Trewley Precious: The Real Cost of Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives

- Endless summer escapes start here. Travel the worlds of Netflix IRL. Inspired by fan favorites like Stranger Things and Squid Game. Brave the upside down. Face off with the front man. Play leveled up arcade games. Shop exclusive merch. And enjoy themed food and drinks. Beat the heat. Play, eat, and shop on repeat at Netflix House at Galleria Dallas. Bring your crew and save. Get your tickets today at netflix.com/house. - Hank joined BJ's Wholesale Club the day he became a father of 30. - I coach football. - Now Coach Hank saves up to 25% off grocery store prices. 30 pounds of pasta, three cases of protein bars, 75 sports drinks. - And that's just pre-game. - He knows teamwork, and BJ's knows savings. This is your home, Coach. Home of the save. Join for just $20 at bjs.com/mesquite and save 10 cents per gallon for six months. Open soon. Limited time offer, new members only. BJ's, home of the save. - Your family was on "Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives." Are you the youngest? - I'm the youngest and the prettiest, Paul. You've got to act that bit in, or it don't count. I'll let you re-say that. It's all right, Paul, we're friends. - When you think about it, though, what has this show cost you and your family? - God, who the fuck am I? - I am a content creator. I actually press, get to know. - You and your sisters, you say, you're just like the Kardashians, but what? - Fat, broken on benefits. - And so then, can we unpack your life? - Baby, unpack it. - Be prepared. - Some people hear the word gypsy, straight away they just make some caravan jokes. We don't all live in caravans, you know? You know, I've lived on my cancer estate my whole life. - I always had the idea of loving videos. Also, it was like, "Dad, I'm proving this." Like, "Validate me, love me, love before you go." So I had to learn how to perform and turn the pain into power. - What about you and dating? - What about it? I think when you've been brought up in fear and anger, you don't see it as fear and anger. You see it as home. So I just left him. A week later, I found out my dad's cancer's terminal. Sorry, I don't know where my eyes were in. - When we had to say bye, it's weird because I just said, I was telling him to go, but I was begging for him to stay. - But that's what I want to represent. I want to represent them girls that didn't have a choice, that had been in survival their whole life. - Truly, you're the type of person that comes around once every few years. Is there anything that you want to make sure we talk about in this conversation? - 100%. I just want to make it clear that. - Look, pause with me for just a second. Today marks 100 episodes of We Need to Talk. And honestly, I just want to say thank you. Now, whether you've been with us every single week since day one, or you just drop in when a guest catches your eye, I see you. I truly appreciate you. Every comment, every share, every time you show up, it matters. We're building a really special community here. If you want to support what we're doing without spending a penny, please take a second, and hit the follow button. It costs nothing, but it signals to the world that these conversations matter. Thank you for being on this journey with us. Now, let's get started. I just basically binged the show, and the correct title of the show is. - Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives. - Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives, right? Very eye-grabbing. - Yeah. - Ear-grabbing. - Very clever. - Title, very clever, very clever. Lots of positive, but also lots of challenging commentary. Very successful show, right? I enjoyed learning about you, your family, and your community through this project. When you think about it, though, what has this show cost you and your family? - I feel like people are a bit late to the train. I've had this my whole life. So what it has cost me is a trigger. I feel triggered. I feel like I'm a little girl again, and I'm defending myself. My whole life, that's all I've ever had to do, is defend myself, what I am, who I am, what's happened to me, and then showing people who I am of TikTok. People are offended, and I don't know why they would be, because the show doesn't say the secret lies of all gypsy wives. It's about me and my family, and I don't know why they're offended by a truth. My dad is four. My mom is half, and I am from a poor estate. I'm not going to sit and pretend I'm from somewhere posh. Like, well, how would that work? You know what I mean? - Yes, yes. Can we then unpack your life? - Maybe unpack it. Be prepared. - You know, I can't wait to walk down this path with you. - Cool. - Right. And so let's go back to where you were born. - So I was born in Colchester Hospital. I was two months early. My mom had an abruption, and she hemorrhaged, and she almost died, and I almost died. But the doctor said that if she was in the car park when she come, we both would have been dead. - Really? - So from birth, I was two months early. I didn't have a lot of oxygen. So they told my mom, like, she's going to be very special, like mentally and physically. She'd probably not be able to walk and talk. And obviously, when you get told that by a professional, I can only imagine, like, my mom is still on my birthday. It's really weird to me. It's because of the PTSD she's obviously having in that month of it happening. - Can we talk about this? - Yeah. - All right, so this is, I didn't, I wasn't aware of this. - Yeah. - So, all right, so are you the youngest? How many siblings are there? You've just got to add that bit in. Sorry, it don't count. It don't count, Paul, I'm sorry. I'll let you re-say that, it's all right. - Well, I mean, you know, so-- - I'm still waiting for you to say it, Paul. - Well, I mean, I haven't, I actually, I think your brother is the prettiest. - Are you actually writing that? You're lucky I can't say what I can say, Paul. - So, all right, so you are, according to you, you are the prettiest. I've seen all-- - According? Oh, I was getting real passionate now, wasn't it, Paul? Paul, are you the people in my hate comments? You and your crow? - No, no, I just want to say, I've seen so many of your sisters. I think they are, they're all attractive. - Yeah, but I'm not, I'm like, it's not, I'm not cussing, they're stunning, but I'm still-- - I'm not cussing. - I'm just standing up. - All right, all right, so okay. - I'm only joking, by the way. - I know, I know, I know. So, are you the youngest as well? - Yeah, I'm the youngest. I've got nine sisters and I've got three brothers. - Okay, so nine sisters, three brothers. So, what do you believe the impact of you being, it was an early childbirth, two months, how do you think that impacted your mother and your father? - So, my dad, God rest his soul, he lost a child when he was younger. She was two, she died of meningitis, bless her. And he was already mentally unwell from this, obviously, of course, and very protective on what we did. That's why even more of the rules were so like, you just feel like you're in a prison, this type of thing. And then my mom was just so traumatized by obviously the birth. Yeah, it could have been a fatal, fatal birth. And I think that's how, when you are just always traumatized, I think you just live in that anxiety or fear all the time. - Yes. - And like, I'm going to shop, she'll go, "Be careful, I've heard people are kidnapping people "from the shop." And I'm like, you're making that up. That is not real. - Yeah, yeah. - It's just pure anxiety of her bird being at the nest. That's how I could describe it. - And I would also say, and then you're her last child. - Yeah. - So, she didn't have any more children. - No. - Did, was that- - That was the cutoff, yeah. - Oh, that was, was that the reason? - Yeah, she always says, I would have had another seven children, I think. I couldn't. I spent the four. She went, "All that was going in my brain. "Who's going to look after my kids? "I'm going to die, and my kids ain't going to have a mom." - Okay, all right. And we'll get into your parents, but just as far as where you're from. So that was Colchester where you were born, and then where were you then raised as a little girl? - My estate, like near Clacton. It's very like, you know, a bit rundown and that, but you've got loyal people there, lovely people there. I don't see it as rundown though. I know it sounds silly, 'cause I know from the eye, obviously it is. But to me, they've got what wealth I couldn't, but they've got loyalty, they've got love, they've got time, they've got effort. I couldn't buy that. Paul, you're a very successful man. Could you buy that? - No. - Right. - I mean, one is I appreciate you saying I'm successful. - You are, of course you are. - I mean, you know, honestly, I always look at myself as trying to be. - Yeah, same. - You know? And I could see that same hunger and hustle in you. - Where did yours come from though? - I think it comes from where, the same thing, probably where it comes from for you, where I was born. You know, I was born in Jamaica, Queens. - Sorry. - Oh, wait. - Yeah. - Pull your back, Paul. Go on. Say your truth about it. - I love it. Every time I say Jamaica, Queens, I want you to do that. So, you know, I was born in Jamaica, Queens. And then, you know, in Jamaica, Queens. There you go, I was testing you. - Be light, be light. - I was testing you, I was testing you. But it was very humble. I think in the UK, it would be called a council estate. - Mm-hmm. - In the United States, it's called housing projects. - Oh, the projects. - The projects. - I'm in the room. - Right. And I think a lot of my drive came from seeing, not just seeing people not make it, but then also seeing people make it. But seeing people make it in different ways. How would you describe the area that you grew up in? - What, to like a stranger, like how I would describe it? - Yes. - Well, besides the obvious, like the obvious, like deprived and stuff, I'd say loyal, kind, funny different paths of life i think that's why i'm really grateful for it because um i wasn't the only gypsies on the we're not the only gypsies on the estate so yes there was some gypsies on the estate there's also some gorges which means like non-gypsies on the estate there was everyone just comes from different paths of life everyone's going through a different struggle and i know it sounds weird but i respected that okay like i didn't have that weird judgment that people would think i would have if anything i'd i admire the struggle to be honest all right so you just said something which also is a term that i didn't know until preparing for you to come in is you said there were some gorges yeah gorgeous so so what's that that terminology so that just means like um non-gypsy that's someone that isn't one like they'd say you're a gorger they're a good like but it can be used bad that's why i don't really i've never used it bad i always say oh my mom's a gorger because she's a non-gypsy but people can use it in a in a racist term if they want ah okay i didn't realize that too all right but it's all right though you haven't been don't think like you have you ain't okay like you can go she's a gorger that's just stating she's a non-gypsy but if you were like you dirty that's you're just giving it that they're not like you from your bloodline all right i follow you i follow you and so then you said your father is a gypsy is a gypsy yeah so he so now help me with this part too and i love to talk even more about this later is gypsies travelers uh uh is it romany and roman eye as well yeah but they're they're gypsies okay gypsies and um a lot of travelers are irish it's about just where they come from like in their backgrounds they're just different but i get why people would get confused because they do similar similar things but my dad was um a gypsy he was born in 1953 and he was born in a wagon the side of the road so he was born in a in the woods like near the woods um you know he had a very very strict and poor upbringing his dad wasn't around she was a very um hard-working woman she'd work the fields he'd work the fields but he had a he had a very different him and my mom had very different upbringings my dad was this like a strict gypsy boy could go out he was first nicked when he was 10 10 years old for street robbery wow okay imagine that being 10 year old having to go rob someone because you're hungry and that's what i'm saying i've just been i've been raised by people who are angry at that which is very confusing yeah because i admire them i think they're insane like all right i'm not saying that they were you know you know top tier you you know you could never fault them for anything but did they do the best with what they had yeah yes 100 your mother and your father they met in what the 70s must have been no in the 80s oh in the 80s okay so so they meet in the 80s i would imagine though that to marry outside for your father to marry outside of his community would have been a no-no yeah absolutely of course it was so so how is it that that the that they they met and fell in love to be honest with you um my dad had other wives before my mom right and obviously he met my mom whatever my mom you know no matter being a she is a very prideful strong independent wouldn't take shit wouldn't like women my dad was obsessed with my mom my dad was obsessed with my mom loved my mom no matter being like not being a traveling woman or anything like that because she still had traits of one and he married other traveling women before that they obviously didn't do a good job