted, and he couldn't get it fast enough. And with that came frustration, and eventually that frustration became directed at me. There was one particular argument over the phone, where he had gotten stopped for a traffic ticket. He had an absolutely atrocious driving record. So I start to argue back, and the next thing coming out of his mouth is, "When I get home, I'm gonna kill you. I'm gonna smash your face in." It's very difficult for me to think back on it, because I actually drove off in the middle of the night, and I had left, and I should have stayed gone. - Why did you stay? - I wasn't strong enough to leave. - Did you love him? - I did, I did. And even though, now at this point, bear in mind, I'm having an affair. - What appealed to you about Brad Miller? - He was just very, very tender. I really tried to fight it, but I couldn't. I couldn't fight it. - Life for the Maguires is getting a little more complicated, and then one night, it all erupts. - Bill was probably the most street-wise person I've ever known. And I can tell you, he never saw it coming. - Melania's loving, caring, funny, considerate. We just clicked right away, to the point that I asked her to be in my wedding when I got married. - Love is always patient and kind. It is never jealous. Love is never boastful or conceited, and is not resentful. Love takes no pleasure in other people's sins, but delights in the truth. - In June 2001, the Maguires were already married for a few years. And even though there was some friction in the marriage, Melanie Maguire decided to have another child. - Little does her husband know just how ill-timed this pregnancy is. Not only is Melanie about to have their second child, she's also having an affair. - Dr. Bradley Miller was a partner in RMA Associates, and Melanie was working as one of his nurses. - He was so kind. I'd come back to my desk after a long meeting with a patient, and there'd be lunch sitting on my desk waiting for me. You know, there was always a little bit of flirtation, banter back and forth. Melanie was about 38 weeks pregnant, and things changed between her and Dr. Miller. - I was about to go out on maternity leave, and I was sitting actually in his office at his desk. I just mentioned I have a pinched nerve in my neck, and he just-- he put his hands on my shoulders and started to rub my back. I tried to-- I really tried to fight it, because this was not going to be good. This was not going to be good for anybody. But I couldn't-- I couldn't fight it. - After Melanie came back from maternity leave, she and Dr. Miller started a full-blown affair. And it seemed like they were falling in love with each other, although they were both married with young children. - Shortly after my second son was born, that's when things began to-- the final descent downhill, if you will. Melanie and Bill moved to the Woodbridge apartment. This is a townhome. They don't own it. They're renting it. - He was constantly looking, looking, looking at homes. He wanted to end up buying a house before he turned 40. - He did want to move down here to Virginia Beach. We took pictures of houses in our neighborhood, but Melanie just would not hear of it. - The first time we moved down here to Virginia Beach, we were like, what the hell? What's going on? What's going on? What's going on? - They ended up putting a really sizable deposit down in a very nice home in New Jersey. - It was a very nice house. It had quite a bit of land. It was a half a million dollar home. - It was very contradictory. She's becoming closer to Dr. Miller, but she's going along with Bill's idea of buying a house. - The marriage wasn't going well at all. So why were you buying this half a million dollar house? Why were you buying this half a million dollar house together then? - The idea for me was we had a chunk of money, cash, that we were putting down on this house. In the past, we'd come to points where we had been in similar situations. And he would-- ultimately something would happen, and he would go and gamble the money away. I figured this at least was an investment. - On April 28th, they're due to close on the house at 2 o'clock in the afternoon. And she's in constant touch with Dr. Miller, who's pleading with her not to buy the house. He wants to be with Melanie, and he sees a future life with her. - And Melanie told him that, you know, not to worry about it. It's going to be OK. I'll take care of it. - After they close on the house, they go back to their rented townhouse. Bill is so excited. He calls John Rice. John said that Bill had never been happier. - The last person Melanie speaks to that night is Dr. Miller. She tells him, look, we've closed on the house. Bill's had some red wine. He's asleep on the couch. But when he wakes up, we're going to sort this out, and I'm going to tell him I want a divorce. - Melanie described the events that would happen later on as a big fight. - You and Bill had a horrible fight, yes? - Correct. We fell asleep on the couch, woke up early morning, morning hours, and it was never a bad time for an argument. We're talking probably 3:00, 4:00 o'clock in the morning. It starts on the house. I settled for that house. What the hell are you talking about? You settled for that house. It's a half a million dollar house. That's not what I wanted. - Melanie says that Bill turned around and said, what I really wanted was a house in Virginia for cheaper, but you refused to let us do that, and so I have to settle. And she says-- This turns into a very heated argument. From there, things became more physical. How physical? In what way? He shoved a dryer sheet in my mouth. He had a thing about dryer sheets. The story that Melanie tells about a fight that seems to escalate over a dryer sheet is the same story she told us back when we first spoke with her. We're still arguing, and there's the laundry basket, and there's a dryer sheet just hanging out of one of the baby's sleeves. He hated them. He thought it was lazy that I wouldn't stand there and put in the liquid fabric softener. And, yeah, and it went out of control. This was the type of mother I was, that I would leave this sheet in there for my baby to