Trimble CEO on AI, Productivity & The Human Problem Holding Construction Back | Rob Painter

Would Apple be Apple without this? They own the rails, out into the field. I submit the answer is a hard no. It's a chart that I have is probably some degree of controversy with that chart and that data measures it at a total industry level, but not at the task level. $50 billion of venture capital. Where has it gone? I think for the ones that don't work is miss often when they build a feature not a business. Trillions of dollars of committed capital programs run through triple systems. Hundreds of billions of construction financials run through our systems. We have millions of users of our software around the world and hundreds of thousands of instruments and machines in the real physical world operate on triple. A company like Trimble worried about the foundational companies like OpenAI and the perfect Google. And to some extent, volunteer entering into the industry. These companies are moving fast. They're, say, they're powerful. They're compelling. So I do think you have to be humble. So Rob, thank you for joining us on Welcome. Oh, and hey, I'm glad to be here. Thanks for the invitation. Awesome. Let's do this. So yes or no answers. Try your best. Let's see where this goes. Is construction productivity going to improve in the next five years? Yes. It will improve over the next five years. And I think it'll happen at the intersection of the physical and the digital world to drive that productivity. Yeah. Nice. And we'll fully, fully autonomous excavators beyond job size in by 2035. Survey says no. I think about this from a global perspective, level five, fully autonomous. I think we're further away. But there will be for sure workflows and work types that get automated. OK. By or build, which has Trimble got better at in the last five years? Yes. Is the answer? I'm going to go with both. And it's easier to get better at the buy. I'm more impressed with how we've gotten better at the bill. No. OK. Most underrated technology and construction right now. I think it's that layer between at the intersection of the physical and the digital in the office and the field. So I think about this intersection of progress monitoring meets the scheduling and the sequencing. OK. Most overrated technology and construction right now. It's got to be a couple of the buzzwords. Let's go with digital twin. Means everything and nothing. I also think a lot of AI is overhyped at the moment. The general list of view of AI. So it's underhyped and overhyped simultaneously. I'm very, very, very-- I was-- when you said buzzwords, my initial reaction was, he's going to say, AI. And then you didn't, and then you said it. So cool. OK. Last one. And just to give people context to this question, you have a partnership with Liverpool FC. And they just-- I think today was the announcement of Andoni Aureola. But as a Chelsea fan, I have to ask you, would you rather have Shabia Lonzo, who is the Chelsea manager, or Adoni Aureola as your coach? Team Liverpool, my friend. Come on. OK. One sentence. What's the single most important thing? A construction CEO needs to understand about technology in 2026. You need to be in the weeds. I need to understand it, not delegate it. And I think a lot about getting senior people and organizations in construction companies to convey the context and that knowledge that they have before we lose this generation of workers. Very nice. OK. Well, everyone knows the famous productivity chart. Why, in your opinion, do you think that productivity has not improved within the industry? You know, it's a chart that I have is probably some degree of controversy with it. It's also helpful in another degree. You know, that chart and that data measures it at a total industry level, but not at the task level. And so actually, where I think we do it to services, we have driven a lot of task productivity into the industry through technology. I take our machine control and guidance technology. You're making Earth works 30% more productive as you move that dirt right the first time during that digital model into a machine model. A robotic total station and serving turned a two-person operation into a one-person operation. Use our software today and eliminate the rework before it actually happens. Task productivity, I believe, is delivered. System productivity is a different topic. It's that linkage of bigger, broader workflows. And I think that that's the delta in that survey. And I think that's actually unlock opportunity is to get to more systems thinking and systems optimization. After actually another one, I think I could put in there is construction itself has gotten a lot more complex in the last few years. Think about the nature of some of the big projects that are on these days, from that reshoring, enthroning of manufacturing to the data centers, to the nuclear projects around the world and there's a lot of complex work happening. So would you say that the opportunity exists within this system's thinking layout right now? I think the opportunity is to actually link people, data, and workflow, link that work between the office and the field, link that work between the stakeholders and, let's say, in the process, from those surveyors to the architects to the engineers, into the contractors, general contractors, subcontractors, and through the owners, like moving it throughout the stakeholders across the lifecycle continuance, continuance. So from that feasibility design bid build operate. Think about linking the value chain and the participants in that value chain. And I think there you then have an opportunity to unlock the system. - Mm-hmm, okay, very cool. So I guess it's obvious in recent times, well, maybe it's not obvious. So between 20 and 20 and 20, 22, maybe $50 billion of venture capital, I know the figures kind of changed depending