as my mom did did they because he stayed with her so sorry i'm getting defensive about my mom sorry yeah yeah so you say your mom had traits of a traveler woman yeah like tics that's what i'd call them like little tics that i think as a traveling man you would like like my mom was very poor deprived cancel estate kid yeah anything she got she'd wash and scrub clean keep it nice and pristine what she did have even if she had to walk again the next day she'd wash it and scrub it always been very like this is my home this is my safe place and um you know it's actually quite nice obviously i miss my dad every day but the one thing i do i actually do love i feel like my mom's a little bit calmer like if there's a bit of mess like paul even having this drink here my mom would lifted that up wiped all it down scrub the table breathe like do you know how hard it is being with someone so manic manic manic manic just calmed down and now oh she ain't got to press not impress my dad because she was with him but like she can chill a bit it's not you know you're not gonna have a man coming and going why ain't that done why ain't this done why ain't that done why ain't that done you can just be women and be chill a bit okay i see it i see it so so they fell in love then and now you said in the 80s how hard was it for them to love each other because you know were they in love with each other and were they in love with each other and were they in love with were their families in support of them being together that's a very good question you just asked there when you said how hard was it for them to love each other um so my my whole life growing up like mom's side hated dad's dad's side hated mom's that was kind of it and we're the product of both and we'd get from both you know we weren't good enough for them and we weren't good enough for them so i just had to create my own lane but my dad did like did love my mom like i can't say that and my dad was a very i'm not talking bad on him i love him dearly with everything i've missed him terribly he obviously wasn't mentally well and he wasn't my whole life and but and after you lose a child i feel like you can only love another child as much as you can until you're so scared of them being taken from you but he loved my mom like with no doubt in my head yeah but can we explore their love because i think our parents love often impacts how we view love yeah how we view sacrifice and what i keep going back to is i know from all the research i've read that when women are in relationships where their family does not support it then separation and divorce is abnormally high and so in the 80s for your mother to be in a relationship with someone who is from a different community and her family is from a family doesn't support that person or their family it must be incredibly hard for her those circumstances must be very hard for her i think that's why i'm so defensive over her because i wouldn't let no one say what they've ever said to her when i weren't here it's not happening i can't have that i'm not having my mother is a good woman a very good woman and like sorry i don't know my having people say about her it's been really hard just because sorry just because the amount of time she's had to fight for who she is and just having to always fight for her and you think i'm gonna let strangers go on it it's not happening yeah it's always been us against the world and it always will be and everyone jumping on this hate bandwagon you're late you're late to the party this has been happening my whole life yeah and i'm not going to let strangers go on it i'm not going to let strangers go on it i'm not going to yeah boring yawn no i can see it i i can and and and you know and oh yeah there's two oh you wouldn't tell me that earlier did you oh you want my makeup streaming all right you told you in the comments i didn't want you to put your makeup on that beautiful shirt there thanks is the reason why i wanted us to to begin here and spend a moment here is because your story precedes you right and how you show up how i show up the foundations of it begin with a hundred percent people who created us hundred the circumstances they were under and i can't help but think how hard it was for your mother and to know that begins i could begin to know you even more you know so clearly your mother had it hard yeah very hard sounds like your father had it hard yeah from both sides but it was really hard for me to um i do empathize with my dad and i do but i feel like where he's so i don't see him as this like flower like my mom's a flower to me even though she's like a explosive flower but my dad was just this strong military like that's how he reminded me just so stern so strict so i not that i couldn't have that empathy for him but i couldn't explore that empathy for him because he wouldn't let me do it and i couldn't let him do it and i couldn't let him do it and i see it i see it do you know even on my dad's deathbed this is how strong thing he was he's in his deathbed everyone's in the living room all my brothers all their friends who love dad and respect him they're all between 30 and 40 upwards they're all in there like this and i hear one of them go do you think we should leave do you do you think we should leave yet do you think dad would want us to leave or stay my dad with all of his strength on his deathbed god bless him went leave like this i saw 10 men in their 30s and 40s go all right so he said thanks for having us kissed them on the head and went thank you bye they all left like children because they're all they're all programmed too wow and they're in their 40s and they're all literally it was like if you went up now and i went up it was literally like a a program and it was so weird to see we all went okay but from the men at least yes that's what was weird i was like okay yes but my dad had that authority my dad was that man and that's what's even harder when i read comments that's what it's cost me because you know i'm not a man i'm not a man i'm not a man You can say what you want about me. I don't have to validate my identity to use. to no one's. Do not lie on my dad though. He's not even here. Don't even. And the things they've said about my mum, my dad would start a war in the whole world over her. Can I show you something? Yeah, of course. Can I put some lip gloss on? Oh, yeah, definitely. Thanks. Sorry, I feel bored. Oh, no. Not to trigger you there, girl. Sorry. I love you. Do you want some? Oh, no, no. No, no. What kind of lip gloss do you use? Give me. It's my one. Oh, that's your one. Yeah. That's the one that you. Does your wife like lip gloss and that? She does. Oh, girl. She does. This is the one that I saw on the show. Mm. That you and. The lip gloss and the lip gloss. and your manager was at. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. Thank you. I like it. I want to get your wife one. You know, sometimes I put a little, not gloss, but no, no. A little bit. A little bit. We'll cut that out. Yeah. All right. I want to show this to you. Yes, show me. And I want you to tell me roughly, because so you're in this photo, so roughly how old you are in this photo and what you could remember. If anything about this photo, what was happening? You look so healthy. I just love my dad. I just loved him. And some people might say like, you know, disciplinary, however you would want to put that, but I still loved him. He's all I know. Okay. Okay. So that's you and your dad. How old are you? Probably like four. Okay. Four. And how old do you think your dad is? Roughly in that? He'd be 54. Okay. There you go. And that's to your point? He's a very, and that's another clash with my dad. He was older. So when he disciplined me, it'd be something really like to the people I'm raised with in this generation. It's weird. He's not from this generation. He's from years ago. Yes. So I had this like real, you know, a little bit of discipline in me. Like having to prove myself to my dad. I don't know. It's really hard because I just wanted him happy. I think he was a very sad man in pain for me to lose his daughter. And, you know, when you haven't been taught how to regulate or to communicate, that can make you very angry. Yes. An angry man. And I feel like I dealt with a lot of that. But I love him. And I don't blame him. I love him dearly. I miss him every day. And I know what his ways are. And it wasn't anyone else's upbringing. It was mine. So. Okay. What can I say? So how strict was your father? I couldn't. You couldn't say anything in front of him. He was so reactive. He couldn't say nothing. You just couldn't. You just couldn't talk to him. You just couldn't. You just couldn't. You just couldn't. You just couldn't. You just couldn't. You just couldn't. You just couldn't. Like. Even if you were joking around swearing. He'd send you out the room. Or like. Even that. Like. Just like little rules. Like. If we were sitting here now. And say you're my daddy. If his friends walked in and out. I'd have to get up and leave. I'm not allowed in the room with other men. Like. Why would I be? It's like they see it. But then even that. I feel. Why am I getting kicked out of a room? Like. But I can only question this. Now my dad's dead. And even now. Like. I wouldn't ask my mum this. I wouldn't ask. And that's why people. I think some people are like. Oh he's so contradicting. No. My whole life. Has been contradicting. And I need to figure out what I like. And what I don't like. And what rules I do want. And what rules I don't want. Like. Yes. Yes. I can see. So even at this age. You're. You're wondering. Why certain rules apply to you. Was there. Did. And. I would imagine there's a double standard. Probably to your brothers. Not all the rules applied. The boys didn't have rules. Okay. It was just. Don't get nicked. Don't fight. But. You know. Like. Right. You being at this time. Don't be sleeping around. Don't be doing drugs. Don't be doing this. Don't be. It was nothing. It was literally. For us girls. Don't do this. Don't breathe a certain way. Don't burp. Don't do this. Don't laugh at the dinner table. Don't do this. Don't do that. Don't do that. Da da. The boys got little things. You know. The boys be at the table laughing. They'd get disciplined. If the boys said something rude. Like. Alright. You got a few disciplinaries. I just felt like I couldn't breathe. And they said to me. True. I've got so many memories of your dad. He was like. I remember. I'd have to come. There'd be about 20 of us. Coming to the door. To knock for your. To prove that you were going out with everyone. And then. Your dad would go. You got 30 minutes. And then they'd shout. Because where I'd play. It has to be. In voice. Distance. Oh. I see. So he'd just shout. Truly. And they said. I just remember you going. Boys I gotta go. Bye. And running home. Because I had to be in. Even though I'm. These boys are younger than me. I see it. I see it. How did. And I can hold on to that. Oh yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. And I'll give you all these. At the end. Oh thank you. That's sweet. I don't think he's going to keep it Paul. I might. Put that in your wallet. I know. You're going to start saying. That's your dad. Yeah. And that's my daughter. There. That's my daughter. Right there. Now. Those rules. Of you being. Within shouting distance. For example. Did those same rules. Apply to your sisters? Yes. But. It was a little bit different. Because. I feel like. My sisters were older. So. Me being the youngest. With Honey. My other sister. She's the second from youngest. It was really amplified on us. Okay. Like Honey was a young mum. She was young. Mum at 19. Like married at 19. Out. You know. Whatever. And my sisters were a little bit older. One of my older sisters. Isn't married yet. She likes tattoos. And this and that. I could not walk in. I know to everyone. It's like contradictory. But that is my life. Like whether people like it or not. I know. Okay. Are you joking? Just because Ruby has. Doesn't mean I can. What does that mean? We've all got different expectations. And we have to fit that. Ruby. We set expectations. She moved that box. She don't want to be in that box. She don't. She don't want to do that. Okay. You're 26. But quite honestly. You feel a lot more mature. Thank you. Than 26 to me. And it wasn't until. You know. I was in my. Probably late 30s. Early 40s. Where I began to view my parents with more grace. Yeah. And to know that. They did the best. They could. With what. They had. Had. And what they knew. And they grew up in different circumstances. Mm-hmm. Where they were more so. I think. Focused on survival. It's interesting. A lot of people don't realize this. About me. Is. But I think this is the circumstances. That I grew up in. Is. I have a very hot. Fuse. Hot. Cold. Yeah. So. So. That's me. At 18. Up to that point. There you go. Yeah. I was like. I was like. Yeah. You know. I was like. I was like. I was like. I was like. I was like. All the time. Anything would set me off. Not because you wanted to though. Yeah. Right. But I would fight all the time. Mm-hmm. But then I got to. A place where I said. You know. I can't fight. Right. Because. The consequence of that. Is going to be. You know. I lose this project. My boys are out of school. This happens to me. he was on the bed and I said to him, when we had to say bye, I just said, it's weird because when you walk into a room and you're saying bye to someone, I was telling him to go but I was begging for him to stay. It was really weird. And I said to him, go. I said, go and get your daughter. Go, just go and be free. It's all right up there. And I'll look after mum