possibly choke on. Before I know it, I'm up against the wall, and the dryer sheet is being shoved into my throat. And then he just smacked me. In the face? Yeah, open hand, because he probably would have broken my cheek if it had been a closed fist. And then I look down, and there's my two-year-old. I grabbed the baby and went to the bathroom right behind me and shut the door. I just wanted away from him at that point. He said he was leaving and he wasn't coming back, and I could tell my children why they didn't have a father. Did he say this to you through the bathroom door? Yeah, through the bathroom door the entire time. I imagined he was packing things and leaving. He was up and down the stairs a lot, but every trip back and forth berating me. What's the last thing you remember saying to him? Stop. Stop. Melanie said he'd driven off, and she presumed he was at Atlantic City. He would have been back. I knew it. But this isn't just a few days that Bill McGuire is gone. We're talking weeks. What bothered me was that Melanie never reached out and said, "Hey, Bill's missing." She never reported her husband missing, and it's almost 30 days. The fact that we never heard anything from her was deeply suspicious to me. Love is always ready to excuse, to trust, to hope, and to endure whatever comes. Love does not come to an end. This is the word of the Lord. In the early morning hours of April 29, 2004, Melanie McGuire said that she and her husband Bill had a violent fight, and that he left and she never saw him again. Melanie says the next day she got her kids up, she took them to daycare, and she started trying to figure out how she was going to move on with her life without Bill. And during this next day, the day after that, the day after that, you didn't hear anything from him? No. Did you try calling him directly? No. Because this is what used to happen when we fought. You know, I'd call whether it was to tell him off or to try to apologize or what. We just end up getting back into it again. I'm done now. I'm done. She retains a divorce attorney, and at this point she does tell the divorce attorney that she has not seen her husband in a few days. And according to Melanie, the attorney advised her not to file a missing persons report. My heart broke for her. She didn't deserve-- nobody deserved that. But I told her that, you know, she needed to think about herself right now. She needs to protect herself. I called a business associate of mine who was an attorney. She said, "You need to get a restraining order." State your full name. Melanie Lynn McGuire. She had to go in front of a judge and give sworn statement about the incident that happened. Tell me what happened that brought you to court today for a temporary restraining order. My husband and I closed on our first house on Wednesday. That should be a positive thing, shouldn't it? Yeah, it should. He's been behaving really erratically. Ms. McGuire, you're safe here. Don't worry. Melanie explained to the judge how Bill had been violent with her. Did he hit you, ma'am? Not until-- well, I don't mean to sound like I had absolutely no part in this. I said some not nice things and slapped me. Part of the questions, Melanie was asked by the judge if she owned any firearms. Do you know if there's any weapons? Not to my knowledge. This is a sketch of the body that washed ashore near the Chesapeake Bay Bridge tunnel this month. We're hoping maybe this will give us an edge and maybe identify him sooner. About a month goes by between the time that Bill disappears and when Sue Rice identifies Bill McGuire after seeing the sketch on local TV. The next thing police have to do is notify Melanie McGuire of the death of her husband. Melanie was asked to come down to the police station. The officer came out and he says, "Is your husband William McGuire?" And I said, "Yes." And he said, "I'm sorry to tell you, ma'am, that William is deceased." And I just-- I just burst into tears. But there's one thing she never asked. How was Bill McGuire murdered? They did not tell her how and the condition in which he was found. That would be one of the first questions that I would ask. The next step was that the Virginia police wanted to speak with Melanie. Melanie agrees, but she brings her divorce attorney with her and another criminal attorney in that practice. Conducting an interview with the victims, Melanie said, "Well, I don't know. The victim's wife with two attorneys present is highly unusual." First time I have ever had that happen to me. She was nervous. She was visibly shaking. She made expressions like she was crying, but she never had a tear in her eye. I asked her if she had any luggage, and she informed us that they didn't have any matching luggage. The next day, Melanie told detectives she suddenly remembered that the McGuire's did own a matching set of designer luggage. I showed her a picture of one of the pieces of luggage that we recovered in the bay, and she identified that as belonging to them. They asked what kind of person Bill was, and she said he was the kind of person that had an act for pissing people off. She asked us, "Where did we find her husband's vehicle at?" I told her at that point we hadn't found her husband's vehicle. And she said that probably a good place to look would be Atlantic City, New Jersey. She also informed us that her husband had a gambling problem. Did he get involved with the wrong people? That's what I would have to believe, that he had gotten himself into something, and Bill always thought he could handle everything. He was always into some kind of a deal, so I think maybe this deal was his last deal. After the interview was done that evening, we also conducted a search at their old apartment building. The apartment was empty. She had already moved out. They asked about Bill's possessions and his clothes. We discovered that Miss McGuire had already given all of her husband's belongings away. Virginia Beach detectives find out that Melanie McGuire had given most of Bill's belongings away to a friend's cousin, and they wanted to track that man down. Eventually, they did and found out that most of Bill's clothing was still in black trash