on what publication you read or whatever, but the rule is that the funding has increased into this space and at, like, quite a fast pace over the last few years or so. So we're looking at, like, obviously, the relation to productivity and productivity, actually not changing that much. As a result, not as a result, but at the same time, will this capital come into this industry? Where do the money go? - Where will it go or where has it gone? - Where has it gone? - Okay, fair question. I don't know that I've got the full taxonomy of how that breaks down, but I think more thematically, let me first say, you know, whatever the number is, that plus or minus that 50 billion, I love that the money comes into the ecosystem and to the industry. It's helping us all get better. And this is an industry that'll benefit from better. We participate in this. You know, we have our own corporate venture capital activities. We participate in startup accelerators. We work with universities around the world. We have joint ventures with partners. So we think about this innovation at a number of levels and in addition to what we're doing as well. What I think I would characterize most of the venture capital comes at tasks, at features. And often I think that money gets put to the feature more so than a business. And so the nature of venture capital, of course, is that it's high risk and most aren't going to work. It's what's, to me, is one of the things that's so amazing about entrepreneurs and that willingness to jump in and take the risk. And venture capitalists by proxy who know that most of what they invest in isn't going to work out. It's a beautiful form of capitalism. And I think where the ones that don't work is often when they build a feature not a business. - Okay, cool. So you may be, you can cred me if I'm wrong here, but I have here roughly 120 acquisitions in the last 20 years at Trimble. - It's about right. - And you let M&A when you're at the company in 2006. Well, sorry, when you joined the company in 2006. - Yeah, that was my first job. I worked in strategy and corporate development. It was just a great way to learn the company and the business. - Yeah, I don't know. There's been a relatively exciting acquisition of recent times with document crunch. So I'm hoping we can get onto that in a little while. But before we do, when you sit down with a CEO of a top tier contractor, let's say Scansker, software construction, back top tier, and whoever, you know the big names. And what are they consistently telling you that they need from a technology partner? - Yeah, three things that come up. The first is labor shortage. And I'm not telling you anything you don't know. When I say that, the industry is just so stretched on finding labor availability. So, you know, there's work that's on. Our customers have worked. They've got backlog, many, if not most, have more backlog than they've ever had. They're capacity-strained in order to be able to actually deliver that work. So anything that can unlock productivity and efficiency is adventurous. Anything that can help bring workers into the industry is helpful. I go back to our machine control technology. You know, we can make an inexperienced operator good and a good operator great. I mean, that's an excellent, to me, example of how technology can expand the size of the workforce that comes. and the second one would be around data and the unlocking of that data, particularly at the, say, larger and more sophisticated customers. I mean, it's not data for the sake of data. I think it's really around visibility and control. You know, as you, we all know, right, the projects are large to all our amounts, but the margins are thin and the risk can be high in managing those. So visibility and control over projects. And so how can these leverage data in order to do that? And of course, I'd say the data correlates to conversations that turn into AI. I mean, then the third one I noticed a shift in the conversations over the last couple of years is firms looking to consolidate the vendors they work with and wanting to work in a closer, more collaborative way, looking for more partnership. It feels like some different conversations I've had over the last couple of years than some of the years prior. So this is like a conversation about, oh, we have 150 software solutions, just to manage our site operations. We want to get that down to a, a, a temp for that or whatever. Yeah. And, you know, I'd say, obviously, firms operate so differently. Some of them indexing on the largest firms in the world, construction firms in the world. Some are very decentralized. They want to push out decisions and that includes technology decisions for folks to make up more autonomously on project sites themselves. And others are moving to be more central or they already were more central. I see that pendulum coming back more central. And it comes, I think all roads lead to data on that. If you're going to get more insight and broader insight and leverage data to unlock that visibility, you've got to have a tighter taxonomy of data and you've actually got about to access that more essentially. So I see a bit of a shift in that pendulum. This is probably this may be a controversial question to a publicly traded CEO, but they may ask anyway, what the conversation is behind closed doors that the industry isn't having publicly enough. I'll give you two, I think about the first one, probably not a surprise. I think it's the generational transition that we have of the workforce. It just feels like that trains coming, proxy here in the US, different, but an analogy is the social security trust fund is going to run out in a few years. That's just math. This is coming. And I'm not sure that we're doing enough about it. And so that's one of the reasons I answered that earlier question about CEOs and what to lean into in 2026 is