and the girls. And it's weird but I felt it. When I said it, I was like, no, it's all right, dad, I've got it. Go, it's all right. I'll take care of him. But I don't know why I had that because I'm the youngest but I think I just want to save my mum. I know that sounds a bit cliche but if you knew how much she'd been surviving her whole life, you'd know what I'm saying. And I'm at a point where I've been surviving because my mum and dad couldn't break, I'm not blaming them, but they couldn't break that generational thing. And I have now. And this stops here. This isn't going further. I'm not being immune to things I shouldn't be immune to. I'm not surviving anymore. I don't want to. Yes, you want to thrive. Yeah, I want to thrive, not survive. Yes, yes. That was powerful. Thank you. That was powerful. So school, how did socially, what was life like for you? Socially, I was actually right at school. In the sense of, well, primary school is a bit different because my school was in the estate. So with that, everyone had their own struggles. No one cared. I didn't even know that we were different until I got to secondary school. I didn't even know that me being a gypsy was different because I was on an estate where there's so much struggle. No one gave a fuck what we were. No one cared what we were. We didn't care what they were. They loved us. We loved them. That was it. So when I went to a secondary school, that's 30 minutes from where I live and is quite a bit prestige from where I'm from. I was, mate, I might as well have walked around with a tie on. I might as well have walked around with a tie on. I'll get on my fucking back. But obviously, I didn't, unless I'm going to sit here and say I allowed people to bully me or whatever, but it doesn't mean I didn't have to always defend myself. I always had to be on guard. But everyone did, I say that, but people did indict me in school. I won prom queen. Did you? Of course you did. Thank you, Paul. I was like, of course you did. Don't shout at me, Paul. Go on now. Yeah, I won prom queen. I won being the nicest student and that. So, you know, even though I did have challenges, and I will say this, Paul, I was sent to Alaska on a TV programme for being naughty in school. Really? Yeah. Wait, what is this? Yeah, it's called Extreme School. Extreme. OK, hold on, tell me about this. So, I was on CBBC, I was 13, and what actually happened was a boy scurfed my cousin up for being what we are. So, when I found this out, I approached him, "Little altercation happened, is what it is." But when this happened, the boy grasped me up to the school. But when the altercation happened, there was no cameras. So, when I went upstairs, I said, "I don't know what you're talking about." And then they went, "Well, he said that he hit your cousin." And I went, "You hit my cousin?" I was like, "Oh, you hit my cousin?" And then they sent. They passed me a letter and was like, "Truly, we think you need to apply for this." And then they loved me! OK, so then you had to go to Alaska. Alaska. for a full year, or no? No, no, for, like, ten days. For ten days. And we was there. But even that was intense, because I didn't know I was different at this point. I wasn't awake yet, if that makes sense. So, I go there and they'd be telling me how I've had my make-up, how I've got my hair, how I'm standing, how I talk. "I don't play that. Get your elbows off. Don't do this." So, I had people. I was getting the blueprint coming out of me again. I've got people judging me again. Yes. I've always been attacked. And I'm not saying that in a thingy way, but we have been. We've always been. had it from each side. Yeah, from each side. I could see it. And so. where, given all of this, right, I'm beginning to see at 13, 14, right, you're liked, but you're also loathed. Loathed. Loathed. Disliked. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah, I think I'm. I think people were intrigued by me, because I think they like my personality and that. But then when they know things, "Oh, she's from that state. "Oh, she's half-Chips. Oh. " Like, it's a bit like, "Oh, you have them little things "where they didn't just see me as truly." OK. So, then, where is your safe space at 13? I don't think I really had one. I'm not blaming my parents. I just think it was a very hectic house. Very chaotic. And I had to navigate through that. And I think my parents were navigate. Children, mentally, in the sense of, like, they're navigating. You know how I said earlier, I see them as damaged teenagers? In my head, they're damaged teenagers who had loads of children, trying to navigate it on their own, and both families hate each other. You can only imagine. What a safe space. Where am I going to go with my nan and grandad? What, so they can call me a gorger? What, go to the other side and call me a dirty pikey? How lovely. My safe space was that state. Me going out playing football with all the other kids that were rejected. That was mine. That's where I could be funny, it's where I could be safe, it's where I could be a tramp, it's where I could be a gorger, it's where I could be a pikey, I could just be me. I didn't have to worry about anyone. And they loved me for who I am. I could see it. And that's why you. Because I see you rep your estate. Yeah. Like, you rep it. Yeah. Yeah. I think some people think. I had an interview the other day, and the man sort of, like, hinted that I was showing it to get, like, clout or, like, laughs in the thing. Right. One, I've already got clout. Doesn't make sense. Sorry. Just saying. Don't make sense. Can I say, that was nice. Thank you. I've got clout. Don't make sense. I already got clout. Okay. Right. Secondly, I love my estate. It wasn't these gypsies dropping food off when my dad died. It wasn't these gorgers or these high-up influences. It was the people from my estate, waiting for their benefits to hit so they could drop me milk round, because they knew we couldn't leave our dad's side. Dropping cereal round. I even had, at the time, obviously, my dad was ill, so money weren't flowing how it was because the man of the house is dying. And I was doing gas and electric. I had a really good job. I had to quit it, work in a chip shop, so I could be close to him. I'd always bring fish and chips home every night, whatever. And when my dad died, someone from my estate come round with an envelope full of 500 quid and went, "I want to put this towards Uncle Sid's funeral." And we were like, "No, no, no." They were like, "No, no, no, I want to." And that is why it's such a big thing for me to give back. Yeah. Because your heart, your heart is in the estate. I can see it. I can see it. Yeah. Hey there. I just want to say thank you for choosing We Need To Talk. Doing this podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life, and I want to continue to share it with you. So hit follow and the bell icon. It takes just a second, and it helps us to continue to grow this podcast. So this is the part that I don't understand about your story. So was it 14 when you started to create content, but you didn't post it? No. I was younger. You were younger. I was about 11. Okay. I always had the idea of loving videos, like see YouTubers. But obviously, back then, YouTubers were only online if they were established. So when I was thinking about it, I weren't established, I weren't known, I was a kid. And I was like, "I'm going to do that." And it like, you know when you see something and you think, "Oh, that's what I'm going to do." Yes. It was literally like, "Oh, yeah. Me too." But what was it that you saw that you wanted to do? Because, you know, people get online and they do things that they don't want to do. You know, some people, the focus is makeup, sometimes the focus is comedy or we've had so many of these notorious YouTubers who are, they play games. What was it that you wanted to do? I think my motivation of it, firstly, was survival. I feel like I've, when I say performing since a kid, I don't mean in that way, but when you're trying to survive all different routes. You learn how to be funny, you learn how to block noise out, you learn how to ignore comments or getting hit or this and that, because you're so immune to it. So my mind was coming out of my immunity, I think, without even realizing. I think as a child, I obviously thought, "Oh, we can do something else." But it was so frowned, like my dad would never add it. I didn't even prove it until he went away, until he passed, sorry. Right, so that's why I'm so confused, because I would imagine how strict the race, the household was, that you shooting a video, saying anything and posting it would have been a complete no. Yeah, and it was. And it was for years and years. And then I hit about 17 and I just left college and I thought, "I really want to do YouTube." Oh, no, sorry, I just left school and I thought, "I really want to do YouTube." And then I started doing YouTube. It was like makeup content, but my luck didn't take it seriously, like a career. Like, it's just a bit of banter, like they think, "Oh, she's grown, she ain't gonna say no, ain't mental on there." And then I switched over when I was like 20 to TikTok and it just blew, like I found my audience. Okay. So when you switched over, right, was it makeup that you started doing? Yeah, I started to do makeup and that, I really wanted to be like an MUA girl and that. But then I actually realized I'm funny, funny, hot, like, do you know what I mean? Everything. Do you know what I mean? Big lips. I know exactly what you mean. Thank you. Yeah, there you go. No, but I mean, like, that's what I was saying about survival. Like, even when I was in school, I've always been a chubby girl. I've been chubby since I was about six. So you can only imagine being a fat cancer state pikey, half pikey, half not in the school. Jesus. I walked in and they'd say how, you know, and I was a little bit slower as well, mentally. And they'd tell me how fat I am, how stupid I am, all this, whatever, which is fine. But I had to learn how to perform and to turn the pain into power from young in the sense of like, I remember being called fat and I was playing football and I went, nickname me big blonde. So I was really young. And even then, being so young, trying to flip my script or being bullied, that's very, even though, oh, it's very clever though, why are you six trying to flip a script? That's very interesting. And that's what they'd say. They'd go big blonde. And then if someone called me fat, they'd go, duh, she calls herself big blonde. I'd just switch. I'd switch the whole thing. So you switched it and you would say it first to beat them to it? Yeah. I had to. I knew what I was. I'm not stupid. Like, you know, even now when people say things, I think, right, I'm not offended. I'm like, oh, you're a fat tramp from here. Yeah. I know. You've got it on video. I'm not. I've always been able to take it. That's why this, hey, it's kind of boring. It's like. I find this so interesting. Truly. Good. I'm glad you do. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. So much. So much. You're going to need a bigger pad, aren't you? I'm going to need another iPad, basically. So then when I hear you qualify right now, you talk about, say, your show. You talk about you and your sisters, you say, you're just like the Kardashians. What? Fat, broken on benefits. Okay. So when you say something like that. Yeah. Are you saying it to beat the thought of other people? Are you saying it as a preemptive, like, defense mechanism? I've never explored it that way until you just said it. Because of how you talked about how you would flip the script when you were. Yeah. 11, 13. So it sounds like you've been flipping the script for the last 10 years. My whole life. Your whole life. Yeah. I've always had to flip it. I always have. Like, even just from that, I could play football with everyone after that. I could regulate myself. It wasn't about them. It was about me. I could handle what they were saying. Because I put it out. Like you said, you're 20 when you get on TikTok. Yeah. Around 20. Yeah. Okay. And you said you found your audience. Yeah. Because your audience could begin to see you. Yeah. For more than just makeup. Yeah. What did they see? Just my life. How chaotic. How funny it is. Yeah. And little things that I do. You see, like me, walking barefoot to the shop. You'd be surprised how many people go, "Man, I'm sorry for that." But that's who I am. I've never worn shoes. I don't even want to wear shoes now. Can I take this off? Okay. You can take it. I'm so sick of acting posh, Rand. Hey, Paul. Hey, Paul. Hi, Paul. Get them off me. Get those shoes off. You can wear them. Who needs shoes? Isn't it? Who needs these shoes? Yeah, because that was almost like TikTok. Like, you literally took your shoes off, like, figuratively and literally. It's like you were just you. Yeah, and it was the first time someone went, wow, without, oh, you're this, you're that. It was kind of like, oh, I love who you are. And I was like, thanks, me too. What did you begin to show at 20 that you still, that you felt uneasy about because you thought your mother or father or family may become aware of? It wasn't about them being aware of stuff because I'm quite open. Like, I'm quite, you know, it wasn't like they were going to fly and tank out about me. It was more of the sense I didn't want to disrespect them and their rules. I didn't want to, you know, gypsies are very private anyway. I think that's why there's been, like, a big uproar and this and that. But we're still private. No one knows nothing about us. They think they do because what we let them know. Right. Same as