bags, much like the bags that contained Bill McGuire's body parts. The garbage bag, by sight, looked identical. Things are starting to make sense with the detectives. There's black trash bags, and there's also the hospital blanks, with the hospital blanket that the head was wrapped into. And they're thinking, "Well, Melanie McGuire is a nurse." That's kind of an odd coincidence. At Melanie's suggestion, detectives start to search Atlantic City for Bill's car. And lo and behold, that's exactly where they find it. The Atlantic City forensic unit processed Mr. McGuire's vehicle. They took photos. They fingerprinted. They vacuum-cleaned the floorboards. The body was released to Melanie on a Tuesday. Immediately, she had him cremated. And the funeral lasted all of 10, 15 minutes at the most. She called the following evening after the funeral, and at that point, I just kind of blasted her. I just told her, I said, "Melanie, Bill deserves so much more. And Mel just said, "Well, I'm a single mom now, and now I've just got to get on with my life." I said, "Well, no, the next thing is, we've got to figure out who did this to him." And after I got off the phone, I remember hanging it up, and I said, "John, she did it. She did it." Everything pointed to Melanie McGuire. Through wiretapping her phones, the police discovered the relationship that she was having with Dr. Miller. It's a eureka moment, because it provides motive. I've told them everything that I know. But they're, you know, they just don't. They didn't want you to break. PHONE RINGS What's the last thing you remember saying to him? Stop. Stop. People like to believe that someone was capable of committing this type of murder. Accused of cutting up his body and throwing it into the Chesapeake Bay. That the person who did that would look like a monster. But, sometimes killers look just like Melanie Dwyer. Is there anything else you're not telling me? Like what? Like I killed you? Did you? No. No? Are you sure? A scorched earth investigation was conducted. The lack of evidence is resounding. The evidence in this case points to a well organized, meticulously planned execution of a murder. Computer searches that say, how to murder someone, how to poison someone. Basically, multiple searches about how you kill someone. I don't get to be an evil genius and an idiot at the same time. I believe that Melanie was wrongfully convicted. Who do you think killed your husband? Melanie Maguire, once a married mother to two little boys and a fertility nurse, is today a 47-year-old inmate at the Edna Mann Correctional Facility in Clinton, New Jersey. In here, guilt and innocence is irrelevant in day-to-day life. I have six numbers and a letter after my name. The same as the woman on one side of me and the same as the woman on the other side of me. After Virginia Beach exhausted their investigation, they realized all signs pointed north to New Jersey. My name is Patty Prezioso. I was the lead investigator in the Melanie Maguire investigation and prosecution. Patty Prezioso was a very driven and highly successful Assistant Attorney General in New Jersey. You let the evidence guide you and you follow it until it's clear what happened. She was extremely competent and it was obvious. The task force had local police, state police, the Attorney General's office. They decided to treat this case with top priority. It was clear that he had been shot and trying to find out if any of the people close to Bill owned a gun was a top priority. The detectives don't find any record of Melanie Maguire's gun in New Jersey, so they decide to check Pennsylvania. They knew that Pennsylvania was close and a lot of people will go to Pennsylvania for firearms because the gun laws are more lax. There's less of a waiting period. So you can go in and essentially walk out the same day with a firearm. It turned out that when the record check was done with Pennsylvania, a record came back that Melanie Maguire had purchased a gun. I remember playing this day when she came in because not many women come into the shop. She filled the forms out. And then when she wrote down her occupation that she was a nurse, that stuck in my mind because I guess that was the first time I ever sold a gun, you know, to a nurse. Melanie bought a Taurus 38 Special. And she bought Wadcutter bullets. And that gun was purchased just two days before Melanie Maguire said her husband went missing. And remember, early on, Virginia detectives talked to Melanie and she never mentioned anything to them about buying a gun. I had informed my attorneys of the purchase of the gun. And they said, "Well, you know, if they ask, don't lie, but don't offer any information." They never asked about a gun. Melanie bought the gun because Bill wanted her to buy the gun. She could get it. He wanted it. What he wanted, he got. Because Bill Maguire had a felony conviction stemming from his horrendous driving record, he was barred from purchasing firearms. You say your husband asked you to purchase the gun, but you purchased a gun just two days before your husband went missing. Of course, it's a coincidence. However, he was on me for a while about that, about trying to get that. And if something was happening, if he was in some sort of trouble, that may very well have been the reason why he was so intent on getting it. Once the police really honed in on Melanie, they began wiretapping her phones. Hello. Hi. The surveillance was so intense that over a 40-day period, they recorded 500 hours of her phone calls. Every time you get your head back above water, that hand reaches out from beyond the grave. A lot of those calls were very cryptic. Hey. How you doing? I spoke to, uh. Uh, what's his name about shipping? Alex. Uh, I didn't want to say name. You understand what I'm saying? Yep. She used the phrase a lot, uh, "being cut off at the knees." At least meet with a lawyer ahead of time who might cut it off at the knees. Doesn't that look suspicious? It doesn't matter what it looks like. She was a little salty. That was her personality, though. She was a Jersey girl. A lot of them were to her boyfriend, Dr. Bradney Miller. It was very clear, right from the