how do we codify more of that context that the senior folks in the industry have. And in a data AI forward world, and that context is going to matter. So that's one. The second, I think about data sovereignty and security. This is a big deal. And it's hard to deliver, let's say, sock to compliance to establish the guides and guard rails around AI to make AI safe. It's complicated. We spent tens of millions of dollars a year on this at Trimble. I think it's not probably very well understood in the industry, just how much effort goes into cyber resilience. And that is one that I think it's, I'd say, it's talked behind some closed doors and probably not enough behind other closed doors. Interesting. Okay. At Trimble, we mentioned the document crunch acquisition already, great example of buy rather than build. What do you go through when you're deciding like, okay, let's, let's acquire or let's develop internally. So let's put some context around this. So Trimble is a publicly traded company. We're an S&P 500 company. That means we have shareholders, millions of shareholders actually. And I believe that we're paid to be capital allocators or as leaders of the company as operators. We're stewards of shareholder capital. So that means we have to put that capital to work to at highest and best use. Okay. So then, and that frame of your question, actually, I had a third one because the question to me is build by partner. And when we think about, you know, where we would, let's say the Chess Mose, we would make forward and how we think about where the puck is going and how we're going to skate to that. We'll always take a lens of build by partner. What's the best way to get there? So what's there? What does there look like? You know, we're a global company. We do business in 170 countries. We have global ambition, half of our businesses outside the US. We think about geographies on one axis. Now, where are the places in the world that we want to be and we want to invest in incrementally? And not just invest for today, but invest for the years to come. Like we operate, we call it a 343 cadence. We're always simultaneously trying to think about three months for quarters, three years and manage that short in the in the mid in the long term. And I'm calling three years long term because it actually feels like long term these days. So the other axis has a product or capabilities for probably better to call it capabilities. And we've got, we've got ideas of where, you know, we differentially want to invest to either fill gaps or create new avenues of competitive capability. I'm ready to unlock the goodness that we've got in the company on behalf of customers. Okay, so you get that two by two frame. Now you're thinking build by partner. All things equal, I would prefer to build. Okay, then so I think you really step back and you ask, why would you partner or acquire? So you have a partnership level. Now for a company of our size, I think we're pretty unique. Let's say in a partnership context with some of the joint ventures that we have. We have a joint venture with Caterpillar and the machine controlling guidance space of civil construction. We have a part, we have a joint venture with Hilti in the building construction trays. We have a joint venture with Nikon in the survey market and to help us serve the Japanese market. And we have a joint venture with the ag code in the ag space. So we know how to partner. Like we're not just, it's not just happy talk because everybody says they want a partner. We have, and we've been doing it for decades. And then you've got the build or excuse me, the buy lens. So my, why would we buy? And we obviously have been a positive over time. Well, we've got a big ambition. We have a mission to transform the way the world works. We don't say we want to make the world work a little bit better. We want to drive transformation when you think big like that. Guess what? I've been talking about systems thinking we think at the system level because we think that we think to unlock the productivity gap you need to link stakeholders in the ecosystem across the value chain of our of the built environment. So we'll think about capabilities that we just don't have and we're not confident enough that we could build ourselves. We think about speed. We think about an installed base in the market. You know, if you've got a really strong installed base and you have a market leader, I think it stands to reason that you can execute your strategy better if you have a cultural fit and you can make the numbers and you can make the numbers work. I also think about bringing added a DNA into the company. And so that will also hit our lens is often acquired companies, very, very often actually. Companies that we acquire make us better. And I think you see in a lot of big companies that acquire as they come in on day one with the answer and it's like the board comes in and we're going to tell you the new way to work and here's all your new systems and processes. I think we've been pretty good over time. Actually, I think very good over time of taking the best of companies that come into Trimble and those partnerships so that we can make the collective whole better. Yeah, I've heard from some of the entrepreneurs that we spoke to, they've been acquired by Trimble how much, how much like the thinking was behind the culture that you guys bring to help that decision making on why Trimble was the right acquire for them. So what you say rings true through the conversations we had. What have you learnt through 120 acquisitions? Are they each different? You always want to start with people and culture. The best idea will fail if the culture doesn't work and the people don't work. I think about integration and how to have intentional integration and I think we've gotten better at this over the years. There's not a one size fits all. You