you. No one knows nothing about you. You let them know what you want them to know. Yes. You're a performer. Yes. You know what you're saying. You just hit a major milestone on your socials. I hit a milli. Just a cool milli. So this is a million people follow you. Just on TikTok. Just on TikTok, you have a million people following you. What do you think? That says about you and what you're doing? I'm just grateful I didn't change from who I am. Like, you get a lot of people, why are you barefoot? Why are you this? Why are you that? And I've never explained it. I'm me. And then people that follow me see a bit of themselves in me. And I love that. I love that I can radiate to people if they're from bad backgrounds, abusive homes, relationship, whatever, you name it. And they can look at me and go, oh, she can make it out. And that's what's been lovely. Even, like, I was in that by the other day, Paul. Yeah, I know you chucked my nails out earlier. I did. I like them. Thank you. I like them a lot. Thank you. Yeah. And this girl walked past, and I know her from the estate. She went, you all right, babe? I went, you all right? I'm not joking. She went, here, got you this. Pulled out an envelope. Filthy. Absolutely filthy. I was laughing so much. I thought, how long you had that envelope in there? She went, I've got this for you. I opened it up, and it's a congratulations card, yeah, for my show, which was lovely. In there was such nice writing. And she goes to me, and she gives me the card. Thank you so much, because my daughter watched it. And her daughter's a little black girl as well, which meant more to me, because she's not even from my community or my culture. And she went, thank you so much for doing that, because she keeps saying to me, I'm going to do this when I get off the estate. I'm going to do this. I can do that just for I'm from here. And just hearing that made everything just feel like, oh, that was right. Oh, all right, cool. Because to hear the mum say, thank you, she's got other options now, it's all I ever wanted as a girl. As a girl. As a girl. As a kid. All I ever wanted was other options. And listen, I know travelling women have different options, yeah. They like to say that, I said, that they don't work. Of course they work. My nan worked in the field, yeah, was the, like, you know, picking all the veg and the fruit and that. Yes. And my dad would have to go with her, because obviously she was a single mum. My dad and uncle would go with her. And that's another thing as well. My dad always had it hard. Like, even when he was a little boy, he had a scar. My dad was blind in his eye. Oh, wow, he was? Yeah, but he had a scar like that. And I never understood what the scar was. I wasn't allowed to ask. I asked him as I got older. And he told me that he was working on the field with mum, and he put the knife in the tree. It was all, like, playing, like, on their break, whatever, as little kids. Like, the tree shook or sank, the knife fell, they looked up, he went straight in his eye. So even from a young boy, and he'd never say about it, it weren't a big thing. He was like, get over it, you're blind in your eye, get over it, you've been stabbed in your eye as an eight-year-old child, get over it. So that was my whole life of get over it. Come on, get over it. Even, like, you know, my dad, my mum finds it hard to speak about it and this. Not that she wants us to get over it, but it's like, we've got to be strong. We can't be weak. We've got to be his, you know, his kin, his wife, his children. We've got to be him. When I just, sometimes I want to cry and be me. Yes. Yes. Then was it 20 when, is it Tempting Fortune? I was 22. You were 22. Yeah. All right. So now, would you. Would you say that that was the first big break for you? Yeah. It was a very weird time, I will say that, of my life because I just left the only boy I've been with. I just left him. Oh, wow. Okay. So can we talk about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So then when you are 20 on TikTok, at this point, you're not living at home. Yeah, I am. You are? I am, but I've got a boyfriend, yeah. Like, they see it as I'm married. So they see it. And I think this confuses a lot of people, but in our community, if you give yourself to a man without church, they just see it as marriage. A lot of my cousins, if they come in the room now, they'd go, that's my husband, da-da-da. Some of them aren't married in the church, but I would never be rude and disrespectful to not call them. If your wife come in and out and you said, that's my wife, you're not for a church, that doesn't mean nothing to me. You've gave yourself to her, she's gave herself to you. That's how I see it. Okay, okay. So I was 18, and then I left him when I was 22. Okay. But even that was very hard. Was this someone who your family introduced you to, or. Because up until this point, it seems as if you're not allowed to talk to boys. You're not allowed to. Yeah, and I didn't. I didn't like that. If I did, I'd play football with him. Like, it wasn't on that level of we can speak sexually or emotionally. It wasn't that vibe at all. No, I was about 18, and I just see him, and I asked him what his name was. And that was it. Like. But he kept. At this point, I've never been in a relationship. I've never had a man touch me. I've never been on a date. Very, like, adult, child, but child in the brain, I would say. Yes. And he wasn't this aggressive travelling man. He wasn't this aggressive state kid. I thought, oh, my God. That's what I want. And it went what I wanted. Did your parents approve of him? At first, I feel like some people. You know, it doesn't matter what culture you come from. I think some people perform, but I don't think they perform as their self. I think they perform as an identity that they want to be perceived as. And I think that's what happened. And then I feel like he studied me, studied my loyalty, studied how I think. And that was a very dangerous game for me. Okay. Okay. Did you then move in with him? No, I wasn't allowed. Because I wasn't. I wasn't married for church. Okay, but. And I didn't have a baby. If I had a baby, they'd go, yeah. You go. I didn't have a. I didn't. And I'm the youngest. I won't make doing that. I'm just going to kick our youngest out. Right. Did you consider that to be a healthy relationship? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's all I've seen. Okay. That's all I had done. Why would I think it was different to. Because someone else did it to me. Oh. But you're saying, upon hindsight, it wasn't. What was it? It wasn't your relationship with the. With the boy. What? Was it more. Was it healthy? Oh, no. No, it wasn't healthy. It was not? No. But I didn't know different. I didn't know any different. Okay. And he led me in the sense of, like, think, I've never had sex. I've never. I've never done anything like that. He was the man, entirely. And I just had to. I see it. It was clever. It wasn't in a way of, like, oh, I'm this authoritative man. I think that's what was worse. Like, you know, if my dad said it, I'd expect it, because he's true to who he is. Where, on the outside, this boy's a wimp, and a pussyhole, and then when it's on our own, you're not a wimp or a pussyhole. I'm confused. Okay. All right. I see it. I see it. So then, when you were in that relationship with him, did you think that was it for you? That you'd be in with him forever? Oh, forever. I would never. I wouldn't have gave myself. It took me a year and a half to give myself to him. I would never have gave myself to him. But I can't. I was a young girl. What do you want me to do? Like, I loved him. I was with him for four years. What was I supposed to do? Okay. Listen, I've always been taught how to fight back. I've never been taught how to leave. So how in the world, given how you were raised, were you able to leave that marriage? I felt like I was dying. I felt like I was dying in it, and I felt like I was dying without it. But that part of me died then. That's obviously what that was. When I felt like I was dying, I was grieving something clearly that I was leaving. I had to get out of there. And I'm glad I did, because I never thought I would. Did you talk to anyone about leaving? No. Him? No. This is. And you're in your 20s at this point. Yeah, 22. And still, all of this weight, you carry yourself. You don't talk to anyone about it? I don't really know how. What were you feeling? In that relationship that made you know it was time to leave? Not to sound deep or make things whatever, but just saying it straight. I feel like when you're in something toxic, especially if you're immune to what's going on, and your brain is starting not to feel right, even though this is your normal surrounding, I felt like I was fighting against myself as well. It was really like, I felt like I couldn't accomplish. My mum and dad were married over 40 years. I couldn't even do four. That's what I was thinking. But then I also, now I'm awake, I think, well, he knew that I would stay through anything, so he put me through everything. And that's OK, because it would never happen again. I'm not that girl. So even when you're saying to me, oh, can't you speak on it? I can't, I'm not that woman anymore. And it is hard for me to speak on it, because I feel childlike. And even though, yes, I was a big grown woman, 22-year-old, I didn't have the same experience as 22-year-olds have. 22-year-olds my age, sorry, at that age, I've slept with people, done one-night stands. Not that I want that, but I'm saying they've had so much experience with the outside world, that it's probably a little bit dangerous to mine. But it was easier for them than it would have been for me. Yeah, OK, I see it, I see it. I won't ask any more detail, but I just have to generally understand, is in that relationship, were you in fear? I think when you've been brought up in fear and anger, you don't see it as fear and anger, you see it as home. And to me, I was at home. OK, I see, I see. So it was, I would presume, it was toxic, it was unhealthy, as you mentioned, but it felt normal to you, because that's what you knew outside of it. Well, I feel like if you've been treated a certain way your whole life, when someone comes and says they love you and treats you the same way, why wouldn't he love me? Right. How old were you when you got out of that marriage? Twenty-two. You were twenty-two. So is that right before Tempting Fortune? Oh, Tempting Fortune, I look back now and I think was such a healing thing for me, just because I'd just left him. And then two weeks later, I got a message from Tempting Fortune. They approached me, saying that they want me on the show. Can I ask, though, because I could see that this time, is that you just want to escape. Yeah. You just want to get out. But your dad has just been given, was it six months? Yeah. To live. So you're told your father has six months to live. But then you're offered a show that is going to take you away for a full month, isn't it? No phone. No, nothing. How did you make, how were you able to make that decision? I asked them. I asked them. And this was my, and I completely understand, you know, from someone's outside thinking, like, well, I wouldn't believe my father. And I completely get it. I was at his side for two years. It was the one chance. He's been dying for two years. Okay. It's just now, it's six months. Okay. This is my one opportunity. I've been through things, no adult, no woman, no man should go through in these four years. Repeatedly. And now I'm out. And I'm like, where? Someone grab me. I need saving. That's it. And that's how I felt. I was obviously just very vulnerable. And I asked my dad. And my dad hated all that TikTok shit. Oh, I hated all that. Absolutely hated it. Couldn't want him in one. Giving it, all of that. And then this was the one time to me, I can prove it to my dad what I am. That's how I see it. It wasn't that I was leaving my dad. It was like, dad, I'm proving this. Dad, look, look, I'm, I'm, I'm you. I'm, I'm, I'm doing this. Like, validate me. Love me. Love before you go. Do this before you go. And I remember doing the show and I loved it. I had no phone. I had no worry. Just for that one minute. I weren't a nurse. I weren't getting, I weren't breaking up. I wasn't getting back with someone. I weren't a half gorgeous, a half bad. I was just truly in a jungle show, having fun. That's what I was doing. And then I come back and I run my mum. And I said, after a month of us not speaking, she was crying. And I said, I'm really scared to ring dad. Because I think he's dead. I don't want to ring him. She said, he's alive. He's waiting for you to call him. He's downstairs. And I was really happy. And I rung him. I said, I did it. I won 20 grand. He went. I got my big deal. I take over my other's life. Just shouting, he's dying. He's jumping up in his chair. Like, you know what I'm saying? Fuck, you know. And I was so happy. That was the first time I could prove it. And I proved it. I did it. I've worked all these years doing TikTok videos. Even then I was popping. I had like 300,000K. It still wasn't enough for him. Yeah. I see it. But now I see it. Yeah. I see it. You went out there. To be like, look at me. Look at me. Dad, I'm repping you. I'm out of here. And you won. Yeah. You won the show. You won 20 grand. You tell him, did you feel as if he was proud of you? Yeah, I felt more, well, it's hard, innit, 'cause they hold their pride. Like, obviously, he was like, "Yeah," like, cheering, but when he passed, the day before his funeral, obviously, like I said, he comes from the Gypsy community, a few of his Gypsy friends come round, like, who