start, right from the beginning, that the relationship with Dr. Miller was different. There was a change in her voice. It was a softer tone. It's a eureka moment when they realize that she's having an affair because it provides motive. Dr. Miller also becomes a suspect. So, one night when Dr. Miller was leaving work, he was going to his car. The detectives came out to confront him. Dr. Miller was adamant that he had nothing to do with any crime and he didn't know anything about this. And so I think the police said, "Well, prove it." You know, if you're willing to wear a wire, we'll believe you. It is now 2:30 p.m., May 31, 2005. Brad Miller making an outgoing call to Melanie McGuire. Hello? What's up? Do they want you to break? I mean, if you want us to stick together, I've got to know everything now before this goes any further. What do you mean you have to know everything now? I mean, there's no other secrets between us, right? Well, then I can think of. You swear you had nothing to do with us? Yeah. And you're choking lives? 'Cause I'm speaking about you. Yeah. In those intercepted phone calls, another friend she was speaking to was Jim Finn. Melanie met Jim Finn in nursing school, and Jim admittedly had a crush on Melanie. But once she left nursing school, she never talked to him again. You know, that was it until February 2004, and she suddenly got in touch with him again. When she needed something, he was someone that, you know, she could manipulate. And she knew he was a lover of guns. The police also approach Jim Finn because they find that before Bill disappeared, she's been talking to him about the firearms. She said to him, "Hey, I need to talk to you. "There's some weird stuff going on here, "and Bill is acting weird." Jim, who really still holds a torch for Melanie, and Melanie knows that, says, "Well, maybe you should get a gun to defend yourself." Investigators pick up Jim Finn, who also allows them to record his conversations with Melanie. And once they hear what's on those calls, they're satisfied Finn knew nothing about the murder. At the time the detective spoke to Jim Finn, he had no idea that Melanie McGuire had purchased a gun. He was surprised. Like what? Like I killed him? Did you? No. Thanks for asking. Melanie never wavers on whether or not she was involved. It is always a hard no. I want you to tell me the truth. I'm telling you the truth. I did not do it. She was under a microscope. Everything she did was being watched. Everything she said was being listened to. Melanie does something that most people would find a little suspicious. Investigators start looking at her E-ZPass records. They notice trips to Atlantic City. She knew that Bill McGuire's car was in Atlantic City because she put it there. That requires two drivers. So that means someone helped her. What investigators find in Atlantic City has them wondering, did Melanie have an accomplice? And if so, who was it? There is so much NFL on ESPN right now. Monday Night Football. Plus pregame and postgame. NFL Live. NFL Primetime. Everything you need to know. you need to stay on top of every game, every week. Unbelievable. And now, NFL Network is on the ESPN app. More football, more coverage, more ways to watch. Football's on, all season long, on ESPN and streaming on the ESPN app. Everybody okay in here? I'm hormonal! Boo-hoo! We are all hormonal! Stop to the party, it's coming up. FX presents Adults. Dude, you're the most mature of any of us. No. You have TSA pre-check. Global injury. From executive producer Nick Kroll. Going out alone isn't weird, it's mature. I asked my mom! FX's Adults premieres August 27th on FXX. All episodes streaming on Hulu. The next set of clues in the mystery of who killed Bill McGuire leads investigators to a 170-mile stretch of tollbooth. The Garden State Parkway. With Melanie now the prime suspect, detectives start pulling her records. They try to track her movements in the days around her husband's disappearance. And one of those is her E-ZPass statement. So when investigators start looking at her E-ZPass records, they notice that there were charges for two trips to Atlantic City. On April 30th, 2004, just two days after the fight Melanie said that she and Bill had, Melanie does something that is very odd and most people would find a little suspicious. I'm starting to become more actively angry at him. And I'm thinking, that son of a bitch. I know where he is. According to Melanie, she decides that he's probably in Atlantic City gambling, so she's going to drive down there and she's going to look for his car. So she's going to look for his car. Absolutely not rational, but get in the car and go down there. And I'm driving down and I take the first pass on this highway and I see a dark sedan. There's no way. There's no way. And lo and behold, there it is. Once Melanie spots Bill's car from the highway, she decides she's going to move his car. Melanie, what are you going to do? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Melanie says in the past when they're angry at each other, it's a way of messing with each other, I guess you could say. Pull off onto a little side street and I parked my car and it was like Mission Impossible. Scooted up to the car, got in, started it, and drove away. And where'd you put it? What I believe to be the Flamingo Hotel. What Melanie said was, I was going to move his car to the seediest part of town, the most annoying for him to find. It just didn't make any sense that he was physically abusive to her. But then she goes to mess with a car with a guy that she claims she doesn't want to be around. It sounds beyond ridiculous sitting here saying it. And I acknowledge that. I can't-- you know, it's the truth. It's an incredible story, meaning it's just not correct. We believe she was planting his car in Atlantic City. She was trying to create an illusion. That Bill McGuire was still alive. So certainly that means someone helped her. Someone had her Pathfinder and she was driving Bill McGuire's car. They put the car at the Flamingo Hotel and then she went home with the person driving her car. And investigators thought they'd struck pay dirt when they discovered that