have an investment thesis when you do an acquisition or a partnership, a strategic rationale. And the integration needs to really mirror that deeply and there's times when you need to really fully integrate something right out of the gate. I think there's other times when it's perfectly appropriate and not do that and to take one's time in order to bring the best together. But it all comes down to the strategic rationale and in that respect, there's 120 acquisitions. I think there's almost 120 different spoke approaches to how you integrate. Cool. Let's move on to the AI strategy now. As I mentioned earlier, the acquisition of document crunch, what now may be two or three months ago from now. It looks like the strategy is to combine vertical acquisitions. across the entire platform and on top of your own data assets. So how do you think about which layer matters the most when you're thinking about AI from positioning and the workflow kind of angle? When I think about the rate to when we have it at Trimble, to me it's got a foundational basis of a rampant depth of capabilities. And there's a scale of industry context. And I often talk about that in the form of trillions, billions, millions and thousands. Trillions of dollars of committed capital programs run through Trimble systems. We have millions of users of our software around the world and hundreds of thousands of instruments and machines in the real physical world operate on Trimble. There's a corpus of data that I think is extraordinarily unique. I look at Trimble that which is our common and connected data environment that for us is that digital backbone that's connecting the continuum. Tens of millions of projects have been created on connect tens of millions of users. Dozens of petabytes of data. It's extraordinary when I think about let's say an acquisition like document crunch. Think about putting that risk intelligence layer, AI based risk intelligence layer on top of that data set with trillions of dollars of construction that run through with millions of projects running through it with a global go to market arm to provide the reach for that category. And that's why we're so excited about it. So that's a trillions millions millions thousands lens to come at it. If you're coming more at a technical layer of of of of AI. I mean there's there's there's okay. There's a layer of the proprietary context and that correlates to the data set that I'm talking about. There's a layer set of ground truth that it happens at that intersection of the physical and the digital in the office and the field. There's a layer of and I go back to that cyber topic. There's a layer of access rights and say they I. That AI governance the data governance. That all security protocol the matter that's actually it's some level perhaps the most foundational of that. We have and are developing we have and continue to develop an agentic AI layer of frame to have as all of Trimble and construction. Because by doing so we can build in AI capabilities into each of the solutions that we're selling when we do that our customers are generally use multiple many of them. I should say use multiple solutions that we offer. And we think there's extraordinary value and that as you move from application to application that you've got a common interface. In this case I'll say an AI interface and think about the dilemma and how the AI can hold that context of that thread. So we believe deeply in a shared components and those capabilities that cut across everything we're doing because we see ourselves both as an application and a platform company. And increasingly as a platform company. And in doing so that means we need to have Trimble answers so we can connect that data and connect the workflows. So very long answer to what you probably thought was a simple question. No, it's a great answer. It makes complete sense. Yeah. I actually come to like Trimble worried about the foundational companies like open AI and profit Google and to some extent, panther entering into the industry like how do you. How do you maintain Trimble and like a world that's rapidly changing in these people. Guys doing more and more and more. I think I have to be humble to begin with. We say our belief system at Trimble is within and through it would capture that in three words belong grow innovate when we say grow is a be humble and intentional. So humility. They're, I'll say they're powerful. They're compelling. They're coming from them. By the way, we're working from them with them were utilizing their technology like we have to get better. And I like that. I like to compete. So I like that. The venture ecosystem invests in the industry. I like that the LLMs are in the industry. That makes us be better to continue to win and earn the business from our customers. We have to be humble. I don't think he can be dismissive of where the model companies will go. And I also think we can be confident. We have the context, the domain. We've got that trillions billions millions and thousands. You can't replicate that overnight. We have trust. We have brand. I don't think you disrupt overnight or that somehow commoditizes overnight. Embrace the tools work with them learn from them. We see ourselves as a platform company is to use AI within the tremble solutions you are using. And if you want to be headless use it inside of a tremble ecosystem like why go somewhere else? Why are you seeing the most value from AI right now? Both from a customer perspective and maybe you can also share some internal stuff. From a customer perspective perspective. Hey, let me give a shout out to Josh and the document crunch team is one of the reasons we. We're so compelled by them is this risk management and contract intelligence. And we're so much more than we can do. Well, to that that kind of work. We see. Good outcomes when we're doing take off. And it's