we'd call our uncles, yeah? That's a respect thing, yeah? My dad's, like, my uncles would come round, whatever, and one of them went, "What one of yous did that show?" It weren't out yet. Ain't been aired yet. He died before it aired. And I didn't get the money yet, either. That's why it was harder, 'cause I had to bury my dad with no money. I didn't have no money, like that, but whatever, and they come in, and he said, "What one of yous did the show?" And I went, "Oh, me." He went, "Oh, he couldn't stop talking about that." He went, "He was so gassed." He went, "He told all of us." And just for that minute, I thought, "You don't even know what you've just done for me. You just gave me that thing of, like, 'Oh, yeah, he loved what you're doing. Keep going,'" before he went. Like, bear in mind, it's like the captain of the ship telling you how to steer a ship this whole time, and you're going, "I can steer, I can steer," and then he's gone just before he's gone. You go, "Oh, she's a perfect captain." That's what it felt like. Wow. Well said. Yeah. That is what I felt. I could feel that. Yeah. I could feel that. Yeah, it was cool. And I can understand how stoic your father was. Did he ever tell you that he loved you? Yeah, but, like, in different ways. Like, like I said, there was a very, he already had certain issues mentally and stuff. So like, even if you hugged him, he'd go, "All right, big girl, ah, tap on your back. All right, big girl. That's enough. Come on now. Oh, get over here, big girl. You know I love you. Go on." It'd be like a, "Oh, I'm a 13-year-old saying I love you to my mom." It was that vibe. But I know he loved us the best he could. Yes. He's lost a child, died in his arms. Looking back, what more could I have expected from what he gave me? What other life? He's been betrayed. He's been heartbroken. That's something you can't turn back from. And I look back because I think I'm so selfish, wanting something from a man he can't give me. But he gave me everything else, and I'm grateful for that. Yeah. And I love him, but I don't want people thinking I might give my dad up if I wouldn't. I love him. No matter what his, like, traits and all, whatever, I love him. And I don't feel like I could. I feel like, being honest, with filming, filming's made me grieve. Filming's amazing. The people, the crew, the production company, amazing, but they were asking me questions I've never been asked. We've been raised like we don't talk about emotions. I don't know how to regulate. That's what makes it harder, as well. I don't know how to communicate. So I had to learn that. So to have a crew come in and be like, "How did you feel when your dad died?" Or, "How did you feel when this happened?" I go, "My whole. It's like a fight or flight. I freeze. I don't know how to. I don't know how to regulate that. I don't know how to speak on that without, like, sound like I'm cussing someone out. Right. You just were filming it last year, right? Yeah. Well, last month, yeah. Or last month. Yeah. So before you even get the show, your father passes. You're probably trying to figure out who you are and what your identity is. Yeah. But from what I understand, too, is, doing the research is, there was also a freeing that happened to you around this time. Yeah. Yeah. And it sounds weird because I miss him every day. I'd love for him to be here, but when you have someone control, like, even what I would eat or what I would do, like, even down to eating would be under his control and to not have that was like. If I want to go get a bag of crisps, I get a bag of crisps. If I want to go. Just something so small. Yes, there was a part of me that was freed. There's also a part of me lost. I don't know what I'm doing. My mom describes it perfectly in the show. She says, "I feel like I'm a bird. I've been in a cage a long time. And someone's open. And someone's opened the cage door. I'm too scared to walk out." I'm curious. What are things that you could do once your father passed that you could not do when he was alive? Not leave the living room when men walk in, not. Even our toilets. We got a boy toilet and a girl toilet. Men aren't allowed upstairs in our house. That's always been a rule. No men upstairs. Whether you want to use the toilet, whether you. Nothing. Even when we'd film up there, I'd have to ask for permission off my mom. And I'd have to tell her what I'm doing in the scene, who's in. Who are the camera crew. Obviously, she knows them. But I'd say, "Yes, the man, Harry, is the camera man today. And Martina is the other woman. She's in there. She's a woman. She's doing it." Okay. Because you remember, my mom. A lot of people have to say, "What'd it be?" My mom's been with my dad 40 years. Obviously, she is going to have the same sort of programming. She met him young. She met him as a child. What do you think's going to happen? Right. Right. So. I see it. I see it. I see it. I see it. I see it. Have you ever noticed how many of your friends are sitting on great business ideas? It's usually nothing to do with thinking their idea isn't good enough, and everything to do with the execution side feeling a bit too technical. But with our show sponsor, Shopify, so much of the technical side is taken care of for you. It enables you to set up your own online store without a developer. You just pick a store template, customize it to your own branding, upload some product photos, set your prices. And you're live. Shopify looks after your payments, inventory, orders, returns, and even helps with your with calculating shipping rates. And if you also want help selling your products, Shopify's built-in tools write product descriptions, create email campaigns, and schedule social posts for you too. It makes the technical part of running a business so much easier. So give it a try yourself and sign up for your one pound per month trial and start selling today at shopify.co.uk/needtotalk. Endless summer escapes start here. Beat the heat. - Tammy regularly hauls stuff to her kids at college. That's why she shops at BJ's Wholesale Club, saving up to 25% off grocery store prices. Beef jerky, microwave meals, laundry pods, even they can't screw up. - Have you met my kids? - And with BJ's gas, she gets there for less. - They call me the road warrior. - This is your home, road warrior mom. Home of the save. Open soon. - How does this show come about, right? Because- - I can't wait for you. - From a career standpoint, you are, you've just won a Channel 4 show, "Tempting 4K." - Blah, blah, blah, blah. - Tell them, Paul. - I mean, this is good. - You know. - You won, your TikTok is, how big are you on TikTok at this point? - What, at what point, sorry? - Before you get the show. - Oh, before the show? - Yes. - Like 900,000? - Yeah, like- - It's all right. - Yeah, you got it. - It's all right. - Just a few people, just a few people. - I got a bit of a community behind me. - Yeah, a little community going. - And that's what I love about it even more, Paul, just to clear everything up. So many people online have been going, "Oh my God, Secret Liza, Gypsy Wives, "why didn't they use full-breaded gypsies? "Why didn't they use this?" I'll tell you why they didn't, 'cause it weren't their idea, it was mine. All right, Paul? - Okay. - All right, that's why. So there's a lot of girls doing videos that are like, "I got picked for the show, I turned it down." Well, you didn't get picked for the show, darling, 'cause I pitched it and I picked me and my sisters. It was about me being from a poor council estate, my dad is a gypsy, my mum is a gorger, I live life on social media, my family have different mixtures of traditions from both cultures, and it's a clash. Let's record it, you're gonna love it. And they did, they did. So there was no other gypsies involved. I didn't name the title that. Channel Four changed the name. I don't know why I have to state it, 'cause these senders people that I work on there don't have to say that they didn't name me senders. - Right. - Right, so I don't know why I have to state I didn't do that, but I didn't. - But this is brilliant though, you pitched the show. - I pitched it myself. - So let's talk about some of the impact that the show has made. - Yes, three million. - Three million people have what? What is it? - Watched it. - Watched it, okay. - But the second episode's out tonight. - All right, so just so far, right, three million, right? It's doing quite well on Channel Four. - I'm not counting, but. - Yeah, but of course, of course, you have to count. You have to count. Numbers are important, so you have to count. So what to you has been the biggest surprise on the Upside with regard to the show? - How much love I have got from people that are half, 'cause I know that it's really, I know that some people are ashamed or feel like they can't be both. You're only in this one box, and that's it that you've been put into. And that's what I love. I love that they've come out and they're like, "I've been ashamed about it my whole life, "but I ain't gotta be ashamed." They're saying it, so I'm like, "I'm off, there you go. "I'm gypsy from me mum's side, now what?" And I think, yeah, that is what you should be saying, what? You are that. You're all of them things. I ain't just gotta be one thing in a box. I'm this, I'm that. I'm not an onion. There's so many layers. There's too many layers to me. - Okay. - Do you know what I mean? - So you feel like-- - I don't smell that one though. - No, no, no, you don't. No, you smell great. - Thank you. - So you feel like you're inspiring a whole group of people who see, they see you in them. Or I'm sorry, they see themselves in you. - Yeah, yeah. - They see themselves in you. - Yeah, and I want that. Like when a kid, from like little things we spoke about, do you think I ever looked on the telly and I saw a woman that looked like me? Or do you think I looked on the telly and saw like someone that's from a deprived area that ain't getting taken the piss out of? Or no, I didn't have that. I didn't have none of that. And that's what I thought. There's probably a lot of girls like that. Like even like yourself, you're from a different culture. There's probably people you know that probably wouldn't accept people that are mixed. They probably wouldn't. I think that comes with any culture, like in general. - Yes. - But you were probably very inspirational for people from the black community who come from the projects, who come from that and think they're not going to be psyched. You represent that. And that's what I want to represent. I want to represent them girls that didn't have a choice. I want to represent them girls that had been in survival their whole life, that they think this is it. And it's not, it's okay. And it's all right that you still got them survival instincts. It's all right, you're learning. - Yes. - It's okay, you ain't got to be horrible to yourself. That's what I have to say to myself. You're in your twenties, stop being horrible to yourself. You're a young girl figuring life out about her dad. You're figuring it out. Be nice. And that's what I want for them. Just, it's all right. Even if you ain't got it figured out, there's girls in their thirties that ain't got it figured out. We're winging it, it's life. No one has got a rule book for this. - No. - Like I didn't know there was a life rule book or a gypsy rule book. If you've got one, send me the book, Paul. - Yes, yes, yes. No, I love this. I love this. So now on the show, there are many, I don't want to say characters because they're real life, but they're characters. - Characters. - I said it, wouldn't I? - Because it, I mean, some of them. So you have yourself and it's really centered around you. - Is it? - I'm sure you had no idea that it's centered around you. - Cut the cameras, cut it. - And then you have your family. - Yeah. - Right, clearly. - Yeah. - And then you have a best friend. - James. - James. - Yeah. - All right, so when did you connect with James? - When I was 20. - Okay. - I was 20, I was doing like, I was trying to do TV work, but I was a little extra and sank, but that was a big deal for me. 'Cause obviously, even when I'm out of state, you're not an extra. You could never see yourself on screen, let alone being an extra. So I was there and this boy come over to me. I was in a relationship at the time and he come over and he was like, he was getting pictures with everyone. It weren't a deep thing. He was just showing that he's an extra too. We got a picture. Me with my banter, I joked and was like, don't tell everyone I'm your girlfriend. I've got one, like, you know what I mean? I played, yeah? And James went, I'd never even spoke to James. He come out of nowhere and he went, in it, he wishes that you were his girlfriend. I went, in it. We've been friends ever since. - Just like that. - Like that. It was like he was horrible and I loved it. I was like, in it. - And so you, so he must be super proud that you're doing this show. - Yeah, because you see when me and James met, like I said, we were extras and we made a pact to each other. Whoever makes it first, the other one comes with. We made that. - Really? - And he says it to me every day. He goes, thank you, I love you and all this stuff. But that's my lawyer, that's who I am. If you're with me at the bottom, why would you not be with me at the top? - Yes, yes, I can see it. Loyal is definitely a value, or loyalty, should I say, is a value of yours. - That's the only thing I've got about me. I ain't got money. I ain't got this, I ain't got that. I've got loyalty. - I have a surprise for you. You ready for this? - No, don't, 'cause I love surprises. I love stuff and things. - No, this, I think you will love. - Okay. - This is really good, all right. - Okay, should I close my eyes? Should I make it intense? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, ready? All right, close your eyes. Hold out your hand. All right, yeah, I like that. Okay, ready? I want you to. That's a surprise. What do you think that is? - It's an envelope, innit? - Yes, yes. - Has it got cams in it? It ain't thick enough, I think. - All right, so open your eyes. - Okay, thank you. - And I would love for you to read that. - Read it out loud? - Yes. - To my best friend, soulmate, and forever person, truly precious, I want you to know how incredible I think you are from the moment I met you. I met you six years ago. I knew by instant connection we could be soulmates. Your courage to stand for what you believe, your boldness and bravery in life is something that I think is so admirable. Seeing a version of you that only family gets to see is breathtaking, but besides your work, your followers, and your social, is a girl who's fighting hard and proving, sorry, and showing up to provide for all of her loved ones, making moves and setting the tone TP style. Your loyalty to your family is something that I honestly think is extraordinary. You wake up every morning, no matter what the world throws at you, you make sure you're always loyal to your own. You're the woman who holds the glue for all of us. You're loyal, loving, brave, and most importantly, Miss TP, brackets, iconic. Sorry, I can hear him saying it. Sorry, that's why it's funny. From meeting you to becoming best friends to watching you on this journey has been the most breathtaking, magical thing I've ever experienced. This is something that isn't luck or is the universe, this is you. You've changed the lives of so many people by simply being your unapologetic self. You've worked so, fucking hell, he's wrote a lot, I'm dyslexic as fuck, this is so much, right? You've worked so hard to get where you are and I hope you are just as proud of yourself as we are. You really are something truly precious. I wanted to take a moment to mention your daddy. He would be proud and is proud of the woman you have become. You have supported his home and his family. I know he thanks you every day for looking after his wife and his kids, and his grandkids. You may have broken some traditions to get to this point in your life. - What's going on? - Sorry. no problem um um sorry i can't see um looking after his wife and his grandkids you may have been you may have broken some traditions to get to this point in your life but i know he's up there telling everyone how amazing his miracle is he's thanking you every day for taking on the responsibilities when it's never been expected or asked of you i'm honestly so excited to see what you bring next for truly precious this is your journey your story it's only the only the beginning whatever happens next in your life and career i'll always be by your side holding your hand and hyping you up every step of the way i'm never letting you forget how proud we are you really do look up to your name truly precious i love you so much my darling i can't express how proud i am of you six years ago yesterday today and forever to go you've earned milestone you've hit and it's going up from here all my love james wow now that paul was a surprise wow what a lovely message can i keep this please yeah absolutely hold on to it and then i'll give it to you thank you at the end i thought that was beautiful that was very lovely yeah how dare you make this podcast about him are you joking cut it i tell you we can really make it about him because that is that's that's you and james yes i love him he's great he's amazing when i met him when i was younger yes we had that instant connection but james he wouldn't mind me saying this he says it on the show james don't have a family like that so when i met james i guess we were both kind of lost i was in a relationship that i couldn't scream out that i want to get out um i was still under my mom and dad's rules and james was just this boy that was like young you know naive no family starting essex he didn't know what gypsies were which is quite funny he does now i'll tell you now he does yes yes but like he he's been amazing and like i love what i love about james you know that in life you know you meet people and you can go someone oh i don't like that like you might have to teach them a certain thing or a boundary i we are so close if he run me and said oh yeah don't say that you could be i'll go oh sorry like it's just so there's just so much love there that anything if he's to take negative all that love would override it it would never be intentional true best friend thank you very much so this is your best friend yeah yeah james is amazing yeah he's great i can see it i can see it so now james is on the show with you yes you have uh your your family right can you walk us through some of the behind the scenes because so many people would love to know what happens behind the scenes what what do you think people would be most surprised about to know just about the filming of a tv show well i think people are surprised that ours is real that i've seen a lot of comments it's like oh some of this is staged some of this is this i think oh my god my show must be popping like for you to think i'm staging saying wouldn't i have something more staged like baby more can be done like i'm not gonna be able to do that i'm not gonna be able to barefoot with no bro onto the shop wouldn't something else be happening right you know what i mean right like but i i love that i love that i love the crew they were so lovely so nice and you know i had to not like warn them but i'd say listen there is a culture clash in here there's certain things you can say certain things you can't you know just take it with a pinch of a pinch of salt they were so just understanding like everyone saying it was said that was ignorant what you think no no no and they're like it's all right like it's okay we you've told us we know you know like that understanding without having to overly explain my whole life and defend myself again yes i didn't have that yes and i loved it i could just work with them and they knew who we were they knew what we are they loved us they're our friends like i've bought one of my producers is pregnant i've got a baby stuff like they've bought me handbags for doing the show like they genuinely love me and i love them they're so kind i've never been around gypsies like mainly are with themselves they don't have like i don't know if you know that but like where there's obviously so many of yous many just get raised together so i was very lucky to have my sisters and my brothers as my best mates but to come out of anything of that was a bit foreign to me even having james james is the only james and robin the only friends that we're all friends with and we're all friends with them they're family friend they're not just my friend do you know what i mean yes and to have that with the crew was so nice they're so lovely like genuinely and like you've been in this industry how hard is it to like you say your vision and you've got to trust them with what they're saying because they could manipulate this they could change this whole thing for me and i've just signed up to something that they're not actually agreeing with with me and they didn't they portrayed it even better they made us look good really if everyone thinks we were shit jesus we see what we actually look like so this right here is what i think people most often say when they're on a tv show is that the end result is not what they felt was happening in real time oh no this was exactly that but for you you're like no this is exactly what was happening that's great i think they've made us look better than what we were like we've argued obviously listen the crew with us with us for almost a year like we filmed a pilot last march so on and off i've been doing this for about a year and a half but actually like consistently it was from september last year so for about 10 months straight they're at our house wow what could we fake you're there 10 days sorry 10 months straight what could we there's only so much i could put a persona on sure you're with me 24 7 like from when i wake up to when i'm going to bed like i need to go like i mean that's heavy 10 plus months um how did your sisters and and your and and your brother it's one brother right i actually have three brothers three brothers but one wanted to be in the being they're quite they're quite um private traveling men like gypsy men all right so this is exactly where i was going is that how did they feel about the filming the show and having to you know allow cameras into their home i'm not gonna lie paul we're friends so i'm gonna be honest with you they didn't have a fucking clue until i said listen i'm filming saying i just need you to be in the back because listen if i said to him we've got a tv show and we're doing this they're gonna freak out right this ain't their world yeah they're gonna freak out like animals where if i sit and go i'm filming saying yous are just there they'll go oh and then they'll just talk shit and they naturally will talk to me naturally it's natural we're natural we're naturally mental so it just might as well film it so you set them up you set your family up yeah that makes sense yeah yeah that's that's what you do to family you set them up yeah in a good way paul don't look like i set him up to get jumped right no no i got him a career poll i mean they all have i mean i i would think that are they they must be proud yeah but like it's hard for them as well because they've got the same upbringing as me so when they're seeing people giving it they think lovely let's get into this you know what i mean yes whereas like girls no we are getting a new life now we don't need to do this we don't need this we've got better things coming i see it as we're getting tested by the universe like we really deserve these things which we do so i need to be mute i need to keep it cute being mute it's hard though it's hard it's hard can i ask you is what about the the estate because you know you're filming on the estate yeah right how did the community feel about you filming they were fine because i think because they know how much i big them up on tiktok and how much i actually love them like that isn't a facade if there's a camera there or not if i make if i sorry if i dinner made and there's leftovers of course i'm looking on my if they want to cry they ain't eating do you want something to eat like my my neighbor debbie she makes cheesecakes for us randomly when she bakes that ain't fake right we're a community if one of us is eating we're eating if one of us do you know what i mean that's why when i got paid when i got paid for the brand deal that's when i on the second episode i give out i feed all the estate kids on halloween i did it on halloween because i've been the state kid myself on halloween i know what happens on halloween you probably know what happens on halloween and i thought i need people to be safe i need them to be okay i need them not to feel pressured if they've got to go and do something on halloween with other groups of kids right and i gave them a safe place i did a tiktok i didn't put my dress out it's literally for my state people who know where i live i said i've got 200 hot dogs i've got marshmallows and i've got hot chocolate if you need somewhere to go or you're hungry or you don't want to be on your own whatever the situation is come to the garden paul there was over 200 hot dogs i give up see that's how you do it and that's how you do it you know what's so wild is i didn't even realize there was that connection from the states to the uk on halloween so tell me because i'll i'll be honest with what happened so i remember halloween what halloween used to be was people in my neighborhood would go steal candy from other people they would stick people up during halloween and bring it back is that what or no it's different again breaking toilet paper in the houses maybe plotting on a house like scaring people right or like touring bank or whatever just the state style like you know or they'll be out on them bikes rallied up scaring you or setting the fireworks off on a bike right but to me that's nostalgic i know that's really stupid but that was my childhood but i also had to think as an adult so that's also as hard because there's two parts of me like i said my blueprint is like that's so fun i want to go to my bike and set fireworks off that's jokes but then there's an adult part of me that's like what happens if someone gets hurt and then what happens if someone gets nicked then what happens if this turns into world war three and now they're petrol running each other's houses then what can we talk about your siblings just for a second yeah right because they are more than a supporting cast like they are major players they're literally the show yeah yeah so if you were to give me a sentence about each sibling what would that sentence be okay um what is in describing him yeah from your perspective who are they so jamie john's my older brother yes he's like the golden boy could do anything wrong i love him by the way yeah he's great yeah no And he is actually a really good brother. And that's another thing that I found really sweet. Sorry, to change it but my brothers have always been these strict gypsy men that I couldn't really like be not like feminine but I couldn't in that way around them like if I was sad they'd be like what are you crying for you pansy stop crying you sort of get like