hotel's parking lot had surveillance cameras. In truth, of course, the footage did not capture who the driver was. The surveillance video from the Flamingo Hotel actually showed the victim's vehicle being pulled into a parking space. Because of the darkness and the glare and the background lights, you could not actually see the person that was occupying the vehicle. There was another inexplicable road trip, this time to Delaware, five days after her husband went missing. She had shared with Dr. Miller that in the early morning hours of May 4th, she was actually furniture shopping. Investigators think that this Delaware furniture trip is really just a ruse. That same road would have taken her to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel. Normally, someone would take the New Jersey Turnpike to go over the Delaware Memorial Bridge, picking up Route 13, which runs south to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge and Tunnel. Patty Precioso says that Melanie actually left the night before from New Jersey, drove Bill's remains to Virginia. We believe that that was when she took the suitcases with Bill's remains and got rid of them in the Chesapeake Bay. And the first suitcase turned up the very next day. But, of course, Melanie thinks this theory is preposterous. Virginia Beach is another 450 miles from Delaware. So, I mean, you're talking about hours, and there just isn't enough time. And why was she driving all the way down to Chesapeake with the body parts in the car, thinking, I'm not going to get stopped, I'm not going to break down? What a chance that is. You know, I mean, you can't stop on a bridge and open a window and throw three suitcases out. Maybe if it was one of the-- I mean, you have these pieces of circumstantial evidence for which you might have a reasonable explanation for one or two, but we're talking a large amount. You can't have reasonable explanations for all of them. It's a mountain, and it's a lot of coincidences. And that's-- absolutely. But coincidences don't always make for the best evidence. And detectives were still searching for any physical evidence that would link Melanie McGuire to her husband Bill's murder. Where is the proof? Where is the forensic evidence? The task force is convinced that Bill was murdered and dismembered at their townhouse in Woodbridge. So they concentrate on that. They went back four to five times to search for any evidence. They did everything that you would typically think of, right? They brought in the luminol and pulled down parts of the walls. They pulled out the piping, pulling floorboards up. They really turned this place upside down a number of times. They were trying to find bullets. They found traces of blood. And nothing ever came up. Couldn't find any forensic evidence whatsoever to establish that this was a crime scene. I don't know how you would dismember a body and effectively clean that up. Despite that glaring lack of physical evidence, investigators still believe the circumstantial evidence is enough and they arrest Melanie McGuire. So surreal. Day like any other, getting the kids off to daycare. We surveilled her to the school, waited for her to drop her children off. Walking out of the building, I'm not even off the curb. Melanie McGuire, can you come with us, please? I knew. Two years and 10 months after the first suitcase washed up, the trial against Melanie McGuire commenced. In Middlesex County, and it was a sensation. The evidence will show that while Bill was engrossed in purchasing the house, the defendant was very busy planning his death. There was no proof that Melanie McGuire murdered her husband. Prosecutor said either Melanie McGuire is guilty or she's the unluckiest woman in the world. A Monday, March 5th, 2007. Two years and 10 months after the first suitcase washed up in the Chesapeake Bay, Melanie McGuire went on trial for her husband's first degree murder. This was a case that had garnered a lot of media attention in New Jersey. It had all the elements that it was going to be a salacious trial. The judge let us know that the trial was going to be televised. Let's bring a couple of experts into the conversation to help us sort through yesterday's evidence. It made-- People act differently. I think Melanie loved the idea that she was the center of attention. She seemed very relaxed, much more relaxed than I would have been. It was a double edged sword. Because if she sat there, you know, more stoic, she looked nasty or she looked mean. And then when she was being more upbeat and talking to people, oh, well, you know, she's joking around at her own trial. There was nothing she could do that wasn't going to be criticized. By the time Melanie McGuire gets to trial, she's hired Steven Tirano and Joe Takapena to represent her. Joe Takapena was a high profile celebrity attorney. Joe Takapena. Joe Takapena. Joining me now, Joe Takapena. He's the attorney for Alex Rodriguez. He feels just as comfortable in front of a TV camera as in front of a jury. A scorched earth investigation was conducted, and the lack of evidence is resounding. The evidence in this case points to a well organized-- meticulously planned execution of a murder. Is that a fair description of you? Were you somebody, if you were going to do something, you were going to do it all the way? Correct. And I would counter that argument with, if that's the case, then I would have been sure to not include blankets that could be traced to me, my own luggage. They're not going to be able to tell you where William McGuire was killed. How he was killed, when he was killed. The defense were really trying to play to the jury that Bill was a major gambler and he may have owed thousands and thousands of dollars. He was a big gambler because he gambled beyond his means. When you have money out on the street and you're behind, you're not making payments, you know what happens? You get shot here and you get shot here. As prosecutors start laying out what they believe Melanie McGuire did to Bill, it all starts with something they found in his car after a run-up. It was processed in Atlantic City. When investigators first recovered Bill's car, they found