Trevor Roberts

Hey what's up guys welcome back to No Gatekeeper this is Jordan I'm here with Trevor Roberts who is just back off tour with Turnstile. For those of you that don't know you know Turnstile probably one of the most spoken about bands of the last two three four years now you creatively, sonically whatever and Trevor's kind of along the way so thanks so much for coming on dead. Thanks for having me this is my first podcast my first interview ever so I'm honored. Wow you're first interview ever. I think so. I mean definitely like you know audio recording you know being being perceived by people but I've always had how does that make you feel I know there's a I feel like there's there are two camps maybe three camps when it comes to photographers and there's there's the quiet type you know that the ones that kind of uh slink into rooms and we're in the shadows or you have the the personality higher you know that the big personality um and you know and both come with strength and weaknesses so I think from that you I use finally slinking out the shadows. Yeah for sure um I feel like um I'm pretty I'm a pretty social person like I you know get along and chat pretty well but um in my head there's like a million people that are gonna listen to this when in reality it's probably like me you and like my my dad and like a couple other people that will be in the community with me but in my head this is like going on like CNN or something but hey bro I I hope the podcast does as well as that and it'll be broadcast or million people but I can promise you it won't be. It's great up yeah we can only hope so yeah thank you for having me bro appreciate it. Of course dude so you just literally a couple days ago just got back from from a tour um hat has kind of bedding back in. It's been good honestly uh yeah we were in South America for a couple weeks like 18 days um six shows so it was actually spread out pretty well um we only had like you know we had some off days in between like most of these shows where we got to actually chill so it wasn't too taxing on like you know the normal hustle and bustle of like a European tour or like a full U.S. tour we have a show like every other day. So but the shows were insane man I mean South America was unbelievable they just love music down there dude they love rock music specifically so the crowds were just insane and we were all pretty fueled by that and so um yeah I'm on the whiplash side of it now where you go home and it's quiet so um it's been good though just getting back into routine and hitting the gym and watching baseball baseball season started uh I know you're tuned in as well. Oh yeah so yeah I'm watching baseball and just kicking it it's been great. So there's actually this is a real side note that I've never really spoken about anybody with before um but there's I was intrigued to see what your kind of routine is with this because you're you know if anybody knows you you are you know you look after yourself you know you're you know you're in the gym you stay fit you do you play baseball maybe I grew up playing baseball yeah okay so like when you're on these like runs when you're in South America when you're in Europe and you're in U.S. like does maintaining that kind of fitness reddish and then like is that like a really important thing for you or do you feel do you kind of like become a little bit kind of laxatives of cool with it and it kind of slips by or is it something you're kind of very kind of straight ton? Yeah I think it's something that is so ingrained in my daily life like even back home and I mean ever since I was in high school really like I played sports my whole life and then started working out pretty regularly like into college and everything and still still do and so I feel it when I'm not you know hitting the gym at least one day a week I could kind of first of all I see it in the mirror right every day I'm like oh man I'm I'm getting smaller but uh also just like it's so like I said just ingrained in my routine that it's really like a escape for me as well mentally and kind of just a detachment completely from anything creative it gets my you know my heart racing and gets my blood pumping and uh I can kind of just listen to music or listen to nothing and fully you know just focus on my body and be one with my body and uh yeah also just like picking stuff up and and putting it down and um yeah yeah because I have on the road on the sorry to finish your question though just on the road it's uh it's pretty easy to like stand behind Dan the drummer and just see his back muscles and be like holy crap I gotta go to the gym tomorrow like most ripped guy in the world um so that keeps me accountable as well because as I you know continue to interview people like but everybody seemingly has their own little getaway you know like um Beth for example like we'll love to go to spars with not spars like like sauna like kind of sauna uh things um my thing is like you know loving to go and find other best vegans but in town and like doing it by myself and kind of like having that out of myself and kind of you know no you know it's not against anybody else it's just kind of keeping your your mind kind of relaxed and kind of uh having a bit of you time so so the the gym has has really kind of come your thing onto it do you do it with the other the rest of the team as well or is it kind of just like a solo mission yeah they're a luckily like extremely active band so it's pretty easy to find at least one of the band members it wants to go hit a lift or uh you know go to a sauna and cold plunge or something do something they're like wellness for the body and um but yeah specifically Dan that's like my workout partner it's always like yo would you go check out the hotel gym like how's it look in do we need to go get a pass somewhere should we hit a climbing gym like um but I'll always run into at least one other member in there so yeah that's what that's what keeps it pretty easy everyone's reactive and and and dance back muscles are just keeping me keep it you're in line I mean they couldn't be more of motivation I just would I would literally do anything to have his back so I'm crying I mean for anybody that doesn't know Trevor you are built like kind of GI Joe you know I would give maybe five six figures if if somebody would be like you could have Trevor's body tomorrow without having to do anything I'd be like yeah his his ten thousand dollars that's great I'm extremely flattered I really I'm trying to know I you know I don't mean to flirt with you it's just uh you know it's appreciation because I didn't have that upbringing at all and I you know as I said my kind of get away and talk is it is food so I have you know I've gone through fluctuations on toy you know like I remember on the two-year tour that I did like the first year I put on like four fourteen pounds maybe and I was like oh my god wow and then like the second half I like lost fourteen and I was like all right