really probably really more of a machine learning algorithm from AI as opposed to generative AI. But the I mean we're seeing 60% productivity when customers are using that. So I'm trying to do a lot of things. I'm trying to do a lot of things. We're for sure busy. Very cool and I have to ask this because you said it in the quickfire round about overrated technology and construction and they I did come up So where are you not seeing the what do you think they're kind of like high-pore perhaps not quite ready or You just you just don't personally buy into it or even at Trimble. I think AI with that industry context is Is hard so I think I'm a believer that context matters. So just the pure sort of generic AI I just think it's it's it's not that it's not helpful. It's doesn't match the hype and So it's sort of think about that delta between the reality and the hype and you've seen that data I think it was from one of the consulting companies About how many enterprises are seeing ROI and the investments they're making in in AI And if I take reflect on our own journey, you know a couple of years ago There would have been 2024 time frame. Yeah 2024. I Was in a GSD mentality with AI just get stuff done let a thousand flowers bloom like just Just go You that like just like you know no Cons in a way you could say no constraint no top down like just experiment and Try it and then boy we were doing a lot of things and actually in a way we started doing too many things I'm like, okay, well, we needed to bring intentionality to that so 2025 the theme became GSD plus intentionality equals velocity We needed to trim some of those Flowers that were blooming and get more and get more focused and when I think about the hype That's around AI a lot of it can be the the the head game Of AI AI itself is not going to fix everything in fact Increasingly I don't see this as a technology problem. The seat is a human problem and To get the unlock of AI I think it requires rethinking organizations requires rethinking how we work and I don't think we're having enough of that conversation So why I say it's overhyped if you think just because we say the word AI that's saying it will make it so you're gonna fail I mean if you're just throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks, you know most of it's not going To stick if you're not getting at the human aspect of this I think you're gonna find disappointment and That's why I would use that word overrated AI for the sake of AI. It's like how do we think about AI is a force Multiplier for the work we already do It's different mindset. Yeah, what was like the structural difference between hardware plus software versus pure software Well, more hardware and software on purpose, you know, and like we believe that's the That's the real unlock is to connect The office in the field to connect the physical and digitally you actually have to connect the hardware and software You know what I often use as an example is The phone Would and it's an apple would Apple be apple without this they own the rails out into the field Would apple be apple without this I submit the answer is a hard no Yep, I'll do it around trip. I think is singularly unique about Trimbo. It's why I'm such a big believer And what we do in reality capture and surveying what does a surveyor do a surveyor creates a digital model of the physical earth That geometry in a model starts with the surveyor out in the field very often starts starts with that survey out in the field Or if it's in a building and the majority of and what's a vertical construction is is renovation and start with that 3d laser scan Because there probably wasn't an as built Model provided for that. So I'm going to call that a a surveyor a survey workflow anyway Creating that digital model of the physical earth it starts in the field and by the way our roots started in the field Charlie Trimble founded the company in 1978 On the heels of Loran and and later GPS. We don't have the GPS We all use today In the way we use it if it wasn't for Charlie and the invention I'm there and there's a whole Great backstory on how about how that even came to be like so we're a company that thinks about precision We think about in the field we think about millimeters Don't think about meters. We think about millimeter level accuracy So it stands to reason as we came to the office and we got into businesses and mechanical electrical plumbing steel concrete We thought about highly accurate constructible models and to be able to link that constructible model Out to the field for precise layout So we came from the field Into the office other started in the field and then now start to think about bridging going to Out into the field first from the office to the field When I think about the landscape in general I'm not threatened by the landscape. I actually embrace the landscape This is a market that is large. It's global. It's underserved. It's under penetrated The nature of construction itself is hugely fragmented. You know this everybody listening to this knows this Stands to reason that the technology landscape is fragmented then as a result Nobody does everything despite what sometimes we we or they may want to profess We need to have the interoperability like the co-op petition Embrace that we know I know the CEOs of our I call them peers more than I call them competitors And we have that's how we make interoperability agreements at times. It's aren't perfect by the way. I get I get that The concentric circle of real say friction is actually smaller. I think than most Most people think we're often are sitting alongside other technologies We think our customers can get more when they're linking more of what we do Together we think about building an extensible ecosystem. So let's say some of that VC landscape that we were talking about earlier We think deeply about third-party