a bottle of chloral hydrate, a red liquid, and also a syringe in it. State's Exhibit 983. Do you recognize that? Yes, that's the vial we dispensed the liquid in. Chloral hydrate is, have you ever heard the term slip somebody a mickey? It's the mickey. It's what it is. It's almost like a knockout truck. They do a lot of investigating on this chloral hydrate and eventually they find out that it was purchased the morning that Bill disappeared. Somebody dropped off this prescription for chloral hydrate at the Walgreens Pharmacy, which is just down the road from where Melanie's children went to preschool. But the prescription pad was that of Dr. Brad Miller, who was Melanie's boss. So the light bulb goes off and they're thinking right away, clearly Melanie had access to this prescription pad. She used it. She filled it. Chloral hydrate was necessary for this defendant to have control. And even more importantly, it was necessary to her that Bill McGuire had no control. Dr. Miller looked at the prescription and he said, that's not my signature. And it appears to be Melanie McGuire's handwriting. Prosecutors also focused on what they said Melanie was doing in the days before her death. Days before her husband's disappearance. For that, they looked at the McGuire's home computer. We had it forensically examined and it really was just astounding seeing what the internet searches were for. Can you describe the searches that you recovered? How to purchase guns illegally, how to commit murder and undetectable poisons, was searched. It didn't look good. It looked like someone was searching how to, you know, sedate someone or how to kill them. I'm a nurse. I was a nurse and I don't need to look up things like that. If I wanted to look for something like that, I have a PDR physician's desk reference. I have a book that I can look in that doesn't leave an internet history, but both Melanie and Bill use this computer. So it's really hard to figure out who, who was searching these things. Now you have absolutely no idea of knowing who actually conducted the searches that you talked about, correct? No, I don't. One of the things that we can say for certain is that your husband didn't commit suicide. He didn't shoot himself. He wasn't able to carve his own body up. And yet there's a suggestion from the defense that, some of the online searches were things that he was in fact doing, not that you were doing. It wasn't me. Although investigators found no physical evidence in the McGuire's home, they did find something significant in Bill McGuire's car. After Bill's car was recovered in Atlantic city, our criminalist was able to locate several pieces of small, flesh. These pieces of flesh are an artifact of Bill McGuire's body being disarticulated. The phrase was used, human sawdust. Human sawdust is a term that did not exist until this case, as I understand it. I found particles that to me look like it could be possibly human tissue. DNA results indicated that the flesh belonged to Bill McGuire. What this really was was a few pieces of microscopic skin cells that were a little bit deeper than the skin we passively shed. Could those tissues, the tissue that you looked at be shed from a live human being? It cannot be shared from a live human being. It's not a typical shedding process at all. Their theory was that this nurse who was kind of so meticulous had somehow just forgotten to wipe the bottom of her shoes that she accidentally trapped these human sawdust particles of Bill's body from the house to the car. Thank you, your honor. There were 81 witnesses in seven weeks. Good morning, Dr. Miller. Dr. Miller was the testimony that everyone was most anticipating. He was going to be the big star of the trial. I was having an affair and my whole life turned upside down. Were you in love? I was in love with the defendant. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for 12 month plan required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees, extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. We slow when network is busy. See terms. FX presents the shards, Los Angeles, 1981. We're going to roll the school. Don't we already? It was supposed to be the best year of their lives. I would stab someone for a drink right now until their friends started going missing. There's something going on from executive producer, Ryan Murphy and based on the bestselling thriller by Brent Easton Ellis. I was terrified. FX is the shards now streaming. You want to call your next witness, please? Yes, your honor. The state calls Dr. Bradley Miller. The most anticipated day of this trial is when the man who Melanie McGuire had a three-year affair with, Dr. Bradley Miller, took the stand. Everybody knew that that was the prosecution's star witness and the court was saying, I just feel. And when you saw him, what was your feeling? How could you? How could you? Dr. Miller was in a very difficult spot. He and his family had gone through a very difficult time and it was just made clear to him. Just take a deep breath and make sure you tell the absolute truth. Can you describe to the jury what was your relationship with her? We worked together. She was a. Excellent nurse. She took very good care of the patients. They all loved her. Sir, did there come a time when your relationship with Miss McGuire got more intimate? Yes, it did. It was towards the end of her second pregnancy. She was about 38 weeks pregnant and before she went on maternity leave, we had oral sex in the office. So not proud of that. It has to be pretty hard to hear it come up. In court. Hard for me to hear it hard for me to think, oh my God, my parents are hearing this. My 84 year old grandmother is hearing this. Were you in love with the defendant? Yes, I was. Had the two of you discussed future plans together? Yes, we were hoping to be together in the future. If we do make it through this, I'm just going to take whatever money I can get and get away. With Dr. Miller on the stand, prosecutors were able to score. Some points because there were certain things that Melanie never told Dr. Miller did the defendant ever tell you that she purchased a gun? No, ma'am. I had no knowledge