well I'm back right right right I feel like when I got like my first my first exposure to like a proper writer that just has like just snacks and food and just beer and like things like that I just for free I was like oh yeah it's right there like why not you know yeah first ever did it had like a proper writer I I ended up drinking a lot of beer and I was like wow I feel terrible but yeah listen learn now I'm on the wellness side of it so yeah yeah so so to kind of get off fitness um you know I'm now known as kind of time styles photographer and in video too um but there was a lot kind of long journey up until that point if I'm correct totally yeah so you grew up just outside of Atlanta I did yeah I was born in a town called Nunean it's like forty five minutes southwest of Atlanta grew up there my whole life um family is still there and didn't really have too much of a like creative side I was tapping into in in school or anything I was really just like focused on sports and like I was really heavily involved in church so I was like going to church every Wednesday and I go on every Sunday like kind of that was all my time was consumed by and then I went to college in Oklahoma and um just started meeting some really creative people and started showing me music that I hadn't been exposed to and like movies and I was like holy crap like I have not consumed any media that is worth listening or watching. And so that kind of opened my brain into just the interest of wanting to create. And so the first medium that I tried was photography. And so started shooting just like my friends and shooting weddings and whatever I was like offer, like whatever opportunity came my way. I was like, yeah, I'll shoot it. I want to try it all and kind of figure out what I like. And then it wasn't until I started like sneaking my camera into some concerts where everything kind of like clicked for me. And I was like, oh man, I want to work in music. Like I really want to tour. Who wants to take me on tour? So you come quite light to it really then. So because what did you go to college for? Study communication. I got my degree. It's literally sitting under my bed right next to me right now. Wow. And it was only when you arrived, I think you were kind of exposed to this. I presume from what you're saying is subculture, like hardcore music and whatever. That's such a-- because so many people that I talked to kind of arrive at photography or filmmaking or whatever, quite very early, you know? All the stories of being given their dad's video camera when they're 10 years old or whatever. And I come to it quite early too. I was going to so many gigs or shows when I was a kid, when I was 11, 12. From that point, I knew that was all I wanted to do. So how old have you been? Like 18, 19. Yeah, like 18. I just want to really kind of picked up a camera. I still feel behind. I'm like, damn, if I would have got a camera, I was like seven. I wonder what would happen. But I also just think it was all in perfect timing and I'm glad I picked it up then. For sure. It's interesting, isn't it? Because I remember when I was 22, 23, and I was starting to have, I guess, like, break through success. You know, I was like two years full time as a photographer by the time I was 23, and I was shooting, like, you know, relatively big things. And it felt great. And people were like, wow, you're so young to be achieving so much. And I was kind of felt like I understood that. But I had also been shooting for like 10 years at that point. Right. You know, obviously not to a particularly high level for many of those years. But you know, physically having a camera in your hand and being at a show and being on the barrier and sending up via my space and stuff was all that kind of learning, a learning curve. So it's so interesting that you come to it kind of-- It was so late. I'm not saying 18, 19 is a crazy kind of time to start something. But you've come so far in it. So because how old are you now? 27. You're 27. OK. So you're like eight years in. And so what did that look like then? So you're kind of-- you're in Oklahoma, you're shooting bits and bars. Like, is there a certain scene that you get into? Or is it just like are you just trying to shoot anything? Like, are you cold, emailing people? What's the most about? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it only took one show for me to just get super hungry. I shot this show for this band called Coin. They're like an alternative pop band. They're not making music anymore. But I was a huge fan of them. But they're like indie pop, like alternative pop scene was like something that I hadn't listened to before. I went to college and bands like The Neighborhood and The Night of 75. And bands like that were kind of like the genre I wanted to work in because it was the music I was listening to. So I was fully like deeming these smaller indie artists. Like in Tulsa, I would go shoot an opener for a show like for free, four hours away in Dallas or Kansas City and make it back in time for my finals and everything. I just wanted to shoot. I just wanted to build my portfolio and keep shooting. And I was also like, damn, I get to go to the concert for free as a sick. So yeah, I was just really hungry. And finally there was a band after I'd graduated already. I graduated a year early actually. I like fast-tracked college and took some extra credits. Each semester took some summer classes just so I could finish school and get on the road. Like that was my goal was to start touring. So I finished school and moved back to Georgia because it didn't quite know where I wanted to go yet. And this band Joan, who I was a really, really big fan of and become friends with, they're still making music. They're like a smaller indie pop artist. They set up Arkansas and they're really, really incredible. And they decided to just take a chance on me. And I was like, I will literally like pay you guys and I'll sleep on the floor of the van. Just like, please, please take me with you. And they're like, we will throw you some money and you can come with us for like 10 shows. And I was like, OK, cool. And that was my first real exposure. It was like the proper van tour all over the northeast side of the US. It was like eight or nine shows. And then COVID happened. So I was like, damn, I finally got a taste of this and wanted to kind of build on my experience. I actually think I did one other tour right before COVID. It was like a Julian Michaels tour. And I was shooting for her opener, this guy, Reese Lewis. And but yeah, then COVID happened. Just shut touring down completely. And from there, I was like, OK, well, I don't want to stay in Georgia. If anything, I want to keep working in music. So I'm going to move to Nashville. And pack my bags during COVID and moved up to Nashville, moved in with-- do you know Tyler Cropane? He's a photographer as well in the scene. I don't think I do actually. Now, he shot for Noah Conn for a while. He shoots with