snapped out of it like a boy we were emotionally we were treated like boys I think but when my dad passed I guess there wasn't this high standard of like matching my dad like matching the alpha okay so we like calmed down a bit I don't know how to describe it but it was so nice like it's just so nice to you know if I cried he'd hug me now if I you know if I said something like oh big girl don't worry about that he'd be in touch with my emotion instead of rejecting it yeah it's beautiful yeah and it's so nice to have I love that about him very good father very very good at working very humble man lovely Ruby would sell anything for some magic beans she ain't got a clue what day it is lover she don't know what day it is no she's a very good sister she's very like a second mum but who's lost with magic beans okay that's her Pearlie is like the stuck up funny mum I guess bitch tells how you really feel yeah no and then Honey is Honey's like funny in a dry way like they're very do you know what it's really hard just to give them all sentences because they're we're all very similar but we're all so different they're so funny they're so dry they're we've all got different paths two of my two of my sisters like on the cast yeah not the other ones that aren't two of the sisters on the show are married with children and me and my sister Ruby are nine and she's the oldest one and I'm the youngest so that's really like yeah but Ruby was also two months early oh wow which is so weird that's interesting yeah that we we're both prom yeah that is interesting yeah alright so now you live in a is it a pink chalet oh I've got a chalet yeah chalet but it's a bit different my chalet I will say that because my chalet normal chalets just so that you know Paul are like little houses right and inside them you have a bedroom a little kitchen and a little living room like all in one but my dad was so strict that when he got this built and now looking back I'm not stupid it was obviously because he knew he was going to die and my mum would be on her own in the house yeah he said I don't want you having a living room or toilets or kitchen because it means you won't come into the house wow so you will you'll have a shape of one you'll have your bedroom in there but you will be using this house this is your home so even that was a controlled environment that is interesting that is interesting so it forces you to have to go into the house yeah to interact yes but we do that anyway it was a bit thingy but now I look back it was obviously because he weren't going to be there that's what I think anyway okay but I think maybe he thought no you will be in this house you won't go I can give you a little bit of freedom but not as much as you want you ain't moving out right you're in your garden you ain't going nowhere but it also could be that he wanted to see you but he saw us I lived there you know but he wanted to make sure that you oh you mean when he passed yeah came back you have talked about building an empire yes right you have this show that is incredibly successful thank you that I'm sure is going to create more shows and more projects put it to the universe Paul oh no it will it will I think I will say this is and I'm not saying this to gas you up but I'm going to tell you go on gas me don't be shy let me gas you up is that you are exceptional talent thank you so much that means a lot you're the type of person that just comes around once every few years you know what I mean wow that means so much in the industry thank you and so there's no doubt what the future holds for you right thank you but here's a question that I have and I was thinking about this coming in I was like wow she still lives in the estate still lives in the chalet yeah still how does your identity change once you move away well I feel like if you move away it's very easy to forget where you come from and I don't want to because even though I come from you know hardness and survival and struggle that's who I am that is what I am I ain't no like posh girl that's had it really really good so I'm not going to pretend I have been like you moving from the projects even though that must have been amazing for you in your career I completely understand it on a survival level you probably love the projects though yeah I mean yes and no no you probably want your kids there I get that and I get that but you for you you love it because it made half of you it made part of you yeah alright you might have been beat up you might have won some fights you might have been robbed you might have been how many lessons did you learn that you didn't learn in school yes true facts yes and that's why I'm grateful for that alright I might not be so academically clever which I wish I was I'm very street smart I can definitely read a room I can definitely read a tone of someone's voice changing I can read the tone of the footsteps going up the stairs so alright I can't read that way I can read other things that you couldn't which is another skill yes yes so now will you I mean will you move or will you not move I don't have that thing of moving like you don't so really you don't see that leaving I mean to be honest I feel like I'd travel and I'd explore I feel like I'd always come back to my safety net even if I went travelling for like three weeks Thailand or here I'm like oh I can't wait to get home that is my that chalet now as an adult is my safe spot if I want to cry in there I can I've got no adult telling me not to be a pansy I've got no one telling me to get over it if I want to go in there and sing I'll go in there and sing if I want to go in whatever it's just my room it's my room my space nothing else I'm safe here wow okay okay so then when you think about empire and building an empire because I've heard you mention this a few times yeah what is an empire to you? building on the foundations I already have okay so adding to what I have I feel like some people neglect what they've got and then try and chase a different thing over here where I want that with me and that I don't want to like if it was my way I'd buy the whole estate I'd buy all the estate I'd do cheap rent for everyone for all the mothers that are on benefits and struggling like it's to benefit people it wouldn't be to be like I'm in power I'm in no no no it's more of like I'm here to help you and I can instead of a power trip thing I don't have that weird power thing yes it's more of like how can I guide you how can I what can I give you to make you feel better that's just how I that's what how I've been programmed okay okay all right I'm with you on this what about you and dating what about it I know this is this is it's interesting for some people everyone loves when I talk about dating but to certain guests but you could be maybe the only guest that's like I don't want to talk about this I'm so scared I'm scared but I mean but you did date on your show I mean it was some speed dating I might as well look for this Paul you ain't getting me like that man nah we're supposed to be friends here Paul I I see every time it's a tough topic you go to your lip gloss only time Paul only time some people they go to their vape you go to your lip gloss yeah I'm like hold on and you have no more lip gloss in there no oh there's a little bit yeah I'm getting out there's a little bit look at you trying to promo my lip gloss that's for you Paul I'm sending some to your wife anyway Paul come on send some send some but so sorry I'm here and as detailed or as loose as you want but I'm just curious about you and and if you see any importance of having a partner because many people today say you know what this is no longer important to me but I see that it is a part of that blueprint that you talk about that you grew up under is having a partner so how will you or how do you view partnership now it's really hard for me to answer because I feel like my unfortunately my concept of love for my first relationship is fucked I don't feel like love to me isn't safe unfortunately which is weird because I've got so much love to give and I love loving people but to actually like the idea of bleeding in front of a shark again just doesn't appeal to me but I do understand the strength of having a man around I think a man should be around I think a lot of people glorify of being like a single mum and this and that when it's actually really hard like I'm not a single mum but I'm around single mums I've been an auntie that's had to pick slack up do you know what I mean I've had to be an auntie to friends' babies when they're it's very important the presence of a man the leadership the control the empathy of a man and I am aware of that but I also feel like you need to have control of you first before you allow a man to do that I couldn't allow a man in like I said and bleed in front of him when I'm trying to heal myself I couldn't expect him to heal me when I've got so many wounds I haven't addressed yet that's fair alright I hear you I hear you I will say that just keep in mind not all of us are sharks yeah some of us are goldfish yeah well you know what some of us are whales right so there's a whole variety but I respect what you've had to deal with what you've had to survive and I understand to understand your positioning. - Yeah, there's also like when you've only swam sharks why would i want to swim with a goldfish i don't know how to great point but great point that is something i'm trying to learn i'm trying to learn i'm trying to unprogram my programming it's hard especially when you're young like like you said i feel like people only do that really in their 30s and 40s yeah i had to really snap like 22 i had to be like what is my what's going on like now but thank you for giving the option to if i want to explore that i can thank you yeah absolutely absolutely i feel as if you have a more clear or perhaps more than at any point in your life you have a crystal clear view of who you are yeah what you stand for what your boundaries are yeah what your identity is you know i have a lot of conversations around identity here which i didn't think i would but i do i like that and i always say that identity is the story that we tell about ourselves that we believe yeah so what do you think is the story that we tell about ourselves that we believe yeah so what do you think is the story that we tell about ourselves that we believe yeah so what do you think is you believe your identity is today i think i am a lovely woman who is from a gypsy background also a gorgeous background into that household and i live poorly on an estate i'm a kind woman i've got a good heart and my morals are impeccable people might you know people can say what they want you'd never hear me not saying please and thank you you'd never not hear me offering you what i've got i would never be online slagging a girl down i would never i wouldn't do that um you know so there's a lot of things that i think people would say i'm not but there's a lot of things i definitely am all right all right i'm with it uh i have only two more things however yeah is there anything we have not yet talked about that you want to make sure that we have a part of this conversation i just want to make it clear of what the intention of the show is let's do it do you want me to say or do you want me to say i'm not sure i'm not sure you lead it off oh no you lead it off thank you you lead it off thank you there you go um i just want everyone to know that this show isn't about all gypsies i don't know why people are so confused by that it's about my life my upbringing the thing is about the show when i was making it i specifically said i didn't want certain stereotypes but i feel like if you look at big fat gypsy weddings yes all right you know i feel like that did cause a little bit of harm to our community so i didn't want it stereotyped i didn't want to show them my sister cleaning the trailer my sisters have trailers my sister ruby and pearl lived in the trailer for 10 years yeah so there's there's loads of things i could show you i didn't want it stereotyped like i didn't want it where we're sitting there making a bacon pudding we're making a stew like yes i feel like you saw that i didn't want to stereotype it from big fat gypsy weddings i wanted to like flip it and be like listen i come from more ways of life than that and because i haven't done that i feel like i'm getting a lot of heat for not stereotyping it like for not showing us all cleaning for us not getting a trailer for like you know what i mean i feel like i've been stereotyped for trying to break us out of a stereotype yes and with uh big fat gypsy wedding what i remember about that was it won a bafta or nominated for a bafta i think right um eight million people watched it right so it was one of those where it created a lot of noise or i shouldn't say noise it created a lot of attention around the gypsy community yeah and people argued for and against the attention that it got so your thought going back to the gypsy community going into your show and this was your show this was your idea was that you distinctly did not want to showcase any stereotypes no i thought it would benefit us i i all right i'm going to plead ignorance on this go ahead do your thing is do you know it was not until i came to the uk now about eight years ago that i fully began to understand the level of prejudice or or should i say actually so it wasn't until i got here eight years ago that i saw the extreme discrimination towards the gypsy community yeah i i didn't get it until i came here and what i have seen what what i what i find fascinating is how that level of discrimination appears to sustain itself like