of her purchasing the gun. Did the defendant ever tell you that she went to Atlantic City and parked her husband Bill's car at the Flamingo Hotel? No, she did not. Did there come a time when the defendant shared with you that she had done that? Yes. And I asked her, well, why didn't you tell me this sooner? And. And she told me that she didn't want me to be upset, that she's going back to find Bill to bring him back and rekindle the relationship. We looked very closely at Dr. Miller. There was no evidence connecting him with this crime. This is in reference to consensual recordings between Brad Miller and Melanie McGuire. You agreed to consensually record a conversation. with the defendant? Yes, I did. Prosecutors really wanted the jury to hear those intercepted calls so they could get a sense that maybe her desire to be with him was the motive for the murder. During the calls, Dr. Miller spoke about their future together, probably prompted by detectives. After a divorce and she gets half the money, I mean, there'd still be something to live on. The understanding between us had always been that the children came first. And he starts talking about divorce and a future and moving forward, and I even say on the tape, why are you talking like this all of a sudden? I'm confused because you've been the one to stress to me that we have to wait and see how everything plays out. The defense was also able to score some points with those recordings which called into question Dr. Miller's character. At the time of those secret recordings, he was still having an intimate relationship with her. After you tape recorded her, sir, you then had additional intimate relationship, correct? Yes, sir. Did you tell her that, by the way, that you had tape recorded her? No, I did not. I think that was damaging to his character and was a very big turnoff to the jury. Have you ever had contact again with Dr. Brad Miller? No. No. After the day he testified, I haven't laid eyes on him, so. You have no desire. It's. It's tough. That was a tough betrayal to swallow. What matters is whether the state, and the burden is on me and I welcome it, whether the state has proved each and every element beyond a reasonable doubt. When you combine the computer searches, the prescription for chloral hydrate, on prescription pads that the defendant used, and then you have the victim found inside their matching luggage, the bullets consistent with the gun that she purchased. It was a mountain of evidence. There's no question in my mind that she did it. I also don't believe that she acted alone. Now, who helped her? Patty Precioso told the jury that there was a very, very good chance that Melanie had an accomplice. Although he was never charged, investigators took a hard look at Melanie's stepfather, Michael Caporaro. The prosecutor needed somebody, so they focused in on me. Anything they wanted, we gave them. We gave him DNA, we gave him hair samples. I had nothing to do with anything involving that crime. You don't need the precise when. You don't need the precise where. You don't have to find that she pulled the trigger. You don't have to find that she had hands-on, physically, in regards to his death. Well, boy, that leaves a lot of speculation out there for the jury. You can't guess someone into prison for the rest of their life. The jury goes into deliberation, and Melanie and her family are waiting on pins and needles. I was very concerned. I think we all, as people, like to believe that if someone was capable of committing this type of murder, that the person who did that would look like a monster. But sometimes killers look just like Melanie McGuire. The day the verdict was read, the atmosphere in the courtroom was just electric. Has the jury reached a verdict in this case? Yes, Your Honor. How do you find us at the count of the indictment charging Melanie McGuire with the murder of William McGuire? Guilty. I just remember seeing her collapse. I remember grabbing Joe's arm, and I remember feeling my legs just kind of go out from under me. She's alternating between, "I didn't do it. I didn't do it," and, "My babies. My babies," and referring to her two children. The court finds that the maximum sentence should be imposed. Melanie is sentenced to life in prison plus five years. We're going to fight on. This is a definite setback. This is round one. This is not the end of the story. This is episode two. This is episode 14, direct appeal. I see a mountain of reasonable doubt. And thanks to these two professors turned podcasters, it turns out it isn't the end of this story. How could anyone be convicted with that amount of reasonable doubt? It's stunning. After sentencing, Melanie McGuire was taken to the Edmund Mann Correctional Facility in Clinton, New Jersey. Her new home would be a six by nine foot cell. It's just beginning for us now. We'll never give up. We will never, ever give up for her until the truth comes out. On direct appeal, we examine the murder conviction of Melanie McGuire. This is a prepaid call from Melanie McGuire, an inmate at Edmund Mann Correctional Facility. This is a prepaid call from Melanie McGuire, an inmate at the Edmund Mann Correctional Facility. All right. Obviously, Melanie's been convicted. She's exhausted all of her appeals at this point. So how did the idea for this podcast come about? Melanie McGuire was looking to speak with someone about her story because she had done really poorly in the court system. And I think she was frustrated. And after visiting with her the first time, I was like, this is a story. This is important. I expected the worst. And what I got was just one step shy. They give the verdict parole eligible at the tender age of 101. It was very difficult. It was reliving it. This was the first time somebody was basically saying, we hear you. What'd you say? Let's get to the juicy part. I want to know, do you think she is innocent or guilty? In the end, I believe that Melanie McGuire was wrongfully convicted. So you believe an innocent woman is behind bars right now? Absolutely. I believe this is a case of a wrongful conviction. So let's talk about some of the questions you raise in your