Bristol, Maroney, and like a handful of other artists. He's an incredible photographer. But we moved in together with one other roommate. And I just kept trying to grind on the photo grind while juggling a job at like a juice bar and working at the YMCA for a little bit. But was continuing to do a photo because I wanted to keep working in music. And I wanted to really make it happen whenever touring opened up again. Yeah, and then that eventually led me to an opportunity to work with the Span Laney, who are a pop band based out of LA. They're still touring and doing very well. But I had become really good friends with the lead singer. And he decided to take a chance on me and gave me a call. And I was like, hey, man, we're working on a record in LA. And we need someone to shoot in the studio with us. Would you be down to fly to LA for like a week and just see what we get? And that-- at the time was the biggest opportunity I've ever been given. So I was like, OK, let me call my boss at YMCA and just tell her, I got to pop in the LA real quick. And that trip changed my life. That's where everything started for me. And the opportunities really started to come from. So there's a couple of things I want to pick up on here. And for first one being something I haven't necessarily spoken about at length really. And I'd like to, because I've had friends reach out recently who are touring for the first time or are doing a big tour for the first time. And they are like a little bit lost in terms of knowing what to expect, the kind of standards on a tour. Should I know where-- what a van I'm going to be in, should I know what hotel I'm going to be sleeping, should I know what time I need to be at the venue, et cetera, et cetera. Because I guess if you've never been shown those things, you truly don't know what to expect when you're walking to your first tour. So when you're joining that first tour, you're in the van. And it's a little bit different because vantors are different. I did a handful of vantors before I did any proper-- not proper touring, sorry, but big touring with buses and stuff. Did you just go into it naively hopeful and you were just vibing with it? Or did you try and do some research before to know what to expect as a photographer on tour? Or how did you navigate that? I definitely went in so blind. like I was very basically like, okay, I've shot so many shows now. I'm just gonna try to rinse and repeat what I've done in the past. I had no idea, like the actual structure of touring, I had no idea about like travel days, hotels, like I knew nothing. And I feel like that was kind of an advantage because I tried not to like box in what the experience was supposed to be or set an expectation on anything and tried to like let go of any anxieties going into it. And that honestly gave me just more freedom and more space to create. And yeah, I think you don't have to know the intricacies of what a tour is to expect unless there's like literal deliverables and everything. But like, yeah, I went in blind and kind of learned from the van tour. And I feel like the van tours are something that everyone should go through. Like if you want to be on these big headline tours at playing arenas and you get a bus in a tour manager and all these things that kind of take care of you, you learn so much from sitting in a van for 13 hours. Driving yourself through Kansas and like playing these small shows and loading yourself into the venue and loading out and you're running merch and you're also staying up to three of them and editing all your photos from the night before. Like I grew so much from those smaller tours and I think I'd recommend that for everybody. - Yeah, totally. I think there's so much to learn from like you said or all those things and you know, sleeping on like a fan's floor. - Yeah. - Oh yeah. - Somewhere in the middle of nowhere and you are literally on the floor and it kind of, I'll never forget when I first got on a tour bus and I had a bunk. I was with a bunk called Entish Ikari and I got on the bus and I was like, I've made it. - Yeah, 100%. - I was just like, I can't believe I can live vertically traveling to my next place. - Like what do you mean I'm gonna fall asleep and pour in a wake up in Seattle? - Yeah. - You know what I mean? It's like, oh good. - And I get sent a kind of day sheet in the morning and I kind of know exactly where I need to be and you know, I don't really have to use my brain all that much. - Yeah, really. - I just kind of have to do me. And the second thing I kind of wanted to pick up on was you mentioned about kind of working side jobs. Alongside doing photography and I also have experience of that and there are seemingly quite pivotal moments within those jobs where you have to make a decision for yourself, right? You know, you can't continue to do the side hustle and do photography because at some point, the photography makes you enough money and you're busy enough that you kind of have to let the security of the side job kind of go away. Did that YMCA boss kind of allow you to go to LA? Like very easily, was there any pushback? And how did you kind of, at what point did you arrive at when you were like, right, I can cut ties with like working, quote unquote, normal job and I can be a photographer? - Yeah, dude, honestly, biggest, biggest shout out to the downtown Nashville live, C-A-A. They were nothing but supportive. Like, I think that was a, I got very lucky because Nashville is so music forward and so supportive of just the entire industry and music industry. And so what I explained to them like, hey, I don't know how to like paint this picture of like who Laney is and why this job is important for me but I'm getting this opportunity to go to Los Angeles and actually make money on the thing that I'm pursuing for a career and this means a lot to me and I really need to go and like, if that means my job's gone and like, I appreciate y'all, this was a really good first week but they were like, dude, go do your thing, hit us up when you're back, we'll throw you back in the schedule or whatever. Which was amazing because like, in those gaps in between where I was back in Nashville, I still got to get a little bit of income. But I had to step away from the YMCA which was my last job that I had like on a salary when Laney asked me to go on a tour with them in 2021, the fall tour and that was my first big tour. I got to be on a bus and everything and it was just like a significant amount of time away. It was like a eight week tour or something like that. And so I just kind of told my boss, like, you guys were amazing and so gracious. I'm probably moving to Los Angeles after this tour and they were like, well, dude, we wish you the best and thank you for everything you did here. And like, there were like, there were actual like gym members who were, you know, asking me about the tour and like, asking me about the opportunities I was getting and like when I was moving to LA and it was amazing. It was the