developers building on top of our platform because we know we can't do everything I go back to 170 different countries. We cannot possibly know every corner case use case regulatory framework Design standard in every market, but we've got customers and partners in darn near every market that often do know What needs to happen in that last final mile? So we like that extensibility others might call it competition I call it choice And I'm comfortable in a world. Let's say if there's choice choice between ourselves and competitors that We can show why we think we're providing a better solution and that's on us to be able to do that Okay last one on this and then I want to get into some of your philosophy as a CEO and how you go about your personal operation and managing things Trimble if you are think if you are Entrepreneur building in the construct or in fact Let me ask you more directly You take it how you want if you were tomorrow deciding you're leaving Trimble and you're going to build a construction tech startup software startup It could even be hardware technology. Let's just call it technology. What would it be? Now that's a tough question because I'd like to think that that's what we're building At at Trimble Today because we've got a point of view on where we have the Where we have gaps and where we think there are opportunities Opportunities to innovate I It would I have to say something around Data something I think a lot about These days is how do we unlock more of this trapped data? How do our customers unlock more of that trapped data? But it's the same for us is how do we unlock more of that The trapped what I think is trapped data You know and you could say that there's the um Structured in the unstructured data Certainly different points of view on what AI Make it easier to access and utilize the unstructured data. I think I'll make it easier, but I don't think I'll make it easy So there's probably something in this taxonomy of unstructured data and unlock there um that I would be Super intrigued at let's say on my own. So it's my inner nerd. I'm wanting to get at the data. I'm an analytical guy So I want to understand this yeah nice. Okay cool. Okay last 10 minutes or so. Let's talk about um Your your operating system at Trimble so what does a week look like as Rob Painter? I would think about roughly the following there's working on the business and there's working in the business I think working on the business and I'll describe what that is is maybe 40% of the time working on the business is maybe 60% of the time and I love asking other CEOs this question like where do you spend your time because it is such a scarce um resource um such a um resource So when I think about working on the business um to me that's the capital allocation and I'm thinking time people money like the resources of Trimble where we putting that That's the thinking about the vision and the strategy of the overall company that's thinking about the acquisitions, it's thinking about the partnerships as a public company, have them spend time with our investors, spend time with our board of directors. Think about the organizational structure of the company as the organizational structure, serving the strategy. I do believe that it should work as strategy structure systems. So, in the moment things are changing fast. I'd say in the world and I think that's demanding different organizational structures and different methods and ways of working. So, I call that on the business. In the business, that spending time with our customers, that spending time on the quarterly reviews or long-term range strategy reviews, that spending time with our teams out in the field. So, I try to intersect time with every time I'm doing site visits, I'm doing customer visits as well. We're a global company, so the travel is reasonably intense. I'd probably travel 40 to 50 percent of the time. I think the last few weeks, I was in London, Romania and Germany. I've got a trip coming up that'll have me doing some trimble work in Africa and in the Middle East and in India. So, trying to stay close to the markets, to the teams and to the customers. And I think now more than ever, it's like really trying to get that pulse as well of how are we managing in an AI forward world? How are we managing change internally and how are our customers? What's the pace at which they're moving and wanting to change and how do we stay with them on that journey? How do you stay connected to like, triple is what how many employees? 12,000. How do you how do you stay connected to 12,000 employees? So, I've worked at Trimble for 20 years and you know, let me say like complete privilege. This place has changed my life. I've gotten to see the world literally through the lens of Trimble. Some of the coolest experiences in my life I've had because of this because of this company, just a total privilege to be able to do this job. I grew up in the company. I didn't come in as a CEO of the company. I know a lot of people and I know the business well as a result. So at one level, you know, 20 years, you better be able to keep up with the company. If you've worked there that long, you know, certainly the travel helps with that to stay close to people. During COVID, I learned how to be good at doing video updates. I don't love hierarchy. Even though I understand I'm at the top of a hierarchy in an organizational work. I love talking to people at the call face doing the actual work, trying to find that ground truth. And my job, you got to find people who will tell you the truth because they're certainly a bias of, you know, tell me what I think can happen. Tell me what I want to hear. So finding those people that'll keep you grounded. I find my ways to do that. And often that's through the skip levels and setting tone for the culture in the organization. This part of why I love doing a video