podcast. And let's begin with the gun. The gun to this day has never been recovered. One of the key witnesses for the prosecution was a forensic ballistic expert. These are two discharge bullets. They're referred to as a.38 caliber lead wad cutter bullet. Is it possible that the gun Melanie bought is not actually the murder weapon? I think it's probable. No one plugged the serial number of my gun into a website to find out what the specifications were. Apparently each gun makes something called lands and grooves. Lands and grooves are rifling characteristics that are machine pressed into the barrel of a gun. And when the gun is in the barrel of the gun, the gun is in the barrel of the gun. And when the bullet passes through the barrel, the same number of lands and grooves are going to be imprinted essentially onto that bullet. There were five lands and grooves that my weapon was said to have made based on the company's website. The bullets that came out of my husband had six lands and grooves. It was a mistake on a gun manufacturer's website. We were not gathering evidence from a gun manufacturer's website. The evidence that was at trial was from ballistic experts. But the website was updated after this trial to incorporate the possibility that it could have five or six. I thought that was questionable. I think it's very questionable that for years historically it says one thing and then it's updated right after. Let's talk about the garbage bags. The prosecution had an expert that said that the garbage bag in which Bill's body was found in was consistent with the garbage bags that came from the gun. The police said that the garbage bag was a part of the gun. Melanie to these pet hairs it became not of evidentiary value why is that simply because they don't match your suspects those hairs should have been tested because that's a huge question mark Melanie did not incapacitate shoot use a saw to dismember her husband you know how hard it is to cut through bone it is physically exhausting and also if the crime scene didn't happen there and she's home with her children all night what where is this happening there are just too many holes in this story in this case with the mountain of evidence against her and a very complex plan I submit to you it's amazing we know as much as we do this was a murder trial it wasn't a contest to see who could outsmart the investigators and if someone is smart enough to successfully hide a crime scene that they win did you find any evidence that exonerates Melanie that proves her innocence I wish we did I had hoped we would I still think that we might get a tip in that direction what do you say to the people at home who watch this and say how dare she talk from prison and bring this all back up again enough pain has already befallen her husband's family her own sons there's a murderer walking around even if we discount what's happened to me the killer is out there and it's not me she had about as good a counsel as money could buy she certainly had a fair and impartial jury the fact of the matter is sometimes the evidence is such that your attorneys no matter what you can pay them they simply cannot overcome what you've done so she can say whatever she wants she's a liar and she's a killer today your boys are young men they are is there anything you'd want to say to them I don't know what to say to them I don't know what to say to them I don't know what to say to them there will always be questions about this case that we may never have the answers to like if Melanie McGuire did kill her husband why did she drive more than 300 miles to get rid of his remains in the Chesapeake Bay his friend John Rice has a theory Bill did want to move down here onto Virginia Beach after a time he gave up on that idea so it almost seemed like a vindictive thing on her part to drive him down oh you want to go to Virginia Beach here here you go why was it important for you to tell this story on your podcast a lot of people who are convicted they'll go through the appeals process but they won't prevail if we can investigate this provide any type of assistance we're possibly remedying some of the harshest parts of our system there are times when podcasts and media can shine a light where what the government did was not right this is not one of those cases a 39 year old man lost his life before he got to see his children grow up you have two little kids yep that is that's the hardest part knowing that when I see my children when I hug them goodbye and it could be the last time ultimately the courts would award custody to Bill's sister Cindy Lagosh Melanie has had no contact with them today your boys are young men they are is there anything you'd want to say to them make up your own mind don't accept what you're just being told on the surface dig what is your level of hope that one day you might walk out of here I'm terrified to hope because to have it thwarted in here it just it's absolutely soul-crushing Bill McGuire was the father of two small children he he was a brother he was a friend and his life got cut short I think Bill deserves to be remembered as a fantastic friend I think Bill deserves to be remembered as a fantastic friend Bill McGuire was the father of two small children he he was a brother he was a friend and his life got cut short I think Bill deserves to be remembered as a fantastic friend a dad who loved his his voice Bill McGuire was the father of two small children he he was a brother he he was a brother he was a friend and his life got cut short I think Bill deserves to be remembered as a fantastic friend he didn't deserve this nobody deserves that Bill McGuire was the father of two small children he he was a brother he he was a brother he he was a friend and his life got cut short I think Bill deserves to be remembered as a fantastic friend no one Bill McGuire was the father of two small children he he was a brother he was a brother he was a friend and his life got cut short I think Bill deserves to be remembered as a fantastic friend no one Thanks for listening to the 2020 True Crime Vault. We hope you'll join us Friday nights at 9 on ABC for all new broadcast episodes. See you then.