best job and it was so rare that you get, you know, that kind of support from like a job that's not creative at all. But yeah, so I stepped away in 2021, did that first tour with Laney and then moved to LA in December of 2021. - Wow, so you went from Georgia to it's a national, and you seemingly weren't in Nashville for very long, maybe a year? - Yeah, a year and a half. - Yeah, you're in a half? - Okay, so you, you know, it was almost like a separate stepping stone from there to LA. Did that, was the move to LA like I did it just feel like something you had to do because at the time, Laney was your biggest client and that's kind of where, you know, I'm just gonna make up numbers here, but you know, 70% of your income at that moment times through Laney, did you feel like you personally had to make that move to kind of grow as a person or was it kind of like, you know, you weren't necessarily excited to move to LA, but it was like a means to an end. - Yeah, I think it just, it made sense for me kind of like, you said, as a pretty accurate percentage of just like, my work was starting to come out of LA and I was meeting more people in LA every time I'd visit and they were like, yo, I wanna, I wanna dish you jobs, you're just, you know, in Nashville. I can't fly you out here, but I promise I can dis you some things if you are out here. So I kind of went on, you know, gut instinct and just like, you know what, if this doesn't work, I'll just come back to Nashville like Nashville is sick. I'll work at the YMCA again. (laughing) But I, yeah, I just felt like it was the right move and I felt like it was something that I knew I was going to do, but it right out of college, it just felt pretty intimidating. So Nashville felt like a great stepping stone to one live on my own and like, you know, just grow as an adult, but also it was just less scary than moving all the way to LA. But I felt ready after that first four hours, okay. This feels good. I feel like I've got enough, you know, friends and support out there that I'm not just going in blind and I have work in the future. So let's just do it. And so, yeah, I pulled the trigger and I've been here since. It's been great. - And did you go with like the blessings of your family? Like did they kind of understand this journey that you were on or was it more of a conversation where you had to be like, just bear with me. I promise this is gonna work out or were they like from day one just like, go, go, go get it. - Yeah, I have very supportive parents. I feel like I got to really contextualize what I was doing when I got to bring them to a show for the first time. Like get them backstage to get through like, oh wait, this is like a real thing. Like you're making money and like, I feel like there was always underlying support, but it felt good for me to be able to be like, yo, this is actually what I'm doing and I'm making enough money to where I can support myself and move to LA and I think things are only gonna get better. And yeah, that's how it's been since. But you know, like my dad's a pediatrician and like my mom was a teacher for a really long time. So they don't exactly come from like a media side of things or like understand that this is like a profitable job. Like, you know, it's not the norm. But they've been, you know, nothing was supportive and like the more I've done this and the longer I've done this, like the more excited they are about like the possibilities in the future for me. So yeah, it's so nice. I'm in the same boat, you know, my family were very just like, you know, me to you, you know, if everything goes wrong, there's always a, there's always a bedroom in our house that you can retreat to. Thankfully, it never really comes to that. But yeah, it's nice to have like, you know, a safety net essentially. I do feel for people who, You know, truly don't have that kind of family safety net in regards to that, you know, because I was, and seemingly you were allowed to kind of go and do your thing without any hesitation because, you know, if it went truly really badly, you could move back to Georgia and you could move back to, you know, Birmingham and the UK, it's like, it's not, you know, it's not that big of a deal, you just got to give it a go and see what sticks. Totally. Yeah. So, so you move to, you move to LA, you do the, you do the eight week tour with, with Laney. You seemingly, presumably, not, sorry, not seemingly, presumably get a lot more eyes on your work. Do you kind of, do you see your kind of work offers kind of go kind of through the roof after that point or do they slot to steadily come in and kind of, can you type me to the point where you kind of eventually arrive at Turnstalk, kind of, kind of where you want to know? Totally. Yeah. So I ended up being, I ended up working with Laney for like two and a half years out here in LA. They were kind of like the main thing for me. Obviously, there's gaps in tours and gaps when, you know, an artist is making an album or something. And so I was able to fill my schedule with working with other artists and building my portfolio outside of Laney and like, trickling into other things into directing and video started taking over my life and started shooting and directing and editing things and that consumed my time for a while. But after about two and a half years with Laney, I was like, okay, this has been really awesome. I grew so much and feel like I kind of found a creative voice through this playground at these shows that Laney had for me and gave me so much freedom. But touring is exhausting and I've lived in LA for two and a half years and I feel like I haven't lived here. So 2023, fall of 2023, stepped away and was like, okay, I'm just going to stay in LA, no touring. I'll shoot shows here if people want me here. But for the most part, I'm just going to focus on work outside of, you know, live music. And in that time, I met one of my really, really great friends, Alex, Alex Henry. And he has been with Turner Style, you know, since day one. He's been friends with the guys very early on. He's in his own band called Basement and another band called Fiddlehead and was doing all of the photo and video and media for Turner Style during the glow on era, which was their previous album. And really the album that, you know, like, put them in front of a lot of people. And he did such an amazing job documenting those shows and telling the story of what a Turner Style show is and created a style that many, many people try to emulate. And yeah, it just became a very, very good friend of mine. We connected over just kind of doing the same things through the photo and video world. He lives out here, kind of bonded over like growing up in the church world. And yeah, I just love that guy a lot. He's still a very good friend of mine. But last year, or the year prior, I should say, he basically was at a point where it was like, hey, dude, my band is coming out with an album or we're working on an album. And my other band is