update is you're not going through our traditional hierarchy. I'm just going straight to 12,000 people. Here's what's mattered. Here's what's going on. It's me and right here. Though I don't have a script or a production studio. It's like, hey, here's the things of the last month that are on my mind. Here's what I'm observing. You know, every now and then what we do is certainly pull surveys of the organization engagement surveys. So you can kind of help calibrate a care where do I need to spend more or less time on things that are going well or say less well. Every now and then, if you have the stomach, go look at the external sites that, you know, have the employee sentiment on companies and leaders in those company. You want a taste of a slice of humble pie or do that once a quarter. Now keep your ground. Stay grounded. Yeah, just bring yourself back down off the experience of really great news. Who is a business leader? You've studied most closely. Or you perhaps look up to? You know, one of many, many, many privileges of this job is I get to meet so many leaders of some of the very biggest, most progressive, most innovative companies in the world. And I put that in that category of working on the business. I like to be able to talk to other leaders even outside of our industry to understand how they're approaching change, how they're approaching geopolitics. When you play in as many places we do around the world, there's a slice of my job, a small slice that spends, it's spent with legislators trying to, trying to follow policy and where we can help shape and advocate for what we think is good for, for the industry. So I feel like I got this composite view of leaders. I get to spend time with and I've been around. So I'll give you a different answer on this. So I listened to this commencement speech that Roger Federer gave about, I think it was three years ago at Dartmouth College. And so, you know, so he tells the story right over his professional career. He played around 1600 matches, which is remarkable, right? To think about that. Yeah, he won over 80% of those matches. And in an individual sport, that's an astonishing number of 180% of those matches. And so he goes on in this speech to talk about or to then ask rhetorically, what percent of points did I win? I'm over that career where I won 80%. You know, most people write, they give you the big number. He won 54% of the points. Four. That's unbelievable. And I'm so interested in the mindset it takes. And he talks about, it's, you know, you put that loss, that loss point behind you and each next new point is the most important point. Like you're not going to win every point. When the points that matter, like, right, it's the, it's the, it's the mindset of that that I think is an extraordinary unlock. And so I think there's all kinds of leadership principles to be unlocked from that speech that he gave. So the 80% and the 54%. I mean, that's to me is, that's perseverance. That's determination. And I told you about I had this, you know, the GSD in 2024 and intentionality in 2025 by word in 2026 as a finished word. It's called Sisu SISU Sisu. It's difficult to translate word. But this word means the ability to take action and the face of uncertainty. And if there was ever a time we need a mindset to be able to take action in the face of uncertainty, I think we're living that. You didn't ask me about sass magaden or sass apocalypse or war in the middle in the middle east, the disruption and the opportunity, but the challenges, disruption, the pace of AI and what's that, what how that's affecting people and organizations. The courage they take action in the face of uncertainty. I think there's an extraordinary leadership principle that sits within side that one simple word. I've been thinking a lot of that. Very nice. One very last one then what do you do outside of Trimble that makes you better in Trimble? Okay, so I'm based in Colorado here in the US. I live in Boulder, Colorado. Talk about being a lucky person to be able to live in Colorado. I'm a hiker, I'm a climber, I'm a biker, I'm a skier. Two weeks ago, I had an opportunity to go out with a customer and a partner to do a survey of the highest peak in Colorado. And so when one of your days at work is going to climb the highest peak in Colorado of 14,000 feet to take Trimble kit up and do a measurement of a high point. You know you're a blessed person. In 2008, I got to do something similar. Trimble sponsored the first African team to survey Kilimanjaro and got to go climb Killy with the team and take our kit up there. I actually put a monument up there to create that most precise measurement. We were the first technology provider that created the survey of Mount Everest to get that precise measurement. That kind of stuff is near and dear to me. So I moved to Colorado 25 years ago to be near these mountains that I'm looking at as I turn west and look out of my office. That's what I do because you know what, if you want to feel small in the world and you want to, and sometimes you need to be humbled, go push yourself out in nature. And it's like I feel like it's one of the, maybe it's the only, but maybe it's one of the, maybe the only place where I can go and like really disconnect. I feel my mind is always churned and it's that hamster wheel and that hamster wheel is, I think, for all of us right now is going at a pace that none of us have have ever seen and it can be exhausting at times. And so to me, that's the That's my reset. Now I'm being outside. Yeah, there's something truly beautiful about the mountains and being away. I think a whole place is in nature. That's one place I'd like to be as well. So Rob, thank you so much. Let's send this here. Yeah. Thank you. Hey, thanks for the invitation. Glad this worked out. Love what you're doing. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thanks Rob.