it's still hot yeah it's stuck it's stuck like it's not doesn't feel like it's going anywhere that is what's so sad because i feel like in the show i explained that like my whole life of being that culture clash and i want to be that safe space and i feel like i've made it rough and it's coming from my own community which is so sad like it's so sad and then when you react like when i've reacted out of anger they'll play victim and then i'm wrong again and it's like oh and i'm and that's my old blueprint arguing why am i arguing what am i doing truly you are a businesswoman calm down not the whole world like you said you went not all of us are sharks i've all i've been around the sharks it's hard to take things but i feel like i'm getting bit from everywhere like it's hard for me just to hold it go oh go on you bite my arm off you want oh go on you bite this off without me saying sank and then i react and i look bad and that's what's hard because i have to channel the i have to regulate and that's what's hard because all i want to do is defend what which i've always had to do yes yes i can see it i can see it i have so enjoyed talking to you same i there's a lot of people out there that have been there's one final image that i want to show you yeah but what i want you to do is i want you to look at this from truly precious temple a million followers like i want like you know top television show like i want you to look at it from an outsider's view from from from no from your oh this is this is your view right and i want you to give advice to the person in this image okay okay all right you ready no i know you you're not ready but i think this is important close my eyes absolutely you can oh sorry it's every time i see my dad just saying who's who's in that photo it's me my daddy and my sister's honey ruby and pearly the girls on the show and i think we're somewhere from looks like i think we're in australia i think we're traveling here oh wow yeah um i remember some of this i remember being on his shoulders at one point and he told me to get off because i was too heavy um i'll just tell her this is your unit this is your team right now this is your team you might feel like because you're young and they're coming for you because you're the baby that they might be attacking you as well but they are your safe space they mean well and it will be you first you and them versus the world always that's what i take to them hold your head high you know what you're doing don't worry about everyone others don't worry about everyone else's visions don't be trying to get business advice of people that ain't got business advice don't be trying to be trying to get um you know life advice of people that like the same life 40 years know you you know what you want go and get it and bring them to the top that's what i'd say and hit a million i uh there's always something from a guest that i will always take with me i'm gonna i love that this is your team i'm gonna tell that to my boys yeah i think that is so profound it's like you see everyone this is your team and your boys you got two boys yes you make sure they know because you're the man of the family yeah you're the head god forbid anything happens they will have to look after their mom and each other of what they've got so yeah it will be and i'm not talking on that existent i take that from the universe i don't wish anything like that on your family ever i'm just saying things in life happen whether it's later in life or quicker in life i'm just saying things in life happen whether it's later in life or quicker in life even watching die but what i was prepared is that we were drowning but together and that's what matters i'm definitely going to tell them good that's my promise to you yeah i'm definitely gonna matter of fact you know i'm gonna do is i'm just gonna clip this and show it to you yes good yeah and i love i love do you know what i love about you speaking to you i love how and when i say feminine i don't mean like you're a feminine man you're so in touch with yourself and emotions and you're so in touch with yourself and emotions and you're so in touch with yourself and that must be so lovely to have especially you having two sons like i can only imagine their future wives being like oh what men what men they are like your wife must love do like if she's only now crying you could speak to her oh you could calm her you could be her peace not a chaos not her what's she doing and that's so lovely to see and have in a man so you should be really proud that's such a lovely thing to have yeah i i appreciate that you know i really do i i i think i have um i've learned and i think a lot of or not a lot some men have a hard time understanding that you can have uh that and you do have parts of you that are masculine you have masculinity show up in parts of you and then there's feminine there's femininity in parts of you which is beautiful beautiful thing which is what makes us human and what was hard for me over my life is to to understand that and then embrace it of course of course you know but but but I've reached a point. To balance the two is so hard. Yes. That's what I said about my brother. I felt like he was so heightened here and that person could be even, like, on a level. Yes. Like, if my brother needs to go mad and be masculine, all right, cool. I think any man can really do that. That's part of their programming. Right. But for you to challenge a part of you that isn't your programming is to understand what someone's saying, even if you don't, or to listen without judgment is such a good trait to have. You will have very strong, loving boys. I'm so gassed for you, even as my friend. I'm, like, I'm so happy. Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate that. And thank you so much for having me. I had a good time. Sorry for the trauma dump, Paul. Oh, no, no, no. Can I have that photo? I'm going to give you all these photos, but I have to give you the last question. Oh, yeah. Because everyone gets this question. And this is my favorite. So, truly, you have had some incredible conversations throughout your life. Which one stands out to you as the most memorable? Who was it with? And what did you learn? I don't know how to. I keep saying I don't know how to answer it. How can I say a different sentence? Sorry, what's a better sentence? Oh, that's a good. That one works for me. All right, all right. I need your mic. Sorry, just put your mic there. Yeah, do you know what? It's hard because I feel like I've had so many good conversations from so many different people that have taught me in different ways. Like, I've got people in the estate that have taught me something when I was younger, streetwise. I got. So, Keir, from you, even talking to you, it was so nice to speak to you. Even just how you don't. Like, you asked me a question earlier. I can't remember what it was, but I've never been asked that. And then I thought, oh, I've never asked that to myself. So, I think every day speaking to people, I've been very modicoddled. So, every day, me speaking to people is a new element of me that I'm unraveling. And I like that. It's scary, but I do like that. I do like learning and I do like being open to what I can change and what I can do. So, everything to me is a bonus. When it comes to speaking to people, to be honest. See, I've asked that too. We've had, what, a hundred guests. No one has ever given that answer. I'm sorry, I'm the favourite one. Did you report that? Me too. Oh, my gosh. You're going to get me into trouble. You are definitely going to stand as one of my most memorable guests. Thank you so much. And I'll tell you the characteristic that I most adore about you that I didn't realise was. truly you. And that is your transparency. I love that you are open about your challenges. You're open about your grief. But you're also open about your passion. You're also open about, you know, you loving on you. Thank you. You know? And what I find to be so hard with television talent and talent today is that is the performance. Oh, yeah. Now, to a certain degree, do we all have to perform? Yes. Ooh, like if you're having a bad day, you can't show that or something. Yeah, cool. Yeah, yeah. But you don't pretend who you are. No. It's like, this is who I am. And it's so interesting to me that we are having this conversation because I had a conversation recently in this room, but it was off camera. Oh, wow. Okay. And it was about how it's interesting to me about how certain guests will sit down and I feel as if there's a turn on for the camera. Yeah. Whereas others will come in the door a certain way, but then sit down, be that same way and leave that same way. And in my mind, I say that consistency to me is what success is. Right. That's success. That's successful. Being able to show up as you, fully you. Thank you. And what I love about you so much is that you have had this tussle with who you are throughout your life, but you reached a point where you showed the world who you are and the world embraced you. And so my ask for you going forward is to continue to do that. No matter how much adversity, no matter how much criticism is, is always show up fully as you because that is success. Amen. Amen. I agree. And I can't, and I love that even you saying that, even you being like, show up as you because it just resonates. That's all I've ever had to do. Show up and show up and show up. And now it's at a point where I've got higher successful people being like, oh, you showed up. Well done. I'm like, thank you, Paul. Yes, I did. I've been showing up for years. Thank you, Paul. Jesus. Take your time getting me on here. It's all right. We're all friends. I'm sorry we didn't get you on earlier. It's all right. I'll forgive you, Paul. I know you're from the projects. I'll forgive you. There you go. There you go. There you go. Thank you. Thank you so much. God bless. Truly precious temple. What I felt in this conversation more than any is how heavily discriminated the gypsy community is to this day. It's one thing to read statistics but it's another to talk to someone who's actively living through the discrimination and that's that's that's that's the top item that I walk away with. I mean, how many of us don't have a complicated relationship with our dads? You know, this is the more and more that I sit across from phenomenal people, the more and more you see how complicated our lives actually are. And how you can have multiple emotions occupy a single space. You can be upset with someone and love and have joy at the same time, love them at the same time. And so truly in her transparency outlined I think just how human she is by talking about the complications with her father. You know, there's the show The X Factor. And it does stem from the theory of there is an X Factor, something that you just can't compute about someone that makes them exceptional. Truly has the X Factor. I was like, you know what? I need to one-up these gays. I'm just going to sprinkle a little bit of like, oh, I kissed a guy at the end. What could that mean? But I did not think that this was going to officially be my coming out video. I had internalized homophobia, but I wanted to be seen. And that's when I started my YouTube training. I just remember taking am I gay quizzes. Really? Well, first of all, if you're taking that quiz, you're gay. I started to realize that things with my mom were changing. So there was the strong independent woman who was so caring and nurturing. And then there was this very depressed and emotionally abusive version. Darkness definitely took over at 19 when I got the opportunity to move to L.A. and I was like, "Oh my God." There was like no hesitation. My mom was out visiting me. She was basically saying her goodbyes to me. She said, "I just took a bunch of pills and alcohol." And she was overdosing. I remember just looking at her taken out on a stretcher and I said, "Wow." My boyfriend at the time, Daniel, was traveling and I was by myself again. I didn't know what to do. Do you believe that you will find love again? Neither of us have been in a relationship since. That could potentially change everything. ♪ Endless summer escapes start here. Beat the heat. Tammy regularly hauls stuff to her kids at college. Beef jerky, microwave meals, laundry pods even. They can't screw up. Have you met my kids? And with BJ's gas, she gets there for less. They call me the road warrior. This is your home, road warrior mom. Home of the save. Join for just $20 at BJs.com/Mosquite and save 10 cents per gallon for six months. Open soon. Limited time offer. New members only. BJ's. Home of the save. This episode is brought to you by TXU Energy. For the first time ever, Texans have an energy plan that combines free nights all year with daytime summer savings. It's called Free Nights and Cool Summer. You get free nights every night, all year long, plus a 25% bonus toward your daytime use all summer. It's a first of its kind plan, created for how Texans actually use energy. Discover how much more you could save with Free Nights and Cool Summer. TXU Energy, the home of the save. TXU Energy, TXU Energy, energy for everything. Visit TXU.com for more information, rep number 10004. This episode is brought to you by Dee Dee's Discounts. Back to school season is officially here and Dee Dee's has everything on your list. I'm talking bold styles, cool kicks, backpacks, and even dorm room essentials. All the prices that won't hurt your wallet. So don't sleep on Dee Dee's. Whether you've got a second grader or a sophomore, Dee Dee's has your whole family covered. Find a Dee Dee's Discount store near you and go check it out today.