touring a ton. I truly just don't have the capacity to continue to document Turner Style. Would you be interested in, you know, me kind of grandfathering this to you. And I was at a point where I was like, I only really want to get back on the road. If it's someone I'm super stoked about. And I believe in the project. And I see the opportunities to create something new and something fun is something I believe in. I didn't want to make like, you know, TikToks or reels or like contenties type of stuff. I just want to document. I just want to document what's going on. And this felt like it came to me on a silver platter. And it was something I couldn't say no to. So I was like, yeah, obviously, if the band is willing to have me around, I'm super down. Yeah. And then a couple months passed. And early last year, he gave me, he gave me a call and was like, yeah, so like jobs years, if you want it. Like man, the manager is going to call you in like an hour. And you know, that's it. You're not in the running with anybody. We're not like pitching this job to a bunch of people. It's just like, he believed in me a ton. And I'd met the band prior and we were, you know, we bonded pretty well. And that was basically it. It was just like, if you want it, it's yours. And it's been the greatest blessing I've ever been given. I'd truly, I feel so lucky to be with them in this point of their career. It's been awesome. So because this is something that I, I'm not battle with, but it's just something that I experience and it's something that I've come, I've learned how to navigate and I'm much better at doing now now that I've done it for a little bit longer. But kind of similar to you, you know, that I started working with the 1975 when I was 24. And, you know, I'm 32 now. So it's, you know, with in a small amount of time, it's been nearly 10 years. And I built such a kind of closeness with those guys that when there is that time off from, from runs, you are presented with a situation, an opportunity, a problem, you know, no matter how you see it, where your biggest client is inactive, right? Yeah. And for you, that was initially lazy. Like, were you, were you like going on like small little like week-long tours, were you just doing L.A. stuff? Was it, was it scary to, because this is something that I kind of feel quite a lot is that touring for me now is like a stable income that I could, that I can almost rely on that I could find a client that it would work out for the year. But ideally, I would love to be in New York, I would love to be in L.A. And I would love to be like working on creative projects with people. On a kind of long-term basis, but stationary, right? Did you, did you find that transition out of kind of touring so much with L.A. like into like just being in L.A. Like, I find actually scary and difficult thing, or was it something that kind of just naturally happened and that all kind of just kind of flow flowed from there? Yeah, I was so scared, because I was like, yeah, it was the first real stable income I'd had as a creative, right? Like, it was, we toured a lot, like we toured a ton, and I never worried about money in between because it was always, you know, I have something to look, I have another tour to look to, you know, coming up. So that even just leaving L.A. in general was like a identity thing for me too. I was just like, okay, do people only want to hire me because I worked with L.A. or worked with L.A. or like, is my work even good outside of L.A. Yeah, there was, there was a lot of fears leaving the job and financially it was definitely one of them. I was just like, okay, hopefully someone wants to hire me from the crap that's on my Instagram. Like, it definitely took, you know, a couple months of just kind of reminding people, like, yo, I'm off the road now, I'm in L.A. I'm working here. I'm available. I don't just shoot live. I'm down to shoot video. I'm down to do this and that and it did take a couple months of just like, let me just lean on the savings a little bit and the job, the jobs will come in and supplement the pay and all eventually, you know, get back in the green. But no, it was a, it was a scary decision, but a unnecessary decision and yeah, it was all just a stepping stone for the next thing. How did you, how did you kind of make people the way that you were in L.A.? What was it like, Instagram story thing? It's been like, yo, I'm here. What was it like? I put it like literally, I'd be like, yo, I'm home. Like, let me, let me throw the location on my IG story and remind people I'm here. Or I, you know, there's no shame in just completely being like, hey, I'm here. I'm available for work. Like, I was, I used to care a lot about what people thought about me and like my How I presented myself online or whatever which is so funny, but it was just like a early 20s thing I'm just like really caring about What people think about you, but I Yeah, I would flat out just be like yeah, I got nothing the next two months of someone someone need or literally anything I'm here. Yeah, and then one thing another, you know every job leaves to another That that thing is so difficult because I I have friends and we all sit Different sides of it and on different sides of the extremers or you know some people are so far that you know they would never post I'm available, you know because it kept you know Potentially or whatever kind of gives this impression that you're quiet. Yeah, yeah, yeah or you know I have friends who you know and we're all as accessible as each other You know I have friends who are totally opposite and the the moment they have two days off. They're like I'm in New York I'm free. I can be anywhere. I you know like I can shoot like get ready with me I can shoot alive, you know whatever yeah And there's there's no real kind of right or wrong way to go about it, right? You know, it's kind of just each their own, but it's it's definitely an interesting conversation. I've had more recently and more It's coming up more a lot more with my friends where it's just like like like do you like do you post when you quiet like what you know like what what do you do and it's it's a funny thing about like Yes, it could be a psychological thing like you said you know about saving face and And all of the above like do you feel like like even now like you know for example You've just got home from from a really long-term style tour like what will you be posting Los Feliz Location on your Instagram saying that you're free Yeah, the maru Loicie Like Loicie list just being like what's up? I mean I Dude honestly, I'm you know, I'm lucky to say I've been busy enough to where I haven't felt like I needed to not that I wouldn't you know, I think close mouth doesn't get fed and so if I ever felt like I needed to Open my mouth I would yeah, but yeah, for now. I'm kind of just bouncing off a few things that I already had I had planned but yeah I I say no shame and asking for it if you need it and But yeah, I haven't had to ask in a while, which is a crazy blessing. So yeah, it's cool. Yeah, hell yeah, so So yeah, so we get to turn style and so so you get kind of It's quite unusual really if I'm being totally honest, you know in terms of being grandfathered into a role like I've never really I've never really heard that story before for for anybody else You know people will just get lucky in terms of being right place right time in terms of Other photographers being fired or you know, they're not having a photographer and they need a new one or whatever It's very rare that At least in my experience and you know my My experience of talking to my friends who work in this field that Someone Essentially is like you're the guy for the job. I want you to take my job here. You go like That's such a fascinating way Of kind of coming into turn style world and especially Especially at the time you did. I mean, I remember when we hung out in New York and I said this to you at the time But I'll say it for a while now. It's listening like to To join a band between Those records is crazy Yeah, you know, it's like you know, I it's you know similar for me, you know like I started working with um The 75 on the on the run up to their third record after their second record and um The only kind of went bigger and better and more influential from that point onwards and I was really um I was taking a I guess I was taking a back how big the whole thing was and how influential the whole thing was and I'd never really been exposed to that level of fandom before and um You know, you see your Instagram follower count go up quite quickly Yeah, you know, you have people DMing you for tickets and you don't know who they are and you know whatever whatever um How's that experience been man? I know that's like a really broad kind of question, but Yeah, yeah, you get brought in your your friend you know leaves camp and goes on to other great things um and now you're like kick you know like Tell style are obviously a very creative band regardless. So you're not coming in dry and it's like You know having to draw blood from a stone, but you know, there's there's an expectation on your shoulders could to continue a visual you know Painting that that has already been put before you like did did you feel like a big pressure to maintain those kind of brush strokes or was it Did you feel confident in in you know all of your experience up until that point to really um To really take it on and and like was it uh was it a collaborative thing from the star or is it It'd been like a very much like you do you and um will will like it regardless Right. Yeah, it was uh, I was extremely intimidated um Because I did feel the weight of the importance of what I was documenting like I I didn't know how big never enough was gonna be. I didn't I mean obviously like I saw the success of glow on in the tour and how much buzz was around the previous album cycle, but I I had no idea. I was about to like get on a rocket ship um That is you know never enough and uh my first show with them was a free show that they did in Baltimore uh At the Wyman Park del and we literally I mean they literally just built a stage in the middle of this park and it was a free show and You know open donations for the homeless and It was like a huge benefit concert and like like 10,000 people showed up and and I was just like went in the world am I getting myself into and I was just like Literally like looking in the mirror like you you are here for a reason like you You were the pointed to this job like Alex brought you into this job for a reason and like You would not be here if you weren't supposed to and Truly, that's how I felt. I was just like this is this is really really big and um And Alex did such an incredible job in just building this identity for turnstile and like interviewing the fans and making it this huge organism That you feel at the shows where it's like It's not banned And fans watching the band. It's like the whole thing is one ecosystem. It's like one big organism and it feeds itself and like How in the world do I document this um And thankfully they just like Are so patient and have so much grace and are so encouraging like brinden and and uh pat and fron and dan and mag or like Dude you're like we we want you here and we trust what you're gonna make and thankfully with like the guidance of uh Brinden who's pretty like hands on with everything that goes you know up on the instagram and kind of the creative identity of turnstile like Always kind of steering me and like yeah, we we want you to do your thing here some things like you know Alex did but we want you to do you um like We have so much freedom and and letting you do what you want to do but um These are some of the things that we'd love to see like in may you know shoot 70% fans 30% us like we want we want to showcase the fans We want to showcase the experience. I could care less if there's a photo of me in front of you know 20,000 people which was so opposite to what I wanted to capture you know I wanted to like Be like look how amazing this band is and I I had to learn how to Shoot like you know look how amazing these fans are look how diverse you know the people that are that are showing up to Um these shows and like how do I tell their stories and so I had to really like relearn how to shoot um Shows for turnstile like I had to learn a whole new recipe um and you know that comes with like a mixed bag of Gear as well like I'm shooting digital also shooting So much film uh shout out Steve Carter from Sinistil Every day every every day We are like Shout out Steve Carter every single that he listens to this podcast and I love him to bits and um Wow big up my mom Yeah, yeah and like a ton of VHS and I'm even starting to shoot like on a cinema camera like my red and Yeah, just like I don't think there's a exact formula on shooting the shows just like What's the best way for me to tell a story of what's happening tonight and um That's been my experience with with shooting turnstile You'll We'll see you that came up with the idea to Affirm the the light buds bright down behind the drama Uh, yeah It's like I remember sitting and watching that over and over and over again and just like sitting back side I choose with like other bands away. I've just been like you seen this shit That was uh that was in Paris at Music festival that was my first Proper tour with turn style like outside of the little one-offs we did like in preparation of the album release like We did a European festival run shortly after and that was my first tour with them and Up until then everything video wise Documented for turn style. There was at least on socials and YouTube and everything was on high-8 or VHS like low-fi And that was kind of part of the aesthetic. It's still a part of like the DNA But I like really pushed and I was like Brand-in I'm just gonna bring my camera and I want to try some more high-depth stuff and just see if you like it like let's just try it and You know I kind of just started getting little bits and bobs each night And then that night I was like okay I'm gonna set this behind Dan because you can see like the whole crowd and there's like pyro like in the very back And you can just see everybody up this hill and I feel like this would be a great shot and then yeah I ended up being like just an insane show and we got that clip and I was like originally I think Brendan like put it on like the Instagram story and He was like no less hardpost it I screw it and Yeah, just threw it up and kind of went platinum Now and now I get to shoot more high-depth stuff, which is cool because I like shooting some cinematic things at these shows But yeah, just get into the the logistics of doing something like that like did you did you have to approach Stage manager to manager band to be like I need to rig because what what camera were you rigging? It was a red Commodo 6K Just I brought up I flew out of parostics with me. I just I carried it with me the whole tour Dreamly annoying for all the flights we had to take so annoying, but I'm glad I did it But yeah, I brought it and just put the sticks all the way up and Yeah, just kind of told like the drum tech like you know This is gonna this is gonna live here for the show in the stage manager and everything Okay, you can tape it off and Kind of just went went forward after that now now. I've got the full trust. So it's just like kind of What I say goes now Yeah, I mean, but yeah, I mean you laugh, but it's right man like I think there is The process of those things is sometimes like maybe a non awkward conversation But a difficult conversation with us with a stage manager where you're like I want to rig this camera and they're like What the fuck are you talking about? Right, right and then you know as you said, you know if they see a video it goes quote unquote platinum and Everyone's like oh, okay, it's it's the kind of Showing what you can do and then you kind of give them free reign to kind of do whatever you want kind of after that point Yeah, I mean you have kind of you maintain that identity with tons of so well and and kind of leveled it up Really, you know that the film stuff that you're shooting especially of the fans. It is so great You know, I was speaking to Harriet on a previous episode that she did oasis And and and a lot of her job not predominantly, but a lot of it was Was fan stuff, you know that the story telling around that oasis reunion was The fans as opposed to the band really um And I think it's becoming more and more important, you know, I think is as um People become less I don't know uh in it As they become more singular, you know, I think those moments when you are at a show Whether if that's like you and your dad at oasis show if it's you and a stranger that you me and become best friends at a turnstile show Um, I think documenting those moments are Are really important and like you said more important and Getting like a sick jump shot of the guitarist for like the the 20th time. You know those those crowd interactions are I actually yeah, they're just priceless, right? I mean, I mean again to to go about Harriet She was saying that she was booked by Fred again to shoot the show that one of his shows in Glasgow Just to shoot fans to get artwork for a single That's so awesome. It's it's incredible like I like If that's so mad to me like to be booked to do something so hyperspecific but so important Um a show is fascinating um So see you've just finished the tour um you kind of back home is is is turnstile world kind of I don't know what your touring looks like now Like is there a lot going on um, but what does your next kind of couple of months look like? Yeah, we It's kind of spread out throughout the year just pretty nice um, I feel like last year We were on the rocket ship and it was like I'm really bad with numbers, but maybe like 70 to 80 shows and like eight Month wow and this year is like 45 shows over the whole year, right? So just way more manageable And yeah, so next for us is Coachella literally next weekend. Okay Next two weekends, I guess I should say, but it's yeah, which is just gonna be crazy Um, they played it in 2022 They also played it in 2019, I want to say and The the crowd just gotten bigger and bigger and more and more involved and Really curious to see how Uh the LA and just Coachella crowd will respond to this show as well Um, but yeah Coachella next and then Uh kill be block party and like Bonnaroo and Lala Paloza and just all these kind of like one off festivals for the next couple months and then Uh a proper um Europe another like European festival tour in August Um, and then I'll kind of see from there, but Yeah, I'm along I'm along the ride this this one's not really rocket ship. This one's more like uh Just like a standard coach like Jet and just Kind of cruising. Yeah. Oh, yeah um It's just one the couple of things I just kind of kind of round out with um you You mentioned kind of very early on in this composition and you mentioned it again Um, you were talking about your friend Alex um is the is the church the big part of your life I'm in a really interesting relationship with Church in religion as a whole to be honest. Yeah. Oh, yeah, you've caught me at a funny time. Oh It was like It was everything to me for so so long um truly like I'm not kidding when I say I was like Every Wednesday night youth group every Sunday, you know church. Yeah All the way through college and even Nashville and then even out here in LA um Going to church every Sunday But Yeah, I'm in a very interesting part of my life right now where um honestly touring changed my life in the fact that like I'm kind of embarrassed and and like a shame to say that back in the day There's just people that I would never have given a chance simply because of like The people I was surrounding myself with are because I was in church. I was like oh, I can't be around Minnesse atheists. I can't be around Yeah, someone who smokes weed like What in the world I would never and then like I go on one tour and meet them the sweetest and most You know down to earth and loving person I've ever met my life and I'm like oh my gosh. Surely this guy is like You know Going to church or whatever and I oh no. I've literally been an atheist my entire life I'm like wait why like but you can't be you're you're too sweet You're too much like Jesus to be like an atheist And that that kind of shattered shattered the glass for me and I really like it took me some time to repair the way I approached relationships and gave people a chance and I've so many incredible people in my life now and I feel like a very well-rounded Friend group of all different, you know races, genders, sexualities Experiences and that I just I just would have never given a chance if I stayed the way I was for a really long time so Yeah, I'm in a funny funny spot It's funny the Easter is the sunday. I'm like am I going? Yeah, because yeah, I built so many incredible Relationships in the church as well, but I just I have a hard time with it now and um just a different relationship with faith now. Yeah, so kind of TBD, I guess, is my answer. But I mean, because what does that look like in terms of, you know, when you were, not necessarily now, but when you were really in deep with it and you were touring, you know, what did you do? Like if you had a show on a Sunday, you know, like, did, were you going to different churches like on the road, were you like, were you open about your faith, like with the people that you're working with? Was it, did it feel like something that you had to address, or was it just something that, you know, was part of you and you were just like, you know, this is me and this is the vibe kind of thing? Yeah, yeah, I felt like I, I wore my heart on my sleeve and my faith on my sleeve, like pretty early on and I wasn't like going to church, like different churches, but I was, I wasn't ashamed to like say that like, yeah, I'm like, I'm a member of this church or like, yeah, I met this friend, you know, through church or whatever. And yeah, it was, it's always something that I wasn't in. I wasn't like necessarily ashamed to talk about. And, yeah. Yeah, it's just, it's just a conversation that I've never really come across before with the Tobot Fist. And it's like, you know, there's lots of conversations around joining tours where, you know, there's just like different cultures going on, you know, I even found it with, you know, touring with a 75% long, you know, it's a bunch of breeds. And we all kind of share the same humour and we all grew up watching football and we all have the same reference points. And then, you know, I remember I first started touring with bleachers and it's like a very New York New Jersey American vibe to the tour. And it like, I was like, oh, what the fuck? Like, yeah, I don't have these like cultural touch points that these people do. You know what I mean? Like, I, you know, until two years ago, two and a half years ago, I didn't care for baseball. I didn't, you know, Paul Simon wasn't my hero. But now, like, you know, I've been indoctrinated watching baseball and fucking low Paul Simon. But I remember being on that bleachers tour and just been a bit like not, not feeling myself, but just like it was like a real culture shock for me, just been a bit like, right, well, okay, need to figure this one out. It's not as, not as free-flowing as other things have been, you know? Yeah. And I feel like I, that's why I owe so much to touring, you know, whether I do it the rest of my life, I'm not sure, but like, I am so thankful that my just world view was expanded from what it was. It wasn't, it's not this like closed-minded thing where everyone I, you know, spoke to and was friends with, looked and talked and believed in it, acted exactly like the same as me, because that's not reality. It's not the world that's not, you know, what it's about either. And so I wouldn't go back and change a single thing. And I feel like there's people in my life that may look at me now and that I used to associate myself with and are like, oh man, like, you know, Trevor's just, you know, surrounded himself with a different type of people. He's not, he's not on the path that he was on. And I'm like, in my head, I'm like, oh, thank God, I'm not on that path. Or like, hmm, I'm so grateful and so thankful for the experiences I've had and the people I've met and the people that are in my life now that I never would have given a chance back in the day. Yeah. And yeah. Hell yeah. So what does, just to kind of wrap this up, what does your, what are your goals? What do they look like now? You know, obviously you have seemingly another year left with, you know, turned start doing this, right? And whatever. But like, you know, you touched on it just then. Do you see yourself touring forever? Do you want to settle down in LA? Like, do you know what does, what does the future like for, for Trevor? Yeah, I think, I think touring is maybe something that may always, may always be a part of my life in a way or a part of the identity of the things I like to create. Just documenting, like an experience like that in general, is that something I really enjoy? I think I'm looking for, and for a long time, just touring was the goal. Like I said, like in college, I was like, let me wrap this up a year early so I can get on the road. And then after that happened, you know, I, my creative desires started to expand as well. And I was like, okay, I love this. But what else is out there? What else do I like to do? What else do I want to try? So I've been given some more opportunities in, in this year to direct some things, direct some music videos. Would love to continue to go down the directing path. We'll see if I end up in the, in the narrative world. But for now, it just sounds so intimidating. So I'm just going to stick to like music videos and brand work and things like that. So on the photoside, you know, I've grown an interest for more editorial work, something that's not moving around and jumping and kicking and breaking my flash, you know, like something a subject that sits still is actually like pretty nice. So exploring like the creative ideas I have like on something that isn't moving around, you know, and. Like for a long time, I was really envious of my friends who grew up their whole life wanting to be a director. And if all they've done is like direct and want to direct and are on the path of directing. Or are only a photographer and have only been doing photography and are so successful in just photography now or whatever. I feel like I've for a long time kind of looked at my career as something just like has a jack of all trades master of none. I, I'm actually really cool with just like, let me just, let me just tell whatever story or create, create, whatever thing I want to make with whatever medium I'm given. If I get an opportunity to direct an Applebee commercial like let me rock it out. And then also if like I get asked by Vogue to go to Oscar Isaacs house and like shoot some portraits of him for a magazine like let me hit that too. Not boxing myself into like one career path per se even though that sounds nice. Yeah, that answers your question. Yeah, totally man. I mean more power to you, man. You kind of you possess every thing that you need to kind of succeed your extremely kind of earnest and kind and really hard working and you love baseball. So you know, it's the perfect. It's the perfect tree. Perfect tree of a man. Thank you, brother. Well, thank you so much for joining and chatting kind of so easily about everything. I really appreciate you man. Everybody is listening, check out Trevor's stuff. It will be predominantly with turn start this year, but I'm sure you'll be doing lots of other things, hopefully an Applebee's for commercial. I'm out in LA soon. I'll be. It'll be nice to see. Please. Yeah, yeah. All right, brother. All right, thanks everybody. And we will be back very, very soon.